First off, I want to thank all of you that sent me information as to how
the term snakes came about for Switchmen. For those that don't know, their
union, SUNA used a very large S as part of their logo and it resembled a
snake. Although I have known a few over the years that really were on the
lowlife side but that is another story. The term grew from that logo. As
the great Paul Harvey would say, "And now you know the rest of the story."
Another item of note. We have been discussing the possibility of turning
the manuscript I have of HTOTHI columns into book for quite some time now.
We had one publisher interested but they dropped the project when they
changed senior managers. Another publisher I approached read several
chapters and passed on the idea. A third has still yet to respond and I
sent him several chapters way back in the summer. Recently I was given a
lead to a publisher by one of my subscribers. I have been in contact with
this publisher and we are working on a possibility of something happening
here. They did want me to ask what you the readership of this column would
be willing to bear for a price. We all know finances are tight for many
folks right now and don't wish to create a product that most of you cannot
afford.
So here is my question to all of you; would you be willing to shell out
around $35 for such a book? As of this moment I don't know if we would be
doing a hard or soft bound book, but we are trying to look at the potential
market. This may be the biggest part of assembling a final product. The
plan would be to include some photos, but it would not be a photo book.
Just several photos to accompany and support some of the text. Right now we
have some 211 pages of text, but that will likely be reduced somewhat
before we come up with a final draft for publication.
So now as if I don't have enough on my plate to keep my occupied for the
next hundred years, I'll be looking forward to your responses on this idea.
Please do me a favor though, when you respond, send the responses directly
to me. Don't respond to a discussion list. You can send your thoughts
directly to me at thetuch7@earthlink.net .
Thanks for your continued support.
Tuch
--- Joseph Santucci
--- thetuch7@earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
1) They have to collect fares (tickets or cash) from passengers FACE TO FACE. They have to keep their cash and ticket stock in good order, and remit any cash collected in a timely fasion.
2) They have to throw switches and derails when going in and out of a yard , and they have to apply a minimum of 2 handbrakes (and also chocks, depending on location) when changing ends or tying a train down.
3) They have to perform a brake test each time the engineer changes ends. To do this, the trainman has to either stand on the ground and look at the brake pads, or look at the gauges in the cab car or on the engine.
4) The conductor must be qualified on the physical characteristics of the railroad he/she is operating on. The main reason for this is in case a reverse move has to be made without the engineer having to change ends.
5) They have to "set up" the train whenever given different equipment. That entails making sure all of the doors, traps, lights, public address system, and bathrooms are in working order. Any defects must be reported on a special form.
6) In addition to all of the above, they still have to make announcements, and open and close the doors.
I hope that answers your question. I believe I had alreay mentioned something like this a while back when somebody brought up a similar question.
Engineers get paid more than transit T/O's because they need to be Federally certified and their jobs require a much higher minimum skill level.
Historically, decades ago, minorities had difficulty being hired anywhere in what today makes up MTA. Did the city transit organizations integrate faster than the suburban commuter railroads?
Regards,
Jimmy
why do MNRR, LIRR AND PATH workers make more than NYCT? simple
MNRR, LIRR AND PATH ARE RAILROADS
NYCT IS A RAILROAD AS WELL, BUT ITS UNDERGROUND WITH LOWER SPEED.
MNRR, LIRR, PATH MUST COMPLY WITH FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION REQUIREMENTS
NYCT DOES NOT
MNRR, PATH, AND LIRR Engineers, conductors and other related railroad crafts, require more responsibility and accountability because Railroad Trains go at higher speeds.
also the type of signalling makes MNRR, PATH AND LIRR RAILROADS. look at the signals of all 3, and look at the subway style signalling.
one interesting point tho, BOTH NYCT AND PATH WEAR UNIFORMS. MNRR AND LIRR ENGINEERS DO NOT WEAR UNIFORMS.
one last point. look at the maximum speeds in these railroads and the subway and look at the difference.
LIRR 80
MNRR 95
PATH 75
NYCT subway, i havent seen anything better than 52.
Having said that, I looked into employment at both LIRR and NYCTA over the years. You have to deal with more service intensity on the subway, but the LIRR is an old-fashioned railroad in its work rules and employee relations. Because of FRA and the way LIRR service is structured, you have to qualify every three years ON THE ENTIRE RAILROAD--you'd better know how many tracks and where and what kind the switches are in Skunkhaven Yard even if you never make the run. I know for a railfan that would be called "fun," but not for most people.
If you're sick, you have to show for work anyway and then go out sick--no calling in from Shea Stadium. A good excuse for not showing is that you're in a hospital bed with a priest reading you your last rites.
If the railroad tells you your crew has to take out another run, you have to take out another run. Violate either of the above examples, it's a "break in service." Get either three or five of these in a year (forget which) and you're FIRED. LIRR is not civil service.
How long to move up the pick list on the subway? On the LIRR, try 15 to 20 to get the terminal you want or a half-decent run.
I think it might be a good thing to tighten up the TA and pay more. For one thing, the Union Square Wreck would never have happened.
That's not the point. You have to show up to go out sick, then you'll be replaced. You can't call in sick.
When SEPTA decided 20 years ago that train crews were the same as bus drivers and trolley operators, I frequently heard on the Shadow Traffic report that the first Regional Rail train in from Norristown had been annulled because the engineer or conductor had called in sick.
one interesting point tho, BOTH NYCT AND PATH WEAR UNIFORMS. MNRR AND LIRR ENGINEERS DO NOT WEAR UNIFORMS.
PATH signals are similar to NYC subway signals, being color-coded instead of positional. There are a number of differences, however; mainly in the signaling of diverging routes and the numbering of signals. I can go into this in more detail if anyone cares.
I don't believe a uniform is required of PATH Engineers, as long as what they're wearing meets the safety requirements. I have noticed more PATH-logo clothes on engineers in recent years, but I don't think it is a requirement. Conductors have a uniform as that is a customer service position (and they're in the car for all to see, unlike the TA). But they seem to have a choice of uniforms.
Looks pretty much like it did last Wednesday afternoon.
I got some good photos of Sunday's activity. I started at the Wheatsheaf Lane foot bridge, just east of Frankford Jct in Philly, just in time to catch doubleheaded train 152. I saw from the bridge that people were at the site of the former Frankford Jct station, so I joined them. Turns out we had met there 3 years ago.
Amtrak Holiday Extras that we photographed included two Arrow III trains, train 3043 and train 3095, and a train of MARC equipment, Amtrak train #3074.
I uploaded to Webshots all the Acela Express motors, all the HHP-8's and long distance trains that I photographed, beginning with the last five on this Webshots page and all of page 3.
Thanks to the heads-up info from Mike Brotzman, I headed out to the Main Line to photograph Amtrak Keystone Service train #612, with SEPTA AEM7 #2304 and six SEPTA Bombardier coaches.
Maybe the timestamps of your photos can help me identify the trains in my video. I caught a lot of Arrow sets not stopping at Rahway, some of which had to be AMTRAK trains.
Peace,
ANDEE
-- Ed Sachs
However, as far as I remember the Standards never operated on an IND route other than Queens Boulevard.
Is it a coincidence that it was first proposed the year after the completion of the Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown line?
Is it a coincidence that it was first proposed the year after the completion of the Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown line?
Passenger Dragged a Few Feet
I've seen enough people put their foot on their door, in hopes of the C/R re-opening the doors.
OTOH: The C/R failed procedure by not seeing the doors, UNLESS there was a problem with the indicator light.
Some people need to work Sundays, you know... Not to mention family requirements, and catching intercity means of transportation.
There's nothing unusual about being in 'such a hurry' on a Sunday.
People risk their lives every second of every day. It's not in contention that taking stupid risks is stupid.
The assertion that people have no reason to be in a hurry on Sundays is a serpate issue and is just flat out wrong.
Now a question for you. How much of a hurry should a person be brfore they risk their life on the subway?
Now for your last question. If you were going to Howard Beach-JFK on the A line, would you want to wait 20 minutes for the next train?
Personally, it's not the end of the world if you have to wait another 5-10 minutes. But if you have to wait 20 minutes (or sometimes more - the Far Rock A at about 11 to midnight is 30 minutes and the M during Williamsburg Bridge construction was 24 minutes) it's worth it if you can get part of your body in the door, PROPERLY. But don't go sticking your foot through the door and let the doors close on your leg. That is NOT a good idea.
Elias
R-32.
Seeing as the risk of draggings hasn't prevented the deployment of unattended ATO subways it's unlikely to be much of an obstacle to the deployment of OPTO. OPTO is so much cheaper that very little will stand in its way.
R-32.
Onions.
There is nothing stronger than Onions!
Onions defy all common cents.
Elais
How can it tell which people are stupid and which ones are not?
Not that it matters, since the R-62A's have similar door sensors.
So much for relying on the sensors.
Of course no matter which fleet of train youre going on, its never a good idea to put your body into the path of closing train doors. ESPECIALLY with children.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
It takes so long to unload the center cars that the C/O seems to get bored and close the door on boarding geese on the Flushing line. I've had this happen twice now, and I'm tempted to let myself get dragged just to put the C/O through the drug test as a punishment. I'm not going to shove disembarking passengers to the ground just because a lazy C/O won't let me board, when I'm standing right at the doors.
They report that it happened at Union Square on a northbound #5 train. There's quite a difference between 7th Ave & 14th and the Union Square IRT platforms. Then I remembered that the #5's were running on 7th Avenue yesterday.
But Union Square platform raises interesting questions. Due to its highly curved shape, are there any special procedures for closing up and watching the train as it pulls out. I realize that there are cameras there, but I wonder how much a conductor can see once the train leaves the station?
I note that the crew got a drug test, did anyone test the WOMAN?
And another interesting question - the redbirds were removed from service because of "dragging incidents" and the "new tech" was supposed to eliminate that ... to paraphrase, the doors are supposed to be SO sensitive that if a penny was stuck in there, you wouldn't get indication. I find this ... troubling ...
To quote Rene Descartes LAST WORDS: "I think not."
: ) Elias
She deserved every inch of that drag for her stupidity.
VC Madman
The artist was Woody Jones from Mechanical Amusements based in Georgia. The MTA commissioned the model.
Grand Central Model
1. There was a fleet switch on the Q and W lines, many R68A trainsets showed up on the Q while R68's roamed the W. Still some R68's on the Q, but not much.
2. The 6 was running express S/B from 42nd St/GC to BB and the 7 line was not running west of QbP. But try telling that to some C/R's on the lettered lines when making announcements, typical as usual. Don't they have the list of G.O.'s on them when they are on duty?
3. Announcment on the Lexington line: "...there is no #7 train service at Grand Central. For 7 train service transfer at 59th st for the N or W train to Queensboro Plaza, or trasfer at 51st Street to the E and V trains...". Someone needs to read a subway map.
4. Signs at 125th st/Lexington Ave finally corrected, on the downtown local side, the "late nights, 4 train stops here" is covered. Man this confused people since the signs say the #4 train uses BOTH sides at night.
5. Interesting announcement on a S/B #4 train, C/R did let us know that the #7 was not running but told customers that to get to the #7 in Queens, take the shuttle to Times Square and walk through passageway to the E at 42nd/PA and take E to Roosevelt. HUH?? Can you take the #6 to 51st St and save all this trouble walking?
National ERA has a Web site too
-- Two days of full fan trip coverage of the MUNI streetcar system using various PCC's, the "Boat", a Milan Peter Witt, and Muni 130
-- One day bus trip to San Jose to ride/tour the light rail there (which I missed because I was dumb and screwed up the departure time)
-- One day bus trip to Rio Vista railway museum
The only thing we didn't fan trip (officially) or have any sort of tour was BART, but maybe this time will include it. I ended up staying out there 9 days (if you haven't been to SF you will want to extend your stay, if you are thinking of going).
I enjoyed BART too. I only rode one line, the line to Richmond, where there is also an AMtrack station. It feels kinda like a cross between subway and commuter rail.
Is this true? if not does anyone have the story behind it?
Secondly, they are building like crazy in the area. On the Ave X bound side, Smith 9th Station, looks like a Gigantic "Loews" is being built. (probably to knock out the Hamilton Ave Home Depot and honestly in my opinion well deserved)
Has there ever been any talk of changing 4th Ave Station for both local and express service? with all this building lately, has the topic come up in the MTA?
At one point wasnt there even talk of tearing down that overpass and submerging that section of the F line?
Actually I believe it's a "Lowes" that is being built at that location.
I thought it was the name of a hairpin bend on the Monte Carlo Grand Prix.
When watching the Grand Prix of Monaco earlier this year, I kept thinking of the hardware store. Oddly, when I saw mention of "Loews" here, I thought of the movie theater...
I always thought the IND designers were being generous at 4th Ave & 9th St. Especially when you consider the lack of any transfer between Atlantic/Pacific & Fulton/Lafayette or between Jay St & Lawrence St.
I don't mind that they're both local stops. It preserves the nice long run between 36th St and Pacific St on the BMT. And a good amount of space between 7th Ave and Bergen St (if ever they bring back the Culver express service).
Besides the MTA put at free transfer between Jay St & Lawrence St into the Capital Plan. That way folks on the 4th Ave express and the (possible) Culver express can all have a convenient transfer. Which is why I doubt the MTA will ever bother to spend the mega-bucks to make either 4th Ave or 9th St an express stop.
Secondly, they are building like crazy in the area.
With Park Slope becoming what it is, I hope the MTA will want to polish up the 4th Ave station, remove all the paint covered windows, install some plexiglass (or reasonable facsimile) and let the sun shine in. Many folks have described the station house as an art-deco-diamond-in-the-rough just waiting to shine.
When was Lawrence Street added as a station, before or after the IND was built? Remember that Lawrence St was not original to the line, it was built as an afterthought into the tunnel after the line was already up and running.
With Park Slope becoming what it is, I hope the MTA will want to polish up the 4th Ave station, remove all the paint covered windows, install some plexiglass (or reasonable facsimile) and let the sun shine in.
I agree, but I think this is more in line of what they will more than likely do at 4th Ave:
The windows at the Franklin Avenue Shuttle terminal have remained, so far, pristine. But then again I don't see many people loiter anywhere near those windows. They all wait by the platform.
People could watch the traffic go by.
Good point. How about this...the eye-level window panes could be clear and the upper window panes could be stained glass. The waiting commuters' eyes are drawn upwards and voilà! The pièce de résistance of the station.
Have you seen some of those glass stained windows? They are like rocks and extremely durable. At Myrtle-Broadway, they are even right in the signs, and people lean against them with their foot and they are fine:
I guess at 4th Ave they could make some clear glass cutouts to be able to look out too.
Hehehe, yeah the experience of waiting for a train at 4th Ave could be like going to church or synagogue.
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/4thavestation/4Ave.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/01/nyregion/01RENT.html
Metro has thrown down the gauntlet, and what a 21st-century gauntlet it has thrown.
Strapped for cash, our subway moguls are planning to abandon the quiet, calm look of their trains and stations. Here come TV sets inside each car, spewing ads 24/7/365. Here come swoopy, animated commercials along the outside of each previously sleek and simple train. If the Metro board has its way, our subway will soon look as if Disney took it by the throat and said, "Bor-r-r-r-ring."
Of course, boringness was always the whole point. Metro never had the clatter of New York's IRT, the filth of Boston's T or the shuddering 19th-century-ness of Chicago's El. In Washington, the whole experience was supposed to be cathedral-like -- and it has been. If it ain't broke . . .
But the budget is. So Metro is willing to cashier peace and quiet to obtain a few dollars.
To say the least, I'm not happy about this. Neither are thousands of others. If customers abandon Metro because of its new pinball machine look, the system might lose as much in vanished revenue as it gains from squiggly, blaring ads.
Permit me to introduce you to a man who got it about Metro's calm, collected look. Reason: He invented it. His name was Harry Mohr Weese.
Weese was the Chicago architect who took 16 years to design our subway. More than 27 years ago, a young reporter named Bob Levey hopped a plane to Chicago, where he interviewed Weese for The Washington Post on the eve of Metro's first great expansion -- from a downtown lunch-hour toy to a 24-stop, 17-mile system.
"This was the nation's capital, after all," Weese told me. His marching orders were to produce "an imperial subway. We were winning the war in Vietnam, remember? We could have guns and butter."
Weese proposed several design fillips that the Metro board rejected. He asked for backlit lists of stations, rather than Metro's infamously hard-to-read pylons. He also recommended individual reading lights inside cars, similar to those in airliners. Both proposals were shot down for lack of funds.
As for station design, Weese told me that the waffle-grid finish on Metro's vaulted ceilings was a way to achieve "that cathedral-like quality. We wanted it to be dignified and serious. We wanted people to be respectful of their surroundings and of each other."
Re-read those last two sentences. Is there anything in Metro's new advertising plan that you would describe as "dignified," "serious" or "respectful"?
Obviously, much change has come to the original Weese design. Signage is much easier to read. Farecard machines now accept credit cards. Message boards tell you how soon the next train will arrive. In-car announcements can be heard outside cars, too. It's all proof that change can be good, that change is inevitable.
But why is garishness inevitable? To allow TV sets in every car and squiggly, moving ads outside every car would do major violence to Harry Weese's great plan, and to his memory.
text of article from the NY Times.
--Mark
I strongly doubt that any LIRR train will ever see an A/C tunnel. It would be a hugely expensive job that would probably have a negative impact on many more riders than it would help.
I think getting the LIRR to lower Manhattan is a pipe dream today. It did exist once (as a result of the BRT-LIRR track sharing agreement of 1897-1917) but it will never exist again.
LIRR Tunnel on Forgotten NY
LIRR I believe ran it with steam until steam was banned. Horse drawn carriges did the trip I believe, until finally LIRR re-started service, but only to Flatbush Av.
I'd like to see the LIRR extended into Manhattan, connecting with the PATH and various subway lines at the proposed Lower Mahattan transit hub.
Build the new WTC station as a through station, with its East end at Broadway, then a second Downtown Manhattan station with its West end at William St, then continuing a new East River tunnel (aligned roughly Maiden La - Orange St) under Nassau St (Brooklyn), Ashland Pl, then connecting into the LIRR at Flatbush Terminal.
So how about that? Newark to Far Rockaway, Hoboken to Babylon, whatever... What does anyone think?
That wouldn't stop a PATH train running on the LIRR, however, which was what I was suggesting.
If PATH were to go anywhere, I'd connect it somehow with the #6 at Brooklyn Bridge, in effect merging the PATH into the IRT, and connecting two lines that end nearby each other and go in different directions. I can dream!!
:-D "This is Woodhaven Junction. This train is for Howard Beach. The next stop is Howard Beach."
Build the new WTC station as a through station, with its East end at Broadway, then a second Downtown Manhattan station with its West end at William St, then continuing a new East River tunnel (aligned roughly Maiden La - Orange St) under Nassau St (Brooklyn), Ashland Pl, then connecting into the LIRR at Flatbush Terminal.
So how about that? Newark to Far Rockaway, Hoboken to Babylon, whatever... What does anyone think?
1) It will serve a new cooridor
2) It will connect to the air train - that is owned by the Port Authority.
A) it can be advertise as a connecting service for the two airports - Newark and JFK.
However, it is pretty expensive because of the size of the cars and the underwater tunnel needs to be built to connect it to Flatbush. But in comparison to the IND.. I think it's a better choice. It does not duplicate services that is already served by the IND A/C lines. And I like the fact it offers a one seat ride from New Jersey and a greater part of New York City.
I see another downside to the path.. The cars are too small.. It will have to run very frequent to be a very effective service. With all the cost involved, I see a better choice in running the IND - which will mean duplicating servic then extending the PATH. But the cheapest idea will be building a third track on the J/Z lines and run it as a special airport service.
The advantage is the lack of bottlenecks that is more prevalent on the A/C lines.
Just an opinion.
N Bwy
That's the great unknown...
However, it is pretty expensive because of the size of the cars
The width of the cars is not the problem - as long as the train length is the same it's not worth worrying about.
It will have to run very frequent to be a very effective service.
PATH does run very frequently. 40tph in rush hour IINM. That'll really boost ridership.
The way you seet the Montague tunnel.. I see that DITCH of a route you call seabeach.. It offers no view of the neighborhood it travel in.. At least the Brighton Line has a wonderful express service...
Anyway, I don't like you attacking the Montague tunnel.. I actually like it, because when everything else fails... It becomes the only viable alternative...
N Broadway
Ps: Stop picking on the Germans.. because it's turning to something very ugly on another thread.
Hey, but Fred - even if the N train still went across the bridge, wouldn't it have been cross-(platform)-contaminated by now at Pacific St?
Why am I not surprised?
To Be continued!
N Bwy
1. LIRR already goes to Manhattan.
2. It already connects to PATH at 33rd Street.
3. Current Penn destination of LIRR is not much differnt from Atlantic Ave., requiring a subway connection to a lot of destinations. I think making the station more atracctive is all that's needed and it's being done as we speak.
Arti
2. It doesn't connect, the tunnel was closed years ago, but should be re-opened
3. If LIRR went to downtown, it would mean less time for some people, and crowding on subways would decrease
If the Nostrand Avenue stop was removed and LIRR riders were given a free transfer at Jamaica, then...
GP38's "super express" would be an enormous hit with E, J, Z, LIRR, & AirTrain riders at Jamaica as well as A, C, J, L, & Z riders at Broadway Junction headed Downtown Brooklyn and/or Lower Manhattan. Thus reduce congestion on those subway lines.
The Port Authority would love it. It would make the AirTrain more attractive to Brooklynites and Manhattanites because it would be a one-seat ride, that's one to three stops away depending on where to catch it.
The Mayor would love it. It would make Downtown Jamaica, Downtown Brooklyn, and even East New York more attractive real estate for people and businesses thanks to reduced commutes. This would be in line with Bloomberg's plans to decentralize the city away from Manhattan.
Councilmen from Downtown Brooklyn, East New York, and Jamaica would love it. Bruce Ratner would see dollar signs. And Marty Markowitz would burn off 50 pounds doing cartwheels.
It would bypass 121 St to Cypress Hills, but then go local between Crescent Ave and B'way Junction. There would only be a peak direction express to and from the AirTrain terminal. That would be reasonable if JFK has a morning commute and a reverse evening commute. Plus it would bypass Atlantic Terminal.
Yes, it would improve the commute of J & Z riders, and I too support such an improvement, but it could not have the same effect as a dedicated super express.
Nope, it would rise up through the Cypress Hills station, over the Manhattan Bound local track, continue as a one track express over Jamaica Ave and rejoin the locals at Broadway Junction, thus skipping the entire Fulton St part of the J line.
In the past year or so, new outlets of two established businesses (Sleepy's and Mrs. Fields' Cookies) have opened their doors at the building now occupying the space where the downtown hub is supposed to go. These openings occurred after substantial renovation of the existing premises. Are these business going to be thrown out?
I wonder why.. that will provide a shorter transfer to lines enter upper manhattan and Brooklyn.
N Bwy
The total allocated I believe is $2.7 Billion specifically for a new PATH terminal at the World Trade Center site as well as a new Fulton Street Subway Complex, the two transit hubs will be connected by an under ground concourse that stretched from the World Financial Center's Winter Garden, through the World Trade Center Site, then to the Fulton Street station.
The permanant PATH station is going to be designed by Spainish Architecht Santiago Calabvatrava, the MTA has yet to designate who will design the Fulton Street Terminal. However they have pledged to save, restore and somehow incorporate the Singer building into the complex.
The site plan for the World Trade Center is nearly complete, they are to reveil the Memorial plan later this Month. When they announce the selection of the Memorial plan that will be the final step which will then allow rebuilding to go foward.
http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/transportation/default.asp.htm
Way too late for the Singer--that came down in 1967. However the Corbin Building, Bway and John, will be saved. How you incorporate that ornate, rococo building into a modern design? We'll have to see.
www.forgotten-ny.com
One Liberty Plaza is now on its site.
N Bwy
The Federal Government gave all the money upfront for these two transit projects today, it's been paid for in advance.
"December 4, 2003
$2.85 Billion for 3 Transit Sites, With Strings
By DAVID W. DUNLAP
Substituting discreet electronic transfers for the poster-size checks that politicians like to hand out whenever cameras are near, the federal Transportation Department sent New York State $1.15 billion yesterday for two Lower Manhattan projects.
A third grant of $1.7 billion is to follow soon.
Norman Y. Mineta, the transportation secretary, looked empty-handed when he arrived at the World Trade Center PATH Station to announce $2.85 billion in grants. Asked where the money was, he smiled and said, "It's in the mail." To which Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg added, "The federal government doesn't drive up a truck into the back and out pours bills."
No, but it turned out that the Federal Transit Administration electronically transferred $750 million for the new Fulton Street Transit Center a few hours before the announcement. Later, it wired $400 million for renovating the South Ferry subway station. Today or tomorrow, $1.7 billion will arrive to help pay for the permanent PATH terminal being designed by Santiago Calatrava.
In what the federal transit administrator, Jennifer L. Dorn, called a "unique appropriation," the government made the grants immediately for projects that are years from completion.
This does not amount to a windfall; the accounts can be drawn down only on a schedule agreed to by the federal government. But state officials believe that having the grants up front will save time by eliminating the need to keep going back to the government for reimbursement at each phase of the development.
Mr. Mineta called the grants a "down payment" on a commitment of $4.55 billion for transportation projects in the city.
The Fulton Street center, on Broadway, will untangle several subway lines. The South Ferry project will replace a loop track with stub-end platforms. Both are to be finished in 2007. The permanent PATH terminal is to be completed between 2007 and 2009.
In piercing cold, Gov. George E. Pataki and Mr. Bloomberg took Mr. Mineta on a tour of the temporary open-air PATH station, including an emergency exit platform that offers a 360-degree panorama of the surrounding foundations.
"The towers aren't here," the governor could be overheard telling Mr. Mineta as they made their way through the station, "but this is still the site of the World Trade Center."
Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company"
FAO Schwartz used to be a great place to watch model trains in action, but they took down their displays about nine years ago. Anywhere else in the city or LI I could try?
Thanks.
Do they also sell them there?
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
--Mark
www.members.tripod.com/~KnightTime/bayridgemodelrailroadclub.html
We visited 12/27 ($3 adults, $1 kids) and they had the freight trains going, plus MTH cars on the el and the trolley too. Oddest thing - the freight lines have a side 3rd rail but the el has a center 3rd rail (where a side one would be protoypical)!!
To the south of the LIE is the Central Operating Lines. This is another O gauge layout. It is a club. They have open houses with free admission on Dec. 27, 28 and Jan. 24 from noon to 5. Their website can be found at http://www.trainweb.org/centoplines/index.htm
What I usually do is hit the Wrong Island RR then hit the Mickey D's off Hawkins for a Happy Meal & bathroom useage before going to the Central Operating Lines.
- Central Operating Lines = Sat., Dec 27th & Sun., 28th + Sat. Jan 24th
They are in Ronkonoma (631-472-3395) www.Trainweb.org
- TMB Model Train Club (only have a 2002 schedule, but was week-end after Christmas & the one after New Year's). They are in Babylon.
(631-225-0659) www.TMBTrainclub.com
- Town of Freeport Rec, Ctr will probally host a show the week after New Year's
- Northrop-Grumman Model RR Soc had a show in mid-Jan last year
- The West Island Model RR Club had, pastents a open house in Nov.
- Sunrise Train Div had, pastents a show in October
The East Side Access tunnels themselves, 5 in number as they fan out from the existing 41 Av tunnel's lower level, will emerge at the surface within Harold Interlocking.
http://www.parsons.com/about/press_rm/potm/08-2001/index.html
Just to ID the bridges in this picture:
From farthest to closest, crossing the LIRR:
Hunters Point Avenue
Thomson Avenue
Queens Blvd
Honeywell St
39th Street
43rd Street
That last on 43rd Street, however, is not a bridge. The street passes under the LIRR ROW at this point.
It looks like the Sunnyside station will be placed closer to the east side of the Queens Blvd. Bridge, to serve LaGuardia Community College, and that general area.
I found this on CNN.com. Can someone explain what Rumsfeld meant?
LONDON, England (Reuters) -- A comment last year by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on the hunt for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was awarded the "Foot in Mouth" prize Monday by Britain's Plain English Campaign.
Rumsfeld, renowned for his uncompromising tough talking, received the prize for the most baffling comment by a public figure.
"Reports that say something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know," Rumsfeld told a news briefing.
"We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."
John Lister, spokesman for the campaign, which strives to have public information delivered in clear, straightforward English, said: "We think we know what he means. But we don't know if we really know."
Its importance is arguable; its appropriateness on this board isn't.
I still find it incredibly amusing :).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3256884784
As for the Metrocard $399 is not out of the ordinary for a card from the original issue. The NY Times card from about the same time went on ebay for over $800.
The WTC card is scarce enough but considering that this is the Holiday shopping season will anyone want to spend the $399 (or more) now. QWith ebay you never know.
I have the original set in a case, but none of the next six.
I am sure the seller is gambling on that fact.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lidrag1201,0,3226371.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
Gonna be real fun when Englishtown closes....
Meanwhile, elected politicians trip over each other to build stadiums for football teams that can't make the playoffs, letalone win the Superbowl with any usable regularity.....
LIMP was a sucky strip, but the town didn't know a good thing when they saw it. Those with streetable cars will be on the streets (surprise!), those with track cars are now stuck with the nice few hour trek to Maple Grove (very nice strip, but a pain to get to), or dealing with Englishtown (a long as it lasts, and oh yeah, got a muffler the size of a 50 gallon drum?). I think there's one in northern NJ, but it might be a 1/8th - yuck. Last dragster I was in, 1/4 felt too short (but actually took 8 seconds....)
The east end's too developed as it is, I'm waiting for someone to propose simply paving it like Nassau is...
Another reason I want to get my ass off of LI.....
PA Press Release
After someone guesses the location correctly, I'll pose my question.
Hot Dawg -- We Have A Weiner!
WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG TO RENOVATE ONE SET OF STAIRCASES AT THE 40TH ST SIDE?
Its all about the labor, my friend. The longer it takes, the more bucks one rakes.
Whoops! Did I said 76?
76 and COUNTING.....
:P
LMFAO.
Look at what someone wrote above where it says 10/03.
James Bond, here we come.
-From "Thunderball" (1965)
Why does everyone think it's at Roosevelt?
They post before reading the previous responses. It's a dirty, dirty habit.
Though Roosevelt is a good guess, as there is construction going on there as well. There is a new staircase that opened on the Jamaicabound platform.
Why was your 5 rerouted? I don't know. Maybe somebody sneezed at 86th Street.
"This is a Brooklyn-bound <5> Express train, via the 7th Avenue Line. The next stop is...34th Street-Penn Station."
I took a picture of it at 14th Street.
You can tell it's not a 2 by the diamond-shaped area above the end door.
VC Madman
VC Madman
Why?
VC Madman
R62A and R62 are two totally different things. Same goes with R142 and R142A.
Sorry to nitpick. I'll only go back to the Transit Museum store at GCT when they start selling Redbird numberplates again.
The "Redbird Parts Coming Soon" banner has been on the mainpage for SO long...
The fleet has already bowed.
WTF are they gonna commence the sales?
Regards,
Jimmy
Regards,
Jimmy
Not exactly. UNOFFICIALLY the "JJ" lasted right into 1986 on the R16s that operated on the "J". There was no rollsign for "J", so they displayed the orange "JJ" signs instead. :)
R32 to the Roof
R38 to the Gate
This Is What I Live For...
R 46's run second ... all due to design..
N Broadway Line
R32:
R38:
More pics
Hope that helps.
N Broadway
R-38's run only on the A and C. R-32's run on all of the lines you mention.
Differences:
R32/R32A:
-Fluted stainless steel up to roof level.
-Front is entirely fluted stainless steel (but sign bonnet is flat stainless steel).
-Number plates slightly similar to those on all post-R42's (not including the R42's) but in an uglier font. They're also smaller than the old-style number plates.
-Headlights and taillights bulge out separately redbird-style.
-Nothing on blind panel except door indicator light.
R38:
-Fluted stainless steel on lower half, flat stainless steel on upper half.
-Front is fluted stainless steel on the lower half and flat stainless steel on the top half. The sign bonnet has a large frame around the LED sign which is the width of the storm door.
-Old-style number plates.
-Headlights and taillights do not bulge out as much and each set is together (different design, but also made by Lovell-Dressel).
-The blind panel has a door indicator light, a TA logo II, and a radio antenna.
You're seeing an R38. Anything else would be R32 (except for #3348, but that's a different story).
R-32.
Well, if they were cats, you would lift up their hind legs and look.
Oh well.... I guess I got tired of this thread, having seen the 38s arrive on the system you could instantly tell them appart.
: ) Elias
R-32.
Plus, was cleaning up my hard drive and found a Q418 that I never put up from back in January. This was taken the morning after the derailment on the Low Grade near Wayne Junction. If the neighborhood wasn't a demilitarized zone, would be a good place to watch, with the CSX Trenton Line, the SEPTA Main Line and the Richmond Industrial Track. Count how many SEPTA trains go by while the Q418 passes under.
http://www.trainweb.org/oaksmodelrr/Video/Index.html
And it's amazing why some cars feel the need to pull in front of trolleys and trains.
Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but to me it looks like the trolley overran a traffic light due to poor track conditions. Note that the traffic lights are red and the trolley narrowly misses not one but two vehicles. If there's anyone being stupid here, it's the trolley operator for driving too fast for the track conditions.
I was watching, and it looks like the guy/girl was just sitting there waiting to make a turn. The moment the trolley passed the stop-bar I see him pull in front and STOP in front of the streetcar. You either sit there and wait, or gun the engine and start moving, you dont' pull in front, and sit there waiting for the thing to T-bone you. or you RUN out of the car and away from the collision. Trucks, buses, suvs, this applys to.
And the, and I could be seeing this wrong, but it looks like the #%#$@ moron backs up after 4-8 seconds of staring at the trolley a foot from his face, instead of moving on or whatever.
That person needs a defensive driving course, because that mercedes still failed in about 3 instances, trolley having problems or not.
Also note the near miss with the white van. Hitting that would have hurt a bit more than merely turning the Mercedes into scrap metal.
At Herald Square the parade is actually just west of 6th Ave. so probably would not have gone under the old El.
Regards,
Jimmy
Regards,
Jimmy
Regards,
Jimmy
Try your hand at these: more NYC photos with no definite locations listed
This one is definitely either Knickerbocker or Central Ave on the M Line because it has an express trackway, but no track. Probably Central because of the lack of buildings near the canopy:
This one is also more than likely Central Ave for the same reasons above:
This one is definitely Knickerbocker Ave because I recognize that building on the left:
FWIH it had no switches after it began just south of Central Ave and was practically useless.
That's what puzzles me. If you look at the trackway it just sort of dead ends just south of the Seneca Ave station. I thought that possible the swithces may have been somewhere just past Wyckoff near the tower, and maybe an additional lay-up stub track went to Seneca. I heard what you just said once before though. I know that the express track was added in anticipation of the Canarsie line coming through Wyckoff on an el from Montrose Ave. The Tower may have been built with that in mind also. The early form NIMBY's in Bushwick got them to make the line underground instead.
Wyckoff may have looked something like Myrtle-Broadway if this elevated Canarsie line came to fruit.
That's what I thought for years, assuming that Wykoff was used as a terminal for Park Row bound el service during rush hours.
This one is on the Pelham Line at the end of the Manhattan-bound Castle Hill Ave station.
Bay Parkway, West End Line.
IRT Broadway Line, 207th St Van-Cortlandt bound platform, facing south
86th St, Sea Beach. Proximity of the old gas tank in the background is the giveaway.
Coney island Yard, outer loop track, adjacent to Belt Parkway, which is barely seen to the left of the D unit.
20th Ave, Sea Beach.
IRT Broadway Line, 225th Street, facing north.
This one is on the Pelham Line at the end of the Manhattan-bound Castle Hill Ave station.
Bay Parkway, West End Line.
IRT Broadway Line, 207th St Van-Cortlandt bound platform, facing south
86th St, Sea Beach. Proximity of the old gas tank in the background is the giveaway.
Coney island Yard, outer loop track, adjacent to Belt Parkway, which is barely seen to the left of the D unit.
20th Ave, Sea Beach.
IRT Broadway Line, 225th Street, facing north.
I'm 90% sure this is Broad Channel.
20th Ave, Sea Beach, facing north
IRT Flushing Line at 33rd St, facing 40th St
Sure looks like 74th / Roosevelt Ave, front of Manhattan-bound platform
Kings Highway, Sea Beach?
That's all the time I had, folks :)
--Mark
Good Work Sleuth Mark.
Definatley Church Ave/Brighton
Before my time, but near Grand Ave cutoff?
Before my time, but Rockaway, Saratoga, Ralph, Reid, Troy, Tompkins or Nostrand/Fulton?
Any station along existing Liberty Ave elevated
Possibly Knickerbocker Ave (green church spire dead giveway?)?
Bingo. No doubt. Definitely Knickerbocker. That big building on the right is still there.
Before my time, but Rockaway, Saratoga, Ralph, Reid, Troy, Tompkins or Nostrand/Fulton?
I agree with those too. The construction of the roofline narrows it down to Broadway, Rebuilt Fulton, Liberty, and Jamaica. The end construction narrows it further down to Liberty or rebuilt Fulton. It might not be an exact narrowing down, but it is almost definitely somewhere along either the rebuilt but now demolished Fulton line, or one of the remaining stations on the Liberty El.
On a similar note, Does anyone recognize this building? This is also either the Liberty El or the demolished Fulton line. If you get one of these photos, we got two. It's not Broadway or Jamaica because although the stations were built similar, they didn't have that type of railings. (on Broadway they had railings where they could built in billboards).
I'm thinking it may be one of the Fulton stations because unless that building is demolished, I have never seen it on a current line.
Here's our mystery photo again:
You are right, the photo appears to have been taken in the 50's, so that would rule out west of Rockaway Ave. I don't think there any "dual contracts" side platform stations east of Rockway.
The train appears to be on a fantrip. I'm still not sure about Broadway. The buildings to the left of that big building appear to be a "newer" type of building than what appear on Broadway, and Broadway's stations don't have railings with bars like that, they were railings with built in "ad panels", such as in the next photo taken at Chauncey St, that's why I keep ruling out Broadway. Jamaica Ave may have had "bar" railings without ad panels.
How about 111th or 160th Street? Anything like that building there, that has/had a center track. 160th had too many large buildings around it to be that photo I think, but what about 111th? The buildings to the left of that large building are consistant with many on Jamaica Ave and in this photo, it appears like there are "bar" type railings WITHOUT ad panels. In addition, in the bottom photo of 111th, there is a large building that looks like it could be the building to the right of the "ornate" building in the top mystery photo. Now, compare the top mystery photo to the bottom 111th St photo, that large building appears to be in both, and taking into consideration the railings, I think it's 111th St. What do you guys think?
This would then also be 111th St?
This would then also be 111th St?
I'll look forward to finding out what it was, and is, now. Karl B or Paul Matus may know.
Grimace, how about "Lipschitz" as well as "Lipshutz" (lips shut) ?
I know a couple who legally changed their name from Lipschitz to Lipsin, to end the inevitable razzing.
Amazing isn't it? All of Broadway went down in flames. Check out the Kosciuszko St section too on this site. There are buildings everywhere in the old photos, and anyone that visits the station now knows there's basically no buildings around it now, just like Chauncey.
The top photo is the photo in question. The 2 other pictures are at 80/Hudson for reference. I believe Chris R27/30 was the one who thought this might be on the old Fulton el. Looking at the picture, beyond the train I noticed that there are station columns. To the best of my knowledge, the Liberty el is the only type to have this particular type as shown. As to which station it might be gets difficult. From pictures that I have available to me, the rebuilt section of the Fulton el from Hinsdale to Nostrand looked just like the Broadway el. To me it looks like it could be 80/Hudson. The trees at the end of the station and their height automatically leads me to believe of the old cemetery (Bayside, I believe) which is shown in the second photo south of the station. There is really not much else to go on. I zeroed in on this piece of wood that is next to the 3rd rail in the photo. What that piece of wood is for I am not exactly sure of. In the last photo taken from the opposite side it appears that that same piece of wood might be in the picture. It is too dark to tell for sure but it looks like it might be in the same place. Like I said, it could be 80/Hudson but who knows? What do you think?
101st Avenue "takes off" from the north side of Liberty Avenue beginning at Grant Avenue. Oh for an image of the Grant Avenue station on the old Fulton el !
The "questionable note" on this photo is correct as This one is definitely 125th Street, as this photo taken at 125th Street is the same train, the same day, and the same backround.
So if a streeter gets a 100 and a Promo gets a 70, the Promo is called first before the Streeter. This is Civil Service Law.
Seriously, I know some folks who are doing that and they're VERY good. The old-timers who are doing the TA shuffle STILL have 32's (remarkably similar to redbirds undercar, just bigger) and other cars to avoid "computer duty" ... but as always, those TWU folks who know they MUST adapt have done so in stride ... for your ride. Agggh. :)
It’s early days in this technology, but why shouldn’t it be applied to rail cars, which are much more expensive? A 10% maintenance cost savings is worthwhile money!
For all the FEARS of new tech, Car Equipment and such, those who remain TWU members are GETTING "future training" or have picked off to where the "old cars" will keep them busy until they check out of this fakacta motel ("bad yiddish" INTENTIONAL, please don't BOTHER to correct me, went for Phonics fer dem goyim) ... heh.
Bottom line, Car Equipment *HAS* folks who do that, as well as folks who do *THAT* ... :)
Regards,
Jimmy :P
When *I* worked the rails, car inspectors (CI's and RCI's) as well as Motorman Instructors (MMI's) showed you ALL the tricks to keep the railroad running despite MINOR qwap) and TAUGHT you to "flip the boxes on the journals" as part of your wakeup "walkthrough" to make sure they were lubed ... ONCE upon a time, ALL of us in TWU were in the same army and we all got along as best we could ... aside from a few of us "white boys" who sided with "rank and file" faction ...
But "Special High Intensity Training" seems to be unfortunately the accepted "norm" these days. Once upon a time, us hourlies were ONLY concerned with running the damned railroad DESPITE the problems. I suppose now that there AREN'T "real" problems, too many damned wigs. :(
But as to the "new tech" folks ... they really DO have about as much of a grip as the vendors will ALLOW ... don't sell DCE short ... PLENTY of good, knowedgeable people there who MAKE TRAINS GO.
I suspect most of the propulsion trouble's going to be figuring out WHICH part's bad, at which point you swap out modules and let someone in a far away place with a magic soldering iron worry about it....
Can't argue though that a WISE person will want to keep up. Fortunately for the TA and those who work there, there's still plenty of good work for those who haven't, so everybody still wins. :)
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/transportation/nyc-nyferr023567446dec02,0,4856724.story?coll=nyc-topheadlines-left
Delta ran a water taxi to LGA for a while and then stopped it. Did they not market it enough, or are there really not enough customers? Bloomberg thinks this can work.
The reson that the Roosevelt Island's aerial tramway was built is because Coast Guard regulations were such a problem.
A relevant question is: Are there known navigational hazards around Roosevelt Island?
Also, I don't know if this would help, but I think they should run express and local versions of this service.
Express: WFC(if they choose to have a stop there)-Pier 11(the origin of the old LGA ferry)-60th st(or anywhere between 58th and 63rd sts)-LGA
Local: WFC-Pier 11-Fulton Ferry Landing-LIC-60th st-Roosevelt Island(northern end, not the tip, but close to the residential area)(No passengers will be provided service between Roosevelt Island and 60th st/92nd st)-92nd st-Randall Island(limited service?)-LGA
WTF!!!!!! Did I not just suggest that here? No, I am not saying that the city stole my idea, but it is weird. And I had that same terminus at JFK as well, Bergen Boat Basin. I really think this one cud be a major hit, IF ADVERTISED PROPERLY! Airtrain would also have to construct a new stop, or is there some stop near the boat basin already like the article implies?
Also, question. It's a really crazy idea, but, do any city officials or anybody in the transit dept of the city look at this site. It's just so weird that I've never heard the plan before, all while it was so obvious to me. It hit me as soon as I looked at my hagstrom map. Now, not even a month later, NYC is proposing the very same line? It just seems like such an odd coincidence that it just might be.
And yes, you should.
I encourage you to write. They should be hearing from you.
Like I said, there'd be an express service mainly to serve JFK, and a local service mainly to serve communities in the city, while giving them the option of taking the ferry to JFK.
:0)
Boats are slower than land vehicles. There is of course traffic that slows down land vehicles, and stops and wait times for rapid transit vehicles, but a ferry boat would be less direct than any of those modes.
"BoatTrain"?
What idea? Serving an airport you don't own, or using the ferryboats you don't have?
Hey, I hear you about the coincidences though. Me, I remember walking along the CRRNJ ROW from Bayonne into Newark in the late seventies, and thinking how sad I was that there was no train service along there any more. (Except for the Cranford Shuttle, into Elizabeth which I actually happened to stumble upon one day after walking over the Bayonne Bridge. Sure an' Begorra, I caught the train at the old 8th Street station to boot!) I looked at the area and was amazed at the high density of the ROW territory. It seemed a natural for this line to have passenger service returned to it, and I wasn't shy about expressing this viewpoint to others. 20 years later, comes the HBLRT. And I could point out other weird coincidences, some with a timespan of only a year or two. Ever hear the expression, "When it comes time to railroad, you railroad."?
Think of it this way: great minds think alike.
That ferry to Rockaway Beach, I thought it left from Sheepshead Bay. That's what my old hagstrom says, unless they had 2 ferry routes or moved it from Canarsie Pier to Sheepshead bay.
How did that ferry do anyway?
I'll take note on that saying you reminded me of, great minds think alike. I just don't know though if I'm thinkin like NYC and the PA that I've got such a great mind, or even worse, if they're thinkin like me. lol.
In any event, this was before the Marine Parkway Bridge. The only way to the Rockaways without going around through what is now the Five Towns (Rockaway Turnpike/Boulevard) was by ferry.
Kramer: Look at this, they are redoing the Cloud Club.
Jerry: Oh, that restaurant on top of the Chrysler building? Yeah, that’s a good idea.
Kramer: Of course it’s a good idea, it’s my idea. I conceived this whole project two years ago.
Jerry: Which part? The renovating the restaurant you don’t own part or spending the two hundred million you don’t have part?
(* I can't remember if "they" were the LMDC, the Port Authority, Pataki, Bloomberg, or someone else.)
But given that in the near future, both the LIRR and the A train will provide service from Manhattan to JFK at what will presumably be much lower fares (the Delta Water Shuttle to LGA cost $15 one way, even though Delta subsidized its operation), exactly how popular will a JFK ferry be? It's not like the situation at LGA, where the only transit access is via buses that can be overcrowded and get significantly delayed in local traffic congestion.
As for the LGA ferry, it wont work unless they have an airport shuttle to go to the other terminals, and they need to advertise throughout the airport and a few commercials.
Unlike the route to LGA, which is reasonably sheltered water all the way, the route to JFK would seem to require the ferry to through some reasonably exposed ocean.
The ferry to JFK would probably do fairly well, and most likely will be very reliable. I mean, it doesn't get stuck in traffic, it doesn't have to worry about signals being knocked out. The only things that would slow up a ferry operation, along with really any operation of public transportation, is high winds, heavy rain, and snow/ice.
Not trying to make a point. Just wondering how rough it gets out there in winter, and whether that might lead to cancelled services.
I know Seastreak now operates ferry services to Highlands and Atlantic Highlands that must presumably face similar conditions, but I've no idea how often (if ever) they cancel.
According to their web site (http://www.seastreak.com/) their boats are 140' 400 seater catamarans. Not exactly a water taxi. :-)
Or, a heavier-than-air craft, to smoothly cross in a controlled float over Brooklyn and Queens. Perhaps, ala those drawings of 100 years ago, (and with computer controlled handling and stabilization of the vehicle,) have rooftop stations. Sure would make for an interesting skyline.
Am I serious? Prob'ly not.
Anyway, at 14th St, I hear Charlie say, "Transfer is available to the 1, F, L, and V trains. Connection is available to PATH trains." Good thing I was taping when it happened.
Also, hasn't there been a memo handed to all 2 line conductors telling them not to "ding out" the PATH announcement at Park Place? The station's been open for almost a week (as of Friday) and the conductor of the train I was on still dinged it out.
A big surprise (not as big as Charlie saying "V") came when I learned that the train I was on would run express south of President Street, stopping at Church Avenue ant Flatbush Avenue.
*pinches cheeks* lol
I was on an R-142A on the (6) that didn't have its strip maps updated. You know, it didn't have the new transfers pasted on top of the old ones.
Incognito
Perhaps the photographer was standing directly over the last set of catenary wires?
I seem to remember a lot of bridge abutments built for that Sheridan Expressway, and they stood unused for years when I lived in the Bronx.
Regards,
Jimmy
-Stef
The woman was dragged 4 feet. How long would that take? Just a couple of seconds? Her jacketed arm was in the door. She removed her hand, yet the jacket remained. The train operator got indication and moved. I assume the conductor scans both ends of the train as it pulls out. How much time did he have to react?
Did the train pulled out of the station? If the conductor pulled the cord, then I think he's off the hook.
Where were the grandchildren? On the station or in the car? If they were on the station, it would seem to me that the woman did try to hold back the doors.
Oddly, the woman credited God for guiding her. Would it be sacreligious to assign the blame in this case to the Almighty? Or does the woman bear responsibility for her actions?
If people were regularly and consistently sanctioned for truly frivolous lawsuits (easy to say, difficult to accomplish) this might be less of a problem.
Of course you can't sue the motorman and conductor since they are agents of the TA, but I added that in to enhance the example for this case.
>During tests, the system worked as designed, Seaton said.
To me this looks like they are setting up the c/r. In school car they told us that the sensor are sensitive to 1/16 of an inch. Now it would be VERY hard to drag someone by the hem of a coat that was that thin.
Now if she had cockroach killers on, the spot where the 2 doors join the floor can take an inch or three and stil give indication and from a monitor just look like someone is standing near the door.
You're the conductor. You're closing up at a station. A passenger runs up to a closing door on a non R142 and sticks his arm in the door. What does the rule book say you must do? Open up and allow the passenger in or jiggle the doors hoping the passenger removes his arm and you get your indication?
Let's say you jiggle the doors, get indication and leave the passenger standing on the platform. Are you required to give extra attention to ensure that the passenger is not stuck in the door?
Officials Say Train Sensors Were Fine
So even though it's the C/R's fault for not seeing this, the "victim" managed to disrupt N/B service on the rerouted #5 line. Imagine if this happened during rush hour?
One drag case on the M, the passenger claimed that on 2 track the OPTO T/O was smiling at them as he pulled out of the station dragging them out. It was established that no one else was in the cab. Operating a train while looking out your off side would make you VERY tall.
Depends on the material. You could easily strangle somebody with nylon that thin. Or mylar.
I am assuming that media accounts do not necessarily contain every detail of the case.
How long will the TA take to complete its investigation?
The thing the story doesn't say, how'd/when did the train stop or what happened that she got free. Was the platform crowded, did the conductor have a good view, etc...
If they can't prove that God told her to interfere with train operation, I hope there is a statute that does in the TA operations manual.
"What was your hand doing in the john between the doors?"
Religion is the opiate of the masses.
Having God on your side means having someone else to blame.
Some people draw inspiration from a supernatural concept and see it as empowering them to work and accomplish; others see it as convenient because it allows them to avoid facing responsibility for making choices.
Let it snow in College Park, MD!!!
Is LIPA really that pathetic?
This is in Greenvale, off Town Path road. Been like this for weeks. Told the house nearby they said they already called LIPA. Called LIPA again myself. The wires are drooping and actually 2 are off their insulators.
Again in Greenvale off Glen Cove road, there's another 3 phase primary wire going right through a tree
25A in Roslyn, a tree branch on one phase of wire
Another leaning pole, been this way since we got the remnants of Isabel.
So, you cant always fault the LIRR when they have signal problems in LIPA territory. More often than not, a power disruption messed up the signals.
LIPA's primary distribution lines are in such bad shape, I shudder to think what their secondary poles are like!
Chuck Greene
Despite the fact that as I have become older, my enthusiasm for snow has dropped markedly, I still believe in a white Christmas–preferably fresh snow on Christmas morning.
As for California being God’s country, I think God made it on the 6th day when he stopped to have some weed. That’s why it (and many of its inhabitants) are cracked!
Wait! I lived in the North East of England for many years. Like home!
Oh well.
I hear snow/rain for the trips this weekend, we shall see.
(sighs as the disappointment of no snow in the Rockaway flats on the A line)
Good thing the passageway along 50th between Broadway and 8th was closed today (why?), or I would have never known.
Whiteout!
Awaiting Todd Glickman's response, John!!!!!
The analogy is that that LIRR conductors and NYCTA motormen have no control over decisions made by their respective railroads' management.
Yesterday when it snowed I was on a comfortable MBTA Commuter Train (see, on topic!) bypassing all the people who were stuck on Boston area roads for hours. My commute took about one hour 15 minutes, about 15 minutes longer than usual. My secretary, who lives not far from me but drives to work, had her commute take THREE HOURS.
Hopefully, she'll learn her lesson!
John
It’s been an number of years sense I last visited Metro Network's studio on Wisconsin Avenue in Freindship Heights, mid 1990s, so they may have moved sense then. Bob Marbourg does in fact work out of Metro Network's studio because that’s where all of the traffic information is gathered and put in their data base used for the other Metro Network's subscriber. A number of the reporters heard on other stations are heard on more then one station, Such as the off peek reporters heard on WTOP.
Before Metro Network's set up shop in Washington, Bob Marbourg and Jim Russ use to do the reports from the field. Walt Starling flew his own plane out of Collage Park Airport for the reports he did for WMAL.
John
John
BTW, I believe you just insulted a fellow SubTalker with this posting...
Are those cars moved often, BTW?
So, was it snowing just 14-blocks from you, or was it the whole length of the 14-blocks that had snow? :)
What's the deal with that Orion VI though? That's a funky looking bus for an Orion, is the engine smaller or something? And even if it is, never seen an Orion with the door that far down.
Guy next to the bus got an interesting tag, "City USA", must be his own company or somthing.
Was it the Depression? The rise of the automobile? Robert Moses? Something else?
Actually all of the above.
However, what really prevented the Second System from advancing (it was never actuallt funded, so it was never actually "killed") was the fact that the City blew the rapid transit debt limit on the original system in its insistance on going it alone without the additiona of private capital, as in the Dual Contracts.
That's the answer, pure and simple.
It seems the Port Authority learned from that lesson when they built AirTrain under a DBOM (design-build-operate-maintain) contract with a consortium of private companies.
I wonder if the MTA has taken this into consideration for the SAS, 7-train Extenstion, et cetera?
Priorities changed, and highways and public housing was built, all within plans that would decentralize cities and make big new subways unneeded. This lasted until the 1970s, when cities started to be appreciated then, but the rot in mass transit was very advanced by then.
Either rusting hulks or very, very deep in debt. The SAS was needed, but if those repairs were put off any longer, the SAS might have ended up the only part of the system operational.
4 tracks over Manhattan Bridge have not been needed for 20 years, in that light Chrystie St connection is one of the most useless projects in MTA history. I'll take 2nd Av subway any time over it.
Arti
Yes - two lines to different places is better than to to practically the same place. The only bit of Chrystie that was a good idea was letting Broadway trains access the South Side of the Manny B. If they'd left in the connector to the North Side, service patterns would not have changed for the last 20 years.
The IND would have been totally worthwhile if it were built complimentary to what was already there. For instance:
2 tracks 212/Hillside to Continental, 4 tracks to 14/8 where 2 tracks join Canarsie Line, 2 tracks continue to Fulton Ferry then rise to take over El.
Arti
That's part true, and part false. I do agree, the IND was very redundant in some spots, but in others it was a good improvement. Unfortunately politics prevented it, but the BMT and IRT should have been taken over by the city and the IND properly incorporated into it.
-In Manhattan, the replacement and removal of the els was a good thing. The 8th Ave line is a good line, and enabled the abandonment of the 9th Ave El. The boondoggle was the building of the 6th Ave line before the 2nd Ave line. The money should have been spent on the 2nd Ave subway instead of the very expensive 6th Ave line. This would have allowed the proper abandonment of the 2nd and 3rd Ave els. The 6th Ave el could have been abandoned without the 6th Ave subway, as the Broadway line does basically what the 6th Ave line does. The 53rd Street tunnel could have been connected to the Broadway line somehow, and if money ever arose, the 6th Ave subway could have been part of the Second System.
-The Queens Blvd is a great addition to the system, and shouldn't have been built any differently.
-In Brooklyn, the IND's takeover of the Culver is also good, but it should also have been connected to the 4th Subway, and the original Clulver connection to 4th Ave should have remained. This would have allowed much flexiblity for normal routing, or emergency reroutes.
-south of West 4th is fine, except at Prince St there should have been a connection to the Broadway line, thus negating the need for the 6th Ave line further.
Redundancies:
-The Concourse line is a total waste of money, as it is redundant to the Jerome El The money should have been used to convert the Pelham line to the BMT/IND and improving the 3rd Ave line to allow Lexington Trains to run on it, negating the loss of the Pelham line (the 5 could have run there, and the 6 would run onto the West Farms/Dyre Line).
-The Fulton Subway was a total waste of money. The Fulton El was a Dual Contract El, worthy of subway cars. It should not have been built west of Broadway Junction (the section between BJ and the Liberty el should have been built as built, as it was either that or rebuilt the non-dual contract el, but the section west of Broadway Juction should not have been built) The Cranberry Tube should have been connected to the rebuilt portion of the Fulton El, and the money saved by not building the Fulton Subway could have been used by extending the line further into Queens where there was no service, isnstead of needlessly replacing perfectly good dual contract els.
If those redundancies were not done, we would have a bigger system today, and areas that have no service today may have it now. The Second System could have planned further expansion, and then, and only then could they have planned a "third system" that may have begun to replace some els with subway, such as on Fulton or Broadway (Brooklyn), etc. First expand the system, then worry about replacement in the system.
That Second System should have included a 5th Avenue subway instead. I understand the original objections to 5th Avenue transit, but 5th Avenue is mostly commercial south of 57th Street now and was by the 1930s, where would the NIMBYs be?
-Blair
Where was the pic of the S-curve with the man on the right?
2nd from the bottom.
I hpe the scum who murdered that young man last week in Far Rockaway die a miserable painful death!!
Guns dont kill People do!!!!!!!!
If citizens of this country were allowed to carry handguns onto airplanes,perhaps Sept 11 2001,would be just another normal day instead of the day of infamy it will always be.
19 evil men murdered THOUSANDS without 1 single bullet!!!!!!
ALL of you Anti-Gun Nuts think about that!!!
Evil is as Evil does!!!!!
Goldfinger (1964)
Executive Decision
U.S. Marshalls
The atmosphere at 30,000 feet is not a vacuum and an aircraft is not a spacecraft, not only can it not be perfectly sealed, there are valves on the plane that bleed air into the atmosphere to maintain pressure. A bullethole would be so small that it would be unlikely to cause any damage, a small air leak would result, and the existing outflow valves would be closed to make up for it. The chances of a massive structural disaster caused by a leaking airplane are between slim and nil.
In fact, on April 28, 1988, a major section of the roof of an Aloha Airlines Boeing 737-200 flew off in mid-flight causing a rapid depressurization of the aircraft at 24000 feet. The plane managed to land safely. The only major injuries were of flight attendants. One attendant was sucked into the stratosphere. Other flight attendants who were not seated with their seat belts on (I should point out that the seat belt light was still on) suffered various non-permanent injuries. The plane made an emergency landing at Maui Airport.
Very good, Pigs. If I recall correctly, the cabin pressure on a jetliner is set to about 6,000 feet altitude or so (I have read as much as 8,000). So the relative pressure difference in the Aloha airlines incident would have been 24,000 - 6,000 = 18,000 feet.
The aircraft's circulation system receives fresh air from the outside compressed to ambient cabin pressure and circulated inside; the system an also be set to recirculate air. There is a balance struck between fresh and recirculated air; the less fresh air from outside, the less demand on the engines, and the more fuel-efficient the aircraft becomes. This was a source of some controversy several years ago.
However, a relatively small amount of explosive in the right place (or A right place, as there is more than one) could cause a rapid structural failure and the loss of the aircraft.
–Hyperbaric injuries from the decompression: the lungs aren’t built to withstand significant pressure differences between the outside and the inside.
–Anoxia, which can lead to brain damage if continued.
"This was a tragedly that could have and SHOULD have been prevented if honest law abiding citizens were allowed to carry handguns!! If others had guns on that train I believe 100% that less than 6 people or even NO people would have been killed!!!!!!!!
Consider the close, confined space of a railroad car. If others on that train had guns then the death toll would have probably been even higher and Ferguson would still probably be alive.
"Guns dont kill People do!!!!!!!! "
And what do a lot of those people use? GUNS!!!!
Oh yeah. You think Hollywood ever paints an accurate picture of reality? Puhleeze!
If more good guys carried guns in NYC there would be less good guys and a lot more lawsuits for civil rights violations.
Keep your gun in Pennsylvania.
*I can't forget that date. It's what got us cops free passage on the LIRR, and also got us Senator Carolyn McCarthy.
No it wouldn't have. The hijackers were armed with boxcutters, then a legal weapon on airplanes. If they were carrying legal weapons, why did no one else decide to also use legal weapons to defend the plane?
If people were allowed to carry guns, the hijackers would also carry guns and no other person with a gun would dare to attack them. Until 9/11 hijackings were of a hostage nature, not a murder nature.
Chances are much better that the other civilians would have increased the body count by felling their fellow citizens in the confusion. They would have caused alot more harm than good.
An armed police officer might have made a difference - if he/she weren't felled. But it's easy and counterproductive to play Monday Morning quarterback.
This was a real tragedy. I don't see what there is to be gained by dreaming about a Rambo fantasy solving it.
We know which one is more likely - and your scenario isn't. On balance, we're safer without Rambo.
Now tell me how likely it was to be killed on that train?
"On balance, we're safer without Rambo"
On the contrary, being Rambo is probably the last thing someone carrying a concealed wepon has on their mind. The reason you carry a firearm is not to be macho, it's in case some crazy lunatic comes in and is going to kill someone. But, I have to agree that playing MMQ is counterproductive. May those who died rest in peace. And may Ferguson burn in hell.
Since it is almost impossible to get a carry permit for a handgun in NY State, no, we don't know which scenerio is more likely.
Japanese train sets record at 580 kph
It makes me wonder doesn't Metra have some way of enforcing the speed limit on its main lines? On the LIRR I believe the way it works is by a bell sounding when the speed limit has been exceeded and the operator must reduce speed NOW otherwise there will be a full emergency application. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, both locomotives were damaged, they will b returned to Boise for repair.
I don't know the details, but the speed limit is apparently temporary (track charts a few years old show switch speed to be 25mph). Anyway the only the guy was going to be doing 60mph is if he missed an approach signal, so tests on the approach signal ought to tell us whether he missed it. Recreation at the same time of the day and similar weather would have told us whether he saw a phantom signal or just wasn't paying attention.
It makes me wonder doesn't Metra have some way of enforcing the speed limit on its main lines?
No, except on cab signalled lines. I was told that many lines are still cab signalled from the days when private railroads installed them. In other places they rely on the engineer, but the FRA can show up at any time and point a speed gun at your train. Generally engineers are pretty good about adhereing permanent speed limits, but sometimes work zone limits that are on the track warrant can get missed if the guy is distracted. AEM7
What you posted was what was in the mag, with a picture of one of the units sitting crosswise with its nose somewhat bashed.
Nights (J) will terminate at St George, while SIR will act as a Staten Island shuttle. Some new platforms and fare controls would have to be built or modified, but if this could work, it would be better than the ferry(except it won't be free) and it would give the MTA more $$$ for the SIR (which currently only gets fares from St George, and possibly the Stadium, not sure). Plus they can get rid of many of those SI express buses. Many riders could avoid the long ferry, or avoid having to go into Brooklyn. Only problem will be that the Ferry may be in the way of the SIR/J train extension.
Another alternative would be to hook the SAS up to the SIR
What do you all think?
They're rebuilding the signals at great expense, so it's too late now, but they should have coverted the SIR (and the north shore line) to a BRT-style busway, complete with stations. That could have been profitable, because local buses from elsewhere could have gotten up on it and used it.
Streetcars, maybe?
During the morning rush on trains to St. George, the fare collection would be pay-as-you-leave[local travel], with all passengers paying at St.George. The afternoon rush would have passengers pay fares at St.George, while passengers boarding at other stations would pay-as-you-enter.
The equipment would be a modified, articulated version of the SEPTA N5 car, about 95 feet long. A two-car train would be adequate during rush hours, and require a two-man crew. During non-rush periods, a single operator would be sufficient, in operating the train, and collecting fares.
What would you think about this idea?
I agree that a tunnel should be cut but NOT for trains. My plan was to open a foot tunnel so people can walk/bike across the river from Staten Island to Manhattan instead of waiting for the ferry. Unfortunatly, my foot tunnel didn't win any support on these forums.
and close Atlantic and Nassau Stations and replace with a station In bewtween the former Atlantic and Nassau stations.
(Damn, I CANT seem to get over losing a Ultimate Ride nap to that tuna boi).
hehehehe...
Chuck Greene
Ditto me on the Saturday... Here's hoping we draw the 1 line on SUNday.
1MODVirgin9
I have more, but there's a 8Mb restriction..
Ask me if you have any questions.
Trams of type 100 are the oldest, cca 1962., made in Croatia by Djuro Djakovic. Trams of type 200 are a bit younger (cca 1970.?), made in Croatia also.
Tram types 300 (cca 1985.) and 400 (cca 1978.) are imported from Czech Republic.
The 900's are imported from Mannheim (Germany) - they are secondhand trams :-) (made cca 1964.).
The newest trams are those of "2100" series - 16 of them - serial#s 2101 to 2116. There were made by Koncar (in Croatia) in 2000.
München's U-Bahn - type A is from 1970's, B a bit younger and C is brand new. Right now all U-Bahn trains in my München album are type A.
S-Bahn: ET420 old ones, ET423 - brand new ones.
Arti
The other reason why München's subway is so clean could be that its stations are completely covered by surveillance cameras.
Also, there is U-Bahn-Wache - something like Transit Cops..
And perhaps a different mentality..
Wide-angle photos don't show dirt too well, for one thing.
For another, most other subways carry 1/2 or even 1/10th the passenger load of the MTA. Other systems very likely have the same percentage of slobs but the absolute numbers are so much lower that keeping the infrastructure clean becomes a viable option.
Dave, while I was checking out about this photo I found two errors on the 40/Lowery pages. Images 26160 and 4275 are not at Lowery. They both look to be on the el above Roosevelt Ave. but I am not sure where.
#4275 is actually @ 74th Street.
#26160 is actually @ 90th Street.
And I'm almost 100% sure that the photos that you posted are from 33rd Street.
A technical question: the camera is 3.2 megapixels and comes with a memory card that's 16 MB. Anyone know how many photos it will hold?
Usually with 16 MB memory you will get 8-10 pictures at high resolution, 30 or 40 at lowest resolution
you can always upgrade the memory card to 64 mbs. you could then save hundreds of pictures at low to medium resolution
This Is What I Live For...
I suggest you get a bigger one.
I have an 8MB, 32MB, and 64MB card.
The metric I’m using is memory/price.
From the J&R site:
PNY 128MB costs $44.88
PNY 256MB costs $59.88
PNY 512MB costs $109.88
PNY 1G costs $229.88
So clearly $15 to buy you double the memory is worthwhile. After that, the increments vary from slightly less to slightly more than linear. There are other slight variations between brands, but the trend is about the same.
Shop around and see what you can get!
I've selected a camera that I want for Christmas. It's a Sony, and comes with a Memory Stick (16 MB, I think). I already have a 128 MB MS, so I guess I'll be switching sticks when the 16 fills up, or buying another one with some Christmas money I hope to get.
John
Look out Metrocard swipers and trolls, smile. Your picture from my phone may be viewed by anyone in the NYPD.
1. A pancake
or
2. Fried and well done to a crisp from a alien laser beam.
Are you talking about the battery sellers or the Metrocard swipers?
As for commercial activity, why not a permit issued by NYCT allowing them to do that? Offer a month-to month fee of, say $100 and allow them to hawk whetever they want (expcept Metrocards, of course). Restrict the permit to non-rush hour travel and make other restrictions as well. And why are people buying candies from kids on trains for $1 when a station newsstand sells the same candies for a quarter less? Or is it people are buying into their pleas to raise money for their "basketball uniforms"?
I'd be more concerned for people leaning over the edge (another violation of the law; entering any part on their body onto tracks and roadbeds), getting hit by a train and the T/O and C/R do the cup thing and the T/O will the tramuatized (possibly for the rest of his life) for seeing up close the face smacking, than kids selling candy.
Execerpted from NYCRR Title 21 Chapter XXI Section 1050.6(c):
"The following non-transit uses are authorized and permitted by the Authority...: public speaking... Permitted non-transit uses may be conducted in the transit system except when on or within: a subway car..."
Preaching on a subway car is illegal, too.
As for commercial activity, why not a permit issued by NYCT allowing them to do that?
Because commercial activity interferes with transit operations and competes with newsstands that are paying for platform space. It also makes the subway less desirable to ride. If someone wants batteries, they can buy them at the newsstand or at a bodega next to their station; no one needs them so desperately that they want to be disturbed by someone on the train hawking cheap knockoffs that won't last five minutes.
...allow them to hawk whetever they want (expcept Metrocards, of course).
Why not Metrocards? Newsstands sell Metrocards.
Restrict the permit to non-rush hour travel and make other restrictions as well.
Trains can get just as crowded during off-peak hours, especially when there are massive G.O.s. Picture an A train at Jay St on a leisurely Sunday afternoon, where a few thousand people have just transferred from crowded shuttle buses to a train. Now add to the picture someone squeezing through the masses with a little cart, shouting "battery, battery, eight for a dollar..."
If NYCT is unwilling to grant such a permit, then perhaps NYCT has reasons to prohibit selling batteries on trains.
Oh, and there's nothing illegal about sleeping on the train: "No person on or in any facility or conveyance shall: ... Sleep or doze where such activity may be hazardous to such person or to others or may interfere with the operation of the Authority’s transit system or the comfort of its passengers."
i.e., snoring is illegal.
I'm sure the NYPD would be very interested to know that someone is taking camera-phone "spy" pictures in the subway.
You're in Manhattan - who needs a mall??
The Manhattan mall was never the same when Sterns closed its doors. That Sterns had very good clothing for men. Almost as good as Macys.
Want some adventure? Take the mainline #5 to Gun Hill and change for the Bx28 bus in front of the station. This will take you to Bay Plaza shopping center but you might be better off with the < 6 > to Pelham Bay (last stop) and catch the Bx12 bus to "Bay Plaza" it runs through the parking lot.
Newkirk Plaza. :)
If you really want a trip (Long Island & Westchester)...
Broadway Mall: LIRR to Hicksville*
Galleria: MNRR Harlem Line to White Plains*
Roosevelt Field: F to 179 St, then N22, N22A, or N24; LIRR to Mineola, then N15, N22, N24, N78, N79;
The Source (Westbury): Same as Roosevelt Field, but N78 or N79 only
* At most, a 10-minute walk from this station.
For Cross Country Mall in Yonkers, take the #4 train to Bedford Park Blvd and change for the Bee-Line #20 bus which stops in front of the west side of the mall. You can also stay on the #20 to White Plains and the Galleria Mall. But if you want to go to White Plains, the fastest way is the Bee-Line #40 bus from East 241st (#2 line subway station, last stop) but only in the PM rush, 5:20, to 6:50 every 30 minutes but it's worth the fast ride. The fare is $1.75 and cash is only accepted on Bee-Line buses.
What??? That's good if you have three hours to spend each way!!! The Broadway Mall is less than a half mile from Hicksville Station which is about a 45-50 minute ride from either Penn or Flatbush or about a half hour from Jamaica. And if you don't get an M-7 or a diesel you will have the best railfan window ride in the Metropolitan area, the Main Line stretch from Floral Park to Hicksville!!
But why would a male want to go to a shopping mall anyway. Shopping is for women and it's boring as hell. To really have a great day tomorrow take the "A" to Aqueduct.
Hey, hey! Don't be sexist! My boy is ALWAYS bugging me to go to malls! His priorities seem to be, in order, stores selling video games; the food court; stalls selling Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh cards; glass elevators if available.
Wait till your sons are teenagers. Malls are major hangouts for teens of all sexes wishing to meet the opposite, especially in very hot and cold weather.
I will agree that shopping is boring- and frustrating if nothing fits you. Food court prices are often exorbitant and the portions chintzy. Every mall has a chain bookstore, but it's usually much smaller and offering less variety than a free standing Barnes & Nobles or Borders- not to mention no seating!
With the exception of the Broadway Mall, all Long Island malls are very inconvenient from the LIRR- from which you can see Green Acres and Sunrise. Both are very long walks from their nearest respective stations. Roosevelt has decent connecting bus service, although it's sometimes faster to WALK a mile from Mineola or Carle Place, given the horrible traffic congestion buses must navigate to get to it.
South Shore and Smith Haven can only be reached by Suffolk bus, which means you're out of luck on a Sunday. Walt Whitman (usually referred to conversationally as 'the 110 Mall') barely QUALIFIES in my mind as a mall.
White Plains has two malls, but the one closer to MN seems to have fallen on hard times, with lots of vacant storefronts. There's supposed to be a much nicer one about six blocks further away. Stamford Centre is about six blocks from MN, and is far nicer- despite the lack of a food court. Problem is, the only pedestrian access is down a trucking driveway to Filene's Basement's basement.
Newport is the only mall in Jersey I know of that has any rail connection. It requires a very serpentine walk around or through office buildings from PATH to a side entrance of Macy's. But its food court and selection of stores is very good. And it provides a convenient stopover while connecting between PATH and HBLR.
Queens Center, which has been under renovation for its entire 30 years, badly needs a direct entrance to the subway. Now you have to cross 59th Avenue, which is no safer since having been converted to one-way. Herald Center does connect to the subway and PATH, but once you see past the apparent size of it you realize how limited it is.
Kings Plaza is rather limited (no food court) and despite being far from the subway, has good bus connections. Staten Island Mall is the nicest I've seen within city limits, but it's only accessible by two bus routes from the ferry (a very long ride), one route to Bay Ridge (an EXTREMELY long ride) or two routes from SIR (a short ride), which operates on a half-hour headway off peak.
And despite what you may read or hear, Bay Plaza is NOT A MALL! It's a shopping center with a very large parking lot. There are a few smaller centers adjacent to it with separate lots- and security ready with tow trucks to nail anyone who tries to park in one lot and walk to a store in another. A similar 'arrangement' exists amongst all the commercial development along Old Country Road between Roosevelt and the Source.
Cross County isn't a mall either, at least in the strict sense of the word. It's laid out like one, with many pedestrian walkways between the stores. But it's not enclosed from the elements.
The best transit-mall connection I've ever seen in the USA is Philly's Market East Galleria, where you can get the MFL, PATCO and all SEPTA commuter rail lines right in the basement. Last spring, on a DC vacation, we were able to walk from the Blue & Yellow lines directly into the Pentagon Centre Mall.
And if you've been in Toronto or Montreal, blocks and blocks of underground malls connect multiple stations in their subway systems.
I've advised both my dependents that we're steering clear of malls until MLK Day.
Called The Westchester, and located on the site of the old NYW&B terminal.
Mazza Gallery--Friendship Hts Station(Red), Crystal City Underground--Crystal City Station(Blue/Yellow), Fashion Ctr--Pentagon City Station(Blue/Yellow), The Old Post Office--Federal Triangle Station(Orange/Blue), Prince George's Plaza(Green), Wheaton Plaza--Wheaton Station(Red), The Hecht Co--Metro Ctr Station(Red,Blue,Orange), Union Station(Red), Ballston Common--Ballston Station(Orange), Congressional Plaza--Twinbrook Station(Red), Waterside Mall--Waterfront(Green).
I didn't choose shopping centers/malls that required a long walk or bus ride to get to them---i.e. White Flint Mall or Springfield Mall.
Mark
Mazza Gallery--Friendship Hts Station(Red),
Crystal City Underground--Crystal City Station(Blue/Yellow),
Fashion Ctr--Pentagon City Station(Blue/Yellow),
The Old Post Office--Federal Triangle Station(Orange/Blue),
Prince George's Plaza(Green),
Wheaton Plaza--Wheaton Station(Red),
The Hecht Co--Metro Ctr Station(Red,Blue,Orange),
Union Station(Red),
Ballston Common--Ballston Station(Orange),
Congressional Plaza--Twinbrook Station(Red),
Waterside Mall--Waterfront(Green).
I didn't choose shopping centers/malls that required a long walk or bus ride to get to them---i.e. White Flint Mall or Springfield Mall.
My criteria, direct access from station to Mall or shopping center without having to see the light of day. On WMATA you would have to throw out all but three that you list above and add one. I would also throw out The Hecht Company at Metro Center because it’s a single retailer with direct access.
Mazza Gallery: Friendship Heights (A08) Red line A Route,
Chevy Chase Pavilion: Friendship Heights (A08) Red line A Route,
Union Station (B03) Red line A route,
Crystal City Underground: Crystal City (C09) Blue Yellow lines.
As to the one you forgot by your criteria,
Chevy Chase Pavilion: Friendship Heights (A08) Red line A Route,
The Hecht Company: Friendship Heights (A08) Red line A Route,
The block formally occupied by Woodward And Lothrops north building, I think its Merrott Hotel now: Metro Center (A01, C01) Red, Blue, Orange lines.
The Shops At Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport: National Airport (C10) Blue, Yellow lines
John
Fashion Centre at Pentagon City (C09) also has direct access into the station. I didn't know about the others at Friendship Heights.
Thanks,
mark
I need to get out more often.
Speaking of that, I plan to do a road trip to Washington on Saturday 10 06 2003 when I pickup commuter tickets for the Bay Bridge. I will shoot pictures of the construction on the G Route Blue line extension and the New York Avenue station. Will post link to images in new thread
John
Thanks,
Mark
p.s.---Florida's looking real good right now
Thank you no, I am quite happy right here.
John
Fulton Mall - Downtown Brooklyn
A,C,G to Hoyt-Schermerhorn
2,3,4,5,M,N,R,W to Court St-Boro Hall
M,N,Q,R To DeKalb Avenue (Juniors Cheesecake This Stop)
2,3 To Hoyt Street
2,3,4,5 To Nevins St
Kings Plaza (Flatbush Ave/Ave U) 2 to Brooklyn College-Flatbush Ave (station from Lucy and the Loving Cup Episode) then change to B41 or Q 35 Buses or A To Broad Channel then S to Beach 116th St-Rockaway Park then Q35 Bus
Both cover the same basic facts, but the "juicy" part is the conflict between Bob Diamond and a former subordinate Arthur Melnick. Diamond is head of the Brooklyn Historic Railway Association (BHRA) with long standing plans to run a line from Red Hook into downtown Brooklyn. Arthur Melnick leads the Brooklyn City Streetcar Company, Inc (BCSC) and has proposed the park line, with parts overlapping BHRA's plan, esp. on Atlantic Ave and to Borough Hall. The two seem to dislike each other greatly, which is probably not good news for anyone wanting to see trolleys again in Brooklyn.
Bob Diamond's trolleys are at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, where he is behind in the rent.
I'd include the articles but I don't know of any website.
The Park Slope Paper, 12/1/03
Park Slppe Courier, 12/1/03
The picture opportunities by the Brooklyn & Manhattan bridges are beyond comparison for tourists and residents alike (reminds me of Seattle's waterfront trolley) The downtown Brooklyn folks were looking for a way to get people from the subways to the park without overwhelming Brooklyn Heights streets - well, this is it!
1. Red Hook-Atlantic Av-Borough Hall
2. This one could either be a one way service along the waterfront or down Jay Street or Adams Street. Or it could be a loop service. I think a loop service would be best b/c it would serve more areas, but would involve more construction.
Fulton Ferry Landing-Atlantic Av-Borough Hall-DUMBO-Fulton Ferry Landing
Would a loop service in one direction work, or would it be better in 2 directions?
I think the park trolley would be the ideal start and the Red Hook waterfront could be one of the added destinations, as well as Diamond's goal of reaching Grand Army Plaza.
Maybe in my lifetime....
What ya think bout that?
Start from Red Hook, along the waterfront to Atlantic, then down the Atlantic Ave TUNNEL to exit at Boerum Pl, then north past the Transit Museum & Borough Hall, and eventually east towards Vanderbilt Ave, then to GAP. All of this predated the waterfront park idea, and (unfortunately) would be very expensive and financially unsound without heavy sponsorship/subsidies, something Bob Diamond could never organize.
Who'll put streetcars inside park?
Frank Hicks
Frank Hicks
I think it's sad that none of them folks can or want to work together. it's pretty selfish, actually...
He's put his heart into his trolley line, but after 10 years he doesn't have the financing in place that would make it viable. Every other non-profit knows how important fund raising is.
I wish the two would just find a way to work together and use each other's strengths - AM for organizing, Bob D. for the "vision thing". You can still work together and hate each other right? Just like a marriage!
:0)
Or does the original poster mean public employees instead of civil employees?
Michael
Washington, DC
Conversely, we still have only a few Dual Modes operating to Penn, after what? two years? This doesn't bode well for them.
An interesting question comes to mind: At different times of the day, which would be quicker to get from Penn Station to Woodside, the 1/2/3/9 to the 7, or the next LIRR train out of NYP?
Consider the 5:44 Port Jeff to Penn. It gets in at 7:20. Considering all of the reverse flow and single track issues, the fastest you could get it out to Port Jeff for another rush hour trip inbound would be for probably a 9:00 AM departure -- which would arrive around 10:30 -- way too late for most commuters. So for every two (or really every three -- if you consider reserves and write-offs) you can get one rush hour trip. (On occasion, the DM's have been sent out to Freeport to cover the late morning Freeport to Penn express trips when that equiptment is unavailable).
They've got 4 rush hour Dual modes now. I don't think you'll ever see more than one or two above that. Plus, you'd have to take away an M1/3/7 slot into Penn to fit it in.
I don't understand why there isn't yet off-peak and weekend DM service (other than some holiday specials). My best guess is that it's a reliablity issue.
CG
Why? Why not one locomotive and a control cab, as on the straight diesels?
I have never seen more than one Loco on a Metro North Train, and it is always on the North End, with a Cab Car on the South!
Do they come in with two motors, or do sme trains have only one?
Elias
Arriving from the east on Track 20, M-7's. Doors closed and when leaving, glanced over to Track 16 and a Port Washington train of M-7's were taking on passengers.
Pull into Jamaica on Track 7 and arriving on Track 6 for the connection was a Far Rockaway train of..........M-7's !!
Since I was reading the paper, I didn't notice any trains heading into NYP, but only noticed one set of M-1/3's. This was kind of unusual, but a harbinger of what's to come when the M-1's ranks will be thinned as M-7's become the dominant rolling stock.
Also, I spoke with my LIRR friend who tells me the delivery of M-7's will slow down a bit in January as Metro North's M-7's are due for delivery. I asked if the Metro North's M-7's will differ from the LIRR's. He said there will be some things that will differ. ASC is of them.
Bill "Newkirk"
Chock Full O' Nuts
While I was at Brighton Beach, I noticed some strange train movements. There was a parked Q express on the N/B local track the entire time. At one point an out of service Q local coming from Sheepshead Bay came in on the N/B express track and stayed there for a while. Next train in from Sheepshead Bay was a Q express which came in on the S/B local track. Finally, another Q express from Sheepshead Bay came in on the S/B express track. That train contained my sought after poster. It being pretty cold, I returned on this express to Sheepshead Bay and decided to let them worry about what they were doing.
do they open sundays??
With this being the holiday season, you better believe it. Also check out the holiday model train display.
Bill "Newkirk"
how much is the price this time??
Memoirs of paying $5 per numberplate in the year 2000.
Beat you to the punch? Just hope we don't beat and punch you.
(^_^)
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/nyc-mta1203,0,7313581.story?coll=ny-nynews-headlines
$5-6 per ride mabee more.
If the MTA nyc transit was a privatly run self funding corporation, they would have moved decades ago to upgrade their technology infrastucture to reduce labor costs, run shorter trains when passenger loads warrented etc.
No tooken booths at 95% of the stations. OPTO and ZPTO on some lines. The subway real estate and retail opurtunities would be maximized.
Today's MTA is ineffecient operation using 50 year old technology.
They have tried to reduce some waste such as tooken booths at many stations. Unfortunitly the TWU spread a fear compaign. As I predicted crime has not increased at automated fare controls. The only improvement would to be to install IP based digital camera's linked to central control center to deter swipe sellers. If anyone is interested the swipe seller could not sell enough swiped to make the booth closing unprofitable
If the MTA were a privately held company, they would have cut back weekend service and made Metro North nothing more than a commuter line.
Which is fine, except that a year ago he claimed that the MTA was rolling in money, and did not require the fare increase we already have.
His is right the second time. The MTA (and the City of New York and other agencies) covered over its true financial position until Pataki and the state legislature were re-elected. The idea that the fare increase was not required was nothing but political pandering.
I have a question to ask you and the rest of subtalk. Not to be a ass or anything but, do you think it was political pandering when the MTA decided to keep its finances secluded until Paturkey and the rest of the SOB's in legislation was elected?
What I feel is that they could of came foward with the true financial problems beforehand, and then had more time to fix the budget problem so we wouldn't have to hear this.
Let's discuss citywide service cuts...then people will finally give them the money they need.
We need to begin to adress productivity enhancements and better deployment of resorces. full length trains that are half empty and come so infrequently that anyone who can afford it takes a cab is rediculous.
For all those who say breaking apart 4 car(linked bar) units and putting them back together can't be done should run the number on how much money could be saved and how service could be improved overnight
I think this budget thing is sort of the cornerstone for the deffered maintenance era comeback.
Might as well put off fare increases, borrow money, defer maintenance, and let the system go to hell -- then put through a massive fare increase that is far higher than it would otherwise have had to be. After all, people will make as much noise about a five percent increase as about a 33 percent, 50 percent, or 100 percent increase, the historically typical amounts.
However, based on the opinions of everyone, rather than those who make the most noise, that is a mistake. They should have gradually raised the fare, and kept taxes a little higher, in the boom. We'd have less debt and a less underfunded pension.
I think Subtalk should regard these words as whats to come in the next 10 years.
::Visions a R62/A covered in graffiti::
People have to stand up and object.
No they should have gradually upgraded the system over the past 50 year to make it more effecient and more economical to operate. The system currently operate like it has all the money in the world to spend.
5 steps for the MTA to get it's finaces in order
I) Focus it's capitol plan on projects that finace themselves through reduced operating expences.
EX: 1) platform cameras and subway car pgrades to support in cab flat panel monitors to reduce train crews from two to one.
2) upgrading signaling system to support the above
3) greater use of hybrid buses and articulated buses
4) Upgrading stations in manhattan to ADA standards and eliminating costly duplicate bus routes
5) slow the pace of cosmetic station rehabilitation and focus on bring stations into a good state of functional repair
6) deploy technology to reduce the myrad of layers of usesless outdated management.
- automated bus monitoring and train montoring. updated business practices, eCRM software etc
II. run the apropiate level of service for the aproiate time of day.
- Shorter trains at night and on weekends on some lines with one man crews
- Part the artics in the garage at night and run the most effecient bus.
III. Work to eliminate terrible union work rules such as the one that prohibits bus driver from picking up buses at depots other then their home depot even for voluntary overtime shifts(subway shuttles). Driving buses in from other bouroughs when the local depot has dozens of buses sitting around is a crime.
IV. reduce unneeded staf such as most station agents, ride checkers etc as their jobs are obsolete if the proper technology upgrades are in place
Promote greater retail sales and marketing withing the subway.
Contract out the official soda, chips and other products sold in the subway. Lease out newsstands to one national vendor(7-11, hudson news etc) Ever Mcdonalds you go to sells only coke. WHY? coke pays mcdonalds for the exclusivity deal.
Subway riders are very valuable to marketers. MAke the most of this non fare revenue
II.
1. The way the contract is designed (and yes, it's a hodgepodge, but no, it's not likely to change because it has to be agreed to by BOTH parties, one of which has no reason to want to change it), OPTO doesn't save very much money. Moreover, cutting and adding cars to train consists, while it might save some money on wear-and-tear and inspections, costs money in "switching" crews who have to add/remove the cars. NYCT has found it's just not worth it.
2. This is really a BusTalk issue, but I'll say that if a depot is served entirely by articulated buses during the day (a situation that hasn't happened yet, but it might somewhere along the line) it doesn't make sense to keep a second fleet of standard-size buses (with different parts requirements) around to run at night. Besides, there aren't very many buses running overnight, so there isn't much money to be saved there anyway.
III.
I see the point, but again, these are changes that have to be proposed by management (because there's no way the Union would) and agreed to by the Union. Does anyone here REALLY see that happening?
IV.
1. Automatic passenger counters are available. I've yet to hear of one that works well enough to use, and I don't know how well they work as collectors of running time data, which is also a necessary function that Traffic Checkers perform. As for Station Agents, NYCT has begun reducing their numbers.
2. The only problems I can see involve clutter and litter. Those are reasons behind the removal of many newsstands and other concessions during the 1980s and the subsequent redesign of many newsstands and concessions.
3. Why not? I wonder what MTA Real Estate & Concessions would have to say about this idea.
David
There have been substantial productivity gains (as an economist, not a politician, would define them -- ie. not wage and benefit cuts) in some areas, such as Car Equipment and MOW. These departments have reduced their employment by close to 1.5 percent per year compounded over the period. And they aren't doing the same work as in 1986, they are doing MORE work, based on MDBF, track condition, etc. Thus, their productivity gains are much higher than that.
Other departments have done less well in reducing staff, and overall NYCT employment is projected to be at about the same level in 2007 as in 1986. Of course, the number of bus trips and train trips is probably much higher, and this would have to be adjusted for.
When you are talking about front line personnel, it is hard to distinguish a productivity gain from a service increase or reduction. Station agents in the booths don't have to sell as many rides as they used to, thanks to the machines. Is that a productivity gain to increased quality, because the agents are now free to give more customer service and security? Or a wasted investment, because they are sitting there with nothing to do? Same thing with conductors. If both quality and cost go down, it isn't a productivity gain. You need the SAME work with less people, or MORE work with the same people. Note the part time booth closing issue for the public's perception. I don't agree with it, but there it is.
True, but it is easier in transit than in some service industries. You have the number of trains or buses in service, their reliability, etc.
"3. See 1. and 2., though there isn't enough experience yet with hybrid buses to determine whether they'll save money"
That is not true. The MTA's own pilot study using ORION VI showed in overall reduction of cost of operation and maintance. The study went on to say that improvements in staff training and a mass produced vs prototype product should yeild a further reduction in costs.
An excerpt from the article that was online back in august in an industry trade jurnal but unfortunitly i do not have the URL. The article title was "lessons learned NYCT hybrid electric fleet"
"Dana Lowell is the assistant chief maintenance officer, research and development, at New York City Transit. He recently spoke at APTA's Bus and Paratransit conference, detailing the status and testing results of a fleet of hybrid diesel-electric buses currently in operation.
Fuel economy
One of the reasons NYCT wanted to test the hybrids is that they offer both emissions reductions and fuel economy, a combination not available with CNG buses. The hybrid buses averaged 2.65 mpg, which was 10 percent higher than the test group of diesel buses, though the results for the hybrids showed significant seasonal shifts in fuel economy. During the summer months, fuel economy varied only slightly to comparable diesels, but fuel economy in the winter was 16 percent higher for the hybrid buses.
The results were attributed to two factors. First being the air conditioning, which can take between 15 and 20 percent of the total energy used on the bus in the summertime.
Second was the possible thermal limitations of the batteries. The Orion buses use regenerative braking, which captures the bus' own kinetic energy to help power the batteries. However, as the batteries heat up, power is not as easily distributed to and from the batteries. Also, BAE Systems, which designed the HybriDrive™ system used in the buses, limited how much energy could be put back into the batteries as they heated up to help the system recover and cool the batteries. BAE has addressed this situation with the latest Orion VII hybrid design, and early testing by NYCT has already shown a better fuel economy is being achieved, though some seasonal performance differences, at least to a lesser degree, have not yet been ruled out.
During the evaluation period, the price of NYCT's low-sulfur diesel fuel averaged $1.03 per gallon. The Orion V diesel buses had a fuel cost of $0.474 per mile and the NovaBUS RTS diesel buses averaged $0.426 per mile. The older hybrid-electric group averaged $0.390 per mile, while the newer group averaged $0.387.
Maintenance and availability
Maintenance costs for the hybrids were tested against the diesel group of NovaBUS vehicles from the same Manhattanville depot and recorded higher maintenance costs and lower system availability overall. Two main factors were associated with this.
First, because the buses were a pre-production fleet, there was some trouble in the beginning with documenting and identifying parts. Once the faulty part was identified, there was no spare parts inventory, so repairs were delayed as parts were sent in from the manufacturer.
NYCT has also made an increasing effort to train its mechanics and getting them more involved. Of the 246 buses at the Manhattanville depot, 236 were manufactured by NovaBUS, which caused an unfamiliarity in the system among the mechanics on the Orion hybrids and increased the labor hours spent troubleshooting problems.
Both the newness of the technology and the learning curve of the mechanics resulted in lower reliability and availability of the buses. NYCT has a standard availability of its fleet of 85 percent with a 15 percent spare factor. At times the hybrids approached that level, but did not match the reliability of the diesels. However, based on the increasing experience of the mechanics with the system and Orion's improvements in the next generation Orion VII, there is increasing confidence at NYCT that the hybrids will approach that of the diesel buses."
At night and on weekends NYC should attempt to use these buses as much as possible to reduce operating costs. This of course would mean the end to a line belongs to one depot and a switch to the philosophy.
At the moment (December 6, 2003), NYCT has ELEVEN hybrid buses. There is an order for well over a hundred more hybrid buses but NONE are in yet (Orion hasn't finished delivering the Orion VII CNGs). According to the article, maintenance costs on the test buses were HIGHER than on the standard RTS buses and bus availability was LOWER on the test buses. The only savings was in fuel. Is the savings in fuel going to outweigh the additional maintenance cost? Maybe with a larger order and greater familiarity with the equipment the maintenance cost will go down as NYCT predicts, but all of this remains to be seen. (And I'm a fan of hybrid technology -- it isn't that I'm a Luddite.)
Please tell me how eleven buses are supposed to cover all overnight service that NYCT operates, even allowing for what I said in my previous posting about there not being much service overnight. Besides, allowing any bus to operate on any route on the weekends would cost more money, as someone (whether a Shifter, a Maintainer, or the Operator assigned to a given run) has to move the bus between the "foreign" depot and the route, which would usually be a longer distance than between the "home" depot and the route. For instance, on the B3 the route begins right outside Ulmer Park Depot, and that's where the route is assigned -- running the route out of, say, Fresh Pond Depot, because (say) that's where the hybrid buses are, would cost well over an hour of additional vehicle time in each direction to get the bus to and from Fresh Pond, plus whatever the pay hours end up costing (could be an hour plus, could be less, could be more, depending on the individual run).
David
"Bus tracking is something NYCT's extremely interested in, but the last contract didn't work out (the system would spot buses in the East River). "
The MTA was ahead of the curve of what the technology could do in the early 1990'. Recent improvements in the last 10 years have overcome many of the problems and at a much lower cost. Wireless technologies have come a long way. The previous technology relied on GPS satalites only. New technologies can combine multiple standard protocals to better track buses. technologies such as GPS, 802.11 b, g, 3 g wireless technologies can be seemlessly used to track, monitor and dispatch buses.
"II.
OPTO doesn't save very much money. Moreover, cutting and adding cars to train consists, while it might save some money on wear-and-tear and inspections, costs money in "switching" crews who have to add/remove the cars. NYCT has found it's just not worth it"
A penny saved is a penny earned. Improved proccesses can overcome most of these hurdles. Trains that are linked up in 4 and 5 car units could be designed to separate in terminal with a series of steps performed by the train crew. The two half length trains could not depart from tje terminal with a new crew, one person on each train.
In the past the cars were all singles and the proceeses used made OPTO not worth it.
"This is really a BusTalk issue, but I'll say that if a depot is served entirely by articulated buses during the day (a situation that hasn't happened yet, but it might somewhere along the line) it doesn't make sense to keep a second fleet of standard-size buses (with different parts requirements) around to run at night. Besides, there aren't very many buses running overnight, so there isn't much money to be saved there anyway"
Go stand on the corner of 23rd st at 3 am. You will see articulated buses running empty back and forth. The depots these buses come out of have plenty of 40ft buses sitting idle at that time of night. In a system the size of NYCT we are taliking millions of dollars in savings. The 40ft buses get better gas millage
"1. Automatic passenger counters are available. I've yet to hear of one that works well enough to use, and I don't know how well they work as collectors of running time data, which is also a necessary function that Traffic Checkers perform. As for Station Agents, NYCT has begun reducing their numbers."
Running times on subways would be handles by the upgraded signaling system and CBTC. We all know the timetables for it's deployment
On the bus side, the bus monitoring and dispatching system would handle runing time issues
As for passenger counting. Traffic checkers are not very accurate for this. For one in order to have very accuare data you need to have a large sample of days and times then the current system allows. Monhts not weeks of data are needed
Metrocard data if combined and analysted with load sensors on buses and trains would give you a more accurate picture of ridership levels over the course of the year. All the new buses have computer subsystems that are capable of collecting such data plus the new rail cars have them as well.
"
2. The only problems I can see involve clutter and litter. Those are reasons behind the removal of many newsstands and other concessions during the 1980s and the subsequent redesign of many newsstands and concessions.
3. Why not? I wonder what MTA Real Estate & Concessions would have to say about this idea.
David"
Of course many stations with tight platforms and fare controls can not support retail. Many can. The MTA should go one step further and concider how they can incorportate more retail when they are embarking on a station renovation. Spaces could be carved out for vending and ATM machines on platforms along the broadway line for instance
As the MTA shuts down many tooken booths space becomes available at many fare controls. Litter is definitly an issues but people are bringing food and beverages aboard trains anyway from the outside and illegal vendors are selling on platforms especially in the summer time. A unitified contract would bring in alot more money then the small vendors.
When all of the systems required to support automatic passenger counting and running time tracking are in place, I'm all for testing to see whether Traffic Checkers can be replaced. It's a years-long process, though, that could be speeded only so much if at all (there's a finite pile of money and besides there are just so many parts of the transit system that can be worked on at the same time without affecting rush hour service).
I think the concession ideas have merit, and I encourage "voiceofreason" to take them up with the MTA.
David
That's happening already. Watch what's going to happen at Roosevelt/74th.
No, 100th Street Depot (M101/M102/M103) is ALL articulated. It has no standard buses, and having a few on hand just for overnight service (which has to stay "out there" for the morning rush anyway) would be a complete waste.
The 2 and 4 car trains of the 70's was due to defered maintance.
Most A division train sets are linked in 5 car sets and many b division trains are linked in 4 car sets
Running the apropiate level of service when needed saves money and allows that money to be spent on other area's.
The MTA's current policies drive up operating costs which comes out of our pocket's in terms of fares and tax dollars. The straphanges only platform is to reduce the fare and raise state funding
What is state funding? out tax dolars.
The current 5 year capitol plan puts too much money into cosmetic improvements and not enough money into functional improvements that will reduce the cost of operating the system. You would not borrow money over your head to put down marble floors in you house, but you would to fix a leaking roof or to add another apartment to rent
What do you propose?
Running half-length trains at double the frequency will require twice the number of crew. Crew are extremely expensive--there's no cost savings to be had here.
In addtion to saving money the improved service would attract more riders.
Why? Many people avoid the subways at nigh and on weekend due to the long wait times and the inconvient transfers. Many friends of mine who live in manhattan take the subways all over the place during the week all day but cab it on the weekends due to the long waits.
Most lines even the broadway local and express could use 4 car more frequent service for most parts of the day on the weekend.
One 11 car train under OPTO: one person.
Two 5 car trains running under OPTO: two people.
2 > 1.
In order to slightly improve the MTA's financial image:
1. Buy fewer cars. The MTA seems to be buying hundreds of new cars, spending billions of dollars on rail cars when the need to replace older fleets is questionable. Take this new R160 order. I hear that it would replace everything that still doesn't have a doorbell on the B division, and the R44's. I say that the R32's are in better shape than any of the other cars built between 1964 and 1974, so they should be around until at least the mid-2020's, and leave them on the lines they're running on, too. Don't send them to an "Old car dumping ground," which, with the exception of the R143's, is what the BMT Eastern Division has been for the past few decades, it also includes any line that runs an 8-car train. I'm not completely anti-new. I'm not saying that New York City doesn't need new cars, I'm just saying that NYC doesn't need so many new cars.
This should save them hundreds of millions of dollars.
Then, I don't know how much money is wasted on underworked, overpaid "executives," but I think a few "higher-ups" should get pay cuts. They can complain until the cows come home, but who's more important, the average rider, or some big fat cat who wipes his you-know-what with those new $20 bills?
Just my 2¢.
Cutting 100 managers making $100,000 a year saves only $10 million a year, though, a drop in the bucket. I support doing something like that, but realize that the impact is minimal.
Deferring the R160 order might make sense. Write MTA and tell 'em.
Ron, this is your non-expert opinion at work again. Can you say Federal Dollars?
AEM7
Yeah, but then the rank and file stopped showing up to work, or showing up sober, and service collapsed. So they had to hire all these superviors to look over their shoulders.
In the private sector, they eliminated layers of management by making line workers responsible for making sure their own work gets done. If it doesn't, the workers are fired. This led to a huge reduction in middle management in the 1980s and early 1990s. Could it work here? Let's just say it would require a culture change.
The way this was implimented was that the business began to have a better idea of what was going on through use of technology tools that allowed upper layers of management to better assess who is doing his job and who is not.
Up and down the line the MTA needs to impliment such systems at every level not just on the operations side
In any case, why have their been no arrests of these vandals? A few kids with their names and faces in the newspaper would go a very long way. I hope we are not going back to the '80's when nobody gave a crap.
Bill "Newkirk"
>:(
P.S.: I just corrected the title spelling.
You can spread a strawberry glaze on the end of a flashlight or baton...
Landing men on the moon and replacing eyeglasses with laser surgery are solutions to technical problems. Vandalism of public property, and the lack of civic pride that helps it to flourish, are problems of law enforcement, and, ultimately, of human evil and sinfulness, and are much more difficult to solve.
I speak with experience. I am undergoing chemotherapy for cancer in the lymph nodes now. Gotta be careful about being in public!!!
Apparently you should spend more time wondering that. We have far fewer diseases now that any time in history and far less shit in the street.
Urine is normally sterile, and does not carry these things, and most of these things cannot survive very long in an open environment.
OK so it grosses you out, big deal.
No there are no security cameras in all of the corners. Given some of the creatures that I have seen in the subways, they would probably not know the difference if they pissed their pants.
As long as the subway is going to be a safe (and somewhat warm) haven for the homeless, they will have to do their deeds where ever they might.
Elias
This page has the chemistry as well as some fascinating history. I would recommend the whole site for interesting reading.
.....
Well, actually, the extreme ends of EVERY platform, including elevated ones, appear to be "watering holes", or pits are more like it.
Some people don't have a pot to pee in.
When I worked for the Franciscians at 31st Street as the building supt. (my last job in NYC before moving to North Dakota) the Aluminium doors to the lower church were being rotted out by urine, probably from people attracted to the bread line.
I got an estimate for replacing the four doors with staineless steel doors, the price came in at $9,000 the same abount that my dad spent for his first house on Long Island in 1950. This does not look like a big figure now, but it was big enough back in 1982.
Elias
For example, in the northeast Amtrak used trains from NJTransit, MARC, and SEPTA.
They have nothing but Bombardier multi-level ("Lozenge" or "Sausage") cars. No single-level equipment.
Horizon cars are single-level Bombardier-built coaches, smooth sides, vestibules at both ends. Their design can be ultimately traced back to Pullman-Standard equipment built for the LIRR in 1953, 1955, 1956 -- believe it or not. Bombardier bought the designs from P-S years ago.
The Amtrak Horizon cars are numbered in the 50000 series. They are similar to much of the loco-hauled commuter equipment on NJ Transit, Boston's MBTA, and Montreal's AMT.
Some of the Horizon cars were also used as extra/backup trains on the Pacific Surfliner route during the holiday weekend...with P32-8BWH's (normally used as yard switchers in LA) for motive power!!!!!
October 27th, 2004
First Subway Ride Reenactment
Recreation of the first ride on the NYC Subway system from City Hall Station in Lower Manhattan by Mayor McClellan and other New York notables. Distinguished guests would include Governor Pataki and Mayor Bloomberg.
Historic Fleet/Nostalgia Train Excursions
Plans to run the historic fleet throughout four boroughs will showcase examples of transit equipment from each major production era in the last century on October 27.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
I don't know at what point the "no wooden cars in subway passenger service, ever" rule was adopted.
#3 West End Jeff
The re-creation of the opening day ceremony will be by invitation only.
Disappointing, yes but unfortunately a necessity.
It’s a non-thinking mindset, starting with the bunker mentality of Giuliani that has propagated such myths.
Trains pass through the station every day. A small device attached, say, under a seat, or in between cars (yes, tell me that TOs and CRs are going to systematically inspect every car, with eagle eyes looking for an exta lump when they have 90 seconds to clear the station is going to happen) could cause a lot of mayhem.
In the war on terror, the terrorists win. We let ’em every time.
Wild horses couldn't drag me away
Wild, wild horses we'll ride them someday.
You don't know the half of it. It would be VERY hard to get R-36WF cars to the Market-Frankford El. And then good luck trying to run them there with the proprietary 3rd rail. :)
That type of third rail is called Wilgis-Sprague Third Rail. Originally developed for the New York Central electrification of 1906,
it was used on the orginal Market Elevated in Philadelphia, also of 1906 vintage.
It's also used on the Docklands light rail in London. Why, I don't know.
It's advantages are that since the shoe rides on the bottom of the rail, not the top, snow and ice are not as big a problem as with regular third rail.
This sounds terrific, but how are they going to do it? Wouldn't these trains run slower, therefore slowing the regular trains down? Also, I wonder what kind of security would be on the train, God forbid vandals try to strike nostalgic cars. -Nick
David
Koi
Chuck Greene
Then they will probably give them to you in person on the train. But if you are really scared, call the phone number that is on the order form and also in our very own upcoming events section.
FOX!
L.A. maybe says Newkirk Plaza David.
Sallam, did you stop the film crew from entering the LA Metro station? Just kidding, I think the scenes were filmed during the LA transit strike as a theory that we didn't see as much as we train buffs like to see.
Sorry about that. And thanks Brian for your help.
WELCOME BACK TRAIN DUDE
IIRC, there are only 2 R-40M/R-42 sets assigned to the L, so where the heck did the third one come from???
Robert
The 3 car rule would be a problem too!
Did they have the 3 car rule while any Standards were still in service? I thought that rule goes way back. I guess it just coulden't be applied to the Standards.
Hey, it worked.
I switched on my pop-up ad suppressor to take care of that.
Anybody else notice this?
Secondly, I highly doubt David P. would put ads on SubTalk, at least without prior notice. You probably have some gator-type ad serving program embedded in your computer.
-Harry
Have you tried the free program Adaware to get rid of whatever spyware is plaguing you?
Ben F. Schumin :-)
But it is being exploted by spammers.
Look for "Messenger" in the service list, double-click on it. Under the "General Tab" set "Service Status" to "Stop" if it's running, then choose "Disabled" from the "Startup type" pulldown.
I know you know, Hank, but others might like to know how to get rid of this pest.
Administrative Tools is not in System, it's right in Control Panel. If you have the category based Control Panel, it's under Performance and Maintenance (the one with the pie chart icon).
But otherwise, that would work.
I suggest installing a program to search and remove spyware. My personal favorite is Spybot Search and Destroy which you can download at http://www.safer-networking.org/ or http://security.kolla.de
Once you install it make sure you download the updates and then run a scan. I bet you will be surprised what you find.
Another poster suggested that you disable "instant messenger", however this is not 100% correct. Windows XP/2000 has a built in messenging service; its purpose was to be for system admins to send messages to users on a network (i.e., the mail server is down, etc). This has been exploited so that spammers can use the messenging service to randomly send popups to computers. From what you described this is not the kind of popup you are receiving, so disabling windows messenger probably won't help your situation. Also, windows messenger is not the same as MSN messenger.
I need to disable instant messenger, too. I don't need the spam coming in that way...
I hope your Thanksgiving was good...
I thought your schedule was too busy for Subtalk. You should just subscribe to Jersey Mike's post-counting service. I think it's free...for now..:0)
Transit Authorities are allllll the same....
First Sea Beach Fred calls the two of us the same entity and now this.
Are you charging Jersey Mike a royalty every time he reports posting numbers?
But maybe I should.
Eh! That pop-up ad was a wake up call for Ron.
Same ad each time - the lady in the bikini selling Viagra.
I believe Dr. Z deals with facial cosmetic procedures.
Dr. Uranus may have inherited Dr. Tusch's practice.
What part of the 3rd Avenue El would a train pull in on the right side of an island platform of a 4-track structure, with 1 track across the platform and 2 above the platform, which turn off to the right and stub end shortly after - and the 2 tracks on the lower level turn sharply to the left.
Also - where the heck would you be on the rightmost of 3 tracks, where the middle track just ends abruptly, without bumping block - and then there is platform?
One more - where is there a 4-track open cut with wierd-looking commuter rail cars that passes under it? What railroad was this? Metro-North? NYW&B?
No idea about the second one.
Last one is just north of Fordham Road, where the El crossed today's Metro North Harlem-New Haven Line (formerly NY Central and New Haven RRs).
Bergen cutoff?
Filmed on location inside, outside and on the side (sorry, couldn't get on top).
http://www.trainweb.org/oaksmodelrr/Video/Index.html
About a crewman in the pilothouse as the ferry Andrew Barberi crashed into a maintenance pier.
Michael
Washington, DC
CG
The kicker to the story is that this department is supervised by the Commissioner of the DOT - Iris Weishal a/k/a Mrs Charles Schumer !
Well then he deserved the beating.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29790-2003Dec2.html
apparently the Herndon City Council is responsible for effectively killing the proposed project. a quote: "Now the project is dead, and it may be 25 years until we see rail to Dulles."
Actually, if Bush would push for more funding for this project, the Herndon City Council would not be a factor. Plenty of excess highway funding – time to divert it for once.
Bummer. Back to the drawing board. It also means that Reagan Airport remains the easiest to reach and use.
Meanwhile, the Blue Line Extension and the New York Av station should be less than a year away from opening.
Part of the reason MBTA got money to expand its system is that Boston is the capitol of Massachusetts. MBTA rail is in the faces of legislators and staff every day.
If NYC were the capitol city of New York State, the New York City subway would have gotten more $$$ for expansion over the years...
WMATA needs billions of dollars to build the Dulles Line-billions that other subways are in need of also- they need to get in line like every other transit system if they want federal dollars.
Boston got federal funding because at the time it was given, the Congressman from Boston was also the House Speaker (Tip O'Neill).
AEM7
Even NYC had to rethink some of its core services. Recall that, in the 1960s, express tracks were added to the IND 6th Av line.
Although there is a school of thought that people will always hold doors, no matter how frequently you run the train, so the maximum practical capacity on a two-track line would always be around 25 tph, unless you had some way to restrain people physically from boarding when it is time for the train to leave. Platform doors is one way of achieving this (since it is a lot harder to hold a platform door than a train door, as there is no risk of dragging, a platform door could afford to be a lot more aggressive).
AEM7
Do/Did they do what they were supposed to do?
I expect to see all 23 miles of this line to be built.
John
Regards,
Jimmy
-One post says the Promo list is thrown out, another says it stands.
-One post says O/C people will be called in the spring or summer, the other says not for 3 years.
-One post says lots of T/O's are retiring, another says this isn't true.
I respect and appreciate everyone's contributions here, but can those who took the T/O exam really get reliable information here on subtalk?
Also, two questions I have:
How many T/O's are retiring soon?
Apparently many people did well on the promo exam...but how many people actually took it, vs. the O/C exam?
Again, it is nice to get information on here. But I do wonder sometimes what is fact vs. rumor sometimes. -Nick
The test was easy but so was the last one and that did not get thrown out.
These lists take time so even with the answer key expect a wait.
As for T/O retiring most would like ot BUT they do not have the time or age. Most of the stuff about T/O retiring involves assuming that Pataki will sign the 20/50 retirement plan (fat chance). There really are not that many people that have the time and age right now. They hired a ton of people in 1982-1984 and not all of them will be 55 when they get their 25 years in so expect little movement.
The other source of T/O openings were rumors that the Manny B reopening will create jobs well as I have been saying it would not and there was a net loss of 24 road jobs from the current pick to the next and some cuts in work train jobs too.
Except for accidents and service delays you will find a low accuracy on Subtalk. In time you will find who gives useful info in what areas and make your own determinations. When you get the job you will see that what made sense from the outside no longer does on the inside. Several people here lost their attitudes about bad MTA employees when they got inside and saw that you often get forced to make things work when they shouldn't.
If you do get in, send me an email, I am a shop steward and can get you some valuable information that will help you when you are road extra.
Good luck
And then you'll lose your job. You may want to reconsider breaking loose the hell. Or don't take a job with the MTA.
If a C/R had taken the 2000 Open Competitive test for T/O and been hired, he/she would have needed to take a leave of absence from their current title. During their probationary year, if they decided they didn't like the job OR if something happened that would cause their firing, they would be able to return to their prior title. If something happened after that one year, they would effectively have no prior title to fall back to and would bee out of a job.
Now many believe that the promo list will be called first in addition to their getting extra points for prior service.
Ona promotional test in this title, your test score is 85% of your total score. The other 15% comes from seniority (and I don't remember the scale used), so: if two C/Rs both take the promotional test for T/O and both have a RAW score of 100 (everything correct), they start out with an 85. Now come the points for seniority - C/R A has one year in title and gets 4 points, C/R B has four years in title and gets 10 points. Even though their RAW scores were the same, their FINAL scores will be 89 and 95.
Now we look at the other possibility: same two C/Rs getting the same seniority points but scoring differently on the exam. C/R A gets a 90 on the exam, plus 4 points for a FINAL of 94, while C/R B gets an 83 on the exam plus 10 points for a FINAL of 93. C/R A, even though junior by two years, has outscored C/R B and gets a place on the list.
Where is the DCAS or NYCT announcement of this policy?
It is (was) on the Notice of Announcement.
If a promo gets a 99 and an O/C gets a 100 the O/C is called first. Thats the way NYCT wants it.
Civil Service Laws require the promotional list to be used first if both lists are established from the same test, no matter what Transit wants. Transit shot themselves in the foot when they gave the promotional test in 1998, so they could get the O/C T/O test; before they try to mess with the system again, they might actually think twice about it.
After that, for another twelve months, service will resume to North Station, using the new underground station. Busing will continue to Science Park and Lechmere. Then sometime in mid-2005, full service will resume to Lechmere using the new ramp up from North Station under to the existing elevated just south of the Charles River.
AEM7
How do you replace the Green Line with heavy rail. In the south and west direction, the trolleys exit the tunnels are run on the street. Are you going to convert all of that to subway (isolate ROWs, sink them into trenches, replace intersection crossings with overpasses, build new high-level stations, purchase new subway cars, install new signalling)?
Connect the D branch of the Green Line to a heavy rail downtown tunnel. Build a major transfer point at Kenmore Sq. Remove the E branch (or stub-end it at Prudential and provide a walk-way transfer to Copley).
It's actually easier than you think. Major works would be required in a number of places, but it's cheaper than the cost of continued overcrowding.
AEM7
Most stations on the downtown portion of the Green Line (Kenmore to Park) are actually long enough to allow double-berthing of two-car trains (i.e. 4 car lengths in total). So the platform length is somewheres around 300 ft, or 3 subway-car lengths. The real problem is some of the curvatures in the tunnel is too curvy for either platforming by heavy rail vehicles or for even operating long cars. Those are likely to be the major expense of doing up the Green Line for heavy rail service.
Then there is the question of what you do while construction is taking place. Theoretically, you could operate the existing trolleys while you use posessions to straighten out curves, and then you could introduce a heavy rail vehicle with trolley poles that would platform at low level platforms (which would not be ADA compliant, by the way) as an interim measure while you raised the platforms one at a time.
AEM7
AEM7
It would releieve overcrowding on the Green Line between GC and Kenmore. There could also be a Blue-Red connection if a stop could be built at Park Street to connect to the Red Line and there would be a station right at the front steps of the State House.
Would you keep the green line heavy rail in the above ground sections, like the B, C, and D branches? If your not planning on making tunnels under Beacon and Comm ave, how would you make it efficient to work with the traffic? -Nick
Better start singing: Noel
Yakko: What are you doing, Wakko?
Wakko: I'm writing a letter a Santa, telling him what I want
for Christmas.
Yakko: Wait a minute -- hold the phone! That's not how you
spell `Santa'.
Wakko: It isn't?
Yakko: No; you've got it all wrong.
Wakko: Well, how do you spell it, then?
Yakko: To spell Santa's name
Is easy to do
You write S, A, N, T
And another A, too.
But no L, no L
Santa's name has no L
And he won't be too pleased
If you don't learn to spell.
Wakko: Jack and Jill went up the hill
To fetch water from a well
But when neither one could find it
Jill started to yell.
Dot : No well, no well
Can't believe there's no well!
We walked all the way here
And I'm mad, can't you tell.
Yakko: Captain Ahab took his crew
His harpoon and set sail
And he called out to ships
Ahab : Have you seen the white whale?
Crew : No whale, no whale
No, we ain't seen no whale
Man 1: Saw a couple of dolphins
Man 2: And a big yellowtail.
YW+D : If you've listened to this tune
Then you probably can tell
That you've heard it before
It's a song you know well.
Know well, know well
It's a song you know well
And we've ruined it completely
So we all say, "Oh well."
Oh well, oh well
We'll just say, "Fare thee well"
Merry Christmas to you
And a joyous Noël.
Take as many exams as you can, and thanks Ron!
Who would really use that transfer, as there's a better cross-platform one to A for people heading Downtown.
Arti
If you are at Metro Av, the G is useless as you have to transfer onto the L first.
#3 West End Jeff
www.forgotten-ny.com
The work couldn't be accomplished during the recent bus and rail strike because the MTA's own rail-grinding machine needs $1.3 million in repairs.
Rail grinding is really a preventative maintenance program for rails.
AEM7
On a very macro level, that is true. However, on a micro level, because the track isn't always perfectly straight or perfectly gauged, the railcar tend to snake from side to side seeking the path of least resistance (due to wear patterns in the rail, oscillation induced by switchwork or inperfect railwork, and out-of-round wheels).
The outside rail's inside aspect
"The gauge-corner of the rail"
contacts the railcar wheel's flange and forces the railcar to follow the curve.
Sort of. Actually the railcar starts off by oscillating off-center slightly towards the outside of the curve (i.e. flange into the gauge corner). Ideally, before the flange contacts the gauge corner, the contact point between the tread and the railhead (top of the rail)on the outside rail has shifted in such a way that a taller portion of the tread (closer to the flange) is contacting the gauge side of the railhead (closest to the flange). The opposite effect occurs on the inside rail, where the contact point is shifted away from the flange, allowing a narrower portion of the flange to contact the railhead. The effective difference in the diameter of the wheel at the contact points now guides the wheelset around the curve without the flange ever coming into contact with the gauge face of the rail.
Therefore, the points of friction include the top of the rail against the wheel itself as it is rolling, and the wheel flange to curved rail.
Unfortunately, this often happens, due to a combination of overspeed, badly maintained rail profiles, and badly maintained wheel profiles, and perhaps badly designed curves or reverse curvature where this sort of thing is bound to happen.
But that wasn't really the answer I was looking for. I was trying to point out that for a curved section of track to be perfectly tuned to allow no contact between the rail and the wheel, this can be done through cant (banking, or elevation), but this only works at a constant "optimal" speed for a vehicle of constant weight and wheel diameter. I guess if you made railcars out of diamond and put the entire track in air conditioned environment with subgrade that is balanced on a gyroscopic table, you might just be able to tune it...
One could, I suppose, "tune" the system to some degree by standardizing railcar design on that system (all cars have same weight, same ground pressure, same wheel design). Miami Metrorail's cars are all from one manufacturer and and Atlanta's MARTA cars are from one manufacturer; Washington Metrorail does that to some degree. New York is a mess by comparison.
I presume you mean wheel flange! Otherwise, we have levitation!
There are some good diagrams and explanations on this page in trainweb. Credit is due to Jersey Mike who first pointed me in the direction of this repository of railway technical information.
http://www.trainweb.org/railwaytechnical/whlbog.html
"oooh, it's a big nasty thing that makes a lot of sparks
and noise so that little lip thingy won't rub the other
thing anymore"
Sounds like they are instituting a rail grinding program to
provide gauge corner relief. Anyone out there familiar with
the line? Are these guarded curves?
How was the conductor able to see what he was doing with the rollsigns?
There were numeric codes for each available route. One set the code, pushed a button, and the train did the rest. Usually 100% successful, especially in the early days of these cars. Later on, one or two might not cycle and would have to be changed manually; but it sure beat changing all sixteen signs by hand.
WOW. I never knew such a thing existed!
Why don't the R-62s/68s have this feature?
Also there's a chance it didn't work out very well when some signs went just a little bit out of place on the preGOH 44s and 46s.
WOW. I never knew such a thing existed!
Why don't the R-62s/68s have this feature?
Photos include: U34CH; RL-1; FP7; B36-7; SW1200 (plus the one that became a BL-15); Geeps and FA-1 #615 (former LIRR Power Pack).
In a seperate section is a shot of overhauled PCC #2320.
Dan
Sharing IS Caring, bub. LOL
There were plenty of RedBird number plates on hand.
It isn't the R17 one (a/k/a Redbird in Air). It is the Whale version (the 2nd one in the series of 3 Art cards so far).
One thing to note - they want $19.95 for the item.
Someone stole the side and bulkhead destination sign boxes, as well as the taillight lenses.
The car does not have obligatory tuna stains........... yet.
I knew this teaser was more difficult than it looks.
TICK TOCK, clock is ticking, answer at 5 PM, gotta run to the hearing soon.
THE EXPRESS AND LOCAL MARKER LIGHTS ARE IN THE WRONG PLACES (express on the right side of the car, local on the left).
Huh?
The R-17 was delivered in Tuscan Red (which is represented in the poster) and ended its career in Redbird red.
It sold out; they aren't reordering.
Colonial : Moffat or Rockaway Ave and Bway (Chauncey St station)
RKO Bushwick (now under renovation), Loews Gates : Southwest side of Broadway near Gates Avenue station
Casino Theater : Bway and Dekalb Ave (Kosciuszko St. station)
Decatur Theater : Decatur and Bway (between Halsey and Chauncey St. stations : probably now demolished.
RKO Madison Theater (now a Liberty Dept. Store) Myrtle Avenue at Woodbine St. Ridgewood. You can see the west side of it from the Wyckoff Avenue platform on the M line. Graffiti is now much more prominent than the original "RKO Madison Theatre" lettering. You can see the progression of this in the BMT Myrtle Wyckoff Avenue photos on this site.
Another bldg, visible from Wyckoff Avenue platform, on northeast side of Wyckoff between Gates and Palmetto, used to be the Parthenon Theater.
RKO Bushwick (now under renovation),
The RKO Bushwick, an ornate theater sat in shambles for many years (decades?) at the Gates Ave station. Fires and water damage had done it's toll. Thankfully the theater looks great on the exterior as it is being completely refurbished. Unfortunately years of neglect have made the interior had to be gutted, but I think they have made apartments out of it. Here's a photo from April in a "before" shot, and an "after" shot in July. Currently it is even more progressed:
Loews Gates : Southwest side of Broadway near Gates Avenue station
Visable in this photo at Gates Ave:
Casino Theater : Bway and Dekalb Ave (Kosciuszko St. station)
I think this may be the big white building on the right visable in this photo. In the 70's and 80's this building was in total shambles, and painted red and white. I used to call it the "Candy-stripe building". It has also been refurbished into apartments:
RKO Madison Theater (now a Liberty Dept. Store) Myrtle Avenue at Woodbine St. Ridgewood. You can see the west side of it from the Wyckoff Avenue platform on the M line. Graffiti is now much more prominent than the original "RKO Madison Theatre" lettering. You can see the progression of this in the BMT Myrtle Wyckoff Avenue photos on this site.
The "Madison Theatre" painted sign is still fairly visable from Wyckoff, though getting less by the year. The theatre was originally a Vaudville theatre and very ornate inside. It was converted for movies, and survived into the 70's. In the late 70's or early 80's the Madison burned. After a theater it was a Consumers and an Odd-Lot. As Consumers, you could still make out the balcony and the layout of the theater. Click on the thumbnail below and look to the right of the tower for the remains of the "Madison Theatre" sign.
Another bldg, visible from Wyckoff Avenue platform, on northeast side of Wyckoff between Gates and Palmetto, used to be the Parthenon Theater.
Thank you for that! I always wondered about that building "at the Wyckoff Curve" (visable in the photo below, on the left). I always thought it was a theater, but never knew what, and wasn't sure. Do you know when it closed?
Commodore
I don't know when the Parthenon stopped showing movies. It was sometime between 1948 and 1961. There's a photo of a trolley at Myrtle and Wyckoff in the Smith and Kramer B Q Transit Book that shows the Parthenon still showing movies (a marquee with lettering on it is visible in the background). By fall 1961 it was a bowling alley on the ground floor. My mom and I would stop in there during my lunch break from first grade at nearby St. Brigid School, 438 Grove Street.
The Imperial Theater used to be at Irving and Dekalb Avenues. My uncle, now age 82, saw the Lugosi "Dracula" there as a kid. Later, it became a Robert Hall clothing store. When that same uncle of mine left the Armed Forces after WW II, he went there for some new civilian clothes.
I miss it also. I think it survived until the late 90's, although had been abandoned and in shambles for as long as I can remember. I was really sorry to see it go when they removed it. It must've been a "real" theater at one time, as opposed to a "movie theater". It was extremely ornate. I never was inside, but when they were demolishing it, the interior was exposed in all it's glory. In the final days the stage was visable from the station. It had ornate plaster around it, and Doric or Corinthian columns, and little balconies near the stage. I wish I took some photos of the demolition.
Here's a photo of it from "Ghost" filmed in the early 90's. It is visable to the left of the J train. (sorry about the quality, it's from a VHS tape as I don't have Ghost on DVD). In addition, for those of you that have Greller's "The Brooklyn ELevated" book on page 93, there is a photo of Myrtle when they were rebuilding the el to Dual Contracts standards, and three tracking the line. The Broadway Theater is visable there in the photo taken in 1913. It didn't appear to be a new building then either, so it must have been an old theater. A real shame it is gone.
"Ghost" was released summer 1990, so I surmise the filming was done in 1989.
Please, what is the full title of the Greller "BMT Elevated" book ? It's good to know about that photo on p. 93.
I believe that Greller did the text and Watson supplied the photos.
You might enjoy the Clive Barker story, "Son Of Celluloid". It's about a run-down but still active revival cinema, and is in a volume of the "Books Of Blood".
The fare structure between PATH ($1.50) and NYCT ($2.00) is different.
Good question because last week I asked about the bus to PATH transfer (even with a setp-up charge) but there is no agreement between the two agencies on this issue.
Maybe at that time the PATH urnstiles at WTC would allow a metrocard entry as well as a quick card. Was it possible?
Among other issues, perhaps older cars are better "known" in the shops and have been optimized over the years for service, while new cars are a relative unknown until they've seen some service life.
Or is that too much to ask?
When several hundred people fight the crowd down to an Arrow III train and walk briskly along the train looking for a car with seats available, how many passengers count cars? Depending on the stairway used, sometimes you don't even see either end of the train.
Only the people with the most highly refined observation skills (you, for example) always know which car they're in.
BTW, on Arrow III trains, the car numbers are usually mentioned in the announcements.
While announcing car numbers would be nice, it could simply add more confusion -- as car numbers aren't visible from all areas of the car (and are missing on the interior of some cars). Also, the car numbers that make up the consist frequently aren't known to all of the crew. Often at Penn, you'll hear the conductor tell the engineer "10 cars, 9724 is the rear motor". If the crew doesn't have that info when they board, they certainly don't know the car numbers in the middle.
The most effective announcements I've heard are "Kew Gardens next. If the doors on your car didn't open at Forest Hills, then they aren't going to open at Kew Gardens".
CG
Agreed. However, at Penn, there is a sign at each track that says "Front of LIRR Train --->"
But then again, how many people take the time to read the signs? I remember, back before the Broadway tracks of the Manhattan Bridge opened up, I would find people standing on the platform of the Canal Street (Bridge Line) station, expecting a train to show up, despite the "TRAINS DON'T STOP HERE" signs hanging over the platform edge. I even saw this when there weren't any tracks for the trains to run on!
NJ Transit does this routinely. I have also been told when having my ticket checked by a conductor that I will need to move up x cars to disembark when the time comes.
As to whether people remember what car they are in: railfans do. Ordinary mortals are paying much more attention to newspapers, magazines, planning work, planning meals…all the other stuff that gets in the way of railfanning! The best that most do is remembering that they are near the front/middle/back.
This is the most effective method as anouncing car numbers still can create a mad scramble to find the correct car.
It’s not as bad as you would think as the regular commuters either:
a) Know where they want to be on the train so that they can get to the station exit quickly
or
b) If the train is crowded and they can’t get space where they want, at least know that the announcement means “get your butt in gear!”
The only two places that I hear the announcement regularly are New Brunswick (either direction) and Rahway northbound, where the switch to the outside platform prevents the whole train from platforming.
(Plus Jersey Avenue’s low-level, where the announcement is “find a member of the train crew”, but the commuters there all know that)
And I am one of those trainmen who engages in that practice. I find that it avoids delaying the train waiting for the passnegers run to the proper location or dealing with angry passengers who have to ride back to their missed stop.
I don't usually announce car numbers due to the fact that after 5 years on the railroad, I have found that a lot (if not MOST) of people are either too lazy, too stupid, or too drunk to look for things like that. I usually make an announcement where I tell the people that if they're not sure what car they're in, walk forward until they see a member of the crew who will direct them. Of course, all of this "information" is useless when the affected passenger is babbling away on a cellphone and not listening to the announcements. After they miss their stop, I usually tell them that now they can use their lovely cellphone to call a taxi!
How often does this happen, as per your experience?
I was always a regular on train 93 (back in the 80's).
One day I get on the train, and we leave the station, and *then* the conductor tells me that I left my car lights on. : (
So when I got to the city (they didn't *have* cell phones in those days) I called home, and mom drove down to the station and turned them off for me. : )
Elias
:0)
On Sunday a couple got on a southbound 1 at Rector. From their conversation, it appeared that they were on their third attempt at getting to South Ferry. They were positioned properly this time (fourth car), but they still got nervous when the train stopped between stations (I take it a 5 was crossing in front of us).
This move was being done with passengers, despite what some crews seemed to think. (I have an email from the General Superintendent of the 4/5/6 that backs me up on this.)
Northbound 2's ran up the East Side.
What, in this horrible and dangerous city?
I wonder how much they spent on their back-and-forths, since Rector doesn't have a crossover, and if they were using unlimiteds, the 18-minute lockout would still have been in effect on their second try.
I'm sick of people like you suggesting that I have to accept rail service the way its given and like it. If I'm paying to ride the LIRR, and I pay to the tune of over $2,000 yearly, I have the right to AT LEAST ASK FOR superior service. The LIRR isn't giving me anything for free. I'm not asking for anything outlandish here - there are LIRR crew members who do announce the car numbers, so why can't it be standard practice?
Incorrect. The LIRR is giving you at least 40% of your ride for free (Their fare recovery ratio is in the high 50%'s, I believe). They are also most likely to make their money on the first twenty miles outside the city, where the highways are the most congested. I don't know where you travel from, but if you are travelling from ways out in the suburbs, it is likely that LIRR is heavily subsidizing your ride. So they are giving you at least a portion of the ride for free.
I'm not asking for anything outlandish here - there are LIRR crew members who do announce the car numbers, so why can't it be standard practice?
Because, LIRR crew, just like you, are people, and people are not machines and don't always work the same way. If machines operated the LIRR line, then you can expect them always to work in the same way when they're working. When they're not working, they still have to be repaired by a human.
AEM7
Ladies and Gentlemen, our train this afternoon is longer than the platform in ____________, if the blue lights are flashing in your car, please move ____________, to a car that will platform at the station.
Thank you for your inattention.
Incorrect. The LIRR gives me NOTHING for "free." A ride is a ride, its not divided into portions. By your own statistics, I pay for at least 60% of my ride. Right? So right there, my ride is not "free." And how can you divide up a ride by "paid" and "free" sections? Is there a sign posted somewhere along the route saying "Fares Not Applied Beyond This Point?"
And I pay for at least a portion of the "free" 40% of my ride by paying all kinds of taxes to the State, which in turn gives money to the MTA, which in turn funds the LIRR. The LIRR does not have it own money - its either the MTA's money or the riders' money. Either way, I pay.
And I ride in from Cedarhurst, which is about 2 miles from the Queens border. The LIRR still places me in Zone 4 which means I pay as much in fare as someone living much farther out in Nassau County than I do, while being carried fewer miles per day and getting fewer services. So I'm getting rooked there too.
"Because, LIRR crew, just like you, are people, and people are not machines and don't always work the same way. If machines operated the LIRR line, then you can expect them always to work in the same way when they're working. When they're not working, they still have to be repaired by a human."
Bull. There are standardized practices on the LIRR, just as there are in every established business. Ticket checking is done all the time on every train, so why can't car announcements be made a standard practice too? Come on - announcing which cars would be affected by train positioning is not a great additional hardship on anyone. In fact, it wouldn't even always be in place - I have many trips to and from Cedarhurst where all cars stop at all stations, so no announcements would even be necessary. But it would be a nice service for the passengers.
Your post is just another example of someone trying to protect MTA employees to make sure that they have to do as little as possible for their salaries. There are MANY MANY occasions that I see crew members, having completed their ticket-checking in their designated cars, just sitting around griping and moaning about something or another, as if they were the only ones on Earth who feel that they are underpaid and underappreciated. Providing such announcements would be a MINIMAL burden on them and a great service for passengers.
By your logic, parents would have no right to complain about the quality of the public school system -- since it is 100% subsidized.
CG
Actually, no. The American public have basically no right to complain about public schools when compared with their British counterparts who send their kids to private schools. I was one of those private school snobs and I was able to strongarm the school into providing a number of things which I would not have gotten in the public school system in either country. For instance, I pointed out that my absence from school is no cause for their concern: they simply need to make sure the sponsors (i.e. my parents) knew about it, and they have no right to punish me unless the sponsors agreed. The other issue was regarding class scheduling; I made them accommodate a five-subject elective combination when the school nominally support a maximum of four-subjects per academic year. In fact, the contract for my education was terminated with one of the schools because they refused to make this provision; we gave the contract to a competing school that offered a scholarship in addition to the five-elective requirement.
AEM7
Much of the LIRR's funding comes from the MTA as a whole. Subway riders and bridge users are footing some of the bill.
I do agree that this doesn't relieve him of the right to complain.
The fare recovery ratio on the LIRR, prior to the latest fare hike, was 25%. Has the fare hike changed that significantly?
Are you sure about that?
According to the MTA's 2004 budget, on either a cash or accrual basis, the LIRR's farebox recovery is just about 40%, and has been since 2002 (earliest year they show).
See pages 198 - 207 of http://www.mta.info/mta/budget/pdf/financialplan_vi.pdf
CG
If you take bus and subway together, it woul appear that the gap between LIRR and city riders in terms of subsidy has narrowed a bit. That's good.
CG
And so after all these years, do you not yet know which cars will platform at your station, and where to find those cars while they are still in Penn Station?
I Merrick (IIRC) only on 12 car trains did the first two miss the platform. But then I never ever rode on the east end of the train, and so it did not matter to me where those cars stopped.
Elias
Of course, just to be fair, I have to admit the pre-M1's had the stairwells on the trains so people were able to get off where there was no platforms.
Well, I for one would stand on the bottom step, hanging on to the grab iron and leaning over the edge as the train swept into the station.
The grade crossings were great things in those days.
Yeah, stoopit people could get killed or worse, but we could put pennies on the track, and then sit by the wayside and watch the trains come into town.
Elias
How many stations in diesel territory have that problem?
That makes 3 stations so far. Any others?
I'm sure 3 cars is enough for the rush hour traffic.
Greenport shuttle trains seem to platform only 1 1/2 cars, with one of the doors locked out until Ronkonkoma. I'm not sure exactly which of the intermediate stations are short enough to require that.
OK, so this is potentially a problem for passengers.
At Penn the signs direct you to the front of the train. If its a diesel hauled train you're getting on at any station, you need to remember that the diesel locomotive always leads or trails away from Manhattan (unless there are power units on both ends).
It would be nice to know which car you're in positionally...
CG
All of the following are short platforms which regularly have longer trains stopping at them.
Forest Hills and Kew Gardens are only 4 cars.
Hollis is only 4 cars
St. Albans is only 6 cars
Valley Stream is only 8 cars
Rosedale is currently only 6 cars (during renovation -- being expanded to 10)
Lynbrook (Long Beach Branch platform) is only 10 cars
Oceanside is only 8 cars
Amityville/Copaigue/Lindenhurst are only 10 cars
Either New Hyde Park or Merrilon Ave (I think NHP) is only 10 cars
Floral Park westbound mainline is only 6 or 8 cars.
Westwood, Lakeview and Hempstead Gardens are only 4 cars.
Inwood is short -- but I don't recall if it is 4, 6 or 8 cars.
I would think a 10 car platform qualifies as "full length." However, the number of shorter platforms is still pretty considerable.
I wish they had lengthened Kew Gardens and Forest Hills. Recall that LIRR had responded to community requests to improve service to Forest Hills some years back, and had rehabbed the station and added ADA compliance. They then added trains that would stop there. I would have liked a full length pplatform added as well.
Maybe Frank Padavan can help arrange it...
I just realized that my list is short by one obvious station -- Jamaica is only a 10 car platform. On some platforms depending on how the train was switched onto that track and also (I think) where it is going, Jamaica is only open for 8 cars.
CG
I hadn't realized that either! However, having 10 sets of doors open out of 12, or 8 out of 10, is not usually a terrible hardship for passengers (of course rush hour can be its own special hell, no matter how many doors are open).
Yeah, but that still doesn't help if you have no idea what car you are in. I'm a railfan, and I even don't know what car I am in most for the time, forget about your average rider.
However if you have a monthly, they don't ask you where you are going since regulars should know which car they need to be in. Sometimes on peak trains with regular tickets they won't ask either just because they are so busy.
I'd prefer that they made the announcement about first 4 cars one station stop ahead.....ie, on a westbound train, announce that Kew Gardens and Forest Hills are first 4 cars only as you pull into Jamaica, so that you can get off the train and walk forward on the platform (in my experience, thats faster then walking through the cars). They should also be making the anouncement on the train as people are getting on at Jamaica.
As for Penn...since most trains going to Forest Hills and Kew Gardens don't make the Woodside stop, there should be signs at Penn Station telling people to be in the first four cars. Perhaps even signs at the 8th Ave side entrances to the platform telling people to walk forward and board further down for Forest Hills and Kew Gardens.
But honestly, after you do it once, you'll know for the rest of your life....I have a friend who lives in Forest Hills and she always reminds me that we need to sit in one of the first 4 cars if we leave Penn on the same train.
Normally it is controlled by the automation equipment which sends signals from the control center to this electronics bay located in the car:
There will be Customer Service Reps (CSR's) riding the trains to assist passengers, but (at the time I asked) there would not be one in every car. Perhaps that has changed.
Indeed. Here's a pic I took today on Vancouver's Skytrain:
Fast Forward
It's been edited a little for artistic purposes (hence the title) but you get the general idea.
-Robert King
Skytrain runs underground downtown. On the rest of the system, the view from the front window normally looks something like this:
1 end of Metrotown Station from the inbound track
The line is computer-controlled. No T/Os onboard, and while there will be a central control center the operators there don't have the ability to drive the vehicles remotely.
Here is a description of a previous installation of the use of the ATO/ATC system used on Airtrain:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~dodger/tech.htm
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Its a shame this guy is going to have to end his last term with a failure. I mean most senators equate rail transport with some sort of socialism so any constructive debate on the matter is just impossible.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df12012003.shtml#Shoot
As far as socialism goes, if we had a foreign company own and operate the train lines, with foreign people employed on it only, then we can make a guise and say it's part of "free trade". Works on everything else.
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Ever since they imposed a 25 mph PSR through towm for grade crossing consideration (Wallingford at one time lead the nation in per capita grade crossing fatalities) there has been little point for trains NOT to stop there.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df12012003.shtml#Amtrak
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Yeah...and these new fast trains will have special wide, air cushioned maliable wheels, "steerable" boogies and will be made to run on wide, flat "monorail" tracks. I'm surprised that Texas isn't poineering an experiment in spending federal dollars that deals with extra wide lanes for double wide pickup trucks.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df12012003.shtml#Texas
Anyway, i was unclear about something in regards to this, I thought the trains may have to go for a vote(just when the anti-rail people in dallas and houston packed up and went home(out-of-state)).
I do love the trans-texas corridor plans.
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NEW TRAINS?!?!?! OH NO!! Quick! The NINBY Signal. Da-da da-da- da-da da-da, da-da da-da da-da da-da Ass-holes.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df12012003.shtml#Poughkeepsie
"The route extends from Metro-North tracks along the Hudson River through the city into the Town of Poughkeepsie to the Hudson River Psychiatric Center, and then back into the city to the Smith Street Yards. "
Will the psychiatric center have a spur track for special deliveries? :0)
At one time they did, 100 years or so ago. Somewhere at home I have a postcard depicting the spur and its station.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Proof that anencephalic politicians occasionally can be found beyond NYC limits.
The statement should be “Proof that anencephalic politicians are ubiquitous”.
Unfortunately.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Regards,
Jimmy
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
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This new "record" just goes to show how piss poor the European rail freight network is. For comparason a sizable number of american mannifest and bulk freight trains typically run with loads between 10,000 and 16,000 tonnes on a regular basis.
In Europe two axle freight cars are the norm, doubleheading is nearly unheard of and automatic knuckle couplers seem to have a voodo hex on them. As a result their highway system is clogged with trucks witch have a tendency to explode in tunnels killing scads of people at a time. Sure they might have a nice passenger network, but their freight network absolutely sucks and I would rather have trucks off the road than more passenger rail options.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df12012003.shtml#Poughkeepsie
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df12012003.shtml#Germany
Conrail ore trains could easily go up to 20,000 tons (see the current issue of TRAINS). Not only is the freight network crap, it is also a waste of energy. Ore trains running at 50mph consuming 24,000hp of power, while a similar ore train would probably run with just 12,000hp and at 30mph in North America. Ore just seems to be the densiest thing out there.
AEM7
Containers are light.
AEM7
AEM7
A couple months ago you could have seen "Amtrak Freight Train No. #44" snake out of Harrisburg station and reach some 70mph on the main line between Harrisburg and Lewistown. Too bad all the freights have been cut and the consist is down to one diesel electric with two coaches and a Cafe.
If you're talking about REAL freight railroads going real fast, your best bet is the Conrail main line (ex-NYC) through Upstate New York, through VOOSHERVILLE (ask SelkirkTMO). These days track speed up there is mostly 60mph or 70mph, depending. Most of the CSX and NS trackage in the New York area are slow crawls. There's also NS freight trains running on the Northeast Corridor, oaksmodelrr and Jersey Mike would know the schedules.
AEM7
Stego
N Bwy
Oh yeah? Well I think you must have bumped your head recently.
Oh yeah? Well I think you must have bumped your head recently.
Studies sponsored by the American Trucking Association?
Trucks are environmentally damaging. But there are trucks and there are trucks. Trucks that do intermodal drayage is almost unavoidable, as are trucks that deliver aggregates to construction sites in the city. However trucks that deliver ore to plants, coal to power stations, etc could easily be replaced with rail. In the same way that no one is calling for NYC subway to be extended to Albany, there are different kinds of trucks, some of which can be substituted by rail, others cannot and should not.
AEM7
It's you who need to get off your German kick.
People here care about rail service in places other than the US. No one here wants to hear your ethnic prejudices.
I have my facts straight. You said:
"I don't give a hoot about those rotten Germans, the filthy bunch of ingrates."
You did not call members of the German government filthy ingrates (who I agree with you would deserve the appelation), you applied that to the entire population of the country. That is ethnic prejudice, bigotry, and all the rest.
You wouldn't like it (and neither would I) if anyone called Italians or Italian-Americans filthy anythings. Why is it OK to say it of Germans as a whole?
"Phil Meyer, Fred Repke, John Meiers, Jerry Dohling, and Paul Tyrrell are five of my closest friends and all are either pure American-German descent or most of it."
Are you saying that it's OK to call people filthy as long as they don't live in the United States?
No war - no corpse
There was no reason for an attack against the Iraq.
Bush ordered the attack and now he gets the result.
It's only sad for the families with dead soilders. (The price is to high)
>numerous meetings with Al Quada members
Never heard of that.
Question is how long. China is going to have its own problems.
They are going to be more capitalistic in the future and i guess as a
result someday a democracy. This evolution gives them a lot of problems,
so may be they can't control Kim Jong Il.
>use Nucs to destroy them
And the environment is also destroied for tousands of years.
Compared with the nuces of today, the two dropped in Japan wasn't big,
but the two cities still have problems today.
Might I suggest you turn off Fox (or CNN) and get some real news?
Saddam Hussain was never allied with al Qaida. Al Qaida's backers are primarily Saudi.
Get off the computer and back on the monkeybars, Georgie....
I was going to address the Anti german sentiments.. b/c somehow I knew it was going to go here.. Racism is wrong!
N Bwy
There you have it. Any hyphenated American group is fine by you, but whole foreign nationalities are inherently no damn good. Not their governments or certain of the people. All the people.
What if somebody said that American Jews were fine; it was just all those foreign Jews who were uniformly malevolant people. Would that be OK?
The point appears to have gone clean over your head...
N Broadway
Just how many hours of intense thought did it take you to come up with that awe-inspiring display of your obviously superior intellect?
Here's a pic of the used freight car:
and of the locomotive [i've operated with it twice a three car passenger
train - i loved the acceleration :-) ]
(Sorry that the pics are only from model railway, only did a fast search)
The axle limit is coming from the signal technique. They are counting
up at the entrance point and down at the exit point. The highest number
is 255 and one more (256) is the same as 0. So if a train with 256
occupies a block the counter will be a the value 0 resulting in a
green signal for the occupied block.
Sure they might have a nice passenger network, but their freight network absolutely sucks and I would rather have trucks off the road than more passenger rail options
Guess what—we have neither. The freight railroads keep losing market share to trucks in this country. Slow drag freights are not the way to go if the rail freight companies actually want to compete—fast freight has to make a comeback.
Here’s the right link, BTW.
Highlights are:
Leicester Sq/Tottenham Court Rd: Chinatown
Tower Hill: Tower of London
Westminster: Houses of Parliament
Paddington: Concert Hall, Victoria & Edward Museum
Hey, I miss that place sometimes.
AEM7
Seriously, you can get off at Tottenham Court Road and walk to Russell Square or vice-versa as an easy stroll.
AEM7
suggests that a nice walk would be from St Paul’s, across the Millennium bridge (which I believe has now been fixed), then along to London Bridge.
Somewhere to the right of the map is Southwark Cathedral, and Tower Bridge (which is now a museum and you can walk across the top), is nearby.
Too much to do, too much to see!
That is indeed a nice walk. Look for the map in the unpaid part of St Pauls tube station that indicates how to get to the footbridge. On the way to the bridge you will pass St Pauls Cathedral (if you have time visit the (internal) whispering gallery and (external) stone gallery with great views of the city.
Between Bankside and London Bridge you will pass the newly rebuilt Globe theatre (rebuild by Sam and Zoe Wanamaker to the original design of Shakespeare's time) and several other interesting places.
The BBC has details.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2000/millennium_bridge/default.stm
A significant portion of the cost of running an airline is the ground infrastructure which, in a lot of cases, is rented/leased as part of a shared facility. Airlines have chosen to break this cost out of the overall ticket charge, so they can advertise cheaper flights–the sticker shock comes later.
I believe this is fraudulent, as it’s not as if the charges/taxes/etc are optional. Think of NJ Transit advertising a $1 ticket from Princeton Junction to New York, except that it has a $3 Princeton Junction facility charge, a $2 Amtrak Rails Charge and a $2 Penn Station Facility Charge!
Coming from England, where what you see is what you pay (almost universally), as the equivalent of sales tax, VAT, is built into the advertised price, I was bemused when learning that sales tax is additional to the price in the US.
Or how about a $1.25 single-ride subway fare that also requires payment of a $0.75 skell-removal charge :)
Seriously, though, I have to give Virgin credit for honesty. When I searched its site last night for the best fares, it showed the $335.08 right upfront, rather than the basic fare without taxes and fees. Nor did it follow the truly odious practice found in many airline ads, showing a very low fare that upon closer examination turns out to be one-half of the round trip fare.
Interesting observation: I checked several of the low-fare ticket sites, like Expedia, Travelocity, lowestfares.com and cheaptickets.com, and they all were right around the $335 I found on VS's site. I guess they don't always have real bargains.
British Airways is currently advertising a $99 special to London (to celebrate the arrival of Concorde at the Intrepid). They do say it’s each way, but I wonder what the real cost is with the taxes.
As for prices, since 2000, the cheapest fares have been United, United, Air Canada (through Priceline), Virgin, BA. It always pays to take a look at the airline’s own web site as there are sometimes bargains that don’t appear elsewhere, especially if you can vary your travel dates by a day or so at the beginning and end. I usually end up with a dozen browser windows open before I make my final choice!
I’ll miss the good Christmas television (watching the best of Morecombe and Wise and Only Fools and Horses reminds me of Christmases of my youth), but I’m opting for Springtime in the Park.
Not true. When you go to a UK travel agent to book a ticket, the advertized price in the window is sometimes not available, and the advertized price is always exclusives of airports tax, etc.
The reason US sales tax is addition is because you can buy things across state lines while you are supposed to not pay tax (to the producing state) when engaging in interstate commerce. You are supposed to record such transactions and pay your local state taxes on out-of-state purchases, but of course in practice no one does.
The US sales tax system is better. The locals are much more aware of the tax and the companies that produce goods don't have to compete harder in states that have higher tax rates. They simply make a uniform pre-tax price and then let the taxpayers realize they are paying tax, and lobby their politican for tax cuts. This is the reason why U.S. state sales taxes are much lower than their British counterparts -- because Britons don't realize their government is ripping them off.
AEM7
As for sales tax, believe me, I was always aware of VAT at 15% (or even higher at times!). Whether it’s a rip-off depends on whether you think you’re getting value for money from your government.
Yes, in the era of regulated airlines and "British Airways" monopoly.
As for sales tax, believe me, I was always aware of VAT at 15% (or even higher at times!).
17.5% across the whole nation, and have always been this way I think since the Thatcher administration.
Whether it’s a rip-off depends on whether you think you’re getting value for money from your government.
Government never gives you good value for money!
The MTA is essentially a state govt operation in NY, and the MetroCard ranks as one of the best values around.
Most of you New Yorkers (even the ones who have never set foot in Europe) already know what I'm talking about. Like when you walk into a Chinese food joint. 95% of the places in NY have the tax built in. So if good ol' pork fried rice is listed as $2.75, then that's what you'll pay.
It's too bad that the US cannot adopt this convenient form of payment. It would be nice to pull out exactly $49 for something that costs $49 with tax included. Then again with this system, one couldn't barter to pay for a medium-large ticket item without tax when paying with cash.
The line is (partly) subway and (mostly) elevated, and if you can get a seat at the front you have a full width railfan window, because it is fully automated.
If you have only time for one ride, I'd suggest riding from Bank (interchange with Central, Northern, Circle and District lines) out to Cutty Sark on the Lewisham line. This gives you both subway and elevated sections, and if you have time can spend a bit of it in historic Greenwich and perhaps take in the Cutty Sark itself (a preserved sailing clipper).
On the way back, retrace your steps to Heron Quays, and walk the short (and sign-posted) distance to Jubilee line's Canary Wharf station. This is a very new extension and the station's underground is an enormous cathedral like space.
Incidentally I suggest that you buy a one-day off-peak all-zones travelcard which costs UKP5.10, and lets you ride anywhere in London after 9.30am (all day on weekends) on the Underground, DLR, Red Buses and National Rail trains. More information here.
And maybe drink some Cutty Sark (hic!)
You can also get off at Island Gardens and walk under the river in the historic foot tunnel.
H&C/Circle Baker St. platforms, and lots of train operations thru Baker St. Metropolitan. Also Farringdon Metropolitan, Aldgate Metropolitan.
The Jubilee line extension stations -- big and impressive.
The Northern line is pretty complex, lots of trains.
Docklands Light Rail - lots of good photo ops. between Canary Wharf and Poplar; main line rail at Stratford; under Thames tunnel to Lewisham
If you're into trams, Croydon Tramlink (take train from Victoria to E. Croydon or Waterloo -- or the District line-- to Wimbledon). Some nice street running portions around E. Croydon
The Central line Hainault loop, and the Piccadilly line between Ealing and Uxbridge have some really nice picturesque stations many with overpasses for photos.
Still not, until they fix the switch at Camden town, unfortunately.
Some of my favorite segments:
-Met/Jubliee Line express/local operation north of Baker St. The Met will show you how a real express is run.
-Jubliee extension
-Earl's Court station on the district with the old train boards. It's a very busy station
-Baker St has lots of train operation and has a poster telling you that you are in the oldest subway station in the world.
For an express ride, get a Watford, Amersham or Chesham train (these should say fast or semi-fast, most of these start at Baker St) and change onto an Uxbridge train at Harrow-otH.
wayne
Class 332 rolling stock is nominally limited to 100mph. At 102mph the speed limiter will kick in, shutting off power.
AEM7
Started at Covent Garden
Piccadilly to King's X
H&C to Farringdon
Metropolitan to Rayners Lane with photo stops at Harrow on the Hill and West Harrow
Piccadilly to Hammersmith
H&C to Edgeware Road
District to East Putney with photo stop at Notting Hill Gate
District to Sloane Square
I also did some other shorter trips, making slight detours while en route to my real destination. Also, I would ride the DLR if you can. A fun thing to do is to take the ferry if you visit Greenwich. Then, on the return trip, walk through the tunnel under the river. It comes out near the Island Gardens DLR station, and you can then take DLR back to the city.
The DLR is always good fun - full RFWs and a great ride, especially the Lewisham Branch.
Don't forget about National Rail trains. They tend to be out in the open, so more interesting.
Change off the northbound Victoria line - and return from WIllesden either by the DC line to Euston - or jump onto the frequent Bakerloo line which shares the same tracks.
As in NYC avoid the rush hours and school out hours for obvious reasons. (and dont show u are a tourist !)
It's every 20 minutes on Saturdays and every 30 minutes on Sundays. On Mondays to Fridays, alternate trains turn at Stratford (as there is some single tracking to N Woolwich). During the rush hour, there are extra trains between Stratford and Camden Rd.
I referred to the "base service" ...
Very hard work with 450 traincrew etc + West Coast issue.Nevr a dull moment.!
Most traffic south of Stratford was lost with the Jubilee line apart from peaks - so its on a drip feed.Watch out for the DLR - whichc is the best solution probably as much traffic naturally terminates at Stratford (SX in rly terms)
Some ideas at the moment of making Clapham - Camden Rd - Stratford a through link - especially with higher frequewncies on the West Lodnon line making turnbacks at Kensinton tricky.
I suspect what will happen with DLR once the Canning Town - Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town - Stratford Intl branches open is:
- 6tph Woolwich - Bank
- 6tph Woolwich - Stratford Intl
- 6tph King George V - Crossharbour (rush hour only)
This will probably outcompete the JLE as the lines would actually go somewhere.
Some ideas at the moment of making Clapham - Camden Rd - Stratford a through link
Yuck! What I'd much prefer is when Virgin double their frequency to Birmingham to send the extra 2tph after Watford to West Brompton and Clapham Junction (maybe replacing the crappy Brighton via Didcot service).
Due to a Police investigation at Times Square-42nd Street, the 2 train is running on the 5 line from Nevins Street to 149th Street-Grand Concourse, while the 1 & 3 trains are suspended from 137th Street to Chambers Street and from 96th Street to Nevins Street, respectively.
Oh, are you going to attend the SF hearing tonight in Staten Island? I will be there after 6.
By the way, kids, don't put your fingers in the seam of a closed door on an R142/3 train, because you'll get pinched when the doors open. Don't think that happens on the R46's, though.
BTW, that pinch happens in all car types. It just hurts more when you do it to a R142/A or R143.
I am desperately seeking any info on where to go to get some good photographs (if they still exist) or basically just wander around and see the things firsthand.
I know thre is tons if pictures on this site but I want to go there myself.
Any info is appreciated.
Jim
Some people get in there with permission; others have zoom lenses. The tracks at Bush Terminal are close to the street, so you can get a decent shot with a wide-angle lens through the chain link fence. The Costco parking lot next to South Brooklyn Yard is an excellent vantage point.
any more information is helpful
You are an employee of NY Cross Harbor RR or NYCT (or LIRR; some scrap M-1s have turned up there) with a reason to be in there. Alternately, you could try to ask the security guard for admission, but it isn't guaranteed.
Any R-26/28/29 cars that weren't reefed are being preserved. I would guess the remaining R-14 through 22 cars still in work service may be floated to NJ via Cross Harbor as the R-33s replace them.
Is 7643 even in the work fleet?
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/queens/nyc-nyair033568749dec03,0,4645094.story?coll=nyc-manheadlines-queens
I have to wonder about Newsday’s slant on the story however:
A lawyer representing them [the family of Kelvin DeBourgh Jr, the worker killed in the 2002 derailment], Douglas Milch, said: "We have serious doubts as to the public safety of this system. If we have no faith or confidence in manual testing of the AirTrain, how can you have faith or confidence for the safety of the general public in an automated system?"
So Douglas Milch knows more than the PA engineers, the contractor’s engineers, the NTSB engineers…
No no no. You got it all wrong. He said FAITH and CONFIDENCE, which is different from knowing the truth. FAITH is something you believe in for no reason, an irrational belief. CONFIDENCE is a sentiment where you believe something will work, regardless of whether it will actually work or not.
NewsDay was simply airing one man's opinion.
AEM7
How bout we all take a ride on the 1st train?
I'd like that, but as of yet, opening time and train info is not available.
"Beginning December 17, passengers will be able to use, free of charge, the six stations in the Central Terminal Area loop for easy connections among all terminals; the Lefferts Boulevard Station for long-term and employee parking; and the Federal Circle Station for car rentals. Service between the Howard Beach and the Jamaica Station AirTrain terminals and the on-airport stations will cost $5 for a single trip. Monthly passes offering unlimited trips will cost $40. Terminals at Howard Beach and Jamaica Station will enable airport passengers and employees to make more than 1,500 fast, easy, convenient and reliable connections every day between the airport and the A, E, J and Z subway lines; Long Island Rail Road trains; and buses. Service from Penn Station in Manhattan to JFK's terminals via AirTrain JFK is projected to take less than 45 minutes; the trip from midtown Manhattan to JFK can presently take more than two hours by car or taxi. The approximately 8-mile light-rail system is expected to serve 34,000 passengers per day at the start."
This release is still not on the PA website, nor is any other info on the service.
My Dec. 2002 bus map shows the Q10 running along Conduit to 130 st., then 134 st. into the airport, not PanAm Rd. Has the route been changed?
My Dec. 2002 bus map shows the Q10 running along Conduit to 130 st., then 134 st. into the airport, not PanAm Rd. Has the route been changed?
Also, see new Airtrain brochure in my other post just now.
Since it will be rush hour, I was thinking that a train stright through to JFK would be better, and faster, then a bus. Don't forget who knows about the trafic situation.
Some afternoon rush hour trains from Penn bypass Jamaica, otherwise the answer is yes.
CG
The JFK Airtrain should have an advantage over Newark for late arrivals. LIRR has 5 or 6 trains per hour from Jamaica to Penn as late as 1 AM. NJT service dies down pretty quickly to about 2 or 3 trains per hour once the PM peak period is over. I've spent too much time on that EWR platform late at night with that horrible stench of rotting trash wafting over the fence.
CG
Do people think that maybe Albany (state government) wants to remember the 100th anniversity of the airplane by opening the JFK AirTrain without properly testing it?
Oh, and between what two stations is the AirTrain yard?
The AirTrain Newark could also use an update... it still tells you to go to NY Penn Station and take the subway or use the 33rd Street PATH line in order to go to "Downtown Manhattan". No mention of the reopened WTC PATH line.
#3 West End Jeff
The Jerk Rate is the rate of change of acceleration; and it is expressed in units of miles per hour per second per second. Today it is a factor in establishing levels of passenger comfort (related to acceleration and deceleration). To fast of a Jerk Rate can result in the vehicle lurching forward and passengers falling back.
I am interested in finding vehicle operating characteristics related to the R 46, including: acceleration, deceleration, operating proceedures of the motor operator, Jerk Rate studies, etc. If you can point me in the right direction that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Generally, the Jerk Coefficient should be (1/Jerk Rate) taken to some x exponet, where x is 1 or 2 or ??
--Z--
It still is, but not here on Schlubtalk.
To whom are you referring?
But the two slower notches were long since DEAD, and so it was basically UP or DOWN.
Now I had to run this elevator while the elevator operator took his lunch period. Well, the car was known for starting and stopping abruptly, and some people always said that it ran with a jerk.
I told them that the *could* use the stairs.
: ) Elias
"Well the Jerk Store called, and they're running out of you!"
(George Costanza to Businessman) Seinfeld episode
Nah. That's the factor of stupidity.
IIRC, they were lenghened slightly towards each other but mostly in the opposite direction.
Interesting.
Elias
This sort of thing has been going on forever - in the 70's someone made a habit of carving "PRAY" on the coinboxes of pay phones (which were shiny chrome compared to the matte black of the rest of the phone housing). They defaced every phone they could get to, and the circulation of coinboxes as they were emptied distributed them to non-public places as well. We had a slang name for this guy's work - "pray phone" (instead of "pay phone").
Not to be too demanding or anything, but I have one more London question. In addition to poking around the Underground, I'd like to make a quick mainline rail trip if time permits. What I had in mind was a trip of about an hour or so, followed by a bit of exploring in the destination. What I'd like to know, therefore, is a trip that might fit the following requirements:
1. No more than 60 minutes one-way from the London terminus.
2. Reasonably frequent service during the day, e.g. two hours or less between trains.
3. Decent scenery en route (can be interesting urban views as well as rural vistas).
4. An interesting, pedestrian-friendly town within walking distance of the station. Note that it does not have to be a typical tourist destination, in fact in some ways I'd prefer it if it isn't.
I know, this is a lot to ask, but I'd really aprpeciate any advice.
Brighton: 50 mins from London Waterloo, beach town, urban scenery en-route (rural once you get past Gatwick), 3rd rail MU's.
Cambridge: 45 mins from London King's Cross, college town, mostly rural scenery en route, lots of green grass, overhead line MU's.
Oxford: 65 mins from London Paddington, college town, mostly urban scenery en route, train passes North Pole depot for Eurostars, DMU's.
Henley-on-Thames: site of the big annual regetta, posh SUPER-QUAINT English town, about 75 mins from Paddington with a change at Reading (good railfanning site on Brunel's Great Western Rly), off the beaten track, somewhat romantic spot. Service operated by Thames Trains.
AEM7
Visit Oxford to see the University buildings, which are very old and very impressive.
For a spectacular view of the English countryside I suggest Box Hill, near Dorking. You take a suburban train from Waterloo and then there is quite a trek up the hill.
Waterloo or Victoria. Go to either and get the first train that calls at Epsom. If the train doesn't go on to call at Box Hill & Westhumble, change at Epsom - it'll either be same platform or cross-platform.
You could also go visit Oxford or Cambridge and walk around the Universities.
Also-- there's plenty of places that you can take the Underground out and Mainline rail back for a short trip. Upminster. Stratford. Ealing Broadway. Wimbledon. Greenwich (DLR).
Vaguely interesting places about an hour or less from London include:
1) St Alban's - historic Roman and mediaeval town - get on any Northbound Thameslink, preferably a Fast one.
2) Oxford - slightly over an hour from Paddington, but THE university town.
3) Cambridge - people from Cambridge would disagree with what I just said about Oxford - it can be reached from King's X or Liverpool St, so it's perfect for a round trip...
4) Coventry - Virgin Trains from Euston, half-hourly service - ruins of the Cathedral destroyed by the Jerries in WWII, National Motor Museum, a few nice churches and some awful 1960s town planning in between.
5) Winchester - trains from Waterloo, destination: Southampton, Bournemouth or Weymouth - nice old city.
6) Salisbury - trains from Waterloo, destination: Salisbury, Yeovil or Exeter - another nice old city.
7) Brighton - frequent services from Victoria, London Bridge and East Croydon - other people have already said why it's great, but I think there are better towns on the South Coast, notably:
8) Chichester - county town of West Sussex, the smallest City in England and definitely one of the most beautiful places in the country. At its centre is a Tudor Market Cross and it has a HUGE cathedral. Nearby are the beaches at the Witterings. Oh and the trains go from Victoria.
9) Portsmouth. It's not as grim as people say. Trains from Waterloo, also slower ones via Chichester from Victoria.
10) Arundel - hourly service from Victoria - nice castle.
If you wanted somewhere more rural:
1) Box Hill. Get the first train from either Waterloo or Victoria that calls at Epsom. Change there (same platform or cross-platform) if it doesn't go on to call at Box Hill & Westhumble. Trains roughly half-hourly, more in the rush hour, some rush hour trains to/from London Bridge.
2) Anywhere in the South Downs...
Yes. I rode it this summer.
According to this web site, it re-opens for 2004 on Good Friday (the friday before easter).
-Robert King
-Robert King
-Robert kIng
No, there was no demand. Some lines esp cross-London ones did fall through the crack when the franchises were decided, but mostly because they were lightly used and weren't worth developing when the railroad became fragmented. Had it been Network Southeast, they could have developed it more, but the rolling stock there was bad enough as it is...
Not really - I can do day trips from Birmingham to Epsom, including a cross-London transfer. Okay, that does involve setting out pretty early and arriving back late at night, but it's doable. Anyway, no-one's suggested anything quite that monstrous.
Good point. I've gotten some good suggestions so far, thanks to everyone, and right now I'd say I'm leaning toward Brighton. The 60-minute trip is reasonable, and it sounds as if the city's not really a tourist destination, at least in winter. My idea of tourism is to go where and when the other tourists don't.
Another option would be Stratford-upon-Avon, too.
Takes quite a long time to get to from London: about 130 minutes direct from Paddington. Likewise, Warwick is 97 minutes out of Marylebone (which shows quite how pisspoor the Leamington-Stratford service is...).
Shows that Chiltern need Fast Trains.
I'd like to rebuild platform 4 at Banbury into a through platform and have Chiltern do what MML do at Leicester - a cross-platform interchange where the Fast train overtakes the Slow one.
1) take BR train from Waterloo Station to Portsmouth
2) take Ferry to Ryde, Isle of Wight (runs every half hr)
3) train from Ryde to Shanklin leaves right at quayside. ]
4) reverse directions to return to London. Ferry to Portsmouth, then BR train to Waterloo.
Simon and I left at 9:45am and got back about 6:15pm. This included a stop at the Ryde St.John's Shoppe and a walk through the town to the High Street, and also a lunch stop. We killed over 2 hrs doing that.
wayne
Quite a lot to see whilst you are there. Windsor Castle is probably the best preserved Castle in England, and it is huge, looming over the town. If you have time, you can visit the state rooms there which are impressive.
There is the River Thames, which is particularly atractive in Windsor. If you fancy it, and the weather is decent, there are boat trips.
A short walk across the bridge is Eton, with its shool where most of the British establishment go to school, and a fine mediaeval chapel.
All pretty pedestrian friendly. It is a fairly small town, and nothing is more than 10 minutes walk from anywhere else. Here is some tourist info.
And from the point of view of a train journey, the great advantage is there are two different routes so you can make it a round trip. Catch the electric train from London Waterloo direct to Windsor & Eton Riverside (twice hourly/50min journey), then return from Windsor & Eton Central to London Paddington changing at Slough (twice hourly/30-40min). Or vica versa.
Both journeys are pretty urban; you won't see much in the way of rural scenery beyond a few fields. On the Waterloo leg you will see Clapham Junction (supposedly the UKs busiest rail station in terms of train movements). On the Paddington Log the depot where the Channel tunnel trains are maintained.
I figure there are 2 possible explinations.
1. It was some stock announcement in the computer and someone was flipping through them.
2. Or this is part of the new communication system.
Any thoughts?
Sean@Temple
-Robert King
Airtrain---Or Ticket To Hell?
If you're not familiar with New York Press, I think it's safe to say that it has a definite anti-establishment slant.
Has anyone heard of the violent rocking incident as described in the article?
Not so much anti-establishment as perpetually cynical. You name the idea, plan, scheme etc., and the Press will point out why it'll never work. It's probably because I'm on the cynical side that I can see this tone in the Press.
You mean "Armstrong Levers"? Did the Subway EVER have those things?
Elias
As much as I like conventional interlocking plants, they do require
frequent lubrication, cleaning and adjustment. And when adding
a switch means machining new tappet bars, these old clunkers just
can't compete with all-relay plants.
I am familiar with many cases of service disruptions because
of worn mechanical parts that caused levers to bind, locks
not to release, contact bands not to make up, etc. Not to mention
the occasional (on Model 14 machines) lever pulled clean out
of the machine!
You are right that these things (unless a master or traffic
lever is involved) generally can't cripple the entire plant
and definitely not the entire division.
In theory, all of the computer-based automatic dispatching
systems are just a Windoze application that "pushes" the
entrance/exit buttons of a conventional NX/UR plant. If
the computer craps out you can always go to the maintainer's
panel or aux control panel (if provided) and line the routes.
However, if management is relying on the cost savings provided
by the computer, there may not physically be enough people around
to manually push those buttons!
R-32.
How did the push-button emergency release work? Was there
a timer associated with it?
You could make any machine pickup a GRS indication magnet, the north end of West 4th works that way now.
I haven't met anyone who's even heards of a GRS Model 4 switch on the system, and I've asked a few "curators" about it. Even the machines on the now defunct K tracks at ENY were Model 5's, but the circuit controllers were of an older design.
Model 1 - Introduced by Taylor, like a Model 2 with no pole changer
Model 2 - Simple machine with gears upright, small size, but a little tall. Had a connecting point for a detector bar - used for converting a pipeline mechanical into an electric interlocking without installing track circuits.
Model 4 - Developed for the New York Central, flat to clear 3rd rail shoes. Gears and motor flat to the ground. Cam bar moves twice in the same direction for each throw.
Model 5 - Develpoed for the BRT(N.Y.M.Ry.)because the Model 4 was to wide for use in the hole, it is short and flat. Cam bar moves out and back during throw, motor and clutch are parallel to the rails, and other operating gears are flat to the ground.
Model 5A,B,C,D,etc. were Model 5's modified for mainline RR's with such features as integral point detectors, and dual-mode operation.
Model 6 - A Model 5 for use in yards, lacking a lock bar. Because of this modification the operating time is only 1 second (instead of 3). Developed for use in hump classification yards.
Model 7 - Essentially a motor driven switch stand for roads with a limited capital budget.
We call it a "Switch Machine" or "Switch and Lock Movement," but rarely a "Switch Movement."
I know you guys were duscussing interlockers, but Jeff and I have been wondering about the Mod.4/BMT thing for a while, and he did ask the question...
GRS is confusing because everything was a "Model -this- Form -that-"
Model 4 switch machine, Model 7 form B CC Box, Model 2 Form A relay, Model 2 Form B List 25 modified line relay, Model 2 interlocker, Model 2 switch, its all good.
http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/120103/a0101trainhit.html
I thought I had one some months ago at the following site...
http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/hyao/bdb/DSCN1750.jpg
Unfortunately the link is no longer good.
Does anyone know of another picture?
Here's a shot of R-33 9032:
Here's an odd one from another R-33:
The same can be said of the PRR's _Union_, a Chicago-Cincinnati/ Columbus train, which carried a lightweight 10/6 sleeper and (probably) lightweight coaches between Chicago and Norfolk in connection with the N&W, but was mostly heavyweight as regards its head-end cars.
Alan Follett
Hercules, CA
"Ladies and Gentlemen -- It's the holiday season and the trains will get very crowded over the next few weeks. Make sure you hold onto all your personal belongings and be alert for pick-pocketers. If you run into trouble, please get off the train at the next stop and dial 9-1-1 from the phone on the station platform. If you're traveling with children, please keep them close by."
Then he went on to repeat the announcement.
that's like letting logic escape.
VC Madman
I don't want to be bothered with any problems on my train. If something happens get off the train. Don't tell me because then I have to radio Control Center and the train might be held to wait for police. Then my C/R and I will not finish our shifts until much later.
Anyway, I rode through that area this afternoon and the switches are still in place. Of course whether they are operational is another story.
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Good luck making it in.
Chuck Greene
Chuck feels like a homebrah, even tho he's a PA homebrah!
Self, a short commute down I-87 to 242-VCP then into 42-TSQ for S.
Recharging cam batteries as we type....
There was a surprise sheet of ice on New Jersey roads from Mercer County up to New York Tuesday morning. It took me 2 hours to go 3 miles on 295 (from mile 59 to mile 62). My usual 50 minute drive to work took 3 hours.
At least this storm is in the forcast. I also hope to make it to Hamilton Saturday morning.
I don't want to miss this golden opportunity!
Bundle up!
lol nevermind brah
John
Redbirds in the SNOW?!?!?!!!!!
8CD
VC Madman
VC Madman
#3 West End Jeff
I know that you can use Metrocard for the WTC to NJ PATH ride, but as of now you have to use PATH card to go to NYC.
My question is, do you know if the Unlimited (30 day) Metrocard will be accepted at the turnstiles?
If yes, I'll save a lot on my commute.
Any info is appreciated!
Craig
Robert
Using metrocard at PATH was interesting in that you insert the card into the front of the turnstile, and the card is returned at the top. I actually think this method of swiping is better....slightly more time consuming then the MTA turnstile swipes, but the card is guaranteed to read on the first swipe, which is not the case with MTA turnstiles!
I also don't think I saw any turnstiles at WTC PATH station where you could insert cash...but I did see special machines selling single ride Quick Cards....
The end turnstile on each side of the station (furthest from the stairs leading up) has one of the old "coins & bills" tower machines. There is a stainless steel box between it and the Cubic turnstile which conceals a PC being used as an adapter.
The closest you can get is to put $30 on the card. The 20% bonus will add $6.00 for a total of $36.00. The leftover $1.00 will drive some people nuts.
In putting both fares on the same card the 20% benefit bringing the cost of a subway ride down to $1.67 will be lost because as I mentioned above $20 of the $35 will go to the subway fare at full fare and the $15 will go to the PATH at full fare.
Also the discount gained by buying a PATH Quickcard at $24 would be lost as well.
When they install the new turnstiles at 33rd St and Pavonia/Newport I will stick to buying separate cards.
There WILL be a savings if both fares are paid for by the MetroCard under the current set up
The amount needed on a Metrocard to cover a week (5 days) of regular round trip travel on both systems would be $35 ($20 subway, $15 PATH) in actual amount deducted from the card ($3.50 each way per day).
You are getting $35 worth (with that pesky extra dollar left over to make $36) to cover 20 rides for $30. That comes out to $1.50 per ride for a total of $3.00 each way. You save $.50 each way or $1.00 a day over the deducted cost. You save on the subway but not on PATH.
Now if we can only figure out what to do with the left over dollar. You would have to refill 7 times @ $30 to cover one days trips.
My apologies to all.
http://www.boarshevik.com/metrocard.xls
I made that list after the fare hike to figure out how to deal with the sub-$2 amount I had left on the card without ever adding less than $2.
Of course I mean $10.
When I was a kid, our family lived on Schenectady Avenue and my mom could never spell it out so she always told people she lived on E. 47th Street and the mail always got there.
I guess this shows that Bay Parkway once upon a time was called 22nd Avenue. If you look at the map, it is obviously in the exact place 22nd Avenue should be. But I don't know if old timers ever referred to it as such.
Elementary, my dear Holmes. :)
The refrence to 22nd Avenue hasn't been entirely removed, either. Signs near the ends of each platform proudly bear both names.
Thas the facts.
Elais
Specifically, no. But the desire exists, given the awkward and bottlenecking terminal operations at 2nd Ave. The TA has other priorities at the moment.
Amen, brother. (Or sister)
Just don't call me Surely.
...or anything that sounds female for that matter. I'm tired of people on the phone calling me "ma'am!"
If, that is, the V really is extended. The main question is, does Church Ave have now, or will it have in the near future, the capacity to terminate both the V and G lines. If so, great, the limiting factor is rolling stock and money to pay extra wages. That last part looks like it might be a bit tough.
Church Ave currently does not. However a reconfiguration would allow the turning of enough trains to handle the V & G (20 TPH should cut it).
Unfortunately, the MTA's goal in the past was to avoid using state taxes and keep down the fare. The goal in the future will be to pay back the money borrowed and costs shifted to avoid using state taxes and keep down the fare.
One route could be turned at Church and a second at 18th Ave without any difficulty. However, there isn't enough demand for additional service through the Rutgers St tunnel to justify sending the V to Brooklyn.
Elais
Does that work for your newspaper?
Wow! What will they think of next.
October 1, 1901
It lasted from September 30 to late December, 1990.
The K-cars were used on the Newark run, which gave the a/c systems some good time to work and cool the cars down....and there were very few station stops where the doors were open to let out all that cooled air and make the units start working over again.
The web site host, Robert Schwandl rob@metroplanet.de faces an expensive court battle that he cannot afford and would probably lose in Germany. So he is looking for a new name for the web site and his publishing company. However as he says "another option is that somebody who has some experience in web publishing and FTP etc. takes metropla.net from me and registers it in the USA or somewhere far from the E.U".
New names must be available, should end with .com or .net, and suggest the subject, which is mass transit throughout the world. The word "transit" has unhappy associations with the Berlin Wall, but any other bright ideas would be appreciated.
how's about metrosucks.com? would they still sue?
oh crap, are we still allowed to say Metrocard? And what about the M in MTA?
Only if they have an URL containing the letters "metro" in that order. For availability one can check at www.register.com.
If this is really happening, they are just trying to bully metropla.net out of their domain name.
«takes metropla.net from me and registers it in the USA or somewhere far from the E.U". »
Arti
There is actually history and law to this. "sucks" websites are protected by the first amendment if they offer legitimate criticism of their target. This is one case (maybe the only case?) where using a trademarked name is not a trademark violation. See, for example, exxonsucks.com.
HOWEVER, THE SITE MUST BE TOTALLY NON-COMMERCIAL. NOT EVEN A BANNER AD TO HELP DEFRAY COSTS.
A PC magazine writes, that a lawyer said, that there is no reason for
this attack.
That's why Robert Schwandl was thinking of looking for someone with experience in web publishing who would be willing to register metropla.net in the USA or elsewhere. Failing that, think of another good name that has not already been taken.
The most notable one is where McDonald's has been trying to own the rights to the "Mc" in any and all advertising, merchandising etc.
Several restaurants in the country where the owners name happened to have "Mc" in it have been sued. In many cases McDonald's won.
I don't understand the problem here at all. .com, .net, and .org are generic domains, meaning that they are not country-specific. No one in any particular country has more right to one of these domains than anyone else.
There are many trademarks containing "Metro" plus it's a generic term. If an ICANN complaint is made against him, we can defend himself on the facts, and probably claim reverse domain hijacking as well.
mplanet.com
metro-planet.com
The word "metro" is far too general to be trademarked.
What really pisses me off, is that every time they release a new domain name (e.g. .biz), ostensibly to increase the number of domain names so that there are enough to go round, I get deluged by emails telling me that my own .co.uk domain name is not enough, and I have to register all the others to prevent cyber-squatting etc. etc. Ho hum, its all a scam to increase the money paid to the domain registers.
I suggest that in the spirit of compromise, Schwandl offers to place a banner ad on his home page for "Metro Group" (never heard of them), and points out to them that .net domain names are not intended for directly commercial activities.
If anybody wants to write an EMail to the METRO, here is a adress:
Steinberg@Metro.de
The lady is waiting for your posts!!!
Other changes caused by METRO AG:
nuernberg-metro.de -> cityverkehr.de
berlin-metro.de -> untergrundebahn.de
Metro...stupid jacka$$es
I don't see where metropla.net has to go to Court at all. The registrar for metropla.net is SCHLUND+PARTNER AG. Schlund subscribes to the Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy. This means that if Metro wants metropla.net they have to file a WIPO dispute for a .net domain. They have to prove that metropla.net (1) domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights [arguable: does anyone believe that they are going to metro group when they type in "metropla.net"?], (2) does not have a legitimate use for the domain name [they do], AND (3) domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith. [this means you took in the domain name in the hopes of selling it to the complainant, or preventing them from having it--nonsense!]
The main issue is that they have to answer Metro's complaint--they can do that do letter or email.
HOWEVER, it look like that also have metroplanet.de. They might be vulnerable FOR THAT DOMAIN ONLY under German law.
The point is, that they have problems with the de-adresses.
So if you write a letter to them list only the de-adresses.
Dear David & everyMetrofan,
thanks for posting this good summary at nycsubway.org.
Once again I want to point out that this is not primarily a dispute about domain addresses but about using the term 'metro' for subway or U-Bahn here in Germany. I know that they don't have a right to claim it, neither here nor worldwide. But as I said before, we know more cases of people like me having lost the case for weird reasons, so I cannot take any chances. www.metropla.net is not really different from www.metroplanet.de as long as I'm the registrant of both and I live in this country, even if I registered it in another country, they still could go for me personally because in their opinion I'm violating their rights here in Germany. So forget about the legal issue, let's simply try to find an easy way out of this. Keeping www.metropla.net in the U.S. would mainly help to keep 1000s of links from other sites, but it could be a mirror site, too, William.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Best Wishes
Robert Schwandl
metroPlanet, Berlin
On the other hand if you, with your web site hosting experience, were willing to help or offer suggestions, I feel sure that Robert Schwandl would be very pleased to hear from you. If you are interested I encourage you contact Robert directly either via metroplanet yahoogroups or (better) e-mail him at rob@metroplanet.de. But you had better hurry while it's still possible!
Thanks very much, Paul. I am sure Robert will be pleased to hear from you, and you have already expressed some thoughtful opinions on this site. I don't fully understand the problem by any means either, and I lack your web hosting experience.
Some of these domain games really irritate me. I know of a case where a lady has a small but prominent art gallery, and she had a nice site named [hername]gallery.com. She inadvertently let the name lapse when she had a stroke, and not only was the name grabbed up by a dude overseas who is advertising the domain name for sale, but he took the net, org and biz versions as well, all for sale.
I mean, it's her own name, for Crissakes!
The newsgroup's website is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/urbanrail/
Anyone can apply to join the newsgroup, and receive email messages (individual messages or a daily batch).
I recommend the site to anyone who wants information about urban rail systems world-wide.
The grant is part of the $20 billion appropriation signed by Bush in 2001 and promised to rebuild lower Manhattan. And that is what it is going for.
If you feel you didn't get any say in this, it's your own fault. Everybody got a chance to put in their two cents, and so did you and so did I.
Everyone except Stephen Baumann, of course. They are all out to get him. :0)
It will hinder future funding not replace funding already in progress. In 5 to 10 years, other localities will point to this billion and say that it should now be their turn. There will be merit to that argument.
Take it while you can get it.
I see two problems with the take any money and run approach in this case.
First, capital expenditures should try to fund themselves as much as possible through a combination of decreased operating costs and increased revenues (riders). These projects will do neither and may actually raise operating costs and decrease ridership.
Second, this infusion of money will overwhelm the planning process for projects that might actually pay for themselves. The few sane heads at the MTA/TA will be overwhelmed by this billion dollar binge.
Experience shows that the cities that have done the best in funding, like Chicago and Boston, keep up the pressure and BUILD the projects they're funding in a reasonable time.
To put it another way, if NY turns back this money, I highly doubt it will help other projects at all, it will just kill the ones already funded. And even if your assessment is correct, the die is cast on this one.
You're missing the point. In this case, the money is intended to restore and create facilities which will allow private enterprise to attract residents and workers back into lower Manhattan. It is a prerequisite for rebuilding the WTC and should be done now, while the site is mostly an open construction pit. The Fulton Transit Center will displace a few marginal businesses whose loss, overall, will be of no concern and whose owners will have been compensated anyway.
Remember your argument about rebuilding the IRT, that full advantage was not taken of its open status? Well, that argument applies here too.
The article confirmed the commitment for the lower Manhattan hub. We need to get started on it ASAP.
There is always need to stop and think, even in war.
Consider one consequence of the haste in restoring 1/9 service in the wake of 9/11. They took out the 1918 plans and essentially rebuilt the line as was, without any thinking. Their only modification was to install a full crossover south of Rector St instead of a trailing point switch.
Consider the opportunity lost. One oversight with the 1918 design is the lack of layover tracks. Placing 1 or 2 layover tracks within the vicinity of Cortlandt St would have been easy because the entire site was open. It might have taken a couple of months to modify the 1918 box design and thus slightly delayed the reopening.
Haste makes waste.
Could it be that any deviation beyond the original "box" might interfere with the site's eventual development? Note that the PATH station is right on the footprint of the original station and, in any event, is temporary.
There was a fairly early concensus that Greenwich Street would be remapped. That should have set off alarm bells that the IRT could break out of the box.
There I agree with you. A few more months and some changes could have been made (and the Rector street Station could havebeen rebuilt to ADA compliance).
Your other points are good.
However, the Fulton Street Transit Center and new PATH terminal are not products of haste. They are products of an extensive planning process. The Fulton terminal is well-cobceived and really should have been done 20 years ago. Better late than never.
Most of the area east of the 1/9 tracks, between Vesey and Liberty, is just as available for layover tracks now as it was in March 2002. There is no significant additional cost in doing such a project now.
Putting layover tracks west of the 1/9 would have been expensive then and would be expensive now - they'd be suspended 30 feet in the air over the PATH station.
I suspect the reason NYCT hasn't considered this project is that they don't think it's particularly useful.
It is one of the reasons touted by the TA for replacing the South Ferry loop with a 2-track terminal for $400 million.
The "working group" found ways to squander the money and recommended them to the Transportation Secretary Mineta.
Understood, but I don't see that most of it is being put to good use in the provision of better subway service.
The money authorized by Mineta yesterday was never intended to expand subway service. It is part of a $20 billion appropriation to rebuild lower Manhattan. If New York had decided to use it to build the Second Av Subway, or a new subway in Queens, the feds would have objected on the grounds that it is not related to 9/11's destruction of the WTC.
The new PATH terminal, the Fulton Street Transit Center and the South Ferry Terminal are all acceptable projects because they are directly related to 9/11. The IRT line was damaged in the attack, and the reconstruction of any of its elements is considered fair game by the federal government. The pot of money it comes from cannot be used outside of this area. Period.
I sympathize with your viewpoint to some degree but the appropriation we are talking about in this thread could not be used to pay for the projects that you want.
South Ferry was NOT damaged on 9/11 - it does not NEED to be reconstructed. I'll give you lengthening the platform, but it does not need to be an island platform with two tracks ending in bumping blocks and a crossover some 300 feet out from the end of the platform. If I get the chance later, I'll post about last night's meeting.
That is not the consensus of most subway passengers, their elected officials, or within the MTA. It is the consensus of a few railbuffs.
"I'll give you lengthening the platform, but it does not need to be an island platform with two tracks ending in bumping blocks and a crossover some 300 feet out from the end of the platform."
OK. In which case you went to the meeting (good for you!) and told the MTA there was a better way to improve the station than the option they want to pursue.
For those unfamiliar with the area, the original exit from the South Ferry station was in the middle of the platform and exits to street level within the footprint of the new Terminal Building. If you look at the link above, this would be just above the black "point" within the Terminal footprint. The current "temporary" exit is in almost the same position as the #1 exit from the proposed station. (so much for being closer - at the most, we're talking 10 to 15 feet difference). For the sake of completeness, the current entrance to Whitehall station is midway between the blue circled 1 and the south end of the N/R platform on the Plaza side of Whitehall St.
While I was looking at the boards, Councilman Michael McMahon (D-North Shore) arrived with two of his people. After handshakes with those they knew, they began examining the boards and were unable to pick out the one they were favoring. Seizing the opportunity, I introduced myself as a resident of his district (true) and a NYCT Train Operator that had formerly worked on the 1/9 (true) that had serious doubts about the feasibility of the 'favored' proposal (also true). I showed him the 'favored' proposal and explained my reasons for disliking it - the crossover switch 300' or so beyond the end of the station (as opposed to right outside the station limits) and its concomitant Rule Book speed limit of 10 mph (no faster than the current approach to South Ferry); the lack of tail tracks beyond the south end of the station, which will necessitate timers in the station, slowing down the approach even more; and, the fact that there is no terminal set up in this manner that sees more TPH than the current South Ferry station sees, which implies that the new station would see a service decrease.
I then showed him my preference - extending the current station to the rear and explained why I liked this one - it maintains the connection between East and West side IRT routes; no time spent waiting for another train to get out of the way; and the fact that of the two other terminals that see a higher TPH, one is a loop and the other has approx. 600' of tail track (FWIW, the other thru-station with gap fillers also sees a higher TPH than South Ferry, so gap fillers mustn't take to long to work). While we were talking, we were joined by Congressman Vito Fossella (R-SI), who asked for a repeat of prior statements.
When the meeting proper commenced, Messers. Sussman and Wheeler from the MTA ran through the talking points about the new station, with the boards being shown on a projector screen (the Windows notebook running it crashed twice). They even ran the video (which can be found at the planning site) of a 1 train entering South Ferry. In order to prove the point of how slow it is, they paused the video twice. the floor was then opened to the speakers.
Vito Fossella - Congratulated everyone on getting the money; applauded plan; questioned the possibility of returning 5 service to South Ferry, using the current 1/9 platform once they have left for the new station.
Michael McMahon - Repeat performance of Mr Fossella; did question time lost by crossing trains (he was listening). {opinion}I'm not sure he is fully behind this, but probably sees it as better than no improvement at all. {/opinion}
Borough Pres. Molinaro - More congrats and 'about time's. Alas, he reminds me to much of some of my family members - I can't understand half of what he says.
A rep from State Senator Lachman with a prepared statement.
Mr X - This guy gets his jollies from hounding Mr. Sussman at these meetings. Tonight, though, he actually put forth the proposition of extending the 1 to Staten Island and then on into Brooklyn. It's the first time in years that he's come up with an idea.
Ferry Rider's Committee - Wanted to know how this was going to fit into the new Ferry Terminal, the design for which took into account the location of the 'original' exit from South Ferry. Was afraid that this new station exit would be an after-thought in an already designed area.
An unaffiliated man who raised some of the same points that have been raised on SubTalk - loops are better as terminals, crossovers need to be close to the station, loading statistics, etc.
Yours truly - Basically gave the same spiel that McMahon and Fossella already heard. Did mention that rush-hour 5 service doesn't terminate at Bowling Green and so was unlikely to be sent to South Ferry when it would most be needed. Also questioned the idea of 5 using the the current 1 platform - if it's no good for us now with the 1, why would it be OK for the 5? While I was speaking, Mr Sussman was busy writing, while his eyes were popping out of his head - I don't think he actually expected facts and quotes on Operating Procedures.
Newkirk Plaza David - Went on about signs and bad wording thereof, but nothing constructive to say about the topic at hand.
------- End of Meeting Report ------
These articles are from today's news:
http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/107054921941840.xml
Under the plan, South Ferry's current single-track, five-car subway terminal will be expanded into a three-track, two-platform terminal capable of accommodating a 10-car, full-length train.
The MTA is reviewing a request by Fossella to restore passenger service from South Ferry to the nearby Bowling Green subway station, the current terminus of the Lexington Avenue subway lines, also heavily used by Island commuters in Manhattan.
Some city officials initially opposed including South Ferry in the repair project, arguing it was not directly related to Sept. 11 and that all federal transit aid should be reserved for repairing the damage caused by the terrorist attack.
http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/107054923041840.xml
Rather than the "sharp curvature [that] slows train operation and generates excessive noise" and the "required mechanical gapfillers prone to breakdowns" on the edge of the platform, the new terminal would be a straight, single platform, serving two tracks with three entrances and handicap accessibility. The existing loop track will be retained for storage purposes.
The renovated South Ferry station would have underground access for riders to the N/R subway line and would permit an additional five subway trains to pass through per hour, decreasing commuters' travel time and making the station more efficient, said Wheeler.
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/fta5103.htm
* A $400 million grant for the South Ferry Subway Terminal—replacement of the functionally obsolete station adjacent to and under Battery Park. The project will transform the single track, five-car station that serves the 1 and 9 subway lines with a three-track, 10-car, stub end two-platform terminal, and will be located immediately adjacent to renovated Staten Island ferry.
Amazing, how overnight the new station has grown a second platform and a third track? Or will NYCT build one thing with funds granted for something else?
ROFL
You accomplished something here. How much of that will translate into changes in the plan? I don't know. But look who's ear you caught.
Sussman was taking careful notes. What you (and others) said will be reviewed.
Good job!
It would appear that the Feds agreed to fund a 3-track 2-platform terminal. The TA says it wants to build a 2-track 1-platform terminal and has presented this only this option on its website. My guess is that the TA will bow to the overwhelming weight of $400 million in hand and switch plans quicker than a fast talker can say "thank you".
How did the Feds get the idea of a 3-track 2-platform terminal? Did they think it up? Did the TA tell them that is what they wanted and tell the public something else? What's the point of trying to evaluate a plan (more of a concept on the MTA website), if the whole thing was a bait and switch sham from the beginning?
Sussman was taking careful notes. What you (and others) said will be reviewed.
A major problem with these public meetings is that the project's technical staff is not present. They are insulated by non-technical "community outreach" people like Mr. Sussman, who try to act as impeadance transformers. This presents two problems.
First, the public is denied first hand reasons behind design decisions, that only the technical people can answer. This makes such meetings far less informative and useful. It also eliminates the possibility of a more collegial, private exchange of ideas. The only way to get information is through the "community outreach" gatekeepers through a formal statement, which is a far more adversarial atmosphere.
Second, the project's technical staff is equally isolated from what the public wants. Technical decisions are based on juggling many options and weighing many priorities. Subjecting the technical staff to a half dozen public meetings, even if they are only lurkers, should give them a better handle on which priorities are really important.
Fair enough. I agree. However, do not underestimate what Sussman is able to do. For one thing, we don't know his educational background. For another, his correspondence to me conveys a sense that he does understand the issues fairly well, pays attention to what he hears and strives to return an intelligent answer to a question. And he and I have corresponded for a long time.
My comments were not directed towards Mr. Sussman personally, but rather to the limitations of "community relations". I would omit the words "like Mr. Sussman" to make that clearer in my previous post.
Trying to get information via the "community relations" route is like trying to carry out a substantive conversation through a non-simultaneous translator. It's time consuming and frustrating for all parties. Clearly, there is a need for a gatekeeping function but a rare public meeting should not be one.
I agree with your logic here.
Thanks also for your excellent reporting.
The new South Ferry Terminal will be built with sufficient overrun track south of the platform to allow trains to safely enter at higher speeds.
The crossover tracks north of the station will utilize state-of-the-art switching technology
The overall design of the station will provide capacity for up to 24 trains per hour.
Of course, they can claim anything they want on a poster.
Meaning that they have addressed the issue of the stub terminal.
"Of course, they can claim anything they want on a poster."
And if the overrun track is in the design, their 24 train per hour claim is very reasonable. So long as they build it this way, 24 trains per hour is what you'll get.
The TA knows how to build terminals with overrun (tail) tracks that have only half the claimed 24 tph capacity. Parsons Jamaica Center being the example.
Meaning that they have addressed the issue of the stub terminal.
"Of course, they can claim anything they want on a poster."
And if the overrun track is in the design, their 24 train per hour claim is very reasonable. So long as they build it this way, 24 trains per hour is what you'll get.
However, the South Ferry station has handled 28 trains per hour in the past.
It looks like the proposal for South Ferry will have a capacity of about 12 tph. That would force a 40% reduction in (maximal) rush hour service, on a line that until recently ran 12 tph on weekends (it's been since bumped down to 10 tph). Remind me to either move out of the neighborhood or arrange to never have to travel by the time this happens, since I won't be able to fit on the trains around here.
Nobody has ever answered: even if it's 12 tph (which I personally doubt), why can't they run 12 tph into the stub terminal and 12 tph around the loop, skipping S Ferry?
At least in theory (I don't know if it's actually carried out), terminating 5 trains are fumigated at Bowling Green. City Hall is a special case.
How many tph do you think it should support?
N Broadway
But you have some good thoughts there.
Why should New York now ask for LESS from the federal government (or the state, for that matter)? It's just a matter of being as brassy as always, and making sure the MTA returns to the NYC population in proportion to our taxes, Fulton St or no Fulton St. We should not act as if our "quota" was used up by a two tourist-centered subway stations.
See the problem? Even if this is a true gift, undoing the damage is a major expense. Most likely, 1/9 riders will be left to suffer with their service reductions for the rest of eternity.
The question then set up a situation where a train has been outside for five stations; what should the t/o do?
I don't recall what choices A and C were, but I believe that choice B was "turn off the lights" and choice D was "operate the momentary switch to turn off the lights".
The answer key shows that choice A is correct.
Can anyone remember what choice A was, and more fully explain the question and the intended answer?
(This was one of two that I got wrong, but I remember feeling unsure about this one as I took the test. I reread it several times, but still didn't quite get it.)
http://www.panynj.gov/airtrain/jfk_broch1.html
I presume this assumes that you time your arrival at Jamaica to catch a Ronkonkoma train.
Oh well. Thats another train to ride the next time that I come to the city.
But it lloks like fares are only collected at Jamaica and Howard Beach, regardless of which way you pass through the turnstyle.
I'll bet you'll pay to get on at Jamaica and Off at Howard Beach, if you tried to use the train for that purpose.
Elias
That is the plan. But with that $40 monthly pass it'll be quite valuable. How long does it take now to get from Howard Beach to Jamaica via mass transit? This will make it a 26 minute ride with one transfer.
CG
It is not clear whether the Q10 and other bus lines will continue to serve all the terminals or if they will just stop at either Federal Circle or the Lefferts Blvd station (where there will apparently be a passenger drop off area as well).
CG
In fact, the Q10 generally runs more frequently than the shuttle ever did and -- from my observation only -- is a higher quality and cleaner vehicle. "A" service from Howard Beach or Lefferts is at the same interval during most parts of the day.
CG
CG
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Aren't both airports run by the PA? Am I missing something?
It's cheaper to get a ticket from Penn to North Elizabeth and get off at the airport station, then buy a $5 mono-d'oh pass in the station.
I was referring more to the inconsistent means accepted of payment at what appears to be similarly situated venues (ie PA-owned Airports).
Additionally, there is incentive to use JFK over EWR when considering how to arrive at the Airtrain (ie off-peak discounts on LIRR vs. surcharges on NJT out of NYP).
My underlying point being that I would have thought there be more equality within the Airport systems themselves and, in addition, the systems used to get to the Airport, while not expected to be equal in the absolute (as I recognize they are separately maintain systems), may cause a knowledgable traveler to consider one option (JFK) more favorable over another (EWR).
Just another tourist/busniessman tax as I see it? However, it affects regular NY'ers just the same.
1) said route always runs express.
2) but if something affects the (W) at Onion Square, then ought not the (RR) or the (Q) and (N) trains also be affected.
Or has WCBS have no clue when Todd is not around.
Elias
Then why wasn't the (RR) skipping 49th Street.
Could be a break in the cross over.
But then why announce it at Onion Square instead of at Times Square?
Elias
David
Chuck Greene
Since I am in North Dakota, and wasnt planing on visiting NYC this weekend, I'll not call the number for you. My guess is unless the lines are swamped Friday Evening, they will find out about Saturday Morning on Saturday Morning.
We have some light snow now, with about three inches expected in some parts of the state today, but clearing on the weekend, which is good, because we have our big open house on Saturday.
Thanks to C-Division for keeping me on the MOD mailing list. I will make another ride when all of the planets and R-9s come into proper conjunction.
Elias
Elias, that is called the Branford eclipse. LOL
--Mark
Also: Someone said that if you put your finger in the crack between the doors on an R142/143, you'd get pinched when the doors opened. How?
That distinct click is the sound of the doors locking. Other trains have different types of locks.
"Also: Someone said that if you put your finger in the crack between the doors on an R142/143, you'd get pinched when the doors opened. How?"
Before the doors open the lock has to disengage. The doors have to move forward for this to happen. I have had my fingers pinched a number of times because I keep forgetting about this.
I don't really know - maybe it is an indication of masochistic tendencies???
"Doctor, it hurts every time I do *this*."
"Well, then, stop doing that."
Mark
1. "The Grand Tour": Covering every IRT ML station and route.
2. 7 only: covering only the IRT Flushing/Queensboro division only. Includes layover and tour of Corona.
3. BMT Southern Division
4. BMT Eastern Division
This HAS been done, and probably STILL CAN BE ARRANGED, I do not know what prices you have in mind, but think in excess of $2000 (for a private car on scheduled train) to 20-50,000 for a redbird excursion train.
Elias
I was on the ERA charter last December and the MOD trips are basically charters.
While these are non-profit organizations, I don't know if the TA can or would charter to a private individual or a profit making company to run trains through the system.
Also when speaking to an ERA official last year, he said that the TA was quoting a price of $ 11,000 for the ERA Redbird trip. While the final number may have been lower, its still pretty pricey for a birthday party or another celebration. Might be a good revenue raiser but its only for the rich.
--Mark
I don't understand why they're charging so much. Technically all you should have to pay is a few for the rental of the car, and maybe a compensation fee for the service. MAYBE the day's salary for the train crew. There's no way that adds up to thousands of $$$$, unless there really is THAT MUCH demand for rentals.
Insurance? Bull. Regular subway riders don't pay insurance.
If I recall correctly, MTA is self-insured. However, a charter trip with out of service or antique equipment might imply a slightly higher risk (???) and justify collecting an additional premium from customers.
Does anyone know how riders on MOD museum trips are covered should there be a collision or other problem, causing injuries, during the trip? Does the MOD have to put up a bond or does the TA provide its own coverage?
full R36 train: $1000 1st hour, $500 per subsequent hour
R33 Single (one car only): $500 first hour, $275 per subsequent hour
Prices including up to 10 guests, food and beverages. Each additional guest $60, under 17 $30.
Andy
Other comments range from “pathetic current terminal, a minute delay results in 20 minute to 1 hour loss of time due to the missed ferry connection”, to “the East side is off limits to Staten Islanders…” and want the #5 line to be included in the terminal. But you can’t have you cake and eat it too. When I was the last speaker for the evening, I gave my usual points to Mr. Sussman and company about the poster that Mr. X mentioned earlier, why have incorrect travel directions, but not until I was on the S79 bus over the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, heading towards Brooklyn, did I realize that I missed a golden opportunity to challenge the MTA on money wasted to replace a never, ever to be used escalator at Bowling Green station. Still the hearing was a feel good thing for me that as long as the MTA does not squander on the their share of the Federal money earmarked for Lower Manhattan; the SF project, as well as the Fulton St complex, will be a reality in 2007.
That's great. Thank you very much for getting involved.
Was anything at all presented by MTA regarding station capacity and crossovers? I'm glad that that issue was mentioned by speakers. Was there any response?
But the press was taking notes on my allegations too, and local Staten Island media was there too.
And you can alwayus follow up with a letter.
I used only 2 minutes out of 3 during Community Board 9's meeting on AirTrain when the project was up for consideration. I did that on purpose, because other speakers preceding me were going beyond 3 minutes consistently and the audience was getting annoyed. But what I said completely wrecked the airlines' presentation and their lobbyist came up to me outside the hearing room, yelled at me at the top of his voice and wanted desperately to slug me.
NY POL SLUGS DOCTOR AT AIRTRAIN HEARING.
It's a good thing you survived it.
The board vote to approve AirTrain was lopsided. It wasn't even close.
Bob Diamond's trolley project could have helped.
http://www.panynj.gov/airtrain/AIRT-0117_JFK.pdf
Of interest.
There will be three "branches".
1) Jamaica - counter clockwise around the terminal loop - Jamaica
2) Howard Beach - counter clockwise - Howard Beach
3) clockwise around the loop.
I think this is similar to San Francisco's new airport train.
Length of trip from Jamaica or Howard Beach to Terminal 1 -- 8 minutes.
CG
Go there for discussion:
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=615124
Also, the map shows a strange 'loop' that the East Side IRT trains supposedly run on at Hoyt St, instead of the earlier [printed] version I have, which used a half-black-dot, consistant with the rest of the Brooklyn IRT. I wish the MTA would just settle on a single method for showing these things. A half-dot is much better than drawing strange loop-de-loops all over the place.
The M runs much later than until just 5:45.
Could the fare be reduced if local stations were built on the line? This way, the fare hit could be distributed among a number of stations and people living in Jamaica and points south who don't have rapid transit service would now have a rail link to the LIRR and the J/Z/E trains, and the F train too if they want to walk up to Hillside Avenue.
CG
It had nothing to do with that. It was strictly a price tag issue, nothing more.
I agree that communities like East Elmhurst need and want more subway service, but that's a separate issue.
It is possible that MTA could give the PA money to build an intermediate station for AirTrain on the Jamaica leg, but that would have to pass muster first with the MTA and PA legal departments, who would no doubt check with the FAA's counsel to see if the FAA would oppose it.
I wonder if the idea that there is no direct service is what lets them get under the radar screen of not providing transit services.
CG
Rockaway Boulevard, OTOH -- with twice as much A service.
Or Euclid, with the C as well.
The city sold the PA the VanWyck median for inclusion within the airport, as part of the AirTrain deal. Any station on VanWyck would be within the airport boundaries.
I don't know those areas well enough, though, to say whether they aren't already filled with JFK employees.
CG
Does this map partially answer your question?
The map does not answer the question posed.
With a station, higher income airport employees might be drawn to live there by an easier commute. The question then becomes -- would they? One interesting note is that I don't think that the Van Wyck lies underneath any of the approach or take-off patterns for JFK -- so airplane noise might not be as much of a hindrance to improving the neighborhood as one would other wise think.
On this subject, I don't have enough knowledge to do anything other than speculate, though. (Hold your tongue Bayside Boy. Zip it.)
CG
Kennedy Airport has active runways serving the following headings: 310-130 (2 parallel runwaysat either end of the airport) and one runway at 220-040. There is another runway, but I don't recall its orientation. Usually one runway is designated for landing, and its parallel twin for takeoffs. Landings involve engines at idling or a low setting, so noise is not a major factor; obviously the takeoff pattern is the major factor.
If takeoffs are to the northwest, using the 310 heading,, Ozone Park and Jamaica can be impacted. If to the Southeast, Jamaica Bay gets the noise.
(Hold your tongue Bayside Boy. Zip it.)
Zip itty zooda, zppideday...
Kew Gardens traditionally has been home to a large number of airline employees. I don't know about JFK ground employees, but somehow the area along the Van Wyck seems a bit downscale to attract any but those in the lowest-paid categories.
In case anyone's interested, there's a rather amusing Newark-vs.-JFK thread now in progress at Airliners.net. It has rapidly turned into a New York-vs.-New Jersey flame war, or something close to it.
I think not. There is much more to revitalizing a neighborhood than giving it some better transportation. Mostly in needs new housing stock. Nobody who can afford better is going to buy (or rent) a run down wood fram house built at the beginning of the last century.
This neighborhood *does* have an advantage that few of the buildings are of the "old-law" style tennament buildings. All of the properties there seem to me (if I am thinking of them correctly) are within the purchase means of middle class people, who could knock them down and build something decent on the land.
Elias
AirTrain cannot be marketed toward local traffic because it's being funded through fees paid by air travelers. There's no choice or intent involved.
As far as the "Van Wyck Subway" is concerned, it was never a serious proposal even during the heyday of planning back in the 1960's.
This southeast turnout is visible in Map Quest aerial photos of Woodhaven Junction. It looks difficult to access now, as it seems to be a parking lot for NYC school buses. There are images of Woodhaven Junction on both Kevin Walsh's Forgotten NY and Tom Scannello's sites.
See also Bob Andersen's and Art Huneke's LIRR sites :
www.rapidtransit.net/index.html
Then click on "links" at upper right, and enjoy !
See also Joe Brennan's "abandoned stations" site.
Does anyone know when OZONE tower which was south of the Woodhaven Station on the Rockaway branch was torn down?
The underground station is not visable from the side walk. On the sidewalk are emergency exits to the platform. The original stairways to the platforms were long since sealed off.
This is a photo of Woodhaven Station from the book:
Compare that to my photos I took about 10 years ago:
What fate did it get? Except for the few stations north of Liberty Avenue that didn't get enough usage in it's later years plus one station South of Liberty (The Raunt) it was completely revitalized by the "A" Train. I am sure ridership increased as a subway, train frequency also increased, while fares went down. Although I'm not positive I'm sure the bulk of the ridership was in the Rockaways, and not the discontinued part. The bridge destroyed by fire was rebuilt by the city. As far as I'm concerned the fate the Rockaway Branch experienced was positive to say the least.
For those who might want to see it this way:
The NYPL call # for it is IRH 95-975.
You also need to have a NYPL Access card to do this, I beleive it requires that you live, work, go to school, or own property in New York.
Sort of unfair. From what I gather, Access Cards are not ordinary library cards, but are used to get access to noncirculating research materials. Some of these materials might not be located anywhere except in the NYPL. Requiring New York residency can cut off access for researchers who happen to live elsewhere ... unless, of course, the NYPL operates under the same assumption as the New York Times, namely that anyone who lives outside the city is a three-toothed hillbilly with a gun rack in his pickup and married to his 13-year-old cousin.
Back on topic about the book: Thats the only place I know of that has the book. I didn't see any Nassau County Library(East Meadow in particular, since I live there) have a copy of it, and usually you can find anything somewhere in Nassau County.
It took about 25 minutes for them to find the book, but it's definatly worth it, as the only cost your going to have is the cost to get there, as the access card and using the book is free.
thought i would pass this along
lot of fun
paul
p.s. look at things like google(beta)
web.archive.org
Isn't it weird?
No B train at Pacific St.
IMO, very minor quibbles. This is a track map, not a route map.
Next stop on the Sea Beach, Coney Island. OOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPSSSSSS!!!!
Ok, not yet.
This lead me to a thought.
Some years ago, reports came that said that the doors would act like elevator doors. But obviously, this is not the case.
Then again, there are elevators whose doors won't re-open even if you stick your whole body in the path of the doors.
It's the elevator at the 61st Street-Woodside station, which connects the subway mezzanine, the street, and Platform A of the LIRR's Woodside station.
Shouldn't the sensors work like most elevators do; when you put something in the doors' path, the doors would open, even when the doors are nowhere near such obstruction?
Those are optical sensors. The sensors in the subway cars are in the rubber gaskets on the doors meaning they have to come in contact with the object before they will reopen.
In the former case, optical obstruction detection is required
by NYC elevator code. TA elevators may actually be exempt from
the code, but this sounds like a defect that should be reported
to the appropriate structures department whose phone number
is posted on the elevator control room. OTOH, elevators are
permitted to have a "nudge" mode where, if an obstruction is
sensed continuously for more than 30 seconds, the elevator
concludes that the sensor is defective and closes the doors.
What does this woman need? A hammer to hit her on the head when she darts in total disregard for her safety?
:0)
Her lawyer will probably allege that the safety procedures in place (bells, crossing gates, presumably honking trains) were inadequate to protect the woman.
What do you think went through the engineer's mind when he saw her?
"Where's the compassion for the girl."
The article says she escaped with basically a few scratches and maybe a broken leg. She's lucky to be alive, and she's in one piece.
"nuff said.
That was pretty nasty, even for a joke...
She's so ugly, they won't let her travel to London because her face would stop Big Ben.
Seriously, though, I still can't figure out the big flap a couple of years ago when Rosie admitted that she chewed the carpet. Christ, how could anyone not have figured it out long before then??
VC Madman
VC Madman
You are correct. Keep in mind she was only 39 years old. Only a child.
Somehow I don't think that would make any difference... there obviously isn't anything in that bump on her shoulders that would be affected :-)
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Unfortunately, the cops will probably have pity on her and not trouble her with one.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-litres043569863dec04,0,3180290.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines
Of course, she's not going to sit down and write one, is she?
:0)
The LIRR should have made their crossing gates ADA compliant.
Not with the "frequent" headways on the Ronkonkoma Line.
Bill "Newkirk"