Then again, railpictures.net tends to have creative reasons for photo rejections.
I gave up contributing to them awhile back.....because I sent the very same photo that someone else did (two days AFTER mine....theirs got posted, mine didn't. But they were one of the cronies.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Who appointed this dick?
Can anyone get rid of him?
Lose the curse words.
Or at least be consistent. The second obscenity diametrically contradicted the first.
: )
Mark
What exactly did he do?
-Chris
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19122-2004Jun30.html
Now I can see Mdlbigcat's point.
-Chris
This may sound too crazy, but WMATA could invest in some single-unit cars for situations like this, or maybe an A-B-A 3 car sets.
1. He has a great sense of musical taste.
2. He wears red lipstick!
3. He takes the F train.
I had to stick on #3 in order to make this post compliant with decorum. :)
No way. Buffalo Bob was OK; this guy's a dork.
That's way too far.
That could describe all of us!!!
You can't get rid of him as long as he has the governor's support.
Michael
Washington, DC
The G1 was a real waste of resources and did not need to be kept. The N11, N13, and SmartMover are cross river options that should have been retained. The B11 had potential to work out but it was set up to fail, unfortunately. The N7's story is well known and the route had been recieving only state funding for the past few years. WMATA cut funding for the route back in 2001 IIRC. I don't know much about the C18. Virginia's refusal to assist in funding the N11, N13, and SmartMover and DC's refusal to assist in funding the B11 contributed to the demise of those routes.
Uhh, that's interesting. I didn't know gonads and sexual parts of the human anatomy ran railroads. :-)
Or ruined them, for that matter... I knew they've brought many a railroad bathroom to grief (well, the male ones anyway).
: )
Your disapproval of him is uncalled for. While he may have Republican tendencies, I don't think anyone can really do some things differently considering the current budget situation.
til next time
wayne
Does anyone have pictures of 7773? This site needs one. :)
"Which redbird was your favorite,mine's is the R33ML"
Joe I don't believe that we've ever met on any of the fantrips but is obvious that you are gentleman who appreciates a work of art when he sees it. I don't need to name my favorite. I just have to sign my name.
Larry, RedbirdR33
2nd Place Favorite: BluebirdR33 or R-33WF
til next time
til next time
Difference: I have *respect* for pro wrestlers. Hey, anyone who voluntarily gets thrown off a 15 foot high platform for the entertainment of others, fake storylines or not, has some mighty cojones in my book.
And we've already seen that wrestlers can be politicians - has the reverse happened yet?
While the security costs are daunting, and the hassle to the average commuting Joe yet to be seen (they say rush hour delays will be minimized -- we'll all believe that when we see it) one can't argue that the revenue to the city also adds up fast.
One quick fact I was able to find. The RNC has reserved 18,000 hotel rooms in Manhattan. If you figure on $200 per room and an average 5 night stay per room, that's $18 million in hotel revenue. At 13+% hotel tax and 8+% sales tax, that's also about $4 million in sales tax revenue -- for lodging alone. Factor in meals, transportation and other tourist spending and the number gets bigger.
I suspect that revenue to the city and costs are probably closer to being equal than they are to being a huge money loser for the city. Tourism-related businesses make out like bandits.
CG
Unfortunately, even foot access to some areas is going to be restricted.
One quick fact I was able to find. The RNC has reserved 18,000 hotel rooms in Manhattan. If you figure on $200 per room and an average 5 night stay per room, that's $18 million in hotel revenue. At 13+% hotel tax and 8+% sales tax, that's also about $4 million in sales tax revenue -- for lodging alone. Factor in meals, transportation and other tourist spending and the number gets bigger.
You have to take into account the number of rooms that would be occupied by other people during the same time period were the RNC not being held. From what I understand, NYC hotels are running around 75% occupancy; using that figure, the RNC is adding about 4,500 room occupancies.
You're not analyzing the problem correctly. NYC has 70,000 hotel rooms. If 25% of them are vacant on a given night, then there are 17,500 empty rooms. So the 18,000 rooms the RNC books represent 17,500 additional hotel registrations and 500 that would have been booked by someone else, anyway.
In reality, the 500 number is slightly higher (and the 17,500 somewhat lower) since some of the rooms in the 70,000 will probably go unbooked anyway.
CG
New York could have minimized disruption by holding the RNC at the Javits Center rather than MSG. Javits' lack of subway service would not be a major deal because most delegates will be transported in a fleet of chartered buses.
I have a folding bike.
I don't live in Boston.
The Bottom Line:
It doesn't matter to me.
Good Luck NYC in August:)
Gerry
At Atlantic Ave. I was waiting for the Q when a CTA (Cleaner) was already ticked off when a N/B Q train left the station. She mentioned " where is the train." and I knew she was waiting for the B train. I told her the B was not running and advised here to go upstairs for the D. There was an off-duty T/O who noted that "she should've know what times the trains were running." Sure I could've said that but I didn't. I told her to use a map and look at the service grid at the lower right side, below Coney Island.
But that sure was a tad funny (and unusual), an NYCT employee that didn't know how the B line operates.
After all, cleaners are supposed to provide accurate travel directions to customers that they interact with during the performance of their duties. Since it was 10:30 PM and the map said the B operates until 9 PM, then it should be clear to the NYCT employee that she should not be waiting for the B train at that time of the evening.
I can't think of any other industry that would require it's cleaning staff to have anything more than a vague understanding of its operations. Most wouldn't require any understanding whatsoever -- nor would any be expected by their customers.
Random NYCT employees are not expected to memorize subway schedules.
til next time
I've seen R44s with "LONG ISLAND RR"
R44=LIRR
R46=Metro-North
til next time
It's part of the contingency plan for when the M-7s break down en masse and everything else is gone.
Zach
D to Brighton Beach!
All I said was that the Side Signs in R-44 and R-46 cars can display Metro-North and Long Island RR as destinations..
Suppose NY Penn Station was shut down for any extended period of time. NYCTA could operate specials to Jamaica from 34th and 8th with the destination sign "Long Island Railroad" via the Queens Blvd Express tracks or something. The trains would stay on the NYCTA, but they'd be operated in lieu of LIRR service between Jamaica and NYP. Having "LIRR" on the destination sign and some P/R folks out there to direct traffic might reduce confusion among Commuters who needed to get to Jamaica to get home.
Zach
D to Brighton Beach!
-Broadway Buffer
Have a good Fourth
-Tom
They could probably function, but for how long? I think a variable dropping resistor (resistance) inserted somewhere in the mains would keep the electric field from building up too much current flow. (At least that work for me when I was designing power supplies, for my CW tranmitter, when I was a kid) :)
-Broadway Buffer
Have a good Fourth
The higher voltage on the NYC damaged the subway cars' motors.
Your pal,
Fred
If it is, how does someone get into London?
I have a friend leaving this afternoon, Wednesday, July 1, for London.
Any information will be appreciated.
Thank you.
The tube strike did happen (6.30 p.m. Tuesday-6.30 p.m. Wednesday).
"If it is, how does someone get into London?"
Well, that depended where you were coming from! National rail was running, so most people were o.k. as far as their central London main line terminus. From Heathrow Airport, the Piccadilly Line wasn't running but the (expensive) Heathrow Express would have got you as far as Paddington. The other airports aren't served by the tube, so their various rail options would have been working normally.
Once in central London, you would have had problems. Extra buses were running, and the Docklands Light Rail and national rail services would have helped a bit in certain places.
The worst-ff commuters would have been those from areas where there are no national rail services near by - with the Woodford-Epping area probably worst hit.
My only complaint is that on the projects page they mentionthe Schuykill Valley Metro, but not the Roosevlet Boulevard subway project.
Mark
Sean@Temple
P.S. So far i do enjoy the new site. It no longer looks vintage 1998
Mark
Mark
Of course, some of the less needed addresses (i.e. anything Market-Frankford or Broad Street Line (except maybe the Ridge Spur)) are available as well... and slightly wrong. Fern Rock Transportation Center is NOT 5900 North Broad Street, nor is the Regional Rail half of it WEST of 10th Street. Just plain 10th & Nedro would do fine.
BTW, what's with the weekday usage percent at the RRD stations, and why no weekend usage percent? And doesn't Thorndale have 450 spaces?
#3 West End Jeff
R62s from Corona are Major Serviced at CIY.
In any event ALL trains entering or leaving the Flushing Lion from the rest of the system must do so via the BMT Lion.
Because the trippers on the IRT and the BMT are on different sides, a PILOT car with dual trippers must be used on these transfers.
So this is just a normal C-Division movement.
Elias
A link in the text, "bumpy domes," leads to an Accessibility page, where text related to Bumpy Domes reads as follows:
"Bumpy domes along the platform at all key stations alert customers that the edge is near, and flashing lights indicate arriving trains. Large, electronic signs on each platform announce train arrivals and delays. (See stations with bumpy domes)."
What exactly do these so-called "bumpy domes" look like? Are they similar in appearance to the ADA tactile warning strips along many platform edges in the NY subway?
The WMATA ones can be viewed in this photo. Look between the regular red tiles and the granite edge.
-Chris
I have every recording on the L except for "This is Canarsie-Rockaway Parkway."
I also have some from the 2, 4, 5 and 6 (including "This is a Bronx-bound 6 train, the next stop is Fulton Street" from when a GO sent 6 trains to Brooklyn.)
If you want some of the recordings, just say so!
-RJM
-Chris
Note: These are from the R143 trainset with the updated recordings (i.e. "The next and last stop is 8th Avenue)
-RJM
My email is SINY_R143@aol.com.
Thanks.
-Chris
Sorry!
-Chris
I figured they never did since their interior displays STILL say:
"_______ NEXT"
Given the efficiency of substation transformers (high), and the efficiency of rectifiers (nearly 100%), etc etc etc, there's probbably little difference between the two these days. Of course, that assumes DC third rail Vs 60hz overhead AC. Vs 25hz overhead, third rail wins hands down because of the losses converting 60hz AC to 25hz AC (Substantial).
If you want to be pendantic, leakage currents on third rail are probbably a lot higher than overhead.
R-32.
R-32.
R-32.
Boston's Blue Line uses both, third rail west of Maverick, overhead east of Airport and both in between those points. The overhead avoids icing problems on the outdoor section which is quite exposed to the elements, while the third rail is necessary in the tunnel due to clearance problems.
The Red Line to Quincy is all third rail, with heaters approximately every 50' to help prevent icing.
Gerry
Matt
If you're running enough trains, the 3rd Rail should remain clear. If you apply similar wintry conditions to catenary, it will sag and eventually fall down. If the 3rd Rail's iced up, you can still run diesels. If the catenary's down, your whole railroad's screwed.
Not so pedantic, since this is the chief reason there is no new third rail installation nowadays, save on limited-clearance railroads (such as subways).
BTW: Where does the AirTrain get its power?
Me thinks you knead a knew lion!
The politicians that run the PANYNJ. Not from the two-seat ride it necessitates . . .
Not to mention, being elevated means less chance of ground leak & loss.
Depends ,of course, on the system of electrification used.
Some Overhead was used on 600v DC.
Trolleys and LRVs can get away with using overhead 3rd rail and not getting socked with substations every 2400 feet because they operate at lower amperages. A trolley might only take 800-1000 amps off the wire, while a subway train sucks 1300-some amps. Since you have V=IR, where V is voltage in Volts, I is current in Amps, and R is resistance in Ohms, you can lessen the effects of voltage drop on the system. 3rd rail overcomes this by decreasing the resistance by making the cross sectional area of the 3rd rail very large. Trolley overhead overcomes this by lowering the amps, due to their lower power needs. And AC Catenary systems overcome this by raising the voltage so high that barely any amps are needed to provide the same power that the 3rd rail provides at 1300amps.
The 3rd rail / catenary debate has been going on since the earliest days of electrification, and it never seems to end.
Most high speed rail uses overhead high voltage ac service. Because you are using long lines of high voltage ac, you get, in addition to resistance, a good deal of self-inductive impedance and/or capacitative loading (with the ground as the opposite plate to the wire).
Has anyone in this day of solid-state thought of high voltage dc on an overhead system?
"Has anyone in this day of solid-state thought of high voltage dc on an overhead system?"
Belgium uses either 1500 or 3000 vdc. ( I forget which Belgium uses - whichever they do use, some parts of France uses the other ). Some parts of France use [I believe] 3000 vdc.. The Eurostar, when being designed had to be compatible with both as well as the mainstream 25 kvAC., as well as British third rail.
R-32.
Let's leave that statement alone for a minute and get to this:
What more practical decision than to make the power source the same type as the traction from square one - skipping the conversion step.
You need to stop thinking that, because it's wrong, and when you think that and say it aloud, you'll make other people think it too. What we really need is for this myth to die. Now, repeat after me:
AC or DC power transmission has nothing to do with AC or DC traction.
If you have AC power, you don't put it directly into an AC motor. An AC motor that operates at a single frequency (25, 50, or 60Hz) is useless for the purposes of a traction motor. Remember that AC motors are speed-controlled by varying the frequency. You still need an inverter to drive the motor, and you can do that just about equally well with an AC source as a DC source.
It IS a little bit easier to use DC motors with DC power if the supply voltage is correct, because you can connect the motors directly to the power source without the aid of any transformers or on-board rectification. However, even if you're married to DC traction (as the world was until AC speed control became practical,) the discussion doesn't end there. You still need to weigh the costs and benefits of many large lower-voltage DC substations against few large higher-voltage substations and what amounts to tiny substations on each train.
R-32.
By putting this prospect, Eurostar is just utterly amazing at converting different electical system.
"By putting this prospect, Eurostar is just utterly amazing at converting different electical system."
Amen to that brother!!
R-32.
The M-2's and such are cool, of course.....but only similar is right. The Eurostars' trainsets are much more sophisticated. You should pick up the book on Channel Tunnel trains. The power cars use GTO (gate turn-off) thyristors. Metro North, and such only deal with two voltages, and only one catenary system - Eurostar takes care of four voltages.
Besides, voltage is just one aspect of their sophistication. The cars are smaller than the TGV it takes after; owing to the tighter curves on the British lines. Two different platform heights: French platforms are lower. Plus, whereas the TGV has a carrier cable along the roofs of the cars - allowing only one pantograph to be needed for the propulsion of the whole 10 car trainset; the Channel Tunnel committee deemed this unsafe. They decided to prevent electrical transmission between cars. Therefore, on the Eurostars, there are power collector cars mid-train - pantographs and all. I don't know if they're actually motored, though. Then, of course, the Eurostars are not articulated.
R-32.
No. Only the two end power cars have collectors. One panto for AC, another for DC and third rail pickup shoes.
Then, of course, the Eurostars are not articulated.
All Eurostar half-train sets are articulated except for the power cars. The connection between the two half-train sets is of course, not articulated. The standard length Eurostar set look like this.
Power car--9 articulated trailers--9 articulated trailers--Power car
That sounds alarmingly easy to gap.
It's not a problem restricted to Eurostars. If they indeed have only one set of 3rd Rail shoes, incidents like this extremely silly one can unfortunately happen. (In the case mentioned, I don't know why they didn't get the jumper leads out.)
BTW, that incident sounds really silly... Another Thomas the Tank Engine kind of episode. e.g. James leaves without his driver, Thomas and his driver leaves Knapford without his coaches, etc...
I do believe that the first - adjacent to the power car - truck of the nine car set is powered. That is, the third truck in the train (as well as the last truck before the power car) is powered - just like the TGV.
R-32.
That is correct. The Eurostar set have six powered trucks per train. Two on each of the two power cars, plus the two adjacent trucks.
just like the TGV.
Only partially correct. The original Paris-Lyon TGV sets had the same arrangement of six powered trucks. All subsequent TGV designs have only had four powered trucks, under the power cars; more modern technology or experience made six trucks unnecessary.
Of course the Eurostar sets are significantly longer and heavier than any of the TGV sets, hence the need to revert to the six powered trucks approach.
Matt
Overhead allows higher speeds.
Matt
There are a coulpe of High Voltage DC transmission lines out here.
And there ARE NO CYCLES to keep in sync! That's why it is DC!
Elias
Matt
Do they need to be synchronized between plants or just within the plant? For instance, (since I am in Ohio) if Davis-Besse (FirstEnergy Nuke Plant) is supplying DC power (which I believe they are not) to Cleveland along with another DC plant, do the two plants need to be synchronized to each other (as in AC) or is it just that each generator in one plant needs to be synchronized with the others in the same plant? Or do modern transmission systems rectify the AC, in which case it should be clean?
TIA
Matt
With AC generation, it's downright critical. With DC plants, a bit of slop isn't so bad as long as you have speed and pretty close to the right "angle" ... as to "modern systems" you can BET it's a WHOLE lot cheaper to rectify commercial power than to fool around with big maintenance intensive rotating metal. Heh.
And you're MOST welcome - isn't all that often that subtalk turns to things I'm knowledgeable on nowadays - other than politics. :)
I *was* wondering a bit about that even as I posted.
Obviously a battery has no cycles, and that *is* the standard for DC, I guess, but on DC rectified from AC, I still got chatter on some motors or relays on my layout.
So the pulse is all + or - depending upon which wire you are holding and not + and - every 60 seconds all on the one wire, eh? Well that makes sense. But you loose the line losses (yes?) due to historisis(?) (or whatever) as compaired to AC.
We have two DC lions that cross ND easy to spot (two wires not three).
Elias
Let's say you've got the proverbial "Enron stack" ... like a TELCO central office ... batteries out the wazoo, and everybody's got a happy loop *PLUS* DT ("dialtone") ... HAPPY DAYS indeed! :)
EVERY battery (that's worth electrically recycling "on line") is BEST served by having DIODES between it and the load (prevents a phenomenon known as "reversing the cell") ... and a SEPARATE diode-controlled path from the "trickle-charger" ... when folks learn ELECTRONICS in training, it's the usual, tired old "Ohm's law" which applies ONLY to DC where if you have a battery that's 1.0 volts [hint: most "batteries provide between 1.20 volts (NI-CD) and 2.4 (Lead_acid) volts]) and a resistance of 1.0 OHMS, 1.0 AMPS will flow through the resistance by math. The DIODES allow current to flow from the battery to the load. At the same time, the REVERSE bias from the presence of the diodes prevents REVERSE current flow wherein one "weak" battery may suck current from the good batteries. IN the realm of DC, "rectifiers" ensure that current flows ONE way, but not BACK.
DC is the FIRST thing you learn in electronics, because it's as simple as Edison. And EDISON was *so* simple (and unworthy of the rhetoric, unlike TESLA, who WON the "AC power argument" as all might have noticed at their power outlets) Heh. But once you grasp the concepts of RESISTANCE, along comes IMPEDANCE, and you're suddenly in the world of "EDISON was a simplistic MORON who makes DUBYA look like a frigging GENIUS!" ... welcome to *NIKOLAI TESLA* and *AC!!!* Heh. ("You AMERICANS are so weak, like your coffee." - (Angry Beavers cartoon series) ...
Bottom line though - hook up multiple batteries with "isolation diodes" and all's happy ... as long as you don't have "reverse flows," all is well and good. Any "voltage bounces" you're experiencing is the result of "voltage droop" owing to too high a resistance for wiring in the "problem area" ... too much demand, not enough electrons. DC is EASY, AC is complex. Ask ANY engineer what they'd rather predict and design for, "AC or DC" and TELL me how many wanna phuck with Tesla. :)
On DC "Rowr! NICE kitty!" power lions, what ONLY matters is that DC power off rotating metal *HAS* commutators ... to put it in terms of AC that most folks know, let's assume we have a generator with "2 commutators" (worst POSSIBLE design) ... you get the SAME equivalent waveform of a simple rectifier withough filtering ... 60 Hz AC in, you get 120 Hz DC out. For the 60 cycle "round" all you get at the output is a sine wave that goes from 0 volts to 120 and then back. SECOND half cycle, you get ooo-gots. 70.7 volts output from 110 *averaged* ... in reality, you're getting 0 voltes ramping up to a peak of 110 for a "half of the "cycle." (that's what cycles, kilocycles, megacycles was all abnout in ancient electronics school) Make that a FULL-WAVE or "bridge rectifier," NOW you've got 141.4 volts of 120 HZ superimposed AC, but it ain't CLEAN like a battery. That's where "filtering" comes into play, but let's skip that esoteric. :)
Six of one, half dozen of the other in goverspeak. :)
OK ... so down to YOUR thingy there ... "Hysteresis" as you are asking is a PURELY Tesla matter ... as a result of the constant reversals of current in AC, there are stray currents in metal called "hysteresis" .... it's not so much about the electrons though as it is about the MAGNETIC properties of metals ... how when exposed to a FLUX, some metals will go from a +3 to a spontaneous -3 without hittin zero or passing zero as far as the electrical properties go. Hysteresis is sorta (best EASILY explained as a "reluctance" or a refusal to hit a "zero state" and thus pass THROUGH zero to a negative quickly) without a "fight" or giving up of energy.
NOW ... as to DC power lines, DC is "battery" ... it's QUITE "steady state" as basic electronics math provides (humankind is *SO* arrogant as to accept that math "rulez" - sometimes it's GOD and whoops! to the math) ... HOWEVER, in power distribution, EVERY DC generator has "segments" between, and separating the coils and the load. The MORE of these "commutaions" you have, the closer to DC output you get. But AS the coils swing PAST the magnets, there's "rises and falls" of "peak voltage" ... when DC generator "poles" are in sync, the trnasitions are relatively minor ... a SLIGHT AC voltage superimposed ont he more "flat" DC voltage ... the more generators DEVIATE from "perfect," the more "trash" is generated ...
ANYBODY HERE ever hear the subway train PA come on with a *WHINE* coming out of the speakers? Hello ... DIS-harmony in the generation. A *pure* DC souce doesn't have "AC whine" superimposed. Sounds like a telephone rather than ... "Twwwwweeeeeeeeeee ..." TA third rail is "dirty" owing to the power sources ... then again, the NOISE on the third rail is what "new tech cars" DETECT if they're going to do "regenerative braking" ... so that noise (and bumps and groans) is *so* expected that it was DESIGNED FOR!)
And therein lies the SLAP to Nikola Tesla. :)
Call it magic. Heh.
Speaking for the Council of Felids, I do not want to hear anything more about saggy cats!
Ice and Snow will weigh a wire down.
Cold will NOT cause the wire to sag, HEAT will do that.
Haven't you ever seen a cat in heat! Sparks will Fly!
In North Dakota the Wind and the Ice are the biggies for power lion problems. Outages fo a few seconds to a few days may ensue.
The Broadway Lion!
R-32.
Frequently locomotives will run with both pans up for icy wires.
The first pan knocks the ice down, and the second one collects the power.
Elias
R-32.
Well it isn't all that hard because Britain has been using it for years - since the early 20th century, that is. Those lines Southeast of London (I believe) are apparently known to go about 100 MPH (160 KPH). That's all not to mention our own Long Island Rail Road which is capable of 100 or 120 MPH - depending on car type (M-3 vs. M-1) - but doesn't put it into practice because, I hear, the current track can't take it. So no, that is not entirely true. Any 'precision' needed is just a necessary evil and that's that.
"Besides, you can't use 3d rail on opened surface ways because of safety requirements. For example, all the surface metro ways with 3d rail I saw in Moscow had high concrete fences to prevent extraneous people's trespassing."
Please try to remember, there is more than just Moscow. You can run third rail on the surface, as it is done anywhere there is third rail - anywhere on earth, that is. They do that in NY without a problem. Plus, unless London or England has changed recently, you can walk right up on those tracks and get zapped if you desire. Remember, those third rails are bare open - like NY many years ago.
A reminder that Europe has no mercy on stupidity.
Finally, there are plenty of catenary metros. Most of the newer metros use catenary. This includes Barcelona, Rome, Sao Paolo, Berlin, as well as other cities in Germany and Europe.
R-32.
Thanks, I will transfer your information to that guy who told about
100 km/h limit. It's interesting, what he will say?
>Plus, unless London or England has changed recently, you can walk >right up on those tracks and get zapped if you desire. Remember, >those third rails are bare open - like NY many years ago.
>A reminder that Europe has no mercy on stupidity.
Looks too weird in the times when any lousy pencil must have the
Certificate of Safety, and any kid having a conversation with unfamiliar man is considered as a victim of the crime. We have the saying: "Moscow does not believe in tears". Probably, Europe does believe it even less. :)
Not often, and not in many places. The speed limitations of third rail were one of the reasons why 25 kv AC overhead line electrification was adopted in the 1960s as the standard for main line electrification in the UK.
"Plus, unless London or England has changed recently, you can walk right up on those tracks and get zapped if you desire. Remember, those third rails are bare open - like NY many years ago."
In the UK, railway lines are fenced - anyone walking on the tracks is trespassing and knows that they are. However, the litigious blame culture is spreading to the UK, so although I don't know of any cases of trespassers suing the railways, it'll come, no doubt.
Of course, if someone wants to commit suicide on a railway, they don't need a third rail for it. Recently, a married couple in intractable financial difficulties jumped together in front of a train from a station platform on the East Coast Main Line, which is of course 25 kv AC overhead electrified. A train going at 100+ mph is going to kill you whatever traction it might be using.
The fact remains that 3rd Rail will allow 100mph easily. The reason that many Southern lines (mainly the SE, Chatham, and Brighton ones) are so slow is that the geometry is particularly inept. There also happen to be poorly laid out lines North of the River.
Take for example the horrible curves through Mitcham Junction. A comparably bad situation existed at Newton-le-Wilows on the LNWR. The LNWR built a line to by-pass the horrid curvy section with junctions to perpendicular lines. The LBSCR didn't. The LBSCR could well be criticised for that, but their electrification system is not to blame.
In fact, I'd take a bet on 3rd Rail working at 110mph. I can only think of two or three places in the UK where the speed limit's any higher, so realistically the issue's more about compatibility than speed.
This is where your fellow countryman in the successive thread has it right, and you - I'm afraid - have it wrong. Yes, often, and there are plenty of places here, and - apparently - in your country too. However a third rail is the last thing that hinders speed. Here, the Long Island Rail Road goes at least 80 - with the third rail. The track is the only thing limiting that speed, not the third rail. For that matter, the LIRR has cars capable of 120!
A train going at 100+ mph is going to kill you whatever traction it might be using.
Let us refocus upon the point of this discussion, shall we? Right; our friend 'Anton_75' remarked that third rail is the reason that much third rail metro trackage is not outside - which I quickly debunked. As such, my response pertaining to getting zapped on the tracks - if one so desires - was as a function of the electrified trackage; not the purely the railway itself. This was to say metros weren't afraid to bring tracks to the surface simply because there's juice and people might get zapped. Big deal, they can jump in front of a train; for that matter, I could walk out into the middle of an interstate (motorway) in front of a lorry - to the same end. That is not the point, it is about the electrification in this discussion.
In the UK, railway lines are fenced - anyone walking on the tracks is trespassing and knows that they are. However, the litigious blame culture is spreading to the UK, so although I don't know of any cases of trespassers suing the railways, it'll come, no doubt.
Well then.... they have changed recently.
R-32.
Well then.... they have changed recently.
The fences are there in the terms of the acts of Parliament which set up each individual line. There are of course still sections which have never been fenced.
Sure you COULD do maybe 150 with a 3rd rail powered train with substations at a .75 mile pitch and the thing cranked up to 1000vdc. But, by the same token, catenary powered trains have done 321mph with no modifications to the electric supply system other than some pantograph aerodynamic work, and do 186mph in regular service all over continental Europe and Japan.
No no.... it's the M-3's that are capable of 120... not the M-1's. The M-1's can only reach 100. The M-3's look the same, but are mechanically very different from the M-1's. The LIRR uses 650 vdc.
I respect the high speed of catenary; I think it's wonderful. I'm just saying that third rail is capable of speed.
I am very aware of the French TGV-A speed record of 500 KPH or 320 MPH. Do be aware that that train was 'souped up' in the order of larger diameter wheels and fewer cars ( and I think something else). The Japanese have gotten up to 320 MPH I've heard (that's what I've heard). Alot of those 'speed' records are trains souped up in some way. They usually make a run with no passengers, fewer cars, or more powerful motors etc. The only real speed record I've heard of happened recently on the new line from the Channel Tunnel to London with the Eurostar: 202 MPH!
R-32.
You mean used. It was upgraded to 750v around the same time as the M1 debuted.
that train was 'souped up' in the order of larger diameter wheels and fewer cars ( and I think something else).
IIRC, higher voltage and downhill tracks. BTW, the early tests and speed record (331kph) by the SNCF in the 50s were done on 1.5kvDC overhead lines upped to 1.9kv and that record wasn't beaten for a real long time.
Okay, thanks for the correction; although I think it's more like when the M-3's debuted. This is because I very surely seem to remember various signs and warnings etc. saying '650 volts D.C.' (that's pertaining to the trackage and traction), and that was in the '80's. The M-1's came in the '70's.
That's what makes the Eurostar's record more legitimate. That was a train full of passengers and no 'soup ups' no voltage hop-ups, no downhill trackage (necessarily), and yet it achieved 202 MPH.
R-32.
The R44s drew 650V DC from LIRR's third rail, a power supply system inherited from the Pennsylvania Railroad. The introduction of the Budd Company's high-performance M1 commuter MUs, beginning in 1968, mandated an upgrade of third-rail power to 750V DC in order to exploit the M1's capabilities. This work was carried out during 1971 and 1972, and was not quite finished when the R44s made their record-breaking runs.
Never underestimate the info on our beloved site.
:-)
It *was* one of the reasons given for the choice at the time. Whether it is true now - technology having moved one - I don't know. All *really* high-speed lines, such as the French and Japanese systems, do use overhead catenary. There were other reasons, of course, such as the need for fewer substations along long rural sections of line.
The 442s (5-WES) aren't alone. The 375s, 377s, the 424 prototype unit, the 444s (5-DES), 450s (4-DES), 458s (4-JOP), and 460s (8-GAT) all are 100mph capable (as indeed are the 373s, if they count). In addition, the 410/411/412s (4-BEP/4-CEP) 413s (4-CAP), 414s (2-HAP), 418s (2-SAP), 419s (MLV), 421s (4-CIG/4-COP), 422s (ex-420s, 4-BIG), 423s (4-VEP/4-VOP), 427s (4-VEG), 432s (ex-430s, 4-REPs), 438s (ex-491s, 4-TC), 480s (8-VAB), 488s, 489s (1-GLV), 492s (3-TC), and 499s (TLV) are 90mph capable.
I'm not aware of any section on the SE&C on which a train could get up to 100mph (it's better than the Brighton, but still an inferior constituent). The only line they could probably do that on is the CTRL, which is irrelevant as it's OHLE.
Doesn't Berlin use MNCRR style 3rd Rail?
R-32.
R-32.
As for those questioning whether or not the high blood pressure was hereditary in his case...I'm told his father had it, but the doctors are unclear as to whether or not that is the cause of his current condition (hypertension), or if there are other factors behind it.
However, if you post your well-wishes in this thread, it would cheer him up a little.
I've never met him in person yet but he is a funny guy to talk to. I'm hoping he will have a full recovery.
Chuck Greene
Today the doctors found a mass in dante's lower abdomen that will most likely require surgery. He has been asymptomatic all this time and has not had any indications that this was present in his system. Had he not come in for his pressure being high we would not have known anything was wrong.
They still are not completely sure if the mass itself is causing his pressure to be elevated..They may not know until after surgery is done. They are working to stabilize it but at this point it is still very high.
For the record I will be printing out the well wishes that dante has been getting from the board and taking them to him for him to read. I thank everyone here in advance for their encouraging words and support.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Get well and best wishes.
Bob
Chuck Greene
I hope you get well soon. Sorry to hear you're not well now.
I hope the mass that was found is not cancerous.
Koi
Since you're going to be bringing this along to our buddy, Unca Selkirk's praying for ya and you STILL owe me some face time on an arnine, buddy! :)
Regards,
Jimmy
Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Jeremy aka JPC
I can't even begin to say how much I appreciate all the prayers and well-wishes from the people here (also I recall from the posts that my mother printed out that there was another thread somewhere, but I couldn't find it...) as well as the visits from SciGuy, Flatbush, mr brian and Newkirk Plaza David. I sure miss this place, and I also miss the subway...I haven't seen the subway in over a month, except in some really wierd dreams including one where CI and Jamaica switched equipment, and another where there was a GO that the J/M were somehow replacing the A/C/F between Brooklyn & Manhattan.
I can't believe all the stuff I missed...the four BU MOD trips, the replacing of the school cars at CI & PS 248 with the R110Bs, the shutdown of Times Square, and a whole bunch of DUHs from FOX and the NY Post.
I don't know how much longer they'll let me stay on this computer (remember, I'm still in the ICU), but hopefully by this time tomorrow (or Friday) I'll be back to posting regularly again.
Again, thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
Hobbyists or Terrorists? Railfans Find it Hard to Pursue Passion in Post-September 11 World
Commuter Weekly, June 29, 2004
Some people like tinkering with old cars. Others love collecting stamps and coins or building model airplanes. Bird watchers, on the other hand, love watching and “collecting” bird species. Then, there are railfans-also known as train spotters, foamers (as in, “foaming at the mouth” when they see a train) and railbuffs. No matter what you call them, there are an estimated 175,000 railfans in the U.S., almost all of whom are men, and they all share one common passion: trains. Clubs, Web sites and even vacation excursions all serve to feed their passion for trains.
According to Rob Buckman, a railfan and owner of 3RI, a Web site dedicated to railroad images, the casual observer might not notice that trains are all that different. You’ve seen one train … you've seen them all, right? But, stresses Buckman, “Rarely will two trains be exactly alike. The engines pulling that train blocking the crossing and made you late for work? They might have been GP38-2s, an engine that is quickly fading from the scene like the steam engines of years gone by. Who cares? It is the same type of person who cares and knows about the old muscle cars, like an Olds Cutlass 442 or Barracuda.”
For many years, railfans were largely left alone, allowed to document their train sightings with cameras (most railfans are photographers, documenting trains through their lenses), and sometimes documenting engine paint schemes, engine numbers, number of cars, and train frequency in well-worn notebooks. But then came September 11, and, much later, train bombings in Madrid, Spain. Suddenly, an innocent pastime became viewed as maybe something a bit more sinister. Could that man with a camera really be a terrorist plotting out the best way to derail or bomb a train, or is he merely a railfan pursuing a hobby?
“Anyone seen taking photographs is going to be questioned,” said Richard Maloney, a spokesman for SEPTA, Philadelphia’s public transit authority, in a recent Time magazine about railfans. “The wide-open spaces and the freedom we have enjoyed to meander almost anywhere is gone.”
It’s a sentiment shared by John Almeida, profiled in the Time magazine article, who chases train every day during lunch hour. He sets up four video cameras on tripods beside the tracks and waits, listening to his scanner. Over the past 15 years, he has shot hundreds of hours of video and tens of thousands of pictures. And since September 11, he has been mistaken for a terrorist about once a month and has been followed by an Amtrak helicopter, questioned by police and rail workers and described to a 911 dispatch as a "suspicious Middle Eastern male." (Although Almeida is of Irish Catholic descent.)
But regardless of how you feel about the situation-whether you think that railfans should be left to pursue their hobby or whether you think that railfans should pursue a different hobby in this post-September 11 environment, one thing is clear: no one should ever, ever walk on railroad tracks or enter private rail property without permission. It’s illegal and dangerous, with the consequences sometimes fatal. It will also be viewed by law enforcement as a security risk.
Operation Lifesaver, an organization dedicated to educating the public about railroads and ensuring the public’s safety, began a public outreach program in 1972, in fact, that has helped reduce the number of injuries and fatalities on the tracks by 75 percent. And since it became clear that railfans’ desires were often at odds with the desires of the Department of Homeland Security, Operation Lifesaver reached out to railfans with the Railfan Tips and Security Advisory, developed in cooperation with the U.S. Transportation Security Administration (TSA).
“Nearly 1,000 people die each year because they do not understand railroads,” Operation Lifesaver President Gerri Hall explains. “They underestimate the power of trains and the dangers around the rails. In particular, children learn from the example of their siblings and older friends, based on what they see, not what they hear.”
Operation Lifesaver’s complete Railfan Tips and Security Advisory is available online, but key points of Operation Lifesaver’s Safety Message which apply to everyone-include:
Do not trespass on railroad property or rights-of-way. It is illegal, it can be deadly, and you also may appear to be a serious security risk. Remember, railroad property may extend 200 feet on either side of the tracks.
Do not enter private rail property without permission.
Never walk out on a railroad bridge or trestle.
Stay out of railroad tunnels.
Do not climb on railroad property such as signal bridges, cabinets or other structures.
Never climb on or crawl under railroad cars or equipment.
Obey all highway-rail grade crossing signs and signals.
Of course, both rail enthusiasts and the public can be a big part of the safety/security solution by always cooperating with law enforcement and, any time you see suspicious activities near the tracks, reporting them to local authorities.
By following these guidelines, pedestrians and rail riders can enjoy train travel and help maintain the security of our nation’s transportation system.
In other words - don't take pictures.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Railfan photography isn't covered by the freedom of speech because that mainly protects people's right to criticize the government, as well as talk about stuff. The freedom of press thing is possibly applicable to railfanning, but we aren't really reporting anything. The president is breaking the freedom of press by not allowing certain aspects of the war to be photographed, and also that incident with Anton Scalia a few weeks ago.
So therefore, unfortunately, as much as we dislike it, government can ban railfan photography, for it would be constitutional to do so. Although one can argue that railfanning is their religion, or some silly thing like that, and make a railfanning religion that the government would try to ban, but can't, since that would truly be unconstitutional.
BTW, all of this sucks and I'd like to press the rewind button to the year 2000, and get Gore to do more campaigning in his home state, then rewind to 1998, when the CIA launched cruise missiles at al-Qaeda camps, and change the coordinates so that they strike al-Qaeda HQ, then this whole mess would be avoided...
No it wouldn't. Al-Qaeda is effectively a myth anyway. I'm not saying that there aren't terrorists who call themselves members of Al-Qaeda, but it's not really a hierarchical organization that would collapse with the death of its leader. These people hate America Bin Laden or not.
As a railfan I think a photo ban would be wrong-minded. I enjoy videotaping and photographing my cab rides. On the other hand, the TA's mission statement does refer to SAFE transportation and it's for the agency to determine what is needed to keep the majority of riders (who are not railfans) safe. If they determine that banning photography under narrow circumstances is prudent then it's their judgement.
Photography is not the only aspect to railfanning. Obviously some people consider Skylarking or surfing to be part of railfanning. Other railfans think that exploring tunnels, changing side signs, or tagging or even stealing a train is what railfanning is all about. Common sense dictates that if you can ban tagging or tunnel exploration as unacceptable forms of railfanning, why can't photography be equally subjectively banned. Clearly it can be but equally clearly it hasn't been to this point. If and when it is, we'll still have other ways to enjoy our hobby. Even if it is 'banned', most of us will still be able to enjoy it simply by getting a permit. Try getting a permit to photograph in Rikers Island.
Obviously though, there are some issues that I haven't seen discussed as far as this goes that might be of interest to those planning to address this issue. Obviously, commercial photography "customers" would be able to obtain a permit and credentials. I don't however see any particular interest in granting "hobbyist" permits from what I've read. But even IF the agency will be granting those, there's something folks are missing here ...
State agencies are permitted (nay, ENCOURAGED) to charge a FEE for any paperwork of any kind if paperwork is to be done, even more so if it results in some form of certificate. One of the questions I don't see being raised is what kind of *FEE* will be charged for this transaction, amounting to a "railfan tax" ... will it prohibit inner city kids from pursuing one of the less expensive "hobbies?"
I agree with you that a ban/permit requirement would almost certainly be upheld in the courts.
I would add that as a New Yorker who doesn't take pictures in the subway I think the ban would be wrong-minded. There is no conceivable way that a ban (or permit requirement) would improve security. It would give NYC even more of a bad name than it already has as a bureaucratic place that makes money by giving summonses to innocent tourists.
It would also make MTA management look very foolish, which is also bad for New York. Lots of people will realize that the ban is a way to look like you're doing something about terrorism without actually providing any substance.
Actually doing something to make the subways safe from terrorism without making them unusuable is an incredibly difficult, unglamorous, and unnoticed task. The MTA seems to be propsing an easy route to look effective without necessarily being effective.
Do you know something the rest of us don’t? I’ve seen no indications that permits will actually be available to the general public.
It also introduces an administrative burden on the TA which does not enhance the security of the subways - and will create a budget hole that DHS will not necessarily fill with federal dollars.
Having said that, I should add that there is merit in your previous post. If the TA is sensible, it will minimize the inconvenience to the rail buffs.
Incidentally, rail buffs (not the ones in the minority who trash trains, jump turnstiles or threaten public safety) are good for the TA. They ride frequently, buy MetroCards, encourage other people to ride and even advocate for the TA when hearings come up. The TA should indulge them where possible because they are allies of the agency.
How about the experience of the last two years, when one or more NYCT spokespeople have said that the MTA does require permits for photography but isn't issuing any. Surely that is a suggestion (though by no means a guarantee) of policy to come.
Are you truly 100% confident that the MTA WILL issue permits if the proposal goes through?
“Anyone seen taking photographs is going to be questioned,” said Richard Maloney, a spokesman for SEPTA, Philadelphia’s public transit authority, in a recent Time magazine about railfans. “The wide-open spaces and the freedom we have enjoyed to meander almost anywhere is gone.”
It’s a sentiment shared by John Almeida, profiled in the Time magazine article, who chases train every day during lunch hour.
I certainly DO NOT share those sentiments! No one has taken away our freedoms yet, but they ARE trying very hard. The following just happened yesterday.....
CSX C770 derailed at least a couple of cars while shoving back into the Bucks County Ind Park across from Woodbourne Yard on the Trenton Line. SEPTA was running trains on Track 2 between Wood and Nesh while CSX and SEPTA personnel dealt with the cars. Half of the train was pulled south of the switch and sent back to Woodbourne while about 5-6 cars and one engine were on the BCIP trackage.
Went to Fairless Jct, gave my card to some employees there and asked to take a few pics at a distance, after which an employee who I presume was the foreman yelled "OUT OF HERE!", which I did. Went to the public overpass and got pictures of the cars and dirty looks from the crew on the ground. Then went around to the JC Penney warehouse, gave them my card and asked to take some pictures from inside their gated parking lot and a guy in the office said OK. Got my pics, then found out that guy was not THE GUY. When he approached me (actually honked at me from his car), THE GUY said he was told that CSX had just chased me away from the scene! I explained that I had asked and received permission from someone at the office (how the hell am I supposed to know who in the office is supposed to give out the permission slips), and I left. Then went to the parking lot of the ind park to get some more shots when another guy from CSX approached me in my car and said "Didn't we tell you to get out of here!"
That was it, I almost lost it. I told the guy I wanted his card. He
asked why, and I said I wanted to know how he could tell me to get out of a parking lot THAT IS NOT CSX PROPERTY. He backed off, and at that point I let him have it, logically speaking. I explained everything from why the people in BCIP did not know about the derailment in their back yard (because CSX did not tell anyone), why he and everyone else from CSX think they can do and say anything they want anywhere they want, why he was concerned with me when I was nowhere near the derailment (he blurted something about security issues and the ubiquitous "9/11" - what the hell that has to do with CSX putting cars on the ground is unfathomable), why there would be "privacy issues" (his words) regarding me taking pictures of the scene that is in public view and concerns the well-being of us all. I also told him about the article in this week's Time Magazine about Homeland Security recruiting truckers to keep an eye on things "suspicious"
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1101040705-658321,00.html
and asked why not enlist us railfans (who on the whole seem much more
enlightened than the gear jockeys in the article). I wish I had recorded the tidal wave of frustration that I unleashed on this guy about the stupidity and arrogance running rampant in our society. In the end, I left and hopefully at least one CSX employee had something to thing about.
I have had it with morons. I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore.
No, it hasn't. You're taking it for no logical reason, Mr. Maloney.
-why are you stopping people taking pictures? is it against the law?
- when your own cops break your own regulations by smoking on MFL station platforms (next time I see it, I'll take a pic of 'em)
- when your own cops cant enforce basic Septa regulations like smoking, littering, 'cracking forties' on the subway.
As an aside, remember just after Sept 11th, we weren't going to change our habits, etc, when that would be 'giving in' to the terrorists? Well, it looks like the terrorists are winning, with a little help from the dept of homelnd securitie, plus our local friendly transit agencies.
Just hold your hand out and demand to see their ID card. Reject it if it is not a photo ID card, and explain to them that they have no RIGHT WHATSOEVER to even suggest that you suspend your freedoms as an American.
Write down his name and information, and then ask him the name of his supervisor, and what department that he works in.
Inform him that you have rights to take pictures, that the Taliban and AlKida did NOT win the war, and that you will report him to his superiors and to the authorities for infringing on your rights.
Now we did have a rail wreck out here in North Dakota, happend less than one mile from my front door, but would you believe nobody in town heard anything. Apparently hoppers full of coal do not make much noise. I guess the coal attenuates the sounds.
Pictures were no problem, even from RR property. I guess with a wreck in town they must have figured that there was no way to hide it anyway.
Elias
ask the FEDS why thy started this stupid crap...or rather ask your greedy ass president and is father about it...
it a damn shame how the powers that be have be allowed to play on the public they way they have been doing lately
all in the name of ''HOMELAND SECURITY''....
makes me ill,I tell you....
Can't wait untill our Creator returns,to make them suffer for this....
You'd think there was a guy there trying to take pictures of the trains...
www.forgotten-ny.com
?
www.forgotten-ny.com
it's the first one
--Mark
Right now you can ride seven different kinds of MU's on Metro-North spanning 40 years of service. I don't think that any other "mainline"
railroad in the country has as many types in service.
On the Harlem and Hudson Lines we have the Pullman-Standard ACMU's from 1962 and 1965. The Budd built M-1A's from 1981-83. The Budd built M-3A's from 1982-84 and the brand new M-7A.
On the New Haven Line we have the M-2's built by General Electric and Canadian Vickers from 1973 to 1976. Remember when they were call "Cosmopolitans." There are the M-4's built by Tokyu Car and the M-6's bulit by Morrison-Knudsen.
Ten of the M-2's are still configurged as "Cafe" cars and are refered to as M-2C's. The may be the last electric mu bar cars left in the country.
Also if your lucky enough to ride out of Grand Central on tracks 1 or 2 (the two center ones) you will pass through the "Mount Prospect Tunnel" just before you reach the portal at 97 Street. This is one of only three remaining pre-Civil War built railway tunnels in New York City and the only one of the three that still has railway service.
SO come down to GCT and by your ticket before you board the train.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
The best time to ride a rail line is when new cars are coming in and the old cars are phasing out. Not only does it provide variety but it gives one an opportunity to see how the equiptment has evolved over the years.
Right now you can ride seven different kinds of MU's on Metro-North spanning 40 years of service. I don't think that any other "mainline"
railroad in the country has as many types in service.
On the Harlem and Hudson Lines we have the Pullman-Standard ACMU's from 1962 and 1965. The Budd built M-1A's from 1971-73. The Budd built M-3A's from 1982-84 and the brand new M-7A.
On the New Haven Line we have the M-2's built by General Electric and Canadian Vickers from 1973 to 1976. Remember when they were call "Cosmopolitans." There are the M-4's built by Tokyu Car and the M-6's bulit by Morrison-Knudsen.
Ten of the M-2's are still configurged as "Cafe" cars and are refered to as M-2C's. The may be the last electric mu bar cars left in the country.
Also if your lucky enough to ride out of Grand Central on tracks 1 or 2 (the two center ones) you will pass through the "Mount Prospect Tunnel" just before you reach the portal at 97 Street. This is one of only three remaining pre-Civil War built railway tunnels in New York City and the only one of the three that still has railway service.
SO come down to GCT and by your ticket before you board the train.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
wayne
Kidding aside, I wonder who was the dolt who mixed up the names.
Iwas returning from NE queens via #7 this night at approx 2:10 am and a washing crew was servicing an area mid platform. It seemed odd that no other area of the station was wet and that their attention was centered in one spot. Now I know why.
My business took me on a total of 6 trains this evening, every one of them had a selection of freaks, creeps and stoners. The worst I can recall since the late '80s.
I hope this is not indicative of the summer to come.
When the train short stopped at Willets Pt because of the incident at Main St, one of the freaks was a guy dressed in womens clothing, lip stick, hair and all.
Watch what you say, you remember what happened to John Rocker the last time he talked about freaks on the 7...
Watch what you say, you remember what happened to John Rocker the last time he talked about freaks on the 7...
Between Freak and F.., F.. would get you hurt if you told it to them, rather then the other one. :/
I said F.., NOT .F.
That you should understand.
Your spelling was going F.., F..
I SAID "F..", then ".A.", so the third would be "..G"
Now does your little brain understand? I didnt think you were dumb, but now I think you definitly are.
And if you still dont get it, the dots represent the unmeantiond letters, hence why F.., .A., ..G, NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
Since we're spelling the same word, lets call it even.
Your still spelling out the same word, I only used the short word. Go back to elementary school and learn how to spell. Because right now, you surely dont understand anything.
But since we're talking about the same word
what are you griping about?
Instead of saying it as one word, I put it as 3 seperate ones.
Your saying I'm wrong in the way I'm saying it, yet its the same thing you said. This aint the only time you didnt understand anything. -_-
Your one big idiot. How the F am I trying to confuse you if I keep telling you what the F I been telling you for the past god damn posts. Just because your one dumb idiot, doesnt mean you can then blame me for trying to un-confuse you. Sheesh.
"I ain't answering no more."
Took you long enough to realize you were wrong.
"I ain't wasting my 30 posting quota repeating myself."
Actually its the opposite, I had to repeat myself for YOU TO UNDERSTAND. I already knew what you were saying.
-_-
Da Hui
When the train short stopped at Willets Pt because of the incident at Main St, one of the freaks that was on the train was a guy dressed in womens clothing, lip stick, hair and all.
It was 'abandoned,' so to speak. I believe it was done to construct new booths at stations nearer the tunnels.
I hope this is not indicative of the summer to come.
It isn't. The media always loves to dramatize these stories and makes it look like the system is going down. Regardless of these incidents, crime in the subway is still at record lows.
Howard Stern as kingmaker in the presidential race. Yeah, I know, don't read this on a full stomach.
Here's my sad story for all who care to listen:
I was visiting a friend on the Upper East Side, and left about 10:45 and got on the (6) at 86th and Lex, with my eventual destination to my car, parked at Queens Boulevard and 40th St. I got off the (6) at 59th Street/Lex and went downstairs to wait for the N/W. A R came, then a N came. A combination of listening to the beautiful sounds coming from the pipa and keyboard musicians on the platform, along with the barely audible PA system saying that the next stop was 39th Street distracted me from realizing that I should have gone back upstairs to take the (6) down to 42nd/GCT.
As the N train emerged from the tunnel, I noticed I had a voice mail, which I later listened to. It was my dad informing of the closure of Queensboro Plaza. As we passed QBPZ, I took out my Queens bus map to try to find an alternative route to my car. If I got off at Broadway in Astoria, I saw that I could take the Q104 bus to 48th St and Queens Blvd. I would have to walk about 8 blocks, but as long as I would be on the other side of Sunnyside Yard, I would be happy.
Waiting for about 5 minutes, a young guy came up and asked me about the bus and the QBPZ closure. I was going to wait a while longer until the bus came, but he was getting impatient, and started to ask the passing car services how much it would be to 40th and Queens Blvd. I finally took out the bus map again and looked to the back for the individual lines schedule. Luckily I did this or I would have been waiting for the Q104 for a very very very long time. The Q104 had ceased to run at 11:00 pm, and it was already 11:30. So we ended up sharing a car service to 40th/Queens Blvd. I didn't really want to spend the $4 (each), but I didn't really see a better (and quicker) choice. So finally we arrive at 40th/Queens Blvd and get into my car and head home towards Flushing. I thought my worries were over, but I was soon to be let down again.
I headed up Queens Boulevard, and on to Roosevelt Boulevard to catch the BQE to head into the Grand Central Parkway. (I've come to avoid the entrance to the BQE right off of Queens Blvd as it is even more pothole ridden than off of Roosevelt!) As I'm coming around the curve and through the tunnel at the end of the BQE to merge into the Grand Central coming from the Triboro Bridge I think I'm home free! Obviously not as I see a wall of red rear lights on the Parkway. The DOT must have read my mind after mentioned to my dad about the "speed bumps" on the eastbound GCP right before the signs for the 94th Street exit. They were doing repair work which caused 5 lanes of traffice to merge into 1 *(#@&(*#@&(!@ lane! So 15 minutes later I sped off once I got past the merge.
It seems like the DOT was out in full force last night. Slightly further down the GCP the right two lanes were blocked off by the gas station, but it didn't cause any tie ups, as the road was clear after the bottleneck earlier. Finally, I got off the GCP on to the "Astoria Parkway" and then the terrible entrance/merge onto the Van Wyck/Whitestone Expressway over the Flushing River. As I got off of Linden Place, over on the service road, more DOT work going on. I finally got home at 12:30 after quite an adventure of a night! It could be worse, but it was still pretty bad.
Totally off-topic - there's a great Turkish restaurant, Hemsin, right near that corner - make sure to get the Lahmacun and lots of extra bread. And the ayran drink (salty of course). Mmmm, Turkish...
I'm glad I have more of an opportunity to eat Turkish food as I am 1/4 Turkish (Turkish-Jewish) from Izmir (Smyrna), and I guess another 1/4 Turkish if you count my ancestors from Thessalonika, Greece under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
You can get the ayran sweet or salty - I prefer the salty, but the sweet's ok too. It's made from yogurt, which I guess to some people tastes bitter, so maybe we're just different that way.
And the bread is excellent - too bad I can't get them to deliver to my place on the UWS :(
15 minutes? Lucky.
Took me almost an hour and 1/3 tank of gas from the BQE to that merge Friday night. Totally retarded the way they suddenly blocked off the GCP instead of gradually reducing lanes.
Also what made it worse was that some idiot had an accident. I wonder how.
Bull poof? Isn't that what puts all the methane into the atmosphere?
Or maybe he meant a bull PROOF vest.
If one person is killed per week because the Police are too busy hassling photographers with the ban (admittedly a thin link, but bear with me)...
And 10 years from now the shootings go on unabated, the photoban is still in place, and we're all now thoroughly cowed...
And then South Carolina Christian Fundamentalist seperatists, with no prior knowledge of the NYCTA system (that is no pictures, no lurking on this site, nothing more than THE MAP and a proximity-read Metrocard in their pockets and a briefcase full of Semtex in their hand), explode several bombs on a crowded 2 train at Times Square, killing 500...
Then the photoban was really worth it wasn't it? :\
What I suggest is a camera system like the last great mayor of tampa installed in Ybor City. It has face recognition software and scans EVERYbody to a criminal database and looks for matches. The ACLU had it disabled here, but I figure with the rampant crime and higher lacking of personal freedoms up there, this thing should be a blast/success. I'm all for it.
1. Have the trolley start in Manhasset Isle, run up Shore Rd, Main St, 101, 25A, and Old Northern BLVD to the clock tower. Then, convert the N23 to all Harbor Rd runs. This would atleast give the section between Mill Pond and the PW LIRR station to trolley only service.
2. Convert entire N23 to trolley(definately not happening).
All in all, as great of an idea this is, I'm very skeptical about whether or not this will even be seriously considered.
When these business groups say "trolley" they mean the oversized open air vans whose bodies are built to look like trolleys. I consider them vans or trucks, not even buses or real trolleys, like streetcars and PCC's.
www.forgotten-ny.com
I was on a Philadelphia PCC fantrip a while ago and we had a photo stop on a bridge. After we reboarded, one of those retarded looking rubber tire trolleys was approaching us. All aboard erupted in boos and catcalls because we were riding the real thing.
I wonder if any of Bob Diamonds surplus PCCs may be considered or are we talking about a Gomaco replica ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Personally, I really like what they did to the old Bay st. station.
Off course what would a day be without a few incidents........Our ALP44 missed a cement truck stopped a tad to close to the tracks and of course a pax running under the gates to catch the NY local.
This is a four page fold-out brochure for the museum in Brooklyn, but it has a nose shot of PRR GG-1 #4907 as the front cover.
Why would the MTA use a picture of a GG-1 on a brochure for the transit museum?
I don't know why it was on the cover, but it's always good to see a G on the front of something. I wonder if there's any chance they might get a G for the Transit Museum? There might be a problem placing it in there, although they could cut it up and reassemble it, as they did after it plowed in Washington's Union Terminal.
: )
Mark
Mark
While some European cultures may still regard smoking as a sign of sophistication (though that's probably changing), in the United States it's increasingly seen as a sign of moral weakness.
Fortunately, there are some good signs. Want a Toyota Prius? Get in line and start saving. The waiting list is years long, and the dealer markup is pushing $5000.
Mark
A group of Atlantic City boosters organized a sesquicentennial train, using NJTransit Philadelphia to Atlantic City train #4611. Michael Doyle played the part of Dr Jonathan Pitney, "the father of Atlantic City", and organized the celebration. He got scant cooperation from NJT - two extra cars on train 4611 and NJT's South Jersey Superintendant (a good guy, formerly working public relations with SNJLRTS River Line) on board. NJT put out a press release Wednesday with Warrington taking credit for the celebration.
Dr Pitney, affable accordion player "Fingers" Cannoli, and a surfer met passengers in the main waiting room at 30th Street Station. The celebration started on the platform shortly before train time. Channel 6 was on the platform and the Inquirer was on the train.
I asked the conductor not to let the train leave Lindenwold without me while I jumped off to grab a quick photo. He obliged.
Cape May Seashore Lines general manager Tony Macrie boarded the train in Hammonton (where he's lived all his life), and "Fingers" Cannoli played "On the Way to Cape May" in honor of Tony.
Egg Harbor City presented the anniversary train with a proclamation when we stopped there.
The mayor of Absecon lead the celebration on the NJT platform.
After the train arrived in Atlantic City, the celebration continued inside the NJT terminal, with King Neptune giving out 150th anniversary T shirts to media and a few lucky railfans.
After the shindig ended, some of us walked the boardwalk and ate lunch at the Baltimore Grill, then a couple of us rode the celebratory trainset back to Lindenwold, where I got a photo of the engine and the five-car train before I took PATCO to Collingswood and walked home.
It’s a real pity George Warrington doesn’t have any sense of style. If he knew what was any good for him personally, and NJT in general, he would have been there, dressed up for the occasion, and getting the NJT press office publicizing the event for all its worth. Even get the Governor in on the act. I don’t know whether NJT could get hold of an appropriately old car for the occasion to tow behind a regular train, but this would be the time.
Anyway, the people on board the train had fun, even if the young lad in this photo looked a bit bemused!
Transit content: Collingswood, Westmont, and Haddonfield all have PATCO stations.
And, no problems, nobody said "You can't take pictures" and a good time was had by all.
Kudos to NJT for allowing the celebration to occur. There's been so much bad press about NJT, it's a good thing to allow events like this.
I've always found the AC line ads quite amusing as you have here, "Chauffer Driven." I also remember on the bridge over Rt 30? 70? "The Ultimate Off-Road Vehicle."
Rt 70
Koi
By CANDACE SMITH
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - Metrorail stations can handle eight car trains, and there is less work involved than originally thought to get them into service, Metro officials are expected to tell board members Thursday.
The subway system was designed 28 years ago to accommodate the longer trains, and they ran briefly in the mid-1970s. But back then Metro officials said they had more time between trains to correct things if a train overshot the station.
"If you had some hiccups at that time, or even eight years ago or 10 years ago, you had some time to recover. Today, you don't have time for recovery," said P. Takis Salpeas, Metro's head of construction.
Eight car trains are 600 feet long - exactly the same length as Metro station platforms. It wasn't until a recent study that officials knew they could get the longer trains to stop within the platforms on a regular basis.
Last July, Metro's board approved a $3 million pilot project to test the stopping ability of eight car trains. Rail car manufacturer Alstom found Metro does not need to install more equipment on the tracks to get the trains to stop at the platform. Salpeas said the extra savings would be used to install new stopping software in at least 16 rail cars before next June.
Alstom also determined its software could overshoot or undershoot platforms by about 3.5 feet - a half foot more than Metro wanted. Officials said that's still acceptable, but if the trains overshoot a platform by 6.5 feet or more the doors won't open automatically. They figure that could happen at one station stop every three days, and if it does passengers in the first car will have to wait to get off at the next station during rush hour service.
"If you start backing up, (in) 10 minutes you got four trains in there that are starting to bunch," said Lemuel Proctor, Metro's outgoing head of rail operations.
All but 10 percent of the 950-rail car fleet will get the software upgrades. The 100 older model rail cars will have to wait until a scheduled 2012 overhaul.
There is no funding yet to upgrade the entire fleet. Officials have said they need $625 million for 120 rail cars, rail yard expansions and power upgrades to run longer trains. Metro's board agreed in April to spend $22 million in engineering upgrades for power and rail yard capacity, but it has to decide in October whether to buy 50 rail cars. If not, Metro officials have predicted a two year delay in starting eight car trains, which would mean even more overcrowded conditions.
Metro officials said if they get the requested funding, longer trains will be in service by the end of 2006, with one running every five trains during rush hours. They hope to have eight car trains in about half of the stations by 2008.
Metro officials are studying where to put the longer trains. The Orange and Green lines are the most congested now, according to Metro. Board members would have to make a decision on which lines would get the cars by June 2006 because of train operators' scheduling, Proctor said.
Incredible.
Not that this might happen, but that it’s considered acceptable.
Priceless!
A well trained operator will have the feel of how at train should stop under automatic control. Knowing this profile he/she can stop the train before it over shoot the platform. I have been on trains where the operator hit the plunger (Emergence Stop Button) to keep the train from over running the station.
John
Aren't these trains CBTC control (or so I thought)? This gives new meaning to the term WTFMATA! As far as the driver using foul language, I think he saw the writing on the wall.
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
David
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
There is in fact a manual override. There is a stop button on the console. I addressed this in post 733220
John
No need for the extra 10’ With all of the hardware maintained both train board and way side to proper specification the berthing of the train should not be a problem.
Most of you may be to young to remember when 8 car trains were common practice, WMATA put green markers on the platforms and on the walls beyond the platforms. These markers let the operator know that all of the door were on the platform even if the train over shot or under shot the platform but not so far that the first or last door was beyond the end of the platform. Some of these green markers still exist.
The track circuit used to determine that the train is berth at the platform is 600’ long. Both ends of the train must be within this track circuit so way side train control can receive a train berth signal from both ends of the train. If the train to wayside antenna on the first or last car is beyond the boundary of the track circuit wayside control will only receive a train berth signal from one only end of the train and will not transmit a door open command to the train.
There is another solution that I don’t know if anybody thought of, mind you I don’t even know if it will work without compromising safety. Lengthen the platform track circuit by 10’ to 12’.
John
Slightly related note: Market-Fankford Line trains tend to FREQUENTLY overshoot the platform (If you're ever up here on one (or a BSS train) and hear the "triple horn" as the train slows down in the station or after it stops, that signal indicates the train needs to back up to get the doors all within the space of the platform length, as one has overshot the station), but they simply back up a bit to get the door where it needs to be. And the MFL has about equal frequencies to WMATA.
This would compromising one of the most important safety protocols designed in to the train control system. Disabling the train birthed acknowledged command would allow all of the door to be opened anywhere along the main line when the train is stopped. One less layer of the protections of safety. Also disabling the train birthed acknowledged command would eliminate the capability of opening the doors automatically when the train is properly birthed at a platform.
During the first few months of operation some of these protection were disabled just to keep the bug redden trains running. I can vividly recall as if it happened yesterday being on one of the 6 car trains that was run on opening day 03 27 1976 with a full load stopping at Farragut North. After opening the doors on the left on the Shady Grove bound side of the platform for some reason the doors opened on the right side. I was standing next to the right side doors when it happened. I stuck my head out the door an looked both ways. Luckily no one took that long step out of the train on to the grating on the florescent light trough.
John
A lot of people don’t understand that if the crowd is at one location on a given platform they will end up on a crowded car of a train that might have empty seats in other cars. Some use the system enough to know better and some a very small minority even know to board the car of the train that is closest to platform exit escalator / stair at the station they are going to.
John
Perhaps the T/O should be stationed at the middle of the train, so that he can see the rear of the train just as well as he can see the front. Do we really need the T/O to be up front on an OPTO train? I'd think cameras and other systems would do just fine in a modern railroad without the prejudices and practices of older, more established systems, such as NYC and Philly.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
In the newest ones, there is a LED sign at each end inside. I've always seen it say merely "GREEN" or "RED". Recently I was on a Green Line to Greenbelt (it should be my daughter's nickname since she's at UMD), and the sign actually said different things. They finally programmed at least one train to do what Philadelphia's trains have been doing for 4 years now.
It said, for example:
(While doors are open) GREEN
(As it's moving along) COLUMBIA HTS
(Just when you look up in the tunnel to see what's the next station)
<<<
so you know the doors open on the left.
Then as soon as the doors open, it switches back to: GREEN
It would seem to me that they could alternate the station name and those nearly invisible arrows, so you know what you are looking at. It is not clear that the arrows mean the doors are opening on the left, but when I got off at Greenbelt, and after the train shifted to the other side of the platform before entering the terminal, there were >>> arrows showing. Now if only it could say LAST STOP or EVERYONE EXIT, so people would know it's the end of the line...
But at least they didn't pay all that money just to have it say GREEN (it just seems that way).
Go Terps!! I enjoyed my time at UMD. : )
Ben F. Schumin :-)
RUmor: 7 express will run untill 10:45, but first they have to see what is going to happen with the current fleet in the upcoming months.
YTF is this necessary?
Pelham Exp goes to bed just after 7...
Incredible.
Not that this might happen, but that it’s considered acceptable.
Priceless!
A well trained operator will have the feel of how at train should stop under automatic control. Knowing this profile he/she can stop the train before it over shoot the platform. I have been on trains where the operator hit the plunger (Emergence Stop Button) to keep the train from over running the station.
John
Aren't these trains CBTC control (or so I thought)? This gives new meaning to the term WTFMATA! As far as the driver using foul language, I think he saw the writing on the wall.
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
David
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
There is in fact a manual override. There is a stop button on the console. I addressed this in post 733220
John
No need for the extra 10’ With all of the hardware maintained both train board and way side to proper specification the berthing of the train should not be a problem.
Most of you may be to young to remember when 8 car trains were common practice, WMATA put green markers on the platforms and on the walls beyond the platforms. These markers let the operator know that all of the door were on the platform even if the train over shot or under shot the platform but not so far that the first or last door was beyond the end of the platform. Some of these green markers still exist.
The track circuit used to determine that the train is berth at the platform is 600’ long. Both ends of the train must be within this track circuit so way side train control can receive a train berth signal from both ends of the train. If the train to wayside antenna on the first or last car is beyond the boundary of the track circuit wayside control will only receive a train berth signal from one only end of the train and will not transmit a door open command to the train.
There is another solution that I don’t know if anybody thought of, mind you I don’t even know if it will work without compromising safety. Lengthen the platform track circuit by 10’ to 12’.
John
Slightly related note: Market-Fankford Line trains tend to FREQUENTLY overshoot the platform (If you're ever up here on one (or a BSS train) and hear the "triple horn" as the train slows down in the station or after it stops, that signal indicates the train needs to back up to get the doors all within the space of the platform length, as one has overshot the station), but they simply back up a bit to get the door where it needs to be. And the MFL has about equal frequencies to WMATA.
This would compromising one of the most important safety protocols designed in to the train control system. Disabling the train birthed acknowledged command would allow all of the door to be opened anywhere along the main line when the train is stopped. One less layer of the protections of safety. Also disabling the train birthed acknowledged command would eliminate the capability of opening the doors automatically when the train is properly birthed at a platform.
During the first few months of operation some of these protection were disabled just to keep the bug redden trains running. I can vividly recall as if it happened yesterday being on one of the 6 car trains that was run on opening day 03 27 1976 with a full load stopping at Farragut North. After opening the doors on the left on the Shady Grove bound side of the platform for some reason the doors opened on the right side. I was standing next to the right side doors when it happened. I stuck my head out the door an looked both ways. Luckily no one took that long step out of the train on to the grating on the florescent light trough.
John
A lot of people don’t understand that if the crowd is at one location on a given platform they will end up on a crowded car of a train that might have empty seats in other cars. Some use the system enough to know better and some a very small minority even know to board the car of the train that is closest to platform exit escalator / stair at the station they are going to.
John
Perhaps the T/O should be stationed at the middle of the train, so that he can see the rear of the train just as well as he can see the front. Do we really need the T/O to be up front on an OPTO train? I'd think cameras and other systems would do just fine in a modern railroad without the prejudices and practices of older, more established systems, such as NYC and Philly.
Click Here To View
(Tested and Viewed in Window's Media Player, Don't know if it works in any other video medium)
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.info
Trevor
Your pal,
Speed
Chuck Greene
til next time
A 20 year old man leaned over the edge of the platform and got nailed in the head by a train. He's now in serious condition at the hospital. Hopefully he will be okay and is now a little wiser. What happened to common sense? Is it being transferred to another life form? I wonder how that affected service.
Matt
We had one of these in NYC not too long ago. IIRC it happened on a 34th Street Platform either on the 7th or 8th Avenue Lion. As you know there, express trains in both directions use the same platform.
I suspect the dude saw a northbound train across the platform, assumed it was a local and was looking down the "express" track to see if a train was coming before making up his mind to board the first.
Well a train *was* coming, but it was coming from the direction that he wasn't looking and so clopped him.
Anyway, since the Chicago incident happened at the ballpark one might well presume that the goose did not know which wat the train was running and so got himself clopped in the back of the head.
Expect a Train at any time on any track in any direction.
Elias
Ben F. Schumin :-)
In the newest ones, there is a LED sign at each end inside. I've always seen it say merely "GREEN" or "RED". Recently I was on a Green Line to Greenbelt (it should be my daughter's nickname since she's at UMD), and the sign actually said different things. They finally programmed at least one train to do what Philadelphia's trains have been doing for 4 years now.
It said, for example:
(While doors are open) GREEN
(As it's moving along) COLUMBIA HTS
(Just when you look up in the tunnel to see what's the next station)
<<<
so you know the doors open on the left.
Then as soon as the doors open, it switches back to: GREEN
It would seem to me that they could alternate the station name and those nearly invisible arrows, so you know what you are looking at. It is not clear that the arrows mean the doors are opening on the left, but when I got off at Greenbelt, and after the train shifted to the other side of the platform before entering the terminal, there were >>> arrows showing. Now if only it could say LAST STOP or EVERYONE EXIT, so people would know it's the end of the line...
But at least they didn't pay all that money just to have it say GREEN (it just seems that way).
Go Terps!! I enjoyed my time at UMD. : )
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Your opinions are, as always, welcome and encouraged.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
I have an internal WMATA document on a different subject that gives the impression that the Rohr cars will be rehabilitated at least once more before they are retired.
The document talks about optimum train consist size for load levels at different times of the day, The running of two car trains is never mentioned in the document. The document was prepared to set a "Quality of Service" policy for WMATA metrorail. I will mark up the text of document to HTML and post for all to see.
John
Peace,
ANDEE
Nah... he only dealt with the possible sex acts.
Of course he had a *different* name for them,
To quote Heston...it's gonna be a "maaaaaaadhouse, a maaaaaaadhouse"
www.forgotten-ny.com
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/crime/nyc-slip0702,0,5636312,print.story?coll=nyc-homepage-headlines
"Just relax, we're helping you," one of the emergency workers told him.
As they took him off to the black heliocopters.
: )
If you're standing on a crisscross panel, chances are if the gibbler is in motion,
IT WILL TAKE YOU ALONG with it...
I doubt any of us have feet small enough to fit on only 1 panel.
I was wondering what had happened, and how they were planning on running D service over the bridge? I guess they diverted it over the F or A into Jay Street. Anyone know how long the disruption lasted?
Peace,
ANDEE
Robert
Peace.
ANDEE
Robert
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
In Helmetta, New Jersey, there is an old, historic Snuff Mill, formerly of the Helme company, which gave the town its name, and now the town wants to tear it down! This, in spite of the factory's being the centerpiece of Helmetta. This, in spite of the fact that it has loomed large as a landmark in town.
Why? Because they want to build houses for retirees!
Nothing wrong with building retiree housing. (We have several retirement communities - err, "active adult communities" is the going term those days - in neighboring Monroe, defraying our school taxes.) However, to tear down the whole thing, to throw away a ton of history for the sake of lower taxes, is that really the best thing to do? I think not. History is a precious thing, Helmetta, it shouldn't be squandered simply because you want to pander housing to a bunch of time-honored people.
Work on the mill site was delegated by the town to the current owners of the mill, some firm called Helmetta Lenape LLC, the other day, and the mill hasn't been used in ten years. I'd use the older parts mill as some sort of entertainment and arts center, while tearing down the newer parts (we don't need the WHOLE barn, we just need to preserve the flavor and history of Helmetta).
Some have proposed that the mill be annexed to the Jamesburg Park that lies behind the mill; the park is a Middlesex County preserve and its name is odd, as the town of Jamesburg is on the OTHER side of Helmetta (well, with a wad of Monroe Twp. sticking in between). I'm all for such a proposal. Heck, why not try running passenger trains to it as a destination? (Yes, this is a slap in the face to the opponents of the MOM rail line.)
We have an enormous "Pennsylvania Station" here in Helmetta, and, once again, the forces of Progress want to lay it to waste. That's sad.
Sincerely,
Maybe if you're lucky, the mill's haunted and the ghost will be pissed at a bunch of old folks living there. ;)
NEW YORK (AP) -- A man was shot twice in the face on a New York City subway platform, the fifth shooting on the city's transit system in just over a month.
The 23-year-old victim was in serious but stable condition after the Thursday night shooting on a Manhattan-bound platform in the borough of Queens, police said.
Police were looking for one shooter, a man, according to Detective Eric Crisafi, a police spokesman.
It was unclear what sparked the shooting or where the victim had been going when he was wounded.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/07/02/subway.shooting.ap/index.html
As for Iranian Security Personnel photographing the #7 line, most here on subtalk would find this as perfectly acceptable. They were probably looking for some ideas for the Tehran O gauge model RR club layout so their MTH R-12s won't look out of place in the sand.
You cannot.
These people are in the country only because they are attached to the Iran Mission to the UN. Otherwise they would not be permitted into the country at all. (Or so the story line goes)
We ought to treat them as any other guest to our country, but we do not have to, and we can PNG them on any trumped up charge that we would like.
That being said, I agree with you. Let them take all the pictures that they want. We should be bigger than all of the pettyness. Let them click away.
Elias
If the person doing the photography is a representative of the Islamic Republic of Iran, then it's improper.
UN diplomatic personnel from unfriendly countries are confined to a 25-mile radius of NYC. I don't know if there are any restrictions on their activities and/or movement within that radius.
What can be done about this, as good citizens to eliminate these awful and deadly occurances? I can only imagine the terror that must have resulted for any innocent bystanders.
Does anyone have some meaningful ideas?
Or are we just at risk? Or is this just a sign of the times?
I wish I knew that answer myself.
Have a Happy and Safe July 4th Everyone.
Your friend
Greg
As Archie Bunker once put it...
"Want to stop all the high jacking on airplanes?...Give ever passenger a gun before they get on the plane"
Just kidding....
Happy Holidays JPC.........
Greg
It doesn't scare me, I'll be doing massive amounts of railfanning this month.
I was interested to see this computer generated sketch of what the R 142 subway cars would look like. I had never seen this before. The roof contours looks to me a little like a London tube train.
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/new_york/new_york5.html
You can see the entire article with a lot of photos by clicking on the link at the bottom of the photo.
--Mark
-Broadway Buffer
Have a good Fourth
Here's a link an explanation of the technology and a
chance to see how it works.
http://www.urbanmapping.com/technology.html
And the only train service not running on weekends unduplicated by a weekend train is the V between 5th Avenue and Rockefeller Center. Then a separate map is unneeded.
That shows mid day service and it is closer to the weekend than the regular map with rush hour services.
Also what is the difference between the 7 and 11 lines?
Just use the regular map and ignore the B, M (except north of Myrtle), V, W, Z, and 9. The N runs local in Manhattan (north of Canal), and all 5, 6, and 7 trains run local in the Bronx and Queens. That covers all the important stuff.
Then remember to check the service advisories (online or posted in the stations—online has more details), since there will be changes.
In other words - don't take pictures.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Railfan photography isn't covered by the freedom of speech because that mainly protects people's right to criticize the government, as well as talk about stuff. The freedom of press thing is possibly applicable to railfanning, but we aren't really reporting anything. The president is breaking the freedom of press by not allowing certain aspects of the war to be photographed, and also that incident with Anton Scalia a few weeks ago.
So therefore, unfortunately, as much as we dislike it, government can ban railfan photography, for it would be constitutional to do so. Although one can argue that railfanning is their religion, or some silly thing like that, and make a railfanning religion that the government would try to ban, but can't, since that would truly be unconstitutional.
BTW, all of this sucks and I'd like to press the rewind button to the year 2000, and get Gore to do more campaigning in his home state, then rewind to 1998, when the CIA launched cruise missiles at al-Qaeda camps, and change the coordinates so that they strike al-Qaeda HQ, then this whole mess would be avoided...
No it wouldn't. Al-Qaeda is effectively a myth anyway. I'm not saying that there aren't terrorists who call themselves members of Al-Qaeda, but it's not really a hierarchical organization that would collapse with the death of its leader. These people hate America Bin Laden or not.
As a railfan I think a photo ban would be wrong-minded. I enjoy videotaping and photographing my cab rides. On the other hand, the TA's mission statement does refer to SAFE transportation and it's for the agency to determine what is needed to keep the majority of riders (who are not railfans) safe. If they determine that banning photography under narrow circumstances is prudent then it's their judgement.
Photography is not the only aspect to railfanning. Obviously some people consider Skylarking or surfing to be part of railfanning. Other railfans think that exploring tunnels, changing side signs, or tagging or even stealing a train is what railfanning is all about. Common sense dictates that if you can ban tagging or tunnel exploration as unacceptable forms of railfanning, why can't photography be equally subjectively banned. Clearly it can be but equally clearly it hasn't been to this point. If and when it is, we'll still have other ways to enjoy our hobby. Even if it is 'banned', most of us will still be able to enjoy it simply by getting a permit. Try getting a permit to photograph in Rikers Island.
Obviously though, there are some issues that I haven't seen discussed as far as this goes that might be of interest to those planning to address this issue. Obviously, commercial photography "customers" would be able to obtain a permit and credentials. I don't however see any particular interest in granting "hobbyist" permits from what I've read. But even IF the agency will be granting those, there's something folks are missing here ...
State agencies are permitted (nay, ENCOURAGED) to charge a FEE for any paperwork of any kind if paperwork is to be done, even more so if it results in some form of certificate. One of the questions I don't see being raised is what kind of *FEE* will be charged for this transaction, amounting to a "railfan tax" ... will it prohibit inner city kids from pursuing one of the less expensive "hobbies?"
I agree with you that a ban/permit requirement would almost certainly be upheld in the courts.
I would add that as a New Yorker who doesn't take pictures in the subway I think the ban would be wrong-minded. There is no conceivable way that a ban (or permit requirement) would improve security. It would give NYC even more of a bad name than it already has as a bureaucratic place that makes money by giving summonses to innocent tourists.
It would also make MTA management look very foolish, which is also bad for New York. Lots of people will realize that the ban is a way to look like you're doing something about terrorism without actually providing any substance.
Actually doing something to make the subways safe from terrorism without making them unusuable is an incredibly difficult, unglamorous, and unnoticed task. The MTA seems to be propsing an easy route to look effective without necessarily being effective.
Do you know something the rest of us don’t? I’ve seen no indications that permits will actually be available to the general public.
It also introduces an administrative burden on the TA which does not enhance the security of the subways - and will create a budget hole that DHS will not necessarily fill with federal dollars.
Having said that, I should add that there is merit in your previous post. If the TA is sensible, it will minimize the inconvenience to the rail buffs.
Incidentally, rail buffs (not the ones in the minority who trash trains, jump turnstiles or threaten public safety) are good for the TA. They ride frequently, buy MetroCards, encourage other people to ride and even advocate for the TA when hearings come up. The TA should indulge them where possible because they are allies of the agency.
How about the experience of the last two years, when one or more NYCT spokespeople have said that the MTA does require permits for photography but isn't issuing any. Surely that is a suggestion (though by no means a guarantee) of policy to come.
Are you truly 100% confident that the MTA WILL issue permits if the proposal goes through?
To qualify, you need to locate the exact location of this mezzanine.
YAY!! I win......... wtf is the prize, anyways? lol
Fulton Street Complex (being rebuilt)
Atlantic Avenue (the whole 2-3-4-5 train gig)
Bergen St. Lower (you're always giddy over it)
Entrance to Heypaul's.... ?
You have to come up with a shocking answer for this one. And I was giddy over Bergen St because neither of the two stations has a mezzanine. (Remember 95th st on "NY Underground"?)
Fulton Street J/M/Z "the 1am Saturday" sign place?
The estimated cost is now $42 million. "We've already spent $13 million. To abandon the plan at this point is not practical."
Some people call that "throwing good money after bad."
I do have problems with their plan. For example I don't understand why they're restricting themselves to 8 passengers per tram car. It seems to me that the Roosevelt Island Tram carrys more than that, and that seems possibly like what they should be aiming for. A larger tram car would likely be cheaper to operate in the long run, and might allow lower fares without subsidization. Of course then you face the prospect of unloading and loading a tram car carrying perhaps 50 people in the minute or two between cars, RI Tram has it easy since the trams do not share the same wire. I also think their ticket prices are wildly expensive, it'd be nice to see $1.25 or so prices, that might get commuters to use it. However that'd likely require a subsidy from somewhere, be it the government, the developer or the property owners. If development continues along the Camden Waterfront, then the value of such a system would only grow. With a monthly ticket I could see people commuting from Old City and the Apartments on the water to places like L3 and other companies that will presumably move in, as well as people commuting from the Nipper Building to Center City. Ideally the tram might take a Transpass, thereby eliminating the need for multiple tickets, but we all know that's too much to hope for.
Besides, in addition to 13 million dollars you have two massive piers out there on either side of the river, it looks ridiculous right now, as if they're abandoned battlements from a war that was never fought.
One of the best perks at L3 was the real Philadelphia soft pretzels all connected together to be broken apart that they sold in the cafeteria, though they always were sold out by 10 AM. Now THAT's looking after your employees.
And to think there are groups in other cities that file lawsuits to halt LRT construction after they spend 20-30x that much.
What type of ariel tram are they talking about. One like in NY or one like a ski lift? :)
If you or somebody wants to be on TV to talk about the 100 years in Transit with the trains and service go to this site
http://www.wnbc.com/mta/3395637/detail.html
I guess he didn't read the "Post Message-Click Once" warning :-)
Once upon a time there was this New Yorker who always wanted to work for the subway, he did, he wrote a book and now he lives out West.
Everyone awoke.
Now what? Another shooting?
Did they stop teaching grammar, punctuation and sentence structure in schools?
By Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 2, 2004; Page B01
Metro's top manager said yesterday that he will monitor conditions in subway stations on weeknights after 10, when Metro is trying to save money by running shorter trains, and will restore longer trains if crowding is a problem.
"If it requires us to keep all or part of the system at four-car trains instead of breaking them down [into two-car trains], that's what we'll have to do," Metro Chief Executive Richard A. White said.
White made those comments as complaints from the public poured in to the transit system and a Metro board member questioned the wisdom of the new policy.
This week, Metro cut the length of trains in half, from four cars to two, on every line after 10 p.m. Sunday through Thursday. Metro expects the plan will save $1 million a year in reduced electrical, labor and maintenance costs.
White said Metro workers will count the number of passengers boarding trains after 10 p.m. next week. He said he would restore the four-car trains if the stations were busy and if short trains would mean some passengers would be left on platforms.
That was exactly the condition Tuesday night at the Metro Center Station between 10:30 and 11 p.m.
Passengers were unable to squeeze onto jammed Orange and Blue Line trains and had to wait 15 to 20 minutes to try to board the next train. Many riders mentioned ruefully that the trains shrank the same week Metro began charging higher fares and fees.
"We're paying more and getting less," said Donald Center, 23, of Centreville.
Since the policy took effect, it has created a late Metro crunch, especially on the heavily traveled Red Line in downtown Washington. At the Farragut North, Metro Center, Gallery Place-Chinatown and Union Station stops, angry crowds have found themselves competing for space on the late trains.
The crowding has caused some schedule delays, and several riders complained about missing connections to buses. By the time her two-car Blue Line train reached the Addison Road-Seat Pleasant Station stop on Monday, Karen Hayes had missed the last C26 bus of the night. She and a friend had to spend $15 on a cab ride home. "The train was, like, 10 minutes late," said Hayes, 38. "The bus was completely gone."
The cuts come as local governments and businesses in the District, Bethesda and Arlington are promoting nightlife.
By yesterday afternoon, Metro had received 118 complaints about the short trains, an unusually high number. Some came from riders who said they had to let one or two go past before they could board.
"People are being excluded from our trains," D.C. Council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1), who represents the District on the Metro board, said during a Metro meeting yesterday. "It's the antithesis of what we want. We're leaving them on the platforms. This was not our intention. I want a quick analysis of the seriousness of this problem."
As they debated the future of two-car trains, Metro directors also heard a progress report from Metro staff members about the prospects for operating eight-car trains.
The subway was built to operate eight-car trains, but Metro has never had enough rail cars to run trains that long. Instead, it runs a mix of four- and six-car trains during the peak periods. A crowded six-car train can handle 720 riders; an eight-car train has room for 960.
To run eight-car trains during peak hours, Metro would have to buy 120 rail cars, upgrade its power system and expand its rail yards at a cost of about $625 million.
Metro managers said recent tests delivered good news: The transit system doesn't have to install additional equipment along the tracks to make sure the longer trains stop in the right spots in the stations consistently.
Board members must decide by October whether to exercise an option on Metro's most recent rail car contract and order 50 additional subway cars. If they do, eight-car trains could run by 2006, White said.
They should hold last busses of the night which are scheduled to depart in conjunction with train arrivals if the trains are late. Just good customer service.
Simpson St closing.
I also see the swipers will have a field day at that station too.
This is strange because there is entry and exit access to the Uptown side, but not for the disabled.
Full details available at www.gravtran.com.
Mark
I have a picture of new kind of car I drew as a child, with a motor hooked up to a generator. Since generators were more powerful than motors, I figured there had to be enough left over to run the car.
Ever since then, engineering types have been telling me, and the cold fusion people, that we were out of luck. We were just looking in the wrong place. On a train, anything is possible.
What does purpetual motion have to do with a train gliding downhill? Isn't that what gravtrain is? Gravity, going downhill. And then how do you get it to go back up the hill? Is this used just for express runs down the hill? Or does it store the energy like a wind-up toy to go back up it?
Mark
They should hold last busses of the night which are scheduled to depart in conjunction with train arrivals if the trains are late. Just good customer service.
WASHINGTON (July 2) - A federal appeals court ruled Friday that Amtrak employees can't walk off the job to protest what they call chronic government underfunding of the passenger railroad.
Members of unions representing 8,000 of Amtrak's 21,000 employees said in October they'd call a work stoppage because Congress and the Bush administration wouldn't give the railroad enough money. Such an action could have affected intercity passenger service as well as commuter trains in some major cities.
The unions argued that the law banning strikes doesn't apply to the proposed walkout because it would be a political action that had nothing to do with negotiations over pay or working conditions.
The court disagreed, noting that Amtrak unions are engaged in negotiation or mediation with the railroad over new contracts.
"Call it a political protest rather than a strike; no matter," the court said, adding that federal law prohibits a strike as well as any union tactic that "has the consequences of a strike."
Amtrak lost its initial lawsuit in federal court to prevent the walkout. The unions agreed that they wouldn't do anything until a higher court ruled on the railroad's appeal.
Since then, Congress gave Amtrak $600 million less than the $1.8 billion that the railroad's president said it needed for 2004. President Bush had proposed giving Amtrak about half of what it wanted.
Douglas Ginsburg, chief judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, wrote that the amount that Congress gives to Amtrak determines how much it can pay its employees.
"We think it clear that, insofar as the subject matter of the unions' proposed strike is the level of congressional appropriations for Amtrak, the strike does 'grow out of' the major dispute between Amtrak and the unions over the formation of new collective bargaining agreements concerning, among other things, rates of pay and working conditions," Ginsburg wrote.
For the budget year starting in October, Amtrak asked for $1.798 billion. Bush proposed giving the railroad $900 million.
On the Net:
Amtrak: http://www.amtrak.com
07/02/04 11:47 EDT
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
Right! This would allow for NJ Transit to finally run ON TIME (as long as the engines don't die due to the deplorable maintenace)!
'Tain't so McGee!
AMTK runs NYP
0 AMTK = 0 NYP
0 NYP = Shitsandwhich on NJT
:(
Two of the tracks would get the E train to the Court St. station, that is now used by the Transit Museum. The C and E would run this way, and use the currently abandoned outside tracks of the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station. There would be a new station at the tip of Manhattan. In addition, I envision the E train running down the Franklin Avenue ROW (which would have to be modified) and down the Brighton Line as a local, terminating at Ocean Avenue.
Two of the tunnels tracks would connect to the Second Avenue Subway. In Brooklyn, it would run under, but not stop at, the IND Court St. station. There would be a new four track, two platform lower level at Hoyt-Schermerhorn. The SAS would stop here.
The last two tracks would connect to Whitehall Street, allowing the W train to travel to Brooklyn in this new tunnel, and also hook up to a future lower level of the Nassau Street Loop, which would connect to the express tracks at Chambers Street. These two tunnel tracks would run under the IND Court Street station, without stopping, and it have a stop at the new lower level of Hoyt Schermerhorn
From the new lower level of Hoyt Schermerhorn, two tracks would continue to eventually connect with the LIRR's Atlantic Terminal. This would allow the implementation of the RPA's recomendation, from their Rx plan, of using the Atlantic Avenue line. Also, two tracks would continue to a future lower level of the Fourth Avenue BMT line to Staten Island. This would be a four track line, with stops at Pacific Street, and 59th Street before heading to St. George.
Also, two tracks would be built, between the upper level local and express tracks of the Fulton Street line, that would connect to the lower level.
Thoughts?
There is a short six-track tunnel in Queens (of sorts) - under Northern Blvd, until the 63rd St ramps then rise and merge with the other four tracks.
Good, creative idea for subtalk, but probably will not happen in our lifetime because of $$$, politics, and bureacratic red tape.
I believe in the econometric analysis of presidential politics, which means that Bush will probably be reelected. 2006 could be the year that Charlie Rangle assumes the Ways & Means throne.
The only problem with your plan is: From the new lower level of Hoyt Schermerhorn, two tracks would continue to eventually connect with the LIRR's Atlantic Terminal. This would allow the implementation of the RPA's recomendation, from their Rx plan, of using the Atlantic Avenue line.
This gets you an automatic "Bzzzt", as Subway and LIRR aren't (legally, at least) compatible, so that would mean no LIRR to Atlantic Terminal, and that just ain't gonna happen unless Pataki has some sort of magical plan up his sleeve ("Yes, Yes, Young William, the AirTrain/Subway will just hover slightly above the LIRR... - we will call it 'FRA approved Phase-Dimensional-Separation'")
R-32.
The idea good, but at the same time total fantasy. It would not at all be possible. Not just financially, but it would just not be possible to build. Plus, do you really think it would be useful, or would it just be throwing money in the garbage?
********************************************************************
I had an idea I thought up a few years ago an A-Division 2nd Ave Subway idea. An (8) & <8>. (8) would go from the (6) & <6> in the Bronx, Exp replacing <6>. Then after 3 Ave it will go along 2 Ave to 2 St where it will switch over to Allen St. (<8> would cut in from Roosevelt Island and run Exp. Then will go along there and stop at E Bway and then go over the Manhattan Bridge and terminating on a new platform at Atlantic Ave.
I think that might make a little more sense and be a little more useful.
-Broadway Buffer
Have a good Fourth
If its possible to pull of such a proposal, and keep the Transit Museum intact, that would be great. Rather than a station at Court Street, there could be a station at Atlantic Avenue, perhaps closer to the water.
Also, as much as I love it, I would never let the Transit Museum dictate the evolution of the Subway System. That's the tail wagging the dog. The museum can always be moved.
Where can they move it to? Any other abandoned stations that are in good enough condition to have the Transit Museum moved to it?
Here are all the abandoned stations:
City Hall
Worth
18 ST
91 ST
Myrtle
Sedgwick
Jerome
Cortland
Tell me which one to move the Transit Museum to. Looks to me like none of the above are possibe, but you give me your opinions.
-Broadway Buffer
Have a good Fourth
Why not the lower level of 9th Avenue in Brooklyn? Three tracks, none in revenue service. There's even some area outside of the portals to build an additional structure (such as a museum building and/or street entrance), or to extend the station itself, in order to display more cars.
And it'd be good for the neighborhood. Even if the present museum dosen't close I would like to see this happen. As a secondary museum it could possibly offer a more intense look at Brooklyns transit history. Call it the Brooklyn Annex.
-Broadway Buffer
Happy Fourth
And even if there was no plan to bring back a Culver Exp, Bergen lower level would still cost way too much to repair. Plus, u really need an island platform for a transit museum, not w/ trains on 2 different sides.
-Broadway Buffer
Well at least we will not need to worry about that scheme.
Of course *I* have my own scheme for six new tracks to Brooklyn, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with existing lions.
We already have a Cranberry Tunnel,
I propose to add a Pineapple Tunnel and an Orange Tunnel.
The Pineapple tunnel is a four track/two level tunnel handling local and express trains from my new Myrtle-fifth Avenue Subway, and the Orange Tunnel Takes some local trains from both 5th Avenue and 9th avenue and runs them LOCAL on Fulton Street via the old Court Street tracks, however they come up Camden Place and miss the existing Transit Museum which is unaffected by this construction.
The Fulton Local tracks are then removed from the existing subway system and are exclusivly the use of the Local trains via the Orange Tunnel. This is because these trains use high speed technology and liner induction motors, and are not compatible with the older system.
This line is extended to Cross bay Blvd via 76th Street & etc.
Express Trains on The Fulton Line include the (A) to Lefferts the (E) to JFK and the Rockaways.
Rational: Existing Trunk Lines are FULL : Additional service is needed in the outlying areas. New Service needs new crossing and new trunks.
Elias
In two of my NYCT scenarios, I have a similar arrangement with the E train serving a new lower level of the Court Street Station (the transit museum, also allowing it to serve the outer tracks at Hoyt-Schemerhorn. In my main scenario, E service accesses Court Street from a "new route" south of WTC, where it proceeds via a lower level that continues southward beneath the current A and C Chambers STreet Station. In one of my alternate scenarios, E servcie connects to Court STreet and Hoyt-Schemerhorn via a more longer routing:
E service would proceed southbound via the Worth Street Connnector as per IND Second System plans, proceed into Brooklyn in Williamsburgh, through the South 4th STreet STation, and then proceed southwest towards Downtown Brooklyn via Myrtle Avenue, until it reaches an abrupt curve at Flatbush AVenue, bringing the tunnel under Tillary Street, following by a brief south trek down Clinton STreet, before turning east along Schemerhorn Street, to the lower level Court Street Station.
In both scenarios, southbound E service then proceeds downgrade via a short slightly seprentine tunnel that connects to the BMT Dekalb Avenue Station, and from there has access to the BMT Southern Division.
The BMT Southern Division alread has enough service (un less you are planning for the bridge to fall)... in any event the (E) and other existing trains are not needed there.
I suggest STOP trying to connect to existing stuff. THAT IS ALREADY SATURATED! Show me how you would build a whole NEW service.
Elias
I believe you can find plenty of information on that at the mta's website, section Capital Construction, Second Avenue Subway, newest file. Not that it means that the line - sorry, lion - will actually be built - ehhrrmmm, conceived, that is - since lots and lots of money - ...no, I'm not even going there ;-) - is required.
Connecting the E train to the Brighton Line, via the Fulton Street Line, would probably use a new 2 track subway under the Franlin ROW. The elevated Franklin Avenue and Park Place stations would be replaced, and the Botanic Garden station would need its platforms lengthened. The Prospect Park station would need little, if any major modifications.
So I would have the E and 2nd Av. on Fulton, The A replace the B as the primary Brighton Exp. (like they had wanted to do years ago, but it would still be 8th Av.) The C would b replace the M on the West End. The M would move to 95th. The B and C could then be rush hour specials. With the new cars, the B, C and D would use the same equipment, so they could swap back to their old terminals uptown. Middays, the B from 168 would have to terminate somewhere. Or the Q might wind up becoming the rush hour special. Weekends, I haven't decided yet.
Or the flipside; C, D and Q on Brighton, and A and B on West End.
More realistically, you would probably send only one 8th Av. service through DeKalb. The other then could stay on Fulton allowing one line each for Euclid, Lefferts and Rockaway.
The Airtrain/LIRR proposal already contemplates shared use with the subway. It isn't going to be 4 or 6 tubes, which you cannot justify. None of the existing East River subway crossings is more than 2 tubes. If they build this thing at all, it will be 2 tubes.
Secondly, do the Staten Island residents really want a tunnel to Brooklyn, then have to travel on the 4th Ave. line to Manhattan? If you're going to build a tunnel from Staten Island, connect it to either the J/M/Z at Broad, the N/R/W at Whitehall, or a continuation of the E. If the IRT was the right width, a connection to the new terminal at S/F would be perfect.
If we are gonna propose new subway tunnels, I'd propose one between Staten Island and Manhattan, for example a direct connection to the "South Ferry complex" via a Loop track of the SIRT. The SIRT at St. George would dive deep under the bay, head to Manhattan, and there would be a loop station (similar to WTC PATH) that has transfer connections to all three of the subway stations that serve South Ferry. Of course the SI-Ferry could still run as a tourist attraction, and as an alternative method to get home/work. The headways and trains-per-hour on this segment of the SIRT would have to be increased greatly. A schedule similar to the ferry will not do.
If we are gonna propose new transit tunnels, I'd propose a four-track into and out of Penn Station and New Jersey. This new tunnel would increase the flexibility and train congestion that the station suffers each day.
Since our current Governor is still bent on that connection between Atlantic Avenue and the Wall Street area, as a means to get to JFK Airport - they can get a new tunnel and station in Lower Manhattan. Instead of taking the A/C Cranberry tunnel away from the A/C lines and their large number of minority riders and giving away the access to a group of riders that are largely not minority, often with higher incomes -- for in comparison seldom used trips to the airport. Who ever thought of the idea of taking away a subway tunnel away from the A/C lines (for a routing through West 4th Street) that misses a major transfer point at Fulton Street - who ever thought up that idea has to be a major user of the sort of drugs that have to be illegal, or they had been released from the loony bin.
Considering how the current Atlantic Terminal stub-ends right up against the 2-3-4-5 lines at the Atlantic Avenue complex - the whole idea seems like a boondoggle of money to be wasted.
Just my thoughts.
Mike
If the number of connections is adequate, than why is there wide spread acceptance of the idea of extending the LIRR's Atlantic Terminal to Lower Manhattan? This is either proposed as LIRR service to Lower Manhattan, or in the RPA's Rx proposal.
The truth is that an additional 4 tracks of connectivity are seriously being discussed. At least 2 tracks will be built. I'm only proposing 2 tracks beyond the 4.
The idea of eventually running a Staten Island connection through Brooklyn is because wit wouldn't be that much longer of a trip, and it would increase system flexibility.
As for additional tunnels from new Jersey to Manhattan, I don't think that any of us will live to see that. No government has ever paid to build a trans-Hudson rail tunnel, and with New York's disaproval with the way the PA funds are allocated, I just don't see this happening. Especially with the commuter tax a thing of the past. Why would New York pay to make living in New Jersey more attractive?
Using the sunken tube scenario there would be a significant amount of cut and cover in both lower Manhattan and in Brooklyn to connect the river tunnels to the lines on both sides of the East River. Six individual shield bored tunnels would have less affect on the surface between the river bulkhaed and the points where these tunnels connect to the existing system.
John
Not really that difficult. WMATA did two discrete shield bored single track tunnels stacked under a 3 lane street to avoid surface impact to the building along the street above. I don’t know the exact measurement of top of rail to top of rail from one tunnel to the other, but I think it’s some where between 30’ (9.14m) and 40’ (12.19m). The geology along this section was so tight that the floor of the bottom tunnel had to excavated about 2’ bedrock under the sand and clay above the boundary of bedrock.
Stacking six discrete shield bored single track tunnels would have a pretty large distance from the top tunnel to the bottom tunnel. Paired tunnels at the same depth can be as close together as 20’ (7.62m) centers depending on the geology. Three over three is one option as will as two over two over two.
John
This would depend on the geology the tunnels would be going through. Hard clay and rock use one type of boring machine. Soft soil or sedimentary sand requires another type of boring machine. Another thing that also need to be considered is the water table and moisture density in the soft soil or sedimentary sand. Shield type of boring machine are more commonly used through soft soil or sedimentary sand for tunnels under water. These type of tunnels are usably lined with some form of segmented tunnel lining.
The stacked tunnels I mentioned in the previous post pumped grout in to the sands and clay to displace the water in the area outside the finished tunnel envelope. This stabilize the soil to prevent settling of the ground and structures on the surface from the lowering of the water table.
John
wayne
Okay... nice concept.
Two of the tracks would get the E train to the Court St. station, that is now used by the Transit Museum. The C and E would run this way, and use the currently abandoned outside tracks of the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station. There would be a new station at the tip of Manhattan. In addition, I envision the E train running down the Franklin Avenue ROW (which would have to be modified) and down the Brighton Line as a local, terminating at Ocean Avenue.
Ocean Pkwy station would have to be hugely modified too. The Q train would effectively become STR in this scenario, although that would entail running some B service nights and weekends.
The last two tracks would connect to Whitehall Street, allowing the W train to travel to Brooklyn in this new tunnel, and also hook up to a future lower level of the Nassau Street Loop, which would connect to the express tracks at Chambers Street.
The W not going to Brooklyn isn't a capacity problem. It's a simple matter of lack of demand. These 2 tracks wouldn't be particularly useful and your SI connector is a bit over the top really too.
4 tracks allowing WTC - Court St and SAS - Atlantic Av LIRR would be enough.
I'm not too sure about the priority of Atlantic Av either. That just seems to be moving a transfer from Flatbush to Jamaica, which doesn't really achieve very much, except having a load of reversing moves added to the already complicated junctions at Jamaica.
If I were to propose a plan, it would run something like this:
- From the SAS terminal at Hanover Sq under the East River (2 track tunnel) to connect with the Fulton St Lcl at Court St. (Maybe the Brighton could be connected).
- From a new deeper 8th Av Lcl WTC station curving downtown under Wall St (station with transfer to the 2-3 and J-M-Z lines), then running under Myrtle Av (stations Jay St (AFMR), Vanderbilt Av, Franklin - Bedford Avs, Marcy - Tompkins Avs (G), Broadway (JMZ), Wyckoff Av (LM), Summerfield St, 70th St, 80th St, Woodhaven Blvd), Hillside Av (Lefferts Blvd), then becoming the Hillside Exp.
In case I didn't make it clear, the idea is to have the E train run local on the Brighton Line, and terminate on the express tracks at Ocean Avenue. Q service should not be affected.
More details to come later.
But here's the flaw, look at this mistake in the flyer .pdf document. Since when is a station on the Concourse line, 3 blocks long?
Add one more station not mentioned (DUH!).
Prospect Avenue, N/B. This in addition to Simpson N/B, closes Tuesday at 10AM. The token booth ONLY will be shut down through November, with access to the platform via a HEET.
I'm not really sure why Prospect wasn't mentioned anywhere, but Clerks have been notified by a bulletin of the booth closing.
-Stef
At Freeman St where both sides are closing, those Clerks must go extra.
If I have to read in between the lines though, and the Clerk on WAA has to walk up and down the platform for 8 hours, I might say the Clerk was performing the duties of the Station Customer Assistant. Do you see where I'm going with this?
-Stef
I would think it was mentioned when we went to pick for Summer 2004.
As for WAA, I have no clue as to what those clerks will do, the cynic in me was talking before....
-Stef
In Washington it's a Saturday schedule, and us contractors who get slightly different holidays have to work in empty government buildings.
Da Hui
Chuck
That's SRNJ.
We Quail in our seats!
Chuck Greene
Just make beleve this film is for the TTC, how would you rate it then? hmm...
Coney Island/Stillwell Avenue-
-------------------------------
B D F M N QB Q W
About the only redeeming factor was the accurate portrayal of how the car was rigged for the getaway, according to the novel. TTC didn't seem to care that a window had to be busted out in order to fit the pipes together since the cars in the movie were about to be scrapped anyway.
Chuck Greene
I still need to see the original to this still -_-, does Target carry the original version of this on dvd/video?
I can get to one easly, thanks for meantioning that they got it!
Lt. Garber: "I'm listening!"
Lt. Petrone: "They're gonna fly the train to Cuba"
Lt. Garber: "You're a sick man, Rico!"
and when Garber finally meets Lt. Daniels in person (they had been communicating via radio for sometime) and discovers he's black... Garber goes, "Oh, I uh, I thought you were uh, like kinda shorter... ah, I don't know what I thought!"
and toward the beginning, when Lt. Garber (played by Walter Matthau) is giving a tour of the transit command center to some Tokyo subway brass, he assumes that they don't speak any English and although he provides an informative tour, he constantly slips in some insults, calling them "dummies" and what-not. Finally, after the hijackers announce themselves and everybody gets involved with that, one of the dispatchers (Frank Correll) notices them and yells out loud, "What the hell are all these Chinamen doing in here?!" and Garber goes, "Hey Johnny, will you take these monkeys up to 13" (to say goodbye to the MTA chairman), and then the one Japanese guy goes, in perfect English, "It's okay, Lietenant, I'm sure we can find it by ourselves!" while another one thanks him for an informative and exciting tour and they all bow as they leave... the look on Garber's face was damn near priceless as he hung his head in shame!
What a great movie...!
Plumber: How come that gate ain't locked?
Caz Dolowicz: Who's gonna steal a subway train?
Caz Dolowicz: Oh, come on. If I've got to watch my language just because they let a few broads
in, I'm going to quit. How the hell can you run a goddamn railroad without swearing?
An absolute classic on SO many levels. And the DVD is still available. :)
Took me MONTHS to even --find-- the DVD at a local vendor.
Most had the placeholder but no gig.
It never ceases to amaze me how people are willing to do the "thinkatude" required to GET a punchline, and yet cannot do the math when it comes to politics or other issues that are very serious. I suppose it's true what I was told by politicians when I worked for them - "insanity is the best policy." :)
Tak WIFE, please. (grin)
Frank: Christ, to hear you plead with that chickenshit makes me ashamed to be an American.
Garber: Go away, will you, Frank? Go play with your trains.
Well, I think the 4 and 5 also used R21/R22s...but I think the real reason R22s (and they were all R22s, at least the 3 cars whose numbers can be made out clearly: 7339, 7439, 7434) were used is due to the fact that the script called for the storm door window to be open (when the 2 kids in the beginning were railfanning, when Mr. Grey was shooting back at the police snipers, etc.), and everyone knows it is impossible to get that round storm window open on an R-17! :)
Also, in my opinion, I liked the ABC-TV movie version that played a few years ago starring Edward James Olmos better. :)
And I think you're the only one who likes the ABC remake of "Pelham 123." Nearly everyone I know regards it as a trainwreck, pun intended.
BTW, you can pick up the DVD of Pelham 123 for 13 bucks american and used for 7 or 8 bucks.
Your pal,
Fred
Hollywood is so orginality bankrupt that almost every new movie is a remake of a title or TV show done 30 or 40 years ago (better).
The number of makeovers issued lately that went right to video is legendary.
Not one of the remakes is as good as the original. That's a hard fact.
I felt that the first Batman movie was too dark (if Gotham City was as dark as portraied, half the inhabitants would have committed suicide.)
Jack Nicholson's Joker steals that one.
The one with George Clooney as Bruce Wayne/Batman was the best of the three, as he portraied the character as Bob Kane envisioned.
Adam West was better than Michael Keaton but I'd give the edge to the 1989 film as the best Batman version. Danny Devito as the Penguin in the "Batman Returns" film was cool but the rest of the sequels deserve to be dumped into the nearest trash can.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The fact that the most of the scene was done unintentionally (except for that lady moving the grocery cart), added with the grime and darkness the system harborbed back then made it into what it is today. No remake should never be attempted.
Hijackers:
Blue: Alexander Siddig(Dr Bashir on DS9)
Green: Carl Reiner
Gray: Quentin Tarantino or George Clooney
Brown: John Malkovich
TA Police, Command Center, NYPD, and City Gov't:
Lt Clive Prescott: Avery Brooks
Captain Rico Patrone: Jerry Stiller
IRT Trainmaster Joseph Lazzaro: James Gandolfini
DCI Eduardo Martinez: Esai Morales
Train Operator: James Avery
Conductor: Matthew Broderick(keep it in the family)
TA Patrolman at 28 St: Matt Damon
Mayor: Gene Hackman
Deputy Mayor: Sidney Potier
Police Comissioner: Dennis Franz
This is of course a small sample, and I'm always open for any improvement. Can't think of anyone that can fit the Grand Central Tower cast but it needs two men, two women. And not to mention the hostages. But in this version, ol' Capt. Patrone guesses it right: "They're gonna fly the train to Cuba" although we know they'll end up somewhere else.
Jimmy :)
I would like to see Michael Moore do a documentary on film about the art of railfans or something similar. He could possibly cast Olmos in a role just as riveting as impersonating an ex-Bolivian math teacher. :)
--Mark
(I've already set down the appropriate equipment timers and assigned an SP tape).... 0:)
Taking Pictures of Pelham One Two Three, and will have Walter Matthau going around busting railfans.
1. Who would win
...and...
2. Which kind of tunnel layout would be advantageous for both sides?
an R10 on the tv, brahs!!
That *is* part of Mass Transit here in our city, all the more so since it links with RAIL on both ends of its run.
You may even speak about on tick, though it is off topik. but polyticks ain't allowed sort of.
Of course polyticks is part of transit, but not all of it is.
Elias
The *rest* of the Story...
Why, on BROADWAY, of course! : )
Mark
June Metrorail Ridership shatters records
More people took trips on Metrorail during June than during any other month in Metrorail’s 28-year history. Ridership for the month was 17,649,609 and averaged 706,557 riders per weekday.
During June, ridership exceeded 700,000 on 16 days, and it marked the first time in Metro history that the average weekday ridership exceeded the 700,000 mark. Typical average weekday ridership for the fiscal year was 650,000.
Last month also saw the highest ridership day in Metrorail history on June 9 when 850,636 trips were taken on the same day there was a funeral procession through downtown Washington, DC, for former President Ronald Reagan. The following day on June 10, when Reagan’s casket was lying in state at the U.S. Capitol, 763,121 people took trips on Metrorail, the fourth highest ridership in the system’s history.
Seven days last month made Metro’s “Top Ten” ridership days list.
“The ridership totals for June were tremendous,” said Metro CEO Richard A. White. “Metro matters to this region, yet we typically see a spike during June as the region sees an influx of visitors riding along with our regular customers. We can only speculate that the high price of gasoline may also be making an impact, however we have no way of measuring that possibility.
“As more people continue to turn to Metro and greater numbers continue to depend on us, it becomes even more important for our funding partners to recognize the importance of maintaining our aging infrastructure,” Mr. White said. “We are at a crossroads where our transit system needs $1.5 billion to allow us to sustain our service levels and system reliability to meet future demands for service. We need additional capital funding to modernize our assets, to purchase additional buses and railcars and ensure an adequate level of security. Without that capital funding, severe overcrowding will eventually erode our system, driving commuters back onto the region’s already congested roads.”
Metro’s top ten Ridership Days list
Rank
Date
Ridership Event
1
June 9, 2004
850,636
Reagan State Funeral Ceremony
2
January 20, 1993
811,257
Clinton’s First Inauguration
3
October 16, 1995
804,146
Million Man March
4
June 10, 2004
763,121
Reagan State Funeral Ceremony
5
July 30, 2003
745,627
Assemblies Of God Convention
and World Cup Soccer
6
June 16, 2004
738,747
No Event
7
June 24, 2004
734,125
No Event
8
June 15, 2004
733,247
No Event
9
June 17, 2004
730,772
No Event
10
June 23, 2004
727,823
No Event
BOSTON, Mass. - Protesters gathered at Park Street station during the morning rush hour yesterday to condemn the MBTA's upcoming random bag-check policy, handing out leaflets, singing songs, and urging riders to resist what they say is an incursion on Constitutional rights, according to a story in the Boston Globe today. The T Riders Union, the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts, the National Lawyers Guild, the Arab-American Anti-Defamation Committee, and several other groups formed a new coalition, the Safe and Free T Alliance, to rally support against the policy.
The groups are planning a lawsuit against the random searches, alleging that such a practice violates the Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable search and seizure and may lead to racial and ethnic profiling. Opponents also say they don't think randomly searching bags will improve security.
''The T's going to have a real problem with this, as people realize it's fake security and a [public relations] exercise, and what their rights are and what they're giving up," said Nancy Murray of the ACLU. ''Where will it end? Are we going to start searching cars?"
Michael Mulhern, general manager of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, said the agency had a ''compelling public interest" in instituting the policy, which is to begin in a few days. ''We had half a dozen lawyers look at it," he said. ''We are very comfortable with the justification" leading up to the Democratic National Convention.
The MBTA plans to send teams of officers to randomly selected subway and commuter rail stations, to stop individuals on a random basis and inspect their bags before they enter the system. During convention week, that will intensify, and T police ''will be getting some help" to cover more stations, Mulhern said. In addition, any rider with large bags during that week will be subject to automatic search and no large bags will be allowed on the Orange Line.
Protesters performed skits mocking the policy and sang new lyrics to the tune of ''Charlie on the MTA," including the chorus, ''We are still not safe beneath the streets of Boston - it's the plan that's wasting our time." About 1.1 million people use the transit system daily. Several riders interviewed yesterday said they had no problem with the policy.
''Here are my bags," said Andover resident Rob Hoff, 42, who works in Cambridge. He held out two tote bags. ''I don't want to die in a T station."
''I'm not sure it's OK, but I'm not intimidated by it," said probation officer Elizabeth Davis, 38, who plans on riding her bicycle to work at a downtown courthouse during convention week. ''If it's safety [they want], then they need to look at the idea of shutting the entire thing down."
Shannon Gracia, 27, who takes a bus, commuter rail, and the subway from New Bedford to her health services job at Suffolk University, said she was subjected to an extensive search before a recent flight to Florida and found it embarrassing to have her private items gone through. But she said she was willing to be searched for security. ''There's things you have to weigh. If it's your safety and your city's safety, it's worth it," she said. ''If you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be an issue."
term coined by our very own Amanda
I'm sure there are those amoung you out there that whenever you were looking at a Movie or TV show and saw a shot of the NYC Subway or Commuter Rail, you suddenly got this burning desire to find out what part of the system that was and the location.
Well I have a challenge for those who care to indulge me on this!! A few years ago a Movie came out called "FRESH" and it has a very nice daytime shot of what I believe is a train of R-42 cars making a sharp turn from a set of mailine tracks that are elevated.
After a lot of pausing and freeze framing and restudying my current subway map, I have long since figured it out. I don't expect an answer right away, but this is now out there for anyone who cares to take me up on this!!
Frank Hicks
They have all NY BVE stuff, including trains and routes.
Though there offline at the moment, keep the link as reference to check back.
Since Ed Yee did that car, anyone who needs it can find it here:
http://r68a_5200.tripod.com/cars/r68a.htm
And I'm pleased to report that the new ARNINE for BVE is coming along NICELY. :)
I started on a BVE arnine a little over a year ago, got the train.dat file done and running nicely (sounds and everything) but never got a chance to get to Branford again to do what I *really* wanted to do, take photographs in the cab and use THAT. Ed Yee (who did the nicely animated R68A cab) decided to pick up on it and is running with it now. He's also tweaked up the train.dat and is working now on the controllers and animating that like he did with the R68A.
It's going to be VERY nice. :)
He still has to work on the air pressure guage, but I'm confident he'll get it done and come out with the greatest R9 BVE will ever have. ;)
At least we ain't putting one of those cheezy red-tipped plastic Sears Craftsman jobbies in there. That would require the administration of a beating with a shoe slipper. Heh. I sent him back the artwork night before last indicating the front lefty corner on the stand where the reverser key lug goes and suggested moving the butthole and handle a bit forward and to the right (the controller hangs over the side on those and runs along the centerline parallel with the windshield) but otherwise he's got it nailed.
Should be interesting to see how he fits the indication fairy over the air gauge and whether or not he gets the wiper blade handle in there. The gauge itself looked wonderful. Sadly, BVE won't allow him to get the circular fetish in the needles themselves, but hey - if that's the only thing left to whine over, happy clams indeed.
But as to that black plastic on the brake handle - Joe Korman went and put a Schwinn handlebar rubber on his, but that ain't company issue. We were given gloves and a bare cast iron handle in the field. :)
Hayos
It's a great way to get people out of cars and onto trains for much of their trip.
I also helped you, it aint very nice of you to thank him and exclude me.
Order Yours NOW!
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jimlynch
I have Preview turned off in my Outlook Inbox.
If there is a message I want to see, I can double click on it.
Some email is filtered from known senders into other folders where preview is used.
I also have the Spamfighter plug-in running. That nabs about 40 spams daily. That is after my server, five black hole services, a killfile, and a spam trap have gone after them.
I'd ditch Outlook, but it does do other things for me. What the worth of them is I am not sure.
Elias
All I have to do is check the Qurb folder, if any is real mail that's new, I click Qurb's Approve button and "Presto!!!!", the sender is added to the Whitelist. Everything else is tagged and deleted.
Thrusday thru Sunday are supposed to be the big ones for spam, but today - a grand total of 4.
Spam Cop blocked 546
NJABL blocked 22
Spamhaus blocked 83
SORBS blocked 1
The Kill File blocked 2
11 were blocked for subject and date errors
For a Total of 665 rejected by the mail server and not eliverd to anybody's inbox.
Another 21 failed on the content filters and were dumped into the bit bucket for further examination and redelivery to the intended users.
Another 42 were trapped by Spamfighter and removed from my Inbox.
They gotta do something about spam and other trojans and viruses on the internet to curtail this stuff.
Elias
A LOT come from a link on the Baltimore Blast Fan Club site, which supports the Baltimore Blast Indoor Soccer Team. My wife is the Membership person for the Fan Club and the link is for membership info. The link is to our real mail address and we can't shut it down because we get maybe 1 or 2 real membership inquiries. The rest is 100% spam thanks to the bots that troll the web.
As to the government doing something to stop spam and then other "goodies", forget it. A court ruled that it's "free speech". BULL!!!!
Da Hui
If you spent some time on NYC subway trains, you'd know the battery seller "catch-phrase" of "not 3, not 4, not 5...8!" Dewd ... gotta get out more often. :)
----------------------------------------------------------------
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My trip almost ended after we started, because some brain-dead idiot nearly drove into the path of 3516 at Haddon and MLK [Mickle] Blvd., this asshole literally made a left turn so near the tracks, the operator slammed on the brakes. I saw a few people in the doorway get tossed around, but there were no injuries. The train was the 4:11 out of Walter Rand, and it was PACKED. First, the train had a lot of the people who went to the Aquarium/Battleship/Tall Ships, plus it caught a lot of the early rush out of Philly. The train was full all the way up to Trenton [Despite our near-miss and some slow running, we were only 2 minutes behind schedule the entire trip]. At Trenton, I got off, and took a pit stop, then got on the 5:30 departure. The southbound trip [on the same car 3516] was a little emptier than usual because the NEC train was late getting in to Trenton. But this train got crowded quickly as a lot of concert goers got on at Bordentown, Roebling, Florence, and both Burlington stations. By the time we got back into Camden. the train was just as packed going in as it was going out. Only a few got off at WRTC, but a horde more got on to go to the Tweeter Center.
I noticed the other three trains coming in [thanks to the EXTREMLY PUTRID schedule adherence of the 403 bus!]
The ones with two cars were full, but the single-cars were NYC like[packed in like sardines]. During the run from Trenton, I noticed that the schedule used 16 out of the 20 car fleet on 14 trains [12 single cars, 2 2-car trains].
I have some observations:
1] They better get better signaling in Camden at Haddon Ave. that is an accident waiting to happen thanks to the idiot motorists. That was the second time I was on a train that could have hit some idiot driver, two weeks ago a RiverLINE train I was on almost hit a 18 wheeler making a illegal turn at Haddon and MLK.
2] Some of these people need to take their time with the ticket machines. The nitwits always come to the station at the last minute then spazz out when the machines take too long to spit out the ticket.
3] I think NJT needs to get more cars [about 7 to 10 more cars] to give them some breathing room and run more 2-car trains. The trips I was on the cars were PACKED TIGHTLY.
4] With the events going on, the line has proved its mettle, the ones who rode to the Tweeter Center got to their seats while traffic was backed up onto and along I-676, those people lost out on some choice lawn seats!
5] I would like to congratulate the manager who made the smart decision to keep the line running late, especially today! Maybe there's hope for these people yet, and maybe they will get Conrail to push back their schedule so the line can run late every night.
This is good news. I never would have suspected those small towns to support the RiverLine but I was wrong. In fact, I thought once the novelty wore off, all those folks would go right back to their cars. It's good to hear the RiverLine is packed which explains why you don't hear the anti-rail crowd talking about all the empty trams going to Trenton!
Can you imagine if there was a Mall like Newport center right by the acquarium?
Give it some time - I'm positive there'll be some kind of commercial development ALL AROUND that place!
I'm very glad to hear about how well the RiverLine is doing! Let's hope it stays this way...
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
IAWTP.
Riding 1 particular consist on 15 June, from Trenton to Tweeter, the lead car
of our consist was OOS "due to vomit" and this subjected all geese to be sardined
in the SECOND of the two-car tram.... at the start of the PM rush.
After dumping at Tweeter, the set ran light back to the yard....
More cars (and more trams) would indeed be a GOOD move...
we surely left
a handful of geese behind on that trip.. and they were NONE too happy about
having to wait another 30.
Click to listen
How can you defend C/R's now? You can't even have audible manual announcements on even the best of the subway's PA systems.
Lucklily I rotated my mic to be perpendicular to the speaker so that it wouldn't be destroyed by the full blast of the C/R's audio assault...
Da Hui
Now if NYCTA could institute a more flexible and accurate system, then I'd have no problem with the systems. It is inexcusable that NYCTA cannot have their automated announcement system completely up to date with the operations of the actual system. I'm not talking programing in every little GO, but when changes happen months or even years after service to certain parts has been terminated or changed, then something is fucked up.
What? BBD and KRC aren't the ones that update the announcements, the MTA does. Increases in the number up AAS updates has very noticible since the vendors were removed from the process
--You have trains annoucing transfers that disaappeared a while back,
Which train? All R142 and R142a cars have the latest AAS software
--you have trains which merely squeal
Where?
-- or which announce completely wrong lines and stations.
Has a train done this in the past 3 years? Most of the time, if the Automated announcements system is screwed up, it's the C/R's fault for being too lazy to correct it, and in the case of the "stuck" R142A 6 trains, it's because of C/R's which leave the terminal without setting their signs up correctly- Again, an example of C/R laziness.
There is one c/R on the B express that is supper
He is the guy who says Loooooooooooooong Island Railroad at atlantic ave
There are some good C/Rs out there. IT's just that those who continually fantasize about the ladies doing the automated announcements fail to explore the other subway lines to hear what they're missing. They're just getting too accustomed to the mostly guaranteed perfection they hear.
The only thing I still have a gripe with is that the majority of C/R's still make the station announcement after the doors are open.
Replace () with <>
Like This:
You may look at my source code to see how I did it.
(Nice Pics BTW)
Elias
To see pics, view post before this one.
Nice image posting Elias.
Both of u have a great 4th of July.
-Chris
Trying to save money, Metro has halved the size of its late-night trains, forcing riders to sprint along the platform, only to find they can't get on the overcrowded cars. Here are some suggestions for other ways the Metro system can raise or save money:
• Discontinue all Monday service after 7 p.m. Come on -- who goes out on Monday nights?
• Each seat will easily accommodate more passengers if people will sit on each other's laps. Raise revenue for Metro -- and make a new friend!
• At Metro Center station, install a dunking booth where, for $1 a throw, customers can try to plunge Metro Board Chairman Robert J. "No Problem" Smith into a tank of frigid water. Hell, make it $2 a throw. People will pay it.
• Problem: In cold weather, bulky coats reduce the number of passengers who can be shoehorned onto a train. Solution: $1 per trip Winter Surcharge.
• After waiting 40 minutes on the platform for a train, would-be passengers grow faint with hunger. Why not stock otherwise-useless Metro clerk booths with an array of snacks, to be sold at exorbitant markups?
• Turn off the air conditioning. Oh, wait, they've already done that.
• Metro should begin referring to passengers as "applicants." Every time a rider actually manages to cram into a car, he or she will feel like a winner!
• Why should your heftier neighbors get to occupy more space for the same fare? Charge by the pound!
• Reserve "premium seats" in each car. Then follow the example of the Redskins by charging a 10-year seat license fee, a parking fee (be sure to ban walking to the station) and a mandatory catering fee.
• Stop running trains to Virginia until they remember who won the Civil War.
• End royalty payments to the "Doors closing" lady.
• Look at all that wasted space near the ceiling! Go the Full Tokyo and install luggage racks to stow children and post-concert crowd surfers.
• Stop trying to fix the escalators: Lay off the maintenance crews, stop buying new parts, freeze them in place and call them "stairs." Which they are most of the time, anyway.
• Put a shingled roof thing over the recycling containers and relabel them "wishing wells."
• Open a bar car. Then you can really pack 'em in.
• So far, guidance from mass-transit officials in Bucharest and Calcutta has worked perfectly. Continue to model Metro's system on theirs.
-- Peter Kaufman,
with staff contributions
• At Metro Center station, install a dunking booth where, for $1 a throw, customers can try to plunge Metro Board Chairman Robert J. "No Problem" Smith into a tank of frigid water. Hell, make it $2 a throw. People will pay it.
Make it battery acid, and people will pay ten bucks a throw.
• Problem: In cold weather, bulky coats reduce the number of passengers who can be shoehorned onto a train. Solution: $1 per trip Winter Surcharge.
Make everyone ride naked, with clothing carried in separate baggage cars. You'll get even more people in a car, plus no worried about concealed weapons/bombs etc.
• Stop running trains to Virginia until they remember who won the Civil War.
Who won? Could someone remind me?
• Stop trying to fix the escalators: Lay off the maintenance crews, stop buying new parts, freeze them in place and call them "stairs." Which they are most of the time, anyway.
Just hire NYC escalator-repair workers.
Just hire NYC escalator-repair workers.
That would cost more then what WMATA is spending now.
John
That worked for years at SEPTA!
Are the R-30's going to Nimco or Mexico (like the M-1's)?
til next time
til next time
-Stef
Bumpy ride though which is why it wasn't done often, but it can be done.
On the IRT side, anything from the R17 on except the R142/R142A can run together. Even the R62 and R62A are really just better made R17s.
:-) Andrew
Photo by The 795 aka - Trevor Logan
I don't believe the 2 R16's at CI are operable. However, the museum R16 should be, as should the museum R11. Find a working R30 pair, and we got one heck of fantrip!
til next time
Even if they aren't going on the rails, I'm willing to settle with the Museum R16-Museum R11 pairing. Enough of the Arnines!
til next time
Do you like talking out of your ass? If you don't know something to be true, DON'T SAY IT.
Meanwhiles, you still havent answered why the Museum R30 cannot operate sans mate??
That's his perrogative. But he's hinting that what I've been told is wrong. Given the source, I feel comfortable that it isn't. I hope it is, because that means there might be hope for 3184 after all.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
And yes they did. I rode them on the (LL) back in the 80's. Two classes of graffiti scarred equipment with different seating and railfan windows. You had to have been there.
Bill "Newkirk"
Since that contract is with the Long Island Rail Road, I doubt it.
What about #3005 ?
Maybe P.S. 248 to replace that R-16 ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Well, the other two 3 cars sets *are* functional.
Come back to the (C), R110b!!!
-Julian
I'm guessing it's a B car...
\\Julian
If it doesn't work then you can see it at the Riders Diaries topic here
http://www.straphangers.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000168;p=1#000002
I'm not really sure, but it could be a B-car
\\Julian
avid
avid
-Broadway Buffer
Have a good Fourth
GOOD LUCK ON HUNGRY CHARLES HARDY 2 MORROW MY COUSIN
Unfortunately, it isn't an express and it hasn't been going to Queens, but it is an interesting idea. Back in the day, you had the Fulton-Nassau Express for those from north Brooklyn to get to Coney Island. A G express could pick up people in north Brooklyn and the Queens Blvd corridor and then rocket them down to the shore. It just might work.
D/M/Q via Brighton
B/W via West End!
Robert
Da Hui
F rerouted to Hoyt-Schermerhorn Sts
G replaces F between Hoyt-Schermerhorn Sts and Stillwell Av
Weekend, 12:01 AM Sat to 5 AM Mon, Jul 10 - 12, 17 - 19 & 24 - 26-Click here for details.
Have a happy 4th of July!
-Chris
Wouldent it be a better G/O to use the B's 60 Foot cars and do the chrystie st thing instead?
My question is why don't they simply route the Brooklyn D to the Broadway BMT?
Some info: the C/K lines are really one line just that after Layfayette St. they split off from each other to become seperate lines [8th Av local is of this sequence: E,C,E,K]
C - Culver rush hour express
E - Culver local {ie: replaces the F}
K - speaks for itself
V - to Lefferts [till 1am as shuttle service runs from Lefferts to Euclid and would also mean the G would be dealyed from entering Queens Blvd from 9pm to 11pm]
A - to Far Rockaway all times
That's mostly it otherwise it's the same as the current map
Have a happy 4th of July!
-Chris
Ah I think I reailized the problem - the .GIF was supposed to be uppercased - damn these uploads and minute details
Anyways it should be ok now unless GeoCities is shut down for the millionth time
Until they put the third track into service, Bronxville and Tuckahoe have the distinction of being 2-track stations with 21 revenue trains passing through in the peak hour, plus another 4 or 5 non-revenue trains. Does any 2-track station in the US (say, on the LIRR) have more commuter trains than that?
3rd rail is not installed yet.
Temporary platforms at Bronxville and Tuckahoe covering the new track have to be removed.
I see three things contributing to this being a lengthly project. First of all, they're doing it with a small crew, probably to keep the cost down.
Secondly, they're doing it without any impact on rush hour service. Bronxville and Tuckahoe have some very long trains (including the only 12 car train I've see on all of MNCR) - you can't fill those up fast enough to avoid delaying trains behind unless you have elaborate temporary platforms.
And third, presumably to get community support in the first place, they only work one 8 hour shift.
And if I recall hearing, the 2nd place was some japanese lady with I think 35 hot dogs.
If you mean the chinese lady, that was said on tv, but I think it was for the last one, not this one.
If you mean rail wise, yes they are. Why you think they got multiple modes of transport intergrated into 1 network, with different providers. Face it, there better. Heck, they got something called Passnet which allows entry to verious systems meantioned. And I think Suica does the same.
Just imagine NY getting its first Maglev system, that'd be awesome.
Exactly.
And the unified system I heard of. The JR system uses iO cards, and I think the unified system is also around the iO name, iU? :P
Source
I was talking about this year's contest though.
You can help by reading. You dont say something, miss what I said already, and say you cant help it. It makes no sence whatsoever. I read everything in a topic so I atleast know whats going on.
And I'm not supposed to? :/
"Eric "Badlands" Booker, a 6-foot-4, 400-pound subway conductor from Long Island who came in fifth with 27 dogs, said he and the other competitive eaters were determined to unseat the Japanese. "
Now this is the kind of guy who should win these competitions...
And, I brought this thread back on topic!
www.forgotten-ny.com
If they did, all contestants would probably eat half of what they normally would. I guess soaking the buns makes the hots dogs go down faster and not to choke on a dry bun.
I did notice the Japanese guy was dropping parts of the saturated buns, so he didn't really eat the entire hot dog.
burp !
Bill "Newkirk"
We went to a restaurant in Amarillo, Texas, while driving cross country a couple of years ago that offered a free 72 ounce steak dinner if you could eat it in an hour. The only hitch is you have to eat it on stage in front of everybody with a timer going and you must eat the whole dinner, not just the steak. We were told that the biggest truck drivers driving through rarely win it. There is a 1 in 7 success ratio and size or gender usually has nothing to do with it. Here is the contest page on the restaurant's website.
Jimmy ;)
And Hebrew National isn't nearly as big as a Nathan's. o.o
Bill "Newkirk"
The returning (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
David
"Eric "Badlands" Booker, a 6-foot-4, 400-pound subway conductor from Long Island who came in fifth with 27 dogs, said he and the other competitive eaters were determined to unseat the Japanese."
lemme know i can make ya a zip file of them
http://www.htmlcenter.com
go there then at the end of the url put -- /jetta/train.zip
enjoy :)
shoot me now
better yet - take my bve for a week
hehehe sorry!!!
The observation -- while driving on the Cross Island Pkwy yesterday morning, I noticed a set of M7's at Belmont Park. Upon checking the schedules, they are running a couple of trains from Penn to Queens Village (where riders for Hempstead branch stations can change for busses) during the reverse peak. Since these trains can't then get back west (without tying up the main line doing a reverse move) and can't go further east (two tracks both going west on the Main, and one track going west on the Hempstead), they pull them off into Belmont -- I guess until rush hour is over.
The question -- With single track operation from Bellerose east, they apparently aren't able to clear space at Hempstead station (since they can't send trains back west). As a result a couple of rush hour trains were eliminated for the summer and then -- at the end of the rush hour -- there is a train that ends its run at Garden City. My question is -- what becomes of this train? Do they send it back west (there appears to be enough time to send it west with perhaps a follower or two before the next eastbound) or do they pull it east onto the section of the Garden City Secondary that has a third rail?
CG
He demonstrated a "rip" in the transfer and said don't let them do that!
I think I was hassled for no reason. I did nothing wrong, as far as I know.
Chuck Greene
R-32.
Stay tuned....
Chuck Greene
But let us know what was up, something about you're story makes it sound like a common scam.
It does seem very odd though...I'd say it may be a depot thing, but the R runs from Frankford, not Midvale.
Transfer
Passengers should purchase a transfer if their one-way trip traveling in the same direction on a bus, subway, or trolley requires more than one route.
Transfers are $0.60. A transfer ticket must be purchased when you board the first vehicle of your trip from either the Operator (for buses and trolleys) or the Cashier (for the Market-Frankford, Broad Street, and Subway-Surface Lines).
A re-transfer can be purchased for an additional $0.60. Only two transfers are permitted per each one-way trip.
Transfers and re-transfers are not valid for trips near the passenger’s point of origin.
This still doesn't tell me what a proper re-transfer is...
On a side note, TT coach 874 is parked in the side yard with all the rotting to be scrapped Neoplans at FTC. The Neos have had their fareboxes removed and "SEPTA" over the front door blacked out with spray paint.
I know this should go on Bus-Talk!
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
A day of misconceptions and errors for me.
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
R-32.
And if it was LA, you'd be laying on the ground while they beat you with their Mag-Lites...
That's news to me. Read the instructions on the back. I know I still got one laying around but not sure where, but transfers are not valid without coupon on bottom. The punched holes(besides shouldn't have 3 of them punched, unless tha'ts something new), mean that's the bus you came from. If i take an 84 bus to the 58(or 14), the 84 will be punched. I transfer. The driver trashes it and gives me a new one. If you keep that transfer and get off to get on the 24, at either bustleton or the boulevard(not ftc) and i hand the driver a transfer from teh 84, i'd be kicked off the bus for non-payment and theft of services(jailable in other states).
In other words, I believe you were set-up, but luckily you were let through. But there's something about that whole situation that either sounds fishy, or there's a problem with what those drivers are doing. Something ain't right.
Atleast the SEPTA clerk let him through the gates of the holy rail.
Regards,
Chuck Greene
Or....... maybe the driver was nearing the end of his rounds
and ran OUT of stock paper transfers??
Retransfer:
Retransfers will be valid up to 1 hour from the time cut on the face of transfer upon proper payment of fare.
The little stub piece says:
COUPON (DATE)
-------------
One Transfer
Hope this helps you out.
Thanks, Chris.
Chuck Greene
And punching three routes to one transfer sounds like one of Victory or Southern's blunders, not Comly's...
Um, you wrote "Thanks, Chris", are you refering to you as Chris, since your next post doesnt say that.
I aint Chris if thats what you meant, I'm Steven.
And glad I could help.
Next time, , If I take that routing from FTC, I'm going to use the "R", and then the "65", transferring at Wissahicken Transfer Ctr.
I'm going to start off giving the "R" driver a token and 60 cents and get a regular (with coupon attached) transfer. Then I'll do the normal thing, give the transfer to the 65 driver. No problems this way and no BS!
Thanks, everybody, for your help.
Chuck Greene
Ben F. Schumin :-)
From: Charles Greene
To: BILL Septa Driver
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 7:09 AM
Subject: Re-Transfers
Hi Bill,
How are you! When you ask for a re-transfer and pay your 60 cents, doesn't the operator rip off the coupon at the bottom and give you your transfer back? YES
So the answer is YES.
Case closed!
Chuck Greene
Another thing is the rulig that a transfer is only good to go for a maximum of three vehicles... well, suppose you need to get from Oxford Valley Mall to Pottstown or Royersford? That's the 14, then MFL, then 100, then 93 or 99... OOPS, you can only go 14/MFL/100 on one transfer. 14/R/124 (125)/99 is just as many routes and takes longer, and 14/R/27/98/93? Forget it...
I KNOW most of you would say toss a Regional Rail Line into the mix, but who really wants to go OUT of their way deeper into Bucks County to get the R7 or R3, and then wait for up to an hour, where within that hour, they could be close to Frankford Terminal? And then have potentially ANOTHER hour to wait for an R6 train into Norristown...
Getting from Newtown to anywhere that is NOT Center City is just as bad without the R8 around... That's 130 to 14, 20, or 58 to MFL... you've expired the transfer's use, so let's hope you didn't need to get to Whitman Plaza, Springfield Mall, or anywhere the MFL won't drop you. Mind you, Pier 70 is exempt, since the 25 waits at FTC, but that's about it.
SEPTA's got this complex that anyone needing more than three routes for one trip would be better of with a Transpass or TrailPass. They apparently kow little of the cracked infrastructure that is their system at times.
Chuck
Demand must exist for such service before it can be considered by NJT, who go where they are wanted (as they often remind people who write to them). Not to mention, the tracks are not owned by NJT or NJDOT (IIRC) south of Winslow, making it that much harder to restart service. Further, there is Cape May Seashore Lines, whose existence would face being trampled out were NJT to restore Philly-Cape May passenger rail.
The Cape May Seashore Lines would love to run passengers between Cape May and NJT's Hammonton station.
If it happens, it won't happen soon.
Also, CMSL has expressed great interest in extending their line far enough as to let CMSL passengers transfer for the NJT ACL to either Atlantic City or Philadelphia. Whether this is a reasonable proposal, however, I cannot say.
As for Wildwood and Ocean City, forget it. Most of the Ocean City branch, including the swing bridge over the inland waterway, is gone, as is the entire branch between Wildwood Junction and Wildwood. Parts of the rights-of-way in Ocean City and Wildwood have been redeveloped, as well.
The car is apparently an old retired LIRR car still in gray paint with a blue stripe. It still looked fairly good although rust rot was visable.
The MTA LIRR herald was still quite clear on the car side, but no number was visable. There was the number 918 in stick-on numbers located on the end, just above the anticlimber.
wayne
I will try to find out.
Mark
Most of the WMATA cars were or are capable of traveling at speeds in excess 90 MPH. The Rohr cars when delivered were tested to speeds over 90 MPH. I was on one doing 81 MPH in June of 1975 before the system opened. Back in the mid 1980s there were some changes in the civil maximum speed limits to allow revenue trains to operate as high as 80 MPH on some section of the system. And many did in regularly scheduled service. These maximum speed limits have sense been lowered back to the original maximum of 75 MPH.
So that answer to flxiblemetro question is, capable of 80 MPH, yes. In normal daily regularly scheduled service no.
John
wayne
tho sometimes i think its too fast - esp crossing i85
Arthur Thomas
Broad Street Subway cars regularly go to 64 MPH on the express. I think I've seen them go a bit higher on a downhill, but 64 MPH otherwise seems tops.
Regards,
Jimmy
Jimmy
Yes. It continues through Washington en route to Phillipsburg. In Washington, you can still see where the original DL&W main line turned northwest towards Belvidere, Manuka Chunk and Portland, PA (where the bridge across the Delaware still stands). The old Washington station is located where the two lines diverge (follow Railroad Avenue south from state route 57).
Extending service to Phillipsburg on this line was part of the NJ Transit "2020 Wish List" of some years ago. In fact, the NJT station at Phillipsburg was built by the DL&W and used as a union station between the DL&W and the CNJ.
being we have been discussing the Lackawanna Cut-Off service proposal as of late
Understood. IIRC, there is an existing rail route between NJ and Scranton via the Poconos; via the DL&W Bangor & Portland branch and into Easton.
• At Metro Center station, install a dunking booth where, for $1 a throw, customers can try to plunge Metro Board Chairman Robert J. "No Problem" Smith into a tank of frigid water. Hell, make it $2 a throw. People will pay it.
Make it battery acid, and people will pay ten bucks a throw.
• Problem: In cold weather, bulky coats reduce the number of passengers who can be shoehorned onto a train. Solution: $1 per trip Winter Surcharge.
Make everyone ride naked, with clothing carried in separate baggage cars. You'll get even more people in a car, plus no worried about concealed weapons/bombs etc.
• Stop running trains to Virginia until they remember who won the Civil War.
Who won? Could someone remind me?
• Stop trying to fix the escalators: Lay off the maintenance crews, stop buying new parts, freeze them in place and call them "stairs." Which they are most of the time, anyway.
Just hire NYC escalator-repair workers.
Just hire NYC escalator-repair workers.
That would cost more then what WMATA is spending now.
John
That worked for years at SEPTA!
Did any (dumb as nails) Gun Hill employee recently trollope into 100st (i think), to continue their campaign of poor taste, or is deferred maintainance sweeping the TA by force?
Seriously, who expects this type of crap on a Manhattan bus...
On a slightly better note, I had the pleasure (Yes, that's right) of boarding 5396 last night on the BX12. Immediately apparent from the outside of the bus was that it actually had its OEM interior numbers intact, and unscathed (which is very very unusual on Gun Hill bus). All the lights worked, INCLUDING those above the turntable (that's right too). The bells all worked, and they actually lit up so that you can see them! Don't freak out just yet, there's more. The bus was actually fairly clean, and the seats weren't too dirty, for a GH bus (ie: you didn't have to worry too much about what you were sitting in). It seemed mechanically fine, the retarder was functioning to spec, and was not jerking the bus while making a LOUD liquid swooshing noise ( take a quarter filled bottle of water and shake it violently, and you'll get the idea) as many other GH artics do (since their retarders are just absolutely fucked).
To top it off, the bus smelled quite good thanks to the B/O who had a little car freshner on his rearview mirror.
5396 is what GH's buses should all be like, but as we all know they aren't anywhere close to that. Oh well...
Rubber tires, concrete and diesel engines does not equal subtalk.
That smell isn't particularly enticing to most...
To top it off, the bus smelled quite good thanks to the B/O
Also: Why'd you post it on SubTalk and not BusTalk???????????
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
wayne
Da Hui
From http://www.geofftech.co.uk/tube/
Speaking of LU Maps, any sites have old LU Maps? I found 2 links, but was wondering if there was more?
Try searching Google for 'London Underground Maps'
I just wish they had a old LU Map showing the old line to King William Street Terminal. Or the line to Brill/Verney Junction. :/
I can find you a Metropolitan Railway map showing the section beyond Rickmansworth:
From http://www.metroland.nildram.co.uk/amersham/metro/tickets.htm
Annoyingly I can't find a high-res version of this map.
And o-0 at the 2nd link, I gotta see if I can find that in a larger size, thats one I didnt see before. Thanks for the link.
Hopefully that will give you Brill & Verney Junction :-)
Have you seen this one?
All this reminded me to ask the LT Museum if they got photos of the old Church Siding Station, since theres no photos I found of it, and it seems to be a old old station on the Brill Branch. (Though the LT Museum charges 10Pds per photo after the first 4-5 free photos) :/
Hey, I just hit a idea, since they wont send me anymore photos for free without paying for any upcoming requests on my end, think you can ask them for photos since you havent before(I dont think you have anyways)? You wouldnt have to pay, and neither will I. :P Think you can do that?(Pics of Church Siding Station or Verney Junction Station).
I see they've left off Queen's Loo. :o>
wayne
It hasn't been the same since Deayton was sacked. Having said that, it will never be as funny again as it was in the dying years of the Major government. It also helped that in those days the royal family were making total something-or-others out of themselves in public with an alarming frequency.
Heck the London map looks like it could be easily adapted to fit New York if someone had enough time and comedic ability;)
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
Centennial Commorative Edition coming July 16th
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
Centennial Commorative Edition coming July 16th
http://www.newdeal.feri.org/library/s_39_33.htm
Matt
2Bangkok.com - The subway is OPEN!
Note the actual straps along the ceiling of the subway.
My understanding is that this is in addition to the existing elevated train that is already covered on nycsubway.org.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Does it use turnstiles?
C'mon tell me you didn't see that one coming... ;)
I have a friend there who will be riding it in the next few weeks, and will take pictures for me. And I'll be there in November for a "official" nycsubway.org review.
With the recent full service restoration on the Manhattan Bridge, does anyone know what's the top speed for the B and D Trains on the DASH (34th to West 4th). It it like it was back in the day?!!
R-32.
R-32.
~Former T/O for the NYCTA, BVE version.
BTW, what line and equipment did you have the pleasure of pushing; and what's this 'BVE' I keep hearing about?
R-32.
It's really horrible though as they struggle up that hill and you lose so much speed!
-Broadway Buffer
Don't believe everything you hear.
R-32.
-Broadway Buffer
NYC has to be the slowest subway system in the country, even Philly and Chicago are faster, and their infrastructure is just as old, if not older. Philadelphia's trolleys can go faster in their tunnel than the NYCTA subways do!
R-32.
R-32.
Why does it accelerate like that, just before entering 42nd street?
-Julian
Because the train is going downhill.
I've done that 155-161 stretch plenty of times and haven't really experienced above a 35-37ish
Hey, how fast would the F be if there was no Roosevelt Island Station and it had a direct run from 63rd/Lex and 21st-Qnsbridge? Would you say around 65?
David
You should try the L through the 14th Street tube during single-track operation, especially when 1st Avenue and 3rd Avenue are closed.
I agree, that Joralemaon St. tube is a real flyer; especially downtown... 60 easy on an r-62...a [ahem] Kawasaki. I'm sure the 142's won't even breathe hard doing 70. Those 142's are actually quite fast. You'd never realize it at first because they don't have much drama at speed - much like the 75 footers; or that characteristic whine that grew with speed in the past. Anyway, if those timers were on, they sure weren't working any time my train flew through that tunnel.
When do they single track the L? Does this have something to do with the CBTC?
R-32.
Seriously, folks, the Joralemon Street Tunnel is timed at 35 MPH all the way down to the bottom of the tube in each direction. Northbound, it's timed at 30 MPH going UPhill to protect the junction south of Bowling Green. Pre-R-142/A cars won't be able to do better than 24 or so climbing out of the tube in either direction with the field shunting disabled (R-142 and R-142A cars don't have and don't need field shunting).
David
What field shunting is this, and what is it responsible for? I'm dying to be educated here:-)
R-32.
David
http://www.trainweb.org/railwaytechnical/tract-01.html
Goes into it ALL in nice, easy to understand terms ... it'll save dredging through the archives ... :)
But the ONLY thing that wires meant back in arnine days was "Smock condition" ... "SMOCK! SMOCK!" ... (google "Steve Allen") anything else didn't matter. Tripper up, tripper down. Yellow or better, wrap it. Yellow STILL in the cab window as you passed it, *DUMP!* Heh.
So how's the "arnine project" coming, bro? Are we THERE yet? Heh.
R-32.
ITS NOT 70. ITS 45. THE SPEEDOMETER ON THE R62/R62A'S ARE BROKEN/INCORRECT FOR THE MOST PART !!!!!
Since the R-62s are now permanently arranged in 5-car sets, it is entirely likely that the speedometers in the mid-set cars are no longer being calibrated (after all, who needs to look at them besides railfans?). Perhaps someone here who works in a maintenance shop will tell us for certain.
David
-Broadway Buffer
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
R-32.
David
Your FYI is wrong. The fastest I seen them go is probabl6 60mph on a good day. And Untion Square was a drunk motorman who had a train do 40mph in a 10mph zone.
Whoever told you that 70mph can be reached by a R62 (or any other subway car with the acception of the R44 and R46) is wrong, and I'd suggest you check your FYI's.
Well in that case I beat that record! Because a couple days ago, my speedometer was reading 73 mph while we were stopped in a station and passengers were getting on and off the train.
Now dem's be skills!!!
R-32.
-Broadway Buffer
And thank you for nicely correcting me unlike some idiot w/ the screen name of Chap11ChooChoo who acted like a total idiot just because I said that it's unsafe for trains to go over 60. & what a small mistake to get crazy about.
-Broadway Buffer
R-32.
David
avid
I've got one for ya; although it doesn't quite match your bushwhacker ride through Howard Beach. Round about 1984, I got on an N train at Times Square [I think] that must have been a hybrid overhaul. As soon as the doors closed and the the motorman pulled that controller into parallel, that train started off with a "whooooop" sound from the motors under the floor ( the same sound the r-46's and 62's make, but never made before, and never made again). I knew right away this thing meant business! Sure enough, that train went galloping through 49th St. with its hair on fire - making that high pitched whine with speed [that they used to make]. It was too bad that we didn't have any more stops to skip after 49th St., because we were boogeying!
That's not all. During the ride I looked at the interior, and said "Why does this interior look different?". This train - or at least the car I was in - had different lenses on strip lights on the ceiling. They had those frosted lenses that eventually made into GOH r-33's - in place of the regular ones. I don't remember picking up any other details, but with the extra performance and all, the cars were obviously tinkered with. Though this was not the GOH specification at all - they still had the straphangers and look all the same externally. I wasn't on that train long and forgot exactly where I got off.
R-32.
-Julian
Just a Though
R-32.
avid
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/26741.htm
----------------
> Gee..There must be a lot of liberals out there. All I know is
>that Mr. Moore is a #1 asshole. (friend's signature lines deleted)
Ayup ... and you can count me as one of them as far as THIS election's concerned. You remember my background in journalism and digging for facts, not rhetoric. I didn't KNOW that Bush KNEW that the first plane had hit BEFORE he went to that school. The look on his face when they told him about the SECOND plane said it all. Now that I know that, decided to dig a WHOLE lot deeper. Every FACT that was presented in the film was PROVEN true. Forget about fathead's opinions. The FACTS are true.
So I did a little digging at the Department of State's file room (Carlyle Group IS a New York Corporation, it's all there on Washington Avenue) ... true, true, true and true. I've talked to Navy pilots about the "angle of attack" when both planes flew into the towers. You CANNOT fly straight on a 35 degree bank. Those planes are computer-controlled and the computer will NOT let you do that without taking a turn. In fact, only Top Guns can do that in fighter jets and even there it's extremely difficult to keep a plane in straight flight at that degree of banking. It exceeds the control surface's ability to prevent. Terrorists on flight sims can't do that. It takes wads of experience. Ask ANY pilot.
EVERYONE had advance knowledge of Flight 77 coming towards DC for 40 minutes.Yet, there was a complete defensive stand-down. Interceptors from distant Langley AFB took off late and flew at subsonic speeds to arrive 5 minutes too late. Planes from nearby Anacostia Naval Air Station, Andrews Air Force Base, and the 73rd Air Wing at Atlantic City, NJ never took off. Scramblers in the air already at 9:05 from Otis AFB turned to target Flight 77 and were called off, despite a formal shoot-down order from Bush/Cheney "moments after" the 9:05 crash -- which had ended any speculation of accident or coincidence or hijacking motives. By that moment they undeniably knew in advance what was coming and where it was headed. Local news announced that DC was the destination. Surface-to-air missiles at the White House and Pentagon remained sheathed in their silos. Despite the planes having turned off communications with ground control towers and their identifying transponders (which also shuts off their own near-range radar screens to avoid mid-air collisions), they were clearly visible to all external radars, they were being tracked by NORAD and DC towers, and they were somehow being navigated directly to their target. How were they allowed to come into the most restricted air space in the world with no challenge or defense? That is the question that answers both when Bush knew in advance and begs any rational response.
Between the film you obviously haven't seen (pirated copies are available if you don't want to give piggo the bucks, SEE it) and a whole bunch of other information I've gotten, it seems to be a reasonable but unproven assumption that *WE* attacked the WTC just like the old Reichstag episode. REMEMBER, it was Cheny and Rumsfeld that CREATED Bin Laden. Who did we attack after a half-hearted, worthless effort in Afghanistan? We attacked Saddam. I don't see Osama's head on a stick. :(
But hey, I don't expect ya to listen or consider - but I'm working my butt off for "regime change" ... and I don't care if it's Kerry, Nader or Lyndon LaRouche ... THESE guys have GOT to go. No offense ... but SEE the movie, see the big lies we're being told, being lead around by the rings in our noses by the spinmeisters. I lived (as you did) in the days of the Soviet Union. *THAT* was REAL fear - a whole nation vaporized in a couple of minutes ... are the towelheads THAT much more formidable that our leaders insist that we perpetually cower in fear with all these so-called "alerts?" Or is there another motive?
Have you ever read the "Doomsday Act" which the repubs passed into law a couple of months ago? General Tommy Franks stated in November 2003 that the US will suspend the Constitution and impose martial law if there's another "terrorist" attack. Considering the mountains of evidence that 9/11 was an "inside job," it is plausible that the Bush regime will stage another phony incident as a pretext to suspend what remnants of democracy we still have (or at least scare us with the threat up until Election Day). George W. Bush was not joking when he stated, immediately after the Supreme Court's Election in 2000, "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." "Homeland Security" Secretary Tom Ridge told CBS News on December 22, 2003 "If we simply go to red [alert] ... it basically shuts down the country." This would transform the United States into a military dictatorship under "Emergency" administration. And for WHAT? TOWELHEADS? :(
Nope, I was raised to be an AMERICAN, I *refuse* to allow this nation to become a repeat of the Soviet Union. THESE assclowns have *GOT* to go. Period.
As I said in the beginning, you and I have BOTH been through "da Russkies" ... THAT coulda been a REALLY bad day. And still, somehow we survived that all and went on with our lives. Why? Because we had LEADERS ... "there is NOTHING to FEAR but BEER itself!" And we trusted them to take care of business, and they in turn didn't go for face time in the cameras with a perpetual cavalcade of "LOOK OUT! There's a terrorist and he's gunning for YOU." You're in law enforcement. Ask yourself the most important question ... "who NEEDS to know?" Is it proper procedure to go into a situation and blare over the loudspeakers, "there's a man on the second floor with a bomb ... be vigilant?" YOU know what happens - the building empties out, people falling over one another, shitstains on the sidewalk and the PERP gets AWAY (if he doesn't shoot'em all up first) ... right?
These "alerts" need to go to first responders, not Joe Beercan. Where's the "public service announcements" saying, "if you see someone in a winter coat in August, call a cop." or "if you spot someone who's fidgety and looking all around and they're clutching a briefcase in a strange manner, call a cop." THOSE are suitable warnings for a public that's a bunch of morons, GUARANTEED to do something stupid when push comes to show. No? So what's WITH all these "terrorist event likely at YOUR house, and have a nice day." Huh? C'MON ... ANY cop can spot something that don't smell right. No?
And if our "leaders" had BALLS (Cheney's been in a spiderhole since the election, nevermind 9/11) they'd solve this PRONTO. Here's how that you WON'T hear out of Rush Gasbag (has he kicked his habit yet? heh) ... a REAL leader would give a speech like this:
"My fellow Americans. We're a nation that is BETTER than living in fear, and we're NOT going to let the terrorists get in another sucker punch again. I'm putting the Arab nations on notice. *ONE* more attack, anywhere, any time, any place will be met with the most SEVERE force. In the event of ANY other attack, our nuclear missiles have been aimed at the following targets: Mecca, 50 megatons. Medina, 50 megatons. Tehran, 20 megatons. Damascus, 50 megatons. Beirut, 20 megatons. Amman, 20 megatons. Riyahd, the granddady, 100 megatons. And the Dome of the Rock, four bunker busters so as to not disturb the Wailing Wall. We will turn your sands to GLASS so you'll keep slipping and falling down as we take your oil as the price of your terrorism."
Wanna see this this end FAST? Any LEADER who had the balls to say to THEM what we said to the SOVIETS could COUNT on the fuckers rounding up the Wahabbi so fast their heads will spin. If it's a RELIGIOUS war they want, then let's just put it this way, as we ALWAYS HAVE up until Shrub, "we'll take you OUT." America gets VERY little oil from there, if we had to, the price would be bearable. We'd have ALLIES too since it would potentially impact them more than us. The shit WOULD end. If only our leaders had balls. :(
But not to worry, wrist ain't gone limp ... but these assholes have GOT to go. Since 9/11, THEY'VE been doing the work of the terrorists themselves. And if you doubt me, WATCH them ramp it up as the election comes on. If I'm wrong, I'll blow ya. Heh. What was it that the terrorists wanted? Ruin our economy AND make us live in fear? And WHO is providing that? :(
Ever spot a coup d'etat when it was happening around you? Remember the old hippie axiom? "Know they enemy. KNOW thyself?" Hmmm ... but that's where I'm coming from - Cheney in a spiderhole and Shrub forever clueless (he's had four years now and hasn't made a coherent sentece YET) ... no, I don't think we can get any lower than that. And Dick Cheney can go f*ck himself. :)
We're BETTER than that, AND we *have* the nukes to back up OUR threat of true terrorism for the other side. Unfortunately, all we have is this Shrub. :(
"Please stick to rapid/rail transit issues only. This is not "WorldPoliticsTalk"!"
Or are you a member of the "truth squad" appointed to quash questioning of "Fearless Leader?" :(
WHERE IS SHRUB on this most PATRIOTIC day? ("we're at war now")
Could it be TRUE that NYC will be attacked AGAIN today? Run for your lives! No Shrub, Not even Mr. "Go do an impossible sex act" ... if we *had* a leader, first of all, he'd be in TOWN. (or at least "number two") *AND* they'd ride the subway to PROVE their "patriotism" ... forgive me if I bristle. Your party is full of it. PROFF today. :(
That's correct. Your reply, however, was a 100% political rant-and-rave and had nothing to do with transit.
Why not leave the Hazmat stuff to the NYFD, who's been doing this for ages, and stick with yelling at pedestrians and writing tickets and shooting 'bad guys', not to mention everything else that moves?
And what is FDNY going to do? Spray water at it?
Seems to me that either department could be equipped to assist victims in such an attack. How about both?
RSTN 1, Stella 0.
Don't shout, it'll make you even more angry. You cock
sucker.
For the fifth time, shut the f*** up."
Sorry David for going off topic, this is the final off-topic you'll see from me. Just wanted to let the rest know, that it IS rstn, since people were wondering at the time.
What ever happened with the (7)/(8) going to Laguardia?
Dylan
Yes indeed; long departed railfans.
Larry, RedbirdR33
A short single-track section shouldn't do any harm, especially one with no stations on it. If you think about it, each of the tracks at TSQ on the 7 are effectively single track sections, with a station stop and a reversing move on them, each of which handles up to 14tph and supposedly in the past up to 18tph. The M train runs nowhere near those frequencies (IIRC it runs about 6 or 7tph max), so there should be no problems with operating such a segment, with the obvious caveat that Manhattan-bound trains get priority, so as not to fnck up the merge at Myrtle/Broadway.
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/connectingrailroad/connectingrailroad.html
Sounds good to me.
In any case, the project was one of Giuliani's pet projects, but it fell out of favor once Bloomberg came into office with other priorities. With all of the other subway expansion projects that are being actively built or studied today, it will probably be a long time before any LaGuardia subway project is considered again.
I think the Astoria line extension is better though.
Too bad going under the NIMBYs would be so expensive...
Mark
The M train is going no further north than Metropolitan Avenue. And if it went from there to LGA, I wouldn't use it because of having to go too far south in Manhattan to get it.
Amtrak Train Stopped For Arabic-Looking Graffiti
POSTED: 12:04 am EDT July 4, 2004
UPDATED: 1:46 am EDT July 4, 2004
WASHINGTON -- An Amtrak train bound from Miami to New York was halted in Washington for more than an hour Saturday as authorities investigated a possible threat.
Train 92, the Silver Star, left Miami at 10:30 a.m. Friday. Authorities said a painted message in Arabic was seen at the Orlando station and suggested something would possibly happen in Washington, Local 6 News reported.
Amtrak spokeswoman Vernae Graham confirmed that the graffiti prompted security officials to stop the train when it arrived at Washington's Union Station on Saturday afternoon. However, she could not confirm media reports that the graffiti was a message in Arabic that referred to Washington and the Fourth of July.
More than 160 passengers were taken off the train as canine units inspected the cars.
Nothing suspicious was found, and no one was arrested. Passengers were allowed to reboard the train after about an hour and 20 minutes.
Copyright 2004 by Internet Broadcasting Systems and Local6.com. The Associated Press contributed to this report. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
The loss of the WTC and it's people was a tragic event, and an act of war, but such events, such wars and its related loss of live cannot be prevented. The bad guys will ALWAYS win one here or there. There is NOTHING you or anybody else can do to prevent it.
On the other hand, there is no need to live in constant fear, or to believe that there is an enemy behind every scrawl, behind every camera! This is simply NOT SO, and our lives are diminished by our caving into this enemy.
Live your life in strength and freedom, and not in fear! The Godd Lord will call you, one way or another, all in good time.
Elias
Unfortunately, Bush, Ashcroft, Ridge et al. haven't yet realized that :(
All the more reason to VOTE THEM OUT come November.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Do not assume that a Kerry administration would be any less paranoid. Democratic Presidents often are considered soft on defense, which today encompasses terrorism, and therefore Kerry might find it necessary to prove that he's as tough - in other words, paranoid - as Bush.
I believe that, and have heard that from people in a position to know.
OTOH, it reminds me of what my mother used to say to people who said that you shouldn't be afraid to fly, because "if your time is up, your time is up." Her response: "But what if the pilot's time is up, and I happen to be on the same plane." ;-)
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
R-32.
The Arabic Message probably said
1. Eat at Joe's
2. For a Good Time, Call Jenna (212) xxx-xxx
3. Vote for Bush 2004
Either way I wonder what it really looked like. The train was probably sitting in Hialeah, got tagged, and now people think it's arabic.
There's people who can't tell the difference between arabic, hebrew or russian, I'd like to know if it was really arabic.
From Trains News Wire, July 6:
ORLANDO, Fla. – Graffiti found in the Orlando Amtrak station indicating there would be some sort of “event” in Washington, D.C. on the 4th of July, combined with “an abundance of caution” on Amtrak caused its train No. 92, the Miami-to-New York “Silver Star,” to be stopped Saturday and searched in Washington by FBI agents and Amtrak police, according to Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black.
The Silver Star was purportedly the last train to use the Florida station when the graffiti, at first reported to be in Arabic but later confirmed to be in English, was found. About 160 passengers and crewmembers were taken off the train and interviewed during the search. After an 80-minute delay, the train was allowed to continue on to New York.
Those alphabets look nothing alike. I can understand not knowing the difference between Russian and Greek, or Chinese and Japanese, but that is ridiculous. If a person can't tell the difference between those three, then they clearly don't know what Arabic looks like and therefore why would the jump to the conclusion, upon seeing some writing, that it is Arabic?
1) Can someone explain this oddity?
Also, there were service advisory posters that had a 4 and 5 in red circles.
2) I guess the printer duped the commuters into thinking the 4 and 5 were maybe 7th Av lines at a quick glance?
crashed, crashed, craaaaaaaaaaashed... into a ditch!
You do realize all posters are black, white, and red, right? The notices that is.
If you think you saw a oddity, come to the 7 where all service advisory notices are black/red/white.
I saw the same poster in GCS on 4/5/6 last week.
The red colors on the 4/5 I would think was to indicate "Emergency"
notice... as the text says "this RUSH HOUR work was unavoidable this time"
The red color could imply urgency towards the work being done.
(otherwise i dont expect the interns to notice that err)
Does anybody know why the B would run or was it just a deadhead signed with B?
Michael
Writing from the internet cafe in Coney Island
P.S. Stillwell Terminal look beautiful. How long will it be before the N returns
The N returns to Stillwell next year.
Michael
Washington, DC
About NY Underground, are there any plans to release it on DVD?
I watched it again, and it was just as classical as the first airing.
I watched it again, and it was just as mystical as the first airing.
The 45+ minutes spent at 65th Street was intense... and humid. We coulda --GRILLED-- David for that fan!
Like I said at the Screening, sans DVD, I'm MAAAAAAAD GRATEFUL to Sir Ronnie for the photographs
of the trip.
Or did you mean the batteries?
R-32.
Robert
1. 5001+5004-5003+5002 R68A
2. 2500+2502-2503+2501 R68A
R44, R46 (most cases)
A = even, divisible only by 2
B = A + 1.(odd)
C = A + 3 (odd)
D = A + 2 (even, divisible by 4)
R68 (this was the original R44 and R46 pattern)
A = even, divisible by 4
B = A + 1 (odd)
C = A + 3 (odd)
D = A + 2 (divisible only by 2)
R68A
A = even, divisible only by 2
B = A - 1.(odd)
C = A + 1 (odd)
D = A + 2 (even, divisible by 4).
hope this helps
wayne
He might have been confused with the R68, which starts at 2500-.
The person pulls one storm door open, and the way the opposite one slides to its respective side is by using some gears. As the pulled storm door opens up, there is a gear for that door and there is a gear for the other door. The gear for the pulled door turns the gear for the other door as well as moving its own door, causing both doors to open.
And there ya have it.
Took forever to figure out, but thank you math instruments!!!!!!!!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
til next time
F:CONEY ISLAND
F:63ST/6AV LCL
F:via SEA BEACH
Anyway, I am now at home and will go map hunting shortly. No maps will be available for sale or to be mailed because I am unable to honor such requests. There are no exceptions to this. Sorry. If you wish to inquire about obtaining one of the maps used today, please contact WMATA directly.
http://www.lrta.org/london-wlrt.html#update2
This is the HTML markup of the WMATA document "The WMATA Service Planning Model" .
This document show the results of a study and criteria used to set policies WMATA uses to determine what type of consist to use during various times of the day.
The information in the document shows the reason why running two car trains is not operationally optimal.
John
John
the link I had was:
http://192.168.203.70/smi_web_server/wmata/track_schematic/wmata_track_schematic_nomenclature.htm
Doh !
That’s the IP address of my Apache HTTP server on my LAN. If you had not posted that I had used the wrong URL I would have likely never corrected it. Here is the correct link.
http://www.chesapeake.net/~cambronj/wmata/track_schematic/wmata_track_schematic_nomenclature.htm
Oh, and by the way,
Thanks
John
F05 should be Navy Yard which you might also notice is missing. I have corrected the error. This is what happens when you don’t have someone proofing your work for these kind of mistakes.
Keep looking. I need all of the help I can get.
Thanks
John
On the printed version that you gave me----You had Farragut North listed as Farragut West..
Mark
I looked over both the 106 mile single sheet version and the 127 mile multi page version. Both have Farragut North labeled as Farragut West.
Before getting some more documentation off the Dulles Corridor Rapid Transit Project web site I noticed that I removed one of the stations from Option T6 that is the preferred alignment through Tyson.
It was corrected in the route listing in the companion document for 127 mile track schematic.
The missing station in the 127 mile multi page version shows the RTU number for the station in the correct order if the station "Tyson Central West (Pike Seven) (M04)" from Option T6 was not there, however if you look at the signal number at the interlockings you will notice that they don’t match RTU numbers. The signal number are labeled as if Tyson Central West (Pike Seven) RTU was still there.
All of The CAD files for the printed versions have been corrected. I will upload the corrected CAD versions to the web tonight to those that have the viewer.
Next time we get together I will make updated printed version available to all that have them.
John
Amazing game by itself, but the Mets winning it sealed the deal!
It appears that nothing is going to save Jose Contreras.
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
Happy Birthday, Mr. Steinbrenner. The Flushing Express just ran over your cake.
I *like* that one ... by the way, it's pronounced SteinGRABBER. :)
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
(welcome back, by the way)
But yeah, where it is and where it works, it's a delight. Sadly, this country's headed in the other direction. :(
Do I detect the smell of sour grapes?
The million dollar team always settling for the cellar or .500 ball swept the multi million dollar team that always wins and never sees the cellar or .500 ball.
You may call it sour grapes, I call it a huge embarrassment !
Bill "Newkirk"
the Mets may have not pitched that much better...but they don't have the lowest ERA in the league for nothing. Now if only the bats would wake up.
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
Anyways as ticked off as I am that the Yanks lost especially this year's 2nd game [damn ump on that strike 3 call to Posada] The Mets will more or less lose 3 of 4 games to the Phillies, while the Yanks have basically locked up the AL East :-p
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
Jeremy
Again, why are you incapable of tipping your cap to a team which flat out beat yours? I've had to do it a lot over the past 7 years.
Bill "Newkirk"
Cubs Win! Cubs Win!
Hmmmm...looks like we have a new terrorist on hand who disguises himself as an all American boy with his canine sidekick, "harmlessly" armed with a pop-cap gun.
I’m seeing red!
Enough. Time to eat!
Wonder what Dominus Beechingus would have to say about this?
After an afternoon at Richmondtown we arrived back at the ferry at 8PM only to be told no boats till 11PM! Rather than be stranded we took 2 buses to Bay Ridge and got the subway back to Penn Station, then the LIRR to Flushing, adding over 2 hours to the trip.
I discovered that because of the fireworks in the proximity of the SOL, they cancelled ferry service for most of the evening. I didn't see any annnouncements of any ferry cancellations on the news or in the papers.
Pure idiocy...
www.forgotten-ny.com
And how does the MTA get involved at all? Are they required to post notices about the issues related to all transportation agencies?
And how does the MTA get involved at all?<<<
I meant the DOT.
And I'm supposed to check the website every time I go out? Why wasn't it the papers? Why didn't the traffic babes mention it on the radio? If the ferry will be out for over 4 hours, that's big news.
www.forgotten-ny.com
I didn't go to SI last year, but I did 2 years ago, and occasionally before that. This was the first time they eliminated service in my memory...
www.forgotten-ny.com
Michael
Washington, DC
Next year there will be no ferry service at all on July 4th. The year after, no service for that entire week. The following year, they'll just forget to resume service afterwards at all.
Did you take the ferry to Richmondtown in the afternoon? Were there no notices posted on the ferry then?
Not a thing. They're making loud announcements on the ferry since the accident last fall but there was nothing on the loudspeakers when we were on the noon boat.
They dropped the ball.
www.forgotten-ny.com
No, was very crowded and i did'nt get near the wall.
www.forgotten-ny.com
I'm not saying this was sufficient notice to all public. But that's how it was. Happened last year as well and judging from other posts, it's been going on for a few years.
=)
But I gotta admit, the coolest thing I saw was when we passed by Coney Island, coming and going. It was just something else, to see how crowded the beach was. Wall to wall, like the old days. The humans completely covered the beach. And passing by again at night was quite a visual treat. It was thrilling to see, actually. Brooklyn really seems to fit very comfortably with the seashore.
http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-nysub053881987jul05,0,7504726,print.column?coll=ny-news-columnists
Bill "Newkirk"
I assume that to get off the MTA right-of-way they'll either need a crane and a hugely oversized flatbed, or crank some manual switches and open some fences?
and 1050.9(a):
No person, except as specifically authorized by the Authority, shall enter or attempt to enter into any area not open to the public, including but not limited to train operator’s cabs, conductor’s cabs, bus operator’s seat location, token booths, closed-off areas, mechanical or equipment rooms, concession stands, storage areas, interior rooms, tracks, roadbeds, tunnels, plants, shops, barns, train yards, garages, depots or any area marked with a sign restricting access or indicating a dangerous environment.
Possession of keys, brake handles, etc. is also a chargeable offense, but it doesn't come under NYCRR part 1050 since it isn't listed. If it's found that a person who passed him/herself off as an employee entered the system without paying a fare, he or she could conceivably be charged with fare evasion (which DOES come under NYCRR part 1050) as well.
David
From what I heard, he actually was good at the job, hard to charge him with reckless endangerment...
Did he have his own handle or somehow convince another operator to "load" him one?
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
I see that Darius was only charged with "attempted grand larceny" because he signed the vehicle out and back in again. I'm not even sure that's attempted, in my completely-layperson legal judgment :-)
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
Streetcars are not motor vehicles, but transit authorities that have streetcar (not LRV) operations usually require a CDL licence, since the employee usually starts as a bus operator before moving to rail.
Arizona requires a CDL for any "vehicle-for-hire" operating in the street... which includes streetcars. As a consequence, all of Old Pueblo Trolley's volunteer operators must have a CDL.
Here's a few of my own photos of OPT.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
David
Actually, it isn't UNLESS the possession occurs on Transit property. There, it would be construed as "possession of burglary tools" I would suppose. But I have brake handles, keys and all the tools to operate subway trains in my possession as a member of a train museum where such operates. And I have operated, therefore the possession is lawful. But I'd have to be INSANE to take them onto NYCTA property. Wait a minute - I *am* insane. Nevermind. :)
But off property, possession shouldn't be a problem. You can't even open a beer with a brake handle.
And with all this "in these times" nonsense, you have pedantic legislators quibbling over who can smoke where instead. (grin) Gotta love the porcine, eh?
OH BY THE BY, saw that "movie" you've been pushin'...
all I could say was ..wow...
Oh yeah,there are more than enough folks walking around with no souls.
Look at that guy in the White House....
Then you don't know how to use your brake handle >G<
That nipple is there for a reason.
If you've got an arnine handle handy, take a look at that hole on the underside. Now examine the hole on the end of the handle. Add a faucet screen, put the end up to your lips, and suck. THAT'S the reason the newer handles ain't built the way the old ones were. Heh.
It's funny ... when I worked there, I'd see people "passing the handle" ... I never got it until recently. Whoops.
Peace,
ANDEE
Fake conductor nabbed - again.
Pete Donohue and Tony Sclafani, NY Daily News, July 3, 2004
A bogus subway conductor was busted again yesterday when cops on board
a Manhattan train realized he was in the wrong car, officials said.
Edward Brown, in uniform and equipped with a Transit Authority radio
and a set of transit keys, was nabbed about 10 a.m. aboard an eight-car
C train at Columbus Circle, police sources said.
Plainclothes transit Officers Peter Rodriguez and Steve Vinella got
suspicious when they spotted Brown in the conductor's cab in the lead
car because conductors should be in the middle cars, the sources said.
The cops questioned him and asked for his transit identification card,
but Brown didn't have one, police sources said.
He was taken off the train and arrested.
Brown, of Flushing, Queens, was charged with criminal impersonation of
a transit worker, a misdemeanor, and possession of stolen property. He
had been arrested twice before on charges of impersonating a transit
worker, police sources said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/07-03-2004/news/story/208669p-179923c.html
He's someone new on the radar. I wonder what he imagined himself doing in the lead car?
http://www.timesnewsweekly.com/Archives2003/Jan.-Mar.2003/010303/NewFiles/POSING%20AS%20TA.html
http://www.rockawave.com/News/1999/0703/Front_Page/Impersonates_Conductor0703.html
Maybe he thought he was on a PATH train.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/05/nyregion/05diary.html
Kristine Freeland
New York, NY
Welcome to SubTalk, as I think this may have been your first time posting.
Do you have any more tales of the wonderful hearts that pass through the tunnels of the city?
My name is Dr. Christian Neuert and I work for the Deutsches Museum in Munich, Germany.
I really hope that someone of you can help me...
First of all I will have to give you some information about our projekt, so that you will not be surprised about my question:
In May 2003, the Deutsches Museum, one of the world's largest museums in Technology and Natural Sciences, celebrated its 100th birthday. In the same month the first part of its new branch museum - the Deutsches Museum Verkehrszentrum (Museum of Transport and Traffic) - has opened. In three large halls - covering an area of 12,000 m2 - this new museum focuses on land transport. The themes presented in the halls differ from hall to hall. The exibition in hall no 1 will be about "City Traffic" (Opening in 2005) and in hall no 2 about "Travelling" (Opening also in 2005). Since May 2003 you can find in hall no 3 the exibition about "Mobility and Technology".
In hall no 1 ("City Traffic") there will be an area about public transport. In this context, we want to pick out "underground transport" as a central theme and - as one aspect - we want to show, how the interior of an "old" historical underground car looked like - compared with the interior of a very modern one, e.g. of a New York subway car. So we are thinking about showing a part/section (length approx. 3 meters) of one modern (New York) subway car.
In this context I would like to ask my question...
Does anybody know, where maybe we can get one?
Best wishes from Germany
Dr. Christian Neuert
P.S.
If you want to get more information about the "Deutsches Museum" and the "Deutsches Museum Verkehrszentrum", please check out our internet presentations:
www.deutsches-museum.de
and
http://verkehrszentrum.deutsches-museum.de
R-32.
(from the MTA website, www.mta.info)
Division of Materiel - Operations - Asset Recovery, 130 Livingston Street, 6th floor, Room 6044, Brooklyn, NY 11201. Phone: 1(800) 543- VALU; Fax: (718) 694-5344.
Good luck!
David
You just missed it though. We (New York City Transit) just got finished dumping over one thousand red coloured cars known as 'Redbirds' into the ocean off the coast of Delaware. As you continental types from the other side of the pond are fond of pointing out, us Americans do some stupid things ( even though the Transit Authority made that decision and not the average person). All that precious steel at the bottom of the sea. Do the fish need a metro; did anybody ask them?
Anyhow, any of those could have satisfied your need sufficiently. The next major retirement is not for another year or two if then. Until then, you most probably will have to pick from amongst the left-overs ( the few cars that did not get thrown out for the sake of fan trips, or those pressed into work service (but those had their interiors modified or stripped)). Anyhow, check the website and write Transit for their response.
I hope this helps.
R-32.
I know, my paternal grandfather was one of the designers.
Peace,
ANDEE
Ha! You could build a six track lion on the Concourse with room left over!
Elias
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
The Concourse line having 3 tracks would have been 4 tracks, if not for the extra wide platform at the N/B side of 145th St, lower level. It is now impossible to convert to a 4 track line for the following reasons:
1. It would require displacement of thousands of apartment residents and businesses along the Grand Concourse.
2. It runs above the Cross-Bronx Expressway; which Robert Moses and company built the highway, in the 1950's, in such a way as not to disrupt the subway tunnel. Can you imagine the traffic nightmares along the nation's busiest interstate for years to come? The tunnel is made of bedrock (from what I observed), and you have foundations along the rock that may be disrupted.
3. The existing mezzanines and passageways will have to be realinged, requiring full station closures for an extended period, possibly numerous weekend closures of the entire line above 145th st.
4. Track interlockings at both sides of Bedford Park Blvd would also have to be realinged and is not feasible from both cost and engineering factors. So basically, you have to close down Tremont, Fordham, Kingsbridge, and Bedford Park stations and try to convert the platforms and walls into 4 tracks, and the same 2 island platforms. Impossible to do.
5. The ridership does not justify any need for increased capacity on the Concourse line, 3 tracks with the middle track is used for peak direction express service to/from Manhattan. And the tracks are set up to be among the most efficent uses in the entire subway system. For example, unlike local and express tracks which may have to cross or merge paths at some point (A/C at Hoyt St), the Concourse line allows local and express trains to run independently (pun intended) of each other. B and D trains can run alongside each other when leaving 125th st and will never have to share tracks anywhere up to, and including Bedford Park Blvd. They still have to share one track in reverse peak but why tinker with a good thing as that?
"It runs above the Cross-Bronx Expressway; which Robert Moses and company built the highway, in the 1950's, in such a way as not to disrupt the subway tunnel."
It must have been one of his weaker moments. :0)
So that REALLY was a challenge to build a 3 lane highway, leaving a subway line untouched. He also did the Prospect Expressway, and that required a new entrance at Fort Hamilton Parkway because part of the F line runs underneath it.
I wish he had brought that kind of ingenuity to transit as well as roads.
At 174/175 the view is even more interesting. You look up and there's the Grand Concourse passing by, almost like it's in another dimension from the station entrance. It's like looking at a real life isomentric view, a slice illustration similar to those that show the detail of places like Grand Central Terminal, with all the underground tracks, power lines, electrical and other utilities being noted. Except here, it's the real thing. That "little" bit of engineering is superlative. It only reinforces, inadvertently or otherwise the realization that, yes indeedy, we are living in a human-designed mechanical machine constructed by us to facilitate our existence on a large rocky sphere. At 174/175, a bit of the curtain is lifted...
Is it possible to add a single lane next to the existing three where the Grand Concourse crosses the Cross-Bronx Expressway?
And is the Grand Concourse wide enough to leave three of the tracks largely untouched, while adding one track to one side? This way only one side has to be disrupted, and only one lane at a time.
R-32.
>>>1. It would require displacement of thousands of apartment residents and businesses along the Grand Concourse. <<<
The Grand Concourse is wide enough, at most points, to support a widening of the line without destruction of apartment buildings and businesses.
Peace,
ANDEE
But River Ave at 161st st at the Deegan end, is not wide enough, and the line cuts through a very tiny part of the Polo Grounds Houses at the Southeastern corner, enough problems in a nutshell.
We do agree the money could be put into better use, like extending the Concourse line towards Gun Hill Road and Co-Op City, as it was originally planned over 50 years ago.
Most definitely.
Peace,
ANDEE
Technically the Express and Local tracks do not merge, the local tracks continue on to Court St Station(NY Transit Museum). NYCT Just made a service pattern which has local and express trains share tracks across the river.
Here's an idea Widen the Grand Concourse to 4 tracks, All four trackways to IND specifications, but the Express Platforms to IRT specs (to eliminate the gap). Elminiate the Jerome Elevated and have the 4 run Express on Grand Councourse, while the B and D go local. OR vice versa, Have the B and D run express to the new extention to Co-op, while the 4 goes Local to Bedford Pk Blvd.
You make alot of good points, but that's not true.
First remember that the subway is two levels down, not one level down (e.g. contract one Broadway). First there is the mezzanine, of course, then - down another flight of steps - there's the platform.
Secondly, please remember that what is now the Concourse line was constructed in the median, under what are now the express lanes. That means the tracks are centrally located, just like Queens Blvd.. Those two three lane roadways are plenty wide enough for a three track subway. Just imagine - if you will - if it was a three track elevated. Even with platforms, there would be plenty of air on both sides, especially for a fourth track. In principle, it's not much different underground. There is considerable space on either side, and the platform level is deep enough not to force the displacement of adjacent residents. What they will have to do, however, is jack up and support the foundations of those apartment buildings (it's very possible). However, this is nothing new. They did that all along Fulton St. in Brooklyn as well as jack up the el itself. That's to say nothing of Times Square itself. The original curving alignment was built under the Times building. The 53rd St. wye is another example (53rd/8th), as those trains surely can't turn sharp enough to stick to the corners; they're deep enough - so they go under the building. The Concourse is no different. There is sufficient technology to accomplish this.
I have a point to add to yours. Those tunnel-bridges at every station would have to be modified where the intersecting roadway goes under the Concourse. The subway tunnel goes under the Concourse but over that roadway ( trolley tracks in the old days).
R-32.
I do not know. I live in North Dakota not North Concourse, but looking at my Hagstrom's Map, it appears that Tremont, Burnside. Kingsbridge and Bedford Park might have a part that go under or something.
Elias
Several. Along with all the ones that 'Elias' mentioned ( especially Tremont Ave., because that was my stop ), there is 167th St. and 161st St. itself. There are plenty of pictures. The book I'm looking at as I write is 'Building The Independent Subway'. Right there on page 55 is a photograph of 161st St. and below it is a schematic/ cut-away of the 167th St. complex. The 'underground' subway tracks go above the trolley tracks/ street. Notice, the diagram shows stairway going up to the mezzanine. Can any one tell me if those stairwells remain today? Probably not. Notice, like I said earlier, the subway is centrally located under the median/ express lanes. If you get a chance to view the said photograph, then you will see that there is plenty of 'elbow' room to either side - in terms of real estate - just judging by the sidewalk entrances diplaced way over to the side. there are other issues in adding a fourth track, but real estate is not one of them.
BTW, to the question again, I later noticed [on page 56] that there is another underpass on the Concourse; but that was before the subway was built. It is/ was located in the proximity of Bedford Blvd. (if it still exists).
R-32.
161st st
167th st
170th st
Tremont Ave
Kingsbridge Road
Bedford Park Blvd
Fordham Road has an underpass, but on the Grand Concourse itself crossing underneath Fordham, not on Fordham Road itself.
174th st and Morris Ave run underneath the Concourse but are not considered underpasses.
I think Burnside Ave does have an underpass, but I'm not sure.
Yes you are right, there is a Bedford Park Blvd underpass.
Peace,
ANDEE
Where can I buy/look at this book?
they have a copie at the Queens main branch on Merrick Blvd,in the Long Island Room upstairs...
you can get the whole book zeroxed for about 2 dollars if you want...
but I don't know if the book is still in print...you can try the Transit store in Grand Central Terminal...
R-32.
R-32.
Where can I buy/look at this book?
I'd Leave the Concourse IND line alone.
I'd build a new two track line and attach it to the Fifth Avenue Subway:
Stops at:
WTC / West Side Hwy (EXP)
Chambers St (EXP)
Moore Street / West Broadway (Local)
E Houston St / West Broadway (Local)
Washington Square (Local)
14th Street / Fifth Avenue (Local)
23rd Street / Fifth Avenue (Local)
34th Street / Fifth Avenue (EXP)
42nd Street / Fifth Avenue (EXP)
53rd Street / Fifth Avenue (EXP)
60th Street / Fifth Avenue (EXP)
116th Street / 5th Avenue (Local)
125th Street / 5th Avenue (EXP)
138th Street / 5th Avenue (Local)
149th Street / River Avenue (Local)
161st Street / River Avenue (EXP / Local Terminal)
Bedford Park Blvd / Grand Concourse
Mosholu Pky / Jerome Ave (4)
Bainbridge / Gun Hill Road
Webster-Bronx Blvd / Gun Hill Road
White Plains Road / Gun Hill Rd (2)
Bronxwood Ave / Gun Hill Road
Boston Road / Gun Hill Road
Esplanade (5) / Gun Hill Road
Bartlow Ave
CoOp City.
So my idea is a new line but with no real new Concourse Service.
The reason why I started this thread is because one possibility for extending the SAS into the Bronx could be to the Grand Concourse line, where it could siphon off riders from Jerome Avenue, and provide relief for the Lex.
Extending the (6)and <6> is cheaper, more riders on (6) and <6> means longer express running times. Unless you want to run the (D) peak express middays as well as rush hours.
But the SAS does not do much for the Lex vis a vis riders from the Bronx.
Elias
Which is why it eventually needs to be connected to the Bronx. The path of least resistance is to use an existing ROW, or the Grand Concourse.
...unless Charlie Rangel becomes Chairman of the Ways & Means committee. If that happens, look for $$$ to flow into NYC, and into his district in particular.
Yes, and No.
While it is more feesible to add service to an outlying branch than to a Manhattan Trunk, The building of a new trunk (second Avene) does suggest the opportunity to serve new areas of the Bronx. CoOp City is one good choice and Third Avenue is another.
A Third Avenue Subway could depart from Third Avenue by continuing north on Lorillard and then bending East on Fordham road Then following the Bronx and Pelham Parkway to CoOp City via Stillwell Avenue. That is an all new line, but it would then be too much traffic for a two track Second Avenue Subway.
Since we seem to be locked in to a two track lion on second, Id bend half of the servive west on 125th to the Hudson river, and send half of the traffic north to Fordham University via Third Avenue.
SAS is a nice idea, and is compatible with existing routes, but any really forward thinking lion needs to be a physically separate system, using its own cars, liner induction motors, computerized control and high speed row.
Elias
Why? It would mandate sending everything from 2nd Ave to the Bronx, including service from Broadway, leaving the 125th St. terminal cut off, but it should provide enough service.
Why ???
To the North and East of Fordham University is the Bronx Park (The Botanical Garden at that point) Just to the North West is the neighborhood of Bedford Park, and the former Third Avenue Station was just seven short blocks from the Concourse IND station of the same name. North of that is Norwood and that has the IND 205th Street Station right in the middle.
Let us put our money where the needs are the greatest.
Elias
Also besides 200th Street, there was also 204th Street, 210th Street and Gun Hill Road stations on the northern part of the line. I would make the line an open cut after 184th Street and elevate it over Fordham Road partially above the Metro North Station, then it will shift over to Webster Avenue between 194-197 Sts. 138-180 Sts will be a 3rd Ave subway. The replacement station on Webster could also increase the number of people going to the Botanical Gardens.
Stopping at Fordham will be worse than the Archer Avenue replacement Subway (which doesn't go to 168th Street and should actually go farther out into Queens).
No, that is not true. They can share the same ROW, but not the same tracks or trackways. Building a subway under the existing tracks or an el above the existing tracks are both possibillites. Of course anouther posibility is to use FRA compatible equipment and crews on that line.
Elias
Well my plan for the Second Avenue Subway would be to make a new subway under Third Avenue in the Bronx. According to the map, that is an area that could use service again.
My pie in the Sky gets bigger when I build a Fifth Avenue Subway, and send that up the Concourse non-stop to BPB, make a connection with the Jerome at Mosholu, then bend east on Gun Hill Road to CoOp City.
Elias
It was then decided to link the the two lines untill funding was availible....meaning "we'll do this latter when we built phase 2"...
while planning Phase 2 lines,it was changed again,so that now instead of joining the route near Grand Concourse..it would continue along Boston Road to East 180th st to join the White Plains Road line,with a branch to Eastchester[joining the Concourse extention from 205th st there]
The Second ave subway can accomplish this goal once again by joining the 8th ave subway between 125th and 135th st,where the tunnel speads out to 6 tracks[something simular to what was done to the Queens Blvd line for 63rd street service]
As of the moment,a route can be built to the Hub at 149th st where transfers can be made to the 2/5 subway.This way some service to the Bronx can be gained....for the moment untill a more suitable route is placed forth....
Are u kidding me? I guess you've never been on Grand Concourse before, it's huge! They could have probably built an 8 track line under it. I'm shocked to tell u the truth that they didn't at least build a 4 track one. They could have probably put the IRT out of business with that.
-Broadway Buffer
The BOT viewed the Concourse line as a branch of the 8th Avenue line and not a separate trunk line. There was also the matter of the Jerome Avenue line being a short distance away.
The Bronx groups were calling for a four-track line to be built, not connecting into the 8th Avenue line, but rather down the East Side to a connection there with 53rd Street or the 6th Avenue line.
The BOT didn't want to spend the money, and there was no sign that they were going to change their mind. They literally said "do you want to build this or not?" That was the choice, and it was the only choice that the Bronx had.
There certainly wasn't any problem with space on the Concourse. Just like construction on Queens Blvd., there were no centre lanes back then, of course, they just dug through the median without disrupting [much] traffic - what little there was back then.
R-32.
;-)
-Broadway Buffer
I think John Kerry is much worse a guy than DQ BrightonLine.
-Broadway Buffer
I don't think it's fair to blame the foamers for making us look like a bunch of idiots. We're doing a pretty good job of it ourselves.
-Adam
(fishbowl6v92ta@aol.com)
I dont do it anymore, ill say it again............ and why does everyone make a big deal about the Orange Q? its a color , not the letter!! Still a DAM Q Train!! Not an F or a Z!!! ( ya dont get technical ! and say , there is no Z signs on the rolls on 68'68a's! i know that!)
Who Cares, let it go, can we say ,. lets move on with life...............
I'm being sarcastic here, guys.
I meant to say that I didn't like the fact that u changed rollsigns. & plus, I said that I'm glad u don't do it anymore, so why are u still making a fuss?
-Broadway Buffer
Anyway, sorry for the delay but here are my my photos of R68 #2810 that was hit sometime over the long holiday weekend. Let's hope the NYPD will catch this vandal in the act soon.
I've seen "21st Street-Queensbridge", "Broad Channel", "Howard Beach", "205 Street Bronx" and countless others.
I've also seen B trains that just have a blank space where the north terminal destination should be.
-RJM
So, a suggestion: stop publicizing orange Q signs!
David
-Broadway Buffer
Bill "Newkirk"
Hmmmmm.............I wonder if other Auto Zone stores will appear on other Metrocards making it more difficult to collect ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Here they are! Enjoy!
Sidebar: Imagestation warned me “these images are of an adult nature”!
John
The numbers are not used publically but I think the letters are.
In addition, the collective Harbor Freeway [bus] service is the 809, though it consists of bus routes 444, 445, 447, 460, and 550.
(Yeah, I know the 10 has been "temporarily" bustituted, yuck.)
Mark
The only reason 25 is used for the subway is that the schedule program requires a route number.
The Light Rail has two, I'll have to find out what's used.
Chuck Greene
Like Throgs Neck instead of the correct Throgg's Neck.
Gasp! First post in a couple months!!!
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
I Beg To Differ!
Also, while we're talking SUBWAY lines that have a station called "Union", Los Angeles' Red Line SUBWAY stops at Union Station as well.
Don't get me wrong, I love Toronto, and Union was the first subway station I used after riding a VIA Rail train from Montreal to Toronto's Union Station back in August of 1980. However, there are other "Union Stations" in North America, and as you can see, there are subways that stop there as well.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
-Robert King
To my knowledge Toronto has no stations fully located on a curve (though some stations have slight curves at the edges).
Did you happen to recognize anything from the video as something definitely from the TTC-- I mean maybe it isn't Toronto!
-Robert King
And if there are any Subtalkers there - maybe we can railfan
Mike
Mike
Mike
-Robert King
"Excellent"
Don't be at all worried about taking photography, I'm sure most operators would help out and take the picture for you so that you could be in some of them ;-)
You can do the whole subway system in about 5 hours if that's your thing... Definitely grab a railfan window each and every time you get on though–- it's never that long a wait for the next train if it's taken, and basically your only competition are the kids...
Most people coming to Toronto are probably most excited about the streetcars though... I'd take you around if I didn't work such crappy hours, but I'm always free to answer any questions you may have!
Take care,
Ryan
Mark
Mike
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
1. Lots of new residential buildings going up, and the quality of the facades is much higher than in the 1980s and early 1990s.
2. More people moving around the city on bicycles than I can ever remember (true elsewhere in Brooklyn too).
3. A bunch of wreck trolleys stored on a track inside the Brooklyn Navy Yard, off Kent Avenue.
Anyone here have information on number three?
They make nice seagull perches.
The grey locomotive will probably end up as someone's razor blades.
Mike
Do you want a real Brooklyn PCC rollsign or a copy? Expect to pay big $$ for a real one post-WWII, and several crucial internal organs more if you want a real one from 1936. The most rare are the ones made with the infamous mispellings (doonk doonk doonk at the print shop).
I have a TTC PCC front rollsign. I used to have a side sign as well but a summer job where I never got paid forced me to sell one. I just unrolled the front sign partway and looked at it.
-Robert King
They've just gotten an ex-Brussels PCC.
thank you
Michael
Mike
Took some pictures of even more ex-Shaker cars, including two sisters of the cars in the Navy Yard.
I should have an answer about the Brooklyn rollsign for you by that time. It might be a paper copy and not on the original type treated fabric.
The area behind the present Kent Ave gate used to be the Wallabout Market, which was served by its own RR to shuttle freight cars around. I think it was primarily small steam locos, but I think it had a trolley powered steeplecab for a time. Washington Ave. used to go all the way from Flushing Ave. to Kent, and had BRT trolley shortcut trackage up Washington to Myrtle that section was taken over by the Yard expansion.
The popped handle is the best as far as I'm concerned; some people just lift it before the train stops, so the second the train is ready to open the doors, theirs opens first. Or some imperious looking Frenchman gives a scowl, then pops the door open with a flourish. The buttons have made the scowl and flourish hand gesture obsolete.
In Spain, people aren't so imperious; they look more like they are putting the finishing touches on a piece of serious artwork when then pop the door open.
Buttons are used in the US on Baltimore and San Diego Light Rail, and maybe others.
My main question was how does the TO know when to close the doors without sticking his head out the window. Is it a mirror?
Similar to London, except london uses mirror's.
Yes, l14 is fully automated.
Not as much as the bone breaking Sprague-Thompson stock doors did. I would call any post MP55 stock door closing gentle.
When death rides the rails
I apologise that you (may) have to register, but I think that it is a very good read.
A quick summary--The article discusses the effects of suicide by train on the members of the crew and others and reveals some other information about this seldom-discussed topic.
Matt
i saw a ret tagged vancordlant train in the brooklyn bridge layup tracks
The amazing thing is that I have taken dozens of rides on the Harlem and Hudson lines over the last 25 years, but never one in an ACMU. The odds of catching one was better in 1980, with only the M-1's around to challenge them, but my timing must have been poor. Perhaps, at this late date a finale fantrip can be set before its too late. The ERA had one in 1998, but the trains are still running six years after that 'final run'
Will post whatever pics I took tommorow night.
A question though, how does one upload pics to this board to appear here?
The amazing thing is that I have taken dozens of rides on the Harlem and Hudson lines over the last 25 years, but never one in an ACMU. The odds of catching one was better in 1980, with only the M-1's around to challenge them, but my timing must have been poor. Perhaps, at this late date a finale fantrip can be set before its too late. The ERA had one in 1998, but the trains are still running six years after that 'final run'
Will post whatever pics I took tommorow night.
A question though, how does one upload pics to this board to appear here?
Dont they run mainly to Brewster(Harlem)?
Cant wait to see the pics, goodluck on your trip.
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Cannot find server or DNS Error
Internet Explorer
It's Dave's Electric Railroads , and I just checked - it's up and running - pics updated 7/2/2004.
I supply him with 98% of the Baltimore captions on the site.
Every once in a while some of the DNS servers go "on the fritz" and if you happen to be hooked by your ISP to one of them.
In Windoze there's a utility called "ping", which will give you the IP address of any site you specify.
I don't think the MAC O/S has anything like "ping", maybe the MAC folks know what it's called.
BTW, do you submit anything to Dave's site?
If you send him a bunch, he will make a Salaam Allah section under whatever line or city they would go in. Dave has done this for others who submit a lot of pics.
Whats a museum train car doing all the way up in england(Location is Quainton Road, former Met station in the steam days), now a Museum.
I remember seeing and photographing #1144 inside the place in early winter 1984, just before the start of an Branford-sponsored Metro-North/New Haven line fantrip with FL-9 locomotives. Inside #1144 on that cold, snowy day, the car was littered with lots of bathroom toilet and sink fixtures all around. Yep, that car body of #1144 was as sturdy and solid as it could be then, with a giant tall metal mansion-type gate entrance fence leaning on it in a horizontal fashion!!!
-William A. Padron
["Wash.Hts.-8th Av.Exp."]
--Mark
http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/209276p-180387c.html
Bill "Newkirk"
I'm glad wooden stations are landmarked (but personally I'm scared of wooden stations, I'm scared that the wood will crack and just fall down around several hundred feet to the street. At least concrete's more sturdy). It will probably experience problems and potential problems too. Termite problems, wood weathering, problems against fire, etc.
Good luck and all.
Can't happen with Ave H, the stationhouse is already on the ground....
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/06/nyregion/06sketch.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/06/arts/music/06CHIN.html
Thanks
Robert
Robert
Inside, you have two R143 cars that were taken out of a consist (the others are sitting nearby outside). One is propped up on those car body stands. Wonder what's going on with those.
In some cases, the ferry is out of service. I rode the ferry last Saturday. The 4:30 ferry from Whitehall didn't turn for the 5:00 from St. Charles. A different ferry was used.
It was nice to see the Barberi back in service. I couldn't find the plaque with the names of those killed in the October disaster.
Michael
Washington, DC
This policy of forcing everyone off was in place well before 9/11. I always thought it was to prevent homeless from sleeping on the ferry all day.
at least on the Staten Island end.....
did this to wake up the sleeping homeless that ride the ferry at night and so on......
Rip-off is really the only way to describe it. I was looking at the fares to/from the EWR rail station. From most stations, an extra $5 is charged for the airport access fee (e.g. Newark - Elizabeth is $1.80; Newark to EWR is $6.80). But to/from New York, it's an extra $7 - NYP - Elizabeth is $4.55 but NYP-EWR is $11.55.
A traveler from New York can save the $2 by buying a NYP-Elizabeth ticket and then paying the $5 access fee at the airport station. I can't see an easy way to save it going from the airport (except to just go the Newark and then take PATH). Even separate EWR-Newark and Newark-New York tickets are cheaper ($6.80 + $3.30 = $10.10) but I doubt you can pre-purchase the Newark-New York ticket at the airport.
Does NJ Transit really think we're that stupid?
As a way around that financial rape, I would suggest using the NJ Transit's #62 rubber-tired transit vehicle (God-forbid I utter the "B" word here... ;-) from the Airport to Newark Penn Station for $1.10, then connecting to the PATH or NJ Transit rail at that station to go into Manhattan.
I know the $5 is levied by the PA. But my point is that for fares to/from New York, NJ Transit is charging $7 over the base rail fare (New York - Elizabeth fare) rather than $5. I'm sure that extra $2 is going to NJ Transit, not the PA.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Different situation. You can't save money by getting a ticket from Nassau to Jamaica and another from Jamaica to Penn.
The reaosn tickets to Penn and GCT cost more than going the same distance wholly within the burbs is that the MTA has to buy extra equipment to serve the people who want to go into the city. Then that equipment only gets used for 4 hours a day. Suburban travel, while less in volume, is more spread out in time.
Also, there's probably some social engineering involved. Suburban trains make up to some degree for the poor bus service and allow poor residents to get to work at a reaosnable price.
That’s a good reason for different prices for peak and off-peak travel (even for regular commuters), not for inflated prices on tickets to Manhattan 24/7.
Not that drawing such a distinction makes sense. Either transit is worth subsidizing or it isn’t.
And since when do EWR employees not work in New Jersey? I’ll bet some of them live in New York.
CG
Either transit is worth subsidizing or it isn’t.
I don’t think the situation is quite as black and white as you portray it. NJ Transit (and implicitly the State of NJ=my tax dollars) has decided not to subsidize travellers who choose to take AirTrain and NJ Transit to New York.
As Charles G has pointed out, the commuter fares for this ride don’t have the surcharge/no subsidy built in, so the full fare is aimed squarely at the air traveller to New York.
There is no sound economic reason to discriminate with transportation subsidies based on residency.
There is a political reason: politics is in effect a popularity contest, so politicians try to please their potential voters at the expense of others.
No, but the PANYNJ does.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/06/nyregion/06CLOC.html
Peter (Nostalgiaddict) drew my attention to this great page over at Arrts archives.
Here's a link to the history and many old photos of the Fresh Pond station, and of the Glendale station. Anyone even slightly familiar with these areas will find the historical photos fascinating:
http://arrts-arrchives.com/mxpond.html
http://arrts-arrchives.com/glendale1.html
Notice how the third rail electrification from the Rockaway branch extended down onto the Montauk Branch to Glendale.
Here's a fascinating bunch of photos for the location where the M line crosses the Montauk Branch at POND:
http://arrts-arrchives.com/df.html
Continued....
Penny Bridge Station
What is that locomotive? It looks awfully a lot like a MBTA diesel...
Arrt's Archives is as good a resource on the LIRR as this site is for the subway system. Where else can you learn about such obscure branches as the Evergreen and the White Line? It's really cultivated a strong interest in me with LIRR service, past and present, within the city.
Passangers boarding at Fresh Pond and Glendale in these days could easily have electrocuted themselves.
True, but many of the early electrified stations had similar situations. Remember, most stations were low level for years after electrification came through. The Whitestone branch was particularly hazzardous. Not only was the low platforms right at the same level as the third rail, but the third rail was actually at the platform edge as opposed to in between the tracks at College Point station, Whitestone, etc!!! In some photos I have seen, they actually go out of their way to move the third rail from "safely" between the tracks before the stations to moving it to platform edge in the stations!!
I think though it'd be better for them to simply tie this in with the new tunnel under the hudson that NJT is begging for, and from there, follow the ARC plan, which calls for a new tunnel either along or under NYP, then under the east river to LIC, where it'd connect with the Lower Montauk I think(I think there is also a plan to include a track between the new East River tunnel and NYP, allowing trains operating via the lower montauk to go to NYP). It'd probably be cheaper and it serves to purposes at once.
That's a pretty decent idea. One of the problems is the congestion on the mainline (through Forest Hills, etc). It would be great if they had an alternative route. The DM30's could send direct trains from the diesel branches to Penn via the Montauk Branch. The added bonus is the freight. The thing is though that the freight can not go through Penn, so I still think Bay Ridge is better for the Freight tunnel. How would the freight be dealt with if the new tunnel was connected via Penn?
At the east side of NYP, a few tracks would once again merge with the freight tracks, which do NOT go through NYP, but rather below or around it. These tracks that have merged will then go under the East River via a new tunnel, then exit the tunnel onto the Lower Montauk in the LIC area. A new underground LIC station can probably be built under the existing one.
That's the ARC plan(to the best of my knowledge).
My idea is the same sorta. Only difference is that the freight tracks would go under NYP. Once under NYP, the tracks would either:
1. fan out to form a new lower level of NYP(probably 8 tracks wide). All tracks would have platforms, 4 total.
2. The 8 tracks merge into 2 again at the east end, then go up to the Lower Montauk via ARC plan, with a new underground LIC station
or
3. Once comming in from LIC under the east river, the 2 tracks would fan out to 8, with 4 platforms. The 2 centermost tracks would continue into the new Hudson River tunnel, which would also be used by NJT trains to NYP. The other 6 tracks would simply end at the west end of NYP.
The thing with my plan is, LIRR can possibly have room on a new level for some more trains via the lower montauk, which would be all DMs.
NY Daily News story
See, another reason why cameras, from cell phones or digital cameras, are useful in the NYC subway. If the photban took effect, then what will the officer, who was summoned inside the station, do? Write up at $25 summons for unauthorized picture taking of a violent felon who just held up a Payless Shoe store earlier, just because the thug happened to walk into MTA property?
THE SYSTEM NEVER WORKS! IT SCREWS THE INNOCENT!
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Look at it this way. If Robert Mizell hadn't of stuck up that shoe store with a bogus gun, there wouldn't have been any Police action and no innocently shot paralyzed boy.
But since d*ckhead made the choice to commit armed robbery that set these events in motion, he wouldn't be locked up and will do time for armed robbery. He made the stupid choice and now he's slammer bound.
Your suggestion of taking the cops gun and badge away and shooting him in the leg is a bit much. Blame goes to Mizell. I guess criminals aren't one of God's more intelligent creatures.
Bill "Newkirk"
You know people make mistakes. Its terrible that because of people like you, almost always liberal (which I'm assuming you are, because I can't comprehend a conservative making a statement like that)!, a police officer has to always think twice before he pulls out his gun to shoot someone.
I think you should be a shamed of yourself for saying that he should be shot, because he was only trying to protect anyone from being shot by a person who appeared to have a real gun. And if he really did, there might have been a very tragic scene at 4 Ave and 9 St. A lot worse than just some kid who got shot in the leg and released from the hospital on the same day.
-Broadway Buffer
That is not a liberal statement. I consider myself a liberal and I have many friends who are liberal and none of them have ever said anything remotely resembling that statement.
That is a radical statement.
-Broadway Buffer
-Broadway Buffer
-Broadway Buffer
There is no such thing as a liberal extremist. Those are two totally contradictory words.
There are left-wing extremists, socialist extremists, etc. But that's a different set of people.
Incidentally, there are no conservative extremists either. A right wing extremist is a radical, not a conservative.
:)
I welcome the next generation of subway artists...
NY Times link
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/06/nyregion/06sketch.html
It is the trucks that turn somewhat when the wheels go around a curve.
But forgive me, don't know which equipment has and doesn't have the "feature" ... folks like me just boarded, charged them up and did our job number, hoping for lunch on the other end, whatever our interval put in our face. :)
Someone DID mention that the 142's had an extra system on the trucks.
Anyway, here's a picture of R142A trucks, And here's one of R142 trucks. Substantial difference.
John
I get a good look at some Metro North wheels at the rt 311 r/r crossing in Patterson & it just amazes me how small that "extended" section of the wheel is that ...I guess most folks, self included, think holds the train on the rails.
It just amazes me it does.......but WTF....
Actually, they don't need to be all that profound because of one of the other aspects of train wheels that perhaps are noticed only by folks in the shop. The "treads" are not flat, but rather conical in shape (if they were a few feet wide, they'd look like traffic cones) so, aside from curves or excessive track-hunting, the flanges actually rarely touch the inner surface of the rail. Thus, you don't really need much there.
Guess this location.
I wanted to give you the answer, but I thought a second look would be more appropriate. The reason will be the shock value of the answer, especially to one particular Subtalker on this board. Having said all I can, just name the station and location of the mezzanine.
Next time, you can do a search in the Subtalk archives and check only the boxes in the query search.
I hadn't seen the film in awhile and forgot how dark a film it is.
I have a few q's about the film.
Were the scenes at the IRT stations in the first 45 minutes of the film actually 3rd Avenue el stations or were they actual Jerome Avenue stations? The ironwork at the stations in the movie looked to me a lot like the ironwork of the 3rd Avenue el stations in the Bronx.
Also, the far shots of the IRT train heading southbound revealed the stanchions holding up the structure. They looked a lot like the 3rd Avenue el stanchions, which were more ornate than the later Jerome Avenue line stanchions because they were older.
Finally, were the '39 World's Fair cars ever used on the Jerome IRT? Or only on the 3rd Avenue line?
Also - how accurate was the interior of the WF car used in the movie?
I believe the '38 WF Steinways worked the #7 line then transferred to the 3rd Avenue El. They may have seen service on the Pelham inbetweens. Not sure about the Jerome.
wayne
Pretty accurate. The movie company contacted St.Louis Car Co. for original specs and built a wooden mockup of the car.
Bill "Newkirk"
As I recall, either the mockup was built as a double-ended car (cab at both ends), or else they only built part of a car, and shot the same end of the mockup to represent both ends of the car.
By the way, the TV show that it was based on, from 1963 or 64, used a mockup of an I.R.T. standard car.
Guess this location.
I wanted to give you the answer, but I thought a second look would be more appropriate. The reason will be the shock value of the answer, especially to one particular Subtalker on this board. Having said all I can, just name the station and location of the mezzanine.
It's not on the subway. It's in the ZOO. Next to the LION's CAGE.
You can tell this because the tiles are so new and neat, and so unlike ANYTHING on the subway!
: ) The Broadway Lion!
I'm stumped. I'll stop posting.
...now WHY would Kool-D even -BE- near a holding cell??? :P
Regards,
Jimmy
1. The picture is a renovated mezzanine, the first look are the diamonds on the tile band across at the top, that is pure BMT style right there. So we are looking at a renovated are that is along a BMT station.
2. I NEVER stated the station was renovated, just the fare control area around the mezzanine. So the area was renovated, but the platforms and the rest of the station is not yet renovated.
3. The biggest clue that two Subtalkers were eyeing on was the classic 007 "SHOCKING" line, which came from "Goldfinger" (1964). Now mention the word gold, and the likeness of gold would be the BMT Broadway line (even though the trunk line is yellow), so we are looking at any station along the N, Q, R and W lines. Make the answer really SHOCKING as to the location, the only location would be the Sea Beach line and yes I could say if you mentioned any station along the Sea Beach line, I will give you a pat on the back.
The location is 17th Ave P/T HEET entrance of 18th Ave on the the Sea Beach Line. Congrats Arrow III and edk256 for the best answers. (Ironically, me and Arrow III were at that same station with Brian and Fred when we were waiting for a S/B N train to 86th Street as a means to kill some time.)
Oh Fred, did I say THEY ACTUALLY RENOVATED PART OF A STATION ON THE SEA BEACH LINE. NO KIDDING.
It's about time. With the N on the bridge, ridership appears to be rising.
Back when I lived there, it was 630v DC Broad St.-Richmond/Watford Jct(same as LU). When I last went there in 94, class 313 were still using third rail at Hampstead Heath. Class 313 normally runs on 750v when under DC power. Any changes made to the stock so they can run under 630v DC?
Richmond-(630v DC)-Acton Central-(25kv AC overhead)-Camden Rd-(750v DC)-North Woolwich. (Variations before that : Richmond-(630v DC)-Dalston Jct-(25kv AC)-Liverpool St, and Richmond-(630v DC)-Willesden Jct-(25kv AC)-Camden Rd-(750v DC)-North Woolwich)
Euston-(630v DC)-Watford Jct.
Gospel Oak-(diesel)-Barking
Am I right? Is it technically possible to have both 25 kv AC catenary and 750 v DC third rail installed on the same tracks? I don't think 313s are dual-voltage trains; only the 319s used on Thameslink and some South Central services are dual.
Of course. At Acton Central, the 3rd Rail ends at 1m71c, whilst the OHLE ends at 2m07c, giving a dual electrified section of 16 chains! Likewise there is an 8 chain dual electrified section at Farringdon between the Northern end of the station (0m66c) and where the Moorgate branch diverges (0m58c). There is a longer section of dual electrification at Dolland's Moor (between Sandling and the Chunnel). OHLE starts at 66m25c, whilst 3rd Rail ends on the Up line at 67m32c and on the Down at 7.94km(=68m2c), giving 1m7c of dual electfification Up and 1m57c Down.
I haven't been on the NLL fo a long time, and I didn't realise that they switched modes at all - I thought DC third-rail trains ran all the way through, but that certain sections *also* have overhead lines, which are not used by the regular passenger trains.
What dual-mode rolling stock does Silverlink use on the NLL, then?
Class 313/1, 34 3-car units (DMSO+PTSO+BDMSO), numbered 313101 to 313134, refitted 1997-2002 by Bombardier in Ilford, prior to refit numbered 313001 to 313034. The fleet is shared with Euston-Watford.
It must be to let the train in on one and out on the other ! :-)
BTW, after browsing some sites, I was led to believe that Acton Central-Richmond is now 750v DC. It was certainly 630V DC when class 501 were running there. The D stock are supposedly able to handle the 120v difference. (It's just info I got from some sites, not absolutely positive on that one)
'R Stock' used to have problems with blown fuses leaving Richmond- if the 'deadman' was held in 'Parallel'.
The R stock lasted longer than class 501? (assuming class 501 was 630V only)
I was on a northbound (2) train signed up as headed for 148 Street (R142 cars), and before 125 Street, the signs blanked out. When the train got to 135 Street, the crew directed everyone to leave the train, as 135 Street was the last stop, while all the exterior signs continued to flash, "TO HARLEM-148 ST." So everyone got off the train, and waited for the next train to arrive. Many of the crowd got on the next (2) train to arrive, which was going to Wakefield. The remainder got on a (3) train. However, I wanted to ride a (2) train to 148 Street.
When the next (2) train signed for 148 Street came in (and this was a train of R62's), the conductor made an announcement saying that if you wanted to go to the Bronx, get off and wait for a Bronx-bound (2) train. I thought, "OK, this one is running to 148," so I got on. A moment later (and by this time, only those who were headed for 145 or 148 were on the train), the train crew was told to discharge.
(2) to 148th Street. Ha! What a load of bull!
If the train was signed for 148, why not let the train carry passengers to 148, and not let them be PO'd 90+% of the way there? If the "geese" are not intelligent enough to hear an announcement, or read a sign, then they should be penalized for it.
On the upside to this whole ordeal, I did manage to ride a (2) train of R142 cars from 148th Street, but it skipped 145th Street FSSR, and there were no announcements until 135th Street. When the announcements were turned on, the train acted as if it was entering Nereid Avenue, and was reprogrammed at 135th Street, so that it would make proper announcements from there on down.
Here are pics from my journey.
Between Times Square and 72nd Street
72nd Street
96th Street
135th Street
Lenox Terminal
Lenox Terminal.
It's the 148th st station.
Inside this pamphlet, there is a picture showing part of the exterior of the R143, arrow pointed to the exterior speaker, and a caption, "Outside speakers so you can hear train announcements before you get on." In this picture, there appears to be two sets of LED signs, each saying, "L MONTROSE AVENUE,” one in red LED's and one in orange LED's. It looks like two people are holding up the orange LED sign to the window. Were they testing out which looks better?
http://www.nationallampoon.com/flashbacks/deteriorata/default2.asp (about 750k in size, Shockwave Flash)
Back in 1972/73, if you heard it on the radio in NYC, you were listening to my show on either WLIR, WNEW or WPLJ (where they fired me for playing it)
So I left WNEW and put up a pirate FM in the Bronx called WXVU ... played EVERYTHING I wanted. :)
Why did PLJ fire you for playing that? It’s pretty innocuous stuff!
At least that's the way it works at the HUD!!!
But the AM and FM bands are a vast wasteland. E Pluribus Radio.
The MTA really needs to work on it's contingency planning. And if the employee on the platform whom I cursed out for being rude and unhelpful to over a hundred confused people waited for a D train which never came lurks or posts to Subtalk, I'd like to renew my "you're an @sshole" insult, because you sir are a royal one.
Yet at 3:50, still nothing but N's running on the N line leaving Stillwell. Not good.
There was a police investigation somewhere on upper 6th Avenue (47-50, maybe?) around 7. At least one F was sent up the express; V’s were nowhere in sight (although one may have morphed into an E—I did see an R-46 E train at 7th Avenue); my B, which had been delayed extensively (and got stuck behind the aforementioned F express), was sent up the CPW express, but not until 59 Tower took so long to give us the lineup that we may as well have been sent local.
wayne
I was about to say the same thing.
When something out of the ordinary like that happens you have to stop and think. The N's there for a reason. TA brass didn't wake up at 3:20 and say "Hey, we can send Ns to CI."
> There was a police investigation somewhere on upper 6th Avenue (47-50, maybe?) around 7.
You win... a ride on a rickety ols R42. This one was botched majorly too.
Other aspects of this situation were also botched. The N I was on was held south of 86th St for 3 minutes while another N went into service. My train basically ran empty at 10 MPH behind another train. We should have been sent up the West End. There were massive crowds at Pacific St, without a clue that there was no D train service. I heard no announcements, but I wasn't in the station long.
Yes, but what? And when will it be over? Is it a momentary problem? Nothing's worse than taking an out-of-the-way detour right before normal service is restored.
Because they were coming down the West End? If you send Ns up and down on the West End, it leaves no service on the Sea Beach.
My beef isn't with how service was rerouted, but how these reroutes were communicated to affected riders and the indifferent, contemptible attitude the MTA workers showed towards the confused crowd today.
David
It never ended for the F line yesturday. After that mess was done a police investigation and sick customer at Roosevelt made sure the F continued to run late.
And all the complaints about the B&D service during the reroutes and no complaints about the F! During that whole mess we got Bs and Ds constantly but an F was rare. I think at the height of the mess we got an F every 20 min to an half hour because they were being plugged by the reroutes.
KUDOS to Stillwell F who was miraculously able to make all of his intervals pretty much on time, despite the fact his trains were few and far between. I'm guessing he used a few putins early.
In addition B3 was out for a GO at the beginning of this mess, which made things worse. Had we use of B3 Bs and Ds would have terminated at 18th Ave (which happened later on, actually 3 intervals before yours did terminate at 18th Ave). I guess Church Ave never told you but you too were supposed to discharge at 18th Ave (you were the one who did come down the middle in service, right?)
Does anyone know what it is used for? It's visible from the extreme north end of the station.
-Julian
Once upon a time The Franklin Shuttle was The Brighton Line. The platforms at the time were of normal length. Despite the rebuilding of the line, I don't think the platforms have been extended.
"Except there they run short trains so those stations do platform the full length of the train. In that case, you can also include the Franklin Avenue Shuttle."
Read the quote, thats why I said s/he means the normal stations, rather then shuttle. And as you can also see, the station was meantioned before you.
And I never said any time period either -_-, but its obvious hes asking the current and not the past. Do you understand now? Because you always seem to not understand.
"But the Franklin Shuttle platforms were never extended. In fact they were shortened when it was rebuilt in the last few years."
I'm not sure on the length of the platforms, but if there just gonna run a 2 car train back and forth, theres no reason to have a 4-10 car platform.
"Neither were the platforms at South Ferry or 145 Street."
Well its understandable at SF because if they made too much of a curve, it'll end up like CH, disused due to dangerious train access, even with the gap fillers. :/
And I got no clue about 145th St.
"Neither were the the shuttle platforms at TS and GC."
No reason for them to be extended as they became a Shuttle Line, and no need for a longer platform. But wasnt they long anyways, just shortened to make way for that "temp" crossover?
Are we reading the same posting? He is asking: "Are the only two stations in the NYC subway system not long enough to platform an entire train (are) 145th St on the 3 and South Ferry on the 1/9?" Someone else added the shuttle platforms at TS and GC. I saw no mention of "Time Periods" by you or someone else. Place a quote where someone says that. And before you jump on me (again) the Franklin Shuttle platforms have not been extended. And they are still in use as they were 85 years ago when the Malbone St Crash happened. That should satisify your demand for a "Time Period".
"I'm not sure on the length of the platforms, but if there just gonna run a 2 car train back and forth, theres no reason to have a 4-10 car platform." I believe at the time of the Malbone St crash and Brighton Line service running over the Fulton Street El, The normal consist for a BRT train was 5 cars. You probably won't believe me. But I don't care.
"No reason for them (the shuttle platforms at TS and GC)to be extended as they became a Shuttle Line, and no need for a longer platform. But wasnt they long anyways, just shortened to make way for that "temp" crossover?" Who has said anything about why the platforms were extended? It's a given that the platforms were extended several times in the last 100 years. All I read was just a question about "Are the only two stations in the NYC subway system not long enough to platform an entire train 145 and South Ferry?" And the answer is "No. There is GC and TS on the 42 Street Shuttle and the stations along the Frankiln Shuttle." What don't YOU understand about that?
I still said I didnt talk about time periods. And DUH, I knew the Franklin Shuttle platforms were in use, because I been living in Brooklyn for 18 yrs, so I been knowing that. -_-
And quote where I saw the stuff? I already gave you the quotes, dont know what else you want.
"Who has said anything about why the platforms were extended?"
It was a question you "DOUCE" Head. Not a sarcasem question. You always seem to know nothing on what anybody is saying. I been reading, have you?
"What open for service stations in the New York City, New York, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, subway system are currently not long enough in length, as of today, July 8th, 2004, to platform an entire train that typically runs on the line the platform is serving?
I don't have a problem with disparaging comments against Americans in much the same way.
Vertically.
Remember longer is not always better.....it's what you do with it...eh the platform that is .
Seems pointless to me.
At some point they realized that it wouldn't make sense to send all Lenox trains to the Bronx, but that more Lenox service would be needed than Bronx service, so they decided to build a terminal on the yard spur at 145th Street and not build the station at 141st.
The Jerome line was not planned at that time and was not built until 1917. When it was completed, it had a connection to the 6th/9th Avenue els, so there was no need for a connection from the West Side subway. In the 1940s and 1950s, there was a proposal to build a ramp in the Lenox Yard to connect to the 9th Avenue El (over 8th Avenue) and thus to the Jerome Line. It was probably shelved because the Jerome line doesn't need all that much service, especially with the 6th/9th Avenue El connection being effectively replaced by the Concourse Line.
-- Robert K. Elder
Published July 2, 2004
Q. The elevated train sequence from "Spider-Man 2" looks like it could have been shot in Chicago, but isn't Spidey a Manhattan hero?
A. Yes indeed, Spider-Man (played by Tobey Maguire) hangs his web in the Big Apple -- but Chicago provided the backdrop for a key battle sequence in "Spider-Man 2." Explains Richard Moskal, director of the Chicago Film Office: "The director wanted to stage a fight scene between Spider-Man and Doctor Octopus on the top of a moving 'L' as as it carved through the downtown canyons [of skyscrapers]."
But, because Manhattan island has few elevated tracks, director Sam Raimi brought an effects crew to Chicago last year, "to replicate New York with a fictitious sense of geography," Moskal says.
The web-slinger and Doc Ock were digitally added in postproduction. Maguire and fellow stars Alfred Molina, James Franco and Kirsten Dunst were not part of the Windy City shoot.
Even an IRT car is larger/wider....
HA..!..It's Okay..
Spidey can swing anywhere he wants to....
But DON'T DRESS UP CTA TRAINS TO PASS OFF AS OUR GREAT SYSTEM.....
HA..!..It's Okay..
Spidey can swing anywhere he wants to....
[not that there's anything wrong with Chi town]
But DON'T DRESS UP CTA TRAINS TO PASS OFF AS OUR GREAT SYSTEM.....
alrighty then......
LOL
Since when could Spiderman teleport? =)
-Julian
I just used my imagination, thinking that this scene happened on the 3rd Ave El.
Does anyone have a video of the 2200's where the doors open/close? I don't think I've ever seen the doors open/close on those cars.
Try http://www.chicago-l.org/, I think thats where I got the video from. Specifically I think it was taken at O'Hare, so try that section.
Hopefully you enjoy the rest of what OTP has to offer.
Click here
Beep Beep Beep Beep Beep - SLAM!
What are a few notice-able differences between the two????????
On the R142, the top of the front storm door is separate from the rest, on the R142a, it is not. Here is a picture of the R142a. Note the non-separate front storm door.
And here is an R142. Note the separate top of front storm door.
The R142/R142a have different acceleration sounds. The R142a sounds like an electronic whine, increasing in pitch as the train accelerates. The R142 sounds a little like the three note NBC theme (or *slightly* like a violin).
Hope this helps,
--Julian
P.S. Someone should put this in the FAQ!
One is Canadian, one is Japanese. LOL. But some differences are with the LCD(or LED) signs on the sides and route sign. R142's flash while R142A's change instantly. Another is that R142's have a larger storm door window than the R142A and below the side-windows, the R142A has a small belt notch while the R142 has none. Overall, I find the Kawasaki R142A a much better riding car IMHO.
Regards,
Jimmy
-Julian
Was I seeing things? I don't think R40 Slants have been used on the F line since the R46's came out.
David
Don't know if it was a wash run but it was a Concourse-CI transfer.
Wouldn't make much of a noticable difference anyway.
LOL
-Broadway Buffer
I think the washer was out at Concourse over the weekend, so a buncha light trains went back and forth to CIY
-Julian
In fact, I don't remember slants ever being used on the F in the pre-R46 era. I used to ride that line a lot as a kid and I remember riding R1-9's and R-40M's and R-42's, but not slants.
Jimmy
David
Regards,
Jimmy
Regards,
Jimmy
Raeson 2) R-40 slant is going to another yard to get a car wash because Coney Island car is not operational right now.
Reason 3) Some re-rout. Too bad you didn't get the letter on the front.
Thats all I can think of. :-)
-Broadway Buffer
Jonathan
My wife and I want to entertain our kids (girls, 14 and 12) for a few days with a nice amusement park, and the choices are Wildwood, NJ or Hershey Park, PA.
I'm familiar with Wildwood and think it's great. It's about 3x what was Coney Island was 40 years ago, when Steeplechase was still open. For Hershey Park, I worry about long lines. What do you guys think?
Koi
FWIW, my daughter - who has ben to both Wildwood and Hershey - picks Wildwood as the place to return to.
If you like boardwalk strolls, a really nice wide beach, and proximity to Atlantic City (besides the casinos, a nice NJ Transit rail terminal), go to Wildwood. The amusements are all individual but are clustered along the boardwalk. No really big hotels - but loads of small seasonal hotels and motels.
If the beach isn't your thing go to Hershey. It's one large park, sort of a small Busch Gardens without the country themes. Nice exhibit about chocolate making also (no extra charge). Besides the usual small hotels/motels the Hershey folks have one or two large hotels adjacent to the property. For railfans, the RR Museum of Pennsylvania and Strasburg RR are nearby.
Lines can be a problem at both particularly on weekends. Try to go mid-week.
Wildwood or Hersey Park?
I wasn't thinking roller coaster rides when I read it, I was thinking of another kinda....
(Yes, I have a dirty little mind :)
Wildwood also has the CMSL in nearby Cape May Courthouse.
Hershey is a nice park, but it's mostly roller coasters and I'd rather go w/my cousins & friends to enjoy the rides more
To each his own, I guess... we entertained our four children (and now our two grandchildren) with a variety of museums and experiences oriented towards making them better appreciate the world around them - culture, history, science and technology, all types. For what you'll spend at either place you can take them to Williamsburg (and I don't mean Busch Gardens, either), to Boston (but not during the DNC), to Washington, or any number of other places where they will be exposed to the heritage and culture of this country, or even another (Ottawa and Québec City come to mind). From an amusement park they'll come away with a few tacky souvenirs and a passing thrill; from any of the other places they'll come away with a broader outlook on life and a better appreciation for the world around them.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
(Side note: when I was their age the museums of New York were all FREE and accessible, and the big libraries were open long hours, and I enjoyed them to the hilt; but don't take my memories of Coney Island away)
If your daughters love rollercoasters, then Hershey Park would be my choice hands down. The lines are not that bad; I was just there a few weeks ago, and all I did with my kids was go on the rollercoasters, and we didn't wait too long for any of them. Hershey has several wooden rollercoasters including one that that has two trains racing each other. I think the park has 11 overall.
If you would rather have more of the general experience "Coney Island" style, then go to Wildwood. But good luck trying to get a hotel / motel room there now. I'm sure you'll find one, but it might be $$$$.
And there's always that "tramcar" on the Wildwood boardwalk, and Sea Shell for ice cream ... yum !!
--Mark
8?D Jimmy
Gray US flags
Gray yead stickers
Gray interior
Gray motorman!!!!!!
Nice try faker! Go get yourself a frap-a-chi-no while you go think up another one. And I suggest you get a venti one with an extra shot of espresso, cuz you're gonna be up for a while being able to make something which will actually trick us.
;-) Broadway Buffer.
The Kerry camp leaked some disinformation to the PEST. They sucked it up hook, line, and sinker. That is called Conservative MANAGEMENT 8?)
Well, I guess the Kerry camp would never leak any disinformation to the Old York Times, cuz they would never want to misinform other liberals.
God forbid he becomes president & will seriously need some liberal management. I already need it just to tolerate liberals like yourself. And I think we should bring back the K train just for him. It can run through Manhattan on either 6 Ave or Bway and end up in what I've gathered to be a liberal area, Sheepshead Bay!
-Broadway Buffer
I need liberal MANAGMENT!!
Year 2035 News
Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions in the seventh
largest country in the world, California.
White minorities still trying to have English recognized as
California's third language.
Spotted Owl plague threatens northwestern United States crops and
livestock.
Baby conceived naturally... Scientists stumped.
Couple petitions court to reinstate heterosexual marriage.
Last remaining Fundamentalist Muslim dies in the American Territory of
the Middle East (formerly known as Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, and Lebanon)
.
Iraq still closed off; physicists estimate it will take at least ten more
years before radioactivity decreases to safe levels.
France pleads for global help after being overtaken by Jamaica.
Castro finally dies at age 112; Cuban cigars can now be imported
legally, but President Chelsea Clinton has banned all smoking.
George Z. Bush says he will run for President in 2036.
Postal Service raises price of first class stamp to $17.89 and reduces
mail delivery to Wednesday only.
35 year study: Diet and Exercise is the key to weight loss.
Average weight of Americans drops to 250 lbs.
Massachusetts executes last remaining conservative.
Supreme Court rules punishment of criminals violates their civil rights.
Average height of NBA players now nine feet, seven inches.
New federal law requires that all nail clippers, screwdrivers, fly
swatters, and rolled up newspapers must be registered by January
2036.
Congress authorizes direct deposit of illegal political
contributions to campaign accounts.
Capitol Hill intern indicted for refusing to have sex with congressman.
IRS sets lowest tax rate at 75%.
Florida Democrats still don't know how to use a voting Machine.
Koi
http://english.eastday.com/epublish/gb/paper1/1323/class000100005/hwz201820.htm
http://www.iht.com/articles/528262.htm
http://www.nypress.com/17/27/news&columns/RichardKostelanetz.cfm
The "press" hasn't been scoring well lately. :(
Plus about 15 minutes walk from Brighton Station to the beach (I walked it yesterday). But it *isn't* the tube, it's national rail. Even closer to London is Southend-on-Sea, which has pretty frequent trains on two routes, but is still not on the tube. No real sea is accessible by the tube. Berlin's Wannsee is a pretty big lake, and in the days of the Cold War and the Wall, it was the best that the West Berliners could do for the "seaside".
London Victoria 1002 (front part of train!)
Chichester (Station) 1148
Chichester (West St) 1205
West Wittering 1227
Journey time: 2 hours 25 minutes
Very OT, but vines will grow in Sussex, so there must be quite a bit of sun on the English South Coast.
Anyway, other capitals of the world that have beaches accessible by public transport in an hour or so exists. I'd rather not limit the mode to the subway if the luxury is to "leave at noon, swim for an hour and even take a nap before returning home for dinner". You can do that in Tokyo and Athens as well. There are probably others too. Also the writer seems to think that NYC is the capital of the US.:p