 | |
| |
-Chris
-Chris
A whole line? Maybe. First I want to see if and how am I going to make my own site. Then i'll have a line.
BTW, if you have a chain of pics that you want me to make into a "GIFimation", just post em.
-Chris
Seriously, it looks good.
-Chris
Clear branding and signage with named lines and designated platforms.
A service at least every 15 minutes throughout the working day at all times when the line operates.
Standards of station cleanliness, safety, and maintenance.
Easily identified stopping patterns.
Then do any of the lines in London count as metro services? Shenfield Line is closest I think but falls down on service frequencies evenings and weekends.
Some Underground lines do not qualify. Woodford to Hainault and Rickmansworth are obvious. Any others?
A service at least every 15 minutes throughout the working day at all times when the line operates.
Standards of station cleanliness, safety, and maintenance.
Easily identified stopping patterns.
Then do any of the lines in London count as metro services?
Not exactly. Maybe a case could be made for Thameslink, but even that does awful things evenings and weekends, and of course there's a lot of track-sharing with other lines (which would disqualify the Bakerloo Line too).
Some Underground lines do not qualify. Woodford to Hainault and Rickmansworth are obvious. Any others?
There are some 20 minute intervals on Ealing Common - Rayner's Lane.
If you're playing the designated platforms game to its full extent, you could probably kill most of the sub-surface lines.
Drastic rail reform call from MPs
Passengers will see a further fall in services without reforms, MPs say Britain's struggling railways need a radical restructuring if they are ever to work properly, according to an influential group of MPs. Network Rail, which owns the track and stations, should be scrapped they say.
And the same goes for the Strategic Rail Authority (SRA) which governs the level of service for passengers.
A stinging report from the Transport Select Committee says both should be replaced by a single, publicly-owned railway agency.
"The government has had years to address the problems of the railway but has failed to take effective action," said Gwyneth Dunwoody, who chairs the parliamentary committee.
Core failure
Some of the strongest criticism is directed at the government-appointed independent rail regulator, Tom Winsor. The report says he has "failed in his core function of effectively regulating the stewardship of the national rail network". The regulator is described as "high-handed" and portrayed as a dictatorial figure who has over-stepped his brief and effectively seized control of the industry purse-strings from the government. As a result "billions of pounds of public funds" are being spent "without full democratic accountability", it says.
The damning report, called the Future of the Railway, is the result of an inquiry into the state of the railways by the Labour-dominated committee of backbench MPs.
Soaring costs
It blames the "continuing crisis of soaring... costs and poor performance" on fragmentation following the break up and privatisation of the railways in the mid-1990s.
Despite privatisation, billions of pounds of taxpayers' money are being poured in the railways every year.
'The government has failed to take effective action'
Gwyneth Dunwoody MP
But less than 80% of trains arrive on time. Latest estimates say it will be five years before performance matches British Rail's best figure of 90% of trains on time. The status of Network Rail, which unlike its much-derided predecessor, Railtrack, does not have shareholders, also comes in for criticism.
'Largely incapable'
Its ownership - split between the railway industry and private individuals appointed to the board - "lacks accountability" and its owners "do not have the incentives to control the company in any meaningful way".
The SRA is described as "largely incapable" of its job of setting standards for the private train companies
"It is simply not equipped with sufficient powers to do the leadership job it has been given," the report says.
Safety on the railways is also scrutinised.
Restructuring call
The relationship between the Health and Safety Executive (HSE), which oversees safety, and the rail industry is "very poor". The HSE is accused of sometimes applying wholly inappropriate standards.
The committee believes a wholesale restructuring of the railways, led by a state-run railway agency in place of the SRA and the Network Rail, would deliver "substantial improvements" for the passenger.
"Unless steps to streamline the present structure are taken now, the service passengers receive is likely to deteriorate further," said Mrs Dunwoody.
Further review
Whether the call for wholesale upheaval is acted on remains to be seen.
But the report is at least timely, coming in the middle of a government review of the structure of the railways, due to issue its findings in the summer.
And it comes a day after Network Rail announced it will spend £26bn in five years to boost train punctuality to 90%.
This reports the conclusions of a Parliamentary Committee. The Government is under no obligation to take any notice of the committee's views. The title of this thread is therefore a little premature, so I've amended it.
The media in the UK is resolutely anti-train, so good news doesn't get mentioned. Most people probably don't know that more trains run now than ten years ago and they carry more passengers. There is also quite a lot of new rolling stock about. When they talk about "a further fall in services" they are referring to cuts made recently - mainly of little-used services - from a level that had previously been increased. These cuts were made mostly to relieve capacity problems at bottlenecks, so that well-filled trains rather than sparsely-filled ones got the available slots. Capacity problems only occur when business is increasing!
This is not to say that there are no problems with trains in the UK - and the lunatic privatisation scheme is the source of many of them. But the impression given that he British rail systyem is in terminal decline is false. If you want to see a railway system in terminal decline, go to New Zealand - alas.
Also a calculated political stab at Tony Blair by Old Labour backbench MP's. Their conclusions reveal that they know very little about railways or railway management.
The media in the UK is resolutely anti-train,
Not so. The media in the UK is resolute in its willingness to criticize anything, train or non-train. The media in UK loves a scandal. The media in UK doesn't report on anything unless it's a scandal, and they report everything as if it should be a scandal, even if it isn't. The BBC is usually not as bad as the others, I am surprised that this passed under the chief editor's knife. Perhaps the popular opinion in the UK is such that the railways are, to use a British word, 'shite'.
If you want to see a railway system in terminal decline, go to New Zealand
Does that mean you haven't seen the railways in Argentina? Yet somehow the likes of Henry Posner III and Ed Burkhardt manages to make it go. Just a question of what kind of attitude you take, really.
AEM7
It's not that easy. Many tracks are used by multiple companies - remember that as well as the multiplicity of passenger train operating companies, there is freight too. That said, there is widespread agreement that separating the management of the trains from the management of the tracks was a bad idea. What there isn't agreement about is what to do now, to put things right. The Parliamentary Committee also made the point (accurately) that there are too many supervisory bodies (the Strategic Rail Authority, Network Rail, the regulator, and of course the Government itself), and no-one knows who has what powers.
It's not that easy. Many tracks are used by multiple companies
And there's the obvious solution to that: merge it all into one company and call it British Rail.
This reports the conclusions of a Parliamentary Committee. The Government is under no obligation to take any notice of the committee's views. The title of this thread is therefore a little premature, so I've amended it.
The media in the UK is resolutely anti-train, so good news doesn't get mentioned. Most people probably don't know that more trains run now than ten years ago and they carry more passengers. There is also quite a lot of new rolling stock about. When they talk about "a further fall in services" they are referring to cuts made recently - mainly of little-used services - from a level that had previously been increased. These cuts were made mostly to relieve capacity problems at bottlenecks, so that well-filled trains rather than sparsely-filled ones got the available slots. Capacity problems only occur when business is increasing!
This is not to say that there are no problems with trains in the UK - and the lunatic privatisation scheme is the source of many of them. But the impression given that he British rail systyem is in terminal decline is false. If you want to see a railway system in terminal decline, go to New Zealand - alas.
Also a calculated political stab at Tony Blair by Old Labour backbench MP's. Their conclusions reveal that they know very little about railways or railway management.
The media in the UK is resolutely anti-train,
Not so. The media in the UK is resolute in its willingness to criticize anything, train or non-train. The media in UK loves a scandal. The media in UK doesn't report on anything unless it's a scandal, and they report everything as if it should be a scandal, even if it isn't. The BBC is usually not as bad as the others, I am surprised that this passed under the chief editor's knife. Perhaps the popular opinion in the UK is such that the railways are, to use a British word, 'shite'.
If you want to see a railway system in terminal decline, go to New Zealand
Does that mean you haven't seen the railways in Argentina? Yet somehow the likes of Henry Posner III and Ed Burkhardt manages to make it go. Just a question of what kind of attitude you take, really.
AEM7
The devil made me do it!
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
The devil made me do it!
Peace,
ANDEE
Great Joke! For a second I thought that Shoreline was going to get a few bucks in movie rentals and find someone to restore the car.
You posted twice.
Bill "Newkirk"
should be the lack of "marquee" was a spelling error.
<color="blue"> should be <font color="blue"> the lack of "marquee" was a spelling error.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
"But he denied that the incident was part of any terrorist plot, insisting that he is a fan of both President Bush and Mayor Bloomberg."
"I like them very much," Quelal told cops. "I like Republicans."
Peace,
ANDEE
I usually get the same train out of Pelham Bay Park in the morning (sometime between 7:20 and 7:45 - I won't mention the exact interval). When we got to 125th/Lex the holding lights were on. I was in the C/R operating car (#7xx6). The C/R ignored them, closed the doors and the train departed. It is not like he couldn't see them because they are located right above the C/R position and in front of the C/R stopping board.
This isn't the first time such a thing has happened.
I wonder what is it that makes a crew member ignore procedure like that.
If he finishes his trip ahead of schedule, he gets a longer break.
The question is where he will be held to schedule. Generally speaking, there are no corrections (holding lights) anywhere along the line until the terminal (for departing trains). Moreover, the rush hour schedules are overly padded.
My observations on the Lex express indicate that trains routinely arrive and depart Grand Central one to two intervals ahead of schedule. Their departures are governed by the signal system not the schedule.
Trouble occurs, when trains departing from a terminal are held to schedule. Following trains are arriving early, however there are no pockets available for them. They line up at the terminal, waiting for a train to clear.
Another problem occurs at the end of the rush hour, when intervals expand from 4 to 10 minutes. The leading trains are already 4 to 8 minutes ahead of schedule. This means that the gap between trains is already 4 to 8 minutes greater than on the schedule, when the non-rush hour train leaves its terminal. This results in a is a 15 minute gap between trains at the end of the rush hour.
The point of the post is to bring out the fact that the event happened and bring up the subject for open discussion.
One point I did not bring up - I like wear my scanner traveling to and from work so I can be "tuned in" and have a slight advantage over my fellow passengers by knowing problems as they are happening. While I can not divulge exactly what said over the radio as the train was leaving, I will say that the comments were not complimentary to the crew.
Why would the T/O be written up as well? The T/O would have seen the lights as the train was pulling into the station. The T/O should have been watching the platform as well and would have seen the lights were still on and not have moved out. Exactly who will be written up will be up to the supervision at 125th.
T/O is not supposed to watch the platform. Just because the holding lights are on as the train enters the station does not mean they couldn't have been turned off as soon as the T/O passed them. Once the indication comes in, the T/O is supposed to go, not double-check on the C/R.
And before you excoriate me with "don't give them ideas" think of it as a motorman's revenge for "partner? Do you have the lineup?" :)
But as I was commenting to Dave in another message in this thread - this whole "A superintendent" dance of today is probably the result of some of us on the D having had a snootful. You'd pull into 145 S/B on center, D Express. You'd have your pawnbroker lights on, compressor would cut out and a CC would come rumbling in. OK, fair enough.
Ah, but the CC would dump its load and take off (even though you heard a B rumble in upstairs BEFORE the CC came in against the wall) CC leaves, B couldn't go anywhere. Rot some more ... you'd hear the B take off. Light still on, dead silence aside from antsy geese peering out the front window. Minutes passed. FINALLY the rumble overhead of an a cranking in. Folks started coming down the stairs (WHY people would get off an A train to catch a D that was obviously going to follow was beyond me, but I digress) ... then you'd hear the A take off (compressors kick in again) ...
FINALLY ... lights out, lineup ahead ... AGGGGH. If it's anything like that and I was still out there today, I'd be inclined to close up out of sheer frustration. I can only imagine what it's like there with the A "licensed to kill" the railroad. :-\
And before you excoriate me with "don't give them ideas" think of it as a motorman's revenge for "partner? Do you have the lineup?" :)
I've given up - they don't have ideas, just potty breaks that masquerade as such.
We can't trust C/Rs, so we'll create OPTO to convince everyone we don't need them. While we're working on that, we'll use door enablers, this way the decision of which doors to open is not in the hands of the idiot C/Rs. But lately, we've had a rash of T/Os who can't recognize the color RED on their own, so we'll get those same idiot, untrustworthy C/Rs to ask the blind, untrustworthy T/Os if they have a line-up.
And I was a member of the same TWU that screwed me way back when and an adversarial *NEW* management that had all SORTS of stupid new ideas to screw up the railroad. Fortunately at the time, they hadn't replaced all the old TRANSIT AUTHORITY railroaders with droids. As I've said way too many times, it's a RAILROAD - not a CAMPAIGN committee and I fear that the MTA is like so many other state agencies I've worked for since - full of political hacks and nobody that actually knows the FUNCTION of the agency.
All of my comments though are out of sympathy from one who knows how it was and is disheartened and ASHAMED of what the (ta) has become. :(
David
Whatever happened to "Employees should be aware of their surroundings at all times"?
Between you and me this lack of attentiveness (rulebook or not) leaves a bit to be desired.
You would think some commonm sense would come into play here - but wait - WHAT AM I THINKING???!!! - we are talking about the MTA. Common sense is against the rules.
Between you and me this lack of attentiveness (rulebook or not) leaves a bit to be desired.
What if the T/o's view of the lights were to be obstructed? WHY should he have to watch the platform anyway? Something pertinent happening involving the operation of the train back there?
You would think some commonm sense would come into play here - but wait - WHAT AM I THINKING???!!! - we are talking about the MTA. Common sense is against the rules.
The MTA has far more common sense than most people on this board.
And when something goes wrong, you BOTH "hang" together as far as supervision is concerned. It's unfortunate indeed that someone in the middle closed up when they shouldn't have, but I cannot see how the guy or gal up front is responsible for contradicting the conductor whose job THAT duty is clearly responsible for. When the little light comes on, you release and pull. Once again sorry for chiding in, but if this is SUCH a big problem, then maybe they need to get a few more overpaid beakies out from behind their desk and into the field. :(
Ah Hem... pardon me, but what if the T/O box is on the right side of the train and the platform is on the left. What is he going to do then? Dump the Train and go to the door to look for himself?
I don't think so!
Elias
When I KNEW I was going to be held, I'd often set brake in full serve, center the reverser and step out of the cab and stretch my legs. I'd walk across to the door, even step out on the platform perhaps (had my key if I got "locked out") and in MOST situations, I couldn't see the holding lights ANYWAY even if it was the "offside." Unlike many other places, NYC platforms are pretty long and even when they aren't crowded, there's plenty of signage obstructions alone that makes it nearly impossible to see holding lights from the front of the train.
Does one USUALLY center up and stretch their legs? Nope, not often - and it'd be a REAL problem if required at every "held for a gap" stop. But leaving the cab and getting some air is no big deal - it's just that you're not likely to SEE anything ANYWAY ... and of course that extra second to step back in, throw the reverser and release before slamming the door would definitely screw up the railroad for months. :)
My understanding today also is that you're not supposed to drop your sash anymore either - it was different back in the days when that was your AIR supply. But even then, I'd keep my sash closed just to keep Biff and Bunny Tourista from vexing me with questions whilst waiting for the indication fairy to smile. :)
I probably would have been kinder if it wasn't RUSH HOUR and ANYONE who screwed up the railroad would get an unintended cut and add at the hands of the TMO.
On the rare occasions that I do look at the platform, it is most definitely NOT to see the holding lights. In general, having stopped the train in the station, I make sure that the leaving signal is clear and then watch the indication. When it lights up, we go.
Whatever happened to "Employees should be aware of their surroundings at all times"?
While in the locked cab, I AM aware of my surroundings. If I go sticking my head out the window, I have to watch for idiots approaching me. If I wanted to do that I would have remained a C/R.
Between you and me this lack of attentiveness (rulebook or not) leaves a bit to be desired.
I'm very attentive to what I'm supposed to be doing. My attention would be drifting if I started watching what other employees are doing.
(that's why I was always glad to have my company issued yellow "board of education" next to me in the cab - sometimes you HAD to use it)
You musta worked the A. :)
David
I think CI or Car Inspector too, RCI goes on the road to trouble shoot problems with cars while a CI works on cars in the yard.
I'm guessing I'm baking the christmas cookies. What flavor: IRT, BMT...or that other certain organization? :)
I'm thinking of baking of an Arnine cookie...but it isn't Atkins friendly. Take that Bloomy!
Now it's up to us to think of an area on where to have a Christmas party....Grand Central has a tree during the Christmas season, doesn't it?
Unless your at some odd terminal, like Bowling Green. Here we have only Yellow lights - if you're a 4 or a rush hour 5, you hold until they go out; if you're a mid-day 5, you go when they go on.
The yellow lights are to hold the train for a connection.
There are no red ones.
Have i understand the task of holding lights correct:
The holding lights are turned on by the tower to give the order to wait
for a connecting train?
If so: Looking at the time and day it's the morning rush. Why should be
there be a connection??? Following train departs only few minutes later.
Suppose there is a train stuck in the tunnel ahead, maybe even in the next station. The Signals would be green, but you would not want to be stuck in a tunnel, now would you? So the holding lights are turned on to tell the C/R not to close the doors.
The instruction not to hold trains for connections applies to the person running the holding lights, not to the C/R who needs to obey them.
Elias
I think he clearly ignored them. He was probably in a rush that day or something.
-Broadway Buffer
D.W.E.L well
I won't say anything else but I know this train was an extra. This was different from the S/B 6 local trai that Allan observed.
Once the T/O has a lineup and indication, it's his turn to move the train. His job does not entail sticking his head out the side window. (Half the time he's on the wrong side anyway.)
In London,when a 'Guard' was on each train a Platform Repeater signal half way along the platform indicated to the Guard if the starting signal was clear or not and the Guard would not close the doors if the starting signal was at Stop.
The 'Signalman' could hold the train to time by keeping the starting signal at Stop.
Should the train need to be held in the platform where the starting signal was an Automatic the Platform Staff would need to advise the Train Crew verbally .
Better hurry while you can!
#3 West End Jeff
I am not an expert in quantum mechanics but taking up that offer would violate the Temporal Prime Directive.
Just look at the caption below the photo, 'nuff said.
Man did I get an April fools joke BIG TIME!
#3 West End Jeff
If you use that station everyday, it should be the easiest picture to identify.
But then, when you think about it - I don't either.
Jeffrey Klein of East Stroudsburg and Brett Birdwell of Stroudsburg, who were both 17 at the time, claim the rail companies failed to post warning signs about the danger of electrical arcing from the overhead wires.
When electricity arcs, it leaps from a wire to person, even though the person has not touched the wire.
The teens climbed on the train in Manheim Township in August 2002 to check out the view.
Norfolk spokesman Rudy Husband declined comment, citing the pending litigation.
In the suit, filed this month in U.S. District Court in Philadelphia, Lancaster attorney Joseph Roda said Klein was zapped with 14,000 volts of electricity from the "arcing."
The federal government has urged the railroad industry to post the warning signs, the suit contends.
http://www.darwinawards.com/
Not necessarily ... they were roasted medium-well over most of their bodies ... that might include certain appendages, if you catch my drift :)
Assuming this story is being reported fully accurately, then Norfolk Southern should consider a countersuit for malicious prosecution. The railroad can ask a judge to assess damages against the dishonest attorney representing these two idiots.
Peace.
ANDEE
You are sure having a great April Fool's morning. I like that picture.
CREATIONISM FOREVER!
DARWIN FOREVER!
Did you read or see the play (or movie) "Inherit the Wind," based on the Scopes trial? There is a phrase in there that the secular, liberal lawyer says from the bible: He that maketh trouble in his own house shall inherit the wind.
This made me think about how defjef causes the board to have an uproar, and that we could potentially have nothing, that is, a shut-down Subtalk. Thanks for making that post, which triggered that thought train.
If you had known some of the posts that I have previously made (I'm not blaming you if you don't), you'd know that there's no way I'd believe in creationism. People who believe in creationism don't say things like "I do not believe in any deities."
Your pal,
Fred
Since they didn't touch the 14kVolt line, much of the voltage drop would occur in the air between the line and their bodies. They may only have received 220 volts or something like that.
Mathematically, voltage received by bodies =
(14,000 Volts) * (resistance of bodies)/(resistance of bodies + resistance of clothes + resistance of air)
If this story is an April Fool's joke, sobe it - but the story is plausible enough to not dismiss out of hand.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Your pal,
Fred
Two, I don't see how this is 'encouraging' anything. The answer to "can one sue" in this country is "yes". You can always sue. If these morons win that will encourage more lawsuits.
Everyone needs to write their legislators and urge them to adopt the "Rest of the World System" of lawsuits where the loosing party is liable for the winning party's reasonable legal costs. This way people stand to loose money on long shot suits.
Doesn't work. If you have no assets, you have no problem suing because you can't pay the winning party's legal costs anyway.
AEM7
This issue is actually quite serious. First whenever something happens in court, somebody has gotta pay the legal cost. Lawyers gotta eat too. And they have to buy their yachts.
Question is who. The problem with the American system is well known, and has been discussed. The problem with the Rest of World system is not well known, at least not to Subtalk. Now, let's suppose auto A gets rammed by auto B; apparently auto B's fault but there were no witnesses. Auto A is uninsured and the owner is poor, and auto B belongs to a large fleet. Insurance company B offers to settle for $10,000, whereas owner A needed $15,000's worth of hospital treatment. That leaves owner A $5,000 short.
Under the "U.S." system: owner A goes to one of those no-win, no-fee lawyers; sues owner B, insurance carrier B, and driver B. If owner A loses, the lawyer A just wasted his time; if owner A wins, lawyer A makes some money and insurance carrier B or owner B settles.
Under the "Rest of World" system: because owner A has no assets, and at best a 50/50% chance of winning, owner A will not get representation. Potential lawyer A's will be afraid of becoming liable for legal costs to insurer B or owner B if they lose. Therefore owner A will never get (as he sees it) justice and insurer B would get away with offering owner A a smaller settlement than damages caused by driver B.
The right solution here is to change legislation to disallow frivolous cases or make them more difficult to win. The solution is not simply to make lawyers liable. Esp. where public prosecution/government legal aid is involved, there is much more of a problem.
I agree in principle that lawyers are unnecessary and if everyone would be fair then there would be no need for lawyers. But this world is not fair, especially when you're in a shady business like insurance, risk management or financial management.
AEM7
This happens in the US also, but it is not a well-known fact outside legal circles.
The likelihood of this occurring depends on how determined the defendant in a frivolous suit is to fight back, and if he has a good lawyer who knows the rules.
Fighting back against frivolous suits is really only an option in lawsuits between two corporations (which are almost never "no fee").
CG
Not entirely true, though often true. You didn't see my other post in the thread. The lawyer who directed the case is not "judgment proof" and judges have ordered the offending lawyer to pay the maliocious prosecution judgment.
"Fighting back against frivolous suits is really only an option in lawsuits between two corporations (which are almost never "no fee"). "
Physicians are starting to do it too, and some have won significant judgments against both plaintiffs and their lawyers.
Owner A still has a lot to lose...
If Owner A loses, he may not owe the law firm, or lawyer any "fee", but will certain have racked up a ton of "expenses" along the way which are in fact recoverable. It's usually in the fine print of those "No win No fee" lawyers' ads.
The only damages that Owner A would have left over are damages to his vehicle (which would be settled between the two insurance companies) and non-economic damages ("pain and suffering"), which really is a non-issue outside North America (in terms of dollar compensation).
And the solution to this problem is that which Herr Railnut pointed out.
Not entirely true. I know of cases where the attorney advising his/her client to file a frivolous lawsuit was subsequently ordered by a judge to pay damages assessed in the course of a successful countersuit by the other party.
John
Peace,
ANDEE
And with debt service going up, and the bond rating going down, you wonder why NY State has no money to fund the MTA these days.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
No, but maybe this will result in a significant reduction of cab blessings.
And we were PROMISED by both parties, "it's ALREADY in the bag, it's ALREADY done - ladies and gentlemen, THIS year we're going to do it ON TIME." REMINDER: Every one of them is up for re-election this year. Be "governed" accordingly ... oink.
The whole station is in the process of being renovated for ADA compliance, which is a Good Thing, but why the work on the middle platform?
Or is this going to be like the Bowling Green rehab, where they renovated the shuttle platform even though there were no plans to use it?
Zach
D to Brighton Beach!
While this is happening all downtown trains use the local track.
The "fare" for the trip is collected on the train.
That can not be true, because I've descended upon the middle platform much earlier than "shortly before 10:30am." So Chris is not "completely correct."
I was guesstimating. The moment we're allowed down onto the middle platform has varied. On the Saturday trip last December, Bill let us down a good 20 minutes before the train arrived.
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
On MOD trips, tickets are generally checked on the train (either while in motion or while stopped on a track that isn't in regular use, like the Chrystie Street cut), although there have been exceptions.
And if they were to renovate the platforms at Columbus Circle, don't you think it would look bad if they left the middle one all old and dirty in plain sight? I think they will keep the appearance of the middle platform basically in line with the appearances of the other two platforms.
til next time
Bush has no hope whatsoever of winning New York no matter what happens with Penn Station. Kerry could run the worst possible, scandal-beset campaign, and he is guaranteed to win the city and state.
If he wants a place where no trains are running underfoot, why not have the RNC in the woods in the middle of one of those big empty red rectangular states? Come to think of it, that's where most of his voter base comes from...
Because those "Big Empty Red Rectangular States" don't *have* any woods.
See:
Besides:
1) We get MORE representation per capita than you do, and
2) We elect DEMOCRATS to congress (to get more money for our states)
3) We elect REPUBLICANS to the White House (to keep our taxes down)
Elias
Run TRAINS not Polticians!
Why yes, as a matter of fact there is.
It even has a sewage lagoon over in the east corner.
: ) Elias
Not only that, but it will make no impression on the lagoon at all!
If you look in this thread, you'll see that the first post listed is not in fact the first post. I've had first posts that worked properly back into the 1998's. What happened to this one?
If you remember from the Chestnut St incident in Philly, the Feds do not have the power to shut down a local street for security reasons. Thank god Mayor Street had the balls to put the kibosh on their paranoia.
--Mark
I compiled some photos from recent loiterings at Stamford and South Norwalk and in and around New Haven.
Enjoy!
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
http://www.transitgallery.com/data/ad61ab143223efbc24c7d2583be69251/full_265_p9306.jpg
I've only seen these in action lately. They used to run a couple of F-7's as well, but I've not seen them in a long time.
They purchased the GP40 machines refurbished in 1996. This site features their rolling stock and other SLE stuff.
Your pal,
Fred
For now, the six subway lines that run alongside the Garden on Seventh and Eighth Aves. will remain open but won't stop at 34th St., government officials told the News.
Read the rest here
Here's what I'd do.
1: 242 St to Times Square
2: Wakefield to Times Square. Local south of 96th Street
3: 148 Street to 96 Street
9: South Ferry to 14th Street.
13: Flatbush Avenue to Chambers Street
Shuttle buses between 14th and Times Square
A: Replaces D between 145th Street and West 4th.
B: Follows Q to 57th Street.
C: Replaces B between 145th Street and West 4th.
D: Broadway-Lafayette to Coney Island
E: Follows regular V between 5th Avenue and West 4th.
F: Some trains run on the G between Roosevelt Avenue and Bergen Street
Shuttle buses between West 4th and 59th
LIRR: Trains scheduled to terminate at Penn Station will be diverted to the Flatbush Avenue terminal.
NJT: No trains between Newark and New York. Some trains diverted to Hoboken.
AMTRAK: Trains coming from Boston will stop at Sunnyside Yard, then pulled by diesel locomotive to Hunters Point Avenue station. Trains coming from Philadelphia will go as far as Newark or Hoboken, where PATH service is available. Trains from Albany will run to Grand Central Terminal.
Bus service links PATH 33rd Street station and Grand Central Terminal.
Move the Convention to Baghdad.
:( Elias
What a great way to encourage people to use mass transit by taking it out from right under them!
--Mark
No matter what, there should be NO CLOSURES WHATSOEVER.
too bad - sounds like ALASKA would be a nice place for it ;-)
By the way, here's some data from the U.S. Census Bureau. In fiscal 1999, when New York City was booming, it received 2.89 percent of federal spending with 2.85 percent of U.S. population. In fiscal 2002, the year after 9/11, New York City received 2.76 percent of federal spending. These figures understate the city's share of federal spending somewhat (unallocable spending in U.S. total but not NYC) but not the fact that it went down. Our share of federal taxes is higher.
One reason why NYC gets a low percentage of federal spending is because it has no significant military bases within its borders.
"Hey look, New York City got attacked, but Fargo's still there. Homeland Security is a SUCCESS."
SOME DAY we'll finally be able to see the balls of our leaders. In a museum. :(
Meanwhile, we're told to soil our pants, we're all going to die UNLESS we re-elect MORE of this nonsense. If we nuke Mecca, it'll be the downfall of the house of Saud. I don't see a downside here aside from Halliburton's stock prices and maybe Mob-On oil. The ONE thing I learned growing up in New York City is that if you're crazier than anyone ELSE on the train, you GET a seat ... as MANY as you want. :(
Maybe it's just time to take them all out if THIS is the "world the repubicans have given us and our children to live in. "Bring it on." I'd rather be dead than governed by wusses passing the sweet and sour shrimp while our kids die to fatten Cheney and his pals. :(
Will Japan and China boycot them too? I think not.
That strageic reserve is not what you think it is.
Some of it is raw oil, but is it light sweet, or is it only good for bunker charlie. The Navy uses bunker charlie, and that is mostly what the reserve was set up for.
Anything can be refined, but if you have to pay Americans to do it the price will be very high indeed.
Elias
America's so hopelessly addicted to cheap oil that it would be a disaster for the U.S. economy. Instead of driving less, people will keep on driving just as much as always, and spend less on everything else.
Fortunately they've seen the light and this time around (as of now) trains will just skip 34th.
It was during the 2 month Subtalk hiatus, so it took place on Harry's board:
http://www.nycrail.com/cgi-bin/messageboard/messages/1443.html
The above link was the mother of all threads that started the whole 76th Street phenomena. There were some threads that started earlier, but the above thread by the now "David of Broadway" is the thread that gave 76th Street in the same category as the Bermuda Triangle, ghosts, and UFO's.
Here's another link I found that started within minutes of DavidG's thread. The first of many. The rest is history......
http://www.nycrail.com/amb/board1/1444.html
Due to lengthy SJRL headways, I'm thinking it might save time and money by driving from Queens to either Metuchen or Edison and grabbing NJT to Trenton. Don't laugh- if I leave home before 6:00 AM, I can make it to the GSP/US1 junction within an hour WITHOUT PAYING ANY TOLLS. This could conceivably have me on the Trenton-bound 7:23 or 8:01 out of Metuchen- which would allow me a lot more time in the Philadelphia area that would otherwise be spent on the subway, PATH and NJT. Both localities are easily accessible from the Parkway going and the Outerbridge coming home.
A look at street maps and previous drives around the area reveals a few residential side streets near the Edison station and a heavily developed residential/commercial area around Metuchen. It appears that there are a number of Subtalkers who live in the general vicinity who might know if I stand a chance of getting a street space near either station early in the morning on a half-holiday. Are there widespread parking restrictions such as those that exist for many blocks around some LIRR stations?
Another thing I'm wondering is if the heavily discounted off-peak round trips are available between either station and Trenton. Or is this just a perk offered from the inner terminals of Penn, Hoboken and Newark? In any event, it should be cheaper than the $15.75 off-peak round trip from Penn to Trenton or the $11.00 (plus $3.00 round trip on PATH) from Newark. Even factoring in the $6.00 toll on the inbound Outerbridge, it would still be a bargain- especially if I get a chance to buy cheap Jersey gas as long as I'm in the area.
I had considered driving all the way to Trenton, but it seems doubtful there'd be much street parking available around its transit hub. Many people have reported the area to be unsafe for parked cars. Trenton's a pain in the neck to drive to, anyway. It's either via toll-free, traffic signal-laden, suburban sprawl-congested US1- or the expensive Turnpike, from which you still have to take a roundabout route on I-195 and city streets to get to the station.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
I haven't been to the area in quite a while, but I think there were restrictions on nearby street parking. Metuchen seems like a nice little town -- you could probably safely park a quarter mile from the station on a street somewhere and walk if the weather is nice.
You can daily park at Metropark for a few bucks. Or, you could park free at the Menlo Park mall and catch a shuttle bus over to the Metropark station.
CG
The chief of the NYC subway, Michael Lombardi, has also joined the delegation. Even though the subway of Rotterdam is a baby brother compared to the hugeness of the NYC subway, we have 72 kilometres of trackage (45 miles), 47 stations and 150 trains, Lombardi acknowledged that we share the same problems (albeit on a different scale).
http://www.retmetro.nl/nl_nieuwsitem271.htm (courtesy of retmetro.nl)
Some background information: the station this report is taped in, is Wilhelminaplein. This stations was opened in or around 1996, and it was built while the trains were still passing through it in their normal schedule. The platform slopes down, as the tunnel dives under the Maas river. The station is one huge space (it is incredible), supported merely by the columns in the middle (silver). This is possible because the roof is 2 meters thick. Even though newer stations have opened, Wilhelminaplein remains (in my opinion) the nicest one, because of its vastness.
The train you see is a "Bommetje", a type designed by Bombardier. They are more quiet than the preceeding set of trains (which have, unfortunately, landed on the scrapheap). The maximum speed is 100 km per hour (63 mph), however the speed limit on certain parts of the track is 50 mph (80 kph) (there is testing of a higher speed on some sections of tracks though).
If you want more details, just ask.
Niels
It's not that easy. Many tracks are used by multiple companies - remember that as well as the multiplicity of passenger train operating companies, there is freight too. That said, there is widespread agreement that separating the management of the trains from the management of the tracks was a bad idea. What there isn't agreement about is what to do now, to put things right. The Parliamentary Committee also made the point (accurately) that there are too many supervisory bodies (the Strategic Rail Authority, Network Rail, the regulator, and of course the Government itself), and no-one knows who has what powers.
It's not that easy. Many tracks are used by multiple companies
And there's the obvious solution to that: merge it all into one company and call it British Rail.
Subject: The Italian Honeymoon!
After returning from his honeymoon in Florida with his new bride, Virginia, Luigi stopped by his old barbershop in Brooklyn to say hello to his friends.
Giovanni said, "Hey Luigi, how wasa da treepa?"
Luigi said, "Everytinga wasa perfecto except for da traina ride down."
"Whata you mean, Luigi?" asked Giovanni.
"Well, we boarda da train at Grana Central Station. My beautiful Virginia,
she pack a biga basket a food. She broughta vino, some nice cigars
for me, and we were looking a forward to da trip. Everytinga wasa Okey Dokey
until we getta hungry and open upa da luncha basket. The conductore
come a by, waga hisa finger at us anda say, 'no eat in disa car. Musta use a
dining car.
"So, me and my beautiful Virginia, we go to dining car, eat a biga
luncha and start to open a bottle of nice a vino! Conductore walka by again,
waga hisa finger and say, 'No drinka in disa car Musta use a club a car.'
"So, we go to club car."
"While drinkina vino, I start to lighta my biga cigar. The conductore, he
waga his finger again and say, 'No smokina disa car. Musta go to smokina car.
"Then my beautiful Virginia and I, we go to sleeper car anda go to
bed. We just about to go boomada boomada and the conductore, he walka
through da hall shouting at da top of hisa voice, 'Nofolka Virginia! Nofolka Virginia!'"
"Next time, I'ma gonna take a da bus!!"
[I know there are no long distance trains at Grand Central]
Not only that, but no southbound trains.
Haha! Non uccida il messaggero. Non ho scritto lo scherzo.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Now let's see what the builders can do.
Elias
And yes, this implies that from the Fulton-Bdwy-Nassau 2/3/A/C stations, you'll be able to take the train or walk to Park Place-Chambers St.
Of course, that transfer won't be free. But you will be able to use your MetroCard.
Take a gander at this for example:
This is where the MTA will build a new, streamlined transfer. The futuristic look rocks, almost as much as that 'skeleton' thing the new entrance will be like.
-Chris
The available literature doesn't promise one, which suggests that it probably isn't in the cards. I suspect it wouldn't be a commonly used transfer, and extending the fare control that far west isn't a trivial matter.
http://www.straphangers.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000380
An April Fool's joke??? I wonder.
Also, the R-32 sidesigns have the bullets in both Helvetica and Akzidenz.
I've always liked the Akzidenz R better.
But to go back on topic, i think that pic of the "11" is indeed a fake. :)
:0)
Then again, it might be this train:
Your pal,
Fred
If you want to see a REAL fools thread from RD, look at this one.
Til' next time,
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
And as far as those services:
E - There's a very popular line with this designation...
H - Used to be the designation for the Far Rock shuttle.
I - Looks too much like a 1.
K - Used to be what the C is now, when the C used to be a rush-only line.
M - There's an M line as well...
O - Looks like a zero?
P - Exists on rollsigns, but New Yorkers are perverts. :P
T - Reserved for SAS, was at one time in service.
U - No idea.
X - Used to be used for a train to WTC. Not sure where it originated.
Y - No idea.
8 - Used to be the 3rd Avenue El, if I recall correctly.
Was that an IRT or BMT designation? Or both?
Read more about it here.
Your pal,
Fred
B. I was originally planning to put up that article on my website at midnight, but then opted for 9 PM.
C. Admit what? Is it a crime to post a fake photo on April fools day? You started the thread on it here...
I figured with all the nonsensical postings we have been getting lately everyone could use a laugh (and something to discuss).
When you post a fake picture (especially on AFD) at some point you are supposed to admit the joke (that the AFD rules).
8-10PM is the high traffic point of the day on my website, according to my statistics.
8-10PM is the high traffic point of the day on my website, according to my statistics.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
BTW, are you gonna be at the Quill tomorrow? Maybe I will. I'll E-mail you tonight.
Note that that's on a Redbird with marker lights ON.
They've even signed up Queensboro Plaza for it, complete with an express version on the trains' rollsigns. (You might want to adjust the brightness and contrast on your screen for this one. Look for a sign under the canopy.)
You can...
Know your Lineup
*DING*
Know your Northeast Corridor Interlocking Towers
*DING*
Know your Single Street Intersections in NYC
*DING*
Know your NORAC Signal Aspects
*DING*
Know your 70's Era Subway Route Colour Codes
*DING*
The first person to choose a category will have a question asked in that category which anyone on Subtalk can answer. The second person to choose one of the 4 remaining categories will have a question asked in that category which anyone on Subtalk can answer.
The first Subtalker to answer each question will WIN BIG*. Note, one Subtalker can only WIN BIG* on one question.
So....WHO WANT'S TO PLAY KNOW YOUR LINEUP??!!
*BIG is a relitive adjetive.
What are these NORAC Signal Aspect and the associated rules?
Right: Stop and stay. The bottom aspect is dark. Scream for help; get orders. If cleared to proceed, then proceed at Restricted Speed until the entire train has: 1. Passed a more favorable fixed signal. or 2. Entered non-signaled DCS territory or 3. Passed a location where a more favorable cab signal was received.
OR, the right-hand photo could have been taken when the bottom aspect was flashing, but "off." So it could be a limited clear,
Right: Stop and stay. The bottom aspect is dark. Scream for help; get orders. If cleared to proceed, then proceed at Restricted Speed until the entire train has: 1. Passed a more favorable fixed signal. or 2. Entered non-signaled DCS territory or 3. Passed a location where a more favorable cab signal was received.
OR, the right-hand photo could have been taken when the bottom aspect was flashing, but "off." So it could be a limited clear or medium approach.
Tricky!
Although the rule for the left signal is Rule 292: Stop Signal: Stop I'll give it to you for all the extra info.
Also, there is no way it could be LIMITED clear. The signal cannot display a straight aspect so from the position of the STOP with the APP SLOW you can infer that the gantry guards a 2 to 1 trailing point turnout. Both signals could never be cleared at the same time.
I'll send you an e-mail with your prize.
Thanks for playing, tune in next Thursday for KNOW YOUR LINEUP.
Track 2
Rule 292 NAME: STOP SIGNAL
Stop.
Too easy, but I had to look it up. And those are small sucker signals. So Medium Speed is like 45mph and Slow Speed is 30mph?
Give me those circle-RR ones any day, JM. Have any good photos of 'em?
Name the builder, type of equipment, and rail line where this piece of equipment is most likely to be found.
MBTA 1029
MBTX 901
Zero Code
Code 1
1. Drinking alcohol and/or using narcotics or drugs of any kind while on duty.
2. Reporting for duty while in custody of children, dogs, cats, or other pets.
3. Committing illegal, immoral, or indecent acts on or off the Authority's property.
4. Temporarily leaving assigned work location.
5. Improper use of Authority cash, float, or other financial instrument.
6. Parking of Authority owned non-revenue vehicles in car wash, car barn, or other servicing areas.
7. Reading any printed material, playing radios, tapes, CD's, television, MP3s while operating Authority vehicles.
8. Any boisterous whistling, shouting, or misconduct while operating Authority-owned cranes.
9. Dumping of home refuse in an Authority provided dumpster.
Your pal,
Fred
Is it really worded like that? It should be "Reporting for duty WITH custody of children, dogs, cats, or other pets." The original quote has the children and/or small animals in charge of the employee. My way at least puts the custodial relationship the correct way.
And Zero Code on the Red Line means? (Ask your Cabot friend)
I'll take Know your 70's Era Subway Route Colour Codes.
If this were the Late Show you'd win some sort of cift certificate to a restaurant, but it's not so until I think of something better you win a big gold route bullet.
Tune in next week for Know Your Lineup!!
Is that 100% true? The switches where the C train goes from Hoyt-Schermerhorn platflorm that it shares with the A to where it merges into the track that runs from Court St is right at the end of the platform. If the film train were to overshoot the station, it could potentially slam into a C train. Do they have to coordinate film train platforming with what is going on with the C train?
Its an NYCT T/O, to him it would be like making any other stop.
Unless he was going too fast, he wouldn't slam into a C.
It's a signal-protected move. There is no more danger than when
an express is crossing in front of a platforming local at any
typical IND station.
Jim.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Why not? They are hauling garbage on the MOD trips as well.
Now you're just being craaazy ....
Ahhh, I set you up and you take it home.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Yes, I know what drugs look like, as I go to a cocane infested school and pot is childs play there.
Is drug use this rampant among T/o's?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Make mine Bambu, please.
A cigar, but with marijuana instead of tobacco.
(Learned this in my BS high school health class - people watch Jay & Silent Bob to frequently :)
And NO, I didn't ... but it was done. However, this story ought to keep the beakies busy. Heh.
Yes, I'm sure they are getting out the old security camera tapes and reviewing them as we speak....
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Some went home for the 6 hours, others hit the gin mills. Sometimes when I'd go to collect my put-in, I'd see some guys off between trains passing around a brake handle upside down. Didn't quite know what that was about until years later. They were using the damned things as HASH PIPES! :(
Wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm not. All I can tell ya is that I wasn't with the railroad long enough to get complacent or stupid. Had I known, I *would* have reported them. Over the years, I've seem some people who CAN handle that - but damned few. I can almost see a conductor getting away with smoking a doobie before another boring repetitive run - but a motorperson? Wow. NO way. :(
Regards,
Jimmy :/
If not, it's an insult to Train Operators everywhere, and, April Fool or not, is not funny in the least.
David
David
He was only rolling it (not using), and the tone of the title of the thread is more casual and it isn't " I saw a train operator with drugs!!!!!"
If anything, have some fun in this thread
This isn't funny. You made serious accusations about a motorman. It's not something to joke about and I personally feel that all such reports here of improper things seen do not belong on this messageboard. They give this place a reputation for having a bunch of snitches who are looking to get people in trouble. If I were working for transit, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with railfans, if they can't keep their mouths shut on a public messageboard.
Elias
Could've fooled me.
Peace,
ANDEE
On the contrary if you saw someone rolling it than you saw him with it! Personally, I find your story lacks any credibility and I'm suprised that anyone here has given it any validity at all. The idea that a person would do what you allege, in plain view of the public, not to mention supervisors, managers and co-workers is beyond rediculous. This doesn't have to be a totally serious venue. there's room for humor and satire if some want to post it. However, I don't think anyone should want to wade around in your garbage.
On the contrary if you saw someone rolling it than you saw him with it! Personally, I find your story lacks any credibility and I'm suprised that anyone here has given it any validity at all. The idea that a person would do what you allege, in plain view of the public, not to mention supervisors, managers and co-workers is beyond rediculous. This doesn't have to be a totally serious venue. there's room for humor and satire if some want to post it. However, I don't think anyone should want to wade around in your garbage.
And people think the city is bad....
Brings to mind the TV commercial that said something to the effect that "40%" of drug use is in urban areas, and asking the viewer to "Guess where the other 60% is?" and showing some kids in a cul-de-sac somewhere in suburbia...
It's true though, I think the burbs got much more of a drug/drinking problem than the city. Every class I'm in someone is talking about how they were piss drunk the night before. There a lot that also come into class stoned off their ass, but they're fun to screw around with.
Out here (in the middle of nowhere... Meth is the biggie. Kids can cook it up from local farm chemicals and OTC stuff. Need a HazMat team to clean up after them.
Insurance pays for 30 days of rehab. Damn stuff takes 180 days to get out of your system. Takes six months in jail to clean a kid up, or would if the stuff were not getting into the jails anyway.
Elias
How is that different from any work situation? And do you really believe them when they say "I was so piss drunk last night"?
AEM7
Makes me miss the city in a way, the people I grew up with seem like saints and super straight edge(even if they were drunks). It wasn't until outside the city, that I swear 100% of the people did something, even if it was just pot. And a few of the people I remember when I was growing up, or maybe it was right after high school told me to just drink and don't do anything else. I guess that's why I brought the average # of drug users down to 98% instead 99%.
And yes, the cocaine thing is true too
Oh, and we also had a freshman down a whole bottle of vodka and pass out a few weeks ago in one the schools staircases.
Did he piss his pants???
Also, from more than 5 feet away I doubt anyone could tell the difference between pot and tobacco.
Peace,
ANDEE
That thought occurred to me too. But are T/Os allowed to smoke while driving?
Peace,
ANDEE
(some folks need Rapid Transit 101 around here!)
But museum visitors (as well as IDIOTS who know NOTHING about trains) actually believe that when they see one, it's a steering wheel and when they DON'T see one, they STILL think the motorperson/engineer/driver has the ability to steer around their stupidity. :)
WEIRDEST damned things were the PCC's (looking back from being born AFTER their heyday) ... everything ABOUT them was a BUS (that GM stole the design for rubber-tired streetcars notwithstanding) except for one MAJOR difference I learned as a kid when I had the opportunity to run a few PCC's on Saturdays on the Newark City Subway (ain't been IN a PCC *since* Newark) was that this BUS had no STEERING WHEEL! Instead, it had like a towel rack on the console which you could hold onto because those babies were PEPPY ... FAR more peppy than *ANY* NYC subway car in acceleration AND braking. If you pushed the pedal, that sucker was there for *YOU* to hold on. Heh.
SO hopefully that explains my madness - those who have operated or ridden PCC's know of which I speak. I *LOVED* those things almost as much as Lo-V's and arnines ...
PCC's were BMT fare, weren't they?
Speaking of the BMT, what do you call your 'favorite.' I can see you've established your Lo-V's and Arnines...
Sorry for my bent on politics as a sideline to how they affect the rails - I come here to enjoy the *TECH* and the *WAR STORIES* ... both have fallen off since our LEADERS would rather we wear diapers than "OK, if these greasa-balls wanna phuck with us, let's break their frigging KNEECAPS and be done with the shivering and panic-attacks". Sorry, TERRORISM is ALL ABOUT making people chit their drawers. And when our OWN GOVERNMENT ENCOURAGES IT, then SCWOO "communism" and all THAT meant - our own LEADERS are traitors when they try to tell us that we *MUST* fear and then RE-ELECT the bastards for PUTTING us here. *TRUE* leaders tell us that "terrorists want us to LIVE IN FEAR ... the ONLY way to combat it is to not GIVE a qwap and move ON with our lives." Instead we have the GOP ad blitz and "well - this SUMMER we're all gonna die." *DAMNED* disappointed in our Depends-wearing leaders and Dick Cheney PERMANENTLY in his damned spider hole except for photo-ops with OIL EXECS. HELL ... if Dick Cheney and our Shrub lives in fear, how can't *WE*? :(
Anyhoo, when I don't have anything to contribute (few folks are interested in "traction past") about all there *IS* for me to get off on is politics. And as long as we have these PHAGS in power in DC and SMALLBANY, we're not ALLOWED to get into the nitty-gritty ... like photography, it's ALL "prohibited thought" ... POLITICS at least *is* still protected - it's my ONLY remaining "approved rulebook" ... :)
As to the BMT, I'm a BRONX boy ... BMT were WIMPS ... they wouldn't DARE come our way. Heh. About all I ever saw remaining of the "old BMT" was the Standards and the bastardized Q cars ... and SOME weird old thing with SINGLE doors and a four-paned weird window in it that I never saw anywhere else ... dunno what it was, but I remember it. If I had to make a choice though, HANDS DOWN I loved the Q's on the Myrtle as OUT AND OUT CHARMING ... then I saw 1227 at Branford which is what the Q's "reverse-evolutioned" from ... for ALL of my favorite BMT, it would *have* to be 1227 at Branford ... the Q's on the MYRT though got second place ... never really saw much else ... :(
OH YEAH! PCC'S!
http://www.nycsubway.org/us/pcc/
Wish I had a "cab shot" to show ya ... but I'm SO old, we didn't have cameras in my day. Heh.
But I remember a single-panel door with four little windows in it like those hopeless old houses had ... all speckled green on the door.
And yes, the C units had single doors with four panes. Unlike the Triplexes, whose doors slid into pockets, the doors on the Cs swung sideways and remained on the outside of the car, similar to Denver's 16th Street Mall shuttlebuses.
Arigato gozaimasu!
Out of curiosity though, where did you get the console shot from? It's everything I remember ... AMAZING how buses stole every nuance of the design of PCC's back in the Mack/GM days. :)
But NCS was where I got me some PCC "pedal time" back in the 1960's. I'm not sure if #6 was on the rails at the time, but they were all painted in the Public Service varnish way back then ...
------------ rerun alert! -------------
Apologies for that ... there's so LITTLE here that really interests me these days - I *worked* transit for a very short period of my life, and looking back after all the years, I'm interested in things beyond "foaming" ... I've personally gotten into the technical discussions (when rarely they occur), but THANKS to Jeff and Dave B, and a few others here for the SIGNALS trips! Thanks go out also to Unca Peter and Train Dude (when not wasting time arguing with those he doesn't care for) for the "propulsky" and "numbers" treats ... and to my fellow CURRENT TWU brothers and sisters for a look inside as to where the MTA went from when they didn't even KNOW they owned a subway to now.
Sorry for my bent on politics as a sideline to how they affect the rails - I come here to enjoy the *TECH* and the *WAR STORIES* ... both have fallen off since our LEADERS would rather we wear diapers than "OK, if these greasa-balls wanna phuck with us, let's break their frigging KNEECAPS and be done with the shivering and panic-attacks". Sorry, TERRORISM is ALL ABOUT making people chit their drawers. And when our OWN GOVERNMENT ENCOURAGES IT, then SCWOO "communism" and all THAT meant - our own LEADERS are traitors when they try to tell us that we *MUST* fear and then RE-ELECT the bastards for PUTTING us here. *TRUE* leaders tell us that "terrorists want us to LIVE IN FEAR ... the ONLY way to combat it is to not GIVE a qwap and move ON with our lives." Instead we have the GOP ad blitz and "well - this SUMMER we're all gonna die." *DAMNED* disappointed in our Depends-wearing leaders and Dick Cheney PERMANENTLY in his damned spider hole except for photo-ops with OIL EXECS. HELL ... if Dick Cheney and our Shrub lives in fear, how can't *WE*? :(
Anyhoo, when I don't have anything to contribute (few folks are interested in "traction past") about all there *IS* for me to get off on is politics. And as long as we have these PHAGS in power in DC and SMALLBANY, we're not ALLOWED to get into the nitty-gritty ... like photography, it's ALL "prohibited thought" ... POLITICS at least *is* still protected - it's my ONLY remaining "approved rulebook" ... :)
As to the BMT, I'm a BRONX boy ... BMT were WIMPS ... they wouldn't DARE come our way. Heh. About all I ever saw remaining of the "old BMT" was the Standards and the bastardized Q cars ... and SOME weird old thing with SINGLE doors and a four-paned weird window in it that I never saw anywhere else ... dunno what it was, but I remember it. If I had to make a choice though, HANDS DOWN I loved the Q's on the Myrtle as OUT AND OUT CHARMING ... then I saw 1227 at Branford which is what the Q's "reverse-evolutioned" from ... for ALL of my favorite BMT, it would *have* to be 1227 at Branford ... the Q's on the MYRT though got second place ... never really saw much else ... :(
OH YEAH! PCC'S!
http://www.nycsubway.org/us/pcc/
Wish I had a "cab shot" to show ya ... but I'm SO old, we didn't have cameras in my day. Heh.
Christ, it isn't like he was snorting one of those blue pill thingies...
Yea, a lot like tobacco.
Judging by your post over on BUSTALK, about the operator running a red light, I'd say this is nothing more than a lame attempt at an April Fool joke, anyway.
Peace,
ANDEE
Or, the old-fashioned way: go to any station agent and he/she will exchange it for you.
You have a year to do this.
(lol)
well-- although this isnt allowed id like
MON-A
TUE-N
WED-F
THU-J or M
FRI-B
-Chris
D to Brighton Beach!!!
Don't Know Why. Nostalgia no doubt for something that never was.
Elias
as a c/r, i would do the g train.........
I think I'd go with the L.
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
The Jerome Avenue line would OK.
N, Q, W, B, V
On another topic late last week while drivin on the Belt Parkway I saw trains going into Coney Island on the Brighton tracks. Does anyone know what they were doing ? Were they testing something ?
Vince
Now if ur talking about the Culver F train, then maybe yes you would see some testing happening, After all Stillwell is opening in a month and a half, and they did lay down all NEW Tracks i believe between west 8th st and Stillwell ON THE F , Im not sure about the Q though..
Usually F when F's terminate at Avenue X, they use the ramp track to "city/Av X " Yard, to relay off of. Also some trains head towards coney island on the regular local track, and then dump by the 10 car marker, there are lit bumpers on top of there too. Basically the F can go as south as to the VERY BEGINNING of the BASEBALL FIELd on Shell rd....
Cant help u with the F express though---- sorry...
D to Brighton Beach!!!
There is no switch after 4 Av going onto the s/b express tracks until Church Av. Chances are the train was cleared away and that's why your train made all regular stops [or a battery run].
I don't really know commuter rail. Are those locos supposed to be paired up with those MNRR cars sitting there?
~~ Reggie D.
Reggie D.
Reggie Dunbar Jr.
Sorry... I was addressing "RSTN," not you.
Your pal,
Fred
Click Here
I made this site with, what I consider, the best free hosting around-freewebs.com. Now, they do give you an annoying URL, but there are NO ads, EXTREMELY EASY online editing, professional looking templates, easily add HTML/Flash content and easily change the template/look of your site with one click. I would recommend this to anyone who wants to have a nice transit site or whatever site. They even have paid services w/ real domain names. Click here for freewebs.com
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Chris
http://www.davesrailpix.com/nyc/bqte.htm
There's some very interesting stuff there, including the below photo of #1000 prior to the accident which destroyed its original front end. There's also a photo of work car #9813, which looks a lot like #1792 at Branford. That got me to thinking - was #1792 ever rebuilt into a work car, or did Branford acquire it straight out of passenger service? For that matter, when did Branford get it? Thanks.
Frank Hicks
Frank Hicks
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/02/arts/design/02INSI.html
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
I'm sure if somebody scored this bill to figure out which states were getting an "unfair" advantage, they'd be all of the projected swing states in the upcoming election.
CG
Watch what happens after the RNC. You probably won't see Bush in NYS again more than two or three times before the election (and those times will be in already Republican districts). You won't see much of Kerry either -- he'll just stop by the heavily Democratic areas for some token campaigning.
Yet they'll be in states like Michigan, Florida and even California on a weekly basis.
CG
If it's a very close election, probably only Florida, Ohio, and (to a much lesser extent) W Va and NH matter at all. Kerry has to win everything Gore won, and one or more of those states.
If you vote Republican, then you want more highways and less rail. Are we supposed to vote this way to get pork every now and then? We are never going to be one of those swing states which is why we have to vote for those who are working to improve public transportation.
Absolutely true. Unfortunately, I can't see how this ever will change.
Let me see if I can get thes straight.
You got a Republican Govenor,
You got a Republican State House,
You got a Republican Mayor...
And the Republicans have written you off...
And the Democrats are taking you for Granted???
Interesting
NY's Democratic congressional contingent knows they are for the most part invincible -- look at the margins of victory they typically put up. 92-8 and 87-13 are much more the norm than 53-47. People who win by margins like this just don't have the incentive to bring home the bacon for their districts. "Taken for granted" doesn't do justice to the way some of these folks have failed their constituents.
Don't even get me started on the entrenchment related failings of the State Assembly and Senate
It works both ways. You'll see the same things working in Republican states as well -- places like Montana or Arizona rarely get disproportionately high pork in election years.
CG
New York is 100% guaranteed to go Democratic in presidential elections. I cannot imagine any campaign mistake that could cause John Kerry to lose New York this November. Nor, for that matter, is there anything good that Bush could do that could propel him to victory here.
Also note that New York's Congressional delegation is mostly Democratic, with its senators among the most liberal in Washington.
Not New York City.
In close elections since Teddy Roosevelt's time, NY has always gone Democratic. Therefore, both parties can safely ignore NY. If the Democrat can't take NY for granted, he has no chance of winning anyway. If the Republican has a chance of winning NY, he has no worries about the election anyway.
It seems to me that in matters of resource allocation, states that are reliably Republican, and even most states that are reliably Democratic, don't do as poorly.
In any event, I was contacted by a reporter for some data on how the Bush Administration is treating NYC. I fed him what I had, though good data lags and it's too soon to tell. The summary of what I told him:
1) Pro-Bush argument: Congress screws NYC (witness the allocation of homeland defense aid), so tax cuts (less money out of NYC) is better than spending (more money out of NYC than comes back), especially if NYC and state raise taxes on the same people (as they have), keeping the money at home.
2) Anti-Bush argument: Bush and the Republicans are on a spending spree in categories that New York gets little of (federal education aid, farm aid, defense, Medicare drug benefit) and are belatedly trying to offset this by cutting categories NYC gets more of (housing, AMTRAK, transit).
3) Acid test -- federal funding for East Side Access and the SAS. Manhattan accounts for 50 percent of the private sector earnings in all of New York State, and it is this economic engine that sends $20 billion more to the federal government than we get back (not including the federal surplus thrown off by NJ and CT commuters to Manhattan). Now it has some needs. Invest in the asset, or cash cow it?
But yeah, the excuses from the party of our leaders is nothing short of "huh????!"
From 1980 to 1992 we had a Republican President and a Democratic Congress. New York got screwed.
From 1992 to 1994 we had a Democratic President and an Democratic Congress. New York got screwed.
From 1994 to 2000 we had a Democratic President and a Republican Congress. New York got screwed.
And from 2000 to 2004 we've had a Republican President and a Republican Congress. New York got screwed.
See a pattern here? Don't vote for Democrats and Republicans.
Between 1980 and 1986, Congress was split, the Senate was Republican and the House was Democratic. Also 2001-2002, but the other way around.
I'm not a member, nor do I support everything that's said. Interesting slant though.
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
Not only that, many people who work in Manhattan live in Connecticut. Imagine if they had to cross through U.S. Customs every time they went to work or to visit NY? They would certainly be screwed under an independent New England unless Fairfield and New Haven Counties were to be split off from the rest of CT. And that would screw the rest of the CT, because SW CT has been where most of the state's growth has been occuring. CT would lose a lot from New England splitting off from the rest of the US.
Your pal,
Fred
Do you think Canada or Australia will be accepting immigrants in 2008? I really would like to know, for my own sake, just in case.
BARFFFffffff
http://www.utu.org/worksite/detail_news.cfm?ArticleID=13022
Vote republican ... see how well it works? :(
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
Of course it does. It used to be a swamp.
They drained it and built a city there.
Elias
My condolences. Where can we send flowers?
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
I don't think there was one.
Version one is the 106 mile system including the under construction New York Avenue station and the Blue line G route extension. (59.6 KB GIF)
Version two has the same as above plus the Tyson, Dulles Loudoun county Silver line M Route as shown in Draft Environmental Impact Statement. (70.6 KB GIF)
The print version will be CAD version on a modified D size single sheet plot 24" X 72" (60.96cm X 182.88cm). For those of you that have the CAD version an updated CAD version will be available when the print version is completed.
John
Maybe it was only a Dunkin' Donut *cup*
Perhaps she was really drinking transformer oil.
Maybe sh is the new Mark-1 Mod-0 Droid that the TA will use to replace T/Os...
Did you see if she had a data input port on the side of her head?
Spock.
I am certain that no matter how things bet betweeen labor and management, most of labor will agree about a safe and sober workforce.
Elias
They are all dumb and funny.
Go back to old service patterns. Have Broadway serve the Canarsie line from Broadway Junction. With modifications Have L trains Go from 8th ave - Jamaica Center Via new fly over tracks.
Years ago there used to be short turns there.
Didn't the L once run expresses between Myrtle and Bedford Avenues ?
wayne
But, did the L ever run express between Myrtle and Bedford Avenues, and, if so, what was its BMT route number ?
The Canarsie Line express was something my dad remembered, probably from the 1940's.
wayne
The 8th Ave terminal isn't at full capacity right now. It can certainly handle 20 tph and possibly even 24.
I'm sure they are planning to increase it to 18 tph, when CBTC is installed. This increase will then be used as a justification for the entire CBTC project.
Flatbush Ave gets 12 2s and 6 5s.
Besides, no other stub terminal (except 42nd on the 7th, which of course has tail tracks) needs to handle more than 15 tph, so the fact that they don't is not proof that they can't.
I think you mean 12 5's and 8 2's. I'm sure that there are more #5's to/from Flatbush than #2's during rush hours.
That's one extreme example. The only other might be Van Cortland Park. So perhaps 8th Ave. could handle 18 TPH.
How so? 12 #3's and 8 #2's = 20 express TPH. Perhaps we need to consult the actual schedules.
10-12 5s
12 2s
9 3s
All occupying the same few feet of local track at Rogers Jct.
Congratulations! If your observations are correct you have observed a piece of NYCT track operating at over 30 tph.
10 #5's
8 #2's
12 #3's
My experiences with the #5 on the Nostrand Ave. line are almost exclusively in the AM, where the Rogers St. interlocking logjam isn't an issue.
There are 12 2s per hour in the AM rush. All go to Flatbush.
Not according to the #2's schedule on the MTA's website. Northbound 2's leave every 12 minutes to 6:30 AM, then every 10 to 7 AM, then every 7.5 minutes to 8:08, then "every 6 to 8 minutes" until 10 AM. The #5 also runs at a similiar headway, so the combined service from Flatbush never exceeds 16 TPH.
The logjam is the local tracks (northbound and southbound alike) through Rogers, where all West Side trains and all Nostrand branch trains converge. If the northbound local track indeed carried 12 tph on the 5 in the morning rush, it would only be able to carry a maximum of 18 tph on the 2 and 3 combined.
Between 8 and 9am, there are 8 5's and 9 2's out of Flatbush, and they merge with 8 or 9 3's at Rogers.
"I think you mean 12 5's and 8 2's. I'm sure that there are more #5's to/from Flatbush than #2's during rush hours. "
I meant what I said. There are 12 tph on the 2 at rush hour and they all go to/from Flatbush. There are 12 tph on the 5 at rush hour and as far as I can tell from the schedule half of them go to/from Flatbush.
Arti
THAT wasn't the issue. The issue is to run the same number of trains from 8th Avenue, but to short turn some of them back at Myrtle.
AM Advantage: Southbounds are running almost empty, turn half of them back at Myrtle, maybe even bingo some full trains non-stop from Myrtle to Lorimer and then to Broadway, let a short-turned train follow making the local stops with an empty train.
PM Advantage: Run (LL) local to Myrtle, run (L) Express to Canarsie. Short turn the local back to 8th to pick up another load.
DISADVANTAGE: Going to STUFF-up the lion while fumigating the geese!
Net Gain: ZERO!
Why do you say that? I hung out there for half an hour about 6 months ago in the evening rush, and there were periods of about 90 seconds in every 4 minute cycle where nothing was happening, and a train could have left and another arrived, had they been scheduled to do so.
Yes, that is my understanding.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4652851/
It was
Airline security is like fare control -- once you're within the gated area, you're good to go.
Nice metaphor. Just like fare control, there are places that aren't behind the same security barrier as another. Like Bleecker Street (and many others).
Besides, you would kill just as many people via bomb attacks on the crowds waiting at the security checkpoints as you would in the trains themselves. It's called the wack-a-mole effect. Such measures will not save a single life. The terrorists would just move to crowded night clubs, bars, churches, malls, etc. If you want to secure everything you should just assign a security screener to every member of the population like the frikin buddy system.
Ah, the buddy system. Foolproof.
I only detailed Additions to the subway. I didnt give any Specific Routings or new designations to new lines, You can figure it out. What do you think. (Too lazy to put too much detail into it)
I only detailed Additions to the subway. I didnt give any Specific Routings or new designations to new lines, You can figure it out. What do you think. (Too lazy to put too much detail into it)
This is more than a fantasy map. It's a fantasy world. You just screw whomever you see fit.
And there are implications outside the Rockaways. Rock Park passengers unwilling to put up with the new three-seat ride will opt for the Q35 to the 2/5 in greater numbers -- and isn't the 2/5 crowded enough already?
But regardless of how many times the average passenger transfers, your proposal increases that count by one for nearly all Rockaway (and Broad Channel and Howard Beach) passengers. Passengers who made one transfer now have to make two. Passengers who made two transfers now have to make three.
I notice that your proposal doesn't increase your transfer count.
The following stats are taken from David Fairthorne's List, posted some time ago:
Annual Fare Registrations for Far Rockaway Line stations:
Beach 67 st: 462,078
Beach 60 st: 599,751
Beach 44 st: 116,154
Beach 36 st: 186,328
Beach 25 st: 504,305
Far Rockaway Mott Ave: 1,315,459
Thats 3,184,075 annual fare registrations. These people have direct service to manhattan presently, and they have it for a reason. You don't think that NYCT would just send all A trains to Lefferts if they could?
Then, we have to note that Rockaway Park Customers use this service too:
Beach 90: 315,225
Beach 98: 245,995
Beach 105: 82,571
Beach 116: 339,050
All totalled, that's: 4,166,916
Here's the #'s for The Liberty branch:
104th: 562,537
111th: 770,071
Lefferts Blvd: 2,204,209
3,536,817 is the total. I haven't even counted stations not on the Rockaways, and that branch still outweighs Liberty.
The Rockaways are obviously deserving of Full-time Manhattan service.
(As a reminder, the Howard Beach buses stop inside AirTrain fare control. I will find the time to be there. Will you?)
Using the fantasy map provided make the following changes:
1. Cut "G" service back to JFK-Howard Beach.
2. Retain the current "A" train to Far Rockaway.
3. Run the "R" train via his connector line from Queens Blvd to the A/C connection at Rockaway Blvd and on to Rockaway Park. Make the "R" train express throughout Queens, scaling a different Queens Blvd. line train back to local. OR institute a new or revised service beginning at the terminal of the 2nd Ave line, via the 63rd Street tunnel, via Queens Blvd and the fantasy connector to Rockaway Park. (In this case the "G" line would be cut back to its present Court House Square location or Queens Plaza to make room for the new 2nd Ave-Queens Blvd-Rockaway Park line.)
The net effect for the Rockaways is that single ride service to Manhattan is retained from Far Rockaway via 8th Ave and instituted from Rockaway Park via Broadway or 2nd Ave.
I haven't deeply considered traffic or commuting patterns, TPH density on the Queens Blvd line, and so on. It is just an idea to resolve the Rockaways issue by providing single ride from both Rockaway termini.
On a different note. One idea I did like was to continue the top of the 2nd Avenue line crosstown to the 8th Ave line under 125th Street. I have proposed this myself on Subtalk in the past. It would provide convenient transfers for East Side service for those using north-south lines west of Lexington Ave. and north of 125th St (upper Manhattan and the Bronx).
I also like the idea of a line connecting the Bronx with Flushing, Jamaica, and SE Queens. Continuing with the idea of providing convenient transfers between regions, I would, however, continue the line west in the Bronx to cross all north-south lines as far west as the 1/9 line (rather than having it meander back NE to Pelham Park. Your extension from 205th Street to Pelham Park would seem to be a good alternate for the NE). Again this would give all subway users in the Bronx convenient transfer directly to the Queens service without the necessity of entering Manhattan.
When? My unlimited expired so I won't actually ride the subway, but I can do the Airtrain and shuttle bus.
Not to mention that 2/5 service would have to be increased, and we already know that it can't turn so many trains to begin with. Then you have the Q35, which is spotty at times and would add time to the commute anyway so it all adds up to disaster and frustration.
Or I'll cheap out and post strip maps.
Any interest in re-activating Woodhaven Junction, between your new Rockaway Line, and the Brooklyn LIRR that runs under Atlantic Avenue ? Or in re-opening the Woodhaven station on Brooklyn LIRR ?
Looks like you've got a spanking new Main St. Lefferts line connecting with IND Fulton, BMT Jamaica, Queens Blvd-Hillside Ave. IND and IRT Flushing lines, and tunnelling under the East River to the Bronx.
Interesting backward "C" curling into JFK Airport from Liberty Ave and Lefferts Blvd.
What's that taking off southeast from Parsons / Archer / Jamaica Center ?
Why not extend Brooklyn elevated IRt east from New Lots to your new Rockaway Line ?
May have groundwater problems continuing IRT south underground from Flatbush and Nostrand.
Can't comment on your new Main St. line's connections in the Bronx.
I think it's more realistic than that Staten Island fantasy map, and one of the most original pieces of graphics I've seen on SubTalk in awhile.
subway lines generally have more stops than a railroad
May have groundwater problems continuing IRT south underground from Flatbush and Nostrand.
Haven't most of the 'plans'/fantasies involving extending the IRT been in the form of an elevated structure?
Can't comment on your new Main St. line's connections in the Bronx.
I will- why not just have the 'X' go straight under Bronx Park and join the Concourse at BPB? Perhaps even terminate there? could have a nice station right next to the Botanic Garden there..
Some of these extended lines are awful long for operational purposes-you would almost have to change crews midway on some of them! Not to mention the extra running stock needed to maintain peak service..
"In actuality that line would go straight down to the airport parallel to the Van Wyck Expressway along Sutphin Blvd and 150th St."
Connecting to and serving the North Passenger Terminal, Federal Building, and Customs ? Bus service there currently ?
Any connections to LIRR Western Montauk (LIC) Branch at Jamaica Avenue and Lefferts Blvd. ?
It's not impossible, as some would have you believe.
Regardless of how easy a transfer it would be, subway platforms can't hold 2 to 3 trains at the same time. That's how people get hurt.
Not only that.
An idea for you:
First: Think - "what do i want to know"
Second: Think - "have i forgot something"
Third: Think - "do other people understand, what i want"
Finally: post
You say:
17 bus lines
Headaway between 15 and 30 minutes
The stop can handle 2 or 3 busses
And that are exact informations to give you an answer?????
1) How many busses can exact handle the stop? 2 or 3?
2) What is the exact headaway of each bus line?
3) From where to where run the lines?
4) Which way are the passengers transfering between the lines?
(avoid overcrowding of the stop / short waiting time for the connecting
bus)
Now buses 22/24/35x/82 and 87 layover there but alittle bit up so other buses can come in. Then they just move up.
Since this is SubTalk not BusTalk, you're at the wrong address.
Post this there and you may be get answers.
I saw a T/O post to Subtalk -- from their house, not while on duty.
AEM7
People freakin roll blunts in physics, but no one goes " (teacher) Look at (him/her) WHAT IS (he/she) doing!!"
Lighten up peeps.
1. The lives of the Conductor and the passengers are in the hands of the Train Operator.
2. Millions of dollars in property (train and right-of-way) are in the hands of the Train Operator.
3. Possession of marijuana is against the law.
4. A Train Operator found in possession of marijuana could be fired, should he or she have a history of such incidents (as I stated in the original thread, NYCT has an Employee Assistance Program that offers a chance to correct an abuse problem -- but nobody gets an infinite number of chances).
5. Many of us here are NYCT employees or employees of other transit agencies, and any allegation that a transit system employee is in possession of an illegal substance makes us all look bad.
In short, if the initial post was made in all seriousness, than it's a matter that needs to be addressed by the Train Operator's supervisors. If it was made in jest, than it should not have been made at all and I hope nobody here will make a fake accusation like this ever again.
David
MBTA TRAIN JAMS, DRAGS WOMAN, 19
A 19-year-old woman was dragged 250 feet hanging out of an MBTA Green Line train after the door of the subway car jammed on her leg, according to published reports.
Kate Joyce, a Boston University student, was hospitalized for four days with neck, leg and arm injuries after the incident last week.
Joyce allegedly fell asleep on a Green Line train and woke up to find the car empty at the Riverside Station. She was unable to contact the conductor and pulled the emergency lever for the train to come to a stop. Before she could fully exit the train, the door shut on her leg, causing her to be dragged. Joyce managed to push herself from the train door aand get free.
An MBTA spokesman told WHDH that already one employee is facing disciplinary action.
Bill
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
The branch that runs under 125th Would turn onto St. Nicholas Ave, and Run up to Washington Heights.
I'd make the queens service run to brooklyn.
My service pattern looked like this:
(T)- 168th Washington Heights or Dyckman St to Whitehall/Hanover Square. All times. Nights only to 125th/Lex.
(B)- 179th Hillside to Brighton Beach. Via 63rd/2nd av subway/Manhattan Bridge. Express on Hillside, And Brighton. Weekdays only.
(Q)-125th lex (or to Bronx) to Coney Island, via upper 2nd av, 63rd, Broadway exp, Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Local.
(K)-Parsons/Archer to Bedford Park Boulevard, Via Broadway Bklyn, Williamsburg bridge, Chrystie St connection, 6th av express, CPW local. Middays to 145th. Peak direction express from Bdwy Junction to Marcy. Weekdays only.
(J)- Skip stop service eliminated.
(E) trains reduced to 12 tph (F) trains reduced to
10 tph. (V) trains reduced to 8 tph.
U: LaGuardia A'prt Terminal B - Gateway Center Mall
rush hours extended to Terminal D
Astoria Blvd/Steinway St Lcl, 63 St, 2 Av Exp, Manhattan Bridge, Flatbush Av Lcl, Av U/Seaview Av Lcl
Nights Atlantic Av/Pacific St - Gateway Center
X: 149 St/3 Av - Coney Island
rush hours, peak direction super-express service to/from Co-Op City; skips 97 St, 57 St, and Kings Highway
2 Av Exp, Manhattan Bridge, skips DeKalb Av, 4 Av Exp, Sea Beach Exp
Weekdays only
Y: ??? NJ - Chambers/Centre St
??? ???, Washington Hts Lcl, 125 St, 2 Av Lcl
Nights to Grand/Chrystie St only
I think you've got too much service on Broadway. I also don't think that there should be any NYCT trains to Jersey. Finally, your 7/11 southward extension should not swing east only to come back west.
Otherwise, I like it.
I used Paint Shop Pro 8. When I started it I immediately realized the map was too small, so the first thing I did was Image->Resize and I enlarged it by 200%.
Also the base map is somewhat distorted; the 7/11 doesn't swing that far east.
Where they run in the CBD.
Thus, If I say Broadway, I mean The N/R line.
If I were referring to another Broadway, I'd specialize it (B'way Brooklyn, Broadway IRT, etc.)
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
-Of course, we know a Jersey line is next to impossible but nice creativity 8-).
-(1)/(9) While I like the thought of an peak direction express using the <9>, it has too much service. And at 242 St, the terminal would have to be redesigned in order to make the 17/27 routing possible.
-(8) I notice that you have a terminal at Botanic Garden. I think you could have trains still serve the Botanic Garden then make a turn back to Bedford Park Blvd.
-(11) Is that via 9 Av or 10 Av? Good idea. Also no need to have it terminate part time at 207 St if yo could build a transfer to the 1 at Dyckman St.
-<18>I think that 241 St doesn't need all of those trains. Since the 18 is the rush hour service, bring that to Dyre Av or via the 17/27 and create some new options for riders in the Bronx and Manhattan.
-(K) Seeing that you utilize the Chrystie connector, I see that you haven't really gotten to Brooklyn yet but where would the K go?
-(U)(X)(Y) Making the X stand for express eh ;-). I could imagine how much relief the Lexington Av line and the M15 will experience with this idea. Utilizing Chamebrs St as an ultramodal transportation hub is an excellent idea. I also notice that yo have the X along the Concourse line, how about just running it via Webster Av having high speed service in the Bronx then letting it stop at Bedford Park Blvd THEN join the B train to what I assume will be Co-op City.
One more thing, if you're bold enough have a service from the Nassau line that could utilize the Manhattan Bridge by reconnecting the Nassau loop :-).
I re-designed the interlocking between 238th and 242nd and 242nd has a 2-track upper level.
-(8) I notice that you have a terminal at Botanic Garden. I think you could have trains still serve the Botanic Garden then make a turn back to Bedford Park Blvd.
Fordham University students will love having the subway stopping right in front of their dorm doors. :) It would have to go right through the building...
-(11) Is that via 9 Av or 10 Av? Good idea. Also no need to have it terminate part time at 207 St if yo could build a transfer to the 1 at Dyckman St.
It's via 10 (Amsterdam) Av north of 42nd, and 11 Av/Hudson St south of 42 St. Also looking at a street map it appears that the Broadway Line and 10th Ave are closer than I thought, maybe a transfer at Dyckman would work.
-(K) Seeing that you utilize the Chrystie connector, I see that you haven't really gotten to Brooklyn yet but where would the K go?
Rockaway Park (not way). I know, it sounds kinda odd, but you'll see when I finish it.
One more thing, if you're bold enough have a service from the Nassau line that could utilize the Manhattan Bridge by reconnecting the Nassau loop :-).
Wouldn't fit...I already have six and a half(!) services on the Manhattan Bridge, I don't think it could handle any more. As it is I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how to divide the 56 TPH between the B, D, Q, T, U, and X lines. (56 TPH is the theoretical capacity of the Manhattan Bridge, if they were able to squeeze 28 out of one side. Gold Interlocking has 2 additional tracks, which bypass DeKalb deep under Flatbush Ave, to accomodate the additional service.)
B - 9
D - 9
Q - 9
T - 9
U - 8
X - 12 [(X) - 6, <X> - 6]
I see you love HTML formatting don't you? :)
I was wondering how that would of been able to been pulled off.
Wouldn't fit...I already have six and a half(!) services on the Manhattan Bridge, I don't think it could handle any more. As it is I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how to divide the 56 TPH between the B, D, Q, T, U, and X lines. (56 TPH is the theoretical capacity of the Manhattan Bridge, if they were able to squeeze 28 out of one side. Gold Interlocking has 2 additional tracks, which bypass DeKalb deep under Flatbush Ave, to accomodate the additional service.)
I see. Wow, 56tph on the Manny-B now that's putting it to the max. Why not just have the 2 Av services as a new tunnel so it could be at high speed heading into Brooklyn.
I see you love HTML formatting don't you? :)
I most certainly do :-)
There's a Fleet River? Where?
History and map here.
Painting here
D 205St-Hanover Sq
W VCP-CI (West End)
Q 125St-CI (Brighton local)
K FH-Hanover Sq 24/7
W or Q via Grand St other via Bway express
other lines are not changed
(northern terminals of W & Q can be swapped as alternative)
D on CPW/6 Av @ Grand on 2 Av
K from the 63 St tunnel to 2 Av
W/Q on of these lines would run through the 63 St tunnel to the Bway line
the other on 2 Av, changes @ Grand on the Man bridge.
http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/sas_alignment.htm
Arti
Arti
The MTA website says that transfers are "under evaluation." Nevertheless, it does show a transfer to the 4 & 5 at 42nd St. If this transfer is built, it would require a rather long underground walkway.
As the 2, 3, A, and C are west side lines, I can't imagine where they'd interconnect with the SAS. Passengers bound for east side destinations coming in from Brooklyn can transfer to the 4 or 5 at Fulton St. Passengers coming from the UES or Harlem can transfer from the SAS to the E, V, or 6 at 57th (implying another long underground walkway to 53rd & Lex).
The SAS plans already include a connection to Broadway, although not specifically the R. There's no connection to the M, although that strikes me as a rather unnecessary transfer.
Or are there any actual plans to extend the line into B'klyn for additional service?
The proposed terminus at Hanover Square does not preclude an eventual extension into Brooklyn. No such plans are currently on the drawing board.
I LOVE YOU MAN!
So the $160 million rebuild of the Atlantic Av LIRR station doesn't count. The $400 million rebuild of Coney Island doesn't count either. The rehabilitation of the Williamsburg Bridge doesn't count, and neither does the new Archer Av tunnel (which, although in Queens, is part of a subway line serving Brooklyn.
And the $75 million rebuild of the Franklin Av Shuttle doesn't count. And forget about the Manhattan Bridge reopening. That doesn't help Brooklyn at all. Maybe they should tear down the Manny B; it's not even wanted by Brooklynites.
Aside from all that, who else is out to get you? :0)
Vengence said:
"Over the years,not one mile of new rail line has been built in Brooklyn,even though there has been promises"
Then, you write a reply that there has been tons of rennovation, and even a new line in queens, but never once do you mention new track in brooklyn.
Are you confused by what he said? Perhaps someone should explain what he meant:
In the borough of brooklyn, NO NEW ROUTES HAVE BEEN BUILT. Brooklyn has not seen any service expanded into new areas that did not previously have it.
So the $160 million rebuild of the Atlantic Av LIRR station doesn't count.
This really doesn't help brooklynites as much as it helps Long Islanders. It's also NOT NEW TRACK. And the largest transfer complex in brooklyn SHOULD have been rebuilt quite some time ago.
The $400 million rebuild of Coney Island doesn't count either.
Station rehabs do not count as expanded service. Their nice, but they certainly do not add service. It's also NOT NEW TRACK.
The rehabilitation of the Williamsburg Bridge doesn't count,.... And forget about the Manhattan Bridge reopening.
And if these rehabs had not occurred, then we would have no service over these bridges. It's also NOT NEW TRACK.
and neither does the new Archer Av tunnel (which, although in Queens, is part of a subway line serving Brooklyn.
This is one of the most thoughtless assertions you have ever made. Using you're logic, I could reasonably assert that nearly any extension of any line would be a benefit IN Brooklyn because that line runs in brooklyn at some point. I could say that 63rd is a benefit to brooklyn. I could say that the airtrain is a benefit to Brooklyn.
That said, It's also NOT NEW TRACK.
And the $75 million rebuild of the Franklin Av Shuttle doesn't count.
Let's not forget that they wanted to tear the whole thing down at first. It's also NOT NEW TRACK.
Let's not forget that they wanted to tear the whole thing down at first. It's also NOT NEW TRACK.
And, as a result of the rebuild, the line is now single-track for part of the way (it was formerly 2-track for its entire length), and a station was eliminated (Dean St). Now, those may in fact have been prudent decisions, but you can't count the Franklin Av reconstruction--attractive as it is--as new service for Brooklyn.
No apologies necessary. I support your decision to improve the state of your health. Within one year, if you can hang in there, you can get rid of 50% of your risk of cancer, heart disease and lung disease. Keep it up over 10-15 years? Your risk will be almost as if you never smoked.
Finding other things to do with your hands and your mouth can be helpful. Play a trumpet or a saxophone, take up golf or tennis or touch football, chew gum, whatever it takes. Yur doctor might have some great ideas.
Best wishes. You're achieving something almost as hard as getting the Second Av Subway built. But YOU CAN SUCCEED. YEEHAH!
So what? That had no effect on the level of service.
"and a station was eliminated (Dean Street).
A station whicjh truly counts as one nobody used (and the next stop is less than a quarter-mile away). Its elimination helped improve service to the other stations. The addition of a transfer point at the Botanical Garden was far more important than maintaining Dean Street.
The SAS is something most New Yorkers are in favor of. So there's a decent chance it will get done. The MTA Chairman is helping refill reelcetion campaign coffers in places like Alabama so that people like Richard shelby vote for the money that MTA needs to start construction.
"I'll be damn if I'm gonna be like some kiss butt burritocrate that looks the other way when crap hit the fan "
Which crap hits which fan? I don't see what problem you're referring to. The last time I checked, Queens had the most increase in population and not enough added subway service. Brooklyn has plenty of subway service, and mainly needs rehabs and getting lines and stations reopened, like Coney Island, Manhattan Bridge etc.
"So sling your hash somewhere else,cause I ain't eattin'. It's time for you to smell what the MTA's cookin"
You're the only one slinging mud here. If you spent more time looking for constructive ways to support new subway starts and other improvement projects, you might actually make a difference. But your attitude prevents you from making any kind of contribution at all.
So instead of spinning conspiracy theories and paranoia on Subtalk, why not do something more constructive? Until you do, it's partly your own fault if things you want for your boroiugh don't get done.
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Vengeance, and apparently you, too, look at this very narrowly, missing the forest for the trees.
"Then, you write a reply that there has been tons of rennovation, and even a new line in queens, but never once do you mention new track in brooklyn."
My point is that the investment in renovation and renewal in Brooklyn is so significant and important that complaining about the lack of new routes in Brooklyn is laughable. Yes, no new routes have been built in Brooklyn. Vengeance seems to think that meant Brooklyn got the shaft. I'm pointing out that that's a ridiculous conclusion.
"This really doesn't help brooklynites as much as it helps Long Islanders."
It helps both plenty. You overlook rtthe fact that access to the subway has been improved in that station. Your objection there counts as whining.
"Station rehabs do not count as expanded service."
Actually, yes they do, in terms of access. A lot of people (elderly, handicapped, people with kids in strollers) had trouble reaching Coney Island on the subway. Now they are getting an ADA-compliant station which will accommodate everyone. Again, you've got tunnel vision on this. Look at the bigger picture.
And try not to be so juvenile when you post (sigh...)
And try not be so alive when you post (sigh...)
Perhaps you need an explanation.
Vengence (Not Vengeance) said that no new track was built. Then you replied with all these assertions that had NOTHING to do with new track. This is what made your posts laughable.
Vengeance, and apparently you, too, look at this very narrowly, missing the forest for the trees.
No. We simply agree on something that you cannot see, since you are so enamored with the MTA.
My point is that the investment in renovation and renewal in Brooklyn is so significant and important that complaining about the lack of new routes in Brooklyn is laughable
No, it is not. You evidently do not know just how big an area of Brooklyn lacks subway service. Areas that are in need of it. I am not neglecting to look at the positive things being done in Brooklyn. But these things are being done in ALL boroughs. So when they get done, it's not like it's some kind of boon to brooklynites.
It helps both plenty. You overlook rtthe fact that access to the subway has been improved in that station. Your objection there counts as whining.
Your entire post counts as whining.
You specifically mentioned the LIRR terminal rehab. This might help me a little, but I think it's a bigger benefit to Long Islanders. If you want to continue to disagree with my assessment, then I guess you must know more than I do about riding the system I use everyday to actually get around.
"Station rehabs do not count as expanded service."
Actually, yes they do, in terms of access. A lot of people (elderly, handicapped, people with kids in strollers) had trouble reaching Coney Island on the subway. Now they are getting an ADA-compliant station which will accommodate everyone. Again, you've got tunnel vision on this. Look at the bigger picture.
Station rehabs do not count as expanded service. The MTA is supposed to provide vans for the elderly/handicapped. Srollers are not supposed to be in use on the subway.
And try not to be so juvenile when you post (sigh...)
Try not to be so closed minded when you post (achoo...)
Which are very small compared to the huge swaths of Queens which need subway service and don't have it. If money were no object you'd build new lines in both boroughs. But that's not a huge priiority in Brooklyn right now.
"The MTA is supposed to provide vans for the elderly/handicapped. Srollers are not supposed to be in use on the subway."
I can try to educate you on the issues of ADA, but if you don't want to learn, that's your problem. The disabled and elderly are entitled to use the subways they paid for, since the federal 1974 mass transit law was passed (ADA superceded it, but both had the same effect. Washington Metrorail is accessible in large part because of the 1974 law, not the 1990 law). I can only be grateful that MTA, for all its problems (and there are many) is generally managed by people with mature judgment. You could learn a lot from them if you stopped whining long enough to actually listen. There are a few people on this board, you among them, who fantasize about somehow knowing how to manage a transit agency. If you really did, of course, you'd be doing it. Subtalk is a cool board, but recognize its limitations.
But you're not. So the next best thing is to know how to separate "railbuff" from reality, and then learn how to get the changes you want considered. MTA is certainly driven by politics: politicians determine its major priorities. You elect those politicians. Want to change something? Hint: Ranting about how incompetent or evil MTA is is not going to get you anywhere. But helping your politicians by getting involved, joining coalitions and knowing when to apply the honey as well as the bee stings is key. Maybe some politicians who don't fight hard enough for transit need to be replaced by others. Do you want to run for office? Do you know how to do any of the above?
I've been involved in transit advocacy for close to 15 years. Over the past four years I've made a lot of suggestions to MTA and seen close to half a dozen to date be accepted and implemented. You don't see me whining because I've seen MTA deliver a lot of things I've wanted.
My telling you Brooklyn does not deserve high priority for a lot of new subway service isn't closed-minded. It's realistic. You're free to disagree, of course.
So you have a choice. You can take a juvenile approach to this, and on Subtalk, that's fine. It also works great on your HO train in your living room. But if you want to do anything more than whine and bellyache meaninglessly, you need to take a different approach. Go talk to the Brooklyn Borough President's office and your US Representative's staff about transit. Let them educate you a little.
Good luck
To be fair, I only defended this thread. Personally, I don't think that Brooklyn was shafted anymore than any other borough which has not seen needed subway expansion.
The whole point was that vengence said that No new routes had been built, and then you pointed out that he was in fact wrong, that no new routes had been built, but we had these other cool things.
I can try to educate you on the issues of ADA, but if you don't want to learn, that's your problem. The disabled and elderly are entitled to use the subways they paid for, since the federal 1974 mass transit law was passed (ADA superceded it, but both had the same effect. Washington Metrorail is accessible in large part because of the 1974 law, not the 1990 law).
Perhaps you didn't understand what I said. I said that making an ADA station ADA compliant doesn't increase service for the elderly because they already have door-to-door service. Writing about the particulars of ADA does not address what I said. Nor does it address the fact that most of Brooklyn's stations are presently non-ADA compliant.
We're talking about service expansion. ADA compliance is not service expansion, no matter how many times you claim that it is.
I can only be grateful that MTA, for all its problems (and there are many) is generally managed by people with mature judgment. You could learn a lot from them if you stopped whining long enough to actually listen.
I never said that these people didn't have mature judgement, now did I? You're addressing something that doesn't exist. You might notice this if you didn't spend so much time being arrogant.
There are a few people on this board, you among them, who fantasize about somehow knowing how to manage a transit agency.
I personally know people in a number of divisions in NYCT, RTO included. Do you? Can you walk up to someone and have lunch with them, and ask them about the particulars of their job?
That said, I generally agree with most of the MTA's decisions, and usually take flak for it. Now, I'm having you accuse me of the opposite? I really don't know what more I can say or do here.
Of course, you don't notice this because you spend so much time talking down to everyone that you don't bother to listen to anyone on this board.
I've been involved in transit advocacy for close to 15 years. Over the past four years I've made a lot of suggestions to MTA and seen close to half a dozen to date be accepted and implemented. You don't see me whining because I've seen MTA deliver a lot of things I've wanted.
These things major proposals? I've got a whole list. Some people have gone far beyond writing letters, and STILL haven't seen their proposals even come close to being implemented.
You also do not live in Brooklyn. You can't say "I'm satisfied with present NYCT operations" because you don't use them.
So you have a choice. You can take a juvenile approach to this, and on Subtalk, that's fine. It also works great on your HO train in your living room.
I am getting sick of this crap. Where was I juvenile? Please, enlighten me, o great one. I put thought & reasoning behind my arguments. On the other hand, what you just said was incredibly juvenile. If you want to be a hypocrite, just leave me alone.
But if you want to do anything more than whine and bellyache meaninglessly, you need to take a different approach. Go talk to the Brooklyn Borough President's office and your US Representative's staff about transit.
How many people have done just that regarding the 2nd avenue subway? I see that it was successful, as I used to ride it to my job on the upper east side.
Let them educate you a little.
There is nothing I could learn from them about rail transit.
I don't know why you even post here. Everyone on here is wrong. Maybe you think that your Rudyard Kipling, taking up the 'white man's burden' by educating us poor dumb new york city folks, who know nothing about the system we actually ride.
The whole point was that vengence said that No new routes had been built, and then you pointed out that he was in fact wrong, that no new routes had been built"
Yes, from that specific perspective, you're right. His statement was true. How important that statement is is a separate question. I linked the two together in my post.
"Perhaps you didn't understand what I said. I said that making an ADA station ADA compliant doesn't increase service for the elderly because they already have door-to-door service"
Not relevant. Paratransit is an inadequate band-aid. It is also expensive, sometimes unreliable and not a replacement for access to the subway. It exists only because the subway is accessible. Once the subway becomes more accessible, then the need for paratransit lessens. Some will continue to need it, of course. But it is ultimately an inefficient use of resources which must be subsidized by the rest of us. The fewer people who have to use it, and the more people who can be "mainstreamed" on trains nd buses, the better. You evidently do not understand the either the spirit or the letter of ADA. As I said before, you need a little educating on the subject. Unless you are too arrogant to learn anything.
"Nor does it address the fact that most of Brooklyn's stations are presently non-ADA compliant. "
Actually, you are the one who ignored that. I pointed out that rehabbing and ADA compliance were far more important to Brooklyn than subway expansion right now.
"I never said that these people didn't have mature judgement, now did I?"
Well, actually, by defending a poster who did, you aligned yourself with that position.
"I personally know people in a number of divisions in NYCT, RTO included. Do you? Can you walk up to someone and have lunch with them, and ask them about the particulars of their job?"
Yes, I do. And yes I can. And I also know a number of people in management and have spoken to them and exchanged a lot of correspondence with them, and have learned a lot in the process.
"That said, I generally agree with most of the MTA's decisions, and usually take flak for it."
That's not the issue here. I don't care if you agree or diagree with MTA's decisions. I don't agree with all of them either. And I for one will not give you flak per se for that. You will not see the term apologist" in any of my posts.
Of course, even that term is relative. Someone working for MTA who defends their position publicly on something must sometimes be an "apologist." But of course that is what he/she gets paid to do.
"These things major proposals?"
If you consider a service plan major, then yes. Some are more minor, such as changes and improvements to the agency's website.
"Some people have gone far beyond writing letters, and STILL haven't seen their proposals even come close to being implemented."
Yes, that happens. It takes two to tango. MTA may not be able or want to (rightly or wrongly) and the folks making proposals may not be patient enough to understan that these things take time. Some proposals are great, some are not, some have political backing, and some don't. I believe you can never be wrong for trying.
"You also do not live in Brooklyn. You can't say "I'm satisfied with present NYCT operations" because you don't use them."
False, silly and narrow-minded of you. I lived in NY or was frequently there until 2003, so yes I was a regular user. And everytime I'm in NYC (which I am actually coming next month) I will benefit from the positive changes MTA has made. Not only that, but my friends, family and fellow Subtalkers in NY will get the benefit of those changes.
"How many people have done just that regarding the 2nd avenue subway?"
A lot, which is why MTA has it on the Capital budget. That is also why the FTA has the project on its list of recommended projects. The politics have been difficult, but we've come a lot closer to making it a reality than in any time in the past.
"I see that it was successful, as I used to ride it to my job on the upper east side."
That is where you become juvenile. Your choice: you can make it obvious to your elected officials that they need not bother with you, or you can join the Manhattan Borough's second Av Subway Task Force (or go to the Brooklyn Borough Prez and see where you can lend a hand there). Or you can do any numner of other things.
"There is nothing I could learn from them about rail transit."
Arrogant and juvenile. Of course, you could visit their offices and listen to what they have to say. Then find out if you've learned anything or not.
"I don't know why you even post here. "
I have learned a lot here. And material hasjed over here has served as the basis for proposals that have become reality, or have contributed to proposals from others that became reality.
"Maybe you think that your Rudyard Kipling, taking up the 'white man's burden' by educating us poor dumb new york city folks"
How do you know I am white? And I still am very much a city boy. And I have as many miles piled up riding the subway as you do.
If you want to play the race card or avoid dealing with criticism because you think you are being taled down to that's your problem. I'm not here to please you. But I am willing to engage in meaningful dialogue. Whether we do or not is up to you.
Do you choose to be ignorant, or is it something you can't control? Again, making a station ADA compliant does not amount to a service increase for anybody. All your arguments, as true as they may be, are totally irrelevant. We're talking about service expansion. ADA does not accomplish this.
Additionally, I think that door to door bus service that is equipped with lifts is by far better than having to travel blocks to a subway or bus stop. If you disagree with that, then you need to have one of those head scans done.
Actually, you are the one who ignored that. I pointed out that rehabbing and ADA compliance were far more important to Brooklyn than subway expansion right now.
Evidently, you don't know just how many people don't have adequate subway service in Brooklyn. A subway on Utica avenue would be far more important than borough-wide ADA compliance.
"That said, I generally agree with most of the MTA's decisions, and usually take flak for it."
That's not the issue here. I don't care if you agree or diagree with MTA's decisions.
Forget what you said? You said that I seem to think I know how to run a transit agency, much like many others here. Now, if you meant something different, learn to express yourself better.
If you consider a service plan major, then yes. Some are more minor, such as changes and improvements to the agency's website.
Really? What service plan of yours was implemented? Please, I must know.
"You also do not live in Brooklyn. You can't say "I'm satisfied with present NYCT operations" because you don't use them."
False, silly and narrow-minded of you. I lived in NY or was frequently there until 2003, so yes I was a regular user. And everytime I'm in NYC (which I am actually coming next month) I will benefit from the positive changes MTA has made. Not only that, but my friends, family and fellow Subtalkers in NY will get the benefit of those changes.
Okay. So tell me, did you also have trouble accessing the area near glenwood road and Utica Ave? Or Kings Plaza mall? You also have trouble getting to these areas by subway (or bus for that matter). No, wait, according to you, everything is peachy kean in Brooklyn, and I have no clue what I'm talking about.
"I see that [the second avenue subway] was successful, as I used to ride it to my job on the upper east side."
That is where you become juvenile. Your choice: you can make it obvious to your elected officials that they need not bother with you, or you can join the Manhattan Borough's second Av Subway Task Force
First of all, you didn't address the issue. I said that the second avenue subway had many, many people lobby for it over the years, and it was never built.
"How many people have done just that regarding the 2nd avenue subway?"
A lot, which is why MTA has it on the Capital budget. That is also why the FTA has the project on its list of recommended projects. The politics have been difficult, but we've come a lot closer to making it a reality than in any time in the past.
1. The second avenue subway is closer to reality than any time previously? That's wrong. Construction actually started in the 70's. They actually had it underway.
2. Seeing as there's very little talk of funding for it right now, I don't see how it's soooo secure right now.
"I personally know people in a number of divisions in NYCT, RTO included. Do you? Can you walk up to someone and have lunch with them, and ask them about the particulars of their job?"
Yes, I do. And yes I can. And I also know a number of people in management and have spoken to them and exchanged a lot of correspondence with them, and have learned a lot in the process.
Okay. So you could call someone up and have them come over to your hose for dinner? Answer specifically. You seem to have trouble doing that.
There is nothing I could learn from [politicians] about rail transit."
Arrogant and juvenile. Of course, you could visit their offices and listen to what they have to say. Then find out if you've learned anything or not.
There is nothing I could learn from politicians about rail transit. Anything I do not know, I could ask people who actually do the job. Maybe you have such little knowledge about rail transit that you had to learn what a FEIS was from a politician, but I don't.
I have learned a lot here. And material hasjed over here has served as the basis for proposals that have become reality, or have contributed to proposals from others that became reality.
I don't know what hasjed means.
Proposals here don't dictate what actually happens anywhere. Ridership studies do.
"Maybe you think that your Rudyard Kipling, taking up the 'white man's burden' by educating us poor dumb new york city folks"
How do you know I am white? And I still am very much a city boy. And I have as many miles piled up riding the subway as you do.
If you want to play the race card...
Are you that stupid? I really want an answer.
'The white man's burden' was Rudyard Kipling's belief that Western Civilization and religion had to be taught to all savages who did not live like Europeans, and did not practice Christianity. At the time, all westerners were white (or at least the overwhelming majority was).
Obviously, I do not think that you are trying to preach christianity to me right now. On that same thought, I don't presume you are white. I'm saying that you think that I'm just another dumb savage who needs the light. That's the analogy. Moron.
or avoid dealing with criticism because you think you are being taled down to that's your problem.
I'm dealing with the criticism. You're ignoring many of my points, going off on irrelevant tnagents, and continuously bring up 'getting invoolved', even though that does not count as a counterpoint. On top of that, you're being a jerk. You accuse me of arrogance, but you keep on acting stuck-up.
I'm not here to please you.
You're also not here to lecture me, but that doesn't seem to stop you.
But I am willing to engage in meaningful dialogue.
Let me demonstrate what you have been doing:
Me: There are plenty of areas in Brooklyn that lack subway service that need it. NYCT has done nothing to address this.
You: But they have made cool new station enhancements. Additionally, you should write to your congressman. Not only will your letter result in action, but he can also educate you on how this system would work.
See the problem? Sure, your argument looks nice, but it does not address my point whatsoever.
Some people really dislike you. I can understand why. You're like a subway preacher: No one wants to hear your opinion, but you just keep bellowing away.
Not some, many. A number of people have expressed their displeasure with Ron's attitude (I'm a trailblazer in that area), but very few have praised him (and those that have have since recanted).
You're not going to convince Ron to change his attitude or leave. My responses to him are now exclusively death wishes. He doesn't deserve any higher discourse.
I don't want to. If I could just get him to accept that he is not the god of subway knowledge, I'd be pleased.
My responses to him are now exclusively death wishes.
I don't think he's deserving of that. Constant ridicule, certainly. But not death wishes.
Yes, I do. And yes I can. And I also know a number of people in management and have spoken to them and exchanged a lot of correspondence with them, and have learned a lot in the process.
"Okay. So you could call someone up and have them come over to your hose for dinner? Answer specifically. You seem to have trouble doing that."
Sorry if you think so. And the answer is yes.
I think it's cool that you are friends with T/os, conductors, whatever. Nice people and I'm sure they do a good job. But unless you talk to people "upstairs" too you're not getting the big picture. Talking to a burger flipper does not mean you know all about McDonald's; talking to a bank teller does not tell you all about the bank.
"Additionally, I think that door to door bus service that is equipped with lifts is by far better than having to travel blocks to a subway or bus stop."
OK, but the disabled as a group disagree with you. So do most people who have trouble using the subway. They want to use all transit resources just like you do. And you forget that you have to reserve paratransit 24 hours in advance. How would you like it if you had to reserve every subway trip you took 24 hours in advance?
Telling a disabled person "You have paratransit; you don't need ADA access to the subway." is just like telling a black person "You take the train (or bus) marked Colored Passengers. You don't need to be on the White Only buses, because you have your own." But I guess you wouldn't mind that either, would you? I mind, and so do most other people.
"Evidently, you don't know just how many people don't have adequate subway service in Brooklyn. A subway on Utica avenue would be far more important than borough-wide ADA compliance"
A subway on Utica Av would be very cool, and it would get a lot of ridership. But because there are other boroughs that need subway service much more than Brooklyn, it takes a back seat. So the next best thing you can do is rehab and upgrade Brooklyn stations. When other priorities have been addressed, like the SAS, East Side Access (which is underway) or new service in Queens, then we revisit Brooklyn. If you disagree with that, you have to visit with politicians. You don't like politicians, but having a T/O friend over for dinner is not going to influence MTA to change its priorities.
"I don't know what hasjed means."
Sorry. My typo. I meant "hashed over" meaning the information that's posted and responded to on this board.
"1. The second avenue subway is closer to reality than any time previously? That's wrong. Construction actually started in the 70's. They actually had it underway."
Very true. And MTA has $1 billion reserved in the current capital budget to continue from there. The tunnels built in the 1970s have been maintained and will be used, so they don't have to reinvent everything.
"2. Seeing as there's very little talk of funding for it right now, I don't see how it's soooo secure right now."
There's a lot of talk about funding. You just have to open your daily newspaper and read.
"I'm saying that you think that I'm just another dumb savage who needs the light. That's the analogy. Moron. "
Yu're doing a much better job of playing the savage than I could do calling you one. After you finish your childish name-calling, we can talk meaningfully again.
hypocrite.
Superintendant in RTO, moron.
OK, but the disabled as a group disagree with you.
No. Disabled people simply want something reliable. The problem is that paratransit is unreliable, whereas the subway is.
It's hard for someone who has weak legs to walk 5 blocks to the nearest subway. It's easy to walk out the front door to a paratransit van
They want to use all transit resources just like you do. And you forget that you have to reserve paratransit 24 hours in advance. How would you like it if you had to reserve every subway trip you took 24 hours in advance?
Telling a disabled person "You have paratransit; you don't need ADA access to the subway." is just like telling a black person "You take the train (or bus) marked Colored Passengers. You don't need to be on the White Only buses, because you have your own." But I guess you wouldn't mind that either, would you? I mind, and so do most other people.
Again, you wander away from the topic. ADA compliance is not service expansion. I never said that disabled people did not want to use the subway. But making a station ADA compliant does constitute service expansion, as these people already have a far more comprehensive service. Try to focus Ron. I know it's hard for you to do.
A subway on Utica Av would be very cool, and it would get a lot of ridership. But because there are other boroughs that need subway service much more than Brooklyn, it takes a back seat. So the next best thing you can do is rehab and upgrade Brooklyn stations. When other priorities have been addressed, like the SAS, East Side Access (which is underway) or new service in Queens, then we revisit Brooklyn. If you disagree with that, you have to visit with politicians. You don't like politicians, but having a T/O friend over for dinner is not going to influence MTA to change its priorities.
Aren't you a doctor? Can't you prescribe something for that pesky ADD you suffer from?
The issue here was not do areas of brooklyn deserve service expansion over areas of other boroughs. The question was would a Utica subway serve more people than ADA compliance? Yes it would. Keep ignoring the arguments. You seem to do this well.
There's a lot of talk about funding. You just have to open your daily newspaper and read.
See, that's the thing Ron. I did just that. Back a few weeks ago, the NY Times had a whole section devoted to the subway. In it was an article detailing the history of the 2nd av subway, and how today the West side extension of the #7 has the city pledging funds, but there remains a shroud over funding for the 2nd av subway.
If you want to disagree with the New York Times, be my guest.
Yu're doing a much better job of playing the savage than I could do calling you one. After you finish your childish name-calling, we can talk meaningfully again.
You have not uttered one meaningful word of conversation in this thread, instead choosing to ignore my points, or make irrelevant counterpoints. You've called me a whiner, and immature for stating my opinions, so does that make you childish? Probably not, in your own moronic mind.
No, I'm right on topic. You have no understanding about just how important ADA is, no clue about what the disabled want, and when that information is offered to you, you reject it. OK.
"Superintendant in RTO, moron"
If you say so. Does he/she call everybody a moron in conversation, too? Or maybe this "superintendent" you know isn't a superintendent? Who knows...
Try again....
Again, "I'm right and Jtrainloco is wrong". Your idea of talking to a teenager flipping burgers to learn how McDonalds operates is wrong.
If you say so. Does he/she call everybody a moron in conversation, too? Or maybe this "superintendent" you know isn't a superintendent? Who knows...
I don't call anyone a moron, except to a Subtalker who tells a mature poster to cut out the rainfanning crap and get a reality check. YOU need a reality check.
AEM7
I like a lot of what you post too. You help teach me a lot of good stuff about electric trains, physics, electricity, rail network management.
I would say you and Phillip and Stephen and ?? should get together on an online textbook.
Alright then, Ron, two questions for you (apologies for being off-topic):
1. What do you think of the whole MA drive towards "marriage" for gay people? I mean is a civil union with guarenteed "equality" and protection under the law sufficient, or does it have to be a marriage?
2. So you believe "civics" is a concept that could be taught in a classroom, by some higher authority that supposedly knows better. So who defines that higher authority? Remember the "Freedom Riders"? They got two Greyhound buses burnt out, because their asserting their rights was incompatible with the views of a particular community (Montgomery, AL as a matter of fact). What about other rights? Do you think that Texans can assert their right to bear arms in New York City too? Do you think people can carry knives for religious reasons? Do you think that women should be allowed to wear headscarf in a driver's licence photo, and in a mug shot if arrested? Who defines this higher authority?
AEM7
If you say so. Too bad you evidently don't have the background to understand why you miss the point over and over again.
...**Groan** Ron, it's like you have no understanding of how an exchange of ideas work.
The whole issue is: "Is ADA a service expansion? Would a new subway be more important than ADA compliance at existing stations?" We were discussing service expansion. ADA compliance adds new service for a limited number of people, and they already have a service that is more convenient for them. For you to say I know nothing about what disabled people want, is not only irrelevant to the discussion, it's also wrong.
Ron, you ignore everything. You ignored the original poster's idea, that brooklyn was shafted because they didn't get any new rail service. This was his personal opinion. To call him a whiner because of that is immature on your part.
And maybe he isn't wrong. What projects are on the plate? ESA: not benefitting brooklyn. West Side extension: not benefitting brooklyn. LIRR to lower manhattan: DEFINITELY not benefitting brooklyn. How about that, Ron?
If you say so. Does he/she call everybody a moron in conversation, too?
Why would he? Are he and I the same person?
I admit, I was wrong to call you a moron. You're more like Herpes: Those occasional sores might go away (your posts), but the root of the problem is always there (you).
Try again....
What an excellent way to dismiss all of my arguments.
OK, but the disabled as a group disagree with you. So do most people who have trouble using the subway. They want to use all transit resources just like you do. And you forget that you have to reserve paratransit 24 hours in advance. How would you like it if you had to reserve every subway trip you took 24 hours in advance?
There were newspaper articles that I read which said that Paratransit service is unreliable and inconsistent. It needs reorganization IMO.
Telling a disabled person "You have paratransit; you don't need ADA access to the subway." is just like telling a black person "You take the train (or bus) marked Colored Passengers. You don't need to be on the White Only buses, because you have your own." But I guess you wouldn't mind that either, would you? I mind, and so do most other people.
He's saying that a person would still have to walk/travel by bus to get to a ADA compliant subway station but also acknowledged that the Paratransit is unreliable.
"Separate but equal" rarely results in equal. This is why, ultimately, the disabled need to be offered full access to transit facilities the same way able-bodied people are.
One prime example of where your priorities on subway expansion are, inside the center of a closed facility off the West Shore Expressway in Staten Island with two entrances, one at Victory Blvd, the other at West Service Road near Muldoon Ave. Utica Ave has the second busiest bus route in Brooklyn (second to the B41 on Flatbush Ave), and an IRT expansion down Utica Ave from Eastern Parkway to Kings Plaza would be most welcome to southeastern Brooklyn customers having limited one-seat access to the subway. There is a large chunk of Brooklyn (Livonia Ave to the North, Rockaway Parkway to the East, East 16th St to the West and the waterfront to the south), that is in need of subway service. However the SAS is more important than Brooklyn expansion at this time because of the Lex overcrowding. But your posts are always off a tangent and you are the biggest hypocrite on this board with you motto: "I'm right and everyone else is wrong.".
Too bad the rest of your post has to be juvenile. I have consistently tried to show that one can discuss details nonsensically, as you and JTrain occasionally do. You miss the forest for the trees (but not in your last post and not with your really good suggestion about the Rockaways.
If anything, I've been consistently honest, and have been waiting for a small group of you to grow up. If you want me to treat you as an adult, you have to act like one first.
You have been as honest as the validity of DefJef's posts. You attack other posters (including me) for going off tangents, discussing issues not related to the person who is is discussing and for a someone to tell others to cut out the railfanning crap, you sure don't know whether Far Rockaway LIRR station is in Queens or in Nassau.
That was harsh ;-).
Too bad you haven't been consistently dead.
For someone who rails on and on about ADA access, it seems that there's something about you that would benefit from ADA access. Normally, I don't delight in the suffering of others, but when it's your suffering, it makes me happy. I hope your disability gives you years of misery, followed by untimely death.
I guess this picture succinctly describes your attitude toward Ron in Bayside.
What better to illustrate American Pig's attitude toward Ron in Bayside?
Ha ha ha ha, as I've said before Sgt Newkirk, 'pot', 'kettle', 'black'!
Typical Rail buff nonsense. As American Pig pointed out, the new E line was a true expansion of subway service from Queens Blvd. The J service was cut back to Parsons, which is unfortunate, but the cutback was 7-8 blocks.
Te Franklin shuttle rebuild represents an expansion of service due to the new interchange with the IRT (they opened a passage used previously only by police). as to the one-track system, this had no effect on service levels.
Yur post represents meaningless whining. Time for a reality check.
I'll accept that the E re-routing cancels out the J's cutback - because Queens Blvd now has access to Jamaica LIRR station - but that still does not amount to a net expansion of the transit network. Queens Boulevard service was not expanded at all, and Hillside Avenue service was actually reduced (even when the R was extended, it ran nowhere near as often as the E it had replaced, and now there is only the F).
So maybe it wasn't a net cutback, but I still don't see it as an expansion. Personally I am of the opinion that the wrong route (E) was put on Archer, resulting in unbalanced service, but that really doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.
True, but in cutting back the other track the MTA reduced maintenance and repair expenses without affecting service. The Franklin Av Shuttle does not need a long platform. What it has now works fine.
"I'll accept that the E re-routing cancels out the J's cutback - because Queens Blvd now has access to Jamaica LIRR station"
I'm sorry the J wasn't extended at least to Merrick Blvd. That intersection could use subway service.
"The other benefit was that J riders can now travel to destinations along Queens Blvd (and some do).
" - but that still does not amount to a net expansion of the transit network"
You're right. I wish it were otherwise. But the new service does help J riders.
"Queens Boulevard service was not expanded at all,"
True for number of trains, false for route extension."
Personally I am of the opinion that the wrong route (E) was put on Archer, resulting in unbalanced service."
I can see the merit in your argument there.
I'd be interested if you explained why you felt this way.
Exactly Ron, it doesn't count.
And the $75 million rebuild of the Franklin Av Shuttle doesn't count. And forget about the Manhattan Bridge reopening. That doesn't help Brooklyn at all. Maybe they should tear down the Manny B; it's not even wanted by Brooklynites.
Exactly Ron, it doesn't count. All of the above is considered to be REBUILT track using new rails, there's a big difference between that and building NEW tracks, like say if they were to build a Utica Av subway. Besides y'all should realize that if anything, over the years, track has been REMOVED so therefore we have seen the net total of track miles in the system go down.
Back to the comment on the Manhattan Bridge, the tracks were rebuilt and supports were reinforced so it's not classified as an expansion but I will say that it has helped Brooklyn residents to expanded options via 6 Av or via Broadway from the Brighton and 4 Av lines.
Nonsense. It is a true extension of subway service because it serves new sections of Jamaica not previously served from Queens Blvd. Get off the railbuff crap and take a reality check.
Yes it does serve new sections but in terms of distance heading east, it is not a true extension.
Get off the railbuff crap and take a reality check.
And what railbuff crap am I on if I'm giving a relevant discussion? And please tell me [and others] how we need a reality check.
FLATBUSH41! You aren't agreeing with Ron! That's the railbuff crap you're on!
And please tell me [and others] how we need a reality check.
He's in a fantasy world. He deals with a twisted reality.
He's in a fantasy world. He deals with a twisted reality.
I noticed that "unfortunately" :-\. Ron, you still haven't told us [well me] how I need a reality check.
He never will tell you. Instead, he'll instruct you to write to the local politicians for an explanation.
Do YOU need the rattle and pacifier back when I took it away from you earlier? I though we were haveing an intelligent discussion about solving the FR Cityticket problem; but for a man your age, you act like a child.
I much prefer your Rockaway posts. You showed a lot of insight there. Let's get back to that.
"He gives respect to EVERYONE on this board and you are the only Subtalker who does not acknowledge that."
I do acknowledge it. I still think he needs a reality check on that post.
Before you decide who's mature and who isn't, try cleaning up your own act first. Otherwise your posting on that subject doesn't mean anything. Your last Rockaway posts were a good step. Now cut the juvenile crap, put some paper in your printer and get that awesome CityTicket idea you came up with out to the people who need to see it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Semantics/opinion. Some would say the walk or bus ride from Jamaica Ave to Hillside is no big deal, some wouldn't.
However, what is true and not open to nuances is that the extent of expansion of the system in the last 50 years is totally negligible compared to the previous 50 years. In the last 50 years, at most 10 route miles have been added while 20 or more have been removed.
My hope today is that, with the system under better control and in a goo sate of repair, MTA can build a new line and continue maintaining all of them.
Ultimately, some expansion of service would be nice. But that depends on what's expanded. For example, trying to extend the IRT's existing lines would not be a wise move until the Second Av subway helped relieve the crowds on the train in Manhattan. Once that is done, I'd love to see IRT service extend beyond Brooklyn College. I understand the engineering involved is tough because of soil and water tables and so on.
The original post about this whined on about how Brooklyn gets shafted all the time and pointed to a lack of new subway tracks as evidence. I pointed out that he reached an unsupported conclusion. In fact, MTA has invested a lot in Brooklyn. More needs to be done, of course.
An extension past Brooklyn College would not load the Lex more heavily in the peak direction.
Arti
Yes, it really would. It would increase Lex ridership in the peak direction due to more people from the newly served neighborhoods riding that line. Of course people who rode buses to the current terminal would board earlier than Brooklyn College.
The SAS would primarily handle traffic from above the CBD as you say. However, you look at this much too narrowly, and miss the bigger picture: with crowds alleviated from the CBD onward, Brooklyn-bound riders know they can board the Lex IRT without encountering crowds (not all Brooklyn-bound riuders start in the CBD). Anyone commuting between midtown or within the CBD to Brooklyn would benefit from lower crowding, thanks to the SAS diverting those passengers. Look at the proposed full length SAS map, and you'll see it is an obvious no-brainer.
The only significant crowds possibly removed from Lex are some current tranferees from L (provided MTA decides to build that transfer)and those who live in Murray Hill and Gramercy Park.
«Yes, it really would. It would increase Lex ridership in the peak direction due to more people from the newly served neighborhoods riding that line. »
Lex's peak direction (or to be correct overcrowded direction) is the opposite. That's why MTA's original plan only included the "Stubway".
Arti
False.
The Lex has two peak directions. From the Bronx and Harlem and UES downtown, and from Brooklyn.
The MTA's stubway plan evolved for two reasons, one of which you have described and the other you missed. The peak travel from the north is more overcrowded than Brooklyn-originated travel. However, the Stubway directly addresses Harlem, and is in direct response to an important political demand. Starting SAS construction downtown was a political non-starter.
Think big picture.
Of course, but the one overcrowded is AM from UES as you later admit.
«Starting SAS construction downtown was a political non-starter. »
My recollection is, that it required quite a bit of effort.
Arti
As AP said and I agree, you posts have no basis on what the topic should say. Franklin Ave shuttle was a line improvement, not an extension.. Atlantic Ave LIRR station does not add more track miles. Stillwell will have the same 4 lines, same 4 platforms and same 8 tracks as it's predecessor when it opens next month. So what was the point?
As to what you and Pigs think of my posts, hey, you can think whatever you want. I'm not here to please you. If you want to learn something, that's cool. If not, that's your problem.
Actually 1956 when the connection from Euclid Avenue to 80th Street was built. Grant Avenue is the newest station in Brooklyn.
Well the distance between blocks isn't as long as west of 5 Av but then people could just transfer to the M42 and M104.
As the 2, 3, A, and C are west side lines, I can't imagine where they'd interconnect with the SAS. Passengers bound for east side destinations coming in from Brooklyn can transfer to the 4 or 5 at Fulton St. Passengers coming from the UES or Harlem can transfer from the SAS to the E, V, or 6 at 57th (implying another long underground walkway to 53rd & Lex).
Agreed. To get the A/C, people would have to get off at Houston St or Grand St, take the 6 Av line ot West 4 then catch it, which is unnecessary and time consuming. For the 2/3 there's just no way unless folks decide to take the 6 Av line to 14 St for the 1,2,3,9. [Well it would be good exercise ;-)]. That's why I think the SAS should turn on 125 St and run as a crosstown line to Broadway, where there could be transfer points at each of the existing 125 St stations. It eliminates the need for long passageways.
If you were coming from the east side, you would not go all the way to Grand St to back track up the A/C line. Instead, you'd probably use the (Q) train and transfer at Times Sq, or transfer to the F at Lexington.
If you were coming from a midtown 2nd av destination, you'd probably not even take the 2nd avenue train.
There's always the transfer to the L crosstown line.
The design of the SAS's 125th St terminal is intended to provide for a westward extension along 125th St in the future.
However, it doesn't eliminate the need for the other transfer points. If you're boarding the SAS from the Upper East Side, you're not going to go north to make a connection to a west side train.
How about at Fulton St.? Last time I looked at the plans, there was no transfer from the SAS to the current Fulton St complex. There should be one.
This strikes me as a nice-to-have, but not really essential. From the SAS's Seaport station to the 2/3 platforms at Fulton St would be a rather lengthy underground passageway--roughly akin to the distance between 6th & 7th Avenues. It would be an even longer walk to any of the other platforms in that complex. This distance would make it a rather unattractive transfer.
Well, the SAS itself may not be essential. NYC runs without it.
But if you're trying to go from the 2/3/4/5 or A/C in Brooklyn to the hospitals on the east side of Manhattan, you'd really want that passageway.
It may just be too expensive to build, given that Fulton St is narrow and has a subway under it.
http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/sas_alignment.htm
Another suggestion: go to the Station Parking section of the NJ Transit website and, on Monday, call the numbers listed for Matawan Borough and Aberdeen Borough. Those folks will have a better idea than any of us.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Pete the Pole
Scary that you have a "senior moment" when you're only in your early 30's .....
Also, I posted this on railroad.net, and two or three people there said that I should have to trouble parking at Matawan, so I'm going to go for it.
The line would be a major boost to Manhattan's Hudson River waterfront and it could be a mirror image of San Francisco's Embarcadero with all sorts of "Fisherman Wharf" type places with cheesy souvenir shops, seafood restaurants, et al. Sure, it would cater largely to tourists, but why not? After all, more tourists means more money is being spent and it would make the waterfront more attractive to tourists and locals alike.
Not only that, but it would fill a void in areas that have little or no transit service. Currently, there is no transit along West Street, not even a lousy bus line! Battery Park City has a couple of bus routes, but poor access to rail transit.
This line would only help people get to events at the Javits Center and future Jets Stadium.
The line itself would use modern articulated LRV's, much like the HBLR cars.
What do you think?
I'm a great fan of light rail, but the huge ridership needs in New York mandate heavy rail transit routes, not light rail.
A light rail line in downtown could be used though.
Another feature of this plan, is that no fares are collected: It is presumed that commuters transfered from a subway train or other bus line, and that tourists, and daily workers can be circulated in the CBD without charges.
It obviates the need to collect or enforce a fare scheme.
Elias
Not sure how well that would go over with the DOT and the public in general though...
Arti
It also has Bus Service... Should we discontinue that just because we have a subway...
I don't think so.
The Major Premise of my *master* plan, (such as it is) is to CLOSE the CBD to ALL privately owned automobiles*. Part of that plan includes making Broadway a pedestrian mall, and part of *that* features LRV service up and down Broadway.
Having banned cars from the other Avenues (say Lexington, Park, Madison, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th) [allowing only transit and emergency vehicles] reduces these avenues to say two traffic and no parking lanes. It allows two way street car and wider pedestrian ways.
Delivery trucks would use the streets, streetside parking for trucks would function on the order of airline gates, the various frequent truckers would bid (among themselves) for places and times. Several spots per block would be set aside for random access by occasional truckers.
All free bridges are closed to most vehicles. Tolled crossings are tightly controled. 60th Street is the CBD boundry, and incoming Avenues are protected by control booths.
Subways are supposed to bring people into the CBD, free surface transit is there to circulate them once they are in the CBD.
Elias
Very lightly used compared to other avenues. Also bus service is needed for people unable to use the subway. Light rail won't be for them either.
Arti
Arti
Arti
Arti
Anything is possible.
Arti
For example, if 37th street is the stop, trams in both directions stop short of 37th Street. 36th Street and 35th Street do not cross Broadway, the tram is non-stop to 34th Street. If 36th Street is eastbound, then from the west 36th street loops to 35th street and back to the west. Since the street is restricted to local delivery trucks anyway, this is not such an onerous thing.
The fact that the tram is on a dedicated lane with no cross traffic except at stop streets, it seems to me that a much better headway could be maintained than with busses.
My trams are articulated, about 80 feet long, they are low riders with platform to floor level boarding, possible with an upper deck level. The trams are free, with no fare collection or checking... board and exit at all doors: and that will speed up service too.
Elias
Yes, of course. My grid plan keeps more than that open too, but I did not explain it all.
Yes, 34th Street and perhaps 42nd street will remain open, but no The will be no connection between the Queens and Lincoln Tunnels.
During Rush Hour, I would make the Lincoln exclusive to busses. Allow trucks at other times, maybe even free trucking at night... but remember I closed the island to automobiles. Those who as wish to travel from LI to NJ have the choices of 1) The Verazano via Staten Island; 2) The GWB via the Triboro; or 3) The Tapan Zee via the Whitestone or Throggs Neck.
Brooklyn Bridge will be exclusively pedestrians and LRV, The Manhattan will be exclusively Bus, Subway and Taxis with some off-peak trucking.
The Williamsburg will be Bus and Subway with some Taxi and off-peak trucking.
Private Automobiles with appropriate residential permits may use the Brooklyn and Queens Tunnels.
Elias
How about a loop in downtown Manhattan. WTC-Batter Park city, down west side highway, through battery park, then up south st, then across town via fulton st to City Hall then on to WTC-Battery Park city. It'd connect all the downtown transit hubs(WFC ferry, Battery Park ferries, South Ferry, SI Ferry, Pier 11, South St Seaport, Fulton St, WTC)
I'll be teaching them to move around and explore by transit this spring. I figured I could break down and get the oldest a cell phone, and have them spend the days in Manhattan (where we are working) exploring musuems, parks, etc. Stolling the city and getting to know it. We'd be close by.
Now I see reports that Al Qaeda may be targeting buses and trains this summer. What else, where else?
Moreover, I had suggested to my wife that perhaps the Republican Convention would be a good time to spend our week out of town this summer. She replied that if that's when we want to go, fine, but she isn't letting anyone chase her out of town. But then she has started having nightmares, she tells me, for the first time since early 2002 soon after our 9/11 experience.
Saying to hell with it with yourself is one thing. Saying to hell with it with your kids is another. If I die I won't feel a thing after its over, but if something were to happen to them life will become a permanent hell. But if they can't travel by train and enjoy the city, what is the point of living here. The whole way and how we have chosen to live, intentionally and with much thought, is destroyed.
The irony is most Americans are content to let their kids ride around in cars and hang out with their peers at home with nothing to do and no adults around, but would be afraid to them ride the subway and go to someplace like Manhattan. I know the data, and know better. Or did.
I'm not sure what to tell you. How old are your children now?
Cell phone or not, if I had a pre-teen daughter I wouldn't
be comfortable letting her roam Manhattan unescorted, and that
has nothing to do with terrorism threats.
I have a feeling a lot of New Yorkers will be taking their
vacations when the convention comes to town! Again, not so
much because they are afraid something will happen, as the
CERTAINTY of major inconvenience around town.
There's two, & they wouldn't be roaming. They would be going to a specific place I identify each day, spending the day there, then meeting us back at home.
You have to know my kids -- they have always done exactly as we tell them, and are very confident and interested in taking responsibility. We were thinking about a couple of high school girls in the neighborhood to watch over them for those two weeks, but it would be hard to come up with one who is more mature than they are.
Getting children to learn internal self control, and the reasons for things, was hard work at age 1,2,3 and 4. I was known as a tough dad.
The payoff is now. Some parents were a little too indulgent early on, and their kids are less in control. So now they won't even let their kids walk to school by themselves, at age 10-12. What will happen at 15?
Bottom line is you have 18 years before they have to make all their own decisions and take care of themselves completely. You need to raise adults, not children.
Nothing short of a detonation of a nuclear bomb in midtown (which is of course a small possibility) will make the odds go in favor of cars over mass transit.
But...
Did it really take anyone until now to think that terrorists might target rail systems? Harbor facilities? Dense urban areas?
I don't have any solutions to ease your concerns. Welcome to the new world. Unless we all want to pack up and move to Kansas, I think we'll just have to be like the Californians, with the threat of earthquake over their heads everyday. I know, bad direct comparison, but it still is living with a threat.
Hang in there and good luck with your kids. I'd spring for the cell phone too.
Your pal,
Fred
Cerebal cortex-wise, no. Hormone-wise, yes.
(I think we'll just have to be like the Californians, with the threat of earthquake over their heads everyday.)
Well, that's been the attitude. We're at war, some of us are going to get killed, but if we roll over out city dies. That's the attitude my wife and I took when we went right back to work as soon as Lower Manhattan opened, even though we were queasy from the fumes until they finally got the fires out. This particular sequence of ideas, however, has made me, well, angry that they are influencing my decisions.
Your pal,
Fred
It's more fear and tactic from the terrorists up for re-election in November. OTHERWISE they would have kept their mouths SHUT until near the designated time-coordinates. THINK about it. :(
Anyplace you might want to send them is probably a terrorist target as well. Even walking the streets of the city could be a potential threat.
I have not once allowed the thought of a possible terrorist attack stop me from doing something. Then again, I'm 19, and there really wouldn't be too many serious repercussions if I died. If you lost your kids that would be far more serious. But you can't just live life all penned up.
If you consider it that much of an issue, I'd suggest that you consider moving out of the city.
Considered in detail at the time. No way. We didn't end up here by accident. And we can't just go someplace like it.
As FDR said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
My comment on all the "alerts" issued: Tell the cops and other law enforement types. Keep it OUT of the Media.
All this claptrap justs adds to the general paranoia in the population. It builds and builds.
I'm not changing what I do or where I go.
60,000 people die in car crashes nationwide on average. Every year!!!
Nobody with a car and a license avoids the roads.
2300 people die in the Trade Centers and the administration goes nuts.
Think we need Comedy Central? Just watch the governments.
You've worked too hard raising good kids to make them sit inside all summer when the greatest city in the world is 2 bucks away.
You know the answer to your questions. You've planned out a great summer for them -- exactly as it sounds like you've always wanted, as children of the city.
Teach them to take extra precautions to the extent they can -- know where the exits are, if somebody's acting suspiciously get off and take the next train, learn how to run like hell but still stay together. These are all things you'd probably teach them even if there were no terrorist threat.
But still spring for the cell phone.
CG
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Your pal,
Fred
P.S.: To folks here like SINY_R143: If there is any way that I could enlrge the front to ventilate my frustrations a lot better, PLEASE TELL ME. THANK YOU.
P.P.S.: I do not mean to flame anybody by saying the above.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Here ya go ... the shot you weren't allowed to have ... already "out there" for QUITE a while ...
I've NEVER played looto, knowing a bit of math, but *THIS* wager, I'll TAKE. (grin)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
With this construction ongoing until 2005, I think Broadway Junction should be listed on the maps as a terminal for the L and the timetables should be written around the 9AM-3PM G.O. The ONLY time the L runs "normal" (which is becoming a loose term nowadays) is from 5AM to 9AM and 3PM to 11PM, weekdays. This would be like issuing regular timetables for the B and D lines during the 1995 Manhattan Bridge closure with times listed from the Bronx to Brooklyn for the whole 24 hr day when they only ran through service during certain hours.
In other words, it runs normal for about 75% of the passengers who ride it.
Except that was an extended work where they knew exactly what tracks would be out of service. The L line is liable to change week to week.
North Penn Reporter Article
"According to the affidavit of probable cause‚ Ellis allegedly admitted using trains and buses as transportation from New York to Philadelphia and then to where he committed the burglaries."
"Ellis told police he took a Greyhound bus from New York to Philadelphia and then a SEPTA train to Lansdale. He entered the school through a window near the kindergarten went to an office and found cash and a safe."
Since when did we start bussing burglars in from NYC? Couldn't find anything in the five boroughs worth stealing???? Larry Ellis, Guilty ..... of lack of imagination.
Historical LIRR zones, by our Subtalker George "Widecab" Chiasson Jr.. Special thanks to Mr. Chiasson Jr. for making this possible.
Newark Airtrain. The orignal PNYNJ airport monorail is done by yours truly. I also did the page for Airtrain JFK also.
Look for more new and exciting pages added to this site soon.
Newkirk Plaza David
www.stationreporter.net
Did you see the LIRR pages yet?
Heh, I hate to do a 'Duh!' on you but the LIRR system map is outdated. Still has the Q Diamond, remember? :)
Also, here is my photo website. I am still in the process of updating it and adding to it, but it's finally up.
-Chris
In reference to your link to the EWR Airtrain here: http://www.stationreporter.net/air_train_newark.htm
Not to rag on you, but your article is a bit off base.
Newark Airtrain was the first rail service provided by the Port Authority.
I think that honor goes to PATH. However since the PANJNY didn't build the PATH system, but instead inherited it from H&M and PRR, I suppose it is the first system BUILT by the PA.
The train operates in an elevated monorail fashion
It IS a Monorail, there's no ambiguity there. Namely a straddle steel box beam monorail of the type built by the Von Roll company of Switzerland until they were purchased by AdTranz in 1998 I believe. After that Bombardier received the AdTranz monorail division (what had once been VonRoll) when the main AdTranz Company was sold off to BBD in 2000 (I think). As such, the EWR monorail is a railroad built by no less than 3 different companies. When you consider that each company insisted on their own drawings, procedures and other assorted paperwork, you massively increase the overhead of the project, and it's lucky it came in as low over budget as it did.
(but the JFK AirTrain uses regular track while the Newark version operates on a monorail with the side 3rd rail for power.)
Actually the Newark Airtrain and the JFK Airtrain are nearly completely different in an evolutionary sense. You're basically making the mistake of saying a Shark and a Dolphin must have the same ancestors, after all they both are similar looking marine predators at or near the top of the food chain, and both have similar adaptations, they must be related. We all know that Sharks and Dolphins come from quite dissimilar families on the evolutionary chart, and the same is true of the two airtrains, they share no relation until less than 5 years ago.
The JFK Airtrain system has it's origins in an in-house project that BBD (or possibly it's predecessor, UDTC) put together for an alternative to an extension of Toronto's Bloor-Danforth Subway to Scarborough. Today this system is called the Scarborough Rapid Transit, it operates between Kennedy Subway Station on the B-D Subway Line and McConn, passing 4 stations enroute. The technology behind SRT has gone into 3 other peoplemover-type systems, Vancouver’s Skytrain, Detroit’s Downtown Peoplemover, and of course JFK’s Airtrain. All of them use Linear Induction motors, and all but SRT use ATO operation. Detroit, Vancouver and Toronto use the oldest of the cars, the so-called Skytrain Is, these were incredibly ugly boxes on wheels with 2 doors and a small end door. Vancouver received some new cars, called Skytrain IIs, sometime between 1998 and 2000 when the new line opened on their system. These basically are the cars that run on Airtrain at JFK, the only difference being that the Skytrain IIs have 3 doors to a side to Airtrain’s 2.
EWR Airtrain on the other hand, comes from VonRoll, as was mentioned above, which BBD didn't even own at the time of the building of the SRT, back then VonRoll was an independent Swiss railcar and monorail builder, specializing in small, amusement park-type Monorails. Also note that despite the use of ATO and other systems on the EWR Airtrain, there is no LIM, power comes from rotary electric motors like 99% of the electric trains out there.
Finally in reference to the above quote: EWR has 2 power rails, and one beam with 3 or 4 rails on it (depending on how you count rails) for stability. If you wish to think of it, it has 5 or 6 rails, all packaged on one Beam, making it more of a MonoBeam than a MonoRail. The rails are split on each side of the beam, so that the chance of leakage or arcing between the two rails is lower. The power carried by the two rails is 500vdc (or possibly AC, I've found sources both ways) with an underrunning shoe not unlike the type used by Metro North.
Newark Airtrain uses six car trains, two end cars with the motors and interior console for the movement, while the 4 cars in between are trailer cars.
I'm sorry, but this is patently false, simple research would have told you that. The end wheels on the EWR monorail cars are unpowered, with the wheels in between the other cars powered. Each car has 8 bogies, and each bogie has 2 load/power wheels and 4 balance wheels, that's 16-load/power wheels total per train. Of the 8 bogies, only 6 are powered, the two at the end are unpowered trailer wheels.
JFK uses one or two full length cars. The end cars on the Newark trains have the same rail fan window as the JFK counterparts at one end, however the cars are far narrower in width...
I'll reiterate, EWR Airtrain and JFK Airtrain are only related in the most superficial of ways. They both happen to be peoplemovers built by Bombardier for the PANJNY, who's marketing division decided that it'd probably be a good idea to stick to one brand, hence both are called AirTrain, and as your article proves, mass confusion results. The design histories and development of both vehicles are completely different, and largely you're comparing apples to oranges (or lemons in the case of EWR's Airtrain). And yes EWR's monorail is narrower than JFK's. EWR's also passes THROUGH several of the terminal buildings, while JFK's generally sticks to the inner loop, where the height and width restrictions were not so strict.
...and the trailer cars have only side windows and you cannot see the next car in front or back. Did they build the Newark cars for privacy?
I can assure you that Privacy was likely the last thing on the engineer's minds when building these things. I'm sure the idea of "personalized rapid transit" may have appealed to them, thus making the compartmentalization of the train's 7 sections possibly make sense. However, I'd be willing to wager that the design of the EWR Airtrain cars and all other monorails with compartmentalized designs is much more pragmatic, in fact I know it to be. Since the monorail has 6 driven wheels in between the 7 cars with two unpowered wheels at either end, the traction electronics and motors have to go somewhere, that somewhere is up in between cars.
Disney's Monorails, as well as Bombardier's copycat Alweg-Style monorail cars all feature this handicap. It's important to note that in 1962 and before that Dr. Axel Lennart WEnner-Gren (ALWEG is an acronym from the first letters of his name, with the E added to make it pronounceable) was able to have a monorail which was 4 cars long with a completely articulated design and could have been any length desired. NYCTA crowds could easily have been held by a 10 or 12 car version of the train. The car had only two intrusions into the passenger area, where the bogie was located, and longitudinal seating covered those. Japan has copied the Alweg setup and has improved upon it, their monorails no longer have the intrusion that the 1962 Seattle monorail has, but have a level floor with longitudinal seating along the outsides, like any current NYCTA stock less than 75 feet long.
As such, you can imagine that my definition of a transit monorail, as opposed to an amusement park monorail, is one that allows a passenger to pass through end to end, either by way of doors, or by way of an articulation. As such Disneyland's monorails, Las Vegas' new monorail, EWR Airtrain, all of them do not count as transit monorails, since they lack that basic capacity to move people between cars while the train is underway.
Next time you might want to do some research.
til next time
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=630367
David
Of course then the seating capacity is halved, and I'm willing to bet the divider between the seats might start to work it's way upward after a while. :)
I'm sure no SubTalker made themself eat THAT much filth.
The DOLLAR or 99¢ menus are awesome. For whatever reason, getting many small items is more filling than one large one. It's too bad that they eliminated some of the items that they had originally on it. McDonald's needs to bring back the ribwich. Burger King should bring back the Jalapeño poppers and mozzarella sticks (although McDonald's and White Castle have the latter, so it's no big deal).
Wendy's is the best with regards to the value menu. Their chicken nuggets are on there!
As for fries: When I go to Burger King, I order onion rings. When I go to White Castle, I order onion or chicken rings.
The problem with super size is that they increased the fries and soda, which no one wanted to have increased. If they made the sandwiches bigger, it would be far more popular.
Agreed. Such a concept would have been common sense to McDonalds' but I think they were too shocked from Morgan Spurlock's 'SuperSize Me' despite denying any relation to it when they discontinued the SuperSizing option. It's received rave reviews from the top critics. I'd recommend seeing it when it comes out next month. Visit the official website here.
The DOLLAR or 99¢ menus are awesome.
Indeed they are. I believe Wendy's started this trend... Only McDonald's made their's more publicly known.
For whatever reason, getting many small items is more filling than one large one.
Makes sense. I think many nutritionists attribute weight gain to continuous snacking since you never think it adds up... It's recommended you substitute the snacks for water as it provided the 'filling' feeling as well.
It's too bad that they eliminated some of the items that they had originally on it. McDonald's needs to bring back the ribwich.
It's McRib, actually. A recent episode of The Simpsons parodies this quite well. It's the one where Lisa goes in a national spelling bee contest and Homer is forced to choose whether go there or to chase 'RibWiches' (made by Krusty Burger) around then nation>
Burger King should bring back the Jalapeño poppers and mozzarella sticks (although McDonald's and White Castle have the latter, so it's no big deal).
Certainly.
Wendy's is the best with regards to the value menu. Their chicken nuggets are on there!
Their nuggets have been white meat all this time, correct? McDonald's Nuggets weren't all white until that a judge brought it up in relation to a thrown out suit that claimed that McDonald's made the litigants overweight.
As for fries: When I go to Burger King, I order onion rings. When I go to White Castle, I order onion or chicken rings.
I like your style. I still wonder why McDonald's doesn't offer Onion rings...then again, you have curly fries at Arby's.
McDonald's has just one standard beef patty which is used as the basis for different items. If they had a supersized burger, one that wasn't just two or three stacked patties, they'd have to get a different size.
Note how "hamburger patty" is in quotes.
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
We won't know the answer for a while, as I doubt he'll be able to access SubTalk from Bellevue.
Both rides were on a (B) Slant-40, and timed from initial point of power to zero velocity. Of course, different equipment and different operators can cause variablity, but these times are just as I remembered them from prior years.
I attribute the ten second longer northbound trip to the net uphill climb; W4th is deeper below the surface than 34th, and also Manhattan's surface rises slightly at midtown.
Before the field shunting change, the ride was about 15 seconds faster southbound and 20 seconds faster northbound (the "uphill" portion caused less deceleration back then).
Weight - R-9 = 85,000 Lbs. R-40 GOH = 77,000 Lbs
Horsepower - R-9 = 380 HP R-40 GOH = 460 HP
Please feel free to draw your own conclusions.
But the removal of the shunt for beefier motors may not have resulted in a "draw" ...
R-40 original balancing spees was 50 MPH with the 100 HP traction motors. My documentation was never updated for the post-GOH 115 HP traction motors.
As for perceptions, the R-9s sounded fast.
I can only give you anecdotals on running parallel at speed with other car classes (prior to 46's) and while arnines were MIGHTY slow on getting UP to speed, they did balance ONE or TWO MPH higher than pretty much anything else once they GOT there. Obviously, I'm talking "de minimus" to the extreme here, but they did balance EVER so slightly higher than other pre-GOH equipment once all balanced out without having to change momentum for silly things like station stops, etc. But for my own anecdotal here, I've passed everything else slowly not accounting for trains I was racing going into coast and beginning to apply ... natch, we dusted them then as they slowed down and I didn't. :)
One advantage that the R-9 and it's IRT/BMT counterparts enjoyed over the more modern equipment is that they had a true 'coast' position. Modern (R-10 and up) equipment had no true coast position. It was either power of brake.
I know that someone you know by the name of Eddie most likely has access to one - I expect Branford has one, probably Kingston and very likely Seashore. I *know* they existed, but never saw one (something about my "job title") ... and not only did they have a REAL coast ... they had "unattended coast" as well! Many yardmasters called them "escapees" if you didn't use your ratchets properly. Heh.
You can listen to it via RealAudio
http://www.whyy.org/91FM/RadioTimes.html
A
AA
B
CC
D
E
EE
F
GG
M
My inquiring mind wants to know!!
Tony
I don't know exactly when they were phased out in toto, but the beginning of the end started on the last monday or tuesday in August 1966 with the debut of the R-38's on the F line. There was an article in the NY Daily News headlined "Lighting the Way" with a picture of a VERY happy IND conductor in the "conductors" cab. :^)
Is this correct?
Also, during this same time period (1966), where were the R7s, R7As and R9s were operating? Wasn't this BEFORE they started appearing on the Eastern Division?
When I was a conductor, got REAL good at yanking the door, opening the panel, giving it a shove, pulling the seat and throwing the handles on the 4's and 6's after throwing the "up and over" locks. On the older cars, it wasn't unusual to have only two half doors on a side that actually opened and CLOSED. You had dead motors, unintended trailers, intermittents up the wazoo - the lights would come on after hitting an interlock, go back out and stay out after hitting another and pretty much the same for traction power. They WERE a handful by 1970. Me being the sick puppy I am, I *enjoyed* it ... hell, if the train laid down *I* still got paid. Heh.
7's and 9's were mostly on the Concourse though until they migrated east. Hopefully some other folks with better details of the earlier period will come forward with better details for ya ...
All I can say about your experience with the R-1/9s is, you liked them, they liked you.:) 1689 knows all about that.
Back when *I* worked for the (ta) we were ALL in the same sinking boat. When a train *GOT* to the terminal, it was a RED LETTER DAY! Heh. Call the newspapers! But all of us who did the TA shuffle back then were interested in only ONE thing - Making the railroad work DESPITE Rottenfeller and his republican marching band ... arnines have ALWAYS been more than subway cars to me - they represent SURVIVAL and "wing it or fling it, this pig's gonna ROLL ..." Something SADLY lacking in our chit the pants crowd - terrorists are gonna kill us. DAMN! *WE* had the Russkies, who would have put us under a mushroom cloud ANY DAY, any TIME of the day, any SECOND NOW ... *GEEZ!*
All we've got is this !@$^&$#%@ wimpass Shrub ... "VOTE FOR ME OR DIE." "IGNORE that man behind the blue curtain." :(
Also, during this same time period (1966), where were the R7s, R7As and R9s were operating? Wasn't this BEFORE they started appearing on the Eastern Division?
Far Rock: Virtually all the original IND fleet was still in serice in the summer of 1966. The new cars that were coming in were still being used to replace Standards either directly or indirectly.
In the summer of 1966 the IND Jamaica Line experienced a maintenance meltdown. The yard was so full of bad order cars that even the work trains couldn't get out.
Twenty R-38's had been delivered and were being held out of service for testing. A strike at the St Louis Car Company prevented any further deliveries.
The shortage of R-1/9's reached critical proportions and on August 23 the 20 R-38's began revenue operation to protect the service. One trainset went into service on the E while the other entered service on the F. Both trains entered revenue service at Queens Plaza. The F left first at 950AM to Second Avenue followed by the E to Hudson Terminal.
32 R-16's were transfered from the BMT to the GG and were placed in service on September 12 with some additional readings added to their rollsigns.
In order to replace the R-16's on the Bway-Bklyn Lcl Standards were pulled off the Coney Island scarapline and put back into revenue service.
Larry,RedbirdR33
1. Did Jamaica also swapped their R1/4s with 207th St and Concourse's R6s which were in better shape?
2. Also, during this same time period (1966), where were the R7s, R7As and R9s were operating?
3. Wasn't this (1966) BEFORE they started appearing on the Eastern Division?
Yes:
3. Wasn't this (1966) BEFORE they started appearing on the Eastern Division?
This is correct. R-1/9's did not appear on the BMT until the opening of the Chrystie Street Line in November of 1967.
Sorry, I can't give a defintive answer to #1.
Larry,RedbirdR33
2. Also, during this same time period (1966), WHERE WERE the R7s, R7As and R9s were operating?
My apolgies. I misunderstood your question.
The only references I have are as follows.
June 1964
100-149 Queens
150-299 Bx-WHts
300-814 Queens
815-1489 Bx-WHts
1490-1802 Queeens
By June 1967 it had changed to the following
100-1014 Bx-WHts
1015-1802 Queens.
BY Februay 1968 it looked like this
100-639 Bx-WHts
640-1802 Queens
Although by 1968 they were often mixed up.
Don't know if this will help.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
The Jamaica did switch their R1s and R4s with the Bx and Wash Hgts R6s and even R7s (didn't know about the R7s)
It also tells me that by Feb '68 that the R38s and R40s displaced the R7/9s to the Eastern Division.
Thank you very much for the information. I've been trying to get this information for years.
Just out of curiousity, when did the R1/9s stop operating on the "AA", "B", "D", "GG"?
Thanks.
It also tells me that by Feb '68 that the R38s and R40s displaced the R7/9s to the Eastern Division.
Thank you very much for the information. I've been trying to get this information for years.
Just out of curiousity, when did the R1/9s stop operating on the "AA", "B", "D", "GG
Give me a little time and I might be able to dig up the information.
Are you going on the IRT Fantrip on April 17 (Saturday). I could give you some information that you might find useful. If not e-mail me.
Larry,RedbirdR33@hotmail.com
Again, thanks for the information.
It also tells me that by Feb '68 that the R38s and R40s displaced the R7/9s to the Eastern Division.
Thank you very much for the information. I've been trying to get this information for years.
Just out of curiousity, when did the R1/9s stop operating on the "AA", "B", "D", "GG
Give me a little time and I might be able to dig up the information.
Are you going on the IRT Fantrip on April 17 (Saturday). I could give you some information that you might find useful. If not e-mail me.
Larry,RedbirdR33@hotmail.com
I'm working through the records from 1968 onwards.
the car assignment for the R 1-9's a/o 3/9/70 was
CC 245 cars
D 155
E/HH 148
F 276
EE 100
GG 30
KK 130
LL 123
QB/QJ 30
Cars 100-839 (400 left) assigned to The Bronx CC,D
Cars 840-1439 (560 left) assigned to Queens E,F,GG,HH
Cars 1440-1802 assinged to BMT Eastern Division KK,LL,QJ/QB
Note that there where no R-1/9's aasigned to the B. However Brighton Line passengers started to complain about the old cars and starting Novemebr 23,1970 several trains re-entered service on the B for the first time since March 6,1970
Larry,RedbirdR33
Your quite right. Although in the days after Chrystie Street openned it was always possible to see almost always possible to see any car on any line. This continued into the early 70's as well.
Also since the R-1/9's were reassinged to the B in Novemeber 1970 it would have included the AA as well.
Larry,RedbirdR33
As a result, the D put-ins from Coney could pretty much be anything on any given day such as 486-107-1356-122-1672, etc ... often when going to prep, my northbound D would have to have all the signs changed from F (and Queens got D trains from time to time) ... in other words, yard assignments were not necessarily an indicator of what was actually "out there" ...
Back then though, motor and truck replacement was Coney's exclusively as far as I knew back then, so if something was B/O'd, it'd go to Coney. They'd run through them and knock together 10 cars of whatever came off the big bug and off it went. And while they may have TRIED to get it back to its assigned yard, a particular car in a particular train would get there eventually via the scenic route. And while I remember Coney D trains MOSTLY being 4's and 6's, there were a lot of 1's and 9's in them too. Even 1575 would make a guest appearance now and then too - that thing stuck out like a lighthouse in the middle of the Pacific and I don't think it was ever assigned to the D ...
Back then, it was "wing it or fling it" and "if it moves at ALL, it GOES" ... them was desperate times and car and whole train swaps were QUITE normal ...
The phenomenon of old E/new F persists to this day, with the F being predominately R46 (but with a recent significant infusion of 32s) and the E being predominately 32s. However, between November '81 and December '90, I saw nothing but 46s on both lines.
So, Brighton passengers "complained" about having old trains? And the TA acted on these complaints? Obviously ten years of 27/30s and Brightliners spoiled them. Maybe this is why 1/9s seemed to disappear from the D around 1972. Of course, passengers on the QB, Concourse, Canarsie and Jamaica lines had to suffer with them for another four to five years. I guess nobody on those lines complained-
The last time I remember seeing a 1/9 on the EE was also in '72, to be replaced largely by 16s, 38s and the occasional 32, Mod-40 or 42. Likewise, the M seemed to stop carrying prewars in favor of 27/30s and 42s at the turn of 1972-73 when it replaced the QJ as weekday Brighton local.
I NEVER saw a 1/9 in revenue service on the A, AA, B or QB in person-only on photos in this site.
Right off the top of my head, I can remember riding on nine prewar AA trains - all before November of 1967.
Tony leong
But it happened to me, happened to a few others as well ... rush hour, natch ...
In all seriousness, if you ain't got the Ooomph to go forward, then if you release the air, that puppy's going to go the wrong way, resulting in ummm ... "customer injury" ... stop and stay was the only alternative at that point until I could get a push from a "real" train.
Indeed: The Fab Four. Now there's only two left.
I rode both trains of R-38's the second day that they were in service. They really were quite nice and that TA logo with the R-10 on it was a nice touch.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Can't remember anything that even remotely hinted at something like that. It was the usual feelgood pap fed to the sheeple, nothing a railfan would find memorable (only an investigative reporter would've revealed stuff like that, even then, only after a fire).
I'm not one to ask, as I was in the city only on Saturdays back then. Once the R-32s too over on the AA, the R-1/9s were rarely seen there.
The last run of the R 1/9's on the IND was on September 22, 1976 on the CC between Bedford Park Boulevard and Euclid Avenue. The consist was (n)1057,937,1283,1294,1132,1004,1145,1314.
The last run of the R-1/9s on the BMT was on March 31,1977 on the J. It left 168 Street-Jamaica at 801AM and ran in "A" skip-stop service to Broad Street. The consist was (n) 1398x722,1497,1654,1584,1693,1416,1683,1676. One posters on this board (I believe it was Mark) stated that there was a second train behind this one.
It shuold be noted that until a few weeks ago this was the last operation of the R 1/9's in regular revenue service. But on the March of Dimes Fantrip the cars once again ran in regular revenue operation.
Larry, RedbirdR33
I was on a similar fantrip in 1974 when a fantrip of D-Types ran in regular service on the Culver Shuttle after nearly an absence of ten years. Not only where the local passengers surprised but we probably set an all-time one day ridership record for the Culver Shuttle as the fantrip was packed with railfans.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Bless their souls. May they operate in regular service for years to come, and to the delight of many.
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Tony Leong
http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/Daves-Tourist-Photos/MN_98st4
http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/Daves-Tourist-Photos/MN_98st3
So your hole in the fence looks like it was in the right part of my photo here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/04/realestate/04SCAP.html
MPEG video of the original film HERE:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/mbrs/lcmp002/m2b19440.mpg
And "QuickTime" here:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/mbrs/lcmp002/m2b19440.mov
And the LINKS to these were right here on nycsubway.org ... sheesh. :(
Ok, with as big a tripod and cine camera as you would like!
: ) Elias
I made this site with, what I consider, the best free hosting around-freewebs.com. Now, they do give you an annoying URL, but there are NO ads, EXTREMELY EASY online editing, professional looking templates, easily add HTML/Flash content and easily change the template/look of your site with one click. I would recommend this to anyone who wants to have a nice transit site or whatever site. They even have paid services w/ real domain names. Click here for freewebs.com
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Your pal,
Fred
Forgot to mention: The photo is from the 1940's.
Also Two questions about Coney Island: 1. when is the rebuilding supposed to finish and 2. What lines will serve it.
I have tried to find info about it online and have come up short. Any information will be helpful.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Jack
-Chris
Jack
Jack
You can make it from NYP to Coney Island and back. Stick with the first car and you should be OK.
Well next time I go to GCT I'm taking all the damn pictures I want, and I'll be damned if anyone stops me.
Preserve our freedoms and fight back!
U.S. Transit Systems Increasing Security
Updated 7:24 AM ET April 3, 2004
By CURT ANDERSON
WASHINGTON (AP) - A warning that terrorists might strike trains and buses in major U.S. cities using bombs concealed in bags or luggage has the nation's transit systems ratcheting up security measures.
Greg Hull, security chief for the American Public Transportation Association, said Friday the transit systems are at "code yellow-plus" following the bulletin about a possible terror plot from the FBI and the Homeland Security Department.
U.S. officials said they had received uncorroborated intelligence reports about a plot by terrorists to target commercial transportation systems but had no information about specific cities or dates.
A senior federal law enforcement official, speaking Friday on condition of anonymity, said the intelligence, coupled with the deadly March 11 commuter train attacks in Madrid in which bombs went off inside backpacks, has increased the level of wariness about a similar attack in the United States.
"It should not be considered unusual that the FBI should issue this kind of a bulletin in the wake of what occurred in Madrid last month," the Amtrak passenger railroad said in a statement.
Homeland Security spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said information in the bulletin was being shared via the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System to ensure proper security measures are implemented nationwide.
Officials said the message was sent mainly out of an abundance of caution, and the threat _ deemed "somewhat credible" by one official _ was not causing undue alarm throughout the government.
The nation's terror alert level remains at yellow, or elevated, the midpoint of the five-color scale. It was last raised to orange, or high, on Dec. 21 amid suspicions about terror attacks using commercial aircraft. The level returned to yellow on Jan. 10.
Passengers could see changes because of the bulletin. Federal officials are encouraging local transit authorities to conduct random passenger inspections and security sweeps of stations and to increase public announcements encouraging people to report unattended baggage or suspicious behavior.
Intelligence indicates a plot might involve bombs made of ammonium nitrate fertilizer and diesel fuel, similar to the explosive concealed in a rental truck that blew up the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995. Both items are readily available.
The improvised bombs would be concealed in luggage and carry-on bags, such as backpacks or duffel bags, and detonated either aboard buses or trains or in transportation stations, the government warning says.
Al-Qaida and other terrorist groups have "demonstrated the intent and capability" of attacking public transportation systems using a variety of bombs, the bulletin says. Attacks in Israel, Greece, Turkey, Spain and elsewhere have used suicide bombers or triggered bombs with timers and cell phones.
Between 1997 and 2000, more than 195 terror attacks occurred on transit systems worldwide, congressional investigators say.
On Friday, Spanish authorities found and disarmed a bomb connected to a detonator with a 450-foot cable under tracks of a high-speed railway between Madrid and Seville.
More than 9 billion trips are taken each year on the U.S. public transportation system, with 32 million trips every weekday _ about 16 times the number of trips taken on airlines, according to the American Public Transportation Association.
The association estimates that $6 billion is needed to upgrade and modernize U.S. transit systems to meet security needs. The Transportation Security Administration dedicated only $10 million for passenger rail and public transit security in the current year's budget, according to the House Homeland Security Committee.
"Failure to invest in the security of passenger rail and public transit could leave these critical systems vulnerable to terrorist attack," the committee's Democrats said in a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge. "Making these systems as safe as they can be from terrorist attack must be a high priority."
After the Madrid bombings, the Homeland Security Department announced a series of security initiatives, but with no major new funding plans.
___
Associated Press writer Katherine Pfleger Shrader contributed to this story.
___
On the Net:
FBI: http://www.fbi.gov
Homeland Security Department: http://www.dhs.gov
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Terror Warning
News on the Hour
World News
Tonight
MARKET DATA
GET STOCK QUOTE
And besides that, I can't wait for the sleazy anti-transit campaigns to start using that figure to persuade people about the evils of transit.
"Between 1997 and 2000, more than 195 terror attacks occurred on transit systems worldwide, congressional investigators say. "
Maybe I changed the point of the message, but that's some of the stances and outcomes I can see happening.
A good friend of mine, who's not exactly the best driver in the world, will ask, "Is it safe?" if I suggest she take a train.
Your pal,
Fred
One reason why I supported the Iraq war (actually, THE one reason) is that the US can now put bases in Iraq and wouldn't need to have any in Shitty Arabia, the world's prime sponsor of terror. Now if we need to, we can attack the REAL Axis of Evil fairly easily.
No Mike, even Romans had plumbing.
Which is what I was referring to, the Islamic world. What's your point.
"DEFINATELY"Definitely not part of the civilized world.
Peace,
ANDEE
Even rich places like the United States can give birth to terrorists (McVeigh, et. al). I'd like to see a suicide bomber come from Kansas City who used to live in Bayside.
Bravo!
We tend to sometimes think of people with turpins as potential terrorists. The ones with the turpins are safe. Terrorists try to blend in to society so that they can plan their dirty work. They don't want to stand out and have people possibly discover what they are planning.
Saudi Arabia is quite complex. Here is my take. In theory, the crown is in control of the country. The royal family likes our money and tries to look like our friend so we buy their oil. The real power though is in the hands of the religious mullahs and they want the clock turned back a thousand or so years. The mullahs are the one pushing the extremely conservative teachings. They are the ones who are causing many segments of the population to take our oil money and give it to Osama, Hammas and other groups with similar intentions.
Matthew Mummert
Matthew Mummert
Iran, and the fundamentalists in Iraq, are of a different variety.
Wahhabism does require any reason other than not being a Wahhabist for jihad.
It remained a minor sect until the repressive policies of the House of Saud and only achieved promise thirty years ago. The reason Osama (who is an adherant of Wahhabism) was able to build it into a threat is that the bin Laudin wealth (via the House of Saud) provided the massive amounts of money that made Al Queda a threat.
Some terrorist experts believe that capturing or killing bin Laudin might reduce Al Queda to a regional threat only or might dismember it entirely.
A *TRUE* patriot would NEVER withstand erosions of OUR freedoms for the benefit of those who would harm us. What we're doing (and what you speak of) is PRECISELY what the terrorists *WANTED* ... to speak in FAVOR of "clamping down on the American people and our WAY OF LIFE" is only SERVING the terrorists and doing THEIR will instead of OURS. Was this acceptable as public policy during the "Cuban Missile Crisis" or the PINNACLE of where we almost *DID* get nuked? The "Mitchell affair?"
Once again, no offense - but if we INSIST on this silliness, then the prophetic words of Benjamin Franklin are as meaningless as Rush Limbaugh. :(
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
INTERCOURSE AL AQEDA *and* the "current regime" ... we're AMERICANS dammit ... aren't we BETTER than this? :(
I still see nothing wrong with a police officer asking me why I'm walking along the LIRR ROW in my town. If I'm asked why I'm taking pictures, I don't mind answering. I don't view those as abridgements to my personal freedom. I found not being able to take an R train to Brooklyn after 9/11 a major infringement, however. Lets face it, our government has not changed our way of life. It's the lunatic islamic Fundamentalists that we can thank for that.
Let's be REAL here - I know you value "real" which is the ONLY reason I'm posting ... this is ***SO*** off topic for here, but BECAUSE folks are wetting their pants over getting on a TRAIN lately, it's ever so remotely ON topic for here, thus I'll feed this kitty. :(
We're being PHUCKED with here ... I won't peddle the so-called "liberal stance" that the 2000 elections were a LITERAL COUP D'ETAT. But let's be real here - Americans did NOT blow up WTC or the Pentagon - these were "visitors" on the PRECIOUS republican H2 visas here ... the FAILURE was in IMMIGRATION CONTROL and MONITORING and NOT a failure that requires that AMERICANS be punished ... *HAD* the government DONE its job, WE wouldn't be being punished and there'd be no damned NEED for any of this.
I don't see how FURTHER sublimating the American people would correct the flaw. It'd be a LOT more "AMERICAN" to just say "you ain't a citizen, GET OUT" ... THAT would SOLVE the problem aside from PROPERLY manning and maintaining the desks at "Immigration" at the entries of way ...
Am *I* *missing* something here? :(
As to "non-citizens", no one seems to be MORE in favor of illegal immigration that the "party of Lincoln" (can't BELIEVE that Wal*Mart has to go "off the street" for labor for that miraculous $5.25 an hour that they pay) and the "give them drivers licenses" stuff nor the "Mexican truckers" thing ... but I digress. MAYBE they'll vote republican, and the CUBAN vote overrides AL Qaeda ... NO JOKE ... the REASON why AL QAEDA got into the country to BEGIN with is the republican congress' little "H2 visa" trip ... meanwhile HAITIANS get turned away. :-\
SERIOUSLY though ... all TWENTY of the terrorists were on the "do NOT admit" list ... only problem is BUDGET CUTS prevented the INS people who COULD have stopped them by having the DATA let the bastards IN because they didn't SHOW UP on the immigration computers. :(
So we HAD 20 out of 20 ... once again, why are *WE* being punished for the failures of our *****POLITICOS*****?????
Oh PLEASE, call it what it is MALL-WART 8=)
Peace,
ABDEE
That's your opinion, but I certainly wouldn't agree.
This story in Time will probably anger you. Homeland security is becoming just another pork barrel.
We can go to ultimate security where anyone who isn't where they're supposed to be can be subject to arrest or at least questioning. "Isn't where they're supposed to be" is rather broad, but that's what it will come to IMO.
Look at what's happened since 9/11
The U.S. is more a house divided than in almost any time in history.
The U.S. is engaged in 2 costly wars that could potentially bankrupt us. Fighting terrorism is war without end. Ask Israel.
We are ready to tank the Constitution for perceived security and lock ourselves in some safe haven, rather than live our lives as a free society.
If this is what Al Qaida planned with their attack (other than the Iraq war) then they acted with sheer genius. If not, they've been handed the luckiest tactical hand of cards in recent history.
So what can we do?
A. Stop underestimating the enemy. They are clever, move quickly and are decentralized enough so that there is no 'dragon's head' to cut off and defeat them. Stop thinking that they are simply envious of us or that they simply want to kill anyone non-Islamic.
B. Make public any and all information regarding who was asleep at that switch before 9/11. This is clearly not going to be easy and heads will roll, but it will have a cleansing effect on our intelligence agencies. Or not, if this was indeed a classic case of corruption.
C. Lose, once and for all, this concept of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. That's a foolish and weak strategy and ensures later betrayal and tactical problems in the future. Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega...
D. Saudi Arabia is not our ally. Nuff said.
E. Patch up as quickly as possible the diplomatic damage done to our alliances before the Iraq war. The clumsy and arguably childish tactics the U.S. engaged in to bring war to Iraq have done considerably more harm than good and gave terrorism another victory. All countries need to be united against terrorism and we need to restore credibility to our foreign policy. ('Freedom Fries' - give_me_a_friggin_break).
F. Military options work best when performed in tandem with adroit diplomacy. If you don't believe this, then ask yourself how far you are willing to go militarily to end terrorism? Do you feel that it may require more intense warfare, perhaps a Final Solution?
G. Make a concerted effort to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian war. This is a US led UN project; we've been unsuccesful going solo on this and it seems to me that it's not treated as very important to anyone in office right now.
I. Take away this six pack of IPA; I gotta get off this soapbox!
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
While I despise Sharon for FANNING the flames of terrorism, there's ONE thing I AGREE with ... IF you're going to make war, we'll SHOW you that not only isn't it worth it, but the PRICE of it is TOO damned high. This is the ONLY reason why we survived the "cold war" ... and it's DAMNED well good time to say "you can live with us in peace and cooperation, otherwise we'll take you out. COMPLETELY."
The ONLY solution to terrorists is a GUARANTEE that they can be outdone. During the "cold war" the CONSEQUENCES were *SO* extreme that nobody DARED to be stupid ... now these bastards have CARTE BLANCHE. Call me a "liberal" if you will, but the ONLY solution is OVERWHELMING "Oh yeah?" ... and OUR leaders have no balls. They'd rather do the WILL of the terrorists by taking *US* out than doing the REAL enemy and PROPERLY funding the necessity. WHERE IT MATTERS. :(
Okay, I'm easy. Nuke em.
The lunatics in power make the TALIBAN look reasonable. :(
I guess the policy should be changed to read Any state that harbors or gives support to a terrorist that strikes the US or a US interest will pay the ultimate price as long as doing so will not cause any hardship to the American people or as long as the country in question cannot put up any real resistance, ala Afghanistan & Iraq!
Afghanistan as a target was a correct choice. Not because of its ability to resist but its direct link to the 9/11 terrorists. Would Saudi Arabia have made a better second target than iraq did? Perhaps yes but look at the fallout. Going after Saddam gave Khadafi pause and he changed his position. He saw the insanity of being an enemy of this nation. However, if we flattened Saudi arabia, presumably an allie of ours, than how would Khadafi have felt more secure in moving in our direction. Might he have thought that even as an 'allie', he might too be attacked? Besides, one more major attack on US soil and I think Saudi Arabia will taste out ire, too.
Your pal,
Fred
Afghanistan, as a target, was a correct choice. Not because of its ability to resist but its direct link to the 9/11 terrorists. Would Saudi Arabia have made a better second target than iraq did? Perhaps yes but look at the fallout. Going after Saddam gave Khadafi pause and he changed his position. He saw the insanity of being an enemy of this nation. However, if we flattened Saudi arabia, presumably an allie of ours, than how would Khadafi have felt more secure in moving in our direction. Might he have thought that even as an 'allie', he might too be attacked? Besides, one more major attack on US soil and I think Saudi Arabia will taste out ire, too.
Afghanistan as a target was a correct choice. Not because of its ability to resist but its direct link to the 9/11 terrorists. Would Saudi Arabia have made a better second target than iraq did? Perhaps yes but look at the fallout. Going after Saddam gave Khadafi pause and he changed his position. He saw the insanity of being an enemy of this nation. However, if we flattened Saudi arabia, presumably an allie of ours, than how would Khadafi have felt more secure in moving in our direction. Might he have thought that even as an 'allie', he might too be attacked? Besides, one more major attack on US soil and I think Saudi Arabia will taste out ire, too.
Afghanistan, as a target, was a correct choice. Not because of its ability to resist but its direct link to the 9/11 terrorists. Would Saudi Arabia have made a better second target than iraq did? Perhaps yes but look at the fallout. Going after Saddam gave Khadafi pause and he changed his position. He saw the insanity of being an enemy of this nation. However, if we flattened Saudi arabia, presumably an allie of ours, than how would Khadafi have felt more secure in moving in our direction. Might he have thought that even as an 'allie', he might too be attacked? Besides, one more major attack on US soil and I think Saudi Arabia will taste out ire, too.
I think both Russia, China and France have enough nuclear weapons to make attacking them not in our best interest.
Moreover, look how we have been treating that total scumbag in North Korea with the kit gloves because if we make the slightest move against him he'll destroy both Soeul and Tokyo. Despite that Kim whatever his name being about 100 times the threat of Saddam, we feel we can negioate with him. The facts speak for themselves, this administration only enters fights it can win in a politically positve way.
Also, Iraq did not have any cohereant policy of terror support. Al Queda's fundamentalist stance was a grave threat to Saddam's secular regime. In fact, the best thing we could have done to suppress terrorism in Iraq was to keep Saddam in power.
All this so called "policy" has done is expose the regime in Washington for the double dealing hypocrites they are.
If you are an honest debater you will provide us with a legitimate source for that statement.
What is with you and this arguement here. Were not you railing on about your tax burden like 5 threads ago? Why do you want to cut social services for your fellow Americans, yet liberally dole them out to people who hate our fucking guts??
You know it's musheads like yourself that has allowed the Bush regime to subjugate this country. First they hook you in with the Republican greed and it's promices to screw all of "those people" who are making your life so darned miserable. Next, then they themselves become the ones giving it to you up the ass they distract you with patriotic paranoia. You need to open your eyes man, turn off the AM radio and open a book or something.
Yes, I want my taxes cut. I want to eliminate government waste in welfare, medicare and SSI fraud. Do you think this is a wrong-minded goal? The problem with you is that you only see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe. I don't believe in saving the iraqis. I've said many times that that it would not bother me if we took that entire region of the world and melted it and then paved it over. I don't want another one of my tax dollars to go to save anyone in that region. The current administration is wrong to confuse regiem change with some obscure moral obligation to save the iraquis. A pox on all of them. Saddam's gone, let's move on.
My point is why search the couch for spare change when your stack of 20's is blowing out the window. Shut the window first then spend your time picking up the change. In fact, compared to the stack of 20's you just saved the change might not even be worth your while anymore.
Every argument you pose must be an all or nothing proposition.
Why don't you be more specific? I don't feel I have done any such thing.
Yes, I want my taxes cut. I want to eliminate government waste in welfare, medicare and SSI fraud. Do you think this is a wrong-minded goal?
At this point in time, yes I do. You are re-arranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship and you should refactor your priorities. Moreover I think you have horribly simplified the problem at hand. "Eliminate Fraud" is a trojan term that trickes people into supporting an issue before they get socked with the details. How much fraud do you think there actually is? How much will it cost to fight this fraud? How many legitimate users of a service are you willing to screw to eliminate this fraud? Your Republican rethoretic in no way answers these hard questions.
I don't want another one of my tax dollars to go to save anyone in that region. The current administration is wrong to confuse regiem change with some obscure moral obligation to save the iraquis. A pox on all of them. Saddam's gone, let's move on.
It seems that you need another history lesson. Will you agree that we should be fighting terrorism? As was evident from Afghanistan, Sudan and Somolia, ignoreing the problems does not cause them to go away, in fact it makes them much worse. When we left the Afghans in a lurch after the fall of communism the Taliban came to power. When we failed to support the Shah the Allatolah came to power. Saddam was not a terrorist threat to this country. He cared more about himself than he did getting back at us. He knew if he ever tried anything that we would invade in a nannoseccond. Terrorists were a threat to his regime therefore keeping him in power helped safeguard the US against Iraqi based terrorists. However, since we made the decision to remove him, simply leaving Iraq in a lurch will only create another Afghanistan. A theocratic terrorist haven. Frankly, I don't think we can prevent such a thing from happening even with our assistance, but that is neither here nor there. Fighting terror (or communism) is not a simple matter of killing a few people or dropping some bombs. It takes effort and resources directed in a careful and intelligent fashion. And keep in mind that starving people who have embraced religious fervor have little fear of bombs or missiles.
What I want you to do is to hold this administration responsible for it's ineptitude, get mad and refuse to take it any more.
I don't need to hold this administration responsible for anything. If you do, then you get your chance in November. Just remember that it was the Clinton administration that missed the free shots at bin Laden after he had declared war on the US. He was too busy having the presidential knob polished and with most of the blood not reaching his head, he was unable to think straight. Now if you want to vote for Kerry, do so. He's easier to agree with since he's on both sides of every issue.
Finally if you think that eliminating fraud in any gov't program is wrong then shame on you.
You must live in a very unusual jurisdiction if the greatest portion of your property taxes doesn't go for the local school system.
And when you retire, would you really honestly prefer to have lower taxes and pay all your own medical bills, no matter how high or low, yourself? If you are lucky you'll save a bundle; if you're unlucky you'll have to sell your home to pay your medical bills.
Medicare is really much more of an insurance program (the lucky healthy folks subsidize the unlucky unhealthy ones) than an entitlement program.
When I talk about medicare amd medicade, I'm not talking about the ones who need it. i'm talking about those who frequent mills to get free prescriptions that they turn around and sell. I'm talking about other scams that people like me pay for. Anyone who doesn't think there are welfare scams, medicare scams and SSI scams either has their head in the sand or between their butt cheeks.
There are welfare scams. There are also scams in user-fee-supported public agencies like NYCT and the MTA. There are also scams in private companies - a big company like Verizon or Con Ed is always finding someone's hand in the till.
A reasonable amount of diligence is always critical, or else the scammers run wild. But if you think that reducing fraud in any of the above can significantly cut your taxes, user fees, or utility bills, I think you are very mistaken.
We're ready to scrap what makes this country great due to extreme national paranoia.
It's because America was too used to winning its wars. Until 2001, every war in which this ocuntry had fought ended as an American victory. True, the outcome of Vietnam was questionable, but we can take solace in the fact that we inflicted far more deaths on the enemy than we suffered in return. But then comes 9/11, one of the most crushing defeats in world history, and the nation goes psycho. We strike out blindly at our own people, rapidly becoming a police state in the process, yet do nothing to the real enemy except a pathetically feeble "attack" on Afghanistan.
The most efficient place to erect security barriers is at the border. Moreover, we need to activly go after the real causes of terrorism like Shitty Arabia and religious fundamentalism in ALL it's forms. If I had the choice b/t building a wall and giving the desperate populations a reason not to go blow themselves up I'd pick the latter.
Palestinians employed in ISRAEL *HAD* a chance for a brighter future, and economic independence and PROSPERITY. INSTEAD, the morons LITERALLY blew all that up. :(
*ZERO* sympathy for them ... they *HAD* a chance, they LITERALLY BLEW it. *IF* "Islam" wants to live in the era of the "crusades" (a moral BLOWOUT for us "Christians" as a BAD example of "imperialism") then if THIS is the way the religion plans to manifest itself to the rest fo the world (I've READ the Quran) then those INFIDELS who blaspheme Mohammed by these acts DESERVE to be melted into glass, exterminated like cockroaches. :(
I *KNOW* Islam ... the NONSENSE ongoing is anything *BUT* the faith. If THESE are the "martyrs" like Catholics before the lions, then they DESERVE to have their "Stomachs roasted in hell." :(
"Trying to secure the rail, bus, ferry, w/e else systems is a pointless waste of money. It can't be done."
It depends on the price, in terms of money, time, and loss of freedom.
I think some proposals for increasing safety are worth the price, and others are not. Other people's opinions disagree with mine. As long as we can have a national debate on which price is worth paying and which is not, we'll be OK. Unfortuntely, a few people, some with considerable influence, aren't open to a debate on the topic.
The rest of my post is not "silly", it directly addresses your point. Totally securing the subway, which is not possible anyway, will only prevent deaths in subway related attacks, it will not generally prevent deaths due to terrorism.
While there is a level of security that does make sense, trying to make a transit system proof against the likes of suicide bombers is a fools errand. Nobody spends more on security than Isreal and look how they have been able to prevent bus bombings.
So after everyone is driven from the subway due to the 20 minutes background interview and bag search what exactly would you be saving? The lives of people now blown up on buses or the subway infrastructure that is now sitting there unutilized?
I think the ultimate solution is for us to take the war to them and make the consequences of their actions so horrific that no nation will think of giving terrorists a safe haven.
Have you ever considered what would happen if a nation's "terrorist" stance reflected the popular will of it's people, possibly due to the policies and actions of the United States? Hmmm, I think a case study is in order. Did dropping more bombs on North Vietnam than were dropped on Germany in WW2 cause the North Vietnamise to abandon their terrorist insurgency of the south?
What do you think it is about this country that the Islamc Fundamentalist lunatic fringe don't like? Our movies and other images of our culture that find their way into their lands and 'corrupt' their culture. They will tollerate nothing but stict Islamic fundimentalism.
As for your subway scenerio, I'm not suggesting El Al style security for the subways because it would be impracticla at best but does that mean that you don't employ technology that will work? Does it mean that if you can't protect against every eventuality you protect against none?
I've deliberately ignored your injection of North Korea into the argument because korea is a smoke screen. Korea has not yet become a terrorist threat to this nation. The issues are different. The mind-set is different and the solution must also be different.
Let me give you an analogy. Suppose you have a rural courthouse. You'd like to keep weapons out of the courthouse, but have no metal detectors, one at each of the two entrances to the courthouse.
The county says they can only afford one metal detector, but both entrances MUST be kept open for both entry and exit (fire codes or whatever).
You reason, Well, having a metal detector at one entrance is better than having none at all, since this way at least you screen half the people coming in.
Does this work?
True, you might catch a couple retards who carry a piece through the detector and get caught, and the few people who look particularly suspicious might be taken aside and made to walk through the magnetometer, but the simple fact is anyone with an IQ greater than their age who wants to carry a weapon in will simply use the entrance that has no metal detector, and be as inconspicuous as possible while doing it. Simply put, twice the number of weapons will pass through the unsecured entrance, leading to the net same number of weapons smuggled into the courthouse.
To come back to the real situation: Suppose you screen all passengers and packages boarding every Amtrak train. Then they'll just go after the unsecured LIRR and NJT trains at Penn Station. And last I checked, rush hour commuter rail trains generally are much more densely packed than any Amtrak train ever is, so they're better targets in general for Osama's maximum death and devastation MO.
And suppose you bite the bullet and screen all passengers entering commuter rail trains at Penn Station. Who's to stop someone from getting on at one of these little bus stop suburban stations, most of which are at or near street level with little isolation from the surrounding area, so anybody with half a brain could sneak by the security checkpoint (if you can even afford to put a checkpoint at each of the hundred or more commuter rail stations in the metro area.) And even if you did that, what about someone getting on the Lex at some dinky station in the Bronx, riding it down to GCT and blowing up his backpack then?
All you do by adding security (screening passengers, etc.) is cause the terrorists to ply their wares elsewhere - it doesn't cut down the total number of incidents at all, except in the rare case that you get lucky when dealing with a retard (i.e. the shoe bomber, moussaoui and the chicago dirty bomber, all of whom seem to be a few cans short of a sixpack...)
The real way to stop them is to stop these attacks in the planning stage, and this depends on intelligence and surveillance.
The only way to stop them altogether is to convince the potential terrorists that the risks are too great and the benefits too small for them to try anything. Osama managed, through 9/11, to get himself on the sh*t list of every country in the world, sparked two major US-led wars, and singularly shifted the focus of the world's foreign policy. Bush abandoned his "hands-off" Mideast policy altogether in favor of a strongly pro-Israel, pro-democratization foreign policy, exactly what Osama doesn't want. That, I believe, is why al-Qaeda has not repeated 9/11, at least in the US, because they know a repeat of 9/11 will cause them to reap the whirlwind - possibly next time we'll nuke their asses, particularly if they resort to biochem weapons. Other countries haven't fared so well - the Bali bombing, the Madrid bombing, the Saudi bombing, etc.
Another way to look at the problem:
If a terrorist gets into the country and gets his hands on explosives, he can kill a dozen or two people. The situations in Israel, Iraq, and Spain prove that.
Therefore the main efforts should concentrate on:
- Minimizing the number who get in.
- Keeping them from getting access to explosives.
- And the overarching goal should be: keep them from bringing something really major in, like a nuclear device. 90% of the anti-terrorism effort should be going to that, because only a nuclear device can do anywhere near as much damage to this country as we do to ourselves each year with automobiles.
Yeah, maybe you can keep military grade C-4 out of the hands of ordinary civilians, but how do you keep them from making ANFO? Or any of a number of hydrocarbon- or petroleum-based explosive mixes?
It seems that about the only thing that could be done is ban the sale of petroleum and hydrocarbon products, bleach, fertilizer, ammonia, saltpeter, powderized aluminum, magnesium, and a laundry list of other things to anyone named Muhammad, Ahmed, or Mustafa, or who comes into the store with a beard or a turban. I don't think anybody is going to argue that position. And it wouldn't stop a Tim McVeigh, or a WASP designee making the buy for Mohammad, Ahmed or Mustafa.
And there should be pretty strict checking up on people who want to buy a ton of anything dangerous.
I agree with you that it's not possible to prevent small scale terrorism once they get into the country. But 30 pounds of fertilizer here or there, while terrible for the victims, is chicken feed compared to what we do to ourselves with cars. That's why I think 90% of the effort ought to be aimed toward nuclear devices.
Arti
The first question is who holds our debt because our budget and Balance of Payments deficits have become larger than our domestic economy can absorb. The answer is many foreign countries that have had large amounts of dollars that they cannot spend - many of the same arab governments that have also paid off these same islamic terrorists to play their war games elsewhere.
This reality certainly limits how much "pressure" we can apply to encourage these "allies" to help us. Also, we cannot selectively default on this debt because we need all the oil these countries are willing to give us on credit.
As to your justification for your original statement - it's a big no sale here. If a definite link that the Saudi rulers were behind 9/11 or future similar attacks, I don't think any US administration could resist the 'will of the people' to retalliate vigorously and decisively.
But they can instead give some of those dollars away, in relief or welfare aid to neighbouring nations with a similar culture, which don't happen to have oil and are thus poor. And who is to say what people in those poor nations might do with some of that money? You do not have to postulate any malign intent on the part of the *donor* nations to explain why some of this cash ends up subsidising terror.
First: If it's about the balance of payments and national security we take the oil. We could have done so in Iraq if we felt it were necessary. We could in the rest of that part of the world. Of course, do we really need to. US oil reserves plus off shore and North slope fields could reduce the dangers.
Second: Is it all about the oil? it ain't just the gas guzzler SUVs. It'll be the Geo metros too. When the price hits $5/gal. and people can't heat theeeir homes, then even the anti-war groups, the liberals aand democrats will scream for the bloody stuff too. Then we'll see who the true hawwks are.
You CANNOT defend yourself against some WILLING to commit suicide. Just MHO.
Peace,
ANDEE
Israel should kill the families of suicide bombers. At the same time, they should abandon settlements and open a dialogue saying that they are willing to stop and have peace.
Peace must often only follow war.
there you go
Reminds me of the orange county plan, 3 billion in I-4 which engineers said won't do anything to help, but the 400mil for LRT was so horrible.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
And besides that, I can't wait for the sleazy anti-transit campaigns to start using that figure to persuade people about the evils of transit.
"Between 1997 and 2000, more than 195 terror attacks occurred on transit systems worldwide, congressional investigators say. "
Maybe I changed the point of the message, but that's some of the stances and outcomes I can see happening.
A good friend of mine, who's not exactly the best driver in the world, will ask, "Is it safe?" if I suggest she take a train.
1. How often do you use public transportation?
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school?
6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition?
7. What are your monthly housing expenses?
8. What is your income...individual and household? A general answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific.
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
Again, I'd really appreciate any answers you give me. I apologize if any of the questions seem personal in nature, but they would help me with my project. None of your responses will go on the record or be quoted in anything.
Thanks a lot,
Chris R.
1. Every weekday to get to school
2. N/A
3. About 10-15 minutes
4. 'bout 1 mile(5 minutes)
5-9. N/A
10. Yes, never. Used to use it when I played baseball there and when the carnival used to go there
11. burbs
12. closeness to the city, fast rail service to NYC, the number of different races and ethnic groups
13. Too many narrow-minded people, not enough public transportation, traffic
14. improve public transportation
1. N23 every weekday to school, every thursday from school(after school club), and whenever I go anywhere
3. School's a lil over a mile, I walk to the bus stop(5 min), wait(5 min), bus to corner near school(1-2 min), walk trail to school(5 min)...15-20 min total, still faster than walking.
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
Not old enough.
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
One-way commute time: 1 hour, 15 minutes.
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
Less than one mile.
5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school?
6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition?
7. What are your monthly housing expenses?
N/A
8. What is your income...individual and household? A general answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific.
Individual: < $5,000/year. Household: $50,000-$100,000/year
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
Individual: $0 (I get it all back)
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
Right near it. Never used it.
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
Suburbs.
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
Relative quiet, low-density housing, easy access to everywhere.
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
Pollution, traffic, and living expenses.
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
Stop tax-and-spending, support public transportation.
hope these answers help.
Every weekday
2 cars. About 3-5 times a week. 25¢-75¢ occassionally for meters
15 miles. 1 hour and 15 minutes
3/4 of a mile.
No
N/A
I would rather not answer this question on a public forum
I would rather not answer this question on a public forum
I would rather not answer this question on a public forum
Yes. Never
Within the political boundaries of the city
Looking at houses of richer people. Streets that intersect with themselves. View of Lower Manhattan Skyline.
No subway station, few things within convenient walking distance, walking is dull and monotonous.
Build a footbridge over nearby body of water.
Note about the questions I didn't answer: You may e-mail me for the answers
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
- 1 car, $0 parking (house has private driveway).
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
- when I have to go into lower Manhattan, approx. 45 to 60 minutes.
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
- 1/4 mile, but must cross 6-lane road.
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
- property tax $2600/year.
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
- Yes, I use it often in warmer weather.
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
- city.
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
- quiet block, very low crime, good city services.
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
- severe traffic, overbuilding, cant think of 3rd.
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
- Traffic issues hardest as we don't have street grid system here, can't build more highways but could add lanes to expressway. Overbuilding finally being addressed via downzoning.
You mean like how the HMO's have ended up spending more to fight fraud per anum than was actually committed against them in the first place?
Whoops, I just torpedoed your easy answer. Sorry 'bout that.
He may be right and he may be wrong. But I think the record shows that states that keep public assistance spending low have done it mostly by keeping benefit levels and durations low for those who qualify, and that only a small portion of the savings have come from rooting out ineligibles. Those states also tend to deny benefits to a lot of eligible people in the course of rooting out the ineligible.
None of this is meant to suggest that government doesn't have to root out waste. I'm just suggesting the payoff isn't as great as you might think. Thnk for example of a government program you know well, NYCT. I have heard many conservatives claim that it is overwhelmingly full of waste. Do you agree, or do you feel that while there is some waste, most money is spent well?
>>2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
I don't own a car.
>>3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
My commute to HS is about 9-10 mins (SERIOUSLY). But now with S55s rerouted, it is about 15 mins.
>>4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
Around the corner (well a few corners; SI has messed up 'blocks')
>>5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school?
Not yet.
>>6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition?
I don't have kids, but I know that St. Joseph by the Sea HS NEAR my house is $400 a month. I DO NOT GO HERE though, I go to Tottenville HS.
>>7. What are your monthly housing expenses?
I don't pay for a house, my father does.
>>8. What is your income...individual and household? A general
answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific.
I work for my uncle in Dongan Hills making dentures (dental lab) and I earn $50 a week.
>>9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
I don't pay taxes, except for the extra 8.25 or whatever cents per $ sales tax on my purchases.
>>10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
Annadale Park. Also, Fresh Kills isn't far and may become a park soon.
>>11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
I live in Staten Island. City? Suburbs? YOU GOT ME!
>>12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
Easy transportation, very low crime and nice schools.
>>13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do? I live not far from the dump, but that doesn't matter anymore, TRAFFIC and a usually SLOW ASS commute (da ferry iz SLOW-AS-HELL)
>>14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
Light rail, cell phone antennas (especially in my schools courtyard), more bus routes, make all SI local busses $1.00, R160s on SIR and CLEANING UP THE BEACHES.
There you go.
Every weekday, some weekends.
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
One. Most weekends. Park on the street, no expense in cash. But if I had to pay a $25 fee for a permit, maybe the people across the street wouldn't have six cars, and I wouldn't have to take a bus home from my car sometimes..
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
Five miles as the crow flies, 30 to 45 minutes depending on timing and whether or not I go out of my way to walk a mile for exercise.
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
Half a block down, one block over to a 15,000 square foot supermarket.
5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school?
Two kids. Catholic school.
6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition?
About $3,500 per year each, all in.
7. What are your monthly housing expenses?
Depends on what you mean. The mortgate is paid off, we averaged $300 per month for electric, gas, water, phone, long distance, and internet in 2003. Property taxes are just $2,500 per year, because NYC has a local personal income tax instead.
8. What is your income...individual and household? A general answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific.
Household income over $100,000. I earn less than the average college graduate my age in the United States, according to current population survey data. But my wife earns more.
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
Around $67,000 in income taxes. Sales, who knows? Property is above.
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
A 300 acre park, which we go to a few times a month in the winter, a few times a week in the summer.
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
City.
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
Walk or take transit to things, friends and neighbors close by, Manhattan and its economy within a reasonable commute.
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
Underfunded and (previously) poorly run public schools, high housing costs, expensive rental cars (otherwise we wouldn't have bought one).
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
Public school vouchers and/or fair school funding would have helped. Stop Al Qaeda from bombing my train or dropping planes on the neighborhood where I work. For other people, turn around the City of Philadelphia, because based on what people are willing to pay for my rowhouse these days, the demand for a decent urban life exceeds the supply, and Philly is one way to meet the demand.
As for the City of Philadelphia...we're working on it. It's hard with a deteriorated tax base and virtually no help from Harrisburg or Washington. Once your kids are grown, seriously consider moving down here. Lots of up-and-coming areas with very good incentives and you'll get more bang for your buck than in New York.
Your response was appreciated.
Then, of course, you are in favor of repealing Medicare, which IS a voucher program. Make the elderly go to the hospital and doctor they are zoned for, not the one they want, and have the government pay in advance regardless of care. Have the amount paid to health care providers in older cities like New York and Philadelphia be substantially lower than in the surrounding suburbs. But for politically influential elderly within older cities, create special "magnet" hospitals for "gifted" patients. Why "take money away from public hospitals and give them to magnet hospitals?"
You are also in favor of government funded college loans and grants, and tax deductions being limited to the public college or university closest to one's place or residence. Not taking money from public colleges and giving it to places like U Penn. The same rules for different funding for different people would apply.
Think outside the box, and think consistently. Is giving people a voucher a good way to provide services society has deemed that everyone should have, or isn't it? Unless you agree with what I have said above, you are in favor of different rules for different people. People with power get choices, so they can protect themselves, people without power do not.
See www.ipny.org, essays, "Equal Protection."
Also, vouchers only cover a fraction of tuition, so it's up to the parents to cough up the rest of the money. Vouchers thus discriminate based on income.
Also, there isn't an ounce of factual proof that any existing voucher programs have substantially improved education...and neither have charter schools or privatized schools.
In Pennsylvania, anyway, the state constitution reads that a public education will be provided for everyone. Doesn't say anything about government money going to a private education.
Then someone would propose giving vouchers to people so they could shop at the private markets, and people would claim that it diverts money from the public markets and would sue to prevent people from spending their vouchers at Kosher or Halal markets.
Some states would form charter markets run by private institutions but receiving private funds, but that would often have restrictive membership requirements.
Now if we only funded schools with a more equitable tax, such as state income tax distributed to districts rather than local property taxes, then the city schools wouldn't be mediocre while the suburban schools are "better stocked". As long as schools receive their primary funding based on the value of the land, poorer people will always have a crappier education than wealthier people. It's not as hard to fix it as many assume it is...just requires some reworking of the budget and committing mass political suicide in the suburbs and wealthier areas.
Public schools should be abolished. Those that cannot afford schooling would get subsidies from the government.
1) Almost the whole week, except Sundays. Weekdays: Buses (to get to school) Weekends: Buses and Trains (railfanning for leisure)
2)a. My dad owns a Lexus ES300, my mom's boyfriend owns a Volkswagen Passat Wagon (my personal favorite car in the whole world).
b. Both use their cars pretty much all the time.
c. I don't know, but if you're talking about separate meter fares, 25 cents to $2 an hour.
3) I only have to go to school, so on the weekdays, 5-20 minutes.
4) A few blocks.
5) I would be my parents' first kid, I go to public school.
6) Cannot be answered.
7) Around the $2,000s, I think. I could be wrong--only my parents know for sure.
8) Don't know.
9) Don't know.
10) The Henry Hudson Park, right next to my building. I use it occasionally, to play roller hockey or whatever.
11) The West Bronx (Spuyten Duyvil), so that would be the suburbs.
12) The roads are free of potholes and nearly free of stress cracks. The buses come pretty quickly. The area is VERY safe.
13) I hate the (1) and the (9) trains (not because of service, but because of blandbird R62A cars). To be perfectly honest with you, I don't know of any cons around here.
14) Don't know.
I hope I did the best I could--for a naive 11-year-old (LOL). :)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Stop being such an Uncle Tom. You're age alone doesn't devalue you.
Notice how quick the old guys start throwing the " Punk Teen" around, whenever something happens.
Of course, then there's RonIsBS, a person for whom I would cross the street in order to avoid saving his life.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
About 3x a week.
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
None currently, but I used to own one. Drove a couple times a week, until being sideswiped by a truck in NJ. Parking expenses minimal - parked on the street, so occasionally a ticket or meter fees. Maybe $300/year on average.
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
10 minutes, walk a couple blocks.... yeah baby :)
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
Got one about a block away. Small supermarket, but open 24/7.
5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school?
None that I know of :)
6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition?
N/A
7. What are your monthly housing expenses?
My share of the rent: $750 (have 2 roommates)
8. What is your income...individual and household? A general answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific.
$25-30k
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
Gotta mail them things in... thanks for the reminder. Frankly, I don't want to know, just hold my nose and write the check :)
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
A park across the street, but I wouldn't be caught dead there at night (or maybe I would if I ever did...) Central park and RIverside park are both about 1/2 mile away. Never go there, though. If I want to get away from the city, I get away from the city.
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
Uptown manhattan.
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
Availability of stores/restaurants/etc. particularly late at night
Short commute to work
Availability of decently paying jobs (though the cost of living is proportionately higher).
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
High cost of living
Lack of privacy (roommates, other people in the apartment building - good luck having an all-night party or anything like that).
Petty crime - theft, etc.
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
Numero uno, butt out of people's personal decisions and how they choose to live their life. Respecting the rights guaranteed by the 1st, 2nd, and 4th and 6th amendments (among others, those are the first that come to mind).
Every workday - LIRR to Penn Station, then 1/9 subway to Houston Street.
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
Two cars, plus a third that's not currently registered. They're used almost every day. My wife pays about $15/month for parking at her workplace, I hardly ever pay for parking.
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
About 60 miles/2 hours each way.
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
Around a mile.
5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school?
Two. One in public high school, one at SUNY.
6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition?
SUNY's about $8,000 per year, much cheaper than a private college, but offset by the fact that SUNY doesn't offer financial aid.
7. What are your monthly housing expenses?
Typical for the suburban middle class, let's leave it at that.
8. What is your income...individual and household? A general answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific.
Same as question 7.
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
Same as questions 7 and 8.
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
There's a small park about a five-minute walk away, haven't been there in years. We occasionally use the walking trails at a town park about five miles away.
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
Suburbs, almost exurbs.
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
Just about everything you want is a reasonable drive away.
Availability of LIRR service (though with limited service from my town).
Nice break from the hustle and bustle of the city, when I'm home it feels very different.
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
Little within walking distance.
Exhorbitant property taxes.
Nation's highest electric rates.
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
Downsize, and slash taxes!
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Here it is.
People who generally have something useful to say, but often deliver it in a nasty or condescending tone, are a bigger problem. Do I read their stuff, or not?
Thank you. You said exactly what I've been thinking, but expressed it much better than I could have.
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Are you kiddin', man? SubTalk is overwhelmingly a railfan population. Now, I've nothing against railfans (being one myself), but you would have a tough time persuading anybody that this is a "diverse sampling."
I don't know the level of the course you're taking, but if it's anything above entry-level, I'd expect you to lose points for the utter lack of representative sample, if SubTalk is the only population you're polling.
The self-selectedness of the sample is problematic too.
Among other things, SubTalk is your proverbial sausage party :)
Whenever I go to Manhattan, downtown Brooklyn, or certain parts of Queens. So about three or four times a month.
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
There are two cars in my household (one Saturn SL1 and one Lincoln Town Car), and both are used everyday. We don't pay for parking.
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
My commute to Garden City is about 15 minutes to school and 30-40 minutes during rush hour.
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
It depends on which supermarket. It's a two block walk to a grocery store, but we prefer to use the supermarkets about 1-2 miles away in Nassau County or in Laurelton.
5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school?
I still qualify as a child (under 21, living with my parents). My brothers and I went to Catholic school from K-12.
6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition?
My mom started paying Catholic School tuition in the 1970s for about $32/month. Now it's $5250 per year for my brother's Catholic HS.
7. What are your monthly housing expenses?
Too much... :-)
8. What is your income...individual and household? A general answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific.
I don't work anymore, so I don't have any income anymore.
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
I dunno, the last time I paid taxes, NYS took $23, and I didn't care.
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
There's a playground one block away from me that I haven't used for several years. Valley Stream state park is 10 minutes away from me, but we haven't been there in years. OTOH, we go to Jones Beach every summer.
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
What does Cambria Heights qualify as? We have cape cods, a few ranches, tudors, colonials and no real apartment buildings, but we're in Queens and the houses are little smaller and more dense than their Nassau County counterparts. So I'll say dense suburbs...
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
Cambria Heights is quiet, reletively crime-free, and has decent transportation access (near three highwways, three bus lines to Jamaica Centre and one to Flushing, and JFK Airport).
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
So-so public schools, poor LIRR service (I want 1/2 hour off-peak service), and no community/cultural activities.
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
Fix up the public schools, boost LIRR service in Eastern Queens (I'd prefer faster service to Manhattan), and more funding for college tuition.
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
Two cars - $60 per month to park at ferry (LIC - 34th street Ferry)
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
5 miles - 45 min to an hour
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas)
1/4 mile for supermarket / 1 block for grocery store
5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school?
no / N/A
6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition?
N/A
7. What are your monthly housing expenses?
Decline to answer
8. What is your income...individual and household? A general answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific.
Decline to answer
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc
Decline to answer
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
Yes / rarely
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
city
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
museums, theater, shopping
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
nosey neighbors, terrorist fears, commute to work
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
repeal seat belt laws, repeal the property tax increase, lower gas prices
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses? None
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute? About 45 Minutes(School Bus from Kew Gardens to New Rochelle)
4. How far do you have to travel to reach a grocery store? (not counting bodegas) 5 Blocks to C Town on Lefferts Blvd and 6-7 Blocks to Key Food on Queens Blvd
5. Do you have any kids? Do they go to public or private school? I am a Teenager and I go to a Private School call the Hallen School in New Rochelle.
6. If they go to private school, what is the tuition? NYC Board Of Ed pays for it
7. What are your monthly housing expenses? My parents pay that.
8. What is your income...individual and household? A general answer will be fine, there isn't a need to be overly specific. Less then $10,000.00 a year for right now.
9. How much are your taxes? Sales, wage, income, property, etc I have no clue.
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it? Yas and sometime
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs? CITY ALL THE WAY BABY!
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do? Having Transit, No need for a car,and I LOVE NYC BABY!
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do? Can't complain about NYC
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life? Give us people more jobs
About every day
2. How many cars do you own? How often do you use them? What are your parking expenses?
I dont own cars. Public transportation all the way
3. How long (time and distance) is your daily commute?
Home-School: 30 Minutes
School-Job: 45 minutes
Job-Home: 45 minutes
4-9 doesnt aply to me
10. Is there a public park or greenspace near your residence? How often do you use it?
Theres about 3 in the area, and I use none.
11. Do you live in the city or suburbs?
City
12. What are the three best qualities of living where you do?
Hospital near by
Good schools
Penn station in walking distance (granted I live on the east side)
13. What are the three worst qualities of living where you do?
Bad people around my hood
Too many teenagers
SoSo transportation
14. What could the government do to improve your quality of life?
Build a SAS
Your pal,
Fred
One reason why I supported the Iraq war (actually, THE one reason) is that the US can now put bases in Iraq and wouldn't need to have any in Shitty Arabia, the world's prime sponsor of terror. Now if we need to, we can attack the REAL Axis of Evil fairly easily.
No Mike, even Romans had plumbing.
Which is what I was referring to, the Islamic world. What's your point.
"DEFINATELY"Definitely not part of the civilized world.
Peace,
ANDEE
Even rich places like the United States can give birth to terrorists (McVeigh, et. al). I'd like to see a suicide bomber come from Kansas City who used to live in Bayside.
Bravo!
We tend to sometimes think of people with turpins as potential terrorists. The ones with the turpins are safe. Terrorists try to blend in to society so that they can plan their dirty work. They don't want to stand out and have people possibly discover what they are planning.
Saudi Arabia is quite complex. Here is my take. In theory, the crown is in control of the country. The royal family likes our money and tries to look like our friend so we buy their oil. The real power though is in the hands of the religious mullahs and they want the clock turned back a thousand or so years. The mullahs are the one pushing the extremely conservative teachings. They are the ones who are causing many segments of the population to take our oil money and give it to Osama, Hammas and other groups with similar intentions.
Matthew Mummert
Matthew Mummert
Iran, and the fundamentalists in Iraq, are of a different variety.
Wahhabism does require any reason other than not being a Wahhabist for jihad.
It remained a minor sect until the repressive policies of the House of Saud and only achieved promise thirty years ago. The reason Osama (who is an adherant of Wahhabism) was able to build it into a threat is that the bin Laudin wealth (via the House of Saud) provided the massive amounts of money that made Al Queda a threat.
Some terrorist experts believe that capturing or killing bin Laudin might reduce Al Queda to a regional threat only or might dismember it entirely.
A *TRUE* patriot would NEVER withstand erosions of OUR freedoms for the benefit of those who would harm us. What we're doing (and what you speak of) is PRECISELY what the terrorists *WANTED* ... to speak in FAVOR of "clamping down on the American people and our WAY OF LIFE" is only SERVING the terrorists and doing THEIR will instead of OURS. Was this acceptable as public policy during the "Cuban Missile Crisis" or the PINNACLE of where we almost *DID* get nuked? The "Mitchell affair?"
Once again, no offense - but if we INSIST on this silliness, then the prophetic words of Benjamin Franklin are as meaningless as Rush Limbaugh. :(
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
INTERCOURSE AL AQEDA *and* the "current regime" ... we're AMERICANS dammit ... aren't we BETTER than this? :(
I still see nothing wrong with a police officer asking me why I'm walking along the LIRR ROW in my town. If I'm asked why I'm taking pictures, I don't mind answering. I don't view those as abridgements to my personal freedom. I found not being able to take an R train to Brooklyn after 9/11 a major infringement, however. Lets face it, our government has not changed our way of life. It's the lunatic islamic Fundamentalists that we can thank for that.
Let's be REAL here - I know you value "real" which is the ONLY reason I'm posting ... this is ***SO*** off topic for here, but BECAUSE folks are wetting their pants over getting on a TRAIN lately, it's ever so remotely ON topic for here, thus I'll feed this kitty. :(
We're being PHUCKED with here ... I won't peddle the so-called "liberal stance" that the 2000 elections were a LITERAL COUP D'ETAT. But let's be real here - Americans did NOT blow up WTC or the Pentagon - these were "visitors" on the PRECIOUS republican H2 visas here ... the FAILURE was in IMMIGRATION CONTROL and MONITORING and NOT a failure that requires that AMERICANS be punished ... *HAD* the government DONE its job, WE wouldn't be being punished and there'd be no damned NEED for any of this.
I don't see how FURTHER sublimating the American people would correct the flaw. It'd be a LOT more "AMERICAN" to just say "you ain't a citizen, GET OUT" ... THAT would SOLVE the problem aside from PROPERLY manning and maintaining the desks at "Immigration" at the entries of way ...
Am *I* *missing* something here? :(
As to "non-citizens", no one seems to be MORE in favor of illegal immigration that the "party of Lincoln" (can't BELIEVE that Wal*Mart has to go "off the street" for labor for that miraculous $5.25 an hour that they pay) and the "give them drivers licenses" stuff nor the "Mexican truckers" thing ... but I digress. MAYBE they'll vote republican, and the CUBAN vote overrides AL Qaeda ... NO JOKE ... the REASON why AL QAEDA got into the country to BEGIN with is the republican congress' little "H2 visa" trip ... meanwhile HAITIANS get turned away. :-\
SERIOUSLY though ... all TWENTY of the terrorists were on the "do NOT admit" list ... only problem is BUDGET CUTS prevented the INS people who COULD have stopped them by having the DATA let the bastards IN because they didn't SHOW UP on the immigration computers. :(
So we HAD 20 out of 20 ... once again, why are *WE* being punished for the failures of our *****POLITICOS*****?????
Oh PLEASE, call it what it is MALL-WART 8=)
Peace,
ABDEE
That's your opinion, but I certainly wouldn't agree.
This story in Time will probably anger you. Homeland security is becoming just another pork barrel.
We can go to ultimate security where anyone who isn't where they're supposed to be can be subject to arrest or at least questioning. "Isn't where they're supposed to be" is rather broad, but that's what it will come to IMO.
Look at what's happened since 9/11
The U.S. is more a house divided than in almost any time in history.
The U.S. is engaged in 2 costly wars that could potentially bankrupt us. Fighting terrorism is war without end. Ask Israel.
We are ready to tank the Constitution for perceived security and lock ourselves in some safe haven, rather than live our lives as a free society.
If this is what Al Qaida planned with their attack (other than the Iraq war) then they acted with sheer genius. If not, they've been handed the luckiest tactical hand of cards in recent history.
So what can we do?
A. Stop underestimating the enemy. They are clever, move quickly and are decentralized enough so that there is no 'dragon's head' to cut off and defeat them. Stop thinking that they are simply envious of us or that they simply want to kill anyone non-Islamic.
B. Make public any and all information regarding who was asleep at that switch before 9/11. This is clearly not going to be easy and heads will roll, but it will have a cleansing effect on our intelligence agencies. Or not, if this was indeed a classic case of corruption.
C. Lose, once and for all, this concept of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. That's a foolish and weak strategy and ensures later betrayal and tactical problems in the future. Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega...
D. Saudi Arabia is not our ally. Nuff said.
E. Patch up as quickly as possible the diplomatic damage done to our alliances before the Iraq war. The clumsy and arguably childish tactics the U.S. engaged in to bring war to Iraq have done considerably more harm than good and gave terrorism another victory. All countries need to be united against terrorism and we need to restore credibility to our foreign policy. ('Freedom Fries' - give_me_a_friggin_break).
F. Military options work best when performed in tandem with adroit diplomacy. If you don't believe this, then ask yourself how far you are willing to go militarily to end terrorism? Do you feel that it may require more intense warfare, perhaps a Final Solution?
G. Make a concerted effort to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian war. This is a US led UN project; we've been unsuccesful going solo on this and it seems to me that it's not treated as very important to anyone in office right now.
I. Take away this six pack of IPA; I gotta get off this soapbox!
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
While I despise Sharon for FANNING the flames of terrorism, there's ONE thing I AGREE with ... IF you're going to make war, we'll SHOW you that not only isn't it worth it, but the PRICE of it is TOO damned high. This is the ONLY reason why we survived the "cold war" ... and it's DAMNED well good time to say "you can live with us in peace and cooperation, otherwise we'll take you out. COMPLETELY."
The ONLY solution to terrorists is a GUARANTEE that they can be outdone. During the "cold war" the CONSEQUENCES were *SO* extreme that nobody DARED to be stupid ... now these bastards have CARTE BLANCHE. Call me a "liberal" if you will, but the ONLY solution is OVERWHELMING "Oh yeah?" ... and OUR leaders have no balls. They'd rather do the WILL of the terrorists by taking *US* out than doing the REAL enemy and PROPERLY funding the necessity. WHERE IT MATTERS. :(
Okay, I'm easy. Nuke em.
The lunatics in power make the TALIBAN look reasonable. :(
I guess the policy should be changed to read Any state that harbors or gives support to a terrorist that strikes the US or a US interest will pay the ultimate price as long as doing so will not cause any hardship to the American people or as long as the country in question cannot put up any real resistance, ala Afghanistan & Iraq!
Afghanistan as a target was a correct choice. Not because of its ability to resist but its direct link to the 9/11 terrorists. Would Saudi Arabia have made a better second target than iraq did? Perhaps yes but look at the fallout. Going after Saddam gave Khadafi pause and he changed his position. He saw the insanity of being an enemy of this nation. However, if we flattened Saudi arabia, presumably an allie of ours, than how would Khadafi have felt more secure in moving in our direction. Might he have thought that even as an 'allie', he might too be attacked? Besides, one more major attack on US soil and I think Saudi Arabia will taste out ire, too.
Your pal,
Fred
Afghanistan, as a target, was a correct choice. Not because of its ability to resist but its direct link to the 9/11 terrorists. Would Saudi Arabia have made a better second target than iraq did? Perhaps yes but look at the fallout. Going after Saddam gave Khadafi pause and he changed his position. He saw the insanity of being an enemy of this nation. However, if we flattened Saudi arabia, presumably an allie of ours, than how would Khadafi have felt more secure in moving in our direction. Might he have thought that even as an 'allie', he might too be attacked? Besides, one more major attack on US soil and I think Saudi Arabia will taste out ire, too.
Afghanistan as a target was a correct choice. Not because of its ability to resist but its direct link to the 9/11 terrorists. Would Saudi Arabia have made a better second target than iraq did? Perhaps yes but look at the fallout. Going after Saddam gave Khadafi pause and he changed his position. He saw the insanity of being an enemy of this nation. However, if we flattened Saudi arabia, presumably an allie of ours, than how would Khadafi have felt more secure in moving in our direction. Might he have thought that even as an 'allie', he might too be attacked? Besides, one more major attack on US soil and I think Saudi Arabia will taste out ire, too.
Afghanistan, as a target, was a correct choice. Not because of its ability to resist but its direct link to the 9/11 terrorists. Would Saudi Arabia have made a better second target than iraq did? Perhaps yes but look at the fallout. Going after Saddam gave Khadafi pause and he changed his position. He saw the insanity of being an enemy of this nation. However, if we flattened Saudi arabia, presumably an allie of ours, than how would Khadafi have felt more secure in moving in our direction. Might he have thought that even as an 'allie', he might too be attacked? Besides, one more major attack on US soil and I think Saudi Arabia will taste out ire, too.
I think both Russia, China and France have enough nuclear weapons to make attacking them not in our best interest.
Moreover, look how we have been treating that total scumbag in North Korea with the kit gloves because if we make the slightest move against him he'll destroy both Soeul and Tokyo. Despite that Kim whatever his name being about 100 times the threat of Saddam, we feel we can negioate with him. The facts speak for themselves, this administration only enters fights it can win in a politically positve way.
Also, Iraq did not have any cohereant policy of terror support. Al Queda's fundamentalist stance was a grave threat to Saddam's secular regime. In fact, the best thing we could have done to suppress terrorism in Iraq was to keep Saddam in power.
All this so called "policy" has done is expose the regime in Washington for the double dealing hypocrites they are.
If you are an honest debater you will provide us with a legitimate source for that statement.
What is with you and this arguement here. Were not you railing on about your tax burden like 5 threads ago? Why do you want to cut social services for your fellow Americans, yet liberally dole them out to people who hate our fucking guts??
You know it's musheads like yourself that has allowed the Bush regime to subjugate this country. First they hook you in with the Republican greed and it's promices to screw all of "those people" who are making your life so darned miserable. Next, then they themselves become the ones giving it to you up the ass they distract you with patriotic paranoia. You need to open your eyes man, turn off the AM radio and open a book or something.
Yes, I want my taxes cut. I want to eliminate government waste in welfare, medicare and SSI fraud. Do you think this is a wrong-minded goal? The problem with you is that you only see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe. I don't believe in saving the iraqis. I've said many times that that it would not bother me if we took that entire region of the world and melted it and then paved it over. I don't want another one of my tax dollars to go to save anyone in that region. The current administration is wrong to confuse regiem change with some obscure moral obligation to save the iraquis. A pox on all of them. Saddam's gone, let's move on.
My point is why search the couch for spare change when your stack of 20's is blowing out the window. Shut the window first then spend your time picking up the change. In fact, compared to the stack of 20's you just saved the change might not even be worth your while anymore.
Every argument you pose must be an all or nothing proposition.
Why don't you be more specific? I don't feel I have done any such thing.
Yes, I want my taxes cut. I want to eliminate government waste in welfare, medicare and SSI fraud. Do you think this is a wrong-minded goal?
At this point in time, yes I do. You are re-arranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship and you should refactor your priorities. Moreover I think you have horribly simplified the problem at hand. "Eliminate Fraud" is a trojan term that trickes people into supporting an issue before they get socked with the details. How much fraud do you think there actually is? How much will it cost to fight this fraud? How many legitimate users of a service are you willing to screw to eliminate this fraud? Your Republican rethoretic in no way answers these hard questions.
I don't want another one of my tax dollars to go to save anyone in that region. The current administration is wrong to confuse regiem change with some obscure moral obligation to save the iraquis. A pox on all of them. Saddam's gone, let's move on.
It seems that you need another history lesson. Will you agree that we should be fighting terrorism? As was evident from Afghanistan, Sudan and Somolia, ignoreing the problems does not cause them to go away, in fact it makes them much worse. When we left the Afghans in a lurch after the fall of communism the Taliban came to power. When we failed to support the Shah the Allatolah came to power. Saddam was not a terrorist threat to this country. He cared more about himself than he did getting back at us. He knew if he ever tried anything that we would invade in a nannoseccond. Terrorists were a threat to his regime therefore keeping him in power helped safeguard the US against Iraqi based terrorists. However, since we made the decision to remove him, simply leaving Iraq in a lurch will only create another Afghanistan. A theocratic terrorist haven. Frankly, I don't think we can prevent such a thing from happening even with our assistance, but that is neither here nor there. Fighting terror (or communism) is not a simple matter of killing a few people or dropping some bombs. It takes effort and resources directed in a careful and intelligent fashion. And keep in mind that starving people who have embraced religious fervor have little fear of bombs or missiles.
What I want you to do is to hold this administration responsible for it's ineptitude, get mad and refuse to take it any more.
I don't need to hold this administration responsible for anything. If you do, then you get your chance in November. Just remember that it was the Clinton administration that missed the free shots at bin Laden after he had declared war on the US. He was too busy having the presidential knob polished and with most of the blood not reaching his head, he was unable to think straight. Now if you want to vote for Kerry, do so. He's easier to agree with since he's on both sides of every issue.
Finally if you think that eliminating fraud in any gov't program is wrong then shame on you.
You must live in a very unusual jurisdiction if the greatest portion of your property taxes doesn't go for the local school system.
And when you retire, would you really honestly prefer to have lower taxes and pay all your own medical bills, no matter how high or low, yourself? If you are lucky you'll save a bundle; if you're unlucky you'll have to sell your home to pay your medical bills.
Medicare is really much more of an insurance program (the lucky healthy folks subsidize the unlucky unhealthy ones) than an entitlement program.
When I talk about medicare amd medicade, I'm not talking about the ones who need it. i'm talking about those who frequent mills to get free prescriptions that they turn around and sell. I'm talking about other scams that people like me pay for. Anyone who doesn't think there are welfare scams, medicare scams and SSI scams either has their head in the sand or between their butt cheeks.
There are welfare scams. There are also scams in user-fee-supported public agencies like NYCT and the MTA. There are also scams in private companies - a big company like Verizon or Con Ed is always finding someone's hand in the till.
A reasonable amount of diligence is always critical, or else the scammers run wild. But if you think that reducing fraud in any of the above can significantly cut your taxes, user fees, or utility bills, I think you are very mistaken.
We're ready to scrap what makes this country great due to extreme national paranoia.
It's because America was too used to winning its wars. Until 2001, every war in which this ocuntry had fought ended as an American victory. True, the outcome of Vietnam was questionable, but we can take solace in the fact that we inflicted far more deaths on the enemy than we suffered in return. But then comes 9/11, one of the most crushing defeats in world history, and the nation goes psycho. We strike out blindly at our own people, rapidly becoming a police state in the process, yet do nothing to the real enemy except a pathetically feeble "attack" on Afghanistan.
The most efficient place to erect security barriers is at the border. Moreover, we need to activly go after the real causes of terrorism like Shitty Arabia and religious fundamentalism in ALL it's forms. If I had the choice b/t building a wall and giving the desperate populations a reason not to go blow themselves up I'd pick the latter.
Palestinians employed in ISRAEL *HAD* a chance for a brighter future, and economic independence and PROSPERITY. INSTEAD, the morons LITERALLY blew all that up. :(
*ZERO* sympathy for them ... they *HAD* a chance, they LITERALLY BLEW it. *IF* "Islam" wants to live in the era of the "crusades" (a moral BLOWOUT for us "Christians" as a BAD example of "imperialism") then if THIS is the way the religion plans to manifest itself to the rest fo the world (I've READ the Quran) then those INFIDELS who blaspheme Mohammed by these acts DESERVE to be melted into glass, exterminated like cockroaches. :(
I *KNOW* Islam ... the NONSENSE ongoing is anything *BUT* the faith. If THESE are the "martyrs" like Catholics before the lions, then they DESERVE to have their "Stomachs roasted in hell." :(
"Trying to secure the rail, bus, ferry, w/e else systems is a pointless waste of money. It can't be done."
It depends on the price, in terms of money, time, and loss of freedom.
I think some proposals for increasing safety are worth the price, and others are not. Other people's opinions disagree with mine. As long as we can have a national debate on which price is worth paying and which is not, we'll be OK. Unfortuntely, a few people, some with considerable influence, aren't open to a debate on the topic.
The rest of my post is not "silly", it directly addresses your point. Totally securing the subway, which is not possible anyway, will only prevent deaths in subway related attacks, it will not generally prevent deaths due to terrorism.
While there is a level of security that does make sense, trying to make a transit system proof against the likes of suicide bombers is a fools errand. Nobody spends more on security than Isreal and look how they have been able to prevent bus bombings.
So after everyone is driven from the subway due to the 20 minutes background interview and bag search what exactly would you be saving? The lives of people now blown up on buses or the subway infrastructure that is now sitting there unutilized?
I think the ultimate solution is for us to take the war to them and make the consequences of their actions so horrific that no nation will think of giving terrorists a safe haven.
Have you ever considered what would happen if a nation's "terrorist" stance reflected the popular will of it's people, possibly due to the policies and actions of the United States? Hmmm, I think a case study is in order. Did dropping more bombs on North Vietnam than were dropped on Germany in WW2 cause the North Vietnamise to abandon their terrorist insurgency of the south?
What do you think it is about this country that the Islamc Fundamentalist lunatic fringe don't like? Our movies and other images of our culture that find their way into their lands and 'corrupt' their culture. They will tollerate nothing but stict Islamic fundimentalism.
As for your subway scenerio, I'm not suggesting El Al style security for the subways because it would be impracticla at best but does that mean that you don't employ technology that will work? Does it mean that if you can't protect against every eventuality you protect against none?
I've deliberately ignored your injection of North Korea into the argument because korea is a smoke screen. Korea has not yet become a terrorist threat to this nation. The issues are different. The mind-set is different and the solution must also be different.
Let me give you an analogy. Suppose you have a rural courthouse. You'd like to keep weapons out of the courthouse, but have no metal detectors, one at each of the two entrances to the courthouse.
The county says they can only afford one metal detector, but both entrances MUST be kept open for both entry and exit (fire codes or whatever).
You reason, Well, having a metal detector at one entrance is better than having none at all, since this way at least you screen half the people coming in.
Does this work?
True, you might catch a couple retards who carry a piece through the detector and get caught, and the few people who look particularly suspicious might be taken aside and made to walk through the magnetometer, but the simple fact is anyone with an IQ greater than their age who wants to carry a weapon in will simply use the entrance that has no metal detector, and be as inconspicuous as possible while doing it. Simply put, twice the number of weapons will pass through the unsecured entrance, leading to the net same number of weapons smuggled into the courthouse.
To come back to the real situation: Suppose you screen all passengers and packages boarding every Amtrak train. Then they'll just go after the unsecured LIRR and NJT trains at Penn Station. And last I checked, rush hour commuter rail trains generally are much more densely packed than any Amtrak train ever is, so they're better targets in general for Osama's maximum death and devastation MO.
And suppose you bite the bullet and screen all passengers entering commuter rail trains at Penn Station. Who's to stop someone from getting on at one of these little bus stop suburban stations, most of which are at or near street level with little isolation from the surrounding area, so anybody with half a brain could sneak by the security checkpoint (if you can even afford to put a checkpoint at each of the hundred or more commuter rail stations in the metro area.) And even if you did that, what about someone getting on the Lex at some dinky station in the Bronx, riding it down to GCT and blowing up his backpack then?
All you do by adding security (screening passengers, etc.) is cause the terrorists to ply their wares elsewhere - it doesn't cut down the total number of incidents at all, except in the rare case that you get lucky when dealing with a retard (i.e. the shoe bomber, moussaoui and the chicago dirty bomber, all of whom seem to be a few cans short of a sixpack...)
The real way to stop them is to stop these attacks in the planning stage, and this depends on intelligence and surveillance.
The only way to stop them altogether is to convince the potential terrorists that the risks are too great and the benefits too small for them to try anything. Osama managed, through 9/11, to get himself on the sh*t list of every country in the world, sparked two major US-led wars, and singularly shifted the focus of the world's foreign policy. Bush abandoned his "hands-off" Mideast policy altogether in favor of a strongly pro-Israel, pro-democratization foreign policy, exactly what Osama doesn't want. That, I believe, is why al-Qaeda has not repeated 9/11, at least in the US, because they know a repeat of 9/11 will cause them to reap the whirlwind - possibly next time we'll nuke their asses, particularly if they resort to biochem weapons. Other countries haven't fared so well - the Bali bombing, the Madrid bombing, the Saudi bombing, etc.
Another way to look at the problem:
If a terrorist gets into the country and gets his hands on explosives, he can kill a dozen or two people. The situations in Israel, Iraq, and Spain prove that.
Therefore the main efforts should concentrate on:
- Minimizing the number who get in.
- Keeping them from getting access to explosives.
- And the overarching goal should be: keep them from bringing something really major in, like a nuclear device. 90% of the anti-terrorism effort should be going to that, because only a nuclear device can do anywhere near as much damage to this country as we do to ourselves each year with automobiles.
Yeah, maybe you can keep military grade C-4 out of the hands of ordinary civilians, but how do you keep them from making ANFO? Or any of a number of hydrocarbon- or petroleum-based explosive mixes?
It seems that about the only thing that could be done is ban the sale of petroleum and hydrocarbon products, bleach, fertilizer, ammonia, saltpeter, powderized aluminum, magnesium, and a laundry list of other things to anyone named Muhammad, Ahmed, or Mustafa, or who comes into the store with a beard or a turban. I don't think anybody is going to argue that position. And it wouldn't stop a Tim McVeigh, or a WASP designee making the buy for Mohammad, Ahmed or Mustafa.
And there should be pretty strict checking up on people who want to buy a ton of anything dangerous.
I agree with you that it's not possible to prevent small scale terrorism once they get into the country. But 30 pounds of fertilizer here or there, while terrible for the victims, is chicken feed compared to what we do to ourselves with cars. That's why I think 90% of the effort ought to be aimed toward nuclear devices.
Arti
Like 1960 was like ancient times, man! How did people live back then? Did they ride dinosaurs?
Roll signs were around for nearly 50 years in 1960.
CD ... there's some rollsigns to play with and look through here:
http://www.subwayspot.com/rollsigns
In order to operate the crank which turned the roll sign, the operator would emerge from his cab, loosen a latch to swing out the advertising panel (which was hinged at the top), and reach in to change the sign.
-- Ed Sachs
This is interesting for a few reasons.
"Voters should remember why the high-speed rail initiative was placed on the 2000 ballot, where it was approved by 53 percent of the voters: For nearly a decade, the Florida Legislature ignored its own statute that mandated a highspeed-rail system. The Florida High-Speed Rail Transportation Act of 1992 was still on the books when the amendment was passed.
"The Legislature never repealed it," said C.C. "Doc" Dockery, a Lakeland businessman who served on a commission that resulted in the 1992 act. "The Legislature just didn't fund it. They hoped it would go away.""
And the other thing I hear, Gallagher is apparently ciculating the petitions in random offices like insurance companies to random people. How sleazy.
You don't get a do-over a third around. And let me also say, traffic is worse than it was in 2000 now. Even with 1.4 billion dollars in construction later to that stinky highway.
And you know what's hilarious, the new presidents highway spending bill(which includes transit).
$100,000,000,000 less than the minimum acceptable level, and now Florida will get back 76cents for every 1 we contribute. Yea, our priorities really need to vote on this a 3rd time.
David Gunn will be the guest on WTOP Radio (Washington, DC)'s Sprawl & Crawl Program on April 14 at 10 AM EDT. This will be a chance for you to submit any question you would like to ask him. You can call (it is toll free) or e-mail from wtopnews.com. If you are in the DC area, you can listen the day of the snow on any one of WTOP's three signals (1500 AM, 820 AM, or 107.7 FM) or if you are anywhere in the world, listen on wtopnews.com. They also post the show on their website to be listened to later if you can not listen at air time.
I will post another reminder closer to the date.
I will post another reminder in a few days if I remember to do so.
"When it comes to trains of any type merging in one station, Tokyo's Shinjuku is the undisputed world champion with eleven (11) lines by 6 different companies merging/crossing/overpassing/tunneling into/over/under/through one massive building, and over 2 million passengers daily. Alas, only three of the lines are subways."
And according to Japan Guide:
"Shinjuku Station handles over 4 million passengers per day, and is Japan's busiest railway station. Lines of the Japan Railways, the two subway companies and three more private railway companies pass through or start at Shinjuku Station. "
I don't know how the 2 or 4 million passengers daily are counted, but I doubt if they are turnstile counts. That would be about ten times as many as Times Square and Grand Central subway complexes combined.
Breakdown of 4 million+.
JR (4 subway like commuter lines + 1 outer surburb bound line + long distance trains)
2,620,323
Municipal Subway (2 lines)
213,646
Tokyo Metro Subway (1 line)
330,060
Odakyu (private)
511,114
Keio (private)
682,954
Seibu (private)
205,781
Thanks very much for that breakdown, Wado. Those ridership numbers are really amazing, especially for the JR.
I have been looking at the map at http://www.tokyometro.go.jp/network/pdf/map_english.pdf and I am surprised that the busiest station complex is on the edge of the inner city.
One of those busy JR lines must be the Yamanote line, which encircles the central city stopping at all big stations.
The municpial subways must be TOEI lines 10 (Shinjuku) and 12 (O-Edo), and the metro must be TRTA line 4 (Marunuchi).
I would be interested to know of any more Tokyo ridership data that may be readily available.
No surprise there... They moved Tokyo's city hall there at some point in the 90s and they planned to do so in the 80s. King's X and Victoria combined, anyone? Think of the above surface JR lines as the sub-surface+ex-BR network in London and the former TRTA lines as the deep tubes lines. The financial district has never moved though and probably never will.
The Yamanote line is as about the Circle line in London or Manhattan, size wise.
Being the world's most populated urban agglomeration, with 32 million inhabitants or so, you might expect it to have the busiest subway system, but in fact it ranks only second. In 1997 Tokyo's subway had 2.7 billion annual riders compared with Moscow's 3.2 billion. [New York's subway and elevated ridership peaked in 1947 with over 2 billion, and is currently fifth with 1.4 billion.]
More impressive is the ridership of the Tokyo commuter rail network, estimated at 10.6 billion annually. Source: The Public Purpose. That's about 29 million per average day, not far from one ride per person per day. Even more remarkably, the commuter rail lines are profitable, receiving neither capital nor operating subsidies.
Tokyo's central business district, broadly defined as the area surrounded by the Yamanote Loop line, has 4.2 million jobs, and the core CBD has 2.4 million jobs, the world's highest. The Yamanote Loop line itself is operated by the East Japan Railway Company, which is Tokyo's largest commuter rail company, and formerly a part of Japanese National Railways.
According to a paper prepared by the New York Citizens Budget Commission:
"The British Rail commuter lines serve London with multiple stops on lines parallel or connecting to the Underground; Tokyo’s JR system connects outlying areas to multiple, central city stations; Paris’ RER collects suburban passengers and makes numerous stops in the central city at points that connect to Metro lines without additional charge. These hybrid systems are a major draw for suburban commuters and help explain the relatively high occupancy of both commuter and rapid rail systems"
"Tokyo’s commuter system carries more than 20 times as many passengers as New York’s; London’s commuter system nearly five times as many, and Paris’ system more than twice as many. When the separate hybrid systems in Tokyo and Paris are added to the mix, the entire rail system in Tokyo carries about eight times as many passengers as in New York; and both London’s and Paris’ rail system handles substantially more passengers than does New York’s."
That's huge! How big is that area?
The entire Manhattan CBD, including Midtown, Midtown South, and Downtown was just 1.8 million in 1990, perhaps 2.0 million at the 2000 peak, less than half the size. Needless to say, nothing else in the U.S. and Canada is anywhere close to that.
For comparison, Manhattan Island has an area of 22.7 square miles.
It takes just over one hour to travel the entire length of the loop line.
There isn't really just one CBD but a whole string of them round the Yamanote loop.
The Core CBD is the old financial center, centered around Tokyo station, on the harbor side of the loop.
According to Business Center:
"Nearly 2.3 million commuters arrive each working day in the three central wards of Tokyo that correspond to the Central Business district and its fringes. This is the largest flow of people in the world, and what adds to the importance of the Tokyo CBD is the fact that it is a place of employment, shopping and many other activities, its geographical extent and high population density. The center of the CBD, symbolically and geographically is the Tokyo Station. The CBD sits strategically between the Marunochi office district (developed by Mitsubishi 100 years ago) and the retailing core of the city where large stores are located. The station brings in the heavy flow of commuters, with the bullet trains bringing in influx of people from other parts of the country into the capital. In proximity is the Tokyo Stock exchange and the Imperial palace. "
Shinjuku is a newer CBD, on the inland side of the loop, and Shinjuku is home to the Tokyo Metropolitan Government Office.
According to one source there are really nine Central Business Districts!
Not all of them are profitable, especially the recently opened ones. Saitama Railway is said to be losing close to 9 billion yens annualy. They've just hired a new guy to run the company but it is unlikely to make any profits anytime soon. The line is also known for its expensive fare and its useless terminus which is in the middle of nowhere with only a soccer stadium built for World Cup 2002 nearby (still 1.2km away). The line has through service to the Namboku Subway line in Tokyo. To add more insult, the Namboku line was built to serve underserved parts of central Tokyo, which means it doesn't go through most of the CBDs! Saitama Railway's birth had more to do with the relations between the local politicians and construction companies than the actual demand.
My source for that statement was "The Public Purpose", and they may have their own agenda. According to another source, the Tokyo-Teito Rapid Transit Authority (TRTA) made an operating surplus in 2000, as did the following commuter lines:
• Keihin Electric Express Railway Co., Ltd.
• Keio Electric Railway Co., Ltd.
• Keisei Electric Railway Co., Ltd.
• Odakyu Electric Railway Co., Ltd.
• Seibu Railway Co., Ltd.
• Tobu Railway Co., Ltd.
• Tokyu Corporation.
The three private-sector successors to JNR on Honshu – JR-East, JR-Central, and JR-West – also reported operating profits.
All of these companies, except maybe for Tokyu, also own lines that don't make profit by themselves.
Source: japan-guide.com.
I suppose the six-door trailer cars have less seating space, but overcrowding and dwell times should be improved.
I saw a photo of a train with bench seats that are folded up in rush hours, so everybody must stand up.
That's the six-door trailer. BTW, I need to correct my last post. It seems that some 205s are still running there. So I should have said "are being replaced". The 205s have only one six-door trailer while the newer E231-500 have two.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
From now on I'm going to do complex differential equations with krylon on subway tunnel walls.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
You should do that. Give Ben a headstart in Calculus. He can learn discs, washers and maybe even shells...
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
You rarely see tagging by forty-somethings. The cops rearely catch anyone over 25 tagging a building, carving blackboard borders, writing
"charlie f***sharon" in marker on the back of a bus seat, or any destruction of property. (No counts of alcohol fueled bar wrecking have been counted as it's usually drunk and disorderly.
The Vandals, BTW, were a Germanic tribe that delighted in trashing after invading in the Dark Ages.
BTW, Ben, For a 12 year old, you write very in a very mature style. Anyone reading your posts without knowing your age would be very surprised.
Our Treasurer at the Baltimore Streetcar Musuem started as an active member when he was just 13. He's now 32.
Most of the "artists" who started New York's subway graffiti epidemic in the early 1970's must be well into their forties today. Some, in fact, must be over 50. I wonder if any of them ever have pangs of nostalgia for their younger days ... and still keep a few cans of spray paint, just in case.
If it were an R143 or an R160 --THEN-- I'd feel obliged to care.
(Not a R142/a/s fan).
Yes, but I care. The R142A is my favorite car in the system.
Well of course, we all have our opinions, brah (The "brah" thing finally kicked in). :)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
This is an assumption. How do you know that these people do bad in school? Do you know them?
My store is on my website, and can be viewed by clicking the photo:
Many thanks to those who ultimately decide to buy something!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Koi
THE 6 TRAIN IS GOING TO UTICA AVE UNTIL AT LEAST 11 PM TOMMORROW NIGHT.
Here is the PROFF.
2 additional photos are in this album regarding the Fulton/B'way Nassau passageway closure, one is a duplicate.
If only every CR was like him...
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
F__K SCUM AL-QAEDA. I HOPE IT ROTS ITS A__ IN H__L. It should get what his BAD A__ DESERVES FOR ALL ITS BAD A__ HEARTLESS DEADLY BOMBING AND ITS CHANCE OF POTENTIALLY (according to Windsor Terrace Economist) STEALING OUR SUMMER RAILFANNING.
I feel better now that I have completely ventilated my frustrations.
Note: Steve, I was not trying to flame you at all. I was just angry even thinking about Al-Qaeda. Personally, because of the rumors that Al-Qaeda will bomb NYC Subway trains, I hope--no--I PRAY that you are one of the lucky people that stay alive, considering that you are a TA employee and your life may be in jeopardy. I also pray everyone else stays alive. But although I was not flaming you at all, I still hope Al-Qaeda rots in H__L.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
Note: PLEASE DO NOT REPLY.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Add the fact that one of the actors appears inside a car window
(with "EXIT ->" and "Transfer" signage in his background)..
This post does -NOT- mention the Olsen Twins.
This post HAS to do with Trains.
http://www.cygnals.com/zine/complete/subway.htm
http://www.uer.ca/locations/viewgal.asp?picid=14542
You can even see in this last photo what appears to be where the "Queens" sign was in the trailer!
Hope this helps!
******************************************************************
But the normal corridor trains often run quite Empty to boston. Still, the $99 ticket price is probably the big motovator.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#WiFi
******************************************************************
Compared to their normal activities of strikes and larking about :-) Just kidding, they do a good job...a goood joooob.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#Beech
******************************************************************
My eyes are still rolling after that TEA-21 thing.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#House
******************************************************************
Take that terrorists!! Tom ridge is going to have a meeting...and they are going to, um, TAKE NOTES, and there will be big huge...PowerPoint presentations and someone might make, um, Decisions!! Yeah!!
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#Homeland
******************************************************************
If all this harglebargle and foofaraah results in me not being able to carry nail clippers onto Amtrak trains I am going to be pissed off as hell.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#Rail
******************************************************************
Can someone please explain why depreciation is tax deductable in the first place? I mean when you make a capital expendature that money isn't taxed...why then can corporations take the money off again? In isolated circumstances it could help organizations that are worthwhile, but overall it's just a scam that needs to be eliminated in its entirety.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#Transit
I'm not a tax expert or an accountant, but I think that the deduction, generally speaking, encourages investment.
In a perfect world, the tax revenue gained by this bill would be given to transit systems.
Your pal,
Fred
I see what you're saying, that spending $$ just to create a deduction is inefficient. For the most part it is; if I were to buy 200 widgets that I really don't need but can depreciate/deduct them for the next five years, that would be lousy business.
But if it's something I could use and make money with AND deduct, then I'm making a sound decision and the depreciation/deduction sweetens the pot.
There's another train of thought - Better to support another business than to pay tax. I've heard that one often.
I think the train leasing is just a back door way for transit systems to raise the funding they're not getting from tax revenue. Again, in a perfect world, the increased tax revenue would be delivered to transit after closing the loophole. In the real world, it won't, so this new bill is yet another anti-transit move IMO.
Your pal,
Fred
I guess if the Transit Agencies were chem plants or refineries, they would be getting more tax cuts and lesser regulations instead of trying to have the loophole closed!
******************************************************************
Ugh, everybody getting this lo-floor crap.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#Charlotte
******************************************************************
I hope this isn't a duplicate post, but I don't remember it here.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#Metra
Warning: Do not set your clocks ahead on computers, VCRs, TVs and other electronic equip, that automatically compensate for DST.
Your pal,
Fred
77 counties including the capital of Indianapolis are in the Eastern time zone but do not change to Daylight Savings time.
Ten counties in the NW and SW corners of the state use Central Standard and Daylight Saving Time
Five counties near Cincinatti and Louisville, Ky use EST & DST
That means that when driving across the southern part of Indiana, one would need to reset his watch 5 times during the trip.
You *are* aware, are you not, that it was the *RAILROADS* who invented the time zones in the first place. Before that every town had a sundial, and decided for itself what time it was.
All of a sudden, if you wanted to catch a train (or to run a railroad by timetable and Standard Time) you had to observe the time zones that the railroads established.
Now could you imagine the IRT and the BRT having their own Standard Clocks, and then Red Hylan inventing a third since he would have nothing to do with theirs~!
: ) Elias
Your pal,
Fred
1 metric hour = 2:24:00.000
1 metric minute = 0:01:26.400
1 metric second = 0:00:00.864
1 old hour = 0:41:66.667
1 old minute = 0:00:69.444
1 old second = 0:00:01.157
An academic day would no longer be 0930GMT - 1730GMT; it would become 0396 - 0729. It would be a strange world, albeit a really cool one.
Whenever you try to express 1/3, or some fraction of it as a decimal, you have recurring decimals.
The point about 24 is that you can divide it into halves, thirds, quarters, sixths and twelfths without having to use fractions (or recurring decimals).
Besides, if everybody used UTC, 4 PM would be 16:00, and midnight would be 00:00.
The US Military (on www.nasro.org) state:
"All U.S. military services and law enforcement tell time by using the numbers “1” to “24” for the 24 hours in a day. A day begins at one minute after midnight and ends at midnight the same day. The day begins at one minute after midnight (0001) and ends at midnight the same day (2400). The hours from 1:00 a.m. until noon are numbered in four digits (“0100” to “1200”). The hours from 1:00 p.m. until midnight are derived by adding twelve hours to the civilian time (for example, 3:00 p.m. = 1200 + 300 = 1500 hours)."
Let’s use some seconds and fractions:
23:59:59.99 is the previous day
00:00:00.01 is the next day which doesn’t begin at 0001!
Of course, here in the US, the idea of the 24 hour clock is foreign, hence the usage of “civilian time” and “military time”. I am the only person I know who sets all timepieces under my control that support the choice to use the 24-hour clock.
-Todd Glickman, for CBS News, New York (Above final two sentences are a direct quote from a report I did for the CBS Radio Network yesterday morning. I combined a day of rail fanning (my first chance post-Feb 22) with a bit of work at WCBS. Then zipped north for Seashore's Instructor Requalification Day today... and had the pleasure of moving our #800 R4A.)
It's interesting how the further north you go, the more extreme the times of sunsets and sunrises. NYC is slightly south of 41 degrees north latitude. I went to college near Rochester, slightly north of 43 degrees north. There's 69 miles between each latitude and longitude line, so it was a mere 138 miles due north. But in December it would be fully dark by 4:30. In June it will still be fully light after 8:30.
Ten years ago, we went to Seattle, which is between the 47th and 48th north parallel, in mid-late June- right when the days are at their longest. (We happened to be at a restaurant in the old World's Fair grounds by the Space Needle when the infamous O.J. Simpson Bronco chase aired.) We were hanging out at Gasworks Park on a nice Sunday evening with the sun still fully out. My wife asked me what time it was. I looked at my watch and said "Twenty after nine." "Quit kidding- what time is it, really?" "Twenty after nine."
Conversely, I went to London in December '88. Unable to sleep on a redeye, I went to sleep (disregarding all advice) as soon as I checked into my hotel on Russell Square at 2:00 in the afternoon. When I awoke, it was pitch black out and the clock read 4:00. Figuring I slept for fourteen hours and it was 4 AM, I looked out the window and was quite confused to see mobs of people dressed for business walking towards the Saint Pancras and Kings Crossing British Rail stations nearby. London is yet further north, between the 51st and 52nd north parallels. The next morning it wasn't fully light till 9:00.
Not Metra, but a different railroad (Northern Indiana CTD)
The rate is 4 minutes per degree longitude, going by sun transit (mid-day) times.
BZZZZZZT! No matter what, you're not going to need to change more than once. In the summer, EST and CDT are the same time (UTC-5 - UTC being the proper term for what used to be Greenwich Mean Time).
EDT = UTC-4
EST and CDT = UTC-5
CST = UTC-6
In the winter, the NW and SW corners of Indiana are UTC-6 and everywhere else is UTC-5. Illinois is UTC-6 and Ohio (and Michigan) is UTC-5. One time change as you move across the state.
In the summer, the entire state is UTC-5 except the SE corner is UTC-4. Illinois is UTC-5 and Ohio is UTC-4. Again, one time change as you move across the state.
Sterns County (among others), to be precise. But there the monks of St. Meinrad Archabbey rule the time (them having the clock towers with the bells that ring out the hours day and night, and them also being the biggest employer in the county). Physically, the monastery is on the *west* side of the Anderson Creek (The dividing line for the time zone is *in* the creek), but they own property on *both* sides of the creek.
They leave their clocks set to "Eastern Standard Time" (And ignore the fact that *they* *are* in the "Central Time Zone"). So in the Summer they match with "Chicago Time" and in the winter they match with "New York" time, and all year round they confuse the geese who try to call them on the telephone.
Elias
Don't they have Daylight in Arizona ?
But next time the eagle qwappeth, those who worked the shift will come up short an hour. If they stay on that shift through the next pick and do the tour again, they get to work another hour and that balances it out. It's like that for just about ALL hourlies who work the graveyard shaft. Then again, there's the whole year of some form of "night differential" for those who DO the hours (I expect that's STILL the rule at the TA unless TWU sold THAT out too) so the lost hour is not a big deal to most ...
No one who lives where you do has a right to complain about losing an hour this time of year and getting it back in October. If I were you, I'd be in favor of losing a MONTH in the mud season and getting it back in the Autumn.
Enjoy the wet snow/33 degree rain tonight and tomorrow. And the rest of April and half of May.
CONSTRUCTION SEASON!!! "Can't get there from here" ... keeps us safe from Osama ... even if he KNEW how to get here, about the only thing to blow up HERE is bambi. Heh.
For most PEF/CSEA/DC82 types, it's "salary" now ... hourlies are only "part-time" and well ... "welfare to work." :(
Gotta LOVE the "ruling class" ... THEY get paid ... budget's late again, THEY get paid. :(
(That's one reason why i hate this)
(yes, I'm aware they do this automatically....I hope)
Don't laugh, it wouldn't surprise me.
It is 1:59am and you are scheduled to take the 2:08am out.
Wait a minute - 2 minutes later it is 3:01am.
Guess what? You missed your 2:08am run!
I assume supplement schedules were in effect on all lines last night.
There had to be special schedules in effect for the evening.
-Robert King
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
My cell phone only changes over because it synchronizes with the computer.
My new car gets a time signal from the GPS and sets its clock that way, but I still have to activate and deactive daylight savings (only two button presses, one a touch screen press). The old car has none of that and the whole change has to be manual.
In my case, the old car... make that truck... no, call it a "cruck"... (it's a '65 Ford Falcon Ranchero) doesn't even have a clock... indeed, there wasn't even one available on the options list. :-) The '94 Mustang requires a simple push of the hours button to reset while the '96 Windstar requires pressing the clock and tuner buttons on the radio simultaneously to adjust the time.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Anyway, on the way back to ichardton my driver and I were debating how to change the clock radio. I did not have a clue, so I said "where is the Driver's Manual", she said, check the glove box. But of course there is not glove box, so I told her it must be in her side door pocket, whcih of course it was.
And so after thumbing through the index (Why is the clock listed on pages 29, 24, 48, and 62 ??? ~ I mean why not put it in one section: "Clock")
Anyway, setting the time was much easier (just two buttons) than finding out *how* to set the clock.
I said "We'd better book mark that page for next fall!"
: ) Elias
Same here, but in October it requires pressing that same button 11 times. :-)
I have two VCR's and a TV that reset the time automatically. They can be programed to reset or not. I do still have a 3rd older VCR that is about 8 years old, and still needs to be manually reset even after a one second power outage. Another, 16 year old TV is the same way.
It may make a difference that my signal comes from one of those old fashioned rooftop antennas.
The PC, the X-10 controller, the cell phones and the caller ID units.
Things that don't reset automatically:
The car clocks, the answering machine (AKA infernal device), the two TV's (both recent purchases, neither do) 1 of the two VCRS (the older one does, the newer one doesn't, go fig) the microwave, the stove, the various analog clocks and the bedroom clock radio. And, the various watches.
What we all get to go through twice a year for sonething started during World War I.
The worst part is that I forgot the water softener, so it is actually 28!
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
I must admit that everyone I know in this area uses pellet except me, although I have had no further problems since switching.
Both types are available at our local Agway.
Let's end this thread, it is so OT!
Chuck Greene
Here in Baltimore our water is so good that back in steam days, ships would come up the Bay to the Patapsco to refill the tanks with Baltimore water. It's so good that you don't have to do anything to it to put it in a boiler.
As to the watch count: 15. 5 digitals, and 10 that have mainsprings, including my 1911 Illinois Bunn Special.
It's the price I have to pay to live in this beautiful area, hard well water!
including my 1911 Illinois Bunn Special.
Every night I wind a Hamilton pocket watch that my uncle carried as a conductor on the NYNH&H RR.
I wear it (with pride) when I am in uniform at the BSM.
In a home system your cylinder is recharged periodically from a salt tank that sets alongside the cylinder. Dependng on how hard your water is determines how often the unit recharges itself.
Matthew Mummert
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen's little evil troll brother,
< 5 > NereidFlatbush
******************************************************************
From here it is put on the "cooling rack", then into the "refrigerator", then back into the "microwave" before finally proceeding into the "trash can".
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#NewOrleans
When we visited New Orleans in 1996 we took Amtrak back to NYC from that terminal. Reminded me of the old Port Authority Bus Terminal, lots of shades of grey and too many people just hanging around, and in a part of town you only take a cab if you weren't familiar with the place. Now that the Canal St. line is running I'd consider using that to get there rather than the cab, but the station itself was sad.
I read that New Orleans used to have a neat station by Louis Sullivan, but probably it involved street running so the connections to a well placed station couldn't last, resulting in the current one at the outskirts.
******************************************************************
Unfortunately applause never funded anything.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#Moving
******************************************************************
Can someone explain how old "master clock" systems worked with analogue clocks?
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#GCT
There were a few different schemes, but most of them (built by International/IBM/Simplex or Standard Electric) sent out a single pulse to all slave clocks in the system once a minute. Most systems used 24V DC pulses, but anything else could have been used. The pulse triggered a solenoid in each slave clock that "unlocked" the minute hand, when the pulse ended and the solenoid released, the minute hand would advance to the next stop at the next minute position.
This keeps all of the clocks moving in step, but not necessarily indicating the same time. To handle this, a correction pulse was delivered by the master clock once every hour, at the beginning of the hour, instead of a normal per-minute pulse. The correction pulse can be anything distinct from the normal pulses: for example, delivered on a separate wire, or inverted polarity. On simpler systems, the correction pulse would actuate an electromagnet that would draw the minute hand to the :00 position. This system, which would pull the minute hand forward or backward as much as 20 minutes or so, was used on Standard clocks. A more complex (and reliable?) system used by International had the slave clocks stop responding to per-minute pulses when they hit :59 and instead respond only to the correction pulse. During the 59th minute of an hour, the master clock transmits 59 normal (per-minute) pulses, to advance any clock that had fallen behind during the hour. At the last possible moment in the hour, all clocks (including those that had fallen behind) should be indicating :59 and will not be responding to the rapid pulses; when the correction pulse is delivered at the top of the hour, all clocks will advance to :00 in unison. Similarly, a clock that somehow ends up running fast will hit :59 early and stop, awaiting the correction pulse to push it to :00. (These slave clocks can be fun to watch when they're "stuck," they seemingly work very hard at the top of the hour but make no progress. A lot of noise, though.)
Generally speaking, these systems synchronize the minute hand only, once per hour. If it's 3:05 when you install a clock, and you set it to 5:00, when 4:00 rolls around it'll wind up displaying 6:00. More advanced systems would also synchronize the hour hand, using a 12:00 correction pulse, similar to the :00 correction pulse. However, this degree of synchronization wasn't the huge problem it might seem to be: if a clock somehow managed to lose 60 consecutive pulses, then something else was probably wrong and the clock needed to be looked at anyway.
Master clocks and repeaters often included features like "pulse counters," which would "save up" the pulses from the master clock in a power failure and deliver them to the slaves when the power returned. I don't know that any systems allowed clocks to be stepped backwards, but I'm sure it's been done. Even when the clocks would only move forward, it was easy enough to stop the system for an hour, or to set the master clock 11 hours ahead to effectively drop an hour back, to handle the fall equivalent of the dance we all should have done last night. Make the correction once at the master clock, and let it worry about sending out all those pulses.
Where slave units have second hands, they're usually driven locally by the slave clock itself without any synchronization. The second hand stops when it hits :00, and restarts when the clock receives a pulse. It's not too difficult to remain accurate to a fraction of a second if you only have to do it for 60 of them before being resynchronized, even if the time base is line frequency. Even so, synchronized systems with second hands are much rarer than those without.
Remarkably, just about anyone reading this, regardless of age, who attended a school with a synchronized clock system relied on time delivered by a system like the ones described. Fully digital installations are a newer phenomenon, so taking retrofits and new construction into account, this is only just now beginning to change.
IBM has some information on IBM clock systems. You can also find a wealth of information on these systems from people who collect them. Here's one for Standard Electric clocks.
Mark
Peace,
ANDEE
Also, how do these systems support second hand operation?
Thanks so much.
This is a function of the master clock. On the oldest systems, the master clocks were mechanical (pendulum-and-spring movement) with an electric motor connected to wind the spring daily. In the event of a power failure, the master clock would continue to run, but the electrically operated slave clocks obviously would stop. These systems could be fitted with the "pulse counters" I described to mechanically "save" pulses that the master clock generated but could not be delivered to the slaves. Even when pulse counters were not installed, these master clocks were always equipped with a means to advance all slaves in the system. This was usually a button or switch that would send pulses to the system rapidly, rather than once per minute.
On newer, fully-digital masters (yes, master clocks are still being made for pulse-driven analog systems, there's still a huge installed base), the difference between the "new" time (entered on a keypad or synchronized with an external source) and the "old" time is computed and the master sends out the proper number of pulses to catch a slow system up to time, or stops sending pulses until time has caught up with a fast system. The master, when equipped with a battery backup, can also incorporate a pulse counter, except now they're electronic instead of mechanical. And there's still a means by which the system can be advanced manually.
Slave clocks are indicating instruments only. To the slaves, pulses are just pulses. They don't care if they show up on time or not, or if they're generated by a master clock or some prankster with a fistful of 9V batteries. Incidentally, it's simple to improvise a master if you want to get a few slave clocks of your own, especially if you'd be happy with a straight pulse generator and forego some of the self-correcting stuff. If you're good with some combination of electronics, computers, and embedded controllers, it shouldn't be a problem for you to put together a fancy master clock, either.
Also, how do these systems support second hand operation?
The systems I described usually had second-hand operation retrofitted by adding an extra wire (or two) to carry unswitched AC at line frequency (but not necessary line voltage). This drove a synchronous motor to push the second hand. Depending on the system design, the second hand would stop in place either when it hit the :00 position (once per minute) or when it hit :00 and the minute hand was parked at :59 (once per hour). It would not be restarted until unlocked by a solenoid actuated by the rising edge of a per-minute or correction (per-hour) pulse. Sometimes, the motor and gearing were designed so that it took the second hand slightly less than 60 seconds to make one full rotation; this way, there was a better guarantee that the second hand would be parked at :00 when pulse to restart it came along, and less of a need for an electromagnet to draw it into position if it were running slightly behind.
This was possible because commercial power was stable enough (at least in this country) by the time these clocks appeared that, as I mentioned in my last message, it could be trusted as an "accurate enough" timebase for 60 (or 3600) seconds, as long as the second hand would be resynchronized each minute (or hour).
When I say "retrofitted," I mean that, for example, IBM added clocks with sweep second hands to their catalog, not that it was common for people to replace their perfectly good 2- and 3-wire systems.
You can spot these systems by looking for a minute hand that jumps in 1-minute increments. (On "normal" independent clocks, the minute hand sweeps very slowly, and when a second hand is present, it's geared directly to the second hand at the obvious ratio.)
What I've described is the basic design used in most master clock systems, specifically, those manufactured by IBM/Simplex or Standard Electric Time. As usual, there were variations, but they're mostly minor details. Some systems gave hourly correction pulses at some point other than :59/:00, or they used two minutes (or more) as the correction interval instead of one. Some played twice-a-day catch-up at 6: or some other time than 12:, so as to not disrupt the workday. Some ran as plain independent clocks synchronous with line frequency for an hour, and received only hourly correction pulses to pull both the minute and second hands into position. Some played funny gimmicky games with polarity. There are probably at least as many variations as there were manufacturers.
Railroads were big customers of master clock systems for more than just in-station needs. Entire roads were driven by these systems, with slave dials in every station, tower, and office, synchronized timeclocks, and more. As the first real consumers of accurate time, railroads have probably done more for timekeeping than anything before, anything since, or anything to come.
Mark
One click to engage the solenoid and another to release it. The pulses usually lasted a second or two, and on the rising edge (first click), the minute hand on many slave dials actually bounced backwards.
Mark
******************************************************************
It's a shame, another historic treasure bites the dust. They need to pass laws making it illegal to ever destroy anything over 50 years old. Knowing Guilford I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they set the fire themselves.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#Fire
Bill "Newkirk"
******************************************************************
Yet another step in the right direction.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df03292004.shtml#CSX
And the transportation industry will see even less number of sales and marketing people available to figure out how to shape CSX's service offerings. CSX themselves will see civil engineers covering larger and larger geographic areas, and operations manager having larger and larger number of people report to them.
It's not all bad, and it might decrease CSX's operating ratio and increase its share price. But look forward to less innovative service offerings, less patience in negotiating public-private and/or commuter rail schemes, and more haulage opportunities missed because there simply isn't anybody to answer the phone at CSX anymore. Try this yourself: call CSX and ask to speak to someone about a trainload of sand and gravel (tell them 100,000 tons over the course of a month, if they ask) you need shipped from Boston to Jacksonville. See who you get to talk to.
AEM7
Innovative? How about ON TIME. How about reducing terminal dwell? Over on a different board, I regularly read long lists of trains parked on the mains, clogged yards. The purported text of a warning to workers that UPS was not amused when the Boston and Jersey sections were swapped @ Selkirk engendering major delay. You should not need hordes of managers to read a waybill.
disclosure--as a lifelong B&O fan I am a very minor stockholder of CSX
Perhaps you know more about the rest of the CSX system and I hope you are damned right that they're cutting the right people. Hopefully they'll also embark on a growth strategy -- hire people that can generate new businesses.
AEM7
Just my $0.02.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Exactly what safety improvements? Did you ever look at the number of wrecks that CSX has gotten into in recent years compared to its tonnage carried? Did you look at their employee safety record? Do you think you see an unsafe operation? If so, where? Did you ever look at safety on shortlines? Did you ever look at safety in the trucking industry? Exactly what safety improvements are needed at CSX?
So, who's this Mike Ward guy? Maybe the current CSX management isn't the best that there is, but you can't cut your way into growth. If CSX is going to succeed, there needs to be firings as well as hirings. As for these "losers", I think that most managers can manage competetently if there is good leadership from the top. The only reason safety took a back seat was because the top was more concerned about shareholder returns than about safety. Not the fault of the middle managers if they're being asked to meet cut-throat quotas that can only be met by cutting maintenance and safety.
AEM7
I salute you!
" This is a Brooklyn Bridge bound 6 express train"- Jessica Ettinger Gottesman ( the normal 6 voice)
The most annoying thing about yesterday was how many trainsets were getting stuck saying " this is a manhattan bound 6 train" when in manhattan
The first question is who holds our debt because our budget and Balance of Payments deficits have become larger than our domestic economy can absorb. The answer is many foreign countries that have had large amounts of dollars that they cannot spend - many of the same arab governments that have also paid off these same islamic terrorists to play their war games elsewhere.
This reality certainly limits how much "pressure" we can apply to encourage these "allies" to help us. Also, we cannot selectively default on this debt because we need all the oil these countries are willing to give us on credit.
As to your justification for your original statement - it's a big no sale here. If a definite link that the Saudi rulers were behind 9/11 or future similar attacks, I don't think any US administration could resist the 'will of the people' to retalliate vigorously and decisively.
But they can instead give some of those dollars away, in relief or welfare aid to neighbouring nations with a similar culture, which don't happen to have oil and are thus poor. And who is to say what people in those poor nations might do with some of that money? You do not have to postulate any malign intent on the part of the *donor* nations to explain why some of this cash ends up subsidising terror.
First: If it's about the balance of payments and national security we take the oil. We could have done so in Iraq if we felt it were necessary. We could in the rest of that part of the world. Of course, do we really need to. US oil reserves plus off shore and North slope fields could reduce the dangers.
Second: Is it all about the oil? it ain't just the gas guzzler SUVs. It'll be the Geo metros too. When the price hits $5/gal. and people can't heat theeeir homes, then even the anti-war groups, the liberals aand democrats will scream for the bloody stuff too. Then we'll see who the true hawwks are.
Nice pictures!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Times Herald-Record/TONY SAVINO
New Jersey Transit's Meadowlands Maintenance Complex (MMC), where passenger trains are services, including this new Comet V, which is employed on the Port Jervis line.
Anyone notice anything wrong with that caption?
This refers to the train in the picture and that not a Comet V.
Paul
Don't assume that everybody reads your posts.
Also, Click Here for my website
-Chris
One you get it, you cam make website buttons, animated LED marquees and much much more. I make 'Gifimations' as I CALL THEM (i made that up) by putting consecutive photos together and adjusting the speed of change. Just click on the Animation Wizard button and follow the instructions. For the New Dorp one, I just took a bunch of pics as fast as I could as the St. George-bound train left. If you own a website, I would definitely recommend it. (Also, if you have a TransitGallery account, they wont let you upload small .gifs for some reason, so I cant post many examples.)
Hope that helps, CPCTC
-Chris
-Chris
-Chris
P.S.: You can give reasons if you want to and you can choose up to 10 if you wish! :)
My personal favorite(s): GP38 Chris, Elias, SINY_R143, David Pirmann, Bombardier, Train Dude, Salaam Allah, American Pig, and Operational Engineer II (Trevor Logan).
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I liked CC8thavelocal when he still participated.
-Julian
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
My favourites are (in no particular order):
GP38 Chris
Elias
4trainwoodlawn
SUBWAYSURF
SINY_143
CPCTC
Train Dude
Flatbush 41
You people are all my friends (Yes Including DefJef....) So don't think that ok? (Ugh the inevitable cliche)
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
All seriuosness aside.
Peace and THANK YOU,
ANDEE
#3 West End Jeff
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
:D
1.Bombardier-he's got a great site and takes some of the best subway
photos i'v seen.
2.David pirmann-i would want to meet him,this guy has the #1 subway
site in country.
3.Christopher Rivera-another subtalker that takes great photos.
4.Sir Ronald of McDonald-he's got a great site.
til next time
1.Bombardier-he's got a great site and takes some of the best subway
photos i'v seen.
2.David pirmann-i would want to meet him,this guy has the #1 subway
site in country.
3.Christopher Rivera-another subtalker that takes great photos.
4.Sir Ronald of McDonald-he's got a great site.
til next time
1.Bombardier-he's got a great site and takes some of the best subway
photos i'v seen.
2.David pirmann-i would want to meet him,this guy has the #1 subway
site in country.
3.Christopher Rivera-another subtalker that takes great photos.
4.Sir Ronald of McDonald-he's got a great site.
til next time
Don't worry, my 2nd favorite Subtalkers are the 1's who triple post.
Peace,
ANDEE
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Ohhhh, STOP the ass kissing. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
Seriously Ben, I'm not sure if this is a wise question to ask.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
JUST mho.
Peace,
ANDEE
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I LOOOOve the way he makes some of you go nuts. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
til next time
Peace,
ANDEE
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
If you've got a streetcar question, ask away.
If you ever get below the Mason-Dixon line, stop by America's First Downtown Streetcar Museum, The Baltimore Streetcar Museum
E-mail me before you come down and I'll give you the grand tour of Baltimore's rail transit lines and the Museum.
Regards,
Jimmy
Emfinate, GP38Chris, Operational Engineer II, SINY_R143, David Pirman, Salaam Allah(the greatest pics on this whole site IMO), and a whole load of other people....
This place rocks! Thanks David!
Newkirk David Plaza
Arrow III MU
Broadway Junction
Jeff W
Qtraindash7
Bob Andersen
Anyway, thanks!
Regards,
Jimmy
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
GP38 Chris: All-around good guy. Gave me the codes for photo and link posting. Calmed me down when I took DefJef's snide "NYC Subway voted worst in America" joke seriously by mistake.
Elias: No reasons; just an all-around good guy.
SINY_R143: He is such a comedian. I ROFLMAO whenever I think of his troll pics. He also posted those "Dealing with trolls" reduxes. I think his scrolling message that read "SCREW DEFJEF" in MTA letters was hilarious.
David Pirmann: The webmaster, who breaks his back to keep the whole site up and running. Give him lotsa credit.
Bombardier (John Villanueva): SubwaySpot.com webmaster. Excellent photos, and he let me have a community gallery album.
Train Dude: He posts some wise things (IMO).
Salaam Allah: EXCELLENT photos, especially the redbirds. Great personality. He's also the one who made "proff" popular around here.
American Pig: Just an all-around good guy.
Operational Engineer II (Trevor Logan): Contributes good photos to nycsubway.org; all-around good guy.
Dan Lawrence: Mr. Lawrence seems to be quite a gentleman around these parts.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
IOW, USE THE KILLFILES!!!!!!!!!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Congratulations.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Elias
Actually - that's a true story.
Seriously, ya done good by booking him on over yonder ...
Mark
Regards,
Jimmy
Kev still remembers a lot about the R-1/9s. He and his wife, Nancy, are super nice people.
David Pirmann
Grounded Shoe Beam
Mark W.
David of Broadway
Sir Ronald of McDonald
Kool-D
Christopher Rivera
Salaam Allah
OnTheJuice
SUBWAYSURF
Bill Newkirk
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
While we're at it, let me add:
SelkirkTMO
Chuchubob
and Koi
...to the list.
Each 1 of those brahs is listed for each a distinct reason.
1FareBall9
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
O O O And let me not forget
TransitChuckG
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
10. 1SouthFerry9, for the constant tuna stain er... statements.
9. SUBWAYSURF, for his one sentence posts. And they mean a lot for just a few words, sometimes hillarious.
8. (tie) ArrowIII MU and CPCTC for straight civility here on Subtalk. Arrow III also gives me thanks for his kindness by sticking it out on riding the first Sea Beach at 5:15 AM after enjoying the Kosher Crab Juice and food (just kidding about the crab juice, we didn't have any that morning.)
7. Flatbush41, a real Brighton line ally and all around polite person if there ever was one. Does the best bus trip reports you will ever see.
6. Sallam Allah, for the world's greatest photos on the left coast. I promise to meet you in person one day this year, on a Pasenda Gold line platform.
5. #4 Sea Beach Fred, for someone to poke fun (and get it back in return) about how crappy his Sea Beach line is. Great fun to be with.
4. David of Broadway, for the best Subtalk postings and excellent photos. Anything you want information as to justify the subway lines' need, he will give you the reasons why.
3. Sir. Ronald of McDonald, although I tend to disagree with him on one or two issues, he does an excellent website and gives us something to think about. Especially with his "Guess the Location" teasers (which I get many of them correct anyway.)
2. Train Dude, because I will stick up for anyone that turn a one-dimensional issue into a 3-D insight that only TD can do as NYCT manager. His postings are on-target, and I don't care about the negatives from other Subtalkers about how TD is a child. Personally I think it's the posters themselves who have no idea what a NYCT manager is like. Can give credit to people when credit is due.
And numero UNO goes to a tiebreaker between heypaul and SelkirkTMO. They are great Subtalkers, speak a lot of great things and among the most trusted people on earth. So Unca Kirk, when are you coming down to board #1689 and #5466 at the Avenue L station? Be nice to meet you one day.
Honorable mention: American Pig, Paul Mathas, GP38 Chris, Chris R27/30, Bill "Newkirk", and many others I love here at Subtalk.
mr_brian - sound collection
David - ridership data and other statistics, also a welcome voice of rationality
vengence - sharing stories of his experiences
Flatbush41 - another voice of reason, often helps balance some of the silliness
NIMBYkiller - his endless proposals for expansion and extension, and his enourmous imagination
oakapple - makes you think
Frank Hicks - do I even have to say anything? I'm surprised he wasn't mentioned...
Jeff H. & Jersey Mike - vast signal knowledge
American Pig - often says what I'm thinking but don't have the guts to say myself...also a bit of historical knowledge and trivia
Fred G. - forgotten photographer
Elias - comic relief
Far Rockaway A train - sharing stories and memories from the 70's and 80's, as well as that huge gallery of graffiti pics
Steve Hoskins - didn't he make a whole bunch of this site's BAHN layouts? (Whatever happened to those? I never see them updated anymore...)
SteveB-8AVEXP - sharing his experiences on the R-1/9s and R-10s and other pre-war cars
RIPTA42HopeTunnel - a little rough sometimes, but has a great site
john (and WMATAGMOAGH) - Washington Metro info, photos, and let's not forget the track maps [and the list of destination codes!]
All the TA employees [you know who you are, I'm not naming names] - an employee's perspective on things and (though limited) inside information
chuchubob - gotta love the way he slips like 3 or 4 photo links in every sentence in his posts, and it's nice to occsionally see stuff other than NYC transit
Todd Glickman - let's not forget Transit and Weather Together! Too bad Seashore is so far away...
Rail Blue - cracks me up
Qtraindash7 - yeah, he complains too much, but some of his stories are just hilarious
SINY_R143 - the imaginative fantasy maps
Darkside - drew a few historical maps
High St / Brooklyn Bridge (also The Big Bad) - rare and exclusive photos
William A. Padron - helped identify many of the tricky photos in the Unidentified Images section
Anybody else I didn't mention - either you were already mentioned by someone else, or I don't read enough of your posts to say anything, or you don't post much.
Or because I wanna get back to my breakfast. :)
Or maybe you bug me...
"Or maybe you bug me..."
What? I haven't flamed you at all. Or are you being sarcastic?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Or because I wanna get back to my breakfast. :)
Or maybe you bug me...
What? I haven't flamed you at all. Or are you being sarcastic?
Ben, it's not directed towards you in particular. He's referring to the board as a whole & you should loosen up a bit, your Subtalk experience will be much better 8-).
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4taintowoodlawn)
And although I find some of the stuff you say or do a little funny or odd, you're definitely not among those that "bug" me. Relax! :)
You can always check here for the "newest material." I'm going to add some other stuff when I get the chance.
I will be posting another batch from the '80s in the near future. If you are into buses, I will be posting stuff from the '80s as well as from the '70s on Bustalk. So keep an eye out for these.
IAWTP
(I guess it must have been the Thomas the Tank Engine post...)
Da Hui
BTW, why does he put "Da Hui" at the end of all his messages?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
More like rude and obnoxious.
Regards,
Jimmy :)
Just goes to show to read all of the responses in a thread.
Regards,
Jimmy
PS, you got me hungry for Falafel again.
JLA
Nah Cockeye the Battery Man suits you better.
Da Hui
Peace,
ANDEE
However, there is one post that I've read that is bar none my benchmark for posts at this and any of the other fora:
It's MikeF 's Winter Ode To The 7 Train
I wasn't posting at the time, Mike, but know this: You owe me a new monitor cuz I spewed coffee all over mine. A true Windex moment!
Your pal,
Fred
AEM7
Amanda
American Pig
Broadway Junction
Deaks
Fytton
LincolN
Max Roberts
NIMBYkiller
#4 Sea Beach Fred
SINY_R143
Wado
Then I gave up as I realised what a good place SubTalk is! [raises extremely large wine-glass] To everyone!!!
You going to share some of that wine? ;)
No!! It's all mine!!! :-P But as you ask SO nicely...
Oh and whether it could endure a trans-Atlantic flight is another matter...
First place is a tide between:
Operational Engineer 2, and Paul Roach (forgot handle). You guys are like my older brothers, and without you 2, I dont know where I would be.
2nd: David: For keeping me on my toes information wise.
3rd: Ozzy, the psycho with the long ass screen name.
4th: Mark W: And your witty remarks.
5th: Tide between Lincoln and Broadway Junction. No particular reason, just 2 good, opportunistic friends.
I mean tie.
I wish I could edit these damn posts.
-Chris
No problem.
A few more SubTalkers whom I had neglected to mention earlier, but who also are on my respected list:
Steve Hoskins
Anon_e_mouse
Mister K
Jailhouse Doc
I'm sure I'll think of others.
:-) Andrew
"The British crew (Fytton, Rail Blue, David Fairthorne) - sharp observations from the other side of the pond."
While Rail Blue and I indeed both live in England, I have the impression that David Fairthorne is a Brit who now lives in the USA.
Why, THANK you Peter. I'm often tempted to post a lot more than I do, but try to do so only when I feel I really have something to say. Other peoples' opinions may vary, of course.
Anyway, my favorites, personally and/or by postings in no particular order:
David of Broadway
RIPTA 142 Tunnel
Kevin Walsh
BMT Man
Newkirk Plaza Dave
Sir Ronald
Mr_t
Paul Matus
'Sparky'
anon_e_mouse
Broadway Junction
Operational Engineer
Qtraindash7
Lou from Brooklyn
Chris R27-30
Steve B- 8 Av Express
Mark Feinman
chuchubob
Sea Beach Fred
Flabush 41
Oh yeah, and some guy by the name of Peter Rosa.
David Pirrman (creator of this great website)
Chuchubob (great photos)
Jeff W (helps me out all the time)
Wbodner (cool guy and helps me out)
Chuck ;-)
Operational Engineer II
gotta shout Dave for the site.
sciguy1904 enjoy being ur bro LOL
SUBWAYSURF
CLAYTON PARKER(stands up for a brother)
MARK W
PELHAM BAY DAVE
DUTCHRAILNUT(NICE TO HAVE SOMEONE WORKING IN THE SAME RAILROAD AS ME)
AMANDA(like ur posts, and u remind me of my best friend who shares the same name)
STEVE-8AV EXP
FAR ROCKAWAY A TRAIN (REPRESENT THAT A MAN)
EBWAYTONY AND TOO MANY OTHERS TO NAME.
FORMERLY E JAMAICA CENTER
NOW A 8AV FULTON EXPRESS
Peter Rosa
Windsor Terrace Economist
David
Nimbykiller
American Pig
david vartanoff
Selkirk
John J Blair
David of Broadway
What makes SubTalk a good place to drop by is that there's really nobody here who I dislike.
CG
Qtraindash7
CG
22 years ago I was a teen on Long Island with no form of transportation except for my bike, the bus and the train.
CG
1. Carl M. Rabbin
2. Jersey Mike (keep the grudges to yourself people)
3. BMTman
4. Steve B-8AVEXP
5. Wayne-MrSlantR40
6. Hank Eisenstein
7. Zman179
8. Peter Rosa
9. The Transit Professional formerly known as Mr. R-46
10. Mark S Feinman
They were always respectful, never referred you to past posts, respected the younger railfans. Gave respect when given. Never acted immature, and they answered every question instead of bitching about how many times the question has been asked before. They're knowledge is far reaching, and worth hearing. What is sad is that alot (most) of the people on the list either don't post anymore or rarely post. (Quite Possibly under another handle)
Those were good times...
1) Photography: Jersey Mike (esp. signals), Brian Weinberg "Sir Ronald," and GP38Chris, Chuchubob and of course Dave Pirmann...
2) Best knowledge of subway and American history and best explanations: American Pig
3) Best on signals: Jersey Mike
4) My all-around favorite (and most entertaining posts): Selkirk
Best posts on electronics: Phillip Nasadowski and Jeff W.
Best mathematical posts and theoretical posts: Stephen Baumann
SelkirkTMO: Madly funny.
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen: A great friend.
Flatbush41: Edits some of the mischief (that includes some of my mischief) with his neverending common sense.
edk256: Also very funny.
Arrow III MU: A great personality aroung these parts.
Broadway Junction: Posts some good stuff.
( 1 ) South Ferry ( 9 ): A dang good street talker.
TransitChuckG: Another great personality. And he's got planty with his long (50 something years long!) experience of the hobby.
VCP R62#1516/QV RTS #8374 Q79 Floral Park LIRR: The nut. :-)
Don't think I'm singling y'all out who I didn't put (except the 4 people here [I won't mention any names] that bug me), you're all my friends. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
New Look Terrapin: A man with lotsa plans (i.e. the "Redbirds Forever" movie, the SubTalk BBQ CookOut)
Rail Blue: Can be funny sometimes, IMO.
John J. Blair: See above. :-)
OnTheJuice: SubTalk's favorite homeboy (I mean that in a funny/good way).
LincolN, RonInBayside: Very enthusiastic.
Some BusTalkers:
BIG AL, Brooklyn67, MJQoperator, ENY Nova 5205: They make good bus info. encyclopedias. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Chris
Not everyone here is my favorite (although you are one of them). I like everyone here but I just have those who I like more than others (my favorites) and I just have a lot. Besides, didn't you see Dante's (Broadway Junction's) list?
You might as well have a least favorite SubTalker thread instead.
That would ignite flamage.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Thanks!
I want to thank my computer, my TV, my Metrocard...
Lincoln
SciGuy 1904
VCP R62#1516/QV RTS #8374 Q79 Floral Park LIRR
4traintowoodlawn
A 8AV FULTON EXP
aznboy4305
Mark W.
High St/Brooklyn Bridge
G1Ravages & His Dad (LOL!)
Bombardier
jehuty v2
Amanda
And thanks to those that gave me props!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.info
You're one of my favs and I'm one of your favs. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I never made enemies here. Always got along. Posted photos, and all that stuff.
I met 2-3 Subtalkers. One never wanted to be meantioned for some crazy reason(Meantioned that I saw him because somebody else he hated or something would say something. -_-, yeah right my but). The other one was on the riverline, I think it was chuck, cant remember really. Then another I suspect also was from here since him and chuck(I think anyways) were railfan talking. And I suspect chuck because the guy called him chuck, I forgot if I said anything though. -_-
But anyways, I hate these damn topics. I'm either left out, or somebody is left out, which can make enemies and hatred.
Are you a girl? >_
I've sene his name on here, but no votes for him?
What about #4 Sea Beach Fred and #1 Brighton Beach Bob? Or Uncka Selkirk TMO?
Or even Darlene Stefanson or even this characters liek Jersey Mike?
What ab out them?
any information is greatly appreciated.
Dangnabbit, that should be "its." I sincerely apologize for that glaring mistake. I will try to make sure it never happens again.
Your pal,
Fred
PS, it's 'dagnabbit'
In their mid-1990s report, to spice things up, they did an analysis of the neighborhoods along the Flushing Line, the most immigrant intensive area of the city in terms of sheer diversity. The dubbed it the "Orient Express," and spiced up the data with a chapter entitled "A Ride on the Orient Express" combining their data on the changing groups by stop with an overview of the shops and restarants surrounding the stops.
The report made a big splash in the press and made the "demographateers" briefly famous. Amoung the other perks, they got to do a restaurant tour of the area, for publication, with Molly O'Neil, the New York Times food critic at the time (Paul O'Neil's sister). The whole thing just built on itself, and that's who the name came about and the Flushing Line became famous as a symbol of immigrants in America.
Anyway, I've asked my former mates to provide me with a population data run in exchange for some economic data I provided to the Department of City Planning, gratis. Next time I talk to them, I'll ask if they can use their next immigration report to do for the Brighton Line what they did for the Flushing Line.
How about the "Silk Road."
In terms of ridership or sentimental value?
Peace,
ANDEE
-Chris
1) What line is prefered by riders?
2) What line is used by riders?
All in all, I'd have to go with the A.
D to Brighton Beach!!
You CANNOT defend yourself against some WILLING to commit suicide. Just MHO.
Peace,
ANDEE
Israel should kill the families of suicide bombers. At the same time, they should abandon settlements and open a dialogue saying that they are willing to stop and have peace.
Peace must often only follow war.
Regards,
Jimmy
- 625 new R68/R68A cars replacing all R10/R16/R27's and many R30's.
- The scrapping of all R12/14/15/17/21/22 A division cars.
- The first additional lines openening since the late 1960's, reversing a 20 year trend of subway contraction.
- Massive overhauls in how maintenance is handled (switching from deferred to scheduled).
- Hundreds of miles of track replaced.
I guess you['re new here....perhaps you aren't aware, but typing in all-capital letters is considered discourteous on Internet boards. It's tantamount to yellign and screaming. Perhaps you might be able to hit your caps-lock key next time.
-Robert King
The Type 8's are a disaster (in fact, nothing built by Breda for the light rail market have ever been a success. Cleveland, San Francisco and Boston all bought LRV's from Breda and all have had problems. Cleveland had to tweak their's in-house to get them to work as promised. SF Muni has had beaucoup problems with their's as well, and we all know the myriad problems with the Type 8's) and the MBTA would have been better off to dump the contract, pay the penalties and go back to Kinki-Sharo for the order.
Add to that the plain fact that Breda's designers were beaten senceless with a pile of ugly sticks for the SF and Boston orders.
As to Boeings, why? Only MBTA was able to get a Boeing to work properly. Pay Amerarail to fix a the door and AC problem.
I don't know anything about Cleveland or San Francisco Bredas, but I think that the Boston Bredas have not really been as bad as people would have you believe. There were problems, and they have to be fixed, and some of it is due to design faults. Others is due to cheaping out. Some is due to the infrastructure, and really Breda's lack of experience in building something intended for legacy infrastructure. Sure, Breda is at fault for building a crappy car, but they are not bad engineers... sometimes it's a question of the kind of resources they have available to deal with the design issues.
Are you aware that there had been rust issues with Kinki-Sharyos? Different builders seemed to be good at different things. The Boeings were built like tanks, and they're still going (despite being a maintenance nightmare); the Kinkis were spalling all over the place due to the use of fillers on the curved section of the body -- hence the repaint program.
Seems to me that different builders had different problems. They are not unavoidable, and it is true that Breda didn't build a great vehicle, but it'll be fixed, given some time and money.
As to Boeings, why? Only MBTA was able to get a Boeing to work properly. Pay Amerarail to fix a the door and AC problem.
And you do remember why the door problem was there in the first place, right? Because Muni has those stupid mixed high-low platform operations that required plug doors?
AEM7
til next time
Take the Redbirds for example. Rife with asbestos, the potential buyer may breathe it and that's instant litigation. Even if the MTA bothered to go through all the trouble, money is something they want to save firsthand.
(d) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There is authorized to be appropriated from the Highway Trust Fund (other than the Mass Transit Account) to carry out this section $40,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2005 through 2009.
(e) APPLICABILITY OF TITLE 23, UNITED STATES CODE- Funds authorized to be appropriated by this section shall be available for obligation in the same manner as if such funds were apportioned under chapter 1 of title 23, United States Code; except that the Federal share of the full project costs of an eligible project shall be 80 percent and such funds shall remain available until expended.
-----------------
In full for just in case link expires:
SEC. 1114. DEPLOYMENT OF MAGNETIC LEVITATION TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS.
(a) DEFINITIONS- In this section, the following definitions apply:
(1) ELIGIBLE PROJECT COSTS- The term `eligible project costs'--
(A) means the capital cost of the fixed guideway infrastructure of a MAGLEV project, including land, piers, guideways, propulsion equipment and other components attached to guideways, power distribution facilities (including substations), control and communications facilities, access roads, and storage, repair, and maintenance facilities, but not including costs incurred for a new station; and
(B) includes the costs of preconstruction planning activities.
(2) FULL PROJECT COSTS- The term `full project costs' means the total capital costs of a MAGLEV project, including eligible project costs and the costs of stations, vehicles, and equipment.
(3) MAGLEV- The term `MAGLEV' means transportation systems employing magnetic levitation that would be capable of safe use by the public at a speed in excess of 240 miles per hour.
(4) STATE- The term `State' has the meaning such term has under section 101(a) of title 23, United States Code.
(b) IN GENERAL-
(1) ASSISTANCE FOR ELIGIBLE PROJECTS- The Secretary shall make available financial assistance to pay the Federal share of full project costs of eligible projects authorized by this section.
(2) USE OF ASSISTANCE- Financial assistance provided under paragraph (1) shall be used only to pay eligible project costs of projects authorized by this section.
(c) PROJECT ELIGIBILITY- To be eligible to receive financial assistance under subsection (b), a project shall--
(1) involve a segment or segments of a high-speed ground transportation corridor;
(2) result in an operating transportation facility that provides a revenue producing service; and
(3) be approved by the Secretary based on an application submitted to the Secretary by a State or authority designated by 1 or more States.
(d) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There is authorized to be appropriated from the Highway Trust Fund (other than the Mass Transit Account) to carry out this section $40,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2005 through 2009.
(e) APPLICABILITY OF TITLE 23, UNITED STATES CODE- Funds authorized to be appropriated by this section shall be available for obligation in the same manner as if such funds were apportioned under chapter 1 of title 23, United States Code; except that the Federal share of the full project costs of an eligible project shall be 80 percent and such funds shall remain available until expended.
SEC. 1115. RECREATIONAL TRAILS.
A few politicians have ben hooked on this dead end for years now. I'm not surrised at all...
Sorry. Here is one site with good HTML source:
HTML coding tips at Draac.com
(BTW, I preferred the old monotone sound over the stupid SOS beeps we hear today).
For example, if the back was closed and the front open, and you spotted the connecting train, would you re-open the back? If you've lost a lot of time, then? Sometimes a tower might radio you to "close it up?"
I know its completely contextual question, but I'm just looking for some insight into what you guys think about.
Robert
Funny thing is if a train is 6 minutes late passing them southbound, they don't tell anyone. However, if a northbound train is 3 minutes late, they want to know why.
Hey! I never knew that the (R) train had a schedule.
Of course, the last time I rode on it, it was still the (RR) train, the R-27s were new with a nice pink interior.
I got off at Whitehall Street, and ended up in Vietnam.
Elias
We need a lot more people in the TA that realize that their job is to move the passengers and not to get to the terminal as quickly as possible.
The problem is, what would some SubTalkers complain about then? ;)
They'd find something, trust me. 8-/
Peace,
ANDEE
Oh, wait, they already do that.
What gets my goat as a passenger, er, customer is conductors who
get into pissing contests with passengers over door holding, _during
midnight hours!
Off-peak periods, namely daytime between rush periods, and evenings conductors are encouraged to make connections.
Late nights, when headways between trains are greater, conductors ARE REQUIRED to make connections.
Although, no matter the time of day, usually local supervision (dispatchers at local towers or area master towers, etc.) will order the train to hold in the station to make the connection with an incoming train, either by radio order, or by station holding lights. This all is usually done if schedule (on-time, x-amount of minutes lateness, etc.) permits it.
"This is Dekalb Ave. Next stop: Chambers St".
Regards,
Jimmy
Click here and enjoy
(Although thinking purely in terms of interurbans I'd probably choose a date about thirty years earlier.)
Alan Follett
Hercules, CA
In any event, those cars, on the 36 Broadway-State line, are my earliest traction memories. I remember standing on the corner of Surf and Broadway, before the Forties were over, and watching the cars go by: 36-119-Morgan, 36-Broadway-Devon. I horrified my RN mother by picking up stray transfers, o surely turbecular in extremis, from the sidewalk in front of the Commodore and the Greenbrier. A couple of years later, when I was a bit more mobile, I remember discovering Limits Station, three blocks away. I even have a crystal-clear memory, surely evidence for the reality of false memory syndrome, of PCCs looping back on Surf Street between Clark and Broadway, where the tracks assuredly never were laid.
My early grade school years included many trips aboard Green Hornets between Broadway-Surf and Nettlehorst School at Broadwwy-Melrose.
A few days before the discontinuance of the last Chicago trolley line, Wentworth Avenue (the south end of 22 Clark-Wentworth), I remember, on my 6th-grade class tour of Chicago, encountering the Green Hornets on Wentworth Avenue in Chinatown, in connection with our class luncheon. I was the only boy in the class who ordered off of Chi-Am's Chinese menu, instead of wimping out on the hamburger. I attribute this to the fact that for many years my family had been saved from my mother's happy-amateur cookery (an ornament to her profession, but definitely not Julia Child) by Wing Yee's carryout.
Alan Follett
Hercules, CA
Incidentally, one of our regular Subtalkers rode on the last Broadway streetcar as well as the very last one to operate in Chicago on June 21, 1958.
I assume that is a reference to me. I do have documented evidence of being on the last Broadway car. My picture was published in the CTA Transit News (employee newsletter) of the conductor punching my transfer. Imagine! Streetcars with conductors!
Of course, I'd get to see shiny new R-32s again. Not to mention seeing what was left of Penn Station. We passed through it on the 20th, but I don't remember anything except the announcer's voice booming over the loudspeakers in the Concourse.
IIRC, Airtrain uses a derrivative of a bonkers system someone (Alcatel?) did years ago for some system out in the UK (Docklands LRT?), the cables crossing allow the onboard computer to figure out where the train is...
IIRC, Airtrain uses a derrivative of a bonkers system someone (Alcatel?) did years ago for some system out in the UK (Docklands LRT?), the cables crossing allow the onboard computer to figure out where the train is...
They are in fact guardrails. WMATA uses the same type angle iron for guardrails on their elevated sections The cables are cross bond for grounding purposes. I highly doubt cables are connect to reaction rail unless there is some need to ground the casing of reaction rail to the guardrails.
John
And no, I wasn't the photographer... although I had a camera with me, I didn't take any pictures yesterday... the weather wasn't particularly good.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Does it say anywhere that you're not supposed to be tehre and you have to wait in a concourse? Because if not, I woulda done what you did, maybe causing a scene while i'm at it, since I would be a tourist and wouldn't "know better".
Please let us know how it turns out.
And if you got 1000 people to do this with you, most of the sheeple would just think you're a bunch of crazy loons. I mean, standing up for your rights? Who do you think you are, Winston?
Welcome to the Police State.
All sheeple approved by the Government in its Infinite Wisdom and Goodness to ride the train line up on the left, drop your pants and let the friendly Fatherland Security officer make sure you're not hiding a grenade up your colon. Anyone who asserts their constitutional right to privacy, 4th amendment rights against unjustified search and seizure, 1st amendment rights of freedom of expression, god forbid 2nd amendment rights to defense, 6th or 8th amendments regarding trial and punishment, a lawyer, or dares to question the Goodness of the Government, will be shot. Survivors will be shot again. You will not speak of such rights, for only Terrorists and their handlers need to use them. You do not need them for the Government is Wise and Good and will protect you against the Evil in the world. You can, however, if you choose request a female officer to do the cavity search, but you will have to wait 3 hours for her to arrive. Big Brother knows better than you, now turn your head and cough.
Now repeat after me: Terrorists are Evil, Terrorists are Evil, Terrorists are Evil, the Government is Good, the Government is Good, the Government is Good. They know what is Good for me. They know what is Good for me. They know what is Good for me. Just do what the man in the uniform says - he knows better than I do. Just do what the man in the uniform says - he knows better than I do. Just do what the man in the uniform says - he knows better than I do. Terrorists are Evil, Terrorists are Evil, Terrorists are Evil, the Government is Good, the Government is Good, the Government is Good. The Government makes us Safe. The Government makes us Safe. The Government is Wholesome and Good, and its Infinite Wisdom will protect us against all Evil. Anyone who disagrees is a Terrorist. The Government is Wholesome and Good, and its Infinite Wisdom will protect us against all Evil. Anyone who disagrees is a Terrorist. Terrorists are Evil, Terrorists are Evil, Terrorists are Evil.
You may now board your train, and get off when Big Brother tells you it is okay to do so. The Government is Good, and is protecting you from the Evil Terrorists, so Evil that you alone cannot even comprehend without the Government to protect you under its wing. The Government is Good, and is protecting you from the Evil Terrorists. The Government is Good, and is protecting you from the Evil Terrorists. America is winning the war against al-Qaidasia, and the Government's forces of Good will vanquish the Evil Terrorists. Hoo-ah! Hoo-ah!
GOOD FOR YOU!!!! I hope the cowardly schmuck gets disciplined.
We noticed that. But we were simply wandering the countryside, stopping where we felt like it, with no real schedule other than being at the Blue Mountain Family Restaurant in Shartlesville around 5 PM for the pre-dinner schmoozing, so it really didn't matter.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
I can think of one word to describe her: it begins with "c" and rhymes with "hunt."
And I thought we were going to punish the TERRORISTS. :(
AEM7
I'd say the "war on terrorism" is coming along famously. There's even folks around here who have shown off their "sealed room" to the local newspapers. :)
I was down in NS's Inman Yard (Atlanta) after 9/11, and I had no problems walking along the overbridge, taking photos of trains, and generally hanging out -- along with another 3 people. We even shot a video.
If Selkirk really is that way, then I am concerned about what else might be going on at Selkirk. Area 51?
AEM7
CSX is a bit different from NS is about the only other possibility I can offer. There's a traffic bridge that goes over the yard as well with high fences and TV cameras. Heaven help you if you break down there.
Sounds like the best place to break down. You'll get the police calling a tow truck for you within minutes.
That doesn't sound right ... the police would have no legal authority to impound a car merely because it broke down on a public road near a rail yard.
I mean REALLY ... what terrorist in their right mind would want to blow up trees and bambi? Terrorism isn't about military advantage or strategy, it's about scaring the qwap out of as many people as possible and make them LIVE in fear that THEY might be next. If they blow up a trailer park, about all we're going to do is break out the marshmallows. :(
But all this is SURE getting plenty of mileage out of the politicos. We may not have terrorists, but we've got politicians telling us that Troy's NEXT ... if the terrorists can FIND Troy. :)
Remember my post about fun & games with the CSX fuzz at BSM a while back? Seems the Baltimore City Police Department doesn't like CSX's cops either. (Or they LOVE us.)
One of the benefits though of living in Albany county is that the good Senator Joe AIN'T ours. Ahhhhhhhh. :)
While waiting for the Meteor, which was over 2 hours late arriving in Philly (it left Miami on EST) and two hours 30 minutes late arriving in Trenton, I photographed Amtrak AEM7's in contrasting liveries.
Here's a gratuitous photo for you.
Chuck Greene
At any rate, it would be a wonderful addition to the service. But since it's hard to keep a cell phone connection, I wonder how robust the service will be.
THE SUBWAY. WE'RE COMING BACK. SO YOU COME BACK.
That slogan would flash across the screen at the end of each TV skit with a typewriter noise typing it out. There were many different versions of the commercials. The five ads below are a sample of some of them. Each ad represents a different commercial that was shown on TV, so for example, when you saw the "Woodside Ladies" on the subway ad, you could actually hear them talking from when you saw the commercial on TV. That's why all the phrases are in quotes. I wish I remember if I taped some of them back then, but I have so many old VHS tapes that even if I knew if I had them it would be hard to find.
So here they are, some of you may still remember that typing sound as the "We're Coming Back." slogan was done at the end of the commercials when you see the ads.
"When we stop a crime at the gate, we stop a more serious crime before it happens."
"They're fixing the tracks here." "They've repaired the tracks." "Yes, I agree with her."
"People always notice when something gets worse. But I actualy noticed it got better."
"Now they have air-conditioning on the trains so in the summer you don't suffocate."
"It's definitely not perfect. We still have a long way to go. But we're getting there."
So do any of you guys remember these TV, radio, and subway car ads?
So they came back, and the MTA is now overwhelmed, so maybe their new slogan should be:
The Subway
You came back, but not so many at a time please.
What I didn't understand at the time was WHY the commericals in the first place. The subways were still bad I figured everyone knew what they were getting into so there was no pretention. I figured the ads were a weak and useless since I didn't see any improvments and figured they would never get rid of the griffitti. (sp)
In the end, I was proved wrong.
You actually answered the reason that the commercials and subway ads in the trains were actually done. It was because the subway HAD improved, and they were trying to get people that didn't realize that fact the message. Around 1989 or so when the ads were done the subway was noticably better already, but many people still thought the stigma that the subway had earned in the 70's and 80's was still the case. The ads did do their job, to let people know the subway was no longer the subway of the 70's and 80's.
It sounds trivial now, but at the time people that didn't ride the subway had no clue that it had improved.
My opinion:
It sure is a good thing there are veterans here who have more experience than I to show photos of trains from the '80s that can be seen by spring chickens such as me (LMAO) that were born in 1992 or whatever. Thanks a bunch to all the adults here at SubTalk who have provided photos from the '80s!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
P.S.: Now you know because you've never known before: I was born June 20th, 1992.
Jimmy :)
Hey! I was new in 1992! :)
Whaddaya know? I made a rhyme! "I was new in nineteen ninety-two!" LOL!
I was born June 20th, 1992.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The snow pack is gone, and the mud is deep: perfect spring weather to get ready for the season.
For anyone who is interested in initial membership/operating instruction, email me privately; new operator training begins on May 8. Returning operators are asked to come either April 17 or 18. For those who can't make those dates, training/requalification can be individually scheduled later in the season if necessary.
For the record, today's cars used were TARS 631, P&WC 62, and electric locomotive #300. I also had to shift NYCTA R4 #800 a bit...
Oh boy, I'm sure that was a real hardship on you. Boo hoo hoo. I'll be lucky if I get 5 minutes in an R-9 in the next 10 years!
Do they use third rail out there, or do you also have overhead wire.
I suppose, third rail would be rather dangerous in a museum...
Elias
-Stef
I understand we have 20 or so new people coming to our new operator course. Plenty of room for more...
All of the codes in this table will display NO PASSENGERS in the sign box for deadhead runs.
CodeRTU NumberDestinationNotes74D99New Carrolton Yard 76K08Vienna 77G03Addison RoadFuture Largo78D98D&G Junction Pocket 79J03Franconia/Springfield 80A02Farragut North Pocket 81B3.5New York Ave SidingSiding not to be built82A11Grosvenor Pocket 83B99Brentwood YardVia signal B99 46 southbound track B284B99Brentwood YardVia signal B99 06 northbound track B285B99 Brentwood YardVia signal B99 06 northbound track B286B98Glenmont Yard 87A99Shady Grove Yard 88B08Silver Spring Pocket 89B06 E06B and E Connector TrackUsed on both E and B routes90A02 C02C and A Connector TrackUsed on both A and C routes91E01Mt Vernon Square Pocket 92E99Greenbelt Yard 93M99Dulles Yard 94K99West Falls Church Yard 95K06West Falls Church Pocket 96F99Branch Ave Yard 97C15Huntington 98C10National Airport Pocket 99C99Alexandria Yard
On another note,
The New York Avenue Station will open some time in September. The existing B03 double crossover will be cutout and abandoned before the station is opened and when the main line tracks are routed through the station platforms a new B03 double crossover will be installed some time in 2005 after the station opens.
The original plan to build a siding on the existing B1 northbound easement has been deleted from the project. Future track schematics will reflect this change.
There will be a lot of 15 MPH speed restrictions during the new track cut in process between Berentwood Yard B99 and Union Station B03 and during the installation of the relocated B03 double crossover.
The $64.00 question has been answered. The RTU for the New York Avenue Station will be B03.5 Pronounced as "B Three and a half"
John
John
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
How about them zorchy bluesish headlights that some cars are sporting these days. Bright light like that will keep the geese from looking at them too long.
I am building a new computer, a server, and it has two little blue LEDs but those suckers are BRIGHT. You make an array of them, and they'd make perfectly fine headlamps.
Elias
And the blueish headlights are fake white headlights. They put a lot of fancy graphics and random Japense letters on it at the "performance shops" and BAM!, all the people want to customize their cars with them.
#3 West End Jeff
Do you? Because if you do, then you'd be WRONG. They can, they have, they will, and they DO!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
My dream car would be a Volkswagen Passat Wagon, and take out and throw away the bulb blinkers, taillamps, maybe the reversers, and maybe the headlamps, get LEDs for all of them. (Yes, the Volkswagen Passat Wagon [the one that does NOT have the Volkswagen Jetta-styled taillamps] is my favorite car in the whole world.)
Of course, I still have to wait until adulthood...
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Yeah, too bad.
You'll also be glad to know (not that it makes much of a difference) that I'm against the driving age.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Check out what it does to the spider on the ground:
Check out what it does to the guys hiding out in the tower thingy:
Check out what it does to this R-44 (A) train cresting the hill:
Check out how it fared with all my other shots from today:
Tell me if you likey.....
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Your pal,
Fred
Regards,
Jimmy
til next time
The camera is a Panasonic DMC-FZ1 hacked into a DMC-FZ2. It has a 12x Optical Zoom with MEGA Optical Image Stabilization. Tis SWEET!
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
til next time
Hacked? Lucy, 'Splain...
The main problem with the FZ1 is that is has no shutter priority and aperture priority modes. The FZ2 does, and thus the firmware upgrade provided me with those options. Without those two modes, the camera would be much less useful for subway photography.
BTW: I really wanted to do the late night trip last night. I wasn't nearly as tired as I thought I'd be.
Sorry about the late night trip. I canceled it because I envision it being a LARGE group of railfans riding the system all night
and having a jolly old time. But as it was, it would only have been 5 or 6 people total. I think that maybe during the summer
when it is warmer out, we may be able to get a group of at least 10, and then we will reschedule the trip at that time. Sorry
again, and I hope you can make the rescheduled trip.
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Are you talking about signals?
Great photos from a great camera, (not to mention a great photographer too!).
The short answer: Ask a rabbi.
The slightly longer answer: The common Ashkenazic custom is for those who are able to eat regular matzah to refrain from eating egg matzah.
Whatever you do, don't use egg matzah for the ritual matzah eaten at the seder. That's law, not custom -- the matzah at the seder has to be "poor" matzah, made of flour and water only, no egg or juice.
Personally, having tasted egg matzah, I find that it tastes funny and is no more easily digested than the regular stuff.
While we're at it, skip the Manischewitz. The Israeli brands, especially Yehuda, are cheaper and much better.
Conservative? Certainly not reformed???
Passover celebrates the exodus of the Jews from Egypt and the birth of the Jewish people as a people. They didn't call themselves Orthodox, Conservative, or Reform. Why should Jews today have to pigeonhole themselves into a movement?
Ah, when did I say I was talking about you? I just said "David and Brian".
Just Kidding!
Good Yom Tov.
*I pulled that statement out of my a$$. Consult a rabbi for a real answer.
I haven't had egg matzo on Passover since I was 16 or 17 probably. And I hope to never need to have it.
No
No
According to the laws of kashrut, eggs are "parve", noy dairy. But nutritionists often refer to them as dairy.
:-) Andrew
Ahhhh, you've successfully found a way to make ice cream seem disgusting.
Depends on the mammal.
:-) Andrew
BTW, I can post this while most (all?) other Orthodox subtalkers are busy celebrating the holiday as I currently live in Israel, where:
1. We are seven hours ahead of NYC; and
2. We celebrate only the first day (and not the first two days) of Passover as a holiday (that's also why we only have one Seder here).
Happy holiday to all,
subfan
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
That wasn't very clear... it's not a reference to the US vs. Israel but rather to the "working world".
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
And there are tens of thousands of others who didn't seem to have a problem either...
:)
Provided it's shmura matzah. Many have a preference for hand shmura because there are Poskim who hold the requirement for positive supervision (to guarantee the ingredients do not contain chometz) cannot be properly fulfilled where the entire process is produced by machine. Also, assuming it was baked with proper supervision, 18 minute machine shmura matzah may be used for the Sedorim.
There are certainly those who prefer to use exclusively shmura matzah the first two days, as well as those who prefer to use exclusively shmura matzah throughout, but the basic halacha surely doesn't require it. (I'm not even sure if the basic halacha requires shmura matzah at the sedarim, although it's certainly preferred then.)
Indeed, some prefer hand-baked over machine-made on halachic grounds, but others prefer machine-made over hand-baked also on halachic grounds (namely, that it's less likely for chometz to result from an automated process than from a manual process).
Rabbi Shimon Eider, author of the sefer, "Halachos of Pesach."
* There are certainly those who prefer to use exclusively shmura matzah the first two days, as well as those who prefer to use exclusively shmura matzah throughout, but the basic halacha surely doesn't require it. (I'm not even sure if the basic halacha requires shmura matzah at the sedarim) *
It absolutely does require it. The Torah states, "you shall guard the matzos" (Shemos 12:17). This the the source of the requirement of eating, on the Seder night(s), "guarded" (shmura) matzah.
* others prefer machine-made over hand-baked also on halachic grounds (namely, that it's less likely for chometz to result from an automated process than from a manual process). *
I'm surprised you say that, what is your source? There are Poskim who hold that the requirement for positive supervision cannot be properly fulfilled where the entire process is produced by machine.
Thanks. I will try to dig up a copy.
It absolutely does require it. The Torah states, "you shall guard the matzos" (Shemos 12:17). This the the source of the requirement of eating, on the Seder night(s), "guarded" (shmura) matzah.
All matzah is guarded. The question isn't hand vs. machine; it's the duration of the guarding: from the time of the harvest or only from the time of the milling? So-called shmura matzah is of the former variety, but the basic halacha is that the latter is sufficient. I certainly can't imagine why it would be sufficient on the third day but not the first or second.
I'm surprised you say that, what is your source?
I've spoken to such people.
There are Poskim who hold that the requirement for positive supervision cannot be properly fulfilled where the entire process is produced by machine.
I think you're confusing the issue of guarding with the issue of making the matzah for the purpose of the mitzvah. Indeed, there was a big controversy among the rabbis when Manischewitz began producing machine matzah. A century and change later, most have concluded that it's sufficient for the person activating the equipment to have the mitzvah in mind, but I'm sure some disagree.
Not so. If that were the case, all boxes of matzah would be labeled "shmura matzah."
I ran into a Blumenkrantz this morning. According to him (and he's generally considered quite stringent), the halacha is that shmura matzah must be used at the seder (for matzah, korech, and afikomen), unless shmura matzah is unavailable, in which case regular (Pesach) matzah suffices. At all other times, including the rest of the first two days, regular matzah is fine.
Though I'm sure this conversation is fascinating (to those who can follow it, at least), I think we're getting a bit far afield here - are you really sure this sort of Halachic issue is germane to Subtalk? (I know, I contributed earlier, so it's kind of the pot calling the kettle black, but still . . .) :-)
Regards,
subfan
Instead of taking it to e-mail, post it to another board and post a link.
It's not jibberish; it's authentic Yinglish.
No, it's halachah to eat a kazayis of shmurah matzah at the Sedorim. After that, non-shmura matzah may be eaten. Although eating shmurah matzah the entire Pesach is not mandatory, many Poskim hold that, whenever possible, one should eat only shmurah matzah the entire Pesach.
I would be unwell soon. I find Shmurah Matzah to be much less desirable to the taste than generic matzah.
Unbaked flour mixed with water that has sat out for more than 18 minutes is assumed to have "soured," that is "hametz" and is prohibited on Passover. You can't undo hametz.
As someone above mentioned, adding egg or fruit juice to the mix makes the matza "rich." Some feel this makes for a fluffier matza. In addition to the "richness," some authorities believe that egg or juice accelerates the souring process, therefore the "use only if necessary" warning.
It's not the matza that's guarded, but the grain or flour.
I've heard that some people will not use machine made matza at the seder as one must bake the matza with "intent" and machines don't have intent.
To bring this thread back on topic, just spent 2 days with my folks in Borough Park and took my wife on a walk around the nabe. Showed her the Guastavino tiles at Ft Hamilton Pkwy (D line) and the former theater that someone pointed out last week. There are no operating theaters in BP at this time, but being that this one is reputedly intact, and that the neighborhood is now enjoying an influx of Poles, Asians and Mexicans, could it one day re-open?
I came across the following in the June 1982 of ERA's New York Division Bulletin, and I quote...
In 1941 and 1942, several 1300, 1400, and 1500 series cars were sold to the New York City Department of Sanitation. The cars were rebuilt into cabins for employees at a health lodge called "Sanita" and located at Holmes, N.Y. At 159 St. Yard the cars were equipped with sinks, stoves, bathroom, and sleeping facilities. The gates and grill work on the open platforms were replaced by a standard wooden porch railing and the cars were painted in light pastrel shades of blue. The net result was an attractive looking cottage.
I sure wish there had been more information available.
I still have them all except for one year.
Karl: There was an update on Camp Sanita in an issue of the bulletin a few years back that stated that three cars(cabin) were still there.
I was over there about two years ago and while I couldn't view the entire areas local residents said that all were gone. When I find the issue I'll post the info.
The camp was located alongside the tracks of what is today called the Beacon Line of Metro-North but in those days it was the Maybrook Branch of the New Haven.
Best Wishes, Larry,RedbirdR33
Karl: I found the article. It is in the August 2000 issue of The Bulltein.
There were 94 cars and the camp was situated on Lake Whaley. Soem of them were made into dormitories for boys. Twenty of so cars served as sleeping quarters, toilet facilites and recreation rooms.
Other cars were converted to family quarters called "Pullmanettes". These cars had a master bedroom at one end,kitchen quarters in the middle and a two-berth child's bedroom and a bathroom at the other end.
The Sanitation Department ran the camp until 1956 when the property was donated to the Boy Scout's. By then 76 cars remained. In 1999 three cars were left but heavily vandalized the others were destroyed by a suburban housing developement.
I was over there two years ago and didn't see any remaining but I didn't get to look at the area as well as I would have liked.
Larry,RedbirdR33
You should have made it clear they were IRT cars. From the numbers you gave, most folks would have though "BU's".
Weren't most, if not all IRT El cars converted to MUDC? That did away with gates.
The BU's were all gate cars.
Incidently, there were never any 1500 series BU's until the C types were created, and they technically were no longer gate cars.
Where were IRT Gate cars used, and until when.
All the 1930's shots of the 2nd & 3rd Av els show MUDC's only.
Did they get rid of them when 6 AV was abandoned?
Living in the Monumental City, my knowledge of the NYC El's is pretty lacking.
I know from experience that they were used in express service on the 3rd Av el up till about 1950.
Crew requirements for gate cars took more than MUDC's, so seems strange IRT would use them on expresses. It would make more sense to use gates on the locals and MUDCs on the expresses.
A 6 car gate train needed a motorman, a conductor and 2 gatemen. A 6 car MUDC needs only a motorman and a conductor. So, what do you do with the 2 extra men off-peak?
Of course, what transit companies do does not always make sense.
In Brooklyn, a six car gate train of BU's on the Fulton-Lex Line needed a motorman, a conductor and four gateman. There had to be a gateman at each set of platforms between cars. Passengers were not permitted to board or leave from the front platform of the first car or the rear platform of the last car. Six car trains were only run during rush hour. Off rush gate trains were only three cars.
All the 1930's shots of the 2nd & 3rd Av els show MUDC's only.
Did they get rid of them when 6 AV was abandoned?
Living in the Monumental City, my knowledge of the NYC El's is pretty lack
Dan: Without going into exact detail there were about 1800 gate cars built for the IRT and about 475 (+/-) of these were converted to MUDC. This was in addtion to the 470 Composites that were also running there. Whenever possible (nights,weekends) the IRT would run the MUDC in place of the Gates to save manpower. As the elevated lines were abandoned and car requirements lessened the MUDC's saw more use. However the Gates held on almost until the end because the Composites were dropping like flies. The Gates outlasted the Composites and were removed from the Third Avenue El when the Q's came over in the early fifties. A few Gates continued to operate on the #9 Dyre Avenue Local until about 1955 or 56 when Hi-V's took over.
Most of the MUDC's were high-voltage cars but about 80 or so had been converted to low-voltage and some of these lasted up until 1956
when Steinways were assigned to the 3 Avenue El in The Bronx.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Do any pics fo gates on 3Av exist? Seems logical that the fans would take picture of gate trains, especially in 1955/56. Did any IRT Gate train fantrips run?
I don't think I've ever seen a IRT gate train shot. There's lots of BU shots.
It's like a "missing shot" problem we have in Baltimore. There are 100's of shots of MU (streetcar) trains on our 26 line, which served the spawling Bethlehem Steel plant at Sparrows Point.
The cars used were a group of cars built by the Emergency Fleet Corporation for The United Railways in 1918 and numbered in the 5800 series. There were also a smaller group that were built in 1906 and rebuilt for use on 26. These were numbered 5181-5206. These were all Brill Semi-Convertibles, and were nicknamed "Red Rockets" by riders and crews. They were fast cars.
The 5800's had air doors, the 5100's had manual doors.
Every shot I've seen, every shot published showing a two car train with a 5100 and a 5800 in a train shows the 5100 leading.
At Sparrows Point there was no loop (until 1950) and a southbound train with a 5100 leading would have the 5800 leading when the train was reversed there.
I have never seen a picture of a 26 line train with a 5100 trailing. Ever.
**********************************************************************
Engineer asleep on speeding train
He admits missing signals, Amtrak says. His train nearly hit a CSX train.
April 02, 2004
By Sue Weibezahl
Staff writer
An Amtrak train traveling at 76 mph with 128 passengers came within 400 yards
of crashing into a freight train in February because the engineer fell
asleep, Amtrak officials said.
The train
would have continued on into the 105-car CSX train hauling hazardous chemicals
if
the computer system on board the Amtrak train hadn't automatically sensed
there was no driver in control and applied the brakes, officials said.
Amtrak recently concluded its investigation into the incident near Kirkville
about 5 p.m. Feb. 20. The Amtrak train was heading from New York City to
Niagara Falls.
"It was human error," spokesman Dan Stessel said Thursday after a hearing
earlier in the week, "and that employee no longer works for Amtrak."
He refused to identify the engineer or say how many years he'd been working
for the company.
The engineer reportedly admitted during a hearing in mid-March that "the
signals were missed because he wasn't giving his full time and attention, and,
in
fact, was asleep," Stessel said.
"Obviously, any type of incident of a safety concern is important to us,"
said Warren Flatau, spokesman for the Federal Railroad Administration, which is
expected to release its own report on the incident early next week.
That report will not include recommendations or penalties, he said.
"It will be just a factual account of the date, the location, the probable
cause and contributing factors," Flatau said.
The trains are equipped with a so-called "dead-man's switch"
to ensure that if an engineer becomes incapacitated, either because he's
fallen asleep or has suffered a medical emergency, the brakes are automatically
applied.
The switch beeps every 20 seconds and the engineer has to acknowledge it by
making a movement to indicate he's alert.
If he fails to do that, the "little beep becomes more rapid, then louder and
louder. If it's still ignored, the brakes are applied," Stessel said.
"I can make the comparison with a snooze alarm. When he was hitting it, it's
that kind of daze you're in where you're conscious but not really conscious."
This engineer missed three track-side signals in a four-mile stretch warning
him to slow down and switch tracks. He apparently fell completely asleep as
the train continued to barrel down the tracks at 76 mph. The train slowed only
when the computer applied the brakes, waking the engineer.
The conductor, who was inside the passenger section of the train, taking
tickets, could not see the signals from those windows, Stessel said.
It's rare that engineers miss signals, Stessel said. They go through six
weeks of training to learn what each signal means and only travel on routes
they're familiar with, "so they know where the signals are, when the speed
limits
change and where the curves on the track are."
"He'd made this trip many, many times before," Stessel said.
The signals warn engineers about oncoming trains and the need to reroute to
alternate tracks.
The engineer was tested for drugs or alcohol, but those tests were negative,
said Stessel. No criminal charges will be filed against the engineer, he said.
Amtrak officials "want to express our thanks to CSX for their assistance and
taking some of the heat for this early on," Stessel said.
Rep. James Walsh, R-Onondaga, has asked for a hearing to review the safety of
the Upstate railway system, but that has not been scheduled yet.
From Syracuse.com
>>>>It was human error," spokesman Dan Stessel said Thursday after a hearing
earlier in the week, "and that employee no longer works for Amtrak." <<<<<
Man.. Can you imagine losing that job? Talk about losing a good paying job. Who's going to hire this guy? Walmart?
Sealy.
Your pal,
Fred
This guy was, until recently, an FRA certified engineer. He may or may not have been decertified as a result of the incident. I can see a shortline or even a freight road putting him to work, after he completes re-training and re-certification. The punishment is that he'll have to work his way up the seniority ladder again. It's not uncommon for guys like this to find their way back into the workforce. They are not any less safe than any other, unless they were persistently this way or have some kind of a substance abuse problem.
Who ever said that AMTK was a classy operator?
: ) Elias
Vince
Mike, looks like the article said the active deadman saved the day. I am really amazed by how effective the deadman's pedal is. I think this is a case for celebration of a safety device working as intended. I don't think he was "treating it like a snooze button"; in fact he offered the deadman beat no response, hence the brakes being applied.
AEM7
This was a real close shave.
Could there be more control given to the signals, say a wireless signal that slows down/stops the locomotive if a signal is passed? I realize this happened on a non-electrified line so it's not just a matter of shutting off power to regulate the train movement.
Your pal,
Fred
When the alerter was facing an abslute red block, it (I am guessing here) would no longer accept the engineer's silencing of the alarm, and went BIE on him. Had the engineer applied brakes, that may have appeased the chips of the alerter.
Elias
http://www.ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/2001/R01_6.pdf
"At one time, the Chicago main line was equipped with an intermittant ATS system designed to automatically apply air brakes and stop the train should the engineer not acknowledge the audible alarm within a few seconds of passing a restrictive aspect... so long as the engineer pushes a button or turn a lever to acknowledge and silence the system, the ATS does not activate."
OK -- I can see reasons for allowing the engineer to control the braking when passing APPROACH signals... but a STOP signal cannot be passed at anything more than 15mph. So I want to know the rationale for not enforcing a STOP if the speed is over 15mph. In the old days, the problem was technical, in that the ATS system cannot accurately sense the train's speeds. But nowadays that's not an issue. So why is ATS systems still specified in this way? Are there other reasons not to give a penalty brake application if the train moved at more than 15mph past a STOP signal?
AEM7
Simple answer? Amtrak has no money for "optional" safety improvements.
The alertor will sound when the train passes a more restrictive signal than the signal before it. The alertor will go off after passing "approach medium" if the previous signal was better than "approach medium" which would be "clear."
Michael
Washington, DC
If what you say is true, this is a problem. It means the meaning of the alertor is ambiguous. It could either mean:
(1) Are you awake? It's been 20 seconds.
(2) You just passed a signal, you gotta slow down.
The failure mode is when a sleepy engineer thinks they are kicking off the alertor for the 20 second gap when in fact they've just missed a restrictive aspect.
Of course, this issue does not apply in this case, since the train was outside cab signal territory therefore the alertor beep could have only the first meaning.
AEM7
Michael
Washington, DC
The alertor will sound when the so called "upside-down canoe" (a trackside magnetic coil thing) is energized (or de-energized as the case may be, I don't know it's specifics of operation). The canoe is set to tripping mode whenever the corresponding wayside signal is not CLEAR. There are some cab videos of an Amtrak California train where the ATS operation can be observed, you can try to google for them.
Here is a picture of such a device on the SJLR. In this case however I suspect that they do indeed enforce a positive stop on the light rail vehicles.
Alertor is the correct terminology. on BR it is called an active deadman (which required resetting every minute). The Amtrak version may well have a 20-second delay, but the Amtrak version is reset by making any changes to the control, e.g. throttle, brake, or even looking at the ampmeter by using the GE computer (which has a screen that you have to touch to get the ammeter readings to come up). So the deadman never goes off if you are in active control (e.g. constantly changing your dynamic brakes).
I didn't see a big red button in a GE, but then my memory might have failed also. Big red button on the Green Line is global BIE, and I might be confusing the two.
The article said that the engineer had been dozing for some time, canceling the alertor semi-automatically like one would a snooze, it only stopped the train after he totally conked out,
The alertor was functioning as designed, and saved the day.
I was only pointing out that, just like someone falling dead onto the deadman, the alertor system is not completely foolproof either. The engineer was not in a very wakeful state, yet still managed to not trigger the sleep detection system until tragedy was almost upon him.
I was going to mention the one-man operation that might have been a contributory factor in the 2004 near miss, but I thought that might stir up some sentiments. Now I know that the issue has already been examined and it appears that double-manning is just too expensive. Certainly the experience on British Rail is that double-manning is rarely helpful, but the BR network has an AWS (primitive cab signal) system that would alert the engineer when a restrictive signal aspect is passed.
Does anyone know what the indicator lights represent on the exterior of the LIRR double-decker C3's? I have seen two separate vertical rows of lights. From top to bottom, one row by the doors are (blue or green, amber, red, white and maybe another green) I think? The other row by the cab window has (red, white & amber) possibly?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks to all.....
It's been a while since I've been on a C3, but I seem to remember that there are red and green lights inside the car that function like that. Certainly not on the outside.
Mark
2) A rhyme: I was ___ in 1992.
3) Another rhyme: We wish to foil the dreadful ___.
(vandalism).
4) If vandals discovered the vandal shield, all the shield would be ______ (but thank god they haven't)!
5) If only STUBways existed, SubTalk would be ________!
I hope you have fun answeing. :)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Jimmy ;p
4) The answer was "peeled".
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
But what I REALLY want to know is this: What the heck are pantograph gates made of? Unprotected sheet metal? Carbon steel? There has GOT to be some kind of explanation for why pantograph gates rust. Someone PLEASE tell me!!!!!!!!! TIA.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Why? I am not sure, but I suspect that the process that makes stainless steel (the addition of nickle, i believe) also makes it more brittle and more susseptible to cracking in the rough treatments that these gates receive.
While all steel does have its limits, carbon steel is more ductile and will bend first rather than crack.
Leastwise, this is my guess.
Elias
If a truck on a heavy rail vehicle is making a vibration -- strong enough to be felt with feet if you were sitting down, and the vibration is making some of the interior fitting handles/tubes jiggle (more so than the usual rail-riding or wheel-flat caused vibration), what kinds problem might be on the trucks or carbody?
It's not a wheelflat; that gives a kind of periodic banging noise. This particular vibration was like a continuous vibration.
The vibration is most marked at high speeds, and seem to occur only in one truck out of the two that was on that vehicle, and occurs when speeds is over about 20 mph. Also, one telling fact was that the vibration stopped despite the high speed running through a left hand curve (which suggests to me that the suspected defect is on one side of the truck).
I had reported this fact to the T/O, who called it into control; I ask here because I want to know if this is a problem and/or unusual, and whether I had wasted the dispatcher's time by reporting this fact.
AEM7
Traction motor bearing failure (very early stages).
Flexible (motor) coupler failure
Vertical shock absorber failure or spring failure.
Gearcase suspension bolt problem (rubber cushion problem)
Low speed bearing failure.
These would be the most common causes of what you describe. None of them are catostrophic although they should not be ignored. Of course there is the remote possibility that what you felt could have been foreign such as debris wedged in the truck or even a catostrophic truck failure such as a cracked frame (extremely rare these days). Hope this gives you some insight.
Because Jeff H asked, the car class was MBTA 01800, Bombardier Type 3.
if it were a similar wheel defect called "spotted wheels" with flat spots (usually 1" or less) around the entire circumference of the wheel
How do these "spotted wheel" occur? I've certainly seen multiple flats on the same wheel, but my understanding was that braking on slippery rail is likely to cause a single flat, and once a flat develops, the wheel is more likely to slide at the point where the "first" flat started making it worse and worse. So for a wheel to become spotted it would have required a wheelslip control system to be constantly "flapping" (apply/release/apply/release) the air, combined with a very slippery rail condition, I guess?
or even a catostrophic truck failure such as a cracked frame (extremely rare these days).
Of course, with improved machining/casting technologies, and the fact that the stock is only 10 years old, would suggest that a catastrophic truck failure is unlikely. Thanks for your guesses -- they are informative, and I think that to ask for any more detail would require an fitter actually riding the car or looking under it.
AEM7
Wheel spotting is caused by a wheel intermittantly locking and releasing while the train is moving. Spotted wheels can occur for many reasons. Most often it is due to an improper braking condition - air over dynamic - where the air brake and dynamic brake each try to brake the wheels at the same time. This can be caused by a malfunctioning contactor in the control group or a bad lockout magnet valve. Grease on the rail can also contribute to intermittant wheel-slip and spotted wheels.
As to what Clayton spotted (next post in the thread) the shoe head is able to pivot so it may appear that the shoe is mis-aligned. It lines up quickly once the shoe contacts the wheel, however. A hint that the brake shoe is not aligned properly would be uneven wear of the brake shoe. The shoe is obviously softer than the wheel.
Not too long ago, there was a lot of squawking from Beacon Hill residents about the noise level produced by these trains as that subway passes under this neighborhood. As this is the same ritzy area that John Kerry lives in, the T set up a program to have these wheels checked more often.
The ATO dumps the train!??? That's the first I've heard of it. I'm sure you are correct; it just strikes me as surprising since the 01800 ATO seems to work the dynamic right down to about 5mph before I even hear any of the friction brakes kick in. I guess there is something special about Charles/MGH -- what is it?
The situation you describe, I think, is what is leading to the "persistent" wheelflats that I hear all the time (to the extent that I don't mention it to anybody unless I think the flat is so bad that there is a risk of fracture -- but given your musing about the soft alloy, I am thinking that such fractures are very unlikely also). These persistent flats can't be very good for the track, nor the suspension...
If Train Dude is right about this vibration being a "spotted wheel", then maybe there really is a problem with dynamic/friction blending controls on that unit. If it's just yet-another flatwheel, then I guess nothing needed to be done until the next inspection.
Not too long ago, there was a lot of squawking from Beacon Hill residents about the noise level produced by these trains... the T set up a program to have these wheels checked more often.
The T probably also saved itself a hell of a lot of track maintenance in the process! Maybe someone should do some studies to see just to what extent a flat wheel can destroy a rail. The experience on the Wisconsin Central in the late 1990s suggested that, at least for a heavy haul railroad and old rail, it's a big issue.
AEM7
Traditional speedometers sense the speed by counting axle rotations. If the wheels are locking up, then that speedometer won't work. How does the ATO sense speed? By a ground radar?
Admittedly it is rare for all axles to lock up at the same time on a heavy rail consist, so perhaps an adjacent car would provide the speed readings.
In Green Line Bredas, there is an issue with this; the braking software needs to know the rate of deceleration to determine whether to use disc, track, or rheostatic brakes. It derives the information from the internal speedo, which is based on wheel rotations. When the wheels lock up, it "guesses" the speed by assuming the deceleration continues at the last-measured rate. If the speed still cannot me measured after a certain amount of time, it fails safe into an enhanced braking mode (I'm not sure if the track brakes would be deployed or not in those situations).
Here is an interesting point: the ratio sensed in New Tech is always constant but not wheel diameter. These trainsets determine dynamic/pneumatic braking from constantly monitored performance based upon software. Undercar inspection results go far beyond measuring wheel diameter...the trainset knows where it is by knowing how many inches are traveled in one rotation along with its speed. As the wheel diameter gets smaller, the trainset thinks it's going farther and faster. We reprogram wheel size to compensate. Anti-lock and traction control are possible along with regeneration but like Breda, there are 'issues.' I'm doing R68s now and they're calling, "Send me to the ocean where I can swim with the Redbirds." CI Peter
I've been on the 01800s for all of about 3 station stops, and I
seem to recall I found the ride choppy.
What did you mean by ride "choppy"? Like start-and-stop with too high a rate of change in acceleration (also called "PATCO braking", name after the Budd-built subway cars' automatic train control system which only turns power and brake either ON or OFF with no intermediate blending)?
AEM7
Nope. Boston T Party was right when he said ATO. Red Line has cab signals and civil speed enforcement, therefore for the 01800s the T/O's are trained to always drive the train on maximum power (except for station stops, where they are taught to brake on maximum service brake). The computer cuts the power when maximum authorized speed is reached. A Red-Line train is never supposed to be coasting except when the computer issues a "coast" command. "Coast" command is almost never issued because most of the Red Line has some kind of gradient and the train is always braking (regeneratively) or accelerating.
Because of the T/O's accelerating on maximum power, standing starts and station stops are always going to be jerky. I'm not sure why they are taught to operate on maximum power.
Incidentally, the ATO system has 6 codes: 0,5,10,20,40,50; the older units (01500-01600) supported 8 codes, with 15,18 being additional. The signal system never issues anything other than the top 6. The 50 code is rarely issued north of Columbia Ave, although I think I might have seen the 50 code once or twice between Harvard and Porter.
AEM7
So which systems would you say have ATO? Even BART has manual control of doors. WMATA I think the T/O is still required to operate the doors. And both of them have manual modes where (is or isn't) speed enforcement. (In fact wrecks have happened on WMATA while in both manual and ATO modes.) Maybe I am adopting a more railroad definition of the term, where you can have cab signals without positive speed enforcement (like on the Northeast Corridor south of New York), and I'd term that manual operation with cab signals. Cab signals with speed enforcement, like PATCO, MBTA Red Line, I suppose, could be called 'ATC' to differentiate it from the 'ATO' where even the stations stops are done automatically.
I've always called it ASC -- Automatic Speed Control. And I though that's what the T calls it too.
All I know is that when the thing stops working, it's called an "ATO failure"; on the maintenance report it shows up as an "ATO defect". I guess the transportation & maintenance departments call it ATO. Whether the signal dept. calls it ATO or not... well, I guess that's up to them, and I can see the point of it not being real ATO, but, well, it's still ATO to me. Now I see what Boston T Party means when he says "Boston definition".
AEM7
AFAIK, in San Francisco and DC, the doors will open automatically.
The operator is required to give the door close command and then
hit a button to allow the train to start.
AEM7
torque
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin torquEre to twist
1 : a force that produces or tends to produce rotation or torsion torque to the drive shaft>; also : a measure of the effectiveness of such a force that consists of the product of the force and the perpendicular distance from the line of action of the force to the axis of rotation
2 : a turning or twisting force
If you want to know the meaning of more words, here is the site to do it at.
But when is she going to finally loose her Conrail blue coat ?
How fast do they go?
Why are they're door motors better?
Your observations?
Why are they're door motors better?
I don't know, but some of them suck. Alot of trains have doors that only one half opens. BTW, the windows are FRA standards.
Your observations?
I take it every day, and I would like to see screens at stations that tell approximately when the next train comes. Instead of the subway, they don't come every 5 mins or so. They take like 20-30 mins per train. It sucks because you have to just stand on the platform forever, and if you knew, you would be able to go get something like coffee. This would be especially good for commuters. Otherwise, the scenery along the route is pretty nice, and its free.
To see an example of a station, CLICK HERE.
-Chris
Staten Island is a burb as far as I'm concerned. You're lucky the MTA even gives you a train since this line would have been dicontinued if it were NJ Transit. It is highly underutilized and the MTA can't run empty trains every five or ten minutes.
The only thing I dislike about the service is the fact that they won't allow bicycles during rush hour like the 4 or 6.
I figured that they were able to go about 45mph as the max.
Regards,
Jimmy
Not TWU, BLE.
Any idea what they could have been up to?
Dave Mewhinney posted a large number of Baltimore streetcar photos on his site, here:
http://www.davesrailpix.com/btc/btc.htm
Scroll down to the "Frank Pfuhler collection." There's some neat stuff, some in color and some in b&w. There are also some photos of the museum cars in storage in a barn that doesn't appear to have overhead wire (see photo below). Where would this have been? And what's #4732?
Frank Hicks
That's the back of Irvington Car House, which was cut off from the active tracks by the loop that was installed when PCC's were assigned to the 8 line in 1939. The tracks behind the loop were accessed with temporary track to "jump" over the loop track, which was installed over the barn tracks.
Remember, like all the Balimore barns, Irvington was built for double end cars.
As to 4732, that's 417 today.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3284949854&category=413
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
John
I got news for you, tunneling under the English Channel through the chalk and clay is a completely different can of worms compared to granite of Manhattan Island. It took the contractors that did the two tunnels for WMATA on the Red line A Route between Rock Creek park south of Van Ness (A06) to Pooks Hill Road north of Medical Center (A10) over 7 years to do with the same machine, and the bedrock in this part of Washington area is softer to boot then is the granite of Manhattan Island.
John
Be a good boy,and Santa may put one in your Christmas stocking.
I don't know if there are any projects that could use one. Besides, the listing says it's no longer fully operable.
Til' next time,
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
#3 West End Jeff
I wonder how the highest bidder will get this
There's more to the site than just Bus/Subtalk ;-).
R38: Sides fluted up to window level (from floor level), headlamps and taillamps do not bulge out as much as they do on R32s/R32As, each headlamp/taillamp set on one panel for each side, TA logo on blind frontal panel adjacent to T/O's window, roller sign roof housing from pre-GOH is on sign bonnet, w/ the route sign in that roof housing.
Next;
R44: "Windbreaker glass" partitions at door openings, found on (A) and (S) Rockaway Park Shuttle routes only.
R46: No "windbreaker glass" partitions at door openings, found on (E), (F), (G), (R), (V) routes only.
-Ben Diaond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Thats kinda rare, right? BUT possible.
P.S.-Ben Diaond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
It's Diamond right? Ahh, who cares, we all make mistakes.
I know you like those troll pics, but heres a good one.
Its a photo of DefJefs Family (or just him and his FRIENDS)
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
And remember Chris: No matter how many times I may accidentally leave out a letter in my name, I will always be a Diamond. :P
"R46:(E)????????"
Yes. I DID as a matter of fact see an R46 train on the (E) a few times. A few of them run on the (E), but the line is still dominated by R32s and R32As.
The troll pics--Keep up the stand-up comedy, man! ROFLMAO! ;D
I don't think that R32s are referred to as R32 and R32A anymore. When they went out for their overhauls, they ended up going out mixed together. So the R32's that went first were referred to as Phase I and those that went second were Phase II's.
I don't remember what the differences were between R32 and R32A's. And I don't know what the differences are between R32 Phase I and Phase II, If there are any at all.
"The R-32s had thin light lines and the standard louvered fan grills. The R-32As came with light canopies which could serve to backlight advertising signs. The fan grills were also different. From a technical standpoint, the R-32As came with Westinghouse Propulsion Packages while the R-32s came with GE SCM controllers."
A question (probably for Train Dude): can the R68 and R68A run together in the same consist?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
GOD DAMN IT! Just because a person is older than you doesn't mean he's better than you. Yes, Train Dude can answer that better because he's a TA employee and has experience, but NOT because he has more frequent orbital miles than you.
I'm not Train Dude and I answered that better than you.
Remarkably though, the arnines got along famously, and in mixed GE/W they weren't so bad either. I'll never forget taking out a set of 16's, 27/30's and 42's though. That was a TRUE handful that I was glad to not ever repeat again. A runner up for bad handling was a consist of 32's and 34's ... the 11's (errr, 34's) just DIDN'T want to stop. (grin)
Peace,
ANDEE
But I remember some (what I thought was ONLY) 42's as a rider and conductor and some were smooth as a baby's butt, others bucked worse than a set of artens ... that'd explain it.
Mind ya, "compatibility" is a RELATIVE term in RTO ... "compatible" means that you can bang 'em together and RUN 'em if you needed to, but despite the official "specifications" of SMEE, each carbuilder IMPLEMENTED it differently. SMEE specs were about trainlines, braking curves, acceleration curves and a snootful of other technowetdream that only irritated the geese. (grin)
As a "whole fleet" *ALL* cars were designed to have similar PERFORMANCE, be brakeline compatible, be trainline compatible, be PERFORMANCE compatible. Not so much to create Frankentrains as much as it was the ability to do a RESCUE of another train if it ever became necessary. The "teeyay" had BAD experiences trying to deal with stalled trains that happened to be VD's (Van Dorns like the old Q cars ) or H2A's which weren't compatible with H2B's or H2C's (then they REALLY went off the wall with those funky 44 jobbies and blew the whole concept) ... so for example, when I stalled on the bridge as I mentioned the other day, the set of 32's behind me couldn't do diddle. They had to back that one out, get another Arnine set behind me and only THEN could we move.
While the couplers were similar, the air system and the electric portion were RADICALLY different. Make contact, and BLAM. :)
While things got MUCH saner with the postwar cars (you COULD push a 42 with a 10 and it would FLY, and in fact artens DID get mixed on a Frankentrain or two with 42's!) each different car order (and each VENDOR within a specific car class as RandyO pointed out) each produced the "detailed specifications" of the car order, but each in a slightly DIFFERENT way. While they all met SPEC, they weren't IDENTICAL. As a result ...
RIDE 'EM COWBOY! YEE-HAH! :)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
R38: Sides fluted up to window level (from floor level), headlamps and taillamps do not bulge out as much as they do on R32s/R32As, each headlamp/taillamp set on one panel for each side, TA logo on blind frontal panel adjacent to T/O's window, roller sign roof housing from pre-GOH is on sign bonnet, w/ the route sign in that roof housing.
Next;
R44: "Windbreaker glass" partitions at door openings, found on (A) and (S) Rockaway Park Shuttle routes only.
R46: No "windbreaker glass" partitions at door openings, found on (E), (F), (G), (R), (V) routes only.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Read about it here
Your pal,
Fred
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Alan Follett
Hercules, CA
Did that feature work well during the blackout?
Today I was trying to install BVE on my new Pentium 4 Laptop. When I download it from the official site is says the compressed folder is like in an invalid language.
I am a big fan of BVE and I would appreciate it if someone could help me with this problem.
Thanks,
flushing7
WinXP does not have a DOS mode, only a dos emulator, with a very limited set of commands.
Get out your system disk and use you search command to look for a program called "apcompat". It can tease a program into believing that it is loading on its expected operating system. (Even then DOS is not on the list.)
Elias
ROFLMAO
Keeps anti-kludge application designers in business, eh?
: ) Elias
Try downloading it again. The file may have just been corrupted when you d/l'd it, nothing big maybe.
if this doesn't work, are you downloading an .exe file or a .zip?
Here's what I suspect (I point it out only in hopes that it will help others) - Most programs want to install to the proper "Program Files" folder ... unless you are ADMINISTRATOR, XPee will NOT ALLOW installs to "Program Files" ... if your XPee box has you logging in as a "limited user" or under a name OTHER THAN "administrator" then this door is slammed in your face. Try creating a "BVE" folder instead of the normal install under "Program Files" ... that might work. Other forbidden places are the "windows" folder, the root level of the C drive and a few other locations. But most of all, XPee won't allow you to do an install if you're not the "owner" ...
Meanwhile, the worms and viruses shoot STRAIGHT in unimpeded ... :(
Just in case someone else searches the forums with the same problem.
If the former, then welcome to SubTalk! :)
(2)Get Winzip
WWW.winzip.com and install that on your computer and try and open it up with it. I think somethin the winzp compress folders stuff don't support some mattheds of the *.zip format so try it with that program and see what happeneds!
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
Much the same as it is in the USA. Railfans are guilty unless proven innocent - guilty, that is, of being sad weird geeky loners.
To prove your innocence, it helps to have an attractive partner and some well-adjusted children. When actually railfanning, it also helps if you don't wear an anorak, don't carry three large cameras around your neck, and don't write down in a notebook the fleet numbers of any rolling stock seen (8-) !
Parka for us Americans.
Early on a weekday morning, just prior to the rush:
1. A caller tells police at the 40th Precinct of a bomb at a 149 Street station (but does not specify the street).
2. A 12-9 happens on a Q train diverted to the Montague Tunnel at Whitehall heading northbound while being moved into the middle track because of construction in the N/B thru track (it had to be diverted because of a nasty carfire at the Manhattan foot of the Manhattan Bridge with fatalities).
3. A watermain break occurs at Briarwood-Van Wyck, flooding out the tracks there and down the Jamaica Line into Sutphin/Archer/JFK(and oh, by the way, the relay switch that turns around trains just after Union Turnpike is out of service for replacement, and track replacement is going on the northbound (going to Jamaica) express track at Union Turnpike).
4. A 42 Street shuttle train being moved into the northernmost shuttle track from the 7th Avenue track derails, and a 1 train being diverted to the N/B express track at 42 Street because of that derailment loses power after a bad arcing experience.
5. A track fire is noticed just before 23rd Street/Ely Avenue on the 53rd Street tracks. Problem is, the operator that reports it is a V train operator who notices it 450 feet after leaving the Queens Plaza station.
What would you do (including busstitution for stations without service and no alternative within 1500 feet?)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
(Of course, the above isn't serious, but it wouldn't affect me anyway, cause I live in Staten Island.)
To anyone who actually tries and finishes this, GOOD LUCK!
-Chris
Six inches. That's about the height of the railhead, possibly higher. Are you sure about that? If six inches of movement is really observed, I am surprised that nothing has derailed there yet.
I am thinking that there's no tie underneath this rail joint -- usually somewhere that has a tie underneath will not permit this amount of movement, unless the tie itself is sitting on mud and the mud isn't offering any support at all. I mean I've seen rail movements and sometimes with a heavy coal train it can sag quite a bit where you have poor drainage and/or ballast support, but six inches sounds quite extreme. That's about 1/6 to 1/8 the diameter of the wheel!
Orange paint would indicate that they had already looked at it, but it seems strange that it would be in service in this state, if your observations are accurate.
This condition of "pumping" is caused by the ties going bad (in
type II track) or ballast settling (type I). You may see a bunch
of tie plates and rubber shims wedged under the area to help
support the joint.
Mark
Probably a bit of both.
But when you think about it - it is better to err on the side of safety. There are plenty of nuts out there - foreign and domestic.
The box contained old clothes.
Mark
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Thanks Victor.
-Chris
Would this be a good thing for the MTA to offer on selected lines or would the e-mail traffic be too heavy.
I think it would be a great service.
Opinions?
Still, the fact that they could do it for one part of the MTA means that eventually some other part of the MTA may have the same idea (like how LIRR finally started offering WebTicket years after Metro-North).
Ithink a lot of people would appreciate it, as long as the TA doesn't sell the email list to spammers.
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
PS, Ive tried sending cake through the email... I tried to scan it with the printer, which that is broken, and I do believe my Comp's tower is covered in chocolate. Oh well, object Dis-assembly is only another 30 years away! yeech, what a mess.....
Hippo Birdie Two Ewe!
Today was Br. Mark's birthday, he would have been 94, but he died two weeks ago, and so just didn't make it.
Have a happy birthday, and many good years to follow.
Elias
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The 4 local would make all stops(like now)
And the 4 express would stop at
Woodlawn
Mosholu Pkwy
(Switch to express track)
Burnside Av
149 St
125 St
then resume Lexington Av service
What do you think?
Astoria line is another example, Astoria Blvd/Hoyt Ave is an "express" stop. But 30th Ave and Broadway, being local stations, have more customers than the "Triborough Bridge" station.
Running conventional Express -- Local service does not appear to me to be doable on the Jerome. Sorry 'but that chief... that's just the way of the beast.
Now then, lend me your ear, and think about this: A 50/50 split of the line.
Burnside Avenue is the only "Express" station on the lion, and It has no good way to short turn trains there. So...
AM Rush:
(4) Express Makes Local Stops from Woodlawn to Burnside, then Express
(4) Local Burnside to 149th Street and then Express (Put in from yard via center track until all trains are out of the yard, and then trains turned from Woodlawn bingo to Burnside and then enter local service there)
PM RUSH:
(4) Express non stop 149th Street to Burnside Avenue, then Local to Woodlawn.
(4) Local All Stops 149th Street to Burnside then Non-Stop to Woodlawn. (Toward the end of the Rush Hour, Burnside becomes the last stop, trains are de-geesed, and sent to the yard via the center track)
Woodlawn continues to turn all the trains as it does now. No trains short-turn at Burnside. Only Late PM RUSH Trains are taken out of service at Burnside for return to the yards.
That is my Idea, and if you don't think it can work, then I don't think that the "express" track can be used efficiently at all.
Elias
125 St
149 St
Burnside Av
183 St
Fordham Rd
Kingsbridge Rd
Bedford Park Blvd(200 St)
Mosholu Parkway
Woodlawn
Of course this should really be done AFTER the SAS is built and has a branch going to Grand Concourse (not via 125th Street crosstown, but straight up having a stop and a new station at 161st Street-Grand Concourse). Some 4 trains now DO run express because they are packed in the AM rush and can't pick up anymore people. The (4) should be slightly quicker now that 167 St and Mt Eden Av are being skipped and later on 170 St and 176 St will be skipped.
The <4> can run for around 60 minutes at first then expand it's services if needed.
W Bwy
Peace,
ANDEE
Posted on:4/5/04 4:49:09 PM
Due to a customer injury at 116th St., Bronx bound 2 trains are running on the Lexington Ave line from Nevins St. to 149th St. Bronx bound 3 trains are being turned around at 96th St. and Manhattan bound 3 trains are being turned around at 148th St.
Eh! How can 3 trains turn around at the Northern Terminal of 148th st when they are in Manhattan to begin with, much less Bronx-bound 3 trains turning at 96th st, when 3 trains do not go to the Bronx? (unless for lay-ups at Unionport or East 180th st).
DUH!
This is a Northbound Number (3) Express Train to 96th Street.
All number (2) service is running on Lexington Avenue.
To catch a Number (2) train to the Bronx, please take a Southbound Number (3) train to Nevins Street in Brooklyn and change there for a Number (2) train to the Bronx.
We are sorry for this inconvience, and hope that you can cope with our "New Geography" untill we can sweep up the body parts of a fellow passenger who was unable to wait on the platform.
: )
I personally hope they have at least some stations with BMT-style mosaics, I just don't want them looking bland or not fitting in with the rest of the system.
There's a rendering on the MTA website. I'll try to find it for you.
The SAS stations will most likely look like the MTA's more recent station renovations, which have been esthetically attractive, and not merely utilitarian. Indeed, I believe the SDEIS specifically mentions the MTA's "Arts in Transit" program, which is their way of describing the platform art that you seen in recently-modernized stations.
The Archer Avenue line was built at the MTA's lowest ebb, from a design standpoint. Those stations were designed for functional utility only. I would not expect that mistake to be repeated.
You're responding to the wrong thread.
I'm thinking more in shape, not artwork. I'd fully expect the 2nd avenue stations to look like more modern systems' stations, like Los Angeles, or Atlanta. The Archer stations have this more open design.
As far as artwork and such, I'd not even begin to speculate.
AND NO MORE GRAND CENTRAL (7)S, EVER.
LOL, I saw that!
I think the SAS stations should have a look all their own and not recreate anything else on the system. OTOH, I think it'd be interesting and possibly humorous to take a squint at the original conceptual drawings from when the project was first proposed.
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
There is a design competition for the stations. One feature I would expect is a high ceiling with a mezzanine level open to the trains, as at 21st Street on the 63rd Street line, and in Washington DC. I prefer that design. Only 181st Street on the 1/9 and perhaps a couple of other deep tunnel stations have in the older sections of the system. Perhaps it goes with deep tunnels.
Also, I've seen the track diagrams on the mta site and they have island platforms, but the pictures I've seen of the actual tunnels have them running side by side. How would this allow for expansion for express tracks?
But there are no such plans.
Arti
David
BTW: Do the Harlem and Chinatown SAS sections enter into the SAS plans? I hate to admit I have yet to read the DEIS that's out on it, and a quick scan of the MTA's plans doesn't say whether the sections will be used.
Who knows, perhaps someday the "Chinatown" station from the Shallow Chrystie option and abandoned when Deep Chrystie was chosen will be to future Subtalkers what 76th St Station is now!
Here's the .pdf: http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/sdeis/figs-7.pdf You can see that at the northern section of the line there's a lot of exsisting structure, no doubt the tunnels dug in the 1970s.
Also, according to the Shallow Chrystie option the Chinatown section of tunnel would have been utilized, while the Deep Chrystie and Forsyth St options do not, digging under the exsisting tunnel instead.
Now for another question, what might be required to get the 1970s Harlem tunnels up to snuff for trains? I've seen djf79's pictures and read the articles about the tunnel. I see there are no tracks, no power systems, but there are ventilation systems. Would ventilation systems being installed be indicative of other systems, like power (that is the 600vdc train supply), and other systems. Obviously the tunnels haven't accumulated water in 25-30 years sitting down there so they must be pumped dry, which means there must be some power. I guess what I'm asking is, what would it take to make the tunnels work? A track crew followed by a signal crew and some people to put the stations together? Or would it require something more involved?
W Bwy
Or maybe Peachtree Center in Atlanta?
They changed them all last year. They just bring in an elevating platform [...]
[light bulb going on in my head :-)]
Aha! That's what they must have been doing when I stopped there sometime last year and it was so dark down on the platform that I couldn't get any pictures. I think I even remember a scaffold.
Probably not. The SAS will not be open before 2010 no matter what happens (maybe 2009). I think they'll start having the replacement for the R-44 coming in at that time.
The only info I've seen was on MTA's website, and It said that the 660 cars would replace cars from the R32-R42 classes. Saying that the R44's will definitely be replaced is a bit presumptous at this time. Unless you're privy to some information the rest of us have not yet heard of.
The R44's subpar maintenance record is relative. Compared to other cars like the R68, it's pathetic. Compared to the system as a whole 10-12 years ago, it's fantastic. No matter how well the R32's may run, they cannot escape their age. They were purchased in 1964 with a 35 year lifespan envisioned. They have exceeded that already and will run for many more years to come. Half the R32 fleet will need to be maintained into the middle of the next decade if the R44's are scrapped with no guarantee that funding for a post-R160 car fleet will exist at that time.
Ooops, that was supposed to say "era" not "error".
Look at history, stations usually reflect the error in which they were built or renovated.
Oh you mean the STATIONS of the SAS?
Good Question. I have no fucking clue, but I kinda hope that they're more thoughtfully and tastefully done than the BMT messes of yore. Places like Chambers St on the Nassau St Subway, DeKalb Ave and numerous other locations on the Badly Managed Transit system (not to mention that it inspired City Hall Station's layout here in Philly) were, and remain nightmares of pedestrian flow. They have narrow stairs, dimly lit passageways, or rather passageways which require too many lights to be lit adequately. Since lighting is just one of a myriad of ADA requirements, of which the 1920-40s BMT and early IND stations seemingly violate every one in some way or another, it's unlikely that the architects and engineers working to build the Stubway will even look to them for help.
I have nothing against mosaics, and I wouldn't mind seeing a throwback station design along the SAS at one of the more minor stations. However I think the major stations should borrow from the advances in crowd control that have come into use in the years since the BMT got out of the railroad business. Really the SAS designers probably should look to systems like BART, MARTA, the DC Metro, and Los Angeles for inspiration on station construction. I especially like the open, airy design of their stations. You could be 30-40 feet underground and feel like you're outside, it's so open. I'd also be willing to bet an open design would deter criminals and potential terrorists, since survellance would be made easier.
But really I just hope that they follow LU Jubilee Extension mold. Don't get just one architect for the whole system, but hire one per station, and make each station unique. The subway is as much a tourist attraction in NYC as the musuems, theaters and stores, and it'd be nice if they had a portion at least of the subway that could be shown for it's true, inborn beauty, not some afterthought art on a wall.
-Chris
Come to my grave and tell me about it when she is complete... okay? I will love to hear it.
For more information -- 6:42 p.m.
-Ben Diamond (aka 4traintowoodlawn)
Jimmy
Its transportation talk, to calm passengers.
Example:
Track condition=Broken rail
wayne
This map in white printing in a blue box in the top right hand corner states...
Free
2004
(Includes service changes
as of February)
Can I really say that for once I finally have a current map?
Coming Soon
A Special Centennial Edition of The Map
Now that's one I would surely like to have!
An anti-rail group called Trust in Transit has filed a statewide initiative that would force all voter-approved transit agencies to build roughly what they promise in those glossy pre-election brochures. "
I don't get it. They changed their promises to crappy alignments, so they should halt all in-progress construction and vote to continue or leave tracks laying around?
I'm glad these people dont' live in Florida. We have two high-speed rail laws on the books and no construction has started and both laws are violated. I don't think that means we should have to pick a third time.
Trust and transit
"Sound Transit admits that they cannot do the original plan that we voted for without a revote. They also claim that light rail is extremely popular. If so, Sound Transit should welcome a revote."
Huh, am I reading "1984"? Is this double speak?
And they link to these guys, whoever they are Notice a heading called "The 12-lane Myth", while LRT in Houston is carrying 5.5 lanes of people in 2 lanes of tracks. where's Edd handley and Randy O'Toole for this one?
As someone not from Seattle, I'm really tempted to email the info address and ask them what the double speak means, i don't get it. I want to see the answer.
And remember, today marks the 10th anniversary of Kurt Cobains demise. Reading this junk and dealing with that traffic, I dont' blame him.
That's like if i voted on a half cent tax to build more schools. instead of building schools they built playgrounds. Am I going to vote on the same initiative a second time, and waste my time or cancel it?
I think we know the answer.
As far as Washington taxes go, I don't know anything about that arena.
R1/9 R32 R38 R40S R21/22 R17 R15 R14 R12 R62
A A A A 1 1 1 1 1 1
AA AA/K AA/K AA/K 2 2 2 2 2 2
B B B B 3 3 3 3 3 3
CC CC/C CC/C CC/C 4 4 4 4 5 4
D D D D 5 5 5 5 7 5
E E E E 6 6 7 7 6
EE GG/G EE F 7 S 7
F H F GG/G S S
GG J/QJ GG H
HH LL HH/H
J/QJ/QB M J LL R62A R33WF R36WF R36ML
LL N LL M 1/9 7 1 1
M Q/QB M N 2 2 3
N R/RR N Q 3 3 4
RR SS/S(FS) QB/Q R 4 4 5
TT/T RR/R 5 5 6
R10 V SS(FS) V 6 6 7
A W W 7 7
AA/K S
B R68 R68A
CC/C D B
D N D
E Q Q R26 R28 R29 R33ML R142 R142A
F B W 2 2 1 1 2 2
GG S(FS) N 4 4 2 2 3 4
HH/H W 5 5 3 3 4 5
J F 6 6 4 4 5 6
L 7 7 5 5 6
M 6 6
N 7
RR
R16 R27/R30 R40M/42 R143
A A A L
AA AA/K AA/K M
B B B
E CC/C CC
EE D D
F F EE
GG GG E
J/QJ/QB H F
M J/QJ/QT/QB GG
N KK J/QJ/QB
RJ LL/L KK
RR M LL/L
LL N M
SS(FS) RR/R N
SS/S(FS) Q
TT/T RR/R
Z S(FS)
W
Z
R16 R27/R30 R40M/42 R143
A A A L
AA AA/K AA/K M
B B B
E CC/C CC
EE D D
F F EE
GG GG E
J/QJ/QB H F
M J/QJ/QT/QB GG
N KK J/QJ/QB
RJ LL/L KK
RR M LL/L
LL N M
SS(FS) RR/R N
SS/S(FS) X Q
TT/T RR/R X
X X W
XXZ
Now I wonder why there is so much space between the text and the table. Is there another code I have to enter to prevent such a thing?
-Julian
P.S.
Nice work on the table!
Also I forgot:
R44:
A,E,F,D,H
R46:
B,CC,D,E,GG/G,N,Q,RR/R,V
David
And Here are the ones that you didn't know about.
Elias
Still coming in April or May:
R-17 2-car work train add-ons 30-2273-3
R-17 4-car graffiti set 30-2391-1
R-17 2-car graffiti add-ons 30-2391-3
R-17 on flatcar 20-98364
R-17 workmotor on flatcar 20-98365
R-12 4-car set white or grey 30-2372-1 / 30-2373-1
R-36 Worlds Fair 2-car add-ons not shown on the schedule
I want to be able to switch trains between any of the loops or into and out of a common yard but I also want to be able to run 3-4 subway trains and 1 class 1 train at any time. My layout is roughly 16 X 22 with a seperate space for the yard facility 2'X 12'. If anyone has an idea for a layout or part of one, I'd be most interested. E-mail replies only, please.
I would hope that this would allow you to retain your existing layout and run it in a natural manner.
PS: I have no practical experience of how this works. I just looked at a couple of the web sites for train controller software. It looks like it’s a mature market and what you want is feasible.
You could set it up to run all of the trains you mention in full automatic mode, and then place one or more in manual, depending upon how many operators you have at a session.
Model Railroader magazine just finished a multi-part series on PC automation of a layout. It is an excellent source of ideas and advice.
Don't be thrown off if you have little or no programming or computer experience. It really isn't necessary.
As a side benefit, the hardware you have to add to automate the layout also provides the necessary sensors and controls for full, automatic, prototypical signalling.
What I started to build was a model railroad. I guess what I really want is a toy train layout where trains will operate on their own independent loops that are interconnected so equipment can be moved from loop to loop or from any loop to a yard.
It was a terrific layout and if you had a few more feet of space, I think it would be the answer to your problem. Even without the space you might be able to modify the track plan to suit your needs.
The original layout had a type of two track subway on one end which came out of the ground on the other end. In 1949 Lionel ran GG-1's and Irvington cars on the subway. Today's MTH subway sets would look terrific on it.
I may have a videotape of one of the replicas. If I don't, I think I know where I can get one.
It was replicated by modelers in Jackson MS in 1991, and taken down in 1994.
There is supposed to be a collector who is recreating the layout in his home and starting from scratch.
:-)
Disclaimer: Only one cow was actually harmed in the making of this photo essay, and that was a long time ago.
http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW.html
The Redbirds went.
The order was made.
The MTA spent.
The MTA made
off the money
the commuters paid
to stir some honey.
The 142's came in.
The dough went out
off to its fin(ish).
What was this about?
Bombardier knew.
They said, "These cars are new."
"Oh", said Mr. Kalikow.
"Then let's go call Kawasaki Co.!".
Kawasaki took the dough.
Kawasaki took the order.
Kawasaki did the body-O,
Vendors did the borders (the little gadgets).
Out came the 142A,
and when the MTA saw it,
they said, "HEY!"
That is a cool car!
So the MTA hired Kawasaki
to do the next order, the 143!
And it looks cool, too.
This poem was thought of and written by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn.
I hope you like it.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
BTW, are you any relationship to Bob Diamond (the former Trolley Mistro of Brooklyn?).
-Ben Diamond (who is not related to anyone on this board!) (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Why not trihydroacetalcannabinol?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
What blonde comes after Britney Spears ? Brittany Snow, from "American Dreams" ? Reese Witherspoon's daughter, or clone ?
Bicentennial woman ?
"DAMN! If only I had come up with this one five days ago, I would've caught mad people!"
Just mad people ? Why not go for mad phat slammin' breakin' people ?
And, above all, more articulate than Shakespeare !
On the 4th Avenue Subway scene, you saw a R-46 signed for "N" service, as well as R27-R30's signed for "RR" service.
Scenes date from late 1976.
Regards,
Jimmy
R-rated version is 119 minutes, is available on video and DVD.
Jimmy
R38 at beginning of opening credits: 3986
When Travolta (Tony) is in the station and he waits for the RR local, the pair he boards is 8338/9.
When he waits at 53 St, 8276 is laid up on the express track in the background.
The shots of Tony riding also have a brief glimpse of a 84xx (could tell).
Nice pic of an event that is likely to never occur again anytime soon.
The D, OTOH, is generally much emptier on weekends, and sending it local would provide CPW local stations with direct Concourse and 6th Avenue service.
On weekends, the A should remain express and the C and D should run local. The current D service pattern is based on half-century-old ridership trends; it should be updated to reflect the needs of the ridership of 2004.
P.S. You forgot that there are people voting in politicians that make sure they're keeping the D express in Manhattan. The people in the bronx make sure that our lines always don't get screwed.
As for your DC claims, I'm not going there. I and others have already proved you are wrong.
When using a commuter railroad, it's customary to check the schedule and show up when a train is scheduled to arrive. It's not reasonable to treat it like a subway service and just show up and wait for a train.
1. People along CPW have access to the 1,2,3,C trains. 4 Subway Lines within 2-3 avenues. And the 7th Avenue line parallels the A,C,E,D,F for most of it's route.
2. People along the Concourse have access to the 4 and D but the D and 4 go in seperate directions in Manhattan.
The D going down the CPW is a pointless, baseless thing. The D has ran express down CPW since it was created, helping bronx passengers get to the bronx and midtown faster. The effect of an express as a crowd controller is also quite effective.
The easist solution is to manage the C to make sure that the schedule is met. Most complaints are related that the C isn't frequent. When in actuality the C runs just as many trains as the D on weekends. Get the C working and working at it's working at it's headways and they wont be so content to complain.
I *do* understand the perspective of living on the upper West side. Been there, did that, ABC and MetroMedia paid the rent. DON'T SWOON, folks - it was the frigging RIVERSIDE TOWERS HOTEL. ARRRrrrrggggh! Owner of the Hotel ALSO owned a few radio stations AND the "Ritz Towers" as well on 57th and Park where Mr. Transmitter was at the time I lived there. :)
But I *get* the whining, I just have ZERO sympathy for it. You explain the value of an express in terms of time - THAT is marginal, and is a losing argument. MINE'S WORSE! Heh. The VALUE of an express is in the DISTANCE TRAVELLED *and* TIME SPENT ON THE DAMNED TRAIN. For someone who spends maybe 6-10 minutes TOTAL in "transport" ... those of us who lived deep in the outer boroughs could EASILY burn an hour each way doing the "teeyay shuffle" ...
And for those who can apparently AFFORD to live in midtown (72 Street, different view of where "midtown" is when looking south from the Bronx) BLESS you and your wonderful fortunes. The people who live further out TEND to have LESS money than others (I moved upstate because I couldn't afford to live in the BRONX! Heh) and thus end up in the outer boroughs on a purely economic necessity. TRUST ME here, if I could afford to live, even in the basement, in SUTTON PLACE, I would *so* be there and to HELL with the hour ride from Norwood or worse, some poor bastard who has to take three buses to GET to a train. :(
The VALUE of the express is reducing the time required, and perhaps MOST important to "upper X side residents," all us "PO pipple" get SAFELY whisked RIGHT PAST your neighborhoods without the possibility of us getting OFF our train and checking you out. Expresses! As Jerry Seinfeld said, "nothing WRONG with that." Would you REALLY like it if Unca Selkirk could get off the train and come knock-knock-knocking at YOUR door? Nay. =)
Moo.
I agree with that.
The CPW express saves approxametly 3 minutes, combined with the 34-4 express run it saves approxametly 10 minutes and hat is something.
10 minutes, I don't know about that and if a B beats the D to 59 St heading south, the net savings is 0, in fact it amounts to a negative savings and would be stuck behind the B until Dekalb so it could lose even more time. Express is needed obviously but it is overrated.
Also I will continue to call the Washington D.C. metro a pathetic system a system pumped with so much money, and yet it has 0 express service.
Maybe 4 track express service wasn't a priority at the time when they were building the system. Unless its unfeasible/unnecessary they could start new express service in certain places where there would be a need. I won't comment on the pathetic part.
They pay an arm and a leg for a system that doesnt operate a 24 hour system and that dies in cold weather and in storms.
If 24 hour service is desired, then the DC residents should make their voices heard.
10 minutes, I don't know about that and if a B beats the D to 59 St heading south, the net savings is 0, in fact it amounts to a negative savings and would be stuck behind the B until Dekalb so it could lose even more time.
The CPW run saves 3-4 minutes. So, the only way a D gets stuck behind a B is if it left 145th (125th) 3-4 minutes after that B train. Therefore, the only way you loose time would be if you let that B train go by.
BTW: I have no clue where Chris Rivera gets the notion that the run from 34th to 4th adds an additional 6 minutes of savings. I remember some expresses that saved no more than 1 minute over the local. But even if the 34th to 4th run DID save that much time, the CPW local ALSO uses that express track too.
Well, yes that would be the only way for the D to have a net savings of 0 minutes; or negative savings for that matter. Some folks should realize that the locals travel much faster than they think it does.
BTW: I have no clue where Chris Rivera gets the notion that the run from 34th to 4th adds an additional 6 minutes of savings. I remember some expresses that saved no more than 1 minute over the local. But even if the 34th to 4th run DID save that much time, the CPW local ALSO uses that express track too.
Exactly. I want to know how it is possible to save that much time myself.
Da Hui
Once you catch it, you will know what I mean. The car is on the south 4 of the trainset.
I'll be on the lookout for this car.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
http://community.webshots.com/user/neilf111
#3 West End Jeff
it was on the N not too long ago...is this the one that sounds like a "middle eastern music style" mismash of a drum/horn/elephant..it makes this noise instead of the ding dong...sounds like a death horn...
Jonathan
Seems like NYCT continues it's practice of bypassing the Sea Beach stations again.
This time, the West End line gets the royal treatment in a few years.
It's odd that the West End is getting its rehab ahead of the Sea Beach. The Sea Beach stations are in worse shape, from what I have seen.
A few excerpts which I find to be interesting:
The base contact duration will be approximately 20 months. The option (construction phase) duration will be approximately 72 months.
Estimated base year construction cost is $92 million.
Hopefully, the construction costs don't inflate over time.
I agree, the West End can take a backseat to the long neglected Sea Beach, all jokes directed to our #4 Sea Beach Fred put aside. This is serious business.
But what about the platforms?
They should do stations in the worst condition first [the Sea Beach being neglected over time], get that out of the way then do lines that are in good-average condition. Also why not see if the old deactivated CI bound track could be renovated and put back into use. Since it has the lightest ridership of the four lines going to CI, they could close a group of stations at once in a every other station pattern going one direction first, then do the other [8 Av, New Utrecht, 20 Av, Kings Hwy, 86 St for example] redo them then do the next group [Fort Hamilton, 18 Av, Bay Parkway, Avenue U {and currently redoing Stillwell}].
Drifting off a bit, they need to redo the entire 125 St station on the IND. Since it is getting a ADA compliant elevator, might as well do the platform/mezzanine [in which a good chunk of the tiles are now removed] and save money over waiting in time then it costs more than if they had done it sooner. I mean look at how 125 St has come a long way towards the good times once again and seeing rusty wall tiles, buckling tiles on the platform, so-so lighting, etc is an eyesore.
The area is making a huge comeback, and if 125th st/Lexington Ave/IRT station can be redone TWICE, and 110th/Lex/IRT, 3 TIMES, so can 125th St./IND. And retain those 1920's and 1930's wall sized pictures of Harlem at the 125th st side too.
Let's stop all of this garbage. The reason why Sea Beach stations are not getting the rehab is because they are used less. NYCT does not "shaft" riders because they feel like it, or to piss of Sea Beach Fred. In fact, they're not shafting anybody. All you do when you write things like this is continue the bellyaching by certain people over why the MTA plays 'favorites' (I'm not referring to one person either).
Want to see a line in serious need of repairs? Look at Crosstown stations north of Bedford-Nostrand (excluding the one station that was rehabbed. Look at the volume count of that station as well). I could argue that Broadway and 21st Van Alst are far more deserving of rehabs than any Sea Beach station.
Yes, those two stations are definitely terrible and need a rehab. I also believe that 7 Av in Manhattan should be redone [or spruced up] since it is in bad condition, especially the upper level. As for the upcoming West End project, its practically a complete rebuilding of the line.
What 7th avenue are you referring to? The only 7th avenue IRT line I know of has certainly had it's fair share of rebuilt stations, some of which were even worked on by my father!
Unless I specifically start looking for bad conditions in that station, I don't see a very bad looking station. Everybody here says it's atrocious, but I don't see what makes it look all that bad (maybe compared to most other rehabs, but not non-rehab stations).
The lower level of 7 Av/53 St doesn't look as bad as the upper.
But some other non-rehabbed stations look much worse than 7/53.
Some leaks and orange/brown rust stains are annoying, but this station is not the only rehab that has that problem. Look at the only rehabbed station on the crosstown line (North of Hoyt-schermerhorn). It too has that problem on it's walls; a result of huge water leaks when there is rainfall.
>> What's with this hiding station's identities?
Fine, Met/Grand on the G, and Woodhaven Blvd. on the E/G/R/V.
Bill "Newkirk"
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
BTW this is also assuming that you will swap the V and F in Queens, so that the V has direct access to the express track, otherwise this would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
:00 F 53 ST LCL
:00 B CPW EXP
:02 V 63 ST EXP
:04 D CPW LCL 7 AV HOLD 1 MIN
:06 F 53 ST LCL 34 HOLD 1 MIN
:06 B CPW EXP
:08 D CPW LCL
:10 V 63 ST EXP
:12 F 53 ST LCL 34 HOLD 2 MIN
:12 B CPW EXP
:14 D CPW LCL
:16 F 53 ST LCL 34 HOLD 1 MIN
:18 B CPW EXP
:20 F 53 ST LCL
:22 V 63 ST EXP
:24 D CPW LCL
:26 B CPW EXP 7 AV HOLD 2 MIN
:26 F 53 ST LCL 34 HOLD 1 MIN
:28 V 63 ST EXP
:30 B CPW EXP
:30 F 53 ST LCL
:32 D CPW LCL
:34 V 63 ST EXP
:36 B CPW EXP
:36 F 53 ST LCL 34 HOLD 1 MIN
:38 D CPW LCL
:40 V 63 ST EXP
:42 F 53 ST LCL 34 HOLD 2 MIN
:42 B CPW EXP
:44 D CPW LCL
:46 F 53 ST LCL 34 HOLD 1 MIN
:48 V 63 ST EXP
:50 B CPW EXP 7 AV HOLD 2 MIN
:50 F 53 ST LCL
:52 D CPW LCL
:54 V 63 ST EXP
:56 B CPW EXP 7 AV HOLD 2 MIN
:56 F 53 ST LCL 34 HOLD 1 MIN
:58 D CPW LCL
Well the F would have to be cut to 12 TPH, the D would have to be cut to 9 TPH, and the V would have to be cut to 8 TPH.
-Chris
Next, I have a question for someone [particularly at NJT] to answer:
Why is it I can use my bus pass on the RiverLINE and the NCS, but not on the HBLR?
If you're going to visit the Riverline, do that as one trip since the time spent getting to Trenton and exploring the line all the way to Camden will take all day. You can do the NCS and the HBLR in one day.
Mr bigcat lives a short NJT bus ride from the Camden end of the River Line, so his 3 light rail systems journey will begin and end on the River Line.
This is a test
Sedgewick?? o Sedgwick??
In 5th place, an utter failure in its purpose of trying to show people how to get to East Midlands Airport, is this effort:
4th place has to go to the Romania Tourist Office. Not only is their map barely schematic, it also includes an overview of where mountains would be in relation to the railroads, had they been drawn topographically:
3rd place goes to CFL (Chemin de Fer de Luxembourg). Can you tell which red line is which? It probably doesn't matter if their locos are as modern as the one pictured.
I thought I wasn't going to see any worse than this next one. Centrepoint Management Services really want people to be confused as to quite which node the labels refer to, don't they?
In 1st place, however, is the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive (SYPTE)'s rail map. Not only does it not differentiate different lines, but it is utterly illegible:
In case you're struggling to work that last one out, look at the bottom right hand corner of neighbouring West Yorkshire's rather good map:
It's still amazing that with 7 - or is it 5 - separate lines, they couldn't have found enough contrasting colours. I mean, off the top of my head:
One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven
To make things more interesting, the lines are numbered 10, 30, 50, 60 and 70 instead of 1, 3, 5, 6 and 7.
Be sure to distinguish line numbers from route numbers (R1 through R6). Some routes run along more than one line.
It is astonishing, given that the whole country has no more people than a mid-sized city (less than half a million) - and most of the lines have fairly frequent services too. On the other hand, most of the lines go to and from other countries, so it's probably more realistic to think of it as a regional part of the overall European network.
I would give much higher marks to the East Midlands airport map. Whoever “thought” of that should have his brain examined! Start with a simple presence/absence test! There’s no indication of which station you would need to debark to get to the airport and why they thought that anyone living in Kyle of Localsh would ever want to take a train to their tiny sodding little airport is anyone’s guess!
It's grotty and unclear all over. It makes Meadowhall look really complicated, when really it's two lines merging and running one station further to Sheffield.
Also, does clicking on the original source map give you a bigger, legible copy?
It does not.
The idea of South Yorks having a separate rail network from West Yorks really doesn't work well. It's a clear case of having a piddling little PTE which doesn't know it's elbow from it's derrière. How about calling South Yorks zone 6? :-P
I would give much higher marks to the East Midlands airport map. Whoever “thought” of that should have his brain examined! Start with a simple presence/absence test! There’s no indication of which station you would need to debark to get to the airport and why they thought that anyone living in Kyle of Localsh would ever want to take a train to their tiny sodding little airport is anyone’s guess!
It is pretty amusing. The station's actually Loughborough - but no-one would guess that (and the bus service from there sucks anyway). Also, it gives no indication of which stations have direct service to Loughborough. Probably a better map would be the Midland Mainline one with Manchester removed, Barrow, Sileby, and Syston added along with all stations from Birmingham NS via Leicester to Lincoln.
Why have the map in the first place? Doesn’t N’Arrive Pas run the train service anyway? It looks so according to this map (which is a decent map, no matter what the service is).
The station's actually Loughborough - but no-one would guess that (and the bus service from there sucks anyway). Also, it gives no indication of which stations have direct service to Loughborough. Probably a better map would be the Midland Mainline one with Manchester removed, Barrow, Sileby, and Syston added along with all stations from Birmingham NS via Leicester to Lincoln.
I suppose it depends on what the realistic catchment area is for East Midlands Airport. How does it manage to coexist with Birmingham? I really don’t know the area, but I’m thinking of Teesside Airport, where the rail links should be probably just the Saltburn to Darlington line!
Speaking of rail maps, I really must get out and piece together a mosaic of photos I took of the tile map of the old LNER on the wall at York station one of these days. It’s a monument to sic transit gloria transit!
Both have quite rapidly increasing traffic. Some of the low-cost airlines operate out of EMIA, which also has a fair number of package holiday flights.
Although England is small, regional identities are strong. The Midlands really *do* naturally divide into the East Midlands and West Midlands - Nottingham people go to London far more often than they go to Birmingham (which most East Midlanders detest anyway). The two airports are actually about forty miles apart. EMIA serves the three cities of Leicester, Nottingham and Derby and their suburbs well, being in the middle of the triangle formed by those three cities, which have a joint population of over two million. To a lesser extent it also serves Sheffield, which until recently must have been the biggest city in the world without an airport! Birmingham Airport serves, well, Birmingham, which is the UK's second largest city, and the rest of the West Midlands metropolitan area (Coventry, Wolverhampton, etc.).
Back on topic, Birmingham Airport has its own train station (Birmingham International) but, as Rail Blue says, EMIA has rather poor bus links to stations. What calls itself the sirport bus runs between Loughborough station and Long Eaton station, nominally connecting with trains at both ends. But it runs only once an hour, and if the fast train from London is even slightly late into Loughborough, the airport bus leaves (empty) just as the train pulls in. There are also local bus services from Nottingham, Derby, Leicester and Loughborough, but these are not terrible frequent either, and are really meant for airport employees rather than travellers. When I lived in Nottingham I tended to use the local bus to get to the airport but I was regarded as slightly eccentric in doing so. The long-term parking is cheap, and package holiday companies often provide minibus transport in connection with their own flights.
Midland Mainline has a plan to build an East Midlands Parkway station on their main line wbere it passes a couple of miles from EMIA. MML is part of the National Express group which also runs the long-distance bus services (think Greyhound) in the UK. The idea is to put the station near an access on the M1 motorway (the UK's main north-south highway). Trains will stop there, and buses will pull off the highway briefly and stop there too. A frequent free shuttle bus will then run to and from the airport (which is on top of a hill, making construction of an actual rail branch line to it a bit tricky). However, the new station should have been opened last year, but so far there is no sign of any construction work starting.
However hourly service from Loughborough, especially if the bus service is unsympathetic to train arrivals will kill most rail to plane traffic, except for the dedicated masochists!
I find it interesting that the Midlanders partition themselves, considering it’s such a small area. I live approximately in the middle of Newark and Philadelphia and always check flights from both airports to see what is cheaper!
Is that who really operates it? I can only get it to show as a CO (Continental) or BE (Jeresy European Airways t/a FlyBe).
My mistake. Uzbekistan Airways now flies between New York and Tashkent via Belgrade. They switched from Birmingham several months ago.
By the way, the BE flight is just a code share on the CO flight, not an actual flight.
I've flown from Birmingham direct to Chicago on American Airlines, but I'm not sure if that flight is still operated since 9/11.
It's no longer operated, though I'm not sure how soon after 9/11 it was discontinued.
The Warwickshire (West) / Leicestershire (East) boundary is probably one of the most real ones in the UK. The obvious side effect of this is that Leicestershire, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire are all sensible focussed counties, whereas Staffordshire and Northamptonshire can't quite decide where in the country they are.
The quite ridiculous offshoot of this East/West divide is that, starting from Leicester, I would use Luton Airport, before then considering East Midlands and then Birmingham.
A frequent free shuttle bus will then run to and from the airport (which is on top of a hill, making construction of an actual rail branch line to it a bit tricky).
Perfect for a quadruple bore High Speed Line: (1) London (and Leicester) to Derby, (2) Nottingham to Birmingham, (3) Birmingham to Nottingham, (4) Derby to London (via Leicester). Now that would really be the hub of a high-speed rail network...
However, the new station should have been opened last year, but so far there is no sign of any construction work starting.
Hasn't it meant to have been opened every year since 2001?
Yes they do. That is still an unclear map though. For a start there should be different colours for lines - pretty much an extended version of the WYPTE map. Also, it would really work so much better as two maps: a Tyne/Tees area one and another for the rest. One of the good things about that map is that it at least shows the major connecting services - I find something intensely comical about the GMPTE map - you can just about imagine a caricature of a flat-capped man heartily tucking into a Sunday lunch on the right hand side, with the legend "Here be Yorshiremen". Heaven knows what caricatures should bedevil the other four sides!
The catchment area roughly divides along the Leics/Warks boundary. Northants is strange, Staffs is West unless you live in Burton.
#3 West End Jeff
It's actually a fairly good map, except for making a total hash of the Wakefield area (and the positioning of Goole for that matter). I only used it to illustrate quite how bad SYPTE's map was.
The National Rail Express Routes map could potentially be a good map if they color coded the individual lines and the draw the shape on the country on the map.
I agree. It would get a bit complex with all the cross-country routes though.
If my second map is working, you'll see that there used to be three Bradford Stations: the Midland Railway at Forster Sq (which was called Market St until the Grouping), the Lancs & Yorks at Exchange (now called Interchange in the naff WYPTE style meaning they built the Bus Station next-door), and the Great Northern Railway (!) at Adolphus Street.
In the historical explanation, I'll start with a line you'll hopefully recognise: the Midland Main Line (actually the Midland Counties from Rugby via Leicester to Derby, then the North Midland to Leeds). In addition to having a Southern end designed to run into Euston over the London & Birmingham, the line wasn't the present alignment North of Chesterfield, it avoided the gradients and tunnels and instead ran on the current goods line direct to Rotherham (or rather Masbrough - railway spelling Masboro), where a connection was available to Sheffield (not the current station, nor for that matter Victoria) then continued to Swinton, where the current alignment sends all traffic over the Swinton & Knottingley Joint. At this point the MML curved Westward, past Darfield, where momentarily the trackbed gets inundated by the A6195, then passes between Cudworth and Royston, current tracks then resuming for a while. Then, instead of curving into either Wakefield station, it continued onward via Normanton to Leeds (initially Hunslet Lane, later Wellington, which became the terminal part of the current City station). All this is fairly easy to follow on an OS Map, except around the Swinton - Wath-on-Dearne area where it looks like a dog's breakfast. Note that it managed to thread its way from Chesterfield to Leeds without serving any major settlement well and only Rotherham poorly.
The (pretty dumb) alignment of the North Midland directly affected how the Manchester & Leeds (later the Lancs & Yorks) approached Leeds - basically in a fashion they would later see as utterly unsatisfactory. Like the NMR, the MLR took the path of least resistance (notwithstanding the slight issue of Summit Tunnel). It ran from Oldham Road in Manchester (North-East of its replacement, Victoria station - the spur to Oldham Rd is marginally visible at 1:50,000 and bloody obvious at 1:25,000) via Rochdale, Hebden Bridge, Brighouse, and Wakefield Kirkgate to join the NMR at Normanton. Again it was a line which went nowhere much (although it did manage to serve Wakefield) and became obsolete as a through route due to its circuitous nature once the LNWR completed the Standedge Tunnels (between Huddersfield and Stalybridge). The MLR/LYR however facilitated local travel by construction of a number of spurs, one of which was to Bradford (Exchange, now Interchange). Bear in mind that at this stage Bradford to Leeds was accomplished via Brighouse and Normanton!
The Midland's Line to Bradford, although clearly a branch off a push to Skipton and Ingleton (in the hope of getting to Scotland - oh, don't you love those Victorian dreams!), seriously undercut the LYR in terms of both distance and time. These were schismatic times: the GNR virtually rendered the MR's purpose as a route to the North redundant and the Euston Sq Confederacy had broken down, leading to a feud between the MR and LNWR.
The GNR capitalised on the battle for Bradford with one of its strange forays into the West Riding (its network there was isolated from its main network, although Hudson had granted running powers over the Midland before he was ousted - his theory was that the GNR was the better way North (as it indeed was), so the Midland should make money out of its ways into Leeds and York; the shareholders, however, wanted all out war). It constructed a line direct from Leeds (even just missing Pudsey) to Bradford Adolphus St. As the map shows, this was in a rather poor location for the town. The LYR saw the opportunity for a deal: the GNR could run into Exchange in exchange for running powers direct to Leeds. This was the beginning of a number of deals by which the LYR remained a relevant player. Another instance of this was the deal with the GCR to provide a service over the London Extension to Marylebone from Bradford Exchange, Halifax, and Huddersfield (exercising a few miles of running powers over the LNWR).
Returning to the feud between the LNWR and MR, this got to the stage where the MR threatened to bypass LNWR territory between Ingleton and Carlisle by building the most ridiculous main line in Britain: the Settle and Carlisle. Unfortunately for the Midland, their bluff was called, largely due to pressure by the GSWR. Only in England would a railway have as much of a notion of playing the game as the Midland: not only did they build the Settle and Carlisle, they furthermore sought to make the Expresses via this route competitive. Leeds for the Midland was a problem: it either entailed a reversing move, or skipping Leeds Wellington station. Either way, track capacity was a serious issue between the where the West curve joined the line to Skipton and where the LNWR diverged. The MR came up with a brilliant idea: using the Bradford branch as part of a Leeds by-pass route to the North. A line was built, diverging from the MML at Royston, then running as far as Dewsbury. At this point the LYR stepped in and granted running powers to Bradford. This should have simplified the task into building a line from Exchange to Forster Sq; it never was built. Such lines, initially on viaducts, later in tunnels, were proposed under the MR, LMSR, and BR; nothing ever happened; Bradford was left with having two stations less than half a mile apart.
There you go - an extremely potted history of Bradford stations (and yes, I do know I missed out City Rd Goods, for all the smart alecs out there).
Has Thameslink 2000 finally happened? The last I heard it became Thameslink 2006 due to delays associated with privatization.
AEM7
At a public inquiry in 2002, "deficiencies" were found, architectural and procedural in nature, including the design of London Bridge station, which was deemed inadequate. There were no actual transport deficiencies, and Network Rail are working on a modified proposal. If the resubmitted design should be approved, Thameslink 2000 could come into operation by 2012.
See here.
It was an 1890s scheme (I've left the book with the exact date of Royston - Dewsbury back in Leicester), which got altered from being a through Midland line to running powers over the L&Y between Dewsbury and Bradford. The construction of a line bridging the gap in Bradford (only about 500yds) became of paramount importance to the Midland, but was obstructed by the City of Bradford not wanting a huge viaduct outside City Hall followed by World War I.
The LMS officially was always planning to construct the missing link, although it didn't much care for the Midland Main Line as a way to Scotland (they focussed on the LNWR Trent Valley Line). To them the value was in losing the reversing move on the ex-L&Y Manchester to Leeds trains, along with the nuisance of having to run over LNER tracks, as well as of course being a method to divert a lot of freight away from Leeds to free up capacity. As this was a project of secondary importance, it simply got put off again and again until it came to such a time as it looked like Beeching was going to close Forster Square station (its service was cut to Ilkley locals only at one stage).
Good that Edinburgh's equivalent tunnel (linking Edinburgh Waverley and Haymarket) got built before that happened.
I hadn't realised that one was so late!
It's kind of retarded that British railways in general did not build completely through the downtown -- which left 21st Century Planners with a bunch of headaches like Thameslink 2000, CrossRail, and others.
It's strange that projects like that get so much focus, when there are far simpler projects up North that would do far more for the railway network (eg 4-tracking Manchester Piccadilly to Oxford Rd, Bradford of course, re-opening Birmingham Curzon St).
Has Thameslink 2000 finally happened? The last I heard it became Thameslink 2006 due to delays associated with privatization.
Now Thameslink 2012 / Thameslink not in our lifetimes.
I would say it shows a severe lack of effort, but the key term "effort" seems to be lacking in that map.
Speaking of which, here is a sort of pseudo-strip map for the 7. How is it?
It's simple and elegant. But since the 7-diamond is the express, it should be shown at all express stops, or preferably none.
For such an enormous project to have outlived its usefulness in such a short time must go down as a colossal miscalculation on someone's part. What went wrong?
Planned in 1950s.
By the late 1960s, that area served by the J train that didn't have better routes to midtown wasn't filled with a high percentage of white collar workers working in midtown. That is, the market disappeared between planning and availability.
By now, things have changed. But where such a train go now? It can't terminate at 57th St any more. If you merge the M with the V, you have to cut the length of the V, which the MTA may not be willing to do.
Also, while they were building the B/D Chrystie connector, it probably wasn't too expensive to dig up a little more dirt and put this connector in. So the incremental cost probably seemed very reasonable in 1955.
The MTA has gone to considerable trouble to take trackways out of service that are no longer needed (e.g., the Essex-Bowery-Canal overhaul on Nassau St, the demolition of the Snediker El, the lower level of 42nd St, 1/2 of the Sea Beach express tracks), but Chrystie remains available.
The Chrystie Street -- Willie B connector could have been useful if the Nassau option had been chosen for the SAS, though two of three SAS services would have been eight cars. Essentially, you would have had an interchange like the one planned at 63rd Street.
You'd have the Q as planned, branching off at 63rd to the west side. South of there one service (say the M) would go to/from the Willie B from the East Side above Grand. Another (say the T) would join the J/Z on Nassau Street, giving Broadway Brooklyn riders another option.
In this scenario, the money saved by eliminating construction south of Grand could be spent in Queens. One option I have described earlier is hooking up the G to the 63rd Street tunnel, and building a bus terminal with direct access to the LIE adjacent to, say, 21st Van Alst. More G train would be run, at least as far as the interlocking at Bedford, and they would be eight cars. The G could pick up bus transfees and subway transfeers at a new station under Queens Plaza, then take them to East Midtown and down the East Side, becoming the T. You'd run more M trains, and run them right up to the Upper East Side.
Instead of all of this, I'd just like to see QB express service divided 3 ways, and one service sent down 2nd av.
That would be a little tricky. First, you'd have to cut service to Jamaica Center to 10 from 12. A three way merge may cut capacity from 30 to 27. And, you need more than 10 F trains in Brooklyn -- there is 14 now.
Of course, if you ran the V to Church (along with the G) and F express in Brooklyn, with 10 trains each, that solves the Brooklyn problem. And perhaps CBTC would allow more trains when it is installed on the QB line.
It is needed, just not strictly for passenger service. It is used regularly for work trains moves and transfers between the Eastern Division and the IND.
True, however, it's apples and oranges. All the above have absolutely no use, or at least they are/were totally redundant or not needed. However, even if not in revenue service, the Nassau-6th Ave connection is a very valuable connection for non-revenue runs and equipment moves. It would be very foolish to remove such a connection. It's not the same thing as abandoning useless or redundant express tracks, such as the ones mentioned above.
According to info on this board, V is running at 3/4 of it's capacity, cutting it to Eastern Division length should be no problem.
Arti
One way to address that, would be to short-turn some V-s at 2nd Av.
The other way is to swap E and F northern terminals (I know, I said that before), make J a Broadway express and let V provide the local service from Broadway Junction. Top that with little advertising and we have a more balanced load.
Arti
The infrastucture exists and is underutilized. I think finding ways to make better use for it and at the same time taking load off of QB would be a good goal.
Arti
Look at L ridership. The 14th St. area isn't THAT popular. Most of it's riders transfer to north/south lines in Manhattan.
The Willy B/Broadway elevated's biggest problem is that it's SLOW.
The infrastucture exists and is underutilized. I think finding ways to make better use for it and at the same time taking load off of QB would be a good goal.
Spending money to activate infrastructure simply because it's there is a waste of funds.
This applies to 63rd Street connector too, but with service changes it was made a relative success.
Arti
*(It's true that there was a certain amount of carrot-and-stick social engineering involved in the 63rd St. routing decision, to get people to stay on the local by sending the V to the more useful destinations along 53rd St. But the core of the change was the infrastructure expansion that allowed the G's replacement with the V, not the flip witth the F.)
For the first 12 years of its existence, ridership through the 63rd Street tunnel was very low. Why, then, was it connected to the Queens Boulevard trunk? Because ridership through the tunnel was low only because it was a dead end.
Ridership over the Williamsburg Bridge is relatively low in large part because it's effectively a dead end. (Yes, there are transfers to other lines, but they're out of the way, and the M runs through to south Brooklyn at times, but that isn't where most of the ridership is going.) Perhaps building a new tunnel to connect the dead end to the 6th Avenue trunk isn't cost-effective, but establishing a new service through an existing tunnel may well be worth considering.
The J/M/Z itself might not be very crowded, but the L is. Make the J/M/Z more attractive to some L passengers and they'd consider switching routes.
There's no incentive for L riders to switch to the M or J. I'd be happy if the J/M would simply keep it's riders from x-ferring to the L. Get rid of the damned timers on the bridge!
Absolutely correct. However, the plan is to keep the J/M riders off the L at Wyckoff and BJ. Like I said, with current service, the M to the L to whatever transfer on 14th Street is FASTER than the M to Nassau to a similar transfer, and as explained, that is because of the Nassau line turning south, so people have to backtrack back north once they make their transfers. SO of course the M to the L method is currently more attractive, even if 3 trains instead of 2.
However, with a M/Chrystie or J/Chrystie like train to 6th, all the transfers that the new train would make would definitely be more attractive than the Nassau transfers, thus the incentive to get off at BJ or Wyckoff for the L will be greatly diminished.
You will definitely not got L riders off the L for the M/J, but you will certainly keep M/J riders from abandoning ship for the L.
The whole Eastern division needs CBTC so that all these precautionary speed restrictions can be alleviated.
Perhaps, however, like I said in the other post the "M/L" combo to a transfer on 14th to Midtown is faster than the M to a transfer on Nassau because the M has to head downtown away from Midtown. With a new M/Chrystie train, the M/L as a 3 train transfer will become less attractive because the direct M/Chrystie train to Midtown and the new transfer connections on 6th will be a LOT faster than the Nassau connections, so there won't be as much time savings by taking the M/L instead of the M/Chrystie train. Remember, the L is only attractive and faster because it's either that or the worse Nassau connections. A Chrystie train is a lot better competition against the L than a Nassau train is against the L.
There's also the fairly easy change to the F at Essex.
Even in rush hours I know some people along Broadway Bklyn that work along the midtown 8th Ave route that get off the JMZ at Delancey for the F to W4 for the A train as opposed to going down to Fulton St!!!
Tony
It is a transfer node from an earlier era, based upon different commuting patterns. But I like how the older infrastructure is still functioning.
Well aside from the transplanted M riders at Myrtle, the L's busiest stations are between Bedford and Montrose, and they have no choice, so let's look at why people get off the M to get the L.
Many people get off the M for the L because the L IS faster than the M to the same transfers the L has. Believe me, I tried both when I lived along the M. But let's look at why the L is faster. The L shoots right down 14th Street to it's connections. The M actually has to travel away from midtown before connecting to it's similar transfers. For example:
Most of the following are three seat rides for M/J riders using the L, but they use the L anyway to avoid the following:
-To get the 6 or NRQW, the M/J has to go all the way down to Canal.
-To get the Lex line, it has to go down to Chambers.
-To get to the A/C (and not even the E) or the 2,3 (and not even the 1), it has to go all the way down to Fulton Street, backwards from the direction people want to go.
The L in the case of current service is faster and more direct.
But now let's look at a M/V/J combo train running on 6th Ave. Now people will have a one seat ride to 6th Ave, so 6th Ave destinations automatically are already better than taking the M/J to L to 6th.
-Many people having a three seat ride to Broadway (Manhattan) may also forgo the three seat ride, and take the new "MJV" as many locations are similar in midtown for the Bway and 6th Ave line, but also have an easy transfer at 34th St for those Broadway riders north of 34th.
-The Lex line is also a nice transfer at Bleecker (and especially when the other side of Bleecker has a connection).
-The 8th Ave line becomes easy because of West 4th Street.
-The 1,2,3,9 is no worse off at 14th, except they have the added bonus of a two seat ride instead of three (if they used the L), and direct connection to the West side local, which they didn't get if they used the J/M at Fulton.
So in summary, yes the L is more desirable now with current service, and why Wyckoff and Bway Junction loosed M/J riders for the L. But if there was a direct 6th Ave train, the L would become a bit less attractive or less of a temptation, especially for M riders who have to use all those stairs at Wyckoff.
That's my whole point. The ramifications of the 1995 crash on the Williamsburgh Bridge are still being felt in the form of reduced J/M ridership.
Neither does the L. As I explained in another post, the J/M/Z's ridership has suffered because of the myriad of timers and speed restrictions. These lines have good transfer options in Manhattan, like the L.
The time needed to make 2 transfers is negated by both the closer proximity to midtown locations the L is. Besides, the L is probably quicker from Myrtle to Union Sq. than the M is from Wykoff to Chambers St. M riders probably learned this back in 99 when they HAD to make this transfer.
Although I also like the idea of a J Broadway (Brooklyn) Express, and the V would be great as a local on Broadway, I don't think they can terminate V's at Broadway Junction with J's and Z's going through too. (I may be wrong). If that's true, the V can't go t Canarsie because east of Broadway Junction the stations are pretty low use, and don't need V's and L's giving double service. Can't send the V to Jamaica, because that would also be overkill on that line. Broadway Brooklyn stations are for the most part busier than Jamaica Ave stations.
But now with the L being so crowded with future ridership growing, sending the V to Canarsie would take some of the burden off the L providing room for more riders north of Broadway Junction. (Maybe some L trains could even terminate there in rush hours.) If the V were express from Marcy till Broadway Junction with the J being the local, there would even be more of an incentive for Canarsie riders to use it. It may even get some riders back from the express buses.
(Most J Jamaica Ave riders get off at Broadway Junction to change for the A anyway and don't ride on Broadway Brooklyn anyway.)
The only downside of extending the V along Broadway Brooklyn is that it couldn't be extended along the Culver line.
Because like I said, most of the stations on the eastern end of the L are among the lowest use stations in the system, many even rivaling the Rockaway stations. They certainly don't need two services between BJ and Canarsie.
That being said, there is a way it can be done, even if sort of unorthodox. The L could be truncated at Broadway Junction, with the V extended to Canarsie. The V would become the weekday service on the the BJ to Canarsie part of the line. This would also allow the L to increase service where it's needed most, and at the same time not overburdening the Eastern end of the line where the trains are empty enough without adding a second service to the line.
So basically service would look like this:
V - Continental to Rockaway Parkway weekdays. Nights and weekends, no service. Broadway Brooklyn local.
L - Weekdays: 8th Ave to Broadway Junction. Nights and weekends when the V is not running, 8th Ave to Rockaway parkway, as it does now.
J/Z - skip stop as now, except both running full Broadway Brooklyn express, with the V taking up the slack.
The front car of the L is, indeed, very crowded past Broadway Junction, because that's where the exits at Sutter and Rock Parkway are. The rest of the train is mostly empty. Besides, SRO does not mean overcrowded -- many lines are routinely SRO on weekends and even at night.
Besides, lots of rush hour services are somewhat asymmetric, with more trains in one direction than the other. In the AM rush, the 4 and F have more trains southbound, while the A and I think also the B have more trains northbound.
There could be 9 or 10 southbound V/M trains and 7 northbound ones in the busiest hour of the AM rush without any major problems.
wayne
The 6th Ave/Williamsburgh connection failed because of a lack of ridership and the general depopulation of the areas surrounding the Broadway el. However, the Manhattan bridge portion of the connection has been a huge success.
That and the limited amount of time the KK ran too. It wasn't really a desirable service because of the way they ran it. Of course the major problem was just what you said. Broadway Brooklyn was a dying neighborhood, and less and less people even needing the subway because as building after building burned or was abandoned, less population density along the el to use the trains.
But that was then. Broadway Brooklyn is slowly building up, each year more and more people are coming back to the Broadway Brooklyn stations as new construction and refurbishment is everywhere along the Broadway el right now. The station ridership along Broadway will continue to grow.
So an empty line, right through the heart of Downtown, gets emptier. Hence my preference to run the SAS, or the Airtrain via Montingue (if one of those plans must be built), through there.
So be it. However, I agree with you on the SAS. I am so sorry they decided not to use the Nassau line for the downtown part of the SAS. There is so much unused infastructure on the line, and the infastructure that is used is low use. The SAS subway would have made the Nassau line a very well used. All they would have needed to do is extend the platforms from Canal to Broad a bit. I believe some of them are already longer than 8 car 60 foot cars because the BMT Standards were 67 feet long, and they ran there, so it may just be necessary to extend the platforms around 80 feet or so, which is not that much.
The Airtrain idea is also interesting. Maybe they could even use the soon to be abandoned platform at Canal somehow, and the unused capacity of Chambers to bring Airtrain in somehow. That would increas usage for the subway portion of the Nassau line too, and make sort of a hub at Canal Street.
According to the SDEIS, extending the platforms "a bit" was not as easy as it first seemed. There's a lot of aged and densely-packed sub-grade infrastructure in the neighborhoods surrounding those stations. As the cost estimates went up, the benefits of the Nassau option seemed a lot less compelling.
Indeed, they are so concerned about disturbing existing infrastructure that the cross-platform transfer at Grand Street has been dropped. There will still be a transfer to the B/D at Grand St, but it will either be a vertical transfer (like W 4th) or a passageway to Forsyth St.
The Airtrain idea is also interesting. Maybe they could even use the soon to be abandoned platform at Canal somehow, and the unused capacity of Chambers to bring Airtrain in somehow. That would increase usage for the subway portion of the Nassau line too, and make sort of a hub at Canal Street.
If the Airtrain connection happens at all, the aim will be to bring it as close to the WTC as possible. Any other routing makes a project with already-tenuous economics even less compelling. The Nassau stations are just too far from the locus of downtown money for an airtrain terminus along that route to work.
If they use the Montague route, they will bring the trains up Church St and build a new terminal at the WTC. Although the JMZ Fulton St station will be technically accessible to the WTC through the Dey St passageway, I don't see that working as an AirTrain route. Nostalgia for the Nassau Line's heyday shouldn't obscure economic reality.
I guess Fulton Street is the real problem there.
(If they use the Montague route, they will bring the trains up Church St and build a new terminal at the WTC. Although the JMZ Fulton St station will be technically accessible to the WTC through the Dey St passageway, I don't see that working as an AirTrain route.)
You are actually talking about the locus of one propety owner, Brookfield. If they were going to run the train up Church, they could terminate it at City Hall, perhaps on the lower level. But since more subway passengers use that line, there would be more sharing of space between subway and Airtrain PAX. I don't think that's what Brookfield has in mind.
(Nostalgia for the Nassau Line's heyday shouldn't obscure economic reality. )
I'm not sure it had a heyday. My guess is business was moving uptown by the time if was finally finished.
No, I'm not merely talking about Brookfield, although certainly they're a legitimate part of the equation. I'm also taking into consideration all of the other buildings that will go up at the Trade Center site, as well as others nearby (e.g., 1 Liberty Plaza). The other point is that you can build a useful terminal at WTC, because right now it's just a 16-acre hole in the ground. You can't easily do that anyplace else.
The actual Brookfield proposal, of course, was ridiculous. When the preferred LIRR-JFK-Downtown alignment is released later this month, I do not expect it will be Brookfield's.
If AirTrain riders are ever brought into Chambers, the station had better be totally renovated first.
With all this talk of other uses for the Montague St tunnel, I see no mention of Southern Brooklyn users. During rush hours M usage between Brooklyn and Nassau St is heavy. If the M terminates at Broad Street or elsewhere north, the W would have to be extended into Brooklyn utilizing the capacity resulting from the removal of the M.
Nothing would change at rush hours. Either the M or the J/Z would still run through Nassau to Bay Parkway. The recommendation though was that the 6th Ave service become the 24/7 service, and the Nassau service the part time service. Weekends, Nassau is cut off to Chambers anyway, so weekend service would be the Nassau Shuttle between Essex and Chambers.
So it makes more sense to run the M to midtown than the J/Z.
The Chrystie St. subway and connections to BMT routes via the Manhattan and Williamsburgh bridge was originally intended to feed 2nd Ave, not 6th Ave. 6th Ave express service was intented to feed the Houston St. tunnel, which was never built.
I just explained it more clearly.
There was a TA study in the mid 1960's which stated that the only way for WB-6th Ave service to succeed was to 3rd track the Jamaica El and operate the service as an express. This would have made travel times equal between Jamaica and 34th St for both the F and the new service.
The TA decided not to add the 3rd track and run the new service as a local.
Weekday service:
Extending "V" service to Metropolitan Ave via Chrystie St. Nassau Line connector with some short turns at 2nd Ave. Maybe some to/from Jamaica Center (*). Brooklyn Broadway express/ 6th Ave. / Queens Blvd.)/ 53St. local.
Extending "Z" service to Coney Island along current West End "D" line and some short turns at 9th Ave./ 36St. (replacing the "M") Brooklyn Broadway express/ 4th Ave. local.
All "V's and Coney Island Z" trains will run as the peak direction Brooklyn Broadway express.
Extending "E" to Lefferts Blvd with some short turns at WTC and becoming the 179 St./Jamaica express between 179St and Union Turnpike only stopping at Parsons Blvd. by giving the Jamaica Center terminal to the "R" (*) 8th Ave./53St. local/ Queens Blvd. Express.
Extending "G" service to Kings Highway with some short turns at Church Ave. with current night and weekend extension. Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown/Queens Blvd. local.
Extending "R" service to Jamaica Center (*). 4th Ave. /Manhattan Broadway/ 60th St. / Queens Blvd. local.
The "J" running to 168 St. via the Chrystie St. connector running from W. 4th St. and on days with games at Yankee Stadium run some of them to Bedford Park Blvd. (replacing and filling in "C" service and additional service with less crowding for the "B") Brooklyn Broadway/ 8th Ave. (/Concourse) local(*).
(*) "E, J, and R" trains run full time.
"G and Z" trains have different weekend plans for their routes.
Weekend service:
"V": See "E, F, Z and R" services.
"Z": Metropolitan Ave. / Eastern Parkway-Broadway Junction to 9th Ave. (Replaces the "V" in Brooklyn and Manhattan between Essex St. and Metropolitan Ave.)
"E": Regular service as mentioned above except.
"G": Regular service as mentioned above.
"R": Regular service as mentioned above. (Replaces "V" between 71st/Continental Aves. through Queens Blvd. and 34St.)
"J": Regular service as mentioned above except alternating trains running to 167St, Bronx and 168St, Manhattan. Trains operate every 10 minutes. ("A" trains run local from 145th St. to 207th St, Manhattan and "D" trains run local from 145St, Manhattan to 205th St, Bronx.)
(All services run with slower speeds.)
First car fleet option:
"E" trains run with some R-32/ R38s and most of the former "V" fleet of R-46s.
"G and R" trains run with some leftover R-46s from former "V" fleet.
"V, Z, and J" trains run with R-32 & R42s in the following 2-car order: R42-R32-R32-R42 with former "M" fleet.
OR
Weekday service:
Just the "V and R" train options (*) with the "J" (*) extended to Coney Island (replacing the "M") and the "Z" extended to 95 St.-Bay Ridge with "V and Z" express option.
(*) "E, J, and R" trains run full time.
"G and Z" trains have different weekend plans for their routes.
Weekend service:
"V": See "E, Z and R" services.
"Z": Metropolitan Ave. / Eastern Parkway-Broadway Junction to 95th St. (Replaces the "V" in Brooklyn and Manhattan between Essex St. and Metropolitan Ave.)
"E": Regular service as mentioned above. (Replaces "V" from Queens Blvd. to 53St. / 5th Ave and W. 4th St. Some shorter trains will run to 2nd Ave. via the 8th / 6th Ave. switches.
"G": Regular service as mentioned above.
"R": Regular service as mentioned above. (Replaces "V" between 71st/Continental Aves. through Queens Blvd. and 34St.)
"J": Regular service as mentioned above.
(All services run with slower speeds).
Second option:
"E" regular fleet with a few extra R-46 trains.
"G and R" trains fleets as mentioned above. "V, Z, and J" trains are in the same 2-car order: R42-R32-R32-R42 with former "M" fleet.
Depends what you mean by "possible". This is more net service than we have now, so it would require more rolling stock than available today. In that sense, it is not possible.
Do you mean, given unlimited resources, can this service operate over the existing track plant? Literally it could, although it looks like there might be some switching conflicts along 6th/8th Avenues, and perhaps along Queens Blvd.
Do you mean, is this a more ecnomically sensible way to utilize the track plant? If so, I tend to doubt it. There are quite a few services you're proposing that appear to be gratuitous---running trains simply because it's technically possible, instead of running them where they're needed. For instance, what's the purpose for extending the Z to Coney Island?
Only with the resources and car fleet available with testing for 2 weeks to see which service changes are better.
The purpose of the Z going to Coney Island is to provide the additional service the current rush hour M trains make.
Are the R32s and R42s compatible running together on the same train?
The number of changes in your plan makes the recent Manhattan Bridge changes look miniscule. They could hardly be called minimal, by any rational definition.
Only with the resources and car fleet available with testing for 2 weeks to see which service changes are better.
I don't think the MTA has ever made such radical service changes just for a 2-week test period to see if they're better. They have to redo all of the signage, print maps, develop advertising, etc. Then, after 2 weeks, they announce which ones worked, and which ones didn't? I don't think so!!
The purpose of the Z going to Coney Island is to provide the additional service the current rush hour M trains make.
But the M doesn't go to Coney Island.
I also checked the bulleting boards on a local news station. Some people have interesting memories of interurbans running around galvestin and sugarland. One guy suggest people are laughing at the system for being dangerous. Somsone pointed out they're laughing at houstonians. FINALLY, i found a houston forum to post and incite a riot for them all!
MY posting
Got one decent response so far. I actually think it's humorous.
Lightrailnow's really good coverage of the system
AND, my favorite, the Wham-Bam-Train!
A must read
Is that childish or just plain flawed?
I like the authors lack of any real facts, mere speculations/generalizations, and the comparasion to the ladder company is the best part. That's not how business's work, just look at Ford!
Those webpages actually make me bitter. They're worse than anything I ever handed into English/writing class, and all i get are lousy B's and C's.
Anyway, I have a theory on Iraq. I supported the president going on, but i don't support his screwing the whole thing up. To me he's treating the military into the role of a bunch of beat cops in the Bronx. I thought this was a war, it's obvious that it is to me.
Now, if you're too policitically correct to do something and blow them all up I got a plan B. Pull all the troops back to the borders and form a perimiters. nothing get's in, nothing get's out, including the usual foriegn freedom fighters. They said if you oust the one tyrant a 100 warlords will crop up. There you go. The problems will eventually wipe themselves out, and it'll be safer to come back.
And please do what Isreal does. Don't wait for a weirdo or van to ram you and blow up, shot first and ask later. I am really disliking what's goign on here.
If you pull the troops back, the city will erupt into a civil war. The people of Iraq do no like each other and will kill themselves by the thousands once we pull out. I've always said the next war in Iraq will be among themselves.
One thing is fairly certain in my opinion. The group (In Iraq)that wins the war in Iraq will hate Americans even more than ever.
Your right about this.
Folks. Didn't we go into this war to save lives?? The sad part is we won't have time to empower one ethnic group since the date for pulling out is just around the corner and things look worse then ever. Once we leave the Iraq army is toast and it's going to be a free for all.
Metro officials and other proponents refuse to admit that the design of the system is largely to blame for most, if not all of the accidents. Certainly, the drivers are at least partially to blame. But, the sheer number and frequency of accidents points to an underlying design flaw in the system - a flaw that has created an environment conducive to driver error.
I, myself, am formally trained and experienced in road design and construction. One of the first things taught to civil engineers when it comes to road design is that, in essence, we must protect drivers from themselves. A road can be designed correctly according to all design standards, but if there is an usually high accident rate on that road even when the drivers are at fault, then the design is a failure. The overall accident rate per distance traveled over the decades has gone down, so this philosophy is proven and it works.
It's hard to explain by just typing, but there are many active and passive features built into roads that psychologically make drivers behave a certain way. If you drove around with me, I could point out a dozen features that keep drivers on the road. Diagonal striping is one method. There are also features that give the driver time to correct themselves and prevent any accident if they happen to run off the road or whatnot. Drive on a highway built in the 50s or 60s and compare it to a road built in the last 25 years. A highway from 1960 has no shoulders or runouts while a road from today has 12 ft shoulders plus embankments that serve as runouts. The philosophy back then was that the driver is responsible for staying on the road, today the philosophy is that the driver should have as many chances as possible to avoid an accident.
So now apply this to the design of the Houston Metrorail. Obviously, it is really easy to get into an accident with one of the trains. The design of the rail/road system doesn't give drivers enough chances to correct their mistake or do enough to prevent them from making a mistake in the first place. I imagine the problem with the design stems from that the planners didn't want to take any travel lanes away from autos, so you have too many areas where light rail and autos come together without sufficient warning or protection between the two. To make their design work, they had to assume drivers would be driving according to the law. They should have designed the system with the complete idiot driver in mind, just like any other road designed. To the designers' credit, I really doubt the final design was their first, second or third choice, but city leaders didn't want auto capacity reduced, so they were forced to design what they did.
So while drivers may be at fault in accidents, the design of the system is fundamentally flawed.
Mark
Maybe it's just a downtown problem.
Mark
I can concur with your statements, and that's why I feel that the NJ Turnpike was built way ahead of its time. Exits/Interchanges are located only at key connections with other major roads (a true limited access highway), it was designed with large shoulders, good visibility, and the ramps and acceleration lanes are properly designed - onramps are normally on a downgrade to make accelerating easier and offramps are normally on an upgrade to make decelerating easier, and the on/off lanes are long enough so you can safely merge in or slow down, respectively.
The dual/dual configuration in the northern section is also ingeneous because it makes it very easy to completely seperate autos from trucks/buses for an added margin of safety.
The only thing that is now seen as somewhat of a flaw is the fact that the highway is almost entirely straight, especially south of Elizabeth. Conducive to "highway hypnosis", but at the time it was considered a safety feature so you'd always have superior visability!
They make it feel safter to people psychologically if you ask me. Then they go faster and they got a false sense of safety. That's my opinion on the thing.
And a red light and a no left turn sign is good enought to me.
Tampa Road
And don't get me started on SR54, another abamination.
The problem with this philosophy is the following:
1. Speed among the motorist increase when roads are widened and leveled.
2. The quality of life (polution/noise) decreases when roads are redesigned to handle high speed traffic.
3. Overall traffic increases as the motorist discovers the wider road and efficiencies are lost.
4. Protecting the motorist often unprotects the cyclist/pedestrian. Once the roads are widened, the trees and other obstructions are removed to protect the motorist.
Please read. How to Protect Communities from Asphalt and Traffic Conservation Law Foundation Revised: January 1998
http://www.clf.org/pubs/street1.htm#chap1
Agreed.
As far as lrt/trolleys mixing with traffic, a LED no turn sign with a flashing strobe, or just two flashing yellow lights seem to work where I am. We haven't had hundreds of reckless accidents.
And as far as widening roads not leading to increased traffic, whoever says that is a shut-in. If they open a road and it's emptier and faster than what you use now, why wouldn't you use it?!?! Law of conservation.
It's been reported and studies show that widening roads does not alleviate traffic as the motorist will flock to these roads in larger numbers thus making the traffic worse. An argument can be made that grid lock traffic once the road is widened is necessary otherwise the money should not be spent in the first place. The same argument can be said for packed subways. You build a subway with the intent of having it packed or you wasted money on developing such a system in the first place.
You're correct in your statement. "Why wouldn't you use it?"
When thousands discover this new widened road it won't be empty and fast for very long. In fact, studies have shown the only way to decrease traffic is to close off roads to all motor traffic, make it very costly upon entering, limit or ban cars with single passengers or institude a policy of zero tolerance with traffic tickets.
In England, they sucessfully cut down traffic by 10% in charging the motorist a congestion fee. They realized the only way to decrease traffic was not in road widening but in making it costly for the motorist to enter the city.
In my neck of the woods, they are expanding the New Jersey turnpike to three lanes leading into the Holland tunnel. This road widening will not alleviate the traffic into the Holland tunnel but will make things worse as hundreds of new cars will funnel into two tunnels in greater numbers! We expanded route 1-9 North with numerous interchanges flowing into this four lane road which was redesigned for hi-speed traffic. The results have been abysmal. During rush hour, this road is a parking lot with cars traveling at 10 MPH or less! It was actually faster before when the road was full of potholes and traffic used to move as the motorist would choose alternatives like Kennedy Blvd.
If you want to build more hi-speed roads, do it in Kansas. There is no need to own a motor car in New York City. This is why we have the subways.
Metro’s light rail has had its 33rd crash.
A 78-year-old Houston woman turned left on a red light and struck a Metro rail train Wednesday in the Texas Medical Center.
The driver was ticketed for running a red light.
No one was hurt.
Metro’s light rail has the highest accident rate in the country."
I'm sorry, but I don't see a problem still. Does TX have lax traffic laws or enforcment?
If the lights Red, and you decide you want to make a left turn, especially if there's no left turn's there, no problem.
Take away the license, and mail a bill for damages.
Someone should start a website called Idiot of the Day. Take a picture of each accident and the cause, with possibly a pic of the person and put them online.
There was a block or two of the LRT route that's a pedestrian zone isn't there?
I need to find that article, that's CLASSIC!
http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/subsrvn3.htm
The photo you took here and that bus photo I described to you that I sent to you can be classified as Salaam Allah-style photos--He waits until the whole train/bus is in the photo, then snaps it off. ;-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
http://metrorama.free.fr/
Panoramas of Paris subway stations.
In the trains the old M1-3 seats were:
19.3"-19.3"-19.3" +Aisle+ 20"-20"
The M7's are:
19"-19.3"-19" +Aisle+ 19.2"-19.2"
So on the three seater sides the center seats are exactly the same size, and the outer and inner ones are only 0.3" smaller. On the two seater side, the seats are 0.8" smaller, but that is actually 0.2" bigger than the three seater side, and actally 0.1" larger than the three-seater sides were on the M1-3's.
Here are the articles:
The Skinny on the New Seats
From Dirty to New And We're Still Complaining
Also, the M7s are NOT replacing the entire electric fleet. Just SOME of the M1s. That said, there'd still be single level coaches for the atlantic and GCT runs.
It would be difficult and expensive. It definitely would NOT have been worth it.
That said, there'd still be single level coaches for the atlantic and GCT runs.
That would cause the creation of a third fleet incompatible with some lines. The MTA is on the outs with the 75 foot cars on the subway, why would they cause the same problem on the LIRR?
Adam
This is what I think late night (4) service should be like:
Brooklyn: Local from New Lots Avenue to Franklin Avenue, then express from Franklin Avenue to Borough Hall.
Manhattan: Express.
Bronx: Local.
Do you AWTP (agree with this post) or DWTP (disagree with this post)?
Why? TIA for all of your contributions.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Regards,
Jimmy
Not when Local stations do not have the ridership to justify such service. I can't think of any local line that is underserved. Maybe you can point one out to me.
Expresses give a few people a little more time at the cost of giving more people a LOT less time.
Again, explain a line where this happens.
Express Tracks should remain dormant when their use isnt mandated by local track capacity
So Fulton Av shouldn't have express service?
Time for bed.
Broadway IRT local (all times except weekday middays and very late nights), Lex IRT local (all times except weekday middays and very late nights), CPW local (weekends, evenings, and probably late nights) are three that come to mind. The outer borough locals seem to have adequate service, although I haven't ridden the R on upper 4th Avenue since the midday M was cut back and the weekend West End service reverted to the express.
In 2 out of 3 cases, sending an express service down the local track wouldn't solve the problem anyways.
I *must* be getting old ... I remember when the word "progress" was synonymous with "improvement." :(
But for folks along the way, it sure was the answer ...
What am I talking about. When trains get cut to 4 cars, they still run at 20 minute headways (.... the friggin G train.....)
The Night G seems to get along just fine.
I don't see the problem. If you're well rested, you should be okay.
Plan 8 hours. Get to either 207th or Lefferts or Far Rock, it's up to you where you begin your "two trips" ... Grab an A, get to the foamer glass. You're permitted to sit every now and then as required, but you've got to keep your eyes on the rails however you go about it.
Watch EVERY signal, observe EVERY speed sign, watch the iron for lineups down the road and above all, watch for EACH tripper off-side. With your left hand, press on your knee for about maybe 2 pounds of pressure while the train is moving. Rotate your right hand a couple of times for EACH stop.
When the train stops, you have to simulate a key insertion and rotate, stick your head out the doors and observe the platform. Rotate again as the doors close, BACK to the foamer glass. Repeat until the end of the run. NO getting off the train.
When you arrive at the terminal, walk to the other end of the train and let ONE train leave the station, then get on the NEXT one out. DO it all again.
When you get to where you started, you have one HALF HOUR on the platform (we'll call it lunch, but you can't leave the property) ... now do it ALL again. Folks usually get some religion after trying this out. See you tomorrow! :)
Seriously though, on a LONG run you'll see that there's enough to do just starting and stopping. Throw in the door works and you'll be ONE whipped puppy at the end of your double round-tripper. And count the number of trippers from end to end, you'll have two chances to get the count right. Purpose here is observing your iron, observing your platforms and all those hand movements. And don't let go of your left knee or you dump.
Folks who have tried this have had a newfound respect for what TWU folks go through EVERY day ... again, no offense intended - but the realities of what it takes to do the job are often deeper than many think ...
It's easy:
You operate a train. As it is, Many T/O's already have to push an extra button after they stop. So now they push the button, Open a window, look down the platform and then push another button. Then it's back to what you normally do. If having to look down a platform adds that much more to a job, then they shouldn't do this job.
I know difficult jobs. Back when I was still a doorman, I pulled a killer double shift. First, I did an 11pm-7am doorman shift. That's always a cakewalk. Then, there were a number of people who called out sick, so I got assigned to operate a Service elevator. Unfortunately, There were 4 construction jobs on that side of the building. What did that add up to? 6 hours standing with a 30 minute break. No sitting at all, and to add to that, if you want to get things moving along you have to help put the stuff on and off the elevator. Tired and everything, I still had to stop almost exactly at the landing, or else wheels from dollies won't roll on/off, OR, large objects won't fit in.
Not only this, but you have to deal with people who have been waiting as long as 10 minutes for you to show up. And no, you can't close the cab door.
Perhaps by your standards that's adequate service, but it's not adequate service by the standards NYCT applies to all other lines.
Running the 2 and 4 as locals during the overnight allows you to serve the Manhattan stations every 10 minutes. If you run those lines express, then stations like Christopher Street and Bleecker Street (which can be just as busy as the express stations during the overnight period) would have train service every 20 minutes -- which wouldn't make any sense.
CG
I don't remember how the 4/6 works, but the 2/1 come very close together, it really doesn't break up the wait.
The 4 and 6 are at 10 minute intervals northbound and then 9 or 11 minute intervals southbound.
From your observations, it appears theory and practice have diverged once again... I guess with the amount of late-night construction / garbage and money pick-up going on, it shouldn't be too surprising to see that they are often off-schedule during the overnight.
CG
I've found the "worst case" is just before the overnight schedule kicks in. Let's say I'm traveling home from Lincoln Center to Fulton Street. It could easily be a 10-minute wait for a southbound (1) at 66th St, and another 10-minute wait for the transfer to a (2) or (3) at Times Square, which therefore doubles the time it takes to get home.
Most people think it's an impossible dream.
Most people thought his dream of running passenger trains from Cape May Court House to Cape May City was a pipe dream, but he's been doing it for several years.
regular excursion train
chartered train
All but 1 of the remaining Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines Budd RDC's are on the property of Tony Macrie's Cape May Seashore Lines.
more P-RSL Budd Cars
Regards,
Jimmy
This maybe used for the 7 extention.
That is they go maybe 600 feet and then end at a pair of bumper blocks.
The idea is that (7) trains can arrive at Times Square at full speed, just like at any other station.
If those tail tracks were not there, trains woul have to enter the station at 5 MPH
Elias
BTW, extenting the line has another problem ... Port Auth tanks in the way :-(
Ah... er... What tanks might those be?
Most busses all fuel at their distal end of service, not in NYC, the only exception that I can think of being Grey Running Dog, which has its own shops elsewither in the city.
Elias
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Only if Mayor Mike's wishes come true :-(
The "East Side Access" has caused too much red ink at the MTA and Gov. George isn't going to write a check because he doesn't want to have to raise taxes in the State to pay for it.
NY State leadership without vision :-(
i have to say i would Assigned the R-160s to
R-160 (4 car units) 340 to East New York yard to J,M,Z Lines
R-160 (5 car units) 570 to 207th yard/Pitkin yard to A,C Lines
R-160 (5 car units) 500 to Coney Island yard to Q,B Lines
R-160 (5 car units) 290 to Jamaica yard to E,F Lines
R-160s should replace R-38, R-40M, R-40, R-42, R-44, R-44SIRR
So you would make the C train 10 cars, then? Hmmmmmmm. With 8-car trains you need 152 cars to make up the required 19 trains. With 10-car trains you need 190 cars. That's 38 cars that you just assigned unnecessarilly.
The A train take 38 trains or 380 60' cars. Oddly enough, 380 and 190 for the C (using 10 car trains) comes out to your 570 cars.
However look at current levels. 272 75' cars = 340 60' cars. That covers the R-44s add 148 R-32s and 196 R-38s and you actually need (at a minimum) 684 60' cars to maintain the current level of service. No add back the 38 cars that you added to the C line (when you made it 10 cars) and you have 722 cars for A & C service. Of course, you've not factored into the equation, extra cars needed because of the new fleet undergoing the certain modifications that will surface during the acceptance phase.
So you would make the C train 10 cars, then? Hmmmmmmm. With 8-car trains you need 152 cars to make up the required 19 trains. With 10-car trains you need 190 cars. That's 38 cars that you just assigned unnecessarilly.
The A train take 38 trains or 380 60' cars. Oddly enough, 380 and 190 for the C (using 10 car trains) comes out to your 570 cars.
However look at current levels. 272 75' cars = 340 60' cars. That covers the R-44s add 148 R-32s and 196 R-38s and you actually need (at a minimum) 684 60' cars to maintain the current level of service. No add back the 38 cars that you added to the C line (when you made it 10 cars) and you have 722 cars for A & C service. Of course, you've not factored into the equation, extra cars needed because of the new fleet undergoing the certain modifications that will surface during the acceptance phase.
Why not look at the rest of your post with the same sort of analysis aand you may want to re-think your numbers.
Well I expect it's the planning staff that really do the work. I am really curious whether this kind of micromanagement occur as much at the NYCT as it does at the MBTA. Here, the chairman REALLY gets to assign cars.
AEM7
David
Over the years in gubbamint service, I've had the opportunity to work with many "chairmen" of several state agencies and there are enough commonalities that I'd throw this out to give a better understanding of what these who serve "at the pleasure of the Governor" actually DO up there in the "ivory tower" ... at times it's quite interesting, amusing and at the same time has its share of pathos ...
A "Chairman" is a PURE political appointee assigned by the Governor to oversee a POLITICAL MISSION in an agency. Like bishops, their job is to act as a representative of the pope, responsible for guiding the bureaucracy in specific directions and to report back to the Governor. A "Chairman" oversees other appointees of the Governor (and perhaps prior appointees of previous Governors whose terms of office have not yet expired) who form a governmental equivalent of a "Board of Directors" who ultimately guide every nuance of what an agency does and how it functions.
The reason why I'm saying this is that if where the R-160's go is important to the GOVERNOR, then the Chairman of the agency *WILL* count cars and divvy them up, and make sure that it HAPPENS. In the greater scheme of politics, the head of an agency is just another brown-nosed droid in the machine works and is held MOST accountable for which way the political winds blow TODAY. And heads of agencies roll for the STUPIDEST things, should something splash on the Governor's shoes that didn't originate from within His (royal "his") own suit. And even THEN, if the Governor takes ANY heat, byebye Chairman, INCOMING! :)
The function of a "Chairman" is to GUIDE the policies of an agency, to advocate among the other appointees to the "board" specific political "mission statements" (whims?) of the "second floor" (Governor's office) ... and while Senators and Assembly members will contact the "Chairman" with their own constituents desires and wishes, ultimately the "Chairman" answers *ONLY* to the governor and no one else. This, merely to explain who pulls the strings and WHY if Brighton riders start pulling enough p*nises in the Governor's party and cause the Governor to be annoyed by complaints, then Brighton riders WILL get the "new trains" just to SHUT THEM UP and make them go away happy. Even IF this was not what the MTA wanted to do. TRIPLE that reality in an election year.
But if political heat is applied in an organized way and it splashes on the Governor's shoes, you can rest assured that Peter Kalikow will be down on his knees blowing whoever is necessary to make Paturkey go pick on someone else. If a handful of people have complaints and they contact the governor, Bruno or their politicos, Kalikow will tell an agency head to go form a study group and write up a report for him to pass along to the governor or the legislators who are rattling the cage. If it's a larger number of people or worse, the *PRESS* who are splashing on the shoes, then Kalikow will likely be stuck doing his OWN "fact-finding" and HE will have to write the report personally. If EVERYBODY's jumping up and down, he may be required to WORK a midnight shift in order to provide the necessary "what's going on here" to the Governor. It's ALL about pleasing the Paturkey, thus "serves at the pleasure of the Governor" ... same for the other members of the board.
Katherine N. Lapp is the Executive Director of the MTA - HER job is equivalent to a corporate CEO in actually running the agency, nuts and bolts, finance, projects, operations, things like that. "Chairmen" however are the political operators of the agency and their purpose is STRICTLY as a surrogate for the Governor.
But YES, it's conceivable that back like 1970, if every politician's jumping up and down over "why are *MY* consituents being hosed with the 'old cars?'" and otherwise jumping up and down and making the governor look bad, you can *COUNT* on Kalikow sitting there at his desk divvying up R-160's ... you can *BANK* that, no joke. I know folks don't appreciate me going into politics and belittling out (ahem, kaff) "leaders" ... but it REALLY IS LIKE THAT. :(
Every time I see complaints here on subtalk about this route or that route, local or express, I can only sit here and chuckle at the strappies and others who've NEVER realized whose balls to squeeze. Want RESULTS? Oh wait, Paturkey - our "absentee governor" is off somewhere in the deep south fundraising for Shrub. Meanwhile, we STILL ain't got no budget.
Ever WONDER why the MTA is like a crate of bowling balls? I just explained. Forest Gump rules. :)
Need to explain that "Chairman" thing a *BIT* deeper.
CHAIRMEN are told by the governor, "new trains, eh? Will they be SHINY? Can I alert the media and have MY picture taken with them AND will *I* look good standing NEXT to this 'new train?'" D0 you REALLY think the Governor, who travels EXCLUSIVELY in a heavily-armored recreational vehicle would set FOOT on the subway with the "great unwashed?" MAYBE for a photo op. Say what you will about "Doomberg," he REALLY DOES ride the subway ... REALLY. EXCEPTIONAL in MY book. :)
As to the 143's, if the Governor CARED about "those subway users" then there would be 143's on *EVERY* line regardless of their "new tech" ... TRUST me, talking "tech" to Paturkey is like talking to this phucking WALL. His eyes glaze over if it ain't about money. :(
Back in the 70's when the 42's were being deployed and the 44's were JUST coming in, EVERY line in the city got some "air conditioned cars" amidst the 27/30's and the arnines. EVERYBODY got a bing-bong back then. WHY? Because ROCKEFELLER wanted to be Vice President, that's WHY. PANDER bear. When a politician CARES about "bad media" and a "deteriorating subway system" then (as Will Smith said in "MIB II") "that old busted joint" gets replaced with "new hot." ... "OLD and BUSTED, NEW HOT." :)
The "new cars" were INTENDED for the SAS. Heh. Won't go THERE. Between LINDSAY *demanding* relief to bring people back to the subway, ROCKEFELLER *really* had his panties (won't go THERE either, or his penchant for lactating ... uhhh, nevermind) in a twist. Bottom line, they showed up on the JAMAICA EL! :)
It's ***ALL*** about politics ...
Then there's dedicated folks who work for state agencies who work their BUTTS off to do the RIGHT thing (like CBTC as a stopgap on the way to "progress") who fight their OWN little wars in their OWN little fiefdoms to TRY to bring the politicians and political hacks KICKING AND SCREAMING into the next century. *I* was one of those. In case anyone ever wondered why I *DESPISE* politicians. I was a CUOMO appointee, and "little hitler" is someone I *loathe* the *MOST* ... that arrogant sumanobeechay ... :(
The state of the subways though is DIRECTLY Paturkey ... no one ELSE in politics matters.
I agree with SelkirkTMO mostly about Albany...their concern is how the public views them...and I want to keep my job. 'Albanese' have entered the pit only on special occasions and NEVER got their hands dirty. Maintaining and operating NYCTA Subways is a nasty/dirty job few give us thanks for. REMEMBER 911 and those no longer amongst us who aren't present to go to work everday, I get dirty for the survivors. CI Peter
Managers assigned to the mainway often like to put together "tableaus of justification" until they come to realize that even more questions will be raised than if they just handed over the receipts. Been there, done that, swept up after the elephants. :)
Rmadillos would scuba.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Mark
Elias
The first cars transfered were 2505,2517 and 2646.
The next two was 2509 and one other.
I have looked for quite some time for the # of the fifth car and I finally found it. It was 2513.
A picture of this car in service on the SIRT appears on Page 80 of "NEW YORK TRANSIT MEMORIES" by Harold A Smith.
This might be of interest to the LIRR and SIRT fans.
Larry,RedbirdR33
-Stef
Your right Joe. I must have been half asleep when I posted that one.
Larry,RedbirdR33
The 2500's (control motors) were class MP72c, not MP85.
The 2600 car was a MP72T.
It was a great trip, we covered a lot of bases today! It was Northern Blvd, and Dubba U from the Straps, and I on the trip.
First we met up on the downtown platform at 42nd street and 6th avenue. We spotted this R-32 with a wrong rollsign and a crush loaded V:
We got on an F train and went to Delancey Street to catch an M. We took the M to Myrtle avenue. Along the way we were greeted by the track inspection car going the other way:
We got off at Myrtle and transferred to a J train. We took it to 121st street, and walked back to Lefferts blvd. We got on a Q10 there:
We took the Q10 to Liberty avenue and got on the A train. It was my first visit to Lefferts blvd on the A line. There, 104th street, and Rockaway blvd were photo stops:
At Rockaway blvd we crossed over and got an a Far Rockaway bound A train. We made a photo stop at Howard Beach - JFK:
Another Photo stop was made at Broad Channel where we got on the shuttle:
We took the shuttle to 116th street and had lunch at the "Last Stop Cafe." I reccomend that as a lunch stop.
After lunch we got on the Q53 and went all the way to Woodside.
While waiting for the 7 back to Manhattan, I snapped this pic of an LIRR train:
We took the 7 train to 5th avenue, and transferred to the B train, coming full circle. We took the B to Newkirk avenue. We then got on a Q local train to Avenue H:
Also while at Avenue H, 4 trains on all 4 tracks passed by. It was madness trying to get all 4 in the same shot!
After that we got on a Q local train and went to Brighton Beach.
We took the Q68 to Coney Island, and I finally got a decent shot of a C40lf:
After touring the Coney Island station for a bit we got on the D train. Along the way back to Manhattan we saw a few sights, like finding this redbird:
We got off at Pacific street and got on the N. Dubba U got off at Canal and got on the 6. Northern Blvd and I went to Times Square, and transferred to the shuttle. We parted ways there, he went into Grand Central, and I went to the surface to run an errand.
All in all it was a great trip. Whenever I meet up with some Straps to do a railfan trip, it's a bash!
Wow, amazing shot at Avenue H. You got lucky, that usually only happens between Avenue M and Kings Highway.
BTW, did you check your E-Mail? I sent you a couple of things you may be interested in...
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
From a distance, it looks like you can see the numbers 138 on the number plate.
The car number might be 8138, which would make it an R27, or, (more of a long shot) R10 3138. Whatever it is, it's a B-division car.
It appears to be near a school, probably PS 248, which is near the D line, but PS 248's car is R16 #6452.
Upon closer inspection, especially from the distance that picture was taken, the 452 could be made to look like a 138, so I'd say that that's R16 #6452 at PS 248 in Brooklyn.
Always great pictures John.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
During what period of time? When it last ran on concourse it had 8 cars.
Back a long time ago, the CC even ran R46s. I have no clue how long those trains were.
Recall that when the TA tried to do the same thing on the White Plains Rd/Dyre line, with all 5 trains to one terminal and all 2 trains to the other, it got stuffed by the politics.
And, of course, the new Manny B service pattern has service to both trunks (6th Ave and Broadway) from both branches (4th Avenue and Brighton), in spite of all the switching that requires. Of course there is no cross-platform transfer between the two branches, and Brighton riders who want weekend 6th Avenue service have pointed out infinitum.
Your recollection is flawed. The TA's plan concerned only the portion south of 180th, not the terminal locations. The TA's plan was to have all 2's and WPR 5's operate express and only Dyre Ave 5's operate local. The problem with this plan was that 50% of the passengers were be served by 25% of the trains. That was the crux of the "politics" against the change.
If you are correct, I mis-remembered. I recall that all #5s would move to WPR and run express, while the #2 would go to Dyre and run local, and the objection was the Dyre would lose express service without a transfer.
Hmmm, a return to the 1950s/1960s service pattern. The upside would've been that Dyre Av would have had 24/7 service to Manhattan and Brooklyn.
No, the service pattern you mentioned was wrong. In 1998-99, NYCT attempted to change rush hour thru express service by making the #2 and < 5 > trains express between East 180th St and 3rd Ave/149, while the Dyre 5 will be the local. Although this plan would've improved service by eliminating the bottleneck north of East 180th, the loss of Dyre express service caused an uproar and NYCT scrapped the plan before it was to be implemented.
There was never any mention about the 2 and 5 lines swapping back to the 1950's terminals, there is far more late night ridership on the WPR branch than on the NYW&B Railway Dyre Ave branch. So logic dictates the #5 should remain as the Dyre shuttle while the #2 has direct 24/7 service to East 241/Wakefield.
IIRC there is a switch on the WPR line north of where the Dyre line merges in, so they wouldn't have to share anything.
Oh I doubt that. The switch was just six years ago.
I guess this was ended to make things simpler reduce switching, though I'm not sure it does.
I understand that it was purely for the ease of the TA. At that time, the "B" just recently received the R68As. The TA was in this phase of each subway yard maintaining similar cars. Since the Concourse Yard was maintaining the R68s and 207th St Yard was maintaining the R38s, the TA decided to swap terminals between the "B" and "C", thus the R32s and R38s on the "C" can be maintained at 207th and the R68As, which are similar to R68s can be maintained (though light) at Concourse.
If "ease of the TA" means subway cars have a shorter distance to go to the yard, this helps passengers too. every train that has a longer "deadhead" run to a yard or from a yard back into service occupying a revenue track or crossing a revenue switch can cause service delays.
If the demand for direct 8th Av service (on a local train, mind you) was insufficient to justify what I described above, then the TA made a good decision. Bt you guys can debate that at length.
If you read my post "ease of the TA", I meant swapping terminals for the sake of keeping trains of similar types in the same yard.
Kapish?
Since the TA cannot and should not mix trains unnecessarily in yards (complicates maintenance) that leads back to my point, which is we shouldn't create longer than necessary deadhead runs to reach the yard.
The point is he said that the TA has swapped terminals of the B & C for the sake of simplicity.
Ok, but B trains were shopped at CI, not concourse, during this period of time. So, it really didn't matter where the B trains were stored.
The real breaker was the "C" train. Maybe it's me, but it seems that since this swap, a lot more C trains are R38.
Of course, to solve the problem with the C train, they could've just used only Pitkin cars, and stored a few night trains at concourse (they have to store a few night "B" trains there now anyway.)
Just a coincidence. The reason for the increase in R38s is because Jamaica needed more cars, so they took R32s from Pitkin as well as Coney Island.
The cars belong to the YARDS, not to the routes.
if the (B) and (C) were switched, the *cars* would STAY where they are.
Elias
David
WRONG!
I remember the stink locals put up when the R-68s on the Q were replaced by R-40s in 1997.
Peace,
ANDEE
Completely wrong. The seats are vastly different.
David
Regular riders might not know the difference between an R-68 and R-68A, but they're not so blind as not to realize the difference between an R-68 and an R-40. It's a very railfan attitude to think that just because someone can't tell apart an R-32 and R-38 they can't tell apart a Low V from an R-142.
David
And I have adjusted by not riding the express train in the mornings since then.
That is an excellent idea.
1. The manangement for the A/C and the B/D are the same. Keeping the lines together keeps management simpler. Instead of Having a 6th avenue line manager and 8th avenue line manager at Bedford Park and 168 they only need 1 for each terminal.
2. The Cars, they used the same fleet until after February 22nd.
Even with 2 gone as long as #1 remains, don't expect 1. But the C should come back to increase transit options.
* Graffiti started basically around 1971 with "Taki 183", and grew to epic proportions when NY Times carried an article about Taki sometime in early 1972.
* 1975 is when a report came out damning the mayor's office for focusing on graffiti and not other, more serious problems. Mayor's office instructed MTA to cut graffiti-fighting spending, but the spending in fact increased
* 1975 is also when the new graffiti washer liquid came out, and 1977 was when new graffiti resistent paint was applied, but apparently these did not help cure the graffiti problem
* The major reason for the recurrance of graffiti was said to be the courts, since no specific law existed which would allow heavy penalities for graffiti writers once arrested -- the maximum sentence was one year's imprisonment for trespassing and disorderly conduct
I have one question, which the book (published 1982) does not answer:
Why has graffiti all but disappeared? Did the legislation change, or did new graff-resistent compound/washing methods/stainless steel cars finally abait the trend? Or did it just become uncool?
Frankly, judging by the photos, the graffiti we see today are quite lame compared to the way it was in the 70's. The inside car tags were ugly, in fact, really ugly. The whole-car murals were really quite amazing (and I thought the ones I saw on the MBTA were big -- they were not compared to the serious ones from the 70's).
Considering how big a problem it was then, I am surprised that it has basically all disappeared now. The writer was quoting some figures: at one point the MTA's TARGET was to have 50% of the cars in service not being vandalized, and at that time they consistented FAILED to meet that target! These days, if graffiti affects even 5% of the equipment, it is considered a serious epidemic!
I don't think that is what happened, however -- the graffiti instruments that they talked about: the large pens, the large spray cans -- continues to be available and continues to be USED in modern graffiti. You see the same instruments and techniques used in graffiti dated between 2000 and 2004. There is just a lot less of it now than years ago. Why?
I am betting it is legislation change, but I'm not sure. Even other forms of vandalism seem to have decreased compared to the "deferred maintenance" years. This includes the age-old practice of breaking windows in abandoned buildings, scrawling in wet sidewalk paving, and painting the building themselves. Did kids just decided to start playing Nintendos and snorting cocaine (or other drugs) instead? What do bored teenagers do now?
Though not train related I can give my own experience.
In the early '80s I taught "Theater Arts" in several city high schools, at that time the building, staircases, and yards were covered with multiple layers of spray paint and Magic Marker, the prevailing theory was that it was pointless to paint over or even wash as this "just cleans the slate" as one custodian explained to me.
Around the time I left the system in 1983 the B.of Ed adopted what would now be called a zero tolerance policy, money was allocated for paint, chemicals and an hour of overtime each day for a janitorial worker to remove any marks of vandalism.
In the schools where the money was used as intended it was effective in frustrating these "artists' and they just gave up. In some schools the Custodian used this money for purposes of his own and, for awhile, untill supervisors cracked down, you could easily tell which schools had crooked head janitors by the presense of graffiti.
Where I live, on the upper east side of Manhattan, it seems that store owner and building supers have gotten complacent about graffiti and slowly it is starting to return.
-Lino
Blackpool (Virgin)
Fort William (Sleeper)
Hull (GNER/Hull Trains)
Various Welsh towns -- Holyhead, if I remember right
Why is the through train such a big f**king deal?
I'm looking at the South Yorkshire PTE map here and since I've lived in Yorkshire, I feel qualified to comment: Given where the GNER main line lies, it makes sense to have through service from Bradford (diesel only), Leeds, Wakefield, York, and Doncaster. Once the through train from London reaches Leeds, it could travel out along any of the suburban branches to enhance through service from any one branch, at the detriment of all others. Bradford seems like the logical choice. At some point, it begins to make sense to go down the West Coast Mainline rather than the East Coast Mainline, so extending GNER service much beyond Bradford would be pointless. Where does the Midland Mainline service terminate? Sheffield?
Is there any point in extending the West Coast Manchester service via Halifax or Dewsbury to Leeds (forgetting the fact that the line isn't electrified for the moment). Is there any point in extending the GNER service up to Glasgow via the Settle & Carlisle? Should there be fewer trains per day but more diverse routings, or should there be many trains per day but monotonious routings?
I am guessing it makes no sense for an "InterCity" service to penetrate any of the branches. However this is routinely done in Scotland (GNER running beyond Edinburgh to Perth, Dundee, Inverness, and Aberdeen). In fact Aberdeen manages to justify four trains per day from GNER. I'd think that some of those Yorkshire branches can do better than the Aberdeen branch in terms of passenger loadings.
AEM7
Looks like I've managed to start something with my flippant posting about how not to draw a railway map :-D
Pssssssst... you've linked to the West Yorkshire map!
Where does the Midland Mainline service terminate? Sheffield?
Except for a few trains a day which terminate at Leeds, York or (in Summer) Scarborough.
At some point, it begins to make sense to go down the West Coast Mainline rather than the East Coast Mainline, so extending GNER service much beyond Bradford would be pointless.
Interesting question. Let's presume there are three basic ways to the North: the Erewash Valley Midland (with its variant via Derby), the Trent Valley Line (via Stoke to Manchester, via Crewe to elsewhere), and the ECML. Any other route will be more longwinded and therefore downright silly.
MIDLAND TIMES (from London St Pancras, via Erewash Valley except *, stops Leicester)
Nottingham * 1:32
Chesterfield (avoiding Nottingham) 1:53
Manchester 2:42
Sheffield 2:11
Doncaster 2:38 (loses to ECML)
Wakefield Westgate (NOT Doncaster) 2:36 (loses to ECML)
Leeds City (NOT Doncaster) 2:53 (loses to ECML)
York (via Leeds) 3:19 (loses to ECML)
York (via Doncaster) 3:04 (loses to ECML)
WCML TIMES (from London Euston via Trent Valley)
Manchester 2:44 (loses to MML!)
The WCML, incapable of fairly defending Manchester (MML's real timings only don't work out through stupid pathing South of Leicester), can hardly hope to attack Yorkshire
ECML TIMES (from London King's Cross)
Nottingham 1:36 (loses to MML by 4 minutes - fair play!)
Doncaster 1:32
Wakefield Westgate 1:57
Leeds City 2:14
York 1:49
In short, there's no real point to extending MML where ECML can easily go - even Nottingham's scraping it a bit. Likewise, MML can outdo the WCML, so an invasion of Yorkshire from that part is out of the question. As far as lines which may be suitable for through trains to London, I would suggest:
ECML:
- Scarborough
- Bradford (either)
- possibly Settle & Carlisle (no comparative timings)
MML:
- Huddersfield via Penistone, maybe with a few trains running through to Bradford.
One reason for the British distrust of connections is that timekeeping on British railways (with or without the capital R!) has often been less than wonderful, and connections are not always held to await late-running incoming trains. The non-holding of connections has worsened since privatisation; if the two trains are not run by the same train operating company, then forget it.
Some major towns just have to put up with a connectional service, but if they used to have a through service to London, they want to go on having one. Biggish towns without through trains to Lonodn include Grimsby and Lincoln - change at Newark Northgate, Mansfield (which for some years was the biggest town in Europe with no train service at all!) - change at Nottingham, Middlesborough - change at Darlington, and the list goes on. Aberystwyth, not a large town but the most isolated university town in the UK, used to have a through service to London, but now it's change at Birmingham New Street.
Probably the worst one for this is what happens at Lichfield Trent Valley (a really badly named station - it's not quite in the Trent Valley and it's certainly nowhere near Lichfield), where the few expresses a day to London at Low Level won't wait for late running connections from Lichfield City to arrive at High Level. Nevertheless, if the trains are on time, you do get a hell of a lot of people from Cross-City North stations (mainly Sutton Coldfield and Four Oaks) using this connection rather than brave the hellhole that is Birmingham New St.
Aberystwyth, not a large town but the most isolated university town in the UK
With the possible exception of Lampeter (Llanbedr-pont-Steffan).
True, nobody rode it. But on the other hand, the more trains that are taken away, the less useful it becomes, whatever ridership is left will evaporate.
It has become more and more depressing as you look at the route map and remember the cuts. It has gotten to the point where, from the Northeast, it is almost impossible to ride the train anywhere except to Chicago.
Midwestern cities with no train service from the Northeast: Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis. These places are just utterly impossible to get to.
It is also true that neither Ohio nor Indiana has funded Amtrak substantially.
Given that's the case, I think the more logical thing to do might be to consolidate all Northeast-Midwest trains to one corridor, basically mirroring the old Conrail, with a big merge in Cleveland.
Demand economics suggest that running one train a day on three routes beats running three trains a day on one route. This is true, if no one can drive. But since the mainlines through Ohio, Indiana and Michigan are less than 40 miles apart, that should have been consolidated years ago.
I can't see NS being very happy with this idea.
That *is* part of the NE corridor. It is called south-west division of the NEC.
: ) Elias
AEM7
What is the Royal Train empty stock? I would imagine it is not 5X00.
What is 1X99?
What is 1Z01/1Z00?
What other services are permitted to use the 'X' Region Code?
AEM7
What is the Royal Train empty stock? I would imagine it is not 5X00.
Presumably it would be 5X01. Anything else would be illogical.
What other services are permitted to use the 'X' Region Code?
No idea.
'Grove' was used for the Reigning Monarch and 'Deepdene' for other members of the Royal family. ( Grove was the name of the LMS HQ and Deepdene the SR HQ )
For the train to fall off a trestle, must have been some seriously damaged rails ... CP is a good railroad, however, with Mulroney's hacking to death with a kitchen knife, CN's a bloody basket case. Cn's had a REALLY bad time of it lately, so for those few who defend CSX as an "OK railroad," YEAH ... there's WORSE.
Whatever happened though is VERY bad news ... a death or two isn't all THAT much of a surprise in a wreck, but the number of SERIOUS INJURIES is nothing less than BREATHTAKINGLY BAD. :(
Wonder what HAPPENED? :(
Mark
The article says that the engine didn't leave the tracks. They say the train was travelling at just 15 MPH when it derailed. What could have happened to have the trailing cars derail (and land on their side no less) at such a slow speed?
Hard to fault the journalists on this one at this point, though. So far it's been just a few hours of daylight on an accident in a remote location -- so they're probably just reporting what they've been told.
CG
2) It was in a SWAMP: a rail could have easily rolled over after the locomotive passed over it.
3) It was on a tresstle (albeit only about 5 or 6 feet tall) and a derailment there would have tipped the train off.
4) It is possible that the cars derailed before the trestle, and go dumped over when they arrived at the trestle.
5) My speculation is as good as anybody else's at this point. You get what you paid for.
Elias
The LAST wreck on that line with the bridge that got hit by a barge was at least justifiable - tracks thrown sideways by the barge collision, locomotive bursts into flame - fuel spill on the water spreads it to the coaches, (ahem) "customer flambee". :(
Something was SERIOUSLY WRONG there - PITY Amtrak has to suck posterior for funds - I'd BET that if it wasn't RED state, Amtrak would have cancelled the damned train and said, "when you FIX that broke-ass railroad, we'll run on it again" ... instead, if Amtrak cited safety issues in a RED state and just STOPPED the train, there'd be HELL to pay. It's *ALL* about POLITICS. Suck ass, or get chopped. :(
After the 2001 Howard Street tunnel fire in Baltimore, CSX tried to blame the City for the derailment, claiming it was the water leak (A 44" water main at Lombard & Howard burst, causing water to cascade into the tunnel. Only problem was that the flow meters at Ashburton and Montebello treatment plants - the main was one of four transfer mains that link the two plants - didn't record the break until an hour AFTER the CSX crew called in the derailment and the subsequent fire.) that caused the problem by undermining the track.
The BIG BOOM on 9/11 drove our mess right off the front pages, but I did learn that NTSB cited CSX for (guess what) track problems for the derailment and the City and CSX countersued for various damages. I'll ask my brother-in-law (who works in the City Finance Department) if he knows anything more.
Acording to a contact in the FRA, CSX is still on the watch list for track, and it's not gonna go away for a long while.
In case anybody doesn't-know-who, the derailment occurred on Canadian National track, formerly Illinois Central.
By the way, a railfan snapped a photo of the ill-fated train in Louisiana earlier in the day.
April 6 Coty of New Orleans photo by "Porkchop"
CN is a public traded corporation owned by investors worldwide. Its shares are traded on the Toronto (CNR) and New York (CNI) stock exchanges.
Remember all them Explorers flipping over? That was a persons job to calculate what's cheaper, recalling all the Ford Explorers, or letting them flip over with lawsuits. Guess which was cheaper?
Or how about the stories where the owner/investors decides it's too expensive to replace a vending machine in a hotel thats shorting out with exposed wiring. Guess what happened there(hint the kid isn't around nomore).
Not to mention the poor state of our infrastructure and the gridlock in some area's out west.
It's as backwards as Clearfield, Pennsylvania.
Oh wait, what was the reason for the NYC subway system to not be privately run anymore again?
What does any of this alphabet soup has to do with private ownership of infrastructure in a market economy?
You're answer is in the topic and one of the previous posts talking about 15mph speeds. I'm fine with private trains, private stock, private spurs, but they don't seem to be able to keep up on mainlines.
Look at our situatation out west with the ports or some other lines with a deficient infrastructure. It's hurting the market if the goods can't be picked up if that's the cause. And there sure ain't enough trucks, and even less now with diesel prices this high.
Or you can forget all that and ask why they haven't made a privately run I-95 version 2?
Plus, safety sometimes takes a backseat to a market driven economy, as the last 150 years of history will attest.
Alright, so the privates haven't found enough capital to invest in order to generate the necessary capacity, because there's not enough return-on-investment, since transportation services are "underpriced". How would you find the capital if it were all publicly owned, where all the investment has to be made from tax revenues?
Plus, safety sometimes takes a backseat to a market driven economy, as the last 150 years of history will attest.
Safety does indeed sometimes take a back seat -- or more accurately, sometimes a private operations can become stressed out to the extent that safety-critical faults are overlooked. Sometimes, the public accepts it (e.g. American Airlines aircraft loss over Long Island back in early 2002). Other times, the public does not (e.g. ValuJet aircraft loss over Everglades in 1995 or so). There are also plenty of examples where accidents have occured due to a public agency overlooking safety-critical faults (e.g. Amtrak-MBTA accident in Boston Back Bay station in the early 1990s). How come a public sector operation is automatically safer, by your thesis?
*How come a public sector operation is automatically safer, by your thesis?*
They go by a different set of rules. Enough SUV's flip over a grassy median, up goes an ugly guardrail. Prisons are public aren't they?
I don't know, I think there needs to be some type of change to bring us up to better shape.
The new TEA LU transportation bill is goign to set a precident for trillions of new toll plaza's and roads, maybe something can be done to change our rail infrastructure too to keep up.
It may make things easier to get commuter rail up and running instead of CSX negiotiations.
As far as kickbacks go/bribes, I guess we should just hope the rest of the country does operate the same way Philly does and it's just an outlier.
Of course under my plan, we won't have humorous news stories like this anymore I guess:
-----
SANFORD -- With mortgage interest rates around 5 percent, Eric McCarty figured now was the perfect time to build his $200,000 home on a heavily wooded lot near the north shore of Lake Jesup.
But when he tried to get a building permit, Seminole County officials derailed his plans. McCarty didn't have a signed agreement with CSX Transportation for permission to cross the railroad tracks leading to his property on North Carolina Run. Without it, no permit would be issued.
The agreement doesn't come cheap.
To cross the tracks into the subdivision -- the only way in -- CSX wants property owners to pay an annual maintenance fee of up to $2,000 and take out $3 million each in liability insurance...
-----
I'll just pick on this one...
(Although the private sector does a MUCH better job of running ANYTHING than any government could.)
Why are commuter rail agencies bogged down in negeotions with existing railroads? BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO CHEAP to build their own ROWs! If something needs money spent on it (and it does), where is that money easier to come by, you think? In the public sector where the political will flip-flops every few years, where keeping taxes LOW is job 1!
Take a look at BNSF tracks out here: Well ballasted, well drained, well maintained, well signaled. Why? Because this line is a money-maker for them and they cannot afford to have slow trains. Wherever you see efficiency, there you will see money, big money, being made by share holders (who are just a bunch of people like you and me... and the biggest "investors" are money funds which are nothing more than groups of little investors who have gotten together.) Yes there are "Fat-Cats" out there, and they do have to make investments too, for a bank a 2% is going to do them no good at all! But they invest in well run companies, with proven track records.
If a freight line is not well maintained, then it isn't making money, and ought to be removed, or degraded to branch service. If AMTK cannot find a decent ROW to ride on, then maybe the ought to anull the train. Just why are they running a 9 car train with 12 crew for 48 passengers? BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SAYS THEY HAVE TO! And did the government come up with even one penny to maintain that ROW? I don't think so!
Methinks you can take Socialism and SHOVE it.
Elias
* Just why are they running a 9 car train with 12 crew for 48 passengers?*
9 car train because it's easier than dropping the cars off somewhere probably.
48 passengers because apparently the service is dismal. how do you expect to lure anyone onto a train when you're doing 15? Least the Miami to NY trains take the same amount of time as greyhound, so I'm not sure how full they are, though i know there's more than 48 peole on those trains.
And they question ridership on HSR. But heck, least on I-55 I doubt there's any slow orders, and I don't have to negiotiate with the state of mississippi to drive down that highway and what time i'm allowed to.
I'm starting to see a stronger case for tolling interstates here. And transportation/infrastructure and economy is a public issue now. This isn't the roaring '20's anymore. Lassez-faire capitalism is gone and the 8 hour workday is standard now(though most professions I could see a 10 hour day on a 4 day week). Without public oversight, look what happens to pollution and water quality when "costs" get in the way.
Really, now? Maybe you never drive on Interstates during construction season. Rebuilding 10 to 20 miles per summer, before you are half done, you have to start all over again. (Or maybe, being down south they do not have frost to worry about.)
Admittedly, slow order zones out here typically drop highway speeds from 75 mph to 65 mph, but it is still a slow order zone.
Or if you want another example of a "Slow Order Zone" just you try to drive through the Lincoln Tunnel approaches at anything faster than 5 mph.
HaHaHa.....
Elias
I honestly don't know what it's like to drive on a road withOUT construction!(and i'm really not joking). But it seems to me no matter how many signs you put, how many construction workers are in jeopardy, no one understand you're supposed to slow down and pay attention.
55mph is still faster than 15 too! Of course I hope that slow order is for a very short stretch.
I honestly don't know what it's like to drive on a road withOUT construction!(and i'm really not joking). Plus i got a real fun 39mile one. But it seems to me no matter how many signs you put, how many construction workers are in jeopardy, no one understand you're supposed to slow down and pay attention. But I guess that's what you have to deal with when you put millions of untrained people behind the wheel.
55mph is still faster than 15 too! Of course I hope that slow order is for a very short stretch.
I agree with you. 55 is a fine speed for a construction zone. But our base speed is 75 MPH, the work zone speed is posted at 65. But our highways and ROWs are wide with good separation between the active lane and the work zone. The deal is that they are using a single side for two way traffic, and the speed limit for state roads with two way traffic is 65 mph. They will flag it if there are other obstructions.
Elias
But the thing is, we go back to the High speed rail arguement. I'm assuming New Orleans to Jackson is almost the same distance as Orlando to Miami, with less traffic possibly(these two cities aren't the same size).
As a consumer, flying and driving are pretty similiar to me for that distance in terms of duration, though I'd rather drive.
If you can't run a train faster than it takes to drive, or more cost effectively, what chance do you have? If you don't have good rails and good speeds, youc an't get the demand in the first place. It's a cycle.
It is not so much that the train is faster or slower... it is that the schedule sucks.
For a train service to be sucessful you have to have hourly or better service. It is not that the train is faster: It might be slower... It might LOOK like it is more expensive, but actually it is cheaper.
The distance from here to Bismarck is 75 miles. It costs .31 a mile to run a car. Round Trip car fare then is 46.50. So a car is only a bargin if you stuff more people into it.
I'd gladly ride the train to Bismarck, if there was a train, but there isn't and never again will be.
Remember that when most railroads were built, they were competing with a horse, not an automobile. Today a train must compete not only with an autombile, but also with an airplane. If the airplanes were not subsidized by the Federal and Local governments to hell and back they'd be gone already. But Railroads: They gotta build thier own ROWS and pay taxes on them.
Still HSR has a place. New lines built on existing Interstate ROWs, service every hour, and good local transportation in target cities. Eventually it *will* have to be done. Fuel prices will go up, they have to, we are paying the lowest fuel prices in the world.
1) Eliminate all Federal Highway Funding
2) Eliminate all Federal Fuel Taxes
3) States and Regions will impose the fuel and use taxes, tolls and fares.
4) State and Regional Authorities will spend the money to get the most miles for the most people at the least cost.
5) Private investment is a *big* posibility, probaply not as corporate investment, but in the form of bond issues, no doubt about it.
6) an infrastructure needs to by amortized (paid for) over its life span. A highway is lucky to have a 20-3 year life span, an rail line quite a bit more. A car is lucky to have a 5-10 year life span, we have rail equipment in the 40 year old category that is still in good condition.
Elias
AEM7
Mark
No. Several trains a day at rush hour will never justify the construction of a new rail corridor -- probably not even an additional set of tracks alongside an existing one. What the public agency ought to do is to negotiate fairly with host railroads. BNSF is very content in running trains for Metra, because they make a profit from the operation and collect ontime bonuses year after year and they get public investment in their infrastructure which benefits freight operations too. Metra is obviously willing to pay full costs for the capacity they consume. Lots of start-ups either do not understand the cost of railroading, or are unwilling to pay it, so of course CSX rebuffs them every time. CSX is actually one of the more fiscally-aware roads out there -- too much, some would say.
AEM7
If you don't have a problem with an user fee, why should infrastructure be publicly owned? The only need is for the government to specify service levels and then contract it out to a private sector service provider. Now I am not saying you HAVE to contract it out; government ownership works too, but there's no reason for the government to contract out the services either. A lot of highway maintenance and construction is done by contracting.
[How come a public sector operation is automatically safer, by your thesis?]
They go by a different set of rules. Enough SUV's flip over a grassy median, up goes an ugly guardrail. Prisons are public aren't they?
I don't know, I think there needs to be some type of change to bring us up to better shape... It may make things easier to get commuter rail up and running instead of CSX negiotiations.
I don't quite understand this. Why would a public agency go by different set of rules? The public agency only goes by a different set of rules because there is political pressure to do something. A public agency can do things that run totally against the public interest, if there is no political pressure. For example, a certain transit agency has refused to clean up toxic spills for more than ten years, and has only recently moved to even figure out where the spill is, due to complaints by the locals. So if there is no political pressure, public agencies can be every bit as irresponsible (or even more so) than private companies. Public agencies are always looking to save budget and do things on the cheap, too. What can really make things work is a well-funded public agency or a private company with a good contract or a good business plan that produces enough cash flow.
But when he tried to get a building permit, Seminole County officials derailed his plans. McCarty didn't have a signed agreement with CSX Transportation for permission to cross the railroad tracks leading to his property on North Carolina Run. To cross the tracks into the subdivision -- the only way in -- CSX wants property owners to pay an annual maintenance fee of up to $2,000 and take out $3 million each in liability insurance...
CSX is acting correctly. For that property to remain unoccupied, the rail line will see much lower risk than if that land becomes occupied. The owner, when he bought the property, understood that there is no existing right-of-way across the railroad track there, and understood that he would have to construct a crossing to access his property. Of course, he is at liberty to construct an overbridge (subject to CSX agreement), and I think they will be a lot more willing to accomodate an overbridge than a grade crossing. I don't see what the big deal is. It would NOT be in the public interest for that property to become occupied. Frankly, America's commerce and the safety of freight in transit is far more important than some punk's beach house.
AEM7
Yes, I know. CN/IC, and before that it was Illinois Central, and before that it was part of the Illinois Central Gulf system. And before that it was nearly "FarmRail". If you called what NYCTA went through "deferred maintenance", you've yet to see how it was when it was the ICG. This was a railroad where the creditors were constantly beating at the door. Fortunately, things got a lot better after 1980.
AEM7
They, at least, know what to do with free trade!
Elias
#3 West End Jeff
You begin to wonder if the railroad pays much attetion to safety when a number of trains have derailed on a short strectch of track. <<<
Bingo... that's what I was about to say. The old freight rails are often barely adequate for freight and yet Amtrak has to risk lives riding these same rails. They won't fix the entire line since it's in the middle of a swamp. Insanity.
Do you want to "risk your life" riding the same rails, or do you prefer no Amtrak service?
Rail maintenance is serious business, and freight railroads may or may not have been doing it well, but the problem, if exists, affect freight trains as much as passenger trains. I'd rather be exposed to these reasonable risks and be able to travel by train, than not be exposed to them and not be able to travel by train.
You make a point. Still. With all the accidents that happened on those tracks, you would figure the problem would have been fixed.
"the" problem. "the" problem. What problem? If you've ever had the pleasure of inspecting track out in the boonies, you'd know that a train could derail if any one of these many many feet of track (count it: how many steps to walk from New Orleans, LA to Jackson, MS?) is not in a servicable state. Broken rail, inappropriate train handling, heat kink, unsuitably tamped rail, bad foundation, rotted tie, who knows what? IC hasn't won any awards for track maintenance, but they don't exactly just throw the trains on it and never look at the track, either.
AEM7
#3 West End Jeff
Another good reason to change the system to a public/private partnership. Let's see, no other industry in the last 200 years can keep it's own infrastructure in top condition and regulate themselves. I guess you folks with the NYC subways an attest to that since it's not public and not a private company anymore. But I guess rail is different.
National Corridors has two good stories this weak about infrasturcture. To me seeing tracks running down the street, with signs that say no tresspassing, it just seems silly or wrong. And you know CSX requires a yearly maintance fee and insurance for every crossing you have too? Just backwards.
If your mail is late today...
I *doubt* you'll be "be safe out there" for a few days - most IMPORTANT part of being a postal employee (I tasted it for a few days) is "learning the plan" ... WELCOME to "carrier sorting, no flashes, THANK YOU" ... you'll see. It's ALL about "the plan" ... carrier route sort, have a nice day. You'll have a NEWFOUND appreciation for "pigeon-holes" ... GUESS who INVENTED it? :)
Then there's the "indoctrination" ... hahahahaha. Oh, it's as bad as SCHOOLCAR, but you don't get to release ... unless the safety's off of course. Heh. Welcome to ANOTHER round of ... "da eagle qwappeth" ...
Try telling that to John Qtraindash7. If John's mail is late, he will blame it on ganstas attacking letter carriers.
Thanks,
jon
>>nycsubway.org: Fare Control
>>nycsubway.org: Token History
>>mta.info: MTA History (fares included)
>>mta.info: MTA Current Fare Info
>>mta.info: Metrocard
Hope these links help.
-Chris
-Chris
Robert
To save time and NJT fare, I drove from Queens (departing at 6:15 AM) to Metuchen without paying any tolls and in about an hour. Metuchen seemed look a good choice, being readily accessible to the Parkway going and the Outerbridge coming home, and having many residential streets in close proximity to the NJT station. What I didn't know was that seemingly EVERY street in Metuchen- not just those near the station and downtown- had signs proclaiming two-hour parking limits for non-residents. The only other places I've seen such a restriction was in Boston's Beacon Hill and Back Bay, and Vancouver. I finally took a spot at the end of a dead-end street off Main Street, a hopefully safe distance from any signs. It was almost down to I-287, a good half-mile hike to the station. All day long, I kept my fingers crossed. It's said that local Jersey police LOVE to ticket cars with New York plates.
I got the 8:05 to Trenton, which seemed full of reverse commuters. Most of them got off at Princeton Junction. There had apparently been an extensive renovation at the Trenton complex since the last time I was there in February '01: the bathroom was open, there were ample directional signs to surface transportation, and the bus schedule rack was full instead of empty.
Crossing the street to the light rail terminal, I was struck by how big the cars were compared to those on the HBLR. They were 'wrapped' with ads for Rutgers, the Aquarium and other destinations along the line. There was an interesting long passageway between cars in which I almost expected to find a water cooler and restrooms. Excellent detailed street maps of the route were on the platform and in the cars. The seats were somewhat uncomfortable but offered good views, especially in the front. Seems like seeing those loud purple seats every day could be headache-inducing.
After following Route 29 through an industrial area with fully-gated crossings, the transition from urban to rural setting after Cass Street was very abrupt. Riding an LRV at high speeds through swampland along a river was very strange. This was territory more associated with heavy rail. The downhill curve over the long bridge into Bordentown was great. The ROW seemed to run through the middle of nowhere for a good long while.
After Burlington, we seemed to run in the median of Broad Street for many miles. I'd read in some article or website that many South Jersey river towns had railroads running right down the middle of their main streets. Many Railroad Avenues seen along the ROW would support that theory. Between Burlington Centre and South, there appeared to be what used to be a station building.
This was completely alien territory to me; any time I'd gone to Philly by train or car, I'd always enter Pennsylvania from the Trenton area. I'd never even HEARD of most of the localities we went through except Bordentown (where you exit the NJT for the Penn Turnpike), Burlington (for the county) and Palmyra (the other end of the bridge from Tacony). Most places seemed pretty downtrodden, except perhaps Historic Riverton. Some nicely renovated Victorians and Colonials lined both sides of Broad Street through Burlington. Overheard in conversations several times was "there are a lot of thugs in THIS town" and "I would never leave my car HERE."
The Park & Ride lots were pretty empty, perhaps owing to the half-holiday. I wonder how many people would daily pay a toll to drive over the Delaware from Pennsylvania and use the SJLR to commute to Trenton or Camden. Not many, I'm sure. Most of the people on the 9:00 seemed to be railfans and/or the curious. Speed was very good all the way past 36th Street where we had to stop and let one pass the other way.
The initial view of Camden bolsters its reputation as a horrible slum. After crossing gates all along the ride, it was strange to see the very busy crossing of Broadway by MLK guarded only by a traffic light. Getting off at Rand, the urban decay was very apparent- lots of homeless, street vendors and abandoned storefronts. The PATCO change booth was unoccupied, so I went across to Dunkin' Donuts (with a very aggressive beggar manning the door) to grab a bite and break a $10 so I'd have singles for the ticket machine. I did NOT want to get stuck with a bunch of Susan B's!
I got the $1.15 ticket for Central City, but rode out to Lindenwold first. As always, the speed was wonderful and the railfan seat was occupied both ways. It seems strange that Echelon Mall is right smack between Ashland and Lindenwold and too far to walk from either. The one track on the northside of the ROW seems much too narrow to carry the NJT Atlantic City diesels. The PATCO equipment seems rather old, around seventies' vintage. Whatever their age, they don't show it. The ride over the Franklin Bridge puts the Manny and Willy B to shame.
After almost being fooled by the abandoned, but quite visible Franklin Square station, I got off at 8th, hoping to ride to Broad/Ridge Spur and BSL express to Fern Rock and back, all I'd have time for. (On Monday I plotted out my itinerary precisely from the NJT, SJLR, PATCO and SEPTA websites so I'd be 'home from work' close to my usual time. If my wife knew I was taking off, it would've been a 'Honeydew' holiday.) It was then that I realized you have to buy at least two subway tokens.
So I shelved that idea, figuring I'd come down another time and use the Daypass to ride the subway and suburban trolleys. Instead, I walked through the Galleria (getting all the Regional Rail and trolley schedules) and many blocks through some attractively tiled but rather desolate passageways. At one point I was right above the 11th Street station as an MFL train departed. In January 2000, their accelerating whine was downright deafening. After living with the R142As for the past three years, the Adtranz equipment sounds utterly refined in comparison.
I came out just west of City Hall and walked down 15th to the PATCO terminal at Locust. There was an out of service train on the outbound track with all service being on the inbound. The PATCO stations in Philly seemed rather dark and foreboding compared to those on the MFL.
After exiting at Broadway, I got the SJLR the rest of the way to the Entertainment Center. The neighborhood along the ROW seemed to be under extensive renovation, with some attractive rowhouses along Cooper Street (a very intriguing brick building at Cooper & 3rd) and a luxury high-rise being converted from a warehouse. Unusually, the tracks ran along the curblines along Cooper and Delaware Avenue, leaving two lanes in between for vehicular traffic. The platforms were virtually on the sidewalks. The waterfront south of the bridge seems to have some promise, with Campbell Field, the Aquarium and the Tweeter Center in close proximity and some very large parking structures. Don't know that I'd want to be around there late at night with nothing going on.
At Entertainment Center, they kicked us off for a twenty-minute layover. On the return, we found the tracks blocked on Cooper by a parked truck. After a couple minutes and many blasts of the horn, an irate driver came out to move it. I was quite relieved, having been stuck like this for twenty minutes on Essex Street of the HBLR in its first month of operations. The operator explained that whenever this kind of thing happens, he has to report it in so as to justify any lateness. If the vehicle is not moved, they have the liberty to have the police tow it away. No telling HOW long of a wait that would be!
At Rand, a uniformed NJT police officer boarded. He didn't check tickets (which were NOT checked on the trip down) until Edgewater Park. A couple of elderly women had no idea they were supposed to buy tickets, or validate them, or be off the system in two hours no matter HOW many times the officer explained it. Of course, he let them slide "this time". Anyway, after very slow street running and having to stop at every light in Camden, it was a pleasure to hit full speed again. Going north, we would switch over to bypass tracks with quite a jolt.
We got back to Trenton in ample time to get the NJT back to Metuchen. For the first time, I noticed what looked like a stairway leading from a road overpass down to what must've been a platform shortly after the North Brunswick water tower. Even though I've ridden the NEC many times, it never fails to amaze me how narrow the New Brunswick platforms are- especially considering Amtrak calls there as well. On the way down that morning, the inbound platform was packed with waiting passengers. That must be quite pleasant in cold weather high up on an elevated embankment.
I was very happy to find my car had NOT been ticketed. It was an easy drive back into Staten Island and home. My wife never knew.
There was an interesting long passageway between cars in which I almost expected to find a water cooler and restrooms.
That's the power car; the motor is on one side of the aisle and the electrical cabinet on the other.
...the transition from urban to rural setting after Cass Street was very abrupt...The ROW seemed to run through the middle of nowhere for a good long while.
From Trenton to Bordentown is nearly 5 miles of wilderness, part of which is Duck Island State Park. It's another 3+ miles of wilderness from Bordentown to Roebling.
After Burlington, we seemed to run in the median of Broad Street for many miles.
It's actually less than a mile, and it's in Burlington.
Between Burlington Centre and South, there appeared to be what used to be a station building.
That was the PRR Burlington station, now used by NJT police.
Most places seemed pretty downtrodden, except perhaps Historic Riverton.
That's Riverside. Riverton is a couple miles south.
...a luxury high-rise being converted from a warehouse.
That was the Victor Talking Machine company factory, later RCA. Many RCA Victor records were pressed there.
While Burlington's Broad Street in the middle of which the ROW ran disappeared after awhile, I noticed other Broad Streets bordering the ROW in other communities as far south as Palmyra or Pennsauken. Kind of like how Park Avenue sticks with the MN ROW in Manhattan and the Bronx, though interrupted by the Harlem River.
You're right, I got my River towns mixed up. RiverTON was the one with signs of gentrification and invariably prefaced with the world 'Historic'.
I saw the Victor designation on the converted loft, but didn't make the connection to RCA or the mutt. When did the factory close? It must've been a major employer in Camden, and its demise probably contibuted to the city's downfall.
It was interesting to note that all the 3-D braille maps in the PATCO system described the SJLR as opening in 2002! What caused the delay? NIMBYs? Budget? Politics? All of the above?
All of the above, as well as technical problems. There were major problems with crossing gates that finally got fixed the day before service started, after months of remedial work.
Now I get what you meant by the railroad running down the middle of Broad Street for several miles. It actually runs in the middle of Broad Street only in Burlington City, but it runs between E. Broad Street and W. Broad Street in Riverton and Palmyra, and between parallel streets in much of Riverside and Cinnaminson.
In most of the towns in Camden County, the street running next to the railroad is Pennsylvania Ave, Reading Ave, or Atlantic Ave (the Atlantic City Railroad became the Reading, and the Camden & Atlantic and West Jersey & Atlantic both became the PRR).
RCA and Campbell's Soup were the biggest employers in Camden. RCA has been gone for a number of years. Campbell's General Office is still there, but its soup factories closed years ago.
Earlier, Esterbrook Pen was a major employer. I bet most subtalkers don't know what a fountain pen was.
Off-topic aside: A retired former co-worker of mine had worked at RCA in the late 1950's, commuting from Moorestown (where RCA subsequently moved). His commuter train (PRR) consisted of a K4 Pacific and 1 or 2 coaches. One day he went to work on such a train, but rode home on a Doodlebug (self propelled passenger car, predating Budd RDC's). It turned out that the train that he rode to work was the last scheduled PRR passenger train pulled by a steam locomotive.
This is my concern when I rode the system not long ago. The park and rides were empty and the only people using the system were train fans.
They better start getting developers at the acquarium (sp) Unfortunately, most of the space is dedicated for PARKING! Where are you going to put a mall down there???
>>>>The initial view of Camden bolsters its reputation as a horrible slum. Getting off at Rand, the urban decay was very apparent- lots of homeless, street vendors and abandoned storefronts. <<<<<
I've riden my bicycle all over New York city. I rode in the South Bronx, Flushing Queens, Staten Island and Brooklyn (East New York). I have to say, that Camden is in better condition than some areas in New York City. In fact, the next time I go down there I'll bring my bicycle and tour the city.
The small section that I did see reminded me of Newark/Jersey City. Just because there is a slum, does not mean this rail line has been given the kiss of death. The HBLR rides past some of the poorest neighborhoods in Jersey City but it has been a smashing success. I have a lot of hope for this new Lightrail providing they build a mall at the end of the line.
Here is my roster of what I know so far to the best of the my knowledge. Your additions and revisions are welcome.
9564/5
9582-9
9594/5
9616-9
9734/5 or 9742/3 (?) (I know that these were the last 97xx pairs on the last few sets in service)
9400/1
(If anyone knows of any other 93xx or 94xx WH R36 pairs besides 9400/1, please reply.)
X = can't remember.
GOT YOU THIS TIME! Saw a photo taken in 2004 that shows a R36 (with large picture windows) that is ***7 (number ends in 7). It is definitely not 9587 since it has no Green 7 US Open markings. Got to be 9616-7. The photo showed it with a with another R36 pair (9594/5 9618/9 or 97xx)?
This time you've got fooled!
If you look to the left of the ML Redbirds tagged, there are at least 4 R36's (with large picture windows and Corona yard stickers). Look closer and you'll see the one just to the left of the tagged ML (9033) has a number ending in a 7. The only R36 to have a number left ending with 7 is 9587 but it does have a "Green 7" tennis logo and besides it was a Unionport this week with several others. That leaves it to be 9616/7 to be the likely suspects in that photo.
The other R36's in the photo can not be postively indentified, but I'm assuming its a 95xx/97xx pair.
9616-9 LIVE!
Redbirds Spotted
I know the cars on the 10/14 & 10/20 consists and some cars the others, but curious about what cars were on the other two. (I knew about the 9/29 incident with 9749, after which it was sent on one consist).
And I rode on the lone set still running that following week every day except one. 9612 was the last Redbird I would ever ride on in revenue service.
Did you see that set? You may have also seen several R33WF singles as well. How meny trainsets were there?
On 10/20, the train consisted of 9617-9616-9316-9582-9583-9586-9587-9584-9585-9613-9612. I must have waited a good 45 minutes at Times Square that morning, but when it finally arrived, I was elated.
On 10/21 and for the rest of the week, 9564-9565 were substituted for 9617-9616.
A few others were in the yard or storage:
9588/9, 9734/5, 9742/3 (These I can remember, IIRC, some of these cars may still be around somewhere)
Did you remember seeing these cars I mentioned?
I do remember seeing three, maybe four trainsets on Oct. 19.
How many of these cars are there? Where can they be found?
#3 West End Jeff
9620/1
9634/5
9696/7
9710/1
9716/7
9738/9
I knew that these were on the some of the 4 scrap sets back last fall (late September-October) but I am just trying to find out. What scrap consist numbers of these sets if anyone knows.
Again, I know the #'s of two of the scrap consists in late September-October. The other two consists I (believe) I know the numbers but want to confirm:
9618/9
9620/1
9634/5
9696/7
9706/7
9710/1
9712/3
9716/7
9738/9
9748/9
Please stop asking this question over and over again.
-Stef
Were you there too?
9618/9
9620/1
9634/5
9696/7
9706/7
9710/1
9712/3
9716/7
9738/9
9748/9
I knew 9748/9 was the north motor on one of these scrap sets. 9712/3 (2000 Subway Series cars) were also on those two consists, which were in the last week September/early October. Exact numbers? Thanks.
Suggestion: You might want to email Dave Pirmann and ask him to post the trip on the Upcoming Events calendar.
Oh, you mean the train will run Riverside-Lechmere-Heath-Lechmere-Cleveland Circle-Lechmere-Boston College-Lechmere-Riverside?
hehe
-Chris
Cool photo. I'll be going to Disney this summer, so I'll have some nice pics too.
-Chris
Where'd you stay, Disney or I-drive? Or 192(the poor mans disney)?
If you made it downtown and got some pictures of the lynx central terminal, i'll let you post those. :p
And O.B.T. is a good course in sociology right there!
When I was there in January, I stayed on Irlo Bronson 192, "poor man's disney". I have also stayed on I-Drive a few times. I loke 192 better because it's so much closer....especially if you go to Pleasure Island at night. (and that's another story, it's so strange seeing DIsney employees pouring out the alcohol with their little mickey name tags on).
*(and that's another story, it's so strange seeing Disney employees pouring out the alcohol with their little mickey name tags on).*
I was at one of those private night functions at the magic kingdom one night, and walking down the sidewalk i got CARDED!!! Jeeze. That's a new one.
Citywalk's pretty high energy too.
Hahahahaha. Yeah, that's just so not the "image" of the Magic Kingdom people think of.
I was at Disneyland in Anaheim some years ago, where the park stays open much later during non-peak months than Florida, I think it was open till midnight. Well, at about 6:00, my friend and I decided to go to ESPN Zone in Downtown Disney for dinner. The restaurant was an hour wait, so we decided to eat at the bar. Well, they have these mega-like 32 ounce draft beers there (so does the one in NYC), and we each wound up with 3 of them (don't ask, it's a long story). Well anyway, let's just say that Disney aftarwards till midnight on 90+ ounces of beer is a totally different experience. I didn't dare do Space Mountain after that, but the Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Splash Mountain, Thunder Railroad, Indiana Jones, etc, etc were all like the first time I ever road them! What's great though about Anaheim is that you can leave the park and walk back to the hotel right across the street (certainly needed after ESPN Zone "Disney").
Citywalk's pretty high energy too.
Yeah, I went to CityWalk too a few times, although like Pleasure Island. Actually CItyWalk is great if you are on International drive.
Among other things, you'll get to know the locations of all the restrooms :)
Enjoy the rest of your vacation and don't forget to say hello to Mickey and Minnie for all of us here. :-)
How unfortunate.
Although in all seriousness, I wouldn't really want to be there this week or next. It's one of the busiest times of year there. I heard they even closed the Magic Kingdom (and one of the other parks the other day) because they were "at capacity".
My goodness, those buses look bland with the bare white front!
I'm still planning on riding those LFS's one day, even has a roofmounted AC i see.
If Disney can run run one as an amusement, they cannot be all that expensive to build, and the Interstate ROW already exists, has appropriate contours for high speed travel, contacts meaninful cities, and fairly well acessible by automobile.
Elias
They really need something instead of the status quo bs. It looks like they're getting rail shoved down their throats by the state and the feds at some point in the future at least.
And Orlando, with it's front page news stories about there being "no sense of place", and as many people leave as comes in, you'd think they'd want to add rail for cohesiveness.
But during the night Orlando's jumpin, but it's pretty much all locals(and 3/4ths UCF). I read some bulletin board of a tourist saying it was all locals and he didn't feel comfortable there or something.
Anyway, having all them bars and frieght trains rolling by can't be that bad.
Too bad the morons at city hall opened the street to two way traffic(what a nightmare it is to cross now) and I think they have it open to traffic at night. I don't remember an overflow of drunks and cars mixing that well.
I always noticed Citywalk has a werid mix, there's locals, lots of thugs, and tourists. But that place seemed pretty dead a few weekdays over there.
And get the hurricane at O'Brians while you're there. 2-3 should do it.
That's really good to hear. Like I said, Downtown Orlando did look healthy, but was sure that the Theme park resort's night stuff did cut into the nightlife a little bit.
But that place [CityWalk] seemed pretty dead a few weekdays over there.
Yeah, I was there on a Tuesday once and it was pretty dead. The weekends are busier, I guess more locals mixed in too.
And get the hurricane at O'Brians while you're there. 2-3 should do it.
Well I didn't have one at CityWalk, but had two at the real Pat O'Briens in New Orleans, so know what they can do!!
Anyway, having all them bars and frieght trains rolling by can't be that bad.
Absolutely. I think I have some photos of Amtrak and freight going through Church Street. I'll have to look for them
Anyway, having all them bars and frieght trains rolling by can't be that bad.
Oh Jeff, and speaking of Tampa, take a look at this:
That was taken about 1994. I know the Tampa Amtrak station has been fixed up, and although I have been back to Tampa in 2002, I had not been to the Amtrak station to check out the renovation. Do you have any current photos of the renovation?
It looks a lot better now. It's beautiful. Even though they didn't get rid of that slum next to it yet.
I've been meaning to get some pics of it, but with my limited memory card still, I keep running out after I take TECO line development pictures. Maybe I'll get some this week or ,at least one from that spot.
The closest picture I have right now is from the cockpit of the Jet-train(that was fun)
Also, I like the downtown Orlando picture. That must've been a while ago too, Somethings different in that picture. I think one of the tracks leading to that SAL local isn't there anymore, or maybe the switch. And wow you lucked out, I only seen the tail end of an amtrak once.
There's a museum car over there, and I'm slacking, so gimme a few days. :)
Not to mention it's an F40PH... Yeah, I think I had taken that photo in 1996, the same with the CSX train at the Amtrak station.
And wow you lucked out, I only seen the tail end of an amtrak once.
Yeah, it was pretty lucky that day. Most of the time when I get to the Amtrak station to see what time a train is coming, Amtrak always seems to be like 6 hours late or something, so I give up.
I think I was standing in the same exact spot as you, give or take one step. :) If i can luck out with some sun, it would be a perfect before and after shot. Overcast photos never look good to me.
Not exactly.
A state constitutional amendment was approved by the voters mandating a high speed intrastate rail line be built. The governor refuses to comply and is trying to get the amendment rescinded because of the cost.
Chuck Greene
When I was talking about rail getting shoved down the peoples throats over there, i meant Mica, congress, and FDOT, who still have big commuter, lrt, and toll lanes planned for Orlando and I-4, no matter how much Guetlzoe(ax the tax) cries and whimpers against quality of life improvements.
And it still doesn't matter if they even think they're going to pass a HSR repeal, there's still a law on the books from 1992 mandating HSR, and that was supposed to be built in 99. Tom gallagher ain't going to be elected governor by making his campaign undoing the will of the people and calling them buffoons.
You got 417 to the east that's a completed beltway.
You got the 429 to the west that's supposed to only carry 2% of the traffic off of I-4, and nothing around it. Everytime one of those roads open, or even that 110million dollar bridge north of Orlando on I-4, home building premits spike to ungodly numbers. They don't even have enough workers to build the houses in some counties there's so much demand(not to mention 80% of those houses have code violations).
Plus no one lives on that 429, but they will when that one opens too. The suncoast parkway, ditto. That's why people are up in arms in Citrus county.
Only difference is, there's a law saying the toll roads have to pay for themselves during the feasibility studies, and it's a "for profit" entity.
Let me stop there and just say, unlike high speed rail, the building of those roads were in violation of state law, because they don't break even, until a few years when the area becomes sprawled out and oversaturated.
And yep, all we got is tolls. You didn't see the regular roads with the toll plaza's did you? that's a hoot. I do like the high speed tolls, with my amtech(not the sucky mark tags) box, I think we're way ahead of the rest of the county.
I've seen the 2025 plans from the expressway authority, i like theirs. It's ashame they took the plan to double-deck SR436 from the airport up past the 408, I liked that idea(436 is another nightmare, if they took down the speed limit 50 signs and put up 20, no one would notice).
I've never had anyone answer this question though. If in Orange county 50% of the tax revenues come from tourism and tourist, why aren't the roads in better shape, or paved with gold bricks? The toll roads are the only thing that keeps the area moving, and if the area really is like Phoenix, which they compare it to, i'm not going there. But to me it sounds like, you take any county, have a normal amount of sales tax and other things being collected, but you shove 50% extra on there, more money! I guess it's corruption.
But in Orlando proper, the mayors get elected from their anti-gridlock ideas, and SR429 wouldn't actually serve any currently living people, it goes through a swamp.
By the way, have you seen any smoke from the wildfires during your stay up there? I know the green swamp to the west has been burning, and this time of year, i always see something in a distance(once in a while it creeps into disney).
It just begs the question, are we ever going to see these in places other than theme parks?
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
Also Las Vegas is due to open a near transit monorail system soon. I say 'near-transit' because the bastard were stupid enough to use Bombardier's licensed Disney monorail called the M-VI, which is a complete POS. It lacks a walk-through design and goes with a compartmentalized system (just imagine how much fun the NYC subway would be if every car were divided in half and you couldn't go between cars).
Japan is arguably the king of Transit Monorails. They have only a few systems that deviate from the original Alweg design, and their laws for building monorail systems require a walk-through design with a level floor, so that POS disney stuff can't be built over there. I think they have like 5 or 6 transit monorails over 10 miles long.
Finally right in your back yard you have a shitty 'non-amusement-park' monorail. The EWR Airtrain. Sure it sucks and is perhaps the antithesis of what a monorail should be, but it's atill got one beam on which it rests, and isn't a terrible ride. If you do ride it, please don't assume that ALL monorails are like that. Only monorails built by 3 different companies, of which two are know for F-ing up transit projects, suck quite as badly as that one.
The only things good that are compartmentalized is the jacksonville system since the cars are so tiny. I'd rather be in a little compartment than a 10 foot car with some freaky stranger(that system has no operator remember).
My only monorail experiences have been the one that was built for the NY World's Fair in 64-65 and one at Busch Gardens in Tampa. I'd love to ride one in commuter revenue service.
Your pal,
Fred
And they have the really awesome narrow gauge railroad(actually my favorite ride!).
If you like narrow gauges, try the Durango-Silverton in CO.
Your pal,
Fred
Of course that's number 2 or 3 on the list of shittiest monorails ever built. Only EWR's idiotic horse designed by a committee (or 3 separate companies), and the Disneyland monorail, which ripped the Alweg company off BIG TIME, manage to make me hate them more than the disneyworld monorail.
It'd be cool if for the next set of rolling stock for the Disney system they went with something like the Hitachi trains in Japan or the Seattle Alweg cars. The compartmentalization of those cars easily illustrates their inferior traction and suspension system's shortcomings. Walk-through articulated trainsets are safer, can hold more people in the same length of track, and are just damn cool to stand inside and go "damn, this train is 200 feet long and I'm looking down the whole thing".
Just IMHO, and again, nice shot.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Compared to the many wishy washy photos posted here, this photo was the best I seen in a long time. Exposed nicely and most important, properly composed. Great job !
Bill "Newkirk"
And yes, it is sedgwick, not sedgewick... Thank Mr. Anonymous.
Map-Deprived in Manhattan
And yes, he does not have the innards of all of them scanned.
Elias
Question #2
Also at West 4th, there are '4' signs on the columns in between the tracks. What are these for? I KNOW that its West 4th (SO its basically 4th St but you could hardly see them in the train and they really don't seem to have any useful purpose, other than telling people on the platform, or the T/O, who probably knows where he/she is. What do you think?
-Chris
If it makes all stops, then it's a local, regardless of whether or not it has an express. Look at the R143's on the L. They show, "14 ST LOCAL" and "CANARSIE LOCAL." The line doesn't even have the potential to become express, and the trains refer to themselves as local.
Question #2
Also at West 4th, there are '4' signs on the columns in between the tracks. What are these for?
They are to identify the station to passengers on the train, who are located near the window on that particular side of the train. If the car a person is in is so packed, that he/she can't see through the windows on the platform side, and there's a train of equal occupancy on the other track, the signs provide some form of station ID, like the caption tiles on the walls. They are at many stations, but they aren't cleaned up as well.
These signs are always facing the platform. The only exception to this is at the 63rd Drive IND station, where the columns between the local and express tracks are 15 feet apart.
Below is a depiction of this variation, as seen on my E Line for the BVE train simulator.
-Chris
Seen on msn.com just now.
Arti
The one thing I wonder is if CBTC will allow NYCTA to finally eliminate some of the timers and wheel detectors that have sprung up on the system.
Since now managment will know exactly where the train is, how fast it's going, and which line it's supposed to take, there's no more guesswork. Admittedly this decreases the T/Os responsibility from, say, Selkirk's era, taking it from a near-profession to something around menial data entry or something. However, given the legal atmosphere in this country, MTA cannot afford to run the system in it's 1970s condition, they cannot afford to trust the T/O as much as they did back then. Thus the wheel detector, the timer, and all the other little toys the MTA has installed to drive us railfans nuts, but which covers their collective suit covered anuses in the event of a crash. Hopefully when CBTC finally comes into service there will be a decrease in running times since now Management knows exactly how fast you're going and where you're going that fast, thus some of the more high speed sections of the system can return to at least a shadow of their former glory.
Finally, anyone think SAS will have CBTC installed? I think the MTA would be utterly moronic not to install the system right off the bat. Or at least install the pieces to make it work, but install a signal system right over it so that unmodified trains can run on it.
And don't forget, somebody has to move trains when the CBTC hiccups and the homeballs all go red!
http://www.tsd.org/cbtc/projects/index.htm#NYCT
Ah... er... What motorman might that be, now?
BNSF is experimenting with automated trains on their main lions. No Conductor, No Engineer. Replaced with a "Train Attendant". Someone who will reset circuit breakers, and keep the motors running. (A Fireman???).
No responsibility for running the train. He might even be in the back ditzing with the oil filter somewhere on the third unit, while the train keeps rolling on.
Elias
Contact the MTA and tell them. What purpose does moaning about it here serve? None, that's what. When would you like the essential work to be carried out, late at night or in the middle of the rush hour? I know what the vast majority would choose.
And I find it hard to believe that the T/O was purposefully slowing down, considering that takes away from his break as well as getting you there late. Especially what you say about 67th Ave it sounds as if there were workers on the tracks.
And to think, you missed your bus on an express...
Me and my cousins took the X1 to Cortlandt St and got fun passes. We took the (A) to 34th and went to see the Circus @ MSG (the only reason I went was to go to ESPN Zone and to Railfan afterwords, plus I'm getting older, and Ive never been to the circus) ON THE NEWS, you may have seen about that guy who fell off the Tight rope? I saw the whole thing. Everyone was just quiet for a few minutes and the music stopped. It was pretty weird. Anyway, after ESPN zone, I left for the subway. It wasn't that much of a trip, but it was fun. I really love that FunPass, cause you can enter and leave the system freely w/o worrying about the fare (like the SIR).
I took the (7) from TSQ to QBP and got out to take some pics. Then, I took the (7) to Court House Sq and transferred to the (E). Got an R32 w/ RF window. Nice trip to Roosevelt Av/Jackson Hts. Saw an (F) (Manhattan bound) on the other side and tried to make it. Didn't, but after 2 Manhattan bound Es pass, I was lucky and I got an R32 (F). Finally got to see 'relatively new' RD connector trackwork. Took that & got off at Roosevelt Island. Got out and walked around, VERY nice island, but I didn't get to take the tram. By now, it was getting late, and I wanted to get back to SI, so I took the (F) to W4th and got on a (D). TOO CROWDED, so I got the next (D) at Grand St. Transferred to (R) at 36th and took the S79 to SIR to my house. ALL in all, it was a short, but fun trip. Hope you enjoy the photos.
Click here for my website
Click here for my website
-Chris
Where's the location of the 8th picture from the bottom(peoplemover).
and the one under that might give someone a nosebleed.
-Chris
-Chris
-Chris
Question: How do other counties enforce DUI's, report DUI's, and what's their limits?
Underreporting is even a problem in this county for certain crimes in certain places.
More than 42,000 Americans are killed and 3.3 million are seriously injured each year on the Nation's highways.
Don't become another senseless driver, take a bus or a train.
-talk amongst yourselves...
Or you could just suspend the V and run the F via the E, and send all R trains in both directions through 63rd.
The V, as suggested, could run on the 8th Ave. line to W 4th St., or have service suspended.
Flexibility was lost when the connection was severed.
Do you have a '70s-era vintage service plan while the rail is being repaired? Would they just have said, "screw you, there ain't no train"?
But the "plan" back then would have been to just throw any S/B F's over to the express track and let DeKalb figure out what to do with them. "Off MY railroad" was the golden rule at towers back then. "Send 'em to Queens, Send 'em to Keokuk, just get them OUTTA here. Send 'em to Grand Street, send 'em out the KK, just get rid of them. SOMEWHERE." (grin)
As for the "fire in the hole" compound, MAGICAL stuff. Makes trains run. And Dave ... just because you guys do the low bid stuff don't mean there ain't high iron out there. Heh.
Thought of the day ... "Car Inspectors make trains GO ... RTO people can make them STOP." Moo.
Even 115 pound is out of the question, and its like one inch taller than 100.
But out in the sticks, it's truly 'high iron." :)
only on the IRT. I'm glad to be away from there now.
I got the willies whenever I had to climb down and find a phonebox that actually had a PHONE in it. I at least had the safety of being protected by MY train and knowing that I'd set the brakes. I couldn't IMAGINE being on the ground subject to the old shout of "Railroad!" if I'm LUCKY.
I'm a throwback to the days of the lunchpail radios that slid into the basket on the wall below the cab window. You had a better chance of raising command on one of those empty phone boxes. Heh.
However, B's for example could run local, and F passengers could transfer to the F's from 53rd via 8th ave a B-Laff
-Chris
One caveat here: If the woman had observed someone else boarding with an animal on a given day, and the MTA did not enforce the rule, then she could complain that MTA was not being consistent in enforcement. If that had happened, that would be a legitimate gripe (but not a reason to allow her on board with the animal).
The only animals which should be brought on board without using a carrier or muzzle or other restraints should be seeing-eye, signal or service dogs (the latter include dogs which the disabled use to support their weight while they transfer in and out of seats. For example, someone using a walker boards a train, and then leans on the service dog, which is trained to stand still and support the person's weight. That person can then settle into the train seat.)
Are you still in Kansas City? Did you get to railfan St. Louis Metrolink and eat the great barbeque and steak restaurants in K.C.?
And yes, I've eaten KC steak and BBQ. If I'm not careful I'll be headed to my cardiologist soon. 40-ounce porterhouses, 16-oz strp steaks (well-marbled) and short ribs with a salt-sugar-allspice marinade (made that last one at home myself) have a way of clogging arteries...
I'll take my chances... when's dinner? :-)
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Well, if you're ever in town, I like to share.
BRING ON THE BEEF!
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
(tho 4 the record, I've seen geese CARRYING chihuahuas and terriers onto
subway trains in midtown and no one makes a peep nor a leak aboot it.)
Peace,
ANDEE
Are you kidding? She'll probably sue Metro North for "defamation of character" and win thousands of dollars!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Sorry, I'm a bit of a neat freak and the cars are naaaaasty. I have to resist the urge to bring some Windex with me on days I go railfanning.
I don't even know what a clean and spotless R-32 and R-46 look like...I'm just too used to seeing them in their present grimy condition.
Taken last summer:
Taken last month:
And for comparison, a clean Concourse 68:
When taking photos of CI R-68's my white balance is off, the cars look too brown because they aren't cleaned. When taking a photo of a Concourse 68, the colors are fine... the train is silver!
CIY: Brown
CCY: Silver
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The weekend of the bridge reopening, a number of R40 B consists were sent to Concourse for the Monday rush. They were all sent thru their carwash and the contrast between them and the rest of the R40's was dramatic.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
til next time
P.S.: To those who MAY live in Lower Manhattan, such as John Villanueva, Thirty-Third St., and Brian Weinberg, remember, I was not trying to tarnish the image of the neighborhood you may live in.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
None of those go near Lower Manhattan. Living near M23 I can assure you that there's no problem with the air quality.
Arti
What kinda proposal is this?!?!?!?!
Oh you're serious?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Did you get this idea from south park?
Might you either know, be, or are Rob Rhiner?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
If it helps, youre the most mature 11 year old I know.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Your pal,
Fred
On the other hand, you have equal opportunity to do so. Take advantage of it.
Thank you. I urge you to take advantage of your right to die.
There is one medical clinic in Bismarck that has two coat closets for employees, one marked for smokers, and the other one marked for non-smokers only.
There are only one or two smokers left in our monastery, the rest have quit or curtail their smoking to some private room or out doors. There are no more ash trays in any public area, which would have amused greatly the monks of long ago when a priest with a cigar was the norm.
Be that as it may, when a visitor who is a smoker sits next to you in the church, the stench is quite noticable. (Indeed, so is the foul stench of perfumes, colognes, or even some after-shaves.) But there is nothing that can be done about such things, so kevtching about them will not solve them.
When I was your age (an still wish I was!) I'd ride the old double deckers on the LIRR because I wanted to rail-fan that car, and did not care if it was a smoker. Mom could always tell: "You rode in a smoker!)
Elias
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
If you get headaches from smokers on the open street, I submit that you are probably going through an evolutionary hiccup.
Now I've heard everything!
Your pal,
Fred
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Your pal,
Fred
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
-Ben diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Having said that, any place in New York with narrow, crowded streets and lots of truck and bus traffic (lower Manhattan, Midtown, Flushing, parts of Brooklyn and the Bronx) may expose you to higher levels of diesel/particulate exhaust, which could theoretically give you a headache.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Don't mind Brian. He takes great pictures. Concentrate on looking at his pictures, and if he says something stupid every now and then just ignore it.
You're OK in my book, that's for sure.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Let Brian do what he wants. He needs to grow up, that's all.
Speak for yourself the next time you directly call someone an asshole. If you call that criticizing someone, then I do, to YOU.
Speak for yourself the next time you directly call someone an asshole. If you call that criticizing someone, then I do, to YOU.
(No offense to Irish people).
Even better would be to ignore RonIsBS and let him die.
I think MTA should offer Far Rockaway residents a break. Can you use your head maturely and suggest how they might do that?
I an mature enough to know that I do contribute a lot on this board and I offer good postings (I contributed more than the map error, see the thread). Sometimes I can be wrong, and I can be slightly be scarastic at times. But your theories are worthless because they won't work, that's why Far Rockaway A train and I gave the reasons why your theories won't work.
OK.
"The crux of the matter was you didn't have any basis of fact that was ever valid. "
False. MTA's reasoning was actually very clear (except to conspiracy theorists and other bullshit artists). That does not mean I agreed with it.
"When you brought the issue of NYC residency requirement you are being discriminatory."
OK, that's possible. So we need to examine alternatives and compare them to each other.
"When your case that you "understand" the MTA's decision that a longer ride should cost less than a shorter ride, you failed to note that there are other stations like Flushing and Jamaica in Queens; Marble Hill in the Bronx, that are next to subway stations."
False again. Not relevant to the discussion. And you got it backwards. MTA does not believe a longer ride should cost less. But I assume that's just a typo on your part.
Residents in Flushing can use MetroCard to ride the 7. So CityTicket on the LIRR is a nice perk, and also one that could (maybe??? speculation by me) divert abit of the crowds on the subway.
What impact would introducing CityTicket to Far Rockaway have on A train ridership? (I don't know the answer to that.)
"I an mature enough to know that I do contribute a lot on this board and I offer good postings "
I agree in general. And your pointing out my map error was helpful to me - it was trivial, however, to understanding MTA's pricing strategy. You made a mountain out of a mosquito bite, inventing motives which you have no support for.
You are entitled to hink that what I post is worthless, but since you offered little in return, it's hard to take you seriously on that point.
So, again, grow up a little now, show your maturity, and let's see a coherent pricing plan for the Rockaways from you.
Do you think the residents who use those stations will allow such a proposal to be implemented? I would be dead set againsty that, and none of their elected officials would stand for it.
However, you have a really good germ of an idea there! MTA can schedule express trains without shutting the stations down. Suppose MTA were to make CityTicket valid on those expresses, but not on local trains? Would that satisfy you?
If I recall corrctly, the line is four tracks up to a point, right?
You just created a very elegant and do-able solution.
Getting back to the FR issue, lets put your idea and mine into one. Weekend service alternates every hour between FR express and trains to/from Inwood as locals, each will be 2 hour headways and there is more than enough space on the M-7 trains to do this. So the FR trains will be the dedicated Cityticket trains, while the locals will be full off-peak fare. (I wonder how crush loaded will certain N31/32 buses be just before the FR express departures.)
Thanks for the info. I've used the train toValley Stream and I know the ROW is four tracks there. I've never ridden that line beyond it, though. I've been to the Rockaways, but only on the A train, not the LIRR.
"Getting back to the FR issue, lets put your idea and mine into one. Weekend service alternates every hour between FR express and trains to/from Inwood as locals, each will be 2 hour headways and there is more than enough space on the M-7 trains to do this. So the FR trains will be the dedicated Cityticket trains, while the locals will be full off-peak fare. (I wonder how crush loaded will certain N31/32 buses be just before the FR express departures.)"
Outstanding! Now write it up and send your letter to Katherine Lapp, MTA Executive director.
Send copies to the LIRR offices at Jamaica Station, MTA public affairs at 347 Madison Av, and the local City councilman and assemblyman for the area. And the Queens Borough Prez office in Kew Gardens. Their fax numbers and addresses are in the phone book and on the MTA website.
Nice going, dude.
Maybe though, you might take into consideration the extent of your personal comprehension of this infrastructure when you enter into "hardware" discussions. Subtalkers, we have our faults but collectively, we knows our trains. It DOES make a difference, here, if you don't know how many tracks a line has. Faulty information in that area will tend to dilute otherwise good logic. And that can overshadow the main points of a discussion, unfortunately. Don't get me wrong here; I don't have all the facts either. I see many discussions going on about subjects where I lack enough data to join in. I don't want to be seem talking out of my hat, and get shown up for it. In those situations the best I can do is to listen, and maybe come up with pertinent questions.
A solution? Bone up on the cinders! Hell, subway.org alone probably has all the facts on all the tracks in the metropolitan area, for starters. But you knew that already...
I'm familiar with the subway infrastructure (not every switch and signal, though). However, my knowledge of LIRR and Metro-North infrastructure is limited in part because I have not ridden the whole system. I have not ridden to Ronkonkoma, for example. I have read on this site that that line is single-tracked (but I don't know where the LIRR goes from two or more tracks to single-track over there). I have not ridden the full length of the Harlem Line (the furthest I've ridden is to Hawthorne). So I am aware (???) that electrification goes only so far as Brewster North, if my recollection is correct.
I've never ridden the Hudson Line. I've watched the diesel trains chug along the shore but have never used Metro-North stations in the Bronx on that line.
Specifically regarding the Far Rockaway Line: I think the idea presented by that subtalker is very, very good regardless of whether we're talking 4 or 2 tracks, and can be implemented. I encourage him to write into MTA amd his elected officials, because it is true that Far Rockaway residents, which include a lot of lower-income folks, need a break. I see no evidence that MTA discriminated against them because of race, but that does not mean the agency should not offer them something.
So the question is how. I brought up a residency requirement, which got a negaive response on the board - but it was bested by a really cool idea.
Maybe it's time I invested in Mr. Dougherty's book...
That's a shame. RonIsBS has done nothing to earn anyone's respect, only contempt.
There is no reason for those crude comments, and some guys here should be ashamed of themselves.
If you had actually read Ron's responses to posts, you would see why those responses were warranted. If anything, you should be ashamed of yourself for defending Ron.
IMO, your take on civic action alone justifies your presence here.
Nothing justifies his presence here. His civic action does not make up for his arrogance and his bigotry.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I have several people on killfile myself. I don't bother with letting anyone know about it. I just ignore them and find myself feeling better when I don't have to read their slights and insults.
I just wanted to add my support. Age is not a complete indicator of maturity. A lot of great people are on this board and are glad to see a young man has such an interest in the subway.
I'm sure you can tell who is supportive, feel free to email those people.
I'm sure you will have alot of fun learning about all the history of our subways.
Bill/Piggo
If you think the effects of cigarette smoke are THAT bad down there (to which I think that's fooey) then go ahead and stop going to Lower Manhattan because of it.
Besides, as someone else made a reference to, what about other areas of the city? It's not like ALL the smokers in NY go down to Lower Manhattan to light one up just to piss YOU off.
No one else has complained about the air quality in Lower Manhattan so I don't think the air quality is as bad as you make it seem.
Gotta understand that the world doesn't revolve around you.
Calm down, amigo
Have something to eat
Enjoy the view
Think back to happier times
Or ride a train
Just calm down. Or you'll bust a vessel and won't make it to 12. Haha!
Your pal,
Fred
The second pic is from the Roosevelt Island Tram from a few weeks ago.
The 3rd pic is from the Circle Line from spring 2001 (I think)
The last pic is from the r/f window of the 7 train entering Queensboro Plaza.
Hope you enjoyed the pics; I sure had fun while I took them.
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
You would have far more problems from Vehicle fumes than the fumes caused by Cig smoke.
Additionally, as someone pointed out, you weren't in Lower manhattan on those buses.
Which reminds me. Cars ought to be banned from certain parts of Manhattan: Central Park, Lower Manhattan (except for West Street, due to the ferry on the southern tip), the Village, and most non-Robert-Moses-rehash parts of Manhattan south of the Lincoln Tunnel. Even with West Street, I'd restrict cars (and jack up car fares on the S.I. Ferry through the roof). Exceptions would be granted to taxi and stretch limo companies.
Anyone willing to debunk this idea? Go straight ahead :)
Cars are not allowed on the Staten Island Ferry.
Joined by R32_Rocks(We go to the same school)
We Started at 34th/Herald Square where we took a B to Brighton Beach.
Then the B68 to Stillwell Avenue for the D, which we got off at Bay Parkway
for a photostop. After taking a few pics, we grabbed the next D to 62th St where we got
the N, where we took it to QBP for some more photos. We then went to Ditmars for the
hope of seeing an Amtrak train on the Hells Gate Bridge. We then took a W to Lexington
Ave and the 4 to Grand Central, where we walked around GCT a little, then I went to
Penn Station and went home.
Here are some of my best shots Today(I think)
Pregame
NJT ALP-46 in Sunnyside Yard (From a LIRR train)
In-Game
When we got to Brighton Beach, I got my own messed up Rollsign picture.
Work Loco 885 at Stillwell Avenue (You can see the construction as well). I think this
was my best shot today.
Picture of Stillwell Avenue Today
Work Loco 63 (Digital Zoom on my Camera helped)
D Train entering Bay Parkway
.... now towards the end...
W Train Leaving QBP
7 Train entering QBP
N Train entering Ditmars
The entire Album is available here.
Password to the album is subtalk
Comments/Suggestions are Welcome.
--MetsFan4552
You'll have to check back for a DefJef post tomorrow...
:P
If Dave is interested in the full size pictures of the Work Locomotives for this site(They are nice pictures), I'll happily send them as long as I get credit for them.
Your pal,
Fred
My own thoughts:
1. The Dodgers never would've left. The Brooklyn government would've made sure of it. And so, you'd have no Mets.
2. JFK Airport would not exist. The City of Brooklyn would've developed Floyd Bennet Field as the major NY area airport.
3. The IRT would not have expanded into Brooklyn beyond Borough Hall. The BMT would've been allowed to go into Manhattan only to City Hall. The Astoria line would be an IRT line connecting to the 7 at Queensboro Plaza.
4. The IND would've stopped its southbound progress at Fulton St., Manhattan. Most of the BMT Brooklyn els would still be there.
What do you all think?
Other unique US city pairs that NY/Brooklyn would have resembled that you forget to mention are Boston/Cambridge, Philadelphia/Camden and El Paso/Ciudad Juarez.
It isn't too small to have become a permanent home for the Dodgers (as well as an excuse to extend the Flatbush Ave line -- if it ever got built).
CG
Well if we're going for silly...
The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge would NOT have been built, but we might have seen at least one, and possibly two, cross-harbor tunnels.
The BMT Fulton El Would Serve The Rockaways
The BMT Myrtle, Lexington, 3rd Avenue & 5th Avenue El's would still Be In Service
BMT Canarsie Line Would still run to Canarsie Pier and have the Grade Crossing At East 105th Street Station
Standards, Bluebirds, Q Cars, C Cars, Triplex, Zephers, Low V's would Still Run (Updated and Mondernised)
Joint IRT-BMT Service To New Lots and Brooklyn College
No IND
Streetcars updated to light rail standards.
AND NO 76th STREET Station!!!!!
Okay, for sure the Real Estate scene would be totally different without consolidation. With the values staying higher, today there would be fewer slums, for sure fewer housing projects. A Twin City Brooklyn would be and not a hinterland of sorts. The sky line would resemble that of the battery.... (Tell me I am wrong; I am not.) Who is to say the brooklyn would not have had the greatest and talest building in the world? There would be neighborhoods that would have taken completely diffferent paths: bed stuy, Crown Heights, Greenpoint, etc.
Is it crazy to say that the U.N. could have put it worthless self in Brooklyn? Close to the Airports, be it Floyd Bennet, or something else.
The horrible and unthinkable Gowanus Elevated highway would not be there. The water fronts could have also had a hugely different development sceme as well. The Gowanus canal might even be checkered with cafes, etc.
Brooklyn would have negotiated for itself, keeping Dem Bums. Yankee fans would continue to Love to hate the Dodgers, and not just hate the dodger for takng away a team Yankee fans loved to hate. They would have a Stadium at the intersection of Walter O'Mally Boulevard Jackie Robinson Avenue. 1986 & 1969 might have been the Brooklyn's. And maybe Brooklyn would have failed to get A-rod. Perhaps too there would have never been a New Jersey Nets cause brooklyn probabaly would have snagged them before they went to NJ.
The people there too would be, of, shall we say, ummm, you know, of a higher caliber, better adjusted for Post indusdtrial city living. I doubt there would be as big a west indie, et al presence. (Screams of Racism anyone?) The crime curve that we have seen out there would have been different.
Just the name Brooklyn would evoke a whole different experience. The name Brooklyn could have been as imperial sounding as New York City. This region would be referred to by a regional name for both cities of New York/Brooklyn, like maybe the "Harbor Cities" or something that would be cleverly coined... And, a regional name would be coined by a real daily brooklyn News Paper, which there is none to speak of today, at least none of merit.
Coney Island and it's horrible housing project clusters perhaps would not look like something from Communist Poland. The place would not have crashed and burned as it has... Why not still a world class Amusement Park?
And what of the Navy Yards? Go ahead, guess.. I have no idea.
Perhaps there would be more in terms of fine arts, museums, universities. (Sheez, even the bronx has Fordham)
A Tunnel system to Staten Island for auto and rail is not too unthinkable, had their destiny been in their own hands... And, come to think of it, is it too crazy to think that Brooklyn would have a tunnel connecting it to Jersey City? Or is that insane?
The MTA as we know her, would not exist. I am not sure what would have happened. The IND would still have developed as it did, but the BRT/BMT would still have a vestigal presence. Perhaps the IND would be a bridge system of sorts between IRT and BRT/BMT.
Yeah, what a horrible Idea consolidation was for Brooklyn. Forgive these mortals, they know not of what they do...
What do you think?
I just want to say that I disagree with you that there would have been an IND. First, New York would be the more powerful of the two cities, and John Hylan would be ineligible for the mayoralty of New York because he was from Brooklyn. There would still be a state-run MTA (it might have a different name) running what was formerly the IRT and BMT (I have my own take on that, which I'll put in another post).
Oh, and I also disagree that the tallest building would be in Brooklyn. Long Island soil is crap, it's more expensive to build the foundation for a tall building anywhere on LI (that includes Brooklyn) than on "Hill Island" (Manhattan). There would still be tall buildings in Brooklyn, and Downtown Brooklyn would be more vital than it is now, but it would not have the tallest building.
Specifics like the brooklyn dodgers leaving might have been altered but the overall arc of development is driven not by the political associations but rather by the ecomonmic and demographic trends that would have occurred. An important fact to remember is that until mass transit really glued the Manhatten to Brooklyn the Brooklyn of our collective memory (and nostalgia) did not exist. This connection only occured after the consolidation.
The migration of blacks and hispanics to the city seeking the entry level jobs in manufacturing at the same time as those jobs were deserting the city (ies) for the south and ultimately overseas would have occurred regardless of the political associations of the two cities.
The desertion of the city by its middle class base for the suburbs seeking more space (and fleeing the newcomers), the redlining of districts by the banks and the federal government's FHA would have marginilized Brooklyn neighborhoods and accelerated the decay of once beautiful areas even if Brooklyn was its own city, the revitilzation of many of its neighborhoods in the post industrial age would have occurred as well.
So while I agree that specifis of train lines (which topic is fascinating in and of itself) would be different and the Dodgers might have stayed and Floyd Bennett might have become a regional airport, the great waves of change that overtook Brooklyn in the 20th Century would have still occurred.
It is all conjecture.
I'm not sure if there's enough room for the necessary runway lengthening.
Wow, I often wonder about the prospect your raise. Brooklyn lost its ability to negotiate for itself; it is like Brooklyn lost its cullones/cohones/kishkas/nads as well as its brains. The one constant in Brooklyn is that everything crashed since the consolidation, everything lost value, became dilapidated, dependance increased. Brooklyn became undesirable. Unforgivable.
Okay, for sure the Real Estate scene would be totally different without consolidation. With the values staying higher, today there would be fewer slums, for sure fewer housing projects. A Twin City Brooklyn would be and not a hinterland of sorts. The sky line would resemble that of the battery.... (Tell me I am wrong; I am not.) Who is to say the brooklyn would not have had the greatest and talest building in the world? There would be neighborhoods that would have taken completely diffferent paths: bed stuy, Crown Heights, Greenpoint, etc.
Is it crazy to say that the U.N. could have put it worthless self in Brooklyn? Close to the Airports, be it Floyd Bennet, or something else.
The horrible and unthinkable Gowanus Elevated highway would not be there. The water fronts could have also had a hugely different development sceme as well. The Gowanus canal might even be checkered with cafes, etc.
Brooklyn would have negotiated for itself, keeping Dem Bums. Yankee fans would continue to Love to hate the Dodgers, and not just hate the dodger for takng away a team Yankee fans loved to hate. They would have a Stadium at the intersection of Walter O'Mally Boulevard Jackie Robinson Avenue. 1986 & 1969 might have been the Brooklyn's. And maybe Brooklyn would have failed to get A-rod. Perhaps too there would have never been a New Jersey Nets cause brooklyn probabaly would have snagged them before they went to NJ.
The people there too would be, of, shall we say, ummm, you know, of a higher caliber, better adjusted for Post indusdtrial city living. I doubt there would be as big a west indie, et al presence. (Screams of Racism anyone?) The crime curve that we have seen out there would have been different.
Just the name Brooklyn would evoke a whole different experience. The name Brooklyn could have been as imperial sounding as New York City. This region would be referred to by a regional name for both cities of New York/Brooklyn, like maybe the "Harbor Cities" or something that would be cleverly coined... And, a regional name would be coined by a real daily brooklyn News Paper, which there is none to speak of today, at least none of merit.
Coney Island and it's horrible housing project clusters perhaps would not look like something from Communist Poland. The place would not have crashed and burned as it has... Why not still a world class Amusement Park?
And what of the Navy Yards? Go ahead, guess.. I have no idea.
Perhaps there would be more in terms of fine arts, museums, universities. (Sheez, even the bronx has Fordham)
A Tunnel system to Staten Island for auto and rail is not too unthinkable, had their destiny been in their own hands... And, come to think of it, is it too crazy to think that Brooklyn would have a tunnel connecting it to Jersey City? Or is that insane?
The MTA as we know her, would not exist. I am not sure what would have happened. The IND would still have developed as it did, but the BRT/BMT would still have a vestigal presence. Perhaps the IND would be a bridge system of sorts between IRT and BRT/BMT.
Yeah, what a horrible Idea consolidation was for Brooklyn. Forgive these mortals, they know not of what they do...
What do you think?
I am one of them.
Assume for this question that Queens and the Bronx did join NYC, while Brooklyn voted aginst [sic] it.
The non-binding referendum for consolidation in Brooklyn won by a Floridian margin.
1. The Dodgers never would've left. The Brooklyn government would've made sure of it. And so, you'd have no Mets.
Agree
2. JFK Airport would not exist. The City of Brooklyn would've developed Floyd Bennet [sic] Field as the major NY area airport.
Disagree. Brooklyn might have developed that airport and thus New York might not have built LaGuardia, but New York would still develop Idlewild as the large international airport.
3. The IRT would not have expanded into Brooklyn beyond Borough Hall. The BMT would've been allowed to go into Manhattan only to City Hall. The Astoria line would be an IRT line connecting to the 7 at Queensboro Plaza.
Completely disagree. The original subway was built by the city for private companies. Brooklyn would have wanted in on the action just as much as New York, and a private operator would make the fact that it was an intercity operation irrelevant. In nearly every other city, the subway leaves the city limits. NY-Brooklyn would be no exception. The Brooklyn and Williamsburg Bridges (construction of latter begun BEFORE 1898) show that the two cities could cooperate on public works. Through el service ran to Park Row terminal in 1896, while Brooklyn was still free.
4. The IND would've stopped its southbound progress at Fulton St., Manhattan. Most of the BMT Brooklyn els would still be there.
Without an omnipotent City (and with Hylan ineligible to serve in the City Hall on Park Row), there would not have been an IND. The els would have still been standing. The public works budgets of the two cities would have been spent on lines to serve new terrain, instead of replacing existing, perfectly good lines.
My own ideas:
The City of Brooklyn would have tried to develop the Jamaica Bay shorefront as a major port as New York later did. I am unsure if they would have succeeded, but it would have been more likely.
There would still be housing projects in Brooklyn, but Brooklyn would have been more mindful of destroying neighborhoods like Coney Island.
Moses would not have been as powerful, but he still would have done a lot. Coney Island would be more vital than it is now.
Downtown Brooklyn would be better developed, since it would be important to the city's well being. Many of the companies now in Jersey City would be in Brooklyn.
The subway would run to Yonkers and Mount Vernon.
I know it seems odd to associate continued Brooklyn independence with that, but since the subway was already leaving the City of New York in one place, it would be less of a big deal to leave in another.
Remember, this is why the San Fernando Valley joined the City of Los Angeles. LA organized the water system, those towns like Northridge and Woodland Hills wanted water, they lacked it and the ability to pay for it. So they joined the bigger, and richer city. Other LA County cities like Santa Monica and Pasadena tapped their own watersheds, or entered into contracts with the state or LA county to syphon off of their's.
And the next time you visit the Bay Area, half of its 5.5 million people get their water from San Francisco's Hetch Hetchy system. But only 800,000 people live in San Francisco. Somehow the City fathers in San Francisco made it happen without forcing other cities to join the party. And when a town objected to the Aqueduct coming through its land, San Francisco gave them free water. Modesto, home of Laci Peterson, boasts as its motto "Water, Welath, Commitment, Health." They paid NOTHING for that water, except signing over an easement beneath some streets.
Another NYC consolidation fact, the cops who patrol Staten Island refer to themselves as "Richmond County Sheriffs."
Originally the City of Brooklyn got its water from LI, while the other towns got their water from aquifers which were dangerously approaching exhaustion.
I think that in the end, Brooklyn would have invested in the system NYC was building, and they would have shared. Just like your SF example, there are Westchester locales that use NYC water because it goes right on through. Parts of Queens are on a groundwater system (like the rest of LI).
Another NYC consolidation fact, the cops who patrol Staten Island refer to themselves as "Richmond County Sheriffs."
Which is wrong, because there are real Richmond County sheriffs.
Therw was and there is such subway in NYC - H&M.
Arti
Arti
Your point about the H&M is completely a herring
Philadelphia/Camden is the right one. Brooklyn would have been Camden. Or perhaps East St Louis. Or Detroit. Or Buffalo.
Little known fact from the U.S. Department of Commerce, Buerau of Economic Analysis: Manhattan accounts for HALF of all the private sector earnings in the New York State. Not New York City. Not the New York Metropolitan Region. The entire state!
Even with that huge businsess taxbase New York City is forced to collect among the nation's highest taxes for good to in some cases (public schools) underfunded and awful services. Some of this is the result of the bad policies of the past, and I guess that you could argue that Brooklyn could have avoided New York City's debt and pension crimes (but not those imposed by the State of New York). But much of it is due to a huge and needy dependent low income population, something common to all older cities.
If Brooklyn had not joined New York City, some of the subway infrastructure connecting it to Manhattan would not have been built, and fewer of its residents would commute to Manhattan. When manufacturing and the port declined after 1950, there would have been no Manhattan job base and no Manhattan taxes spent on government services to cushion the blow. The white flight, job loss, and building abandonment of the 1960s and 1970s would have been faster. The collapse of public services would have been deeper and irreversible. And the subsequent gentrification of neighborhoods closer to Manhattan would not have occurred.
Note that virtually every city in the top 20 in 1950, the high water mark of pre-suburban urban America, has lost more than one-third of its population. Most have lost far more. Brooklyn peaked at 2.7 million, and still has 2.4 million.
Except that New York would not have been Philadelphia. The better city pair analogy is New York/Jersey City.
And the mass transit analogy would be PATH.
Arti
What about the KQLR?
Most of us on the trip will be within the 15-25 age range.
If you wish more info, you can contact me via aim at R682770
From a weather standpoint, Denver or San Diego would be great places to visit in July.
-- Ed Sachs
-Chris
R21 Car Numbers 7212-7214-7223
R22 Car Number 7640
-Chris
What If Nassau County Did Not Split Off From Queens?
How Would Subway, LIRR and/or bus service exist today serving Queens based upon the pre 1/1/1899 Borders (NYC Bordering Suffolk County)?
-Chris
:-) Andrew
Apart from Nassau and Bronx, all of NY's other county boundaries were fixed by 1850.
(A)(E) to Sunrise Mall Via Merrick Road and Sunrise Highway
(J) To Nassau Hub/Roosevelt Field/Uniondale Via Hempstead Avenue/Tpke
(F) To Walt Whitman Mall Via Hillside Avenue and Jerico Turnpike
(7) To Oyster Bay Via Northern Blvd.
LIRR Service Would Not Change.
Most riders would have died of old age long before the J gets halfway to Roosevelt Field.
Hey, ya could dream, right?
Glad you told the rider to mind his own business.
How was the lower level closed off?
In that case, yes, I would have sent the westbounds trhough first.
The LIRR provides LI to NYC service. Any LI to LI service is just conicidental: a by product of needing more trainsets in the east. Were it not for that, and a few NYC to LI customers coming home at that hour, they would not bother with reverse service at all.
Enjoy the ride, you'll get to where you are going soon enough. Fifty minutes is not such a big deal: Out here, if AMTK arrives on the right day, it is marked in the book as an on-time arrival.
: ) Elias
Thanks...
70's, I think.
-Chris
DefJef Nat'l Monument, Brooklyn (not really)
This sign should be on the nycsubway.org main page.
DefJef heading to work.
The originals.
A DefJef-ian Biography
A female DefJef(its possible)
Another sign to put on nycsubway.org
-Chris
And how much time did you spend on Google images to find these?
-Chris
Just hopefully you won't build a reputation as being the "troll-boy" or the guy that finds a zillion pics of trolls...you could probably make a website out of it.
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Chris
-Chris
til next time
-Insert closing statement here-
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
First cars to operate to Callowhill Depot
Guys,
Went over to Philadelphia today on the chance that SEPTA would be conducting operator training with the PCC-II cars on route 15. They were not. However, I decided to take a run up to Callowhill Depot to see if anything was going on there. As luck would have it, as I drove up 60th St, I saw two Kawasakis headed south preceded by a wire truck. The wire truck crew was reconnecting the feeder wires as they went along, so as to provide power to the overhead. The cars sat on 60th street, at Callowhill, until the wire truck had reconnected all the feeders along Callowhill up to 58th St. At that point, the cars turned left from 60th into Callowhill and proceeded to 58th St. Since this track has not seen a car in years, there was all kinds of sparking from the overhead wire and track. At the corner of 58th and Callowhill, of course, there was a car parked at the corner preventing the trolley from making a right turn into 58th St. After some discussion, they decided to push the car back a few feet. This did this with one of their trucks. Both trolleys were now able to turn into 58th St and then almost immediately into Bay 3 of the Depot. This happened after several people attempted to clean years of dirt out of the rail just outside the bay. Apparently their effort was not completely successful, because there was a dead spot. Fortunately, the first car had enough speed (barely) to coast over it. The second car also just made it over. The cars passed through the bay to the other side (59th St) without incident, only to find another car illegally parked on the sidewalk, again blocking the way. This time the car belonged to a SEPTA employee. Again, after some discussion, the trusty truck was moved into position and pushed the car (a Mercedes) several feet out of the way. With more sparking at the rail and overhead, the two Kawasakis left the barn and proceeded up 58th St to Girard. Since it was getting late, the two cars headed back to Elmwood Depot, via Girard Ave to Lancaster Ave (route 10).
One of the operator trainees I spoke to has already operated the PCC-II's. He told me that they are great to operate, very smooth, and that the brakes are excellent, better than the Kawasaki's. There was no consensus, however, when service on route 15 would start. Someone thought the date might be June 13 (as posted on the internet), but someone else thought the date would be sometime in September. Guess that we will have to wait and see. Anyway, it was great to see the first cars to operate over this trackage in quite a few years.
Fred
Is it crazy to say that the U.N. could have put it worthless self in Brooklyn? Close to the Airports, be it Floyd Bennet, or something else.
The horrible and unthinkable Gowanus Elevated highway would not be there. The water fronts could have also had a hugely different development sceme as well. The Gowanus canal might even be checkered with cafes, etc.
Brooklyn would have negotiated for itself, keeping Dem Bums. Yankee fans would continue to Love to hate the Dodgers, and not just hate the dodger for takng away a team Yankee fans loved to hate. They would have a Stadium at the intersection of Walter O'Mally Boulevard Jackie Robinson Avenue. 1986 & 1969 might have been the Brooklyn's. And maybe Brooklyn would have failed to get A-rod. Perhaps too there would have never been a New Jersey Nets cause brooklyn probabaly would have snagged them before they went to NJ.
The people there too would be, of, shall we say, ummm, you know, of a higher caliber, better adjusted for Post indusdtrial city living. I doubt there would be as big a west indie, et al presence. (Screams of Racism anyone?) The crime curve that we have seen out there would have been different.
Just the name Brooklyn would evoke a whole different experience. The name Brooklyn could have been as imperial sounding as New York City. This region would be referred to by a regional name for both cities of New York/Brooklyn, like maybe the "Harbor Cities" or something that would be cleverly coined... And, a regional name would be coined by a real daily brooklyn News Paper, which there is none to speak of today, at least none of merit.
Coney Island and it's horrible housing project clusters perhaps would not look like something from Communist Poland. The place would not have crashed and burned as it has... Why not still a world class Amusement Park?
And what of the Navy Yards? Go ahead, guess.. I have no idea.
Perhaps there would be more in terms of fine arts, museums, universities. (Sheez, even the bronx has Fordham)
A Tunnel system to Staten Island for auto and rail is not too unthinkable, had their destiny been in their own hands... And, come to think of it, is it too crazy to think that Brooklyn would have a tunnel connecting it to Jersey City? Or is that insane?
The MTA as we know her, would not exist. I am not sure what would have happened. The IND would still have developed as it did, but the BRT/BMT would still have a vestigal presence. Perhaps the IND would be a bridge system of sorts between IRT and BRT/BMT.
Yeah, what a horrible Idea consolidation was for Brooklyn. Forgive these mortals, they know not of what they do...
What do you think?
-Chris
Just make sure they don't land on and squash you.
You were probably too distracted by what was lying in the foreground, but do you remember hearing anyone singing and playing- probably James Taylor, Elton John or other 'easy listening rock'?
It's nice to know the L still has some railfan windows- and quite surprising to see that half the weekday consists are R42s. On the weekend, it's solid 143s in whatever permutation the L is running, whether it's full length or various shuttles.
That nice, clean restroom at the Coney Island Nathan's is a wonderful secret. It may not be so nice and clean anymore once the warm weather really hits.
You must've been exhausted after all the railfanning. I've been after the three times I've gone to Port Jervis, and that's WITHOUT the additional railfanning in Brooklyn you did. What time did you get home?
Actually I think the 42/143 ratio might be more 1 out of three being 42's-I left the 42 outbound at Montrose,switched over,took a 143 one stop,then let another 143 pass before a 42 showed...I try and imagine what doing the Canarsie was like when the Multis were on it-they supposedly were able to cover the weekend srvice on the Carnarsie with something like 9sets of those they were SO fast...
was it....goooooold? If so, the T/O is a lurker here.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Actually, it is some politician's pet project---specifically, Sheldon Silver, the State Assembly majority leader, who represents several of the neighborhoods that would benefit from the SAS.
Also, the very-well-connected MTA chairman, Peter Kalikow, has been aggressively selling the project with his Republican buddies in Washington.
None of this is any guarantee, of course, but the project has all the stars aligned in its favor.
Silver is the minority leader.
Peace,
ANDEE
The real problem is that we can no longer "cut and cover" to build any more subway lines and must use the most expensive method of drilling underground. Using the "cut and cover" technique would save hundreds of millions and could probably be done in 18 months.
This is a misinformed and misguidedly optimistic statement.
Cut and cover cannot be done faster than tunneling anymore because of the disruption involved. Deep tunneling requires much less utility relocation, much less surface mitigation and nowadays, with TBMs, can be done faster and more cheaply in the past.
Mark
I see the new guy is starting to pick at some of our old sores :-(
This has been a subject talked about at length here ... we call it the 2nd Ave STUBway :-(
More recently the Mayor started to push the MTA to extend the #7 West.
The problem there is that the MTA is in such a deep financial hole already they don't want to dust off there old plans or even think about the project PERIOD :-(
Alas, my father Z'L (of blessed Memory) was right: He always said he would never live to see the damn SAS... Am I left to die without it too?
Good to finally have a handle
It will take a disaster or very bad reversal making the construction of SAS easier.
Good to SEE you come out from behind the curtain
and looking frorward to meeting you on a "Field Trip".
(one of the ones I do frequently is Main Street Flushing to Long Beach ... for me it's the L-O-N-G way home I call it the Field Trip to the Beaches of Rock & Long)
Of course, subways are still built faster in Europe than they are in the U.S., and Europeans are comfortable too. So comfort and prosperity are obviously not the only factors.
Mark
VERY WELL SAID...
without the great divisions three?
IRT, BMT, IND.
The NYCS
is the largest in the US.
But some people just complain.
Most people (like us) do not see the pain.
The NYC Subway is glorious,
it was a gift from the city to us!
The subway was finished in nineteen-o-four,
here's the anniversary in 2004.
One hundred years, but there's still gonna be more.
Hip hip hooray!
We can all enjoy this wonderful pleasure
known as railfanning that we will all treasure
for years to come and by the way,
I have more to say...Hey!
I haven't thanked the TA yet,
but I have to send my pet to the vet.
Dedicated to TA employees like Train Dude, OnTheJuice, WESTCODE44, and the entire MTA workforce.
This poem was arranged and typed by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn (who does not really have any pets, actually.).
I hope you like it (especially MTA employees at this board like Train Dude, OnTheJuice, and WESTCODE44.). :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
Pt. I: Logos for three divisions, B&W clip of men finihing the NYC Subway back in 1904.
Pt. II: Railfans raising their hands saying "yay".
Pt. III: Railfans in the NYC Subway (because of my tastes, the train would be an R142A on the (4)) taking pictures and videotaping.
Pt. IV: Railfans shaking hands w/ MTA employees.
Pt. V: Me taking my pet to the vet. ;-) That would be the comedy of the video.
Whaddaya think?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodawn)
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
>>Click here for feedback page.
-Chris
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Anyhow, click the thumbnail below to see the photos that I took. Captions and highlights will come later, as I must sleep now.
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
http://www.railfanwindow.com/gallery/album119/IMG_9570
Note the E-unit on theright with the old bloody nose paint scheme.
I keep forgetting why those locos are there. I take a pic of them every time I go by on Amtrak.
AEM7's -- repainted AEM7's (possibly even an AEM7AC) on the dead line already? That cannot be!!
AEM7
Also:
April 3, 2004 — Fire forced hundreds of Amtrak passengers from their train in Bucks County. The train was near old Route 13 in Tullytown when flames erupted in the engine of the train.
It was headed from Washington to New York City at about 6:30 Friday night. The fire was quickly doused but 350 passengers onboard had to get on other trains to finish their commute to the Big Apple. (Copyright 2004 by Action News. All Rights Reserved.)
Chaohwa
AEM7's -- repainted AEM7's (possibly even an AEM7AC) on the dead line already? That cannot be!!
AEM7
While the Orthodox wouldn't (due to their travel restrictions), the more liberal of us might, and that prompted this question: did anyone ever hold a Seder on a train, and would anyone like to try? (Besides me, I mean.)
Yes, they're available on 72 hours' notice, according to the Amtrak website.
http://www.amtrak.com/plan/accessibility-diet.html
Alan Follett
Hercules, CA
Bob
Bob
OK here are my 4 questions:
1) Why is this train different from all other trains?
2) Why on all other nights we swipe our MetroCards once but on this night we swipe twice?
3) Why on all other nights the train is an express but on this night it is a local?
4) Why on all other nights we ride sitting up but on this night we ride reclining (and take up 2 seats)
In my opinion, the obvious choice, for the subway line on which to hold the Seder, is the "Echad" train.
Saving a glass of wine for Elijah is no problem. The real issue is: how do you manage to save him a seat, too?
What makes this train different from all other trains? On all other trains, we can't find a seat at all, but on this train, we all recline.
SubTalk speaks of four sons: the wise son, the son who holds the doors, the son who refuses to ride the local, and the son who speaks of the trunk lines by color.
If you had built the IRT but hadn't built the BMT, it would have been enough. If you had built the BMT but hadn't built the IND, it would have been enough. If you had built the IND but hadn't built the Second System, it would have been enough. (Wait a minute!)
Great is he, great is he, may he build his Second Avenue Subway soon. Speedily, speedily, in our days, soon.
Who knows one? I know one! One is the 7th Avenue-Broadway local, in the heaven and under the earth.
One little MetroCard, one little MetroCard, that my father bought for two dollars, one little MetroCard, one little MetroCard.
You had more than four cups, didn't you?
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
With drunk being the operative word by that time.
Not with wine.
Depends on the size of your glass :-)
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Actually, I believe they could. As long as the train wasn't chartered just for that specific purpose, there's no reason why a seder couldn't be held on a train. Orthodox families hold them on cruise ships every year. Now why anyone would want to make a Passover dinner out of Mealmart or Wilton heat-and-serves is another question altogether....
Also, prayers would be accompanied by the rumbling of the rails. This could be used to dramatize the Seder, so this is not necessarily a problem.
Also, the sheer symbolism of a railroad Seder - that of movement, of going from one place to another - recalls that of our flight from the Egyptians, while the rails that hold the trains on its chartered course remind one of the bondage of slavery. (Of course, the logically symbolic conclusion - the derailment - bothers me, because derailment leads to people getting hurt. On the other hand, perhaps it isn't logically symbolic after all: derailment also prevents the train from going anywhere.)
Furthermore, there is the trembling of the trains: "The mountains lept like rams, and the hills galloped like young lambs..." or whatever that verse was supposed to be.
One last issue with a railroad Seder: the Afikomen. This is a chunk of matzah people hide for the kids to find for a reward. Care should be taken to limit the search to the insides of one car of rolling stock! Otherwise, kids would be heading out into the vestibules, and someone might get hurt!
In prep for the seder, kosher the kitchen, because Bubbie and Zayde would demand this sorta thing, and then make sure thr cups, plates, Manischevitz, and Haggadot, etc. are properly distributed. It is recommended for kitchens to be in the same car as the dining room; if this cannot be done, than take extra care when carrying (or, perhaps, trucking) food through the vestibules.
Seems to me a typical RR dining car seats 44... would that be enough for your extended family? (It would for mine, but it wouldn't come close for my wife's... to handle all the cousins, their spouses, and their children and grandchildren we'd need at least five cars if not six.)
What door can we safely open for Elijah? (And how can he board a train moving at 79 mph?)
And another question that might arise, assuming we were trying to do this in the general geographic area where my wife's family lives... how do we handle the interruption when we have to clear Customs at either Port Huron/Sarnia or Sault Ste. Marie?
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Ayup.
Seems to me a typical RR dining car seats 44... would that be enough for your extended family? (It would for mine, but it wouldn't come close for my wife's... to handle all the cousins, their spouses, and their children and grandchildren we'd need at least five cars if not six.)
Yeah. Typical family seders in my family run to about 20 people, maybe 25. I'm amazed that some treat seders like a Bar Mitzvah in terms of number of invitations!
What door can we safely open for Elijah? (And how can he board a train moving at 79 mph?)
Good question! The rear door, maybe? Perhaps we should couple the door-opening with a stop somewhere. (Just make sure nobody falls overboard in such a door opening.)
And another question that might arise, assuming we were trying to do this in the general geographic area where my wife's family lives... how do we handle the interruption when we have to clear Customs at either Port Huron/Sarnia or Sault Ste. Marie?
Kibitzing, the aforementioned Elijah manuever, etc., would work. Your call. :)
What if you finish dinner at Babylon, and it turns out that some imp hid the Afikoman in the Lynbrook waiting room? And the return train would reach Lynbrook after midnight?
For dessert, any place on 13th Avenue that might be open!!
If the tooth fairy can do it, so can ELijah :)
--Mark
Wow, does that bring back memories... my older son was visited by the tooth fairy on the Silver Meteor when he was six and a half. He wiggled the tooth out while we were waiting to board in Rocky Mount, North Carolina.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
--Mark
Mark
Port Washington?
No, though I see your logic.
Far Rockaway Branch?
Right!
And who says New Yorkers are strange? Californians are even stranger, eh?
Mark
It's been a few years since I was out there----Essentially, you get off of I-5 at Avery---go west, go through a light for a road that parallels I-5, then hang a right into a development (My uncle refers to this road as a "jug handle" entrance into the development because you can't exit the development on this road---Anyhow, you come to a stop sign, hang a left and go up a hill into the development---I don't remember the name of the main road up the hill, but I know it by sight...perhaps if you know the development, and gave me the name of a few roads, I might recognize the names...
Mark
p.s.---There's nothing on the planet like Southern California---I truly fell in love with San Diego when I was out there in '01
That area is about a mile from the Mugs Away Saloon,home of the "Mooning Amtrak" tradition!!!
Mark
The REAL funny thing is a picture they do NOT have on their website...won't say who took it, but the photo shows a "full moon" hanging out the cab door of one of the Amtrak locomotives on a passing train!!! The engineer decided to have a little fun, I guess.
Try running a dual-mode consist down the Rockaway Branch.
The OLD Rockaway Branch. :-)
Not that there's any track left to use. [sniff]
Dont Smoke! (not that I ever have)
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Heh. Better not start a thread about how the Eastern Division was neglected in the 60's and 70'....
Seriously though, good luck. It's a wise decision, no matter how hard.
I did have a question about the routing though. The Gold Line passes through some walkable neighborhoods along Marmion Way, which is good for transit, but I looked a block over on Figueras and saw it was an old-style downtown business district, while Marmion was residential. Wouldn't Figueras have been a better choice for the route? It would have brougt exposure and customers to the businesses along the street.
I was also disappointed to see empty seats on the Gold Line during rush hour. I hope the Gold Line isn't another "line to nowhere." I know the Blue Line is a success (it was always packed when I rode it) because is goes where people want to go. Was the Gold Line's route not as prudent a choice?
Which brings me to my next question. What would be some good routes in the LA area for future lines, routes that need rail service and could duplicate the Blue Line's success? I think the Gold Line extension to East LA sounds like it might be such a route, given how overcrowded the buses serving East LA already are. (Yeah, I know about the BRU...) Anyone know of any other possible routes?
I was pleased to see that Long Beach seems to be a walkable area around the loop that terminates the Blue Line. I saw mixed use development in that area, lots of business on the street and apartment buildings close by. That's encouraging. I hope planners at the Blue Line's northern end can get the hint.
And finally, I kept wondering if the Blue Line shouldn't have been built as a heavy subway or elevated line. The passenger load and distance the route covers seem to warrant it. (Too bad LA currently has a ban on using its own money for this mode.) But even if the Blue Line were heavy rail, I'd keep a streetcar loop in downtown Long Beach. That seemed to enhance the neighborhood.
Mark
Maybe a streetcar in santa monica? Be more of a novelty though if it was possible.
If not, I guess they could send one through Watts or Compton, since rail is good for redevelopment. Could you imagine? haha.
Mark
There had been talk of a Red Line extension to Santa Monica (via the Wilshire branch that currently ends at Western Av), but that is unlikely at this point. A line that might eventually make it to Santa Monica is the future Exposition Blue Line.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Mark
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Those hills are already the usual brown/grey color.
This was actually considered during the planning stages for the Blue Line in the early 80s. I remember reading an article in the Daily Trojan (USC campus newspaper) about that. I think the plan was to use the old Pacific Electric Santa Monica Air Line (the tracks that run in the median of Exposition Blvd for a few miles) to get to the Long Beach ROW, but ultimately the alignment along Washington Blvd was chosen. Not sure if they would have used Figueroa or Flower from downtwon to USC. Part of the Air Line will be used for the Exposition Blue Line, which will use the current Long Beach blue line route to Washington Blvd and Hill street, then head down Hill and onto the Air Line out to Palms/Culver City.
The Metrolonk line to San Bernardino has a stop at a university campus. I think it's California State Univesity at Los Angeles.
Next year, straphangers who ride the once-maligned line will board computer-operated trains that can roll down the tracks without an operator, officials said yesterday.
Starting in March, L trains will be operated by a high-tech system called Communication Based Train Control that will allow them to run closer together, meaning more riders can be accommodated during peak travel times.
The $287 million project, which started in 1999, will allow a computer to run the trains, but transit officials said an operator will be at the controls at all times and can override the automatic system in the event of an emergency.
The completion of the automated system coincides with the subway's centennial celebration and will transform the antiquated line, which runs from 14th Street and Eighth Avenue, through Brooklyn's newly fashionable Williamsburg and then out to Canarsie, into one of the most sophisticated in the country.
"This will be one of the latest renovations to our century-old system," said MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow. "It will bring about added capacity, shorter travel time and greater efficiencies."
The MTA will begin installing the high-tech system on the No. 7 line next year.
The L and the 7 were chosen to go first because they're the only major lines in the system that don't share tracks with other routes.
Officials said they hope the 7-line conversion will be completed by 2010 and most of the rest of the system by 2025.
The L line got a partial makeover two years ago when the Metropolitan Transportation Authority bought new cars in anticipation of the new technology.
The project will also include upgrading stations, equipping platforms with information screens telling riders how long they have to wait and alerting them to service disruptions.
Although the project has crippled weekend service over the past year, L riders said it's worth it in exchange for the new technology.
"This line has been ignored for so long," said Ralph Perez, 31, as he waited for a Manhattan-bound L train at Bedford Avenue yesterday.
"Now it's going to be the best in the city."
NEW YORK POST is a registered trademark of NYP Holdings, Inc. NYPOST.COM, NYPOSTONLINE.COM, and NEWYORKPOST.COM
are trademarks of NYP Holdings, Inc.
Copyright 2003 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The L will have the best train cars and the most modern signal system (but it still has to prove itself. This system was successful in France; let's see what it does here).
Now they have to continue fixing up the stations!
If they really do all the things they say, including:
-- renovating all the stations that haven't yet been renovated;
-- installing computerized displays showing the time to the next train, and alerting riders of any delays or re-routes;
-- running more trains at shorter headways during rush hours;
...then I think the L might legitimately be called the best line in the city.
correct me if I'm wrong, but that's also the life expectancy of the cueent signal systems as well, right?
It's tough to get BetaMAX tapes today, isn't it?
NYCT hasn't announced. They probably haven't even decided. That's why you are getting no responses.
Because they're only shutting down on weekends, and even then they never shut down more than a part of the line.
Maybe I just don't know what is involved in the whole process, and that's why it just sounds overly long to do to me.
A lot of people ride the L from Union Square to Lorimer, or even a lesser distance. It takes 10 minutes by train. Try doing that in 10 minutes with a bus!!! They forgot to build the 14th St bridge.
No, it's not. CBTC is not ATO. Why are they so often confused?
I do expect better from the SubTalkers posting in this thread. Perhaps I should lower my expectations.
But since I started the thread, I can only assume that I am included in the SubTalkers group you mention.
That said,
Number 1: You don't know me.
Number 2: The nasty tone is not appreciated.
Number 3: I am sorry if I am not up to date on train terms as you are. I am a simple train buff. This is not my career or livelihood. It is a hobby of mine.
Number 4: If the term chosen was a mistake, a simple correction to the oversight is more than enough. I was going to respond to your original post to thank you for pointing out the difference.
Then I read this email. I work in computer tech support, and I never talk down to people for mistaking RAM for hard drive space or when they mix up Windows 2000 for Word 2000. I simply point out the difference to them. I don't talk down to them because doing so will get me reprimanded. I do it out of respect.
Number 5: I was simply posting an article I found in the NYC papers. I do this on a regular basis as a contribution so that fellow subtalkers have some conversation material. Since I assumed what they were speaking about in the article was automatic operation, that is the title of the thread I chose. I obviously do not know that there are different terms to define how trains operate.
Number 6: Have a good day and a Happy Holiday.
I do expect better from the SubTalkers posting in this thread. Perhaps I should lower my expectations."
The article said that the T/O would just sit there and watch. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that the article meant ATO even if it didn't say so. The article could easily be wrong, but Subtalkers weren't wrong in interpreting the article as implying ATO.
Obviously, some source in the MTA told a Post reporter that it's going ATO as well as CBTC. This may of course be the same well informed source who told the Post the V was being extended to Church Ave.
Thanks
Umass Amherst is out in the western part of the state, closer to Springfield. No MBTA service there. Best bet is Peter Pan Bus.
AEM7
449 Boston-South Station, MA to Springfield, MA
Dep. 11:50am Arr. 2:10pm
56 Springfield, MA to Amherst, MA
Dep. 2:30pm Arr. 3:35pm
If my conductor friend is on the #449 leg, he'll probably let you change at Palmer if #449 is running late. #449 usually leaves Boston on time, and makes pretty good time to Albany, and #56 is usually late coming up the Northeast Corridor from Washington, so the connexion should be okay. It's coming back the way that might be the problem, as #448 is frequently two hours down which potentially leaves you in Springfield for far longer than you want.
AEM7
I don't know why I wasn't aware of where Amhurst is located, I typed it into MAPQUEST and it gave me a location near Norwood MA.
It looks like I have two tickets and not much use for them. It seems the schedules to the Amhurst Springfield area is sparse to say the least, and with my girlfriend amazing ability to be late for absolutely EVERYTHING. It sound like it just can't work.
Oh well, I got a week to think it over.
It's Amherst. Mapquest couldn't find "Amhurst" and put the star on a random spot in the state.
#0709 PPB 08:00 AM
#0713 PPB 10:00 AM
#0717 PPB 12:01 PM
#0721 PPB 01:30 PM
#0723 PPB 03:00 PM
#0729 PPB 05:15 PM
#0733 PPB 08:00 PM
http://www.peterpanbus.com/
How difficult can this be? Do some research on your own, don't just give up two tickets!!
AEM7
Is this a useless make work project, or does it have any merit?
I think it may have merit, cause, well, my business is in Harlem... So it would be useful to residents of Harlem... It would be valuable to the immediate area around CPW and 103 as well.... It just seems obvious to have such a connection.... Or, as an IND local stop, is it not as desirable were it an IND express stop?
What merit would it have?
What would be the possible destination served by this transfer and not served by current options?
Arti
It would remove the double transfer at 72nd then 59th for anyone trying to get from the Uptown/Bronx 2/3 to any point on the IND.
Again, the lines exist already. Harlem is underserved overall. This unites the two lines up here...
Why would anyone transfer from express to local?
Arti
Also, the IRT express may be too far underground to make a connection. Also, does the IRT cross Central Park West at 103 St.(or realistically between 102 - 104 St)? I don't know. If it's at 100th St. or 105, the transfer would be difficult.
Harlem is underserved??? There are 3 lines serving Harlem (4 if you count MetroNorth) - The 8th Avenue line (A,B,C,D), the Broadway line (1, 9) and the 7th Av/Lenox line (2,3).
Maybe it is me but that is quite a bit of service for any area.
A new station with a connection between the 7th Av/Lenox and the 8th Av at 103rd St would be very expensive and would require digging up a section of Central Park. It should be pointed out that the 7th Av/Lenox line crosses under the 8th Av line around 104th or 105th St (based on the maps I have seen) so you would wind up with an inconvenient "walking transfer".
I don't think it is that hard for people in the 103rd St area to walk to either the 8th Av or Broadway lines.
Right now the SAS is what is needed the most. The Lexington Avenue line is past overflowing. Nothing should be allowed to divert attention or funds from that project.
Harlem needs a cross town line going to the LaGuardia. Part of the SAS?
Transfer at 96th Street.
Also commute from residential area to residential area is not a daily problem for anyone.
Arti
7 blocks south.
Arti
Absolutely useless. Give me a source destination pair to whom it would benefit.
«2) under service in Harlem and a possible remedy via 125th Cross town perhaps a spur of SAS»
Different story, would be quite useful and as the SAS is planned to reach 5th Av anyway, not that expensive.
Arti
SAS - Importance is nearly of religeous proportion.
Just think of it this way, whom would it benefit? What would be my destination station, that I'd elect to transfer at 103rd Street?
Arti
I hear where you are comming from....
Ever hear of a crostown bus???
Subways go DOWNTOWN, buses do other things.
Elias
I hear where you are comming from....
The tracks face west.
Arti
Could not have politically possible (and probably not legal at the time).
The IND was built by the City to be in competition with the privately run IRT. As such there would be no incentive on either side to provide such a connection.
:)
OK, Could be true, I'll grant you that, but now ou must remember the history and the nature of subway construction in New York City.
The Bway IRT is the OLDEST LION in the city, and it was made, for whatever reason without a station at 103rd as it enters under the park.
The IND was built by Mayor RED Hylan, with the explicit intention of driving the other subway companies out of business. There is no way that he was going to make any more connections with those money grubbing traction interests than the barest minimum suggested.
So if you must bitch at someone for screwing you up, Mayor RED Hylan is primo target numero uno! Ane we will all help you to snipe at him!
Elias
And who the hell is bitching at anyone?
(Come to think of it, the IRT should have put at station at 103; that is a long stretch between 96 and 110. But I guess the area then did not require it.)
It isn't? I commute from a residential area to a residential area four days per week.
You're 1 of 8 million :-)
Some people commute between places with no subway.
Arti
FWIW, my commute is mostly on the B. The train is very lightly loaded going over the Manhattan Bridge, but it picks up quite a crowd along the Brighton line.
Isn't BB a mixed neighbourhood, like Park 20s.
Arti
And where are the transfer points in the Bronx? They are all in the south Bronx just before the trains go into Manhattan.
"Harlem needs a cross town line going to the LaGuardia"
Harlem already has the M60 bus which goes to LaG.
"To go to Wash. Heights from Da Bronx (White Plains Line) is greatly inconveient. "
You come across as if Harlem is the only area that has inconvenient (and I don't see it as that inconvenient) public transportation. There are plenty of areas in NYC where people have to do a bit of traveling to get to where they want to go (Queens especially). Look at Staten Island with the exception of one rail line all they have are buses. Why should Harlem be more priviledged? Just because your business is in Harlem?
Quite frankly any proposal for additional service in Harlem would be met by loud opposition from the people in Queens.
Good luck with your business! Just think: Costco is over on the Brooklyn waterfron near nothing and it does well; a well-run business giving people what they want but didn't know that they wanted it previously will always attract customers. (Then again, I work for the Federal Government... oh, well :-)
COstco is near 2 major highways. Also 4th Av express stop, although I can't imagine anyone going there without a car.
Arti
Maybe one car in the subway train could be reserved for Costco boxes...
I'm not familiar with the history of just how the IRT 7th Av- West End line was built. This was not cut and cover? Was it drill-and blast type mining?
SO WHAT! ???
I have explained here 16 Billion times...
One seat service may only be expected between outlying areas and the CBD. And some lines (G) (J) (L) can't even do that very well!
That is the way the thing was built. It was intended to get people from their homes to the 'city'.
Anything else requires a TRANSFER!
If you get on the Lenox Avenue (2)/(3) and want to go to Wash Hts, it is a simple matter to change trains at 96th Street, is it not. Or Walk two block an catch an (A) or a (C) train. Is *that* too complicated.
That is as good as it is going to get.
One night, once upon a time, I live on 102nd street just west of Broadway, and as it happened, I was visiting a friend at Flower Fifth Avenue Hospital. The question was: How to get home. Ought I to:
1) take buses around the north end of the park, busses that I had never used before, and knew not of routes or schedules.
2) take a bus around the south end of the park, and then get the Broadway Line.
3) Walk to Lexington, and take a train to GCT, the Shuttle to TS, and then the Broadway home.
or
4) Just walk across the damn park and be done with it!
Well, if you must know, I just walked home across the park.
Elias
Harlem is a highly transit-dependent area with no cross-town subway service and a badly overcrowded eastern rail artery, the Lex.
"Right now the SAS is what is needed the most. The Lexington Avenue line is past overflowing"
Correct. That's part of the justification for "Harlem is underserved."
As to the 103rd St transfer idea, I like it a lot, but your points against giving it any priority are sensible.
103rd street station will not improve that situation at all.
Arti
So is the Bronx and a very large portion of Queens.
And why would it be a walking transfer? Just because the station is called 103rd Street doesn't mean it isn't at least 600 feet long, like every other IND station.
I think a station at 104/Columbus would be very useful, and the free transfer would be the icing on the cake.
Not too many people will use that transfer but a lot of 103/CPW riders may become 2/3 riders.
There are very few instances in which one line passes this closely another line and the two do not connect.
It will happen one day, especially if there is a major realestate develpment in the immediate area....
You mean the park? :-)
Arti
Thanks for seeing the wonderful vision, David.
I thought, that it's already developed.
«If the new station is built, I expect that the Columbus exit will have much greater usage than the CPW exit.»
Probably, but the hike to 96th or 103rd on Broadway is not that long.
Arti
103 and Broadway is the (1), not the (2)(3)....
Why do you consider CPW line unattractive for those potential inhabitants?
Another point to consider is the relative underutilization of the IND line vs IRT.
Arti
One mile north the IRT and IND are also separated by a massive obsticle: the Morningside Height Presicpice.
Wasn't your original reason for the transfer station to enable people to use IND instead of IRT, now it's the oter way round. Anyway as far as the majority destination goes, they mirror each other.
«One mile north the IRT and IND are also separated by a massive obsticle: the Morningside Height Presicpice. »
Do you seriously propose, that someone is going to take 2/3 south to 96th street to transfer to 1 going north, insted of walking to 103rd street and Broadway?
Arti
No, that was not my original reason: the reasons are multi-dimensional.
<>
Yours is a limited litmus test, but, yes, some one could: case in point: a CCNY student living on 108 street could take the (2)(3) to 96 and catch the (1)... The IND is on the other EAST side of the Presipice CCNY, is on the Western Elevated Morningside Height portion.
This is just one example....
Walking is faster and cheaper.
«No, that was not my original reason: the reasons are multi-dimensional. »
Access to northbound 1 for people on Columbus and 103rd can't possibly be considered one.
Arti
Actually, there are quite a few.
B/D/E and N/Q/R at 53rd and 7th
1/2/3 and A/C/E at 7th Ave South and Greenwich Ave
N/R/W and F at 59th and 6th
R/W and B/D/F/V at Houston and Broadway
F and 4/5/6 at 63rd and Lex (Metrocard transfer available, admittedly)
G and J/M/Z on Broadway in Brooklyn
The A/C and F cross the 2/3/4/5 in downtown Brooklyn with no connection
The often-discussed 3 and L at Junius and Livonia
And of course the ones the MTA is actually thinking about:
B/D/F/V and 6 at Bleecker and Houston
R and A/C/F at Lawrence and Jay
This connection has some use for make a trip a little easier. Again, the connection would serve people using the White Plains Line and the IND North Bound.
I know that I will not convince all.
This construction will cost x amount of money. How many man hours a year will it save?
Arti
But thanks for engaging the point, Arti....
As 7th Av parallels both 6th and 8th Avs, why would anyone transfer at all?
Arti
I agree that Harlem is underserved. Your idea is cool. And the SAS is important in getting additional service up to your neck of the woods.
I was told that there would be a lot of sarcasm on the Subtalk...
:-) Andrew
There are two main reasons for this. First, most passengers from north of 103rd are traveling to points south of 59th, where a transfer between the two systems already exists. I realize that some SubTalker is going to jump up and say, "Wait a minute! I would use that transfer every day." But almost any conceivable transfer would be used by somebody. The question is whether enough would use it to justify the expense.
The other factor is that, between 59th and 103rd, the IND and IRT stations aren't all that far apart. Even if the transfer existed, in many cases you'd get to your destination faster by just taking one train, and walking to/from the closest station.
The same applies between Downtown and 59th Street.
Arti
The same applies between Downtown and 59th Street.
But, after 59th St, half of the IND trains turn eastbound.
If you are going east, you'd take 5 instead of 2.
Arti
Then you are most likely to live nowhere near 2 to benefit from a transfer at 103rd street.
Arti
Wait a second, what trains head east? 6th Av is a block away from 7th as is 8th.
Arti
59th/Lex and Canal St on the (6) are both busier stations than Columbus Circle, and they weren't re-built either.
I don't think the phrase NIMBY existed at the time the transfer at Columbus Circle was built, but it would have been very complicated to rebuild the station as an express stop, and most likely the line would have had to be taken out of service for a significant period of time. Some things just aren't worth re-doing, even if they would have been built differently in hindsight.
And of course, it undermines the value of express service if you start converting a whole bunch of local stations.
Of course, the other sad thing is that the IND was built to compete with the IRT and the BMT, rather than to complement them. This is why in some areas the IND is almost right on top of an IRT or BMT line, but in other parts of the city there's poor service or no subway service at all. There are a number of other places where an IND crosses an IRT or BMT line, and where a transfer would have made sense, but none was built.
In past discussions, Stephen Bauman has pointed out that Central Park West was an almost idiotic place to put a subway line, given that the IRT was so close by, and that the CPW line could attract customers only from the west. I use that line frequently, so I'm not unhappy it's there. But pragmatically speaking, the IND should have built 2nd Avenue before it built CPW.
IMHO the same apples to 6th Av, especially express tracks.
Arti
Arti
No, but it should have built 2nd Ave before 6th Ave. The Broadway BMT and 6th Ave IND are basically redundant. Unfortunatly, the IND's plan was not meant to compliment the BMT and IRT.
They carry about 75 tph of relatively full, though not crush loaded, 600' trains in each direction in the rush hour. That's a lot more people than the Lex carries. So redundant might not be exactly the right word.
But I find even that hard to justify in terms of significantly improving existing options. If you are traveling from the east Bronx on the 2, you can change at 149/GC for the uptown 4 to the west Bronx. No need to go all the way to Lenox and walk two blocks to catch the D at 125.
If you want Washington Hgts, transfer for the 1 at 96 street, it closely parallels the A/C lines and has transfer at 168.
I doubt that would mean much, the transfer between the Franklin Ave Shuttle and the Fulton St Line is made at a local stop.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The L will have the best train cars and the most modern signal system (but it still has to prove itself. This system was successful in France; let's see what it does here).
Now they have to continue fixing up the stations!
If they really do all the things they say, including:
-- renovating all the stations that haven't yet been renovated;
-- installing computerized displays showing the time to the next train, and alerting riders of any delays or re-routes;
-- running more trains at shorter headways during rush hours;
...then I think the L might legitimately be called the best line in the city.
correct me if I'm wrong, but that's also the life expectancy of the cueent signal systems as well, right?
It's tough to get BetaMAX tapes today, isn't it?
Driving north on the FDR, there is some massive construction occuring; it involves driving large steel pillar into the river bed on which rests a roadway... Anyone?
Curious,
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
http://www.uer.ca/locations/galpics/norm/12862.jpg
They probably didn't see the need considering they have all that storage to the West of Sheppard-Yonge and since there isn't any special changes in service throughout the day (always 4 trains of 4 cars each) they probably just decided to save some money.
Finally some TTC on this wonderful board ;-)
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Matthew Mummert
The Scarborough RT has an out of commission loop at Kennedy and at McCowan the tracks lead directly into the yard.
Just for some more random factoids, at Don Mills the blind trips in the station are always up (I guess the TTC doesn't feel comfortable about having that wall present :) ) so all trains crrrrrrawl in, and at the rest of the terminals they are only up when a train is occupying that respective track.
I'm at Kennedy any time I ride the subway so I know the tail tracks curve slightly to the North so it's a bit hard to see the end of them... It's possible though if you get into a proper position.
Eurotunnel, created in 1987, runs the transport link under the Channel. It has incurred 9 billion euros of debt, as construction costs exceeded estimates and revenues fell short. Initially the French government encouraged citizens to buy shares, but the stock has become almost worthless. British and French governments have denied the possibility of public money for the company. The rebel shareholders' campaign is led by failed presidential candidate Nicolas Miguet.
"The financial framework and operating conditions for the Channel Tunnel were flawed from the outset. Britain’s Thatcher government was determined that not one penny of public money should be used to construct the tunnel. The French government agreed to this, and the project went ahead with private funding. The cost of the project soared during construction to reach £10 billion, but Eurotunnel managed to keep its financial backers on board. "
"Although the traffic forecasts were wildly optimistic, British Rail and French National Railways, which would operate the through passenger (Eurostar) and freight services, were forced to agree to pay for 50% of the Channel Tunnel’s capacity until November 2006. In effect this was a subsidy to Eurotunnel. There was an assumption that the Channel Tunnel would put the cross-Channel ferry operators out of business, which it has not. The through railfreight services have performed very badly through poor marketing, lack of management attention, and, more recently, 14 months of disruption by asylum seekers. Traffic increased last year by 22% to 1.78 million tonnes, but this is a tiny share of freight traffic moving between Britain and continental Europe."
Bit of background on the man - he's a convicted fraudster and the founder and self-styled leader of the French Taxpayers' Party.
That is quite a profound statement :)
To his defense, I guess the media usually does pick pretty dumb transit related quotes to place in the paper.
Considering the person who made that quote, his statement doesn't surprise me one bit.
I guess he's not too fond of his L either.
Question; What would the area now called "New York City" be like if the consolidation of 1898 had never taken place- no Brooklyn, Queens (With or without today's Nassau), Staten Island or today's Bronx? This would mean today we have 5 cities today.
Do you think subways would still connect the separate "boroughs" like PATH, PATCO or other such "subway" lines. Would the BRT ever touch Park Row in Manhattan or end at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge? Would the LIRR serve Manhattan as well or just Brooklyn,Queens, etc. (As we know, Long Island DOES include Brooklyn and Queens since they share the same island at Nassau and Suffolk counties today.). What about the IRT, and would this have an influence on the IND's mission to replace the competing els?
Would the Pennsylvania Railroad have served Brooklyn as well since they owned the LIRR ? How would the Pennsylvania Railroad have reached Brooklyn?
You ideas are welcome. Thank you!
group:soc.history.what-if
One of those sites where you could spent hours reading...
Of course, rapid transit existed before the consolidation in the form of elevated rail lines. The private companies that ran them might have eventually been absrobed into a regional agency, just as they were in reality merged into MTA.
Mark
And what does the PRR have to do with anything? Why would their actions be any different if the occupation never started?
Unfortunately, that site doesn't give many details about the various incorporated villages.
Much of what is now the Bronx was incorporated into New York City in 1874.
Chuck
Phil Hom
Stafford VA
Mark
I GENUFLECT in honor of the repaint of number 6 ("I am *NOT* a number, I am a PCC!") for it conveyed what it looked like in its prototypical NATURAL state ... "old fossils" need to be considered in their time period of bliss. Like anyone who has memories of an earlier time, it may not have been better, may not have been worse, but all of us eventually pick a point in time where we say to ourselves, "THAT was kewl ... everything SINCE then sucks." Hell, that's what makes SUBTALK great in its frequent moments despite the noise ... so MANY of us here blew our motor breakers at different times, and the data stopped rolling in the black box, sorta frozen in time of "AAAAHHHHhhhh ... k3wl. MY stop!" Just LOVE all the different angles though - 1980 or so being when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Heh. I'm just loving this all ... and we've got 11 year olds and such getting into all this as well ... I think this is GREAT! :)
But the old Public Service "army? navy? air force? marines?" paint scheme (which lasted INCREDIBLY long - a true WARTIME BREAKFAST! [as displayed advertising on the bulkhead of one of the wrecked Malbone cars that made it into the newspapers by BRIBE according to some journalistic curmudgeons I know]) and was MOST reflective of the general "duration" historically ... pretty snazzy considering the WWII mentality that chose the "design" ... :-\
For a boy that grew up in the Bronx, I *knew* what a SUBWAY was ... first time I took PATH all the way out to Newark as a kid (my parents woulda been PYTHED!!! had they known) I was *stunned* to see a sign there that said "TO SUBWAY" in PATH Penn ... and DAMN! I paid a fare, went down to a DAMNED low platform and saw RAILS! Woohoo! (grin)
So I sit and rot, other people milling about, more joining and then I hear the echo of an ARNINE!!! Groans and clanking of the railjoints and then the reflection of HEADLIGHT! (Oh chit! JUST ONE headlight! And in the MIDDLE of the STORM DOOR!) ... then around the curve it came and it was a DAMNED BUS with ONE headlight! :(
But it ran on RAILS, it was WEIRD ... and I mean RAILS ... like a NYC SUBWAY ... not the old trolley track exposed by "wasted asphalt" that revealed those weird steel ribbons that were NOT like subway track, move like V-shapes left in the exposed cobblestones. Like I said, my first experience with the PCC's, the subway that WASN'T a subway and yet it WAS - surface-running like the Canarsie line, GATE CROSSINGS, the line was a very very serious transit thing and yet it was CHARMING ... even MORE so with the PCC's in their original warpaint.
Just wanted to explain the philosophy behind my opinion. Frozen in MY mind was the ORIGINAL colors. As such, they're important because of the LONG period of time for which THAT was the standard. I also concede that folks rememer the IRT chariots to have always been red with a silver roof even if that was NOT the color they spent the majority of their lives as. I even forgive BRANFORD for painting up 6688 in "redbird lingerie" even though she was "subway green" for more years than red. But yeah, I'll grant you if there's multiples to be displayed, that's cool. But sadly, "museums" are hard pressed to be able to finance taking in just *ONE* ... I guess we have to take what we get. SCWOO Noah, HE had a budget. :)
Mark
PITY what it requires though to make history SURVIVE vs. what it costs to DO so. :(
Mark
Thanks!
-Mark
Mark
1]SEPTA "Gulf Oil" scheme - best on the all-electrics.
2]Pittsburgh's "Mod" colors of the 70's
3] SEPTA "Bicententennial" scheme on the ex KC cars
and last but not least,
4]MBTA Green Line car paint scheme [Green and White]
: (
Markj
Mark
Mark
Mark
I've only seen about six B/W photos of this car, mostly the forward RH 3/4 view.
I've only seen about six B/W photos of this car, mostly the forward RH 3/4 view.
You won't see this PCC wearing this paint job ever again - it goes against everything trolley museum foamers stand for: everything maroon and cream, nothing but maroon and cream, only maroon and cream, exclusively maroon and cream, any colours you want as long as they're maroon and cream, maroon and cream forever.
Boooooooring!
-Robert King
Down there, all they do is green and cream. It's the same as maroon and cream is up here. Fortunately, there are a few PCCs in the GOH paint job in museums although I know of one that's planning on repainting theirs in...get ready for the big surprise...green and cream. If anything, someone should do a 'Gulf Oil', since there are none of those while there are green and creams and GOHs around.
-Robert King
-Robert King
VERY snazzy color scheme though even if the colors are rather "Military" ...
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
P.S.: Note to Bombardier: I am not asking this by E-Mail because I would think that maybe some SubTalkers here also know, and I am also in New Jersey, not New York.
So, does anyone know how old the site is? TIA.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
My name's Matt. I'm a metrophile from Montreal (http://www.metrodemontreal.com/ is my website) and a translation student. For a course in documentation and terminology, I'm hunting for terms relating to subway systems. I wrote to the webmaster here, and he suggested I post my question to this board.
For the purposes of my present assignment, I'm trying to find a source or sources that provide a definition any of the following terms (or synonyms thereof).
1) Connecting tracks (non-revenue tracks that allow trains to pass between two different lines. Not a switch track. e.g. in Montreal, around our transfer stations, we have single-width tracks allowing trains to pass between the otherwise separate lines.)
2) Ventilation shaft (serving a subway tunnel or station)
3) Tail tracks (tracks beyond a terminus station, possibly containing a switch allowing trains to change directions, or garage space)
4) Yard/depot (place where trains are stored when not in service)
5) Shop (place for major or minor maintenance of trains)
(I give these quick definitions since these might not be the correct terms; as the Montreal metro is my first love, I'm most accustomed to discussing these facilities in French.)
If any of you happened to own a glossary or lexicon with definitions of these terms, would it be possible to quote for me the definitions given, and provide the citation?
I realize this request is rather unusual, but I do hope you can help me with this.
Thanks very much for any help!
Matt
* ryan
* ryan
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Ahh... they're teaching you how to research :-) I remember those days, when I was a grad student and dinosaurs roamed the earth... failure to accurately cite references has been the downfall of many a grad student, and a few professors as well. I could tell you a very interesting story about a historian and the grad student who taught him, and his editor, a lesson along that line... if you're interested, drop me an email.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Agreed. Footnotes, when checked against their source, can also show when citations are taken out of context or are outright falsified.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
You can....
Know your lineup
DING
Know your Northeast Corridor Interlocking Towers
DING
Know your SubTalk Troublemaker American Pig
DING
Know your Shocking Facts About SEPTA
DING
Know your Single Street Intersections in NYC
DING
The first person to choose a category will have a question asked in that category which anyone on Subtalk can answer. The second person to choose one of the 4 remaining categories will have a question asked in that category which anyone on Subtalk can answer.
The first Subtalker to answer each question will WIN BIG*. Note, one Subtalker can only WIN BIG* on one question.
So....WHO WANT'S TO PLAY KNOW YOUR LINEUP??!!
*BIG is a relitive adjetive.
What are the 2 important characteristics of a typical numbered crosstown street in Manhattan. Note there is a minor exception to some, but it applies to 95% of all streets I am talking about.
This was established in 1924 below 59th Street, and 1927 from 60-110.
What are the 2 important characteristics of a typical numbered crosstown street in Manhattan. Note there is a minor exception to some, but it applies to 95% of all streets I am talking about.
Which street intersects with itself on the waterfront off the Jamaica Bay?
That wasn't what we were looking for, but the judge says yes. You will be immortalized in the upcomming Knoew Your Lineup Winners page at boarshevik.com
What street in Baltimore intersects with itself?
Know your SubTalk Troublemaker American Pig, please.
Sorry, wrong answer.
Even number is on the south side while an odd number is on the north side of the street.
So 238 East XX Street would be on the south side, while 237 is on the north. This does not work on north-south avenues though!
Don't you mean to say YAHD speed? ;-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
My name's Matt. I'm a metrophile from Montreal (http://www.metrodemontreal.com/ is my website) and a translation student. For a course in documentation and terminology, I'm hunting for terms relating to subway systems. I wrote to the webmaster here, and he suggested I post my question to this board.
For the purposes of my present assignment, I'm trying to find a source or sources that provide a definition any of the following terms (or synonyms thereof).
1) Connecting tracks (non-revenue tracks that allow trains to pass between two different lines. Not a switch track. e.g. in Montreal, around our transfer stations, we have single-width tracks allowing trains to pass between the otherwise separate lines.)
2) Ventilation shaft (serving a subway tunnel or station)
3) Tail tracks (tracks beyond a terminus station, possibly containing a switch allowing trains to change directions, or garage space)
4) Yard/depot (place where trains are stored when not in service)
5) Shop (place for major or minor maintenance of trains)
(I give these quick definitions since these might not be the correct terms; as the Montreal metro is my first love, I'm most accustomed to discussing these facilities in French.)
If any of you happened to own a glossary or lexicon with definitions of these terms, would it be possible to quote for me the definitions given, and provide the citation?
I realize this request is rather unusual, but I do hope you can help me with this.
Thanks very much for any help!
Matt
On this site, we see very stimulating photos of the ninth Avenue El in the norther stretches of Manhattan, (110 St. - Jerome Ave Connection) We see Putnam Bridge, the Viaduct, Suicide Curve, etc.
I have yet to see any photos of the terminus of the 2nd Ave el, or the bridge that carried the 3rd into Da Branx, neither the elevated right of way around 125th thru 129th., etc. None of thses structures have I seen other than on hand-drawn maps, also posted on this site. Have I overlooked these somewhere herein?
Can anyone direct me to such images?
Waaaaaaa! Waaaaah.... Noooooo!
Dammit... Dammit... Sonuvagun!
The color image shows the Thrid Ave bridge... Wow.
104th Street curve, New York, elevated railway
This post last item
Circa 1899
BUT I WAS SHOCKED TO SEE that one film is called the curve at 104th Street... THIS IS A COMPELETE MISTAKE. Correct me, but, there were no Manhattan El curves at any place on 104th street on any on the 3 el lines. Further more, upon review of the film, it is clear to this El fanatic, that said footage, ill-named 104th Curve IS INFACT, Suicide Curve at 110the street. The film shows the easterly turn from Columbus/9th Ave on to the sloping 110 St. then a turn north onto 8th Ave/Frederick Douglass... How do I know this? Firstly, I am an El. luncatic. Secondly, cause I know 110 th Street quite well where Suicide Curve was. I know the scenery and the Streets, which are, very much recogonizable in the footage from 1899... Some of the scenery has not changed at all.
-Jon
Chuck Greene
Nice ring to it huh?
We had our Trailer division plant, right off Exit 23 (Downingtown) of the Pa. Turnpike. In fact if you are ever traveling out that way, look for a brown building ( it used to be blue and said Thayco on it),
on the North side of the Pike next to a Car Sense dealer.
It's right near where I live, in Exton, Pa.
Chuck Greene
Many rail vehicles as well as the R32s were built there. Here are some:
R11 (1949)
RDCs (1950s)
SEPTA Market-Frankford M3s "Almond Joys"
LIRR M1 (1967-73)
Metro-North/CDOT M2 (1971-73)
NJT Arrow II (1974)
NJT Arrow III (1977-78)
Amtrak Metroliners & Amfleets
CTA 2200 (1969-70) & 2600 (1980-88)
Baltimore Metro cars (1984)
Miami Metrorail cars (1984)
LIRR/Metro-North M3 (1985-86)
Portuguese railway DMUs (1989)
PRR (now SEPTA) Silverliner II (1963)
Reading (now SEPTA) Silverliner II (1963)
I want to add only that Budd either already has or is in the process of shutting down its last Philadelphia facility. It is now exclusively an automobile parts maker and is relocating to Michigan to be closer to its customers.
Pic 1:
www.uer.ca/locations/viewgal.asp?picid=12900
Question: what is that blue aspect at the far bottom of the signal mean? note that this is a toronto signal, but NY and TO use the same signals.
Pic 2:
or if it doesnt work, go to the random picture box on nycsubway, click it, and replace the numerical value with 3446
Question: what are the extra 2 lights for?
Pic 3:
Due to gateway timeouts, this pic from 225 st on the 1/9 cannot be posted from railfanwindow.com, it is on page 2 of the stations subdirectory. It will be posted when applicable
Vague discription: Much like the signal in Pic 2, except for the fact that it only has 1 extra light
Question: what is that extra light for?
I am very curious, so I'm open to discussion.
Please answer,
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
(I knew someday the TTC Rulebook would come in handy)
Pic #2 - Since I haven't been there in years.. the two additional aspects in the middle are some combination of "Illuminated S", "Illuminated D" and/or "Illuminated ##"
Pic #3 - If it's the picture I think it is, the extra middle aspect is an "Illuminated D"
Til' next time,
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen (and his little evil troll brother),
< 5 > NereidFlatbush
A solid yellow is a manual call-on, the operator has to activate that plunger for the trip arm to go down. (you can see it on the platform attached to that pole across from the signal)
Operators are suppose to go slow and check the positions of any switch they come across when doing a call-on.
A flashing yellow is a automatic call-on, basically the same rules apply, just no need to operate the plunger, it goes down automatically.
The blue lens or filter tints the yellow light produced by
an incandescent bulb and gives the light the appearance of
moonlight, hence the name "lunar" white.
The purpose of this is to prevent another lamp, with a broken-out
color lens (e.g. the red lens) from being mis-read as a white.
The defective aspect will have a yellowish color that can be
distinguished from lunar white.
Still Curious,
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
I know they also give call-ons when a train is entering service areas (and only then sometimes...), and I'm assuming during any signal malfunctions, not that I have ever seen, or even heard of that on the TTC (we aren't really that complex).
If you want to see an automatic call-on just hang around the terminals (at Kennedy they seem to happen on almost every approach)... The signal that gives the automatic call-on is the one just before the double crossover, so it will literally bring you right up to it.
I assume they don't use a Y-G since that really wouldn't show the operator the urgency of the situation (eg.. the potential of a switch being set wrong, train occupying the track, etc). Passing a signal under double red or operating a plunger certainly would remind them to take it easy so to speak.
Hopefully someone knows exactly and can kindly tell us, or I'll try finding out some more info later if I'm able too.
Hope this helps,
Ryan
"Note that although a call-on is usually given when the signal's control length (the track ahead of the signal) is occupied, the tower operator can force a call-on when the control length is vacant by operating the call-on button before the route is complete. But for this, the normal "high signal" (fully clear) aspect would appear as usual instead of the desired call-on aspect. This is sometimes done when the track circuits at an interlocking are operating erratically. See Interlocking."
Am I reading something wrong there? When giving a call-on with the next circuit unoccupied, a callon still displays as R/R/Y.
I am not sure that you can display a call-on into an interlocking where the route is set against the train. This is highly unsafe and I believe that a train would need permission past the stop signal with the trip tied down. (The provided link confirms this) However, the train should look for out-of-alignment points that might not have tripped the interlocking's logic.
The call-on is basically a rider around the slotting conditions
(track occupancy in the established route) in the home network.
Ok Alex, here's another for ya. At Rockaway Blvd S/B H.S. 10 looks like that but the middle mast with two aspects have a red and yellow aspect. Haven't found a T/O that can tell me what those two are for.
YES I FINALLY GOT IT! BEERS ALL AROUND! TIS A FINE MOMENT FOR ME!!AHAHAH! FIRST SUCCESFUL PIC POSTED!!!! uhhh, id post the first one, but when I previewed it, I got a 'dont steal our bandwith poster' so what can I do?
What is an Illuminated S?
What is an Illuminated D?
Very happy right now!
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
I did it again!! Pass around the Ribs!!
Listed are the famous Newkirk Images NYCTA Subway calendars from 1993 to 2003.
Also the Long Island Sunrise Trail Chapter NRHS LIRR calendars from 1987 to 2003.
And finally a couple Railroad Museum of Long Island issues, 1999 and 2000.
To find these items at EBay expeditiously, search by my seller name:
sjh50
Thanks!!
And no, I am NOT going to pass around individual scans.
Then there are the TARS B cars, which you clearly know about. For those who don't, it's the modern M104.
About a year ago, I inquired (on SubTalk) about an enlarged photo of Times Square in my local Wall Street Deli that depicts conduit track on Broadway in the 7th Avenue alignment in front of the Astor Hotel with the offset conduit slot. I was curious about the offset, and my query resulted in a number of informative responses. Your post now suggests there were two conduits, which finally explains, I think, the offset.
I've also seen pictures of 125th Street with dual conduits.
He has pre-orders for the set in question, inquired about it at MTH, and was told that they have not arrived as yet.
I asked him how the set could be offered for sale on eBay, and he speculated that the eBay seller would promise the buyer to ship just as soon as they arrived.
I did not know that eBay sellers could auction items that they did not have on hand.
I don't really care personally, since I do not have a set on order, but does anyone else have any thoughts on this confusion.
1) How do you make scrolling texts?
2) How do you change font colors?
3) How do you enlarge the font?
4) How do you make the text bold?
5) How do you italicize the text?
TIA.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
If you ever want to know what somebody is doing, just go "View Source" and you'll see the text as that person entered it. That's where all your questions would be answered if you wished to take the initiative in learning basic messageboard HTML.
A few questions:
1) How do you make scrolling texts?
2) How do you change font colors?
3) How do you enlarge the font?
4) How do you make the text bold?
5) How do you italicize the text?
TIA.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Click here
Click here
I'll show you #2, #4 & #5, the link and the underline, the rest and other codes you could learn for yourself. I'm showing codes that are essential.
I just changed the font color → <*font color=green>Text<*/font>
This is in bold → <*b>bold<*/b>
This is in italic → <*i>italic<*/i>
This is in underline → <*u>underline<*/u>
nycsubway.org → <*a href=nycsubway.org>TYPE ANY TEXT HERE<*/A>
*=Type in the codes just as I have them but do NOT include the asterisk in the tags or they won't work. Good luck.
< a href="http://www.nycsubway.org" >nycsubway.org < /a >
directions:
"up"
"left"
"right"
"down"
behaviors:
"alternate"
"slide"
scrollamount: enter a number
the higher the number, the faster it scrolls
Peace,
ANDEE
The inductive loop system places transponders every say 200 feet. Cars ride over them and comm two way. The system recognises the cars and their positions. The system interrogates the cars...the cars automatically report everything that TOD displays along with what we can call up on 'maintaince screen.' Understand it takes but a few microseconds to comm information...microwave transponders are like RADAR: they have to continuously send out an interrogation call and listen for a message to be received. There is no 'triangulation' invoveld. Your cell phone constantly sends out an interrogation call...WE know WHERE you are. One anecdote: microwave ovens are not frequency stable and operate in the same frequency range. If a CTA re-heats MacDonalds
in the shack when a trainset passes by, comm can be lost. Trainset pops off-screen for a MacBurger. CI Peter is WB2SGT Extra Class
Actually it's the opposite, HF devices are MADE to vary the frequency to reduce the interference. That's the spread spectrum setting in you computer BIOS.
Arti
And that's a good thing. My point was that the anecdote can't be true.
_Few microwave transponders are spread spectrum...object is point to point comm and even fewer Part 15 devices use it (exception: cordless phones.)_
I hope I understood you correctly. Another "exeption" using spread spectrum in that band is WiFi and that's what MTA is planning to use for CBTC.
Arti
The FCC? Heh. Good one. You and I are old enough to remember when they were feared. About the only thing they regulate anymore (beyond Stern) is the thermostat in their office.
Spread specturm is a wonderful technology for getting around
channel interference. People think it is invincible because
the military uses it to avoid jamming. I have another radio
term to counter that: FRONT END OVERLOAD!
I'll be OTJ & Selkirk know that term well :)
No matter how sophisticated the signal processing is, a strong
enough RF signal which gets past the front-end passive filter
network will drive the RF amp into overload. In a way, spread-
spectrum is even more susceptible to this because the input
filters have to be fairly broad.
In military applications, you'd have to be able to deliver RF
power to the unit being jammed that is 60-100 dB stronger than
the signal. That means being very close. So, spread-spectrum is
a win because it is much harder to jam it.
It must be another urban legend. At least my microwave has no effect on my WiFi equipment.
«I have another radio
term to counter that: FRONT END OVERLOAD!»
As with microwave I can't envision conditions in the subway, what could possibly cause that.
Arti
How close did you have the microwave oven to your 802.11
antenna?
Another thing to consider is that microwave oven leakage varies
with model and condition. If the shielding of the glass gets
disconnected, a lot of RF will get out, and not all models may
be able to detect that and shut down.
Front end overload is a WONDERFUL little experience, especially when the front end itself breaks into its OWN oscillations as a result. but in military applications, there's a few other ways to win including adaptive filtering ahead of the actives so that in theory an interfering carrier can get squished down a little bit to attempt to avoid the overload condition.
GOOD spread spectrum is VERY wide, so much so that the signal disappears into the background noise and has sufficient error correction that a large amount of the signal can be destroyed and yet still recovered. This requires a VERY low bitrate to be successful. I won't go into further detail publicly but MIL gear is able to do remarkable things in the presence of countermeasures. I *doubt* MTA has that kind of budget and I doubt the specifications are out among vendors who make trains. When I see a Loral box or a Hughes box in the multiplexer cabinet, I'll digress. :)
But I'd be a LOT more concerned about an enterprising yoot with a WiFi box and linear connected to a LAPTOP. I can't BELIEVE they're going the RF route here - I'd be more impressed with a rehash of IDENTRA if not something better. Such short wavelengths should be highly amusing when things are tuned up in winter and then it gets warm and muggy down there. Heh.
TA was worried about physical wear and tear on the loop down in the roadbed - one of the reasons they went with RF.
heterodyne-o-phobe?
Jess wondrin'
AEM7
The Keystones are already a PennDoT service as are the Albany trains an NYDoT service. The new turbos are even equipped with State of NY Seals. However, the last thing Amtrak would want is a seperate equipment pool mucking up it's maintainence programme. Unless PennDoT springs for a new maintainence facility like CDoT did Amtrak will probably prefer to just use it's inhouse diesels and Amfleets. Moreover, it is what the passengers on this long haul commuter routes have come to expect.
The new coaches that Herr Railnut posted are the MNRR bought Comet V's for NJT west of hudson service. They have nothing to do with Amtrak.
Does "sitting" really cause a train to get flat wheels?
The Keystones are already a PennDoT service as are the Albany trains an NYDoT service.
Did you ever look at the extent of subsidy (by PennDOT and NYSDOT) on those trains? Amtrak still loses money on them. They do not deserve to be called PennDOT and NYSDOT trains. They are Amtrak trains that PennDOT and NYSDOT happen to pay a token amount every year for (although, NYSDOT has bought the Turbo sets and that's better than what PennDOT has come up with).
However, the last thing Amtrak would want is a seperate equipment pool mucking up it's maintainence programme. Moreover, it is what the passengers on this long haul commuter routes have come to expect.
There is a shortage of Amfleets on other services -- although it is not a severe shortage as yet. I think Amtrak needs to ask for equipment before it becomes a real issue. New equipment could be built to Amfleet standards; just paid for by the DOTs.
Re the wheel thing I think the flagman on the Clocker said that, it's a nice expression.
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Were there any problems with your train? There seemed to be some problems with the one I rode...it kept stopping, the ac cut out in the tunnel, and whatnot. The lights cut out too.
Pretty cool riding them on the red though. Took it yesterday to Grosvenor, then it went ot Shady Grove yard I guess.
So, anyone want to speculate on just what exactly is happening on 2006?
Clockers were originally started by the PRR as an hourly passenger service between Philly and NYC (maybe even DC, I forget). Their hourly timing give them the name Clocker.
Currently Clockers are times on a 90 mph schedule due to their great weight. They used to be hauled by the late E60's.
The Clockers are in the NJT NEC timetable with a capital A next to the train number. The "A" indicates that it's an Amtrak train that accepts NJT weekly and monthly commuter tickets.
Jersey Mike explained the name in an earlier post: the PRR ran commuter service between Philly and NY that left on the hour: 6 o'clock, 7 o'clock, etc.; hence the name (I ride the 8 o'clocker).
-Chris
-Chris
No, but that 1 bloke in this video soooooooooo deserved to get Punk'D.
HAD he been struck, the camera was in NO POSITION no catch it, anyhow...
you can see a pillar on the far right of the screen, so had he been flung
sidewards, the camera wouldn't have caught his (gleeful) voyage south.
Bill "Newkirk"
WASHINGTON -- Investigators are trying to find out what happened at the Dupont Circle Metro station Wednesday night that caused a passenger to end up in the hospital.
Operations Director Lem Proctor says the incident started around 10:45 p.m. on a Glenmont-bound red line train. The operator got a signal that the train doors were obstructed, which is a safety feature to determine if a rider is stuck.
Shortly thereafter, the obstruction signal cleared and the train began moving. The operator continued to look back to see that everything was okay when he noticed a woman near the rear of the train.
"He saw her fall so he stopped the train," Proctor said. "She started moving with the train to remove her sleeve, she fell to her knee, then she fell and hit her face."
She has been released from George Washington Hospital.
Procter says it takes a 3/8 of an inch gap in a door to trigger the anti-dragging mechanism.
The investigation is on-going.
I have no idea what a C/R is. What I can tell you is WMATA has only one person in the cab that controls all functions of the operation of a train.
What puzzles me is why the operator did not first look down the length of the train when he did not get an all door closed signal on the console. He would have seen the woman with here sleeve caught in the door before the all doors single was displayed on the console and could have held the train and reset the doors to allow her to get her coat out of the door.
John
Would anyone here on this board advocate for a thinner trigger (like, say, 1/4 inch triggering a guard light and locking the brakes)?
LOL
Here are some photos from the opening reception.
There's lots of great stuff there. Don't miss it. It's at the UBS Art Gallery, 1285 Sixth Avenue, M-F 8-6 through June 18, 2004, and it's free.
I might add... no 76 St!
The last Bronxbound 6 Express leaves BBridge around 7:30pm or so.
-WHAT'S THE REASONING- behind the 7 Express running till later than the 6 Express?
1BronxPeep9
Aaaand just last pick the 6 Exp got --CUT BACK-- an hour or so....
After 8pm I can get a seat on the 7 Local OR Express.
After 8pm, the 6 is still packed like a Kool-D tuna can!
Last <6>
Leaves Brooklyn Bridge at 8:19pm
Leaves 125th Street at 8:47pm
Leaves 3 Avenue-138th Street at 8:50pm
Last <7>
Leaves Times Square at 10:07pm
Leaves Grand Central 42nd Street at 10:10pm
Leaves Queensboro Plaza at 10:19pm
Logical.... even by MTA standards.
-BUT-
What justifies the 7 running till later than the 6??
Come to think of it....... how late does the 5 Bronx Express operate?
Well, it might just benefit the fare-paying Customers if the TA Expresses
were run E-Q-U-A-LL-Y up until a MUTUAL time.
You're serving a whole CITY... not just a savored stadium.
1PelhamPlaya9
So YTF is the 7 an exception?? I'd even wager that the expresses
after 8pm on the 7 aren't even HALF packed...
Main Street on the 7 is an immensely busy station -- at the end of the line, best served by an express. Pelham Bay Park isn't nearly so busy.
Fare-paying customers are best served if NYCT runs the service that the ridership demands, no more and no less. That varies from line to line.
I'm 1 for the belief that the 6 ridership demands more Expresses.
(whynot cut the 7 Express out after gametime?)
Feedback@mta.info
info@mta.info
ALL DIDNT WORK
Were Mystical Chicks involved??
Until 1999/2000, when 7 Express service was extened to 10 PM, service ended at approx. mid-evening (7-8 PM).
The last #<5> Express Train leave 149st/3rd Av @ 7:43pm to E180th Street for 8 minutes ride & the next local #5 train come around 7:50pm for 12 minutes ride to E180th Street.
DNJ
Is there an email address to pose my original querie to?
I'd still like to know the MTA REASONING behind the 7 being a lateowl.
(Yes, there was a demand... Yea, the Mets are worth rushing to...
but why do the 7 Exp come floozy empty whereas the 6 is still PACKED after 8pm)
1ExpressBenefits9
David
DAMN.
In 2000, that 149-180 Local ride felt HELLLLLLLLLLA longer.
In this given instance, I'd win your $$$.
If I didn't care about the 6 Bronx Express, I wont'a have started this thread.
1B'Le Dat, PlaYa!9
About the express being slow: yes, it is slower since resignalling. Before, trains used to stop at only two/three one-shot timers (both directions) and then be one their way, both being in the Cypress - 143rd Street area. Then all of the two shot GTs were put in, with some being set to slow speeds. Case in point: n'bound south of 149th Street. That one was set to 35 MPH, but after a downpour (or some other phenomena) T/Os needed to slow down to almost 25 MPH through the station to clear the next GT, and by the time they could get some speed, they are already past Longwood and entering the GTs south of Hunts Point.
For enthusiasts, it's a pain. But as a passenger on a Parkchester local at 143rd, 149th, or Longwood, there is little difference as the express comes by and one gets the feeling that the local they are one will not catch it by Hunts Point (adding up to a time disavantage as the elevated runs are way faster since resignalling).
Thanks for the reply-- that's the most logical 1 I've yet to hear. :)
And the brochure:
http://www.wmata.com/about/expansion/takeoneforweb.pdf
I hope that the ounce of faith I have in WMATA will not be depleted by shitty performance on the light rail shuttles...hopefully they'll set an example for MTA MD on how to run rail bridge shuttles.
Glad to see WMATA is making progress.
As for the bus bridge, WMATA will likely provide service equal or better then when they setup bus bridges during unscheduled service disruptions. The importance of the bus bridge will be less because the area can be bypassed using the Green line between Fort Totten (B06, E06) and Gallery Place (B01, F01).
John
Da Hui
There was a weekend GO back the end of February on the Red Line here that required single-tracking between Dupont and Union Station. For most of the weekend, all service at Dupont was on the Shady Grove-bound platform. The escalators to the Glenmont platform were turned off, lots of yellow caution tape across them, there were signs at the escalators directing passengers to the other side for all trains, and there were announcements every 2 or 3 minutes advising riders of what to do. Regardless, people were going under the tape to get to the Glenmont platform. Even when station personnel went down and told them they have to go over to the other side, these folks would argue that they shouldn't have to go to the Shady Grove side because they are heading in the other direction. In the 20 minutes I was waiting for a train, at least 6 people cussed-out the station agent about the inconvenience and total lack of information. Duh. It's a damn shame bitchslapping people for being completely stupid isn't socially acceptable.
Oh crap it isn't??! oops...
:0)
Listen via RealAudio or whatever RealAudio alternative you have
http://www.whyy.org/rameta/RT/2004/RT20040402_20.ram
Now they are back for a week with the grandchildren, and beginning tomorrow, they plan to ride the subway. Needless to say, this is quite a development. I'll be interested to see what they think of it when they get back this evening.
NYCT hasn't announced. They probably haven't even decided. That's why you are getting no responses.
Here's the link to mine, taken by John Villanueva over at SubwaySpot.com.
What's your favorite photo ever taken by the webmaster of a subway site?
P.S.: Praise to John Villanueva. Keep up the good work!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
You can be excused because of your youthful exhuberance but next time never praise a webmaster of another site without praising the photos of the webmaster of the site that you are posting on. It is plain rude.
Dave Pirmann happens to take excellent pictures (and has been doing it longer than John V).
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Taken by Trevor Logan. He did an excellent job of getting the whole train in, so I think this one actually beats John's (no offense, though, against John.). No, really, I think it does beat John's photo.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
http://images.nycsubway.org//i1000/img_1976.jpg
I always like photos at odd angles, there are tons that are straight on and level. You can almost see the whole train and the signals really don't interfere with the shot. I kinda like the spiffy silver colored signal casings as well.
til next time
Partial text from an email I received the other day. To protect the innocent parties, portions of the original text have been modified or removed:
At Shop Rite today I saw the PERFECT gift for you..................
A TUNA DRAINER...... which is apparently round so you remove the metal lid of your TUNA can
and place the drainer in (with it's vented slots) and press down on the TUNA allowing the oil and water and
hippo washing materials to ooze out the vents....... keeping the tuna in the can.
I smell a birthday present 4 ya...... : ) : ) :
Sounds like a great birthday present brah! Should work on rhinos too huh?
The thing LOOKS just like an ordinary SINK drainer, but it's flat
and round with vents for the porous window-washing substances within....
If I find 1 where the words "TUNA DRAINER" are clear and present
on the face (without markings near them), u b getting this 1 !!
SOME beakies ain't a line item. Hmmm.
UNTIL NEXT TIME :),
(4) WoodlawnBowling Green.
I was AFST (away from subtalk) at that point. However, I could never understand why lawsuits are necessary in any circumstances. There are always better ways to deal with things than lawsuit. Still, nobody has filled me in on what transpired, and I am very curious, since I really don't think racism is such a big deal to require lawsuits. If it really is such a big deal, I would be interested to see why it is such a big deal. Maybe it will be an education for me.
I was here for almost 18 months and I miss some of the people who left. They have a good reason why and it's sad.
Just ignore, if needed use the killfile. Don't respond to them.
That's exactly what I do if somebody is geting on my nerves. Personally, I think that this place is good if you are looking for information about trains in general. So far, I like comming here because it lets me say whatever I got to say on that particular subject.
Christopher... So there's a pre-heypaul and a post-heypaul era here at Subtalk and that the heypaul era marked the beginning of flame wars, cursing and racially motivated posts? I don't think I should be credited with all that. I brought to Subtalk a twisted sense of humor, which I enjoyed although some didn't. But I never developed a taste for the negative things that you ascribe to my era.
I've always been troubled by the intense seriousness that some railfans shroud themselves and their theories in. My "humor" was a reaction to that as well as an expression of who I am.
The flame wars, cursing and racially motivated posts were not an expression of who I was, but of who the Subtalkers,that were involved, were.
So in summary, if you want the old timers and experts and industry insiders to come back to or join SubTalk, then cut the crap and stick to business. And if you aren't the one starting the crap threads, then you can help stop them by NOT REPLYING to them AT ALL.
Of course, this is only my opinion and I'm not telling anyone what to do.
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Example: DefJef makes a post
someone responds, calling him a troll
someone responds to that person, telling them not to respond
someone else responds to the original responder, calling THEM a troll for responding
a flame war ensues between those two people
someone else argues with the last person saying that by their standards they are a troll themself for participating in the thread
more bickering back and forth
someone makes a post about the state of subtalk because of that thread
people argue over the state of subtalk
and it goes on...
and on...
and on...
Is it ever going to stop?
At least SB uses timetables, stats and formulas to back up his thoughts.
But I love reading his math explanations. I wish I had a lecturer like him in college. Maybe I wouldn't have had to work so hard in my math courses.
You are at the Bloustein School? That's where I got my graduate degree. If you think of it, tell Prof. J. Hughes that someone who took his housing market course thanks him for the fact that he didn't buy a house at the peak of the 1980s housing market bubble! And has tried to talk people out of buying houses now.
You did not listen on QP so why think you would get a meaninful reply on CPW. So you just declare victory and move on.
It is actually age appropriate behavior just like your previous posts talking like the 'senior man' of subtalk.
I remember when you first appeared, too. I'm glad to see you haven't changed.
Because they're only shutting down on weekends, and even then they never shut down more than a part of the line.
Maybe I just don't know what is involved in the whole process, and that's why it just sounds overly long to do to me.
A lot of people ride the L from Union Square to Lorimer, or even a lesser distance. It takes 10 minutes by train. Try doing that in 10 minutes with a bus!!! They forgot to build the 14th St bridge.
The idea is to be able to move more people at the same time.
Can you imagine what the NYC subway would be if all lines were local - especially in the rush hour?
To answer the original poster, how much time it saves depends on where you're riding from. My relatives live in Bay Ridge out at the end of the RR. If we ride that all the way into midtown it takes substantially longer than it does if we change to the N at 59th Street, now that the N is back on its proper route across the bridge.
(And yes, I know they now call it the "R," but it was the RR when I was a kid and we all still call it that.)
My father does that too as it was the RR when he was a C/R. Yet he does know it goes to CTL now. :\
Give me a break, there is never anything as bad as you describe it unless you get on a broken or delayed train every day.
He never said that a breakdown occurs every day, he said since some parts of the DC subway has shared trackage with two lines, it makes the delays worse, what are you talking about? What he said would basically be correct on a two track line. Also one note to 1995hoo, at the time they were building the DC subway, the deisgners didn't think that 4 track service would be needed so you can't fault them for that. Even though NYC may have some unreliable lines, local trains aren't as bad as some precieve it to be.
And if there's a lotta congestion on the local, you can pass three before even reaching Roosevelt.
Just a thought.
Da Hui
Try anywhere between 0-4mins!
A negative time savings isn't unusual ;-).
The 7th ave IRT saves more than 5 minutes.
The "A" Fulton/8th av express saves more than 10 minutes over it's local counterpart.
The Broadway expresses save almost 15 minutes over the locals.
Really?You think so?That depends if....IT EVER WANTS TO SHOW UP!Couple of weeks ago I rode the C from 155St-Euclid Av,I heard a A pass by SB just as my C entered the station.Between that time and the time we reached Nostrand Av,NOT ONE SINGLE A TRAIN PASSED US!!!So is the express still worth it?.......No I don't think so!
Da Hui
You are evidently not a regular "C" train rider. I've seen 4 "A" trains arrive in succession and still no "C" train in sight.
Every now and then, the "A" line will have delays. Every line will. But comparing "A" headways to the "C" makes you look like RonInBayside.
So is the express still worth it?.......No I don't think so!
We've been down this road before. 10 minutes is 10 minutes. If it doesn't mean anything to you, that's fine. But 10 minutes means something to me. I don't want to spend them waiting on my connecting train.
Da Hui
No. A/C headways are nowhere near the same. During the AM rush, the A runs 15tph one hour, 13 the next. For both of those hours the C only runs 8-7tph. That means that A trains come almost twice as often. In the PM rush, the A does the same thing.
Ask anyone, the A runs a LOT more often than the C. For you to suggest otherwise is laughable.
Weekday 2-3 min less waiting time for the A means absoultely nothing.
Time evidently means nothing to you. 15tph= 4 minutes between trains. So, let's assume that you missed both an A and a C train. The "A" will arrive 4 minutes before the next C train, AND, on top of that, will get there faster than the C. That's a potential time savings of 12-15 minutes you'd save.
As just a side note: I've seen plenty of times where 4 A trains have arrived and there's still been no "C" train. This is during the rush hour.
No. A/C headways are nowhere near the same. During the AM rush, the A runs 15tph one hour, 13 the next. For both of those hours the C only runs 8-7tph. That means that A trains come almost twice as often. In the PM rush, the A does the same thing.
Ask anyone, the A runs a LOT more often than the C. For you to suggest otherwise is laughable.
Weekday 2-3 min less waiting time for the A means absoultely nothing.
Time evidently means nothing to you. 15tph= 4 minutes between trains. So, let's assume that you missed both an A and a C train. The "A" will arrive 4 minutes before the next C train, AND, on top of that, will get there faster than the C. That's a potential time savings of 12-15 minutes you'd save.
As just a side note: I've seen plenty of times where 4 A trains have arrived and there's still been no "C" train. This is during the rush hour.
I've seen five A trains pass by once while waiting for a C train at Franklin Av.
The Broadway expresses save almost 15 minutes over the locals.
15 minutes????? I believe you're talking about the BMT Broadway in Manhattan and its unlikely but seeing the R and W [N on weekends] is unreliable, then 'shockingly' it is possible. Otherwise I would say its around 2-5 minutes.
From end to end, it's a 10-12 minute savings. So if you're going from 168 to Euclid, it would save you 10 minutes if you got on an A train leaving at the exact same time as the "C".
In fact the C could save time over the A whenever it experiences a gap in service, which is not uncommon.
I guess we're talking about 2 different things. I measure time savings by the amount of time saved if both trains leave the station at the same time. Taking the first train is often prudent in many situations, but it cannot be accurately used to reflect time savings.
I ride the A/C from 145th to Hoyt everyday (well, almost. Sometimes I take the B'way IRT at 137). It is a general rule that if I let a C train pass, the A train I take will overtake that C before Canal. Sometimes that means that the A train only saves 1 minute to Hoyt-schermerhorn. But when I transfer to a G train, if that A makes the connection, I save as much as 10 minutes.
Of course, an A train can get me to Hoyt 10 minutes ahead of a C train, and it takes my G so long to show up that time savings was moot. Either way, I like to be at Hoyt-schermerhorn as early as possible in order to catch the earliest possible G train.
15 minutes????? I believe you're talking about the BMT Broadway in Manhattan and its unlikely but seeing the R and W [N on weekends] is unreliable, then 'shockingly' it is possible. Otherwise I would say its around 2-5 minutes.
I'm counting between 42nd and DeKalb. It saves 8 minutes over the manhattan bridge alone.
And how often does that happen beside rush hour?
Oh, you gotta be more specific ;-). Seeing that you're talking about stations leaving at the same time, then most of the time the A will beat the C by a mile unless the D cuts in front of the A at 145 St, making the time savings go down but the A should still be able to beat that same C.
I'm counting between 42nd and DeKalb. It saves 8 minutes over the manhattan bridge alone.
Ok, now it makes sense.
And if the A doesn't make the connection, then the A hasn't saved you any time at all.
If, on average, the A saves you a minute over the C in getting to Hoyt (including time waiting for the A or C), and the G isn't timed to connect with either the A or the C, then, on average, the A will only save you a minute in the long run -- 10% of the time it'll save you 10 minutes but 90% of the time you'll just have to stand on the platform for an extra minute.
RonInBayside hijack your handle? I already mentioned that in my post.
If, on average, the A saves you a minute over the C in getting to Hoyt (including time waiting for the A or C), and the G isn't timed to connect with either the A or the C, then, on average, the A will only save you a minute in the long run -- 10% of the time it'll save you 10 minutes but 90% of the time you'll just have to stand on the platform for an extra minute.
But it saves 5 minutes over the "C" from 145th. Sometimes, I get an "A" train at 145th that leaves at the same time as a "C". I get to Hoyt, and then, 2 more A's come in. Then the G comes in, and as it's pulling out that "C" train is coming in.
When dealing with the "G", it makes sense to get there as soon as possible. The express does that. And It saves me time more than 10% of the time.
Hey, cut the insults!
But it saves 5 minutes over the "C" from 145th. Sometimes, I get an "A" train at 145th that leaves at the same time as a "C". I get to Hoyt, and then, 2 more A's come in. Then the G comes in, and as it's pulling out that "C" train is coming in.
In which case you've saved 10 minutes, assuming that's the headway on the G. But on those other occasions when the G comes a few seconds longer and connects with the C, you haven't saved any time. On average, assuming your numbers, you still save only 5 minutes.
When dealing with the "G", it makes sense to get there as soon as possible.
Obviously. The same goes for just about everyone else.
(Not everyone. I used to commute on the 6:45 Q from Times Square, which I transferred to from the 1/9. In general, I could reliably catch a 1/9 at 86 at 6:32 which would get me to Times Square on time, but occasionally it would run late, and I'd find myself at 72 without any remote chance of getting to Times Square on time on the local. Even though it takes less time on average to get from 72 to Times Square by staying on the local than by getting off and waiting for an express, in such a case I'd wait for the express. Chances are I'd still miss the 6:45 Q, but I was guaranteed to miss anyway it if I stayed on the local, and at least there was a chance I'd catch it if an express came soon enough. Of course, even this logic can backfire: the last time I tried it, the next train to come was another local, and by the time a 3 pulled in, I couldn't fit on the train.)
The express does that.
Depends on the circumstances -- how long the trip is, whether you're already on a local or you're going to a local stop, how long a wait it will be for the next express, etc. Knowing nothing else, it's probably faster to wait for an A at 145 than to take the C, although taking a D to 59 if it comes first might be worth considering. But if you know you've just missed an (off-peak) A, and a C pulls in right away, it will probably get you to Hoyt before the next A.
And It saves me time more than 10% of the time.
I was just going by your numbers.
Yeah, I know. But it seems that everytime i've taken a C train, I get screwed.
The other day, an A and a C train came into 145th at the same time, but the A train was lacking seats, and I wanted to sit and eat. I let both trains go, and then I cursed myself for not taking a seat on the C train, because the next A was taking too long to arrive. When I finally did get that A train, we caught up to the C train at 34th (which is weird. If you didn't catch up to a C at 42nd, you'll never usually catch it at 34th). There was something wrong on the 8th av local tracks, that resulted in us passing 3 E trains from W4th to Spring.
....just a side note.
Depends on the circumstances -- how long the trip is, whether you're already on a local or you're going to a local stop, how long a wait it will be for the next express, etc.
Yeah, like if I was going from 145th to 125th.
Knowing nothing else, it's probably faster to wait for an A at 145 than to take the C, although taking a D to 59 if it comes first might be worth considering.
If the D train was a brighton route, it would stop at DeKalb, where I could connect with the bus. You know what, I think that they made D trains skip DeKalb just to screw me.
But if you know you've just missed an (off-peak) A, and a C pulls in right away, it will probably get you to Hoyt before the next A.
Undoubtedly.
I was just going by your numbers.
I didn't understand your calculations. Could you explain them for me?
Of course, if you miss the G by a hair, and you know you would have caught it if you had taken the A instead of the C, it feels a lot worse than that.
How many people ride from Euclid to 168 length to see that kind of time savings? Most only make half the trip. So at best most people will only save 5 minutes (EUC-CHMB) to 7 minutes (168-CHMB).
UHH, yeah DARLENE, Whatever.
Peace,
ABDEE
http://mta.info/nyct/service/schemain.htm
Now I've done some riding and am aware of the following facts
Running the A express from Jay Street to Broadway Junction saves about 5 minutes over the C (I think there are something like 7 or 8 local stops in there)
Running the D express from 36 to Pacific saves about 2 minutes (I figured that out during the controversy regarding the D stopping at DeKalb when the B isn't running)
I suppose if you are taking the RR from 95th Street to mid town, you would save at most 12 minutes switching to the express (remember we also have to judge the bridge vs. the tunnel business)
Rail 'rolled over' before train derailed, engineer reveals
Mark
It became a 10 mph work zone *after* the derailment.
I had understood that the train was traveling much more slowly, but the event recorder will show it. Still if the tracks were rated at 79 mph, then that is what they were rated at.
I had thought that he was doing 78 before he got to this area, but perhaps not. 78 to 0 in 20 seconds is a VERY FAST stop for a train, even if it is on its side!
Elias
The section of track was on an elevated structure, so if it was intentional, the bi-level coaches would easily wind up in the drink as opposed to track on grade level. Further investigation may bear some fruit. Let's see how this pans out.
Bill "Newkirk"
Don't you think terrorists would have used a more effective strategy? Come on, they only killed one person. Not at all terrorizing.
Terrorists go for HOLLYWOOD NUMBERS ... that's the whole point! Every TV camera in NYC was watching when the ACTUAL terror weapon, the SECOND plane hit. :(
I was here doing some code that morning when I heard that "a plane has hit the north tower and there's a massive fire." Sure enough, every camera that could SEE it was ON it ... Bingbong at first thought that it must have been an accident whereas I knew RIGHT away. Only time that a plane MIGHT hit a building is in DEEP fog (like the Empire State Building crash, where the radio signals from the roof screwed up about the only navigation the pilot of the ill-fated plane THOUGHT he had) ... on a CLEAR day, planes don't hit buildings (unless they HAPPEN to fall there) ... minutes later, the SECOND hit was there for everybody to see. *THAT* was the TERRORIST ACT - up until THAT, most folks still thought it was an "accident," however mistakenly. :(
Bottom line, blowing up a railroad bed in the middle of cuzzinfick, Mississippi would be MEANINGLESS to terrorists. No CAMERAS to "capture the moment" there. No point to it. New Years celebrations are different (like LA for the "Millenium Attack" that was foiled by "President DoNothing") or any OTHER place where you can be sure that the moment of "special effects that kills" can be *SEEN* and played over and over again as part of CAMPAIGN ads. :(
Couldn't POSSIBLY be terrorism ... folks HAVE TO stop thinking in terms of TRUE wars with a "military strategy" ... taking out a section of rail for a MILITARY purpose would be to "cut the supply lines and isolate the enemy" ... TERRORISTS want to be SEEN and targets are SYMBOLIC ... intended to be SEEN and FEARED ... no cameras, no VALUE to the terrorists. And folks here in Albany actually BELIEVE that someone's going to take out Rocky's monument. The TV stations are all somewhere else - what would be the point?
And strangely, back when we could have been melted by the Russkies at ANY moment, where I live NOW would have gotten 12 nukes spread over a 24 mile radius ... TWELVE! Why? Watervliet arsenal, GE, National Lead (makers of depleted Uranium everything) and a bunch of military bases, rocket silos and supply depots. New York City wouldn't have had a mushroom cloud within 40 miles! Philosophy THERE was to leave it alone and burden "America" with trying to keep it from rioting and resupply it through broken lines in all directions. :-\
Amazing how so many otherwise intelligent folks JUST don't get it, and an even GREATER reason to wonder what kind of MORONS we have in office at all levels of politics in the "changed world" we live in. New York City was *NEVER* a target ... *NOW* it's "job number one" ... meanwhile, Keokuk gets the Homeland Security supplies. :(
This is why I have said that all this "Homeland Security" crap over the media 24/7 is totally counter-productive.
IF the Eff Bee Eye and the Counterintutive Agency get the "urgent bulletin/security alert" it goes only to the military and the police agencies. Not CNN, or any part of the media, and the notice should specificly state that.
"Loose Lips Sink Ships". Good in WWII, perfect for 2004 and on.
The "great unwashed" don't hear one damn peep until the event is over, done and reviewed. Then, and only then does the Media get the "news".
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Sources told the A.A correspondent on Sunday that a technical contract was signed with Japanese Taisei-Kumagai Fumi-Gama Industry consortium which submitted a bid of 89.7 billion Japanese yens in the tender for the project.
The contract was sent to Japan Bank for International Co-operation (JBIC), which will finance the project, for approval.
The ''turn-key delivery'' contract is expected to be signed this month.
Under the schedule of the project, construction of the system will start in June.
The project called ''Marmaray'' is envisaged to finish in 2008 and estimated to cost nearly 2 billion U.S. dollars.
Marmaray includes a 13.3 km Istanbul Strait crossing and the upgrade of 63 km of suburb line to create a 76.3 km high capacity line between Gebze and Halkali. The Istanbul Strait crossing will be done by a 1.8 km earthquake-proof immersed tube, assembled from 18 sections. This tube will be accessed by bored tunnels from Yenikapi on the European side and Sogutlucesme on the Asian side of Istanbul. Intermediate stations will be done at Sirkeci and Uskudar. An interchange station with Istanbul metro and light rail will be built at Yenikapi.
The upgrade of the suburb lines requires the laying of a third track along most of the way to increase the line capacity up to 75.000 passengers per hour in each direction. Signaling must also be modernized to allow 2 minutes headway service. The 41 stations along the line will be refurbished and the platform lengthened to 180 m.
Meanwhile, the loan negotiations for the second stage of the system will be held during Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's scheduled visit to Japan between April 10 and 14, 2004.
Thanks for posting that.
Mark
Thanks for posting that. This new train is long overdue.
The map at http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ist/istanbul.htm shows in black the two suburban lines that will be connected.
Just think of what a similar project in New York would cost, and how long it would take. Unbelieveable.
Since the economic reform trend is putting many unnecessary new constructions in Japan to a halt, I'm not surprised all those Japanese companies are jumping to the Turkish project that the BoJ is partially funding anyway.
The new tunnel is said to be a high-capacity suburban railway system, capable of carrying 150,000 passengers per hour.
The new line will connect the Sirkeci-Halkali line in Europe with the Gebze-Haydarpasa line in Asia.
The new 13.5 km tunnel will go from Yedikule to Sogutlucesme, with three intermediate stations.
"Orient-Express":
three times a week
(first time southbound second northboud train/ferry)
London Victoria d11:20 Tu,Th,Sa/a19:15 We,Fr,Su
Calais Harbour d15:05/a15:10
Paris Est d19:50/a11:00
Strasbourg d03:20/a03:24
Karlsruhe d05:33/a01:28
Stuttgart 07:12->07:18/23:48->00:00
Munich 10:54->11:10 We,Fr,Su/20:00->20:17 Tu,Th,Sa
Salzburg a13:10/a17:55
Wien West a18:27/d12:25
Budapest a23:50/d07:05
Arad a06:39/d00:24
Bukarest a18:30 Mo,Th,Sa/d12:20 Mo,We,Fr
"Simplon-Orient-Express":
daily except Nisch-Athen
London Victoria d11:20/a19:15
Calais Harbour d15:00/a15:25 (??? - see times of the first train)
Paris P.L.M. 18:58->20:50/08:22->11:05
Dijon d01:16/a03:36
Lausanne a05:56/d23:35
Brig a08:08/d21:00
***Simplon-Tunnel***
Milano 115->12:05/16:05->16:35
Verona d14:20/a13:54
Venezia 16:08->16:15/11:52->12:00 (Venice)
Triest 19:25->19:45/08:20->08:40
Agram a03:05/d01:30
Vinkoven a08:25/d20:07
Beograd 11:35->11:53/16:30->16:53
Nisch a16:58/d11:29
Sofia a22:33/d08:10
Stambul a15:00/d14:50
Nisch d17:25 Tu,Th,Sa/a11:00
Salonique a06:8/d23:50
Athen a18:59/d11:40 Tu,Th,S?
If you look at Bursa on the urbanrail.net you can also see german
trams in turkey (a german city, where the run is f.e. Dortmund)
I am not sure why they are building a 13.5 km rail tunnel to cross a 1.6 km strait, but I suppose they want to put parts of the two suburban lines underground. The report does not say what is to become of the waterfront parts of those suburban lines.
The first bridge was built across the strait in 512 BC. Now there are two suspension bridges: Bosporus I and Bosporus II.
As for the history of Bosporus crossings, the current suspension bridges are the first permanent fixed links, although you're right that conquerors have assembled pontoon bridges and boat bridges to get armies across it ever since the classical past. Otherwise the crossing has been accomplished as it is today, by the city's vast and wonderful network of ferries.
I believe the new tunnel is to start at Yedikule, not Yenikapi, leaving one more intermediate station on the old line.
But can you send a train from one city to the other?
Oh and yes, I have the photo PROFF at the Fort Hamilton Parkway stop.
R40 W 4236
It's not on the map. Granted, the confusion is minimal.
During Wednesday night's City Council meeting, Mayor Mike Ten announced specifics of South Pasadena's settlement agreement with the Blue Line Construction Authority and the MTA, arrived at after a year of "vigorous' negotiations, Ten said in a statement.
Although a tentative settlement had been announced and approved by the South Pasadena City Council on March 24, the parties involved agreed to not make public the precise terms. On Wednesday, the city disclosed them, even though nothing will be official until a judge from the state Public Utilities Commission approves the settlement.
"The city ... achieved most of its ... goals without filing suit, and without spending the estimated budget of between $500,000 to $750,000 ... in litigation,' Ten said in a statement.
MTA will install "rail lubricators,' which cut down on the screeching sound created by steel wheels rubbing against steel railroad tracks. The devices will be installed along two curving stretches of track in South Pasadena where the sound is especially loud: near Orange Grove Avenue and Mound Avenue.
The Construction Authority will build a combined 5,805 feet of additional sound walls, some of which will be paid for by the agency and the rest with funds the city expects to receive, Ten said.
Poles on which electronic crossing gate bells are mounted will be shortened to about 8 feet tall. The bells now emanate from atop 16-foot poles that allow the sound to travel considerable distances, said Karen Heit, the city's transportation manager.
Further, the Construction Authority will reposition the gates at the Mission Street-Meridian Avenue crossing. Although the Gold Line tracks cross the intersection diagonally, the crossing gates run perpendicular to Mission and parallel to Meridian.
Under the change, the gates will be parallel to the railroad tracks, Heit said.
"Right now, people tend to pull up, stop short of the tracks and in front of the gates,' Heit said. "It freaks out the train operators, because they don't know if the person is going to panic and (pull) forward' onto the tracks.
The state judge was scheduled to meet with the parties on Monday for an evidentiary hearing at PUC headquarters in San Francisco, but that hearing has been postponed to June 2, said Michael Montgomery, one of South Pasadena's attorneys for Gold Line matters.
If the judge endorses the terms negotiated by the city, the Construction Authority and MTA, she will forward her findings and recommendations to the five-member PUC board, which has the final say.
A key term of the proposed settlement would be a safety study that the city would conduct and MTA would support to seek permission from the PUC to silence crossing gate bells and train horns between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m.
In return for the concessions by the Construction Authority and MTA, South Pasadena had to agree to drop its challenges before the PUC, and to stop financially supporting a local citizens group, Pasadena Avenue-Monterey Road Committee, that has fought several aspects of the Gold Line.
But now that tonight I am going to post NYC Subway Poem III, what improvements do you think I could make to make NYC Subway Poem III even better than NYC Subway Poems I and II combined? TIA for your thoughts.
P.S.: I am coming back to New York from my vacation in Jersey at 6:30PM.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I am a new poster at Subtalk and I last posted at Bustalk in March 2003, so I am kind of "new" there. I live in Phoenix and I moved from New York in 1993. I have been a railroad/subway/anything on rails enthusiast for as long as I can remember, and I have been a busfan for 3 years. I go back to New York sometimes in the summer, and when I have an opportunity I try to ride some of the trains there. I also ride the Phoenix area bus system, Valley Metro often (as there is not much else there besides buses) and that led me to become a busfan as well.
Rosco
(The guy former known as phoenix6116 at Bustalk)
Chuck Greene
I hope you can get us lots of good pictures of Phoenix's light rail system when it opens in a few years!
Mark
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=681917
Guess what i'm currently work on....
Maybe I'll do a pre-[November]1967 map in color... (none of the pre-1967 maps showed routes, except the pre-1948 IND maps.)
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Here is mine on the NYC subway:
Thanks for the great photo Dave!
Botanical Garden
Here is mine on the Toronto Subway:
Downsview Station
Thanks for the photo Brian M Wolk.
So.. Whats yours?
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
On the NYC subway, its gotta be my favorite station:
On my hometown, the Philadelphia subway, its definately:
4 different lines, great location, great photos, and the yard!
South Ferry Station
(any bench, any time.)
And of course, any position with a view of Rmadillos being scrapped is key.
149st Grand Concourse on 2/5 nb Platform.
Standing opposite of where the Security booth is now... at the mouth of the tunnel
as the REDBIRD trains barreled around the curve and into the station...
Ole!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Oh, well. We're entitled to our opinions. Heck, without diversity, this world (and SubTalk) wouldn't be any fun, brah! ;-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
At West 8th Street on the Brighton line.
Apologies for the grainy-ness of this one. I don't know why it's come out like that. At Avenue J on the tranquil-seeming Brighton line.
Regards,
Jimmy
-Chris
The pick is dated May 23, and that date is contingent upon F/Q service returning to Stillwell. If it doesn't happen on that date, the pick implementation gets delayed until it does. Late enough, and the pick never goes into effect (by that time the Summer pick would be in effect anyway).
David
My bad if this is old news.
Sea Beach Fred's gonna be pissed !
Bill "Newkirk"
David
I'm hoping big time that Stillwell Ave is ready by then, even if I despise the look of the new terminal.
I wonder if that new exit stairwell at Ave X will become permanent ? May be handy for transit employees working at Coney Island shops.
Bill "Newkirk"
Since it's unmanned, I don't see why not.
For a little proff
and...
As per whom? Rapid Transit Operations? Car Equipment? Operations Planning?
David
David
More photos on SubSpot... R-42, 68, and work cars.
Enjoy!
til next time
Thats a great way to get bad feedback, or even booted from eBay...
..or even get sued in small claims court for breaking a legally binding contract.
quit testing and start contributing! :D
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
--A GREEN RailKing R-26 4 car set, 2-car add-on set, and additional R-26s (Premiere) on flat cars
--Subway Entrances with working light fixtures-- labeled as Times Square, Canal Street, and 161st St-Yankee Stadium.
--No sign of R-12 add-ons or Lo-Vs, however
til next time
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE BEAT YOU TO IT---KEVIN (heh)
Nice work ---but you're a little late leaking it over here (heh heh) as I KNOW you caught it first as a mostly lurking fellow member at our NYC Transit Modelers Group board, per my member Philly G who posted the IND R-1/9 notice and the MTH website page link at 9:59 AM Friday morning over at my NYCTMG Board.
Frank G and I were involved with MTH working on these IND cars since this past November-December '03- those are two of FRANK G's two HO Scale Models he owns and painted shown in the MTH Promo-photo...he sent them to MTH for review in mid December last year. I have 6 of those HO R-1/9 models also..so I know their "HO LOOK" as models.
So now KEVIN ---you have ABSOLUTELY NO MORE EXCUSE TO PROCRASTINATE & "BS"---and PLENTY OF TIME TO save for your set now ---they probably will make the shelves by between very late 2004 to mid 2005 (not an official prediction...just my inside guess)
Will see you over at "my place" to bust 'em further
(Oinkkkkkk)
Regards - Joe
Joseph Frank, Webmaster
New York City Transit Modelers Group (Forum board)
(Some of my models below, Kevin --- )
My evil scheme though WORKED ... I figgered if I posted that over here, it'd make you APPEAR like "Froggy the Gremlin" on "Andy's Gang." So ya gonna leak about the LoV's or do I gotta do ALL the water works? :)
Heh heh - BUSTED ! (MY ARRSE...!)
Well, I am not at liberty to divulge what projects I work on with MTH (neither is Frank G) ---lets just say that this seen on my "EL" below ---
and this seen on my "EL" at the left, at the station platform on the local track ---
----will be making an out of state (car-float??) trip for "analytical inspection and review" in the very near future ---- and no more further explanation.
BTW---my previous post here, somewhat above, stated the actual lineage of the "MTH Photo R1/9" models for the MTH Website promo photo....for those who didnt bother to fully read it.
Kevin, I actually know when the MTH site first had that IND R1/9 photo / item placed and I waited to see who spotted it, and posted about it first...as our fellow NYCTMG member Philly G did at our NYCTMG Group board early on Friday morning ! I just didnt want to spoil the fun by revealing it first !!
Jeeeez---I just cant believe that BingBong voted you down for a set !!! (You musta been a REALLY bad boy...Kev !! MOOOoooo....!)
Best Regards ! - Joe
Joseph Frank - Webmaster
New York City Transit Modelers Group
Well, a TIP of the HATLO HAT bro ... my evil plot continues to succeed - look in the mirror, bro - YOU gave up the secret! Boowahahahahahaha (clasps hands in joy) ... moo. (grin)
And as to Bingbong - BOTH of us had Lionel trainsets in our youth. Sadly, pretty much the SAME chit too. If we'd kept them (or our parents) we woulda had NOTHING to trade! Once again, the JOY of being married to a foamer (THIS YEAR is our 25th!) exceeds all the qwap ya gotta deal with. The folks from Branford never told you about the "race to the death" as to WHO got to do the yard moves for WHICH car. Hint: I grabbed 1689, Bingbong grabbed 6688 and we both did it in parallel. (OH, the poor MG back in Unca Jeff's barn as it GROANED from both taking power at the same time, heh) ...
But THANKS, bro! I *knew* I oculd hose ya into giving it up. Be right back to ya after I call the station commander and tell him who gave it up. HAhahahahahahahah ...
But the MTH stuff costs WAY more money than I have, and while it'd be REAL NEAT to have an Arnine to hold and admire, it ain't gonna RUN here - no room. :(
The FAMED "momentary switch" can be spotted in the doorjam of an arnine outside the storm door on the ceiling. Next to the indication fairy light and Beulah the buzzer's magic button is a keyhole that accepts a church key. THAT'S the momentary and one direction ON, other direction OFF, and it controls the HEATERS under the seats.
Since all those toaster coils cost the city some money (SERIOUS money, they can dim NEWARK if there were a lot of arnines out) those signs were placed in only a FEW places where morons worked as conductors and didn't KNOW to kick it off once you got "inside" ... I actually never SAW a sign like that in my LIFE when I worked or rode the rails, but I understand some existed in Queens and Brooklyn as a reminder of "it's warm ENOUGH, shut it down" ...
I'd kick up the heat once I'd closed up in the yard in winter (we used to park them with all the doors opened to "air them out") so part of the preps ritual was to close up, kick on the heaters, check the windows, check the roll signs and roll them out. Once "inside" in the tunnels, you were SUPPOSED to know to kick it off and let the thermostats do their thing instead of "forced heat" (momentary overrode the thermos) much the same as when you work up front, if night suddenly blasts into daylight through that round hole in front of you, douse the CAR lights. :)
I guess some hires after I left needed a bit of a prodding. :-\
Bill "Newkirk"
When I did the preps prior to rolling her out for the funfest, you saw me go through all those autonomic responses of check this, check that, check this, pull that ... it became SO ingrained years ago that I wasn't even AWARE of what I was doing, just doing it. :)
Like riding a bicycle, I suppose.
Battery breaker on
Compressor breaker on
Fans on (although I questioned that, given the weather:))
Lights on
Destination signs on
Local/Express switch to Exp
Door control breaker on (Ha!)
Marker lights to green-green (you had to think for a moment where the cab side lever was)
Those were few, anyway. And yes, you were going through the Cab A/Cab B stuff, too. Not to mention the stubborn door leaf.
And, of course, pole up.:)
But yeah, the hidden hatch threw me for a loop - I was used to (or at least thought I was) the cabside marker paddle being inside the hatch. Forgot about the ceiling flap. Whoops.
I wonder if they'll emit that burned oil smoke like the real things ?
Bill "Newkirk"
But you've got an idea there. I could probably design an oil-pot add-on with a heater coil for folks to retrofit them with.
Six years ago two guys with a buncho electronic stuff spent hours at BSM recording our 1930 Witt, 6119.
As is usual for MTH, not one peep yet.
Those guys are #1 in keeping secrets. Bet they do it better than than the Eff Bee Eye and the Centralintuitive Agency.
I'll believe it when I seet it. Guess it should be ready from MTH for the 102nd Anniversary of the New York City Subway...;-D
My plot worked precisely as planned ... Excellent. So what are we going to do TOMORROW, brain? :)
Summer 2008 ... the POOL is open and the towels are free. And MORE than enough hints have been dropped that 5466 is *next* ... can't BELIEVE though that MTH took 6688 and slapped it on civil war paint. Errrrrr, "war between the states" ... I just HOPE that when the MTH LoV's are issued, that they AIN'T painted RED. :-\
The R-1 set is $499.95
The R-36 set is $399.95
The R-12 Set is $349.95
The add-ons for the R-12, R-26 & R-36 @ $99.95 each = $299.85
The Add-Ons for the R-1s = $149.95
The flat cars with the R-17, R-17 Work, R-26, and R-36 - 2 each at $69.95 = $559.60
The way I see it, that's $4,146.05 MSRP for the undelivered stuff that I want. "Please, make it stop!
D to Brighton Beach!!
There's something about the overcast that messes with the pictures. I think i edited it as much as i can.
I rode the trolley a few weeks ago and I don't know if they've changed the policy or I was just lucky that day-- but I was relieved to NOT hear the unending, repetitious, unnecessary bilingual recordings at every stop. It's a simple little line with plenty of maps providing info, etc. Do you know if the recordings have returned or, we can hope, have been permanently retired?
Well I give the guy an A+ for imagination and a B+ for effort, but those routings are absolutely insane. Especially ending the E at Howard Beach while sending the G (and only the G) into the Rockaways. And with only 3 services on 6th Ave, either the J or the M (or, hell, why not both) should be running up 6th.
I like the general plan. I don't like what he did to Astoria, but overall it's a pretty decent shot at service expansion.
I agree with that opinion 100%. Those routings he made were physically impossible.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The G is. There are no switches that would get a train from the Crosstown to Fulton.
Then again it is a fantasy map and he may have installed his own switches.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Personally, I would give him a B+ for design (some lines aren't as clean as they could be), an A for the SAS, and a C for conforming to reality (as 4traintowoodlawn pointed out, he should have visited the track map page before designing the map).
-Julian
IAWTP. Thank you for referring to my observation. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Mercedes-built LRVs would still have the same appointments as a standard LRV.
Bingo. I don't even thing Long Island care about it's bus service. The service could go under tomorrow and not a many would care as most are motorist to begin with. The only thing that concerns the LI commuter is their train service.
The bus situation remind me of that bus strike out in the midwest that is still going on as far as I know. It's a shame what is happening to those bus commuters but the city does not care since most of the poplulation ownes cars and don't want their taxes to go up for bus transport.
I know some people out there that are riding bicycles to work because because of the bus strike. You might want to start taking your bicycle to the train station because it may be another 1,000 years before the traction lines return to LI.
It includes streetcars, mostly running in what used to be "parking lanes". Street cars are mostly on a North-South axis, but also run to one (or more) of several hubs.
It includes Elevated Lines, running mostly east and west. These have their yards at Republic Airport.
Finally it makes Hempstead a major transit hub, and has a Subway (from the Myrtle-Fifth Avenue line) providing a major connection to Jamaica.
Naturally, the LIRR provides the bulk of LI to NYC traffic, and so all of these lines feed into LIRR stations.
Elias
BTW - what's a good program to use to draw maps on the computer? Paintshop is so-so, but the damn screen doesn't expand to accomidate the large sizes of my pipe dream systems!
IMO, they should just have a simple 2 line heavy rail(LIRR type) service:
Mineola-Stewart Av-Clinton Rd-Quentin Roosvelt BLVD-Mitchell Field-Hofstra-Nassau Collesium-EAB Plaza-Mariott-NCC-Selfridge Av-Quentin Roosevelt BLVD-Clinton Rd-Stewart Av-Mineola
Hempstead Transit Center-CLP-Clinton Rd-Stewart Av-RFM-Zeckendorf BLVD-Ellison Av-Merrick Av
Bill "Newkirk"
Trains traveling from OB to NYC will continue at grade as is
Trains operating from OB to Far Rock will have 2 seperate tracks that begin just before Mineola. From there, those tracks go below ground, which allows it to go under the mainline and the building blocking the the old ROW. It stays underground until just south of Old Country Rd. From there, the line reamains at grade to West Hempstead. Simple as that.
1. Look for your Metrocard BEFORE standing in the turnstile. Have a
look around you, you are in people's way, and you are going to be
killed. Step aside, get your fucking act together, and then proceed
to the turnstile.
2. When you see you are about to pull into your station, get your
24,000 shopping bags together, pick your lazy ass up off the seat,
and head toward the door. Don't wait for the train to stop, doors to
open, and THEN begin the process of thinking about exiting the train
to stop, doors to open, because then people must stop boarding the
train to accommodate your lazy ass. If you make people miss getting into the train, they
will come after you and wrap that fucking Burberry scarf around your
neck until you choke.
3. During rush hour, if you are standing at the door, get the fuck out of the way and let people get off/on. No, really, watch how fucking AWESOME it is when you move and people can get by you. It ROCKS! It's really very simple.
4. Oh, speaking of that, let people off the train before you stampede in full-force because you are terrified you won't have a seat for your lazy ass. The SHRINE to this phenomenon is the Queens-bound platform at the 63/lex station.
5. There is no need to use the ticket booth. Get a credit card and use the machines. Why are there 6 billion people in line at the booth, do you like abuse you receive from the surly bitch behind the counter?
6. You have a bike? USE IT. Don't bring your bike on the train and make it impossible for everyone to move. It's especially sweet when you bring it on the uptown-bound 6 train at rush hour, like you did yesterday you fucking asshole.
7. 13-year old gangsta girls: there is no need to scream your entire ludicrous conversation at the absolute top of your lungs. It really is OK to just speak at a normal tone, and not make everyone on the train want to smack the shit out of you.
8. Legless homeless man on F train in wheelchair with the curiously attractive girl pushing him: you only need to shake the metal can of change 500 times, you can stop after that. We get the point that you are asking for money. You see, we are on our way to work, haven't had coffee yet, and really don't need to hear change rattle in a can for 40 minutes. Many, many thanks. (Oh, other homeless people, you can shut the fuck up too).
9. Need directions? Can I direct your attention to...THE MAP? Don't hold up trains by asking conductors and engineers what fucking train you should be taking.
10. Remove your giant backpack before entering the crowded train. This is a no-brainer. But then, you have no brain.
Peace,
ANDEE
"AYO FAQUISHA! GET ON DA TWAIN!"
"NAH IMA STAY HEEAAAH."
Then you have to wait another minute for all 20 of Faquisha's "friends" to unload off of the train. VERY irritating.
Haha, you think the trains are bad you should see the buses and how people stand in the front stairwell looking for their Metrocards and causing an inconvenience to fellow passengers.
7. 13-year old gangsta girls: there is no need to scream your entire ludicrous conversation at the absolute top of your lungs. It really is OK to just speak at a normal tone, and not make everyone on the train want to smack the shit out of you.
As Clayton mentioned, these wannabe grown up girls are so got damn annoying and LOUD!. They're boy hungry of course and they're only showing off themselves so I just laugh at the immaturity.
10. Remove your giant backpack before entering the crowded train. This is a no-brainer. But then, you have no brain.
Man, its amazing how often this happens.........
1a) If you are boarding a train, please wait until the people getting off the train have gotten off. The driver can see you. Unless the train is full, s/he will wait until you get on board.
1b) If you are already aboard the train, do not stand in front of the doors unless you are getting off. If the train is crowded and it is necessary for you to stand in front of the doors, when the doors open you may hold onto the rails beside them and step outside of the train and to one side of the doors, then get back on board after others have disembarked.
Penalty for violation: being forced to repeat your crime at Lucien-L'Allier metro immediately prior to or after a Habs game and being trampled by a horde of irate hockey fans.
2) It is considered polite to give up one's seat to elderly people. It is not considered polite for an elderly person to glare at someone for not giving up their seat when there is an empty seat not half a metre away.
Penalty for violation: having another passenger courteously give up their seat to you, then being strapped into it until your bladder control gives out.
3) Do not stand two abreast in a crowded escalator. Do not walk up the escalator beside a row of standing passengers and then suddenly stop, causing circulation to grind to a halt.
Penalty for violation: being fed face-first into the scary looking metal comb-shaped thing at the top of the escalator.
4) Do not stand underneath a no-smoking sign and smoke.
Penalty for violation: instant death.
5) Do not run for a metro whose doors have already closed. They will not be opened again for you, especially if the train has already begun to gather way. In particular, do not charge directly at me while I am running for a metro which is still stopped and whose doors are still open.
Penalty for violation: being strapped between platforms at Lionel-Groulx metro and being decorated by a local youth with a spray can.
6) Do not curse and swear at the ticket changer in English.
Penalty for violation: being forced to sing "O Canada" and "God Save The Queen" repeatedly at Préfontaine metro.
7) Do not make loud homophobic comments while aboard a metro train.
Penalty for violation: being strapped to a banister at Beaudry metro and being forced to watch two men enjoy a long, deep kiss.
Your pal,
Fred
Even better are the ones who time it. I've dealth with mny people who watch me, and when I move my finger to the shutter button step in front of the camera.
That's what I meant! Jay-sus, this guy did it to me twice.
Your pal,
Fred
Imagine what that will look like when a transfer to the "T" (SAS) train opens there.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I used silver.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
, and then had the audacity to blame our browsers
When I responded to Dan Lawrence, I wasn't yelling. Neither was I speaking insolently. I just said what may have been the problem. I was not saying his browser was bad or anything.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I checked the source code in your reply. You didn't close the HTML properly.
I checked in both Netscape and IE. Same bleed-over in both.
[ Read Responses | Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
[ First in Thread | Next in Thread ]
Re: HA HA ...Funny Shit
Posted by 4traintowoodlawn on Sun Apr 11 00:03:35 2004, in response to Re: HA HA ...Funny Shit, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Apr 10 23:51:47 2004.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Responses
Re: HA HA ...Funny Shit - DCrazy - Sun Apr 11 00:26:19 2004
Re: HA HA ...Funny Shit - 4traintowoodlawn - Sun Apr 11 00:52:07 2004
Re: HA HA ...Funny Shit - David of Broadway - Sun Apr 11 01:03:58 2004
Re: HA HA ...Funny Shit - Douce Man - Sun Apr 11 01:19:02 2004
Re: HA HA ...Funny Shit - Dan Lawrence - Sun Apr 11 11:31:28 2004
Post a New Response
Your Handle:
Your Password:
E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
<BR>
[ Return to the Message Index ]
-Chris
12. Homeless people: please accept shelter--we already have service that stinks figuratively! We do not need a literal stink fest! (This goes double for the E train.)
(As for #5, Andee, you really need to see the front of an E or V train at 53/Lex, going southbound, and tell me that THAT is not packing sardines into a can! (Oh, this is getting delicious!)
Very truly yours,
Adam
Jimmy
And let's not forget the dirty looks you get from the door blocker when the train enters the station at the side your doors will open. Facial expression = Yes I'm blocking the doorway, you got a problem with that ?
"10. Remove your giant backpack before entering the crowded train. This is a no-brainer. But then, you have no brain."
Oh how true ! I like it when they turn abruptly and knock you off your balance.
Bill "Newkirk"
Oh how true ! I like it when they turn abruptly and knock you off your balance.
Or how you manage to get a seat during rush hour and they have their bookbag 2 inches away from your face for the whole f*****g ride!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I started out by riding the B82 (RTS 4999) to the L train (shuttle as usual, R143 car 8221), and then the A express to Pennsylvania Station (R44 5278). There, I caught the 11:58 train to Trenton, an Arrow III MU consist as usual (although I have sometimes seen Comet push-pulls, one time strangely enough hauled by a GP-40 locomotive, but usually by an AEM7 or AEM8 [ALP44 and ALP46 in NJT talk]), which was a rather good ride, getting to sleep along the way. At Trenton, I caught some quick grub to take with me on the 1:38 R7 to 30 Street Station, car #171, arriving at 30 Street-Philadelphia just prior to 2:30.
Once at 30 Street, the first thing I did was buy 6 tokens (I was NOT going to pay the $2.00 base fare and look foolish, although I did see a good plenty people doing so during my travels). My original intention was to ride a bus, but when I got frustrated looking around for the one I wanted, I decided to descend into the Market-Frankford line, originally heading for the high speed line, but abruptly changing to ride the trolley. The first one that came was the 36 to Eastwick, and that is what I got on: #9052. It was a medium-paced ride down the rails and the streets (isn’t it nice to force cars to wait behind you?) to Eastwick and 80 Street, at Penrose Plaza. There, I got off, and immediately got on a trolley going back to Center City: #9093. (I looked at the schedule, and either it was just me, or it seemed as though the 36 was running tighter than 6 minute headways! The better for me!)
Once I got back to 30 Street, I then got on the westbound Market-Frankford train to 69 Street, on ADTranz car #1043. (Some of these cars are not looking too good, how old are they again, 7 or 8 years?) However, I had to like the railfan view, similar to that on the PATCO, except in reverse. Once I got to 69 Street, I then boarded the 100 line to Bryn Mawr (N-5 141, express to Norristown). I reversed direction at Bryn Mawr, taking a local back (N-5 145) to 69 Street. There, I was intending to ride the 65, but all I saw were 416 (model) buses out of nearby Callowhill, and no artics out of Allegheny (I had seen 7202 there earlier), and so I got back on the Market -Frankford. I rode this to 8 Street, at a railfan seat on ADTranz car #1100, forgetting that the transfer between the Broad-Ridge spur and the Market-Frankford is not free. However, this was mitigated by the fact that the train was an express to Olney The car was Kawasaki B-IV 691. I was caught running down the platform at 8th Street because I had walked forward, not aware that the train was only two cars. There, I got off, walked to street level, and saw a heaven of buses (pictures will be posted this weekend on BusTalk, as well as some of my sights there, as that is off topic for this board.) My final leg in Philadelphia was my lone bus ride of the day (mentioned to maintain continuity), NABI 416 5242 on Route C. This bus was running late because of several wheelchair passengers using this bus, and was overtaken by 5195. This ride was rather good, especially through Temple University areas, albeit a little crowded.
When my C bus arrived at the end of its run, I then made my way over to the magnificent-looking Suburban Station. (If you have not been to Philly, that building is a dream! Philly locals already know about this great Art Deco structure, possibly the former home of SEPTA Railroad Division’s predecessor, the Pennsylvania R. R. (?)) I had a wait for the 7:19 R7 train at Suburban, car #424, and then a quick transfer to another NEC Arrow III MU, car #1366 initallly, and then #1486. (Actually, I had gotten on in #1366, because the first two cars were closed initially, but when the train reached Edison, seven sexy girls had gotten on. As much as I wanted to ogle them, I did want to rest, and when the front two cars opened at Ellizabeth, I had moved there, but the seven girls followed me! They needed to urinate, and they said they were going to go at Penn Station, but I told them that the front car, #1487, had a restroom in it, and so they went up there to use it. If anyone wants more details on this portion, IM me at screen name Allison B500R.)
I then took the 3 train home, but it was pulled from service after developing door problems at Rutland Road. Another train took me from there to Pennsylvania Avenue, where I took the B83 home.
The equipment I rode today, IN ORDER!
4999 RTS B82
8221 R143 L
5470 R44 A
1404 Arrow IIIA NEC to Trenton
171 Silverliner IV R7 to 30 Street
9052 Kawasaki SE LRV 36 to Eastwick
9093 Kawasaki SE LRV 36 to Center City
1043 ADTranz M4 Market-Frankford to 69 Street
141 ABB N5 100 N/B
145 ABB N5 100 S/B
1100 ADTranz M4 Market-Frankford to 8 Street
691 Kawasaki B-IV N/B to Olney
5242 NABI 416 C bus to Center City
424 Silverline IV R7 to Trenton
1366/1486 Arrow IIIA NEC to NY/Penn
1445 R62 #3
1850 R62A #3
4411 RTS B83
One question: I noticed a station closed on the Broad-Ridge spur between Chinatown and Fairmount. What was this station, and why was it closed? Thanks.
Pictures will be posted this weekend.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
>>One question: I noticed a station closed on the Broad-Ridge spur between Chinatown and Fairmount. What was this station, and why was it closed? Thanks.<<
This was the Spring Garden Station. It was closed in 1991 due to extremely low ridership, mostly because the mainline BS Spring Garden station is like 2 blocks away, and that the MFL Spring Garden station is maybe 8.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
True, but look at the seats on them! (Some are already flat or falling off.)
When the Subtalk SEPTA excursion group got its unexpected shop tour at 69th Street shops, we learned that the seats were a big issue. During the design phase of the M4's, the experience-based wishes of the shop people were vetoed by the ignorant executives in Center City, and plush seats were ordered. We saw an entire room filled with damaged seats that had been removed from the trains.
Mark
Mark
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Mark
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Here's the sequel poem (sorry about the link tags for post #687626).
We love the NY City Subway.
Many folks like the station artwork.
Good thing it's not the city STubway.
Workers have to do the subway YAHDWOIK (Got that one from CI Peter).
DefJef says the subway stinks.
But he never gives us any links.
The NYC Subway is the oldest in America.
For him to say it's the worst is an insult to Sumerica (Subway America).
But the heck with DefJef,
because the NYC Subway does not get an F.
It gets an A.
And railfans say yay whenever they see a train.
Whether it's the sun or it's the rain,
it's never to bad
even for a lad
to go railfanning.
Hopefully Al-Qaeda doesn't lead to the banning.
The subway may have opened in 1904,
but they keep it up and running.
We can all just go on wishing for more.
The NYC Subway took a blow in the 1970s.
The graffiti epidemic exploded out of nowhere.
That epidemic grew in the 1980s.
The MTA declared war.
1984.
The graffiti was erased.
The vandalism was spaced.
The vandals lost.
It took a lot of money.
But it was worth the cost.
The MTA won.
May 12, 1989.
The graffiti was done (for).
The crime rate has declined.
The city's been refined.
This poem was arranged and typed by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn.
I hope you like it. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
When entering a link, do this:
[a href="whatever you want to link to"] type the words you want people to click on right here [/a]
substitute the [ for < and the ] for >
<a href="whatever you want to link to"> write your text here </a>
2 things though:
>>The NYC Subway is the oldest in America.
I'm not exactly sure, but I thought Bostons subway was the oldest in America, you should check up though, because im not sure.
And just remember to type </a> after links.
Keep up the good work!
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Thank you all for your understanding of CC Local's situation.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
There was this time not too far back when I called you a idiot on bustalk. I'm sorry for that. I was pissed off at something, and I took it out on the wrong person. My apoligiez.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
there be some brahs in here who wish you'd put up that "revoke my membership" stipulation
more often.....
-DONT- encourage them.
Got the 7 train out of Flushing to TSQ. Spotted the circus train at HP Av just before the tunnel.
Walked over to PABT and hung out for a few hrs....that place is alot bigger than I thought. Saw some DeCamp, some Lakeland. Then I went out to 9th and....uh.....41st? Saw a hole load of buses comming in from west of the hudson. Got some nice pictures(atleast I hope). A few hounds(one of them read Mobile, Al on the destination sign), some Academy, Martz, Bieber, and a few Red and Tans.
Took 1/9 to 50th, walked over to my mom's office, got some more cash. Went over to that exhibit they got at the UBS building, pretty neat. Took the B/D or w/e it is now from Rockefeller to 42nd, got the 7 to GCT, met up with a friend from phili.
Commin home I grabbed the L from 3rd Av, took it to the 3, met my mom at NYP, took LIRR PW line home.
I'm really hoping my pictures came out. Got some pics from the train and a lot of bus pics at PABT.
First, a 2 car R-21\22 revenue collection train bypassed the station on the uptown track. I could only see the numbers OR7xx on both cars. This was my first time ever seeing one of the revenue collection trains operating in person exept when they are in lay-up in the yards during the daytime.
Second, about 5 minutes later on the downtown track where I was standing a #4 comes into the station but does not stop. As the train is going through the station I start to look at the number boards, now this is where things start to get strange.
The first 5 car set was a R-142A with #73xx.
The second 5 car set was a R-142 with #11xx.
This could not have been an out of service move,as there was a lot of people on board. It was also signed up as a #4 train,but I did not see what the train's destination was.
Has anyone else ever see the R-142,R142A equipment operating together
ethier in the yard or in revenue service as I descibed above?
Dan
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I thought I saw something like that on a Sunday evening, last Febuary, about 8 or 9 o'clock, on the northbound express track, at Grand Central. It didn't register to me until after it pulled out of the station, simply because I didn't think it was a possibility (this is kinda hard to explain, but I think you know what I mean). Upon reflection, the car numbers didn't make sense; the first half of the train, probably a 4, was numbered 72xx the second half was numbered 71xx (this stuff I automatically remember). I haven't seen any like that since then, although I've been on alert.
Mark
Dan
The links are below if you want to refer back.
NYC Subway Poem I.
NYC Subway Poem II.
NYC Subway Poem III.
TIA for your reviews/contributions.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Music? No thanks.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Your pal,
Fred
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Not only is it good for poems, but also, link it to your subwayspot.com gallery. Make a page for each poem and it will show up on the side column or on top (depending on which template you use). Whenever you come out with a new one, just link that page to your SubTalk post
(Ex:<a href=http://www.freewebs.com/*yourusername*/Poem_1.htm>Click here for NYCT Poem #1</a>).
And if you do make a site, make sure you link it to nycsubway.org and hopefully my site, www.freewebs.com/siny_r143.
Ben, keep up the good work dude!
-Chris
Not only is it good for poems, but also, link it to your subwayspot.com gallery. Make a page for each poem and it will show up on the side column or on top (depending on which template you use). Whenever you come out with a new one, just link that page to your SubTalk post
(Ex:<a href=http://www.freewebs.com/*yourusername*/Poem_1.htm>Click here for NYCT Poem #1</a>).
And if you do make a site, make sure you link it to nycsubway.org and hopefully my site, www.freewebs.com/siny_r143.
Ben, keep up the good work dude!
(BTW: I know I could have e-mailed you, but I wanted others to [maybe] hear about freewebs.com, to encourage them to make a site too.)
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Now, to hazard the following. I think you are mistaken. I don't recall there ever being a clearance modification on th IRT. The IRT cars are and have been the same clearance as were the Els that preceeded them But of course there have been station length extension. the IRT was the big victim of extension, starting around the 40s. Some stations were really desacrated. I suspect it went from five cars to ten.
As you said, there has been a great deal of platform extension on the IRT. Too much to go into here, but some stations had minor extensions, into the former manhole spaces at the ends of the platforms, early on. Then to nine-car length, and finally to ten.
Ten-car R type cars needed longer platforms than ten-car IRT standards, because the end doors didn't open on the old cars.
Michael Wares
Also, the Hi-V and Lo-V cars had end vestibules, and generally did not use the vestibule doors at the ends of the trains, so that a 10-car platform only accommodate a bit over 9 cars, thus requiring a 50 foot or so extension when the R-type cars were introduced in the 1950s.
-- Ed Sachs
The IRT never extended the platform edges. In 1904, the platform edges were in the exact same spot they are today (The original IRT -pre-dual contracts lines - were built to narrower specs, the same specs the BMT and IRT used on the old 1800's el lines), however the IRT did extend the length of the platforms a few times. In 1910, the first wave of extensions happened when the platforms were first extended a bit. In the 1930's the first major extensions took place. Many stations on the Contract One lines were extended (some only one side). In the 1950's, many of the station platforms on the IRT that were not extended in the 1930's were finally extended to full length.
When the BMT/IND did it, they actually extended the platform lengths so that they would be 600 feet long.
IINM, the IND was built with much longer platforms than the BMT, so I don't think many were extended. The BMT had many random extensions, some many many years ago, and others as recently as the 60's. For example, the Nassau stations at Canal and Bowery were extended very early on, proabably by the 1920's already. To this day, at the northern end of those stations, you can see where the very old extensions took place (and even with that, the stations are still not "full length") see photo below, you can see where the tile mosaics disappear on this very old extension that was built into the tunnel at Canal Street:
The last wave of extensions on the BMT was done in the 60's when all the BMT stations that weren't long enough to allow for full length 75 foot cars in anticipation of the arrival of the R44-46's were extended. This is except for the Eastern Division lines of course.
As for the "width" extensions you mentioned, that was only done on the BMT lines that were rebuilt from older el lines under the dual contracts (Upper Myrtle, Broadway El, Astoria, the old Fulton El). When they were rebuilt, they also recieved platforms that would allow for the larger "subway" cars as opposed to the narrower "IRT-Like" el cars that ran on the BMT (and IRT). Some stations had both types of equipment running on them, such as upper Myrtle.
Just to clarify, Astoria's widths were extended later than the others mentioned, when it was connected to the 60th St tube. In the beginning, the Astoria and Flushing lines were run jointly by the BMT and IRT using the BMT el-IRT sized cars. When the Astoria was connected to the 60th St tunnel, the platforms were widened to allow for the wider "subway" cars.
You must mean that the platforms were reduced in width (shaved back) to allow more room for the new subway cars!
And I believe that for quite a long time the IRT ran 10-car trains stopping at 5-car platforms.
For additional MTA proposals outside of the IND 2nd System, considered the possiblity the following routes had existed as well:
(a) the BMT tunnle to Staten Island linking to the SIR per 1920's plans
(b) the capture of the Whitestone LIRR for subway service
(C) had the fomrer World's Fair line become a permanent line
(d) the N/W train exension to LaGuardia Airport
(e) extension of Archer Avenue service to Queens Village and Laurelton
(f) strange proposal of a late 1980's-early 1990's study to connect the LIRR Montauk Line to the 63rd Street Tunnel as well as the Queens Super Express
(g) If I left out any other MTA proposals, let me feel free to add them on your commentary
Also consider these questions:
(4) Also what about ridership? Do you think there would've been a bigger population growth in the areas that these lines were to serve?
(5) How would this impact current ridership patterns?
(6) Do you think the larger network would be too much to handle for the MTA either management or funding wise or both--would that mean fare hikes would've occurred more often than in reality in order to help maintain the larger subway system in top condition?
Though this question mostly pertains to the B Division, the effect that it has on the A Division may want to be considered too when answering. Also for the 2nd AVenue line, you can use any of the versions that were proposed over the years to support any part of your answer. I will give my opinion in a later post.
CDTA
http://www.mta.info/mta/capital/
Anything that's been proposed is in one of the two places I've listed above.
David
No new trackwork necessary, and it still hasn't been done yet. Yet, we're spending billions to bring LIRR to Grand Central.
I would love to know why there's cars going through Times Square. What could be gained by letting 2 lanes of cars go through this spot instead of some other street. The rest of the world has cars closed from college campuses and some downtown streets on weekend nights, but not NY.
It doesn't look right to me.
Many towns in Britain have had their main shopping streets bypassed. The bypass roads, with multi-storey car parks, have been built to carry the bulk of the traffic. There is easy pedestrian access from car parks to shopping streets. Delivery vehicles can reach the shops via side streets or rear entrances. The main shopping streets are full-time "pedestrian precincts".
N/W to LGA
Convert Airtrain to subway and give to MTA, extend to LGA via Flushing
7 train extension over Whitestone Expressway/CIP to Fort Totten
Restore CRRLI
7 train to downtown via West Side Highway
MTA plans I know of off the top of my head:
SAS
LIRR to Downtown via Brooklyn
7 to JJC
ESA
Fulton St Transit Center
-Chris
-Chris
For the ones that make, that show street maps on them, I use Microsoft's Streets and Trips. You can zoom in and out, draw the lines that you like, and even save a portion as a jpg. Actually, I just slect a section and use the copy command, and then using Adobe PageMaker Elements, I paste it into a new document, that I save as a .gif.
For other things I use Serif DrawPlus. I helps if you know the two basic different kinds of programs.
Adobe PhotoShop and Microsoft Paint (it comes with your operating system) are "Raster Graphics". Especially with "Paint" there is no going back to change things, what you see on the screen is what you get. Raster Graphics are what a .bmp file is made of (regardless of what form you eventually save it in.) It goes dot by dot, and dives a value for each dot. The files are very large, and not useful for transmission over the internet, especially for those who have dial-up connections. (It could take over an hour to download one file.)
It is true that Photo Shop uses layers, and so you can work with and move the layers, so it does have more flexibility. Still if you draw a line, what you have is that line and you cannot change it. (though you can delete the layer and try again.~~~ With Paint you cannot even do that.)
The other major way of doing graphics is "Vector Graphics" where the program creates the image from a mathmatical formula, which allows for much smaller files, and allows you to fix, change and undo things more easily. If you want to get into this stuff, you really need to learn both kinds, for each has its place. When you download a small .jpg file, your computer decodes the information and paints it on the screen using "raster" or bit-map technology. So the .30KB file that you downloaded might well use 1000 KB of RAM to display it on your screen, for the screen is a raster device.
To make a nice map, you will need a vector graphics program. You will draw your land masses on one layer, parks and other landmarks on another, and each line on its own layer. This way changes that you make to one object do not screw up other objects. The nice thing with a vector program is that you may add "handles" to your line, and manipulate it: you can make it wider or thiner, you can smooth out a curve, and it retains its dimensions. You can layer objects one on top of the other, and then change the order of the layers.
Just fool around with them and see what you can do.
You can download sahreware from the internet (tucows.com is reliable~ freeware from other sites frequently has spyware and adware built into them as part of the "price"... be ware of freeware! tucows IIRC does not list such programs on its site.)
Elias
CDTA
Arti
The 1980's saw the subways claw their back up from the abyss of defered maintenance and municipal neglect into which the system had fallen during the 1970's to once again become a first class transit operation.
At the start of the decade virtually the entire system was covered in grafitti. You had to wait until the doors opened on your train(if they opened) to see what station you where at because all the windows were covered with paint, so too were most of the station signs. Car and stations were filthy and hoodlums roomed the system. Most people rode the system only during the rush hours if they could. Even the most die-hard railfan would take an express bus at night rather then ride the subway.
There was one day (and I wish I could find the date reference) where nearly 50% of the fleet failed to answer the call to service. There were numerous fires and derailments.
In the mid-80s Dick Ravitch became head of the MTA and David Gunn became head of the NYCTA and they statred to turn the system around. New cars such as the R-62's and 62A's were ordered and the older IRT cars (aka the Redbirds) were rebuilt and re-entered service. Subway yards were now protected by 20 foot high dual fences patrolled by guard dogs and maintenance and custodial crews were stationed at every terminal promptly checked and cleaned each train as it came in. Graffitti was removed at once if the job was too big the train was dispatched to the yard for cleanup.
Entire subway lines were shut down at nights and on weekend to allow much needed repair and tunnel where cleaned of garbage and debris thereby cutting down on the incidence of fire.
Much work remained to be done as the 1990's began but the system was definitely on the way up.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Chris: I'm thinkng about going on the one next Saturday.
Larry,RedbirdR33
They will call the system "CAT" ... Capitol Area Transit (meow...)
It will operate 12 routes on about a 30 minute headway between 6:30 AM and 6:30 PM
Fortunately, it does not take very long to drive through this city.
Elias
The "downtown" map is at the center of the upper map.
There are two railroad lines in the middle of town, the BNSF on the south side of main street has been cut back to a single track, the former SOO line north of main has been cut back to 17th Street, and the "empty" space was purchaced by one of the hospitals for use as a parking lot.
: ) Elias
he Minneapolis City Council will be looking at a proposal for a streetcar line linking Lake Calhoun and Lake of the Isles with the Hiawatha light-rail line. Although the streetcar system for the Midtown Greenway is still in the early proposal stages, it is a positive idea that should receive serious consideration.
There appear to be few drawbacks to the streetcar line proposal. Already, 13 neighborhood groups have lined up in support of the proposal.
----
The current proposal calls for the recommissioning of streetcars from Minneapolis’ original lines. The streetcars, of course, would be retrofitted to allow peak performance. Not only does the streetcar line hint at nostalgia, it hints at the future. Using trolley cars instead of buses encourages a transport system that is not only more reliable, but more environmentally friendly — not to mention that anything encouraging public-transit use is a good thing.
-----------
Fifty years after automobile manufacturers successfully lobbied for the death of Minneapolis’ streetcars, the costs of much-needed public transit infrastructure continue to go up every year. Because the streetcar line is still in its proposal stage, it might be five years before trolleys are zipping through the Midtown Greenway. The sooner the better.
-----
As for the Lo-V's builders:
4577-5302 were Pullman products, built in 1916-1917.
5303-5402 were Pullman products, built in 1922.
5403-5627 were American Car & Foundry, built in 1924.
"Steinway" cars 5628-5652 were also AC&F, 1926.
he "World's Fair" cars came from St. Louis Car Co. in 1938.
Bayman: Steve Hoskins has already answered the part about who built the Lo-Vs so I'll answer the part about the last runs.
During the 1960's serivce on the 3 Avenue El in The Bronx was provided by Steinway Motors, World's Fair-Steinway Motors and Low-V Trailers. (One per train). One by one the old cars were aging out and the availability of equiptment became a critical matter. In 1968 the five rebuilt museum Low-V Motors (5286,5290,5443,5466,5483) were placed in service on the el in order to protect the service.
On or about August 30,1969 R-12's started to appear on the el in four car trains and it was clear that the days of the IRT cars were numbered.
I rode the el on October 18 on that year and their were three trains left of the old cars. I recorded the consists;
WF 5669 Stm 5641 WF 5679
Lo-VM 5483 WF 5670 WF 5684
Lo-VT 5356 Lo-VT 5353 Lo-VT 5340
WF 5666 StM 5636 WF 5658
WF 5655 WF 5676 Lo-VM 5466
The last trip of the old cars was on November 3, 1969. Cars (N)5641,5670,5353,5636 and 5676 made one round trip in the AM rush.
Larry,RedbirdR33
It was due to the weight of the trains. A now deceased friend of mine worked for the TA at the time. It seems that on the first day they did try to run five car trains of R-12's and that caused rivets to pop out of the el structure up and down 3 Avenue. THe emergency repair crews were kept busy that day.
They also reduced the number of trains though. Peak service with the old trains was 11-5 car trains, with the R-12's it was 8-four car trains.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Actually the cars weighted about the same. The World's Fair cars were 75,130 lbs. and the R-12's were 73,100 lbs. I believe that the problem was the faster accleration of the R-12's. This would have been espically true on the section of the el below Fordham Road as Chris said. The section north of Fordham Road was built to Dual Contracts standards.
Larry,RedbirdR33
#3 West End Jeff
1. Get transit police.
2. Become a vigilante.
Inside each door there are about eight metal rods that close with the door. If the door closes correctly, you will never see them. If a door leaf is held, the rods will continue to close except for any individual rod that is also blocked.
Four to six rods ought to lock closed, the door leaf and will then recycle, but the locked rods will not reopen. This blocks the door giving the unwary an opertunity to extract themselves, or else leaves a door holder with two choices:
1) give it up and let the train go, or
2) wait for the transit policement to arrest him and remove him from the premisis.
Elias
If it happens in front of me, I usually yell at them.
By pushing them put of the train? By yelling at the assholes? Those aren't bad ideas hehehe...........
1. So you run out of the train to get a cop, the a**hole friend finally gets there, the doors close, the train pulls out. Then you get a cop and bring him back to the empty platform to see a whole lot of nothing. Now you get to stand there like an idiot and wait for the next train.
So I think that means:
2. Somebody call Bernie Goetz!!
:)
Don't even know what to say...
Now scratchiti artists, on the other hand... :)
Gutsy, but it saved the C/R the aggravation (and time!)
The bastard on the platform looked like he'd missed his prom.
The guy IN the car got a few cheers of applause.
Kool-D and Christopher Rivera prolly remember this episode, since
we'd just left the NY Times Building...
Da Hui
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
By Jason Garcia | Tallahassee Bureau
Posted April 10, 2004
TALLAHASSEE -- Universal Orlando is backing efforts to kill a cross-state bullet train with a six-figure financial contribution after state rail planners bypassed the tourist corridor and mapped a route straight to Walt Disney World.
Outmuscled last year by Disney -- which demanded that the train speed from Orlando International Airport directly to Central Florida's tourism behemoth before heading to Tampa -- Universal and other tourist attractions along International Drive are pledging support to a group trying to overturn the constitutional amendment with a new vote this fall.
It won't be easy. They need to collect 488,722 certified signatures in less than four months to get the initiative before voters on the November ballot. Florida voters approved the measure in 2000.
However, Universal alone already has contributed $220,000 to the effort, company officials said -- all but $50 of what Palm Beach County-based "Derail the Bullet Train," or DEBT, has raised so far. The group's latest campaign-finance report will be released next week.
"As with others in the community, we are lending both our support and our financial resources to the petition effort," said Susan Lomax, a Universal spokeswoman. "The ideal solution would be a route that incorporates all of the major entities in the area."
When the Florida High Speed Rail Authority was planning a route for the train last fall, SeaWorld Orlando, Universal and I-Drive businesses lobbied for following the Bee Line Expressway from the airport to the Orange County Convention Center area. After Disney officials threatened not to cooperate if planners chose the Bee Line route -- potentially robbing the train of millions of riders -- the authority picked a route along the Central Florida GreeneWay instead -- the route Disney preferred.
"I plan on giving them some money next week," added Orlando attorney John Morgan, who owns the I-Drive attractions WonderWorks and the Magical Midway. Morgan said DEBT organizers have asked him for $50,000.
"If Disney wants this, they should pay for the whole thing," he said.
High-speed-rail opponents, most notably Gov. Jeb Bush, have long blasted the multibillion-dollar project as exorbitantly expensive, threatening to siphon money from other vital projects. Bullet-train supporters counter that opponents exaggerate the costs. But local critics are more upset by the route. By having the train go directly from the airport to Disney, they say, the rail authority is letting Disney freeze out everyone from Universal and SeaWorld to the Orange County Convention Center.
Disney spokesman Bill Warren said the company opposed the Bee Line route only because it would have prevented any future light-rail system from including Osceola County.
Authority member Lee Chira said Disney's stance forced the board to capitulate because to be financially successful, the train needs Disney customers as riders. As part of the GreeneWay agreement, Disney promised to encourage its visitors to take the train instead of its buses from the airport.
This is not the first time bullet-train opponents, led by Bush, have tried to kill the amendment. Each of the past two years, they have tried unsuccessfully to repeal it through the Legislature. The petition-drive repeal attempt is backed by Bush and Florida Chief Financial Officer Tom Gallagher.
Though DEBT, which was formed by Palm Beach County leaders, has languished for several years, it was quickly reinvigorated by the prospect of Bush and Gallagher's fund-raising prowess.
While Universal is the only major contributor so far, DEBT officials say they have received pledges of support from many other prominent businesses, including SeaWorld and its parent company, Anheuser-Busch.
A SeaWorld spokeswoman said she didn't know whether the theme park is involved with DEBT, but the company does oppose the bullet train because of its route.
"SeaWorld Orlando opposes the rail project, as the chosen route does not benefit the Central Florida tourism community as a whole," said Becca Bides, the spokeswoman.
There is also plenty of opposition from the other businesses along I-Drive, which includes more than 100 hotels, 200 restaurants and 400 retail outlets, said Maria Triscari, executive director of the International Drive Resort Area Chamber of Commerce.
"If the train would have served the interests of the community, it might have been a viable project," Triscari said. "It's basically only serving one entity -- and that's a private corporation."
Mark Mills, a spokesman for DEBT, vowed that the group's fund raising would come from individuals and organizations all across the state, not just along I-Drive. Because of state campaign-finance laws, DEBT had to make its first report within days of beginning the campaign, Mills said.
Mills declined to say how many signatures the group has collected so far.
Whatever amount Universal and others pump into the repeal campaign, high-speed-rail backers shouldn't expect similar support from Disney. Warren, the Disney spokesman, said the company will remain neutral.
Keith Rupp, president of the pro-bullet-train Florida Transportation Association, said he isn't worried. After all, high-speed rail already has plenty of supporters, he said -- including nearly 3 million people who voted for it in 2000.
"I really hope that it doesn't become a war between theme parks," Rupp said.
And I guess Shrub and his chums CONSTANTLY screwing everything up has probably convinced him that once there's regime change at home, HIS ass is GOING TO JAIL. And that regime change is looking more and more every day like it's GOING to happen. Heh.
But BACK to the REAL topic here - I bristle every time some Limbaugh druggie whines about "Welfare queens" and "runaway entitlements" ... last I checked an analysis, ALL of those "on the dole" are costing me about $31.00 a week. The losses owing to tax breaks, debt service, tax abatements, DESTINY USA in Syracuse and cleaning up after corporate welfare recipients ... well, that's costing me about $75 a week.
If DISNEY wants an EXCLUSIVE railroad, then let THEM build the damned thing. The TAXPAYERS do not get re-imbursed by the Wal*Mart of amusement parks for their expenses, and it's TRULY getting to be time for corporate America to be "weaned off welfare and off to *WORK*" ... and I *don't mean in Canton, Malay or Calcutta. And before anyone accuses me of being an "L-word," rest assured that I *am* a corporation and WORK for a living. I'm getting REAL tired of giving it up to Disney, Pyramid Corp, Halliburton or GE ... they can *ALL* pay their taxes like GOOD corporate citizens just like *I* have to. And the *SAME* rate as *I* have to ... that'd be nice too. :(
But GEEZ ... Florida citizens and taxpayers want to build a railroad and DISNEY wants to HIJACK IT? Imagine what would happen if a CITIZEN stuck a gun in the taxpayers face like that?!?! And HEY! Rush LIMBAUGH is a TAXPAYER in Florida ... any word from him? Or is he too busy trying to score? :)
I was mad at the disney only route though, they're ignoring the second largest convention center there is, but it does guarentee riders.
And Busch(owner of seaworld and adventure island(i think unless they sold it), you know how big they are. They fund my old college.
Now if only Orlando built the LRT they had funding for and was to be completed in 1999 I think. Though there's the less known bus routes that go between Disney and I-drive anyway.
I wonder when Holy Land will join in the fight, hahahahaha.
Metrorail and Metromover trains running in the early-morning hours could be eliminated because ridership is lower than expected, and costs are higher.
For nearly a year, Metrorail and Metromover have been running 24 hours a day, seven days a week -- providing expanded overnight service as part of the People's Transportation Plan approved by voters to overhaul Miami-Dade's transit system.
That overnight service may end April 25.
Transit managers will ask county commissioners on Tuesday to eliminate the service between 1 and 5 a.m.
''We have very little ridership and the costs are very high,'' said Miami-Dade Transit spokesman Manny Palmeiro.
As a substitute, the transit system wants to add 13 buses to routes that parallel the Metrorail and Metromover lines to accommodate those early-morning riders.
Transit officials had hoped visitors, clubgoers and people on overnight shifts, such as hospital and service industry workers, would take advantage of the extended rail hours, which began in June 2003. But trains don't travel near many of the tourist attractions or clubs.
According to MDT officials, those extra four hours only netted an additional 250 passengers a day across the entire county. That is far fewer than the 10 percent increase, or 5,000 additional passengers, that transit officials had hoped for.
And the cost of operating trains during those hours was far higher than expected. Former Transportation Director Danny Alvarez said last year that the addition of the trains would cost about $700,000 a year. But a recent MDT study said the annual cost was $3.3 million.
''It jumped because of the security necessary on the 17 stations we were serving,'' Palmeiro said. Asked if MDT took security into account when it implemented the program, Palmeiro said, ``Apparently not.''
When the plan went into effect last year, transit officials touted its importance to service industry workers.
Caleen DeSilva is probably the type of person they were targeting. But the South Miami Hospital worker does not have to be at work until 7 a.m. each day from her Cutler Ridge home.
She uses Metrorail, but usually not before 6:15 a.m. Asked if she ever used the system before 5 a.m., she said, ``I don't like to be out on the street at that hour.''
South Miami Hospital spokeswoman Martha Martin-Allen said there's no shift at her hospital that would require anyone to ride the train that early -- or that late. A Jackson Memorial Hospital spokesperson also could not locate anyone.
------------
If the early-morning service is eliminated, it will mark the sixth time the commission has changed an item in the People's Transportation Plan since it went into effect 18 months ago.
The plan is a blueprint for spending an estimated $17.9 billion likely to be generated by a half-cent sales tax approved by voters in 2002.
--------------------
That overnight service may end April 25. "
It's official, my friend is an MDT bus driver and we got the word when he did his pick. The replacement bus will be line 500. Incidentally, the bus will not enter all of the Metrorail stations but will stop on parallel streets, mainly because MDT doesn't want to pay for the overnight security guards that were required for the 24/7 Metrorail service.
1am is an interesting time to shut down, bars don't close until 3am in area's down there right? Or is that just the tourist spot?
But like the article said, if you work early morning or 3rd shift, you would be at work during the period of being shut-down, it would still be running on during the commute.
Please read the list and the reply instructions below.
NOTE: Because the phrases, "ladies and gentlemen," "please," and "for your safety" are used in a lot of these, they have been abbreviated in this list as "L&G," "pls," and "FYS," respectively.
LIST
* L&G, we apologize for the unavoidable delay.
* L&G, we are being held momentarily by the train's dispatcher. Please be patient.
* L&G, in order to provide the best possible service to all our customers, we are waiting for connecting passengers on an arriving train.
* L&G, FYS, pls do not hold car doors open while the train is in the station.
* L&G, FYS, pls do not lean against the doors.
* L&G, FYS, pls do not ride or walk between subway cars while the train is in motion.
* L&G, this is the last stop on this train. Everyone pls leave the train.
* L&G, thank you for riding with MTA New York City Transit.
There may be more. Please refer to the reply instructions below if you have heard one that is not on this list.
REPLY INSTRUCTIONS
If you have an answer to the above question, please reply with the subject, "Re: Announcements on the R143."
If you have an addition to the list above, please reply with the subject, "Re: Announcements on the R142."
If you have a general comment on the above which is neither an answer to the question nor an addition to the list, please reply with the subject, "Re: Announcements on the R142 & R143."
Please follow these instructions, so that the general SubTalk community may know what type of information is in your subsequent replies to this message. Thank you.
also "The electronic strip maps are now in service, please watch the displays and listen to the announcements for information" (that should be pretty close to it - nothing was displayed on the screen).
"Ladies and gentlemen, we apologize for the unavoidable delay."
There were alot of people with their bikes on Metro today. One other person wiht a bike got on my train at DuPont Circle and rode to Cleveland Park and 5 (yes, five) people got off a train from Shady Grove at Cleveland Park and were waiting to take their bikes up the elevator.
Don't anger the spirits, they don't like what is going on here...
Still, as Oren and I discussed previously, we had no idea that CAFs and original Bredas could be run together. CAFs and rehabbed Bredas, yes, but not the original Bredas.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
The NYW&B wouldn't have been considered overbuilt if, as planned, it had run all the way to Boston.
That trunk line aspect of the NYW&B had the same problem with the NY&N. The promoters were hoping for that great trunk line to fall out of the sky on them. The NY Central / Boston & Albany route was well established and already upgraded to the most current steam RR technology. The New Haven Shore Line route was the most direct and was already an electrified high-speed line to New Haven.
The NY&N began 50 years before the NYW&B was thought of. Only the final years of the iron ore deposits made the line profitable and useful. After that, the northern part of the line was only an alternative route to Brewster. One item in that line's favor was that they did not have to put the parent RR into receivership due to the cost of overbuilding the line. As I stated in previous post, the real loss was the inability of the NY&N and NY City to capitalize on the interurban el connection at 155th St. But, again, it was probably out of their hands, due to the politics and antics of the bankers and wheeler-dealers of the era.
The New Haven passed on their interurban el link also. They even passed on that opportunity with the NYW&B. A lesser built NYW&B interurban running out the Boston Post Road to New Rochelle and the shorline communities all the way to the NY State line to connect with the New England interurban lines would have made use of the capital the NH expended to acquire those New England street and interurban lines. The NTW&B could have pre-empted the NYC transit line plans and maybe have been incorporated in the line when it was built. For example, the IRT route out White Plains Road was already occupied by one of the pre-TARS lines, the Union Electric, I believe. It was already running half way to White Plains. It seems strange, that as actual interurban lines were springing up all over the US at that time, that critical NYC/Westchester connection to the New England and lower NY State interurban lines never materialized. I should have stated this aspect in the previous post. I am compiling this data for a more complete paper on the subject of the missing NYC Area Interurban Era links.
Although the NYW&B was conceived as a trunk line RR, it turned out to be an overbuilt interurban line. The NYW&B looked like an attempt to build the Eastern part of the "Fabled" NY Chicago Electric (interurban) Air Line that only got as far as Hobart, Indiana, which is not very far from Chicago.
Don't get me wrong, Robert Moses caused great changes in NYC, but he was no friend of rail transit.
Your pal,
Fred
Larry,RedbirdR33
True, and in a sense it helped pave the way for the Beame Shuffle in the 1970's.
(True, and in a sense it helped pave the way for the Beame Shuffle in the 1970's.)
Pataki, Bruno, Silver shuffle? After all the debt run up in the 2000-04 capital plan, I'm afraid. Why all the debt? To reduce fares (with the discounts) and keep them down, and cut off tax dollars to the capital plan. Pataki's folks got paid, Giuliani's folks got paid, and -- though the don't talk about it -- the Strappie interest (low fares) got paid. Now we pay.
One good thing about the present situation is that the fleet and infrastructure is in relatively decent shape. As a result, deferring maintenance won't immediately result in significant deterioration. That will change, of course, if maintenance is deferred long enough, but at least there won't be an immediate crisis.
The BoT was a disaster, but perhaps there was no greater disaster when the city allowed its transit system to be taken away by ROCKEFELLER and the MTA and put into the control of the surrounding suburbs and the state. Now a repository for overpriced political hacks (and their sponsors) as well as Al D'Amato and his "parade'o'vendors" the chances of anything meaningful to *CITY* residents is off the table.
OH so many political screwups, I never run out of something to type about. :)
2. Beginning the SAS during a city defecit, and purchasing the R44s
3. The 1960s-80s
I almost never vote for bond issues, no matter how much I like the projects they're supposed to fund. I think raising taxes now is better than paying for the project plus interest. Bond issues are a way of saddling future generations with the bills. I also believe a bond issue that passed was supposed to pay for the Second Ave subway (or some other subway?) at some point but got diverted, so one can't necessarily believe the politicians.
Vince
Yes, particularly given what he did with that power.
Most of Moses's bridges expressways should have been built 25 feet wider, with a two-track train ROW (or space for one) in the middle. Given that he was obliterating entire neighborhoods, the space required for the tracks would have been negligible. It's not as if no one thought of this. Moses was urged to allow space for trains, and refused. One-seat rail service to JFK and LGA would have been trivial, and indeed we'd have had it long ago, were it not for this mistake. There would have been rail service to Staten Island--Moses built the Verrazano Bridge instead.
An honorable mention no one else has been brought up: The H&M wanted to extend the PATH north to Grand Central, but the city wouldn't approve the project. There would have been a one-seat ride from GCT to the west side, all the way down to the Village.
Honestly, if I wanted to pick one really HUGE blunder outside of the NYC subway system, I'd say the destruction of the old Pennsylvania Station building in 1963-54.
Opens this summer. Looks intersting. But check out those prices, that's definately not for commuters!
But an extenstion to McCarren would be great.
Your pal,
Fred
And while on the topic of MGM Grand (but a bit off topic here), when I first went to Las Vegas in the late 90's there was a theme park behind MGM Grand. I don't think it's there anymore. What ever happened to it?
The new monorail system was paid for, in part, by the various casino properties it serves, along with the County of Clark, City of Las Vegas, etc. MGM/Ball's "payment" was to turn over their original line section (plus some $$$).
As for the amusement park that was part of the MGM property, it never did draw any sizeable attendance, mainly because nobody could find the damn thing. Getting to its entrance was like trying to find one's way out of a maze, the way the walkways and tunnels to it under parts of MGM were laid out. It used to be fre admission, and one would pay for rides actually used. Then some bright individual at MGM decided tostart charging admission, and what little attendance they had, dwindled even more -- without the free-admission folks walking around and patronizing the shops/concessions out there, no revenue came in.
Most of the streets in Las Vegas are pretty decent though...the only problem is that you have to be careful driving as markings are less than optimum. Many places, the lane you're in all of a sudden becomes a left- or right-turn only lane, with NO warning whatsoever, and the traffic is so bad, you're stuck in it.
As far as turn lanes with no warning, it would be nice if some city would pioneer decent signage here.
As Jeff W says, though, the roads are a pain in the ass when they use the dots INSTEAD of painted lines. When it's raining, it's impossible to see the dots, you just feel them. It'smuch better if the Botts Dots ARE used, use paint too!
It is a horizontal elevator. It runs on a concrete roadbed, with wheels like a bus and is drawn back and forth by a cable.
Another such mis-nomer is out at the California-Nevada state line, between Prima Donna and Buffalo Bill's casinos. They call it a monorail, the carbodies are styled like the Sydney Harbor monorail in Australia....but it actually runs on TWO rails, the old ties/rail trackway for the fake steam trains they used to have there. And, they also have a horizontal elevator running across the freeway to Whiskey Pete's.
Mark
Maybe someone will get the message!
Looks like 59th St, and with the level of crud on the window, I'd say it was an N train?
Chuck Greene
Ben F. Schumin :-)
I think this pic is a phony!
If not, that message is pretty funny.
"PLEASE STOP SCRATCHING THE WINDOWS, OR YOU'LL BE DEAD MEAT."
#3 West End Jeff
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
#3 West End Jeff
No, they shouldn't.
I certainly don't think so. That is WAY to extreme. For one thing, by time a kid is 14 or so, he most definitely is starting to shave. Girls are also starting to shave their legs. Most of the scratches on the windows are not done with "razor blades". It doesn't take much to scratch a window on the subway. On the plexiglass ones, a quarter may even do. Yeah, let's keep quarters out of the reach of those under 18.
American Pig wrote:
What about all of the adults stabbing each other with hunting knives or other pocket knives? Maybe we should just ban all knives.
Or what about the fact that a small but not insignificant percentage of homicides involve no weapons at all?
#3 West End Jeff
Explain how this prevents scratchitti.
#3 West End Jeff
Maybe limiting the rights of teenagers to buy razors will reduce scratchitti, but it's the WRONG to do. In order to solve a relatively minor problem, you intend to restrict further the rights of a group that already has incredibly limited rights. And the politicians who would pass the law you propose don't have to answer to the people whom they oppress because children and teenagers don't have the right to vote.
If it was found that black people were responsible for 100% of all scratchitti, would you advocate that it become illegal to sell razors to people with dark skin? I'm sure you wouldn't. Why is one form of discrimination wrong and another OK? At one time it was believed that black people were biologically inferior and unqualified to have the rights given to white people. At one time, the same was believed true for women. Well respected scientists would use meticulous research to "prove" that non-whites and women were inferior. Fortunately, fields such as phrenology were dismissed as quackery 160 years ago.
Of course you'd say that...you have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter!
Scratchitti is not limited to glass. Kids also scratch the walls and seats.
I think that your idea is a bit off-kilter. Not all scratchitti is done by teenagers, nor by razor blades. Nor is this in any way fair. I remember reading that kids used to kick the windows out on trains. Perhaps we should outlaw kids being allowed to possess feet.
#3 West End Jeff
So why pass one saying that they can't possess razors?
Whenever a problem becomes epidemic, you have to try to find ways to eliminate the problem.
Yes. NYCT has taken such steps. They led to the removal of graffitti. New coatings on windows led to the resistance of graffitti spread.
Graffiti of any form on public property has been a problem since ancient times. Believe it or not, there is ancient graffiti on the Sphinx in Egypt. I can say with some certainti that graffiti has been around since the dawn of civilization.
This is not relevant to what you and I were discussing.
First offense: "Sucks" is stenciled under the tag
Further offenses: Grafitti artists come and write "Sucks," making it look like the tag itself.
Funny stuff!
1. Not all scratchitti artists are kids.
2. This would likely stop no one.
-Ben diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
More seriously, I've often wondered if it would be possible to develop a simple annealing process to remove scratchfitti from windows. In this scheme, you'd put the window between two very hot metal plates, just hot enough to make the glass at the surface of the window flow. The pressure of the metal plates would "recast" the window smooth, eliminating the sratchfitti. Possibly, I'd even make a small 2-peice system that wouldn't require the window to be removed from the car.
Mark
Happy Easter, Passover and Pasca to all.
#3 West End Jeff
Christos aneste.
Late Dec 60-early 1961: One Lo-VT replaces a Steinway Motor on 3rd Avenue El trains. It is believed that this is the first time that Steinway Motors have operated with Lo-V Trailers.
a/o 1/1/61 - Sea Beach trains now run local in Broklyn at night and on Sunday. Through Brighton-Franklin service on Sundays is discontinued.
a/o 1/11/61 IRT Lo-V's 4642,4785 and 5470 transfered to the BMT for use as Alcohol Cars.
a/o 2/1/61 a #15 Jamaica bound express derails on the center track
at Gates Avenue, R-16 6453 is the culprit.
2/24/61- last two R-28's delivered.
3/4/61 Fire on a southbound BMT local at Union Sq slightly damages BMT Standard 2545.
IND Bomb Car 3221 is back in service.
a/o 6/10/61 Standard 2328 was destroyed by a fire a the Coney Island Yard. The remaining two units 2327 and 2329 were coupled as a two car unit and placed in work service.
a/o 7/24/61 R-27 8217 and Standard 2761 were damaged in a collision in the Coney Island Yard.
a/o 8/12 all 230 R-27's have been delivered and also 72 R-30's.
R-14 5837 has been painted orange and blue with white ceiling and gray floor. (Interior only)
a/o September 6 all MUltis are out of service. Units 7021-7022 were seen in service the day before on the # 10 Myrtle Av-Chambers St Line.
a/o 9/12/61 a total of 360 R-27 and R-30 cars have been delivered.
LABOR DAY WEEKEND: Sep 1-4, Broadway Bridge over the Harlem River is replaced by a new one. IRT #1 trains operate between 215 St and South Ferry with a shuttle on the southbound track between 242 Street and 225 Street and bus service in between. This is the third Broadway Bridge. The original Broadway Bridge is still in service today (2004) as the University Heights Bridge.
a/o 9/7/61 IND Car Assignments
207 Street-WH 1803-1852,3000-3349
168 Street-WH 1340-1489, also 103 and 1575
205 St-Concourse 100-251 (x 103), 815-1339
Queens- 252-814 and 1490-1802 (x1575)
Automatic train 7509-7513-7516 is now in service on track 4 of the 42 Street Shuttle.
a/o Nov 1961- SBK Steeplecab locos have had their trolley poles removed.BMT rebuilt trailer 4036 is to be turned over to SBK for use as a yard office. (Was this ever done?)
11/17/61 PRR train 3931 is the last train to leave the Exchange Place Terminal.
Larry,RedbirdR33
a.o 4/15/61 170 R-27's have been delivered.
They replaced a bridge over a weekend in 1961? But it took them 22 years to repair the Manhattan Bridge from 1982 to 2002?
The OLD bridge had a barge placed under it while the NEW bridge was constructed around and on TOP of it, old bridge cut and floated away, new bridge floated in and cabled up, voila!
The ENTIRE story is DOCUMENTED!!!
Click HERE to SEE it yourself! (thanks go out as always to PALTER.ORG for the treats!
http://www.palter.org/~subway/broadway-bridge.html
That's quite an amazing feat, figuring in river currents and tide heights.
Bill "Newkirk"
Could you go back in time to August 29, 1957 ? That's the day of the "Zerega Ave. wreck" on the Pelham Line. I asked around, but no one knows much about it. Definitely a train of R-17's was involved, but what did they crash into? (Low-V's) ? I know it wasn't R-17's.
The operating cab of the R-17 (#6673) was cut open to remove the body of the motorman. I'm not sure if he made it or not. Know anything about this wreck ?
Bill "Newkirk"
I located the New York Times article of the incident (PDF file). Send me an email and I will attach it in the reply.
The operating cab of the R-17 (#6673) was cut open to remove the body of the motorman. I'm not sure if he made it or not. Know anything about this wreck ?
Bill: The only reference I have is from the May 1959 Edition of the Bulletin. It states that damaged subway cars 6673 and 6786 are to be scrapped.Hopefully T Broadway-West End'slink will provide more information.
Larry,RedbirdR33
No, it's not. CBTC is not ATO. Why are they so often confused?
I do expect better from the SubTalkers posting in this thread. Perhaps I should lower my expectations.
But since I started the thread, I can only assume that I am included in the SubTalkers group you mention.
That said,
Number 1: You don't know me.
Number 2: The nasty tone is not appreciated.
Number 3: I am sorry if I am not up to date on train terms as you are. I am a simple train buff. This is not my career or livelihood. It is a hobby of mine.
Number 4: If the term chosen was a mistake, a simple correction to the oversight is more than enough. I was going to respond to your original post to thank you for pointing out the difference.
Then I read this email. I work in computer tech support, and I never talk down to people for mistaking RAM for hard drive space or when they mix up Windows 2000 for Word 2000. I simply point out the difference to them. I don't talk down to them because doing so will get me reprimanded. I do it out of respect.
Number 5: I was simply posting an article I found in the NYC papers. I do this on a regular basis as a contribution so that fellow subtalkers have some conversation material. Since I assumed what they were speaking about in the article was automatic operation, that is the title of the thread I chose. I obviously do not know that there are different terms to define how trains operate.
Number 6: Have a good day and a Happy Holiday.
I do expect better from the SubTalkers posting in this thread. Perhaps I should lower my expectations."
The article said that the T/O would just sit there and watch. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that the article meant ATO even if it didn't say so. The article could easily be wrong, but Subtalkers weren't wrong in interpreting the article as implying ATO.
Obviously, some source in the MTA told a Post reporter that it's going ATO as well as CBTC. This may of course be the same well informed source who told the Post the V was being extended to Church Ave.
(1) What is the MAS on the North Side tunnels coming into Penn?
(2) Is it possible to coast into Penn while observing the MAS in the tunnel?
(3) Is it possible to coast into Penn without observing the MAS in the tunnel?
The consist used on that trip was the standard NEDirect consist: 7 or 8 Amfleets with a lone AEM-7
AEM7
Linespeed from the Hellgate Br. through HAROLD and through the East River tubes is 60mph with some exceptions here and there including the diverging move made entering HAROLD (my ETT is at school so I can get specific details tomorrow if you need them). The big problem with this story is that you enter JO interlocking no faster than 15mph. When you enter JO most of your train will still be on the grade in the tunnel so it seems unlikley that this story is true. If might be possible for a train to come rocketing off the HGB and through HAROLD and through the tubes into Penn as trains can build up lots of momentum, but it would never in a million years by authorized.
So the train would have needed to be going 40 mph at the depth of the tunnel (assuming it's a 60' climb out of the tunnel), which is a lot.
I'm going to guess it was the HEP that went out, but the traction motors were just fine.
The crew announced on the PA: we've lost power in the engine, and we're going to coast into Penn Station. The HEP was out. This buddy used to work for Conrail, so he knows rail operations. He said the train was going thru the tunnel way faster than he expected. But he didn't know how fast they were going. The crew could have lied, or the power might have come back on at the last minute, just as they hit the climb.
AEM7
Agreed. My point was that even if everything were perfect you'd need the vehicle to be going 40 mph at its low point, which isn't likely. It's even less likely given friction, Mike's point about the 15 mph limit as you enter the station while much of the train is still on the incline, and any speed limits in harold interlocking.
AEM7's are electrics. No diesel involved.
As Todd posted, it was probably the HEP that failed.
Michael
Washington,DC
No diverging movement is possible. Let's suppose they managed to get though Hell Gate and then past the interlocking there with power (what is it called, CP-SHELL or something?) OK so now you have the train basically past Hell Gate and travelling at whatever the reasonable exit speed is for the interlocking (15mph, probably, if diverging routes were involved; 50mph if no diverging routes were involved). Then you lose power. Can you coast from there to Penn Station (with or without ignoring the MAS)?
Where is JO tower, and what are the speed limits there, and assuming a clear path through JO tower can you coast into the station?
Dutchrailnut, thanks for your response. Now I am just trying to figure out to what extent this is possible.
AEM7
This is very interesting. So the procedure for a power loss would be to stop the train and contact the dispatcher? Or is this something specific to the tunnels? Let's say this was diesel territory out in the middle of nowhere in the Midwest; the engineer discovers that his prime mover has shutdown due to overload or overheat or whatever. So it's a temporary condition that may be fixed by a reset. He also realizes that he is about 5 miles from a major station like Cleveland or Pittsburgh. Would he then be at liberty to coast into the station (assuming he could make it), or at least coast as far as he can, or does he have to bring the train to a safe stop as soon as possible, then call for assistance?
I realize this might just be a tunnel thing. Trying to search for a train in a tunnel while running wrong-rail and not knowing precisely where the train is stopped is no fun. So I agree with you that a train without engine power would probably be stopped at HAROLD. In other words the crew was either lying or they had managed to "reset" their locomotive before they entered the tunnel.
AEM7
1] The stations on the RL and the HBLR are built for 2 car trains, but the NCS stations are built for only 1 car. The subway stations in downtown Newark are walled up to hold only 1 car. I know the RL runs 2-car trains, but I ask, do the HBLR runs 2 car trains?
2] On the HBLR, the cars run entirely TOO SLOW from Hoboken to Liberty State Park. That's a huge slow zone. I know the line runs through a dense area, but I think the cars can run a little faster through this area. The RL cars runs like turtles through Camden from the Rand Transit Center to Waterfront Entertainment Center, and have 2 other "slow" zones in Palmyra and Riverton, and through Burlington City. The NCS cars makes like snails from Branch Brook Park to Grove St.
3] It seems that the stations [particularly on the RL and HBLR] tend to be a standard design with variations according to each route. The older NCS stations need a lot more work to make them look up to date [except Orange St, Branch Brook, Grove St, and Silver Lake which are recent builds/re-builds.].
4] Finally, the rolling stock. The RL diesel LRT cars tend to be more inviting and comfortable and accesible. The HBLR/NCS cars look more cramped, and why there is that step-up in the high portion of the cars? Also can the NCS/HBLR cars accomondate bicycles like the RL cars? The seats are appropriate for each group of cars, with the harder seats on the NCS/HBLR cars, and the high-backed seats on the RL [for the longer distances the line travels], but the RL seats can be a little more softer. They tend to feel a little hard for the type of seats they are, they should make the seats a liitle more like the seats on the MCI buses.
Now that the NJ LRT tour is over, I will plan my next rail-transit feat: The Philadelphia Gauntlet. This will entail riding every type of rail-transit vehichle in the Philadelphia area on SEPTA, NJT, and PATCO in a single day. Details will be coming soon.
1. I don't know if two car trains are ever the norm, but I have seen them operating prior to the line's opening (test service). I've only ridden the line on weekends, when one car trains are sufficient.
2. During the week there is a lot more pedestrian and vehicular traffic in that area, so the speed is probably justified. The curves are pretty sharp too.
3. Agreed to a point... personally, I'd rather the older NCS stations be spruced up and future renovations be based on the older style, not the newer one.
4. The step-up portion is because the power trucks are under that portion of the car. Imagine that you had the entire center section of the RL cars packed under the floor instead - that's where it would go. I haven't ridden the RL so I can't contrast them any further. I don't believe bicycles are permitted on the HBLR or NCS; there doesn't seem to be enough room in the cars anyway, without significantly impacting other passengers.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
HBLR and NCS do not run 2 car trains, but HBLR and NCS run at 6-10 minute headways. HBLR also has the Bayonne Flyer, which is an "express" service skipping several stops that runs during rush hours.
2] On the HBLR, the cars run entirely TOO SLOW from Hoboken to Liberty State Park. That's a huge slow zone. I know the line runs through a dense area, but I think the cars can run a little faster through this area. The RL cars runs like turtles through Camden from the Rand Transit Center to Waterfront Entertainment Center, and have 2 other "slow" zones in Palmyra and Riverton, and through Burlington City. The NCS cars makes like snails from Branch Brook Park to Grove St.
The slow running parts of HBLR are the line's achille's heel. IMHO, it's a little better now than what it used to be, but it's still too slow. There should have been an overpass over Communipaw Avenue at the Liberty State Park station. The slow running sections in downtown Jersey City are barely acceptable since there is no cabsignaling in that area, but the stretch between LSP and Jersey Avenue is inexcusably slow, especially since it runs thru wasteland along the NJTP. I'd love to know why that section is so slow, especially since the line is cab signaled in that area.
As for NCS, I haven't been on the line in over a year, but in the two times that I've been on NCS, there have been signal problems causing the train to go emergency. And for some reason, once you leave Branch Brook Park and approach the interlocking with the freight line, it does slow to a crawl. In fact, I've seen the T/Os call command to get a proper signal to proceed after waiting for several minutes at one point.
3] It seems that the stations [particularly on the RL and HBLR] tend to be a standard design with variations according to each route. The older NCS stations need a lot more work to make them look up to date [except Orange St, Branch Brook, Grove St, and Silver Lake which are recent builds/re-builds.].
Remember, the NCS stations date back to the 1930s. BTW, aren't they renovating the underground stations now?
4] Finally, the rolling stock. The RL diesel LRT cars tend to be more inviting and comfortable and accesible. The HBLR/NCS cars look more cramped, and why there is that step-up in the high portion of the cars? Also can the NCS/HBLR cars accomondate bicycles like the RL cars?
There are no bike racks on HBLR or NCS. Also, judging from pictures that I've seen, the River Line cars are wider than Kinki-Sharyos on NCS and HBLR.
They don't run two car trains but it is a possibility. I've seen two cars connected together and there is room on the track for two car trains.
2] On the HBLR, the cars run entirely TOO SLOW from Hoboken to Liberty State Park. That's a huge slow zone. I know the line runs through a dense area, but I think the cars can run a little faster through this area.
Agreed. There is nothing that can be done about this because of the sharp curves and constant construction around the line. The average time it takes to travel from Hoboken to 22nd street (last stop) is under 25 minutes. Having the train rush thought Pavonia might save you 3 to 5 minutes but would be dangerous.
Most people don't remember what it was like to commute from Bayonne to Downtown Jersey City. It required going to Journal Square (25 minute ride) and then taking the Path train to Hoboken (15 to 20 minutes). On weekends, this whole process could easily take over an hour and a half so I don't mind the fact that it takes less than a half an hour today.
3] It seems that the stations [particularly on the RL and HBLR] tend to be a standard design with variations according to each route. The older NCS stations need a lot more work to make them look up to date
The NCS has been abandoned for years. I was shocked upon visiting the system for the first time not long ago on how the system has been allowed to decay over the years.
4] Finally, the rolling stock. The RL diesel LRT cars tend to be more inviting and comfortable and accessible. The HBLR/NCS cars look more cramped, and why there is that step-up in the high portion of the cars? Also can the NCS/HBLR cars accommodate bicycles like the RL cars? The seats are appropriate for each group of cars, with the harder seats on the NCS/HBLR cars, and the high-backed seats on the RL [for the longer distances the line travels], but the RL seats can be a little more softer.
I prefer the electrified cars of the HBLR have more power to expend on air-conditioning which is why they are more comfortable. The RL diesel cars were poorly ventilated which left me with a huge headache.
The RL has better and softer seats. I wish the HBLR and NCS had them.
As for bicycles. You'll see me with my bicycle on the HBLR every weekend. The cars have two areas for wheelchairs and I always make use of one. In fact, you can board with a folding bike during rush hour. I've even seen one youth board during rush hour with a small BMX bicycle but this is the exception.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#3 West End Jeff
:)
#3 West End Jeff
The new terminal will retain a lot of the old elements of the original one but will have some new stuff like the solar panels and full covering of the platforms...
I'm just happy Wal-Mart is leaving CI alone...for now.
Too bad.
#3 West End Jeff
P.S.: With all due respects to John Villanueva, I just couldn't stand the issues with the gallery that could not open the lock file there.
P.P.S.: I do not mean to blast Mr. Villanueva by saying the above.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Noises here and there now drive me nuts,
A month ago a 12-9 by a klutz.
Taking the B isn't always fun,
However, now it does get the job done.
Times Square - The stairs; the ramps; the hallways stink,
But Franklin shows the MTA does think.
But I look forward to r one sixties,
in the best big subway of all cities.
The A, the C, and E use r three twos,
but on the 7, redbirds did now loose.
I wish to go upon the s a s,
something that I truly must now confess.
I just wrote another POS in the meter and foot style of "The Raven," by Edgar Allen Poe. As you can see, my poem sucks. Perhaps this is better: :)
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
"'Tis some visiter," I muttered, "tapping at my chamber door —
Only this, and nothing more."
Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December,
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow; — vainly I had tried to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow — sorrow for the lost Lenore —
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore —
Nameless here for evermore.
And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
Thrilled me — filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating
"'Tis some visiter entreating entrance at my chamber door —
Some late visiter entreating entrance at my chamber door; —
This it is, and nothing more."
Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
"Sir," said I, "or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you " — here I opened wide the door; —
Darkness there and nothing more.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
But the silence was unbroken, and the darkness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, "Lenore!"
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, "Lenore!" —
Merely this, and nothing more.
Then into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon I heard again a tapping somewhat louder than before.
"Surely," said I, "surely that is something at my window lattice;
Let me see, then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore —
Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore;—
'Tis the wind and nothing more!"
Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately raven of the saintly days of yore;
Not the least obeisance made he; not an instant stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door —
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door —
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.
Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
"Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou," I said, "art sure no craven,
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the Nightly shore —
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!"
Quoth the raven "Nevermore."
Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning — little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no sublunary being
Ever yet was blessed with seeing bird above his chamber door —
Bird or beast upon the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
With such name as "Nevermore."
But the raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered — not a feather then he fluttered —
Till I scarcely more than muttered "Other friends have flown before —
On the morrow he will leave me, as my hopes have flown before."
Quoth the raven "Nevermore."
Wondering at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
"Doubtless," said I, "what it utters is its only stock and store
Caught from some unhappy master whom unmerciful Disaster
Followed fast and followed faster so when Hope he would adjure —
Stern Despair returned, instead of the sweet Hope he dared adjure —
That sad answer, "Never — nevermore."
But the raven still beguiling all my sad soul into smiling,
Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird, and bust and door;
Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking
Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore —
What this grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt and ominous bird of yore
Meant in croaking "Nevermore."
This I sat engaged in guessing, but no syllable expressing
To the fowl whose fiery eyes now burned into my bosom's core;
This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion's velvet lining that the lamp-light gloated o'er,
But whose velvet violet lining with the lamp-light gloating o'er,
She shall press, ah, nevermore!
Then, methought, the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by Angels whose faint foot-falls tinkled on the tufted floor.
"Wretch," I cried, "thy God hath lent thee — by these angels he hath sent thee
Respite — respite and nepenthe, from thy memories of Lenore;
Let me quaff this kind nepenthe and forget this lost Lenore!"
Quoth the raven "Nevermore."
"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil! — prophet still, if bird or devil! —
Whether Tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate yet all undaunted, on this desert land enchanted —
On this home by Horror haunted — tell me truly, I implore —
Is there — is there balm in Gilead? — tell me — tell me, I implore!"
Quoth the raven "Nevermore."
"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil — prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that Heaven that bends above us — by that God we both adore —
Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels name Lenore —
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore."
Quoth the raven "Nevermore."
"Be that word our sign in parting, bird or fiend!" I shrieked, upstarting —
"Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken! — quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!"
Quoth the raven "Nevermore."
And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted — nevermore!
-The End—
It must have been quite a struggle to make that rhyme. Don't strain yourself!
It is so fkn late right now
I feel i could go faint.
This post is just so damn low brow
I deserve not to be a saint (nor could I...matzah is strewn about my cabinet :) )
I think from now on, every post I have will include poetic prose of some kind.
I will be hosting the Greenies soon.
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
They teach Shakespeare in sophomore year now? I bet freshman year was all mythology in English...right?
Was yelling at kids for no reason and didn't let us do anything.
But what really fried me is, the damn enunciator-thingies were beeping at 7th Avenue for the express whenever a G train approached.
Run them in service, on the express, S/B 4th Ave to Church, so there's no delaying the F at Smith/9th, behind a G being cleaned out. They can be cleaned out at Church, on B3 trk. It doesn't take much for a F to be delayed by W/E GO's, and be put behing the G at Bergen, only to wait while that G gets emptied out.
They could've either ran less trains and shortened the layup time, or run the same amount of trains and increase the layup time.
They chose the latter.
Because there's no way to turn them off.
I guess MSN decided to take action against remote images. Unlike TriPod which you get that nice little error icon, MSN felt it was better to just break the link.
Found this old sign at 7 Avenue:
G trains to Smith/9th discharge there and relay on the CI bound express track at 4th ave. They go back in service at Smith/9th. So they do not actually serve 4th ave.
Seriously nice photos but what is with the second G on the Manhattan-bound express track, a put in?
From the 12s
to the els.
From the 22s
to the 62s.
What is the prime division of the three?
No it ain't the IND, no it ain't the BMT.
None other than the IRT.
The 62s are the deans of the IRT fleet.
They be a bit young, but what the heck?
It seems like a treat
to be the captain of the deck.
Then we have the 142s.
They receive their yays,
but some of the op's are boos.
They have their ways.
They look very good.
(BTW)A subway car is not made of wood.
They are both made of stainless steel.
(Just don't get caught behind the wheel)
They both have their unique spiels,
The R62 being a rumbler deal.
The R142 is a high-pitched squeal.
The 142s and the 62s
receive their yays and boos.
All in all,
they'll never fall.
They are both great cars,
something you'd never find on Mars.
This poem was arranged and typed by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn.
I hope you like it. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=689264
-Chris
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
R62A#1670 with marble flooring,they say that all the R62A cars are getting this flooring.i don't know if that is true,but it does look nice for the R62A.
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Click Here
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Are there plans to bring back the old tile as part of station rebuilding along the 4th Av line in the 2005-2009 MTA Capital Program.
Start the fun with your ideas, before asking use.
Or aren't you creatve?
Start the fun with your ideas, before asking us.
Or aren't you creatve?
B- 4 av-west end express, to Bay Parkway, Weekdays
W- 4av /bdwy/montague local/ from astoria to stillwell coney island all times. late nites between 57/7 to coney island
There are thousands of people who'd rather use the tunnel instead of crowded 33rd street each way.
I know of no plans to reopen it -- why not go on the MTA feedback page and make a request?
David
Bill "Newkirk"
I'd like to see a moving sidewalk on the 42nd Street connection from 8th Avenue to Times Square. And it would also be a good idea as part of the Fulton Street transfer connections for downtown.
I've never been able to understand New York's reluctance to put in moving sidewalks. Airports like San Francisco and Newark have had them for years. (Curiously, the one in Toronto connecting the Spadina stations has been shut down indefinitely, I've heard. I may check it next weekend when I'm there.)
I suppose it's part of the general disdain for people on foot--like the refusal to put opposite-direction bus lanes on the one-way avenues.
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
I'd guess they were shamed into putting it in because of what they were doing to the Crosstown riders.
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
But I agree the passage should be re-opened. Gimbels is now a mall, so what's on the other side of the wall? Could it be stores? If so, there might be enough activity to prevent the passageway from becoming a dorm and unrinal, after all the walkways at Rockefeller Center aren't. Perhaps the passageway could be conveyed to private owners, with an easement requiring it to be open during certain hours -- excluding overnight.
The passageway is already owned by the private landlords.
It NEVER was city property.
It would take an agreement between the city and the owners to reopen it. Obviously the owners do not want to be responsible for the costs of maintaining, patroling and repairing said tunnel. The city does not appear to be interested in the expense either.
Elias
I have never been through these new passageways. What can you tell me about them?
According to my understanding, they are 100% inside the private buildings, and have little or nothing to do with NYCT.
Are they patrolled or cleaned by the city?
Sure a landlord *could* reopen the 33rd Street Passage, but it is not really an intergal part of his building, and is not worth it to him to provide this service to anybody.
That is how I see it, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
Elias
33st is not NYCT either, and it shouldn't be any less worth the connecting of the two 49th St. buildings. (They could have built them for entrances for tenants only with no through access).
The connection to Penn station with its shops, would in effect join the mall and its stores to it. (it would essentially be an extension of the Penn Station concourse). That would benefit the tenants. People passing through on trains would be more likely to continue on an indoor access, than go up to the street.
Canadian consulate.
There's only enough room to have one moving sidewalk, moving in one direction. Of course the direction can be switched. But given the largely bi-directional nature of the foot traffic in that passageway at all times, it would be very difficult to decide on directions and times.
Would it be possible to widen it if there wouldn't be enough room for two moving sidewalks? Those sidewalks come in different widths, too, so maybe there's a possibility there.
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
I've gotta see it sometime.
Perhaps, but so was Penn Station itself. The station has greatly improved from 20 years ago. The passageway would be beneficial to many people if it still was opened. If it was cleaned up, and made to look like the rest of the renovations at Penn Station, it could work. Penn Station is not the same pit it was 20 years ago where you tripped over homeless people everywhere in the station, not just that passageway.
Significant progress in dealing with the skell problem requires changing the laws governing civil commitments to make the process much easier than it is now. I'm not sure there's enough political will to make these changes, or if they would survive civil rights challenges in federal court. In any event, a much-streamlined civil commitment process might be a decidedly mixed blessing; sure, the skells might be gone from the trains and the streets, but the potential for abuse would be considerable.
Peace,
ANDEE
But conditions have improved considerably over the past twenty years, and perhaps there is a way to re-open that passageway and make it safe.
A Vault Space is space under the sidewalk extending to the street (more or less) and was property of the building owners. It allowed access for goods (and coal) to the building basements. You will see sidewalk elevators popping up from the vault, you will also frequently see stairways that allow goods to be slid down ramps into the basements. Seldom now will you actually see a coal chute, but that *was* the original purpose of the vault, and the coal was usually stored in the vault. No point in moving that stuff around more than you had to, eh?
So, headded south from Penn Station, you made a sharp right turn and up a few steps (this placed you under the sidewalk~~ There would have been a barber shop right in front of you) and then another sharp left turn to put you into the tunnel proper. It had to be a narrow tunnel, because it was, as I have said under the sidewalk.
Now, as you know, Gimbles has been defunkt for many many years, and while the first tenant in that building after Gimbles tried to keep it open, it was a loosing proposition. Neither the City nor the Transit Authority would take it over, and the landlord could not or would not or in any event did not want to take responsibility for said tunnel, it had to be closed.
Unless some thriving enterprise should take over that building, and that that tunnel would enhance it's retail enevours, then the answer is that it will NEVER be reopened.
Elias
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Elias
(Sunovabitches... never got to see Penn...)
At best, that old passage would be used as part of a basement for storage now, unlikely to ever be reopened to the public again. If nothing else, think of the liability!
I don't know the original purpose of the private 33rd St corridor, except perhaps to draw folks from Penn Sta. to Gimbles or the H&M (it used to end on the H&M level). For it to be reopened on private RoW then the private owners would need some sort of incentive from the public sector for the public access. I don't know what that would be because I don't see any future major changes for either building.
by the way, as I remember the passage from the 1970s, it was fairly narrow (varing at 10 feet or so) and menacing, with white tiled columns jutting out along the walls that some homeless would sit by, and otherwise blocked one vision about whether someone might be waiting for you behind it.
-Chris
Bill "Newkirk"
The HTML Police , Subtalk Division. :-)
Metal ones, with eight wheels on the bottom.
Try perusing this website. The answers are here.
Bill "Newkirk"
YOU IDIOT! LOOK OVER HERE! CHECK NYCSUBWAY.ORG FOR ANSWERS BEFORE YOU ASK THE TALKS!!!!! NYCSUBWAY.ORG HAS A LOT MORE INFORMATION THAN SUBTALK AND BUSTALK! THANK YOU FOR READING MY THIRD SCROLLING MESSAGE, CDTA!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
<marquee>Scrollimg message goes here</marquee>
Dont worry about size & color.
-Chris
til next time
JV
Thanks,
Steven
A native of Brooklyn,NY
R12: September 1981
R14-R15: November 1984
R17: February 1988
R21/22: December 1987
R26/28/29: 2001-2002
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
CDTA - Welcome to Subtalk University. Read the material first, then prepare to talk about it. Otherwise your fellow students will make fun of you not reading the material first.
Phil Hom
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4teaintowoodlawn)
Sorry. I meant to say 4traintowoodlawn.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
more photos to come.
til next time
Which MOD trip was that anyway?
til next time
;)
Besides, it's difficult to debate a moving target.
Chuck Greene
And, I might add, not all of us use Internet ExploderExplorer either...
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Internet Exploder explodes a lot less than Netscape, Mozilla, or Opera, as long as you disable all ActiveX, Java, and annoying add-ins like ieSpell. Compared to equivalent Netscape/Mozilla configurations (with everything disabled), IE is significantly more stable and uses less memory.
AEM7
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Try not to install some VB components and use IE, you get an install dialog every 2 minutes.
You can actually turn all that off; you just won't be able to see some webpages. But since all I use it for is for sites like this that doesn't require complex client functionality, it's no loss to me if www.britnayspears.com won't load.
AEM7
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Besides a little error in largely meaningless... It is the big whoppers a la factual that should be checked before the message is consigned to eternity with the click of the Post Message Button.
I'll make a guess at 1,600-3,200 times a day.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
* There are 5 lines that use the G4 cars (2, 4, 5, 6, and L)
* All lines use these cars 24 hours a day
* The 2 and 4 run local during the overnights, so there are more times per trip than during other times of the day.
* There are well over 150 trips in each direction on each line per day.
The total answer is in the tens of thousands, that's for sure. The 2 and 4 alone have over 25,000 total.
What a beautiful station!
Once at 30 Street, the first thing I did was buy 6 tokens (I was NOT going to pay the $2.00 base fare and look foolish, although I did see a good plenty people doing so during my travels). My original intention was to ride a bus, but when I got frustrated looking around for the one I wanted, I decided to descend into the Market-Frankford line, originally heading for the high speed line, but abruptly changing to ride the trolley. The first one that came was the 36 to Eastwick, and that is what I got on: #9052. It was a medium-paced ride down the rails and the streets (isn’t it nice to force cars to wait behind you?) to Eastwick and 80 Street, at Penrose Plaza. There, I got off, and immediately got on a trolley going back to Center City: #9093. (I looked at the schedule, and either it was just me, or it seemed as though the 36 was running tighter than 6 minute headways! The better for me!)
This is what the inside of my trolley looked like:
Once I got back to 30 Street, I then got on the westbound Market-Frankford train to 69 Street, on ADTranz car #1043. (Some of these cars are not looking too good, how old are they again, 7 or 8 years?) However, I had to like the railfan view, similar to that on the PATCO, except in reverse. Once I got to 69 Street, I then boarded the 100 line to Bryn Mawr (N-5 141, express to Norristown).
I reversed direction at Bryn Mawr, taking a local back (N-5 145) to 69 Street. There, I was intending to ride the 65, but all I saw were 416 (model) buses out of nearby Callowhill, and no artics out of Allegheny (I had seen 7202 there earlier), and so I got back on the Market-Frankford. I did see a K-car though!
I rode this to 8 Street, at a railfan seat on ADTranz car #1100, forgetting that the transfer between the Broad-Ridge spur and the Market-Frankford is not free. However, this was mitigated by the fact that the train was an express to Olney The car was Kawasaki B-IV 691.
I was caught running down the platform at 8th Street because I had walked forward, not aware that the train was only two cars. There, I got off, walked to street level, and saw a heaven of buses (pictures will be posted this weekend on BusTalk, as well as some of my sights there, as that is off topic for this board.) My final leg in Philadelphia was my lone bus ride of the day (mentioned to maintain continuity), NABI 416 5242 on Route C. This bus was running late because of several wheelchair passengers using this bus, and was overtaken by 5195. This ride was rather good, especially through Temple University areas, albeit a little crowded.
When my C bus arrived at the end of its run, I then made my way over to the magnificent-looking Suburban Station. (If you have not been to Philly, that building is a dream! Philly locals already know about this great Art Deco structure, possibly the former home of SEPTA Railroad Division’s predecessor, the Pennsylvania R. R. (?))
I had a wait for the 7:19 R7 train at Suburban, car #424, and then a quick transfer to another NEC Arrow III MU, car #1366 initallly, and then #1486. (Actually, I had gotten on in #1366, because the first two cars were closed initially, but when the train reached Edison, seven sexy girls had gotten on. As much as I wanted to ogle them, I did want to rest, and when the front two cars opened at Ellizabeth, I had moved there, but the seven girls followed me! They needed to urinate, and they said they were going to go at Penn Station, but I told them that the front car, #1487, had a restroom in it, and so they went up there to use it. If anyone wants more details on this portion, IM me at screen name Allison B500R.)
I then took the 3 train home, but it was pulled from service after developing door problems at Rutland Road. Another train took me from there to Pennsylvania Avenue, where I took the B83 home.
The equipment I rode today, IN ORDER!
4999 RTS B82
8221 R143 L
5470 R44 A
1404 Arrow IIIA NEC to Trenton
171 Silverliner IV R7 to 30 Street
9052 Kawasaki SE LRV 36 to Eastwick
9093 Kawasaki SE LRV 36 to Center City
1043 ADTranz M4 Market-Frankford to 69 Street
141 ABB N5 100 N/B
145 ABB N5 100 S/B
1100 ADTranz M4 Market-Frankford to 8 Street
691 Kawasaki B-IV N/B to Olney
5242 NABI 416 C bus to Center City
424 Silverline IV R7 to Trenton
1366/1486 Arrow IIIA NEC to NY/Penn
1445 R62 #3
1850 R62A #3
4411 RTS B83
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
The eastern cities had insisted on "one city, one vote' control over the extension from East Pasadena to Montclair, and have established a 13-member body to oversee the project.
But six months after the body was created, it still has no official power. The Blue Line Construction Authority, which oversaw construction of the first phase of the project from Los Angeles to Pasadena, was supposed to have turned over power months ago, but talks have bogged down.
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, many of whose board members find the Gold Line extension to be a low priority, has resisted handing off power over the project and refused to take part in the construction authority.
Assemblywoman Carol Liu, D- Pasadena, has acted in recent months as a go-between for the MTA and the eastern cities, trying to find a governing solution acceptable to both sides.
She proposed legislation last year that would have created a 15-member body to oversee the project and enshrined "one city, one vote' into law, but the bill failed to get out of committee and appears to be dead.
"We're still trying to negotiate something that's more amenable to the MTA,' Liu said Friday. "I think we're all hopeful we can work out a settlement for both sides, so there wouldn't be any opposition.'
Pasadena Councilman Paul Little, who chairs the Blue Line board, tried to work out a similar compromise last summer. He proposed a seven-member body with three seats for the eastern cities, and was roundly vilified by eastern representatives for trying to deny them equal voice on the board.
Nick Conway, executive director of the San Gabriel Valley Council of Governments, said the eastern cities are still opposed to any form of government that would have them in the minority. But they are open to a "clustered' arrangement that would give one seat to multiple cities.
"The cities where the construction will pass through their borders need to make the decisions involving those activities,' Conway said. "There appears to be some thinking that to accomplish that objective of inclusion does not mean to be transferred into numbers. The principle of inclusion is still there.'
Duarte Mayor John Fasana echoed the openness to a clustered system, provided the arrangement is weighted toward the eastern cities.
Liu said that she did not have a specific number in mind.
"It sounds a lot like what I proposed last summer,' Little said, upon being told of the plan.
The 13-member board may yet be granted the authority to manage the project. Monrovia Mayor Rob Hammond said negotiations with Los Angeles City Council members are "going very well.'
I've not yet been able to determine what their sources are.
Happy holidays, everyone.
But as our friend David always reminds us, things are subject to change, and probably will.
The question is, what are they seeking funding for? Just to 96th, or up to 125th? Because it involves a different type of construction, there is no reason the work between 96th and 125th cannot go on at the same time as the work to 96th. So there is no reason for the first segment not to go to 125th, and good reasons for it to go there. I'm afraid that if the part north of 96th isn't funded now, it won't be for a long time.
A line between the Upper East Side to Midtown would remove substantial amounts of passengers from the 6, AND give L riders a new option.
If they use the deep boring method, the 2011 opening date is actually realistic.
You'd still got a few issues.
The cross traffic on and off at Grand Central.
The fact that Queens riders have to go west to come back east on their way Downtown.
The upper third has the largest payoff, but I wouldn't describe the rest as cake. If ridership continues to grow on peak, the benefit could be absorbed. Remember, the Bronx is full of people who do not work, but less so than it used to be. What if that trend continues, with more workers up there?
That's a rather harsh statement ... any documentation behind this? Is the BRONX where all the fabled "welfare queens" have gone? :(
I don't expect the southern portion to have any benefits for UES riders. The SAS is a poor alternative to the Lexington Ave. subway for lower Manhattan locations (having no express service) and it's route, which runs farther from the centers of business clustered between 5th and 3rd Aves all the way to 34th St, would leave riders farther away than 4/5/6 trains. Those who benefit from the lower portion of the SAS will be those who live/work on the extreme east side below 57th St.
Not quite accurate. There's a huge hospital district between 34th and 14th, for which the SAS is considerably more convenient than the Lex. There are many offices around the U.N., for which the SAS is more convenient than the Lex. In Lower Manhattan, there are more office towers along Water Street than anywhere else, and the SAS's downtown stops are along Water Street.
The proposed track map for the upper SAS can be found here:
http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/sdeis/fig2-3.pdf
You will see that some very significant construction is required to bring the section above 96th to fruition, including a small storage yard north of 125th and an inter-modal transfer to the Lex line and MNR at 125th & Park.
The full-length SAS is in "the current plan," but you have to start somewhere, and the portion from 63rd-96th is the first logical extension that yields significant benefits.
Of course, there is always a danger that subsequent phases won't receive prompt funding. That's why the 63rd St LIRR tunnel has been a "tunnel to nowhere" for so long.
That's a pretty good preview of what may come in the future. I noticed that it said that two tracks will be open for a possible Bronx extension. So to terminate the line on 125 St, they would most likely build the station between Lexington & Park.
When the 63rd St tunnel was built with bellmouths to 2nd Ave, it was assumed that new capacity would be built along the Queens Blvd corridor. Since that never happened, you'd have to take service away from 6th Ave, and the MTA isn't going to do that.
So I say have the three locals on 6th Av. (the K would be diminished rush hours, but unlike the 1968 version, would provide service most other times as well).
What would be the K's northern terminal?
Says at the bottom that it's a Conceptual drawing of a TBM.
Well, the MTA has rejected this option anyway, so it doesn't matter. The remaining options are Deep Chrystie or Forsyth St. In either case, the track connection to the 6th Avenue Line won't be possible.
I'm guessing the question of Deep Chrystie vs. Forsyth is one of money vs. politics, which makes sense...but what advantage does the Forsyth option have over Shallow Chrystie? The only one I could think of is zero disruption to the D line, but I think the invaluable track connection would be more than worth the minimal disruption - at worst, the D would be split between Bway-Lafyette and Pacific on weekends, and the N train would run local in Brooklyn. [More likely, there would simply be a slow order and Grand St would be bypassed in one direction or the other.]
Such a routing would NOT happen with a simple diamond crossover. You'd need a flyover, such as exists at 125th, & Lexington or W4th IND. A diamond x-over would require that EVERY single train cross paths, which is unacceptable on NYCT trackage. It's the reason why the #1 is a local to South Ferry.
Personally, I've just wanted to see a ramp up from the 2nd av line that would connect to Grand St UL. Then, I'd route the "B" train up 2nd avenue to queens, and send the M uptown on 6th av to the CPW local.
Of course, the F, M and V trains would have to share tracks between the Chrystie st connector and W4th st, which wouldn't work.
Let's say the T is SAS-Hanover Sq and the V is SAS-Brighton Beach, and the B is 6 Av-Hanover Sq. It'd go something like this.
:00 D, T
:02 B
:04 V
:06 D, T
:08 B
:10 V
:12 D, T
:14 B
:16 V
:18 D, T
:20 B
:22 V
:24 D, T
:26 B
:28 V
...and so on.
This is of course assuming that all 4 lines run on a uniform 6-minute headway (which is not too unreasonable).
IINM, the 2 and 3 peak at just over 20 TPH and the 1 and 9 peak at 20, so this arrangement wouldn't work at 96/Bway. Also the 1/2/3/9 are at non-uniform headways - the 2 comes more often than the 3.
BTW, the B/D would have 20tph, and the T/V would have 20tph, which is almost equal to what exists at 96th.
Those are non-uniform headways. It's hard to squeeze 8 TPH between 15. Moreover, the A has serious scheduling issues that need to be resolved. There is no excuse for two trains showing up 2 minutes apart follwed by an 18 minute gap in service. There was a time where someone at Grant Av, 80th or 88th St headed for any station between Aqueduct and the Rockaways would have to wait a whopping 40 minutes for a train for several consecutive days (although I imagine they eventually got the idea and took the Lefferts train to Rockaway Blvd to wait for the Far Rockaway train, which bypassed those three stops). Hell we could have an entire thread as long as this one on the scheduling problems that seem to plague the A and C lines, for no apparent reason.
Not really, if you're willing to make slight adjustments here and there. On a train with 15tph, you can make one train a little later, and there should be no problem. Hell, as it is, during the rush trains arrive in bunches anyway.
There was a time where someone at Grant Av, 80th or 88th St headed for any station between Aqueduct and the Rockaways would have to wait a whopping 40 minutes for a train for several consecutive days
WHY?
Hell we could have an entire thread as long as this one on the scheduling problems that seem to plague the A and C lines, for no apparent reason.
Yep. With a combined tph of 23, I should never have to wait more than 3 minutes. 4 if you're pushing it. But particularly at the point where these trains merge, they always seem to bunch together.
WHY?
Back when I used to leave earlier (and when I actually used to get to school on time), I usually took the B20 or Q24, rarely the J, to Broadway Junction and transferred to the A or C train. For a while I kept catching the same A train, the first of two that were about 2 minutes apart (I know because several times before I had just missed that train and the Lefferts train crawled in right behind it). Anyway this train was the Far Rockaway train, but it was always late, every day. This is obvious from the bunching, the unusually heavy crowd present on the platform those days, and the couple of times I got there much earlier and either ended up on the same A or ended up on a C and saw that same train coming in at Euclid. Upon reaching Euclid this A train would run express to Rockaway Boulevard. Now A trains are supposed to run every 10 minutes in the reverse-peak direction, which means the Far Rockaway train comes every 20 minutes. If the Far Rockaway train bypasses Grant, 80th, and 88th, that means people waiting for a Far Rockaway train at those stations have to wait an additional 20 minutes (or more, if the next Far Rock train was also late). It happened so many times I began to wonder if this was some timetable anomaly, like the two 30-minute gaps in Far Rockaway service between 11 and midnight (which has since been reduced to 25 minutes).
The issue with Shallow Chrystie is the width of the street. To build it that way, they'd be coming dangerously close to the foundations of the buildings in that area. The Deep Chrystie and Forsyth options don't have that problem.
With either Deep Chrystie or Forsyth, you don't get a track connection between the SAS and the Sixth Ave Line. With Forsyth, it would be physically impossible. With Deep Chrystie they could build ramps from one to the other, but there are no plans to do so, and if they don't do it now it will never be done.
J trainloco's explanation suggests that a track connection between 6th/2nd probably wouldn't enjoy regular use, although obviously the routing flexibility is a nice-to-have.
I was really trying to suggest that a diamond crossover would not be as flexible as a flyover.
What I'd like to see would be a one way ramp that would allow 2nd av trains from midtown to use the manhattan bridge.
They need to just build Shallow Chrystie.
Why doesn't the city apply the same logic as Bloomberg is using for the Far West Side, upzone the area north of 96th, and use the increase in state and local tax revenues to fund part of the upper section?
The area is zoned R7-1, with a maximum FAR (floor area divided by lot area) of 4.0 for residential, 4.8 for community facilities. They could put in R10 on the avenues with an FAR up to 10, with a bonus to 12 that for inclusionary housing that could be used for new housing on the side streets for anyone displaced. Yes, there are a lot of projects in the area, which soak up some of the land, but I could at least 26 other avenue blockfronts with old tenements. You could get a lot of housing units with people paying taxes up there. There is also an old hospital, presumably one more hospital than the East Side needs.
Alternately, if we are coughing up $6 billion for East Side Access, how about $6 billion for the SAS? I hear the segment to 96th is only $4 billion.
For the initial segment, you don't need the T. If the Q is crowded or not frequent enough, just run the N up there, and serve Astoria by running more W trains. Eliminates switching.
Outside of the Mayor's circle, there is considerable doubt whether Tax Increment Financing can actually generate the kind of revenues needed to fund such an expensive project. I do agree that it could probably provide some funding, but it's the kind of revenue source that politicians tend to ridiculously over-estimate.
Accroding to a WINS radio report, the source is Kalikow.
1010 WINS) (NEW YORK) The first phase in a plan to build a subway line along Second Avenue would be limited to several stations on the Upper East Side that would connect to an existing tunnel, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said.
Trains along the new line would stop at 96th, 86th and 72nd Streets before veering west to the Broadway tunnel, MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow told the Daily News for Sunday editions. Trains would then follow an existing route to lower Manhattan.
The project, which could begin construction by the end of the year, would provide "an operating segment that ties into other lines and gives great service over to Times Square and downtown," Kalikow told the paper. Work could be complete by 2011, he said.
A second segment, from 125th Street to Hanover Square in upper Manhattan, was expected to be complete by 2020, he said. The full project would cost about $17 billion.
The new line is expected to ease crowding on the Lexington Avenue line, currently the only subway on the city's Upper East Side.
The city began constructing the Second Avenue line in the 1970's, but halted the project because of severe financial problems.
I will celebrate when they break ground, though. The time for cheap talk is over. Time to start digging.
Manhattan is going to be an interesting place. Construction crews working like crazy in lower Manhattan, a new subway project on the UES, tunnel boring to GCT in midtown for East Side Access.
These are good times for you if you are wearing a hard hat.
I presume you have basically three options: (1) Keep the questionable car in service, and every time you open/close the door, you leave the cab and shove it until you get indication, then keep going. (2) Isolate the door, such that when you work the doors, that particular door or the particular pair won't open, and all others keep operating as normal. (3) Isolate the car, dump the passengers, and keep the car OOS.
Is (2) in fact possible with the 01800 series cars? If it is, can it be done by a traincrew in reasonable time (e.g. by turning an air cock or using the computer), or does a maintenance guy have to do it?
What types of faults will cause a door to operate sluggishly, but vaguely normally? (There was no trash in any location that may be impeding the door progress, except maybe some very thin paper trash found its way BETWEEN the door and the carbody and accumulated there until a problem arises).
AEM7
Many things can cause a door prob. Most common is something in the track. Sometimes a screw comes loose, even in the door pocket, and rubs the door. Often you can see the scratch horizontally on the door. Sometimes the sensitive edge fails, usually from someone holding the door, and will give a "bouncing" door.
Thanks!! So you're not allowed to have a situation where a pair of doors are isolated and carry passengers -- I presume this is due to an emergency egress reason? Or is it just because of confusion that people could have if the door they are standing at do not open?
Do the traincrew generally know where the cutout is, or only the more experienced ones know? (The guy I was riding with today opted not to use the cut-out).
The sensitive edge: do you mean that in the rubber edge that are between two door halves, there is sensors in there to check that they are closed? I saw the operator trying to shove the edge back into place today, and he might have thought that would fix the problem. I always thought door sensors operated from within the door pocket, and that there is no wiring inside door. If there really is a "sensitive edge", how does it work? Magnets and relays?
AEM7
With electric door operators, which almost every transit agency
in the modern era uses, sluggish operation could be a defective
door operator motor, incorrect closing speed setting, or
lack of lubrication.
With pneumatic doors, it could be a clogged door speed regulating
orifice, partially closed cut-out cock, leaking piston cups,
or, again, external mechanical friction.
And BTW he is a Railfan and read nycsubway.org once at the school computer for a report that he had to do in summer school. And also my friend saw the old city hall station yesterday as he was at a Yankees game and decided to do some joyrideing after the game. He took the 4 to Canal St via City Hall loop then took the Q Train to 34 St, and then the D Train to Fordham where he went home(My friend lives near the Fordham Road stop on the 4 Train and the B and D Trains.)
------- | | |---- |---- ----- |---\ /---- ------
| | | | | | | | | |
| |-----| |---- |---- | |---/ \----\ |
| | | | | | |\ | |
| | | |---- | ----- | \ ----/ |
/\ |\ | |\ | | | /\ |
/ \ | \ | | \ | | | / \ |
/----\ | \ | | \ | | | /----\ |
/ \ | \| | \| \---/ / \ |----
WoodlawnBowlingGreen's Greenies
Thats all for now folks!
*note that it is supposed to spell "THE FIRST ANNUAL" it took me forever to do it.
In what language - Cryptogobbledygook?
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
**********************************************************************
I guess this puts Bush in the same category as terrorist attacks and east coast blackouts.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Penn
Yeah, sure.
No train service, so people will use other forms of transportation, BUT...
taxis and buses will be affected as well as they'll probably close off streets.
Yep, sounds like a minor disruption.
**********************************************************************
Hmm, I didn't hear about this. Glad that national paranoia only affected 3 trains.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Bomb
**********************************************************************
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Flordia begins to heat up about this time every year.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Florida
They could run trains from 207th inwood, down to TSP, down the shuttle, then down the lex to wherever
And anyway what's the point? The current system has worked well for 85 years. With Metrocard allowing free transfers to crosstown buses, travel flexibility is assured.
:-) Andrew
**********************************************************************
Ugh, I smell another "hi-speed rail to Albany" debaccle.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Airport
**********************************************************************
Hah! Let's see an aircraft stop and help rescue someone. Hats off to a quick thinking crew.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Zephyr
**********************************************************************
Hmmm, seems the big efforts were on SLE (hmm, looks like those through SLE trains were a good idea). Anyone know if those trains had more cars...like SPV's?
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#M-N
Your pal,
Fred
MNCR sometime next month is taking over maintenance of all Shoreline East equipment, at CDOT shops in New Haven
**********************************************************************
Well that's what happens when you tried to run a scheduled train on a totally unscheduled railroad...only unlike Amtrak you can't screw the scheuduled train. Maybe UP ought to adopt a more robust signaling system that supports hi-density operations.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Rail
Any disruption should help to relieve America's $500 billion annual current account (trade) deficit.
Mike, if you had only read the latest copy of TRAINS, or even a recent New York Times article by Don Phillips, you'd see that the UPS train is the problem. Not much to do with signalling. In fact, the Sunset Route has not seen better signalling in years; UP spent a lot of money in that corridor modernizing stuff after the merger.
AEM7
What about just dumping the UPS train?
The UPS train doesn't pay the bills for the amount of congestion it's generating. Considering something: let's say you sideline the Merchandizer for 3 hours in a siding because the UPS train can't be delayed. Let's say you have a single track line and over the 2,400 miles or so you have to sideline 3 Merchandizers. Each of those Merchandizers have a crew of 2. The 3-hour delays result in a dogcatch crew being called out. That's 6 crews you just lost for running that UPS train. Very soon your so-called profit from running the UPS train is all gone in dogcatch crews, never mind the pissed-off grain shippers.
You should read the current issue of TRAINS magazine, the article entitled "The Big Train" about Rock Island's own "No.57". You'd see why I think the UPS train needs to go on the Interstate asphalt highway.
AEM7
**********************************************************************
I hope this won't disrupt the classic N&W signal and pneumatic interlockings.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Roanoke
**********************************************************************
So much for a Junkit to the Carribean.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Mineta
**********************************************************************
HA ha, take that CSX.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#S&P
**********************************************************************
Yeah, go Amtrak. Way to not be jerks.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04052004.shtml#Retired
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
I seem to remember that the original (1960s-era) plans called for no express service on 2d Ave. because, supposedly, new signaling systems would increase track capacity to the point that express tracks would not be needed. Is that still the excuse, or is it just lack of funds?
It was designed that way to accommodate the PATH tracks, but I don't think the lack of an express stop is a serious oversight. Most people coming from, or going to, that area have other transfers they can make that are reasonable. On both 6th and 8th Avenues, there isn't a huge travel time difference between local and express, because even the local stations aren't that closely spaced.
The current plan is indeed very similar to the '60s plan. There is no provision for express service to be added later, which seems to be short-sighted, as all of the other north-south trunk lines are 4 tracks. It may well be that modern signaling will allow the SAS to run more trains than any other 2-track line, but it certainly won't allow as much as a 4-track line.
The other concern is that some of the stations are awfully far apart (e.g., 86th, then 72nd, then 57th, then 42nd). They are neither as close together as you'd expect on a local, nor as far apart as you'd expect on an express.
Not true, 7th Av 4track line ends at 96th Street, Broadway ends at 57th Street.
Arti
Without question the Q train certainly will. You could argue about the T, but the CBD keeps "stretching," and there are plenty of offices along the lower SAS's run, particularly the downtown hospitals.
This is exactly the case with SAS as built now.
«If built as now designed, the SAS will be the only north-south trunk line that's 2 tracks for its entire length.»
Subway is not built to serve riders. What kind of evidence do you have, that 4 track line or express service is needed as it travels through residential areas and below 14th Street low denity areas?
Arti
Proposed local stations would be served by a crossunder (or crossover) and two side platforms (one of which would be relegated to unused central island status in the event of expansion), and proposed express stations would be served by an island platform (which would become one of the island platforms in the expanded configuration), like 86th St.
...has all the information requested.
David
John
more if we tried.
We wouldn't love it any
more if we hide.
Not to mention by the way,
it is the NY City Subway.
Raymond Mui, Brian Weinberg, and Chris Der
gave a gift to SubTalk
by making Redbirds forever.
When I saw the video, I made a balk.
I was astounded and touched.
I was astonished and moved.
I was weeping and keeping
the sorrow that lie
beneath my heart
will never die.
It is all an art.
An art of sadness.
An art of sorrow.
An art of madness.
An art of moral.
We miss you redbirds.
We miss you all by the herds.
This poem was arranged and typed by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn.
I hope you like it. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
P.S.: toro-papa and mr_brian are not to respond to this poem.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I GET TO SLEEP AT 10:00 ON SCHOOL NIGHTS. SHUT UP.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The scrolling messages are really lame, by the way.
Idiot.
Why did my query as to a bedtime for you make me an idiot?
:)
D'oh I didn't quite crop it right and I'm not going back to do so, but you get the idea...
Da Hui
Last time they had this GO, people didnt even know that the Chambers St/Brooklyn Bridge transfer even existed! I'm sure most people took the J to Fulton then took the 2/3 train, which took the bulk of 4 train passengers heading into Brooklyn.
What sort of system does the MTA use to keep in touch with train crews?
I figure it has to either be a wired system (e.g. using the rails for the signal path), or else a standard VHF/UHF channelized system with repeaters spaced throughout the tunnels. I could also imagine a VLF (very low frequency) system, on the order of 10-100 kHz, perhaps using the tunnel walls to propagate by some sort of anomalous ground wave, with the entire train acting as an antenna, but that's just the physicist in me :)
The only reason I can think they had to shut down is because the fire is in the cables between the third rail in the tunnels and the switch gear in the substation. However you don’t say that what WTOP is reporting.
Oh, and for that might want to know where the traction power substation in question is located, It’s under the southbound right lanes and sidewalk of Connecticut Avenue NW in the bridge abutment of the bridge over Klingle Road NW across the street from the Kennedy Warren Apartments.
John
I drove, a good thing since it was simply pouring when I went home. Service resumed at around 7:20 with 15-20 minute delays but someone else I know got to the 37 bus at Grosvenor right on time and passed through there right as it reopened so it may have not been that bad.
I was listening to radio around 1800 this evening. WTOP reported that it was the same traction power substation where a similar incident happened, they also reported that a contractor was working in the substation this weekend changing out traction power cables between the switch board and the third rail in the tunnels below.
John
Considering how the information is relayed from some one at the incident of the site down to the WMATA press spokes person to a field reporter back to the news room writer editor then to the on air reporter. Some of the details are lost or altered.
Most of these people don’t know the nuts and bolts of how the various part of the system are put together or how they are configured, connected and related to each other at the various locations around the system.
John
So when I returned to JFK I had got a Cab to Howard Beach where I caught the A. The Cab was $7 but I shared with 2 other people from out of town who were very happy to be steered clear of the Air-Train Rip-Off. They thanked me Profusely.
If you are traveling as a couple or a group, take a cab!!!
The air train is for Single People, and suckers!
What rock have you been hiding under? This is very old news.
$5 when you get on at Howard Beach and another $5 when you get off at Jamaica.
I don't think it would be that quick a trip.
Da Hui
Frequency and reliability are not the same thing. If service is supposed to run every 20 minutes, and a bus shows up every 20 minutes, then it's infrequent but reliable. If, however, service is supposed to run every 10 minutes, and TWO buses show up every 20, then it's fairly frequent but not reliable (consistent, maybe, but not reliable < g >).
David
Yes, I know this is bustalk stuff, but since we are on the subject, you can also take the Q41 from Rockaway Blvd to Jamaica LIRR as well.
Not so. It only goes as far as the Jamaica Center E/J station.
Parsons-Archer and Jamaica Station are three LONG blocks apart!!!!!
The subject of the AirTrain and the discontinuing of the free shuttle buses has been a constant topic here for since the end of last year.
How could he miss it?
Giving the OP'er the benefit of the doubt, I assume he knew about AirTrain, however he was surprised that it didn't connect more easily to the airline terminals (in his opinion). Sometimes it takes a bit of work and imagination to understand what people are trying to say here.
It depends which terminal. At Terminal 4, for instance, the AirTrain stop is built right into the building. AirTrain admittedly isn't free, but it's both faster and far more comfortable than the bus. It's a significant improvement.
If I had money to burn, I'd buy you a ticket your way, and I'd fly into JFK, and we'll see who has the faster trip. I think I would be finished with my leisurely steak dinner at Sparks and enjoying my fourth cognac at about the time you'd be lumbering into Penn Station.
Every time I've flown to New York, I've flown into either Boston or Newark, except one time when I flew to JFK and we were stuck on a shuttle bus for 40 minutes, A-train for an hour, and then countless transfers before we finally made it to Penn Station, where we had to be stuck on NJTransit for another hour. At least I am a railfan, so it didn't bother me too much. I HATE JFK AIRPORT!
Consider if I had instead flown to Providence, I could have taken the shuttle bus to the Amtrak terminal which would have taken all of 15 minutes, then it's a nice 3 hour train ride into Metropark NJ. No hassle, no fighting with the City, no stupid transfers.
AEM7
All the power to you if you're such a railfan that you'd rather fly somewhere a hundred miles away and spend 3 extra hours in transit. But to portray that as a sensible alternative to get to New York is ridiculous. It's not cheaper, faster, or easier.
Yeah, that bus ride was terrible. Although the A goes straight to Penn Station, so there's no reason why Jersey Mike should have made you transfer.
Maybe he was making me railfan. I remember waiting for the A for more than 30 minutes that evening. We spent the time photographing a US&S signal head and checking out a "Mystical Chix". I think there were transfers later, but I might be imagining them.
Pigs, what do you do? Like generally. Mike seems to hang out with you a lot, and I never talk to you. I am just curious as to what you and Mike do together. I don't really railfan with anyone else but Mike and this guy I know in Illinois. (I guess I am not a big rail buff.)
AEM7
Yeah, flying to Boston and taking Amtrak to New York instead of flying to JFK and taking AirTrain to save $5 makes tons of sense.
So, it's AirTrain and LIRR for me!! Shaves an hour off the old midtown to JFK ride. Sure, it's a few bucks more but I just economize in other ways- grateful that I'm spared the 'A' and shuttle bus. Even thhe 'E' and AirTrain, which I've also done, is a delight over the old way. I'm a true AirTrain believer!!
When I took a ride on the Air-Train, there was an MTA bus below almost a block away. I watched as within seconds, we caught up to that lumbering ox and zoomed pass like he was standing still. I think that bus must have been traveling about 15 MPH as he was so painfully slow and still picking up passengers every other block. I couldn't imagine riding that thing especially if you're going to catch an international flight.
I don't know what everyone is complaining about but the Air-Train is the future. The time spent waiting for that bus and having to make all those stops is more time consuming then walking across platforms. I used to take buses all the time before the HBLR spoiled me and now I can't even remember when I commuted in one.
You guys better support that Airtrain. I would hate to see Port Authority shut this service down and bring back the bus. That would be a disaster.
:0)
Da Hui
Da Hui
You stole my thunder. I was going to say the same thing. I think he got lost or went the wrong way. If you have to take crosswalks, that means you got off the wrong platform to being with and had to go outside.
Taxi, (which I have pointed out, is cheaper) Stops right in front.
<<You stole my thunder. I was going to say the same thing. I think he got lost or went the wrong way. If you have to take crosswalks, that means you got off the wrong platform to being with and had to go outside.>> steveblue2003
I can only speak about terminal 6 (Jet Blue). You do in fact get off, take an escalator up over the trackway, walk over to take an elevator to ground level, GO OUTSIDE, then enter the terminal. A short walk (<50 feet), but outside none the less.
Terminal 5 (if it ever reopens) will be a long hike from the AirTrain station as well.
CG
Secondly this cab driver must have been smart enough to know that HB is off the airport boundary, making it easy and quick to return to the airport.
As long as you know to get in and shut the door before announcing your destination...
On the other hand, if you take a livery cab, tell him where you want to go and get a price before you get in. Only get in if you decide the price is reasonable - I can't tell you the number of times a livery guy has quoted me a price double or triple the yellow cab fare. One time I was down near Houston and Varick, and a friend of mine tried to get a livery cab up to midtown (48th and 7th IIRC). The price he quoted - $20. I told him a yellow cab would be about $7, and he said to take a yellow cab. Which she did.
As a rule of thumb, a yellow cab is $2 to get in ($2.50 at night), then $1.50 a mile thereafter, plus tip and tolls, or $35 to/from JFK Airport. That, of course, will change in May.... :(
If a cabie gets a short trip, he gets a ticket from the dispatcher allowing him to go to the head of the line next time. He doesn't have to wait again to get another fare.
Before they instituted that policy, all sorts of unpleasant behavior occurred.
AEM7
Yes.
-Chris
How difficult would it be to make the IRT bigger? The above ground portions you would need to move the platform and maybe a few structures. The cut-and-cover portions you can probably get away with digging to one side and bracing it with some kind of cantilevered structure (like a C shape). Are there any deep tunnel portions of the IRT?
AEM7
: )
Here are actually the IRT lines that can handle larger trains after shaving off a bit of the platforms. These lines were all built to dual contract specs, which allow for IND/BMT sized cars:
-The Lexington Line north of Grand Central, including Grand Central.
-The 7th Ave-Bway Line south of Times Square, including Times Square, but excluding SOuth Ferry.
-All the Bronx Els, except the West Farms portion of the White Plans line between Manhattan and East 180th Street. (The Dyre Line and north of E180 to 242 of course could handle larger cars).
-The entire Flushing Line in Queens, excluding the Steinway Tunnels.
-The Brooklyn IRT east of Atlantic Ave, including both the Livonia El and the Flatbush Line.
-The Clark Street Tunnel from Manhattan, all the way to Atlantic Ave, excluding Atlantic Ave.
So here are the portions of the IRT that banish the IRT to the size of trains they use, basically the Contract 1 and 2 lines:
-The Lexington Line south of Grand Central to South Ferry, including South Ferry, which was originally built for the Lex East Side IRT, not the West Side IRT.
-The 7th Ave Broadway Line north of Times Square.
-The 3 to from 96th to Lenox and the 2 to East 180th St.
-The Joralaman Tube from Manhattan to Atlantic Ave, including Atlantic Ave
-The 42nd Street Shuttle.
-The Steinway Tubes on the 7 line.
Seems to me those are the vast majority of the system; I just marked them up on a copy of the Map.
-The Lexington Line south of Grand Central to South Ferry, including South Ferry...
So, I am sure this has been asked before: would it make sense to join Lexington above Grand Central to Broadway-7th Ave below Times Sq to make one "IND-sized" line that runs from Woodlawn, Pelham etc -- 125 St -- Grand Central -- (new tunnel) -- Times Sq -- Chambers St -- Court St -- Atlantic Ave -- New Lots/Flatbush?
AEM7
Not really! There are way more IRT lines that are Dual Contract than are Contract one or two. Are you sure you marked up the right lines? It's just the top of the 7th AVe-Bway line and the bottom of the Lex line, with one Brooklyn Crossing, one fraction of a Bronx El, and the 7 tube...That's it.
Look at the track map, and try to figure out what would become of the rest of the system if you did that. You'll quickly conclude: No.
It would be far cheaper just to make signalling improvements that allow trains to run at shorter headways (already planned), and to fix known bottlenecks like Rogers Junction and the 96th St merge (not yet planned).
Piggo
If that junction were more flexibly designed, the train to 242/VCP would be express, and the train to 148/Harlem would be a local. This would follow the pattern employed on the system's other trunk lines, where the more distant terminals get the express service.
The reason this isn't done, is that the design of the merge at 96th would force all four services (1/2/3/9) briefly onto the express tracks, which is an unacceptable bottleneck. Therefore, the trains coming from 242 must be local.
As a result, the Broadway riders lost more than the Bronx and Lenox riders gained. 96 St. and Rogers junctions should both rebuilt, if funds were available, to provide better service to upper Manhattan and Brooklyn IRT patrons.
There have een many threads on this in the past, and the lack of funds is the big problem. Most, but not all, subtalkers seemed to agree that the two junctions should be rebuilt if funds were available.
1 - New Lots to 242/VCP, express between Chambers and 96. Skip stop with the 9 (otherwise exact same route) during peak hours. Runs full time, but local from Chambers to 96 late nights.
2 - Current route, Flatbush to 241, express days, local late nights.
3. South Ferry to 148/Lenox, local from Chambers to 96th. Does not run late nights. Late nights, a shuttle is provided between 145 and 148 , and between SF and Chambers (possibly Chambers->SF->Bowling Green and back...), using a short train.
One thing you didn't mention is the incredible expense of lengthening the Grand Central platforms from 510' to 600'.
David
David
The SAS is being designed to IND standards, not because it is the larger one, but because the SAS is being connected to other lines that are already built that way.
The SAS is in vapour. It could be connected to any line it wants to be connected to. So the fact that they chose to connect it to BMT/IND lines indicate that they chose the wider tunnel standard, and not vice versa.
Tunnels and bellmouths are already in existence, designed in the 1960s and built in the 1970s, for connections the SAS is intended to make. There are no potential IRT connections in that area that make any sense.
There aren't any realistic opportunities to connect the SAS to the IRT in Manhattan. (A Bronx connection might be possible.) 57/7 is low-hanging fruit; the track capacity (as far as Lexington) and bellmouths are already there.
All what you say is correct. As for a Bronx connection, the Bronx line it would take over (such as the Pelham line) would then run wider BMT/IND cars as most of the Bronx els are built to BMT/IND specs anyway.
Connecting to the Pelham Line on the other hand would be far more beneficial. The 6 is currently somewhat isolated. By replacing the Pelham service with a SAS service, the busy 6 would now be empty starting in upper Manhattan (which it currently isn't) and the Pelham passengers would get much improved access to the west side, which is now rather piss-poor, along with continued east side access.
The 6 also goes further afield than the Concourse line. It serves areas that are not near other lines.
Transportation honchos plan to kick off the Second Ave. subway with a miniline that runs from 96th to 72nd Sts. and then shoots over to Broadway to bring passengers downtown, the Daily News has learned.
The project could be ready in as few as seven years.
"It makes the most sense," Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chairman Peter Kalikow told the Daily News. "When you are done with that, you have an operating segment that ties into other lines and gives great service over to Times Square and downtown."
Construction could start late this year on the first leg of the long-awaited project.
New stations would be built along Second Ave. at 96th, 86th and 72nd Sts. The line would then curve west - stopping at the 63rd St. and Lexington Ave. F line station, then run downtown along the existing Broadway tunnel.
The plan is included in documents submitted to the Federal Transit Administration. The proposal is expected to be released in the coming weeks, when the public can comment.
Officials have told the MTA it would be easier to get federal cash if the agency built the Second Ave. subway in segments so at least some service will be up and running.
The first segment would attract about 200,000 daily riders and bring much-needed relief to the overcrowded Lexington Ave. line, officials have said.
The next three segments would extend the line from 125th St. to Hanover Square. The entire project will cost about $17 billion and be completed around 2020.
The first part of the project will make life more difficult along the avenue before it makes it better.
There will be lane closures, construction noise and truck traffic. Some businesses and residents will be displaced, either temporarily or permanently, as station entrances would be inside buildings instead of on sidewalks.
"It's going to be a headache with the noise and people running around doing construction," said Philip Roman, an optician at E. 72nd St. and Second Ave.
There is a lot of uncertainty along the avenue, said Francesca Macaraaron, manager of Penang Restaurant at Second Ave. and E. 83rd St., which has an outdoor cafe.
"We may lose a whole season of the cafe and quite possibly the entire restaurant," Macaraaron said. "Quite frankly, we are concerned."
But Charles Warren, an area resident and Community Board 8 chairman, said, in general, the board and many East Siders believe the new line is desperately needed and, after some pain, will benefit the entire city.
By CLEMENTE LISI
Forty-five million obsolete subway tokens will go out in a blaze of glory this week when the coins are finally melted down after outliving their use.
New Jersey-based M&M Scrap Metals will melt down the nearly 342,000 pounds of tokens after, which were scrapped last year in favor of a MetroCard-only system.
"It's actually kind of sad to see all these coins go into the fire," said Bob Schmidt, who runs the scrap-metal company in Elizabeth, N.J. "It's definitely the end of an era for the city and everyone who rides the subway."
Schmidt said he bought the tokens - which have a street value of $90 million - from the Transit Authority last month for $500,000.
"I think I'm going to keep a few for myself as souvenirs," he said.
Schmidt said the tokens - which are made of copper and nickel - will be melted down into a noncorrosive alloy that will be transformed into solid bars and used to make car, airplane and computer parts.
Subway turnstiles and bus collection boxes stopped accepting tokens last year.
This isn't the first time the TA has sold off tokens and melted them down.
The agency got rid of 60 million "Bull's Eye" tokens in 1998, after the agency replaced them with the "Five Borough Pentagram" token in 1995.
Transit buffs can still buy sets of tokens at the Transit Museum in Brooklyn and the TA store in Grand Central Terminal.
AEM7
But seriously, the Stockholm T-Bana does use flex-cars. There are some good pictures of them at UrbanRail.net's Stockholm page.
My guess as to why you wouldn't make the whole train a single flex car is so if there is a malfuntion in one car you don't have to take the whole train out of service to fix it. Rather, you can just uncouple the car with the problem and send all the other cars back out to work.
Mark
Though, I wonder, why articulated stuff hasn't made a comeback in NYC, given that it's nicer and SAFER, too
Nearly a dozen police and safety officers brace themselves for the worst. It's 2 p.m., and teens by the hundreds are pouring in from all directions to the center of the Forest Hills MBTA station. Chatter overwhelms the roar of city buses as students catch up with friends at the end of another school day in Boston. For the teens and the police, it's a daily ritual: waiting, watching, and fearing that recent violent events could repeat themselves.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Great photos.
Just think. That will be the only time the R142S will have rubber wheels.
And wow, a train on truck tires, is this the face of BRT in the future? :)
BRT is supposed to be like the busways in Pittsburgh, or Sao Paulo. Boston's Silver Line is BST: Bus Silver Transit.
AEM7
So bring that sucker down here, and connect those motors to the tires, it's street-legal!!
WOOOOOOWEEEEEE
And railroads are roads.
Mark
Well, that's the point. They ARE R142A's with a new designation.
How will the cabs in the R142S be laid out? Will it be similar to the R68 set up of 1 transverse cab and 1 "regular" cab? Or will the cabs be convertable like the R62 and as such only the operating cars at each end will have transverse cabs.
That makes much more sense.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Source, please? I had said (not on SubTalk) that this was something that SHOULD be done, but nobody with any official knowledge of the situation ever told me it WOULD be done.
David
Quite frankly I find that very difficult to believe.
Straight from NYCSubway's R142 page:
They are designed to be linked in 5-car semi-permanent sets in the order A-B-B-B-A but can be linked in 4, 6, 9, or 11 car sets.
Unless, of course, it is possible to make a 6-car set with 3 A cars and 3 B cars. If that IS possible, then there's really nothing stopping them from putting R142/A's on the #7 line right now.
Another problem with this is that the A-A combination puts two locked cabs away from the Conductor's operating position. Since these cars do not have remote end door unlocking, and since the other end doors are designed to be left unlocked, the A-A combination in a remote location would present egress problems during an emergency if a crew member could not manually unlock the cabs.
This was the hurdle on the Flushing line, and there should be 6-singles with cabins coupled to a five-car unit with cross cabs (if the operating departments followed the advice they were given). This way the locked doors in between cars are at the Conductor's position, where they can be easily unlocked manually.
Use R62As. They are retrofitable. 4-8 R68s have CBTC right now.
ANY car canbe retrofitted with CBTC. Question is, how much overhauling would be needed?
DEBT
----------------
It’s a good move for reaching those voters with computers, but what high-speed rail supporters might want to concentrate on are the hundreds of people hired by the firm that Bush and Gallagher are using to collect the signatures needed to put the measure back on the ballot.
Saturday, during Springtime Tallahassee, an annual event of parade, crafts market and entertainment, two people collecting signatures told would-be signers, “It’s just to get it on the ballot so everyone can vote on the bullet train.”
One was told, “but I am in favor of the bullet train.”
He replied, “Well this is the only way you can get a bullet train. You have to get it on the ballot.”
He was confused when told 53 percent of the voters approved a Constitutional amendment in 2000 requiring the state build the train and that there already is a Florida High Speed Rail Authority, which has contracted with a vendor to build the train.
Both signature takers said they are paid a dollar per signature.
---------------------
This signature collection business is big business I understand, i see want ads for it all the time. ALso notice that Bush is against the voting on constitutional admendment process we have now, but yet he's using it anyway....hm...double standard.
It's also amazing how far these sleezy petitions are making it, but I understand you have to be a registered voter to sign, so there is going to be a LOT of petitions thrown out.
(I STILL would LOVE to have the power turbine (or gas generator) off that prototype, polished, cut in 1/2, and turned into bookends....)
It's too bad the state wouldn't let them run the jet-train(or anything else) as a real demo along the tri-rail route to build up support. That was a great idea. Seems unfair don't it?
"Here's what the train we might build will kinda be like, only the real thing will be different and go faster and be in a different part of the state"
Kinda like going to your Chevy dealer to buy a Corvette, test driving a Cavalier, while the salesdrone tells you how great your new Corvette, if you buy it, will be.
I'm assuming the only reason they picked that area was the population, and it's the only area where FDOT owns the track. They would have to deal with CSX on the current TPA - ORL segment.
Without CSX it would be great to test run it here, and just tell the people the ride will be smoother, less noisy(segmented crappy track with horns at the crossings), and quicker in real life!
Photo of the R6000 CPU. Sorry not very clear.
The R6000 is a much better CPU than Intel, because it has the character "R" at the beginning of its name, making it compatible with NYCTA equipment numbering scheme. The R6000 is the large chip on top shown in the picture.
Cool, they're going to use equipment that's older than my computer. ANd my computer ain't new!!
*The R6000 is a much better CPU than Intel, because it has the character "R" at the beginning of its name, making it compatible with NYCTA equipment numbering scheme*
That's either a funny coincidence or a funny satire, I don't know which.
Apart from Intel or AMD, it could be IDT, VIA, IBM, Texas Instruments, and at a push it might even be Harris Semiconductor (although he would have to have a 286 for that to be possible). Then if it's not a PC it could also be Motorola, ARM, and a variety of other vendors...
is a slightly updated version of a processor developed in 1978.
1971: Intel Corporation announces the first microprocessor, the Intel 4004, developed by a team headed by Marcian E. Hoff.
The MTA will not have such a rich second source option. They, and the rest of the railroad industry, appear stuck on LonWorks and the Neuron chip. There are only two manufacturers, neither is Intel, AMD nor Motorola.
"TRUE safety" can only be provided, when a system does nothing. Unfortunately, the Neuron chip comes close to providing that capability, vis-a-vis more modern (post 1980's) designs. LonWorks and its derivative IEEE-1473-L standard were designed when bandwidth and computing power were precious commodities. They made some good design choices based on those realities, however the real world has progressed and the Neuron has stayed still.
There are also the problems associated with designing a system on a device that is and will remain a technological backwater.
Hell ... LED's are *just* starting to make their appearance and they've been proven for HOW long? Subways and other life-critical missions are NOT where you deploy Microsoft. If government spits the bit owing to a flaw in the operating system, that'd be a public service to most folks (yay, Billy!) ... but I *really* don't want to see a screen in a cab that says "general train fault, move ANY handle to reboot train." :)
Given what it's replacing, it's STILL progress.
LEDs have been used on interlocking machines since the 50's or 60's I believe (the older NX machines have them, unless they've been upgraded to use LEDs at some point int he past). And I can't prove it, but I'd swear the US&S at Jay St uses LEDs instead of conventional bulbs (they have a weird, and even glow about them with no real visible filament).
> Subways and other life-critical missions are NOT where you deploy Microsoft.
Sorry Kev, QBMT runs Winders.
Ya knew this was coming. :)
And as to Winders, well then ... guess I'll be doing MY railroading in museums then. Maybe you can sneak into the data center and run FSCK and then do a LILO ... after all, the penguin wears a suit. :)
Old doesn't mean useless. If an old processor is old enough to do the job effectively, then its a workable solution. If CBTC doesn't require the processing power of newer processors, you can save money as well as avoid some issues of newer processors.
Many people use a 286 box as a local firewall running Linux. Until recently you could actually run a new version of Linux on a 386 or 486. It was cheap and did the job that was required of it.
Some organizations use newer computers to do the job of old. I don't know their reasoning, but the TA uses newer PCs to run their DOS based programs (through Windows of course), and the Windows based applciations they use at some locations could easily be done with a first generatin Pentium. Seems like a waste to me. Either use them to their potential or don't upgrade for the sake of upgrading.
Just a note: the RS6000 was the name of the box, the chip inside was the Power PC Architecture. These chips are the same as those found in Apple computers today (Apple migrated from 68XXX processors to the Power RISC architecture a while back).
PS: Whatever is going in a train will undoubtedly have a form factor that fits a 19 inch rack and will not have any rotating magnetic storage.
You're thinking of the RS6000. The MIPS R6000 has nothing to do with IBM. Accurate "reporting" makes for a better parody.
A DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 3 ATA Hard Drives there are enough PATA cables and power wires to fill the empty space in the case and it doesn't look pretty. Add to that Intel's stupid heat sink and fan design and it looks like a real mess.
PATCO from Woodcrest to Walter Rand, RiverLine to Trenton, NJT to Penn Station
or
PATCO from Woodcrest to 8th and Market, MFL to 30th Street, SEPTA to Trenton, NJT to Penn
Thanks
how about the MFL or walking to 11th and take SEPTA at Market East to Trenton instead of 30th street?
0817 Woodcrest
0828 Broadway
0841 Walter Rand
0943 Trenton
1002 Trenton
1126 New York Penn
or
0817 Woodcrest
0835 8/Market
0843 8/Market
0848 30th St
0901 30th St
0951 Trenton
1002 Trenton
1126 New York Penn
Sean@Temple
AEM7
No it isn't. These cars will not be single units.
Oh yeah, and did I mention that they cost 12million a pop and that as such NYCTA is going up to a 5 dollar base fare with a 2 dollar exit fare on the QB past Union Turnpike, ENY on the Jamaica el and the Canarsie line, on the Brooklyn Lines (the Brighton, Culver, Sea Beach and West End lines) south of Kings Highway, and past Euclid on the A train. Also the SAS, the Javits extension, and all maitenance for the next 5 years is permanently defered.
Way to go Foamers!
J/K
how is your airtrain monorail doing? i keep meaning to dredge up an article about the springfield (ma) monorail to parody the vegas monorail post, but can't find a suitable article other than a speech by turkpine authority chairman matt amarillo.
til next time
WATERVILLE, Maine -- Snowmobile transit have become a problem in Baxter State Park, its director says. The speed of the machines is an issue in some cases, Buzz Caverly said, and some snowmobiles are going where they're not allowed. Snowmobiling is permitted only along the park's Tote Road. Caverly spoke Saturday at the annual meeting of the Friends of Baxter State Park, an independent citizens' group working to preserve, support and enhance the 200,000-acre park's wilderness character. In his brief "state of the park" remarks, he said 2003 was a successful year, with nearly 65,000 park visitors, of whom about 36,000 were from Maine.
AEM7
But I am looking forward to my P train if the MTA horns in locally. :)
The covenants that accompany the bonds don't allow ANY tolls to be removed.
The toll plaza was moved from Suffern to Woodbury but that stretch still has tolls; it's just collected 15 miles further north.
The Spring Valley tolls were removed but the TZ Bridge tolls were increased proportionately to make it revenue-neutral.
The Ardsley toll is still there.
The New Rochelle toll was made one way and doubled.
So they have done a lot to reduce toll booth congestion, but haven't surrendered a dime of revenue.
Then again, how many times have we paid that pig off? Yeah, it's sounding more an more like it already IS the MTA. =)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Lots of photos too(newspaper photos, not us amatuer style)
Short Trips: High-speed rail is a sleek way to take in the sights
The technology is similar (identical?) to the much maligned AirTrain. Integration of SkyTrain is vastly more successful though.
The Vancouver bus/trolley-bus system is remarkably good too. Too bad it was ignored by the author.
Most remarkable about the Millenium line is that the route existed as an express bus route (99B) for several years before it became a SkyTrain route. Stops are nearly identical. It just plain worked. Compare this to the arguments going on in the US about "bus rapid transit" vs "rail rapid transit". There were no such arguments in Vancouver... it just worked!
There's now a 98B express bus up/down Granville which is an obvious target for the next SkyTrain extension.
Click on the image below to open the map.
Thank you.
-Chris
The N will remain at 86th st until 2005.
So from 6:30 AM to 12 Noon, express Manhattan bound
12 Noon to 8:30 PM, express Pelham Bay Park bound
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
You left out two stops on the White Plains Road line...Freeman Street and West Farms Square-East Tremont Avenue...other than that, nice job...
Incognito
Just to nitpick, I thought the Fulton St. and Union Sq. station markers were a little confusing - perhaps using the circles connected by narrow tethers would be clearer (like Times Sq. and the BMT/IND/Lez Canal St. staion)
-Chris
"It was forty years ago today"
"The R36 first came out to play"
Speak for yourself. I hate the R36s... Well. no i dont. The R36MLs were GREAT cars.. it was the corona WFs that sucked.. for some reason the westchester ones were so much better
If anyone can assist in identifying cinema that showcases in some form the Els, this fan would be grateful.
Hope all are well.
The Lost Weekend, a true classic.
In "The Lost Weekend" the 3rd Avenue El also appears when the hero has escaped from Bellevue Hospital and is making his way home to 209 East 53rd or 55th St. Earlier, when he is in Nat's Bar on 3rd Avenue, you see several vintage trolleys passing in the street outside.
Oddly, the view down the length of the el looks more like the Metro North viaduct on Park Avenue north of 96th Street than the 2nd and 3rd Avenue els.
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
Recall reading an installment of "Potsy" (old comic strip in NY Daily News) about forty years ago. He found a dead horse on this street, but couldn't spell the name, so he told his partner, "Let's drag it over to Myrtle Avenue !"
I looked through the NY Daily News Sunday comics for the first time in a long time with my Dad yesterday, and all these strips were sadly absent. I was all set to see Dick Tracy with a two-way wrist PC, and an e-mail address in the "Crimestoppers Notebook" !
All gone! :-(
As a small child, I tinkt dey vas relatives becauss meine familie talked like dot!
Another neat thing about "French Connection" is that, in one of the midtown Manhattan scenes, once can see the exterior of a cinema showing another great early 1970's (1970) film, the classic Rolling Stones documentary, "Gimme Shelter" : Poster reads :
"The music that thrilled the world ... and the killing that shocked it !"
A film within a street scene within anither film.
This thread is gonna make me rent that film again.
Your pal,
Fred
Enjoy the flick ! I haven't seen it since spring 1972 !
Wasn't there s scene in Williamsburg under the Bway el where Popeye Doyle makes a "milkshake" out of beer, and the pills he's collected, and dumps it on the bartop ?
Your Hitchcockian pal,
Pete
Whatever replaces the World Trade Center must be Kong-worthy.
There are commercial videos from Rail Tapes which include the Myrtle Ave., Lexington Ave., and Fulton St (post 1940 part only) Brooklyn Els and the 3rd Ave. El in Manhattan and the Bronx.
The best videos are those narrated by Roger Arcara. There are 2 videos of the els, with a total playing time of around 1 hour and 40 minutes. They include the 2, 3, 6, 9th Ave. Els in Manhattan, and the Myrtle, Lexington, Fulton and 5 Ave. Els in Brooklyn. If you are interested in these hard to find videos, let me know as I may have a source.
"Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House"--a Cary Grant film from the 1940s that has some great shots of the Els winding through the streets of Lower Manhattan.
"Port of New York"--a very ordinary crime film (except if you want to see what Yul Brynner looked like before he shaved his head) that featured a scene filmed on the platform of the Canal Street station on the 3rd Avenue El.
Mark
Yes, that apparently is a passenger car.
Think of car logos: Jaguar, Impala, Mustang, Firebird, Ram...
The agency that got me thinking about this is Vancouver's "TransLink." http://www.translink.bc.ca/ Their logo is a human stick figure leaping forward. I look at that logo and think "Aha, this service will take me from point a to b, and quickly! This service will help me leap over obstacles!" Kudos to TransLink, boo-hiss to all the "TAs."
Isaac
Mark
I agree with the last poster, they're all competing for the transporation market, so MARKET! We aren't talking about the fire department, transit needs not be boring.
And the only other system i can think of that doesn't end with TA is HARTline, good name, horrible paint job.
At least PSTA has a beautiful paint job on their 300x and 100x bus. Everytime I use it i see tons of drivers staring at the painting while they're in "park". I personally would like a poster of this.
St. Pete is closest to us, bridge with a bus, and on the other side is Tampa skyline:
That's not as a cool logo a the two-tone "M" logo from the 70s and 80s or the "TA" logo on the pre-GOH R32s, 36WFs, 38s and 40s.
til next time
Wow that station is really well illuminated.
It wasn't as bright as that photo makes it seem.
Are these yard tracks in any kind of regular use? Were they ever?
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Regards,
Jimmy
UNtil about late 50/early 60's the tracks were connected at the Fulton Street end to the southbound express. For whatever reason this led to more than one derailment so the TA installed bumpers at the south end of the two tracks. Thereafter if a local was to run below Brooklyn Bridge it had to switch to the express track.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Before R142's arrived, a set of R62's assigned to 5 service would lay-up there EVERY DAY.
I rode R68's on both the N and Q today and I had to resist the urge to get a tetanus shot after getting off them. #2900 is an absolute disgrace inside and out.
Robert
The photos have impressed me after seeing what cars going through REAL carwashes actually look like ... but then again, I *worked* Coney and it has something to it that other yards, a bit more INLAND don't have ... "salt spray" from the HO-shun ...
There's an old saw about San Fran - "The coldest winter I ever spent was SUMMER in San Francisco" ... anyone who DOESN'T live on Staten Island (the ONLY thing worse) can attest to how the winter when walking structure at Coney to get to your put-in or home from you layup is just UN-FRIGGING-BELIEVABLE. Those of us who did winter at Stillwell want to choke the CHIT out of whatever moron decided to put a damned TRAIN yard there. OW! :(
(and folks wondered why I admired the IND) ... MOST layups were INSIDE, and relatively WARM by comparison! :)
(Read carefully...hehe...you'll appreciate the jokes...)
"Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience". Someone here has used this maxim to beat a few good Subtalkers senseless.
Chuck Greene
a 7 express to flushing around 10 am
Can't do that until the afternoon...
those R113's are off the hook!
R113's are crane cars...
wuz the R127 we had to ride back on...what a trashy car
R127's are garbage collection cars...
Ahh, never mind :-|
Given that the MOD trip is the day before it, I'm curious to see just how well attended the Transit Museum trip will be.
Dooooood!!
4 a sec there I thought you were calling a ride on the 1 line a cacafest...
it's CHEAP only if your azz is under 16 or whatever the "child" age was...
what is the routing for this trip anyway?
I just hope they don't put 9306 on the end AGAIN!
til next time
#3 West End Jeff
For that matter, why is the storage track north of Fourth Avenue depressed? I think there are other examples where storage tracks alongside revenue tracks (Flushing?) are at different levels.
Thanks in advance for any information on this matter.
The track at 4th Avenue is not depressed, it's level. The other tracks are on a grade.
Very similiar to the configuration east of 179th St.
Regards,
Jimmy
Oh and Gil Hodges would have turned 80 on April 4 if he were still alive.
BTW that baseball wasn't for sale. Our local radio personalities had a guy on the air from Bill's Sports Collectibles, a store in south Denver, and people were calling in to get items appraised.
--Mark
--Mark
--Mark
Frank Hicks
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Have you looked underground? :(
WASHINGTON - Four years ago, District of Columbia firefighters' handheld radios were not working as they tried to rescue trapped Metrorail passengers during a tunnel fire.
That scenario is unlikely to happen again due to radio communication system upgrades both above and below ground, D.C. fire officials said Monday.
On Wednesday, D.C. and Metro officials plan to officially announce they have finished the system upgrades in Metro tunnels.
The city began switching from an analog to a digital 800 Megahertz system more than three years ago, and an improved system offering more dependable, clear signals has been running since last fall.
But the radios did not work in the tunnels until recently, fire officials said.
Firefighters put the system to the test during a March 18 tunnel fire on the Red Line.
"We were able to communicate just as well underground as we were above ground," said Raymond Snead of the firefighters union. "It was crystal clear."
Before the system changes, the radios would only work in tunnels if one firefighter was close enough to see another, and the messages would not reach the surface, said Snead and other fire officials.
Transit agency officials said Metro bus operators and Transit Police also have upgraded their radios to the same 800 Megahertz system over the past two years. Rail workers are scheduled to get the new radios as well.
(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
This report by Al Jazeera was posted to the Yahoo Urban Maglev group.
-------------
"Oh, and Death to America."
You read that article too?
I am not sure how accurate the report is, but they do cover the pros and cons of both competing technologies.
http://users.adelphia.net/~mannyab/Map1.jpg
There'll be a few more later
-Chris
That's a cool idea. However, I wasn't quite sure how the dynamics would play out. I'd like to reuse the Chrystie St connection, though, look forward to it in a later version, perhaps. :)
I checked that on a Queens bus map (which gave me the idea to run it down there since I saw the heavy bussing there) and considered using the LIRR tracks running through the St. Albans Station. But in this map, it runs under Merrick Blvd. Perhaps it would be cheaper to instead utilize the underused section of LIRR trackage. You think it would it be practical for both the LIRR and the subway to actively share the ROW?
#3 West End Jeff
I examined the area around the end of the Flushing line and noticed that all the spots that I'd put stations on an extension of the 7 already had stations on the LIRR Port Washington Branch! So it seemed a little redundant. However, as I understand the PWB is a bit over loaded so maybe running an extension of the 7 north of the PWB ROW would be an idea?
I like it. :-)
Very nice map. For a fantasy map, it's rather realistic compared to what other people have planned. The SAS Bronx extension seems to follow Third Avenue and your Eastern Queens extensions are simple and rather conservative. Also, why did you avoid building an extension the 7 beyond Flushing? I'd have the Hillside Avenue line run local east of 179th street, and I'd skip the 201st Street stop. Also, the E train should push one more stop at Springfield Boulevard - Laurelton. OTOH, I'd personally rather have more LIRR service in that area.
I like it. :-)
I really like the SAS layout (the 3rd ave subway in the Bronx and 125th St. crosstown are awesome) At last, someone is able to adapt an actual MTA map and make it look really good!
-Julian
But his plan is more likely to actually happen. :)
Just a little more likely. ;)
Staten Island anyone?
Extend F service to Little Neck Parkway/Hillside
Extend 3 from New Lots to Jfk Airport, and create a spur off the A line, also to JFK Airport from north of HB station. This will effectively shut down the $2 billion Airtrain and shut RonISBS up for good. 3/4 service will use the lower level, while A uses the upper level because of train imcompability.
Extend 4 from Utica down to Kings Plaza Shopping Center in Brooklyn
Extend E to Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream via. the Conduits and Farmers Blvd
Extend 7 to Bell Blvd then up Bell to Bay Terrace Shopping Center.
Extend M directly up to Woodhaven Blvd/IND station and create a Woodhaven hub with 2 additional tracks along Queens Blvd and into 57th st in Manhattan to hook up with any IND/BMT trunk line in Manhattan (the M will terminate at Woodhaven)
Checkbook anyone? :-D
-Julian
Why extend the 3? JFK does not demand 2 services. Instead, send just the A train there.
Extend 4 from Utica down to Kings Plaza Shopping Center in Brooklyn
Good idea, except that more people will be going through the Brooklyn IRT, which is already crowded.
I'd like to see an extension from the Church Av LL (S Bklyn IND) turning east onto the LIRR Bay Ridge Branch. Then, approximately where it reaches Utica, it turns south and runs along Utica until Utica meets Flatbush, and then it runs to the Kings Plaza mall.
Checkbook anyone? :-D
Checkbook? Please. I'm gonna make this a reality by rolling quarters!
Build a flyover on the myrtle line. Then have a peak direction express service all the way from woodhaven to Marcy.
I actually had about half the eastern division finished on the map, and then Paint Shop Pro 8 did some stupid $#!T. Now I am deleting it off my computer and I'm putting version 7 back on. PSP8 is too glitchprone.
I wish I knew how to make a map like this, though.
I've used only MS Paint so far to do some minor things, like a strip map or two, but it seems for a full-fledged map, I'll need to pay.
Some are techicnaly or logically unfeasible, some changes I might have made, but overall... a great job.
Elias
BTW I hope that the Pelham extension into Co-Op City ducks into a subway line at the edge of the park. Otherwise Co-Op City residents might not like it.
Yes in that version the 6 crosses over I-95 and shortly afterwards ducks underground to pick up Co-Op City customers (wouldn't want to ruin too much of the park). Naturally, I've started <6> express service from Pelham Bay Park instead of 177th St to get these folks into Manhattan faster.
The Astoria express was just to speed service from Midtown to LGA. It really doesn't matter too much which route gets it. I wanted to add Sea Beach Express service too but there aren't any express stops on the ROW.
I built *my* CoOp City line as an elevated, on the assumption that being that close to the water, a subway tunnel might not work.
Of course, my elevateds are never your great-great-grandfather's elevateds. It rides on a concrete viaduct, well sound-proffed, and lookes more like a Disney-Monorail than the NYCT subway train it is.
It is also a single track, making a loop through CoOp City rather than doing two tracks wide and doing a terminal somewhere.
Elias
Actually, these "modest" proposals are more than we're likely to see in the next 40 years. Yours are off-the-charts.
Here now is version 2 of my map, which basically just another way of dealing with the Co-Op City problem. More versions on the way!
-Alargule
Why not also do this for the 3/4 line?
The NYC Subway has served us well.
In 1904, they rang the bell.
The first R type was the R1,
Then more IND cars, all in a bun. ;D
Finally they were shared
with the BMT division.
Therefore NYCT cared
for both without fission.
Car fleet-wise, that is.
Then the IRT
went into the biz
and ordered the R forty.
(Wait a minute, wait a minute!)
Not the 40, but the 12 and the 14!
The IRT got the R15.
The BMT and IND got the R16.
The IRT got the R17.
After all the teen,
we went to the twenties.
After skipping 18, 20, and don't forget 19,
The IRT got the 21s and the twenty-twoies.
Skip the 23, skip the 24, and the 25.
Another IRT car? Ah, you bet!
The 26, 28 and 29 all went to the vet.
"Back to sealed storm door windows!",
NYC Transit said.
Please understand our hip young lingos,
the St. Louis Car company read.
Then they shifted to the combo div[ision].
So the St. Louis Car Company had to give
the R27s, R30s, and R30As
for around 120 thousand buckaroosays.
Shift back to the IRT now!
The 33 and the 36 came in and "wow!" (said the TA)
Then came the world's fair
and there was excitement in the air.
Thousands of people were there to care
about the fair and the outstanding color
of the world's fair cars.
Finally the shift to the
IRT's brahs,
The BMT and IND.
The R32/A came and boy it stunned azz.
Then came
a long reign
of cars for these two divs.
In the 1980's, the IRT thought,
"What gives?"
So in came the R62/A's
and out went the SMEE's.
Then came some cars for the other guys.
The R68/A's came about.
Graffitti erasure was reaching the highs.
The graffitti was clearing out.
It sure was a relief
to have the graffitti briefed.
Now we have the newest cars,
the 142/As and the 143s are the bomb!
Something you'd never find on Mars.
The New York City Subway System.
The most worshipped subway system in Sumerica.
This poem was arranged and typed by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn.
I hope you like it.
P.S.: The highest amount of poems I may reach is 20, the least is 10.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
What's this?
Bush forms 3-member panel to resolve rail dispute
President Bush on Saturday ordered the creation of a panel to resolve a long-running labor dispute between SEPTA and conductors on 13 regional rail lines.
The three-member emergency board will make recommendations within 30 days, said the announcement from the president's ranch in Crawford, Texas.
The conductors are represented by Local 61 of the United Transportation Union. SEPTA spokesman Richard Maloney said the dispute dates from 2000, and the two sides - divided mostly by wages - have been unable to reach agreement.
-----
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/8411674.htm
I remember once reading that somebody said "If you want to live like a Republican, vote Democratic" but who'd ever think that Republicans would be pushing for transit? And it's electrified transit in direct competition with what should be lucrative roadbuilding contracts for I-76 and Rt422 no less. Oh well, I guess elections and politics can make for some strange bedfellows. Of course since UTC Rotem is still no doubt on the list of PA political donators, they're bound to get something out of the SVM project contract, given that they just had the Silverliner 5 contract stripped from them. They'll probably end up either a subcontractor on the S5s or doing something with the power supply, signaling, or something else on the SVM.
Mark
Mark
Now Florida is supposed to be teh swing state, the papers keep saying the I-4 corridor is going to decide the election. If what wdobner says is true, i've been lied to, but I think it's the other way around; The rest of the county shouldn't bother to vote, it's what I say that goes. :)
But I've been reading something called CorridorOne and that's set to go next year for test runs or service, then this SVM junk.
You know what Florida's getting, the real 50/50 swing state?
We're LOSING 12 more cents per federal gas tax dollar. Instead of 86 cents, it's going to be 75 cents with the next TEA.
Real nice, Tampa Bay only get's 77cents, but that's because the transit sucks. We lost the olympics(NOT Orlando) because of that too. Which is a shame, maybe we would've gotten a Utah like thing going on. :(
Mark
: )
Not exactly. Willie Goode watched on TV in his office while police commissioner Gregore Sambor bombed a neighborhood.
It's amazing how crying racism works when 88% of a city is one race, including the administration.
Mark
The state itself did lose some population though. Remember how Ridge wanted to try to keep college grads from leaving the state? I'm not sure how much of a lose, but they did lose a house seat or two.
But hey, if SVM and corridorOne is a sucess, and it woudl be great if they connected, it's statistically great for the rest of the nation.
1990 population: 11,822,842
2000 population: 12,281,054
PA just lost one or two House seats because its percentage of the national population decreased due to very slow growth.
More recently, the universities themselves have been trying to keep people in the area. Penn has been a leader in these efforts, investing over $1 Billion in West Philadelphia over the last decade. Incentives have been offered to buy and maintain homes in the area, and Penn has collaborated with the Philadelphia School District to develop the Penn-Alexander Elementary School, which has dramatically raised local home values in Spruce Hill in the three years of its operation.
Philadelphia's situation is drastically improving. Population loss has slowed down to a relative trickle from the massive exodus of the 1960s-1980s. Within the next decade a population increase is likely to begin, provided that the economy picks up.
I have several more thoughts on the topic, but I've got to be heading to sleep.
James Aslaksen
SEAS '05
Most of the incentives offered for people to move to the area are for the Spruce Hill area, just west of campus. Very nice area.
Philadelphia is tops alongside Detriot for losing population while FL gained(along with every other state). But they get SVM. Who's left to vote???
Gore.....oops i mean Kerry '04.
*obviously i'm unsettled by the charade*
Mark
Florida had their chance in the spotlight in 2000, Jeb Boosh proved his ability to throw the election to his brother. Thus the RNC knows they're gonna win there unless something terrible happened for Bush, which Jeb couldn't cover up. The media no doubt already has a big red stamp on your state at CNN, ABC, CBS, NBS, FNC, and at least Comedy Central, you're just lucky that O'reilly hasn't called the election there for bush already! So bush has your 27 electoral votes all wrapped up and under his election tree already. YOU shouldn't bother to vote, your state is already decided, the RNC chooses to spend it's political power on other more deserving and potentially more dangerous states, like PA.
You guys are as much a swing state as New York!
Seriously, does anyone think Philadelphia or Pittsburgh is gonna vote for Bush? COME ON!
Florida, it could be worse, we could be California! Whens the next recall?
Mark
For all I know, if my paper was right and that was the national view, and I-4 was the swing area that's a dead 50/50 split. Maybe my vote alone will be the one that defines the 51% - 49% majority. :)
The thrills of self-importance i guess.
What is your problem? With the 15 billion spent on the Big Dig, we have basically halted highway building STATEWIDE for the next 10 years or so. They don't have any budget left. It's a great thing for transit.
AEM7
Mark
Not much space left under downtown Boston. The I-93 alignment was unsuitable for railroad vehicles, due to gradient and curvature.
and maybe spent a little of that 15 billion to put in real rapid transit to the south side of Boston in that big wedge between the Orange Line and the Red Line, instead of the Silver Line bus route.
What big wedge? The South side of Boston has a grand total of 3 transit lines (Braintree, Ashmont, Forest Hills); The North side has two (Oak Grove, Alewife). Somerville has been crying for a Green Line extension for about 20 years. While I do understand that Dudley Sq. is underserved, so is most of the north side. Just because the Washington St. Corridor people make the most noise doesn't mean there aren't other areas that lack real transit service.
AEM7
Or Am I wrong, I thought I read something about Birmingham wanting to bury a highway.
Mark
I think the big lesson from the Big Dig is that it is very expensive to do infrastructure improvements in the city (or any highly dense, built-up loaction). Whether this be transit or highway, basically you end up in a situation where you can't really do anything because it's too expensive. Take an example. Despite all the engineering and surveying work, the Big Dig managed to damage a MBTA Blue Line station and the whole station had to be rebuilt, on a grade no less. It's hard to build in an area that's already laden with older infrastructure.
The implication for large cities cannot be understated. It basically tells us: suburbs are [almost] always going to be the cheaper place to invest. Given the kind of land availability in North America, it is not likely that North American cities will be able to compete for available capital, given the low price of transportation (i.e., gasoline and transit) and energy (i.e. heat).
There are benefits to large cities -- cultural activities such as operas, shows, downtown flagship stores, etc. cannot occur in a bunch of loosely networked small towns. But apparently people are unwilling to pay the "price" to generate these cultural activities -- as evidenced by the fact that no one can afford to live in large cities anymore, except students with rich parents, yuppies, union labor workers living in less-than-ideal conditions, or immigrants living four-to-a-room.
It's a problem. And I might be wrong. I hope I am wrong. In the 60s, urban planning literature predicted the fall of cities; they were wrong. I hope I am wrong again. But, frankly, it has never been so obvious how expensive a city is to run.
Sprawl is cheap in the U.S. because we have lots of space and cheap gas. If either of those change, then our living patterns might, too.
Mark
If I can try and make this a bit less OT (involving New York), I think we all know of the Gowanus' current decrepit condition. OldNYC has a well-documented tour of the entire structure and some of the stanchions look like they're ready to collapse. :-0 Here's are some choice photos:
Well, I make this on-topic believe it or not. Check out some yard photos lurking around the Expressway.
Along side Third Avenue and 38th Street exists several railroad tracks. I believe that this yard is part of the subway system, however I don't know which lines utilize this yard. Maybe some OldNYC.com contributors can fill us in on this yards history and purpose. Whatever the yard is used for, it hasn't been properly maintained in some time. Garbage is strewn all over the place.
OldNYC.com contributor, and webmaster of nycroads.com Steve Anderson has our answer: "About the little-used rail yard at Third Avenue and 38th Street in Sunset Park: while there is a BMT subway yard nearby, there are a couple of tracks for the "South Brooklyn Railway" ("SBRW," according to my Hagstrom atlas). The short railroad is used to deliver subway cars between the BMT yard and the Bush Terminal Docks. There is more information about this topic at nycsubway.org: www.nycsubway.org/faq/deliver.html. The website "Forgotten New York" also has a feature on the South Brooklyn Railway and the Cross Harbor Railroad freight railroads: www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/Southbklyn/waterfront.html."
The 38th Street exit ramp descends from the Gowanus to the left of the yard.
According to the article, they probably are active. I also forgot to provide a link to the tour. Here it is.
*given the low price of transportation (i.e., gasoline and transit) and energy (i.e. heat). *
The resident is saddled with the expense and the not as much asthe government(though the gov't is getting upset lately). You won't believe how expensive car only transit becomes when the nearest mailbox is 5 miles down the "speedway". One reason for todays urban revival going on.
And I'm assuming it's everywhere, but when I look at the charts for how much apartments cost in those new suburbs, it's always close to the same price as new places in teh city(by Echelon or Post Park companies). Plus with paper thin walls.
A year ago I was comparing communities in those apartment guide books, I figured the most economical was in the bad side of town, which still was car only!
But, if they can charge 2grand a month for a tiny college apartment, I guess you can live a few more years with 3 overly annoying roommates to live downtown too, huh? I sure dont' want to anymore.
Maybe they should start building musuems around and over the expressways and cover them up. Start there possibly.
Did you ever look at how much it COST to build rather than what the PRICE is? There is a difference. You will likely find that while it is cheaper to build in the suburbs, the investors try to make a larger profit from their suburban developments. They also take a larger risk, because housing demand in the suburbs is patchier; in the city, often the development is sold out before it is completely constructed. So if you bought your own land and did your own permitting, and then built your own house, it will be infinitely cheaper in the suburbs.
A year ago I was comparing communities in those apartment guide books, I figured the most economical was in the bad side of town, which still was car only!
This explains why I live in Dorchester, MA (sandwiched between Roxbury, MA and South Boston, MA). The fact that I live there also means a working single mom or some other suchlike low-income resident is displaced. It's really quite disturbing how PRICE of housing is totally driven by demand and doesn't really relate to the COST or quality of construction (Did I mention that my house/apartment has a leaky roof, a wraped frame, the paint is chipping everywhere, and there's probably lead paint somewheres? At least we are up to fire and electric code.)
But, if they can charge 2grand a month for a tiny college apartment, I guess you can live a few more years with 3 overly annoying roommates to live downtown too, huh?
There's the city problem. It's a lifestyle I chose, since I did not choose to buy a car. I'm pretty happy (and don't have 3 annoying roommates), but I can see why someone wanting to have kids or just have a less hacky life might simply not be able to afford to live in the city.
That's what I always say, none of us or even the Sierra Club is going to stop you from building your own house on whatever land you choose. It's when a developer comes in, builds 4000 substandard houses and creates all this sprawl and taxes that get's everyone up in arms.
Plus if you built you're own, it will probably end up looking nicer than those pre-fab things that look like a giant garage.
This is the next procedural step in attempting to resolve a dispute as prescribed by the Railway Labor Act.
No more, no less......
My favorite Subtalker is OnTheJuice, because of the incredible amount of knowledge that he has brought here especially on the R142's, and the other things about New Tech. I've learned most to all of what I know about the R142's and new tech from him, and found most of his posts quite interesting and informative. Thanks CI Peter for sharing so much of what you know with us all, and helping to make this place a great source of information.
Naturally, my favorite thing about this place is the amount of knowledge that is here that as a member of the general public I wouldn't have a clue about.
Hopefully this place makes it to friday 4/16/2004 and I can enjoy the great things that subtalk brings.
PS- Do NOT turn this thread into a flame war
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
</marquee>
after the text you want to scroll.
Mark
while you're at it match your <FONT> tags too.
Every tag in HTML has a closing tag (there are a few exceptions like IMG, BR, HR). Whenever you sue a tag, make sure you match it with the appropriate closing tag.
<FONT> ... </FONT>
<MARQUEE> ... </MARQUEE>
<BLINK> ... </BLINK>
&c...
yet,
<IMG SRC="(url)" />
<BR /> <-- you don't need this one on SubTalk anyway.
Seriously ... bring it on ... it'd be a tremendous improvement over the other stuff, and actually ON TOPIC! Woo-woo!
Now on the topic of DefJef. How much can a person with one post a day cause. The answer is not much. Now if you ask me(which nobody has, but whatever)DefJef really isnt that bad. What IS problematic is the fact that we have posters who are extremely offended by... nothing. They say it takes 2 to have a fight, and well these have to be one of the most onesided fights ive ever seen. DefJef isnt the Agressor here.
4traintowoodlawn is. It is very hard to get on my bad side. nobody here is, so this isnt is spite, but there is one thing about 4traintowoodlawn that bugs me. In fact, this is one of the things that bugged me about CC Local. Their Hippocritical Deification of the Killfile. Both of continuously tries/ed to insult people by saying that someone is on their killfile. and in both cases, through their responses, they have proven that people whom they have said were on their killfile werent really there as, you CANNOT have(through simple means) the first response to a post by somebody on your killfile. That said, I dont dislike anyone here,(not even DefJef-- he has some quite entertaining posts) I'mjust airing my greivances.
***Disclaimer-- the above wepresents the Ideas aof a poster on this board, "LincolN", and while more than one person may agree with this, it doesnt necessarily represent their opinion.
Agreed. I did say that his posts are spam but some are quite amusing so I just sit back and laugh at the whole thing b/c its in no need of a response. I say there are Subtalkers who are worse than this character but I won't say any names. The problem: SOME TAKE THIS PLACE TOO SERIOUSLY! That is all....
I have learned more than I could have hoped to with a lifetime of independent research just by reading the pages on this site and the posts here - between the MTA employees and those simply "in the know," there is well more than a wealth of knowledge to be shared here.
I know I don't post much in the conventional subway threads, but that's because I'm just reading and learning all these cool things.
I often wonder how many fellow SubTalkers I've shared a train with; I probably should know since we've probably fought over a position in front of the railfan window :)
Thanks David for running this great site!
And I'm sure who says what on some internet message board isn't part of that 1%.
No offense, but SILENCE in the face of adversity is the TRUE sign of heroism in the face of those others who choose to be phucktards. Folks here have the option of getting along and enhancing the discussion, or they can be just another 12-9. Moo. :)
til next time
I ain't trying to defend or side with Def, But he's not the problem. It's the people responding to him. Not only are posters arguing with Def. But also posters among themselves.
Also what is a R450?
People need to stop complaining about a non-existant problem.
An error has occured
The server could not find the message (689823) you requested. Perhaps it has been expired or deleted, or you followed a broken link
til next time
There have been an number of posts that were off topic, posts that strayed into political discussion that where off topic, posts that were trolls looking to get some kind of response and posts that were total nonsense.
Some people here have a thin skin.
The way to maintain civil discussion here is to thicken up your skin and ignore the stuff that obviously does not belong here and move on to bigger and better conversation.
Over all the vast majority of the postings here have been fun to read and very informative for all.
John
I have no doubt that this place will continue to exist. However, I would not be surprised if certain well-respected and well-liked posters here grow tired of the stupid threads of the past few days and weeks (like countless accusations of trolling, "I can use the marquee tag" and general OT-ness). Such people I doubt would go in some absurd prima donna-ish flame; they will just stop posting here.
In case anyone wishes to construe things from this: no, I am not leaving (nor would I claim to be either much respected or much liked) - at least not yet - if I were, I wouldn't waste my time posting this.
Oh and I'm deliberately not closing my tags on this post. Please don't find smart-assed ways of filling the next week and a half's SubTalk with Re: THIS THREAD IS STUPID.
#3 West End Jeff
Wow. I like that word. Has disagree, argue, and agreements in one word, and I like how you put a Southern style pronouncement of the "arguments", like you're saying "ar-gee-ments". Wheee doggies.
Argue would require a U, which the word Disagreements (or Disargeements) does not have.
#3 West End Jeff
-Chris
-Chris
Robert
But the cars themselves ARE ready for it. The *GOOD* news is that ATO is another story. You might remember my tales of playing with the 143's (8101-8108) prior to acceptance - that was one of the things that was being played with by the Kawa folks - I got "handle time" on MTA property, but rest assured - the COMPUTER was running the train if I wasn't fast enough. And I told the story of "OK, forget what you know for once - just keep it in parallel until you PASS the jailbars. NOW give it a full serve" ... fuzzer stopped at the damned marker ALL BY ITSELF ... in all my years of "handle time," I NEVER felt so USELESS in the broom closet. The 143's (and to only a slightly lesser extent the 142A's [NOT the straight up 142's, they have "issues" and will require a GOH for automation]) are equipped with Rose the Robot in that awful controller handle. I got the REASON for "who cares if it makes your hand go numb?" when *I* got to run the first set of 143's with the "special harness" attached. :(
So no surprise really - it WON'T be a retrofit - it'll be DELIVERY of the electronics they originally DESIGNED those cars for ... but are you out of a job? Nosiree ... we ALL know how useful computers can be when push comes to shove - hell, look at the master towers. :)
Today's NY Post has a article about a new guy in town with a plan for Red Hook. No, it doesn't include trolleys.
IKEA is the other player who promises 500 jobs & $6 million in tax revenue, while the new guy (Struever Bros., Eccles & Rouse of Baltimore) plans a residential/commericial plan covering 70 acres & 7,000 million square feet, i.e. the whole hook (both sides of the inlet). One of the commercial zones is smack dab where Bob's trolleys are currently housed.
Marinas, promenades & town houses along the waterfront ... can you say millions in profits for the developer ? Could they at least think about how a light rail line would fit right in ?
Not to mention crappy furniture that falls apart after six month (like our sofa) but nevertheless sells well because it's grotesquely overhyped as being "trendy."
TOLD YOU the DOLLAR WAS IN THE TOILET! THANK YOU SHRUB for making it nearly impossible to afford ANYTHING. FOUR MORE YEARS! (Oh GOD, make it stop!) ... :(
Check it out!
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=4744821
I guess you guys can run a trolly in the MASSIVE parking that will be built.
What good is Carolina? It's South of the Mason-Dixon.
Because they can build furniture without running to their unions complaining how they might actually work for under 50grand a year, not goof off for 8 hour days, and actually go to jail when they brake the law.
There's a reason why Concorde was the furniture capital and not Delaware.
Have you talked to a certain Senator Edwards lately? In particular, have you talked to him about Union activities in his home state?
and actually go to jail when they brake the law.
Time to put parking brakes on the law, huh?
I actually think the kind of progressive labor laws we have up here in the North is exemplary. Maybe unions down South goof off for 8 hours a day, but we don't do that up here in MA. Union activity is not nonexistent down there, either.
And I'm sorry, you actually believe things get done in those Northern offices? I cringe everytime I have to send something north of the mason dixon to get done now, because as the last 20 years taught me, I'm never seeing whatever I mailed out again.
And yea, I bet SEPTA is really well known for not having frivilous union rules or lawsuits. Did they ever finish putting in those 120 toliets for the womens room at the West Philly Depot?
Things get done in my office. I work in a Northern office. I don't know about the others.
AEM7
God NO!! haha. Seriously though. The image of unions goofing off up here in the Northeast really isn't true. Union is just a way of organizing collective bargaining. While there have been well documented cases of problems, if the firm operates in a competitive environment, there really isn't too much power to a union (since the company always has the option of going bankrupt and voiding employment contracts). I've worked with Union people, and I currently work in the non-Union sector, and believe me, I would rather someone else bargained for my wages on my behalf, instead of having to face the bossman myself.
The "inability" to get anything done cheaply in a Northeast office reflects more the cost of doing business in this highly developed zone. Let's take an example: you can buy prime beef for about $1~$3 a pound in the Midwest, and here it's anywhere between $4 and $8 a pound. Why? People talk about transportation costs, but really transportation is only some 10%~15% of the cost of producing beef on a supermarket shelf. There's labor involved in slaughtering, there's real estate involved in warehousing and shopfront, there's the fact that it's perishable, there's the fact that there is labor involved in scanning the beef through the supermarket checkout. Now, consider, in the Northeast, all those people gotta have a roof over their home and gotta eat, and gotta pay the same kind of high prices for their own produce. Thus they need a "living wage" and all that has to be absorbed into the cost of produce you and I buy. No wonder stuff is f**king expensive up here -- creating the illusion that it's the lazy union bums that cause it. It's not. It's what happens in a highly dense city and highly developed economy. If you go to the slums and observe the standards of living in the city by unskilled labor folks, compared to that in the rural middle-of-nowhere for the same population segment... it's not too dissimilar.
As for the Northeast being inefficient, and things disappear in the mail... I don't know why that happens, and I have also had bad experiences with mail up here. Someone else can tell me. I only know about economics. Not about mail.
Unions have/had their place. Keeps checks and balances going on. But there's a few jobs or industries that during labor shortages and a good economy where unions are unneeded. Example, Tech jobs or hotel jobs a few years ago.
And some of those guys, especially Philly's convention center and transit agency that just go too far and the national spotlight goes on them.
In New York at least, no doubt elsewhere too, unionization is highest among government workers, and among workers in the taxpayer-subsidized health and social service fields. These are areas where there is little competition.
Is that a cause, or an effect? The reason unionization rates are high in government jobs is not just because they are noncompetitive. The reasons are: (1) They offer low wages compared to equivalent positions in the private sector; (2) The government sector managers have been least aggressive in Union-busting; (3) The government sector is controlled politically, and the incumbent Unions are an influence in elections.
AEM7
Them's fightin' words, boy...
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse from Bunn, North Carolina
Has anyone tried walking to the IKEA store in New Jersey? It's a joke.
What's going to happen to the trolleys? Can he donate or move them???I'm sure there's plenty of places that would love to have another trolley or two.
:)
It's an area in need of development, and light rail should help things.
For argument's sake, note that Ikea does run free shuttle-bus service from Manhattan to Elizabeth, so it isn't 100% auto demand.
Ikea stores are destinations in and of themselves* and therefore could do well in otherwise-desolate areas. They're not dependent on local shopping traffic.
*= Why? Maybe people are going for the Swedish meat balls served in the store cafe, which admittedly are pretty decent.
I agree, but lack of access to Red Hook, mostly vehicular, has caused the death of a couple of past Ikea proposals. Even the people who want the jobs don't want the traffic. I don't know if light rail would have an impact or not.
Yes, and the Gowanus (ugh), access will be EZ in EZ out. Yeah right.
There aren't a lot of routes into and out of Red Hook. Traffic from the Battery Tunnel still has to get to the site on local streets. Because of Red Hook's isolation, everyone else has to get there on the same local streets.
And wouldn't it be cool if people could ride a Swedish Meatball on their way to go eat swedish meatballs?
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
:)
Honestly, it's fun at first, but the novelty starts to wear off when you can only save 10 cents on a notebooks made in China(wal-marts largest trading partner I believe).
They also say that if big box stores like wal-mart or home depot continue to grow in the next few years liek they grew in the last 15, there will only be one or two retail stores left in America. Free capitalism huh?
Just say no.
Takin from some anti-sprawl site:
" In this ten year period, Iowa lost:
555 Grocery stores
298 Hardware stores
293 Building Supply Stores
161 Variety Stores
158 Women's Apparel stores
153 Shoe Stores
116 Drug Stores
111 Men's and Boys Apparel store
People have said to me: "When Wal-Mart arrives, they hit the town with the force of 100 new businesses opening at once". The demise of smaller, independent businesses in Iowa suggests that the "retail hurricane" theory is true. Ston"
Ikea is still big box, it's all the same to me.
Where's the evidence? The "proff"?
and substandard jobs.
That much is true.
Wal-mart is the biggest store, but did you know Wal-mart is also the largest landholder of vacant properties in the US?
Yup -- vacant property they are holding for strategic reasons; either to prevent someone else from developing a big box store there, or are waiting for the right market timing to develop a big store of their own. They pay property taxes, don't they? So what's your problem?
Honestly, it's fun at first, but the novelty starts to wear off when you can only save 10 cents on a notebooks made in China(wal-marts largest trading partner I believe). They also say that if big box stores like wal-mart or home depot continue to grow in the next few years liek they grew in the last 15, there will only be one or two retail stores left in America. Free capitalism huh?
They are subject to anti-trust just like everybody else, you know?
Just say no.
Give us a rational reason. Demise of local small businesses really isn't a good reason -- those things are damned expensive both to run and to buy stuff from.
AEM7
That's the technical term for them, blight. It's well agreed an ugly box encased in a huge piece of parking lot is not attractive or humanistic. They also consider the eckards and walgreens on every corner a form of blight too.
*They pay property taxes, don't they? So what's your problem? *
An abandonded storefront or big box is blight, it devalues the neighbhorhood, and it brings in crime. Most of wal-marts vacant holdings are regular wal-marts they abandonded when they built a super-walmart down the street. And since they put everyone out of business, I doubt they get a buyer of that building easy when they have the super-wal-mart next door.
-----
I guess I shouldn't have expected someone in the megalopolis to get what i'm saying. The rest of the nation is in this battle though.
Would you rather have on store open up with 500 "jobs" and it's property taxes? Sounds good at first? No. not when you take in consideration of your net. When a wal-mart opens, all stores in the area suffer a huge loss. You may get an immediate 500 jobs at first, but when all the other stores let people go, and possibly close, you're net is negative. Not to mention the trade deficit, and the wal-mart economy.
As far as property taxes go, maybe not all the stores, but those distribution centers, Wal-mart loves to play hardball. They blackmail an area and have the counties compete with each other to see who can give the largest tax breaks on the land. This happened in Jacksonville and Georgia.
It's been textbook proven in a billion spots.
Just say no
----
Regionally, I heard a good quote. Wal-mart is like vultures, they look for a dying rural area and destroy it. I see no reason to spend $120million to widen one of my favorite roads so they can move in, and in comes from tract housing and the droughts. No one lives there no, and no one needs to ruin the next area.
Don't abuse that term: blight n.
2. An extremely adverse environmental condition, such as air pollution. 3. Something that impairs growth, withers hopes and ambitions, or impedes progress and prosperity.
It's only an urban blight once it is abandoned. It's not a blight as long as it stays open. Yes, there is insensitive urban design (e.g. parking lot in front of the store, so pedestrians have to walk from the curb through the parking lot to get to the store), but that's an urban design issue. Not a blight. You can prevent that kind of urban design from taking hold by using zoning rules, by issuing permits selectively, or by attaching conditions to the said permits. As much as I don't like the look of "big box" stores, they are actually very efficient -- all you need is to change the look. There is no reason to change the concept of having everything in one store. That's too convenient. You can have a big box store right on top of a transit stop like they do in Japan. Ever heard of SOGO?
An abandonded storefront or big box is blight, it devalues the neighbhorhood, and it brings in crime. Most of wal-marts vacant holdings are regular wal-marts they abandonded when they built a super-walmart down the street.
You can't really stop towns from sprawling when land is so cheap, and farming is so efficient that you don't need that much land to feed the population. The only thing you can do is enable that sprawl to occur more sensitively. The way to do that is to construct transit (and indeed highways) in such a way that encourages higher density development and reserved areas of green space. In a middle-of-nowhere small town, you can prevent this kind of phenomenon with abandoned Walmart being next door to SuperWalmart by (1) refusing to issue the SuperWalmart permit without some kind of mitigation, e.g. requirement to turn the old Walmart into an urban park; (2) zone in such a way as to prevent the SuperWalmart from being constructed, by zoning in a mixed-use fashion. Admittedly you'd have to control quite a bit of real estate to do that (the next town is always ready to steal your business if you don't cooperate with developers). Alas, the concept is there, and if all the town officials learned this, it might work.
I guess I shouldn't have expected someone in the megalopolis to get what i'm saying.
I've stayed in Ohio enough to understand the issue, and I happen to see a different solution to what you see. You talk about killing Walmart-like growth. I talk about "smart" growth.
You may get an immediate 500 jobs at first, but when all the other stores let people go, and possibly close, you're net is negative. Not to mention the trade deficit, and the wal-mart economy.
I fail to see why this is a problem. Your costs go down proportionately when the small stores close. You can also raise rates for Walmart once they have taken hold. You could have a property tax scheme where the tax is based on both value and land area. There are lots of ways of doing this. Fighting Walmart is not one, and it deprives the citizens of a very good way to shop for their life necessities.
but those distribution centers, Wal-mart loves to play hardball. They blackmail an area and have the counties compete with each other to see who can give the largest tax breaks on the land.
No reason to compete for jobs in that kind of manner. Hey if county officials are stupid and want to sell their family silver, you really can't help them. They are voted in. They represent the masses. You gotta work with them. You gotta do the WIN-WIN.
AEM7
Hey, so educate me. I am basing my schipel on two opinions: (1) I like shopping in big box stores, (2) I hate shopping in local small time stores, since they don't carry the merchandize I want and they have a higher cost base so I pay more for the same thing. The rest is just analysis to back up my preferences (because I believe I am economically rational). I'm all ears now that John J. Blair has spoken. What was the fault in my reasoning?
AEM7
But they will order it for you.
I'm finding that Home Depot is turning into another "Mc Job" kind of place, i.e. remember when they first opened ? You could find an expert in every row. Now just try to find someone & if you do and ask then a question be prepaired for them to give you a dumb look :-(
My hardware guy knows exactly what I'm looking for and if he doesn't carry it he'll tell me where to go. I was looking for a ax handle last week & he pointed me to three stores (I found it).
Quality of help at Home Depot tends to vary inversely with the health of the economy. When the economy's strong, many of the knowledgable people who came to work at Home Depot during recessionary periods leave to work construction, for much more money, forcing Home Depot to hire people with less knowledge.
Our Home Depot is staffed almost entirely by idiots. I rely on a local independent lumberyard/hardware/paint store for nearly everything; the only thing I buy at Home Depot is light bulbs, as their price is usually half to one-third of anyone else's (including Wal*Mart).
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
I wish I could. I have two lamps that take Edison-base bulbs, and I use 100W-equivalent flourescents in everything else. The two (!) Home Depots on College Point Boulevard carry neither.
Plenty of the flourescents available in Eatontown and Neptune... although I don't use any that large (60W equivalent is my max).
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
And HD's is apparently 75 :)
At your HD... the two near me carry 100W equivalents. I do have one that I purchased there in an outside light (forgot about that one earlier).
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Fortunately, despite Wal*Mart and Homer's, we STILL have real hardware stores, real electric supply houses and real lumberyards. Ripped out all the Homer's crap, bought REAL stuff and haven't had any problems for years. Bottom line, they're not only a McJob, they're a McWaste of money.
*and farming is so efficient that you don't need that much land to feed the population*
There was actually a newspaper article about the rising price in Dairy products yesterday. And the state of florida now has a "milk deficit" where it has to import from other states. Thought that was interesting. I do wonder wonder how long it'll be until we're forced to drink Brazilian orange juice because of sprawl(loss of farmland).
------
*Fighting Walmart is not one, and it deprives the citizens of a very good way to shop for their life necessities. *
Just like highways, I don't fight everysingle one just because they're talking about it. I'm all for if they want to expand the super-wal-mart here. Everyone else will have a huge drop in sales however.
I just see no need in some places to put these things up, and the macro effects is what kills you. I don't need or want a Toll Road and a super-wal-mart in the middle of nowhere. And SR415 has noone on it to shop there now. If i follow the story, I think it's going to teach me Wal-mart is actually a "growth" engine too, they talk about it destroying the rural character of a region.
I've shopped in big box stores too, I try to spread my dollar around through to everyone. I personally loved Carefoure, which is everywhere but the US now.
----
*Your costs go down proportionately when the small stores close. You can also raise rates for Walmart once they have taken hold.*
Microsoft and Netscape. Loss leader until everyone's out of business then you raise rates and screw everyone?
There's 9 states where it's illegal to sell gas below what the operator paid for it. And it's for that reason. All i Need is wal-mart with it's watered down Murphey USA gas controling the board.
---------
I got that usage of the word blight from elsewhere. Is that the common mistake calling trains, trams, streetcars, etc?
Though I could stretch the meaning out to reflect: *or impedes progress and prosperity.*
Or simply, what's "Progress"?
Myself included. I love the Wal-mart neighbhorhood market. One opened across from a Publix supermarket, I wonder what effect that had. And the wal-mart has no human being cashiers either, it's all self-serve.
----
To be terse: My problem is when they turn to sprawl-mart building in the middle of nowhere ruining an area(which I say the same about Publix actually), and why's it all Chinese. I went into one once looking for a notebook. They had some one-subject books for one whole dime cheaper and it said "Made in China". I think at that point that's a few steps too far. I spent the extra .10 cents and got a Made in the USA book.
The talk about if Home Depot or Wal-mart grows the same way in the next 6 as the last 6 years they're have 100% of the market is scary.
And supertarget, all I'm gonna say is; Ever see "One Hour Photo"?
Good for you. The trade deficit is not Wal-Mart's problem. It's Bush's problem. If you want to lobby someone about the Chinese made stuff, write your Congressman. Walmart isn't at fault for looking for the cheapest merchandize within (barely) legal constraints. If you want to change the legal constraints to allow Americans to get jobs making notebooks, Bush is the person you gotta be talking to. Walmart is just a corporation. All they do is minimize their cost function. They don't care. Bush is supposed to care. He's our presdient, and we elect him in a [electoral college] vote.
Walmart is not the problem. They'll be great if the law forces them to do what they do in a more sustainable and American way.
AEM7
My local congressman is responsible for letting Siemens replace workers with Indians on special visa's. No lie, he did the bill, and refuses to acknowledge the displaced workers. No lie.
And a company that is founded on polluting sprawl is my problem. You gotta get out of the megalopis to see what happens when you build a town from nothing. it's not good.
When a company comes in and shuts everyone down, it's my concern. Loss of tax and property tax revenue is bad.
And a company using cheap imports only, well I guess that's my problem too, any recent ghost town in any part of America is all our problems.
When they build a road near me and bring in 20,000 new people so I can't get from point A to B, that's a huge my problem. And my biggest problem.
---
We're you one of the people against me on the train thread regarding tracks should be public or private? If you were, how can you be for regulating wal-mart, but not a transportation infrastructure?
----
Either way you won't see me at an anti-wal-mart rally, except to widen SR 415, there's enough people that won't let them build those big box nightmares already.
And when it goes to "Sprawl"-mart, then it comes into my personal arena.
You make it sound like the municipality pays your wages.
Were you one of the people against me on the train thread regarding tracks should be public or private? If you were, how can you be for regulating wal-mart, but not a transportation infrastructure?
I think I was one of those people who pointed out that privately owned train tracks can attract a lot of investment if the right kind of incentives are given, and that there is no reason for anything to be public. I stand by that view. I see no reason why private industries should not be subject to government regulation -- although incentives are generally better than regulation. In the case of Wal-mart building their mega plazas and creating bad urban design, incentives or regulation are needed to correct the perceived problem.
Or to put it simply, and if you're paying attention, for every 500 jobs created, there's probably 3-10 times more that are lost... This was Englands same concern when the Baltic states just joined the EU. Flood of non-tax payers using social services.
Your argument reduces down to: inefficiency is great because inefficiency keep more people employed than necessary and therefore everyone is worse off, but there is less income disparity because everybody has nearly nothing (instead of some people having totally nothing and others having more than enough). Frankly, I prefer the income gap than the socialistic, homogenious equality. The people that lose jobs when Walmart come in might have lost their small business, but on the other hand if they were enterprising enough they would reinvent themselves and find something else to do. If everyone's standard of living is to improve, you have got to get rid of economic inefficiency, and sometimes that involves laying people off from less efficient operations and moving them to more efficient ones.
AEM7
-------
My arguement reduces down to lassez-faire capitalism, monopolies from Rockefeller to Standard Oil, and Teddy "trust buster" Roosevelt.
Or at least that's what I hope my argument mirrors.
And one Wal-mart employing less people than they put out of work, doesn't provide a vibrant, self supporting community free of lead pipes.
but there is less income disparity because everybody has nearly nothing (instead of some people having totally nothing and others having more than enough).
That's true to an extent, but when Caldor was put under, there's a lot more to a store than Clerks and stockers. Lots of managers, buyers, merchandisers, HR idiots(yea), etc...
Take Checkers or Bahama Breeze, you would not believe how much some of those guys make...plus those smaller offices. It all ripples down....suppliers, truckers, the advert printers, banks, etc....
----------
But my favorite Wal-mart practice? The practice of taking out life insurance policies on it's employees payable to the company. Too bad they stopped that one.
Advantages of the Navy Yard:
(1) Large available space
(2) close proximity to a highway (BQE)
(3) Just across the river from Manhattan
Also, better subway access than Red Hook, via York Street on the F.
Not really, it depends on where in the Navy Yard it would be situated.
scroll down to Tue, Apr 13 2004 if necessary
Terminus
Your pal,
Fred
He just described Money Train perfectly :)
207 Street
Manhattan
Rockaway Park
Queens
JFK Express
The R46 ahead of us was doing a battery run from Jay to KH.
The R32 we were in was running local behind a G at Bergen, then did a battery run from Church Ave to KH with at stop at 18th Ave in between.
I tried to take a picture of the rollsigns but pushed the wrong button and lost a great opportunity.
What a way to brighten up the Brighton Line; taking photos of trains at Newkirk Ave, and treating yourself to delicious ice cream afterwards.
Bill "Newkirk"
Please stop responding to DefJef. SubTalk is becoming a dark and dreary community because nobody will stop responding to DefJef. SubTalk is becoming so dark and dreary that I have almost come to crying, yes crying, because SubTalk has been such a dark and dreary community because you guys will not ignore DefJef.
This is the last time I will say this:
If the community does not stop responding to DefJef by next Monday, I know people like aem7, DefJef, and wdobner will be pleased, but,
I will leave SubTalk permanently and be active at BusTalk where DefJef does not run rampant.
I don't care if you don't take me seriously, but just at least take my advice, ignore DefJef, and SubTalk will be a bright, happy, and sunny community once again.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Then who will be crying?
And Yes, I replied to his post. But only once. Where if i was a motorman and i found him getting "busy" in my cab what would happen. :)
And Yes, I replied to his post. But only once. Where if i was a motorman and i found him getting "busy" in my cab what would happen. :)
I managed to keep my nose out of that BS until last night, and now I'm relieved to see that my infraction has disappeared.
Oh well, so ends my quarterly Flame-war, now it's back to transit subjects for me.
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
What has DefJef done to you?
Seems like many are blowing this far out of proportion.
The guy is eleven years old, so give him a break!
My advice to 4train: don't blow this out of proportion, just leave this DefJef character be and he will (eventually) stop with his harassing posts (from my judgement, BTW, the guy is just irritating and lives in his own fantasy world...so give him a break).
This is not a children's board. People of all ages are welcome here, but if you cannot conduct yourself in a mature fashion, you don't belong here. If an 11 year old posts here, good for him, but he should not act like a stereotypical 11 year old while posting to the board.
Thank you.
-Jon
In other words, they're going to allow left turns at intersections where over 20 cars illegally turned left and got hit by trains(we don't know how many people illegally went and didn't get hit!). So those bad drivers will get what they want.
BUT, instead of having a train give a wave of green lights which was supposed to make it easier to drive downtown, all the law abiding folks will have a 4 way red light when the train passes through.
Way to go!
------------------------------
More left turns to be allowed on rail line
METRO HAS BEEN pounding the message into drivers' heads: Do not make illegal left turns along the Main Street light rail line.
This week, however, there will be two fewer intersections where that rule applies.
The transit authority's first light rail line has been plagued by vehicles driving into trains. There have been 33 collisions, including two pedestrians who have wandered into the trains' path. Metro police cite illegal turns as the cause for 20 of the crashes, and most of those have been left turns.
Dozens of signs are posted along the 7 1/2-mile route instructing drivers to keep moving straight ahead, but many motorists seem intent on turning where they wish.
--------
A safety evaluation by the Texas Transportation Institute, which Metro ordered in response to the collisions, recommends granting some of those wishes by removing turn prohibitions at some intersections to allow better traffic flow. Now that Metropolitan Transit Authority engineers have finished adjusting traffic signals in Midtown and the Museum District to turn lights red in all directions when trains approach an intersection, they are looking at locations where turn restrictions can safely be removed.
Later this week, "no left turn" signs are expected to come down on Holman and McGowen streets at Main. East-west traffic on those two Midtown streets will be allowed to make left turns onto Main.
That's the good drivers loosing out part. I understand if you're driving in the direction the train is, you get a green light the whole way. now you gotta sit there.
I dont' know about the left turns. I think in some spots you can make a left if the signal says so and there's no train, maybe there's a few where there's no left period.
Eitehr way, it's a downtown, and they said to just go one block over and make a left there! You're driving a car, don't be that lazy that a block is too much!
I would like to thank those like SINY_R143, GP38 Chris, (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen, and others who actually HELPED me here and were true friends.
Goodbye forever. But I will still be active at BusTalk where DefJef does not run rampant.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Please explain where I said I'd be pleased if you left.
til next time
2 of the following 2 things will persuade me to come back:
I) If more than half of the community (statistically) wants me to come back.
II) If the community stops responding to DefJef and he leaves.
Thank you.
Chuck ;-)
You must do those things that are important to you regardless of what others may or may not do.
You cannot stop DefJef from posting. You cannot stop others from replying to him.
You can choose not to reply to him
and you can choose not to let him bother you.
Those two things are within your power and control, the others are not.
Stick Around, we enjoy your company more than we do others around here. But we have no control over that either, eh?
Elias
I) If more than half of the community (statistically) wants me to come back.
You see, you want attention from most of SubTalk, otherwise you won't have fun here.
II) If the community stops responding to DefJef and he leaves.
You just feel bad that someone gets more attention than you.
If you continue to post like this, count me as one of the people who wants you to STAY OUT.
P.S.: To David Pirmann: If I say another thing about DefJef or another worthless off-topic post, PLEASE revoke my membership. Thank you.
I'm back, SubTalk. And BTW, that poll about whether I should stay or go, call it off. Mr. Pirmann, please remove this whole thread, and I am back to stay until I die. I will also go back to my poems about the New York City Subway System.
P.P.S.: I am sorry to all of SubTalk for everything--participating in flame wars, almost leaving, and blowing that thread Dave deleted way out of proportion. I am back.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I wrote one for a college writing class inspired by an LIRR steam locomotive carcas rotting in a field by the college.
The professor was not all that impressed with how I ended it, but I was not all that impressed with his idea on how it ought to have ended, and so when the class was over, I changed it back...
"Ode to a Mighty Machine Devoured by a Clock"
Elias
You're OBVIOUSLY attention-starved (something the 'rents arent giving ya)
and for some1 whose only been here a shorty brief jiggy while
u should NOT fly off-the-handle and flame fellow brahs in a poema.
I've been on the board since 2000, and while some peeps here get my jalapeno,
it takes some getting used to--- we brahs aint all that krazy glue.
Translation: blend in & enjoy the scenery.
Now lets all please pretty please STFU and get back to the Trains, boiz.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Your wish is my command! ;-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Please ignore my post :)
Wow, I wasn't even online all day, and this is what I see. WTF? AND YES I know that you are not leaving. GOOD. I'm sorry to see that you were leaving and it is good that you changed your mind. This place is a great place if you make it that way. If you see something you don't like , just don't even acknowledge it. Good thing your taking this advice. Just a bit more advice.
>I know that you are happy about your newly acquired HTML skills, but so many marquee messages are not necessary. I personally do not really mind, but they are not really necessary that often.
>The poems. Great stuff. YES, you should continue to post them on this board, but you should *ALSO* start your own website for FREE on freewebs.com. Extremely easy way to put all the poems you want and you can link the poem pages to SubTalk. Not to mention, it also supports HTML, so that you can put as many scrolling messages as you want.
>YES, YES, DefJef doesn't exist to you anymore, but I am aware that he has emailed you. You have MSN right?(I don't I have AOL) You should just block his email.
>That is all.
Thank you, Ben, for staying on SubTalk and continuing to contribute.
-Chris
[Damn proud of my fantasy map] Grand Concourse
Such a shame I never got a chance to fully get a good idea of what kind of person you are 4traintowoodlawn, but I'm not going to care if you leave or not since well you seemed to really mouth off about a fantasy map that I made [w/more effort than you'll ever appreciate] and sure easy for you to go on and on about 'I wouldn't make him an MTA chairman' or 'look at the track maps' - look I know about the subways too as well as the tracks, but I did my map more for a personal entertainment and perhaps based on some stuff that my friends asked me to do. If you had made a map on your own, then I would've understand your disagreements to some degree. So good luck on bustalk, but my advice is to open up and stop being so narrow minded about other ppl's works.
[Damn proud of my fantasy map] Grand Concourse
PCL was building a $70million dollar causeway bridge. It had to be demolished and built over last year. It was supposed to be open back in March now. It's about 90% finished structurally and needs to be blown up and started over again now.
PCL is building a $400 million dollar tolled reversable lane bridge on the crosstown in TPA. There was some problems with some of the piers, but this one too COLLAPSED this morning.
TAMPA - A portion of the Lee Roy Selmon Expressway's elevated expansion collapsed this morning closing part of the toll road. One of the piers supporting the road sunk 20-feet into the ground, causing the segment it was supporting to collapse, said expressway spokeswoman PerryDawn Brown.
The cause was under review early Tuesday, but Brown mentioned heavy rains and high winds may have played a role.
----
I'm sorry but if you can't build something in florida that can withstand heavy wind and heavy rain, it has no place or meaning to exists.
Meanwhile the electric trolley under investagation for one misplaced bill is still rolling problem free.
And I complain about 1.4billion going to the defective I-4, I should be concerned with the $470,000,000 flushed down the toliet in this section instead.
-------------
Daily News
Apr 12, 04:44 PM
Printer-friendly format
Apr. 11--Millions of New Yorkers are passing up buses and subways each month since last year's 50-cent fare hike -- but the empty seats aren't hurting the MTA's bottom line.
The 33 percent fare increase pumped more than $261 million into the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's coffers, even though an average of 6.6 million fewer passengers rode buses and subways each month.
While officials blame the nearly 4 percent decline in ridership on many factors, including August's blackout and a cold and snowy winter, some riders clearly are shunning the trains and buses for economic reasons.
College student Keith Williams of Coney Island said when the base fare went to $2 from $1.50, he started cutting back on subway trips.
"I walk more than I take the train now," Williams, 20, said at the Times Square station. "College students have to try and save money. [The extra] 50 cents is hard when you don't have it."
Unlimited-ride MetroCards, like the $21 weekly pass, reduce the cost of a ride the more they are used. But Williams echoed other cash-strapped riders who said they can't afford to shell out that kind of dough regularly.
Irma Vasquez, 49, of Jersey City, who bought a single ride ticket at Times Square recently, said she, too, has changed her travel patterns.
"I'm taking less trips because it's too expensive," said Vasquez, who is out of work.
Each of the months following the May 1, 2003, fare increase saw a decline in ridership over the same period the previous year. But the drop varied wildly: In September, there were barely 1 million fewer riders than the previous September, but August saw ridership drop more than 17 million from the year before.
MTA spokesman Tom Kelly said the increase in fare revenues has fallen short of what the MTA expected and isn't enough to cover debt service, rising health care costs and other expenses that has the MTA projecting a budget gap of about $540 million next year.
Officials have vowed to keep the base fare at $2, but have hinted they may cut MetroCard discounts. And last week, MTA Executive Director Katherine Lapp told agency heads to cut their budgets to bridge the gap.
Gene Russianoff of the Straphangers Campaign said ridership declines traditionally follow fare hikes and eventually rebound. But he said he's hoping lawmakers -- not riders -- provide any new bailouts.
"I'm worried," Russianoff said. "Their financial situation is serious. Like the MTA, I'm looking to the governor, legislators and mayor to prevent riders from taking it on the chin."
-----
To see more of the Daily News, or to subscribe to the newspaper, go to http://www.NYDailyNews.com
(c) 2004, Daily News, New York. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News.
It's amazing what a couple of days without electricity does to ridership figures.
NO! Think about what you are saying. The article said that the fare increase more than compensates for the loss of riders. So they should increase the fare even more, because they haven't reach the point of maximizing revenues yet. (If economics was their only concern.)
AEM7
Maybe I should go look for one of those charts to see if there's a formula I can use, but isn't it the same as fast food or a plasma screen tv?
Charge 20,000 bucks a pop, you get a few(dozen or hundred) people buying and you still make money.
You charge $150 per TV, now you got 2 TV's per household and you're making billions.
I know NY is different, but I've been thinking on some smaller systems, if they get 30million dollars to run half empty and half full buses that can only get 10% fare recovery(3 million), why not charge a quarter or make the rides free instead of upping the fares and chasing people away???? Then you'd get billions of people on there, and the "per person" subsidy would go down.
I used to ride a system that started to make some of the routes "free". Wow, there was a 400-800% increase in riders.
I don't agree with these views one little bit, but it's what we're up against.
Mark
The fact is, public transit does receive considerable public subsidies; it just doesn't receive enough to fully cover costs.
Roads and airports do have to pay for themselves. A lot of road-building is funded by the gas tax. Since it's pretty hard to use the roads without paying that tax, users of the roads are paying for them.
Similarly, there's a significant departure tax built into every airline ticket that helps pay for the airports.
Mark
The percentages, of course, depend on the system. Locally the systems receive a LOT from property taxes. Fareboxes recover 3million dollars, government gives them 27million, total budget is 30million. Those rolling billboards add a lot in there, wonder how much revenue those Bus TV's get.
Technically, I dont' really believe in having to pay for a single ride, BUT, if you don't collect any money and run half empty buses, why are you raising rates and getting less people? If those Express buses were free or a quarter, i guarantee full buses, and more highway capacity. Don't charge $2.25 for a bus that runs only 2 times during the rush hours. now they're cutting routes back AGAIN!
Free my buses!
*Roads and airports do have to pay for themselves. A lot of road-building is funded by the gas tax. Since it's pretty hard to use the roads without paying that tax, users of the roads are paying for them. *
Tolls are fine by me. I see no reason for a crosstown expressway not to be tolled. But that could be from the culture of the state i live in(everythings tolled). We're never going to see a non-tolled highway down here ever again.
Besides, the roads don't generate enough revenue, which is why every county in my state is upping property taxes, gas taxes, and sales taxes, vehicle registration fees for transportation only. Citrus county is upping it's impact fees based on the traffic it generates.
Fast food is the #1 traffic generator they found, hence a 2070% impact fee increase from 2xxx dollars to 29xxx dollars to build.
*Similarly, there's a significant departure tax built into every airline ticket that helps pay for the airports. *
Looks like TEA LU is giving more money to airports than Amtrak. FAA and local gov'ts seem to like to give expansion money. If i have to vote for one more ballot concerning any airport i'm going to scream too.
Plus, just like how the INTERstate system is meant for interstate travel and not short distance commuting, flying from Atlanta to Orlando is wasting the system and congesting it. We're just repeating history in the air.
I skimmed over something talking about PHL getting billions for expansion, is this true?
My own opinion is that it'd be worth some extra subsidy to be able to get more people out of cars and onto transit, because there are societal benefits to doing so.
Mark
Mayor Mike SHOULD share that opinion.
Gov George can't affort to share it :-(
Michael
Washington, DC
If it costs you $1,000 to make a plasma TV and you sell it for $5,000 to 1,000,000 people, you make $4,000,000,000.
If you sell that same TV for $2500 and 2,000,000 people buy it, you've made only $3,000,000,000. If you can get your costs down to $750, then you'll make $3.5 billion.
"Some" and "many" are very flexible figures. I doubt that a significant number of people are opting out of transit over $.50. Bush-league reporters hacking out a non-story.
Why is reporting the loss of transit riders due to a fare hike a Bush story? Surely that's a story advocating more taxation and less "user-fees" for mass transit, hence a Kerry league story?
Notice I said maximize "revenues", not "profit"?
Service. What service? Costs. What costs? How do you provide service if your revenues don't meet your costs? Do you cut service and cut costs, or do you keep service and raise revenue?
AEM7
Only to local Republicans, who must spend spend spend to get elected like any Democrat.
Explain why property and sales taxes are regressive.
AEM7
They aren't, not really. Income taxes are progressive because rates increase as incomes increase. While that is not true of sales and property taxes, as everyone in a particular jurisdiction pays the same rates, as a practical matter higher-income people buy more and own more expensive property than those less well-off. They end up paying higher taxes notwithstanding the uniform rates.
Ah, so here the term "progressive" is used to mean "linear model with respect to income", rather than "liberal and non-traditional". I see.
The progressive (linear model) tax debate has always taken on the flavor of whether tax RATE should increase with income versus whether tax AMOUNT should increase with income. In the U.S., tax rates tend to stay uniform; in Europe, the tax RATE function can be highly nonlinear. IMHO, nonlinear tax rates are kind of silly because you soon get to the point where it's not worth putting in that extra hour of overtime or that better paying job because the salary increase mean nothing by the time it hits your pocket.
AEM7
also, it would help if NYC public transportation got the same level of federal subsidation that other cities get, but we don't, and that is the mostly the fault of the new york senators.
Only if service cuts follows. If service cuts do not follow, a decline in ridership would be worse as the cars are running with less passengers but still require the same amount of maintanence.
THERE ARE NO $#@&% EMPTY SEATS!
I especially like the photo caption: "Turnstiles stand unused recently at 42nd St. subway station, a sign of the nearly 4% decline in MTA ridership since May '03 fare hike." Decline in ridership leads to part-time entrances! It's almost as classic as showing empty V trains at "the height of rush hour," 9:15 A.M., southbound at Broadway-Lafayette.
So, where do you think they went to ?
- Left town ?
- Stopped going to work ?
- Drive now ... like that is going to cost less ?
- Are taking cabs ?
- A walking ?
- Are on the un-employment line ?
They didn't just go away !
This being New York, I'd say that the last item on your list is the most likely one :(
Must be pretty bad if the center of office towers is having a big employement issue too.
Most likely because many people have decided it's a hopeless situation and have given up looking for work. These so-called discouraged workers do not count as unemployed.
They didn't just go away !<<<<<<<<
I can only speak for myself, in that I'm part of the 6 million who are not taking the MTA each day. I used to commute from the Path station on 34th Street to 53rd street via the V train. The minute the fare went up to $2.00 dollars, I stopped buying the monthly and went to Toys R US and purchased a department store bicycle for $98.00 dollars. I stopped counting the amount of money I save by using that bicycle but it must be closing on $1,000.00 dollars.
I still use the trains but only on the weekends for enjoyment along with my bicycle. Now that my office moved to the Times Square, I don't even use the bike but find myself walking to work from 34th.
I think a good portion of those not using the system are bike commuting as I see loads of them on the streets now more than ever before.
Too bad you stopped counting. For a regular commuter (who does nothing more than commute) the price is only an extra $10 a month. It would take you 10 months only to pay off that bicycle and 8 years to save that much money.
How did you come up with an extra $10.00 dollars a month? Other than new tires ($40.00) and having the front brake serviced ($15.00), I've put no money into that bicycle. It lives on the streets of Manhattan 24/7 right by 34th street. Since purchasing the toy store cycle, I've put less than $175.00 dollars into the machine. Furthermore, I have not purchased a monthly MetroCard in about a year. These are are estimated numbers:
$70.00 X 12 = $840.00 dollars.
$840.00 MetroCard
- $175.00 Bicycle
==========================
$665.00 Savings
The savings are actually less since I have been purchasing $40.00 dollar monthly cards every now and then for those days when it rained or snowed.
I can't remember all the times when I didn't use the Metrocard on the weekends and used the bicycle to get around town so it all works out evenly. I would like to know where you got the idea that I was saving only $10.00 dollars from? I would like to see the math.
I know the savings are real because I now have spare transit checks where before I had to use them all to buy MetroCards. In fact, the MetroCard in my wallet has lasted me over 4 months now and I find myself using it less and less.
*Cost of regular daily commutation without any extra trips, 1/1/1998-5/3/2003.
Anyway. The reason $60 was used for the comparison and not $63 was because I did not consider recreational trips. Taking into account the discounts, 44 trips (4 full work weeks plus 2 extra days constituting a 30 day month WITH NO EXTRA RIDES) costed $60. 30-day passes were only for those who made added trips. $70 is the cost of 42 trips now, and thus is a discount to a regular commuter.
That's funny, because if you were using a monthly, you weren't going to be paying anything near $2.00. Even people that only bu the 6 for 5 $10 metrocards only pay $1.67. Nobody who rides the subway more than about 5 or so times a year pay $2.00 for a ride (and for them it's a big $2.50 more a year - big whoop). And those that are stupid enough to pay $2 if they ride more than 5 times a year deserve to do so.
Alright. Alright.... So you guys have a point. When I saw the fare go up to $2.00 dollars, I ran out and got the bike. In the end, it all worked out fine and I'm spending $93 dollars a month to commute ($40 Quick Card, $53 HBLR Monthly) instead of $163.00 ($40 Quick Card, $53 HBLR Monthly, $70 Metrocard)
Today I rode on the Path with guy who had a folding bike. I asked him why is he riding a bike to work? His answer: "It saves me from taking the subway".
Mark
Exactly.. Thank you Mark.
Walk, Bike, Car/vanpool, and transit seem to be the choices they give.
And as another one of our new bridges falling down yesterday demonstrates, there's no room for all them single occupant cars for commuting.
Opposition: "But Jeff, people love their cars, they'll never leave!"
Jeff(me): "I dare you to find me a single human being who loves to 'drive' in rush hour. Let alone in college I think I only found five people who weren't so lazy they didn't even like driving to pick up beer!!!"
Try again. :)
But more seriously, I think our car culture exists not so much because we love cars as that we have been denied all other options. In most of America it's either drive or stay home as we build suburban sprawl often without transit, sidewalks, or anything withing walkable distance of a residence. In places where other alternatives are made available they have shown to be competitive in the open market with the car-driven lifestyle. Downtown condos sell out where they're available, and good rail transit is well-used when it's there. Car-loving LA can fill its Blue Line to capacity on a Sunday afternoon, and car-loving Houston's light rail is filled to the gills.
Mark
And you should've seen the front page Sunday paper talking about the 20 or 30 million or however much project to build sidewalks on US19..all 39 miles of it!
----
And it's worse when you're car is int he shop for anything, even a brake job, that is a huge hike just to buy a newspaper. I'm so glad my parents didn't move out of the city, what an unimaginable nightmare.
Well if it's a choice between beer and no beer, someone better make that beer run!!
But everytime i see the arguement people love their cars and will never leave it, I think of everyone I ever encountered personally. I come out with maybe 3 of us who would always fight to drive, no one else ever wanted to bothered.
I guess the novelty wears off after high school for most people.
Plus, within the last year, UCF started it's own bus service, won a clean air award and is overcrowded. You should see the huge difference in traffic in that area.
But, at least I knew every road in town!
6 million per month.
If it were 6 million per day, it would be a different story.
It's kind of mind-boggling. If you make high fares, less people will ride the subway, but if they're low, more people will come. I think the MTA should decrese the fares b/c more people would ride the system and they (MTA) would get about the same total amount of money as when they do it vice-versa.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
David
Is there a time schedule for the number 4? I thought the headway for the Lexington Avenue Express was 5 to 10 minutes during rush hour? If there are more riders on the 4, the MTA can't provide greater service as the line runs at capacity during rush hour. There would just simply be more packed cars.
David
Joining the usual suspects from Court Street, will be a freshly
refurbished pair of R-33ML in "Silver & Blue" and if time permits
another set will be in the Bright Solid Red paint scheme of the
early sixties.
The train of many colors operates this weekend, and on Sunday next.
Enjoy, 8 > ) ~ Sparky
Whoa! Are we talking silver with blue stripe, like the 1970's?
and if time permits another set will be in the Bright Solid Red paint scheme of the
early sixties.
Wow. I'm stoked!
wayne
#3 West End Jeff
Since I can't say bite your tongue (because this is being typed), I'll say bite your fingers.
AND..... if a car DID happen to get blemished on, it'd get taken OOS
and into a yard track.... where it'd emerge a few hours later carrying
it's base colors FRESHLY PAINTED (again)...
When graffiti got out of swipe, I bet the TA dropped this practice clean,
but there have been times where a freshly re-re-painted blue/silver
car would be smack in the midst of a consist with others wearing blemishes.
IIRC, there's a dandy pic of 1 example of this on a train at Dyckman St.
in this here webshrine.
Nah, it's closer to Dekalib Ave.
#3 West End Jeff
EEEEWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!
::raises pinky::
wayne
--Mark
I wonder if they'll re-paint the interiors. Some orange paint on these car's doors will make them fairly accurate representations of the 1976-1983 period. The all red 1960's cars will have to be painted grey & green to be historially accurate.
R-33ML's. The best of the best.Thanks Sparky.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Being a definite fan of the IRT, I'm glad the TA is pursuing this. Like other replies have suggested, they should paint some more surplus Redbirds in other colors (like the anti-graffiti white) to create a Rainbow set of sorts.
til next time
Jimmy :)
I hope they lowered the number boards to make them look authenic.
Bill "Newkirk"
KICKA$$
Adam
We've seen MORE THAN ENOUGH of R36-WF cars in the prior trips...
We demand ML Redbirds and it looks like we're getting it come hell or high rain~!!
Adam
Adam
til next time
1]This line has changed commuting patterns in the river towns. Based on some eavesdropping of conversations, a lot of the people riding this line used to drive to PATCO stations and then use the PATCO Line to get into Philly. Now many people simply walk to the RiverLINE stations, or have the spouse drop them off at the station since in most cases it is along the way to work, school, etc.
2]The RiverLINE has taken some passengers off the 409/419 buses, but the impact isn't so clear right now.
3]Personally, this line has become the chief cause of my inability to stay out of NYC. The shorter travel time and cheaper cost of traveling makes NYC an extermely cheap thrill to be enjoyed frequently{I have been there TWICE in a 3 week period, with another trip coming this weekend. This in addition to my three trips to the Trenton Area since the opening of this line.}
4]The RiverLINE has unified New Jersey's rail systems. No longer are the North Jersey and the South Jersey systems completely separate, nor would one use a "foreign" bridge [SEPTA] to get to PATCO and the ACRL. The travel time from Camden to NYC on the RL and the NEC often meets and sometimes beats the DOG [Greyhound] despite the transfer at Trenton.
5]A lot of people are surprised at how convenient the line is in regard to getting to attractions in Camden, Philly, Trenton and NYC. With the warm weather approaching, the line will be quite busy and maybe ridership will approach projections.
Now I have a couple of suggestions:
1]Try to negotiate with Conrail, and try to get at least 2 additional hours of service Sunday thru Fridays. Running the RL to midnight [last trains leaving Camden/Trenton at 11 pm] would make this line a perfect way to go to concerts and ball games. On weekdays and Sundays, 11 pm is OK. the Saturday service could use an additional trip leaving at 1 am [leaving Trenton] for all of the wekend warriors coming in from Manhattan.
2]How about selling joint RL/NEC tickets at the vending machines. While they're at it, also sell joint RL and 551 AC bus tickets [as well as to other shore points], it will raise even more revenue, and make this line extremely more convenient for riders and commuters. A seamless transfer works wonders. [As a pass user, this is the norm, but for ones who use this line occasionally, this would be a total godsend.]
3]How about a memo telling the Bus drivers of the RL/bus Transfer policy. It appalls me when the bus drivers do not know what is going on with the transfer policy between buses and the RL. The policy applies to both intrastate and interstate lines, so someone at NJT make sure the bus drivers know the policy inside AND out.
What do you think the impact of the RiverLINE is?
Mark
I could see this one coming. Can you say economic stimulus?
Sounds like that same thing that would've happened when the "Disney" train is built.
It saves money on those trips to Phili by not taking the R7, and it provides a good view of Southern New Jersey. Its also a great way to get to Patco and NJT.
THe downside is that it adds about a hour to a commute time, rather than taking the R7. And the fact that they never check tickets (at least the times Ive ridden) is a nuisance.
On a scale of 1 through 5 (5 being the greatest), I would give it a 4.
Granted I don't like it, I would reccomend the River line over the R7, unless time is a issue.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
The real impact of the RiverLINE is yet to be seen. The future developement of Camden is the Wild-Card and effort should be made in this regard. There is too much parking space by the Acquarium and no where to construct new shopping centers, malls, resturants, luxury condos and office buildings. I'm concerned that five years from now, we will still have only 3,000 thoudand people a week as the only reason you would use this line is to GET OUT of Camden. I want to see people using the system to GET INTO Camden!
Looks like a busy summer of Centennial fantrips!
HopeTunnel.org
Chuck Greene
chuck
Here we go!< /marquee >
You needed to put < marquee > before the portion you wanted to have scroll. Like the others have said though, use the Preview function, and think twice before submitting. Plain text is usually enough.
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Become? It hit that plateau some time ago.
Peace,
ANDEE
Have any of you subtalkers heard or seen anything about this?
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&q=Republican+convention+subway&btnG=Search+News
It has been reported that if the Secret Service had their druthers all subway and rail service at Penn Station would be shut down for the duration of the convention; the city, of course, considers this excessive. It appears that there has really been no final decision on transit plans for convention week, but my guess is that unless there is some specific, credible threat we won't see much more than the closure of the adjacent 34th Street subway stations, and perhaps a more extensive short-term shutdown at critical times such as the President's acceptance speech.
Alan Follett
Hercules, CA
If you want to link to a photo, the syntax is <a href={}>Text describing what the user will see when clicking</a>.
Now in between the {} in each case, you need to put where in the web you can find what you want to display or link to (it’s called a URL–uniform resource locator in the jargon). It’s going to look like http://subwayphotos.com/directory/file.jpg
There are just a couple of complications: some (most?) of the free hosting sites don’t allow you to reference just a single picture, since that stops them from wrapping their advertising around the page. Imagestation is one of the sites that falls into this category and is frequently used by SubTalk posters. You need to link to the whole page.
Of course, I should mention John Villanueva here (Bombadier) and and his free gallery. Not only does he let you include single photographs, he even tells you how to do it!
Have fun, and while you are experimenting, use the Preview button to check your work!
Code for a hyperlink: <a href="http://page/to/link.html">Contents of Link</a>
Code for an image in a hyperlink: <a href="http://page/to/link.html"><img src="http://site/with/picture.jpg"></a>
Then, I saw a picture of R10's, and finally knew what I'd seen.
[url]http://naphotos.nerail.org/photos/200404131710118252.jpg[/url]
[url]http://naphotos.nerail.org/photos/200404131708538233.jpg[/url]
[url]http://naphotos.nerail.org/photos/200404131706158145.jpg[/url]
Thanks for the pics. However, what would these locomotives replace? (The aem7s are not yet 20 years old. The F40s and GP40s, though, are really getting old!)
Also, Dutchrailnut, this is a HTML board, not a UBB board, as some boards are.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Yeah, the thing's ugly as hell, but nobody designs them for looks - they had to meet FRA standards, and tha'ts what it takes to do so.
And again you are spouting your neophille propaganda. Just because something is newer dosen't mean it's better. In the words of Scotty, the more your complicate the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain.
WTF is wrong with Metra and Caltrain? Why couldn't they just get the PL42AC and save everyone a few bucks?
I think that statement should be reversed. WTF is wrong with NJT that it couldn't buy a MP36 and save itself a few bucks (as well as the public's eyes).
That is an MP 36
Looks a lot better than that abomination at the beginning of this thread!
What's wrong with Metra? Subcontracted to Class Is, and run by management with no clue. It's a huge system (nearly 2X the size of the LIRR, in terms of number of stations), with low ridership (a bit less than the LIRR, or adjusted for # of stations, a bit less than 1/2). It could attract a LOT more ridership if it was run decently. Having been on it, I found it slow as fuck and hardly wonderful equipmentwise.
Only a total idiot buys a low power DC traction locomotive these days. The funny stuff is that some of the Metra enginemen are all bent out of shape cause they've got a PLC in the cab with them now, and can't take this newfangled computer stuff...
Caltrain basically decided that metra is the One True Way(tm) and just copies whatever they do.
Realize too, Metra's equipment doesn't achive anywhere near the braking rates of NJT or MN or LIRR stuff. 3.0mph/s is standard here (on the M-cars, and the LIRR's C cars, probbably the Comets and Arrows too...), that's better than the *emergency* rate on the Highliners (and the service rate is even more dismal), which are supposedly the best stopping Metra stuff. That's why LIRR trains can hit the platform at 45 and stop smoothly.
NOT TRUE. NJT has a fancy pants industrial designer whom they paid a lot of money to come up with this UGLY design. I've seen articles about him. His name is Cesar Vergara and here is an article with a lot of info about him. Looks like most of his work until the PL42AC has been decent.
Taken from your linked article:
"It is important to note that the attractive body shape existed when I arrived. I am only responsible for the graphics on this particular engine."
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
The PL42AC will replace the GP40PH-2 (4100-12, former CNJ GP40-P built 1968-69), the GP40FH-2 (series 4130-44, built 1966-70), and GP40PH-2B (series 4200-19, 1965-69).
PL-42 Diesel Locomotive Purchase
Background
NJ TRANSIT is purchasing 33 new PL-42 Diesel locomotives; 28 locomotives will replace 13 GP40PH and 15 GP40FH locomotives built as long ago as 1965. Five of the new locomotives will provide for the anticipated ridership growth associated with the planned new services of Secaucus Junction, Montclair Connection and other projects.
Project Scope
The locomotives will have the capability to be utilized with longer train lengths of single-level and bi-level cars. Additionally, the locomotives will incorporate the new Federal Railroad Administration and American Public Transportation Association safety standards and the latest EPA requirements.
Project Cost
Contract Price: $146 million (33 locomotives)
Current Status
In September 2001, NJ TRANSIT's Board approved the purchase of 33 locomotives.
The contract was awarded to Alstom Transportation of Hornell, NY.
The anticipated date for the first locomotive to be delivered to Pueblo for testing is April 2004.
Next Milestone
All 33 locomotives will be manufactured by December 2004.
NJ TRANSIT Department of Capital Planning and Programs
February 2004
Eh? NJT has no AEM7s, those are ALP44s. Built by ABB not ASEA and utilizing an all Swedish body, not a Budd body as the AEM7 does. Also according to Hoboken Terminal they were built from 1990 until the arrival of the last ALP44M (microprocessor controls) in 1997. The orders consisted of the first 15 locos, 4400 through 4414 in 1990, then 4415 through 4419 in 1995, these units are also sometimes called the ALP44E, although I'm not sure that's an official designation used by NJT (one person claims it means "extension" and that they are lengthened, but I see no evidence of this), I think that the 1995 units may have features from the later ALP44Ms, which are numbered 4420 through 4431 and were delivered between 1996 and '97.
Also, I think the GP40PH-2Bs are hanging around, IIRC they were recently rebuilt and look to be in very decent shape to my untrained eye. That'd add 20 locos to the fleet that you'd written off, and would allow an expansion of the diesel fleet.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Here's a comparison:
SEPTA ALP44
SEPTA AEM7
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Jimmy :P
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I know I am horribly late getting this out. I have been working a great
deal of hours again and just have not had the time to finish this up and
get it sent. Hopefully I'll be back on track here. I am terribly backlogged
on answering mail too. If you have sent me some comments or questions and
have not received an answer yet, that is why. Hopefully I'll get to them
before summer begins.
This piece started out to be a simple look at what can be ordered as
options on a locomotive. It has gone through a sort of metamorphosis and
has become rather huge. Big enough that it will be two parts. In part one
we'll primarily discuss many of the external options, those that are pretty
much readily visible by the trackside observer. Part two will review many
of the internal options. There are several crossover type items that while
they appear in one part, could easily appear in the other.
Locomotives come in many different models and designs. With these different
models come various options. Some options are clearly visible to the naked
eye and trackside observer. Others are visible to the Locomotive Engineer
and crew. Still others are only noted by the mechanical forces which
maintain the locomotives.
With both parts of this lesson we are going to study some of the options
available to the railroads with regards to locomotives. While I cannot know
all of them, especially some of those on the technical side, I will touch
upon some of those of with which I am aware and familiar with.
Some options have become synonymous with a particular railroad. In some
instances a particular option may have been something designed for a
specific railroad based upon a particular need owing to the exigencies of
their operation. Other options have been offered to and ordered by several
carriers and you'll see them on the locomotives of many railroads.
Now unlike automobiles, the engine (known as the prime mover on a
locomotive) is generally not an option. If you want the upgraded, "muscle"
engine, you order the next higher horsepower model of locomotive. While
there may be some optional items on the prime mover, the prime mover itself
is pretty standard. You don't order the so-called "big block" high
performance engine instead of the standard or stock one on a locomotive.
Although there is at least one exception to that rule; Union Pacific has
the SD90MAC with the 6000 horsepower H Series prime mover. UP also ordered
the pre production version known as the SD9043MAC that has the 4300
horsepower 710 series prime mover in the basic SD90MAC car body. The 90MAC
uses a different car body design than does the SD75 series in which the
4300 horsepower 16-710G3C prime mover is standard.
The plan when UP originally ordered these units was to designate them as
"convertible" units. No, they wouldn't have tops that go down allowing the
train crews to travel in style. The original concept or plan was to convert
these SD9043MAC's to pure SD90MAC's by replacing their two stroke 710
series prime movers with the four stroke H series prime mover when all the
bugs were worked out of it and the engine was supposed to be ready for mass
production.
That was the plan anyway, but reality set in. The H series prime mover has
not lived up to expectations and it appears that the cost to actually
convert them to pure SD90MAC's would now not be economically feasible.
Over the years test bed prime movers have been placed into standard
locomotives. The MoPac ordered three B23-7 models from General Electric
with a 3000 horsepower, 12 cylinder prime mover instead of the of the
standard model rated at 2250 horsepower. These prime movers were tested for
a year or so. As a result of successful testing, MoPac ordered fifty-five
B30-7A locomotives from GE. This unit had the 12 cylinder, 3000 horsepower
prime mover standard. This was a variation of the B30-7 model offered in
the GE catalog which had a 3000 horsepower prime mover, but used 16
cylinders to achieve that rating. The "A" in the model designation denotes
that they are the 12 cylinder version.
The L&N took delivery of a group of U23B's with a 2750 horsepower prime
mover instead of the standard 2250 horsepower variety. This higher
horsepower engine did not pan out and this group eventually had their prime
movers de-rated back to the standard 2250.
EMD built a 4000 horsepower version of the 20 cylinder prime mover found in
the SD45 back in the very late 60's or early 70's. I don't believe more
than a couple of them were ever installed in a locomotive, and I don't
recall if they were on locomotives obtained by one of the railroads or if
they were only on demonstrators. This experiment also didn't pan out. Oddly
enough, one of these prime movers wound up on the Wisconsin Central. They
found this engine in a locomotive salvage yard, purchased it, rebuilt it
rating it at 3200 horsepower and installed it in one of their secondhand
former BN units that had suffered a devastating major engine failure. I
want to say the 6572 was the unit, but I cannot recall for certain.
In the past, the locomotive builders were also more receptive to the needs
and demands of railroading in developing specialty locomotives. The
Milwaukee Road had numerous light rail branch lines that were particularly
high grain producing lines. The standard four axle Geep would not meet the
demands for tonnage ratings on these line. Electro Motive Division
developed the SDL39 locomotive as a result of the Milwaukee's need. This
was a 12 cylinder, 2300 horsepower six axle locomotive built on a frame
that was shorter than the standard Special Duty unit. The trucks while
longer than the standard four axle truck, were shorter than the regular six
axle truck found on other SD models. This unit was also lighter than the 16
cylinder, 2000 horsepower SD38 series. The fuel tank was smaller keeping
the unit within the parameters of lighter weight.
Only ten SDL39's were ever built, but this order garnered EMD more
locomotive orders from the Milwaukee over the years. Now having run these
very engines in my days at the Wisconsin Central, they were indeed great
pullers. While their top end speed wasn't so fast, they did pull well.
Chessie System had EMD develop an 8 cylinder, turbocharged prime mover that
could produce 1500 horsepower. It was installed in the Chessie's only order
of GP15T locomotives. These locomotives were a variation of the GP15 series
developed by EMD in the early 1970's. This prime mover also showed up later
in Seaboard System's order of MP15T locomotives. This model was similar in
appearance to the MP15 series of switch engines only with a single exhaust
stack instead of the pair normally associated with a non-turbocharged or
"normally aspirated" engine.
The GP15 series of locomotive itself was developed by EMD in the attempt to
counter the rebuild or remanufacturing programs being undertaken at some
railroads. Roads like the Family Lines System, Illinois Central Gulf and a
few others engaged in heavy rebuilding or total remanufacturing of smaller
Geeps to modernize them and get twenty more years of service out of them.
EMD countered with the GP15. This was a somewhat new, somewhat old
locomotive. The cab, car body, frame, high voltage cabinet and other
components were new. Some of the other components used within were
remanufactured from parts coming off of locomotives traded in to EMD. Such
an arrangement allowed those roads that purchased it some tax advantages.
EMD also offered liberal trade allowances taking two or three old
locomotives as trade in credit towards one GP15.
Several different gear ratio options are available on locomotives. The
ratio chosen depends of course, on the needs of each particular railroad.
To accomplish that really heavy duty lugging capability from a locomotive,
that is dragging very high tonnage at prolonged low rates of speed, you
don't accomplish this simply with the gear ratio. Instead you go with the
six axle locomotive capable of such performance as opposed to a four axle
unit. So you would order a six axle SD or Special Duty locomotive as
opposed to a General Purpose or Geep from EMD or a C series as opposed to B
series locomotive from GE. Some roads that perform primarily at lower
speeds lugging heavy loads will match up gear ratios to their six axle
power to provide for the most optimum pulling power.
As I have mentioned, some of the locomotives options chosen by some
railroads over the years are readily visible to the trackside observer. A
few of those include dynamic brakes, class or marker lights (although these
are no longer required and have been getting removed from older locomotives
over the years), walkway ramps on each end, oscillating headlights, strobe
or revolving roof beacon lights, air conditioning, low or high short end
nose, overhead walkway lights and the locomotive cab itself. Some of the
options not apparently visible are generally mechanical and electrical
upgrades as well as some features inside the cab.
Some railroads opted against dynamic brakes. Soo Line, Grand Trunk Western,
Rock Island and Missouri Pacific are four roads which come to mind that did
not prefer this option when ordering new power. MoPac acquired some units
with dynamic through mergers with the Chicago & Eastern Illinois and Texas
& Pacific. In the 1970's with the demand for them in run-through coal train
service with the Burlington Northern and Rio Grande, MoPac ordered
seventy-four SD40-2 locomotives in several different orders with dynamic
brakes. They also ordered another forty-five of them without the feature
during the same time period. Those with dynamic brakes were designated as
SD40-2C, with the C designating them as coal service units. After their
merger with Union Pacific, the final two orders of locomotives acquired by
MoPac did include dynamic brakes, but this was for a MoPac that was
essentially a railroad in name only.
Other roads like Louisville & Nashville did not order their many of their
first generation of diesel locomotives with dynamic braking, but embraced
this feature later on. The Milwaukee Road passed on dynamic brakes on some
units to reduce their total weight to allow them to be operated on lighter
rail secondary lines.
Electro Motive Division offered two types of dynamic brake systems by the
early 1970's; the standard taper system and the higher capacity extended
range system. The extended range was an improvement in that it functioned
at lower speeds (down to 6 MPH) than did the standard taper system (12
MPH). Some roads like the EJ&E opted for uniformity (and saved money in the
process) by ordering all of their SD38 and SD38-2 locomotives with the
standard taper system. Today EMD offers one system, the extended range,
high capacity version. And this feature is now standard equipment and no
longer an option.
General Electric offered one dynamic brake package, the flat system. This
system is actually better than EMD's in that it uses the position of the
dynamic brake controller to regulate the amperage while in the dynamic
braking mode. EMD's taper system is tied more into the speed of the
locomotive as well as position of the controller. GE introduced their
enhanced dynamic brake system in the mid 80's as did EMD.
In the days of operating trains on timetable schedules and with train
orders, class lights were a requirement. Class lights are (were) those
pairs of little lights placed on each end of the locomotive. Class lights
were designed to display the colors white, green and red. They used
moveable filters behind the lenses operated by a lever to change the colors
of the light. If no display of class lights was required, they could simply
be turned of through the use of a sliding switch in the cab of the
locomotive. One switch operated the front pair and another operated the
rear pair of class lights.
In Canada, there were three individual class lights, one for each color on
each side of the front and rear of the locomotive. There were rotary
switches, one for each set of lights on each side of the locomotive. Each
switch had knob that pointed to whatever color you wanted illuminated as
well as the off selection. You could conceivably have one light illuminated
white and one green, or perhaps one green and one red class light
illuminated at the same time. The Canadians did not phase out the
requirement for class lights until the early 90's so there are still quite
a few units that are still equipped with them. They haven't been as gung-ho
to remove them as their American counterparts either.
As they settled into an operations plan several years after their
formation, Conrail opted for markers that only displayed red. They did not
have any scheduled freight trains and they had been shed of the obligations
of operating commuter railroads, so class lights were no longer necessary.
Conrail used the red markers on lite engine consists (engines operated
without cars or a caboose) to designate the rear of the train as required
by the rules. These red marker lights were also used on the read of end of
train pusher units. While pretty much all operating rulebooks allow the use
of the headlight operated on the dim setting as a highly visible rear
marker on lite engines or rear end pushers, Conrail opted for the red
markers.
And these marker lights were different from the standard class light
application. They were not mounted flush but instead, protruded from the
car body. This style of light was referred to as the "bug eye" light.
Other options include headlight placement. On standard cab locomotives,
there have been several options available for the headlights. Some
railroads like the Louisville & Nashville, Southern Pacific and Illinois
Central Gulf (among several others) opted for the use of oscillating lights
commonly referred to "Mars" lights. These lights were mounted up high, in
between the number boards on the front of the locomotive. There have been
two manufacturers of such oscillating lights and their models were the Mars
and "Gyra" lights. These lights, mounted between the number boards rotated
creating a sweeping effect. The light rotated in a circular pattern. At
night they really stood out.
Other railroads like the Rio Grande, Kansas City Southern and Western
Pacific opted for oscillating headlights mounted on the low front nose. To
keep these lights from coming up in front of the Engineer and Brakeman
riding the head end, the oscillating lights moved in a figure 8 pattern
with it rotating as if the 8 was laying on its side. On the very first
batch of SD40-2's ordered by MoPac designated for run through service on
coal trains with the BN and Rio Grande, this style of oscillating light was
applied.
Southern Pacific ordered what has commonly been referred to as the "light
package." SP and their Cotton Belt subsidiary had the twin front sealed
beam headlights on EMD built locomotives placed on the low nose and mounted
horizontally instead of vertically. Right above the headlights was a single
red lamp. This lamp only illuminated when the train went into an emergency
brake application or if the Engineer used a switch to illuminate it. To
complete the package, a Mars light was placed up between the number boards.
Some SP and Cotton Belt locomotives also had a light package mounted on the
rear of locomotive as well. There was a switch on the high voltage cabinet
to transfer the operation of the oscillating light from the front to the
rear of the locomotive depending upon which way the locomotive was
operating.
Kansas City Southern and Illinois Central Gulf opted for some of their
locomotives to have a simulated oscillating headlight. This feature
consisted of a pair of lamps mounted in slightly opposite directions. These
lights dimmed and brightened up in a rhythm of sorts that simulated motion.
With the oscillating lights being used, the regular headlight also needs a
home. The normal position is mounted up high, in between the number boards
with no oscillating lights being used or the type used on the nose. With
the oscillating light mounted up high in between the number boards, the
headlight would go in the low nose. Now some roads like Santa Fe began
placing the headlight in the low nose even with no oscillating lights being
used.
On the super cab units there have also been two schools of thought with the
placement of headlights. The standard placement is on the nose. Some roads
have opted for the headlight to be placed up high on the cab roof. Again,
it is a road to road preference. Union Pacific and Conrail are two roads
that went for the lights up high while CN comes to mind as one that has
gone low with it.
Also on super cab units is the placement of the number boards. Some roads
have opted to place the number boards up high, above the front windows.
Other roads have opted for placement on the nose instead. This seems to be
a mix and match item with the headlight. For example, CN places their
numbers boards above the front windows and has the headlight in the nose.
Conrail had the headlight up high and the number boards on the nose.
Up on the roof (no, not the song but rather the cab roof) some railroads
opted for additional lighting. Union Pacific, Grand Trunk Western, Elgin,
Joliet & Eastern (the J) and Chicago & Northwestern and Burlington Northern
are five roads that opted for revolving beacon lights on the cab roof. At
one point the Soo Line also used revolving lights as well. While the J used
red ones, the others opted for amber colored lights. These lights were
often referred to as revolvers, gyro lights or roof beacon lights. At least
two states, Wisconsin and Washington, had laws that required the use of
some sort of roof beacon lights.
The J used them to call attention to their locomotives while switching
industries. They were used to create more visibility of the locomotive.
While it is not always feasible to sound the whistle inside of a building,
that revolving red light would attract your attention.
Two other railroads come to mind that had some sort of roof beacon lights,
Amtrak and the Milwaukee Road. Amtrak used strobe type lights for many
years while the Milwaukee opted for "bubblegum" lights. The bubblegum light
was a set of four sealed beam lamps mounted in four different directions
under an amber dome. The lamps flashed on and off in a pattern of one
succeeding the other. This gave the illusion of a rotating light on the cab
roof. L&N did order one group of SD40-2's in the mid 70's with a bubblegum
light as well, only this was under a red dome instead of the amber. It only
showed up on one order and was never repeated.
Amtrak took the strobe light idea further than other roads. They had them
mounted in pairs, one on either side of the cab roof. And these pairs
almost acted as if they had a mind of their own. Some locomotives had them
strobing together while others had them strobing alternatively. The Family
Lines dropped oscillating headlights in their final orders of SD40-2
locomotives in the early 80's opting for the double strobe lights on the
roof ala Amtrak. By the time the component roads of the Family Lines were
merged into Seaboard System in 1983, the strobe lights were dropped as
well.
With the wide spread introduction of the end of train telemetry to the rail
industry in the early 1980's, the revolving beacon lights became a
liability to those roads that used them. The motor that turned the lights
created radio frequency that jammed the head end telemetry receivers. To
remedy this problem BN chose to replace the revolvers with bubble gum
lights like the Milwaukee Road. UP, CNW and GTW went with strobe lights
instead. Locomotives already on the property had the revolvers replaced
with the bubblegum lights and all new units ordered received either
bubblegum or strobe lights.
EJ&E and Soo Line opted for strobe lights several years before the advent
of cabooseless operation. Both of these roads began installing strobe
lights on their motive power in the 70's.
Initially, all new diesel road switcher units were built with the high
short hood. The low short hood wasn't even offered as an option until the
very late 1950's. Slowly most roads adopted the low short hood and by the
mid 1960's virtually everybody was ordering this feature on most, if not
all of their new power.
Two well know roads, the Southern and Norfolk & Western didn't follow this
trend. They chose the high short nose on their locomotives for years.
Citing more protection for the crews in the event of a collision with a
truck at a road crossing, the high nose was the option chosen by both roads
for many years. Southern ordered all of their locomotives this way until
they merged with the N&W. Other roads the Southern acquired through
takeovers throughout the years that had low short hood locomotives had the
high hood added to them after these roads were taken over.
In the 1970's N&W decided to change their policy in regard to the high
nose. This change in attitude might have been part of the grand scheme of
things when they were involved in a proposed merger with the Chesapeake &
Ohio. All of their new locomotives were constructed with the more common
low short nose, but there was a twist. Instead of having the control stand
mounted on the right side of the cab making the short hood end the front,
N&W ordered the control stand on the left side of the cab making the long
hood end the front. The idea was that even if the locomotive was operating
with the low nose leading, the windows on the low hood end allowed the
Engineer plenty of visibility. The C&O merger never occurred, instead, it
was Southern that would take over the N&W. After merging with Southern to
create Norfolk Southern, this N&W practice of low short hood and long hood
forward operation was adopted by the new company and continued into the
latter 80's. At that point in time the philosophy changed to conform to
most of the rest of the industry using the short hood forward.
However, NS will still operate locomotives long hood forward in through
freight operations as the situation may require or necessitate.
Both Southern and N&W for many years, opted for the long hood end of the
locomotive to be considered the front instead of the short hood end like
most other roads. In the earlier days of diesels on the railroad, some
lines like New York Central, Baltimore & Ohio and Grand Trunk Western opted
for the long hood end to be the front of the locomotive. The locomotive
builders offered either end to be the front as an option. I've been told
over the years that the long hood forward philosophy carries over from the
days of steam when the long portion of the locomotive was always in front
of the cab.
>From a personal standpoint, the high short hood never bothered me. Running
long hood forward is not a big deal either. Having had the opportunity to
operate numerous Southern, N&W and later, Norfolk Southern units with the
long hood end as the leader and the control stand on the right side (when
the unit is facing long hood forward), this was not a problem for me.
Others think different but we all have our own personal preferences. The
high short hood also offered more room in the toilet area and allowed for
easier access to this room. You could stand up straight inside there and
didn't have to be a contortionist to get in and out of the nose.
The EJ&E designated the long hood end as the front when their first order
of SD38's were built, but had them and all successive orders equipped with
dual control stands. A complete control stand with all the required
features was mounted on each side of the cab. I was told they followed the
N&W's lead as N&W had many of their locomotives equipped with dual control
stands. Their SD45 and GP38AC models come to mind. Several years later, the
J changed their philosophy and made the short hood end the front of the
locomotive.
MoPac also had some of their GP7 locomotives equipped with the dual control
stands.
All new power Conrail acquired was equipped cab signal equipment. The
spotting feature on the standard cab units was a box mounted in front of
the cab on the right side of the locomotive in front of the Engineer's
front window. Chicago & Northwestern also opted for cab signal equipped
locomotives as did Union Pacific. Metra ordered all their new locomotives
equipped with all the cab signal systems of all the roads they operate on
in the Chicago area. The Rock Island and CNW lines had different types of
cab signal systems so the different systems were included on all of their
road power to allow them to be free runners on the entire system.
Fuel tanks also come in various sizes. On Geeps, some roads like Southern
and Milwaukee Road ordered smaller fuel tanks. This allowed these units to
operate on the lighter rail branch lines. Southern used 1700 gallon fuel
tanks on many of the GP38 series locomotives. MoPac ordered the largest
fuel tanks they could get. The SD40 series locomotives all received the
optional 4000 gallon fuel tanks, larger than the standard 3000 gallon
version. They also ordered the 3000 version for the GP38 and GP50 series
locomotives as opposed to the smaller 1700, 2000 or 2600 gallon versions.
Roads like MoPac, Burlington Northern, Conrail and Santa Fe operated longer
runs thus required the larger fuel tanks. This required less refueling en
route which reduced running times. Roads like Grand Trunk and Detroit,
Toledo & Ironton were smaller roads with shorter runs; thus the larger fuel
tanks (and their added cost) was not required.
There have been several options for mounting the locomotive bell. Many
early road switcher type locomotives were equipped with the bell mounted on
the top of one of the hoods directly above one of the headlights. New York
Central, Grand Trunk Western and Southern were three of many roads that
chose this option. Southern stayed with this policy throughout their
existence. The EJ&E had the bell mounted on the front end, next to the
headlight on their large center cab units. The bell was placed on the end
considered the front of the locomotive.
Other options include mounting the bell towards the top of the locomotive
car body behind the cab. Several roads, including MoPac ordered the bell
mounted at the top of the car body on the left side of the locomotive.
Chessie System had theirs mounted on the right side. After merging with the
Seaboard Coast Line, this policy was adopted for both component roads
Chessie and Seaboard.
Some roads chose to mount the bell under the side sill on the left side of
the locomotive. To me, this is the absolute worst location. In this mount
the bell is normally placed directly in front of the fuel tank and behind
the front truck.
Other roads chose to mount the bell on the top of the locomotive itself. It
might be placed right behind the cab or above the short high nose on units
so equipped. Many SP and Cotton Belt units had the bell mounted on the roof.
Chicago & Northwestern went with a gong type bell that was mounted on the
low front hood. Detroit Toledo & Ironton and MoPac also had some units with
this feature. MoPac had a group of U30C's built by GE with the gong bell
mounted below the Engineer's front window. DT&I followed CNW's lead and had
them mounted on the low front hood.
GE offered the bell under the frame mounted like EMD or right behind the
left side of the cab right above the rear window and below the roofline.
Southern was able to get GE to mount the bell above the headlights, just
like on their EMD locomotives.
Some DT&I units had the bell mounted on the right side of the low nose in
front of the Engineer. There was an indentation in the nose and the bell
was mounted inside. This was a rather strange arrangement. Another strange
position was on top of the low nose. Some Western Maryland units used this
configuration.
In Canada, most roads that operated low front hood units and wide cab units
had the bell placed in between the number boards on the front of the
locomotive. I don't know if this was a requirement in Canada or just great
logic at work. Like the mount over the headlight as the Southern ordered,
this is a great location for the bell. In front and where it can be heard
without the obstructions of car bodies, fuel tanks and the like.
Then there was the electronic bell. This system used a speaker that emitted
and electronic sound resembling the sound of a bell. Well, that might be a
stretch. It actually sounded more like the alarm you hear in old war
pictures when a submarine is going to dive. The Milwaukee road and Alaska
Railroad opted for this electronic noisemaker. While pretty much all of the
existing former Milwaukee Road locomotives have since had the "dive alarm"
replaced with the traditional bell and clapper, some of the cab cars used
in commuter train service in the Chicago area are, or at least were, still
equipped with this feature as recently as just a few years ago. I believe
the Alaska Railroad still has many of their units equipped with this
warning device though.
Let's go back up on the roof for a few minutes. Whistles on locomotives
have been ordered in various formats and placed in numerous locations.
There are several different brands of whistles including Leslie and Nathan.
There is also an outfit in Canada that produces them as well, but I cannot
recall the name of the company. And as I write this, I am a long way from
home to go and look it up, so hopefully somebody reading this will point it
out.
In the early days of diesel there was the "honker" style of whistle. This
was a single note, single flute whistle that sounded like either a goose
honking or a cow mooing when sounded. Some locomotives had two of these
honkers, one facing forward and the other to the rear. Other locomotives
only had one of them. The whistle quickly began to evolve with the two,
three and five chime whistles being developed. These numbers would indicate
the number of flutes or individual whistle chimes per whistle. The model
number of them would also indicate the number of chimes such as a P-5 or
N-3.
The more chimes in the whistle, the louder and also more musical they can
sound. Some whistles do sound much better and than others. The IC 6117 has
a very musical sounding whistle while other units have them that sound more
like something out of a horror movie with lots of sharps or flats in the
chimes. Many Canadian units also have whistles that are very pleasant to
listen to. When you have to sound them for a hundred crossings or more per
trip, you want something that sounds good, not annoying.
The placement of the whistle on the locomotive is also determined on a road
for road basis. The standard location was on the cab roof. It could be
right above the headlights or offset to the left or right of them. The Soo
Line while opting for roof mount had many of theirs mounted on the right
slope of the roof right above the Engineer.
The roads that took the honkers on their early Geep models often had them
mounted on the sides of the car body. One would be placed in front of the
cab on the short high hood facing that direction while the other would be
mounted on the opposite side of the locomotive on the long hood portion of
the car body facing the other direction, In this form of mounting both of
them faced away from the cab itself. Other roads mounted them on the top of
the short high hood or above the engine room behind the exhaust stacks and
in front of the air intake fans.
Roads like the N&W opted for the mount right behind the cab roof. Being
that N&W units were frequently used in either direction, this sort of had
the whistle centralized on the locomotive. EJ&E had them mounted this way
as well on their first set of SD38's. Subsequent orders had them placed
over the cooling fans.
The Union Pacific and Canadian Pacific ordered their whistles placed right
above the cooling fans for many years on EMD built power, This was an ideal
spot as aside from having it directly over the heads of the crew in the
cab, they were located in a spot that reduced the likelihood of them
filling up with snow when plowing through drifts. And being that they were
right above the cooling fans, there was also plenty of warm air hitting
them to help keep them from freezing or clogging up when snow did get
inside them.
Grand Trunk Western mounted the whistles on their older Geeps at the front
of the long hood end just along side the bell. Southern took this idea one
step further. They began to order a set of whistles at both ends of the
locomotive mounted at the top front of either hood. The whistle was tied
into the reverser handle on units so equipped. The only set of whistles
that would sound would be the one that corresponded with the direction in
which the reverser handle was facing.
The types of whistles were also determined by the railroads. Some opting
for three chimes while others went with the louder five chime models.
Amtrak, Southern, N&W, the Missabe and the Family Lines System were some of
the roads opting for the five chime variety.
Now I should point out that even though the whistle uses air and not steam
to make it work, we still call it a whistle and not a horn. A horn is on
your car or truck. We whistle off when we acknowledge a signal. We whistle
the crossing. We don't horn them. Even though the newer power has a label
that says "Horn" next to the whistle button, it is still the whistle. And
many railroads still have whistle posts along the track with the letter "W"
on them. Nowhere has then been a reported sitting of a horn post with an
"H."
Now to the armrests by the windows; the armrests at the base of the windows
are standard. Some roads stay with the standard offering while others opt
for larger ones. Union Pacific ordered the larger ones on their standard
cab locomotives.
Standard cab locomotives were offered with movable wing type windows. These
were clear plastic or glass panes mounted on a metal bracket. This usually
had several adjustment stops to keep the outside air from blowing directly
into your face, just like the old wing windows on older automobiles. Some
roads added a small adjustable rear view mirror on them. The mirror was
placed either at the top or bottom of the wing window. Other roads upgraded
with a full length rear view mirror. This mirror replaced the wing window
and extended from top to bottom of the window frame; my personal
preference. Another type of rear view mirror is a 4X6 size that is fully
adjustable to any individual's preference. Locomotives with this type of
mirror have no wing window. I'll take the wind if I can have the mirror.
Above the windows, many roads opt for awnings. The awning comes in handy
for several reasons. When raining on warm days, you can have the window
open and not have the rain come right in as the awning will deflect it.
Most roads have movable awnings that will fold down. When in the down
position they can be used as a visor or sun block when the sun is shining
into your side windows. When the sun is up high in the sky, the awning will
act as a sun visor when in the up position.
In years past, some roads opted for a canvas type of awning. Other roads
went for the steel model. The steel version held out much better and
eventually won out. I haven't seen a canvas awning in over twenty years
now, except in pictures or on locomotives in museums.
Some roads, generally in colder climates, will order storm or bay windows
on the cab sides. These are an extra set of window set in a cabinet of
sorts that mounts directly onto the car body around the side windows of the
cab. Grand Trunk and Soo Line were two big users of such devices. Other
roads have been known to purchase removable models that fit inside the
regular window frame instead of on the car body. This allows quick
installation or removal and will allow them to be used on any locomotive
assigned to cold climate areas. We used this version on the MoPac as our
collective bargaining agreement required them on all yard engines assigned
to Chicago between November 1st and April 1st.
And then there are paint schemes. In the days when diesels began to make
inroads in the rail industry, it was with switch engines. These switchers
were pretty much all delivered in your basic black paint. As the process of
dieselization really took off railroads began to develop their own
signature paint schemes. In some cases, some railroads let the artists at
EMD develop a paint scheme for them. The gray, yellow and maroon of the
Delaware, Lackawanna & Western and later Erie Lackawanna and the very
similar scheme used by the Algoma Central were developed by EMD. The black
and white scheme used by the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio was developed by EMD as
well.
Some roads have used quite elaborate schemes over the years. And over the
years to reduce the cost, some of these very same roads have eventually
evolved to more simplified schemes. MoPac used an attractive blue and gray
scheme that was simplified to an all blue scheme in the early 1960's. CSX
for many years was not certain of its own identity and used several
variations of gray and blue. They finally settled on an attractive gray,
blue and yellow scheme that was dubbed the "bright future" scheme. Last
year they switched to a more somber solid blue with gold lettering paint
job that is often referred to as an "austerity" scheme. It has also been
called their "dark future" scheme as well. Word is it saves them $800 per
unit to use this paint scheme.
Norfolk Southern has always had your basic black, but over the years they
have made some improvements to it. First they added broken white stripping
to the side sills for better visibility. Last year the changed that to a
solid stripe. Their logo now features the "horsey head" superimposed upon
it. They also added white to the upper front of the cab. This sort of gives
the locomotives an appearance of having eyebrows. It does make it look
better than just the solid black of their earlier years.
It has often been said that you can observe the health of a railroad by
watching the changes in their paint. When they suddenly switch to a simple
one, it might mean they are trying to reduce costs as perhaps, things are
not going well there financially.
With that we'll close out part one. Be sure to tune in next week when we
continue with options and alternatives.
And so it goes.
Tuch
Hot Times on the High Iron, ©2004 by JD Santucci
This is very silly.
I think you meant: (which is still incorrect, it lacks a complete address)
You need a space between the img and the src, for img src, you do not put quotes around a the address of the image. And finally you need to specify where the file is, domain and all from the http://www. on up, not just the file name, "clip_image002.jpg" won't cut it.
If I may so suggest, you might wanna check out: http://www.ibdguy.com/
If you'll provide the complete address to the file you want to post, I'll write the HTML to display it for you.
I think you meant: < img src=clip_image002.jpg > (which is still incorrect, it lacks a complete address)
Also note that there is an empty space between the < and the img, just drop the extra space. I can't seem to make it work just typing it in with entities, I know there's a way, but it escapes me as yet. Aiyee or Oprah see that as HTML and tries to do something with it, the same thing happened in your post.
Something about the blind leading the blind should go here!
You need a space between the img and the src, for img src, you do not put quotes around a the address of the image. And finally you need to specify where the file is, domain and all from the http://www. on up, not just the file name, "clip_image002.jpg" won't cut it.
If I may so suggest, you might wanna check out: http://www.ibdguy.com/
If you'll provide the complete address to the file you want to post, I'll write the HTML to display it for you.
The tunnel breathes.
The trains come.
The tracks hum.
Is it a (6)?
Is it a (4)?
Wall made of bricks?
Open the door.
It is a (4) train to Woodlawn.
Not the snore train to Hoodgone.
I know a SubTalker with that same handle!
I also know he is a disliker of the vandal!
But the heck with that. Let's get on the train.
I heard that it's starting to rain.
Good thing it's not water on the brain!
This train is led by an R142A
and it's number is 7720.
We love the fact that its inside ain't gray
because then we'd be as bored as the janny (janitor).
We take the train to the last stop.
This is the last stop on this train, everyone please leave the train, thank you for riding with MTA New York City Transit.
The doors open up and something goes bop.
This poem was arranged and typed by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn (who will be on SubTalk and BusTalk 'till he dies!).
I hope you like it. :-)
P.S.: The R142A car number used for this poem is the number of an R142A I railfanned on the (4) all the way from Woodlawn to Utica Avenue once.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Can you try a haiku? :P
:)
-Ben Diamond
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
(Just realized the typo at last sec.)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
(Just realized the typo at last sec.)
til next time
||||||||Click Here||||||||
-Chris
The IRT.
The best system to me...
with smaller rolling stock...
using numbered routes like 4, 5 and 3.
Whether it's the R62A's rumbling on the 1,
or the 6 heading along the Pelham Line,
that last 9 just finished it's Skip-Stop run,
I hope the 2's on time.
I need to buy a Metrocard...
to ride the system with glee...
wait a minute, was that a Redbird...
hurdling on the 3?
I was sadly mistaken, just a certain dream...
a silly fantasy.
But with thanks with this upcoming MOD trip...
I'll be having the time of my life.
The IRT's so much more solid...
I can cut Division B with a knife.
The BMT is too wide for me.
Why bother with the IND?
They can never amount much...
They'll never move me.
The Sea Beach N.
The Concourse B.
The Canarsie L.
The Queens Blvd. E.
Such boring routes, how did they become reality?
Oh yeah, the BMT was busy expanding...
and the IND just tore everything down...
But the IRT stayed for the count.
Standards, the Crosstown, the Broadway and Chrystie...
Arnines, West End, Culver and EE.
Double letters, they made no sense.
Single numbers still reign: no Flushing-bound 11 ever went.
Why do Division B fans even bother?
Why do they survive?
The Z can't hold a candle...
To the 1's complement; the 9.
I love the IRT.
I think I've made it clear:
Hey Division B fans... check the mirror.
What do you see:
Drab Zephyr models painted green...
and a shirt saying, 'Blow the IRT?'
Who cares about you guys...what do you owe?
An overbloated system with boring GO's.
The G is cut because of the V,
The N misses the Bridge...
Sea Beach Fred has a stroke,
and DefJef complains about an R150 B.
Selkirk is clamoring...
about Bush and politicos,
American Pig and RonInBayside are at it again...
Who's upset the most?
Hey, how did I go off-topic?
What did I do?
This is getting problematic...
Should I follow Selkirk and go Moo?
I forgot what I was talking about,
but it's plain to see:
I love the IRT and the IRT loves me!
: ) Elias
Tarrytown...
Still on the Minolta Dimage? These pictures look a lot crisper and better in terms of image quality than before.
:-) Andrew
You should've gone into the waiting room at the intercity bus terminal. The man there is very nice, and he's got a cool collection of model scenicruisers.
Well here is a new design. Feel free to comment on it. This isn't official or anything and I don't work for the MTA or any of its consultants. Just my personal idea given you guys input.
Oh and Rail Blue, ain't double arrows a great thing? :-P
AEM7
If they were to ever bring back the interlocking lowercase "t" and "a" (keep the dirty thoughts to yourselves! ;) ) then that'd be cool.
Especially when they run on the left ;-)
: )
Mark
Mark
What do you think?
Also, try to come up with your own custom logo and post it here.
(BTW, the current MTA logo is fine and will probably not be changed any time soon. I'm just trying to see what people would like to see in an MTA logo.)
-Chris
The current logo sucks. Bring back the blue and silver "M in a circle."
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Regards,
Jimmy
Chuck :-)
Ben F. Schumin :-)
til next time
Excellent work.
Anyways, it was post #596225 3rd from the bottom on the right column.
http://www.railfanwindow.com/subtalkstupidx123/596255.htm
Incognito
Subtalk Stupid Stupider?
Well apparently for M4, it came.
That same weekend (the 25th?) there's also a show in Upstate NY along
Route 17 or so?? Have any 1 of you Upstaters heard any specs on that show?
The Show will be in the "Main Arena" IIRC... runs from 10am to 4pm both days.
A clear & concise alternative to BERA.
that didn't help 1 bit. (stony brook won me cleanly)
thanks 4 your detailed writeup, tho.
http://www.geocities.com/gc3846/April-May_pics/1490.jpg
For the HO sets, check Train World in Brooklyn. Their price for the Bachman R-17 sets (there has been one in red, one in silver/blue) was $149.95 when I got mine. I got two sets of each, so I can run eight-car trains--each set has one powered car and three non-powered, which is probably why the seller didn't want to break up the sets. You might want to look at the Images Replicas kits if you just want static models. They are great runners.
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
dissapointed
Sorry, I meant disappointed.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Distant future - 2020s: R-46s will be facing retirement as they approach 50 years old + 2nd Avenue Subway will require rolling stock. Likely, the 2AS will be built to handle 75' cars so at that point, 75' cars are possible if not likely.
Who knows... maybe they will poke a tunnel through to Statten Island and run a shuttle between Albany and Tottenville. After all, who knows where th next legislative boss might live!
Elias
That sounds like you know the R44's will be replaced by the R160's. Or are you just speculating?
I do believe *that* was the plan!
LONG LIVE THE R-32s!
Robert
I really like how Mr. Logan got almost the whole train in and, of course, that he took that shot when the cars were brand new a few years back.
Yours?
Thanks.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Thank you for your contribution. Hope my latest poll catches on w/ everyone else. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Below are some impressive shots I enjoy as well. I'm sure there are more, but I have to look some more. :)
1.
2.
3.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Look at the Redbird!
Look at the Redbird!
I did not expect to like this hotel as much as I did. I had read mixed reviews on the Internet on the Hotel Allegro. Plus, I had to pay $139 a night, when in the past Ive stayed at the Intercontinental, right on N. Michigan Ave, at a similar rate. However, there was a huge medical convention in town, and I was lucky to have a room, at any price.I enjoyed the décor of the Allegro-it was very unique and quite different from the standard Hyatt, Marriott, etc. But what was the biggest surprise for me was what a great location this hotel has. Originally, I would have preferred to be in the North Michigan Avenue or River North areas; I was afraid that the Loop would be dead on weekends and in the evening. But the Allegro was in the Theater district, and quite the contraryit was really busy at night and on weekends. As an added bonus, it was only two short blocks to great shopping on State Street (Marshall Fields, Borders etc. There were even enough people out so that I felt comfortable walking back to the hotel after dark.There is a small fitness room in the hotel, but it seemed kind of stuffy. An added bonus is that for $8, you can use the historic Randolph Athletic club, across the street from the hotel. They have a nice looking lap poll (Al Capone, I think used to swim in it), which I didnt have the time to use.Another big bonus of the hotels location is that its a short one block walk to the Lake/Clark CTA station. Here you can catch a train to OHare for only $1.50!A few negatives regarding the hotel: elevators can be slow at check-out time; I could hear some limited noise from the other rooms, and I wish there were more channels on the TV. But these are relatively minor faults. Also, there is a trendy restaurant in the hotel (I think its called 312 Chicago) and its impossible to get in there without a reservation on Friday or Saturday nights, when there is theater going on. One important thing to note is that the rooms and bathrooms are small. It didnt bother me, since I was in Chicago by myself, mostly for business. However, if another person had been sharing the room with me, I would have felt crowded, and would have preferred a larger room.Anyhow, I enjoyed my stay at the Allegro and look forward to returning here, or to either of its two sister properties the Monaco or the Burnham.
Learn to use google.com and find sites.
AEM7
First, I was in the Pelham Bay Park station on the (6)/<6>. I was waiting for the train, and it came. But the T/O drove the train in too fast and crashed it. I was probably thinking about a 1950's R17 accident at the same station on the same line. BTW, the station was not an el. It was underground in the dream. Creepy, huh? Well get ready for the next part.
Next, I dreamed that an R68/A (D) train entered the 7th Avenue Station (looked like it). It overshot the platform. I got on. All of a sudden, I was in the first car. And...Ellen Greene was the T/O (gotta limit watching Little Shop of Horrors)! We came to a junction that appeared out of nowhere and she crashed the train. When I "died" in the dream was when I woke up and found that it was all fake and that the NYC Subway System is out of the 70s, you crazy brain of Ben Diamond's!
I'm glad that Pelham Bay Park is an el, we don't have actors for T/Os, and that I am alive. One heck of a creepy dream.
Just felt like sharing it.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Ben is only 11 years old.
Puberty hasn't kicked in yet (give it another year).
Mark
And, if I may be presumed to speak for everyone else, we don't particularly want to know.
Yes, we thank 4traintowoodlawn for his good taste and discretion in this regard!
Mark
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Broadway Buffer
AEM7
Plenty of adult men think the same way
Plenty of adult men think the same way
Sadly, this is so true, including some who enjoy this hobby too much.
And theres nothing wrong if a guy doesnt like girls, but as long as he likes something other than trains or animals, its all good!!!
Well hey I have a life outside of transit so the foamer term will NOT apply to me [EVER!] 8-).
That's quite a wide eyes, foaming smile you got there though!
That's quite a wide eyed, foaming smile you got there though!
PS: I love trains and they are kinda like my life, but that doesn't stop me from hanging with my friends and doing other things.
Chuck
Um, no. Those are just my tastes that I care about subways more than girls.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I'll tell ya what I used to say to endear myself to car inspectors - MY job is to ruin 'em, your job is to fix them, here's the paperwork, have a nice day. :)
Yeah, I was told a few tales of how happy the operating department should be that they even fire up, no thanks to "us." Heh. And as to repair work, I'm good with delicate electronics, but DON'T hand me a plug wrench if you love your equipment, I'm all thumbs on mechanical stuff, and WILL cross thread the sumbeech ...
And I'll keep my dreams about girls to myself, thank you very much.
One time when I was like 6 I dreamed the Queens Boulevard Line was in my closet, and the L train came out of my kitchen, zigzagged through the dining room, and right by the couch in my front room...
And oh yeah when I was little (like 4 or 5 years old) I kept dreaming that there was a Z train sitting in the front room, and if I ever stepped out of my bed (or so much as leaned a foot over the edge of it) that it would come out and run me over. Then there was the time where I was on a field trip and they made the students drive the trains, and they all derailed and ended up on the street.
The most recent subway-related dream I had was a couple of weeks ago, where I seemed to be trapped in some kind of video game. Well I thought I had finished the game and was about to leave it, when I stumbled across a room I had not yet explored. Inside this room was a 3-car subway train (dunno what the phook it was, but it kinda resembled an R-68. It was as wide as the uptown platform on the lower level at 145th Street). I picked up a remote lying on the floor and started playing with the buttons, and the train started moving. Before I knew it I was operating the train from the railfan window by remote control...and we zipped through Brooklyn Bridge station which was a local stop with 4 tracks and a Redbird went by on one of the local tracks. Then the next stop was Union Square which was an express stop, I tried to bring the train to a halt but overshot the platform, I was scrambling around on the remote trying to figure out which button is the emergency brake. Finally I found it and dumped the train (the IRONY - I had to actually go out of my way to figure out how to dump it!) but it's like it didn't do anything, I heard the sound of the brakes but the train never even came to a stop. I walked three cars back and sat down and waited for the train to stop, but it just slowed down to 5 MPH and then just kept rolling and rolling. Then all of a sudden we weren't on the train anymore.
It was a nightmare for me because I couldn't stop the train, although for a T/O it would probably be some wonderful dream if they didn't have to hold down the controller to keep from dumping and didn't even have to sit in the cab.
Steve, my romantic social life is really inactive at this time.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Regards,
Jimmy
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Broadway Buffer
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
http://njscuba.net/reefs/site_redbirds.html
Pictures of Redbirds before and after sinking off the coast of NJ.
Anyhow, will you be on the Transit Museum YawnFest?
When I first joined this board everyone acted as serious railfans. Questions were asked and answered, new information was posted to be shared.
I am not overjoyed at the level some have dropped to in here but it is Dave's board. If he is OK with it who am I to argue.
As for the TM yawnfest - I have not been on one of the NT trips in over 10 years and besides those are for the tourists. I don't go on too many M.O.D. trips (although I might do the SMEE on 4/25) because there are just so many times one can ride over the same trackage on the same (or any) equipment. Besides at $40 a pop it can get rather exepensive. I went on the R1/9 because I hadn't ridden those in ages.
You have ridden an R-12 recently?
(clickable)
See, it's kind of nice that there is a "gravesite" to visit for Redbird fans. Us R16 and R30 fans can't see the "graves" of our old friends unless we visit the soup cans we used a few years back.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
*I saw original blueprints of the Eastern Parkway station with an underground passageway to the Brooklyn Museum (then the Brooklyn Institute of Arts & Sciences) while doing some research on the early years of IRT in Brooklyn.
Crossing that plaza is a challenge for even the best among us.
On the street were an NBC news van and some police in full dress uniforms. Apparently, there was going to be some formal ceremony with dignitaries regarding the upcoming re-opening of the Brooklyn Museum (I heard it's this Saturday). One of the highlights of the new structure is a 'water garden' that was designed by the same team that created the now famous water fountain at the Bellaggio Hotel (Las Vegas). I don't much care for all the new glass-and-frame superstructure, but the grounds itself are a vast improvement over the old, boring, main entrance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/14/nyregion/14subway.html
April 14, 2004
The Subway That Started It All
By MICHAEL LUO
mid the daily scrum of the New York City subway, few ever go looking for the past. Rushing to work or home, from one appointment to the next, riders scurry past mysterious doors that lead nowhere, walled off platforms and stairwells, faded sections of tile and other odd artifacts of history without a second glance.
But this being the subway's centennial year, Joseph Brennan and Joseph Cunningham, a pair of transit buffs, agreed the other day to lead a small band in search of the original 1904 subway.
Mr. Brennan, 52, helps administer the e-mail system at Columbia University but has never outgrown his childhood fascination with trains. A few years ago, he put together a Web site on the city's abandoned subway stations. Mr. Cunningham, 52, has written several books on the subway. On weekends, he volunteers as a tour guide for the New York City Transit Museum.
The city's subway system first opened as a single line on Oct. 27, 1904. It began at City Hall and ranged north to Grand Central, where it made an abrupt turn west to a sleepy area that had recently been renamed Times Square, before finally heading north again to 145th Street.
The original City Hall station was the system's centerpiece, with vaulted ceilings, skylights and chandeliers. But it closed in 1945. So, the hunt for the 1904 subway begins aboveground. Gesturing at the empty plaza, Mr. Brennan explains how the original line swung out from Brooklyn Bridge station and looped around in front of the steps of City Hall.
And down in the Brooklyn Bridge station, at the southernmost end of the downtown platform for the No. 6 train, Mr. Brennan and Mr. Cunningham point into the gloom, where the tracks disappear around a sharp bend. City Hall station is just around the corner.
A short distance up the platform, he ducks down to peer into a control room across the tracks. Through the glass window, the outline of a staircase is etched on the far wall, like fossilized remains in a cave. There used to be side platforms in this station, for passengers to unload out the rear of the train, Mr. Cunningham says.
Upstairs in the mezzanine, the two men stop in front of a 50-foot section of wall of yellowing tile and red brick wainscoting, by the exit to Brooklyn Bridge. The station was renovated once in the early 1960's and again in the 1990's. But this length of original wall survived.
"It's the one place they didn't touch," Mr. Brennan says.
The group heads next for Bleecker Street. Along the way, the train rattles past the Worth Street station, closed in 1962, one of four now abandoned stations that were part of the original line. Bleecker Street is rare among the original stations because all eight of its medallion-style plates have survived. Walking north, the original white tile walls, with red wainscoting, give way abruptly to a two-tone green, marking an extension made in the early 1960's. (The original stations all had to be extended at some point because local platforms were only 225 feet long and express platforms 350 feet, whereas the modern standard is 525 feet.)
"There was no attempt to blend here," Mr. Brennan says.
For the next stop, they skip Astor Place, a favorite among subway historians for the decorative terra-cotta beaver plaques. But Mr. Cunningham is dismissive: "Everyone knows about the beavers."
Instead, they head to Union Square, where they climb the platform stairs to the passageway connecting the Lexington Avenue line to the N, R, Q and W trains. Here, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has actually made an effort to preserve its history. Like sentinels, six jagged columns of concrete and tile line the busy passageway. They are remnants of the original two-story walls that used to extend from the platforms. At the tops of these walls, bronze-colored eagles, clutching crests bearing the number "14," looked down on the tracks. For decades, these columns were hidden behind an area used for storage, Mr. Cunningham says. But in the late 1990's, when workers knocked out the walls to create the new passageway in the mezzanine, the columns were left on display, with the crests now at eye-level.
At 23rd Street, the group surfaces briefly to head over to the downtown side. Over by a bus map, an original green tile mosaic has survived.
The two men press on to Grand Central, weaving their way to the platform for the shuttle to Times Square. The original 1904 subway line headed north on Park Avenue and then curved left to enter Grand Central at 42nd Street near Madison Avenue.
Grand Central was an express station, with two local and two express tracks. But one of the downtown express tracks was covered up in 1918, when the Lexington Avenue line was extended north. The original Grand Central station was converted into a shuttle station.
Entering the shuttle area, the track on the far left, Track 1 for the shuttle, is the only one of the three that extends through the station today like the original line did. The track bends south, eventually connecting further down in the tunnel to the downtown tracks near 39th Street.
Over in Times Square, plenty of 1904 remnants can be found. Back then, the area above the subway station had just been renamed, after The New York Times built its new headquarters there. At the shuttle platform, above a map of Midtown, the outline of an archway can be seen under a thick coat of brown paint. It marks the old entrance to the Times building.
Up at 59th Street/Columbus Circle, Mr. Cunningham and Mr. Brennan are interested in only a portion of the station, because much of it was gutted in the 1930's to accommodate a passageway to the Eighth Avenue line.
"Check out the ceiling," Mr. Cunningham says, stopping about 75 feet south of the turnstiles on the uptown side.
Protected by a wooden newsstand that went into the station shortly after it opened and was only removed in the 1980's, a large swath of peeling beige-painted ceiling has been preserved. Intricate rosettes stud supporting beams and encircle light fixtures.
At 66th Street/Lincoln Center, Mr. Cunningham says, "Here we have the old-old and the new-old." In a renovation in the late 1990's, workers installed new station plaques, done in the original 1904 style, but the "LC," woven into the "66," give them away. Lincoln Center did not exist in 1904, Mr. Cunningham says.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
BTW, see you can learn something new every day! I always thought those "columns" at Union Square were brought up from the lower level, and placed as "subway art" on the "catwalk":
[At Union Square}, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has actually made an effort to preserve its history. Like sentinels, six jagged columns of concrete and tile line the busy passageway. They are remnants of the original two-story walls that used to extend from the platforms. At the tops of these walls, bronze-colored eagles, clutching crests bearing the number "14," looked down on the tracks. For decades, these columns were hidden behind an area used for storage, Mr. Cunningham says. But in the late 1990's, when workers knocked out the walls to create the new passageway in the mezzanine, the columns were left on display, with the crests now at eye-level.
COme to think of it, it all makes sense now! It never crossed my mind that those eagles were always two levels above the tracks!
(Bottom photo from Joe Brennan's site)
For the experienced railfan, this article reads like Subways 101. I'm sure that tour would have been quite boring for any of us, as we are all quite familiar with the sites they visited.
A small victory: MTA fixes escalator signs
BY JOE RAPPAPORT
amNewYork Columnist
In the scheme of things — war, terrorist threats, weekend diversions on the 7 line — it is a minor victory. But sometimes it is these small triumphs that give you hope.
With that in mind, Rush Hour Reality is proud to report that, in response to our March 18 column, the electronic signs near the escalators at the West 4th Street are actually conveying useful messages! No longer do they flash “MTA” repeatedly. An observant Clarence Eckerson had pointed out that the signs had malfunctioned for five years straight, he said.
Eckerson wrote to say that soon after our column the MTA fixed the signs. They now flash escalator safety messages.
Unfortunately, we’re a little low on other victories to brag about. I’ll visit more transit hot spots soon. But on the off-chance that someone in the bureaucracy would like to make a transit rider’s day, here are a couple more complaints that I’ve received:
Roseanne Drapcat wrote about a dangerous condition in a passageway at Times Square — now in its third or fourth year of rehab.
“The floor presently has several layers of uneven, bumpy terrain,” wrote the College Point, Queens, resident. “There are numerous
potholes along the way with rocks imbedded in them. I have seen many people stagger on this walkway, along with a child who did a belly
flop, and an elderly woman who fell to her knees.”
I took a stroll through the station a few days ago and found the same condition. How about getting that new floor in soon?
A pothole on Riverside Drive at 108th Street in Manhattan is Hal Levinsohn’s beef. “It is exactly where the [M5] bus stops and I almost fell into it the other day,” he wrote.
An inspection showed that, yes, that’s one deep hole. There’s another in the street, marked by a Department of Environmental Protection
sawhorse. But no repair crew.
Levinsohn has already tried calling 311, the city’s complaint line, so we’ll try the column.
I actually went by the station yesterday on a northbound D train, and noticed this.
Peace,
ANDEE
Those signs are actually a nusiance. They are a maintenacne burden, and they almost never display useful information for a variety of reasons. The most common reason being the communications link between the signs and the control center is not implemented. The sign is the cheap thing to buy, and the expensive thing to maintain. The comms link is the expensive thing to buy, and cheap thing to maintain. Since the link was (usually) never even bought in the first place, I don't understand why they installed the signs at all. Those signs are nothing but a headache, and don't serve the travellers any good UNLESS the link is in place. Yes, in WMATA they have those signs displaying useful information. You can afford to do that when you put in a brand new signalling system. Not when you are running around trying to retrofit everything. The one case where the signs might make sense is where CBTC is being fitted and the signal systems are getting gutted anyway.
Shame on amNewYork for wasting precious MTA resources on a stupid sign.
AEM7
What do you expect from Newsday (which is a waste of paper and ink).
with this:
(the signs that show train frequencies, etc.)
Displaying escalator safety messages was all that was intended for the signs referred to in the articles.
What's wrong with a placard? Or even, an illuminated placard?
Let's see... Escalator safety messages...
Ride safe.
Escalators are for passengers only.
Face forward, please hold handrail.
Children should hold grown-up's hand, NOT the handrail.
Step on and off quickly. Don't ride off.
Never run up or down on escalators.
Never sit on steps or handrails.
Never rest umbrellas on escalator steps.
Avoid the sides of the escalator.
No large objects should be carried on escalators.
Have a great day.
...Those are the ones that I can think of right now, and "Stay to the right if you're not climbing/descending the steps" is not one of them, but it should be.
There are some stations where there are announcements which say these messages. The only one I can think of is the escalator that links the Eastern Parkway (J)(Z) station with the Broadway-East New York (A)(C) station.
Let's see... Escalator safety messages...
Ride safe.
Escalators are for passengers only.
Face forward, please hold handrail.
Children should hold grown-up's hand, NOT the handrail.
Step on and off quickly. Don't ride off.
Never run up or down on escalators.
Never sit on steps or handrails.
Attend your children, Hold your child, Fold your stroller.
Never rest umbrellas on escalator steps.
Avoid the sides of the escalator.
No large objects should be carried on escalators.
Have a great day.
...Those are the ones that I can think of right now, and "Stay to the right if you're not climbing/descending the steps" is not one of them, but it should be.
There are some stations where there are announcements which say these messages. The only one I can think of is the escalator that links the Eastern Parkway (J)(Z) station with the Broadway-East New York (A)(C) station.
You can show all those things on a poster right by the escalator, away from the entrance to the escalator. The way the MBTA does it.
AEM7
And here's the full list, in order.
Ride Safe. (f)
Escalators are for passengers only. (m)
Face forward, [Please/Adults,] hold handrail. (f)*
Children should hold Grown-up's hand, NOT the handrail. (m)
Step on and off quickly. Don't ride off. (f)
Never run up or down on escalators. (m)
Never sit on steps or handrails. (f)
Attend your children. Hold your child, fold your stroller. (m)
Never push strollers on escalators while riding. (f)
Never rest umbrellas on escalator steps. (m)
Avoid the sides of the escalator. (f)
No large packages or objects should be carried on escalators. (m)
Have a great day. (f)
* The signs say "Adults," while the announcements say "Please."
(f) and (m) indicate which gender voice says the announcement.
The bilingual announcements at Main Street have not been observed.
These sign readings were observed at the 73rd Street escalators at the Roosevelt Avenue/74th Street-Broadway station, which has signs similar to those at West 4th Street and 5th Avenue/53rd Street, which, until recently, said nothing but "MTA."
[You can show all those things on a poster right by the escalator, away from the entrance to the escalator. The way the MBTA does it.]
There isn't much room to put such a sign. I think the station wasn't originally built with escalators, so they needed to use as little platform space as possible when they installed them.
BTW, see you can learn something new every day! I always thought those "columns" at Union Square were brought up from the lower level, and placed as "subway art" on the "catwalk":
[At Union Square}, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has actually made an effort to preserve its history. Like sentinels, six jagged columns of concrete and tile line the busy passageway. They are remnants of the original two-story walls that used to extend from the platforms. At the tops of these walls, bronze-colored eagles, clutching crests bearing the number "14," looked down on the tracks. For decades, these columns were hidden behind an area used for storage, Mr. Cunningham says. But in the late 1990's, when workers knocked out the walls to create the new passageway in the mezzanine, the columns were left on display, with the crests now at eye-level.
COme to think of it, it all makes sense now! It never crossed my mind that those eagles were always two levels above the tracks!
(Bottom photo from Joe Brennan's site)
Mark
ZIPCAR!!!! www.zipcar.com -- I don't know if they are in Filly yet. If not, maybe you can persuade them to start a franchise there.
Mark
It would be much more expensive in NYC.
Mark
Robert
I compared insurance once and an estimate of $1,800 in Philly was only $1,200 for the same coverage in NYC (Manhattan). I did the comparison because I was deciding whether to register the car with my mom in Philly or myself in Manhattan. Luckily in the end, I didn't need to get the car.
I once read that 40% of drivers are uninsured in Philly. Unfortunately, I can't remember the reference for it. Philly overall is much poorer than NYC and most of the city is red-lined by insurance companies. If your home is worth $40,000 (this is not an exaggeration), you're probably not going to be able to afford $2,000/year for car insurance. So people get insurance, register the car, then cancel once they get the tags. Ultimately driving up insurance for those who do pay.
Fran
Fran
<<<<
This is insanity.. Driving without insurance is a huge fine. so much of our resources folks goes into this nothing producing product called auto unsurance. Since Philadelphia removed all their traction lines and bus service is probably horrible, the poor have no choice but to drive illegally.
This is why I moved to an area were bus and lightrail is abundant. The sacrifice people make in order to drive is incredible.
I saw a PA plate in Florida a few months ago. The guy ran the red light a long time after it changed, and he had a BLUE PA tag with a T sticker.
Putting a huge yellow sticker in the back windshield in philly county was a real "good" idea too.
what's going to be next?
Chuck Greene
But a big problem is that in Philly transit is seen as being for losers, and people will do anything to get behind the wheel of a car here, even when good transit is available, even if it means violating insurance laws.
And as far as fines for driving uninsured go, regulations are barely enforced, so why would people respect insurance laws?
Mark
Another common tactic to deal with insurance is that people find a relative outside the city and claim that as their residence. This is REALLY common not just among the poor, but the middle class as well.
An additional incentive for this strategy is the high city income tax. It was a 4.65% flat tax for EVERYONE. That's higher than NYC's tax rate for incomes over $100K (4.25%). Although NY State's income tax was tripple that of PA.
So the result of this was a lot of people lying about where they live.
I wonder how much of Philly's dwindling population is real, and how much is people lying about where they live.
I'm not sure what the actual rate is now, but it's actually lower for commuters than residents. Maybe that is fair to the commuters, I don't know. But a bad effect is that it provides a tax incentive to leave the city, and punishes you for staying! Teh biggest reward of course, is for those who not only leave the city but find work outside it, too. Philly's wage tax has been described as political heroin. The metaphor is way too rich here.
Mark
*I wonder how much of Philly's dwindling population is real, and how much is people lying about where they live.*
Trust me, a lot of it's real.
Mark
Oh well, I guess when the population goes to zero then we can start again.
With the population going down 30,000 people every 3-5 years, and less than 1.5mil left in the city, i calculate I have 48 years left to plan for that. Just a rough estimate.
Hardly unique to Philadelphia. New York has all three.
See my point? It would be easier to compare Philly with a place like Milwaukee, Detroit, or Chicago.
My point of view/image in my head, i wouldn't put Chicago in there. When I think of picking three big cities, I think of:
New York, LA, and Chicago.
I should put Miami in there and Atlanta instead of one of those, even dallas, why I don't? I dont' know. I guess those three cities have a strong "foundation" and roots to america.
And until about 15 or 20 years ago, the Big Four cities were NY, LA, Chicago, and Philadelphia. LA, though, is really only comparable to NY and Chicago in terms of population. Economically and developmentally they are completely different, as are all of the Sun Belt cities.
In reality, Philadelphia is still the fourth-largest CITY. Houston is really just a bunch of annexed suburbs around an older core.
Chuck Greene
Fines are no deterrent whatsoever to the sort of people who try to beat the system by driving without insurance. They simply won't pay. Sure, unpaid fines will result in license suspensions, but people who are willing to drive without insurance aren't likely to care if their licenses are suspended - they just keep driving. It's similar to the way Congress thought it could deter drunken driving by requiring states to impose mandatory 6-month license suspensions. Many people indeed get their licenses suspended for DWI convictions, but they just keep on driving. Worrying about niceties like insurance and licensing is a middle-class sort of thing. Those from the more proletarian end of society, who account for the bulk of uninsured drivers and DWI's, couldn't care less.
Let's face it, there's only one sort of deterrent that really works in these sort of situations. Hint - it's not fines, license suspensions, community service, suspended sentences or probation, if you catch my drift.
Manhattan might not be so bad. It's the Bronx and Brooklyn where rates are really high.
I once read that 40% of drivers are uninsured in Philly. Unfortunately, I can't remember the reference for it. Philly overall is much poorer than NYC and most of the city is red-lined by insurance companies. If your home is worth $40,000 (this is not an exaggeration), you're probably not going to be able to afford $2,000/year for car insurance. So people get insurance, register the car, then cancel once they get the tags. Ultimately driving up insurance for those who do pay.
Very common in NYC too. I've heard that in some parts of the city, a significant percentage of the drivers are "triple plays" - no license, unregistered vehicle, no insurance.
Now as for the many shortcomings of SEPTA, we could go on for days about that...
Mark
The insurance was only part of the problem. I accumulated numerous parking tickets as there is no where to park anymore and streets around my neighborhood require residence status stickers. I must have sent my mechanic's son to medical school with all the money I gave him in repairing my car. Then there were all the vandals who broke my windows, stole my radio and punctured the tires. OH.. Lets not forget the $10.00 dollars a week for gas and the oil changes, tune-ups etc, etc, etc.
If your're still healthy enough, you might want to get a bicycle. After not riding one in 15 years, I've rediscovered the incredible freedom from human powered transport. The bicycle liberated me from the bus and added an immense amount of pleasure during the weekends. I'm no longer dependant on poor weekend bus service anymore and can travel anywhere (within reason) for free.
Fortunately, the Hudson Bergen Lightrail helps when shopping and I couldn't imagine life without this service. The lightrail is limited but when used in conjunction with the bicycle, I can travel anywhere around town almost as fast as the motorist. You might be able to use folding bikes along with SEPTA.
This site by Paul Dorn got me stated..
http://www.runmuki.com/commute/
Rest assured, I have the same bicycle that I've been riding for 20 years, and it's still going strong. I did use it a lot more when I lived in NE Philly, though, where transit isn't as good. Here in West Philly I'm a block from three trolley routes, so I don't even need the bike that much. I mostly use it for crosstown trips in the nieghborhood, because crosstown service on the 64 bus isn't as good as downtown service on the trolleys. The 52 runs much more frequently, but the hike to 52nd street is a little long.
Some of SEPTA's newer buses have bike racks, but not all of them. The regional rail is the easiest to combine with biking, definitely, but only during off-peak hours are bikes allowed on the trains.
Mark
"You know you're from Philly if:
You think $2500 a year for car insurance on an 1989 Toyota Corolla is a great bargin"
Seriously, I don't know if it's because I grew up on the bus, but after living in car-only sprawl for about 2 years, when we took a trip to NY, and i was the first one to buy a weekly METROcard, I never felt so free before. I could go anywhere anytime, and it's all prepaid, no problems with idiot drivers or gas tanks.
Of course I get, why did you get that for, blah blah blah. Needless to say everyone else got one 3 days later, haha.
But there's something about going by bus or train, that makes me feel free-er. Probably has something to do with traffic doesn't equal freedom, a rapidly depleting gas tank doesn't either, and you always gotta park the thing instead of being dropped off.
congrats on getting rid of the contraption that's killing our young people in Iraq [F*%king ingrates!].
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I always thought that Lynbrook was named by homesick Brooklynites who moved out there, and simply reversed the two syllables of their ancestral dwelling place.
>>>>>
East Rockaway
Victims of Shipwrecks Buried by Villagers
Beginnings: Once it was called Near Rockaway because it was the section of the Rockaway peninsula closest to Hempstead. English settlers migrating from New England in the 1640s bought the land from a tribe called Rockawanahaha, meaning ``People of a Sandy Place,'' as it surely was.
<<<<
The village "centers" of Lynbrook (Say Merrick and Atlantic/Hempstead) and East Rockaway (say Main and Atlantic) are roughly 1.3 miles apart (which really isn't that much, and was pretty flat so it wouldn't take a long time by horse, or even walking), so it's possible that people referring to them in the old (Antebellum) days might have been confused, or vague, or whatever...
http://www.nassaulibrary.org/eastrock/history.htm
The Near Rockaway name is mentioned in the text article below the links on that page ("NASSAU DAILY STAR — THURSDAY, AUGUST 10,1933"), but the 1870s map (in the first link) of East Rockaway and Pearsell's Corner is pretty interesting...
Thnaks in advance for any suggestions.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
One more question: Can I combine the membership AND the food on one check, or 2 seperate checks are required?
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
It's particular others who carry the TUNA... so if you want your monies
to take the proper lineup, then make SURE you make it out to George.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
I hope one of my pictures is selected to be published on the Tripper newsletter.
Regards,
Jimmy
The group who selects the winners see the photos, but have no idea who submitted them, so last year one member won twice (you get to submit three photos).
Regards,
Jimmy
PS, I'll save you some food. But if they served Falafel , you'd be out of luck good friend. You got me hooked on them.
JLA
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
8 > ) ~ Sparky
Yes she was... glad she was back last year, and I presume we'll see her this year as well.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
For the experienced railfan, this article reads like Subways 101. I'm sure that tour would have been quite boring for any of us, as we are all quite familiar with the sites they visited.
Though I've never been to City Hall, pictures of the station past and present are readily available on the Net and I've seen them all numerous times. Same goes for 18th Street, Worth Street and 91st Street. I've been to the Brooklyn Bridge closed platforms (side and extensions). The 14th Street mosaics are available for viewing and pictures of how they were situated on the side platforms are available on the Net.
On the BMT, it seems that there's no trace of the old Delancey Street station at Essex Street. The phantom turnoffs and dead ends on the J/Z line have all been explained at length. Myrtle Avenue upper has been explained and photo'd at length. The closed lower levels at City Hall and 9th Avenue are well-represented in photographs. The Essex Street trolley station is under renovation but even it has been well-documented and explored. The Canal Street Bridge Line station is back in service, eliminating another favorite site of mine.
On the IND, the Roosevelt Avenue terminal station, one of my favorite mysterious places, has been visited and photographed. The bellmouths and turnoffs on the QB line have all been explained. The LIRR Rockaway connection A line has been explored fully on a few different sites. The only IND mysteries left for me are the Second System traces and these are either viewable from the platforms and I have already seen them, or probably closed off forever because of NYCT renovations.
Now I'm not complaining. In fact, I congratulate all railfans everywhere for so thoroughly exploring so many urban legends and using the Internet to broaden knowledge of the subway. But I think we're approaching the point where most of the interesting mysteries have been solved with none taking their places. Too bad.
The original old tile walls do exist in an area of about 3 or 4 feet wide (a stairway's width) at Essex St along much of the wall platform behind the current "cement block" wall. It was closed up in 1989 with the renovation there. Behind that wall are a few stairways (in a style similar to the way IND stairs come down).
The original tiles are pure white, with absolutely no mosaics or decoration, and are the "IRT-like" brick style tiles. Every so often they have a door open there, and you can see them.
That is the mystery !
However, Grand Street on the Lexington El was a stop for one direction only, however the Myrtle stopped there in both directions.
No idea what the shaft was for. Looking up reveals only darkness, though the it is tiled as the "shaft" ascends upward.
If I had a camera, I'd show you guys what I'm talking about.
Also did you noticed the misspelled tiles (the black squares high above you), that has BROADAWAY on one side?
Theres plenty of mysterious places like that.
As the weather gets better, think of where you can view the sunset; include a light dinner at Nathan's; do one of the bridges into Mahattan; side trip to a tourist spot (North Church: go to the bell tower, great view, then eat lunch in cafeteria), exit at Times Square and go for a walk, etc.
IND Faux IRT colors which covers the different types of tile bands used when IRT platforms were extended to 10 car lengths in the late 50's and early 60's.
IND tile colors which is shown both on www.nycsubway.org and www.stationreporter.net
BMT 'fridge tile colors of the 60's. (Though we all know how these tiles killed off the beauty of the formerlly tiled BMT stations.)
There is more stuff coming your way soon.
www.stationreporter.net
*with appologies to William Shakespeare
IMHO LR on 86th Street has much more merit than some turist trolley in Midtown.
1. 86th Street auto traffic has more local nature and is lighter.
2. There is more demand for public crosstown traffic than in Midtown, reflected by the significantly more frequent bus schedule.
Any thoughts,
Arti
Now, would it go under or through Central Park? Would there be as stop or 2 for central park(if under the park, a stairway to the park would work)
All in all, nice idea
I'd use the tranverse eliminating auto traffic on it. This should reduce the car volume on 86th even more.
Arti
Something like this:
Elias
M86 is the only regular service. So IMHO, there is no need for pavement.
_Something like this:_
I think that using 84th/85th Streets will have significant NIMBY opposition compared to 86th Street.
Also there Riverside drive is already overserved by M5.
Arti
It's possible to take a train from Jamaica to Penn during rush hour and not pay the fare.
«The transverse is 2 lanes each way, right?»
One lane.
«Take one lane in each direction, make it LRV, and the other bus.»
There's no need for bus, the LRV will replace it.
Arti
Ok, so it's only one lane each way. Make both into bus/lrv.
I wonder why?
Arti
So no particular reason to use the 86th Street transverse.
Arti
It would increase the construction and maintenance costs while reducing the allowable speed of LRV-s at the same time providing a negligible effect on the TRT of those buses.
Arti
How fast do you plan on running the LRV? I'm sure buses could run with the LRV and have minimal impact on the speed.
TRT???
Don't know, but it sure is more expensive than maintaining just a road.
«How fast do you plan on running the LRV?»
They could go 50 - 60 through the park.
«TRT???»
total running time.
Arti
Ok, that's what I assumed as far as max speed on the transverse would be. I still fail to see how a bus or 2 would affect that if it was traveling at the same speed, which is what it would be doing.
TRT may not be greatly affected, but atleast it comes close to gaurenteeing a clear shot across 1/3rd of Manhattan.
..or just a rail.
«TRT may not be greatly affected, but atleast it comes close to gaurenteeing a clear shot across 1/3rd of Manhattan.»
Why would anyone really care?
Arti
They can use the other transverse roads.
Elias
Concrete is expensive! Sure nobody ever notices, because the feds gladly shell out 1 to 2 billion here or there for assorted highway projects, but it adds up. And concrete with rails in them are even more expensive. On the other hand, rail laid by itself is relatively cheap, especially if you go with a somewhat rough standard, trolleys and LRVs shouldn't need gold plated perfectly laid track. If the 86th St Transverse was torn out completely and the ROW used for a trolley line across the park, it's likely be a very nice scene. Surely the idea of a low floor LRV silently gliding through the park in the winter, just past the semi-frozen Kennedy Onasis resevoir is appealing even to the most die-hard buswhore who has to sit on their bus a whole 15 minutes longer to carve out this tiny nirvana in the middle of Manhattan.
The purpose of those two diversions is operational rather than just for the convience of people along RSD.
The east end of the service is a loop, units do not stop.
At the west end half of the units go north the other half south and there are two tracks in each loop holding about four to six trains each. Makes a splendid place to have crew changes and to lay up out of service trains. Two loops allow for longer break periods before a crew must go out on the next run. You know, a potty break, maybe some coffee or donuts. Or do all your operators wear Attends?
Perhaps even building an undgerground car barn somewhere along there, maybe connecting with the existing AMTK line so that equipment can be easily added or removed from service. Since I am looking at diesel powered trams, they will not be able to enter Penn Station or go to Sunnyside Yard, but maybe the West Side LIRR yard can do maintenance on them: That yard will be empty of LIRR equipment at night and would make a splendid place to service 86th Street Trams.
You just can't say let's add some trams here, and not consider how they get there, and where the barns are, and crew facilities.
: ) Elias
Not that I really like the diesel idea or that I think it would fly in Manhattan, but your points against it are not valid.
The emission of a rail vechicle is much lower than that of a bus, neither is there a significant problem with the pollution generated by the buses.
The advantages of a LRV are larger passanger carrying capacity and lower energy consumption per passanger compared to buses.
Arti
I think it's a good idea.
Arti
I don't have any figures to support it but I'd assume LPG clean air buses would emit lower amount of pollution than any type of diesel engine.
neither is there a significant problem with the pollution generated by the buses.
Then why everywhere around the world we are trying to reduce it?
It is a much more serious issue than people smoking cigarettes on the street.
The advantages of a LRV are larger passanger carrying capacity and lower energy consumption per passanger compared to buses.
Large capacity vehicle would only work with POP or you get longer dwelling times. As I said in the other branch of this thread, the riding pattern of crosstown lines will not make POP feasible.
With or without rails, go electric and run smaller cars than the current articulated buses with more frequent service.
The frequency of the current bus service is not a problem. During rush hour you routinely get 2 of them at the same time, due to dwell times what are longer than scheduled departure times.
_I don't have any figures to support it but I'd assume LPG clean air buses would emit lower amount of pollution than any type of diesel engine. _
Rail vehicles require significantly less power per passanger capacity than non-rail vehicles.
Modern diesel engines (like Euro4 standard) exhaust probably cleaner air than they take in :-)
Arti
I don't have any figures to support it but I'd assume LPG clean air buses would emit lower amount of pollution than any type of diesel engine.
Actually these days a CNG engine (Compressed natural gas, which is more widespread and presumably cleaner than LPG) is dirtier than a straight diesel engine with EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation IIRC) and particulate traps burning Low Sulfer Diesel. The problem with CNG is that it only looks clean, they put out more greenhouse gasses than a diesel, and only lack the soot causing particles, which in modern bus engines the particulate trap takes care of anyway.
Then why everywhere around the world we are trying to reduce it?
Because you have to start somewhere? Admittedly cars probably account for 80% of the pollution out there, but big oil has them all wrapped up. Perhaps buses can be a testbed for alternative fuel arrangements and systems that cars can later utilize.
Large capacity vehicle would only work with POP or you get longer dwelling times. As I said in the other branch of this thread, the riding pattern of crosstown lines will not make POP feasible.
I know I said to make it free, but POP could work on a line that has frequent boarding and alighting. Multi-door boarding without payment at the door site is a must for short dwell times, so really the only solutions seem to be to do POP or make it free. I think that NYCTA could absorb the costs of a few crosstown lines if they were made free.
With or without rails, go electric and run smaller cars than the current articulated buses with more frequent service.
I would say that rails would be imperative, that way the magnitude of service is flexible, you can add vehicles without adding the cost of another operator. However, smaller cars than the artics would likely be unworkable, since New Yorkers have an innate ability to ignore the train behind and only think of the train in front of them.
OTOH, maybe a E60LF (Electric Trolleybus version of the D60LF the MTA tested last year) would not be a bad idea, just string some wire across 86th so that it can be electric, and if operated on a short (less than 5 min) headway it's size would be sufficient to cover all but the worst case scenarios.
With that you could even leave the two center lanes for car traffic, thereby easing what would no doubt be a bunch of bitching from the drivers of manhattan.
On a grander scale, how about an ETB network for Manhattan? Just looking at the map on mta.info, why not place the M16, M23, M27, M31, M34, M42, M57, M66, M72, M79, M86, M96, M106, M116, and possibly other routes under the wire? There'd be no real change to the systems apart from the wire, to keep it from being completely a BRT installation, but then the MTA could order some low floor artic or rigid ETBs, either New Flyer or Neoplan, and run them around the city without pollution and with minimal noise.
Of course that might run into problems from laws against overhead wires from whenever, but that's another issue for another branch of this thread.
Actually, making it free will allow the MTA to collect an extra fare from most people. : )
If they ride a bus or subway to or from the tram line, then it would be a free transfer.
If they ride either a bus or subway BOTH to and from the tram, then the extra fare is collected on the third vehicle!
: ) Elias
No. Under the current system, they pay a second time on the third vehicle. Under your system, if either the first or third vehicle (or both) are buses, then there is no second fare.
: ) THAT can be changed!
Elias
I know that POP is used in other places where rides are relatively short but we are dealing with New Yorkers here...:-)
how about an ETB network for Manhattan?
I would include M14 too.
Maybe not where Macy's thanksgiving parade crosses, though... :-p
that might run into problems from laws against overhead wires
The 42nd St. LRT was planned with overhead wires so maybe the laws have changed.
Or with no fare collected at all. Where do all of these people come from and where are they going. They cannot ALL both *live* and *work* on 86th Street. So why don't we just assume that they paid their fare on a bus or subway somewhere else on their trip and just let it go at that!
Elias
IIRC: NYC has a prohibition against overhead wires. Old street cars ran with an underground power rail.
A third rail is possible. How would a burried induction rail work, with no direct contact with a exposed rail.
Elias
Is it possible that current bus service is sufficient?
«Is it possible that current bus service is sufficient?»
Current bus service is slow mostly due to dwell times caused by large volume of passangers.
Arti
Use POP or stations.
«Passengers would still have to dip their MetroCards individually, and I doubt an LRV would have more doors than a bus.»
All the modern LRVs, I know of, have more doors than a bus. I'm envisioning something like HBLR.
Arti
As this is mostly a feeder service, I don't think it matters.
Arti
This doesn't mean, that the ride only 1 stop.
Also this makes POP (or fare controlled stations) even more attractive as a mens of speeding up service.
Arti
All the recent LR proposals for Manhattan specify overhead wire. Your assumption is based on nothing.
Arti
And how, pray tell, is that?
I'm not worried, it's impossible to look like a bigger fool than you now.
And just what would "motivate" the city to build LRT with the extant subway system?
I never talked about what would motivate the city to build LRT, I simply stated that if they were, the law would be no impediment. If you are too stupid to understand that, don't bother responding.
Rest assured, if such a system were to miraculously appear, it would be third-rail like the TARS, no ifs, ands or buts. No overhead wire would ever be seen in Manhattan.
And where do you get this bullshit?
POP in Manhattan?
Inspector: May I see your ticket?
Passenger: Huh?
Inspector: May I see your ticket?
Passenger: Who wants to see it?
Inspector: May I see your ticket?
Passenger: None of your business! %&% off!
Inspector: I have to see your ticket.
Passenger's friends: We recommend that you leave.
...
>have subway TVMs on the surface. Not to mention pay extra personnel >to scan Metrocards?
There's actually a proposal to pilot pre-boarding fare collection on a bus line. http://www.schallerconsult.com/pub/brt.htm
Even more of a reason to not spend significantly for fare control. At the same time it may be politically difficult to justify spending capital expense to provide free service.
Arti
When is "Free" a double fare Zone?
When the MTA runs it!
For most people it would be just a "free transfer"
But for others: They will have to pay a second fare to ride the third vehicle!
And yes, still some yet get a free ride. So What!
: ) Elias
As for collecting fares....maybe just have turnstiles on the vehicles?(not really an expert on this part)
As for collecting fares, as I said above, just make it free! It's not like we're talking the A train to Far Rock, the line is short and limited, the cars are presumably easy to fumigate of geese, and the combination of short station dwells and 100% enforcement of POP fares is likely impossible.
Would a light rail system have to use conduit cars like TARS, DC Transit and other no-overhead systems used? Or could the laws be ammended?
I don't think it applies so far Uptown.
«Or could the laws be ammended?»
Judging from numerous and serious proposals for LR in Mid-and Downtown Manhattan, I doubt that this is considered a problem.
Arti
The had conduit cars all the way up to 125th Street! I don't know how far south they went.
Elias
As far as fare control, maybe the system can be Metrocard enabled, in that all transfers from the subway and bus will be automatically free within 2 hours. All other people riding can maybe buy a new Light Rail Metrocard (or something) which is good for something like 2 hours, and will have the time bought printed on it. Maybe you can choose the timeframe in which it's good, so that you can purchase a ticket, for example, good from 9AM-11AM, and then another good from 5:30PM-7:30PM (for the return trip.) These cards can cost $2.00, and can be used as a transfer to the subway/bus lines for the 2 hours that it's valid.
Also, the time selection, while clever, is kinda restrictive. I know whenever I go to the city my plans change or things to more/less time than I expect. I don't want to be screwed over by a farecard that I purchased that can only be used during a certain time frame.
Arti
A Metrocard fare paid on a subway is good for a transfer to a bus, but not to another subway, right? So a fare paid on a West Side bus could be arranged so as to not be valid on an East Side bus.
So there ia a free connection with the 86th Street Tram, but you pay a second fare for your third vehicle.
Or you buy an Unlimited card, and then it would be a moot point anyway.
so.... MAKE IT FREE already!
Elias
86th street has room for exclusive ROW.
Arti
BTW, where is the old west side ROW, cuz the only one I know of is the existing one from Chelsea to Spuyten Duyvill that Amtrak uses north of 34th.
Examples:
1. You're a C/R on a northbound (2) train between Atlantic and Nevins. You look out the window towards the front of the train and notice that the train is going from the local (Clark Tube) track to the express (Joralemon Tube) track. There was no prior notice from the Command Center that your train would be going up the East Side. Program the announcements to reflect this: (2) to Wakefield via Lexington.
2. You're a C/R on a northbound (2) train at Bergen Street that just got word from Command that your train will terminate at Atlantic. Reprogram: (2) to Atlantic.
How easy would this be?
1. Getting incorrect announcements from a real, live C/R
or
2. Getting incorrect announcements from an automated system
Peace,
ANDEE
This past weekend, I was on a 4 local. The announcements were changed from incorrect (they were announcing stops as if we had begun at Utica) to correct in the time it took us to stop/start at Union Sq.
There was one northbound (2) train that got sent up the East Side, then another northbound (2) train that wound up laying up on M track at Nevins. Both trains had normal announcements playing (related thread), and there were a lot of PO'd people on the platform. The next train in was a (3) train, which called at the station for at least 5 minutes. There was one lady who, after a few minutes, shouted towards the C/R, "MOVE THE M***** ****ING TRAIN!"
Once that train got the line-up, it headed for the West Side. So did the following (2) train after waiting (literally) 50 feet behind that (3) train for all that time, and being stopped at Atlantic for almost 3 minutes.
I would suspect that it was a serious 12-9.
Peace,
ANDEE
I'll take mine crispy :)
Peace,
ANDEE
Thanks, your replies to that last question make sense.
And if it did happen to him the delay would have been longer because police would have to find the body and remove it.
There is no story in their website but for those who have a copy of today's Daily News (in the Boroughs section on page 4 for the KSI edition) that clearly illustrates the disparity among the media reporting the news.
I don't like the R-42's. Bland, ugly, in horrible shape, etc... 4 out of 10.
I like how you organized the site!
There is a MBTA commuter rail stop at Foxboro to serve game traffic only. I agree that the stadium owners should pay for the station and perhaps for the service, but I don't agree that those stations should not be built. Getting people to and from games is a big transportation problem, and in some circumstances will justify a purpose-built station provided that user-financing can be secured.
AEM7
BTW, trains provide service for where there is demand; if demand is sufficient, Metro North et al service could be achievable. The laws of supply and demand have no application here?
The laws of supply and demand absolutely apply. Unfortunately, in most matters related to public transit, the demand isn't large enough to bring down the cost and generate supply.
For most new projects (and in order to supply even existing transit), one must assume some level of "public good" -- i.e. making it easier to get to the city will keep jobs (and tax revenue) in the city.
That's a pretty big stretch for building a Yankee Stadium station, so lets guesstimate revenues and costs. We can use Shea as a guide. Probably no more than 500 fans use the LIRR Shea Stadium station for an average home game. Also figure that about half of them generate no additional revenue for the railroad (monthly or weekly ticket holders, children travelling with adults). Even if you assume the Yankees will have twice as much usage, here's a guesstimate of the revenue you'd get in a year:
1000 (fans) x 0.5 (percentage who actually generate revenue) x 2 (round trip) x $5 (average train ticket?) x 90 (81 home games plus 9 games as the Yanks romp through another world series) = $450,000 in additional revenue -- for the entire season!!!
Now figure the cost of building such a station. Can any public works project be done in NYC for less than $10 million? Probably not -- and this may run much more. So at best, the stadium pays for itself in 22 years, as long as it costs nothing to maintain!!!
Shea works out better because the station was built for the LIRR and the city pays to maintain it. Personally, I have no idea why the city continues to maintain this station.
CG
What? This is a factor? LOL
And "spirited?" What that mean? LOL
I'm waiting for you-know-who to respond to that!
By "spirited," I meant that while crowded and noisy, there's a friendly atmosphere on board. If I happen on a stadium bound train in a suit I feel like I'm missing something. (If I came aboard with a Red Sox cap, I'd worry...)
:)
For my twice yearly trips to Yankee Stadium, I use MN to 125th, hop on the uptown 4 train and voila! I'm at Yankee Stadium.
If Steinbrenner wants to underwrite a YS station, fine. But until then, funding would be much better used elsewhere on the MN; new trains, for instance.
Your pal,
Fred
If you care to check it out, there was an LIRR stop there long before Shea Stadium was there!
It served the 1930something World's Fair.
Elias
Dude...you really don't know the exact years that Fair was open? I'm surprised; it's timing coincides with the beginning of what Archie Bunker called The Big One.
Anyway the stadium stop would be a logistical nightmare. How do you check tickets in a Mobbed train in less than 8 miles ??? or how do you check tickets between Stadium and 125th street were 3/4 would bail off to go elsewere after game is over.
The ride to stadium would be a financial nightmare either in crew cost or in free rides. The system is not by pre checked tickets at GCT or at Stadium unless a dedicated train is used.
if you use a dedicated train it would need like two engineers (bouble ended) 1 Conductor and 7 trainman plus about 8 or so Police officers for fare evasion.
The subway has preboarding as far as tokens, and trains do have capacity to take stadium goers to games, and if train is full an other train is there in a few minutes.
LIRR uses such a system at Shea for big crowds.
IMO, though, the station at Yankee stadium still doesn't make sense for other reasons.
CG
Tokens? What's that? 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
And how is a Metro North station going to have them make money on beer sales?
Not to mention that beer sales end at the 7th inning. As it's been stated before, extra innings are the beer drinker's curse.
Anyway, while I generally agree that good public transit would help curb drunk driving (not necessarily solve it), that alone isn't justification for building a new station.
Your pal,
Fred
Ya know what? Screw `em. (Some) people...want to smoke reefer too. But nobody is going to provide any special accomodations for us. Uh, them. I understand one is legal, the other ain't. But public intoxication is public intoxication.
Personally, I'm against having any type of "attitude-adjusting" substances being included in the planning and execution of transit services. Drink or smoke or whatever, on your own time. But the primary assumption should be, all riders are (must be) of sound mind. Too many people can't handle the gaff.
Or ride to 125th and catch a 4 train back up to the station!
:-)
As for school, I get up at 6 every morning and walk to my bus stop. I rarely come home and stay home straight after school. Thursdays I am at school as late as 8. On other days, I am home for only a few hours, then it's a 1.5 mile hike to crew, where I help build stage sets for 2 hours, then walk home again if I can't get a ride. Oh yeah, and there are a few weeks(hell week) that I am at school from 7:30 am until midnight.
So don't tell me I have barely proven myself, b/c I think I've done far more than just proving myself.
When I say lazy ass, I mean that the majority of them will not walk a distance just to take the train. Yea, I know, there are plenty who walk to work or the train station or w/e. Still, they won't want to walk or ride a subway through a neighborhood that may or may not be questionable.
Rotterdam?
Your pal,
Fred
Also, Shea Stadium is another one that is very close to another station that is within walking distance from the stadium, Flushing Main St. Does that stop LIRR from serving it, hell naw.
I hate to put such a respected member of the boards down like this, but alot of the points you are bringing up really have no merit.
Metro north serves a Middle class populous. They do not want to walk a mile to the stadium in those; trust me, I know... That same pop. acts as life blook to the area which is still depressed. They are needed if there is any future there... Truth: Any major improvements to the area (a la Yankee Land and a New Stadiu there) will surely have a MN connection. I promise.
I guess I should expect such ignorant commentary from someone named "Dutchrailnut:" abysmal ignorance of my area.
If ever there was an award for an uncalled for and unfounded statement you just managed to win it. You're a N00b, so we'll hopefully go easy on you. However, I'm not sure if you realize that Mr. Dutchrailnut is a Metro North engineer, he knows well of that which he speaks. If you don't believe me, check the archives, you'll find him a font of information on not only Metro North, but also the other two commuter rail agencies in NYC as well as Amtrak's operations. You'll see that Subtalkers have ridden on trains he drove, and later gotten in circular arguments with him.
Next time you might want to think before you speak sir.
Now Jon, (or George maybe we should call you), you might want to lay off your condecending and ignorant attitude, it will do nobody any good. But I guess that's to be expected from Junkee fans.
BTW, who said I was a Yankee fan?
Have a nice day.
By the way, I've read several of Dutchrailnut's posts reguarding this subject, and really I don't know where he is getting his information from. My guess is he is either not a sports fan, or roots for the Red Sox. :-) -Nick
He leaves me bewildered too; but, I ain't mad at him.
Nice to see we share views.
Again, it's fine by me if the hometown team chips in for the cost of the station. Remember, NYC gets plenty of tax dollars from all the people who visit Yankee Stadium. -Nick
As to the details, it is the job of transit planners to find a way. Claiming "it can't be done" means the person needs to work somewhere else.
As to fare collection, I believe that major event ticketing should be surcharged with the extra fee directly paid to the (in this case MTA) and in return the ticket should be good for transit to/from the event.
I have never attempted it but it seems to me that NYCT can easily furnish a number of the ten plagues, as the subjects of the plagues are readily found in various parts of the subway. These include blood, lice, packs of wild animals (two-,four- and multi-legged), darkness and disease. I haven't encountered frogs, boils, hail, locusts or the death of the firstborn in the subway, but then again, I haven't ridden all of the lines.
Hail on the above-ground lines (weather permitting), boils on the skells, frogs on the tracks beyond Broad Channel, and the death of the firstborn on numerous tragic occasions over the years.
Locusts? Probably somewhere out there too.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
A driver backing out of a private driveway in the Texas Medical Center area grazed a train.
No one was hurt and the damage was minimal. "
----------------------------
I remember reversing during my driving test. This makes for a good mental picture, a car or most likely an SUV(after watching how htey reverse) is backing up, can't judge whatsoever, and WHAM-BAM into the train!
Mark
Within three weeks, the city and METRO have made sure every light at an intersection is red for 15 seconds before a train passes through, in turn decreasing the chance of another driver turning left into a train.
METRO president Shirley DeLibero says in most cities where the rail line runs on the street, it has cars running parallel to it. But because of more than 30 accidents, that plan had to be halted there
"We wanted to do that here too, but because we've had so many people that just don't read the signs, and take left turns, and we continued having these accidents, we said that's impossible,” said DeLibero. “So now we have the red light which will cause a four-way stop while the train goes through the intersection."
While the end result may mean a 15 second delay for drivers DeLibero says it also means saving lives.
The background is that the UK port city of Southampton sits on the eastern bank of the deepwater inlet of Southampton Water. On the opposite bank is the small town of Hythe, and the two are connected by a passenger ferry which runs every half hour and avoids what would otherwise be a round trip by road of 12 miles. Because the Hythe side of Southampton Water is shallow and tidal, the ferry actually terminates at Hythe Pierhead, about 700 yards offshore, and passengers continue their journey on the railway.
The passenger cars date back to the opening of the service 1922. The locomotives are even older, having been built as battery locomotives for use in a munitions factory in 1917 and converted to third rail in 1922.
More on this fascinating relic here.
Yes it is, the thin line running SW to NE across the photograph.
I can't make out the railway itself, however.
Nor can I; but if you look carefully you can see the stations at each end, which have roofs of a lighter color than the brown of the pier.
I am; that is an interesting link
And it does qualify as urban rail.
Well actually I would say Southend Pier Railway was more a tourist attraction/ride type of railway, as were most pier railways. Typically passengers ride/rode for the experience, or perhaps the experience of the pier. Often they are/were summer only operations; I'm not sure whether this applies to Southend or not.
What distinguishes the Hythe Pier Railway is that no-one (apart from a few railfans like me and perhaps a few shipfans too) rides it for the experience. They ride it because it is the easiest and quickest way to get to their jobs in the city; or to go shopping or visit friends or whatever. It is a genuine part of the local public transit infrastructure and as a consequence operates 365 days a year.
Note: I hope I didn't make fun of your handle; I wasn't trying to.
But seriously, thank you for reporting. That's good news. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Those tourists could have used the regular maps just as well.
59 St - (4)(5)(N)(R)
51 St - (E)(F)
etc....
Someone had offered cards 1, 2, & 3 on ebay but that auction disappeared as quickly as it appeared. They were being touted as unused so I think we can assume they were not obtained in the most legitimate manner. I haven't seen card #2 in circulation yet. I hope that auction I mentioned didn't cause the MTA to delay release while they investigate the situation.
I haven't heard anything about any more of the centennial cards being for sale yet.
Also, my 30-card that I just started seems to be super glossy and very "plasticy" (it is a "Why run for the train"). Is this a new card stock or have they always had these?
Robert
Probably couln't get any "real" advertisers. I think metrocard advertisings effectivness is questionable at best and potential advertisers are staying away.
Peace,
ANDEE
Robert
I just don't feel that many riders look at their MCs, much less know what ad is on their card. I mean, I cannot even tell you what ad is on the card I have right now, nor do I care. I think the TA just does it for the collector market. If I were an advertiser I wouldn't waste my money.
Peace,
ANDEE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4091&item=2238286891&rd=1
There are 10 sets available. (I hope the MTA jumps on them for selling unissued cards).
No that is not true. It depends on the program where they get sold, e.g.
The recent Macy's card was being sold at 14th Street from a Booth.
Can someone else?
"The underground station largest of the world: The RER Châtelet them Markets (315 × 82 m): 7 ways including 2 exploited since seven. 1987 with lines the SNCF of Orry-the-City and Villiers-the-Beautiful (line D of the RER)."
"Travellers (in million, 1998), 367 (of which Châtelet them Markets 38,5; Park North 36,8; Auber 33,2: Park of Lyon 26,3; Defense 23,2; Charles-of-Gaulle-star 21,3; Nation 17,2; Denfert-Rochereau 13,9: St-Michel-Our-lady 13,3."
But if you prefer the original French: "Gare souterraine la plus grande du monde : RER Châtelet-les Halles (315 × 82 m) : 7 voies dont 2 exploitées depuis sept. 1987 avec les lignes SNCF d'Orry-la-Ville et Villiers-le-Bel (ligne D du RER)."
"Voyageurs (en millions, en 1998), 367 (dont Châtelet-les Halles 38,5 ; Gare du Nord 36,8 ; Auber 33,2 : Gare de Lyon 26,3 ; La Défense 23,2 ; Charles-de-Gaulle-Étoile 21,3 ; Nation 17,2 ; Denfert-Rochereau 13,9 : St-Michel-Notre-Dame 13,3."
Et malheureusement, ça se voit... :(
Comment dit-on "Et malheureusement, ça se voit... :(" en anglais? Je ne te comprends pas. By the way, my French sucks. Really, what I am asking, what are ou referring to?
On the serious side, "station" is feminine and "français" as the language is always masculine. Correct French for your post would have been:
"Je ne sais pas. Cependant, "Times Square" est la station la plus chargée dans le métro de New York. À l'école, dans ma classe de français, je n'apprends rien!"
Keep on studying. And by the way, after 15+ years in NYC, my French grammar pretty much suck these days. I used to be a translator/interpreter for French/English<->Japanese before coming here. Although I don't have problems communicating in French, English is easier for me now.
Looks like the Yahoo parsing algorithm assumes a context-free grammar. They just translate one word at a time!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
O beautiful for crowded 'burbs,
For appartements concrets,
For Z-stock needing a refurb:
What a damn slow train!
Villiers! Villiers!
God shed his grace on me
And give me a train out of here
To get to gay Pareeee!
Alta Vista Babel Fish translates "gare" into "park" but "la gare" into "the station". "Stationnez" also translates to "station".
Which of course should have been translated to "park".
It's still better than what you get when you try to translate from Japanese to English on any system.
I was thinking of trying that, Wado, and I'll know just who to ask if there should be any difficulties!
Some dates. 1964 -1-8 line of Seals: southern section (Massy-Palaiseau-St-Rémy-lès-Chevreuse). 1969 -14-12 Nation-Boissy-St-Leger (electrification old line the SNCF of Vincennes). 1970 -21-2 Charles-of-Gaulle-Star with Defense. 1971 -23-11 in Auber. 1972 the -1-10 Defense-St-Germain-in-Bush hammer after reelectrification uninterrupted 1 500 volts. 1977 -9-12 junctions Auber-Nation (line A) and Châtelet them Market-Luxembourg (line B), left the branch of Marne-the-Valley (line a: Fontenay-Noisy-the-Large-mount of Is). 1979 -30-9 Station of Orsay-Invalids, line C of the RER exploited by the SNCF. 1980 -19-12 totality of the branch of Marne-the-Valley (line a: Noisy-Torcy). 1981 -10-12 prolongation line B Châtelet-Station of North and startup of the underground station of suburbs. 1983 -7-6 partial interconnection line B, traversed by trains the SNCF and trains the RATP. 1987 interconnection Northern suburbs (Orry-la-Ville/Châtelet them Markets). 1988 interconnection line of Cergy (St-Christophe) and line A of the RER with Nanterre-Prefecture, correspondence lines B and C with St-Michel. 1Restage connection valley of Montmorency-Invalids (connects north-western line C of the RER). 1989 final service road on north-western branch line C of the RER (Montigny-Beauchamp). 1990 continuation interconnection line D of the RER; departure and reception with Châtelet them Markets of the trains of Goussainville and Orry-the-City. 1991 station of correspondence line C of the RER with line 13 of the subway. 1992 Chessy Eurodisneyland (Marne-the-Valley) by line A of the RER. 1994 -9-7 prolongation line A of the RER of Cergy St Christophe in Cergy Top. -21-7 prolongation line B of the RER to the station of Airport-Roissy-Charles of Gaulle 2-TGV.
Agents. In 1997: 2 926.
Cost. Work: line a: 5 billion F (1979). Prolongation 11 km (on Marne-the-Valley): 0,939 (1992).
Schedules. Departure of the 1er train: 5 H: arrival of the last train: line a: 1. 20; line b: 1. 15.
Lines. Name the RER covers 4 lines. 2 inter-connected lines SNCF-RATP: line a: 74,5 km (including 50,6 into air), 34 stations (including 27 air): St-Germain-in-Bush hammer - Châtelet Them Markets - Boissy-St-Léger/Torcy-Marne-the-Vallée/Cergy-St-Christophe-Poissy; line b: 79,6 km, 57 stations: Mitry/Roissy-station of North-Châtelet them Markets - St-Remy-lès-Chevreuse/Robinson. 2 lines the SNCF: line C: 183 km, 80 stations (traffic: 400 000 travellers per day): St-Martin-in Étampes/Dourdan/Massy-Palaiseau-Paris-Versailles rivets gauche/St-Quentin-in-Yvelines and Montigny Beauchamp/Argenteuil at Field-of-March; line D: 134 km, 44 stations, 500 000 voyageurs/jour): Orry-the-city - Châtelet them Market-Station of Lyon-Melun/La Ferté-Alais. Length of the exploited lines (in km, to the 31-12): 1976: 74,86; 77: 92; 79: 92,20; 80: 230; 81: 270,8; 82: 274; at the end of 89: 358 (THE 252 SNCF, THE 106 RATP); 96: RER-RATP: 115,1; The SNCF: 436.
Travelling material. Circulation on the left, maximum declivity line A 36 mm/m, line B 40,8, minimal ray 146, line B 220, catenary food 1 500 volts. Total park: 1 015 (including 591 motor coaches, 424 trailers) of which ms 61 (startup 1967-80) 377 including 251 motor coaches of 23,8 m and 126 mixed trailers of 23,5 m; MID 79 (1980-85) 276 (including 138 motor coaches and 138 trailers of 26 m); MID 84 (1985-89) 292 (including 146 motor coaches and 146 trailers of 26 m). Capacity by element: Ms 61: 629 travellers (4 with the m2) or 846 (6 with the m2). MID 79 and MID 84: 1107. New oar: SEMI 2N: 70 (56 motor coaches, 14 trailers) on line A, 2 levels: 2 580 voyageurs/rame.
Material interconnection (SEMI 79/Z 8100): can receive a double food (1,5 Kv continuous for lines the RATP and the SNCF, and 25 Kv alternate for lines the SNCF of the Northern suburbs with automatic commutation of the supply voltage); to serve stations with quays various heights (the RATP: 1,10 m with 1 m; suburbs, stations underground: 1 m. 0,80 m and 0,55 m). Use the maximum capacity permitted by the length of quays the RATP (225 m) and the SNCF (315 m): exploitation with only one agent on board; flexible composition, high performances of acceleration and deceleration, maximum speed 140 km/h, aptitude to climb slopes of 40,8 O/oo.
Points of stops. Numbers: 66 (Paris 12, suburbs 54), nominal stations 65 (including 9 in correspondence with the subway and 9 with the SNCF). Standard length: 225 m, allowing to accomodate the material interconnection (1 element of 4 cars: 104 m, or 2 elements of 8 cars: 208 m). The underground station largest of the world: The RER Châtelet them Markets (315 × 82 m): 7 ways including 2 exploited since seven. 1987 with lines the SNCF of Orry-the-City and Villiers-the-Beautiful (line D of the RER).
Traffic Numbers trains in service at the rush hours: line a: 63, b: 52. A number starting per day: line a: 288, b: 262; per hour (a maximum number): A: 30, b: 20. Voyageurs/km: 3,7 billion (range 10,2 km). On line a: 900 000 travellers per day.
Speed (in km/h) maximum authorized and between brackets, average: line a: 120 (49,4); line b: 100 (39,4).
Travellers (in million, 1998), 367 (of which Châtelet them Markets 38,5; Park North 36,8; Auber 33,2: Park of Lyon 26,3; Defense 23,2; Charles-of-Gaulle-star 21,3; Nation 17,2; Denfert-Rochereau 13,9: St-Michel-Our-lady 13,3.
Translated on Babelfish.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Actually there's a lot of interesting data about the RER on that site if one can figure out what it really means.
The RER network has 3.7 billion passenger-km a year, 367 million daily riders, average journey 10.2 km.
Daily ridership: 900,000 per day on line A, 400,000 on line C, 500,000 on line D.
Busiest stations: Chatelet-les-Halles (38.5 million annual riders), Gare du Nord (36.8 million) and Auber (33.2 million).
Line A operates 30 trains per hour (peak), and cost 5 billion francs at 1979 prices, before an 11 km extension.
It's ironic that in the days of the el, the Upper West Side had just the one line over 9th/Columbus Avenue, while the East Side had the two lines over 2nd and 3rd and now the West Side has two lines on CPW and Broadway and the East Side has just the one line on Lex.
Not exactly. The 3rd Avenue was built in 1877 - 78 by the New York Elevated Railroad. The Gilbert, later Metropolitan, Elevated Company, built a line on 6th Avenue and beginning on Feb 24, 1879, a line on 2nd Avenue (public service began on March 1, 1880). The 1879 the two companies merged to form the Manhattan Railway.
The elevated system was leased for 999 years to the IRT in 1903.
Boy, were they off!
Off is a big understatement. It didn't even make it to 99 years.
These were all competing routes. They went where the traffic
was, subject to the whims of the city government (one of the reasons
why the lucrative Broadway route was never permitted as an el)
When the NYC cut back to 42nd Street, the trackage in a cut in the middle of 4th was filled in and so that part of 4th became Park and that cut became the Park Avenue underpass. The former street trackage including the tunnel was sold (or leased?) to streetcar interests and it seems that its legacy survives to this day as the M1 bus. The M1 until sometime between 1976 and 1990 ended at City Hall Park rather than South Ferry, so it makes sense that the 3rd Avenue el, as the replacement to the street trackage would end there too. Was South Street another branch? In 1931, the 4th/Madison car ended at "Post Office," which means the base of Park Row.* This route could not have been the original if the original in fact ended at Prince Street, since Lafayette between Spring and Great Jones did not appear until around 1890 (as New Elm Street).
This all puts forth yet ANOTHER question: The 4th/Madison car was operated by the Second Avenue Railway. Why then did it become a NYCO route rather than an East Side Omnibus route like all the other SAR routes? I guess that might be better suited for BusTalk.
*The city's main post office until 1910 and then the local downtown post office until 90 Church Street was opened in the 1930s was at the base of City Hall Park. The northern boundary was equivalent to the current location of the 2 and 3 trains under the park, formerly the site of the appropriately named Mail Street.
Strike that question. I misread the source for my info on the 4th/Madison route. The 4th/Madison route was operated by the New York and Harlem Traction Company, which makes plenty of sense.
What is the source for this? I've never heard that the New York
Elevated RR was in any way connected with the New York & Harlem.
The horse cars which operated out the south portal of the old
Grand Central Depot were NHRR, as they continued to exercise
their trackage rights down to the old terminal, which was at
27 St, not 23.
Re the NHRR and the 2 Ave el. The New Haven owned several Forney
locomotives and a fleet of smaller cars which they operated on
a local commuter service. It seems that for a period of time,
the NHRR did operate across the Harlem river and had a pocket
at 129 St station to terminate (similar to how the Putnam
division of the NYC crossed the swing bridge and terminated at
Polo Grounds on the 9th Ave el prior to 1916).
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
P.S.: Thank you very much for donating your R32/A artists' conception. It looks superb. It reminds me of the image on the right side of the front cover of Gene Sansone's Evolution of New York City Subways of the R142/A. Great pic of the R32/A artists' conception! :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Phil Hom
John
Could be. I have seen wheel with razed numbers in the dates on them that would indicate that they were sand castings. But then the forging die could have had a date on it.
John
Hmm. Give me a little time. I've got another question to ask...
Trucks do get bashed up, especially when they're under a pile up, but they also don't often take the full impact of a derailment like a carbody. The carbody will take the brunt of the impact in a collision, for example, while the truck may just shear off, head for the nearest ditch and avoid most of the impact. Another thing to consider is that just because a truck 'looks' ok, it doesn't mean it is. Trucks take a lot of punishment, a lot of fatigue. Even small cracks are often enough to pull a truck out of service.
My dad sent me the following email today:
"I was driving up the [Susquehanna] river yesterday and saw a truck go by with a PCC on a flat bed. It looked like it was in Philadelphia colors. I've seen Washington Metro cars on flat beds in the same area. Any ideas?"
Anybody know where the car may have been heading?
Keystone Pete
In more recent news, I drove to work that way two weeks ago and the crew, whoever they were from, did a shitty job paving over the tracks. The asphalt is already starting to come off the paving stones in the middle of the street. Unfortunately SEPTA owns the line, so the City of Philadelphia cannot exert pressure on them like it can with the 59 and 66 trolleybus routes. However, if SEPTA ever gets serious about the 56, even if it doesn't involve running trolleys immediately, they need to seriourly consider rebuilding the track like the 34 on Baltimore and the 36 on Elmwood have been rebuilt. Tear out the girder rail and put in the rubber coated normal track set in concrete. The ride is superior to Girder track, it can cope with varying temperatures more easily, and it's quieter than girder rail, since the concrete inside the rails is considerably smoother than the paving stones currently there.
Of course if SEPTA were ever to get serious about returning service to the 23 and 56 in addition to the 15 we'd need new LRVs. Remanufacturing is no longer an option, there's probably less than 10 semi-usable bodies left in Philadelphia, and we'd need at the very least 50 LRVs for limited service on the 23 and 56, 100 would be a good measure.
If SEPTA has to go shopping for new LRVs, it'd only make sense at this point to go looking for an exsisting design, since at this juncture there are plenty of good designs. I like the Skoda-Inekon Astra 10T, to me it's perfect for SEPTA's lighter trolley-type network. At 66 feet long it'd fit well on the city streets, it'll seat some 60 people and probably hold another 50-60 standees, and it's low floor. A purchase of 100 Skodas would allow the PCC IIs to be moved to the Subway Surface lines to supplement the beleagured K-cars.
Of course, all this will happen when pigs fly out my ass.
I think friday I'll go home via Rhawn again, so I'll stop by and check the paving on the 56 tracks.
I believe the cars not selected for rebuilding are all stored at Midvale Yard.
Up until several years ago, you could drive around southern Ontario and find quite a few defunct TTC PCCs in farm fields, by the side of the road etc. that had been similarly trucked out of their original city.
-Robert King
David
Robert
I could see the wisdom in some being singles, but wouldn't they need to be A's?
Actually, it would be sandwiched in between two other B cars, like this:
7211-7212-7777-7213-7214-7215
Car #7777 would be a R142S B car sandwiched between R142A B cars 7212 and 7213.
And passengers would be unable to move out of the car.
Mark
Why do you think trains on the 7 are never made up of two five-car sets and one single? Unless the transverse cabs are folded up, the single would be isolated.
That is correct. But in an emergency the end doors can be remotely unlocked by a crew member. That is not the case on the R-142's. Adding a cab car (or even one with two cabs as someone suggested) where a crew member is not posted to unlock the end doors manually during an emergency introduces an unsafe condition where one did not exist before.
You stick an extra friggin B car into one of the 5 car sets. Done.l
Salaam would probably say "reef them" !
Bill "Newkirk"
Brand new $400million(price changes from article to article) elevated, one way, tolled, reversable, only open during rush hours 5 days a week bridge sinks into a sinkhole, in a huge sinkhole area causing chaos. This area to the east has maybe one or two bus routes, and 2 express buses that only do 2 trips a day(for WAY too much money). It's car centric, with horrible Orlando like sprawl.
Between the pilars is supposed to be land reserved for future transporation(meaning rail in 30 years). Plus minutes before the collapse they approved a $130million dollar bond to extend it.
*It reports 52,700 cars use the road per day, and with over 10% growth in the area per year, don't you think there's enough people who would use alternative methods of travel?*
Tampa Tribune or look at any media outlet.
I have to reverse commute this bad boy now, so hopefully, i'll get a good picture.
And in the name sharing, they don't put these online.
^^^ YOu can see that envelope for "rail" i was talking about.
Those poor folks:
Diagram:
...proven itself unable to vote with any degree of reliability...
...shown itself unable to construct a meaningful rapid transit system in either of it's two largest cities...
...is unable to get the balls up to build a new rail line. Something even NJ is able to do (perhaps I should say 'practically ONLY NJ is able to do', after all it is the PANJNY!)...
...and now you're unable to even put in a simple viaduct???
I think it's about time for you all to be exiled from the US, we don't need your idiocy holding the rest of us back. The vast dumbing down coming from DC is bad enough, you guys don't need to help him. WTF were you doing hiring a canuck engineering firm to work in Florida??? Canada is all nicely exposed granite bedrock, nothing like Florida's porus limestone and sand, they probably shat themselves the first time they took a core sample!
:-)
Thats funny. In the paper it mentioned they build the Mall of America and Staples Arena.
shown itself unable to construct a meaningful rapid transit system in either of it's two largest cities...
Largest Being Miami and......I'm assuming the bay area. miami's got 100+ miles of rail being built, plus it's existing system, and doubling the bus fleet. Then there's the East-West coridor in Broward, and the MacArthur Causeway studies being done.
Not to mention the 2billion dollars intermodal center which is supposed to be nicer than grand central.
And Tampa bay? Refuses to acknowledge it's the bay area. The newspapers are putting that down now. If I drive 10 miles to the next city all i get is, "wow you drove far". Tampa and St. Pete might as well be Orlando and Atlanta.
Anyway, Tampa has the best streetcar on earth, and Representative Jim Sebasta is still doing his 20 year's of studies to find out if rail will pay for itself.
I personally think it's BS since you can make a feasibility study say anything, but if it works it works.
...proven itself unable to vote with any degree of reliability...
You still don't get there's 63 counties in florida, and only one which has ZERO floridians is the one you're talking about? Those old people from new york and chicago were confused because up there, you're vote doesn't count, it's all in how many illegals and dead people vote.
I think it's about time for you all to be exiled from the US,
Blame lincoln. No one begged for union soldiers to go up and down the Big Manatee River raping everyone in sight. :)
And the best little streetcar line in the world is looking real good for expansion in the next year or two(speed it up already!)
Well, the largest city (population-wise) in Florida is actually Jacksonville, followed by either Tampa or Miami. As far as metropolitian areas, Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-West Palm Beach is probably the largest.
>You still don't get there's 63 counties in florida
67, actually :)
Florida ... our motto, "God's waiting room." :)
Ack! The article I was talking about in the last response was actually talking about that, and how it's on the way out!! ACK!
A more fitting slogan would be, "Old people, yankee's, and Rednecks. An intriging experiment of three groups that don't like each other."
If you want something funny, ask a person from Mississippi what they think of Alabama, and ask a person from Alabama what they think of Mississippi. Talk about put-downs.
Anyhow, Miami-Dade is really a whole different country. When Castro's gone those counties will probably break off and merge...and it'll only be open to people with New York State issued ID's too.
Or ask someone from Georgia what they think of either of them. I have family outside Atlanta -- whenever I'm down there, it seems like another report comes out listing Georgia as ranking 48th among the states in some education category or another. To which my family shouts in unison -- "Thank goodness for Mississippi and Alabama!!"
CG
Once Castro is gone, half of Miami will return to Cuba :)
I just realized that your personal theme song is "I've been everywhere, man"
New York, Maryland, Florida. Where else?
-Robert King
(Of course, in this regard, MS leaders don't seem too different from Philly pols. They're both big fish in little ponds, and they fear that if the pond got big, bigger fish will comein and it them.)
This is a big part of why things happen in the rest of the South but not Mississippi. Mississippi's trees go to Alabama to be milled into paper, and AL gets the jobs. I always thought it was no coincidence that two major cities, Memphis and New Orleans, grew up right outside Mississippi's borders, but none within the state it self.
That said, Mississippi isn't that bad a place to be. I liked Jackson best of all the places I lived there. It's pretty much like a small city anywhere, and it has decent cultural and intellectual life for a place it's size.
Mark
Mark
At least the Waffle House folks didn't mind. Of all the states down there though, I've found North Carolina to be the most tolerant and friendly, hands down. When folks from down south come to visit up here, we don't behave like that to guests from out of town. But I never got over the outright hostility that wasn't deserved. :(
Mark
I had a neighbor from mississippi, went to Ole Miss(Colonel Rebel!) before, like myself, transferring to my new school(even though they kicked me out! Apparently you graduate after a certain # of credits).
Anyway, she would talk about how ugly and dirty alabama is, and went into a rant on how much nicer Miss. is.
Besides, doesn't Mississippi still hold the title for most miss americas? even though UCF is now!!
I also hear Birmingham is beautiful too. I believe it, just need to see it. Though I met a girl once from NW alabama, asked her what it's like, she said, "you ever see the andy griffith show?". Heck, that sounds fine by me, no more traffic!
*Mississippi's state constitution, dating from the 1890s*
Florida's is real recent, was rewritten in the last 30 years I believe, maybe less....and believe me, it's time for a 4th(or is it 5th?) rewrite.
Plus, Birmingham is a HUGE banking center, all my annoying mail was postmarked there.
Jeff
As far as street life, downtown Birmingham isn't that exciting. It looks like a lot of downtowns where people work, but don't live. Score one for sprawl. But south of downtown is a neighborhood called Five Points, which is where the University of Alabama at Birmingham is. That makes it much livelier, much more like a downtown than the downtown proper is. There are restraunts and stores on the street, and yes, actual residences. Five Points is also where the mountain ridge starts to get steep, so the topography kind of reminds me of San Francisco.
Birmingham could be more exciting with a little urban planning. Since most of the city falls along a straight line below the mountain side, even one single light rail line running the lenght of the city would be very useful. The expressways in B'ham are already a nightmare at rush hour, and rush hour starts at 3 PM.
If that light rail line were combined with good urban planning that involved downtown residences, stores, and restaurants, we might be looking at a real city. What with a growing university to bring young hipsters in, and the good outdoor activities north and east of the city, Birmingham could make itself the Portland of the south if they wanted to.
Mark
Mark
But now I want to check it out.
I just noticed today they're changing the graphic to something generic. The logo for the highway used to be the famous pirate, Jose Gaspar.
They should've extended the highway to the gandy bridge before wasting money on this double decking junk.
I guess they just admire the way they drive!!! Oh wait, that was ohio holding me up 2 times today!
Anyway, I didn't finish and get a sunny day, but i got some pictures of that one.
In case you didn't get enough of it!
I need to walk to the other side, and get the builders plaque off the old bridge.
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=4&id=294992
Arti
That's an interesting newspaper too, is it because it's the english version, or do they always make every news-story 2 sentences at the most?
I'd rather say different.
«I wonder how they could get that to work here. i get the feeling every celluar provider would want a monopoly»
In Europe it works using SMS technology. This service doesn't have to be provided by cellular carriers, but 3rd party, like NYCE for example.
Arti
http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=00017
there are other things but i thought i'd share.
paul
On the film title frame.
--Mark
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
One question, who is this?(on the left)
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Nice gallery. Believe it or not, I am relatively new to railfanning and I have never rode a subway in the Bronx (except MetroNorth New Haven). Your pics just make me want to go more. I really have to go there soon. Thanks.
-Chris
>>Click Here<<
-Chris
I once tried freewebs.com before you told me, but I lost my motivation. However, I will try to work up the motivation to get back to freewebs.com. My poem for today will be on freewebs.com.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Hope that helps and good luck with your site.
-Chris
---------------------------------------------------------
There has been a hazardous waste spill near Sullivan Square. The attached release from the MBTA has alternative routing for Orange Line and Haverhill, Rockport and Newburyport Commuter Rail passengers. (Lowell and Fitchburg lines are not affected)
Please note that many commuters are being diverted to Lechmere Station instead of North Station.
Passengers will board buses at Lechemre to destinations beyond Sullivan Square, where they will be able to rejoin the Orange line and commuter rail.
For Immediate Release: Please Contact: Joe Pesaturo @ Wednesday, April 14, 2004 (617)222-5697
Alternative Service Plan in Response to Hazardous Material Incident In Charlestown Plan effective 2:30 PM
Orange Line Service to Oak Grove, Malden Station & Wellington
Customers should go take the Green Line to Lechmere and transfer to a shuttle Bus to Wellington Station.
Orange Line Service to Community College
Customers should go to Haymarket Station (Orange/Green Line) and transfer to the Route 92 and Route 93 buses. Please note that the area surrounding Sullivan Square is closed.
Commuter Rail Haverhill/Reading Line
Customers should take the Green Line to Lechmere and transfer to a shuttle Bus to Wellington Station. Take the Orange Line to Malden Center where customers can transfer to the Haverhill/Reading Line.
Commuter Rail Rockport/Newburyport Line
Customers should take the Blue Line to Wonderland Station and transfer to a Shuttle Bus to the Lynn Commuter Rail Station where they can transfer to Alternate/Shuttle Commuter Rail service.
Bus Service Out of Sullivan Square
Affected Routes CT2, 86, 89, 90, 91, 95, 101, 104, 105, 109
Customers should go to Haymarket Station (Orange/Green Line) and transfer to the Route 92 and Route 93 buses. These buses will provide a connection to all buses normally run out of Sullivan Square Station.
The Commuter Rail Fitchburg and Lowell Lines are unaffected by this incident.
Note: This plan will be changed in the event public safety personnel allow regular MBTA service to resume. Any updates in the Plan will be updated on www.mbta.com, 617-222-3200 and announced over station and train public announcement systems.
They also say "MTA" sometimes, in multiple colors...
-Chris
See The JoeKorner. In an ideal world, maybe that sign should read EGTVJMZ :)
From Manhattan: 2 tracks from the SAS, 2 tracks from Houston St, 2 tracks from WTC station.
From Brooklyn: 2 tracks from Central Av (Queens) line, 2 short-turn tracks, and 2 tracks to the end of the line (Avenue S/T/U I think).
Are you sure about WTC? I know Houston is definite (from 2nd Ave station), but I also thought there was supposed to be a "Worth St Line". AFIK, WTC was always supposed to be a terminal (in original design), much like Court Street on the Fulton.
See map, about halfway down the page. The Worth St line would have come off the local tracks north of Hudson Terminal.
Not necessarily. I'm not one for drawing up fantasy service plans on the fly, but I'd assume something would terminate at WTC, even if rush hours only, for the easy connection to PATH. I'd guess there would either be two 8 Ave expresses, one going local in Brooklyn, so one local could go to WTC and the other to Worth St, or a 6 Ave line would switch over south of West 4.
The letters are conjecture based on today's lines: E, 8 Ave local via Worth St; V, 6 Ave local via East Broadway; T, Second Avenue. I doubt the second system ever reached a point where complete service patterns were developed.
Stations that are like South 4th may have been are Jay Street-Borough Hall, Eastern Parkway-Brooklyn Museum (planned as Institute Park) and Park Place.
Also, is the S. 4th St. shell directly below street level (which I doubt) or is there yet another mezzanine above it? I take it that that entire complex is similar to W. 4th St. in that there is a mezzanine sandwiched in between the two track levels.
I don't know how deep is the South 4th Street station shell. But the shell is over the G station Mezzazine. and the G line platform is below the G line mezzazine.
The mezzazine is now used as rooms for different departments at TA. Unfortunately I couldn't find out how much was actually built. If the Second System station over the A line at Utica is any indication, I'd say the roadbed and the walls and platforms are built. But no tile or lights installed. and not nuch of a tunnel after the ends of the station.
The "stair" goes down to a mezzanine shell that is between the station shell and the G. The photos were taken about six months ago and were contributed by a contractor.
As to that really wide stairway - I saw the underneath of that stairway just South of and at the same level as the S4 platforms. In other words, it seems as if S4 and the G mezzanine are on the same level.
I wonder if there was supposed to be some kind of head house for fare control or something. Several blocks North of Broadway in this area are either vacant or represent relatively recent (30 yrs or newer) construction. Perhaps full realization of the Second System at S4 would have required surface facilities? Maybe part of the station/mezzanine is the basement of the precinct house?
-Chris
"Extinguisher has been moved to token booth"
FIRE is HERE!!
Phil Hom
-Chris
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I've been looking for the R142 side display font for a long time. With it, not only could I finish the R200 3D render project, I could also edit images of the side signs...
If anyone knows where I can download it, please tell me.
-Julian
How do you get onto the NS line anyways?
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/cpc/010660.pdf
Note the above document is fairly specific as to where the SIR exetension of the Travis branch is to go, specfically 3 parcels (lot numbers included in the document) from Con Ed, Visy Paper, and Arthur Kill Power, and also will cross a somewhat re-routed Victory Blvd (which will become a access road for Con Ed and Visy West of the new grade crossing). The document is quite clear that the Waste Transfer station is to be constructed (actually it seems to indicate construction is on-going as of Nov 2003) south of Victory Blvd, near the FK Landfill.
If there is another transfer station near the Bayonne Bridge then great (the more rail-using facilities the better in my opinion), but I think as of now any trackwork in that area (near Arlington) is for Howland Hook.
Finally, I think only AK bridge and it's approach tracks were rehabbed in the late '90s - the Travis branch rehab was discussed to dead at the time, but I think it only got started for real last year.
M&E I am certain is existant. They are a shortline over in NJ, ya know, the ones with that whole NIMBY fit about re-starting service on an unused line.
RVRR though, I'm not sure of, just seen the name tossed around here and there.
Hey, where ya been? I aint seen ya postin on railroad.net or here for quite some time now. Hope all's ok.
is my favorite car today.
They're colorful and
shiny,
beautiful and
not grimy. ;-)
They've got innovation,
that's for sure.
They have accommodation,
hope there's more.
Glory, that is.
They're in the biz.
Why take 'em out?
They're up and about.
The lighting,
the brightening,
the color,
the wonder,
the speed,
the deed.
The floors.
The doors (reference to the new double-door storm doors).
The ceiling.
The feeling.
R142As rule.
They are my favorite cars in the pool.
Praise the R142As!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This poem was arranged and typed by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn, whose favorite subway car is the R142A.
I hope you like it (with all due respects to the diehard R62/A fans like SciGuy1904, ( 1 ) South Ferry ( 9 ), and others). :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
: ) Elias
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowodlawn)
til next time
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
Regards,
Jimmy
Look for the guy with 2 cameras, I'll be double-barrelling on this trip.
GET is 1 thing.
USE is another.
BTW, it's gonna be sunny and 70 degrees!
One train had the sets 6641-5 & 665?-?. Don't know the others.
Anyone else hear this? Am I going nuts?
Peace,
ANDEE
Robert
I take it someone's a little bitter because of a recent problem?
I made a reference to the R143 because it was a Kawasaki also.
And yes, the other train models get dirty too.
-RJM
Note when I say hose I mean Fire hose.
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Note when I say hose I mean Fire hose.
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
The dirt probably adds a 1/4 of a ton of weight to the cars. If they washed the cars, they would be lighter and this would cause less wear and tear on switches and tracks. It's a no brainer, and would save money.
OTOH, maybe vandals robbed the rails inside the car wash. No rails, no wash !
BMTman told me of these two theories.
Bill "Newkirk"
:>
Think creatively.
I've subscribed to usenet groups and have gotten together with folks in person and you'd be surprised how nice people can be once you take away their keyboards. hehe
Your pal,
Fred
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Perhaps you'll find some redeeming qualities in the "deceased."
Peace,
ANDEE
--Mark
We would need do work in some railfanning before or after, but I realy like the concept.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Jimmy
Ya Mon,
Jimmy
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Ah, you remember those ads! I have an authentic subway one in my basement....
That's saying alot! I'd sooner flush Meister Braü down the toilet, it's on the same level as that other liquid that goes down the toilet!
This originally appeared in the Erie Lackawanna e mail list a few months ago
Bad day at Syracuse enginehouse
It was the practice of the ERIE-LACKAWANNA as it had been their
predecessor, the DL&W, to run two freight trains every night to Binghamton
and back. The earlier of these 2 trains was designated SB 24 and was usually
on duty early in the evening, say 7:30 PM or so. This job usually required 2
GP7s or GP9s since it was a fairly light train. The other, SB 50 was somewhat heavier & did more work & therefore ran with 3 engines & took a little longer to get over the road. As you can see, this required the roundhouse people to assemble the power for these trains prior to the crew coming on duty which meant gathering up the several GPs which had been on the locals & industrial jobs and checking them for faults & supplies so they'd be ready to go. The night roundhouse foreman at the former DL&W roundhouse was an older man, William (Bill) Laumeister who was very knowledgeable and like most of the former DL&W men all business. The night mechanic was a man in his early 20s,
Mike O'Brein, who had a few years ago gotten out of the Air Force and hired
out on the EL. I had been in the Air Force too before joining the railroad
and he and I used to sit outside the roundhouse office and talk about the
USAF. When you sit outside the roundhouse office, you are looking at the
inbound and outbound tracks, the sand track and #5 & 6 as well as facing the
turntable.
I'd better ste the location of the DL&W roundhouse in Syracuse - it's
in a depression about 15 or so feet below the level of the yard tracks and
the New York Central branch line to Auburn which crosses the inbound and
outbound EL tracks from the roundhouse and passes in the rear of the
enginehouse on its way between the NYC uptown yard and the line to Auburn.
Imagine an X crossover with one leg the NYC & the other the EL tracks to &
from the roundhouse. In order to get from the higher level to the
roundhouse, the inbound & outbound crossed the NYC & then crossed the city
street (Geddes St I think) on 2 side-by-side girder bridges sloping gently
downward. There was a tower (Magnolia St. Tower) at the NYC crossing and
although no longer occupied, the crossovers were protected by a signal which
was always red & u had to get permission to crossover when coming out with
power.
On the night in question, O'Brien and I were sitting outside - it
being a warm night in May - and gazing at the engines (3 on one track and 2
on the other) that had been fueled and were ready for the 2 turn jobs to
Binghamton. It was about 8PM or so and Mr. Laumeister had gone to the nearby
Dunkin Donut shop for coffee. O'B (as he was called) told me that the early
crew (SB24) would have to take the 3 nearest engines up the hill and set one
of them onto the 2 already on the sand track & that these three would be
power for the later train (SB50). The crew arrived and O'B went with them for
the short ride up the hill , across the trestles, and over the NYC after
which they'd reversae, come back on the other track & leave the trailing unit
woith SB50s power. I hadn't noticed the engineers & headmans unsteady gait as
they crossed the turntable & mounted to the cab.........O'Brien went with
them & off they went. I sipped my coffee and waited, and waited, and waited,
and waited AND here they came!!!!!. 2 Geeps sailed down the grade as I sat
mesmerized, thinking "Now, he'll take some air & shut off" "Surely NOW,
he'll shut off & brake". To my horror, the engines emitted a flurry of sparks
as the throttles were advanced and instead of slowing, rushed into the 2
engines already on the track with an ear-splitting CRASH.
I swear those 2 locomotives leaped a foot off the rails when they were hit,
but none of them derailed. They did, however all shut down from the shock and
some knife switches came out too. I came closer and saw that there was oil
and water running from all 4 units. O'B had baled off when he saw it coming
and approached as the engineer slowly crawled down showing a large wet stain
on the front of his overalls where he'd voided his bladder. He staggered
around clutching a beer can mumbling "I'm drunk and I admit it!!. It's all my
fault! hic...I know I'm drunk". The head man had run away & left the
property.
O'Brien came to me & said "What a mess!" I agreed & said "Yeah, I don't
think you'll be using these engines tonight". O'Brien said "NOO, I mean the
mess on the NYC crossovers." NOW IT STRUCK ME.......they went out with 3
engines & came back down the hill with 2. Where was the 3rd engine?????
O'Brien told me it had run through the derail at the NYC signal protecting
the crossovers & would I go to the donut shop & get coffee so we could pour
some into the engineer and on my way 'STRAIGHTEN UP' things on the
crossovers. I ran up the hill and found the 1200 class laying at a slant in
the middle of crushed ties, twisted rails and with the throttle still in # 3
or 4 - the driving wheels turning, digging itself into the ballast & ties. I
went up the ladder & entered the cab to find a half can of CARLINGS Black
Label beer sitting on the control stand. I shut the throttle, set the brakes,
threw the beer can out the window, and picked up the drinking water can &
sloshed it all over the cab (which smelled like a brewery). Now, looking out
the cab window, I saw lanterns coming from the direction of the New York
Central yard, so it was down the ladder on the far side & off to the donut
shop for black coffee - lots of it.
When I got back to the roundhouse, I found Bill Laumeister had
returned to a scene from HELL. The engineer was still staggering around in
his pee-stained clothes mumbling that he was drunk and placed his beer can on
the roof of old Bills new Chrysler New Yorker. Laumeister dashed the can to
the ground and yelled "Get off the property, you drunken fool"
I don't know what they told the NYC, but NO trains ran to Binghamton
that night. Much later I heard the crew all got 10 days off. Nowadays, I
suppose they'd pull your fingernails out.
Regards,
Walter E. Smith
Your pal,
Fred
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
I was surprised a few years ago when I found out it's an old American brand. I had thought it was imported from China.
D to Brighton Beach!!!
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
That party sounds like a good idea! I would love ribs! *drools* Well, if you do ever do some sort of party, I'll do railfanning on the TTC, and have ribs! When is NYCSUBWAY's 6th B-Day? Im rambling. Im rambling. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Have a nice day now!(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen and his evil troll twin <5> NereidFlatbush, and his twin 3 times removed, (6) PelhamBayBrooklynBridge.
To close your scrolling messages, type: */marquee*. (Note: replace the asterisks with these: <>) It's extremely hard to respond when you don't close your tags. BTW, maybe you can go on a vacation and go on an MOD trip sometime...
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
an entire train of R-32's (or 38's) signed for JFK express, 207 - Rockaways.
whoever you are, I salute you!
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=691620
Did you run into Ed on the Vac train? It was on B2 at 50/6
at around 00:30
D to Brighton Beach!!!
Click Here (Photo 1)
Click Here (Photo 2)
If It Doesn't Work This is the album address:
http://community.webshots.com/album/93210781OrABTz
It's the last two photos.
Enjoy.
Photo by Mr. Pirmann:
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
(Actually, prior to the May '87 N/R switch, the B ran through 60th Street to the Plaza all times except late nights. This included weekends. During the rush, it went to Astoria in support of the R. Late nights, it remained the West End shuttle. After May '87, the B only ran as far as 57th/7th on weekends.)
When the B terminated at the Plaza, it discharged on the upper level, ran light to the middle track at 39th Avenue, changed ends and went to the lower level to go into service.
Apparently, the 27/30s only had the orange bulkhead bullet for the B, not the yellow. 'Yellow' Bs could also be Slants and the odd 42. The 'yellow' D carried all three models as well until late '86 when the R68s premiered. For the life of me, I can't remember what ran on the 'Orange' B, but the 6th Avenue Shuttle was 27/30s, and the 'Orange' D was Mod 40s, 42s and eventually 68As.
Your photo illustrates vividly how some equipment was still allowed to deteriorate and fester in graffiti in the late eighties, a time hailed as the Great Rehabilitation of the subway system. If I remember, 27/30s were given the Redbird treatment as early as late '86. The last time I saw one with graffiti over grey & blue was on an L coming out of the Junction portal in May '89.
Despite the lack of A/C, I was very fond of the 32s as they looked in this photo, with the beige interior and cobalt blue interior doors- which looked far more attractive to me than when they were repainted orange. I'd forgotten the end doors were also repainted that color of blue, making the cars look very similar to the way they had at birth. I forget whether the side door exteriors were also repainted blue, and they're not visible in the photo. The R42s also had the cobalt blue interior doors around the same time before both models were GOH'd.
Of course, NOTHING looked better than the way the 32s through 42s originally looked, with the marine blue exterior doors, aqua interior walls and seats.
Thank you for a very interesting photo.
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The Bush administration sought information on
Tuesday (April 13) from states on how they would contract rail service
to private companies if Amtrak were dismantled and some or all of its
routes were open to competition, according to this Reuters report.
The Transportation Department's regulatory filing also sought to
determine which states or group of states would be interested in
bidding out and overseeing privately run city-to-city service and which
states would be best positioned to move forward.
Frustrated by Amtrak's perennial losses, its embarrassing failure to
ween itself from government subsidies, and annual fights with
Congress over rail funding, the Bush administration has proposed to
dramatically overhaul the railroad's operations.
The plan would dismantle Amtrak's overarching responsibilities as a
federal corporation over several years and turn over major oversight
to the states, which could contract service to private companies or
return the business to Amtrak.
Amtrak runs 250 trains in 46 states on an average weekday. Ridership
topped a record 24 million in 2003 and current figures show Amtrak
could carry more passengers this year. It has operated city-to-city
routes without competition for 33 years.
A spokesman for the railroad had no comment on the latest
development in the proposal but Amtrak President David Gunn is
skeptical of privatization efforts, especially any proposal to separate
Amtrak from its responsibility for maintaining its infrastructure.
Congress is weighing the administration's plan and has permitted the
Federal Railroad Administration to gauge interest from the states
even though many lawmakers whose states benefit from Amtrak
service are not convinced that breaking up the railroad is wise.
State governments have also expressed some skepticism, particularly
over cost at a time of severe budget constraints.
But Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta has said private rail
operators may be able to provide more efficient, reliable and cheaper
service.
The agency has tightened its oversight of Amtrak since a funding
crisis almost triggered a shutdown in 2002. It must now meet a series
of financial benchmarks to receive its annual subsidy, which exceeds a
record $1.22 billion this year. Amtrak wants close to $2 billion next
year, but the administration does not support this request.
The railroad has also taken steps on its own to reform its business
practices and stem red ink.
Amtrak has cut nearly 3,000 jobs and other costs over the past two
years and eliminated unprofitable and inefficient businesses. It has
also boosted its high-speed Acela service and is addressing some
pressing repairs and updates to track, train cars and tunnels.
(The preceding Reuters report was filed Tuesday, April 13, 2004.)
Iraq's getting railroad ... I guess the blue states need to declare war on the red states ... oh wait, we've got to find oil first.
http://www.ajg41.clara.co.uk/iraq/news.html
http://www.startribune.com/stories/303/3843410.html
But hey, America can go to hell, vote republican. :(
ANd why won't the states or privates do their own service now? Why do they have to be forced with zero service first? No ones going to run to my city on these rickety 70 year old tracks on the end of the line.
Hey, here's a thought, fund SEHSR and midwest hsr, etc. so we can have a real system FIRST, then tweak all this junk! Gimme some Atlanta connections too!!
And kids, remember, how many sucessful businesses did Bush run before he was in office? I don't think he's one to talk here.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Congress can’t make up its mind whether it wants Amtrak as a business or a social service!
If congress believes that passenger service by the states is profitable, I'd BEG them to distribute the whacky terbacky that THEY'RE smoking to us and let us vote on it. However, last I looked NJT, MTA, MARC, and MBTA were NOT making a profit. Did we miss something?
But then, this is our republican congress at work and they just CAN'T put down the crackpipe. :(
Good one.... When you consider the transportation bill allocated billions in highway and road construction, only a fraction when to public transportation. ie Amtrack.
Yet, I don't hear the NEOCONS talking about closing down the interstate because the freeways are NOT free.
Just some thoughts.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
While we're at it, why not turn over the maintenance of the LIRR in NYC to the NYCTA, and the maintenance of the other parts to the counties on Long Island like Nassau and Kings. Why not just have you maintain the stretch of highway right in front of your house and have the municipalities through which Interstate highways pass maintain them. It's such a great idea. This way no one will need to pay Federal or State taxes at all!! Everyone can maintain their own infrastructure with their own money. Wouldn't that be grand. Hey, wait, why don't we privatize the Army too. Everyone can buy their own guns and fight against Al Quida on their own. No need for any kind of organized armed forces at all.
Maintenance though is already being turned over, at least partially, with respect to the MNCR.
Actually, the MTA's section has the fastest speed in the NEC.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Perhaps you meant to say slowest? Top speed is in Rhode Island somewhere. Next highest is in NJT territory. New Rochelle to New Haven is the source of huge frustration for Amtrak.
CG
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
And best maintained catenary, right? Wait, and the best maintenance practices too, with 2 tracks out of four permanently out of service between Bridgeport and New Haven.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
What?!?! WHY?!?
About 10 miles worth of 1 track was torn out in the Penn Central era and never restored. The rest of the track was in such poor shape that basically they have to work on it all the time to keep it safe at 90mph. Plus they are dealing with a work crew most of whom only work first shift, because they don't have enough money to pay people to keep a more rational schedule.
Every time I had ridden through there, there was trackwork SOMEWHERES on that line. It was defacto 2 tracks to Bridgeport and then from there 3 tracks to New Rochelle, when in fact they have 4 tracks throughout with the exception of the 10 miles torn up in Penn Central era.
As I saw it they bit off way more than they could chew. They decided to completely rebuild Stamford terminal, New Haven terminal, Norwalk terminal, New Roshelle terminal, replace the 1906 catenary, install concrete ties on the whole line, re-work the 1918 car north of SS67 and replace the H-5 searchlights all at the same time. They reduced the entire 75 mile line to shit for a huge (and getting huge-er) period of time cause they couldn't focus on a single task and complete it quickly to move on to the next project leaving usable infrastructure behind them.
Amtrak on the NEC stakes out a single segment between interlockings, finishes the job, then moves on. All these 4-track lines have built in capability to handle service disruptions, but that can only go so far.
What is that?
Track 1 - 2 - 4 are very much alive but have never been 90 mph. its 60 trough curve at Milford and track speed is 75 from CP 261 to Mp 71.8.
Mike, where do you hear that bullshit from. Are you saying that quaint little two-car train that runs from Albany to Boston is profitable? OK so now you're going to scream connectivity at me, right? Yeah, of course connectivity is important. So "profitability" depends on how you attribute revenues, and how you allocate costs. To claim that only overhead is killing Amtrak is as bogus as claiming that NEC makes money.
And you believe the stuff he feeds to the public? Come on. You're a better analyst than that.
By definition, maintenance is part of the cost. Hence, it is unprofitable overall. Your comment would be like an airline saying it was profitable, aside from the cost of maintaining the planes.
So why aren't you adding routes? And don't tell me there is an equipment shortage. There are railcars running around all over the place waiting to be used. This issue of TRAINS just has some stuff up for auction, all BUDD stainless steel cars.
The economics are complicated, and none of the generalizations (e.g. cutting routes won't save money, all routes profitable, etc.) are true when you zoom in.
AEM7
The story was on Faux News and even on NEWSMAX ... and even there, seems as though people were a bit disappointed in MORE burdening of the states with federal responsibilities sans funding.
The only thing that shocks me is that the United States government is so willing to dismantle one of its own agencies so willingly.
1. That Amtrak is a waste of money, period, it is a government-subsidized land cruise and should be eliminated because it is a waste of taxpayer resource.
2. That even if you believe that interstate rail service is a good thing, the appropriate authority to provide such service is private contractors operating with state funding. State that refuse to fund a service out of their own tax income should not receive service.
3. That even if you believe there should be a national rail service operator, that operator should have responsibility for operating trains only, and infrastructure and stock maintenance should be competitively bid and contract awarded to the lowest/best-value bidder.
Of the anti-Amtrak arguments, 1 has some merit, although there is the equal and opposite argument that Amtrak is an important economic engine generating tourism traffic. 2 also has some merit in the sense that the state should pay for trains that they want to run, but there is some value to having a national network (or at least that's what rail travellers will have you believe). A bunch of small operators each operating a corridor gives local authorities more freedom but also result in efficiency losses due to fragmentation. 3 has no merit whatsoever; if you believe in a national system, the nature of the business is that you simply cannot split the business into operating v.s. maintenance very easily without running into a whole host of problems.
AEM7
Theres alot of things that are a waste of taxpayers resources, and Amtrak isnt one of them, or its atleast the least of them.
2. That even if you believe that interstate rail service is a good thing, the appropriate authority to provide such service is private contractors operating with state funding. State that refuse to fund a service out of their own tax income should not receive service.
Well, what if states decide that its the federal governments job to fund something thats considered interstate commerce? In fact, what if the constitution states that its the federal governments job to fund something considered interstate commerce?
3. That even if you believe there should be a national rail service operator, that operator should have responsibility for operating trains only, and infrastructure and stock maintenance should be competitively bid and contract awarded to the lowest/best-value bidder.
Uhhh............No.
Take your pick: Housing, Schools, Hospitals... or Amtrak?
Well, what if states decide that its the federal governments job to fund something thats considered interstate commerce?
A lot of Amtrak travel occurs entirely within the boundaries of one state. In fact, some Amtrak trains run within the boundaries of one state only. The California trains, the Keystone Corridor, the Empire Service, The Illini, for example.
Uhhh............No.
Wow, that's such an informed and persuasive response.
AEM7
Hmmm. I would tend to think a smaller Federal government is a good thing. More power to Massachusetts politicians have if Washington has less. Now, Federal oversight is not an issue -- when the Federal government becomes small enough, us states can just ignore their oversight and they won't have any resources to do anything about it.
Oh wait, I forgot, you live in New York State. Maybe it's good then that the Feds still has power. hehe. :-P
I'm reminded of a visit to Vermont ... some federal suits came up to look over a local police department, deploring the lack of Hispanic employees. Police Chief told them that there weren't any Hispanics within 50 miles of there and the suits told him that their federal funding would be cut unless they FOUND some. Police chief chomped on his cigar, said, "we don't GET any federal funding" and asked them to either leave or spend a night in the lockup.
New York, of ALL states, WOULD be better off if the feds went away. But if this DID come to pass, the VERY states that are looting the till and have the ideologues in congrefs PUSHING this idea would be the ones shot in the foot. Therefore, "BRING IT ON!" :)
Selkirk, you are probably old enough to remember what wartime railroading is like, and it's definitely nothing like Amtrak!! If the country was really at war, people would probably be carried in boxcars (correction: troop carriers). There will be no dining cars. Every single piece of equipment would be used, and safety would truely take second place. This country is nowhere near war footing.
I agree that Amtrak is important, I think regulars on this board know my viewpoint, but I don't think Amtrak should be justified based on the wrong reasons. Amtrak is important mostly because it provides an alternative for people who do not like to drive, and it could actually produce a lot of user benefits in places where it serves well.
AEM7
But yeah, I know where you're coming from - merely pointing out the particular stupidity of this particular round of sausage-crafting. During the "no fly" days following the Attack on New York, you either tried to find a place that HAD a car to rent you OR you got on Amtrak. There were NO other alternatives. You'd THINK our sausage crafters would have noticed, but they were too busy handing our tax money to Halliburton and giving Cheney that tax cut that he needed. :(
I got STUCK in that aftermath with a death in the family down in South Carolina with funeral in Connecticut. Amtrak was the ONLY way it could be done. Not that I'd fly, mind ya ...
Considering you and airplanes, we may have found the perfect way to off Osama, if we manage to get our hands on him.
Take him to Albany, drop him off at your place and the two of you fly to Washington. You walk away, Osama's found in the strip mine in Pennsylvania that the plane drops in.
Wait a minute.....numbers 1 through 5 fit Shrub......
Apparently he's not in the Texas Air National Guard. No F-14's flown into tall buildings.
Question: What's the difference between Osama Bin Laden and an arnine?
Answer: The arnine is useful.
Note that even though I don't really believe in what I just said, responses and counterarguments are welcome. Flamage too.
Things could be worse, you COULD have found yourself trying to defend THIS one ...
I'll try and figure something out. :-)
Yeah, I got a bone to pick here too. Why should the Federal government subsidize people's vacations? Look at all the subsidized mortgages that people who own vacation homes are getting. Oh wait, and what about all that money that Army Corps of Engineers spend dredging shipping channels and maintaining locks? For all those f**king yachts to go up and down in a 900 ft long lock and waste all that water? For all those f**king yacht to disrupt railroad traffic when the bridge opens?
:-)
What subsidized mortgages?
CG
For ALL the burden those earning chit get, Amtrak is a VERY small price to pay. Less than 1/500th the cost of Shrub getting even with Saddam for "he tried to kill my DADDY" ... after all, it was OSAMA that attacked New York, NOT Saddam ... the wriggling and howlings of justification for what has transpired between the death of Amtrak and the American Taliban going after Howard STERN fer krissakes just STUNS me that PATRIOTS would ALLOW this silliness. AND talk of re-electing the CREEP. :(
The most recent pile of dung I had to listen to was that "it'd be cheaper to transport the public by limousine than subsidize Amtrak!" OK, where's my gottamned BENTLEY? :)
And gimme a limo. $200 bucks an hour, 10 hours a week. BUT it wiould be more than that, you see, with the more limo's comes more space per car, which is less capacity. traffic times would double :)
Therefore I would like to see a similar arrangement for passenger rail - sure subsidize it - but let private industry operate it. Why does everyone object to a privately operated passenger rail system, albeit subsidized, while no-one is advocating nationalization of the airlines?
Because, while the service quality will probably improve under reasonable private contracts, the cost will also go up. Government operation is usually the cheapest way forward provided that you don't care about product quality. If you privatized it, both user fees (i.e. ticket revenues) and government subsidy will probably have to go up, even though the service quality might improve.
Privatization to cut costs can only come at the expense of service scope or quality.
And our airports are in shams with this short distance trips. Although humorous, these commentaries I read in the paper aout what a chore flying is today is not good for america.
But if your TAXES are paying for it, FREE is the way to go - there's ALWAYS a price for everything. If AMTRAK is UP to the PROFIT, then let's throw this political BULLSHIRT out where it can grow some damned CORN ... CSX? Hello? Would *YOU* *BUY* Amtrak out of taxpayer expense and reimburse *US* for the US$179 BILLION that the taxpayers invested in it AND guarantee that you will *NEVER* come to us taxpayers AGAIN EVER for a SINGLE DOLLAR of "subsidy?"
If the answer is *YES*, then Amtrak's dead, and DESERVEDLY SO ... The COST of AMtrak will be PURCHASED and ZERO DOLLARS of further expenditure by the taxpayers in *ANY FORM* will EVER be required IN PERPETUUM ... Nada, zugga, here comes the KK train! :)
Let's SEE *****THAT***** as the "deal to kill Amtrak" ... THEN *I* would believe in it ... otherwise it's just people TOO stupid to SEE what republicans are all about and it's time to get even with the robber barons. HELL ... SPAIN had more balls than AMERICANS in coting OUT the sumbitches who have given them nothing BUT the high hard one without so much as some tongue action. :(
Here is an exerpt from the Daily News:
The Patakis also claimed a $46,921 farming loss on the Lake Champlain property. "He intends to make it a working farm," said his chief spokeswoman, Lisa Stoll.
Guess he needed to find a place for all the Bullsh*t ;-)
Why? If Amtrak cannot pay it's own bills, and it doesn't provide a unique service which cannot be duplicated in the private sector, then it cannot be justified.
IF the feds paid for the upkeep of all of the rails, and stations, Amtrak would likely make a LOT of money.
Here are two numbers which tell you plenty about why air travel occasionally gets subsidized while rail travel subsidies are always on the chopping block: Annual domestic airline passengers: 575 million; Annual Amtrak ridership outside the NEC: 10 million.
CG
There are no federally subsidized airlines. The "bailouts" don't count.
Interestingly enough, that hotbed of socialism, Canada, has pretty much come to that conclusion. The last I looked, you couldn't take a regularly scheduled train cross-country any more.
What you can do in western Canada is take some very expensive excursion rides.
Seriously people. Someone elected the wrong bush in the whitehouse, and now we have McCarthy style tactics. BS whichhunts that dont' fit in with anything to bring up the general confidence levels of the incumbant.
Or, they could just be putting in more storage rooms. It will be interesting to see what develops.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
It is a low priority but if they could demolish the current south mezzanine walls and install a couple of HEETs with the restored stairways, it could save a lot of unnecessary legwork for riders entering or exiting at the south end .
How is the station served ?
Peace,
ANDEE
-- Ed Sachs
Now that it has been brought up what are the working arrangements at Bleecker Street? Are there any other stations that have 'unusual' working arrangements?
There are no other 'one-sided' stations or connections in the NYC subway system.
I see that the transfers at Bleecker St. are from Downtown only.
Presumably the connection is with the Northbound platform only.
Why is this so and why are the platforms staggered?
Originally, there was no connection between the IRT and the IND at Bleecker St. After unification, at some point Bleecker s.b. was connected to IND Bdwy-Lafayette, because it was relatively easy to do. The only reason for not connecting the n.b. side, quite simply, is that it would have been a very big job, since Bleecker had no cross-under, and the n.b. platform was quite some distance away. At the time, it wasn't considered worthwhile. Clearly it was a very short-sighted decision, which the MTA is in the process of rectifying.
The staggered platforms at Bleecker (and other nearby stations) arose when the platforms, which originally accommodated only 5-car trains, were lengthened to accommodate 10-car trains. I don't know the reasoning for it, but n.b. platforms were lengthened northward, and s.b. platforms were lengthened southward.
I (along with others in here) would like to see your photos.
The excursion train will leave the Grand Central Shuttle at 10:00 and proceed via the Lexington Avenue Line to Bowling Green.
The excursion train will proceed south to South Ferry, proceed around the South Ferry Loop, and then north to 242nd Street and lunch.
The excursion train will lay-up at 240th Street Yard during the lunch stop.
After the lunch stop has been completed, the excursion train will proceed to Times Square, where the excursion will end.
Sounds like a mini-errand. (yet on MY lovely line)
--Mark
Might as well go home after arriving at 242nd/VCP.
Thanks again as always djf179.
What a waste of money.
til next time
Chris: Is this an MOD Trip for railfans or a Transit Museum one for the general public. The Transit Museum trips tend to take shorter and less interesting trips whereas the MOD trips tend to run all day and vist several non-revenue locations.
Larry,RedbirdR33
til next time
--Mark
3 HOURS!!!??????
--Mark
--Mark
(to spend MORE money on "discount activities" at the park?)
Isn't the purpose of this trip meant to be TRANSIT??
......and not PARK related??
1Yao9
Or maybe it's just preference - if the 3 hour layover was in Coney Island, I'd be perfectly fine with it.
--Mark
--Mark
One question if anyone can answer it:
Are reservations still recommended or is paying at the boarding location the only option at this point?
Transit Museum "Nostalgia Trains" are by reservation only.
Call New York Transit Museum Events Line at 718-694-1867 to reserve.
All MOD Excursion Trips are now POB, Day of Trip.
BTW, MOD trips are excursions, Transit Museum Nostalgia Trains are
just that a Train of Vintage Cars that takes you from Departure to
a Destination and nearby attractions besides lunch and return.
8 > ) ~ Sparky
Don't mind me, that whole "Metro North HOURLIES rip off the state" nonsense in another thread HONKED me off ... they never DO go after the time-card signers, so-called "salaried appointees" who take 6 hour lunches EVERY day or those who were appointed and make six figures and were never ONCE spotted by any of the foot soldiers on premises or worse, the Al D'Amatos of the world who are going to be cut a check for 5% of the TOTAL R-160 order for "making arrangements with the Paturkey in exchange for meeting the technical specifications of the proposed RFP" ... Aggggh.
My APPRECIATION deeply extended to those who do the MOD trips, and for those who can give so willingly and freely of themselves for not a dime at ALL at the museums. While most media and the public in general seem to loathe the dedicated people who run our trains, who fix our trains, the track and signals that they run on and do their very best to "make things go" they are subjected to "Spanish inquisitions" like this while the "ruling class" types run free, owing people nothing for their biweekly nut. Discouraged me to no end watching "agency execs" in the ones I work for rarely or never putting in an "appearance."
Meanwhile, the dedicated, hard-working people who give us these treats are subject to being sent downtown on a whim. Meanwhile, their superiots EXEMPTED themselves from the very BS THEY created. :(
Perfect example:
* At a special Friday evening session of the New Mexico House of Representatives in February (on health insurance taxes), Democratic leaders needed Rep. Bengie Regensberg for a vote and sent state police to retrieve him at the motel where he was staying temporarily. Troopers reported having to subdue and handcuff Regensberg, who was naked, combative and "likely intoxicated." (Regensberg said the troopers were too rough with him.) [KQRE-TV (Albuquerque), 2-16-04]
REALITY: I have friends and family in the State Police. At least ONCE every 48 hours, while the sausage works is in session, a legislator is pulled over for "erratic driving on the Thruway" ... every NINE hours, a state agency "policial appointee" is pulled over for same. According to the LAW, a police officer *CANNOT* arrest a porker if they're headed TOWARDS Albany on "official business." And of course since Smallbany rolls up their sidewalks at 16:45, they're not going to be TOO looped headed AWAY from Albany ... when was the last time any WIG got sent down to whiz in the cup?
Forgive me my "class warfare" thingy here, but it REALLY honks me off with being shat upon as a Civil Servant who CARED, and the nouveau "Ruling Class" who have one set of rules for *US* and an entirely different set for themselves. I'd like to SEE every damned legislator and political hack whiz in the random bottle and then go off to jail. DOUBLY for those who steal FAR more than $15-30 an hour and are no-shows themselves. Fair is FAIR.
GOD BLESS C Division! And the various volunteers at the museums! THANK YOU for what y'all DO!
7 to Roosevelt, 7 to Queens Plz or Queensbridge by express
10 to Roosevelt, 10 to Queens Plz by local
Why stop at 225 not 231, serve a 9 station with a 1 and skip an allstop station (one with lots of bus connections). And then if you are serving the 9 station, why not make the next train make all stops.
So in effect the service pattern was 9 train 1 train exp 9 train in other words, three 9's in a row. WONDERFUL
This has got to go. Hey I have a crazy idea, why not have all local trains make all local stops? Naw, too crazy
I've told stories before about what it was like to live on 230th Street between Kingsbridge Ave and Corlear ... the choice was an HOUR on the phucking 1 train, a WALK to 211th and Isham to catch the A (the latter was FASTER to downtown) or when I was *really* late in the morning, grabbing Penn Central at Marble Hill and just PAYING to get there in 18 minutes ... what is NOW Meatball North *was* the way to get to GCT *fast* ... the IRT #1? Hahahahahahahaha. It was always as bad as the fabled train to Alice Springs. :(
The 1/9 is a SPECIAL insult to upper Broadway ... now you've got HALF the trains on the slow boat to China at any given stop ... the IND was ALWAYS a better deal ... I suppose the 1 train from Kingsbridge was the reason WHY I *loathe* the IRT and always had a love for the IND ... damned redbirds. :)
I don't understand. What did they try?
NOTHING honks off Noo Yawkahs MORE than seeing the headlights, going "ah!" and then "honk-honk ........ honk honk" as the FUTHAMUCKA goes barrleing by WITHOUT STOPPING.
Hello? Anybody wanna EXPRESS the outrage over "honk-honk, no stop, bite me?" ... :)
Here's the 2003 version
R36 #9346 @ QC
At 10:40 a.m. the excursion train will leave the Grand Central Shuttle and proceed via the Lexington Avenue Line to Brooklyn Bridge.
The excursion train will proceed via the Lexington Avenue Line to Hunts Point Avenue, then via Track M to Pelham Bay Park.
The excursion train will then proceed south via Track M to Westchester Yard, operate via the Loop Track, and then proceed via Track M to 177th Street, where a lunch stop will be made.
After lunch, the excursion train will proceed south via Track M to Hunts Point Avenue, then via the Lexington Avenue line to 86th Street and turn.
The excursion train will then proceed north to Woodlawn.
The excursion train will proceed south via the Lexington Avenue line to Livonia Yard.
The excursion train will proceed north via the Lexington Avenue line to 59th Street and terminate.
The excursion train returns light to Westchester Yard.
This General Order specifies that a 10-car train of SMEE equipment will be used; the Transit Museum’s General Order was silent on this subject.
McDonalds across from station entrance, Dominos and KFC on Westchester Ave opposite McDonalds (walking up towards Castle Hill).
Burger King should still be there on Metropolitan Ave (the street with an island in the middle.)
On Castle Hill, 1 stop from Parkchester is a Wendy's and Blimpies.
That looks like an aweome route on paper! Tons of outdoor photo ops and a yard tour! City Hall loop is on the agenda too.
I can't wait! :)
Shanghai Daily news
The track of the Shanghai Maglev Line is sinking, according to Shanghai Maglev Transport Development Company.
"We have been aware of the sinking of our maglev track, though very slightly," Xia Guozhong, an official in charge of the company's media section, told Shanghai Daily yesterday.
He declined to comment on what had caused the sinking or whether it would affect the operation of the city's maglev line - the world's first maglev in commercial use.
Some rail transport experts contacted by Shanghai Daily yesterday believe the sinking could be caused by either overpumping of underground water or faulty track foundations.
But they stressed that a slight sinking or "sinking within safe range" is normal and had occurred in the city's existing Rail Transport No.1 and No.2. It would not have severe consequences for the line's normal operation, they said.
Yu Jiakang, a senior engineer of Shanghai Tunnel Engineering and Rail Transit Design and Research Institute, said: "If the track sinks beyond its safety level, managers will have to stop the line's operation.
"Constructors can also halt the sinking of a rail track by re-consolidating its foundation," Yu said.
With a total investment of 8.9 billion yuan (US$1.07 billion), the 30-kilometer Shanghai Maglev Line, which uses German technology, links the bustling Pudong New Airport to Longyang Road Metro Station in about eight minutes.
But in the first week of daily all-day operation late last month, only about one-sixth of available tickets were sold, operators said.
On average, about 73 passengers travel on each trip of the train which has 440 seats. A normal ticket for each one-way trip costs 75 yuan.
Critics say the line's low traffic flow is caused by its expensive admission, poor market promotion and the line's limited distance.
Yes but according to another report in The Peoples Daily, "The company said it took Shanghai's spongy soil into consideration when it designed the train and compensated by adding support to the track bed."
"The Shanghai maglev project was built on a foundation of soft soil, so some subsidence in the track is inevitable."
The seller thinks they may be off of some old work equipment.
Do these look familiar to anyone?
But the seller says they're from NY subway, sooooooooooo.......
hahahaha
Anyway, what do you guys think is the most reliable subway car?
Chuck
Map
FAQ: Letter, Number, and Color Code System
Be that as it may, the colors are now associated with the major trunk lines:
7th Av-Broadway IRT - Red
Lexington Av IRT - Green
8th Av IND - Blue
6th Av IND - Orange
Crosstown IND - Light Green
Broadway (Manhattan) BMT - Yellow
Broadway (Brooklyn) BMT - Brown
Canarsie-14 St (BMT) - Gray
Shuttles - Black
Flushing IRT - Magenta
Isn't Nassau St. Service Brown(JMZ)?
In 1979, the colors were changed such that the primary express service of every trunk became the new main color.
So, the A was already blue
The N was already yellow
The 2 was already red
The D was already orange
The GG was already light green
The LL was already gray.
The Lexington line couldn't follow this rule because the 4 was red, 5 was black and 6 yellow. Dark green was still left, and red and green are good opposing colors.
The 7 was a light purple, now it would be a violet color.
Brown was left over for Nassau Street.
Shuttles became black because that's not a color.
The new JFK Express was light blue because it's the color of the sky and possibly because it ran mostly alongside 8th Avenue blue.
No it was not, it was orange in 1967 then a very light shade of orange in 1972.
I have a real 1972 map.
Tony
No.
CHANGE AT HOYT STREET FOR TRAINS TO CHURCH AVE AND QUEENS
These signs were all over the Fulton St line until the 1980's. There was one at the extreme front ends of the Manhattan-bound platforms at Broadway ENY and Rockaway Ave.
That can't be it either. Maybe "CHANGE AT HOYT STREET FOR CHURCH AVE AND CROSSTOWN TRAINS"?
The sign at Rockaway Ave lacked the "via Crosstown".
That's not a T after FOR. I don't doubt that was the gist of the message, but that's not what it says verbatim.
The sign for all we know can say cross over for whatever line, so by showing which line(or one of them anyways), you can get an idea of what the signs trying to say.
If you dont like it, DONT READ MY POSTS THEN.
All your doing is trolling because you cant stand other helping.
New Subtalk mystery?
I said look at the TRAIN LINE.
And I aint helping you, so please shut up if you cant handle others trying to help.
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You would see it when crossing from the Queens-bound platform to the Hoyt-bound platform. But if you were going to Manhattan or the Bronx, wouldn't you get the C at Lafayette, two blocks away?
To get to L:afayette, you would have had to pay a second fare. The IND wanted to trap you into their funny system to get you where you wanted to go. ;)
And in turn, make a profit from double fares ;-). Then again, I wonder how much people did that [or still do for that matter].....
You would not pay a double fare if you entered at Lafayette instead of Fulton. You would pay a single fare.
Exactly why Greenpoint Avenue was singled out I never understand.
The odd thing about these signs was that the GG never went to Church Ave until 1967. The purpose of these signs still eludes me.
That letter that you call a "C" on the second line might be a Q.
CHANGE AT HOYT STREET
FOR QUEENS VIA THE
CROSSTOWN LINE
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Go down to Utica
and take the (4).
But not to Jupita'
or you get no more.
Go by Kingston.
Go by Nostrand.
Land at Franklin.
Then get up and stand.
Then skip 3
and land at Atlantic.
Jump and say "Wheeee"
but don't be frantic.
Then the doors close.
Go one stop up.
Your happiness shows.
Happy is the pup(py).
Skip again and go to Borough Hall.
Don't end now, ya haven't seen it all.
Across the East River.
Be a good giver
and continue the ride.
Of course, ya still have rules to abide--by.
Stop at Bowling Green. Find the (5).
Then pass Wall Street.
End up at Fulton. But don't you dive (there's no water)!
Go to Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall. There's the (6).
Before the doors close, take some pics.
Keep going up. Arrive at Union Square.
The station is really quite worth a stare.
The doors close again and you go to GC.
Then the doors close again before a bee
comes into the car.
There isn't a char.
Skip 51st and go to 59th.
The doors close again and you go quite a while.
Suddenly the next stop is away by just a tile.
86th Street.
The doors shut again.
Ya go to 125th.
It's not a myth. Then you're in the Bronx.
Several more stops and you have arrived.
You're at Woodlawn and you can go dive (into a pool).
This poem was arranged and typed by Benjamin Camilo Diamond, a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn.
I hope you like it. :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
As a rule of thumb, you try not to add contingency service that provides connections that weren't previously available, and won't be once the final service configuration is activated, because public demand will force you to maintain that temporary connection. Look at the W, for example...
Had they done this, it would have been primarily an off-peak service, because during rush hours most 5 trains go to Flatbush Avenue. Thus, service at South Ferry would have been limited or unavailable at precisely the times when riders would most desire it--that is, rush hours.
The more sinister theories others have offered aren't necessary, because the question has a more obvious answer: quite simply, the service made no sense, because it couldn't have been offered at acceptable levels during rush hour without canibalizing service at Flatbush Avenue.
What if they extended the 6 to South Ferry during the rush, and had 5 service at other times (4 would terminate at 149-Concourse during the overnight)?
4 running only from Woodlawn to 149/GC? Then what would run to Newlots late nights in place of the 3?
The 3.
Chuck
The KK (the first one) went down the Broadway El (in Brooklyn) to 6th Avenue via the Chrystie Street Connection.
The K (the second one) was a replacement for the AA 8th Avenue Local. It was combined with the < C > to become the C.
Actually there were three. The first was the Jamaica-Bway/Bklyn-6 Av Lcl which ran from 11/67 to 1973 (+/-).
It was shortened to K and cut back to Eastern Parkway This lasted until 1976 when it was discontinued.
IT was resurrected again circa 1985/6 which double letters were eliminated. It was applied to the old AA service between 168 St and WTC. It lasted only a few years.
Larry,RedbirdR33
When was this? I've never heard of this one before.
-RJM
-RJM
Lets not forget it was the Broadway - West End Express
And for my money it was a much better service than the B. The T also had a little brother, the TT, which actually outlasted the T by several months.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Yes it did. A watermain break on Willoughby Street about 1:00AM on Sunday, August 22, 1965 completely cut off the BMT Southern Section from Manhattan. By Tuesday evening after the rush hour most Broadway services were running over the Bridge including the RR. As a temporary replacement the TT ran between Astoria and Whitehall Street until Wednesday morning when the Montague Street Tunnel was re-opened.
Larry,RedbirdR33
NOTE: If you don't have the helvetica font on your system, those characters may come out in the default system font.
Chuck :-)
Arial is nothing more but a substandard imitation of Helvetica, created by Microsoft. In the eyes of font purists, it's disgusting. For the most part, both fonts are often mistaken with one another but some letters give it all away as indicated by the image below:
As you can see, Arial is loose with unusual turns and general sloppiness. Not to mention the blatant asymmetrical style in some of the letters like C and W. It may seem a bit much when it comes to something supposedly silly like fonts, but people do notice. Believe it or not, there's even a third font thrown into this font mix: it's known as Akzidenz-Grotesk. It can be credited as the first 'contemporary' font the MTA puts into use and can be seen in the older signage around the system. It's overall design is like that of the two previously mentioned fonts.
The Akzidenz Q and R are the coolest letters ever. Akzidenz looks much like Helvetica, but certain letters have acute differences in their appearance.
When it comes to Helvetica, the letter O and the number 0 certainly look similar; the only difference is the width of the stretch downward. Who cares, really? There is no 0 (Zero) train, so what's there to confuse with if O is used?
We all know that I looks nothing like 1 (when you draw them right), but the way they are in Helvetica, the MTA's font, they appear identical.
Not really. Helvetica does distuingish the I and 1 enough to tell them apart but from far distances, it's anyone's guess. The image below helps:
Realistically, the likelehiood of I being used for a Division B route in the future is slim-to-none since the MTA has other perfectly distinguishable letters to choose from; like K, U or X.
It's sad actually to think that the IRT ended up being more flexible. They can HAVE a 49 train, no sweat. :-\
Years before it the 8 was Times Square-Astoria
Normal operation of the West End Short Line was "via Tunnel thru Nassau Loop via Bridge to Bklyn," as the larger signs on BMT Standards read. It ran clockwise, while the Culver Express ran counter- clockwise. Opposite routings may have occurred at the beginning and end of rush hours.
The number '8' in the original Post-War IRT numbering scheme was for Astoria, the same number as the BMT's mid-1920s official numbers approved by the State Public Service Commission. The City claimed after WW II that it was not under the supervision of the PSC.
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
(My head hurts @_@)
Front route roll signs on R-12's were reputed to have 8 ASTORIA on them. I did see a Steve Zabel slide years ago with that very sign, although it was in an R-21/22. The R-12 side signs did have Ditmars Blvd. on them, such as the one I have.
The second #8 was the Bronx Third Ave. local. A light blue bullet appeared on map only. Low-V's had plate signs, but no #8's on them. R-12's were signed up as SHUTTLE.
Not sure if any platform or station signs had #8 for 3rd Ave. I think the 1967 map first showed the light blue #8. When the "el" closed in '73, #8 died.
Bill "Newkirk"
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
All was normal on the run back to Manhattan until we are in the 60th street tube. We are approaching Lexington coming up the hill and I see tail lights. I am thinking "It'll clear by the time we hit the red signals" like it always does. We climb the hill, the train isn't moving, and we pull up to a red signal.
An R train has apparently stalled in the station, and we were pretty much stuck.
The T/O gets it over the radio that the R train ahead of us went BIE while leaving the station (which is key later on in the story). They are doing a sweep and we will be moving shortly. The crew that does the sweep finds nothing, but still can't figure out why the train tripped. The train continues to sit. Finally, control gives us permission to pass 2 red signals and get a car door to the platform. We pulled up about 10 feet from the rear of the stalled R train. The C/R makes the announcement that you may exit through the first car and we will be not be moving for some time. The train empties out through the keyed door in the first car.
The train continues to sit there. By then R's were using 63rd street because all that was coming up and stopping at Lexington was the N or W. Finally after about 30 minutes the R train leaves. We wait a little bit and pull into Lexington.
A signal maintainer got on board and told the T/O on our train that a faulty signal tripped the R train and made it go BIE, and that we may trip on the switch as well. We passed through, but didn't trip.
That R finally left Lexington in service, it made an express on the local run.
The ride down was chaos. Coming off the turn into 57th street an N train is sitting in the Q terminal. We pulled out before that train and ran normally from there. Times Square, Herald Square, and Union Square were ridiculous!
When exiting at Union Square people on the platform were crowding the door. I saw this lady lift her right foot to take a step and I said "Step aside and let the people leave the train first please!"
What a crazy evening... If anyone saw any M or W trains on Sea Beach they might have been supplemental.
There's one big benefit of 63rd Street. Imagine if it was not there. A blockage off one of the Queens tunnels used to be DISASTER!
Kawasaki isn't going to be building any units, AFAIK.
Well then let me be the first to tell you.....
http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/r160.html
Yup. Kawasaki would be building its own cars
Copyright 2003 The Omaha World-Herald Company
Omaha World Herald (Nebraska)
April 9, 2003, Wednesday SUNRISE EDITION
SECTION: BUSINESS; Pg. 2d;
LENGTH: 267 words
HEADLINE: Kawasaki hired to build NYC, Boston rail cars
BYLINE: By Virgil Larson
SOURCE: WORLD-HERALD BUREAU
DATELINE: LINCOLN
BODY:
A Lincoln factory has won a $ 64 million contract to build rail passenger cars for Boston's transit system and a share of a contract worth up to $ 1 billion for subway cars for New York City.
The Lincoln plant of Kawasaki Rail Car Inc. will manufacture 260 New York subway cars out of a base order for 660 cars, the company announced Tuesday. Another company, Alstom Transportation, will build the remaining 400. The cars that Alstom assembles will be built on Kawasaki undercarriages.
The contract has an option under which New York's Metropolitan Transit Authority can buy a total of 1,700 cars. If that happens, 420 of the 1,700 cars will be built by Kawasaki, which will build the undercarriages for all 1,700.
Final fitting of the New York cars will be done at Kawasaki's plant in Yonkers, N.Y. Delivery of the first cars is set for 2006.
New York already has Kawasaki cars in its subway system.
The Boston contract is for 28 double-decker cars. The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority already has 107 Kawasaki bi-level cars. With the new cars, Kawasaki cars will make up one-third of the Boston rail fleet.
Kawasaki will begin building the Boston cars next January, and the first of them will be shipped in December 2004.
Kawasaki Rail Car Inc. is owned by Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd. of Kobe, Japan. The Lincoln rail car plant opened in April 2002.
Kawasaki has had a factory since 1974 in Lincoln, where motorcycles, motorized watercraft, all-terrain vehicles and other products are made.
The company has more than 1,000 employees in Lincoln.
LOAD-DATE: August 26, 2003
What I didn't know about the R-160 was that LincolN was somehow involved. :-)
Bombardier did the latter. It affected quality control to a great extent.
No, you are wrong. The page DOES tell you this.
All of the individual "R-type" car class webpages on this website list the manufacturer or manufacturers of the subway cars under the column heading "manufacturer." In no case is a company that only "helped out" listed under the "manufacturer" column. As such, on the R-160 page, both Kawasaki and Alstom are listed as manufacturers, and by George, they both are!
I understand that, to MOST people, the INSIDE of the subway car, windows, signs and all ARE the subway car - but the *REAL* subway car is what's UNDER the floor. The remainder is JUST a box and seats. That Kawasaki got EVERYTHING of IMPORTANCE is the greatest of news! More 143's! Done right ... now that MTA's decided HOW they'll run (the 143's were delivered as "make up your mind and plug it in" ... the 160's will be *right* from the ground up. And Al D'Amato won TWICE! :-\
Additionally, a page never lists 2 companies for one order. Always splits them up into the cars built by each Co. So, it still didn't help.
That information is obviously not yet available. Once it is, I'm sure David will split them up. But for the time being, he just listed them together. So my theory still holds true.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Why would you think that the M-1s were not being replaced by the M-7s but the M-3s are?
I know the M3s are not being replaced by the M7s. Also, I've been told by several people that not all M1s are going to be replaced by the M7s.
UGH!
Interesting! When was this decided?
Mark
I thought it was also the M1s that weren't being replaced by the M7s.
By Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 15, 2004; Page B04
Federal officials said they would begin screening rail passengers at Maryland's New Carrollton station next month to test new security technologies for protecting the nation's rail system from a terrorist attack similar to last month's bombings in Madrid.
The Transportation Security Administration, which overhauled airline security at the nation's airports after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, said it will test a variety of screening technologies and methods to scan New Carrollton passengers and their luggage before they board Amtrak and MARC trains. At the station's Metro platform, passengers will not undergo security screening, but Metro officials said they would step up patrols by explosive-detection teams.
The TSA has not decided whether the security screening, scheduled to begin the first week of May, will be mandatory, according to sources familiar with the program.
Rail passengers would not have to remove their shoes or undergo pat-down searches, which happens often at airport checkpoints. But their luggage could be checked for explosives by bomb-sniffing dogs or new technologies, agency spokesman Mark Hatfield said.
"You have a different security environment than airports, and you are defending against a different threat -- largely explosives," Hatfield said. "We're not going to be worried about a pair of scissors on a train, but we will be concerned about guns and bombs."
TSA officials said they selected the New Carrollton station for the project because it has a variety of rail services and because it is convenient for officials from its Washington-based agency and the Department of Homeland Security to monitor.
Rail and transit officials have long called for security improvements, but it was only after the train bombings in Madrid on March 11 that Homeland Security officials announced firm plans to move ahead on screening passengers for explosives. In the bombings, terrorists detonated explosives hidden in backpacks and left on morning commuter trains and on tracks, killing about 200 people.
"We recognize the challenges of securing a system that is designed for public service and access, which is why we are implementing security programs to target the greatest risks and vulnerabilities," Homeland Security spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said.
Federal officials have acknowledged in news reports and in a confidential bulletin to law enforcement and transit authorities that the nation's rail systems are vulnerable to terrorist attacks. The nation's rail and transit systems are more difficult to protect because they involve multiple government entities, rail officials have said. They also point out that stations are built with numerous entrances and are designed to facilitate the quick movement of people.
TSA officials said the goal of the program, called Transit and Rail Inspection Pilot, is to test the effectiveness of new technologies, particularly outdoors, and to see whether the procedures would be too inconvenient for passengers.
© 2004 The Washington Post Company
Want FRIES with that $12 Halliburger on your military paycheck? :)
Never bash any tests. Tests prevent future mistakes.
AEM7
Minda ya, no offense intended but I'm getting a bit tired of all this rearranging of the deck chairs when the FBI and CIA *still* ain't talking to one another and there's NOBODY sitting at the borders watching who's coming in or out. Maybe I'd be in a better mood if those rumors of "tax cuts" were true - I just paid DOUBLE what I paid last year on less than HALF the income. :(
By Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 15, 2004; Page A01
After a year of exclusive and confidential negotiations, Virginia hopes to turn over to a private partnership the $4 billion project to build a rail line to Tysons Corner and Dulles International Airport.
It would be the first time a Metro segment was not built by the public transit agency. Virginia officials call it an innovative plan that would save tax dollars and set an example for other transit projects across the country. Opponents say it is a sole-source deal that would benefit Bechtel Corp. and Washington Group International, which entered into a partnership to build the rail line.
The stakes are high; the Dulles project is the third most expensive rail proposal in the country, surpassed only by two projects in Manhattan: a $17 billion plan to build a subway along Second Avenue and a $5.2 billion plan to extend the Long Island Rail Road from the East River to Grand Central station.
Metro officials are to discuss Virginia's unusual approach to the project this morning, when the state will ask them to agree to the deal with the partnership. Metro's consent is needed because it would ultimately own and operate the line. The state also wants Metro to act as a technical manager to make sure the project is compatible with the rest of the subway.
The project would extend Metrorail about 23 miles from West Falls Church to Dulles. The work would be done in two phases, with the first ending at Wiehle Avenue in Reston.
Although much of the recent public discussion about Dulles rail has focused on how local governments would pay their share, state officials have been holding confidential negotiations with Dulles Transit Partners since January 2003. There is no opportunity for public review until the deal is signed and becomes binding.
Dulles Transit Partners is made up of Bechtel and Washington Group. Until last month, the West Group, the largest landowner in Tysons Corner, was also in the partnership. The state has a draft agreement with Dulles Transit Partners for the firm to perform preliminary engineering but wants approval from the Federal Transit Administration before finalizing it.
Federal officials, who have never approved a similar deal, have been studying the plan for months and hired outside expertise to help. Federal Transit Administrator Jenna Dorn declined to comment for this article.
The Dulles deal would add to the number of Virginia transportation projects financed in part by the private sector. The state enacted the Public-Private Transportation Act in 1995 to get transportation projects built more quickly and efficiently and to encourage private investment.
Virginia is a leader among states in striking deals with companies to build road projects. Results have been mixed. One of the first projects, the Dulles Greenway, was built for $340 million by a private firm and has struggled financially since its 1995 opening. The Greenway has never made a profit, according to the General Accounting Office. But the state did not have to pay anything toward the cost of the 14-mile road and will eventually assume ownership. Motorists who use it can cut travel time by 50 percent, according to its developers.
"Virginia made a conscious decision in the '90s to go toward private participation. It was a political philosophy," said Steve Cohen, who co-wrote a recent study of public-private funding of transportation projects for the GAO. "Governor Warner embraced it and modified it, but it's something that has roots in the state. It's unusual."
Typically, a company pays for a road or other improvement and, in exchange, gets the right to collect toll revenue to pay back its costs and make a profit. The Dulles project differs because it is a transit project, and a private contractor would not be able to recoup costs and make a profit by collecting fares. In this case, the partnership agrees to build the project at a "firm, fixed price" that includes a built-in profit margin, said Karen Rae, director of the state's Department of Rail and Public Transportation.
"They agree to build the project on time and on budget," Rae said. "That's the risk that haunts most of these big projects."
In the Dulles case, the public would provide the money for the rail project. The federal government would pay 50 percent, and state and local governments would pay the rest. The local share would come from a special tax district in the Dulles corridor and the state's share from tolls paid by motorists who travel the Dulles Toll Road. The federal government has not decided whether to fund the project.
Every piece of the 28-year-old, 103-mile Metrorail system has been designed, built and operated by Metro. Typically, Metro applies for the federal construction funds on behalf of Virginia, Maryland and the District and then awards construction contracts to private contractors through competitive bidding. In every case, Metro has managed environmental permitting, legal issues, right-of-way acquisition, purchasing and construction.
Officials at the transit system have been unhappy that Virginia wants to hire a company to perform much of the work that Metro would normally do. Metro Assistant General Manager P. Takis Salpeas says he would be forced to lay off 55 people from the construction and engineering department as a result. Virginia wants to hire Metro as its technical consultant for the Dulles project, at a cost of about $11 million, but that is less than what Metro would have been paid had it been running the project.
Virginia officials say a private firm would be more accountable and more affordable and would share in the financial risk.
"What we have looked for, and insisted upon, is a deal that will be good for the taxpayers and a deal that is better than one that will be reached through conventional procurement methods," Virginia Transportation Secretary Whittington W. Clement said. The partners have agreed to perform preliminary engineering for about $48 million, 20 percent less than the $60 million that Metro estimated the work would cost, said sources close to the negotiations.
Opponents say the closed nature of the negotiations -- participants signed confidentiality pledges that prohibited them from talking -- coupled with the fact that Dulles Transit Partners is not facing competition for the contract, raise questions about whether the public interest is being served.
"The biggest fundamental issue is the lack of competition," said Bill Vincent, who runs a think tank that promotes bus rapid transit, an alternative to rail. "The best solution is to issue a request for proposals and get bids from several companies to come up with the best technical solution and best price."
Vincent said that Bechtel and Washington Group International are getting a sole-source contract and that the arrangement gives the appearance of a "pay to play" mentality in state government.
State officials and the Dulles Transit Partners said there was competition six years ago, when Virginia received two unsolicited proposals to build transit in the Dulles corridor. After the state selected one of the proposals and began discussions, the lines of competition blurred, with some players dropping out and others merging to form a partnership that became Dulles Transit Partners. That group submitted its current proposal in 2000.
Forrest "Frosty" Landon, executive director of the Virginia Coalition for Open Government, said it is worrisome that the state is negotiating privately to spend billions of tax dollars. "My biggest concern is that it can all be fait accompli before the public gets an opportunity to have input and hold the government accountable for how public money is spent," he said.
Vincent said that one problem with negotiating with one company is determining a fair price. "How do you know that's the best price when you don't have anything to compare it to?" he said. "As a taxpayer, how do I know this contract is in my best interest if there isn't another competing proposal? There's just no way to know."
Bechtel, he said, is involved in one of the worst examples of cost overruns in the country, Boston's Big Dig project. In partnership with Parsons Brinckerhoff, Bechtel was hired to build a harbor tunnel and highway beneath Boston streets for $2.5 billion, but the price escalated to $15 billion. This spring, Massachusetts filed suit over the costs against the two companies.
Washington Group International is an Idaho-based, global construction company that has been awarded more than $1 billion in reconstruction contracts in Iraq. Bechtel, with headquarters in San Francisco, is one of the world's largest engineering-construction companies, and the Bush administration has awarded it about $3 billion worth of reconstruction work in Iraq.
John G. Milliken, Bechtel's lobbyist and a spokesman for Dulles Transit Partners, is a former state transportation secretary and a longtime friend of Gov. Mark R. Warner (D). He led Warner's transition team as Warner was settling into Richmond. Milliken said he has been vigilant about keeping his work for Dulles Transit Partners separate from his relationship with Warner.
"I've been careful not to let my professional responsibilities to the project and whatever personal ties I may have interconnect," he said. "I've never talked with him personally about the merits of this project since he's been in office."
© 2004 The Washington Post Company
They should have upgraded service to LIC, installed a hi-speed ferry or another tramline and then used the savings to extend the N to LAG.
Mike, if you explain your reasonings as to why East Side Access is crap, the rest of us might listen up. Right now your saying it's crap is kind of like my saying "I'm God and you must believe in me to be saved". I actually think East Side Access will benefit a lot of commuter rail riders. So why is it crap?
AEM7
The complete graph system sucks, Hub N' Spoke Forever!
So, what's the problem with that? You're generating extra capacity, relieve crowded bottlenecks on your "hub-and-spoke" system, and creating public benefits in the process (reduced journey times for suburbanites). It looks like a great project (that the suburbanites should pay for).
AEM7
Such a connection would not be particularly useful. It would transport people across the water to docks on the east side that have poor access to Manhattan transit. It would also be excessively slow.
That said, I agree with you. ESA is a waste of money.
A quick number: Manhattan accounts for half of all the private sector earnings in New York State. Not the city. Not the region. The state. And that's just direct. Many global businesses outside Manhattan are located where they are because they want to be near, but do not need to be in, Manhattan. And local spending by commuters to Manhattan generates much of the remaining economic activity downstate. So the quality of access to Manhattan determines the value of residential property and the strength of the local economy among otherwise equal areas. Period.
Now the housing stock in Nassau, Suffolk, and eastern Queens is hitting 50 years old. It is occupied by aging descendents of those who were living in Brooklyn when ITS housing stock hit 50 years old. Recall the reaction? Flight, subdivision of housing, blockbusting, etc. It it were not for the state policy of making NYC's public schools underfunded and inferior and its local taxes higher, I don't know why anyone would be living way out there.
So these areas need that connection, and perhaps the Lower Manhattan connection to, to remain a competitive destination for those with Manhattan jobs. New Jersey is also looking for improved Manhattan access -- that's why Senator Corzine of New Jersey thinks that the second tunnel to Penn is priority #1.
I'll go along with letting them have it -- more access makes Manhattan itself and thus the city's tax break stronger. But I'm afraid the non-plan is for massive investment in the suburbs and not funding our most necessary investments like SAS. That would be an economic war similiar to the highways that drained the city's middle class 50 years ago.
They already have direct access to manhattan. If they MUST have the east side, then they DO NOT need to 'backtrack' as some suggest. Instead, they can take an E train. Think it's too slow? Build the [far cheaper] super express track for NYCT, and now we have something that's a huge boon for commuters both in and out of the city.
So these areas need that connection, and perhaps the Lower Manhattan connection to, to remain a competitive destination for those with Manhattan jobs. New Jersey is also looking for improved Manhattan access -- that's why Senator Corzine of New Jersey thinks that the second tunnel to Penn is priority #1.
If New Jersey wants a rail tunnel to manhattan, let them build it with their own money. There are already 3 such tunnels in existence. We don't need to fund another one, when we have much more pressing issues within our city.
5.2 billion simply to eliminate one transfer for LIRR riders is something that I believe is unnecessary. You can't say that it will generate new development. OTOH, there are areas of Queens and Brooklyn that could use new rail, and some of these areas could recieve it rather cheaply (LIRR Bay Ridge branch could help serve SE Brooklyn).
If we had that 5.2 billion, we could do the flushing extension, LGA access, and help build 2nd av. These are projects that have either lost funding, or are having some trouble getting it.
CG
That's a modest benefit, more than offset by making the Lex worse if the SAS is not built. If there are that many people on the E, perhaps the capacity of Hudson Terminal should be increased somehow, and the V should be routed there. New switches could allow the C to join the express tracks south of 59th.
Because they are due at work at 8:45, and the train in their particular town that will get them there at 8:45 happens to go to Grand Central Station, while the Atlatnic Avenue train will get them there at 8:20 (forcing them to leave much earlier) and the Penn Station train will get them there at 9:00.
Are you insane??? NYC needs yet another east river tunnel like you all need holes in the head, however NJT access to NYC is routed through the immense bottleneck of the North River tubes. Remember, we have 2, you will have 6 in 2010. Through this tube moves every bit of traffic that transits the east river tubes, minus the LIRR equipment fortunately. I'd be willing to bet that even with NJT moves to Sunnyside there is still more than 60% the traffic transiting the Hudson tubes that passes through the East River tubes.
If NYS is going to act like that big a bunch of assholes about it, then maybe NJ should fight back. Just don't build the tunnel, simply encourage more growth in NJ along the river. After all, NJ still has SOME money in our coffers, while NYS is flat broke. Say NJ dropped the tax rates in Newark, Jersey City, Bayonne, Secaucus, and other places. This would be accompanied by an agressive re-zoning process and dense transit network, so that new high rise offices could be constructed. Companies would flock to the new cheap buildings, leaving NYC real estate markets flatlined. Of course it's a hell of a lot cheaper to do business in the NJ area than it is just across the river, and it's also a hell of a lot easier to get people to and from the offices, thanks to Newark Penn Station, Secaucus Transfer and Hoboken Terminal. People would then buy houses in Dover and points west, not Hicksville and points east. Admittedly NYC has a staying power that NJ could not likely challenge, and there are institutions that'd never move in a million years. However there are most certainly enough companies in NYC looking to cut whatever money they can from their overhead that a move to NJ sounds like more than a good idea. NJ couldn't kill the NYC real estate market, but it could put a major hurting on it, enough to make Smallbany question paying for all the improvements that you claim could be made to NYC.
Finally, NYS better contribute some money to the new tunnels into NYP, or any plans that ARC had for bringing the PVL and Port Jervis branches into NYC are pretty much vapor ware. Why the hell should NJ people pay 100% of the cost of building a tunnel mainly to provide NY riders only passing through their state a one seat ride? That's an even bigger outrage than your bitching about the LIRR elimination of a two or three seat ride, at least there NYS wasn't raping or being raped by another state.
Oh well, just my tired 2 cents...
And no offense intended, just too tired to edit it out.
Typical New Yorker mentality could not imagine such a prospect. "Why would any company move to (ugh!) New Jersey just because it's far cheaper and more accessible? Here in New York, we've got art museums, we've got Broadway plays, we've got goor-may restaurants, we've got .... hey, what happened to all our jobs?"
If this plan would really work, it sounds like much more sensible one, than a new Hudson tunnel.
So the question is, why hasn't NJ done that?
Arti
Huh? I don't have schedules in front of me but there's not way there are as many NJT and Amtrak trains in revenue service through the Hudson tube as there are LIRR and Amtrak trains through the East River tubes.
Want FRIES with that $12 Halliburger on your military paycheck? :)
Never bash any tests. Tests prevent future mistakes.
AEM7
Minda ya, no offense intended but I'm getting a bit tired of all this rearranging of the deck chairs when the FBI and CIA *still* ain't talking to one another and there's NOBODY sitting at the borders watching who's coming in or out. Maybe I'd be in a better mood if those rumors of "tax cuts" were true - I just paid DOUBLE what I paid last year on less than HALF the income. :(
They should have upgraded service to LIC, installed a hi-speed ferry or another tramline and then used the savings to extend the N to LAG.
Mike, if you explain your reasonings as to why East Side Access is crap, the rest of us might listen up. Right now your saying it's crap is kind of like my saying "I'm God and you must believe in me to be saved". I actually think East Side Access will benefit a lot of commuter rail riders. So why is it crap?
AEM7
The complete graph system sucks, Hub N' Spoke Forever!
So, what's the problem with that? You're generating extra capacity, relieve crowded bottlenecks on your "hub-and-spoke" system, and creating public benefits in the process (reduced journey times for suburbanites). It looks like a great project (that the suburbanites should pay for).
AEM7
Such a connection would not be particularly useful. It would transport people across the water to docks on the east side that have poor access to Manhattan transit. It would also be excessively slow.
That said, I agree with you. ESA is a waste of money.
A quick number: Manhattan accounts for half of all the private sector earnings in New York State. Not the city. Not the region. The state. And that's just direct. Many global businesses outside Manhattan are located where they are because they want to be near, but do not need to be in, Manhattan. And local spending by commuters to Manhattan generates much of the remaining economic activity downstate. So the quality of access to Manhattan determines the value of residential property and the strength of the local economy among otherwise equal areas. Period.
Now the housing stock in Nassau, Suffolk, and eastern Queens is hitting 50 years old. It is occupied by aging descendents of those who were living in Brooklyn when ITS housing stock hit 50 years old. Recall the reaction? Flight, subdivision of housing, blockbusting, etc. It it were not for the state policy of making NYC's public schools underfunded and inferior and its local taxes higher, I don't know why anyone would be living way out there.
So these areas need that connection, and perhaps the Lower Manhattan connection to, to remain a competitive destination for those with Manhattan jobs. New Jersey is also looking for improved Manhattan access -- that's why Senator Corzine of New Jersey thinks that the second tunnel to Penn is priority #1.
I'll go along with letting them have it -- more access makes Manhattan itself and thus the city's tax break stronger. But I'm afraid the non-plan is for massive investment in the suburbs and not funding our most necessary investments like SAS. That would be an economic war similiar to the highways that drained the city's middle class 50 years ago.
They already have direct access to manhattan. If they MUST have the east side, then they DO NOT need to 'backtrack' as some suggest. Instead, they can take an E train. Think it's too slow? Build the [far cheaper] super express track for NYCT, and now we have something that's a huge boon for commuters both in and out of the city.
So these areas need that connection, and perhaps the Lower Manhattan connection to, to remain a competitive destination for those with Manhattan jobs. New Jersey is also looking for improved Manhattan access -- that's why Senator Corzine of New Jersey thinks that the second tunnel to Penn is priority #1.
If New Jersey wants a rail tunnel to manhattan, let them build it with their own money. There are already 3 such tunnels in existence. We don't need to fund another one, when we have much more pressing issues within our city.
5.2 billion simply to eliminate one transfer for LIRR riders is something that I believe is unnecessary. You can't say that it will generate new development. OTOH, there are areas of Queens and Brooklyn that could use new rail, and some of these areas could recieve it rather cheaply (LIRR Bay Ridge branch could help serve SE Brooklyn).
If we had that 5.2 billion, we could do the flushing extension, LGA access, and help build 2nd av. These are projects that have either lost funding, or are having some trouble getting it.
CG
That's a modest benefit, more than offset by making the Lex worse if the SAS is not built. If there are that many people on the E, perhaps the capacity of Hudson Terminal should be increased somehow, and the V should be routed there. New switches could allow the C to join the express tracks south of 59th.
Because they are due at work at 8:45, and the train in their particular town that will get them there at 8:45 happens to go to Grand Central Station, while the Atlatnic Avenue train will get them there at 8:20 (forcing them to leave much earlier) and the Penn Station train will get them there at 9:00.
Are you insane??? NYC needs yet another east river tunnel like you all need holes in the head, however NJT access to NYC is routed through the immense bottleneck of the North River tubes. Remember, we have 2, you will have 6 in 2010. Through this tube moves every bit of traffic that transits the east river tubes, minus the LIRR equipment fortunately. I'd be willing to bet that even with NJT moves to Sunnyside there is still more than 60% the traffic transiting the Hudson tubes that passes through the East River tubes.
If NYS is going to act like that big a bunch of assholes about it, then maybe NJ should fight back. Just don't build the tunnel, simply encourage more growth in NJ along the river. After all, NJ still has SOME money in our coffers, while NYS is flat broke. Say NJ dropped the tax rates in Newark, Jersey City, Bayonne, Secaucus, and other places. This would be accompanied by an agressive re-zoning process and dense transit network, so that new high rise offices could be constructed. Companies would flock to the new cheap buildings, leaving NYC real estate markets flatlined. Of course it's a hell of a lot cheaper to do business in the NJ area than it is just across the river, and it's also a hell of a lot easier to get people to and from the offices, thanks to Newark Penn Station, Secaucus Transfer and Hoboken Terminal. People would then buy houses in Dover and points west, not Hicksville and points east. Admittedly NYC has a staying power that NJ could not likely challenge, and there are institutions that'd never move in a million years. However there are most certainly enough companies in NYC looking to cut whatever money they can from their overhead that a move to NJ sounds like more than a good idea. NJ couldn't kill the NYC real estate market, but it could put a major hurting on it, enough to make Smallbany question paying for all the improvements that you claim could be made to NYC.
Finally, NYS better contribute some money to the new tunnels into NYP, or any plans that ARC had for bringing the PVL and Port Jervis branches into NYC are pretty much vapor ware. Why the hell should NJ people pay 100% of the cost of building a tunnel mainly to provide NY riders only passing through their state a one seat ride? That's an even bigger outrage than your bitching about the LIRR elimination of a two or three seat ride, at least there NYS wasn't raping or being raped by another state.
Oh well, just my tired 2 cents...
And no offense intended, just too tired to edit it out.
Typical New Yorker mentality could not imagine such a prospect. "Why would any company move to (ugh!) New Jersey just because it's far cheaper and more accessible? Here in New York, we've got art museums, we've got Broadway plays, we've got goor-may restaurants, we've got .... hey, what happened to all our jobs?"
If this plan would really work, it sounds like much more sensible one, than a new Hudson tunnel.
So the question is, why hasn't NJ done that?
Arti
Huh? I don't have schedules in front of me but there's not way there are as many NJT and Amtrak trains in revenue service through the Hudson tube as there are LIRR and Amtrak trains through the East River tubes.
Tony
Responding to some of the complaints I've heard expressed about the car design, I didn't find the seats narrow, but the ride was quite bumpy.
Here are the seats:
Here's the exterior of the car:
Yep, it's an M-7!
Or would you prefer to ride this LIRR car?
the truth and nothing more
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
So, are those running on that syracuse line also, or ya just threw em in for the hell of it?
Then I noticed that beautiful shot of M-7!!
Compliments on your photography!!
How was the line? What was it like? Were there many people on it?
Great pics, btw!
Nice pics David.
Good to see that On-Trak operations host clean cars, though.
Does anyone work for the museum because I really dont want a problem on Sunday....someone please help!!
Thanks
Chris
Peace,
ANDEE
Your pal,
Fred
Interesting CBTC/ATS information:
"NYC Transit will introduce two state-of-the-art technologies to meet these objectives: Communications-Based Train Control (CBTC) and Automatic Train Supervision (ATS). Under existing fixed-block signals, spacing between trains is predetermined to keep trains at a safe distance apart when they are operating at full speed. When train traffic is congested and running slowly, trains still must maintain the same separation, which in turn reduces the number of trains that can pass in a given time. With CBTC, or moving-block signals, trains communicate with each other to maintain a safe separation distance that varies according to their relative speeds. This will increase train throughput and improve flexibility of train operations while ensuring safe train operations.
Automatic Train Supervision will provide for centralized supervision and control of train movements. Under ATS, train location information will be transmitted from signal equipment along the right-of-way to a central location, and train routing commands will be transmitted back to the signal system. The ATS system will provide train identification and location information to a centralized command location. This will improve efficiency of normal operation and greatly enhance the ability to plan service during disruptions. A planned benefit of both of these systems is the provision of accurate real-time information on normal and modified service to our customers."
Here, it details the differences between CBTC and ATS. CBTC allows for a train's actual location to guide it's movements, allowing a far more efficient flow of trains. ATS merely utilizes existing signals. Most of you probably knew that.
The info continues:
"The agency will strategically apply these technologies. On lines equipped with newer fixed-block signals, ATS will be utilized to improve performance. On lines scheduled for signal replacement, CBTC will be utilized. Fixed-block signaling was brought to a state-of-good-repair by previous capital investments for the IRT (except the Flushing line), BMT (except the Canarsie line), and 27 percent of the IND lines, and thus do not require signal modernization work in the near future. For these lines, ATS will be implemented as an overlay to the existing signals, providing the central control and passenger information functionality. At the same time, the centralized Rail Control Center will be equipped with dispatcher consoles and the system’s central computer hardware and software. The normal replacement of the fixed-block signaling with CBTC signals will begin in the 2005-09 Capital Program, with lines prioritized based on signal age and the need for increased service capacity.
The remaining lines will be brought to a state-of-good-repair through CBTC signal installations that will include ATS functions. The pilot installation on the Canarsie line and follow-up on the Flushing line will develop, test and standardize the technology. These lines were selected for CBTC development because they are independent from other lines and use dedicated railcar fleets, minimizing the complexity of installation and impact on overall system operations. Afterwards, CBTC will be deployed on the remaining IND lines and complete state-of-good-repair signal work for the entire signal system. "
So, we're essentially looking at a prospect of no CBTC on the IRT mainline or BMT system anytime soon. Additionally, IND trackage with updated signals will also lack this technology (Concourse line was/is being resignalled, no?) Where would that be? Additionally, what lines are scheduled to recieve CBTC installation first on the 2005-9 Capitol Plan?
I guess trains are being equipped with computers able to operate on both ATS and CBTC track.
One more thing:
"The remaining lines will be brought to a state-of-good-repair through CBTC signal installations that will include ATS functions."
Someone was just accusing one of those NY papers for incorrect reporting when they said the L line was going automatic. Looks like that newspaper was right!
Used to be S.O.P. to see those little "AK" signs and USE them. Stop within ten feet of the train ahead, even FOLLOWING IT in the SAME BLOCK before the tripper behind it could come up. What HAPPENED to the TA? :(
Wouldn't it just be cheaper to hire ATTORNEYS as T/O's?
Lawsuits. If such an accident occurred, and it was discovered that it could have been prevented w/o key-bys, then hundreds of millions would be handed out like candy.
Could it be that today's t/o's are as reliable? Is management just more paranoid?
Probably has more to do with all those ads for Lawyers in the subway than anything T/O's do.
Could you imagine the field day that a lawyer would have in such an accident?
"So, mr. X, you mean to tell me that you allow, even encourage, a practice to override safety protocols?!?!"
NYCT would loose HUNDREDS of millions.
Keying-by signals to close up on the train ahead was prohibited in 1970, following a serious collision between two trains at Jay Street northbound. It has nothing to do with today's T/O's.
The rule is to operate the train at "Restricted Speed" and apparently all T/O's can't be trusted to do that reliably.
With the event recorders present on the 142/143 car classes, we could bring back key-by at will. Most T/O's could get a door into a station during big delays, operating their trains safely. The TA would have a way of knowing which T/O's operated unsafely by checking the event recorders.
I miss that manouevre, it gave one (especially a RFW railbuff) a sense of security and progress under the adverse conditions that ofen happen in the subways. It wasn't unusual to see a train move to within four feet of another, stuck in the station. Today, you can be a block away, stuck in the tunnel, (or bridge) under the same scenario. Sucks!!
I wonder where exactly the problem was that affected all three routes, and whether any E, F, or V trains were rerouted via Broadway or any A or C trains ran over the Manhattan Bridge. The crunch at W4 must have been horrific, with all A, C, E, F, and V trains converging on the local track.
(Incidentally, that answers your question. The massive merge wasn't until W4.)
A, B, C, D trains all merge at 59th.
I was on one of those trains.
DJF remembers the practiec being outlawed in 1970, yet I remember being told "key by" in the early part of 1971 ... I know the practice stopped recently afterwards, but don't remember anything about a Jay Street "incident" ... then again back in MY day, 59th managed to run a railroad rather well ... not like DeKalb ...
This is the function that Station Time performs already with the
existing fixed-block system. CBTC is not necessary to accomplish
this.
So, we're essentially looking at a prospect of no CBTC on the IRT mainline or BMT system
anytime soon.
That's probably a good thing. I look back at some of the
"new tech" signal equipment that was installed in the 1970s
through the 1990s. Within a decade, the current-generation
equipment is incompatible. PLC-based units installed 20-30
years ago for master tower projects are slated for replacement
because the spare parts are no longer available, and the
inter-PLC communications protocols are incompatible so it is
difficult to just drop in a modern replacement.
The prospect is much worse with CBTC, because you are introducing
an "interface" between the car and the signal system. The previous
interface, i.e. the shunt of an axle across the rails and a trip
arm striking the trip cock, was so simple that it remains compatible
100 years later. I could take a train of Hi-Vs onto the system
today and they would work correctly with the signal system, even
though the wayside equipment was manufactured just a few years
ago (e.g. White Plains Road).
NYCT is a complicated system, and unlike many other transit systems
which have more-or-less dedicated lines and dedicated fleets,
the car equipment can wind up on almost any line. I predict that
in 10 years, when we are ready to bring CBTC to the first non-isolated
line, that there will be some serious design drift versus the
generation-1 systems currently being installed in Canarsie.
And won't. The section you quoted from was demonstrating how ATS would use the existing signal system.
That's probably a good thing. I look back at some of the
"new tech" signal equipment that was installed in the 1970s
through the 1990s. Within a decade, the current-generation
equipment is incompatible. PLC-based units installed 20-30
years ago for master tower projects are slated for replacement
because the spare parts are no longer available, and the
inter-PLC communications protocols are incompatible so it is
difficult to just drop in a modern replacement.
If that were the case, we'd not have high speed internet!
In fact, if you think that an old system should never be upgraded, then we'd not have the internet period!
The prospect is much worse with CBTC, because you are introducing
an "interface" between the car and the signal system. The previous
interface, i.e. the shunt of an axle across the rails and a trip
arm striking the trip cock, was so simple that it remains compatible
100 years later. I could take a train of Hi-Vs onto the system
today and they would work correctly with the signal system, even
though the wayside equipment was manufactured just a few years
ago (e.g. White Plains Road).
NYCT is a complicated system, and unlike many other transit systems
which have more-or-less dedicated lines and dedicated fleets,
the car equipment can wind up on almost any line. I predict that
in 10 years, when we are ready to bring CBTC to the first non-isolated
line, that there will be some serious design drift versus the
generation-1 systems currently being installed in Canarsie.
You have a good point, but make a bad comparison. You're saying that CBTC will be changed from future versions, making existing versions incompatible (I don't necessarily agree with that though). But that would involve changing the existing system. Had NYCT found a better system for stopping trains, then that too would be incompatible with old cars, much like the 2 forms of CBTC would be different.
Quoting a quote, I have no idea what section it was originally
from, but it certainly seemed to be saying that CBTC is necessary
to get closer spacing of trains.
In fact, if you think that an old system should never be upgraded, then we'd not have the internet period!
That's a mixed-fruit comparison. The internet is not a life safety
critical system.
You have a good point, but make a bad comparison. You're saying that CBTC will be changed from future
versions, making existing versions incompatible (I don't necessarily agree with that though). But that
would involve changing the existing system. Had NYCT found a better system for stopping trains, then
that too would be incompatible with old cars, much like the 2 forms of CBTC would be different.
Not the point. Clearly any system that requires car-borne equipment
other than a trip cock is going to require that equipment to be
added to the cars. How often will that equipment need to be
changed? Alternative systems (such as ASC with coded track
circuits) have a proven record of it being possible to upgrade
car-borne equipment vs wayside equipment independently, using
competitve vendors, and still maintain full interoperability.
It is also possible to overlay ATO features on this technology
in such a way that the ATO works correctly where it is installed
wayside, and otherwise the system reverts to manual ASC operation.
This is the sort of technology that was planned for the SAS in
the 1970s, and was installed on the R-44 and R-46 orders.
AFAIK its not the same equipment.
ATS is something like a transponder, possibly interfaced to the train network on a new-tech train. ATS transponders do not need to stay in constant contact. And ATS transponders could be retrofitted onto R-32's for example.
CBTC is a complete subsystem which interfaces to propulsion & braking to take contol the the vehicle. CBTC must be in constant contact with the wayside zone controllers, so the RF installation is "thicker"
An interesting question is whether CBTC can "plug in" to the ATO provisions already present on the R-44/R-46.
I'd say the answer to that is "no," since the ATO equipment was removed from those cars years ago (during GOH for the R-46s, before GOH for the R-44s).
David
Not surprising, but I wonder if the goes-intos and gets-outtas are still there in the control circuits. It wouldn't be "plug-n-play" but the next time they are GOH'd they might wire in the next generation ATO.
Just a pie-in-the-sky theory anyhow.
Jeff H, comment?
This was WABCO's brake designation for R-10 through R-38 cars,
whereupon they updated the equipment and called it RT-1 (and
later RT-2). NYAB made NewTRAN. All of these systems were
"plug-compatible" with SMEE in using a 110# brake pipe, a
0-90# straight air pipe, etc.
That's a canard because it does not take stopping at stations into account. While a train is stopped in a station, the next train will be stopped about 100 feet behind the end car, because the existing block system permits such a close approach. CBTC systems require about the same safety margin. The follower will come to a full stop in the station at about the same time, whether it is using the current block system or using CBTC with or without ATO.
The third train out may be stopped 500 feet behind the second train out, making it 1200 feet from the station entrance. It's really unimportant if this were reduced to 800 feet from the station under CBTC. That third train will get an opportunity to stop 100 feet short of the station, during the second train's dwell time within the station. It may be faster to getting 100 feet from the station under CBTC but who cares.
Another op... for SOME reason, the "A" train that left FTC around 5:20 PM decided to stop at Somerset... weird.
Nothing REALLY new on the BSL... they've added a trailing point crossover between the two EXPRESS tracks just after the curve north of Olney Terminal is cleared (the tunnel under Grange Street), and Erie Station is shaping up to look roughly like Tasker-Morris in terms of platform design. They have done work on the north end platforms, and appear to be going south... no new signs yet.
No sign of platform, sign, or light rehab at Race-Vine, nor a sign of them reopening the Race Street mezzanine for entry (it's exit only now). Spring Garden has had its walls painted white from the old cream color (a la Girard a few years back), but not the ceiling. 30th Street Station (MFL/Subway-Surface) still has it's elevators inactive. It looks as if SEPTA may be adding an elevator at 40th Street, and quite possibly at Erie as well (they've raised the platform in spots to allow easier wheelchair access). Oregon Station has had fare control relocated to the headhouse on the NORTHEAST corner of Broad & Oregon, where the westbound G, 7, and 68 board... supposedly, the southeast corner is getting an elevator installed. Construction moves along at 13th Street Station for the elevators assumedly to be located on the SE corner, near the weekend exit to 1234 Market Street (the one that's NOT directly outside fare control, but instead requires you to go outside first).
Peace,
ANDEE
His brother was Paul O'D., City Council President in the 1970s and the one who made the current "Avocate" position possible in today's city government.
Peace,
ANDEE
Nowadays, "upstate" really begins when you get north of Hudson in Columbia county. Sheesh. The view from up here is that DUTCHESS is now part of the "greater NY area" ...
Peace,
ANDEE
That's from NY Noseday. It's a LI based newspaper. So anything north of South Ferry is considered upstate.
Bill "Newkirk"
But the "Let's get the hourlies" *REALLY* honks me off (as I wasted bandwidth on elsewhere here, so no repate) ... what about their POLITICAL APPOINTEE WIGS? Nope. Newsday would NEVER pay attention to the Paturkey Farm. Morons. "Ministry of Truth." Goehring would be pleased. :(
$4000. Sheesh. BRUNO costs 5! And that's ONLY a happy meal. For the $5,000, you get an "audience" with the Bruno where he sits and discusses "table manners" in the Fort Orange Club ... yeah, we spent the money, we bought a "ho" ... and we got stiffed ANYWAY because $5,000 isn't ENOUGH ... we had to move to TROY or we'd get scrood. Bruno spoke the TRUTH! $4000 stolen? *HA!!!!*
State's stolen MANY thousands from us since ... Meanwhile, Newsday remains selling Potato Islanders that a few hourlies partying like their bosses is a SERIOUS problem, but the lawgivers who INSPIRE them are exempt ... once again, forgive me, but I've just seen ENOUGH qwap ... just SHOOT my ass, I'm done, ENOUGH ... :)
On THIS side of the river, you can almost count Monticello..even LIBERTY...and south
as being 'part of the area'-the number of folks who drive down from Sullivan to Middletown to catch a train/bus/car pool is amazing...Dutchess has ben officially been part of the NY SMSA [thats Standard Metropolitain Statistical Area,by the way...] for quite a long time,longer than Orange/Ulster,mostly because of the Hudson Line one seat ride into GCT.
But yeah, it's amusing ... and JUST to make you feel a WEE bit better ... Saratoga county is expanding out the wazoo lately ... with EX-LUNG Gislanders! Hahahahahahahahaha ... they come up ... to SARATOGA ... only to drink water with more radium and uranium in it than in freaking BROOKHAVEN ... hahahahahahaha ... "upstate" ... "BRUNO country, where a developer pays Bruno $5k and *instantly* NEWSDAZE turns it into "gotta have" ... MAN ... I grew up with the FUSCOS and the GALLOS and the GAMBINOS ... hahahahahaha ...
But YEAH, when the Tappan Zee is "rebuilt" to move the former Erie Lackamoney over and into Westchester, look out ... "upstate" will be COXSACKIE on THIS side of da river. :(
Ignoring the fact that this is probably just a scheme to replace hi-paid senior employees with new hires, why didn't MNRR just tweak it's time tracking protocol so thwart abuse?
The Flushing line (which is already so insanely busy, it's the ONLY line with 11 cars) "customers" would be DELIRIOUSLY happy, they'd be able to get pretty much anywhere without having to change for something else - the USELESS N/W (I realize it carries some customers, but look at the intervals fer krimminy's sake, says it all) would go to Times Square and the maze and folks on the BUSY line would be VERY happy. Less crowding and trains spaced a little bit saner (since B division carriages can carry a LOT more folks) so that if a train spit the bit, the whole railroad wouldn't be backed up to Newfoundland. :)
As convict Martha Stewart would say, "it's a GOOD thing" ... of course, the politically connected up and down 31st Street would be crying in their Ouzo ... but then, the city transit system was never known for making WISE choices - tradition to maintain and all. (grin)
The real "what if" question would probably be what if the IRT didn't have the STeinway tubes available to it? In the end, if that happened, it is likely that when the 2nd Ave el was abandoned, the Flushing line and the Astoria line may today be connected to the 60th St tube (and boy would the 63rd St tunnel have been needed much sooner). There's nothing wrong with the Flushing Line that it couldn't actually handle BMT sized cars other than the fact that operationally, it was not done, because physically it can handle the wider cars.
Ooops, you know what I mean, now which had do I write with.....Astoria on the left....Flushing on the right....ooops!
Had they kept the SOUTH portion of the original plant lit, they would have had more options. And I *don't* buy into the excuse of "left brain, right brain" ... history says that the original POLISH neighborhoods of Astoria had the political connections "way back when" to convince the dummycraps in power to serve THEM instead of the "distant crowd" in the more republican "farmlands and swamps" out east. The stone was cast over 60 years ago. Then, JUST as now, it's ALL about POLICICS ... the MINORITY railroad got the golden goose while the "auslanders" got bupkiss ...
A *reasonable* government would rule in favor of the larger number of people who would benefit rather than being parochial and sucking asp. Alas, it's ALL about power when it comes to the political things that influence our personal lives, even today. It's not a question of "what is the RIGHT thing to do? What would JESUS decide?" ... nope ... it's all about WHO gave WHICH politico the MOST cash without asking for a receipt. When it comes to the government YOU pay taxes for, the bottom line from ANY politico is "HOW much did you give my campaign? HOW much? Hahahahahah ... bite me, NOT enough" ... :(
But if SERVING THE PEOPLE were TRULY what "politics" were about (silly me, I *believed* that was my function as a Civil Servant [bitch-slaps self with baby powder]) then the Flushing line WOULD be connected to a REAL railroad, and Astoria WOULD go to TSQ ... hell - there's a SHUTTLE, the 7 line under Manhattan *is* redundant and could be CUT were it not for the use to Flushing) ... waste of car equipment. Seriously. Aside from the sausage crafters.
They took OUT the original Queens Plaza structure and ran the BMT feed under the river WAY the phuck over ... for ALL the steelwork required to reroute the R, W, N ... (what IS it these days? Heh) they could have JUST as easily thrown the IRT over to the north end (DeKalb rebuild? Manny B rebuild? CHRYSTIE? sheesh) and sent the BMT over a DIFFERENT GRADE to hit the south side of the station we know today ... NOPE ... ***ALL*** about POLITICS ... then and now. :(
Unca Kevin - when you consider the amount of people who get off MetroNorth at GC and then shuttle across to Times Sq during the rush hour you would know that the #7 in Manhattan is not redundent. Service is provided where it is needed and in the case of the 42nd St area IT IS NEEDED. Even back in the "old days" the passenger traffic going across town has always been extreme. One line or the other by itself could never properly handle the load.
"for ALL the steelwork required to reroute the R, W, N ... (what IS it these days? Heh) "
Just the N & W.
The ONE thing I never got was the lack of some line connecting Penn and GCT directly. THAT would have been useful. Still, the folks coming in from Queens obviously need a bit more than the IRT can provide given the perennial conga line out there ...
That surprises me too, especially when Grand Central had long distance trains, but still true today. The 42nd Street Shuttle would not seem quite as redundant if it was the Grand Central - Penn Station shuttle.
That'd be an interesting solution and probably FAR cheaper than deep boring ...
7 Astoria-Times Sq
N Main St-CI (peak express when W is running)
W Main St-Whitehall
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Distant future - none of them.
Why? Because people need to get around and the subway is the best way to do it.
-all the els in Manhattan;
-3rd Av el Bronx (#8, 1973);
-Myrtle Av El.
Okay, we've seen the surrection of a complete subway system in return, but there were times when NY trains were running to more places than they do now.
:-) Andrew
but there were times when NY trains were running to more places than they do now.
Aside from the Fulton el (which was duplicated and removed in a different age of competition), none of the dual Contracts subway standards els were removed.
The Polo Grounds Shuttle, which was a new section of el built between the 9th Avenue El terminal and the Jerome Avenue Line, was built during the Dual Contracts era. Also, I believe that the northern-most section of the Third Avenue El was built in the Dual Contracts era.
There were also sections of subway built AFTER that that are no longer in use, such as IND World's Fair Spur (which was ripped out completely), and the IND Court Street Spur.
And which, of course, was never intended to be permanent.
About all I could imagine right now is termination of the skip-stop service on the 1/9 with the consequent dropping of the 9 designation. As discussed here recently, the time savings from the skip-stop service are minimal.
Any other line/route terminations would presuppose major changes in development or commuting patterns that cannot now be foreseen.
And let's not forget what happened not too many years ago with the plan to close the then-decrepit Franklin Shuttle. There was a big community outcry, which at least in part is why the line was rebuilt rather than closed. I have no doubt that any future plans to close a line, or even a station, will engender a great deal of controversy.
How true. Even though it was scarcely used, with fewer than 100 fares collected per day, its closing stirred up quite a bit of controversy.
Also, for anyone who wants to see, I've gotten word that the first stone train of the year will be passing Mineola tomarrow morning. I will be there around 8:45AM just to make sure I see it, but am still waiting to hear if it is definate and around what time it will pass. The sun should be at a perfect angle for pictures of the train which will be heading eastbound.
The meeting place will be on the pedestrian walkway at Nassau Tower(Mineola station). The walking part will begin at 10:30AM(stone train or no stone train).
I've walked this before and it is a very interesting walk. Definately a lot of fun. Bring w/e you want and some good walking shoes(anyone who has a scanner, please bring it).
Anyone going please respond with what time ya plan on being there.
I always wanted to walk the old MF line, where is it from mineola anyways?
Where is it, meaning, how far? At most 2 miles. We will be walking from Mineola to where the Mineola-West Hempstead ROW meets the secondary(hempstead crossing I believe was the station).
I think it'll be a total of 4.5 miles of walking(Mineola to Mitchell Field). Hopefully we can then double back(we have to double back to atleast Quentin Roosevelt BLVD) and walk the industrial spur near the DMV. From there we can get the bus back to Mineola.
Will you be arranging another walking tour of the part later on?
I want to do the rest of the former central between the Meadowbrook Parkway and B Tower one day though, and we'd probably just start at Mitchell Field for the hell of it.
And yeah I wanted to also goto the other place. But :/
No way maybe next month we can arrange another walk tour for the MF area, because I cant make tomorrow, and I really want to goto the MF part, not to meantion I dont know how to get there personally from Mineola station.
Hopefully we'll have another one soon.
Went to Mineola this morn with a friend(Dr Funk), got there round 10:00. Saw some trains go bye. 10:30 comes and goes, no one shows. Decided to wait til 10:50 cuz Mike F emailed me saying he's definately comming. He shows up and we start walkin.
Turns out I'm not the only one who understands just how simple it'd be to relay the track between Old Country Rd and Country Life Press. Basically, between Mineola and Old Country Rd(bout one block), the ROW is blocked by a building. Have the line be underground there(either way it'd have to be in order to avoid trains from OB going to Far Rock from crossing the mainline if they were to restart that service).
Old Country Rd to 11th Av is all parking lots that I've never seen cars in
11th Av to the secondary is all clear, just a dirt path with some trees on the side. Was this line 2 tracks, cuz it definately seems wide enough.
Walked St James St North to Washington b/c the secondary has live 3rd rail til Washington Av. At Washington Av, the old trolley platform is still there(this thing is about 3 feet long. You couldn't even fit a LIB bus shelter on it).
Washington Av to Clinton, quite a few new ties in place. The dirt was all turned up. I guess this was prep work for the circus train?
Clinton Rd to Quentin Roosevelt BLVD(old Garden City yard at now severed Stewart Av crossing). This whole section is lined with about 25-30 hoppers and 2 flatbed cars broken into 3 sections on the south track. These flatbed cars had rails that were welded to the top of the car. I guess this is used for shipping rail equipment??? They seemed to have a fairly new coat of brownish paint. The last 5 cars were those Norfolk Southern hoppers. I'm still confused as to why on earth they are here. Oh, and at the Clinton Rd side, the first hopper(last on the train when they were brought in) still has the red flag on the coupler....hmmm, to take or not to take? Decided not to, regret it now though, lol.
Also walked that small industrial spur that doubles back through the bus facility to that pasta or w/e place and some other industries. The Oak St crossing has been removed, not just paved over, removed. Friends of 35 still has their stuff there(2 cabooses, 2 P72s or P75s, and the boxcar).
The yard there at Quentin Roosevelt and Stewart is all torn up except for the 1st yard track and the secondary's track. I think the yard was 3 or 4 tracks and then the 2 tracks on the secondary that now merge into one just before crossing Quentin Roosevelt BLVD
Quentin Roosevelt BLVD to Mitchell Field. This was my first time on this section. This definately had to have been 2 tracks at one point b/c it is simply too wide not to have been. The south track is still there. We walked to a point just east of the post office truck entrance where I saw a rail poking out through the brush. It wasn't connected by a switch or anything, it was just there. We walked to a crossing about 15 feet later and realized it was the Mitchell Field spur that we were looking for(for those who don't know, trains from the west would have to pass the spur, then back onto it).
Mitchell Field Spur. The first section between the secondary and the second grade crossing is one track with the track still in tact. After crossing that 2nd grade crossing, if you look down and turn around, you can see that there was another track that simply went straight as if it used to intersect the secondary. Turns out this was the siding for the coal silos(which are no longer there).
After that 2nd grade crossing, as we continue once again south toward where 35 used to be, the tracks are paved over, with a section of a switch poking out still. You can easily see where the track is beneath the pavement(hard to explain, but most of you know what I mean). After the 3rd grade crossing(btw, all these grade crossings on this spur are lightly used service roads) the tracks once again show themselves. This is where the high level freight platform is. On the track on the west side(platform side), there is all old trailers, a fork lift, and yes, still the front of an what I believe is an F unit. The trailers and forklift have keystones painted on reading 35.
All of a sudden, BMTman and Thurston show up. We sit for a while and talk(while I get a call from Joe(emfinate) that he is stuck on a rollercoaster at six flags. Hey Joe, ya still up there!? lol). While all of the secondary is great, Mitchell Field really is like a trip in its own. The 2 tracks end just north of Charles Lindbergh BLVD(atleast I think, didn't walk down that far, but didn't see any tracks past there).
From there, BMTman and Thurston went off, and Mike F, Paul(Dr Funk), and I walked back to Quentin Roosevelt BLVD. We then walked the industrial spur(which still, to Paul and I, seems so logical that it'd be the Roosevelt Raceway spur, but JJ Earl on Railroad.net says it's not).
This spur is the same as it was when I last walked it before winter(one week before the original trip was supposed to happen). The Stewart Av crossing is still severed(still a bummer). We walked over the Meadowbrook Parkway(always fun). We checked out the old spur at what is now Lowes. Then went on to play a game of Russian Roulette with Zeckendorf BLVD. About 10 feet north of Zeckendorf, the spur becomes to tracks, which JJ says was for a bypass, which makes sense. This section is still covered with debris and mini trees. (Thanks for the heads up about this spot Sir Ray! Tried to keep tresspassing in this area to a minimum, but I don't think it was a successful attemp, lol).
The track becomes single track again, curves, then crosses East Gate Rd. From there, it goes onto a now heavily tree covered stip the length of the parking lot. You can still see the rails there. Once we reached the end of the parking lot where the tracks end(atleast as far as the eye can see), we looked on toward Zeckendorf BLVD(this street curves north to meet Old Country Rd). I then realized that I may start believing JJ b/c Zeckendorf BLVD is really high up. I couldn't see an underpass for where the tracks would've gone. Still wanna go check that area out.
Got an N22 Jamaica bus back to Mineola. Mike went for his car while Paul and I got onto an N23 Manorhaven about to leave.
All in all, an increadible trip! Got lots of photos, but wish I had taken even more. All yall definately missed some real cool stuff.
Next walking trip will be From Mitchell Field spur area all the way to B tower. Hope it's as good as this was. Not sure when this will be, but I'll post earlier than I posted about this.
Oh, oh, somebody trespassed onto Cendant property. Well, at least you should have seen the (former) loading facililties for the Chemical plant at that point. If you had gone on the hill on Zeckendorf and looked West along the sput I think you'd see what I mean.
You know, in the many years I worked at Cendant, no one could ever tell me if they ever unloaded new vehicle (automobiles) via rail car there (they do unload new cars from car carrier trucks nowadays, couple of dozen autos at a time - then the new autos/suvs get driven out to local rental stations).
I guess you didn't check out the abandoned trestle in the brush by the Meadowbrook. I checked it out and it's still there.
I did so by car, traveling east on what should be Stewart Ave. and entering the northbound Meadowbrook entrance cloverleaf. I pulled off onto the grass and looking west, there's a bunch of trees and what looks like a hill or embankment. The trestle underneath is filled with dirt, so from a distance, it looks like a hill.
That trestle, built in the 1920's is a part of the old "Central". Don't wait too long, because foliage may obscure it making it difficult for photographs. The trestle is one track wide.
Bill "Newkirk"
I guess you'll walk through Eisenhower Park to follow the ROW ? Some big time walking involved through East Meadow, Levittown and Bethpage.
Near B tower you'll see an old freight track which was for the old GM parts depot warehouse. The switch was taken out years ago.
A friend of mine who told me a while ago there was a part of the ROW that he saw a section of rail in the dirt. Keep your eyes open, I doubt anyone would steal a section of old rail.
Bill "Newkirk"
Did he say if it was in Eisenhower Park or east of the park? I'll definately keep an eye out for it.
I believe in the Levittown area.
Bill "Newkirk"
If you go to the bottom of this page you'll see the Meadowbrook Station which was used for Roosevelt Raceway. Notice the third rail!!! Remember, Roosevelt opened in the 40's so wasn't served by the LIRR for too long. I happen to remember in the 60's and 70's when that service was long gone there was shuttle bus service from Mineola Station to the Raceway. That service was I believe by Schneck Transit, one of the bus companies that was replaced by MSBA. The line that crossed Stewart was always strictly freight, never passenger.
Did you check out the trestle next to the Meadowbrook Pkway just s/o Stewart? It is still there.
See, it wouldn't have been that terrible if I was your mailman! :)
I have great respect for JJ Earl, so I do believe him. Now with what you've said, it just gives me more reason to believe you both.
Schneck Transit....what now LIB routes were they?
If I remember correctly they were mostly the Northern routes on Hillside Av, Jericho, and Northern Blvds, like the N20. I don't think they ever went to the old Hempstead Bus Terminal. Schenck also supplied the Belmont & Aqueduct parking lot shuttle buses.
Here are some of the others I remember:
The Bee Line-They had most of the Jamaica routes like the present day N6. They also had routes from Valley Stream and Freeport to Jamaica. Instead of using the Hemp Bus Terminal like the present day N6 they began on Little Main Street, a continuation of present day Main Street s/o Front, went through a bumpy parking lot to Franklin and up to the Telephone Co. Bldg.Hempstead Bus Company-They had the Front Street routes such as the 47, 48, & 49 and some routes from Hemp to Freeport & Baldwin.Jerusalem Av Bus Lines- The company that became Harran Transportation, the buses that go to Atlantic City. They were brown buses with old style GM's that had no rear door. They had the routes from Hempstead down Jerusalem Avenue East. They also had the Jones Beach Buses. Stagecoach Lines-White colored buses that had the routes from Hempstead E/O Hempstead Tnpk such as the present day 70, 71, & 72.Hendrickson Bus Company- Can't remember where they went but they had the last two stalls in the Hempstead Terminal. There were a few other bus companies in Nassau which I cannot remember at this time!!!
Thanks in advance.
-The #1 best view of Atlanta's skyline can be seen from the East Line bewteen Georgia State station and King Memorial.
-Peachtree Center station is considered one of the most beautiful stations in the world with its exposed bedrock and high ceilings.
-Unlike NYCT, the system is fast. Going northbound past Arts Center, you get close to 70 mph.
-All of the stations are unique and have a style all to their own, it's not like WMATA where if you've seen one station you've seen them all.
-There is an animated tunnel ad in the northbound tunnel between Sandy Springs and Dunwoody station. This was the first such ad in the country when it was installed a few years ago. The ride up there is in a freeway median.
-The East line flies over the rail yards at Avondale, so you get a great view of that
-Civic Center is one of only a couple stations in the world that is under street level but is elevated over a freeway.
Check out the Atlanta section of nycsubway.org to see other things about the system.
The peachtree center station is a nice trip up the escalator - for me that escalator takes almost as long as my train ride!!!!
i am pissed off that they are back to mostly 4 car trains -- what happened to the 6 cars!
The reason for going back to four cars is that ridership has taken a beating since last year because of the major service cuts that happened last year. MARTA is also broke. Next year might even be worse since they are planning even more cuts. It's definately dark days for MARTA right now. :-(
It is, Peachtree Center will be your "home" station. Are you flying in? If so, you should definately use MARTA to get downtown from the airport and back. It's hands down the best subway-airport connection in the country. You should be able to get some railfanning in during that time.
-SEPTA R8 Fox Chase, Ryers to Market East
-PATCO, 8th and Market to Broadway/WR TC
-River Line from WR TC to Trenton
-NJT from Trenton to Rahway
-NJT from Rahway to Aberdeen-Matawan
Then I will be going to my aunt's house for a party dinner Saturday night. Sunday I will venture on to NYC.
-NJT from Aberdeen-Matawan to Newark Penn
-PATH from Newark Penn to WTC
-"E" train from WTC to Times Square
-"7" train from Times Squ. to 5th Av.
-"F" train from 42nd St. to Roosevelt Island
-->Eat lunch at Trellis!
-"F" train to Jackson Hts./Roosevelt
-"7" train to 42nd St./Times Sq.
-->Then I will try to fit in the car show.
-Walk back to NYP
-NJT from NYP to Trenton
-SEPTA R7 from Trenton to North Philadelphia
-SEPTA R8 back to Fox Chase.
That will be one hell of a trip! Any suggestions of any other routes to ride in NY/NJ?
Are you taking any trips this weekend, just curious!
Your pal,
Fred
Chuck Greene
Keep your eyes on Pavonia Yard, between 36th Street and Walter Rand TC. Jersey Central GP7 #1523 (built 1952 for CNJ) was there on Friday on its way to the Cape May Seashore Lines. Speculation suggests that it will be there until Monday.
Bob
Upon returning to 30th Street Station late Saturday night, I'll take the Market Street subway to 8th and take PATCO back to Collingswood.
I just got an e-mail from NYCTA advertising some recently-removed signs for sale. Anyone interested can check it out, or look at the other lots available, including many old tokens.
Mark
At least they could have washed the pigeon crap off the sign before selling it!
I may buy one myself in fact. But how to suspend them? Screws or the vertical bars?
John
$50 for a real subway sign? $30 or $40 might be reasonable, but hey this is New York and everything is always more expensive.
Thanks,
flushing7
more details as soon as something is known.
Where are you getting this from?
I was stuck in this mess on the way to Penn this afternoon - cost me over half an hour...
Wow, a HALF hour. The only thing worse than that is a WHOLE hour.
And to think that people spent hours stuck in elevators on August 14, 2003. They had it easy.
The fact is, paranoia (shutting down train lines and airports at the drop of a hat - literally - etc.) in the long run will do far more damage to the infrastructure, in terms of time and money lost, than letting a few bombs go off ever will. How many wasted half hours does it take to add up to an entire lifetime of time wasted in diversions that prove to be over nothing?
Right now, al Qaeda's most fruitful strategy would be to make repeated threats against all kinds of facilities, with no intention of ever carrying them out. Every closure, every diversion, every re-screening of thousands of passengers, every indefinite detention, without any result other than a big "False alarm, nothing to see here, sorry for the inconvenience" from the officials wastes more time and money (not to mention resources that were prevented from accomplishing more fruitful tasks such as fighting violent crime or sending emergency personnel to those who need fire or medical assistance, resulting in a tremendous opportunity cost that will include the deaths of many innocent people as a result), and further erodes our national morale. When we start ignoring these warnings (at the behest of a screaming public who demands that we not pay attention to such "chatter" and waste our time and money), then they strike once, and everybody (meaning the same people who said we should ignore the warnings) pisses and moans about why the government (who's supposed to protect us against all evil) ignored the warnings. And the cycle starts anew with many more false alarms, etc.
And I'm *much* more fearful of the government turning this country more and more into a police state (indefinite detentions without charge, wiretaps and search and seizure without probably cause, tying the hands of the judiciary as an independent check of the goings on of the executive branch, lying government officials never held accountable for lies that result in Americans dying, vital information about such withheld for "national security" reasons, etc.) than I ever was of bin Laden and his geeks.
*sits back and prepares to be flamed*
Well said. I couldn't agree more.
We HAVE an administration in power that SELLS FEAR ... and the campaign ads only FURTHER this whole "vote for Bush or you're going to have your stomach roasted in hell." :(
The raising and lowering of the yellow over orange homeball with the trip arm coming up without warning has been an (unnecessary) hallmark of this administration. Folks like John who have more concerns than many are probably just flipping OUT over all this "YOU are going to die" silliness.
I say this because a TRUE leadership who has a clue would be saying something MORE along the lines of "there is NOTHING to fear but fear itself, to LIVE in fear is to allow the terrorists to win and WE are going to make certain that our TROOPS, our COPS and first responders everywhere to have the CRITICAL tools to protect *US* even if we have to give up a tax cut to PAY for it."
Fact: There is NO "inspiration" from our "leaadership," there is no GUIDANCE as to what the average citizen can do to BE involved (those of us who live UPSTATE know what "MUTUAL AID" is) and beyond that, INSPIRING the public with "we ARWE taking care of it" and "there is nothing to fear but fear itself, JUST what the terrorists want" ...
Instead, we're being treated to "vote for ME or die." :(
As someone who can WELL take care of themselves, their loved ones AND their neighbors, I am APPALLED that a government whose duty is to "defend the weak" is actually CONTRIBUTING to John's situation. Do I agree with him over the necessity of responding officers to determine "friend or foe?" Certainly not ... but one cannot blame the victims of the agita when our leaders should be doing their part to REASSURE and to ENSURE that terrorist acts are unlikely to affect the individual. Here, they've failed at the task miserably for partisan gain. I consider this administration to be as worthy as spammers on this point. :(
As Robin Williams said in "Moscow on the Hudson," "SOME day, the balls of our leaders will hang in a museum and we will be able to say 'THERE! THERE are the balls of our leaders!'" :(
One - Not everyone feels that way. They want to know that the government is on the alert. They want the government to react to every potential threat or perceived threat. They want to be informed about every change in terror alert status. Their rights are at least equal to that of john's and others.
Two - I am sick and tired of the way John rips into everyone who does a job or has more than he does. Cops don't close down Penn Station because they are scared and wear diapers. They close Penn station and rush in to protect people and property when everyone else is going the other way. They don't do it because they like to. they do it because it's their job and they are following the orders of those who determine the scope of that job.
John is a loser. He can't do anything but sponge off the rest of us. and have a grand old ball with his life (short of having a normal social life). Instead of realizing that the rest of us - including those same police, pay taxes (because we work), to support his waste of a life-style, he criticizes every one who does a job that he disagrees with. "If a bus is late - the bus dispatcher is an idiot". "If a train is re-routed, fire the trainmaster". "If the police risk their lives to investigate a suspicious package, they wear diapers." John has no respect for anyone who does not share his peter-pan view of life.
Sorry, Kevin my issue is not whether the alarm bell should be sounded or not. As far as I can see, there are as many people who live in fear as there are those who don't. If the government feels "better safe than sorry" is the way to go - I have no problem with it. My issue is why an asshole like john, who can't do for himself, continually criticizes those of us who can. As far as I'm concerned - he don't get a vote. But one day, one of the "gangsters" in the 1/2wit's neighborhood is going to take him off. I hope he's not hurt but I also hope he has the balls not to look for a diaper wearing cop for help.
But perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps you can point to 2 posts where you praise the way someone has done their job. Go back as far as you care to. I suspect that you'll fail to be able to find them. As for the rest of your pityful post - whatever!
Or the insane need of our "leaders" to head STRAIGHT to a TV camera and say "terrorists are going to hit the Mid Hudson Bridge" when staying QUIET about it (or at least keeping it away from the media long enough) might actually give them the chance to NAIL one of the SOB's on the way to their "Hadudda" ... I don't get the point of putting things out in the media and missing that opportunity because CNN warned them off - or worse, giving specifics of where military missions will be and who the target will be.
But above all, this silliness has resulted in Albany being on a state of alert, the two cops from the Rensselaer Sheriff's department guarding Joe Bruno's p*nis instead of road patrol (when guarding Amtrak should be funded and patrolled separately). I mean, watching what gets on a train headed for NYC - VALID. Helicopter patrols of downtown Albany, not so. After all what POSSIBLE strategic value is there for the terrorists in taking out ALBANY? They'd be doing us all a FAVOR. Therefore, not going to happen. :)
Meanwhile, as Keokuk and Grand Rapids is secured with nice absorbent "undergarments" and funding out the wazoo, New York CITY (an ACTUAL target) gets bupkiss ... that's what MY objections are all about ...
We gotta bear in mind what the PURPOSE of terrorism is - THAT is what makes it all work as well as it seemingly has ... taking out a suburban transformer yard MAY have been a useful thing for the Russkies in order to act as cover or a diversion, but even there it wasn't really going to happen. What WAS going to be taken out were military facilities and industrial facilities that in the end served the "war effort" ... dumping East Mudhole into the dark had no military value. Has even LESS value for "terrorists."
If you follow back through what these "folks" have pulled, year after year, it was attacking HIGHLY VISIBLE and WELL KNOWN "sites" and doing spectacular "Hollywood action movie style" damage - the COLE, WTC in 1993, the embassies, the nightclubs around the world ... each a "spectacle" intended solely to scare the qwap out of people by doing so where the CAMERAS were there to "bag the shot" so ALL could see what was done. The intent being to inflict as MUCH damage as possible, and to do so VISIBLY.
Attacks on the subway are possible, but the effects would NOT be "spectacular enough" compared to the more visible knocking down of WTC, the hit on the Pentagon or a mass kill on the STREET ... again, the operative mentality being doing something like this where Faux News could run helicopter shots over and over until we convert to Wahabbism our of fear ... this isn't your traditional "war" and the old rules are out the window. The incident in Spain fits only a little bit - probably because the trains that were blown up were OUTSIDE and strangely, were blown up RIGHT by where the press was located in Madrid rather than in the terminal. But it sure wasn't the "spectacular" level that Al Qaeda normally tries to do ... it still had the "smell" of amateurs only losely associated rather than a direct hit given that it was very serious, but not "spectacular."
This all said, I'm not that worried about the subways (at least underground) ... anything that might occur "down there" would probably not receive the attention since the scene would be sealed off. MUCH more likely if it's GOING to be a "rail hit" that it would be somewhere outside. But it's FAR more likely that it will be something that occurs on the street, possibly a chemical or dirty bomb attack. And while spectacular, the results owing to these things not being terribly efficient probably won't result in a high "body count" but will nonetheless cause the "freakout" that these thugs so desperately want.
But I wouldn't worry about the power yard - in the greater scheme of things about the only terrorists that would want to damage there would be the squirrels. :)
It can be very difficult to ignore the current alarmist nation even if you want to. Every time another station or line is shut down due to a "suspicious package" that turns out to be someone's forgotten lunch bag, thousands of people are inconvenienced. It's not an end-of-the-world type of situation, but an annoyance nonetheless, and one that's not always easy to ignore.
One more aspect of the current situation I've noticed is the occasional presence of machine-gun toting Operation Atlas (or is it Hercules?) cops at Penn Station. I don't know about you, but I find their presence highly disturbing, and I suspect I'm not alone.
I think I said it before but it's worth repeating: I'm a lot more afraid of them than I ever will be of Osama's "boyz."
I often wonder if those things are even loaded - BRRRRRP! and 25 people are dead.
I think the camouflage is a little over the top though - what are they trying to blend in with?
What about the TSA airport security's endless fascination with a myriad of small pointy objects, and the metal detectors that seem to be going up everyplace? They don't actually protect anybody, but (a) provide "busy work" for security people and (b) give the public the superficial impression that somebody's looking out for them, security personnel who would otherwise be doing useful but invisible things (surveying crowds for suspicious behavior, examining intelligence reports, coordinating responses with foreign governments, interrogating suspects, etc.).
Let me give you an analogy. ***hypothetical example to follow***
Suppose I send a communique to all the major media outlets and police officials stating that in the next 7 days, I will walk into a crowded place somewhere within the 5 boroughs with an automatic weapon, and open fire until I kill everyone in sight, then shoot myself.
***the above was a hypothetical example***
I've just told you pretty specifically what I am going to do, when I am going to do it, where I am going to do it, and how I am going to do it.
You're the mayor of NYC, and in front of you is an auditorium full of every official you could ever want to have - first responders, police chiefs, federal intelligence and law enforcement chiefs, etc. What do you tell them to do in order to prevent this attack from occurring? Remember, you still have an entire city to run so anything you do has to be within the constraints of the very limited city budget.
And if you manage to answer that question legitimately (which I don't think is possible), now what would you do if I didn't pay you the courtesy of that phone call, so you don't know what is going to happen? That is, you have no idea of the timeframe (any time between now and infinity), no idea where (anyplace in the 50 states or any place or person of US interest overseas (tourists, embassies, etc.), or what the modus operandi will be (planes, cars, trains, apartment buildings, stores, bars, restaurants, courthouses, federal buildings, landmarks, guns, bombs, knives, poison gas, water treatment facilities, nuclear power plants, etc.)
Thinking some more about it, I can only think of one valid way to reduce the risk of such an attack as I described - announce the plans publicly and let (encourage) those who wish to carry loaded (legal) firearms (and are licenced) to do so. At the very least it'll help bring a quick end and low fatalities to any shootout, and may well deter the attack altogether.
Somehow I think this isn't the kind of policy most of the do-gooders would hope to accomplish - that usually centers on taking more power and rights away from the masses and consolidating it in the hands of the few.
A flight was delayed and later cancelled entirely, inconveniencing over 100 passengers (not to mention the presumably hundreds more who would have flown on later connecting flights by that plane), and wasting hours in searches, because some self-proclaimed "psychic" said there was a bomb on the plane.
Now, as you say, on the 1 in a million chance that what the psychic happened to be right (even if by sheer chance, or because the psychic had some advance knowledge of what was going on), what would all the families of the victims say if the government ignored the warning? What about the children, the bloody children? So here we are, tearing a plane apart and stranding hundreds of commuters, all because some nut job phoned in a warning.
Hey here's one - Santa Claus told me there's a briefcase nuke in the Empire State Building. Peter Pan and the Abominable Snowman independently confirmed it. And oh yeah, I'm the reincarnation of John the Baptist.
ROTFLMAO!!!!
I think I'll mosey on up to Fifth and 34th with a truckload of Depends.
One problem is that we only hear about the 15 or 20 minute delay due to the suspicious package. You don't often hear about the 45 minute to 1 hour delay that happens 5 - 10 times as often because the police are searching for a robbery or rape suspect or the perpetrator of some other crime. Think about the relativity of the situations. On one hand a delay of a half hour to eliminate the potential threat to hundreds of people. On the other hand delays of that length or more to catch the perp. of a crime against one person. In one you are protecting (100s or thousands). In the other you are usually taking info about one. In that context, which is the more efficient use of resources? Protecting thousands or investigating one?
Seems to me that it depends on whether you are one of the 1000s or you are the one who was mugged, robbed, raped etc.
Again, that's my problem with Qballdash7. He sets himself up as the judge for all society. Of course he's not worried about his safety. After all, what the hell does he have to lose?
I suppose one could eliminate lifeboats on cruise ships and use the space gained to hold more passengers, a stage with exotic dancers, a petting zoo, a massage parlor, or lengthen the buffet table another 50 yards :)
It's a calculated risk. My point was, it seems we've fallen into a state of paranoia in which everyone who takes a picture of a train is a potential terrorist, every bag with a sandwich in it is a potential bomb, every bulge in someone's jacket is an Uzi or a suicide bomber belt, every congressman who refuses to vote in favor of a piece of legislation he hasn't been allowed to read is a traitor, administration officials can unilaterally decide to withhold virtually any information that could implicate them in wrongdoing in the name of "national security," etc. Just take all the cold-war era propaganda, replace commun- with terror-, and you get an idea for the type of future we're facing if we continue down this road. And in such a state of paranoia, our fears and emotions paralyze our ability to calculate risks.
Question: Is it a school lunchbag with the kids name written on it and the oil in the tuna is leaking through the aluminum foil? Or is it a bag with a biotoxin in it and a terrorist message on the outside? You're in the car with just a few people. Do you want some cleaner to knock the bag off the seat onto the floor with his broom - possibly breaking a vial of the anti-toxin? Or would you rather the police investigate the bag and determine it was just some kids lunch? It's just that simple.
And a kid's lunch is just what it'll be in 99.999999 % of the instances. Does this mean every time you see a brown lunch bag laying in the street you have to call in the haz-mat team? That's exactly what I'd call "paranoia."
But FWIW, if I wanted some dastardly thing to go without notice I'd just hide it. Instead of leaving the thing laying on a seat, I'd try to stuff it somewhere where it's not clearly visible (e.g. under the seat or the platform like a couple pigs I've seen in the past), or toss it in a garbage can. Take a walk through the 96th and Broadway station - you'll see more brown paper bags and all kinds of crap strewn all over the place... call in Homeland Security stat! Every one of those bags better be probed with the robot, then safely detonated with a remote device, right?
Now, do we need to evacuate a subway station every time somebody throws a brown paper bag into the garbage can (i.e. doing their civic duty as opposed to tossing it wherever, or forgetting it on a seat)? What if it's an Arab man carrying a Koran that throws the brown paper bag into the trash? He could be an al Qaeda operative! He could also simply be an Arab man, who happens to be a Muslim, who happens to be on his way to work. But that bag is at least as likely to be filled with those bio-toxins as the hypothetical one laying on the seat is (namely, almost zero probability). So if we should go to code red for the bag laying on the seat, why not the one in the garbage can?
Clearly the standards must be set much higher than simply "bag found on seat" or "Arab guy throws bag into trash" or "guy takes picture of subway train"
Why, John? it ain't like someone is asking you to risk your life to check an unattended package. Can I offer you a Depends?
post Sun Jan 26 20:59:16 2003 Thanks to Peggy for the great trip today
-thanked Peggy for a great tour she is a very knowledgable MTA employee
Other stuff sickens me
Posted by Qtraindash7 on Wed Sep 5 00:36:44 2001,
"Track workers have it rough, they work in terrible conditions and keep our subways running, they deserve alot more credit instead of complaints. "
He didn't want that, fine go find someone else to conduct tours
That was his choice to make.
WRONG. That is the decision of the tour guide, not the tourists. John is not the tour guide, Peggy was.
Fact is, whie I was partially at fault, I corrected my mistake before the tours were cancelled. Like David Of Broadway's post about the goose that laid golden eggs but the babies wanted more so there were no more golden eggs, greed continued to take over John "Q-Tip"7 and other Subtalkers that the tours were cancelled PERMANENTLY.
At that time, I might have asked Peggy to reconsider the decision but I cannot change it and I respect her decision. From the attitudes of some Subtalkers, I can see why.
So it's not his decision whether or not to attend the tour? The tour guides forced him to go?
However, all that is a moot point now.
Agreed
How about posting 2 links to two posts where you said that someone actually did a good job.
Until then, you are a snivelling weasel.
Forget Depends, Viagra anyone?
I didn't do it! Which, however, is not to say that I haven't been tempted, maybe if I somehow could be 100% certain that I wouldn't get caught ...
Carelessness was the understatement.
Carelessness was the understatement.
On behalf of????
These people who cause havoc, like intentionally leaving packages deemed suspicious, should be sent to jail.
Ha ha, that's wonderful!
Reminds me of the human fetus found in a plastic bag in a Macy's ladies room some years back, triggered quite a commotion ... the next day, the Medical Examiner's office identified the remains as a spaghetti and meat ball dinner.
I suppose that if the police had known the contents of that bag in advance, none of the commotion would have been necessary. Maybe since little John has all the balls in the world, he should get a job investigating all of those suspicious packages that the police are so scared of.
Today I would probably run away from it first :-(
Chuck Greene
Taxes? Who says the IRS has got to know about it?
Sounds like an old Honeymooners episode !
Bill "Newkirk"
The service interruption stretched from Franklin Ave. to Lower Manhattan on the 2, 3, 4, 5 lines between Franklin Ave in Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan.
The LIRR is also affected, the rail road tells that the NYPD asked LIRR to temporarily suspend service into and out of the Flatbush Ave station.
As a result, LIRR service between Brooklyn and Jamaica was disrupted, which will affect about 14,000 riders.
From 7online.com
FRIDAY, APRIL 16 | 7:15 PM — At our April Division Meeting, we will have a slide presentation by member Gregory Campolo (ERA #4598) consisting of views taken in the 1970s to the present in several northeast cities. Highlights will include wonderful shots of Boston’s subway and trolley lines, the NYC subway system, PATH, and SIRT. Please join us for a wonderful show.
To get there, take IRT West Side to Chambers St. and walk 1 block south and 1 block west to 101 Murray St. (St. John's U. Manhattan Campus)
Follow-up to last months crash which provided some "fun" times for Connecticut commuters. I'm sure the state will be knocking on her insurance company's door shortly.
CG
I got nailed for $300 doing '70' in a 50, and the sad part - in a station wagon that could barely REACH 70 on a good day. And this was about 50 feet from the traffic light that just turned green. Of course, I'm out of state, so I'm a cash source.
Oddly, $300 was larger than the state maximum fine for that ticket, and they were 'generous' and argued it down to the state maximum.
And then they WONDER why traffic courts have the reputation they do...
CG
Let the fun begin for those who want to restore service on the High Line.
CG
Here's a photo essay - I'm talking about the section he grouped under W 30th to West Side Yard...
http://www.oldnyc.com/highline/contents/highline.html
Today, while on a 3 train going uptown, I noticed that the brown signs are all gone and replaced with the standard white Helvetica on black.
Anyone know when and why they changed the signs?
Was Wall Street the only station to have these?
Has anyone heard such a story about this?
--Mark
Seriously, it really shouldn't be such a mystery. There is a lot on information on this site and Joe Brennan's ghost stations site, but some things remain vague, like why some stations had both platforms extended in the same direction while others, like Bleecker, did not. I would guess that this could have had to with property easements in some situations. And, they probably did not want stations too close to one another. Cost was also a factor (and was the reason why only some platforms were extended in 1948. But, you would think that they would do all they could to extend the uptown Bleecker platform southward in 1956. One of many bad planning decisions for the IRT!
Does anyone out there know for certain the reasoning for the extension decisions at each station in both 1948 and in 1956?
Weren't all the southbound stations between BB and 14 St extended southward and the northbound stations extended northward (with the exception of Worth Street which was closed when the northbound stations were extended.) Between 14th and 42nd, all are extended southward, of course with the exception of 18th Street which was closed.
It's also understandable (if funding was scarce) why the northbound stations would be extended last because the conductor only had to open the first half of the train until reaching 14th Street whereas passengers would have to relocate if all the soutnbound stations were not extended at the same time.
As far as the story was concerned, I was the one who posted it. It was not a joke although it does sound incredible. I can't remember where I read it, but I think it was in a series about the subway somewhere. It might have been the NY Post series that ran about 25 years ago. I also seem to remember something about a BMT Broadway entrance that mistakenly was built in the center of the street rather than on the sidewalk and had to be closed off and rebuilt.
Mistakes are rare but they do happen. Just go to Brighton Beach Avenue and Brighton First Street and you will see one el pillar that misses the corner of the sidewalk by about 5 feet and is placed just off the curb. All the others are on the sidewalk near the corners or near the edge of the sidewalk.
The Brighton grid is crazy like Queens.
Not exactly:
Both Canal Street platforms were extended northward. Why? I would guess because the southbound Worth Street platform was expended northward as well. Worth Street was already closer to Brooklyn Bridge than to Canal Street, while Canal Street was far enough from Spring Street for the downtown platform to be extended northward without being too close to Spring. See Joe Brennan's Worth Street page for a good map.
Does anyone know when these two projects are scheduled to be completed?
While this would be useful as a "rainy day" provision, under normal operating conditions I don't think it would get a lot of use.
"While this would be useful as a "rainy day" provision, under normal operating conditions I don't think it would get a lot of use."
How do you get from 6th Ave in midtown to downtown?
The obvious answer is to switch to the A/C/E at W 4th or to the 6 at Bleecker. But that's only a partial solution, since the A/C/E and 6 don't serve downtown that well. For many downtown destinations, a transfer to the R would be very helpful.
Better yet would be for the F to run downtown, as discussed in my other posting.
Walk over to Seventh Avenue and take the 1? Or, if you have your heart set on the BMT, do take the IND and change at 34 St. Seriously, how many people would a Prince St. transfer benefit? If you're boarding at a 6 Av station north of 34 St. you change there for the BMT. If at 14 St. you can take the L one stop for the BMT. If at West 4 you might as well spare yourself a transfer, take the A downtown and walk to your destination. If at B-Laf. you're already at Prince St.... and with the Jay St. passageway going in, F passengers can get to downtown Bklyn BMT stations from there.
So this Prince St. transfer would be a convenience only for however many pax are going from 23rd St. to Rector or Whitehall Sts. and cannot bear to stroll down Broadway from Fulton St. This is worth breaking out the backhoes?
My wife works near Hanover Sq. but I think we'll both be retired by then. Currently she uses the M15 bus.
When she was working at WTC she told me that, walking to Prince N/R to Cortlandt, walking to Bleecker 6+4/5 to Fulton, 6 to BB and walk, F to W.4th and E to WTC all took about the same time.
as well as the transfer from the F at Jay St. for Brooklyn BMT stations.
Hopefully this should become reality soon enough. But I should also mention that we still won't have easy access to the Brighton on weekends. Something we had and used for a long time with the D from Broad/Laf. Oh boy, it's going back to the "Should the D stop at Dekalb on weekends?" question. :-p
Seems likely. There is still an empty lot that looks exactly like a former gas station.
The gas station itself would not have blocked the platforms, unless there was/is a gasoline tank under the sidewalk.
However, the sidewalk is narrow, so the platform would have been narrow. There may be slightly more room northward.
That is likely enough since the property owner owns up to the Street, not to the edge of the building. Many properties have vaults under the sidewalks. Usually these were used for receiving coal, but there are many sidewalk elevators that pop up from that space too.
Elias
I can't think of a gas station that DOESN'T have the underground gas tanks.
True, but there's no particular reason to think they were under the Lafayette St sidewalk, rather than under the rest of the property.
Yes, this connection is in the MTA's capital plan.
Construction is supposed to be in the next plan, along with Jay/Lawrence. I hope that these connections don't get cut once another election is over and our saints and heros in Albany an admit that their decisions screwed our future. The city needs all the transformational investments it can get, and these two, especially Bleeker, count.
like how long is the 7, or the A, or 6, etc?
that's what I know so far
(I'm sorry that I am not competent enough to attempt it )
You need chaining information to be really accurate. I happen to have most of this information for WMATA. These figures are based on outbound end of terminal platform to outbound end of terminal platform.
RoutesLineMilesFeetKilometersA and BRed31.6847167,29550.9915C, D, J and GBlue32.1453169,72751.7328C, D and KOrange26.047137,52841.9185E and FGreen22.9924121,40037.0027C, E, F and LYellow10.942857,77817.6107
Note the accuracy of the Yellow Line is within plus or minus 75’ (22 m)
John
train #608
Colorado Railcar DMU
Colorado Railcar DMU demonstrator
It was subsequently on display at 30th Street Station for dignitaries.
While I waited for my R5 train to Ardmore and a subsequent R7 to Trenton, I photographed Silverliner II's and III's, since they're getting old and may not be around much longer.
Market East
SL II
SL II
SL II, III, and IV
same train
light Gennies preceeding ATK train #608
2. My train arrived simultaneously, and I got on. All was normal until we came out of the Pooks Hill Portal, at which point the train began to slow much earlier than normal. We came to a stop at the end of the bridge over 355, with the first car on the gap where the third rail switches from one side of the running rails to the other. After about 10-15 seconds, the lights and AC cut out on my car and my car only and the emergency lights came on. The train in the station was 213, a Grosvenor bound train, and 118, a Shady Grove bound train, was between 213 and my train, 210. For some reason, the pocket was not usable (either switch malfunction or stalled train in the pocket), so after my train had sat there for about a minute, central told 213 to go up to Twinbrook (the next crossover) to relay. 118 moved into the station, and central told my train to discharge upon arrival at Grosvenor and also relay at Twinbrook, which it did once 118 moved out. What was interesting is when 118 moved far enough ahead for my train to move, since my train had no power, my car was pushed by the 5 cars behind it (it was a Rohr train, I could hear the AC motors) until my car got power again, at which point the AC traction kicked in. I saw one person still on the train as it left for the long relay and plenty of people on the platform who had alighted at Grosvenor from Glenmont trains with all the seats taken waiting for Silver Spring trains that would have seats (of course, they weren't coming, they had to go relay at Twinbrook).
That said, it seems to me WMATA dropped the ball on this one. It seems to me they should have sent 213 to Twinbrook, relayed it there, and then if the pocket became usable for 210, just had the two trains swap positions (210 would take 213's schedule and vice-versa) to maintain a decent level of service. They sent out an eAlert later reporting 15 minute delays between Grosvenor and Glenmont though it seems that if the pocket was only out for a few minutes, alot of this could have been avoided.
Jersey Central GP7 #1523, owned by the United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey, is moving from the Black River & Western to the Cape May Seashore Lines. I got a couple of grab shots from the NJTransit River Line train. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to go back and get a "real" photo.
CNJ GP7 #1523
CNJ GP7 #1523
The video was done in R-12 #5760 and the train was on the move. There was some people in this car, although it may have been a press run.. Nobody selling batteries or rejects from Bellevue riding shotgun. That's it, very brief and quick.
Bill "Newkirk"
Now the bridge changes have settled in, I have four surplus Z-maps. I'm itching to get rid of them, but I'll be happy to part with them gratis.
I only have four and there's one to a customer. First four Subtalkers (via e-mail) get them. If interested, reply by E-MAIL ONLY and not answering this post here. I'll even blow the dust off !
Thanks,
Bill "Newkirk"
Yup, but I'm extending this to the Subtalk community. You know, Christmas in April !
Ho, Ho, Ho
Bill "Newkirk"
Yep, check you e-mail.
Bill "Newkirk"
Yes, when you first pull apart the ends, it looks like a Z.
It's the size of a Metrocard and in fact has a pocket to store your Metrocard.
Bill "Newkirk"
Does that mean employees are not allowed on them??
Peace,
ANDEE
It runs on a third rail
And most of its stops are in Philadelphia
LIRR and Metro North run on 3rd rail too, and they are very much commuter rail.
1. It goes thru Pennsylvania and New Jersey
2. It connects with NJT
I'm not sure about how fast it goes, but it does haul some ass.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
NO!
Why does everyone always say this? Interstate operation has NOTHING to do with the FRA. PATCO, WMATA and St. Louis Metrolink are all interstate operations, and yet none of them have anything to do with the FRA.
It was originally a subway line that was expanded into the current at-grade and elevated alignment. So call it a subway that grew up into an interurban.
You can't say PATCO is just not a railroad, you need to explain why PATCO isn't a railroad.
65 mph
It originally cruised at 75 mph, but the traction motors had a very high failure rate which couldn't be corrected, so 65 has been the MAS for over 30 years.
The format of the PATCO line itself screams "subway". Don't know about you, but it bottom-lines it for me.
Click here for a LIST of maps on eBay
Disclaimer:
I have no interest in these auctions.
I am NOT the seller and I will not be bidding on them either...
However, it doesn't discuss what happened to the accident cars, Breda 3191 and 3252, or their mates. All I could find doing a Google search on the car numbers was an nycsubway.org page saying that they were taken out of service on January 6, 1996.
Does anyone know what happened to these cars or their mates?
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Though I can’t verify this, this is probably what WMATA did. The car number on the surviving mates would be 3190 and 3253. Keep an eye out for car with either of these number and you will find their mates. Mind you both of these cars might now be carrying different numbers.
John
Interesting project, BTW.
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I always associated "research" with going out and finding information on your own, not asking others to hand it to you.
Myself, I always associated "research" with going out and finding information that no one has compiled to date. If it has already been compiled, there is no shame in using what's there, rather than re-inventing the wheel.
--Mark
The question is, was it meant to capture the El, or be a new subway? And would it have continued down Fulton and made the S-curve, or went straight up Jamaica Avenue?
Whose nickname is that? Not NYC Transit's. I've been a buff for 25 years and an NYCT employee for 15+, and I've never heard that name used before in connection with R-32s or R-38s.
David
til next time
A visual reference, on Sept. 9th.
I don't get what you're saying but the G that I take to school every morning has a C/R and T/O, much like any other NON-OPTO line.
Its amazing that the New York City Transit Authority can direct people to exit to a location that does not exist.
I wonder how many more signs are like that in the system.
Thank You
BTW-Park Avenue South ends and Park Avenue begins at East 32nd Street and Park Avenue South never went north of East 32nd Street.
1 Park Avenue and 2 Park Avenue are located between East 32nd and East 33rd Street
I've noticed a pattern among my friends who, like me, love subways & public transit: all of them (us) also love neighborhoods--we love the subways, and we love taking them to often-obscure neighborhoods just to explore & wander around.
This is the reason why I wanted this question on this bulletin board, even though it is only indirectly about subways--because I think that you're the only group I know of where people in NY who love the different neighborhoods gather and talk.
So since I love to explore different neighborhoods around NYC, especially the ethnic ones. I went to look for a web site that listed all the different neighborhoods (ie, "if you want to see an old Italian neighborhood in Brooklyn, go to Bensonhurst" etc)--but I couldn't find it. So I made such a list myself. It's a simple list & easy web site, and the address is: www.walkingaround.com
My question for you is just this: I compiled this list just based on my own personal experience, and with the suggestions of a few friends. But I think that the other subway-lovers on this site would know of many other neighborhoods & groups that I can add to the site, to make it more comprehensive.
If this interests you, take a look at the site and let me know if you have any suggestions for additions or other advice for the site!
Thanks!
morgan
The 8 miles of road the 7 runs on are among the most diverse in the world. Some you missed that are important are Koreans, Japanese (Flushing), Mexicans, Columbians, Itailan other Latino (Corona), Chinese and Indians (Elmhurst), Irish (Sunnyside), Hipsters, Artists, (Long Island City).
I am as heartbroken by what now goes on in my old home neighborhoods, as I am charmed and fascinated by the details of their pasts, as lovingly documented in the "Our Neighborhood The Way It Was" column of the Times Newsweekly.
I heard on WNYC-FM 93.9 in June 1998 that a hundred distinct ethnic groups had been identified as either living or working in zip code area 11373 (Elmhurst, Queens). My father used to live in a nursing home within walking distance of downtown Flushing, May 1997 through
October 1999, and so I got a taste of this diversity riding out on the 7 line to visit him every week.
I felt the same regret when I read in a posting here a few weeks ago the advice to not leave the stations around the stops on the #3 along Livonia Ave. until you get to New Lots.
From 1945-52, between the ages of 5-12, I lived one block south of Livonia, halfway between the Junius St. and Pennsylvania Ave. stations. I'd say this was one of the best times and places in New York to see a variety of equipment, both IRT and BMT, going by. I think I probably learned to count up to ten by watching the IRT Hi-Vs whiz past. In the later part of my living there, I was old enough to ride the Canarsie line (usually in a Multi) up to Atlantic, get off and hang around on the S/B platform while Standards, Multis, C-types (Fulton Street El), BU's (Fulton-Lex until 1950) and on a lucky day, an occasional Bluebird went through, all of them in revenue service. The only BMT types missing were the Qs and the Triplex.
Though my family moved to Crown Heights, I attended Thomas Jefferson HS (on Pennsylvania, a block north of Livonia) from 1953-57. I *lived* the change over from Hi-Vs (the Low-Vs were used on the East Side expresses and on "the Flatbush" - today's #2) to the R-21s and up. What a difference!!
Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy.
I "grew up" on the Canarsie Line.
I have a Jewish friend, born Sep 12 1955, who lived on Georgia Avenue near Livonia the first 5 or 6 years of her life. She and her family then moved to Sheepshead Bay, a stone's throw from the Avenue U stop on the Brighton Line, Three Star Restaurant, and Rose Salkin's of Bklyn Bridal Shop, where my wife and a close friend of hers got their wedding dresses and shoes, 1991 and 1998, respectively.
I had family on my mother's side who once lived at 342 Hinsdale between Blake and Dumont Avenues. Their home church was St. John Cantius on the southeast corner of Blake and New Jersey Avenues.
There used to be a Jewish deli on the northwest corner of Pennsylvania and Livonia. I remember the old neon sign in Hebrew, starting in 1967, with family trips by car south on Pennsylvania Avenue, from Ridgewood, to Jacob Riis Park.
You might enjoy brooklynboard.com if you haven't already.
Shalom from NYC. L'chaim. Live long and prosper.
Pete
Thanks for that one - I havent heard of it before. Going to check it out.
All the places you mention come back to me like it was yesterday. How come I can't remember what I had for breakfast, but I can tell you the name of every store under the el along Livonia Ave. in 1952 ?????
Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy.
I'm the same way. You probably know that long term memory is chemical, short term memory is electrical, and that as one gets older, the long term tends to intensify as the short term weakens.
Another factor could be an increasing interest, and desire to live in, the past, as the present becomes increasingly boring, lonely, and troublesome.
Do you remember the Russian or Eastern Orthodox green onion-domed orange brick church at the southeast corner of Pennsylvania and Belmont Avenues ? That's a landmark I always enjoyed picking out from the Canarsie and Jamaica els.
I've never ridden the elevated Brooklyn IRT from Utica Ave to New Lots, though I've been under it many times on the Canarsie Line. I enjoy seeing it from the south end of the Broadway Junction platform or from the Jamaica el when it's above Fulton Street.
Shalom from NYC. Pete
So you're from Tel Aviv. Do you know the guys from RailnewsIL.com? Can you convince them to start publishing again?
(RailnewsIL is a Hebrew language site devoted to news and info on the Israeli rail system)
When I moved here in 1990, the system here was deteriorated and not well-supported by either the government or the people. I did get the chance to ride the line from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem - a route up through the beautiful mountains where the single diesel growled like a lion as it wound up and around. Sadly, A couple of years later, service on the line was discontinued for lack of ridership.
Now, the gov't has finally understood the need for something to relieve the horrendous road traffic into and out of Tel Aviv in the rush hours (can you all say "Long Island Expressway"??) We've updated our equipment to the modern European commuter bi-levels and added a number of new lines in the past couple of years to some of the populous suburbs. Thay are trying.
Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy.
The turnback operation at 111th St was fascinating to watch.
Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy
I had been riding the gate cars by myself for several years then.
I left the city the summer before the Q's replaced the gate cars on the Myrt.
(I felt the same regret when I read in a posting here a few weeks ago the advice to not leave the stations around the stops on the #3 along Livonia Ave. until you get to New Lots.)
Don't worry. Back in the day, you probably thought of Park Slope as a poor neighborhood. Not anymore. There is a wave or reinvestment pushing out from Manhattan, that is bound to reach Ridgewood soon. In fact, a higher share of NYC's white resident are now more college educated than is true in the suburbs.
The city would be coming up even faster were it not for the fact that, unfortunately, Blacks and Latinos still leave the city if they gain an an education or other skill, leaving the troubled and trouble causing behind. I think the lousy schools provided to minority neigbbrhoods is part of the reason, and I guess I can't blame them for leaving. But that could turn around too.
LIC is fast becoming yuppified, with reataurants popping up along Vernon Ave. and along 2nd Street across from Gantry Park. Aside from the light industry remaining, the neighborhood was ethnic Italian (although the population was aging), and most of the businesses which were there are seeing an upsurge as new young residents arrive.
On Topic - During our stay, it happened that the leader of my grandson's playgroup had arranged a ride for the two-year-olds in the cab of Locomotive number 100 kept in the LIRR yard there. Turns out that a couple of the LIRR employees visit one of the coffee shops on Vernon regularly, and got into conversations with the playgroup leader. Grandpa was treated to several minutes out and back on the old Montauk Branch on a set ot tracks which is not third-railed and featured an active street crossing at grade. All this with the Manhattan skyline dominating the view.
Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy.
your paisano,
-Dan
Peace,
ANDEE
Irish - Breezy Point & Broad Channel
Italian - "South Village" in Manhattan, box formed by Houston, 6th Ave, Spring & W. B'way (this is all that remains of the West Village's concentration of Italians).
African American - formerly in Greenwich Village, centered around Minetta Lane & St., Carmine, and West 3rd Streets.
Chinese: Chinatown (Canal Street, all trains); Main Street, Flushing (7 train); 8th Avenue and 62nd Street (N train). Best food is still in Chinatown.
Italian: Metropolitan Avenue (M train); anywhere in Bensonhurst on the D, M, or N trains; Little Italy (Canal or Bleecker on the 6 train); 111 Street in Corona on the 7 (and go to Spaghetti Park on 108th Street south of Roosevelt for the Parkside Restaurant, Lemon Ice King of Corona, etc.). Go to Corona.
Irish: Riverdale (225-242 Streets on the 1,9); Woodside/Sunnyside (46th, 52nd, 61st Street on the 7); Park Slope (15th Street/Prospect Park on the F). Best bars are the Copper Kettle on 53rd Street and Skillman Avenue, and anywhere on Woodside Avenue between 58th and 61st. But try Puck Fair at 295 Lafayette (Broadway/Lafayette station).
Polish: my dad's old neighborhood in Greenpoint (G to Nassau or Greenpoint Aves). Pick your restaurant for fresh kielbasa, pierogi or blintzes.
Mexican/Dominican/South American: the best is still Rincon Criollo (Cuban) at Junction Boulevard on the 7 (northeast corner). But try Gonzalez y Gonzalez at Prince and Broadway, a block from Broadway/Lafayette.
This should be a good start!
It's as true as it ever was. Brooklyn as the Capitol of the world. What this nation needs is a President From Brooklyn.
In the late sixties, my folks would drive from our house in Whitestone to park near the 111th Street station on the 7. There used to be an Italian bakery on 111th between Roosevelt and 41st that made bread in all kinds of incredible shapes- boats, animals, you name it. It was gone by the mid-seventies.
Corona between Roosevelt and the LIE has been heavily Latin for the past 25 years, but recently there's been a noticeable insurgence of Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and, closest to the LIE, Russians.
This is your brain ... this is your brain on subtalk ... any questions? :)
Assimilation is making it increasingly difficult to maintain cohesive white-ethnic neighborhoods. Fewer and fewer people think of themselves as "Italian," or "Irish," or whatever, now it's just a generic "white." Orthodox and Hasidic Jews are pretty much the only significant exception.
In the middle of this period, it was interesting seeing the 1998 "Godzilla" (Matthew Broderick, "Mayor Ebert")late May 1998 at the Corona Plaza Theater at Roosevelt and 103rd. It was subtitled in Spanish, and when the Jean Reno character spoke French, there were three languages going on.
Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy.
That's not the only thing you don't know.
Peace,
ANDEE
Maybe you can find it in some NY Times collection.
Italian:
MANHATTAN: Little Italy's been virtually consumed by Chinatown and SoHo. There still seems to be a tiny pocket in Northwest SoHo and the Southwest Village around 6th & Houston. Any train to West 4th or the 1/9 to Christopher or Houston.
BRONX- Morris Park, accessible by the 5 to namesake stop. Pelham Bay, along the 6 from Westchester Square to the terminus.
BROOKLYN- Bensonhurst, along the D from 62nd Street to 25th Avenue and the N from New Utrecht to 86th Street. Dyker Heights is a long walk from the R from Bay Ridge Avenue to 86th Street or the D from 62nd Street to 18th Avenue. Williamsburg (!) still has some Italian presence along the L at Lorimer and Graham. Cobble Hill, along the F and G on Smith Street. May still be some presence in extreme south and west Canarsie, a long walk from the L terminus.
QUEENS- Ozone Park, along the A from 88th to Lefferts. Some presence in Ridgewood (M to Forest or Fresh Pond), Astoria (N/W to Ditmars) and Woodhaven (J to Forest or Woodhaven).
Irish:
MANHATTAN- At least in the eighties, there were a lot of Irish pubs and nationals in the Gramercy Park area, mostly around 3rd & 23rd. TINY remaining presence in Inwood at the 207th terminus of the A.
BRONX- Norwood, squarely around the 205th terminus of the D. Kingsbridge, along the 1 from 231st to 242nd. Some presence in Pelham Bay. Woodlawn is reachable by bus from the end of the 4 or D, or a long walk from the 2 at 233rd Street.
BROOKLYN- Bay Ridge, along the R from Bay Ridge to 95th. Park Slope/Windsor Terrace, along the F from 7th Avenue to Fort Hamilton. Marine Park is a long but pleasant walk from the B/Q at Kings Highway.
QUEENS- Sunnyside and Woodside along the 7 from 40th to 61st- though Latins and South Asians now pretty much dominate both areas. Rockaway Park along and beyond the Shuttle. Some remaining presence in Astoria at the end of the N/W.
German/Mid-European:
MANHATTAN- Still somewhat of a presence in Yorkville, centering around 86 on the 4/5/6.
BRONX- Small but vibrant Slavic community in Belmont overshadowed by legendary Italian community. Long walk or short bus ride from 2 at Pelham Parkway or D at Fordham.
BROOKLYN- Greenpoint and north Williamsburg (G from Greenpoint to Metropolitan; L to Bedford) still dominant Polish communities.
QUEENS- Ridgewood's base German population replaced in recent years by Latins and Asians, but still heavily concentrated around Forest and Fresh Pond on the M. Still some presence in Woodhaven.
Mid-Eastern/South Asian:
MANHATTAN- Longstanding Indo-Pak strip on Lexington from about 26th to 32nd, 6 to 28th or 33rd.
BRONX- Growing Indian communities in Parkchester (6) and along Pelham Parkway (2 or 5). Also on upper Concourse (D).
BROOKLYN- Very large mideastern presence in Kensington/Flatbush below Prospect Park to around J between McDonald and Ocean Avenue. Coney Avenue an increasingly famous shopping strip. The F (Church to I) and B/Q (Church to H) runs along the western and eastern fringes respectively. Growing Turkish/Pakistani/Arab presence in northwest Bay Ridge.
QUEENS- Jackson Heights known worldwide as South Asian shopping mecca, with long tentacle along E/F/G/R/V line through Elmhurst all the way to 63rd Drive in Rego Park. Increasing Arab/Pakistani population in central Astoria, reachable by N/W (36th to Astoria Boulevard) or G/R/V to Steinway. Directly south of downtown Flushing is a large Indian commercial area. Ozone Park/Richmond Hill also has major Sikh/Guyanese commerce, especially along Liberty Avenue. Western Jamaica along the F from Briarwood to 169th has an increasing Indian and Guyanese population as well.
SE Asia:
MANHATTAN- Chinatown endures, expanding deep into previously heavily Latin and Jewish Lower East Side. There seems to be an insurgence on the Upper West Side of late.
BRONX- Rather large Vietnamese community in central Fordham along 4 and D.
BROOKLYN- Sunset Park (R from 36th to 59th; N to 8th and Fort Ham) now a Chinese stronghold, with tentacles to many SW Brooklyn communities- especially Bensonhurst (along the N's 64th Street corridor from New Utrecht to Bay Parkway) and Sheepshead Bay (a large shopping area concentrated around Avenue U on the Q.)
QUEENS- Obviously Flushing (I oughta know- I LIVE there), with large concentrations in Jackson Heights and Elmhurst as well.
Jewish:
MANHATTAN- Still a surprisingly large presence on the Lower East Side (around the Delancey/Essex complex). Also a noticeable Orthodox presence on the Upper West Side along the 1/2/3/9 from 72nd to 86th, and a shrinking one in Washington Heights along the A at 181st and 190th.
BRONX- A tortuous uphill walk from the 1 at 231st, but Riverdale still has a large presence. Pelham Parkway near the 2 has had a recent insurgence of Russian immigrants.
BROOKLYN- Huge Orthodox areas in Williamsburg (J/M to Marcy and Hewes), Borough Park (between the D from Fort Ham to 62nd and F from Ditmas to Bay Parkway) and the often overlapping greater Midwood/Homecrest/Kings Highway/Gravesend area(between the F from I to X and the D from J to Kings). Another Hasidic stronghold in Crown Heights directly south of Eastern Parkway (3 from Nostrand to Utica). Famous Russian community in Brighton Beach around the temporary Q terminus. Still some presence in east Bensonhurst (along the N West 7 Street ROW), Coney Island, Sheepshead Bay, Manhattan Beach and some areas remote from the subway: Mill Basin, Georgetown.
QUEENS- Historically the Rego Park/Forest Hills/Kew Gardens corridor of the E/F/G/R/V from Woodhaven through Briarwood. A huge influx of eastern European, Russian and Mideastern immigrants concentrated around 63rd Drive and 67th Avenue for the past decade. Moderate Orthodox and secular communities at both Rockaway terminals. The 179th end of the F hosts the increasingly Orthodox Jamaica Estates.
West Indian:
BRONX- Most of the NE corner above Pelham Parkway, which comprises the 2 and 5 from there to their respective termini. Seems concentrated around 233rd on the 2.
BROOKLYN- Huge area south of Eastern Parkway (the entire Nostrand segment of the 2 runs directly through its heart) and east of approximately the Q line ROW. Increasing presence north of the Parkway towards Fulton (A,C from about Franklin to Utica) and in Canarsie.
QUEENS- Most of the SE corner, only accessible by bus from the Jamaica termini of the E,F and J. Lesser-known area in East Elmhurst/North Corona, a long walk from the 7 at 103rd or 111th.
Latin areas are just too numerous to document- and now I'm TIRED- but the Lower East Side, East Harlem, Washington Heights, the Hub, Fordham, High Bridge, Sunset Park, Williamsburg, East New York, Jackson Heights, Elmhurst and Jamaica are some that come quickest to mind.
- There's a small Filipino community near 1st Avenue on the L.
- West 14th Street, roughly between Seventh (IRT) and Eighth (IND) avenues used to have a Spanish (from Spain, not Latin American) community, I'm not sure if anything is left.
- There are scattered remnants of a once-thriving Italian neighborhood in East Harlem, a few blocks east from 116 on the Lex.
- While "ethnic" isn't quite the term, there are substantial gay populations in the vicinity of Christopher St. on the 1/9 and between 14th and 23rd on the A/C/E.
It used to be that you could distinguish a second-generation, secular Jewish neighborhood in the boroughs or suburbs by the presence of a Kosher deli that was open on Saturdays, and a neighborhood sit-down Chinese restaurant. Both are virtually extinct at the respective hands of the Ben's Deli chain and Chinese buffets. You'd be hard pressed today to find a 'candy store' that sold comic books and Spaldeens- and served grilled cheese and egg creams to people sitting on those revolving stools.
As recently as the seventies or eighties, neighborhoods served by subways that could be considered second generation/secular Jewish included the Village, Upper East and West Sides, Washington Heights, Parkchester, Fordham, Kingsbridge, Riverdale, Flatbush, Bensonhurst, Gravesend, Coney Island, Sheepshead Bay, Canarsie, Jackson Heights, Rego Park, Forest Hills, Kew Gardens and Howard Beach. While these areas still have some people who fall into this category, most have relocated to suburbs, died off or moved to Florida. (Aren't those last two factors redundant?)
It always amuses me when, at a wedding, bar mitvah or funeral, I hear older relatives reminiscing about the 'old neighborhoods' in Tremont, Morrisania, Mott Haven, Bed-Stuy, Brownsville, East New York, Cambria Heights and Laurelton.
Don't either bother considering bagel stores the sign of a Jewish neighborhood. They're EVERYwhere!
Speaking of Ben's Deli, the outlet in Lake Grove (Suffolk Co.) recently changed its name to "Zan's Deli." The new signs have the same font as the old ones and the menu seems the same, as far as I can tell.
My sister-in-law's father and his cousin owned the deli for years, so they named it "Cousins." They sold it to Ben's.
Cambria Heights was a Jewish area? I've lived here for almost 16 years, and besides Montefiore Cemetery, I really don't see any influence of that. Although, it's quite possible that 20 years of Caribbean and African-American influences may have wiped what traces were left.
I remember driving the length of Linden Boulevard through Cambria Heights in 1978 or 1979 as a couple of friends and I tried to find our way to Aqueduct Raceway (we'd gotten bad directions). The area seemed entirely black, all the way from the Cross Island almost to Aqueduct. So if Cambria Heights once had been Jewish, the traces thereof were gone 25 or 26 years ago.
Who thought the "Melting Pot" would also include food?
On Varick Street, just a few steps from Houston Street on the 1/9, there's a tiny takeout Mexican place. It's not bad, every so often I'll get something from it for lunch. The thing is, while the menu's entirely Mexican, the whole staff is Chinese.
Interesting, because the Indian community historically based in Jersey City has also largely relocated to Edison- and New Brunswick- and Piscataway- and Woodbridge- and Rahway, according to friends we have in that general vicinity.
Slightly off topic, but when we went to visit a friend at Bellevue, we noticed a HUGE quantity of Filipino nurses. That's said to be the most popular occupation of female Filipino immigrants. Since so many hospitals are concentrated on Manhattan's East Side, that might explain why there would be any concentrations of Filipinos around 1st & 14th- which borders supposedly traditionally Irish Stuy Town!
BROOKLYN- Very large mideastern presence in Kensington/Flatbush below Prospect Park to around J between McDonald and Ocean Avenue. Coney Avenue an increasingly famous shopping strip. The F (Church to I) and B/Q (Church to H) runs along the western and eastern fringes respectively. Growing Turkish/Pakistani/Arab presence in northwest Bay Ridge.
There also are many Mid-Eastern stores along Atlantic Avenue west of Flatbush.
-RJM
With the onslaught of new houses, condos and apartments being built in the Rockaways, it has become very diverse over the last 5 to 10 years, especially Far Rockaway, Rockaway Beach and the eastern section of Rockaway Park (B116th to B98th Sts). There has been a large wave of Africans, West Indians, East Indians, Latin Americans, Asians and Russians.
Is the Orthodox Jewish population on the eastern end of Far Rockaway still holding its own?
Another section is along Beach/Bay 32nd St and Norton Drive in the Bayswater section of Far Rockaway.
- Inserting a dollar bill without problems(GFI Odessy box)
- Jumping on the bus when the doors open before bus makes complete stop
and my favorite:
- Who can make their way to the rear door BEFORE the bus hits a full stop and, if there's passenger operated doors, operate the thing correctly instead of pushing as hard as they can!
and for a bonus:
- ringing the bell the proper distance before their stop, not 1-2 miles away if express, or within 40 feet of the stop!(I do know of two proactive drivers that for some reason, can see and tell if someone's about to ring the bell. I like the one 60 driver, he's good at this).
And the damn thing is, GFI doesn't give a shit. I tried to talk with GFI people about their inferior product at the APTA 2002 expo in Las Vegas. They didn't want to hear about it, acted like I wasn't even talking to them. And it wasn't the fact that I am just a bus operator -- my base (depot) manager tried to talk with them too, and they brushed her off just as fast as they did me.
Oh well, they were good for a few rubber squeeze toys shaped and decorated like their piece of crap farebox.
And as far as that dollar bill accepter go, the secret is to just SHOVE it in there, don't be gentle. First time I ever used that box i was buying a day pass, put 3 dollar bills in the box, and the driver commented how I got them all in there and eveyrone has problems. Didn't know what he meant utnil i watched other folks.
Just SHOVE it in, you'll never have an issue.
Does anyone else use those boxes NYC has on their buses? Those were werid how you dipped it in and it was quick(or i remember it being quick anyway).
And the guys in Vegas were probably sales people or marketers. Possibly if they were engineers they might have responded....I would think.
FWIW, at least two people here - one more active than the other - have managed to win the C/R rodeo.
Most other agencies around the country also hold these competition. It was started in bus operations in the transit industry then rail properties started holding these competitions.
The trucking industry, police and fire departments also have similar competitions.
I recall WMATA holding its first bus rodeo back in the late 1970s The winning competitors move on to a national competitions. NYCTA won a national rail rodeo competition back in the 1990s when WMATA was the host site of national competition.
John
The Belt Parkway is in the background and behind the Belt is Coney Island Yard.
I believe that track still exists and may be covered with debris or weeds.
Bill "Newkirk"
Glenn
http://www.mth-railking.com/
Catalog Page with R1/9 Train.
http://www.mth-railking.com/search.asp?item=20-2554-1&page=cat
I also saw the pre-production sample of the R-26. Not quite as spectacular as the 12s but very pretty in their own right.
Baseball sets are another story. Feh!Not for my layout.
It's funny how, they used to support the train, but when they're out of the loop, they're now the sole funders to derail the train.
And lets go back to the original point, if they were so concerned about transportation in Orlando and florida, how come they never showed it until now. Why didn't Seaworld build a normal interchange at I-4, along with Universals extremely half-assed approach too.
-----------------------------------------------
Universal, Busch say the state's money would be better spent improving highways to the Orlando region.
By JEAN HELLER, Times Staff Writer
Published April 17, 2004
The major theme park companies in Orlando that lost out to Disney in getting a station on the high-speed rail line now are banding together to make sure nobody catches the train.
Financial reports filed in Tallahassee this week show that of the $226,000 collected by a political action committee formed to pry a high-speed rail mandate out of the state Constitution, more than $220,000 of it came from the holding company that owns the Universal theme part complex in the International Drive area of Orlando.
And earlier this week, officials of Anheuser-Busch, which owns Busch Gardens and SeaWorld, also in the International Drive area, said more road building would be a better way to spend state money than the train.
According to the financial report filed with the Department of State's elections division, only 13 contributions had been made as of March 30 to the anti-rail PAC, Derail the Bullet Train, or DEBT. The movement is led by Gov. Jeb Bush and Florida's chief financial officer Tom Gallagher.
Most were small contributions made by a handful of individuals, but then Universal came along in early March and anted up $200,000 in cash. Late in the month it chipped in again with an in-kind contribution by paying DEBT's legal fees of $20,522.28.
As of the end of the month, Anheuser-Busch had not made any contributions to DEBT.
Universal and Anheuser-Busch previously spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to persuade the state to locate a bullet train station in the International Drive area to serve their parks and Orlando's mammoth convention center.
Disney, their largest competitor down the road, said if there was a station at International Drive, they wouldn't permit one at their parks. Since Disney promised to put more than 2-million of its customers on the train, Disney got what it wanted.
And now Universal officials say the high-speed rail is a bad idea.
"Their position is motivated totally by narrow self-interest," said Keith Rupp, president of the Florida Transportation Association, a pro-train group. "They supported high-speed rail when the question of (station placement) was still open. Now they're all concerned about taxpayer dollars. What are we supposed to think?"
Susan Lomax, spokeswoman for Universal, said the company is not trying to get back at the state or Disney by opposing the train. Universal supports transportation options for Florida, Lomax said, "but we don't think the route selected achieves that. We believe it's an ill-conceived transportation plan with high taxpayer expense."
The riders added by Disney will not make up for the riders lost because the train won't stop at International Drive before heading to Orlando International Airport, Lomax said.
Chairman August Busch III said this week that his company commissioned a study that found two additional lanes on Interstate 4 between Tampa and Orlando - the planned route for the first phase of the train project - would offer 14 times the capacity at 11 percent the cost of a high-speed train.
The second leg of the train would run from Orlando to Miami.
Removing the high-speed rail amendment from the constitution, where voters put it in 2000, will require collecting 488,000 signatures to put the matter on the ballot again in November and give voters a chance to change their minds.
Bush and Gallagher say the cost is too high and that the state, not private industry, will end up paying most of the cost. Gallagher declined Friday to speculate on Universal's motives for its contributions.
"I don't really look into why somebody contributes," he said. "I only care about the pluses and minuses to the state as a whole. As chief financial officer, that's my responsibility."
But he acknowledged that he wasn't surprised by reaction to the Universal donations.
"I'm sure it jumps off the page at you," he said. "We recognized that was going to happen."
Earlier this month, Hill Research Consultants of Texas conducted a poll of voter sentiment for Rupp's Florida Transportation Association. Hill contacted 1,003 voters in 29 counties along the Interstate 4 and Interstate 95 corridors on their support for a bullet trail and found that 53 percent supported it and 31 percent were opposed, a margin of 22 points. The poll's margin of error was 3.1 percent.
Nevertheless, Lois Hillman, one of the individual contributors to DEBT, said her $20 was well-spent.
"I'm not for it," she said Friday. "I don't think we need it. I don't think enough people will ride it."
[Last modified April 17, 2004, 01:50:35]
If not, what is the construction at orlando Int'l airport. There's what looks like a railroad ROW being constructed near terminal B. If its another airside shuttle, it looks like it leads to nowhere.
These theme parks, though I understand they're worried because they will lose business, are completely to blame.
If like the their PR people mention, and they truly cared about Florida, I don't remember seeing them petition in 2000. Where were they the 4 times LRT or a monorail was supposed to be COMPLETED by now. You know how much money has been spent on these non-existant rail lines that would've served them? More than a new start would cost today, and today its not 80% anymore, it's 50%!
Not to mention the LRT/monorail, which should be existing, would've connected to whatever route they picked. The situation is years in the making.
I still hate the route and how it is, but hey, it guarentees riders, and I know(though no one else does), I can get off at disney, and for $1.25 there's a bunch of buses that go right up I-4 to downtown. One to two buses away from everywhere(in a non-bus town).
I'm not sure what the construction. Maybe it's one of these projects
When did you see this anyway? They did create a few roads that go to nowhere recently....I forget the name of it, but there's one road that's the strangest drive I've ever done. But the width of the road is probably too wide to be mistaken for a train line I guess...and i'm not sure if you can see it from the airport.
By the way, were the interiors painted in an older livery as well? And were the numberplates on those cars removed to a lowered location on the side of the train?
I really hope they paint some into the "Snowbird" all white livery...that would be really nice. :-D
Oh well, it probably would have taken more time to get the interior repainted and the numberplate lowered as well.
Wished I could've gone. =(
It was well done.
Regards,
Jimmy
PS, loved taking that pic from the conductor's cab window.
For a second there I thought these were pieces of subway hardware... :)
Not to be picky, but by 1968 if not earlier, Whitehall was the south terminal of the Continental Ave EE train.
I'll be picky too here. The EE began with Chrystie in 1967.
Exactly. It was a terminal 1918-1920. It makes sense that it is formatted the way it is.
Now why did City Hall LL also have three tracks? Did they really need two places to be able to terminate trains? Or was the plan for Whitehall modified after they reconfigured City Hall?
Trains from Newark ended on the westbound track, and then left for Hoboken. Trains arriving from Hoboken would end on the eastbound track, and then depart to Newark.
What is your source for this?
Do the surviving Q cars have sill extensions.
If anyone has pictures of extensions (other than Lo-Vs that were used on the Culver and Franklin shuttles "to improve service," as the TA would say) on BMT elevated cars, then I'd have to admit my memory is faulty, at least in part.
Ed
Despite being an academic, I have a tendency not to talk when I have nothing to say, though there are times . . .
Frequently lurking,
8-)
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
As built, the Q's had no extended thresholds. They had to run on the Flushing Line to the '39 World's Fair, so they were the width as the IRT gate cars Low-V's, and '39 WF cars.
Sometime when they returned to the BMT after a stint on 3rd Ave, the thresholds were replaced with an extended one to compensate for the gap.. The Q in the Transit Museum still has the extended threshold as the one at TMNY.
Bill "Newkirk"
Elias
Elias
They are plates. They were added to the cars went they returned to the BMT. The plates are higher than the platform. The platforms from Broadway south would only clear nine-foot wide cars so the plates actually overode them. The platforms from Central Avenue north would clear ten foot wide cars so the plates helped to fill in the gap.
Larry,RedbirdR33
When the Q first returned to the BMT they made a brief appearance on the Franklin Avenue Shuttle on October 10, 1957 but they lasted less than a day, in part due to the gap between the cars and the platform.
Larry,RedbirdR33
That's not what I heard. I was told the brief visit by the Q's was because of employee sabotage. They wanted no part in running them.
Bill "Newkirk"
Were the cars on the Polo Grounds Shuttle wooden or steel?
Bob Sklar
I do not know the answer to that, but the line to the Polo Grounds was part of the 9th Avenue Line, an elevated line, not a subway line. Even if it did ride through a cave (a tunnel?) it was still not a *subway train*.
Or at least, that is my read on the issue.
Elais
I believe Q cars were the last cars used on the shuttle. They had a steel chassis with a concrete compostion flooring but the sides, ends and roofs were wood.
Were the cars on the Polo Grounds Shuttle wooden or steel?
Bob Sklar
I don't think any of the older 'L' cars (to use BMT terminology) had such sills, and none of the 1930s articulated cars did, either, even though they could operate on the elevated lines.
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New york
Hi Ed: The Q were the only ones that had plates added. However the C-Type conversions had skirts added at floor level to make them in effect ten-foot wide cars. The same was done to the IRT Lo-V's that were assigned to the BMT from 1959 to 1961. A few of these reamined on the BMT in work service throughout the sixties.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Never happened.
They are called "Gantlet" Tracks, though Gauntlet is also accepted as correct. Gantlet is MORE correct. : )
Imagine if you will a single track bridge with two lines on either side of the bridge. Rather than building switches to switch one of the lines to the other line and then back again to cross the bridge, they just install the frogs without any switch points. The lines ride on top of one another to cross the bridge, but they remain separate trackways and there is no option to switch them.
In the picture proposed for the Flushing/Astoria lines there would be two sets of rails, about six inches apart. the IRT would ride on the pair closer to the platform, and would contact the third rail on the paltform side, while the wider BMT cars would have run on the outsie pair of tracks, using the outside third rail. Then either train (The idea assumed) could platform correctly. In practice, I do not think that it could have worked. We are speaking of a six inch gap, and any gantlet track that I have seen usually has a foot or more of overlap.
I had thought about such a sontrivance for the Second Avenue Subway, so that express trains could by-pass stations at high speed on what is essentially a two track line. Each line would have four rails, with about a foot of separation between the "local track" and the "express track", this way an express train could by-pass a station about one foot away from the platform.
Obviously trains could not pass each other, but an express would leave 125th Street first, followed immediately by the local. The express would get to 59th street just on the heels of the previous local where it might divert into a four track station, and then pull out ahead of the waiting local.
But all of that is too complicated and otherwise just dumb. Either build a four track tunnel, or build a two track tunnel and run them all as locals.
Anyway, that is what a gantlet track is all about.
How are your cats?
Elias
// //PLATFORM
In the illustration above picture the red lines as the BMT's tracks , the green lines as the IRT's tracks , and the platform as the platform . The trains would run on the same tracks in all the tunnels , but at the stations there would be small switches that would send the IRT trains to the "green tracks" and the BMT trains to the "red tracks" so there would be no gap at the platforms . Then after the station they would rejoin the same tracks until the next station where it's repeated . It would work well , however the chance of human error is high . I can see a BMT sized car accidentally taking the "green track" by accident if someone dropps the ball .
I did notice (while looking at the Time Square shuttle, that the IRT 3rd rail actually extends slightly under the platform as compared to BMT/IND 3rd rail.
That paint job DOES look "plastic" ...
I had a nice introduction to the consist riding a 4 downtown into 42nd- it was passing through on the local track on its way to reverse to the Shuttle platform. Funny how it wasn't all that long ago that mainline Redbirds were still running in revenue on that trackage. They lasted on the 6 all through 2001 (not counting a Parkchester rush-hour special through summer 2002) and on the midnight 4 locals into 2003. Naturally, some people waiting for the downtown 6 fully expected to board this train and were quite indignant when it went through without stopping.
There was some fellow videotaping the consist passing through who whooped and hollered ecstatically all the way up the stairs and through the shuttle passageway after doing so. Might anyone know who that was?
I forgot how great the cars looked freshly repainted grey and blue. As a foaming ten-year-old when this first occurred in 1970, I assumed they were 'new IRT trains' at last. Of course, once I saw the same fiberglass grey seats and lack of A/C- not to mention the onset of graffiti- was the truth realized.
Frank Hicks
We can only hope and pray....and maybe send donations for the cause???
wayne
til next time
Does the NYCT give its C/Rs sheets to inform them of major GOs on other lines? If these documents exist, do the C/Rs bother to read them and make the correct announcements? Somehow, I suspect the answer to the last two questions is "no". Perhaps Newkirk Plaza David should be hired for that position, and as NYCT proofreader (unless neither WMATA or Ride-On get me first in which case I might have to venture north).
-Chris
Thank you for your help.
flushing7
You need a car or motorcycle to use it though.
South of 40th Street, it is continued as a tunnel to 33rd Street.
Regards,
Jimmy
I don't know. I was there yesterday on the J platform. I was sitting on my J waiting to leave. Our doors closed as the incoming J (the one to leave behind us) open its doors upon arrival, and we were leaving instantly as that train stopped. I've never seen that before but then again I don't have too much experience observing various terminals and terminal types. Just an observation.
I don't think the J is as bad as the E train, which I assume you are talking about. I say Flatbush Av, 71 Av/Forest Hills, 242 St/Van Cortlandt, Brighton Beach and 57 St/7 Av are inefficient terminals. Stations like South Ferry & Brooklyn Bridge are efficient terminals IMO.
Actually, not. They are NOT terminals, they are stations like any other station along their route. The crew does not get a break, they do not even dump air. All they do is change the front roll sign (And not even that any more!) and keep on going.
Elias
Do the change the crews there?
;-)
The MTA advertises South Ferry as a terminal. It is shown as a terminal on the rollsigns and in the published schedule. The public neither knows nor cares whether there is a crew change at that point, or whether they dump air.
That's all fine and dandy, but as others have said, it's still not a terminal!!!
Chambers St is a terminal; Brooklyn Bridge is a terminal.
See http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/submap.htm
I can grant you that, but the thread is on "Terminal Effiency", and South Ferry is not a terminal in that sense. You cannot compare the trunaround speeds in South Ferry or Brooklyn Bridge with any other "terminal".
From the viewpoint of efficency these are not terminals at all.
Elias
The platform on the inner loop at South Ferry is now used as an office.
No. The discussion at issue is the efficency of moving equipment in and out of different terminal arrangements: switching, interlocking, and recharging issues. None of these apply to South Ferry or to Brooklyn Bridge. As far as switching, interlocking and recharging issues are concerned, South Ferry and City Hall : ) are just another station stop.
My extension of the (7) train to Northern Boulevard *is* a full fledged terminal, albeit on a loop.
This is a two track line with side platforms through Parsons, then becomes two Island platforms at Northern: two tracks on the "arriving" platform, a two to four track loop, and then two tracks on the "departing" platform.
No mater what anybody else does with this lion, the eastern terminal will never again be the cause of a bottleneck!
: ) Elias
WHERE DO B TRAINS GO WHEN THEY TERMINATE @ BEDFORD PARK
WHERE DO C TRAINS GO WHEN THEY TERMINATE @ EUCLID AVE
Shhh.... I heard you the first time.
They relay at 76th Street.
: ) Elias
Times Square on the 7 handles slightly more trains per hour than Brooklyn Bridge, probably 27 vs. 24.
Is that because Times Square is a more efficient terminal, or is it because--for other reasons--Brooklyn Bridge only sees 24tph?
Terminals that require trains to change direction have two additional delay factors: the time that both incoming and outgoing trains use a common interlocking and the time it takes a train to change directions (recharging brakes). The nominal time for a train to recharge brakes is 50 seconds.
Stub terminals (with the interlocking before the terminal) come in two flavors: ending with a bumper block or ending with tail tracks. Bumper blocks limit the speed of incoming trains to 5 mph; tail tracks permit trains to enter the terminal at speed (10 mph). This affects the amount of time that incoming trains take clearing the interlocking. Incoming trains take take 100 seconds to clear the interlocking compared at bumper block termainals compared to 50 seconds for tail track terminals. This limits bumper track terminals to 24 tph and tail track terminals to 36 tph. Both limits have been achieved historically by the TA. However, currently the max for a bumper block terminal is 15 tph and 28 tph for a tail track terminal. The only example of a tail track terminal is Times Sq on the Flushing Line.
Relay terminals (with the interlocking after the terminal) are essentially tail track terminals. The difference is that direction is changed after the terminal. The problem is the TA's current fumigation policy for incoming trains. This takes raises the incoming train's dwell time to something between 3 and 4 minutes. Relay terminals provide another operational problem due to the time required to recharge the brake system. If switchmen are used to perform the relay, then 3 separate recharge operations are required. If the T/O's are used, then the time spent during the relay must be added to the run time in labor costs.
There are at least three changes that can be made to improve stub terminal capacity. First would be to use switches that permit faster movement over them. Second would be to improve emergency braking capability so that bumper blocks could be approached at a faster speed. Third would be to permit trains to change direction and/or operator without the need to dump and recharge the brakes.
Park Row and Sands St (lower level) during the cable car days were probably the most efficient terminals. It was a combination stub and relay terminal with tail tracks, segregated entrance/exit platforms and double tracks for the terminal. It ran 90 tph peak at its height.
This worked at LEAST on the arnines and the LoV's (and probably other older cars as well - sorry, never operated any of THOSE) ... even worked nicely for relaying as long as there was a switchman on the other end. When you pulled in to a stop (including relays), you'd center your reverser, drop the controller and pull your handle out. NO DUMPING required! As soon as your person on the other end put in their handle, they were ready to take power and go almost as quickly as you'd stopped. That's another thing lacking in modern equipment, that "penalty charge" ... there goes your TPH ...
Thought you might find this aspect interesting as probably nobody working the rails today ever had the luxury of this ... even when you dumped BIE, you could recharge in seconds and go again compared to whatever the penalty time is today. But as far as terminals and relaying went, the actual delay was boarding as LONG as you had someone on the other end rady to move it. No switchman, you had to change ends yourself. But even here, the train remained charged until you got there.
Field shunting on the other hand is weakening of the magnetic field in the traction motors so that they can go faster than they would normally by reducing the magnetic field, thus getting more speed out of them. There's a point of no return where the magnetic force provided and the "back EMF" or "reverse magnetic force" of an electric motor reaches "balance" (also referred to as "balancing speed") and with field shunting, once the motor was twirling for all it could give, you could not cross this boundary. Field shunting changes the equation.
If you'd like to learn more about how traction motors (and field shunting) work, this is a GREAT site that explains it all ...
http://www.trainweb.org/railwaytechnical/tract-01.html
And yeah, I was talking solely about the ME23's ... always loved cars where you could step out of the cab while the train coasted at speed. Try THAT on a SMEE. (grin)
Also, Brooklyn Bridge is indistinguishable from South Ferry as a loop terminal in that they don't "fumigate" the 6 at BB. In fact, it's faster because the traffic lvels are lower. The 6 is usually relatively empty arriving at BB, while the 1 isn't at SF.
I've seen 6s at BB exhibit shorter dwell times than 4/5s that came in at the same time. The 4/5 would wait for the passengers from the 6 to board, but the 6 would close its doors and move out as soon as it was empty.
Brake recharge time reduces the capacity of a single track stub terminal. It also reduces the capacity of a two track stub terminal to the extent that the recharge time exceeds the total time it takes for the other track to clear and have a train enter. The limiting factor is the max of: interlocking time; dwell time and recharge time.
Brooklyn Bridge is indistinguishable from South Ferry as a loop terminal in that they don't "fumigate" the 6 at BB...I've seen 6s at BB exhibit shorter dwell times than 4/5s that came in at the same time.
If they no longer fumigate, then it is a loop.
And since interlocking time is at least 100 seconds (50 in and 50 for the other train to go out), that's always more than recharge time, isn't it?
Similarly, there isn't any terminal where more than 100 seconds of dwell time are needed to discharge/load.
Interlockings are availble that permit much higher speed (20-25 mph). That would bring the interlocking time down to around 50 seconds. At this point the recharge time would exceed interlocking time.
There is also the case wherein a faulty train is being held in a terminal, essentially making it a one track terminal. Brake recharge time becomes the limiting factor because dwell time seldom approaches 50 seconds.
Don't they? People are told to leave the train at BB.
Elias
I think you can do the same thing with a relay terminal if you designed it like this:
[outbound platform]
--------------------------------------------------------------------|
\ / \
\ / ----------------------------------|
\/ /
--------------------------------------------------------------------|
[inbound platform]
If you want high throughput, you don't want to wait on crossing moves and you don't want to change ends of the train which are two reasons why loops are the ideal. And don't forget that in addition to more trains per hour (higher throughput), a more efficient terminal also means fewer trains (and crews) are needed to run a line (assuming only differences in terminal designs).
>A loop terminal with multiple tracks and segregated exit and entrance
>platforms, e.g. Sands St, have more than twice that capacity
Having multiple tracks on loops increase capacity - thats right - but
when only a two track line is connected to the loop you can only turn
the number of trains that are possible to run on the line.
The capacity without stopping for stations is much greater than with stations present. Consider a train operating at 48 mph. It's stopping time at 3 mph/sec braking rate is 16 seconds and its stopping distance is 565 feet. Give a safety margin of 35% and you have 1362 feet between the fronts of trains going at 48 mph. That comes out to 186 tph.
The tracks over the Brooklyn Bridge operated at 90 tph peak. The limiting factor was a weight restriction on the bridge, not controlling the trains' relative position to one another.
No, they operated under mechanical control system that kept the distance between trains and their speed constant between Park Row and Sands St.
By rule, 10 mph entering a terminal ending in a bumping block, and entering a terminal with tail tracks is not limited to 10 mph. Timers or posted limits may be in place, and if crossing a switch, its 10 miles or as posted.
Q entering 57/7 on A3 Track - no block, 13mph posted switch;
D, prior to 2/22/04, entering 34/6 on B4 Track - no block, 20 mph posted switch
B entering Bedford Pk on C3/4 Track (middle) - no block, no switch.
The TA's nominal capacity (without fumigation) is 60 tph.
How was the arrangement of 169th st when it was a terminal for about 20 years?
It was a relay terminal. Look at the track map.
4/24/37 - E Train extended to 169th St
12/15/40 - F Train to Parsons Blvd
1/10/44 - F Train to 169th, evenings and nights
12/11/50 - E train and Evening/night F train extended to 179th St
5/13/51 - F train extended to 179th St Sat and Sun
10/18/51 - F train extended to 179th St rush hours
Please place as many of my photos on your site as you want. Unforunatley, they dont all have descriptions on them, but they are mostly Manhattan subway stations and Queensboro Plaza, Roosevelt Is and SIRT. If you dont know what they are, you can even put them in the Unidentified Photos Redux section (I know, i can identify them, but its something for my fellow subtalkers to do).
The gallery is Here
Also, If you can, please put a link to my website in the links page.
http://www.freewebs.com/siny_r143
Thanks for reading Dave.
-Chris
If you want me to consider your photos for the site, you're going to have to send them to me. I *do not* have the time to browse the web for photos and then ask to use them. Sorry!
Dave
If you contact me first we can talk about arrangements.
http://www.freewebs.com/siny_r143
Its not much, but it would be kinda cool.
Thanks.
-Chris
No, the correction was a mistake on the itinerary; I think it said to get off at "Livonia Ave" to get ahead of the train for photographs. Should have read New Lots.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Koi
Like this? Crew members were seen peeling off current logos throughout the trip...
...oh wait, nevermind.
til next time
And the A isn't the champion -- the F is at 45 trainsets.
David
So there :-)
David
1- Monday May 31(Memorial Day)- Brooklyn On The Brighton from 57 Street (and?) along the Brighton Line to Stillwell Ave via Coney Island Yard, using prewar cars (didn't specify which although I assume it will be the R-9 set).
2- Sunday June 20- Kings Of Queens- From Times Square to Astoria and Flushing via the Steinway Tube using the same equipment from this weekends trips.
zzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
til next time
Now, If the TM was to sponser a Low-V or B division SMEE trip, I'd go.
til next time
Will it be doing that again anytime soon ( and not during school hours)?
http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/track/smbrooklyn.gif
Southbound the diamond crossover is south of the station.
Northbound the diamond crossover is north of the station.
Utica Ave is a two level station, but that track map shows the upper level on top of the lower. That map is a little misleading.
Eastern Parkway runs approx east-west, then veers in a northeasternly direction towards Atlantic Ave.
The IRT subway runs underneath Eastern Parkway, with Utica as the intersecting station. How can you say the switches are north and south of the station when the line runs east-west? Unless there are switches on Utica Ave in the first place that I've never heard of.
Because with NYCT things are either Northbound or Southbound, no matter what the actual physical orientation of the line is at that point. There is no East or West in Transit.
An 8th Ave bound L at 6th Avenue is Northbound. A Canarsie Bound L is Southbound.
A Times Sq at Grand Central bound #7 is Northbound.
Get it?
On the TS/GC shuttle, which station is north and which station is south. And if I take the shuttle from Grand Central towards Times Square, am I traveling Northbound or Southbound? (forget about the original 1904 route for a minute.)
North on the S from GCT to TSQ, then North on the 7 back to GCT.
The only other place I know of where you can do that is in London - North on the Northern Line from KXSP to Euston, then North on the Victoria Line back to KXSP. Any other instances?
My best guess is that it was done in the name of uniformity. BTW this naming scheme predates the MTA.
Anyway. Manhattan is narrow and long, so invariably your major lines will run north and south. The primary axis in Queens and Eastern Brooklyn is east-west, and so the BMT Eastern division ran from east to west. That's been decimated, so it makes no sense having only two lines of the entire system run east-west when everything runs north-south.
Flushing as north is also not illogical. Remember the Second Avenue El.
This practice occurs in railroads everywhere. In the B&O days, St. George on the SIRT was west and Tottenville was east even though that is the reverse of how it really is because the Tottenville line was considered extending from the North Shore line which connected to the CNJ and thus the rest of the B&O network. This has been changed to north and south.
The NYC had The Hudson and Harlem lines go East towards Grand Central and West away from it, because the lines would eventually go west to Chicago. The NH was the opposite, with eastbound being away from Grand Central. Metro-North considers it all North and South now. I think Amtrak considers the route through Connecticut as north and south too.
And then there is Rogers Junction, just east of Franklin Ave because the 5 on the express track will still have to cross over the 2 and 4 local track anyway. Having one junction is acceptable, considering the way the IRT was built. Making Atlantic Ave a full time switching point is unacceptable, especially during rush hour.
You can also find out by clicking view then source.
Note, don't put the asterisks in, it was just to show you how to do it. The first one requires < and > instead of the /'s at the beginning.
Hope that helps,
(4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Try practicing your html somewhere else eh?
But FronPage or Adobe GoLive *ARE* HTML editors, and you STILL need to know something about HTML before you can use these tools correctly.
The more you want from these tools the more you need to know about HTML.
Elias
You kinda need to put a web address after the equals sign in the tag, i.e. "http://www.foamersupreme.com/images/clip_image002.jpeg" . . .
From this you will find out that you have to post your images or pages on a web server somewhere.
There are free webservers that you could use, such as GeoCities or Tripod, but these block refrences to images from outside sources. You could put your picture on a blank HTML page, and then reference that page from an outside source. That would require a click on and could not be an inline image.
There are free photo albums.
You could pay for web space from your ISP, in which case you probably reference a photo directly.
You could pay for web space from a provider such as Webmasters.com.
Or you could run a web server right on your own computer. But to do this, you absolutly must know what you are doing.
You could download a free copy of Apache Web Server, or you could use the IIS webserver that is a part of your windows XP operating system. (It is not loaded by default, but you could load it rom your system disk.) Beyond that there are a few more things you need:
1) an ISP that will allow you to run a server
(Dial-up is not appropriate, Cable does not usually permit this, DSL is usually OK, otherwise you need a T-1 line.)
2) a static IP number
3) a firewall
Elias
NEXT, upload pics from your computer into your online galleries.
THEN, copy the link of your photo. Ex:http://www.transitgallery.com/data/b53b3a3d6ab90ce0268229151c9bde11/full_217_p9590.jpg
FINALLY, paste the image link where the * is!
<img src=*>
And voilà!
-Chris
Boy oh boy these days you need a Hummer to get around, because ya dont know when the Bacon is gonna have another anxiety attack!
The same thing happened on a bus in largo, Florida last week. They evactuated the bus, and called in teh tampa bomb squad, 40 minutes away in the next county.
The bag contained headphones and some cd's, and the guy came back for it. Who's going to blow up a bus here??
I would simply think someone forgot a bag. My concern is, at what point is it now suspect?
Rush hour though, i could see changing the cirumstances, but how do you make the call?
Rush hour train? maybe. Random bus? doubt it. Is paranoia a good thing?
I'm sure if they didn't use caution and the bag blew up killing people and/or damaging property you would be the first to complain that they didn't have any kind of protocols in place to prevent that kind of thing from happening.
Give me a break.
But its sorta nice to know the cops have your back even when not fighting terrorism.
John, any time a suspicious package is located, I'd rather that the proper authorities treat it as a potentially dangerous item until proven otherwise. Most people have enough to live for so that they don't mind minor inconvenience in exchange for safety or security. The problem is that because you have such a sub-standard quality of life, you don't have much to lose so you don't care. My problem is to respond to you without getting angry. I just don't understand why you have the problem you do with the same governmental authority that supports you in your loser existance. Nope, I can't do it, John. You are a freakin loser. But the next time you get your lights punched out or someone puts a gun to your head and takes your money (that you get from the taxpayers) and your precious camera (also paid for by the taxpayers), see if you have the courage of your convictions. DON'T CALL A "DIAPER WEARING COP". Call for mommy, you loser.
PS: Sorry Barb - !!!
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if crime rates rise with all the cops assigned to "terrorist" duty. Possibly in another year or two there'll be enough statistics out to tell.
Not too many cops ever were hired as a result of the "100,000 cops" program and few if any had to be fired afterwards.
Antiterror squads in places like Tyler no doubt are mainly municipal ego boosts.
It's portions of the general public who are overly fearful. Politicans and the high levels of the Police Dept react to that excessive fear, with the result that there are mass evacuations whenever anyone forgets a backpack.
There are things wrong with society you can blame the police for, but this sure isn't one of them.
a bomb killing people will just have to take presidence over a homeless man smelling up the area you are in. get used to it and stop this bitching about it
Maybe you should rethink that so called amusing statement. You just may need a diaper wearing cop the next time you're surrounded by gantas looking to relieve you of your money and camera. Of course, the best course of action is to be in a secure indoor environment working at a desk. The gantas won't bother you there.
Bill "Newkirk"
wayne
Anyway, I wonder what was done with the sandwich and two beers. Did anyone decide to get drunk on the beers?
It also listed Times Square on one roll sign as the north temrinal and Ditmars on another. So whoever was doing the roll signs must have had a bad day, or else vandals were fooling around.
I saw that train today. There's a nighttime GO going on that has N trains terminating at Times Square, so that sign was probably forgotten.
I've seen Special quite a few times, North Terminal and South Terminal only rarely.
It might be more useful to replace all of them with Listen for Announcements (even though most people don't).
I'm taking a wild guess that the reason for north and south terminal, printed in large letters is to sub for a terminal not listed on the rollsign. I guess it's better than a blank reading. But, it still makes no sense to me.
Bill "Newkirk"
I usually see the Special on R42 front rolls and R62A side signs. As for your suggestion, people don't like to read signs so its useless ;-)
That is unless the signs are printed upside down.
Compare/Contrast
Sea Beach Fred does, he has a few bucks to fly cross country to ride the first Sea Beach train over the Manhattan Bridge and go home !
You'll both travel cross country by Greyhound Bus to save money, but hey, you'll have lots to talk about. By NYC you'll both have the bus to yourselves, passengers evacuating because of overhearing all that "subway" talk. LOL !!
Bill "Newkirk"
How about not insulting my rolling stock, thank you.
That's not true at all. Stop posting absolute lies.
Not the first time he's been a cab. Don yer vest pleeze !
Bill "Newkirk"
Hang the camcorder from your neck fer krimminy's sake ... we're talking RIGHT hand - push handle to window. We're talking LEFT HAND DOWN, move reverser key forward ... we're talking PULL ... "clunk, clunk clunk" ... "WE BOOGYING!" But we also BETTER be talking "red ahead, clunk-clunk-clunk, RIGHT HAND ... parallel with rails, LAP! Release! Pull, lap, release until a smooth stop."
The videos and the photos are nice ... TRULY ... but there's NOTHING better than "handle time" ... GET some on ya. :)
In fact, the reason for the chain on it was so that you could hook it to your reverser key because you'd tend to forget that it was there otherwise ... that's why you'd chain it to something you wouldn't forget to pull as you left the cab. :)
Seriously, of COURSE ... butt plug DOES have chain, reverser does have ring - sounded like a normal lashup to me. Don't wanna leave toys behind should I decide to take a train ... literally. =)
Someone else can explain it better than I. Kev?
Pretty simple actually - without electric assist, you need to wait for air to propagate down the brake pipe from car to car when an application or release is taken - this is how it works in "real railroads" and this can result in slow braking, "slack action" where the cars up front apply brake before the cars to the rear, resulting in bunching and thumping and the same with release - from the front to the back when using the standard railroad "triple valve" braking system.
AMUE overlaid "electric assist" on the traditional scheme where a trainlined control signal allows EACH car to activate its valves simultaneously. In effect, the "electric assist" circumvents the air propagation delay by allowing each car to have its braking and release controlled electrically. When the "butt plug" is out, then braking is by standard triple valve operation with all its problems in a multicar MU situation - and with it in, the electric relays provide faster action ...
Jeff H or anyone else want to kick in some more explicit details? :)
Whenever I get some bucks together to get down there again, would LOVE to see the manual and learn a bit more about what was "out of title" when I did my gig on them. I'm more interested in how they worked nowadays than just riding 'em. :)
When I'd stop, I was able to move the brak handle forward to the "hold" position (not to be confused with holding air in "lap") and I'd get a release ... the "electric holding" though held the train in place until I got indication, whereupon slap the handle to the window and wrap ... you didn't hear very much air let go and the train would take off.
What exactly was going on there? Was there like a "snow brake" worth of hold on the wheels in that position? How did THAT work?
The advantage of having a holding position is that the brake
pipe is fully re-charged and the train is ready to get rolling,
with just a slight reduction needed for prompt application.
Without electric holding, you'd have to start running with less
than fully charged auxiliary reservoirs, or, you'd leave the handle
in release during the station stop and risk rolling.
My deepest appreciation for the details - and my apologies for my going off topic most of the time - alas, things like *THIS* are what I'm into. I did motor schoolcar at age 19 and didn't really CARE at the time, posted when I turned 20 and never really absorbed much of this. Now I'm TREMENDOUSLY interested in the technicals on the old girls, but few others here are interested in any of this. I often find that the only things I can really share with any authority here usually are the political and civil service aspects. I'm not really up on much else of what's going on there these days. But I *do* love my arnines, not that many others care or even know (or WANT to) much about them.
THANKS!!! =)
I'm interested in all the "nuts & bolts" of anything electric and on rails.
It's things like this that make SubTalk great.
Thanks for the PLEASANT thought "tonight" for me. =)
I'm interested in all the "nuts & bolts" of anything electric and on rails.
It's things like this that make SubTalk great.
Everything else is WH.
6144 at Seashore is a WH VA, I believe.
That's why it got the Baltimore number 7303.
Unfortunately, that'll only happen in your dreams, especially with the original air brake compressors.
1) Judging by photo, silver paint looks glossier than when they painted them in the 70's.
2) The door leaf windows look strange with those vandal proof window frames. Back in the 70's they had the black rubber gasket which contrasted.
3) Disappointed that they didn't lower the number boards. The number boards are lowered on the museum cars (R-12,15,17,33).
4) Front roll signs, if they had time to do a search, some of the reefed redbirds had first generation route and destination signs to add more accuracy. They must have a bunch of those sign boxes somewhere, they didn't all go down with the ships.
5) Although it couldn't have been helped, the side European style vent windows really look weird, since we're all used to the drop sashes.
Bill "Newkirk"
Scuttlebutt says that may be on the horizon. Keep your fingers crossed.
Bill "Newkirk"
I'm with you bro'. You have another pair of ML R-33's used on that trip that can have that boring redbird paint covered over with tartar red. And don't forget to paint the grab handles yellow !
On that Saturday trip, they should have had the WF R-33's #9306 and #9307 coupled together.
Bill "Newkirk"
Bill "Newkirk"
Bill: I spoke to Bill Wall on that fantrip and he said that they intend to repaint the other R-33ML set,9016-7, in the bright Tartar Red paint scheme this week and use it on next weeks thip. He said that they found a sample of the paint on the R-33 itself. Apparently they missed a small section when the cars were repainted. Now they can mix up a batch of paint to match that color.
Now everyone will know why we called them "Redbirds" from the beginning.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Instead of calling it the museum train they can call it the rainbow train. A real throwback to the early 70's when every consist was a mixed bag of colors.
Bill "Newkirk"
Bill: It was like a 1970's IRT train in more ways than one. We had six different paint schemes and five types of cars; 1-R 12, 1-R 15, 1-R 17, 2 R-33WF and 4 R-33 ML.
Larry,RedbirdR33
Hard to see something in person when it's not yourself, right? ;->
#3 West End Jeff
It was 74º!
I liked all but the 2 Whitlock Ave shots.
Well I'll be, you're right. Well I like 10, 8, 4, 3, and 1. 2 and 5 shoulda been cropped, 6 is too narrow an angle, and 7 & 9 are too fuzzy.
Da Hui
LincolN's 4.17.04 MOD Photo Album
I got this fucking self-serving, self-righteous email from the webmaster mumbling something like: "There is no profanity allowed on Railroad.net... Please refrain from using these expressions in the future." Fucking assholes. I'm fucking mad, and I'm not posting there anymore.
OK, I realize I am acting like (4)traintowoodlawn, but hey, we all have our inner child, don't we? I am just happy that Dave Pirmann doesn't seem to mind our occasional fucking bad ass language here and there, to make a point about trains.
AEM7
Given the tenor though of our Taliban administration in DC, the use of those words that Colin's little Powell DARE not hear at the FCC might well be prosecuted soon. And the use of profanity HERE causes "filter software" to reject the site entirely. And what good would THAT do? :(
That's the reason why I choose my alternate words very carefully so as to not trip the Taliban trap doors ... them suckers is hard to spot until the pupe choot opens and down we all go. :(
I have a sad story to tell you.
It may hurt your feelings a bit.
last night, when I walked in my bathroom,
I stepped in a pile of...
Shaving cream, be nice and clean!
Shave every day, and you'll always look keen.
I think I'll break up with my girlfriend.
Her antics are queer, I'll admit.
Each time I say "Darling, I love you,"
She tells me that I'm full of...
Shaving cream, be nice and clean!
Shave every day, and you'll always look keen.
A baby fell out of the window.
You'd think that her head would be split.
But good luck was with her that morning.
She fell in a barrel of...
Shaving cream, be nice and clean!
Shave every day, and you'll always look keen.
When I was in France with the Army,
One day I looked into my kit.
I thought I would find me a sandwich,
But the darn thing was loaded with...
Shaving cream, be nice and clean!
Shave every day, and you'll always look keen.
And now, folks, my story is ended.
I think it is time I should quit.
If any of you feel offended,
Stick your head in a barrel of...
Shaving cream, be nice and clean!
Shave every day, and you'll always look keen.
...doesn't seem to mind our occasional fucking bad ass language here and there, to make a point about trains.
after similar sentences before that, you can see that the post was totally to try to get a rise out of people. That's what I found "immature", not the words. Words are words, who cares.
I don't even know why I even got involved in a nonsense thread like this.
Oh, if only our fellow citizens could just ignore the words ... they cease to have meaning when they no longer offend. I suspect that's where AEM was coming from whether maturely or not. But given the realities, and the great McCarthy-like wave of censorship (I can just imagine the expansion of government required to create a "Hayes board" for the internet) the words used could be harmful to this site (and is probably the reason why the mods at railroad.net blew a shoe fuse in the FIRST place) ...
Under the current interpretations by Powell's little Colin, broadcasters are being slapped with MULTIPLE fines. What's to stop these same people (citing the "Communications Act" which CAN be extended to the "internet") from coming down on Dave or any other webmaster for the CONTENT and WORD CHOICES of those who would use it.
A lot of folks don't remember the old "BBS days" which used modems before the "Al Gorenet" ... ***I*** was prosecuted by New York State for running a BBS where folks were free to express themselves in any ways or words they saw fit, WITHOUT censorship. The STATE OF NEW YORK came AFTER me for it, citing federal law for obscenity on the TELEPHONE via modem! No joke ... That's the reason why I'm so passionate about so many "Taliban" leadings of our lawgivers and "regime" ...
But agreed, the ravings were over the top ... then so are mine. That's why *I* rant so much about politicians being FULL of ...
Shaving cream, be nice and clean!
Shave every day, and you'll always look keen. :)
The Book of Proverbs says "Death and life are in the power of the tongue . . . " and that is oh-so-true. Words more than blows start wars.
http://www.krellan.com/demento/
Site above STILL has his radio show on the air ... :)
I liked his song "The old Canarsie Line" better. That was funny.
"On the old Canarsie Line, the old Canarsie Line
it sounded like a jet,and yet it never came on time"
Bill "Newkirk"
And yes indeed ... geeba geeba ... as I've always said, "NEVER take life too seriously and BEWARE of those who do." :)
They also don't tolerate flame wars and other nonsense. Besides, it's the webmasters site and he can call the shots as he sees fit.
Bill "Newkirk"
AEM7
One SubTalker in particular would like that ...
Back in the days (2000 or so to November or December of 2001) when John Stewart in Rochester ran the site it was just like Subtalk, an HTML board that was easy to use, simple to read, and very bare bones. My favorite feature of of Railroad.net Mod 0 were two boxes under the message composition area which allowed you to post a HTML link and an Image without knowing any HTML. To me, a complete n00b to internet message boards, this was great, and is possibly something Mr. Pirmann might want to think about in light of recent disasterous attempts at HTML by some of the noobies. Of course then along came Crazy Nip and the rejects from Trainorders.com after that site went pay. They succeded in attaching so much BS to the board, such as 5 minute wavs and animated gifs where they cursed each other out, that people started worrying about viruses. John Stewart shut down the site after threats of lawsuits and claims of harassment. That ended Railroad.net Mod 0.
Mod 1 started in April of 2002 I think, the site had been gone for some 6 months, over the same time that Subtalk had had it's hiatus (what was that, 6 weeks? 2 months?). During that time I went off and found Mr. Beck's Other Side Of The Tracks messageboard as an interim to RR.net, and from there I funneled back into Subtalk with the other temporary residents of that board when Subtalk returned. Anyway, that's how I wound up here. RR.net Mod 1 was a nightmare, it had limited everything, for example, you had to log in to post, but it'd logout after a given time, so if you composed a long post, hit "post message" and got logged out, you were SOL. It crashed frequently, going down for weeks on end with no one able to post to it. However, for all it's faults, I still have to say I liked the format, it was simple to read, lacking all those BS photos and crap, it was fairly simple to post to, so long as you made sure you copied your post to Notepad or something before clicking "Post Message." My only real gripe about Mod1 was that it limited you to only 1 HTML link, and no HTML, UBB, or anything else could be used in your post, however in light of the reason for the shutdown coming from idiots posting massive files which might contain any number of Malware things, there is little surprise that they were so controlling in that respect. Also, the moderators on the Mod 1 version were a bit more serious, I actually received a threatening Email for the following comment:
(Dear god I'm making catenary lovers everywhere sound like it's a cult thing, or possibly a low-rate religion! Oh wait, it is a religion, Cat-lick! 11.5kv AC at some 500 amps flowing through your tongue and out your grounded feet is bound to produce a religious effect ;) ), after a bible-thumper read my heretic paragraph and decided to email the Moderator and complain about me. Nothing came of it, I apologized to the Mod, and never was bothered again.
Of course the one big problem with the Mod 1 version of Railroad.net was that the forums themselves sucked on a basic level. The servers couldn't keep up with the demand, and finally the whole system just about up and died about 2 months or so ago now I believe. The forum has now returned in the Mod2 iteration, with a board crowded with Avatars, using php or something, no real connection between the railroad.net homepage and the forums, and an astoundingly frustrating color scheme (I was a big fan of the green and white). The main forum page is now confused by having all the forums displayed at once in a completely disordered fashion. I will admit that it allows more control over the content and formatting of the post, but it seems to me that Railroad.net has finally completed the transformation that Crazy Nip and the rest started 3 or so years ago.
RIP Railroad.net Mod 0
That's the problem, I think. People who can't deal start yelling harrassment or whatever, and then the whole thing is gone. You know, I wonder if people should generally be roughed up a little by their parents and siblings in their upbringing so that they know how to tell a real threat from an idle one.
Two of the boards in Baltimore, Adam Paul's site and a Soccer site use it.
It's not threaded, you can't directly reply to any post but the one you are reading.
It's kind of clunky and Adam's crashed once, but not to anyone's post. It just crashed and he had to rebuild it.
Click on 9306 to enter:
I will be posting the choice photos in a little while.
But I prefur the R142A's over the R33's anyday. But the R33 looks verry nice and that's all I have to say
The Redbirds are running past the Triangle train!
To the eye they look about the same, but through a camera they look different. The Bombardier LEDs often look deformed.
You can't see it's LED, but the train on the left was an R-142a.
Here's a picture of that train, and it's clearer LED:
You took some really great photos this trip.
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
And to prove the museum cars could run under their own power ;^)
Needless to say I don't plan on missing any more of them. :)
#3 West End Jeff
--Mark
The (%) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Incognito
*$/%@ #!&^$^
And not far behind, is one of these:
You are insane. ;)
OMG
WTFBBQ!!!!!
By Chris Slaight
-Chris
http://siteordo.online.fr/i/z/prince.jpg
what would you call that train?
"Change here for the #$%&*! train!"
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
WASHINGTON (AP) - Metro officials plan to review the transit agency's closed-door restroom policy, Police Chief Polly Hanson said.
Monday, Hanson said she will consider reopening subway station bathrooms to passengers.
"My desire is to get them opened, and not to keep them closed any longer than we have to," she added.
Restrooms in 83 stations have been closed since March 19 because of security concerns.
Hanson said last month they would be shut whenever the national alert level was raised to orange or above, when there was a terrorist threat to rail systems, or following a worldwide or domestic attack.
Metro officials also said they would review the policy if the restrooms were closed longer than 30 days.
Hanson said she considered reopening them earlier this month, but decided against it after receiving new threat information.
(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
So, what is the adult diaper industries stance on this?
Here is the self cleaning toilet at Huntington, it was out of service when I photographed it.
Does he also provide a clean towel and mint, and if so, do I have to tip him?
:)
Still, the Huntington restroom remaining open is odd when you think about the rest of the system's restrooms being closed.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Just kidding, can't wait for it to be online. :-)
So this is where Saddam hid the WMD?
Problem two: Streetcar critics still going at it about funding practices from TWO years ago. Get over it!
The rail project itself is under a million, and bus system improvements is $390 which brings the total to 1.4bil
ALSO, HARTline estimates 30,000 people using it(new riders), but the FTA has the number at 38,000 new riders!!!
Hopefully this won't be failed project #4 during this administration.
----------------
TampaRail project
TAMPA - The Tampa Rail Project dodged a bullet this month in a vote some transit leaders say could have proved fatal.
Just how alive the light rail proposal is, however, remains to be seen.
``I have grave concerns,'' said Jan Platt, a Hillsborough County commissioner on the board of the Hillsborough Area Regional Transit Authority.
``We really don't know what's going to happen,'' said Lucie Ayer, head of the Hillsborough Metropolitan Planning Organization.
After years of studies and public hearings, the transit board voted in October 2001 to build a 20-mile light rail system connecting downtown Tampa and Ybor City with the West Shore business district and the University of South Florida.
The HARTline vote didn't open any checkbooks, though, and funding for the $1.4 billion project is elusive.
Half of that money, more than $700 million, is supposed to come from the Federal Transit Administration, which approved the project a year ago. The agency has not specifically recommended funding the project, however, citing a lack of local support.
HARTline suggested that more than one-third of the project's cost could be funded with a local sales tax increase that has not reached a public ballot for consideration.
In an annual report, the national agency warned that the project could lose its shot at federal funding if ``progress is not made on improving its financial status.''
Falling off the government list, behind dozens of other communities seeking a limited pool of start-up dollars, would be fatal, HARTline officials and rail supporters fear.
Jan Smith, who chaired the HARTline board that approved the project in 2001, said local leaders must not let years of work languish.
``We are going to be sadly lacking if we don't have the chutzpah to step up to the table and try to get these funds,'' Smith said. ``If we have forward-thinking, visionary people in places of political influence, we will. If we don't, we won't.''
Worth The Investment?
The HARTline board was nearing the close of its April 5 meeting when member Steve Polzin raised the question: Why was the agency planning to spend $65,000 on consulting work for a light rail system that appears light years away?
``I'm trying to make this board make a very deliberate decision on whether or not they want to continue to invest in it in light of the prospects of local funding being available to do something with it,'' said Polzin, a USF transportation researcher.
HARTline Executive Director Sharon Dent argued that the consulting work, including $15,000 worth now and an additional $50,000 through 2006, was necessary to keep Tampa's rail project in good federal standing.
The consultant would be paid to prepare annual project updates for the federal agency, including one due in August. Failure to meet the deadline would be a fatal flaw, Dent warned.
``If you tell me not to authorize this task order, you've just killed the rail project, and you made that decision today, so you need to understand it,'' she said.
Platt balked at Polzin's suggestion, saying, ``I'm concerned that some little motion like this could put the brakes on rail.''
Ultimately, board members approved the first $15,000 of work, given to Gannett Fleming of Camp Hill, Pa. They also signed off on the second phase with the caveat that they could cancel the rest of the contract at any time.
Beyond that money, though, is the billion-dollar question of what will become of light rail. Platt anticipates a full-bore discussion soon.
``I think the future of rail is going to be decided in the very near future,'' she said.
Long-Range Planning
If it's not decided by HARTline, it could be decided by the Metropolitan Planning Organization.
The organization is updating its long-range transportation plan, a document that includes the rail project at this point. It's time again to revisit the plan, and some rail supporters worry that the planning board will target their effort for elimination.
Such a decision would erase several million dollars worth of work and thwart any hope of opening by the plan's horizon date of 2025, said HARTline spokesman Ed Crawford, an avid rail proponent.
``If you get bumped out of the queue, if this thing somehow falls off the feds' radar screen, and if our report doesn't remain updated ... it's highly likely that those kind of time horizons go way out the window,'' Crawford said.
Tampa deserves rail of the type that works in Salt Lake City, Denver, Houston, Dallas and Portland, Ore., Crawford said, even if some question whether Tampa is in the same league.
``You by no means have compelling community consensus,'' Polzin said. ``They want strong, viable projects. They don't want laggards. This is not a slam dunk by any stretch of the imagination.''
HARTline has predicted about 30,000 people would ride the rail daily.
There is also the matter of HARTline's credibility, though.
Dent recently took a verbal beating from county commissioners, who expressed ``no confidence'' in her leadership. A county auditor found questionable spending practices on the agency's other rail project, the TECO Line Streetcar System. Federal transit investigators have been asking questions about the streetcar woes.
Some of the loudest critics of HARTline leadership have been among the vocal opponents of the streetcar.
Crawford acknowledged that the agency's credibility could play a role - ``I haven't been living under a rock,'' he said - but he also wondered whether recent criticism is part of a concerted effort to derail light rail.
``Is this all part of the plan?'' he said.
Reporter Joe Humphrey can be reached at (813) 259-7691.
Sometimes "rail" isn't practical bcause not enough would use it to justify the costs - but TAMPA?!?!?! Geez.
We need Grecco(R) back, pushed the streetcar and other "unpopular" things(including rifles in the front seat of police cars, and computer camera's that match your face to the database).
But seriously, Orlando spent the amount of money needed to actually build a system, and their policiticans keep pushing and pushing, and the voters are picky and clueless. And around here, ti's all wishy washy.
Have these people seen the traffic? Holy cow. I thought Miami was bad. I don't remember seeing Every major road backed up in gridlock for what's over 30-40 miles of traffic! Friday, not only have I seen a backup from Clearwater to plant city, but in the afternoon, traffic was stacked all through tampa and the whole tampa bay itself, a freakin bridge that's over 10 miles long!!!
Get real. There needs to be a vocal citizen group.....I'd take a 25mph trolley over this at this point...I'm in the other county so it wouldn't be good if i was the only one, including my transient nature...
A campaign to change "minds and hearts" is necessary to force the political landscape to shift in favor of expanded and utterly sensible public transit. Most people, sadly, still see it as something for wimps, tree-huggers or un-American types who don't worship the private car. I doubt that there will be any shift in large numbers to public transit for altruistic reasons. It has to be seen as being in each individual's *personal* best interest-- or it won't work. Am I a cynic? Yeah, I guess so.
But like I said before, who "Likes" commuting? Who would sit in those horrible traffic jams at 5mph, when they could ride in A/C'd comfort for 1/4th the price and at higher speeds?
Once people ride, they like it.
Too bad it's whoever yells the loudest...I'm wondering if there's loud people around here is what i'm going to be looking at. Maybe I'll do a letter to the editor(the Tribune is pro-transit).
I have a brother, not in Fla but another southern state, who has the option of rail transit to work or a 1-hour, bumper to bumper drive. He's used the rail line 2x in 4 years. Usual excuses: "I have a 6 block walk from the train as opposed to parking in the company's lot" or "I often have to stop in a store on the way home to buy things." Or a bunch of excuses equally as lame. Fact is: despite the cost and frustration, he likes the "privacy" and possessiveness of being in his own car. This is the mentality we have to learn to crack-- not just because we're rail buffs but because it's in our national and global interest. It's worth recalling that being FOR transit in much of the country is about as popular as being AGAINST guns. Just ain't Amurrrican.
After railing against plans for a bullet train between Tampa and Orlando, saying people would be better off with more highway lanes, Anheuser-Busch Chairman August A. Busch III left Busch Gardens on Thursday.
Instead of heading into traffic himself, however, the part-time resident of Polk County hopped aboard a helicopter.
--------------
Polk county is the neighborhing county, less miles away than an average suckers commute, he coulda drove :)
Few people realize that said doppelganger has actually delivered several of Bush's press conferences...
Have a look here (look under E) and here (look under 1970s).
Unfortunately I can’t find where Charles Busch made his money and whether he had any connection with the eponymous beer company!
O/t: I was listening to the radio, and they said, if you have any checks being sent to Rutgers to do a stop payment. They did a research project calculating if Homer ate too much junk food, or fatty foods and drank too much!!
*wonders what's goin on up there*
Not unless you consider St. Louis, Missouri to be the South. It's a German name.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Technically I do, though I understand it's not really southern by culture anymore...as much anyway.
And German name? Dude, are you one of those people when asked what are you(ethnicity) you go American?
And no, I don't refer to myself as an American. I am a North Carolinian who has lived in many different places around the world, most (but not all) of them within the borders of that political entity currently known as the United States of America.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
By Chris Slaight
-Chris
was in MA for some of the Yankee Red Sox series, we lost the first two games, but it was still easy to taunt the Red Sox fans
With Monday's game tied in the eighth, Hideki Matsui misplayed a fly ball to left and the double eventually allowed the Red Sox to take a 5-4 win. -yankees.com
As for the subway logo - it might not work since the R62s are eventually all sent off to the 3 [if that ever happens] and is it possible for the logo to be displayed on the front sign of an R142/A?
As long as they don't flush yet another season down the crapper....
If the C still ran to BPB, it might work.
Here are some shots from yesterday (click on picture):
Regards,
Jimmy
I noticed that the end signs on 9306 have been replaced.:(
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Are R-33ML cars mechanically identical to R-33WF cars? Or are there differences, like one car in a set having a compressor and the other not, or perhaps motor or control differences? Also, do R-33's have ME-42A motormen's valves or something newer? Thanks in advance.
Frank Hicks
R33ML/R33WF have WABCO "SMEE" ME42B air valves.
Weight of rebuilt R33 ML are 72,280 lb (even) 76,850 lb (odd). Pre-GOH R33ML were about 73,000 lb (prior to addition of AC units).
R33WF are 75,310 lb.
R36WF are 73,530 lb (rebuilt GE even) and 73,100 lb (rebuilt GE odd). Original weight was about 69,000 lb.
The R33WF is more closer, techinally to the R36. The ML R33 is similar to the R29 (and to a lesser degree) the ML R36. The R33 ML was built in 1962-63. The R33WF came later, being delivered in late 1963 shortly before the 1964 World's Fair, the R36 followed shortly afterward. R36ML (a small model class; 34 cars, all scrapped) were built 1964 about the same time as the R36WF for the IRT ML using designs from the R29/33ML using spare drop-sashes to make up for 40 R33WF's.
Main Street was dangerous before the rail, records show
-----
Vehicles collided frequently along the Main Street corridor long before the MetroRail line was built, Texas Transportation Institute data show.
Between 1998 and 2000, nearly 8,000 crashes were recorded along the 7 1/2-mile corridor where Metropolitan Transit Authority light rail trains now travel. Almost 2,000 were on Main and Fannin alone, two streets that make up most of today's rail route.
The pre-rail crash total averaged about 51 incidents per week, or roughly 7 1/2 per day.
Vehicles have collided with trains 35 times since the rail line was completed six months ago, a little more than one collision per week.
"The reality is, the driving public was experiencing these serious collisions before we ever put a different mode of transportation there," said Metro Police Chief Tom Lambert.
The Houston-Galveston Area Council, which closely examined 1999 crash records from the Texas Medical Center, calculated a serious collision rate in that neighborhood of 314 per 100 million vehicle miles traveled, 58 percent higher than the Houston regional rate of 199.
While the publicity mostly has surrounded the train crashes, Metro police have kept busy working numerous incidents along the rail corridor that did not involve trains. About 15 cars have driven into the Main Street Square fountain downtown.
Police reports also detail such mayhem as several cars careening off Main Street into adjacent buildings and running into light and utility poles.
One driver ran over pedestrian barricades near Preston Station, and another rolled through flower beds before crashing into the train station at Main Street Square.
------------
The old jokes about Houston drivers have punch lines like "Red lights are optional" or "Just go 90 mph until you hear glass." Every day, the Houston area far exceeds the national average in the number of traffic fatalities and serious crashes.
The carnage contributes to skyrocketing medical costs and gives Harris County the most expensive auto insurance rates in Texas, making it no laughing matter for the region's transportation planners.
Harris County drivers put their lives at greater risk every time they get behind the wheel than drivers in any other major city because the area is growing and moving faster than roads can be improved or patrolled, according to local collision statistics.
"We lead the state in crashes no matter how you define them," said Ned Levine, transportation safety program coordinator for the Houston-Galveston Area Council. "We are among the worst in the country. I haven't found a metropolitan area that's higher than ours."
The HGAC has spent almost three years gathering collision statistics from numerous local, state and federal agencies. Among the findings:
·The eight-county Houston region has an average of 242 serious crashes every day.
·For every serious crash -- defined in Texas as involving a death, injury or property damage of at least $1,000 -- there are two to three times as many minor ones.
·Houston drivers are 2 1/2 times more likely to be hurt or killed in a traffic collision per mile traveled than the national average.
·Nearly 600 people a year die on the region's highways, and some 90,000 are injured.
Saperstein points out there are more than 400 motorcycle officers in Los Angeles, a city with more people than Houston but covering 151 fewer square miles.
"If we had the same crash risk as Dallas/Fort Worth, we would have 15,000 fewer crashes a year," Levine said. "We have a very severe problem here."
-------------------------------
This is interesting because I remember Orlando and Miami was tops the last few years, and for Houston to be worse....wow.
And next time someone says the wham bam train needs to go, I think those 8000 crashes, some involving builings and poles, demonstrate that no-one should be in the area then.
It is Texas drivers!!
I drove across Texas a few times in my tour bus days, and those peoples' driving skills (or lack thereof...) scared the hell out of me. They know NOTHING of keeping somewhat down at the speed limilt, or stopping for stop signs...I think maybe 1 in 20 used their turn signals.
Here:
The topic says it all too. Literally.
wayne
Oh No! The have NEVER used steam in that tunnel!
Yeah, the probly cut out those last two cars and pulled them out under their own power once they were re-railed.
Elias
Jimmy
Bring back the standards, R27/R30s.
Regards,
Jimmy 8^)
wayne
You are presumed to be responsible and in control of the situation until something is proven otherwise. And as far as your own automobile is concerned, your are STILL responsible if your brakes failed! Because you have the responsibility to inspect your vehicle before you use it: It is hard to wiggle out of "equipment failure."
Of course, equipment can fail enroute. But at least on a Railroad, you *did* all of the brake tests before moving your train from the terminal.
The event recorder can exonorate or convict this T/O depending on what is found: what sequence of controls were applied and released and when.
Elias
I gotta think the T/O sat just over the IJ almost one full block back from the last GT and let it run time and clear, and THEN posted it.
Then again, the Daily News reported that a "TA Conductor was running the train" (!) So there's the problem, someone was working out of title!! :-)
Jimmy
Why? You can drink after you've worked in the mine.
: )
Mark
: )
Mark
your pal,
Fred
Here's another view:
just no red engine car at the end, I would like it all integrated.
Till' next time,
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen.
Norowood, Bronx
205 St
(D)-----------------
Brighton Beach
and
Midtown
57 St / 7Av
(Q)-------------------
Brighton Beach
My historic subway maps would be placed inside the frames as well...
Purchase of tickets in advance was discontinued a while back. Be at 59th/Columbus Circle around 10:00/10:15 AM. You will board from the rarely used center platform (use the staircase from about mid platform on either the downtown or uptown platforms). When the train comes in all the doors on the center platform side will open allowing riders to board. Shortly after the train gets going people in charge of the trip will go through the cars and collect the fare (check or cash is fine but if you need a receipt use a check).
The trips are a lot of fun. Keep in mind that these cars are not air conditioned so dress accordingly for the weather.
The itinerary will most likely be posted here on Subtalk as soon it is known.
As a meet volunteer, my duties prevented me from walking the aisles as much as the other attendees, but I did get to talk to Train Dude for several hours and get a personal update on changes to my favorite subway system. It is always a treat to talk with a man who knows as much as he does about New York's subway system.
I also got to see the MTH display of their new items, and was disappointed to notice that MTH is apparently going to give all of the cars in both the Yankee's and the Met's Subway Series sets the same number, 2000. This is certainly not realistic, but that is what is showing on the cars displayed. I hope they change their minds before actual production is started.
The fall meet dates are Oct 15th & 16th!
1]The only NYC subway cars I didn't ride in my lifetime are the BMT standards, the Q cars, the R11/34's, the Low V's, any pre-50's IRT/BMT cars [like the Triplexes], and couriously, the R16's. I remember riding the R1/9's back in my childhood in the 60's riding the E then the J and K trains, the R10 on the A, and the R12/14/15/17 on various IRT lines in the 70's [after '76 when I started to go to NYC by myself on occasions]. I remember riding the R27/30 in their last days in the late 80's, and naturally all of the Redbirds [26/28/33/36], before and after their rebuilding. That's a lot of subway car variety for a guy that visited from Philly, and DC on occasion.
After I left the Museum after about 2 hours, I managed to get on an Orion VII, [7600 series] on the B61. I still think low-floor buses are ugly, but they are growing on me. During the ride, when the bus got into Williamsburg, I noticed [while the bus was on Whyte Ave] in an industrial yard about a block away from Whyte Ave between Ross St and Division Ave, a group of ex-Cleveland PCC cars. I was kicking myself for not having a camera with me, but does anyone have any info on this?
I got on the 7 [at Queensboro Plaza] and rode to Grand Central, then walked from GC to PABT, taking in the atmosphere and the delicious weather. I got on the 159 bus hoping to ride one of the new Neoplan artics, but got a tired, old Flxible. Rode to Fairview Garage, got a good look at the new Neoplan [much different from the SEPTA/WMATA/BeeLine versions], then got on another old Flx back to NYC. The trip was horrible, it spent an inordinate amount of time inching down Bergenline Ave. What gives there? I actually spent double the time going south on Bergenline than going North. Got back to PABT then went for dinner. Rode the R to Jackson Heights, saw what the new terminal will look like [very impressive], then backtracked to Midtown on a soft-seated Orion 101 on the Q32. Made good time back to Manhattan but then hit a lot of traffic on 34 St.
I risked life and limb crossing 7th Ave to make the 9:03 ot of NYP, but the train died at Newark. It completely blew all of my planned connections at Trenton, then at Camden. We had to be crammed onto the next NEC train at Newark, and thanks to the overcrowding, the conductor never collected my ticket. On my next trip, all I have to buy is a one-way to NYC or Newark.
In conclusion, thanks to the RiverLINE, traveling to NYC was made way too easy and cheap, and continures to fuel my temptation to go to the City every weekend, but maybe this weekend, I'll try to break my habit, and maybe go across the Delaware into Philly for something other than work.
Thanks
Chuck
Penn Station:
34th St - 8th Avenue: A,C,E
34th St - 7th Avenue: 1,2,3,9
Penn Station and/or Empire State Building
34th St - Broadway: N,Q,R,W
34th St - Sixth Ave: B,D,F,V
Empire State Building
33rd St - Park Ave (Lex Ave Line): 6
Hope this helps
that sure cheered me up on my way to Grand Central to work till 7am.
(i take the F to 34th and catch a uptown N to 42nd to the Grand Central shuttle. sounds crazy but im a fan of R46 and R68s not to mention when i enter the shuttle passageway from the shuttle, my locker room is right next to the rite aid, so its more convienient to take the shuttle as opposed to the E to the 7, or the E to the 6. E to the shuttle is too much walking, and i get tired LOL.
What usually happens in this case is that the F didn't have the lineup - although I can't see why it shouldn't, as both the E and F both get crossed to the express at that time. Since the train has to stop anyway, C/R will just open the doors, after first communicating with the T/O, instead of sitting there with them closed with the train in the station.
Then every day the same L train ran express from Broadway Junction to Lorimer (stopping at Myrtle) but it accidentally stopped at Bushwick-Aberdeen once.
Also on a Q train they were going to run express to Kings Highway from Brighton Beach (late, door holders) but stopped at Sheepshead Bay unnanounced. We then ran nonstop to Church Avenue! That was a fun ride. :)
I once had a [super] express on the Brighton I had was when we ran non-stop from Prospect Park-Kings Highway going s/b. And it was a R68 D train, this was back in 2001 BTW. Another time on the Brighton, an N train ran via express! Now THAT was a strange sight, and it wasn't a GO.
Well, it probably belongs more than the redbird scheme you are used to! It had the silver scheme long before the black and red scheme they had most recently....
--Mark
#3 West End Jeff
At least that's what I saw on a R46 on the V once...sign was broken so they just made a "V" out of two pieces of black tape.
If the trains did not have sidesigns I'd say that's ok; but since they have the sidesigns, if the endsign is broken and NOT displaying any route, it should be left alone.
Bill "Newkirk"
If only I had hit the button a split second earlier:
Aside from those two disappointments, it was a great day. It may have been a yawnfest for those riding, but it was phenomenal for the photographers. Thanks again to those who made it possible!
Regards,
Jimmy
---Sir Ronald of McDonald
Bill "Newkirk"
Regards,
Jimmy
Click here
by the way, where are the SAS tunnel shots taken?
Bill "Newkirk"
They'll have to get under it tomorrow and check everything out thoroughly.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
Nope. Signals too far apart would cause a problem like this. The timers in the station are retrofits anyway, to help keep trains entering the station at a reasonable speed.
Also remember that the last signal cleared on time.
Robert
wayne
avid
It looks that way, but no, it worked correctly.
The purpose of the anticlimber is to prevent the hard frame from climbing up *above* the frame sill of the other car. It is supposed to keep the collision on the outside of the train, instead of allowing a car to climb up into your train and landing on your lap.
It is very uncomfortable to have a subway train climb up onto your lap.
: ) Elias
Fire away with questions and comments! :)
But just one question. How the hell would you get a train going past main st on the 7. Ever since they made that new area, you cant run a train past Main St. Unless they knock the new area down o-0\.
My previous versions used the Astoria Line to reach LGA. However, as there is a lot of local service there, it would hinder rapid transit to LGA from Midtown. Further, there'd probably be difficulty converting the El at Ditmars to subway to reach LGA. Not so with the Queens Blvd IND -- which could simply be tacked on as extention of the Queens Blvd express line.
The street was named for Louis Nine. Nine was his surname. It was not named for Louis the Ninth.
-The Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowodlawn)!
Also, 2 Willets Point stations on the (7)? Kinda confusing.
BTW:
The old Nassau < R > needed also some years before it got the brown
color.
What do you folks think about the Culver Express service? Is it really necessary, or would it end up as another Astoria express (which is precisely the reason I didn't add express service to the Woodlawn or Van Courtland Park line -- I don't know if there is enough service concentrated at the upper parts of the line to justify express service -- in my experience boarding the 4 train at 170th street, it wasn't so crowded -- any ideas to offer to that?)?
As for extending the VCP line, I don't know if constructing more of the El beyond VCP is worth it (perhaps to the Henry Hudson Pkwy). How crowded is the Bx9 bus rush hour mornings connecting to the 1? Would the extention of the trip be worth the travel time down the long local? (Notice I've scrapped the 9?)
The T terminates at Atlantic Ave because it forms part of a high speed connection (via the LIRR) to Lower Manhattan and JFK. What do you think here, should I scrap the LIRR Flatbush branch entirely and run the T all the way to Jamaica on the LIRR ROW?
What do you folks think of my extension for Co-op City service? The Laurelton Line?
It seems that W follows the Third Avenue and Boston Road between 3rd Ave - 149th Street and the Amtrak NEC row North of 180th Street. It's an interesting routing that doesn't overburden existing lines. As for the Laurelton Line, since you're using the LIRR row, how about extending to Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream? Also, the Amtrak ROW has room for extra tracks, but does the Babylon Line row?
Also, I don't think there's any room for more trains on the Queens Boulevard Express so adding the P won't work.
BTW, there's no need for a 201st Street station on the F. Holliswood would be against it, and there isn't much there anyways.
What do you folks think about the Culver Express service? Is it really necessary, or would it end up as another Astoria express (which is precisely the reason I didn't add express service to the Woodlawn or Van Courtland Park line -- I don't know if there is enough service concentrated at the upper parts of the line to justify express service -- in my experience boarding the 4 train at 170th street, it wasn't so crowded -- any ideas to offer to that?)?
There was Culver express service before, so I can't see why it couldn't work again. The only thing is that the G should terminate at Kings Hwy, not Avenue X. As for a Jerome express, you couldn't use the 4 train in the peak and it would be kinda tricky to pull off such a thing. My idea called for the 13 [a variant of the 3] to use it via a new connection/tunnel and terminate at Burnside Av since I think it woulnd't be needed north of that point but otherwise its best to just leave it alone, I would leave the 4 the way it is as well but I showed how it might be possible.
What do you folks think of my extension for Co-op City service? The Laurelton Line?
Co-op City is good and Laurelton is good but I used the E via Merrick Blvd; which looks like it is via Merrick on your map but I don't know for sure.
Maybe you could make a JFK Subway stop (like the C)
Great map and keep up the good work.
-Chris
But switch your N and W lines north of 57th St - the way you have them requires N and W trains to cross in front of each other from express to local tracks and delay all Broadway service. N to 2nd Avenue and W to Astoria would keep N's on the express and W's on the local without them having to cross in front of each other.
Also, if the B runs to CI and the Q terminates at Brighton Beach, you have the same crossing over issue. So B's should stay at BB and Q's should continue to CI.
#3 West End Jeff
Maximum speed: 100 mph
Maximum traction power at wheels: 3620 hp
Starting tractive effort: 69,975 lbs
Continuous tractive effort: 27,000 lbs
Prime mover: EMD 16 cylinder 710G3B-T1
Track gauge: Standard gauge (4 feet 8.5 inches)
Wheelset arrangement: Bo-Bo (2-axle trucks)
Type of truck: Flexifloat
Axle load: 72,000 lbs
Maximum locomotive weight: 288,000 lbs
Length over couplers: 852”
Width of locomotive carbody: 115”
Wheel diameter (new): 44”
Wheel diameter (worn): 41”
Type of mechanical brakes: Wheel cheek disc and tread: (75%/25%)
Fuel capacity: 2250 gallons
Main alternator: EMD TA-17
Battery voltage: 64 VDC
Head power supply: 800 kW, 3 x 480 VAC/60 Hz at 0.8 p. f.
Traction converter, type: IGBT, water-cooled
Communication systems: Analog AAR 27-pin, Digital Trainline Network (DTN)
Safety systems: Cab systems, US&S, Brakes, WABTEC Epic II
Manufacturer: Alstom
Improvements over the F40PH 2CAT: 50% more traction capacity, integrated Head End Power Supply versus separately generated power supply, 100% HEP/traction inverter redundancy scheme, meets all current safety, strength, and emission requirements as per FRA/APTA Type I and EPA Type I requirements, state-of-the-art digital control
Some pics of what the finished product will be coming soon, and I promise it will look a whole lot better!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Also the Imperial unit, meaning it was also used by the whole British Empire. Besides, since gravity is constant in general on planet Earth, using weight measure is quite relevant.
The PL42AC on the other hand is a locomotive with a vastly superior diesel engine at it's heart. The two stroke EMD 16-710G3B is a much better performing engine than the GE engine, especially in roles where acceleration and loading times count. NJT currently operates a fleet that is all EMD two stroke locomotives, all of the 645 class, basically the 710 is just a newer, bigger version of the 645, so maitenance proceedures and such will remain the same, no need to go and retrain extensively. Also it's AC traction, meaning lower operating costs for NJT, and it's built upon a frame proven in europe, something that NJT has had a lot of success in doing. Witness the ALP44 and 46.
I cannot understand your insane notion that the P42 looks any better than the PL42AC. To me they're both equally ugly, the box the good looking train came in. I think both were designed by Cesaer Veraga (sp?), and it shows, they follow the same basic lines. And since IMHO their looks are the same, it's what's on the inside that counts, and in that case the PL42AC is lightyears ahead of the P42.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
The PL42AC will certainly be a unique locomotive. NJT engineers have been giving a lot of input insofar as cab design (reportedly, the cab layout will be identical to the ALP-46); so the end result will be quite ergonomic, and I prefer a comfortable and stress-free engineer to one that is on edge due to a bad cab design. The prime mover will be a 4200-hp EMD 710B 16-cylinder two-stroke, and yes, it does pass FRA emissions.
Mind you, the Genesis series is still available from GE, with the "Evolution" 12-cylinder prime-mover with a base HP rating of 4400 but upgradable to 6000 HP. What that does for acceleration, we may never know, because nobody seems to want to order the locomotive series again . . .
*********************************************************************
Just a little colour commentary on the City of New Orleans wreck. Any if anyone cares here is the consist.
Engine: P-42 No. 82
Cars: 1223 – derailed, “A” end coupled to engine, “B” end suspended off trestle.
32036 – Derailed, on side
38009 – Derailed, on side
33013 – Derailed, on side
31592 - Derailed, on side
34069 – Derailed, on side
34087 – Derailed, on side
32005 – Derailed, upright
34135 – Derailed, upright
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Wreck
*********************************************************************
Well CSX is going through the motions of track maintainence again so Amtrak will need to combine the two Silver service trains into a single one as well as shut down parts of the Sunset Limited. The affected dates are April 24 to June 22.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Silver
*********************************************************************
Ooo, has Amtrak grown teeth and is getting revenge on the Republican assholes that keep trying to kill them?
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Hello
While I hate many republican politicians, many of them are STRONG amtrak supporters. In fact, 3 of amtraks biggest proponants are republicans(Hutchison Lott and Thompson).
The only thing DF has done is collected the transit/rail ones and reposted them.
The reason I mentioned that was since DF is all one long page, only one post is really needed, with appropriate comments.
Saves Dave's bandwidth.
*********************************************************************
Amtrak dining car food has always been top notch, this can only make things better.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#What’s
I dunno, it's been 20 years since I've had the opportunity to dine in an Amtrak dining car. I have no idea what's available other than the snack service stuff.
Your pal,
Fred
However, it just didn't compare to what was served on the old New Haven/Penn Central dinner runs. I don't think Amtrak ever served Weiner Schitzel dinners on plates with "waiter service" ... I suspect that all went out with "Silver Streak" ... I'm also told though that on the long distance runs nowadays, while not as elegant as that, have impreoved immeasurably since Gunn took over. I'd love to find out for myself.
But that "cycle five" nomenclature's gotta go. Down boy, good doggie. :)
I rode from Chicago to NYC in 1980 and remember breakfast included eggs to order. I think I may have had a burger for lunch too, not sure. I also seem to remember that you checked off your order on a printed form and the food was delivered by a waiter, per se. It wasn't luxurious, but at the time I was hitchiking cross country from California and ran into a Chicago snowstorm and spent my last money on a train ticket.
I take that back; it was damn luxurious!
Anyway, here are some old menus that might raise a chuckle, if for nothing else but the prices.
Your pal,
Fred
Definitely not "cafe car" ... so I'll raise my shot of Schenley and propose a toast to Soylent Green. And cycle five. Woof. (grin)
(JM will be jealous) 40 years ago I dined on the PRR's flagship where the prime rib was just as excellent as in the Edwarduan Room at the Plaza several days earlier. And the large goblet of fresh strawnerries for dessert...
Mind you I don't expect that from Amtrak, all I ask is some variety and more saladry. And NO, iceberg lettuce and a grey tomato are not a salad. Twenty years ago Amtrak regularly offerred a "chef's salad" for dinner. It dissappeared to my great dismay.
*********************************************************************
I wonder if this test kitchen has the same cramped space as the revenue equipment? What about hydraulic equipment to simulate jointed rail, interlockings and poorly maintained CSx track.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Test
It has none of those. Just the Dining car equipment.
*********************************************************************
ooo, a website, well that settles the whole arguement.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Florida
*********************************************************************
Oh come on, this is bullshit. What was there first, the Railroad or the homeowners. What a waste of $. Ever heard of planting some fur trees? the kicker is that a good deal of the traffic is now electric.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Dedham
*********************************************************************
Anything that puts the old PRR bridge back in service as well as the old LEMO interlocking is ok by me.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Ridership
They got the wrong focus. They're looking at "taking cars off the road" versus mobility. So long as they run it like a proper commuter railroad and not a Champlain "Flyer", they will be AOK.
*They got the wrong focus. They're looking at "taking cars off the road" versus mobility. *
you tellin me. They act like if a person uses a train, they think in their head, "It's a good thing I took the train today, now there's more room for someone else to drive". It's not recycling dont treat it as such!!
*********************************************************************
Finally, someone is standing up to this light rail crap.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Sound
*********************************************************************
Woah, looks like their video paid off! Go TTC.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Toronto
Go TTC Go!
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
*********************************************************************
At least the cost cutting isn't limited to B&O CPL's
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#CSX
*********************************************************************
Well this is a new low for Railroading. Driving bussiness to trucks with poor service and high costs has been common for 50 years...but ASKING them to ship via truck, that's a new one.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#UP
Any firm out there with 1/2 a brain will turn this into a PR/Service bonanza, GET business from UP and KEEP IT. If they're smart, the service reps are at the shipper's doors, ready to get on their knees and do anything to get the customer.
I say the next time the Class Is get into trouble, there should be no bailout. Let the current idiots die a self inflicted death - if the service was needed, someone will fill the vacuum.
Indeed . . . the LIRR "blows" past the LIE traffic during the evening rush.
*********************************************************************
...only according to the Bush Administration's timetable for reconstruction, the real trains having been blown up.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df04122004.shtml#Iraq
Can someone help me with the ID here? Thanks!
Anyone notice anything amiss?
RTA 2002 pic 1, a DMU (Why has no other agency considered these cars?)
RTA 2002 pic 2
ALP46 4612
SEPTA Silverliner 305 and NJT GP40PH 2CAT 4202
Enjoy!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Because they cost $2.9 million apiece. That's kinda steep even for a powerful DMU like that; and CRC is not the only game in town (BBD can be played off them).
I noticed that the doors were open in that one pic; is there a trapdoor in the vestibule? All the pix I have seen up to date of that CRC DMU vestibule showed no trapdoor for high-platform access.
They were told there was no room for an RDC.
That's the "Hickory Creek", built by Pullman for the New York Central's 20th Century Limited in 1948. It operated on the tail end of the Century for 20 years.
It has been on display at the Hoboken Festival.
I do not think so. It actually looks good now! However, it is all in the eye of the beholder!
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
me me me
I can't say enough good about the restoration job the guys did on 9010 and 9011.
Click on the photo for more fun and games.
I'll probably add more photos later, and I hope you enjoy the pictures.
Your pal,
Fred
You know it!
Your pal,
Fred
More MOD Photos here or here if you don't like Imagestation
Enjoy the photos and leave comments if you'd like.
Your pal,
Fred
As for getting "drenched", how about attacking the real cause and getting the local and regional governments to improve drainage?
I would think that imposing your will on others by getting your point across and causing damage to someone else's property is indeed vandalism.
16 months in the slam isn't enough, make that 20 with full restitution to all victims. Or garnish his bank account and auction off his property as restitution.
Harsh ? Well maybe inconveniencing innocent victims to make a statement by slashing tires is also harsh.
Bill "Newkirk"
To view the rest of them, click HERE. Thanks.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
How about that? :)
Anything but "driver". The press uses that insulting term like water.
Bill "Newkirk"
wayne
Your post clearly states the point I was making by posting that photo.
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
Anybody with more info?
I hope all's well by 3:00pm .. for my Acela trip home after today's Transit and Weather Together.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
That track is for through trains.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
guess someone did not stop short of train or obstruction did they
God I hope nobody tries to make 11/9 some sort of Memorial Day or something... That's the LAST thing we need at this point!
In Massachusetts, state and local offices are closed, as are schools. Many businesses are open, and it's an optional holiday for others.
It's also a good get-out-of-town weekend for those of us who don't want (or need) to be there ... that's why I came to NYC, and worked at WCBS this morning.
Now hopefully ATK 2164 will be on time to get me back north... I'm writing this from Penn Station six hours after the incident this morning, and there's no indication that anything happened, at least on the concourse level.
To maximize traffic problems by closing all the roads just as everyone is leaving the game? :)
It commemmorates the battle of Lexington and Concord. Nowadays, however, it's best known as the date of the Boston Marathon. Patriot's Day also gives residents of New England states an extra day to file their income tax returns in some years, as it occasionally falls upon April 15 and the IRS processing center for returns from New England states (and possibly part of Upstate NY) is located in Massachusetts and honors the holiday.
I've ridden more than my share of LIRR trains and not once have I heard such an announcement. I've even been on M-7's and I'm sure that it would be one of the automated announcements if it were actually a rule.
I used to stand at the bottom step and hang off the edge of the car as it swept into Merrick Station.
(Before high level platforms, of course!)
: ) Elias
1) No one on the LIRR ever announces that customers should remain seated until the train reaches the station - much less stops. NEVER!!!
2) People leave their seats far earlier on the LIRR than is common on the subways. It's not uncommon for LIRR customers to line up at the vestibules when the train first enters the east river tunnel. In fact, on my evening train this evening, people left their seats as the train passed Seaford in order that they could get off at Massapequa.
Not to mention the fact that some trains are so crowded that some people have to stand for the whole trip.
MNCR specifically encourages you to look around for all your belongings, long before the train has come to a stop.
Bill "Newkirk"
This engineer must have been asleep at the controller or incapacitated.
Hopefully the investigation will clarify the situation. As many of you have said, it is necessary to close in on the train ahead in order to keep things moving.
As the Sargent in 'Hill Street Blues' used to say so many years ago, "Hey, hey , hey - let's be careful out there!"
The signals in the east river tunnel do not have stop arms and the LIRR or AMTRAK do not use tripcocks to dump the train if it passes a red signal. The amtrak engineer allegedly passed a "Stop and proceed" signal. Whether he stopped or not is part of the investigation. After that he was required to proceed at his discretion at restricted speed. The loco was pulling 7 empty coaches. There is a slight upgrade at the point of impact. It will not be diffficult do determine exactly what happened from the time the AMTRAK train entered line 2 until the instant of impact.
It shows what a tough job it is. Years of normal operation, one moment of inattention and it's terrible. It's as if I were fired or suspended for a typo on a document I wrote.
Perhaps that's why it's better to have machines operating the trains in normal operation. They don't get board and make a mistake. You still have a person to improvise on the spot when something unexpected happen. People just can't be expected to be perfect.
If he'd somehow failed to get proper rest the day before, he could have been pretty tired.
There's no question about it. Some rules are quite draconian when you look at them in human terms. This particular engineer is a single father of 2 boys (6 and 8 years old). A mistake without any malevolance might not merit such a harsh outcome. However, railroads have a long sorry history of indifference towards safety. Recently on the history channel a piece was done about the history of train disasters. I think at one point the annual death toll reached over 10,000. Tough rules with harsh penalties may be the price we now pay for that sad legacy.
What's actually sad though is that it's always the crew who "bought it" one way or another when in so many cases, they felt compelled to "push the engine" in order to maintain schedule. The most dreaded words back in my day (and so I hear today hasn't changed either) were "Son? WHERE did you lose your time?" Beat the clock is EVERYTHING to railroads, even the MTA, even today. You NEVER see the managers who impose this mentality carted off though, nor made to whiz in the cup.
I realize that this had nothing to do with this particular "event" but it still needed to be said. At the same time, many don't realize that it isn't all that easy to control dozens of tons of train and thus the "fear of God" is a requirement for the job. ONE slipup and physics just takes over despite your efforts to stop the inevitable. Folks who are held responsible to this degree DO deserve to be paid a bit better than they are.
As you said you fight the clock, you fight the elements, you fight the rules and in the end, you fight the laws of physics. Most don't realize what it means to run 600 tons of train with 2000 - 3000 people at 50 MPH.
Oh Dear... there goes the rush hour. Well NEVER get into the station now!
An empty AMTRAK train collided with a LONG ISLAND RAIL ROAD train filled with early morning commuters as it approached PENN STATION at the MANHATTAN end of the EAST RIVE TUNNEL this morning causing minor injuries. Among those aboard was CLEAR CHANNEL Classic Rocker WAXQ (Q104.3)/NEW YORK PD BOB BUCHMAN who came away without a scratch.
I'll be in Tuckahoe, NJ, on Saturday, for the West Jersey Chapter-NRHS april meeting (open to the public), followed by a Cape May Seashore Lines train ride on the recently rehabbed 5 miles of track from Tuckahoe to Woodbine Junction, and back.
I probably can't make the MOD trip, although I'd like to, especially after seeing the beautiful photos from last Saturday's trip.
Avid
avid
Everything just has to be a hassle. (sarcasm)
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Computers will only do what you tell them to do.
Always some stoopit little quirk that they are looking for.
Sometimes it may just be the way you have your cookies set on your 'puterbox.
When you get that all figured out you can come over here and help me figure out what I am doing wrong with my domain servers and the DFS system.
(Which is to say... if you for one minute think that you are ever going to figure out how computers work... FORGETABOUTIT!)
Elias : )
Enjoy! See you next Sunday on the official Fan Trip.
Thanks to Sir Ronald and David Of Bway I got some spectacular shots
of the 238 pre-layover..
During the recess, I went to the pharmacy at 238 and walked under the el (workers painting)
to 242 for lunch at BK..
I called Kool-D to find out if he was on the trip, which led to him
lulling his arse out of Brighton to join us at VCP.
By the time he came bouncing out of his train (1874) it was
time to pull 'er out again...
Three hours went by quickly (for me, atleast).
Another grand run-by at Dyckman, and lo I chased the train south
to 42-TS, it wasn't until I was back at 207 Uptown that I see 5260 & co.
coming out of the 8th Ave portal into the yard.
I'm sure glad to just be there. Thanks Brah!
Now (Apr/17/2004)
What do you think?
Eventually 9010 will look the same.
You're comparing the maintenance habits of 1974 to today....
TA's obviously haz tha CASH FLO to keep 9010-9011 in TIP TOP shape
(*especially* since they're not in everyday road SERVICE...) and yannow
there's that SUBWAY CENTENNIAL that every1's been priming 4!
If 9010-9011 were to be used in everyday road service... THEN might it "become" like 9108.... brah.
At some point 9010-9011 will be stored outside in one of the yards (most likley in one of the Coney Island areas). With the sun beating down and the rain and snow and wind etc any paint job will start to wear.
Unless they covered the cars with a tarp (which we know won't happen) these will look like 9108 in just a few years.
You can add salt air to the mix.
Bill "Newkirk"
You have a point there, vato... BUT come to think of it---
WHAT EXACTLY ARE the TA's plans for these 'gems' after the
1904-2004 Centennial hoopla kiels (sp?) over??
IMO we have yet to see any text or printed matter detailing
JUST WHAT/WHERE these gems will go after October 28 2004.
Heck, I doubt even the TA has the slightest snidge of a clue.
I would just HOPE HOPE & HOPE to the muthatoken they come up with something
that --DOES NOT-- involve the words 'scrap' or 'scuba'.
Seeing 9010-9011 in living color was 1 Sunday highlight.
Thanks 4 typing!
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
When there are people lying outside Penn Station on stretchers, I would take it a little more seriously.
The LIRR will not repair that unit, I've heard of early retirements for M-1's with similar minor mishaps and electrical fires.
Bill "Newkirk"
wayne
Yeah, that will be real easy to enforce!
http://1010wins.com/topstories/winstopstories_story_110065843.html
I came across this link that our own Dutchrailnut posted on Railroad.net. This Russ Roweland guy wants to create a steam engine revival with his 3000hp 18% thermal efficient conventional firebox boilered steam engine.
I personally find the very idea of this thing completely laughable. If diesel prices rise much more and it becomes uneconomic for freight railroads to buy diesel fuel and continue operating it seems like a much better idea to simply electrify than go back to steam. With an electric engine you can still run off Coal, or Diesel or natural gas, or nuclear, or whatever powerplant happens to be nearby. Also with an electric, much more power can be derived than for a steam engine, roughly 8000hp for an ALP46 versus a mere 3000-6000 for the ACE3000.
Well I've offered up my thoughts, anyone else?
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
It was a wet dream of a few people who can't understand that steam died because it was obsoleted by electric and diesel technology. There was no big conspiracy, it's just that against even a four unit FT or a GG-1, steam just plain sucked.
No, it was a modified / shielded locomotive built to pull around the prototypes for the ANP program (while it lasted). It was in Idaho. The two ANP engines (HTRE-1, and HTRE-3) are still there, out in the open and on display, open to the public (but fenced). You can go see them for nothing, along with EBR-I, which was the first reactor in the US to generate a tangable amount of electricity, among other things. Oh yeah, it had a meltdown in 1957, but they don't tell you that on the tour. Remember to go into the basement and look UP at the reactor, in addition to standing on top of the assembly and looking down at the top head. Highly recommended. I think I have the self guided tour brochure here somewhere still.
It was just a sexed up GE switcher used to move the thing between the hot shop and the test stand. All the ANP tests were static - they WERE designing the test plane when JFK killed the program off. The hanger for said plane was already built at Idaho. The entire ANP program was screwy to say the least. The funny part was they actually worried about getting the darn things back after their missions, which was a moot point given that they'd only be used during a nuke war anyway. About all they proved was that it could (on paper) work, and that static engines could run. Ironically, the study done a decade earlier on the project was spot on in terms of timeline and cost and technology, except that by the time the program was killed, there wasn't a flyable plane (yet).
A far more sinister scheme which never got beyond the drawing board was for a nuclear powered cruise missle. The things would be launched in the event of an 'exchange', and basically circle the pacfic/atalantic until given a command to attack, whereupon they'd come into the USSR at low altitutde and supersonic speeds, basically killing everything in their path with the shockwave, and spewing radiation as a bonus.
And people were actually serious about this! It boggles the mind how full of themselves the military was back then. Of course, Ike warned us about all this but nobody listened...
Conversely, we are now I believe at a point where most main lines are sufficiently busy that electrification should pencil out. Particularly interesting is the idea of massive wind farms along ROW in Wyoming, Nebraska etc.
Then I saw a show on cable talking about how Sweden(I think, or the swiss) has "brand new" perfectly preserved steam loco's because they were afraid that would be all that's left after something happens in the cold war.
So hey, if someone pushes brt and CNG buses, i guess all this is possible.
You're wrong... but not by much, production ended about four or five years ago.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Chuck :-)
A long time ago I saw a R32 that had a seat panel in a faded green, and another R32 that had its faded green color appearing underneath the gray.
Now let's get them rolling on Desire Street!
Mark
http://www.transitgallery.com/showpic.php?aid=225&pid=9973&uuid=60
The (making of the) map was inspired by Max Roberts's map.
Any comments are welcome (be they positive, negative or 'constructive';-) ).
-Alargule
-the displaced Hoyt/Schermerhorn Sts station;
-the geographical inaccurateness of the map (it's a diagrammatic map FCOL);
-the fact that shuttles should be BLACK instead of WHITE;
-the strange thingy on the bottom left hand corner.
-Alargule
http://www.transitgallery.com/showpic.php?aid=225&pid=10061&uuid=60
Preview:
-Alargule
The circle Q served CI and the diamond Q terminated at BB, from 7/22/2001-9/7/2002. For over a decade before 7/22/01, the D local terminated at CI, and the orange Q express terminated at BB.
Keep up the good work.
-Chris
Thank you
Graham Wellington
'cept how can we get some corrective measures so that this doesn't spoil the cookie
for future MOD riders?
MTA New York City Transit
370 Jay Street,
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11201
Attn: Kevin O'Connell,
Chief Transportation Officer
If this TSS has "Access" to MOD Reservations Lists.....
Where is the Video tape Buffs Gone Wild?
You can complain all you want but understand this, TSS Albanese comes with the package. The employees that you see operating and supervising the MOD cars are the very same employees that maintain the cars, therefore they earn the right to operate and supervise the rolling museum fleet. You either get Albanese and the MOD trip together or you get absolutely nothing. And nothing means no MOD trips.
Just deal with it. I've known Albanese since he was a T/O. He was the same way then as he is now, so you can't say that the title of TSS got to his head. I personally think he's funny.
-Graham
Maybe Albanese doesn't know he is upsetting people. Maybe he thinks he is doing the right thing in protecting "his" train against someone who he feels is threatening its integrity in some manner. Maybe he was given orders to ensure an orderly trip -- there are some people who have behaved less than orderly on these trips in the past and maybe he was selected because of his attitude.
I am not making excuses for TSS Albanese. Come to think of it, I remember it may have been he who dispatched me with a few verbal smacks across the behind as well for activities he found questionable. I just dismissed his actions as his personality. Knowing now that he is one of the people who gives enough of a damn to restore the cars makes me think of his "attitude" as far less of a factor than I did even then.
If you still feel there is a problem, there are more constructive ways to get your point across, and maybe even making the matter right, than to broadcast the offender's name on a message board and then bemoan the fact that he became a supervisor in an organization run by "idiots." It truly diminishes your argument.
Maybe he should set out ground rules when you get on his train, then when you break one of those rules, his behaviour will then be justified.
I went up onto the platform, which as usual was empty. About three more people came up. At 10:50, I heard the wistles of the train, and the train came right ontime at 10:51. The train arrived 2 minutes late to Market East, at 11:17.
I left the station and grabbed a coffee at Dunkin' Donuts, then walked to 8th and Market, where I just barely made an outbound PATCO train. At Walter Rand TC, I went up to ground level; this was my first time at Walter Rand. I spotted the River LINE platforms, and my heart started racing, as this would be my first time on the LINE.
I went over and stood at the platform, which appeared very new. There were a couple of other people around the station, but for the most part it was empty. I made the 12:26 northbound to Trenton, which arrived at 1:33. I was impressed with NJT's operation of this new single tracked line, with great scheduling. Also, the DLRV's were MUCH smoother than I had expected, and everything ran well. I was very impressed.
I then walked accross the parking lot to the Trenton NJT station building, where I found out that I could make a 2:11 train northbound to Rahway, where I would be transfering to the NJCL. I grabbed a quick bite and then 10 minutes later went down to the platform, where the train was waiting. The train filled up quickly, and was pretty full by the time we left Edison. The train was 8 mixed cars, but I was lucky to be in a Comet V. The ride was pretty good, and ALL automated announcements were 100% correct! The train arrived at 2:50.
I ran lightning speed to the southbound island platform, as there was a chance that the 2:44 didn't arrive yet. Surely, I was right! The 2:44 arrived a bit late at 2:53, and I just barely made it! It was a push/pull set with 8 mixed cars. I think I was on an Arrow, although I wasn't paying attention. The ride was swift, and we arrived at a very busy Aberdeen-Matawan station at 3:14.
I then went to my aunt's house via cab for a dinner that night, and stayed over.
On Sunday I took NJT to NYP, and then rode various subway lines and SEPTA back to PHL. If anybody wants to see the second half of my trip, just tell!
>>The ride was pretty good, and ALL automated announcements were 100% correct!<<
It must have been snowing in Cancun at the same time!
>>I ran lightning speed to the southbound island platform<<
Just to correct, both railroads (Amtrak & NJ Transit) call that the "westbound" platform.
>>It was a push/pull set with 8 mixed cars. I think I was on an Arrow<<
Just to correct, there are no Arrows in push/pull consists. Only Comet cars.
-Nope, just never on a Comet V.
>>The ride was pretty good, and ALL automated announcements were 100% correct!<<
It must have been snowing in Cancun at the same time!
-It was so weird. They were right, but very low.
Yes, I knew what you meant. However, not too many people have any kind words about Comet V's. Click Here for the second in a series of Star-Ledger articles on the problems with Comet V's. They are disliked by both commuters and crew members alike.
Chuck Greene
My thanks to Joe Testagrose for all the great new images of stations on my favorite BMT elevated lines. Joe, it's great to see new work from a seasoned veteran such as yourself !
til next time
Turned out they were from Pittsburgh and had been at a concert. Apparently the Dog from Pittsburgh to Philly is a lot less than Pittsburgh to NYC.
I suggested they take the River Line then Patco, but couldn’t tell them how they would get to the Greyhound station. There was something of a cash constraint, they had $14 between them plus their Grehyound tickets.
Can anyone help me with information for next time?
Thanks!
Psst . . . next time, try Bustalk; they would know better.
Press release from official NYC web site:
MAYOR MICHAEL R. BLOOMBERG, GOVERNOR GEORGE E. PATAKI AND MTA CHAIRMAN PETER KALIKOW ANNOUNCE MTA TAKEOVER OF PRIVATE BUSLINES
MTA Takeover will Improve Service for Almost 400,000 Riders in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, Governor George E. Pataki and Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) Chairman Peter Kalikow today announced that the operation of seven private bus lines in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx will be transferred to the MTA by July 1, 2004. The MTA will assume all responsibility for the operation of the private lines. New York City will subsidize the MTA by financing the costs of operating the service beyond the revenue generated by State subsidies, fares and advertising. The transfer will ensure that the bus service is fully integrated with the transit service currently provided by the MTA and will result in a higher quality service and more efficient operations.
"The 390,000 residents of Co-op City, Canarsie, Middle Village, Rego Park and Forest Hills and the other neighborhoods that uses these buses deserve improved service and greater reliability," said Mayor Bloomberg. "For years they have stoically tolerated antiquated buses, and substandard and unreliable service. Nearly a third of the bus fleet is 17 years or older and many are not accessible for people with disabilities. Although, the City will continue to fully subsidize the bus service, it will get a better bang for its buck. New Yorkers will benefit from the efficiencies generated by this consolidation including the elimination of management and incentives fees paid to the private operators, reduced maintenance costs, insurance savings and the consolidation of fuel purchases."
"The MTA and the City have forged an important agreement to ensure better and more reliable bus service for commuters from Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx," Governor Pataki said. "Riders can look forward to improved service that will not keep people waiting at the curb, as well as 450 new, cleaner buses which will soon be added to the fleet. We will make sure that the transition is seamless so that commuters will not be inconvenienced while service is being transferred. I want to thank Mayor Bloomberg and Chairman Kalikow for working together to ensure that New York City riders get the transit service that they deserve."
"I want to thank Governor Pataki and Mayor Bloomberg for their continued commitment to mass transportation," said MTA Chairman Peter S. Kalikow. "The MTA provides the best and most efficient transportation service in the country and we look forward to bringing that same quality service to more transit customers in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx."
The City will lease all its bus-related assets to the MTA including approximately 450 new buses that are currently being purchased and the two bus depots that are owned by the City. At the City's request, the MTA will propose an amendment to its 2000-2004 Capital Plan to set aside a $322.5 million reserve that will be funded from resources originally allocated to the LaGuardia Airport subway extension, but are no longer slated for that project. This reserve will be used for additional fleet replacement, facilities and other necessary capital improvements.
The MTA will assume all union employees and will honor existing collective bargaining agreements and collective bargaining obligations until new agreements are negotiated. To affect this, the parties plan to meet with the unions in the near future. To ensure a seamless transition of service between the MTA and the private operators, the City will also begin immediate efforts to negotiate agreements that address owners concerns quickly and fairly.
As part of this overall agreement, the City will support the MTA Capital Plan Amendments, including the accelerated purchase of new Metro North Railroad cars. In exchange, the MTA has agreed to address the Transit Authority's traditional Capital Plan funding in its next Capital Program.
"This historic agreement is extremely complex and I want to congratulate Governor George Pataki, MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow, Department of Transportation Commissioner Iris Weinshall, Budget Director Mark Page and the Director of the Mayor's Office of Operations, Susan Kupferman for their hard work in getting this done and their dedication to improving the transportation system for the citizens of New York," concluded Mayor Bloomberg.
Any comments, etc? (Remember, don't expect anything professional; it's my first)
The map is located on this page:
http://railweb.homestead.com/fm1.html
Good luck on your future maps.
Yes, I know, I thought of this too... guess that's why it's not called a reality map, lol.
I made one myself (no fantasy though) @:
http://www.transitgallery.com/showpic.php?aid=225&pid=9973&uuid=60
BTW: IRT and BMT are incompatible, so your merging of the 8 and Astoria lines would be impossible in reality...then again, it's a fantasy map ;-)
Maybe a Train that connects The Bronx and Queens say from Pelham Bay Park with a last stop possibly at Willets Point/Shea Stadium?
But overall good job.
Even if it problalby won't happen (the NYC subway system extending outside of NYC), it would be cool if it did, seeing as NYC is the only city in the USA (I think) that has a heavy rail rapid transit system not leave the city.
Is that why the V line Bends North of Hillside Ave after Parsons Blvd, but has a stop for Merrick Blvd (which ends at Hillside), and Linden Blvd (Which is about 1.6 miles SOUTH of Hillside)?
Also it shows that the V line is fairly straight, but would have to do some serious Zig Zagging to make the stops you have on there.
living in atlanta now with no real train system makes me wish i was home!
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
It's time to replace the aging fleet of Work Cars, some of which are 55 years young.
-Stef
You mean R-44's will be sent to exotic locales like Honduras or Guyana for scrapping ? I can hardly wait !
Bill "Newkirk"
If you looked at 9307 it seemed like the whole train was to be painted at the same time. 9307 had silver traces from 9011.
That's what I had assumed. I've seen numerous "money trains" using R33's in their consists. This would probably be the ideal job for those retained for work service, given their condition and their air conditioned interiors.
What I wonder is if the R22s will stay in the consists.
wayne
Notice, they did put a 1 in front of the numbers.
Enjoy.
Is that true, and can a couple more, or even a few more be refurbished so that a sufficient number could be used for fan trips? Only 2 cars would be woefully insufficient for any excursion that usually draws about 4 cars worth of people.
Sorry if this topic has been touched on before, but inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.
Your pal,
Fred
-Stef
Being fined for have a swing set or the wrong colored mailbox is the american dream huh? I thought that was socialism.
Led by my favorite guy, btw, Randy Tool
"Local tour leaders on Friday criticized tax breaks and subsidies used to encourage high-density development along public transit lines."
I see, but tax breaks and incentives to build on rural lands are okey right? I love this one sudivision and office park I'm traveling to this week, it's SURROUNDED by cows! Which is the only reason I can get to it right now too!
Plus, I could be wrong, but them buses don't get around the stop and go traffic too well either.
I prefer living in my close-in suburban town with sidewalks, and all of my immediate needs a short walk away, or a bus ride away. I would die in a place like Voorhees or Washington Twp, where you need a car just to go to the goddamn 7-11, Wawa, or CVS.
Portland style planning is great also.
I don't see where the conflict is. Those who want to build McMansions can, and those who want density can also have it. If each party pay their fully allocated costs.
Mark
It's too bad though that so many people really believe that the sprawl world we've deliberately created is a product of free market forces, because it surely isn't.
Mark
Sorry again for the confusion.
Mark
Likewise, we have to be appreciate market forces, but rather than letting them rule us we have to use them creatively to get where we want to go, and sometimes move against them. But we have to be aware of them.
Mark
The reason for that is because the value of the land outside the township is so low, that the "free market" economics finds it beneficial to sprawl instead of building density, which is expensive.
The right response is to legislate in such a way to ensure that the sprawl occur in a sustainable way. For example, if the law said, for every sq. ft. of sprawl development, the sprawl developer must fund 10 times the sq. footage of public green space maintenance through property taxes, then the developers would think twice about putting in a big parking lot.
I know that you will argue that kind of legislation will not last, the sprawl lobby would have it repealed in no time. That may be true, but the anti-sprawl boundary seem to have stuck, at least in Portland. So why not do it the smarter way -- with economics instead of hard and fast rules like "sprawl boundaries".
Yes, that could be a problem. I think you are right that a truly free market result in ruling by the rich. On the other hand if democracy worked, then it would not be possible. From a political standpoint, I think that grass-roots campaign organized by the poor and middle-class usually has a big effect. The problem is that the middle class often don't care, and most of the poor are either too busy working to make ends meet or too uneducated to care.
I think the middle class needs to pay more attention to what is going on around them, instead of watching football and worrying about their kids' education.
AEM7
That's a big problem. Comfortable people ususally don't feel a need to change things, and they often fear change.
Mark
Mark
This is a good idea, but it's already being done, or at least in some counties. The only problem is, say instead of replacing what you destroy they fine you. Well now it's the cost of doing business.
$1000 a tree cut down w/o a permit, destroying wetland habitats? We'll put that in the economic cost of land coloumn, just charge a few bucks more to the end person.
Some government projects though, like the expansion of the #2nd largest convention center in the US, they have to buy wetlands to make up for what they build on. The headwaters to the Everglades can never be built on now. :) I'm not sure where the line is drawn.
I do like the malls that are surrounded by parking garages instead asphalt oceans. Not only does the mall fit more spaces on it's property, the drivers don't have to be exposed to rain, or 200 degree car interiors. If only we could zone that into law(excluding supermarkets etc).
Impact fees are actually a good way to prevent pollution and the like. The problem arises when they're set too low. The fees have to be set based on the damage being done by the impact being charged for.
So it shouldn't be illegal to build on the Everglades, it should just cost $100,000,000,000,000.
Who said anything about McMansions, there aren't many of them around. I personally only know of one really ritzy community you can call mcmansions, and that's on the flight path of an airport(yes they complain). Generally there aren't many mansions per city, and they're in area's typically look nice(trust me, where's all the peoples second homes you think?). ANd the rich and famous don't normally commute in rush hour.
We're talking about taking a rural farming area, stick in a phosphate mine and a landfill, developer comes in, raises taxes, gas taxes property taxes, offers a million bucks to a farmer, builds one road, 20,000 "houses" go up, displace the cows, causes traffic congestion, crime, strain on government services, contaminated water from runoff(oil and fertilizer), overpumping rivers leading to droughts/sinkholes, fat people(because it's .5-2 miles to the sidewalk from your subdivision), and air pollution(leading to respiratory disease). Not to mention the accidents and loss of life from a car only area(which is a huge economic indicator, you're loss of limb and property helps the economy).
We see it everyday. That's what we don't like. That affects all of us. And i'm not talking one or two subdivisions, i'm talking thousands. All these thousands of people per day have to live somewhere, and hell if they look at the house they buy before it's built before they complain.
Now, on a slow newsweek, pick any of those subjects and that will be front page on my sunday paper.
And it's not what people want to live in when they move here, the laws of supply and demand state that is supply overpowers demand in full force, people will buy crap(it's that way in the hotel business). How else do you explain the houses going up at the foothill of a landfill, or a gypsum stack that's been in the news for 2 years on how it's about to overflow and flood the joint.
Plus, there's never a year that goes by where there isn't a bunch of elections touting sales taxes to build more schools and roads. Think about this, I live here, i'm already here, and they want me to to vote yes to give more taxes to build more infrastructure so some developers can get richer while paying less and so other people can move in by the millions?
Why dont I just donate 5% of my paycheck for down payment on a house for everyone int eh state of Illinois!
It doesn't matter what way you slice it, it doesn't look good. I'm voting anti-sprawl this November, along what will possibly be everyone else.
And I just skimmed the surface.
But thank god(allah) i live in Florida! From todays sentinal:
" And now, a bill that would protect the fragile Wekiva River ecosystem from rampant development is in doubt for the second year in a row.
Bush, like every Florida governor for the past 25 years, is finding that managing the state's growth is akin to riding a rodeo bull -- mostly you hold tight and go along for the ride.
The crush of residents -- 4 million newcomers since 1990 -- along with out-of-control urban sprawl, disappearing wetlands and forests, and growing concerns about the state's water supply are all problems that continue to mount with no real solutions in sight.
Even controversies related to crowded classrooms and high-speed rail can be boiled down to growth-related problems.
"People agree they need to reform [growth management], but they don't trust these people -- they don't trust the Republican governor and Legislature to make the reforms that are necessary," said Lance deHaven-Smith, a professor at Florida State University's Reubin O'D. Askew School of Public Administration and Policy.
Some of the public's frustration with uncontrolled growth can be seen in grass-roots movements such as Florida Hometown Democracy, a group that wants to give voters -- rather than local and state officials -- the right to approve development in rural areas. The group is gathering signatures to put the issue on a statewide ballot in the next year or two."
----
We watch it daily and hate it!
And Portland is still #1 desirable place to move to amoung young ppl in a study this year!!!!
Kiss this goodbye, there's a subdivision going up on my right(being pictographed) that is at least .5 - 1mile away from the street. good luck going for a walk!
The same goes for transit. If one wants relief of overcrowded feeders and trunk lines, and has to deal with a lobby that thinks expanding the LIE and BQE is the answer, get his/her posse of "I want a new Queens Line!" together and fight it.
But like I said, this exists in theory at a minimum, and with the current trend in city and national politics (e.g. the West Side Stadium), it is for a limited time only.
It applies here in KC about transit, taxes, business development - of course, compared to NYC the folks here are amateurs...
Mark
Aka Liberalism.
Mark
An exercise in free speech, but that's about it..
That's what he did in Orlando actually. He wrote a paper using(touting) orlando as a great example of how to be transit free. You know the conversation you hear in stores, elevators, supermarkets? traffic. You know how mayors get voted?
taxes? no
crime? no
Traffic? yes. All they have to do is have a traffic plan everyone agrees with, and in they go.
Not to mention the endless tax plans, accidents, and articles, and quips from famous ppl(Senator Nelson, wow you guys have a lot of traffic and it aint' even rush hour!).
It's fine if you dont' liek where you live, but dont make up stories on how none of us have any problems and what we should do if you don't have a clue. Randy Tool and Wendel C%#ks can stick it!
BTW: Orlando is in the top ten or in the area in costs of transporation, accidents, fatilities, and traffic. I didn't endure 4+ wrecks per day to be the example city.
Starting Friday, Port Authority of Allegheny County will begin regular testing of transit vehicles on the reconstructed Overbrook line. The 5.5-mile rail system is scheduled to open officially in June, although the exact date hasn't been set.
The project also reinforced slide-prone hillsides, transit officials said.
The Stage II project includes reconstruction of other tracks; expansion of the Operational Control Center at South Hills Village; construction of more park-and-ride lots and stations; and the upgrade of the transit system to a 650-volt power grid.
I currently run a web design and hosting company. I am in the process of creating a new transit website, and need your help! I need contributors for the following, but this will be unique from other rail transit sites.
-I am planning on havinga whole section showing off fantasy maps from different users and from cities all around the world. I am currently covering fantasy maps for New York, Philadelphia, and NJ, but any other place, or any other maps from these places, is welcome.
-Photos- although I do have some photos of my own, it would be nice to have a photo gallery/database where users can upload their photos. I am debating on whether I should have a higher end thing, where all photos will be screened first, or a premium/user type setup.
-Also, I want transit maps and links from all over the world, for the site.
-Any other of YOUR suggestions will go into place. This is a user site. Once it launches in a few weeks, all user feedback will be accepted. All contributors will get a premium membership and guarenteed screening to start.
Thank you in advance, however you can help!
Matt
Once I get more contributers, more time, and more resources, I will open the member section and galleries. The full site as I plan now should be up by June 1.
Since I had an unlimited, I collected two GO transfers valid until June 30. Since they are similar to the old timey (pre 1997) transfers, I'll keep at least one as a souvenir.
The Rockaway stations still have the booth in the middle of the turnstiles, although you'd have to know about the old double fare in order to recognize that the booth configuration is significant.
You are incorrect.
I cetainly didn't mean my first MTA bus ride. I meant: it was my first MTA bus ride IN a while, not and.
Since I had an unlimited, I collected two GO transfers valid until June 30. Since they are similar to the old timey (pre 1997) transfers, I'll keep at least one as a souvenir.
Yeah, I also have the old paper transfer as a keeper. Also its a good opportunity to get some Airtrain pics. Also if anyone is interested, the shuttle train is doing a Round Robin.
Huge TTC fan,
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse (PRR forever!)
By the way, Chris, I heard a great recording of a Pennsy T1 starting up with one set of wheels slipping; awesome sound.
Thanks in advance!,
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
Now on to the real question: fantasy maps. I've heard lots of TTC plans that I think would be cool. Extensions of the new Sheppard subway east to Scarborough, connecting with the SRT. Or westward to make a bridge between the branches of the Yonge-Spadina line. Speaking of Young-Spadina, I've heard of plans to extend it from Downsview to the York University. That would have been convenient three years ago when I had a conference there. Another plan I saw called for connecting Yonge-Spadina's two ends in a giant loop that stretched north, east, and west of where it currently ends.
Something I've wondered about is the "corners" of Toronto. The layout of the city kind of reminds me of Chicago, were one to rotate it counterclockwise a bit, what with it's being built along the shore of a Great Lake. I've wondered why there weren't routes connceting the northwest and northeast parts of town to downtown, analogous to Chicago's Blue Line and Orange Line which connect that city's northwest and southwest to downtown. Is there just not that much built up in those directions?
Mark
There have also been rumours of extending the B-D Westward to the Dixie GO station, I don't think that is a smart Idea.
If you wish to see proposals, go to Transit.Toronto.on.ca , it is a very good site. They also have plans for a harbourfront LRT.
Well, Its late, Time for bed, but tomorrow is a brand new day of Subtalking!
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
The northeast is served to some extent by the Scarborough LRT, an incompatible extension to the Bloor-Danforth line. The extreme northeast corner contains the zoo and the Rouge Valley, something of a beauty spot. We have no hills, only valleys!
The northwest is served to some extent by the Spadina-Downsview end of the Yonge-Spadina line. The extreme northwest corner is built-up and is close to Pearson airport; from time to time some politician proposes a line to the airport. But there is an existing rail line from Union Station that passes close to the airport, and an airport rail service could be created quite easily.
Commuter rail in the Greater Toronto Area is run by the Government of Ontario (GO). There is a busy GO line along the lakeshore, and there are peak-hour services on several other lines. They use bi-level trains. When trains are not warranted, GO runs buses.
Former Toronto mayor Lastman, who was previously mayor of North York (now the northern part of Toronto) tried to make North York into a second downtown. That may be why the Sheppard line was built; Premier Harris wanted to cancel it but it was too late.
When I was there, the Sheppard-Yonge was well on its way to becoming a second downtown, with its own skyscrapers and everything. (Toronto kind of reminds me of Atlanta in this regard, as Atlanta has a second "downtown" in Buckhead, well north of Downtown and Midtown.)
Mark
I think I'll keep paying that $2.25 TTC fare ;-)
http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/spadina_extension/spadina_extension.htm
As far as I know there isn't any money for the actual building of this, but this Environmental Assessment was included as a project in the $1 Billion funding agreement as well as an EA for the Sheppard Line expansion to Scarborough Town Centre.
I think the subway lines are officially numbered, but not used for public purposes.
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
(Home from a great Toronto streetcar charter on Sunday, with the Peter Witt, a PCC, and a CLRV--over six hours of great riding. Also did lots of additional riding on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights.))
Time is starting to take its toll on my poor braincells...
If I remember correctly, most were pretty straightforward, but there are a few that I just can't remember.
Queen = 501
Downtowner ?? = 502
??? = 503
King = 504
Dundas = 505
Carlton = 506
Long Branch = 507
St. Clair = 512
I think there were a couple of others as well, but I could be mistaken. Now they don't even short-turn at Connaught any more if memory serves.
What were the terminii for the Downtowner and whatever the 503 was called? I think the Downtowner ran on KR from Vic Park down to Queen, across Queen to York then looped somewhere downtown. 503 was a rush hour service that ran on King, but I don't recall where it went in the east end - did it run to Connaught, Kingston Rd. or to the end of Queen Street? Were there any rush-hour only services from Downtown to the west end?
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.6 Now Available!
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
Ed Alfonsin
Potsdam, New York
^inside...the bathrooms have a good view of the skyline too!
^here's the deal
Imagine standing on the platform of a dead station, that used to be bustling with 3 rail lines, and Steam!!
^ If you see the movie "The Punisher", this is the hideout taht's shown in it. I have some better pics actually, but it's right across from the station. I also have pics of the bridge used in it. That's the only two scenes I personally know so far that I coincidently took a picture of.
I guess that means I got the same taste as location scouts!!!
The rest of union station can be seen here
And platform pics are including in the Jet-train pictures I guess.
I did have some fun today during a wrong turn into the projects, real projects!
I know what you mean. Being built during the era of the great trains one has to ask, what year was Carnegie building his libraries nationwide. This station was 1912, if it's the same time, that would explain the similarities and influence.
But without researching before I go to bed...I think Carnegie's libraries were earlier.
I just hope some random old piece of passenger equipment is gone tomorrow like I think it is. i hate to miss a chance to snap something new and old.
Carnegie libraries were being built as late as the early 1920's.
An old ERA Bulletin indicates that the above two stations were closed on July 13th 1981, rebuilt, and reopened on June 18th, 1982.
Cleveland St, Van Siclen Ave & Alabama Ave were closed for rebuilding on Feb. 1st, 1983. I have not located their reopening date yet.
Shuttle buses served the riders during those periods of time that the stations were closed.
After seeing a page on Kevin Walsh's site about Queens Alleys, I e-mailed him, suggesting he do a similar page on Crescent between Fulton and Jamaica, with its wealth of obscure and unusual small streets and blocks.
Cleveland St, Van Siclen Ave & Alabama Ave were closed for rebuilding on February 1, 1983, and were reopened at 12:00 noon on February 3, 1984.
wayne
Bad news first because it shouldn't be that hard to swallow...
All current image links are now dead because of a new file system we are using. Please update your links to reflect the new file naming system. I apologize for that.
Good news:
You can now upload a photo with any size resolution, and file size! The original quality of the image is retained! There is no limit to the size of a photo, or file size. However, please use web-reasonable resolutions and file sizes. The gallery will also take up less space (this is more like good news for me than the end-user)!
Once again, I apologize for the bad news, but the good news outweighs that in my opinion.
Feel free to contact:
gallery@subwayspot.com
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
RED LINE
GLENMONT
6 CAR TRAIN
2 MINUTES
No approaching message. The message before was 3 minutes, the next one was arriving. Did not notice if any other displays did that today, they most definatley did not do it on Saturday.
I'm glad to see them going back to showing two minutes, though. Note, though, that the system still isn't perfect, since that's an Orange Line train to Vienna in the lower left-hand corner of the photo.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Of course, realize this is also the same PIMS that occasionally inserts imaginary trains onto the lines, that count down and "arrive" with no train in sight.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
Mark
p.s.---See y'all on June 5th (I figured I'd use a southern drawl for all you northerners :)
But seriously, I've noticed more northern folk using the word "y'all" lately, at least in Philly. While it's about time the English language had a second-person plural pronoun, I'm curious as how it happened.
Mark
Mark
Hey Mark---ya gonna make it down this way for the Scavenger Hunt?
Mark
Mark
: )
Mark
Please please PLEASE get me close shots of the flashing signs announcing the next train. NOT the PIMS, the ones at Rosslyn and the other transfer stations where lines diverge. But ESPECIALLY Rosslyn and Pentagon.
I was initially gonna go (Chuck was to drive me with him, but he has a prior engagement), so I can't snag these shots myself.
The signs are located at King Street, Pentagon, Rosslyn, L'Enfant Plaza, and Stadium-Armory.
Is Chuck not coming? Why not take Amtrak or Greyhound down?
The best one to get a good shot of while in action is the one at L'Enfant Plaza. Lights up very brightly, which is more than can be said about most of them.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
I will most likely be there as of now, my potential conflict most likely will not happen.
My trip started on PATCO, where I walked to the Collingswood station and ran up the escalator, arriving on the platform at 04:09 to see the 04:10 heading toward Ferry Ave. I went downstairs and used the help phone to give the gentleman on the other end of the phone a piece of my mind. Now being more mentally deficient than usual, I waited for the 4:40, which left at 4:39. I told the train operator that I was a disgruntled passenger and related my story. Ninety seconds after leaving the Collingswood platform he turned on the front ceiling lights and looked at his watch: 4:40:20.
I walked from 16th & Locust to 30th Street Station (SEPTA sleeps at night), getting there in 17 minutes with a brief photographic stop.
I walked right down to the platform and boarded Amtrak's Federal, reserved seat ticket in hand, and got standing room. The train was overbooked by at least five passengers between Philly and Wilmington, where we all got seats and the Wilmington boarders stood to Baltimore.
Ambox on rear of Federal
The chartered train was sold out, with nine MARC single level coaches, two engines on the front and one on the back.
Immediately out of Washington Union Station, we saw the trackwork on METRO's Red Line.
Red Line trackwork
There were many interesting things to photograph early in the trip,
VRE F40
VRE F40 and GP40
Sounder coach
and then the CSX action.
South Baltimore
South Baltimore
Heading west on the Western Maryland, we passed the MTA Subway Shops at Leahigh Yard and soon after we saw an inbound subway train approaching Milford Mill station.
Arriving in Hagerstown, three fallen flag freight cars were photographed.
Family Lines covered hopper
Most of the Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum's equipment was inaccessible, but much of it could be photographed from our train.
MARC GP40WH-2
MARC GP39H-2
GP40WH-2
east end of train
watering the coaches
Museum Baldwin VO-1000
American Legion 40 and 8
More CSX, in Hagerstown
road slug
road slug with partner
The return from Hagerstown to Washington, via WM to Cherry Run, WV, and B&O through Martinsburg and Harpers Ferry, was very scenic, but didn't lend itself to photography from my vantage point, which I couldn't adjust because the train was sold out.
Arrival in Washington Union Station was in time for me to catch the 7:25 Regional back to Philly, arriving 17 minutes late at 9:30 because of problems between baltimore and Wilmington.
The Washington, DC, Chapter-NRHS is experienced in running such excursions and did an outstanding job. After seeing photos of Saturday's MOD trip, I'm envious of those who rode and photographed it, but I'm also very satisfied with my experience on the Catoctin Mountain Limited.
Excellent connections with the Market Street and PATCO had me in my front door at 10:05 PM.
Thank you for your constructive input.
Also, the trip must have been very slow since the trackage can't have been that good.
Do you know how much CSX was paid for their services? How much was the ticket price?
AEM7
The track wasn't bad at all. We ran slower than anticipated, though, and were 1:45 late arriving Hagerstown (2:45 instead of 1:00). We stopped for about 20 minutes to load the catered lunch.
I have no idea how much CSX was paid. Ticket price was around $80.
John
Oh well.
Thanks
Mark
Bob
Just as information, there are several resorts in the Cacoctin Mountains. If I recall right, three are open to the public, and the fourth is Camp David, the presidential retreat.
Also: Both sides of the Williamsburg Bridge are FINALLY open for the first time since rehab began!
wayne
I eagerly await!!!
Da Hui
wayne
Work is an understatement when it comes to Chambers ;-).
wayne
wayne.
Doesn't look like it has the "diamonds" like Bowery, Canal, Fulton and Broad have, but that's ok.
What camera do you use, Broadway Junction?
How much was it, and where did you buy it??
Take care.
wayne
PS where the transfer to the "F" is on the citybound platform, they've moved the wall back a good 8 to 10 feet to make more platform space.
wayne
wayne
Seems like the correct legal decision to me.
Seems like the correct legal decision to me.
Then WADR you must be a NIMBY. Many other states use motor fuel tax revenue to keep commuter rail going. New Hampshire's new motto ought to be "Live Free and Die (of Cancer)" in that case . . .
Noted how the article described the decision as a "victory for the trucking industry". It's an utter loss for commuters and day-trippers to/from Boston, though.
The legislature has to either find another funding source or change the constitution. Pretty cut and dry here ...
Granted, some of the bases for a decision by a state's highest court are made of some pretty flimsy cloth - but if they had indeed violated the state constitution, they would have been Rehnquist meat for CERTAIN. (grin)
Excuse me... Since I'm car free, can I have my tax money stolen and NOT used in any more road construction?? This is insane. The people who are using those highways are also the people who are going to use the rail road. This clown thinks only gas taxes are used to fund his highways. In fact, most of those matching funds come from the Federal government and they get those moneys from car free tax payers like myself.
The motor fuel taxes and other road related fees in question in the ruling are revenues collected at the state level. If you live in New Hampshire and are car free you don’t directly pay these taxes and other related fees. Those of us that live outside New Hampshire whether we are car free or not are not affected by this ruling concerning the federal taxes we pay.
John
I think his point is: he pays Federal income taxes, and therefore indirectly pays for Federal programs, one of which is the 80/20 Federal/Local highway program. The official line there is that all the money for the highway program (at the Federal level) comes out of the highway trust fund. I don't know whether this is true or not.
Even if it were true, an argument could still be made that highway construction generates externalities, and therefore should be subject to a "tax" whose proceeds are used to compensate the losers. That is already happening -- it is how highway money has been used to pay off the abutters when highways are widened, build transit as mitigation, and used to build urban parks etc. There's lots of parks and wetlands out there that are build with gas tax money. The key here, is that whenever a new highway is proposed, the protesters must act quickly and scream loudly for "mitigation". That's how you can use gas tax money to build the community garden, transit extension, and noise deflecting walls that you have always wanted, but never could build.
AEM7
You would be surprised to know there is a definition of what roads are eligible for federal moneys for construction and maintenance. Its called the national network of highways or some thing similar. The national network of highways is composed of all the Interstate and US highways as well as large number of miles of major state arterial roads and streets.
The total number of mileage eligible for federal moneys is a lot higher then you might think.
If you really want to learn something about the history of roads in the United States. How they evolved in to the network we have today, how they were funded, where the funds came from and how the rail industry was involved. I suggest the following volume published in 1976 by the United States Department of Transportation as part of the celebration of the United States Bicentennial "America's Highways 1776-1976". Most public libraries should have a copy. You might still be able to get a copy for free by request, by calling 301-577-0818, fax your order to 301-577-1421, or email report.center@fhwa.dot.gov.
John
Mark
Where in Metro Mall did you work exactly, Chris?
Now really, what are you gonna do with a piece of a sign???
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
Your pal,
Fred
- Well minus two important features in the distance anyway...
Your pal,
Fred
Darn! That used to be my home line, so my photos of it are endless,
Heh, I was just playing, it was an excuse to post some photos of my old line that I had been through literally thousands of times in the 70's as a kid, 80's as a teenager and early 90's when most of my photos are from. I really enjoyed your photos, especially the one under the el. None of us (including myself) take too many photos from under rather than on top.
even without those two important features.
The views from Forest Ave are specatular. Well, not like let's say Smith-9th, but for a station that is so far from Manhattan, and in the middle of Queens-Brooklyn, the views are very good. Ridgewood is high up, sort of on a large hill, and all the buildings are the same height, so you can see right over them and the entire skyline from various parts of the platform. You can even see the Williamsburg Bridge towers on very clear days. Here's the view of Lower Manhattan today (well last year). The Willy B is there, because I saw it when I took the photo, but I can't find it in the photo itself. You can see midtown too from a different part of the platform.
That bag on the signal is interesting; what do you suppose that was all about?
The signals were being replaced in the early 90's, and the "new" ones that were not yet in use were covered with bags, until the old ones were disconnected and removed.
Here's one for the road. And Fred, railfan the line, and one day, we'll play some more...
Someone probably made a few bucks selling it as scrap metal.
Not so bright as Seneca.
...And so my mission failed. But I had fun taking shots at night (although I could use some work...) Maybe I'll try again on the 1st of May.
For some reason there are quite a few homeless that take up residency on the train. One Sat on the shuttle some time ago, one car was not usable (and empty) because the homeless man that took up residency stunk so bad you couldn't even sit in the car.
I wonder why bums, etc like the shuttle, because the neighborhoods it goes through are not really that bad. Metro Ave is a very good neighborhood in Middle Village. Fresh Pond Rd, Forest Ave, Seneca Ave are all in Ridgewood, which is a very stable working class neighborhood. Wyckoff and Knickerbocker are Ridgewood/Bushwick border, maybe a bit less nice than the 3 stations mentioned above, but still not horrible. Only Central and Myrtle-Bway are a more marginal area, but even those have improved.
-Adam
(allisonb500r@aol.com)
Taken on Feb. 28 from the new pathway along the Schuylkill. Rested the camera on a railing and set it to a 4 second (IIRC) exposure at twilight.
... At the City's request, the MTA will propose an amendment to its 2000-2004 Capital Plan to set aside a $322.5 million reserve that will be funded from resources originally allocated to the LaGuardia Airport subway extension, but are no longer slated for that project. This reserve will be used for additional fleet replacement, facilities and other necessary capital improvements.
Sure here is more than that to say.
I was just surprised.
Mark
Anyway, maybe the PA ought to seek funds to build an extended subway network connecting NY and urbanized parts of NJ to a greater extent than subway service does now.
Folks, this is old news. The LaGuardia Airport Subway Extension ('LASA') project has been dead for several years. The money appropriated was suffient only to study the project, not to construct it. Once it became apparent that there wasn't going to be enough capital to build LASA and all of the other transit projects people want, something had to give. Other initiatives (East Side Access, SAS) were deemed to be more important.
This has nothing to do with the MTA's ability to build new subway lines--they'll build what Washington and Albany are willing to pay for.
Mark
I don't have the specific numbers handy, but I'll bet that the DCA/BOS shuttles account for maybe 20% of all flights at LGA, probably less. LGA is also popular with business travelers, especailly those who take taxis or car services to their destinations, as it is the closest to Manhattan of the three main airports. I'd also say that those business travelers would not take kindly to cessation of the shuttles.
By the way, EWR is very nearly maxed out. It cannot absorb all of LGA's traffic. JFK is not maxed, but it's a lot farther from midtown. Just to give you an idea, a taxi from EWR to my apartment is about $60. From JFK, it's about $45, and from LGA it's about $26 (all including toll and tip).
Ironically I think that LGA would have been a better first target for a PA AirTrain than Kennedy as a high proportion of the travellers would have only an overnight bag, if that. Given sufficiently frequent service to Manhattan I think the LGA train could get more cars off the road than any other.
Of course, if I still lived on 33rd Road in Long Island City, as I used to, I would then be disappointed, as I could get a cab into Manhattan whenever I needed one as 21st Street was a frequent route for empty cabs back into Manhattan!
You have to understand that from planning to opening, such a project can easily take 15 years, maybe 20. It's true that JFK isn't maxed out now, but you can't wait till it gets there to figure out what to do about it.
That's why the interest at Teterboro.
Too much opposition, though.
No room for a fourth -- unless you want to take a few lanes from the Turnpike.
CG
LGA is popular with business travellers not only because it is so close to Manhattan, but also because it does not present the scheduling problems that JFK does. JFK has excess capacity up until about 5:00 PM. After that, getting a take-off or landing slot at JFK is extremely difficult. If an airline can snag one, they're much more likely to use it for a 400 seat plane heading to Europe than they are a 100 seater going to Chicago.
Getting rid of either airport is going to be difficult. LGA handles about 1.6 million passengers per month, while JFK handles about 2.6 million. Generally speaking JFK handles the larger aircraft which can't land on LGA's short runways, plus some short-haul connecting flights, plus JetBlue. LGA handles the high-frequency business runs.
I continue to believe that connecting the AirTrain from JFK to LGA would create one super-regional airport and would be a tremendous boom for NY air travellers, creating lower fares, more options and increasing take-off/landing fees for the PA.
A Broadway line extension to LGA would put many of those business travelers onto the subway. Plenty take the subway in Chicago, and this would be a much shorter trip that would put you in walking distance of almost any Manhattan business district. Whether it is cost-justified is another question entirely.
CG
And it's something that nobody has proposed, aside from a couple of odd and unexplained comments earlier in this thread.
Interesting trivia - the problem with LGA's runways is not their length, as often believed. Both are 7,000 feet, which is enough at the airport's sea level elevation to handle any commercial aircraft, though possibly with some weight restrictions in hot weather - note that St. Martin's runway is also 7,000 feet, and it can handle anything up to and including a 744. The real problem at LGA is that parts of each runway are built out over Flushing Bay and therefore have significant weight limitations, they're simply not strong enough to hold jumbo jets in sufficient safety.
I believe there is also a law which prevents weekday direct flights from LGA to anywhere west of Dallas and/or Minneapolis.
CG
Correct, although it's expressed in terms of distance rather than by specific city. ATA runs (or ran, I'm not sure) a Saturday-only nonstop to San Francisco, which was allowed because it was on a weekend.
You can get to LGA solely on a single MTA fare - take almost any train to 125th Street (2,3,A,B,C,D,4,5,6, or MNRR), the 1/9 to 110th, or the N/W to Astoria Blvd, and then the M60 bus. From midtown the total trip can be made in an hour or so, for a single $2 fare. Cab fare from midtown is on the order of $20 including tip and tolls.
Of course from midtown one can take NJT to Newark EWR station, and then the AirTrain to Newark Airport, but that costs a lot more.
And JFK - it's either a $40+ cab fare or a long, long ride from most anywhere in the city. Yes, even with the LIRR CityTicket and AirTrain (which together cost substantially more than a single $2 MetroCard swipe) it's a long ride all the way out there. Make no mistake about it, as Dubya likes to say, you're gonna be sitting on trains for a good chunk of time.
LGA is the only airport you can get to from most of the city for $2 AND be there, like before tomorrow. For me (UWS), LGA is by far the easiest and cheapest airport to get to, and a large fraciton of the city's residents are in the same position as I.
As someone who both lives and works in Lower Manhattan, LaGuardia is both closer and cheaper by taxi than JFK.
Newark is about the same amount of time as LGA, but the fare to EWR is much higher.
Most domestic locations are better served from LGA, certainly ALL Shuttle Flights (and why aren't you using the TRIAN!) are from LGA.
But if you require international travel, only JFK will do.
Elias
The owners are scum and deserve nothing.*
*Well, OK, they do deserve just compensation for the property bought from them
The pension system is weird and how they cover it in the transition is a big question. MABSTOA does not have a NYCERS pension plan and is possibly very underfunded. Adding the private lines to this might make it another bubble ready to burst.
To make matters worse, many of the drivers will be given pink slips.
From an article that I read yesterday, they say the drivers who are currently in the DOT but were fired by the MTA within the last 3 years would not be taken in the massive reorganization should it occur. Whether or not it would happen remains to be seen.....
I can help accelerate some of that work.
Yes, by being sacrificed to Huitzilopochtli.
While this is highly depressing, I do see the logic behind it given the mentality of those we elect, and then RE elect. :(
Mommy, Daddy, big brother Sammy and Emily are all doing well.
Hopefully the SAS will have been started before she enters the working world in about 2025, but I'm not holding my breath.
Your pal,
Fred
Robert
Maybe by the time she's ready to retire.
But anyway, that's cool news!
Elias
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Chuck Greene
--Mark
The (4) WoodlawnBowlingGreen
-Added skip stop service on the 1/9 and J/Z (J has been displayed as an express train);
-different (more contrasting) shade of blue for the 8th Ave. line;
-some errors were corrected.
Link:
http://www.transitgallery.com/showpic.php?aid=225&pid=10040&uuid=60
or, for a quick preview:
-Alargule
and the Q will go to CI, no B.
Awsome.
-Chris
Thanks to whoever put this pic up.
Is this correct? There is an SAS spur tunnel containing a pit for inspection of trains? I thought inspections always took place at the various yards? Why was this built?
Thanks....
Between the homeless who like to hang out in there; to the "guys" who want to play with themselves and the other assorted people who are drawn to the restrooms, For the most part subway restrooms were closed. Those that are still open usually have to be cleaned at least once a day and police patrol them several times a day.
In some stations, getting to the restroom is a bit risky, as you have to round a corner and then climb a short narrow set of stairs in a narrow hallway. Just look at the restroom at Transit Museum in Court St. That's probably how most IND restrooms were designed.
I remember them from the early 60s. They were filthy, frequently stopped up, and you would have to be pretty damn desperate to actually sit on one of them. Perhaps I remember sout of crouching over one... bombs away, without actually sitting down on the thing.
Perhaps I recall also that they used to be PAY TOILETS, until the state made a sick bird (ill eagal) out of that, and so they were mostly closed shortly after that. That is the coin locks were removed, and the hobos and the homos moved in, sanitation took a nose dive, and station supts (I suppose) took to locking them... perhaps at first for "Maintenance" and then for "Repairs" and then just forgot about them.
The state's outlawing of pay toilets was the STOOPITEST thing they could have done. Drop a token to use the potty was not a bad price back then (they were 5 and later 10 cents), a swipe now would still not be an overly outragious price for a CLEAN facility.
The BEST way to provide for this now would to be to RENT OUT station space to the likes of McDs, Starbucks etc, and make the maint of the public rest room part of their rental agreement.
Elias
I doubt that was part of the cause. Try not using such words as some might take offense to what you just posted above.
Regards,
Jimmy
It was indeed. People *did* use the men's rooms for that purpose, with some hanging out there to solicit sex. The word was chosen to aliterate with "hobo", and not for any deragotory purpose, although those who would hangout in subway "tearooms" for that pupose had to be pretty low-down to begin with.
Elias
Regards,
Jimmy
Please give credit where it's due... there are plenty of straight pervs like me out there too, and I'm sure they're just as shocked as I at their omission :)
*goin back to the subway restroom*
Or just make it look like you intend to. Stand on the line for a few seconds, act like you're annoyed at the long line, and proceed to the restroom.
From my observations, station restrooms were generally maintained at a level of sanitation rather like those of gas stations - little to none. They were always places of last resort.
The men's rooms remained open systemwide into the early 1980s, I believe the women's rooms began closing in the 70s due to crime. Closure was attributed to a combination of factors - rising numbers of homeless, drug use and (at least in the case of the men's rooms) their popularity as a place for casual sex, which became a huge liability at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic.
On the mezzanine that joins the IRT and BMT station, there are now restrooms that are paid for by a private sponsor. There is a uniformed guard that monitors who uses the single use lavatory. The toilet is stainless steel with a real white toilet seat and there is a sink with SOAP. No paper towels or air dryers though.
Not exactly like home, but when you gotta go........
Bill "Newkirk"
Peace,
ANDEE
Does that mean you you have a choice of #1 or #2, but not both?
Where's the guard positioned at? At the entrance or by the urinal, and do I gotta tip him?
Serioulsy, who's the private sponser(is it a person or company?) and why does you're description sound like that thing is for use as a last resort.
Da Hui
Why else would you be in subway or St George Ferry bathrooms unless you "had to go?"
Your continent pal,
Fred
Weird, isn't it?
Da Hui
I haven't seen them on the road yet, but if I do, I'll check 'em out.
The V is now a Full time Service.
Rockaway Branch ROW Used.
No slit A service.
La Guardia Service.
Several Extentions
It must be very serious that the R was diverted to Astoria because the R can switch over to the express track north of Queens Plaza station.
Were you able to make it back to where you had to go, or did you just enjoyed the diversion?
Where did you hear that?
I have recently contributed to the NYCTA article there, adding the dates of fare hikes from 1970 on. I don't have information about 1953 and 1966.
Who wrote that?
An example: 42nd / Broadway and 42nd / 8th.
Another example: 16th entrance for 14th / 6th and 14th / 7th.
I don't know if that also applies to Bleecker, but it probably does. Jersey Mike failed to find out for me like he was supposed to.
Can a FUN PASS be used for simultaneous (more than 1) admissions to the system
at the same station/turnstyle?
The 18 minute rule.
I KNEW I forgot10 something.
By simultaneous I'd meant saaaaay, if Kevin Marks, David Johnson, Joseph Gladstone, and myself
all trotted down into 96th Street, would we all be able to enter 1-after-D-other....
Solely theoretical Q.
Thanks for the reminder about the 18, pig. :)
Sorry brah, you will be in violation on two laws, one for fare evasion on ALL FOUR persons (including yourself) for unauthorized use of fare media without NYCT permission, you yourself aiding the other 3 people in the fare evasion, and the second law for unlawful loitering because you were hanging around for no purpose. And if someone sees you acting in a suspicious manner (I know you mean well), can we say "hello police"?
There, I've said it.
Tho you're forgetting 1 can always fend them off by cracking open a tuna canister in their presence at 5am......
if it happens to be passing by on the express track from 59 to 125 for best longterm exposure!
Discuss!
Chuck Greene
Hudson Bergen is more descriptive while the word "Liberty" means nothing to the imagination on where the train is going. Leave it alone.
Now that the RiverLINE is open, some businesses are statring to use the line in promotong their business ["Located at the ....RiverLine stop!"]. It has been used for years for the PATCO and PATH systems, why not the light rail lines.
But how does that make a case for changing the name of the line? PATCO and PATH are about as "catchy" as HBLRT. How about changing the PATH name to "DowntownDirect" or something in that case . . . ? (Besides, when it comes to PATH, I much prefer H&M.)
Regardless of where the Liners were running, they were still ElectroLiners to me. Rode them in both places, to my good furtune.
The only "holiday" that I know about today is Hitler's birthday, and I highly doubt that's what you have in mind.
(also, the holiday is NOT the anniversary of columbine)
Then again, I knew someone who was born on September 11th (1983), which would have made him 18 on that dreadful day.
1687 publication of Newton's Principia
1811 Venezuela declares independence
1830 France invades Algeria
1943 Battle of Kursk
1948 National Health Service Act (UK)
1971 Voting age reduced to 18 in the USA
However, I do share a birthday with some eminent historical figures:
1810 Phineas Barnum
1853 Cecil Rhodes
1909 Andrei Gromyko
1911 Georges Pompidou
1996 Dolly the sheep
I suppose it could have been worse - my girlfriend shares a birthday (August 20) with Slobodan Milosevic, rivalled only by my mother's sharing a birthday (August 31) with the emperors Caligula and Commodus.
That's a great day.
1810 Phineas Barnum
How many suckers were born on that day?
My Birthday (October 25) has the following events (as copied from Wikipedia):
Events
1415 - The army of Henry V of England defeats the French army at the Battle of Agincourt
1662 - King Charles II of England sells Dunkirk to France
1760 - George III becomes King of Great Britain
1828 - St Katharine Docks opened in London
1854 - Battle of Balaklava during the Crimean War (Charge of the Light Brigade)
1900 - United Kingdom annexes the Transvaal
1903 - United States Senate begins investigating the Teapot Dome Scandal THIS WAS LISTED ON THE PAGE BUT IS WRONG.
1924 - First appearance of Little Orphan Annie
1936 - Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini create the Rome-Berlin Axis
1944 - Japan launches first kamikaze attacks, during the Battle of Leyte Gulf
1945 - Japan surrenders Taiwan to the Republic of China
1962 - Cuban missile crisis: Adlai Stevenson shows photos at the UN proving Russian missiles are installed in Cuba
1971 - United Nations seats the People's Republic of China and expels the Republic of China (see China and the United Nations)
1983 - United States invades Grenada
1986 - The New York Mets defeat the Boston Red Sox in game 6 of the World Series and go on to win the championship two days later.
1991 - Steely Dan reunites.
2001 - Microsoft Windows XP released
Births
1811 - Evariste Galois, mathematician (d. 1832)
1825 - Johann Strauss II, composer (d. 1899)
1838 - Georges Bizet, composer (d. 1875)
1864 - Alexander Tikhonovich Grechaninov, composer (d. 1956)
1881 - Pablo Picasso, painter, sculptor (d. 1973)
1888 - Richard E. Byrd, explorer (d. 1957)
1889 - Abel Gance, film writer (d. 1981)
1892 - Leo G. Carroll, actor (d. 1972)
1895 - Levi Eshkol, Prime Minister of Israel (d. 1969)
1902 - Eddie Lang, jazz musician (d. 1933)
1912 - Minnie Pearl, comedian, singer (d.1996)
1924 - Billy Barty, actor (d. 2000)
1927 - Barbara Cook, singer, actress
1928 - Marion Ross, actress
1933 - Jack Haley Jr., film producer, director (d. 2001)
1935 - Russell Schweickart, astronaut
1940 - Bobby Knight, basketball coach
1941 - Anne Tyler, novelist
1942 - Helen Reddy, singer
1944 - Jon Anderson, singer (Yes)
1944 - James Carville, Jr., political operative
1948 - Glenn Tipton, guitarist
1948 - Dan Gable, amateur wrestling champion, coach
1949 - Brian Kerwin, actor
1951 - Richard Lloyd, musician
1954 - Mike Eruzione, captain of the 1980 United States Olympic gold medal-winning ice hockey team
1956 - Mathias Jabs, guitarist
1963 - Tracy Nelson, actress
1971 - Pedro Martínez, baseball pitcher, three-time Cy Young Award winner
1971 - Midori, violinist
Deaths
625 - Pope Boniface V
1400 - Geoffrey Chaucer, poet
1495 - king John II of Portugal
1895 - Charles Hallé, pianist and conductor
1910 - Willie_Anderson, golfer
1921 - Bat Masterson, journalist, lawman
1953 - Holger Pedersen, linguist
1957 - Lord Dunsany, writer
1974 - Nick Drake, musician
1986 - Forrest Tucker, actor
1992 - Roger Miller, musician, composer
1993 - Vincent Price, actor
1995 - Bobby Riggs, tennis player
1999 - Payne Stewart, golfer
2002 - Paul Wellstone, U.S. Senator: A Democrat from Minnesota
2002 - Richard Harris, actor
How many suckers were born on that day?
I thought Gromyko was the worst...
On second thoughts, your coincidence with:
1838 - Georges Bizet, composer (d. 1875)
and:
1881 - Pablo Picasso, painter, sculptor (d. 1973)
seems slightly more nutty... along wiht the following silly decisions:
1760 - George III becomes King of Great Britain
1900 - United Kingdom annexes the Transvaal
April 20 is the 110th day of the year in the Gregorian calendar (111th in leap years). There are 255 days remaining.
Events
1653 - Oliver Cromwell disbands Parliament.
1657 - Jews of New Amsterdam (later New York City) granted freedom of religion.
1689 - The former King James II of England, now deposed, lays siege to Derry
1775 - American Revolutionary War: British troops begin siege of Boston, Massachusetts
1792 - France declares war on Austria
1861 - American Civil War: Robert E. Lee resigns his commission in the United States Army in order to command the forces of the state of Virginia
1862 - The first pasteurization test completed by Louis Pasteur and Claude Bernard
1902 - Pierre and Marie Curie refine radium chloride (not fully purified to the isolated element). They thought they had isolated it.
1914 - Ludlow Massacre of striking Colorado coal miners
1926 - Western Electric and Warner Bros. announce Vitaphone, a process to add sound to film
1967 - A Swiss Britannia turboprop crashes at Nicosia, Cyprus killing 126
1968 - A South African Airways Boeing 707 crashes during takeoff at Windhoek, South-West Africa killing 122
1968 - The Liberal Party of Canada led by Pierre Trudeau wins the Canadian Federal Election
1968 - English politician Enoch Powell makes controversial Rivers of Blood Speech
1968 - The rock group Deep Purple gives their first concert in Denmark
1972 - Apollo 16 lands on the Moon
1991 - An all-star concert in memory of Queen frontman Freddie Mercury is held at Wembley Stadium in London
1997 - The San Diego Padres face the St. Louis Cardinals in the first Major League Baseball game ever played in Hawaii
1998 - An Air France Boeing 727-200 crashes into mountain after takeoff from Bogota, Colombia killing 53
1999 - Columbine High School massacre: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold open fire in their high school leaving 15 dead and 23 wounded
2001 - The anti-globalization movement holds a People's Summit and large protest marches, some of which are forcibly put down by police, against the FTAA summit in Quebec City, Quebec
Births
571 - Muhammad (P.B.U.H) (Probably) (d. 634)
702 - Jafar Sadiq, Muslim scholar (d. 765)
1808 - Emperor Napoleon III of France (d. 1873)
1818 - Heinrich Goebel, inventor (d. 1893)
1832 - Ernst von Leyden, physician (d. 1910)
1845 - Philippe Pinel, physician (d. 1826)
1871 - Slavoljub Eduard Penkala, Croatian inventor, (d. 1922)
1879 - Paul Poiret, French couturier (d. 1944)
1889 - Albert Jean Amateau, businessman and social activist (d. 1996)
1889 - Adolf Hitler, German (Austrian-born) dictator, "Führer" and Reichskanzler (d. 1945)
1893 - Joan Miró, painter (d. 1983)
1893 - Harold Lloyd, actor (d. 1971)
1895 - Emile Christian, jazz musician (d. 1973)
1900 - Fred Raymond, composer (d. 1954)
1908 - Lionel Hampton, musician (d. 2002)
1915 - Joseph Wolpe, psychotherapist (d. 1997)
1916 - Karen Elisabeth Olsen Denchfield, wife & mother. Daughter of Denmark. Born in Jutland of Carl Christian Olsens (friends of King Christian X), who all emigrated to Sao Paulo, Brazil in 1933. (d. April 18, 2002 in South Florida)
1920 - John Paul Stevens, associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States
1923 - Rita Frances Rizzo, in Canton, Ohio. She became Mother Angelica, Foundress of Eternal Word Television Network, a Global Catholic TV enterprise
1925 - Tito Puente, musician (d. 2000)
1928 - Gerald S. Hawkins, astronomer (d. 2003)
1939 - Gro Harlem Brundtland, former Prime Minister of Norway
1939 - Peter S. Beagle, author
1940 - George Takei, actor, Star Trek
1941 - Ryan O'Neal, actor
1943 - Edie Sedgwick, actress (d. 1971)
1949 - Jessica Lange, actress
1951 - Luther Vandross, singer
1964 - Crispin Glover, actor
1964 - Rosalynn Sumners, figure skater
1964 - Andy Serkis, actor
1972 - Hank The Angry Drunken Dwarf, radio and television personality (d. 2001)
1976 - Joey Lawrence, actor
Deaths
1314 - Pope Clement V (b. 1264)
1769 - Pontiac, Chief of the Ottawa tribe (b. ~ 1720)
1912 - Bram Stoker, author (b. 1847)
1932 - Giuseppe Peano, mathematician (b. 1858)
1947 - King Christian X of Denmark (b. 1870)
1992 - Benny Hill, comedian (b. 1924)
1999 - Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacre. Also killed: Cassie Bernall, Steven Curnow, Corey DePooter, Kelly Fleming, Matthew Ketcher, Daniel Mauser, Daniel Rohrbough, Dave Sanders (teacher), Rachel Scott, Isaiah Shoels, John Tomlin, Lauren Townsend, Kyle Velasquez
Holidays and observances
In Canada and the United States, April 20th is a ceremonial day to "smoke out" (smoke marijuana). See: 420 (drug culture)
1992, 2003, 2014 - Easter
Good, I'll send Rumsfeld a card and a carton of cigarettes.
Your pal,
Fred
Hmmm...maybe only certain people will know, especially people in high school or college....
Fraank Sinatra's Birthday?
Your glowing pal,
Fred
Well, apparently that was wrong, it had nothing to do with Jews, but apparently the answer was something that is celebrated in New Amsterdam everyday.
so, nimby, you celebrate yet?
If you want credit for getting the question right, go ahead. ;)
Whenever people post during the holiday season, happy holidays, you don't snap on them.
Sorry bout that. Hmph...I don't even use the stuff.
Your pal,
Fred
That's one hell of a "REEFER" there ;)
Amanda, Mr_Brian, and anyone else who got it eventually, congradulations.
All of you get canned soup autographed by yours truely, lol.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/nyc-crash0421,0,4668167.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlines
Article says Amtrak engineer failed to control his train and allow for safe stopping distance.
CG
I mean, how did the AMTK engineer know that the LIRR train was stopping or slowing.
: )-
Elias
While I'm normally more sympathetic towards motorpeople and engineers than most - sometimes irrationall so, quite apparently this one screwed the pooch in my book. :(
So having been there myself, I tend to also err on the side of the "operator" when things go awry - in MY case, the problem was a faulty float valve in my brakestand, but I was STILL fired ... and TWU didn't say boo. I was a probie at the time and got my comeuppance.
Still, the operative reality is "prepared to stop with 1/2 the range of vision" for the signal in question, and barring brake failure (a reality I *still* hold out as the *ONLY* potential defense) I *am* aware of the physics of a whole train and a locomotive. You have to err on the side of caution and EXPECT that the train ahead might have to come to a full stop without warning to you. That's the reason for my "screw the pooch" comment. If I had a nickel for every time I keyed by at 7th Avenue on the D, headed to 59th and rounded the curve KNOWING there'd be a stopped train there, I'd have a lot of nickels.
BLE is right to raise hell ... until it has been determined that there were no equipment problems, the judgement is premature. Even on MY part. My own situation came without warning - everything was working properly apparently until the last moment. However in MY case, they KNEW it was a bad order train that had been removed from service - they just didn't tell *ME*. I thought it was a routine layup and in fact, that's what I had been TOLD. :(
When NTSB investigates however, I have faith in their scientific nature. NTSB investigated mine and determined that it was not my fault. However, I wasn't offered my job back a year later. So yeah, I'm aware of the various angles. On an UPGRADE such as that where this incident occurred, one has an additional advantage, even in the face of bad equipment ... gravity. However I don't know what the visibility equation was there. That's where the "prepared to stop with 1/2 the range of vision" becomes the critical factor. In my own situation, I could see clear to the end of the yard. But if you pull, and nothing happens, and you don't have gravity in your favor, the pooch gets screwed nonetheless. And in railroading if you're anywhere NEAR a wreck, or saw it from the front window of the diner across the street, the wreck was YOUR fault. And so it goes in railroading.
Working the splits though had eaten me up, my former status as "child foamer" had long been cured and I *hated* my job. If you remember the "Stillwell boys" back in 1970-71 then you know what I mean. :)
The thought of being "forced back in" and then subjected to "extra-extra, read all about it on the BBoard" was not something I'd look forward to. So I had some "party time" and got a much better gig full time in radio a few weeks later. I realized quickly that I really wasn't cut out to retire from that place anyway and the two RT's on the D plus WAA had already gotten to me. Thus I suspect even if I *had* the stones, I probably would have just considered it the "blessing" that it all turned out to be in retrospect. Doubly so given where the MTA and TWU went from THERE. I'm MUCH better now. =)
Come on - It's stop within 1/2 sight distance, not 1/2 sight distance unless your train's really heavy or it's raining outside. For what the guy's paid, it's not unreasonable to expect that extra brain cell to kick in if the rails are slippery or the train's heavy and say "Pssst!!!! Stopping distances are gonna be longer than normal!!!"
AEM7
BTW: Newsday, with the likes of Breslin, Payne, Cocoa and Vitello on staff might not be the most objective source of factual information.
I have to look up "staggered red."
You can...
-Add a Marker Light
-Add a Numberplate
-Add a (P), (R) or (G) plate
-Horrizontally offset multiple lamps.
That appears to be the method used with the Penn Station Signals
Looks something like
(*)
..|
..|(*)
..|
or
(*)|
... |
... |(*)
... |
This method was popular back in the day, but is less so now.
Indication is stop and proceed at restricted speed.
First, the Penn Station signals are of a unique kind specially installed by the PRR in 1911. They sort of look like big cast iron keys.
Second, Penn Station is so complicated that Amtrak has labeled all of them with numberplates that states their lever number so that trains don't get lost. They have a bulitin order that states that for all signals in Penn Station a number plate does not mean STOP and PROCEED.
Last, the best way available to them to make the intermediate signals in the tunnel permissive was to keep the old staggered system, despite it's current unpopularity.
Here is a picture of an original 1911 Penn Station signal.
As for the signals within Penn, there is a Special Instruction (277-T2 )covering non-conforming aspects, not a Bulletin Order. It only covers interlocking signals, not the two autos on 1X and 2X tracks.
Anyone whose physical characteristics are even remotely current (mine lapsed 3 yrs now) can tell the difference between a permissive automatic signal with a number plate (such as 2E07, the last sig the ATK passed before the hard couple) and an absolute Penn interlocking sig ( such as 508W, JO's home sig in Line 2) which the Ronky job was overhanging.
Finally, I don't know about a 'P' marker, but a 'G' or 'R' does not make a 'STOP' permissive: it makes a STOP and PROCEED into a RESTRICTING.
The 'P' boards are popular in Europe where internediates are not normally numbered, but I have seen some instances over here.
If they're really running scared, no more partial moves at A-JO-KN-C.
I don't know if this article has already been posted.
NY Times link
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/20/nyregion/20buses.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1082502422-s7dFgcs0nn3g2UrVTqOWbQ
His employer may not want employees to discuss the issue on public forums.
His employer may not want employees to discuss the issue on public forums.)
Hopefully we'll hear from him after July 1, and hopefully he'll have a new employer rather than none at all.
(I've been through "agency swaps" before)
"Lineside graffiti is a common sight on most routes into London. In New York, by removing graffiti instantly from the lineside, it deprived graffiti vandals of seeing their work displayed. This zero tolerance policy has seen the virtual elimination of lineside graffiti on the subway system." HASSARD STACPOOLE
Comments? British and American perspectives?
Some trains still have little bits of graffiti, but nothing like those from the '70s and '80s.
They obviously haven't seen the concrete walls on the Sea Beach and Brighton Lines as of late.
Bill "Newkirk"
Right now the plan is to drive down to Gaithersburg and take the Red Line from Shady Grove to Dupont Circle. What with the new MARC station in Frederick, I'm dying to take MARC to Rockville and transfer to the Red Line there, but that would probably be nothing more than a waste of time. Also, the Georgetown website lists both Rosslyn (Orange/Blue) and Dupont Circle (Red) as being "close" to the college. Which is closer/safer/a better choice in general? Highest priority is given to travel time here.
My friend stayed at a hotel a block from Rosslyn station, and he said that he never once saw any sort of bus.
To DCrazy, the Georgetown bus also stops at Rosslyn, as does the 38B, and Rosslyn is also within walking distance.
Sure that's not Foggy Bottom-GWU you're thinking of?
At least DCrazy isn't trying to get to the National Zoo. That suffix at Woodley Park is fairly misleading.
One of the many anomolies in the system...
See y'all on June 5th----John and I are getting good clues put together, some easy, some not so easy...so be sure to put your thinking caps on...
Mark
As for Georgetown..I'd be more inclined to get off at Rosslyn, the walk across the bridge is a treat in and of itself..
Ben F. Schumin :-)
What most may not know. The escalators in south entrance are not original to when the station opened. That entrance originally had two bronze clad escalators.
Vertical rise north entrance 94’ 5 3/4" 28.79m
Vertical rise south entrance 84’ 9 1/4" 25.83m
A difference of 9’ 8 1/2" 2.95m
John
Drive down 270 South to exit 9. Take 370 towards the Metro Station (that is what the signs should say). Follow 370 to the end and go into the first parking garage (I forget if it is 1 or 2). If you park on the upper most level, you will be able to see Ride-On's Gaithersburg garage and the Shady Grove Yard & Shops. The Red Line trip inbound is very nice, I would ride in the first car. Most of the Red Line trains are operated with Bredas and Rohrs, but CAFs have started to appear on the Red Line, too. The bridge and portal between Grosvenor and Medical Center is one of my favorite parts of the Metro (though I prefer riding it Shady Grove bound) and the two tracks run together in a single tube between Woodley Park and DuPont Circle.
As for getting for Georgetown (you mean you are actually riding the Metro with the intention of getting from point A to point B?), you can go from either Foggy Bottom or DuPont Circle. You can take the Georgetown connection bus from either stop (I believe the fare is discounted with a rail to bus transfer which you must pick up from Shady Grove before boarding the train), take the D2 or G2 MetroBuses from DuPont Circle, the 30, 32, 34, 35, 46, or 38B from Foggy Bottom (they stop around Washington Circle, a very short block away), or walk. Neither walk is considerably long. If you go to Foggy Bottom, you have to change at Metro Center, the archetectural highlight of the entire WMATA system.
If you have more questions, post or e-mail me.
Maybe I can take the Metro for my visit to University of Maryland next Wednesday. Too bad it's on the other side of town; but then again, a transfer would be interesting. :D
Bill "Newkirk"
What is it!
Sorry about the bad picture, apparently they lock the gate!!
Besides, I dind't want to get any closer so I can get another "talking to" today, possibly by the UPS guy in the parking lot.
The absurdity lately is getting insane. I can't cross a street in a mall parkign lot or take a picture of a scrapped bus w/o being "suspecious". Yet before I went digital I have pictures of a million malls and the vegas airport. Maybe i'll get questioned at disney soon.
go figure.
But...i've seen the CSX geometry car in O-town before, whats the deal with this funky looking amfleet control car looking FRA car?
M-14 or maybe it was T-14. was marked on the side of it too.
:)
now the question in curiosity is, what's this one doing here instead of a csx geometry car?
Press up against the fence, set the F stop right, and the fence is gone. I've taken pictures through window screens that you couldn't tell were through window screens. It's fun to make them dissapear :)
Where's the fence?
This one isn't perfect.
Anyway, I checked yesterday and today on the way home, and that T-14 and the really old blue car I saw are both gone. :(
makes me wonder how many random things park in that underused station that I've been missing!!
Bush through windowscreen
"THANKS A 1,007,723,920!" - ATOC CONFIRMS HIGHEST NUMBER OF RAIL PASSENGER JOURNEYS
The Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC), today confirmed its recent forecast that more than one billion passenger journeys would be made on Britain's railway last year - the actual figure was 1,007,723,920 - the highest level since 1961. Passenger kilometres travelled, at 40.1 billion, were also more than in any year since 1947 and represented an increase of nearly 40% since 1994/5. ATOC's own statistics show that the level of passenger journeys is rising by 3% a year confirming that Britain has one of Europe's fastest growing railways. A poster campaign to say: "Thanks a billion!" to passengers for their custom in 2003 was launched after Christmas at stations around the country. (A .pdf file is available on request).
Perhaps ATOC should be more aggressive about this statistic. With fatality per mile statatistics for road versus rail, we can translate this information into numbers of lives saved per year.
How can this statistic be calculated , considering the number of passengers in cars and pedestrians stepping onto roadway, etc.?
(This post is not intended to be anti-rail.)
Tjis topic has been argued before, and the basic gist of it is that it is very difficult to calculate what the safety benefit of rail is since once the rail passenger disembark from the train, they become either a pedestrian endangered by road vehicles, or they become drivers that are endangering other pedestrians and themselves. So it's not clear how you would do the allocation to show the net benefit due to rail use. There is a net benefit; it's just not clear how big.
Remember the statistic that said most accidents occur within 5 miles of the driver's home? Of course that statistic is skewed because most trips also occur within 5 miles of home. But rail use would of course do nothing to curb those trips, except in very large metropolitan areas with a good subway system.
AEM7
The set is 2341-45, in Van Courtlandt Red.
Click on the unrelated R-62a pic to see the video. (Windows Media, 2.2MB)
OMFGCLAMBAKE...
I am WELL AWARE that the pic is of Junction Blvd. I'm not stupid, unlike...never mind.
Point is, you're trying to say the video is at Junction Blvd, which it is not. You know you are, don't deny it. The fact you don't want to watch the video proves that you're a pompous fool, and that your computer might blow up since it can't handle it.
Too lazy? Must be on 56K, huh?
I would assume they took all 5 cars to South Ferry, switched to the inner loop, and run 'em on the Lex now.
I have finally added new sections to my website and here they are:
SIR Annadale
SIR Eltingville
SIR Tottenville
SIR R44s
And of course, a link to my website.
Scroll down for map.
This is my 2nd Edition of my own custom NYC Subway map. The base map was drawn by Mike Calcagno. Some new updates include:
-Airtrain JFK
-Added missing stations on White Plains Rd Line
-Moved B (future) terminal to Brighton Beach
-Redrawn Fulton/B'dwy-Nassau complex
-Fixed up DeKalb (Re-aligned N and R)
-Shows partial (G) service on the Queens Blvd Line
-New message boxes show info, MetroCard Transfers and more
-Nice American Flag and some links (sorry I left out some, but I had no room and thats all I could think of at the time).
-More...
For my next installation, I am going to add PATH, SIR and SI Ferry.
Hope you enjoy my new map.
Click on the map below to enlarge it.
In this post are links to my newest galleries and my updated NYCT map with AIRTrain JFK!
I have finally added new sections to my website and here they are:
SIR Annadale
SIR Eltingville
SIR Tottenville
SIR R44s
And of course, a link to my website.
Scroll down for map.
This is my 2nd Edition of my own custom NYC Subway map. The base map was drawn by Mike Calcagno. Some new updates include:
-Airtrain JFK
-Added missing stations on White Plains Rd Line
-Moved B (future) terminal to Brighton Beach
-Redrawn Fulton/B'dwy-Nassau complex
-Fixed up DeKalb (Re-aligned N and R)
-Shows partial (G) service on the Queens Blvd Line
-New message boxes show info, MetroCard Transfers and more
-Nice American Flag and some links (sorry I left out some, but I had no room and thats all I could think of at the time).
-More...
For my next installation, I am going to add PATH, SIR and SI Ferry.
Hope you enjoy my new map.
Click on the map below to enlarge it.
By Chris Slaight Updated 4/20/04
-Chris
What's with this map helper?
-Alargule
The Map Helper was made by me for use in making maps. Use it in making your own custom NYCT or fantasy maps. They are in the official MTA map colors (extracted from the PDF map) and feature colors, diamonds and squares (terminals). There are currently two editions of my Map Helper. The 1st Edition is for smaller, Mike Calcagno style maps, while the 2nd Edition is larger for bigger maps like mine. Below are the two editions of the map helper. Feel free to use these in all of your maps, but please notify somewhere on the map, my name Chris Slaight.
1st Edition
2nd Edition
Thanks for asking.
-Chris
Looks great! The Fulton Complex is much easier to read now...
One question - the stop on the Brighton is Beverley Rd, and the stop on the Flatbush IRT is Beverly Rd, which looks to be the same road as the stop on the Brighton. Is this correct? My MTA map has the same spelling, so maybe somebody who lives or travels around there would know if the spelling changes from one stop to the other...
1. When you post messages here on SubTalk, and you want to use text centered on the page, don't forget that <center> requires a closing tag (</center>). Without it, all the text and the responses to your messages will look weird and won't be aligned properly.
2. The connection between the (2) line and Metro North is at 233rd Street.
3. The (5) in Brooklyn should be a <5> (diamond 5) instead, as it appears on other maps.
1. When you post messages here on SubTalk, and you want to use text centered on the page, don't forget that <center> requires a closing tag (</center>). Without it, all the text and the responses to your messages will look weird and won't be aligned properly.
1)Yes, I know ALL about closing tags. I was so busy typing and then I posted it w/o the map and I just forgot the closing. Sorry.
2. The connection between the (2) line and Metro North is at 233rd Street.
2)Thanks, that will be fixed in the 3rd Edition. I tried to just put MNR and LIRR at select stops. I will try to put as many of these as I can, or I will probably just make a new symbol to show MNR, LIRR, Amtrak, PATH, etc...
3. The (5) in Brooklyn should be a <5> (diamond 5) instead, as it appears on other maps.
3)Yes I know, but I was not using Mike Calcagno's map, I was using THIS map instead (official) and it has a (5) instead of a <5>.
Thanks for your comments on my subway map. This helps it to be all the more accurate and easy to read.
-Chris
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/21/nyregion/21trains.html
I also don't get what was with this 4 train
Strange things happen I guess...
I think they all do that.
My watch is always set to 24 hour time, although for the convience of my users, my computer network still displays the old 12 hour clock.
They are just going to have to bite the bullet and dump the old clock and join the rest of the world using 24 hour notation.
Elias
Apparently an additional line of code to change 00 hours to 12 AM wasn't added...
"Bond, only Bond"
Da Hui
Don't these images of subway vandalism appear desperately random to you ?
There's enough information here for even Pirmann to figure it out.
Ta,
Hannibal Lecter, M.D.
Listen and decide: What do you prefer more?
It amazes me that you can still mangle a manual announcement on a R142
Also, what gives with saying "One Two Five"? It's apparenly pretty old since I remember when C/R's on the 6 would say it, back when there were R62A's on the line (long ago)
It's all about the syllables, baby!
"One Hun-dred (and) Twen-ty=Fifth Street" (8 if you include the "and")
versus:
"One Two Five" (3)
They both convey the same information (a numbered street spelled 1-2-5). The latter is easier to say (fewer syllables).
I've heard it used on the 7:
"This is Five Two. Manhattan-bound 7, Four Six is next, SCCD."
DC needs to shorten it's station names things like this are unnecessary(although it can be funny to see how many names they try to use for one station).
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/washdc/green/wmata-green-cardozo.html
DT:>> This is Times Square, 42nd Street—Port Authority Bus Terminal—Broadway Theatres—USS Intrepid Sea/Air/Space Museum.
CP:>> Transfer is available to the 1, 7, 9, A, C, E, N, Q, R, and W trains. Transfer is available to the Shuttle to Grand (the train stops) Centr--
[the doors open]
DT:>> This is a Brooklyn-bound 2 Express train. The next stop is 34th Street–Penn Station–Madison Square Garden–US Post Office–Javits Center.
CP:>> SCCDP!
[the doors close]
how about "Next stop Columbus circle fifty-niner, fifty-niner Columbus circle, transfer to da one and niner, stand clear of the closing doors.
Nex'top hun-twun'-fi, stan-clear uh clos'doors...
It doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is the fact that the C/R used a manual announcement to reiterate the automated announcement.
And I prefer a conductor speaking instead of automated announcements. The automated voices would never do this, this or this.
Your pal,
Fred
BTW, I suspect that the new 'user friendly' format they're using can be easily 'infected' by someone who has the knowledge to inflict damage to a website.
Oh yeah, we got a Dell laptop with Blaster pre installed. Even better, the windows reinstall disk has it too, and they won't give us new CDs. Gotta love the computer industry.
You want bizzare? Try a kernal panic in OSX. Everything's fine, then all of the sudden, the screen turns greyscale, and you're told in about 15 languages to reboot. It's happened once (ironically, internet exploder did it) to me. But generally, you just lock up an app and then kill the offending app. Which is weird to have a dead application just there on the screen while everything else just carries on normally. Even more fun is when you crash classic, you get the old Mac bomb screen, but the darn machine is NOT dead, you just need to reboot classic, while everything else runs like nothing's happened.
Hey, for uptime, try VMS. after Uha dumped UCX for multinet, they went from one crash a day to one every year or two...
wayne
IMHO, people crowd the first and last cars of any 4 car G train and one wonders why the other 3 sets of doors should ever be opened in the first place since people at Greenpoint, Nassau, and Metropolitan think there is only one set of doors to use on the train.
As far as the woman, thank goodness she is OK.
Sometimes there is the idea in one's head that "if I take more time to walk to the next car the train will leave without me. On the other hand, if the last car is crowded, maybe I can get to the next car through the vestibules."
I can only judge from what you post. Improve your posting style, and I'll adjust accordingly. If you look back at the archives, you'll see that's what happens.
Ball's in your court, dude.
Go fuck a third rail.
You don't know how trains operate, nor ever bother to do your research before saying this. FACT: On R46 cars that are the sole fleet used on the G line, you CANNOT walk through the vestibules, unlike the false theory you said.
Try not to be so juvenile when you post.
You have about as much chance of seeing this as plaiting piss.
Do you ever walk between cars?
R-110As. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
Using the term "bits and pieces" can have a different meaning when discussing a 12-9 :)
Tree Trunk Impales Skokie-Swift Train Motorman
Passenger Calls For Help On 2-Way Radio
EVANSTON, Ill. -- A CTA motorman survived a bizarre accident Monday morning, when a tree trunk crashed through a window of the Skokie-Swift train shortly after 7 a.m. on Monday morning, according to Newsradio 780.
According to the report, the motorman had to undergo surgery to remove his appendix and repair internal organs, including his liver and kidneys, after the accident.
The tree reportedly rolled down a hill before crashing into the windshield, making a hole "the size of a basketball" before crashing into the driver.
The driver fell to the floor, the train came to a stop, and a female passenger sitting next to him called for help on his two-way radio, the report said.
The motorman was still impaled by part of the tree trunk when he was taken to St. Francis Hospital, in Evanston, according to the report.
According to the radio report, some conductors were teaching passengers how to use their two-way radios on Tuesday morning, in case an emergency occurs in the future.
I don't understand. How would a second crew member have prevented the accident?
If you mean that a second crew member could have gotten medical help more quickly, then it follows that all people driving cars in remote areas must go in convoys of 2 cars, so that the second can help out if the first has an accident.
What's yours? TIA.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowodlawn)
subfan
Te writer of the post came on strong, but the underlying message was quite valid.
The fact that somebody else is proven right does not mean that logic was driving his argument - it was more like dumb luck. There was plenty of racism and blind hatred being voiced.
I'm sorry about that, that was wrong. The word beetle doesn't belong there.
For the most grammatical results, you should omit the "a" as well.
Wait, what gets thrown into the acid - the bitten-off cojones or the rest of him?
:0)
The only thing that is obvious is that without the necessary perspective and maturity, or alternately hobbled by prejudice, you can come to a conclusion very quickly. You can be right without knowing why, and you can be wrong without knowing why. Guess wrong, and create additional victims.
All I know is, it's not possible to be "fair" in every circumstance. If by fair you mean "the greatest good for all parties concerned". Is triage fair? Logic may define a path to follow in this case, but that's little relief to those lowest on the totem pole. True, the definitive rationale of civilization is to fight against the ramifications of this aspect of existence, and that fight should be encouraged, but at its most granular, life is still a long tooth and sharp claw kind of thing. Narrow vision can be a survival technique, like it or not.
So, to many 5 hours afterwards, were the chances of the Oklahoma bombing not being done by Arab terrorists quite low. All the post said was, let's wait to be sure.
Same as some people are saying right now in response to postings suggesting that the Amtrak engineer who crashed into the LIRR train was a jerk.
Some people like to jump to conclusions and are often right. Some don't.
At any rate, I was convinced pretty early on that it was Bin Ladin.
---Andrew
:-o Andrew
BTW, didn't he flame you once? I think that's what you said once...
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Now those posts were gems! ;-D
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=262068
That's irony.
The shutdown of the Talks (we all went to Harry Beck's place for the duration) was due to a flame war/lawsuit threat that was sparked by an E_Dog post that was racial and went nuclear.
Dave banned all three and did not reveal who they were or any specifics when the Talks resumed. I knew E_Dog personally and he told me that he was kicked out.
No E_Dog was not the cause of the talks shutting down for a few months in early 2002. E_Dog's incident with that Astoria El and racism thread did cause the "kicking out" of E_Dog and a few others, but the shut-down was only for a one or two day period.
The "real" hiatus was caused by some "student" asking a terrorist related question that got pushed into a subject of a fine line. I think someone emailed Dave a threat of a lawsuit or something, and everything got blown out of control. I think David was moving at the time, and just didn't have time to deal with nonsense, so the talks went down for a while.
This was the last "normal" post before the shutdown (When I say "normal", I mean that was not part of the post that was of course deleted).
Here's the return....
As you can see, E_Dog was still posting after that long hiatus, his thing wasn't till later. This was E_Dog's last post that wasn't in the deleted Astoria thread.
More like threatened to call the FBI and report this board for unpatriotic and supposedly illegal activites. I beleieve Dave pretty much said he couldn't afford to to support this board if it meant hiring a lawyer to defend himself.
What's interesting about Eric Dale Smith (aka E_DOG) is that he now lives (last time I heard) in Baltimore and joined the Baltimore Streetcar Museum, got qualifed to operate the cars, had three accidents in 8 months, two chargable (his fault) and quit before his first year was up, claiming that BSM was racist, which is not true.
Gosh you guys are a tolerant bunch, surely he'd have been made a token clerk at any other railroad -- like after his first accident?
Was there any damage to equipment?
He came off our #3 track with 1898 Closed Car 1050, managing to put both axles (single truck car) on the ground. It was discovered that the rail was out of gauge (the ties having given up the ghost around 1990, track was laid in 1969) the speed was too much. That was the non-chargable one. The track department spent all of Saturday and Sunday putting 15 new ties in the track.
Three weeks later Smith and his conductor managed to chew up the wheel guard on our car 264. Both were suspended for two weeks and forbidden to work together ever again (both were in the same training class, qualifed a week apart.
#3 was he managed to bang two trolley poles together (two different cars) in a carhouse move. Both cars suffered bent poles. Three week suspension on this one.
We've been calling 1050 our "Handy-Dandy Bad Track Finder", since a month after Eric's untrackment, a motorman with 15 years had one axle walk off #2 track. He was able to "walk" her back onto solid rail, the Track Department put emergency guage rods in the section.
Derailments are few and far between, usually.
That 2002 training class was cursed. Of the three who qualfied, two have left the Transportation Department (But stayed as members) and Eric resigned as noted.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Also, according to a recent article in the New Yorker, the tallest people in the world, with an average height of 6'1" among men.
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
til next time
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Note: Do not respond.
But that is why you do have self-control.
Why would you want to physically hurt someone for expressing his opinion, even if you are convinced it is stupid?
So he is disrespectful to your poetry. Consider it his loss, and move on. You will find that not everyone can or should like everything you do. That's how the world is.
I hope you are having a fun weekend. School's oout in a month or two, right? What are you doing this summer?
When I was in the third and fourth grades I went to summer camp in New Jersey. That was fun.
I'm eligible, but they do names in a probability pool. If my name is one that gets picked, then I gotta do these tests.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Middle school is also very inconsequential.
Middle school is very consequential for Ben, and he should do his best in it.
If Ben were not to be admitted to Bronx Science, his future isn't ruined either. But as long as he has the opportunity, I hope he pays attention in class, gets into the school and does well.
Well, of course, Bx. H.S. of Sci. will help--I hope to become a NYC Subway Car designer. Did you see my Subway car design? The first scan of it is here (last pic). The last three scans are the first three pics on this page.
Like it? :-)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Can you read or write in French? Do either of your parents understand French, or a friend perhaps? If you write to them in both English and French, they would be very impressed. Perhaps you would even get a note back from their design studio.
Try it and see.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn) (who does very well in school!)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
And I was a C student in middle school, who was eligible for the Bronx High School of Science( :-P ) , But didnt go cause Stuy is better :-P
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Shit dude, you must be bored out of your damn mind.
You need some new interests to augment the railfanning.
That's right. IDL tuna.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Don't your eyes get tired ;-). You should NEVER make a comment like that on this board. As I have previously told you take the boards seriously but not too seriously.
You mean, like, his bile duct? Sorta hard getting a grip on that.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
I nominate myself:
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=689289
Tony
wayne
wayne
wayne
It's actually in the 2004-2007 financial plan. To be accurate, I believe it's a rehabilitation, not a reconstruction.
Also, Kowloon, Hong Kong, used to have a neighborhood built on "no man's land" called Kowloon Walled City. (Yeah, I know, this is off topic, but I'm interested.) Seems like the Chinese owned a fort at the Walled City, properly laid out according to Feng Shui, and then the British waltzed in and made annexations and purchases. However, the Walled City still technically belonged to China, with the governor's house and a couple of temples being the centerpiece. The town became a tourist trap for folks wishin' to see "Old China". World War 2 brought Japanese folks, who razed most of the Walled City for a runway. After the war, the "noman's land" status of the Walled City resumed, and a massive influx of immigrants soon came in, due to the Communists' bloody conquest of China. The Walled City only obeyed two laws from any government: "thou shalt not build taller than 15 stories", and "thou shalt run electricity so that the Walled City doesn't burn down". Not surprisingly, the City became a den of vice. Sans planning or zoning, local folks extended their apartments and quickly roofed the narrow streets over (or swallowed them up in piles of trash), and walkways and connections between buildings replaced streets in many parts as thoroughfares. As no vehicles could get through, the Walled City was entirely pedestrian; indeed, it was a labyrinth, with corridors dimmer and narrower than Times Square station's labyrinth. Until it fell to urban renewal in 1993, the Walled City was allegedly the most densely populated neighborhood in the world. (back on topic now) Would you want to put a subway station next to that?
Did you think of maybe searching the SubTalk archives?
Mind?!?!? This is ME you're talking to! I encourage it*!
*as long as you realize you are responding to an old thread. Otherwise it is just really funny.
Oh, wait, according to the Chicago Sun-Times, the incident occurred on Monday morning, one day before the anniversary:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-train21.html
Alan Follett
Hercules, CA
Straight conductors do not have much of a magnetic field. That’s why they wind them into coils to make motors! High tension conductors have even less of a field, since the field is proportional to the current. (The high tension conductors do have an electric field, but that wouldn’t propagate inside a steel car body as it’s a Faraday cage).
Motors do have magnetic fields, but the inverse square law applies: you get more field from a hairdryer. You probably get more field from a door motor than from the locomotive at the front of the train.
And no-one has proven any damage to living tissue, short, long or otherwise from 50/60Hz magnetic fields.
This may have more to do with politics, protesters and the government. The magnetic field is a proxy for an anti-government protest. NIMBYs didn't want the train, perhaps, and are looking for a way to shut down service.
And the coupling of one magnetic dipole to another magnetic dipole drows as the inverse fourth power of distance - that's why refrigerator magnets only work at extremely close range. But any purported deleterious effect involving AC magnetic fields (though as you say there's no evidence for any such thing), would likely result from induced electric fields anyway, so the inverse cube relationship would hold.
To be fair, a long straight conductor (length greater than your distance from it so it "looks long" from your perspective) has a field that only drops as 1/R. This gradually changes over to 1/R^3 as you get far enough away that the whole current loop, including the long straight conductor, starts to look "small." Of course the field around a straight conductor, all else being equal, is typically far smaller than that produced by a coil.
1. What I described above are the so-called "induction fields." In addition to those induction fields, in any system carrying AC current, are "radiation fields" which drop as 1/R. They are, however, typically much smaller in magnitude at low frequencies (and 50/60 Hz certainly qualifies as such) since these represent energy losses along the line, something which in a transmission line (as opposed to an antenna) you're trying to minimize, and will take great pains to design as such.
2. The fields stated in the article are on the order of 400 mGauss. The earth's magnetic field is 500 mGauss, and we have been exposed to that every moment of every day since we were born. Now, things like hairdryers and large motors or generators (at power plants, say) expose those nearby to fields hundreds or even thousands of times larger. So the whole article is bunk for the simple fact that fields of that magnitude or larger surround us every day, so even if it were something that we *knew* to be harmful (such as cosmic rays, decay of naturally occurring radioactive elements, medical and security x-rays, cigarette smoke, etc.), all you're talking about is an incremental increase in that ever-present danger. But nobody's ever proved that 60 Hz electromagnetic fields have any deleterious physiological effect, so it's all moot anyway.
Down with hairdryers and electric blankets I say!
Oh, and lord knows about color televisions!
Have you tried one of the new AC traction subway cars? That should give you a hum that changes in pitch with the speed of the train!
As for airplanes, I believe for historical reasons they use 400Hz AC, which is just slightly lower pitch than A above middle C.
Oh yeah - Koreans? They're NOT on the forefront of research - IIRC, it's a common belief over there that sleeping in a room with an electric fan can be fatal. I'm not kidding. Google for it.
Magnetic fields? More BS from the nimby crowd. There's never been anything near a solid link, and nobody can explain why there'd be one anyway.
Link to article
This is quite interesting.
Longer trains at the cost of decreased frequency.
Increase the length of each train and off-peak headways will be increased accordingly.
Also, notice that the new platforms will be a longer walk from the rest of the station complex. Every shuttle passenger has the option of using the 7, and if the shuttle is made less attractive to use (by increasing headways and by lengthening walks), more passengers will opt for the 7, particularly off-peak.
In other words, as the capacity of the line is increased, its ridership will decrease.
Frequency would be decreased only if the Shuttle is currently "maxed out" on frequency. I do not know if it is or not.
That's the general idea. The TA wants to run two five car shuttle trains. While they're at it, there is one ten car train that could run in two five car units, that can be dedicated to the shuttle. You know, the R-110A's. I hear the TA is evaluating them. It would be a shame to scrap them.
Bill "Newkirk"
Especially those yellow seats.....yuck !
Bill "Newkirk"
Mysore Nagaraja, president of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s Capital Construction Co. and subway chief engineer...
get a butt kicking when he was growing up. That is, if he grew up here. I'm just saying, Mysore can't have been the easiest name for a kid to have to deal with. Yeah yeah, I know, "It's an Asian thing...I (you) wouldn't understand." Still wacked, though.
This is a really cool picture from that article.
This page has photos of various Japanese subway vehicles and commuter trains with thru-runnings into the subway.
It is www.geocities.co.jp/SilkRoad-Oasis/5002/index.html
As as you know from recent posts, I was berserk that the likely solution would be a Tier V and even less competitive compensation for future employees, and another decline in morale, competence, and service.
Well, evidently something a subtle as a lower pension Tier wasn't in-your-face enough for DC37. They have now agreed to fund their raises, in the face of soaring pension costs, by having future employees hired at 15 percent less in salary for the first two years.
This is being portrayed as a the winning part of the package for Mayor Bloomberg. Is he out of his mind? His labor costs go down a couple of percent, but because today's salary pays the rent, the perceived value of a city job goes down 15 percent. And when he can't hire anyone decent, those with seniority will demand another payoff in exchange for screwing the next generation slightly less than is now being agreed. Thus, the deal is both immoral and, from the point of view of everyone but union members with seniority and the union itself, idiotic. Unless the plan is for services to decline so much that everything DC37 does can be privitized and all of its members fired. If they ratify this, they deserve it.
A few words come to mind. For Bloomberg, defeat. For DC37, decertification. And for everyone born before 1955, general strike.
That might be a possibility.
That might be a possibility.)
Here's another one. I hope all those hired after 1995 get together once they become a majority, vote out the union leadership, and negotiate a nice raise for themselves in exchange for eliminating health benefits for retirees. They can put it back in when they are ready to retire themselves.
Two older employees were arguing with me that it's fair and if new employees don't like it they can lump it. When I suggested that it could work in reverse, it shocked them into silence. If that's the way the world is, with fair and unfair having nothing to do with it, then why not?
I always thought it was 1968 or 1969. I was recently told that it was much earlier than that!
"Western Maryland's first SD40s, nos 7470-7474 (delivered in 1966) and 7495 and 7496 ([both delivered in] 1968), wore WM's then-standard black lettering scheme. Five additional SD40s (7445-7449) delivered in June 1969 were the first to wear the red, white and black 'circus' scheme"
I do not know if this means that 7445 was the first locomotive WM receieved with the Circus scheme (perhaps they had an in-house or other model Circus Scheme loco before that), or if this means that 7445 was the first Circus Scheme loco. If it's the latter then the date for the conversion to Circus by the WM would be June or at least the summer of 1969. I'm willing to bet the latter, since it seems to me that new locos often wear the newest scheme, witness ATSF's Yellow Warbonnet and GN's Big Sky Blue, both introduced on new SD45s IIRC, BNSF's Heritage was introduced on new SD75s, and I think Heritage II was introduced on the AC4400CWs that they picked up.
I'm afraid I've never been terribly interested in the WM, so I don't know any more than the article, of which the relavent part is posted above. Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance.
It almost seems that I may be more correct than my friend.
Well, no one has told the bureaucrats it isn't going to happen, that's for sure. Still, I will be dissatisfied if the entire run to 125th isn't funded in this capital plan. That much would satisfy me, and give me hope that the rest will be built later.
...and waiting...
It is a shame that the line will only open to 96th st,insted of 125th. Maybe,because of the fact they need to build the 116th street station in the 70's tunnel,and flying junctions near 123rd for the transitional tunnel under 125thl
From the diagrams in the SDEIS it is very clear that the section from 96th to 125th is extremely complex, despite the fact that two large tunnel sections already exist.
And besides, they have to do it in some kind of order, and the section from 63rd to 96th is the only first phase that makes sense.
>>What's so complex about it? It's simple cut and cover until the curve.<<
It'll actually be deep tunnel boring, I believe, not cut-and-cover, except for the stations.
Look at the published track map (http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/sdeis/fig2-3.pdf), and you'll see that they have to construct yard tracks north of 125th St, and also a complicated inter-modal station at 125th St. It's worth noting that the initial phase does not require construction around any existing stations, aside from 63rd/Lex where the SAS station shell already exists.
Lastly, the existing tunnel section did not assume a station at 116th St, so a significant modification will be required there.
CG
I doubt that there will be a nighttime cutback of one train or the other.
That seems a bit contingent--do you think the interlocking would work on the fly, so that a northbound Q would come into the wall track most of the time but the middle track some of the time, depending on activity on the wall track? Why not just have Qs arrive in the middle and Ts on the wall routinely?
Believe this. According to the New York Times article today, the federal half of East Side Access and just three stations of the Second Avenue Subway would consume $4.9 billion of the $8 billion in federal new starts funds for the next six years. And, there will be no money for the rest of the SAS in this capital plan, which means (unless the $3.8 billion SAS initial segment price tag will cover some construction north of 96th Street) nothing else will be funded until 2010.
Moreover, debt service already consumes 20 percent of the operating budget, thanks to the debt laden 2000-04 MTA capital plan. Remember how the fare was kept down and plunged relative to inflation, how the pension s were underfuned and state and local dollars diverted to other priorities? The state put off the bill to a diminished future which may now arrive.
Obviously, $8 billion in New Starts funding is a pittance -- that's $1.2 billion a year, compared with nearly $100 billion per year in extra health care expenditures and subsidies since Bush came in. But just as obviously, New York isn't getting 62 percent of it. So what goes? Let's say they offered to use the $1 billion already borrowed fo the SAS to keep the fare down for one year and give the TWU some raises. Yeeeessss! says the Strappies, the unions, the pols and everyone moving away!
Not so much. The FEIS is very explicit about how much property will need to be acquired along Second Avenue for the project: an average of eight lots per station. As you know, real estate along the alignment is not exactly a bargain, and it must represent a vast amount of the total budget.
This level of acquisition seemed preposterous to me, so I read all the fine print. There are two reasons the SAS will consume so much more property than its 20th-century predecessors:
1) Station entrances will incorporate elevators and escalators, so they won't fit on the sidewalk except in a few sites where there are plazas or the roadbed can be narrowed (Hanover Sq., for example). Otherwise they will be inside buildings, as at 63-Lex or at the NE corner of 14th and Fourth Ave at Union Sq. Happily easements for many such entrances have been in place, awaiting the line, since the last project was put forward. Even in cases where the entrances would require demolition of the existing structure, you (or the developer of your choice) can build new buildings on top of the entrances. So that's not so bad.
2) This is the kicker: Because of various modern regulations and of the sheer depth of the new line, all stations will require two vent plants, one at either end of the station. These will not be underground; nor can they be at street level. They have to be above pedestrians' heads. So MTA will be building two four-story buildings at every station, which may be able to incorporate retail at ground level but otherwise will be entirely off the market. (They will also serve as emergency exits, and substations, cooling systems, etc., will also be included in their envelopes where needed.) Sensationally expensive, with no way to recoup the investment.
For the complete scoop, see Chapter 2 of the FEIS, pp. 2-21 - 2-23, 'Ancillary facilities.' All the property acquisition/ station placement figures attached to ch. 8 also show proposed sites to acquire by location.
W Bwy
There's no law that says the 50 inbound trains in the peak AM hour have to be split among 4 destinations. They could be split among 5 if NYCT so chose.
They will probably revisit the service pattern once the new line makes it all the way to Hanover Square, though; commuting paths may well have changed by... 2020?
Basically this time I have a Brooklyn IRT extention of the 2 and 5 lines as the 5 runs under Kings Highway and provides connections for the 3 major Brooklyn lines to CI - I figured it would help alleviate the buses and use of the CI station to transfer from one line to another
Also as far as the Bronx - I added the K line to replace the T to Bedford Park and the T to replace the Dyre 5 line so the 5 can run express w/the 2 to Gun Hill Road - now I'm sorry I don't have a line running to Co-op city mainly since I'm unfamiliar w/the area so if anything the D would be extended to service that area as seen on the other fantasy maps
Really time-consuming, but easy-to-use.
And of course a lot of experience...and some drawing-talent ;-)
Btw for the ppl that made that creative extentions to Co-op City and the Queens extentions is it all right if I may add them to my map, I'll give credit for them - thanks
9658
9659
thanks y'all know who u r.
Arthur
And Here
Your pal,
Fred
Arthur Thomas
Manhattan Bound D Train, 59 Street Next
In this car, the world's condensed into 60 feet
All Ethnicities sitting side by side
All Religions standing next to each other
265 Countries Together in 1 subway car
The train rattles and rools
To think, if they can get along on a subway car
Why not in the world?
Flushing Bound 7 Train, Grand Central Next
International Express
How I wish I could take this train
Ending up in Japan, France, Egypt
I'm snapped from day dreaming,
By the homeless couple asking for change,
Followed by people selling drained batteries,
and kids whole stole candy selling them for a dollar,
They say it's to keep them off the streets...
Armed Guards at Grand Central with M16's are the only reminder
That there's a bigger world outside of this subway car...
This subway system...
Though I wish at times the world of the subway
Was the real world, just a few minor changes
Then we'd all get along
C.J. Rivera
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
A very poor choice of words these days - especially when talking about trains.
-Ben Diamond (a.k.a. 4traintowoodlawn)
Thanks in advance.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
You, of ALL people, should AT LEAST know what time a FUN PASS expires! But you don't! Amazing!
what you should know but don't
Has anyone else tried to use a Fun Pass between Midnight and 3 AM on the day after first use?
I hope he got at least some of his money back because it is supposed to work until 3:00 AM.
Perhaps someone can tell you where to check your routes on the day before you start.
If she agrees, the conditions are simple, NO CAMERAS ALLOWED ON HAND. This means that all cameras should be placed away in bags and not in plain sight of anyone for any reason. Anyone caught with a camera IN HAND not inside bags will be asked to leave, and will be barred from attending any future tours. My cell phone has a camera so I must keep if off and whoever calls me, TOUGH LUCK, they will get my voicemail. The tours will be conducted and stops planned by Peggy, and as before, you can leave the tour on your wish at anytime. After the tour (or if you wish to leave before the conclusion of such.), you are more than welcome to take pictures on your own time so as long as the tour is not on the same station/complex as you are photographing. Since Peggy is not around, she will not know what you did, and will not really bother or care about your actions. Be warned, if you are stopped by Police for the photography, you are on your own and risk.
If she agrees, then we I will post the good news along with a short list of lines and areas we can tour. Remember this is a PHOTO-FREE TOUR NOT A CHINESE STYLE TOUR.
I cast my first vote by saying YES! How about you? This poll closes at 1 PM tommorrow.
Peace,
ANDEE
Probably not.
And for me to discuss with Peggy in convincing her, please tell us what one important quality item that makes Peggy's tours so special.
They are special because Wayne attends them.
Since Peggy is not around, she will not know what you did, and will not really bother or care about your actions.
Why should she care? Photography is legal.
Be warned, if you are stopped by Police for the photography, you are on your own and risk.
Why the warning? What risk? PHOTOGRAPHY IS LEGAL.
Why should tours have no photos allowed?
Can you support Peggy financially, if she loses here job with NYCT because she was in defiance with an directive from 370 Jay Street? This is a directive that she has to follow regarding photography, if she was her own boss and did not have to follow the rules, I'm sure she won't mind the tourists clicking away.
AFAIK, the directive you are describing says that employees should report suspicious activity (of which photography is listed as an example) to the proper authorities. Since Peggy knows that the photographers in her tour group are railfans:
1) their activity is not suspicious
2) she doesn't have to report them
3) she is not in violation of the directive
4) she will not lose her job
But in the rare instance (I say rare) that something happened at 125th Street, a bomb went off, and the day before the incident it was reported by a spy in the media that a "bunch of railfans led be what appears to be an NYCT employee in Station Agent uniform, were taking pictures on the same exact location as where the epicenter of the bomb exploded.". This gets on the papers, what will Peggy, you, me and anyone will say?
This is reality, not paranoria. Want paranoria? Go see a Subtalker who lives outside Westbury station, and calls a class of people "gangstas" and "thugs".
We would all be interviewed by the police and then released once they sufficiently felt that we were not involved. An inconvenience, yes, but certainly worth it in exchange for being allowed to take photos in the NYC Subway system.
How so?