http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/132714p-118402c.html
--Randy B.
Why is Eric Gioia spreading falsehoods. The subway is far, far quieter than even one decade ago; and two decades ago the flat spots and stick rail had the trains sound like thunder (or a more accurate sound-effect to the analogy of “God bowling”). I myself am quite impressed as to how quiet the subway has gotten over the years—this being one thing that I must commend the MTA on doing and maintaining.
If Signor Gioia wishes whisper-quiet subways, then let him eat cake and provide funding for pneumatic tires for the subway trains, like in Paris, France…(heck, it may even help trains make grades better, so why not)
If Signor Gioia wishes whisper-quiet subways, then let him eat cake and provide funding for pneumatic tires for the subway trains, like in Paris, France(heck, it may even help trains make grades better, so why not)...
Or, let him move to Baltimore, where we actually do have relatively quiet subways (except at the Upton jog). Relatively BORING, also!
As for myself, I actually liked NYCTA's "track music" in the days of old. I especially remember a ride uptown on the Westside IRT express from 42 to 96 sts (this was '88 or '89). The track going thru stations was smooth, but between stations...classic railroad cacophany.
--Randy B.
Those lights (in L.A.) look like the ones used on Staten Island Rwy.
Bill "Newkirk"
Bill "Newkirk"
wayne
I guess you could say its "close enough" but another example of why you can't research history in the popular press. The station was Prospect Park, then as now. The tunnel portal was at Malbone Street, now Empire Blvd.
A grim and solemn day in New York transit history. Let us never forget those who perished.
wayne
I can think of several reasons that thecrash would not have been as severe if BRT Standards were used instead of the elevated train involved, but when talking of structural integrity, I wonder how R62s would have done, considering the devastation of the Union Square wreck.
Also, as it happens, the R62s are analogous in size to the BUs in the wreck.
INCREASED Speed may have been a factor... but in either case the 62s seem to have held
their posture better.... (yes, Virginia, I know they're made differently).
The wooden cars (#80 and #100) in the Malbone Street wreck pretty much disintegrated as a result of impacting with the tunnel walls and each other.
wayne
If we're comparing Malbone to Union Sqr, then let's also note that
in Union Sqr, the upper carbody of the 62s involved didn't TIP FORWARD like the Malbone cars did.
I know of no evidence that the Malbone Street cars tipped forward. The picture below shows 80 and 100 (the two trailers) that were the most damaged. The cars tipped SIDEWAYS as the result of angular acceleration.
INCREASED Speed may have been a factor... but in either case the 62s seem to have held their posture better.... (yes, Virginia, I know they're made differently).
Increased speed of which train? The best estimates suggest the Malbone Street train was going 35 to 40 mph as it entered the curve. How fast was the Union Square train going?
Wayne said:
Well, in the Union Square wreck, #1437 (first car) whiplashed so violently that its rear swung round clockwise and collided with the girders, cutting off the last 15 feet or so, #1439 (second car) bounced off the ceiling and wall but stayed on its feet, #1440 (third car) almost got cut in two when #1439 tried to pull it into the clearing and it hit the girders sideways and the next two (#1436 and #1435) suffered damaged ends plowing into #1440. So aside from the first two cars I would have to agree with you there.
The wooden cars (#80 and #100) in the Malbone Street wreck pretty much disintegrated as a result of impacting with the tunnel walls and each other.
Which perpetuates the common misconception that the Malbone Street cars telescoped ("impacting [...] each other"). Fischler says: "The third car had so much velocity behind it, it fused with the second." Nonsense, they did not. Again, see the picture above, the platforms were largely intact.
Remember also, only two cars, the trailers, about half the weight of the motor cars and a much higher center of gravity, suffered severe damage.
The train was made up of 726-80-100-725-1064.
726, 80 and 100 derailed. 726 suffered about $700 worth of damage (1918 dollars, 1/2 material, 1/2 labor), 80 and 100 were effectively demolished.
But 725 and 1064 did not derail. 725 suffered $500 worth of damage, 1064 no damage at all.
************
And remember the point: Mayor Hylan summed up the issue in two words: "Wooden Cars" but the Union Square cars were all steel, and all motors. The saving grace of Union Square (if there was one) was that it occurred early in the day. If it had occurred in rush hour, as Malbone Street did, it might easily have eclipsed the latter for horror.
Union Square - speed varies by account. The press reported a speed of 45MPH entering the switch; I would tend to agree with other accounts giving the speed in the neighborhood of 35-40MPH. The time of the accident was 0011 hrs; and even at that hour the train was reported to be fairly well loaded, with passengers standing.
Two what-ifs: 1) what if that trainset been link-barred (this was said to be the last one still needing the link-bar treatment)
2) what if that trainset had been made up of Jerome's 9200-series R33?
wayne
Had the tunnel walls been smooth, rather than "serrated" with protruding girders, 80 and 100 might now have been so completely destroyed.
Paul, Did you find it unusual that there were two trailers coupled together, instead of a motor-trailer-motor-trailer-motor combination ?
Would a M-T-M-T-M consist still have derailed under the same circumstances ?
Bill "Newkirk"
BTW - Like the calendar ?
Paul, Did you find it unusual that there were two trailers coupled together, instead of a motor-trailer-motor-trailer-motor combination ?
It was unusual and was blamed on hasty and perhaps unskilled make-up of trains because of the strike.
Would a M-T-M-T-M consist still have derailed under the same circumstances ?
Probably the wreck would at least have been less severe. It was reliably speculated that, if the third car had been a motor it would have stablized the train. As it was the fact that the third car (100)was a top heavy trailer made the wreck worse by pulling 80 further off the track. The damage to 80 was greater at the rear (i.e., next to 100) than at the front. The lead motor 726 did derail but suffered relatively minor damage despite the fact that it hit the S-curve at the highest speed. Neither of the two rear motors derailed.
So your speculation is valid.
BTW - Like the calendar ?
Sorry I haven't mentioned it yet. I haven't had the time to give it the attention it deserves. But I can easily say, of the three I've seen it's the BEST yet! Seriously! I love some of the pix, like the color view on Liberty Ave while the IND ramp was being built. I also like the MS in the wilds of Canarsie and some really pretty shots of modern equipment.
P.S. Salaamallah will swoon for that pix of a redbird on the Washington Mall!
It was unusual and was blamed on hasty and perhaps unskilled make-up of trains because of the strike.
Stan Fischler said in his book that despite careful research, he was never able to find a photograph of a BRT consist with two trailers coupled together.
Where and in which book? What is the context? Is he saying that wasn't the consist of the Malbone Street train?
Ah, you meant Cudahy, not Fischler.
The point is taken, but there is no doubt that the trailers should not have been coupled together. SOP was to place M-T-M-T-M--never two trailers together.
Exactly how the Malbone train ended up M-T-T-M-M is curious. Frankly, I can't picture how it happened, but undoubtedly has something to do with confusion from the strike.
Oops, you're right. I constantly confuse the two.
And if the R62's were involved in the Malbone Street wreck then the loss of life would of been reduced greatly.
If he wasn't the worst Mayor in the history of this city, Hylan certainly was the craziest and most paranoid.
Actually he could have been an excellent mayor, he was intelligent and a "self-made man." His weaknesses included that he was a protege of William Randolph Hearst, who both schooled him in demagoguery and shared his hatred for "the traction interests."
I think he personalized his hatreds too much, even for a politician.
He's also the guy responsible for the installation of one of the worst pieces of public sculpture in history, "Civic Virtue". It was originally set up in front of City Hall to almost universal derision, and was ulitimately dispatched to Queens Borough Hall by Fiorello LaGuardia.
No matter what he was, the fact is the same: untrained for the job he took.
According to Brian Cudahy's book, which is probably the most authoritative account of Malbone Street, Edward Luciano was a dispatcher. It was a largely clerical job that entailed keeping track of what motormen were assigned to what lines, and things of that sort.
Some dispute exists over exactly how much motorman training Luciano actually had. In addition to the minimal training he received right before being pressed into duty, it is possible that he got more extensive training some months prior to the wreck. It may have been given as prelude to a anticipated promotion or just to improve his dispatcher performance. No one seems to know for sure, or for that matter just how extensive the training really was. In any event, the fact that Luciano was selected to fill in for striking motormen - almost surely, most non-operating BRT workers were not so chosen - may indicate that his supervisors knew that he already had some exposure to motorman duties and would pick it up quickly.
IOW, there were no flat spots or other irregularities in any of the wheels that would have suggested the application of emergency brakes, either before or during the wreck.
A major problem in Malbone Street research is that Luciano had to depend on the company's version of the wreck to avoid conviction. It was not the era when an accused had a team of lawyers to make up a plausible version for himself. Nowadays, Luciano would be assisted by three teams of individuals: a lawyer team to portray him as a victim of the Company; an investigatory team to poke holes in the police and prospectution accounts ("what, you didn't take fingernail scrapings to prove Mr. Luciano was even on that train?", and spin doctors to promote his future best-selling book.
My point is that Luciano himself had the answers to a number of questions that have been proposed and (IMO) mostly answered by forensics. But there are issues of motive that he could have answered himself, but he couldn't before the trial, and there was no 1919 version of Woodward & Bernstein (or Larry King, or Oprah, or...) to follow up.
There is room for expanision to the north of the presently shown terminal at 116th Street, and there is a possibility of a line running south along the West Side Drive past the WTC site and thence on to Staten Island.
with the following details downtown, observe how it does not connect with or disturb any existing service downtown.
Elias
I saw that when I superimposed my new route on top of may master map.
I did some reworking of the route:
Now it will only run under the (L) in the vicinity of Lorimer Street, making a good (albeit deep) connection with both the (L) and the (GG).
Elias
It is on a small server in my office, running on a rebuild pentium nee 486 with a static DSL line.
Try it again, otherwise I can email them to you.
(Email runs on the same server, and it is working.)
Elias
It looks like it would be simpler (and would avoid multiple levels on Metropolitan Av) to run the L train under Bushwick and Utica whilst running your new line via South 4th St and under the former Bushwick Terminal to take over the Canarsie Line at Jefferson St.
Yes, but... This is a carefully thought out thing (I think). The new line comes in on the unused tracks at the Second Avenue station, the ones that the designers had intended to go to South 4th Street anyway. From there, and without normal interlocking to the existing IND, they will divert to Bleeker Street for their cross town transit to 9th Avenue. Bleeker Street was chosen for although the line will have to be verry deep to clear all of the existing routes, it is otherwise free of subterianian infrastructure at the depths that this line will pass.
Indeed, I am thinking that the city ought to pass a law to the effect that property owners do not own the land all the way down to the bed rock, but only to a depth of x number of feet. Transit lines could then bore through the bedrock with little regard to surface property rights, with the caveat that they not undercut or cause damage to the existing surface structures.
Elias
Tom Kelly
John J. McCarthy
(212) 878-7440
IMMEDIATE
#60
FINAL REDBIRD SUBWAY TRAIN RETIRED FROM PASSENGER SERVICE
On Monday, November 3, 2003 the last of the 40-year-old Redbird subway
cars will be retired from passenger service. Retirement of the Redbirds
from service was made possible through the MTAs 2000-2004 Capital
Program investment of $2 billion in high-tech subway cars that are more
comfortable and reliable.
At approximately 10:30 a.m. on Monday, the 11-car Redbird train will
leave Times Square on its last passenger run, making all local stops
along the No. 7 Flushing Line to Willets Point/Shea Stadium. MTA
Chairman Peter S. Kalikow, MTA Executive Director Katherine N. Lapp and
NYC Transit President Lawrence G. Reuter will be on board for the
historic trip. The train will be removed from service upon arrival at
Willets Point and placed on Track 2 for a press conference.
Those wishing to make the trip should be on the Times Square No. 7
platform at about 10:15 a.m. The press conference at Willets Point/Shea
Stadium is scheduled to being at 11:15 a.m.
-Stef
Say, are you that Redbird fan who's losing sleep over their demise ? Well after November 3rd.....sweet dreams !
Bill "Newkirk"
Overcooked statement from the TA Kitchen.
Them 142s have YET to prove themselves reliable...
Comfortable??? Only if you like sitting in seats only a chiropractor could love to pieces.
PUNCTUALITY seems to have more to do with how it is OPERATED.
wayne
Will this be broadcast LIVE anyplace??
It would be nice if there would be some sort of "last run" signs or logos on the cars to mark the occasion.
I'm at peace with this. I said my goodbyes to them on Friday, Oct. 24. Let's just say I am thankful for having had one last opportunity to ride on them.
No doubt you know this - the Orange Line originally was a traditional el from Forest Hills to just before Chinatown, and from North Station through Charlestown to Everett. Both stretches were replaced with newer surface or open cut lines in 1975 (northern part) and 1987 (southern part).
But you're right... another piece of el history will go away. Fortunately the wonderful el will remain from the Charles River through Science Park to Lechmere.
I find Chambers St/BMT the most interesting.
Elias
My vote is with Broadway-Nassau -- at least from the passengers perspective.
CG
I don't understand. In 1931, the Cranberry tunnel (now A/C) wasn't there yet. The Nassau St line wouldn't have crossed a single other subway line, except for the current 2/3 at Beekman St., on its way from Canal to the Montague Tunnel.
Nassau St may be very narrow, which is why they needed the 2-level station, but it wasn't particularly congested with other train tracks the way Herald Square was.
BTW, what was your old handle?
The genius part of your post was way uncalled for though.
It does take some getting used to. For example, the passageways from the Q/W platform to the 6 don't go straight up, but go at quite an angle. Once the R wasn't running so I wanted to go over to the uptown 6, and I was surprised that I pretty much had to walk all the way to the J/Z to get to the uptown 6.
Also, IIRC getting to the uptown J/M/Z from the street is confusing because you have to enter at the downtown side.
Agreed. It badly needs a re-do. Canal Street Hub, anyone?
And special guest starring appearance by AirTrain. :)
OTOH, you can't beat Jamaica for vertical complexity:
-Airtrain/crossover
-LIRR platforms
-LIRR mezzanine/crossunder
-ground / LIRR ticketing
-TA fare control
-E
-J/Z
Go down 1 flight of stairs to the LIRR concourse, walk east, and go up a flight.
Not convenient? Well, it is close to 1/5 of a mile, so how convenient can it be? It's the distance that's the issue here, not the complexity.
If only the LIRR could figure out a way to get rush-hour expresses to bypass Jamaica at a speed in excess of 10 mph. Considering they've had many decades to figure it out, I'm not too hopeful.
But the Feds said, "you spent too much on Hillside Facility." The LIRR said "oh, well, getting through Jamaica fast isn't as important as we thought it was."
Wayne
Some parts of Broadway Nassau have passageways outside the fare control area that let you walk underground for quite some distance (But not like 47-50 Sts on the IND)
Broadway Junction upper level is quite the sight when you see all the steelwork from the J/Z/L Lines.
Which are the 2 stations on the IND 6th Ave line where there used to be a passageway between the 2 stations because they were so close together? Was it 34th to 42nd? Or 42nd to 47-50 Sts? It was mentioned before but I forgot.
This is what I live for...
It is NOT gone, but it was never TA or City property (as far as I can figure things out.)
As far as I can tell, it was built in the building vaults (of Gimbles and of the Hotel), that is under the sidewalk, not under the street.
Since with the demise of Gimbles and its subsequent tenents, nobody could agree to clean and patrol the tunnel, and because, as I have said, it is private property, the liability for such said tunnel is huge.
Elias
Maybe I shouldn't have said gone. Like the passageway between 34 and 42 Street under 6 Avenue, the one from 6 to 7 Avenues is CLOSED.
Maybe the City should condemn and seize it, for it would be an asset to the transit infrastructure.
Elias
- Times Sq.
- Broadway Junction
- Herald Sq.
- Fulton Street
- Atlantic Ave./Pacific St.
- Canal St./Broadway
- Union Square
Koi
As for complex trackage, that honor surely goes to DeKalb.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Complex (as a whole): Times Square AND Port Authority. Honorable Mention, Fulton St/Broadway Nassau
Express stop only: 34th st/IRT 7th Ave
Local Stop only: 15th St Prospect Park/IND (Try this maze)
Most Interesting station: 174-175th sts/IND Concourse Line. One time this station had 6 different exits and is the only underground station that sits atop an expressway (Cross Bronx Expressway). Pretty much, most stations on the Concourse Line are very interesting because of the former and current underpass exits. Very few stations actually required you to go downstairs in order to exit the station.
What shit are these people smoking and where can I get some?
#3 West End Jeff
Exterior (5):
To Eastchester:
Old (5): TO E'CHESTER-DYRE
New (5): TO EASTCHESTER-DYRE
To Nereid Av:
Old (5): To NEREID AV
New (5): TO NEREID AV-238
Interior (5):
To Eastchester:
No change
To Nereid Av:
Old (5): TO NEREID AV
New (5): TO NERIED AV-238ST
Exterior (6):
To Parkchester:
Old (6): TO PARKCHESTER
New (6): TO PARKCHESTER AV
To Pelham Bay Park:
Old (6): TO PELHAM BAY PK
New (6): TO PELHAM BAY PARK
To Brooklyn Bridge
Old (6): TO BKLYN BRIDGE
New (6): TO BROOKLYN BRIDGE
Interior (6):
To Parkchester:
Old (6): TO PARKCHESTER
New (6): TO PARKCHESTER AV
To Pelham Bay Park:
No change
To Brooklyn Bridge:
No change
Other things on <6>
LEXINGTON AVENUE EXP
BRONX LOCAL
This is just unacceptable.
about a month ago, a typical new haven and harlem OMEGA board would say:
1230 N. WHITE PLAINS FORDHAM 1ST STOP
1240 STAMFORD MOUNT VERNON 1ST STOP
1252 BREWSTER NORTH WHITE PLAINS 1ST STOP
NOW LOOK AT THE SAME BOARD A MONTH LATER OR SO
1230 N. WHITE PLAINS FORDHAM 1ST STOP
1240 STAMFORD MT VERNON EAST 1ST STOP
1252 SOUEAST (BR. N) WHITE PLAINS 1ST STOP
If the 2 is running on Lexington Av in both directions, it is really a 5.
-Stef
some even have BROOKLYN LOCAL? just use the 5 TO WAKEFIELD-241 ST or get the r 62s.....E 241 St White Plains Road Bronx
man the MTA really needs to get their act together here
And all of the trains I saw yesterday had 5 to Nerid Avenue so I don't know what you seen.
Try this......
http://www.mta.info/nyct/trantran/showsch.htm
Bill "Newkirk"
This is what the final assignment will be (subject to change but unlikely at this point):
1/9: R62A
2: R142
3: R62
4: R62A, R142, R142A
5: R142
6: R142A
7: R62A
S: R62A based out of Jerome
some lines and cars just go together, like the 7 and the R36. The 4 and R62. The A and R44. Too bad the the 7 has lost much of its R36's. It had for many years kept a exclusive model class of cars to itself. Maybe when the next IRT car order comes, the 7 will again get a model of cars for itself.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Mind the gap!
wayne
2. Is the 5 terminating at Flatbush, or Bowling Green(since I saw Flatbush on the train, even though Bowling Green can be displayed for (5) and <5>)?
O.Zamora
The Van Courtlandt Madman
BTW what did the 5 trains say going N/B? did you say any WAKEFIELD-241 ST?
The 5 trains were signed to Nerid Avenue local (The outside said Bronx Express but the interior signs and announcements were for local)
VC Madman
VC Madman
All you have to do is tell them the (2) is running on the east side, what is the problem? unless they think there is no 5 train and they will squeeze on the 4
Also the 5 has updated announcements and can call itself 7 AV EXPRESS
while the 2(unless it is an updated 5) usually won't say LEXINGTON AV EXP
Again I say they should use r62s for this job.
At least the off peak <5> had redbirds......(which would take care of anyone actually thinking it is a BRONX EXPRESS) the r142s are pitiful, hopefully the r142S can have 5 TO WAKEFIELD-241 ST(which would have easily been there if it wasn't for that 241 st terminal congestion crap in 1995) but again the MTA likes to do things the hard way
As for why there isn't a 5 to WAKEFIELD sign, I have no idea, but Neried Avenue isn't that bad.
Moving R62s or R62As for this is a waste of time. As usual, everyone is handling it fairly well except for you.
-Stef
That's what I'm trying to say as you have mentioned, but I guess the GreatOne sees what he wants to see. Whatever, I won't waste my breath.
-Stef
-Stef
----
and all sorts of unused street names
----
what sorts of unused names? all the names that I used are used and/or recognized by others. Even the maps still recognized old names, like 7th in Harlem, etc so don't get on me for that. Plus the old Queens(and others) street names threads that pop up in here as well.
Enough about street names, I was talking about the equipment issue here, and I heard someone telling the S/A about a C/R or T/O switching a 2 to 5 which causes more confusion. So don't think this is just me here(as you generally seem to think)
I was pointing out the all of the r142s are not capable of some announcements(2 AND 5). And yes the TA should have used some 5 train equipment(if the didn't already) since they share yards. But since they want to do things their way..... I will let the customers voice their complaints to News 12 or NY1 since the MTA is already unpopular(and you can't say it is only me then, now can you)
And yes this is me seeing what I "want to see" or whatever so there
This is NYC, don't you know that old names die hard? 69th Street Pier...anyone
Now that I know that they were using only 2 trains(I thought some were using 5 train equipment) the lack of 241 St is understoodalthough the 5 trains aren't that updated as well, so there still woul be a problem for accuracy (although I still think something should be done about it)
That however doesn't excuse any trains being signed for E 180 ST(in both directions) or E'CHESTER-DYRE, that is still inexcusable regardless of what you say
Yeah I sure do see what I want to see
but let me clear this misunderstanding up to clear and ignorance(as you put it) here
1. I already know the #2(and #5) electric signage isn't updated(which proves a point I made before about the r 142s not being better equipped for the job) that's why I brought this up in the first place and why I suggested other cars to be used. And that is also why I hope that the r142S would be better prepared for this, ugh.
2. I originally thought they were using some #5 trains on this, not just all #2 trains(since the #5 was running as a shuttle and #2 and #5 share yards here), but since they were using #2 train equipment, I GET IT(although I think it was a dumb move, but that's my opinion). But as I said before the r 142s are pathetic so it wouldn't make much difference which equipment they used(unless I am wrong about the #5 equipment not having WAKEFIELD-241 ST, if so then feel free to correct me). Of course common sense would have the MTA to use as much 5 equipment as possible since most of the stops(except Brooklyn local) would be covered more accurately on the strip map and on the announcements.
3. But of course there is something I do not understand....well actually maybe I should, as to why C/Rs and/or T/Os are putting obviously incorrect signage up like E 180 ST and E'CHESTER-DYRE during this G.O.. And switching 2 and 5 signage in the middle of the route, doesn't help either(but lack of crew training or laziness is really the problem in most of those cases).
And that is "what I see" for some of you
You just don't get it. Its not a matter of C/R laziness, its a conductor trying to work through a situation. Maybe he should have put all signage off and made manual announcements.
If the signage had been updated, there would be no need for the C/R to sign the cars up for Eastchester-Dyre or East 180th St. But I will admit, if the #5 assigned cars had been used with the updated announcements that would have worked better.
If you still don't understand, then I can say no more. How many times can I say something to you and it completely passes in one ear and out the other?
-Stef
Ugh, let me make this simpler here...since we are obviosly looking at this from different views here
I thought ALL #2s CAN show 5 TO NEREID AV(I saw this before with a #2 strip map) OK, if they ALL CAN'T show that(which would be really sad) then yes some C/Rs had to work with what they had and I UNDERSTAND THAT. I just didn't get why they would be using Dyre, if Nereid was on the program. That is the way I was looking at it(that is what #3 was referring to). Note I said if Nereid WAS ON THE PROGRAM, meaning if IT WASN'T, then 5 to E 180 or whatever would obviously have to be used, or the map although 5 to Dyre I still disagree with (unless the train doesn't have E 180 St on it). But some used 2 to 241... again I was going on the assumption that the #2 could show #5 from Flatbush-Nereid
But I heard many other #2 trains were showing Nereid and the 2 that I saw didn't, so I assumed that the crew didn't place the correct signs on those trains. That is why.... and also seeing an S/B train signed for E 180 ST didn't seem to help either(even you have to admit there was something wrong with that one)
But if there are some #2s out there that can't show Nereid then I GET IT, I just thought that all 2s could at least show all 5 "official" terminals, maybe I have given the r142s too much credit, who knows
hopefully you will finally understand what I am getting at here, or do you still think that I don't get it?
Am I right that the updated trains couldn't show 241? just asking, if so, then the point that I made still stands, that is also what I was mentioning, in saying that the #5 should be updated to be more flexible(and so should the #2 obviously)
So don't just think that "I see what I want to see"
Admittedly, I am not entirely familiar with the readings of the updated signage for R-142s on the 5. I would think the updated signage was far better on the 5 than that of the 2.
If only I had destination sign readings of the R-142s handy....
-Stef
As for night service, I would like to know also.
I eventually took a 1 down to 14th St, to the L to Union Square, to a 5 running express in Manhattan and local in Brooklyn AFTER Nevins to get to Grand Army Plaza.
Sure it was nice that there was nothing posted about no 2 service, but if you're on the west side, that's pretty much the only late night route to Brooklyn via the IRT.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Here are the old "credit card" sized ones from earlier on:
See everyone on Monday -- Wear those nametags proudly!
I plan to wear one, although I may modify it using a custom image.
Take one of the larger tags. Print out the tag at 50% of it's size. Then paste it onto the back of a Metrocard. Don't paste the tag over the hole. Then rig a string or chain through the little hole in the card, and Viola!
That's how I am wearing my tag.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Some ML IRT runs in Manhattan are pretty exhilirating too.
THE NEXT STOP IS
BRONX PARK EAST
instead of
BRONX PARK E NEXT
THE NEXT STOP IS
NEREID AV-238 ST
instead of
NEREID AV NEXT
and other things like UNION SQ-14 ST need more room as well
It also is an indicator that this train is (somewhat) updated.
Updated
2 TO WAKEFIELD-241 ST
5 TO NEREID AV-238 ST
5 TO EASTCHESTER-DYRE
5 TO CROWN HTS-UTICA
6 TO PELHAM BAY PARK
6 TO BROOKLYN BRIDGE
Not updated
2 TO WAKEFIELD-241
5 TO NEREID AV
5 TO E'CHESTER-DYRE
5 TO FLATBUSH AV(trying to go to Utica of course)
6 TO PELHAM BAY PK
6 TO BKLYN BRIDGE
I am not counting 6 TO PARKCHESTER AV, because that is an obvious mistake and is an example of new tech taking a step backwards, but yes that does count for an updated 6 train
I bet a group of lawyers were paid for that.
Took an uptown <5> this evening from 59 Street to 86 Street. It was signed as a <5> going to Neireid (which I now know is correct. I thought it was strange that a 5 was going there on a Saturday, but now I know that it was planned, so the signs were correct).
The announcements were correct in regards to the (6) voice doing her appropriate parts, but the part of the bitch was played by someone else! There was a VERY pleasant voice doing the train identification messages and transfer messages! It wasn't the (6) voice, so I have no idea who it was. Long live the pleasant voice!
Also, on that same <5> train, the interior messages were flashing:
<5> TO NEREID xxxxx (I don't remember the full name of the stop.)
<5> 86 ST NEXT
<5> 5:03 PM
So this train said 86 ST NEXT instead of the usual THE NEXT STOP IS / 86 ST. I was about ready to die of insanity, but it wasn't over yet! Oh no....it certainly wasn't over yet.
Returning in the evening, I took a downtown (4) from 86 Street to 59 Street. The announcements on this train were done by the usual bitch/(6) combination, but the transfer messages were done BY THE GUY!!! And they were wrong! They didn't announce the (W) at 59th! I've never heard an incorrect transfer message for 59 Street on the (4) or (5), or one done by Charlie!
*passes out*
regular voice from the 2:"This is a Bronx bound 5 express train" sexy voice"The next stop is 138St-Grand Concourse" when before it was the sexy voice that was making all the announcements along with the voices from the 2!
O.Zamora
The Van Courtlandt Madman
regular voice from the 2:"This is a Bronx bound 5 express train" sexy voice"The next stop is 138St-Grand Concourse" when before it was the sexy voice that was making all the announcements along with the voices from the 2! Oh yes,and the 2 train strip map was on as well!
O.Zamora
The Van Courtlandt Madman
O.Zamora
The Van Courtlandt Madman
Link to lots of pages explaining the most commonly used HTML on the forums
Totally.
What do ya say?
No, the Savin Hill, Fields Corner, and Shawmut stations are being completely rebuilt (Charles/MGH, too).
#3 West End Jeff
IIRC about 1958 there was a light (empty) train going thru the same S-curve. It had a properly trained T/O and was going onto the curve at 3MPH. The train derailed and hit the tunnel wall like the other train did. Nobody was hurt. And the train wasn't badly damaged.
Talk amongst yourselves, I'm schpilkis. :)
I had always thought the later derailment was with some old BMT cars.
Some new dreaded disease, highly contagious with a 100% death rate?
wayne
#3 West End Jeff
The walls looked more like the Chrystie Street tunnel.
What am I not getting here. What are the walls like in the tunnel under Washington Ave. on the outbound side of the shuttle?
As a matter of fact, the Franklin Shuttle does not *nromally* run through that tunnel at all.
That tunnel brings the Franklin Shuttle into the southbound local track of the Brighton line. Basically it is almost into the north edge of the Parkside Station.
Get off of a Brighton bound Q train, at the rear of the station, and look down the local track. I do not know (since I have never tried it) if you will see the wreck site, but you ought see the tunnel.
Elias
Which jaggedness probably contributed to the death and destruction. Derailment against smooth tunnel walls might not have been so devastating.
Moreover, the power was resumed within a minute or two after the crash, as shown by powerhouse time records, which is before many people could have climbed out of the cars onto the trackbed.
what a fun saturday night.
tim
wayne
Do they have ability to operate over the bridge on the weekend in the event of a blockage??
So today, I had to go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art for a school project. Just for the heck of it, I decided to take the Q44 Limited all the way down to Jamaica Center to catch the (E) at the first stop. I wanted to railfan all the way to Lexington Avenue - 53 Street to see how accurate the BVE route was. (There really IS a "36 MILE" sign between 71-Continental Ave and Roosevelt Avenue - Jackson Heights!!) The T/O had his leg out, propping his door all the way open until we hit Union Tpke. I stood just behind him so he wouldn't be able to really see me, but so he would know my presence was there. Right before we got to Union Tpke., he finally closed it, so I went right up to the window for my perfect view.
Well as luck would have it, while we were stopped at Roosevelt Avenue - Jackson Heights, the C/R made an announcement saying that the (E) was running on the (F) line, and that the next stop would be 21 Street - Queensbridge!! What luck! I get to forcibly go through the 63rd St. tunnel!
It was a nice ride. From my experience riding the (F) through there, I know it gets rather slow from 36 Street to 21 Street. But this T/O took us through there pretty fast! I nearly got thrown out of my position on one of the turns. I decided to ride the (E) back to Queens after I was done with the museum.
After returning to the Lexington Avenue - 63 Street station, I just missed an (F), which I didn't care about anyway, so I walked to the far end of the platform and sat down. Shortly after, an (E) came in, but there was already someone at the window. Some punkish looking guy, who was leaning against the door, and seemed to be standing there if only to prevent me from looking out. So I let that (E) go and sat down to wait for the next one. I expected an (F) to come next, but no! Four minutes later another R-32 pulls in. Window open. I run on, and, CRAP! The T/O has his leg out, and he's holding his door open. So I stood just behind him again, just out of his peripheral vision. I didn't want to make it look like I was staring into his cab, because I wasn't. There's nothing special about an R-32 cab anyway. I was just trying to get the best possible view out of what LITTLE I could see of the railfan window.
Anyway, the T/O noticed I was there, because after we stopped at Roosevelt Island, he jumped out of his seat and started staring me directly in the eye. I pretended I didn't see him staring me down by looking off to my left a little. After the doors closed, he sat back down to continue driving, but he still kept his door propped open. I resumed watching from where I was, getting a couple more nasty glances from him. With nothing more to see, I got off at Roosevelt Avenue - Jackson Heights and caught an R-62A into Flushing. Whoop-dee-doo. But as I was getting off at Roosevelt Avenue - Jackson Heights, I glanced at the roll sign and noticed that it said the train was going to 179 ST! I'm all like, "What the hell? *lol* The (E) doesn't go to 179th St.!" Then I looked down..........
The train was actually an (F).
Ya know, I SHOULD'VE stood next to the T/O cab and stared right in for the duration of the trip. Maybe then he would've closed the door if he didn't want to be watched. Why are T/O's so "private" anyway? Bus operators don't get any privacy.
As for R32 F's, been there, done that. I've seen so mant R32's F, it's not funny. You have a better chance on the weekends, though.
wayne
I'm hoping the RF god has mercy on the ACMUs...
It's a free country...
If you fail, will you immediately be sent to hell?
Don't the R-46s already have that black coating over the window to prevent glare? Same with the R-142s and R-143s. I don't think that a newspaper would be necessary.
Besides, the R-62A's don't have coating OR newspaper. But then again, those windows are a lot smaller.
It's extremely common on weekends for E's to run via the F between Roosevelt and 2nd Avenue. Check the weekly service advisories.
Give the T/O a break. They are responsible for the safety of up to 3,000 people on a train. If the T/O you got is uncomfortable with your standing there, find a seat, sit down and do your "railfanning" next time. You owe it to the other passengers to not do anything which could distract a T/O's attention. If a T/O doesn't mind your being up at the front window, that's fine, but that's the T/O's decision, not yours. People's safety is more important than whether or not you got to railfan the 63rd Street tunnel.
You can always hang out in the rear car. You'll see pretty much anything you want except the signals without bothering anyone.
By the way: Bus drivers don't like people constantly looking over their shoulders and hanging over the front windshield.
Fair enough?
However, I stand by my comments too:
To all rail buffs: When a T/O looks like he/she is uncomfortable with your standing next to them, closed door or not, SIT YOUR ASS DOWN IN A SEAT OR MOVE AWAY FROM THE CAB. PERIOD.
First, when were these two cars taken out of regular service and sent to their current owners? Was 1612C designated for historic service in 1965 or was it later?
Second, does anyone know 1612C's original as-built (1907) number?
Also, if anyone has any idea what type of motor, control, truck or braking these cars had I'd be interested.
Thanks in advance, and also MANY thanks to the people who have posted responses to my earlier questions!
Frank Hicks
First, when were these two cars taken out of regular service and sent to their current owners? Was 1612C designated for historic service in 1965 or was it later?
Do you mean these particular cars? That I don't know. But of course the Q's left service in 1969 with the end of the Myrtle L.
Second, does anyone know 1612C's original as-built (1907) number?
1417.
Also, if anyone has any idea what type of motor, control, truck or braking these cars had I'd be interested.
Don't know if I have these details or not. But I know the QS ended up with those lousy maximum traction trucks from the Composites.
Frank Hicks
The BMT standards had similar trucks with one powered axle each.
The wheel diameters that stick in my mind are 34" and 31", but I'm not sure that's right.
The Q cars were built from 1400 series motors on the ends (A and C
cars) and 1200 series trailers (or de-motorized 1200 motors) as
the middle B car.
The trailer cars had Peckham 40 trucks. The motor cars had one
ALCO Z-380 truck with a pair of WH 300 motors and a Peckham 40
trailer truck. Control was WH251-I3.
In the 1950s, when these cars were sent to cover the 3rd Ave L,
they received the trucks which the IRT Composites had gotten
in 1915 when those cars went to the L. These were IRT special
trucks, sometimes called "Hedley Specials" after the President
of the IRT. The IRT subway trucks had the usual arrangement of
two motors on one truck and a trailer truck. This was too much
weight concentration for the older elevated structures so the
new truck was designed with one 120HP motor (GE259?) per truck.
The motor axle had slightly larger wheels than the trail axle.
Because of the smaller motor (120 vs 200 hp) these trucks were
slightly lower than either the ALCO trucks originally under the
Qs or the IRT subway trucks originally under the composites.
1400s were fast cars at 400 hp per car, but the later-day Qs
with 240hp per car and a 2/3 motor/trailer ratio were slow.
There are rumors that some Composite bodies have survived somewhere
in the midwest.
Frank Hicks
The "restored" train of "BU's" still have the lowered roof that all the Q's got. Despite the "backdating", including the removal of the doors and the ends and the work to close the car sides to the BU state, nothing was done to bring back the orginal trucks, not like NYCT has them just sitting around in CI.
And for those interested in a very historical World Trade Center / PATH item, see eBay number 2200138712, and for those interested in the Rockaway Peninsula see eBay item 2200140741.
Additional photos are on this Webshots page.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this Q Train will be rerouted over the Manhattan Bridge, for service to City Hall, Cortland, Rector, Whitehall and lawrence street, Tranfers to the Available brooklyn bound W train at the Canal Street N R platform. The next stop on this Q train will be dekalb Ave."
"Once again, Passengers who are heading City Hall, Cortland, Rector, Whitehall and lawrence street must transfer to the brooklyn bound W train at the Canal Street NR platform."
Well, it about time that the DOT has finally finished the Southside repair work! NO Ratholes for the Q :)
Must be weird things going on. When I look at his posting it says posted Sun Nov 2 03:49:56.
Rathole is the offical Subtalk term for the Montague. The name has been established through force of hundreds (thousands?) of repetitions of the word by Sea Beach Fred.
Damned near CHIT myself when I actually went down and RODE a few in 2001 ... and MIND ya, I'm *USED* to "rot" ... I worked in the hole in the early 70's when the whole system was already "el toro caca" ... Even when the LoV's and the arnines got their date with "Torchy," they were still in *FAR* better shape than the rotbirds when THEY were "retired." :(
Good old New York Times - all rhetoric and jingoism, and BS for journalism. :(
Reality - the els were indeed painted with lead paint. So was everybody's APARTMENT! When a landlord hires a contractor to "repaint and mitigate," they bring in people to scrape off what *CAN* be scraped off the original bare wood and sheetrock/plaster ... STILL some lead remains despite the best efforts. In older DUMPS, there's plenty of layers still that were just painted over with flat latex. I wouldn't WORRY about the els, I'd worry about the window casement, ESPECIALLY if it still opens ... :(
Yo! Mark GREEN! Where is ya? :)
This means the WHOLE OCEAN is contaminated!
And even worse than Lead Paint is Dihydrogen Monoxide
but getting back to the els I do not think you will find someone kid picking up a paint peal off the street from an El and putting it in their mouth. that will most likely happen off someones old window sill
CV-66; if I recall corrected, was already ordered when CVN-65, the Enterprise, was launched as the first nuclear-powered carrier in the fleet (Enterprise was accompanied by the USS Bainbridge, DDGN-25, and the cruiser Long Beach, CGN-9, making up the world's first nuclear-powered naval task force). America and Kennedy (CV-67, still on active duty) were the last oil-fired carriers to join the fleet.
From the Nimitz on all carriers are nuke, the Enterprise is still active, long beach and brainbridge were scrapped a few years ago. I wonder what they did with the reactors. and the news paper is worried about lead base paint
Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.
5-Because all 2 service is suspended all 5 trains will be making all 2 stops in the Bronx and Brooklyn via the Lexington Avenue line
3-All 3 trains will terminate at 137 street City College
4/6-All GO's scheduled for this weekend have been canceled.
Also if this keeps up tonight due to this recent fire: as in the past weekend, when the 3 does not run late night, every other 2 will be rerouted to 137/CC. Fortunately when I had to deal with this Saturday night it didn't seem to affect the Bronx too much early on and headway remained the same.
There were photo ops the past three nights, however, but I guess no one acted on it.
Your Always Questioning Railfan,
Chuck
Michael
Washington, DC
An LRV.... HMmmmmm......
Elias
Yes it is. But on these old bridges. Yes they were built with rails in mind, but that was 100 years ago. Trains are heavier and faster, and trains do seem to go through tunnels faster than over bridges.
Still, I am sold on the idea of a 34th Street Mall...
With LRV running between large park-and-ride garages both in Queens and in New Jersey. For the Joisey side, yes, I am thinking a tunnel, but for the East Puddle side, I am thinking of a slender arching bridge leaping the line across the river, just the line with no provision for non-rail vehicles, although a pedestrian walk might be nice.
Yes it is. But on these old bridges. Yes they were built with rails in mind, but that was 100 years ago. Trains are heavier and faster, and trains do seem to go through tunnels faster than over bridges.
Still, I am sold on the idea of a 34th Street Mall...
With LRV running between large park-and-ride garages both in Queens and in New Jersey. For the Joisey side, yes, I am thinking a tunnel, but for the East Puddle side, I am thinking of a slender arching bridge leaping the line across the river, just the line with no provision for non-rail vehicles, although a pedestrian walk might be nice.
Well, it does not need to be any higher than the Brooklyn or Queensboro bridges. Trains are already on the 02 level when they come off 34th Street, so they will not have to climb as fast as those on the MannyB. The park-and-ride, depending on where it built, could have the LRV connections on the 03 or 04 levels...
Seems quite doable to me.
Elias
However, when it did have trains, one of the W train's predecessors on the Astoria Line most certainly went across it. Whether it went to City Hall or South Ferry, I have no idea.
The Queensboro (aka 59th St.) Bridge had el trains on its upper deck, north side, from 1917 until 1942. It also had trolleys on the outboard lanes of the lower deck, which stopped running in April 1957, the last trolleys to run in New York City.
The Manhattan and Williamsburgh Bridges still have subway trains running on them, and will of course continue to have the trains. The best view is to take a J or M train over the Williamsburgh into Manhattan in the morning, when the sun is behind you and the Manhattan skyline is clearly visible ahead of you (sadly missing the WTC towers).
And on the subject of bridges - a neat bridge is on the 1/9 IRT subway between 215th and 225th Streets. The Broadway Bridge, which carries vehicular traffic below and subways on top, is a lift bridge with two tall towers. It crosses right over the Metro North Hudson Line at the Marble Hill stop.
And if I would have my way, those bridges would again be closed to automobiles. Make it busses, trucks and taxis only.
Elias
Regards,
Jimmy
J Approaching Marcy Avenue From The Willy B
J Entering Myrtle Avenue From Manhattan
J Exiting Marcy Avenue Towards Manhattan
A Nice Shot of a J Train Exiting Cypress Hills (Rich Color)
Another Shot of the same J Train Exiting Cypress
A Pic of a J Train Exiting Marcy Avenue Towards Manhattan
J Train Entering Cypress Hills From Manhattan with a nice forest Look in the Background
J Exiting Marcy Avenue Towards Jamaica Center
A Possible Fall Foliage Contest Contending Photo
An R-143M Train Posing Proudly
The Same M Train Posing in a slightly different Angle
An Old Style Photo Showing the Entire Length of the J Train at Cypress Hills
The Willamsburg Bridge and Buildings Reflect off the Rollsign of the J Train
Do you have any more photos further east on the Jamaica el (75th Street to 121st Street) ?
Seriously: I would guess they're going to open it up around the same time PATH reopens to WTC (Nov 23). Look for AirTrain to begin operating by Thanksgiving.
Howard Beach is much more nearly finished than Jamaica.
My point too. The previous poster was probably looking at the Jamaica section and saying no way it'll be ready this month.
Videocameras!
Or, they could do what they do at my school: Coat *all* the surfaces with this neat resin. After it gets scratched, you merely need to take a polisher and scrub over the scratch, and it disappears.
--Julian
P.S.
What kinds of vandalism do we tolerate on the subway?
Here's what I don't mind:
- The scratchiti that's actually done well, so well that it doesn't look like multiple scratches
- Cheap paint on the windows (I once cleaned one of those off with a wet napkin), they're the definition of "not permanent"
- And of course, the graffiti that was before my time, back in the 80's =)
Does anyone have any images of the vandalism that was talked about earlier in this thread?
Ben F. Schumin :-)
wayne
wayne
wayne
wayne
I can see what you mean about the 'panel tiling.' It doesn't look as authentic.
AND they may still do panel tile down in the IND. Look for spray-painted (usually red or orange) numbers on the original tile and/or
studs and cleats affixed to the walls.
wayne
The scariest thing is that large amount of the old tile has already been scrapped down by the MTA. What horror.
wayne
74th Street-Roosevelt Avenue will have art. It's the law. 1% of the budget for a station rehabilitation has to go for art.
David
wayne
wayne
www.bondo-online.com
wayne
Bill "Newkirk"
Be sure to wear your nametags! ^_^
Eddington PA (Note to engineer: thanks for the horns)
http://www.trainweb.org/oaksmodelrr/Video/Index.html
Stills coming and going at Eddington and Eddystone
http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW.html
Larger versions of approach shots
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=37745
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=37746
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
http://www.trainweb.org/oaksmodelrr/Video/Index.html
Next runs this weekend will feature Amtrak P32-8's for power.
Photos here
They'd make more money if they got ride of it, because it would draw residents and business back into the city, and there'd be more economic activity to tax in other ways.
Mark
I dont' know what it takes after the proposition though, unlike what some mayors seem to like to think, they don't have exclusive power.
Mark
I'm about 93% sure I am.
Is anything special going to happen, like an appearance by R-33wf 9306? That would sure tip the scale for me.
Koi
Regards,
Jimmy
Robert
wayne
Location was given as near 1st and Cortlandt Street Mt Vernon.
Sorry for posting misinformation.
wayne
Thanks
What was all this space meant for? Surely, the architects and engineers of the 70's & 80's (so brainwashed by minimalist, "form-follows-function", ethos of Le Corbusier and the Bauhaus) couldn't possibly have made that glorious space for aesthetic purposes only.
:0)
John
I've never really seen what's so great about St Pancras. Okay, it's a nice station (and so much better than either King's X or Euston - it's this comparison that probably makes it look so good), but I really prefer Paddington, the Brighton side of Victoria, and Waterloo. If dead stations count, the old Birmingham Snow Hill was quite magnificent, especially given the approach through the Great Western Arcade from Corporation Street.
For interior, to me there's nowhere quite like Paddington (please, please, please, don't knock down span 4!!!), although I can see the Grand Central thing (I had a poster of GCT on my room wall in Halls last year).
On the Underground, Baker St (H&C/Circle) wins for me. Pity the rest of the station isn't as good.
Paddington has a great interior, though here I would also give York an honourable mention as a through station. I cant comment on Birmingham.
There are two distinct styles here: Paddington and York have large open areas containing ticketing, waiting and trains. Grand Central has a wonderful atrium for ticketing and waiting, but the train areas below are nothing to write home about.
Baker Street has been nice ever since the late 70s when they cleaned the black brick and we discovered it was sandstone coloured underneath, and the indirect lighting was a great design idea!
John
I guess I take St Pancras somewhat for granted as a place to disappear into the underground from. It is also a very cold place to wait for the 2340 train back home.
Baker Street has been nice ever since the late 70s when they cleaned the black brick and we discovered it was sandstone coloured underneath
A sight evidently not seen for a hundred years.
Quite how did the Polo Grounds shuttle end up at 181st? (And I don't mean wise-ass routings like "reversing at 167th St then round the South Ferry loop".)
Mark
Grand Street on the ? line. Its always changing.
Grand Avenue - Newtown on the Queens Blvd IND.
Metropolitan Avenue/Grand Street - On the IND Crosstown
Another guy shouted that he loved briefs. Then he stripped to show us.
Nah, there rest of us here aren't surprised.
I'm also willing to venture that the retirement of these cars in 40 years will be greeted with as much if not more nostalgia as the retirement of the redbirds. For example, these were the first cars with automatic announcements and strips on the sides showing the next stop. In due time, these cars will develop their own personality just like the redbirds. And the ultimate passing of these cars will be just as sorrowful.
However, 30 or 40 years in the future will probably find me drooling - not because of the scrapping of the cars but just because I'll be drooling as a fact of daily life (if I have a daily life then).
Like I said, you do not deserve any awards for being a redbird lover. Sorry. Thanks for your cooperation.
I got it... you're going to fly the train to Cuba.
Sorry I can't be there this morning for the Big Event. Maybe I can see the train here.
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AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Wonder what it is? or maybe this guy is J. Beresford Tipton. :)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
It's funny, there's really no mention of the Hoboken el in either the Newark subway or Hudson-Bergen light rail pages- probably due to a lack of sources on this subject. Perhaps Kevin Walsh should do a Forgotten page on this long-gone elevated trolley line.
While most of the destinations looked familiar, I noticed that 137th Street, 96th Street, and 138th Street-3rd Avenue were also listed as destinations. I guess these are turnback points.
Michael
Washington, DC
Coming to NY on Thursday for 5 nights of dancing
Did you happen to ask the price?
I asked the price of the numberboards on the table first, and as a result felt there could be no dealing with that vender.
Gaithersburg is about 65 miles away.
I was telling you the distance I traveled to get to Gaithersburg. You obviously live a lot closer!
It be great next time we had a large SubTalker (or BusTalker, most of the DC people are on the other board) gathering in DC if you were able to join us. You would be more than welcome!
Each year I vow I am not going back to Gaithersburg because I am so intimadated by the traffic in trying to get back on I 270. I'm afraid that driving to DC would only be worse.
Something happened in my original message, probably because I used some symbols. The bottom sign was express (pointed to the left) and local (pointed to the right) for the #7 line. Something happened when I used the < > characters.
Michael
Washington, DC
I think you must have seen the sign before me.
The bottom roll displayed 7 Flushing Local-Express.
The top roll was displaying Special. I turned it back two, to Willets Point, Shea Stadium.
IIRC the middle roll was set to Times Square.
Michael
Leaving Thursday for NY
When buying from vendor (TA) themselves..... we don't get that LOWER treatment.
It's too bad that the R-142 announcement system designers weren't paying attention.
A few months ago, for a GO, SB 5 trains were running down the West Side and through the South Ferry loop, carrying passengers to Bowling Green. Now, 5 trains can be signed as West Side trains, but only if they're going to Flatbush or Utica. So this GO was signed either as a regular 5 to Bowling Green (with manual announcements made all through Manhattan) or as a West Side 5 to Utica or Flatbush (with manual announcements made at Chambers and South Ferry).
Michael
Washington, DC
That surprises most.
Looks like 9th-10th Avenues converted in 1948, 1st-2nd in 1951, and the rest 1954 or later.
Lexington and Third Aves - July 1960
Madison and Fifth Aves - January 1966
Sixth Ave. - around 1957 north of 34th St; 1963 south of 34th St.
Seventh Ave. - 1954 south of 42nd St.; 1958 north of 42nd St.
Broadway - 1956 between 59th and 34th Sts.; around 1963 below 34th St.
Eighth Ave. - 1954 south of 59th St.
Amsterdam (north of 72d St) and Columbus (north of 65th St): 1951.
Hope this helps
And to complete the story, 9th/Columbus and 10th/Amsterdam Aves. (another poster already noted) were the first ones, coverted in 1948 below 72nd St. (10th) and 65th St. (9th); in 1951 extended northward to 110th St. (still unchanged today).
Sorry about the double, the subject needed changing.
I'm guessing roughly 1968.
When I first started visiting NYC from the suburbs in the 60s, I don't think the connection from the FDR to the Major Deegan over the Willis Ave Bridge was available - and probably that was because the bridge was 2-way.
Here's another tidbit:
The first conversion of a street to one-way traffic in NYC was on December 17, 1791, the same day the Bill of Rights was adopted.
(Win some rights, lose others!)
I'd be very interested in seeing more information on the creation of one-way streets in Manhattan. For example, were Manhattan's east-west streets established as one-way by the 1811 plan, or were they converted later? If they were converted, when was this done?
1924: Battery to 57th Street
1927: 57th to 110th Street
In fact, at one time, Columbus Circle was two-way: One could navigate it either clockwise or counter-clockwise.
The next time the ADVOCATE'S Kevin McCallum calls Dan Brucker for a favor or for some unusual information he may find he gets a pretty crappy response.
Other than both being Cab cars, what do they have in common?
Real subway fans won't need a hint.
5264 was R44 100
5754 was R46 500
John
I was only a "stupid kid" about 7 years ago and I don't remember anyone around here throwing eggs at someone else. Just busses (the drivers would often stop to let us bomb the bus).
You know there are assholes out there, you got to protect yourself.
That may be true, but I can't remember anything in the 2 halloweens I'd worked about a C/R being injured.
In 2001 I worked the F and 2002 worked the A and both times I don't remember seeing anyone with eggs even near a train.
Not saying there's not, just that I didn't hear any severe incidents over the radio .
Why is that?
wayne
I can see where an egg could oose under or into a pair of safety glasses, or even knock them off, as is likely enough what happened in this case, but a good face shield isn't going anywhere.
Elias
Robert
Robert
Mark
Larry, RedbirdR33
There is a new virutal world program/chat called oddly enough There.
Is anyone interested in joining?(there.com). Maybe someone here will create a subway to ride on through the online editor.
I am on the waiting list for the free trial. According to Leo Laporte of Tech TV's Screen Savers who I have found to be quite honest he and his daughters loves it.
Thank you,
Flushing7
If someone wants to get to someone, there is always a way of getting to them.
Do you suspect someone is out to get you? Is that why you think the Halloween Parade is more dangerous?
Yes.
If you did miss it, I'll bring you there.
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/mermaid2003/mermaid2003.html
Are we talking body paint, or just totally topless/nude?
Thanks for answering though.
Maybe they know something we don't?
Is there anyone else who dislikes the current logo?
Also curious as to why many of the New Haven Metro-North trains have not changed over to to the current logo. They either still have an "M" or the State of Connecticut seal. Others have the current logo.
By the way, I'm new here. My name's Amanda and if I were not going to school for journalism, I'd drive a subway :)
However, it seems like the new logos were fresh applications, like the TA peeled off the old logo and put on the new ones, unlike the Long Island Rail Road, where the new logos went on top of the old on.
You can see the shininess from where the "M" was peeled off.
And you're only as old as you make yourself out to be. I doubt you'll be in the geriatric ward any time soon :)
Michael
Washington, DC
My name's Amanda and if I were not going to school for journalism, I'd drive a subway :)
My other car is a Redbird :)
www.railfanwindow.com
Is there anyone else who dislikes the current logo?
Yeah... I prefer the "ta" logo to the M, but the modern insignia is the worst.
As for the logos, they technically aren't wrong for being there. As far as I know, the riding public could really care less what logo is used. Besides, I know the MTA will be placing Centennial logos, possibly over the old ones, so all of them will be gone. The 'Meatball' is cool, not as much as the original 'TA', but better than the 'Pacman' MTA logo.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Several of her exploits can already be found at darkpassage.com
www.forgotten-ny.com
wayne
For those living in or near Canarsie, the same fencing is still in use behind the properties that used to abut the old ROW (check the backyards of some homes along 95th Street from Flatlands south to Seaview Avenue).
I'd gather that the fencing is either 100 years old or close to it...
Bill "Newkirk"
BTW, my friend just found a 30-day card this week that still has a week left on it.
1 - Might encourage purchasing of more cards and perhaps they will be discarded with money still on them that the TA doesn't have to return.
Getting money and not having to provide any goods or services, other than the cost of the card = 100 % profit.
2 - More space in the dumpsters = less labor to empty them.
3 - Helps keep platforms clean and encourages collecting and swapping of cards.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
It is a signed copy too.
Elias
Video clip (2MB, wmv)... don't expect it to be up for long, I only get 6MB for my Unix account and I need most of that for schoolwork...
Yes I know it's a bit shaky, but you try tracking a train while kneeling on top of a narrow wet concrete wall with a fence down the middle...
Anyway, the crew of the Mount Vernon saw my NY Central shirt, they had the NYC logo on their uniform, so of course we exchanged greetings...
I would have stayed to chat, but a girl from my building had just gotten off a niagra-falls bound train, and yadda yadda yadda I now know where her room is...
Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.
What I'm wondering is - does anyone know when this car was retired, and what happened to it after it left the NY rapid transit system? I know that it was stored on the Gettysburg Railroad until within the last five or ten years, but I don't know what it went through in the four or five decades prior to that. I'd also love to learn any mechanical or dimensional information about the car. Thanks!!
Frank Hicks
I never saw the car but I understand that it has knuckle couplers, and seats from an old schoolbus. The open platform hardware is supposedly mostly or all gone.
I am under the impression that Sloan has owned the car for many years. He could be reached at the K & K in Marienville, and may have more details.
It was fitted with MU plugs for Type M control in 1902.
I believe it was a blind trailer, not a control trailer.
The length should be 46' like most of the Manhattan El cars
from the steam era.
Aha! Thanks for the correction. That puts 782 in a tie for "third oldest" with 824. Interesting... I wonder if they were part of the same order.
Frank Hicks
WHAT DID YOU WANT ON H & M CARS I have mesurements but little on
equipment types Subway Al has a large file on H & M cars.
They probably were not in the same order, but could have been made at the same time. The following is excerpted from a NYERA spec sheet from 1956.
782 was part of an order (729-790) of closed gate trailers in 1880-81. They had 16 windows in a 6-4-6 arrangement, seated 48, and were built by Pullman.
824 was part of an order (791-825) of closed motor cars in 1880-81. They had 16 windows in a 6-4-6 arrangement, seated 48, and were built by Pullman. It is noted that 824 was made into an instruction car in 1902.
I notice on the spec sheet that Gilbert & Bush is credited with building the next number group of cars, 826-919 in 1887.
I hope this helps,
Karl B
I could be wrong but that is how I interpret their roster.
Hope this helps!
There are probably not too many people interested in this old info except for "old guys" like me. I don't have a scanner so I can't post anything.
Wrong! :^)
Pg 1 Introduction to the printed issue.
Pg 2,3,4 Marker Lights 1882-1955
Pg 5 Manhattan Rwy Passenger car Specifications
Pg 6 Manhattan Rwy Locomotive Specifications
Why don't you send me an Email if you want me to copy it!
Let me know if this is what you want to do and I'll go out and buy stamps tomorrow! :-)
Frank Hicks
I don't know if anyone would want to talk about their feelings to me, but if you're interested look for me. I will not be wearing a name tag, but will probably be wearing my faded blue Skee Ball cap. I look like a tall skinny Woody Allen and I'll have a SONY camcorder.
I've never been on an end of a line or car type trip before... I was quite pleased with how much freedom the MTA gave us... The train sat at Willets Point for quite some time... I was intrigued with the single car and its fans... I was very surprised to see a section of carbody that was covered by red tape...
If anyone wants a copy on VHS, just drop me an e-mail with your name and address...
Now you see why in come and go like the wind, sometimes I move too fast for myself. hehe.
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A nice story that links the decline of cities with cars and buses and their revival with rail.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#The
Like I said, this was three years ago. Has the downtown come back more since I was there last? I hope so. St. Louis's old buildings are some of the most beautiful pre-art-deco skyscrapers ourside of Chicago. A downtown that pretty deserves to be alive.
Any by the way, the St. Louis Metrolink is one of my favorite light rail systems. The airport access is great, and the use of the old freight tunnels with their beautiful hundred-year-old masonry arches make for great subway stations today.
Mark
Mark
AEM7
Why has the airport ride slowed? When I was there in 2001 I stayed at an airport hotel and rode to the convention center every day. It was more like a 40 min ride when I was then.
Mark
(I get to make remarks about St.Louis. I have a grandmother from there, and I'm a Midwesterner. But, honestly, when I was there I spent an awfully long time looking for something to do downtown -- Michalovic's right; they need downtown housing worse than a lot of other cities).
Having spent time in and around the St. Louis Bus Station in the middle of the night in the early 1980s, I found it dangerous enough without living there 24/7.
Mark
More residences in Downtown probably would make the area safer.
Here's a writeup of my trip on my website that tells more about the these things:
Cahokia and Other Lost Cities
Mark
Or if your car isn't broken down but you don't care to pay exhorbitant airport parking rates.
Are you really sure about the length of the ride?
The trip time I previously quoted, 1.5-2hrs, came from a source who either had a bad day on light rail (delay from 80 mins to 90 mins isn't that difficult to incur, esp with baggage), or was quoting round trip times, in which case 1.5 hour is still low if you include the terminal access time.
AEM7
In 1900, it was the nation's 4th largest city, home to a famous World's Fair. By 2000 it was the center of just the 18th largest Metro area, and had lost more than 60 percent of its population since 1950.
Mark
I won't deny you had one bad ride, but when I was there I rode the system every day for about a week, and over the course of my many rides I found it to be a very quick and convenient way to get between the airport and downtown. That sort of single-track snaggle at the airport didn't happen most of the time.
Mark
I think that most unemployed carless weirdos from the East Coast consider 50 or so minutes of their time to be worth less than the $37 differential between the cab fare and the train fare.
I think that most self-respecting Midwesterners (esp. from St Louis) has a car, and isn't afraid to use it.
I think that even though I am not unemployed, I still consider the 50 or so minutes of their time to be worth less than the $37 differential between the cab fare and the train fare.
But most people in St Louis aren't like me. I am a weirdo from the East Coast.
AEM7
It all depends on where you live and where your from. My situation, I'd spend the $3 bucks on a 50-minute ride, least I know i'm moving and it's predictable, but that's me.
Actually, when I was there the light rail station in the airport was easy as dirt to find. It was certainly no harder to find than finding the proper place to catch a cab.
Mark
Actually it is largely true (or rather, nothing is ever 100% true all the time, always). It is not true everywhere.
But since the article reflects the viewpoint of an advocacy, it is appropriately written.
The Auto Club occasionally publishes articles that dismiss public transit altogether as a taxpayer-financed boondoggle. This is clearly nonsense, but that is the Auto Club's point of view.
:)
Yeah, there aren't hard numbers yet on what works and what doesn't, but can't somebody at least raise the tone of the debate a little?
I agree that downtown St. Louis isn't much to speak of except for Laclede's Landing, which has some good restaurants and things, and the Union Station area. I thought Indianapolis was a lot more lively when I was there for a weekend.
Frank Hicks
Hey, at least with a rail line, if development takes place in the corn fields it might be more compact transit-oriented development instead of the acre-chomping sprawl that grows up around highways. Maybe.
Mark
Yes the trams are going to make a return because it used to be economically feasible to drive to work form the suberbs. Not anymore. The cost to drive an average vehicle is about 5 - 6 thousand per year with a new car purchase needed after 5 years. Furthermore, the motorists cost continue rising with spiraling insurance premiums, gas prices, parking fees, tolls, repairs and traffic tickets. These skyrocketing costs combined with declining wages and massive layoffs have made the automobile an extreamly expensive alternative to public transportation.
US Automobile Costs
1993 Figures 1997 Figures
Fixed Yearly Costs
Year 1993 Year 1997
Depreciation $2,883 Depreciation $3,268
Insurance 724 Insurance 809
License/Registration 183 License/Registration 220
Financial Charges 696 Financial Charges 793
Total Fixed Costs* $3,584 Total Fixed Costs* $4,228
Mileage-Based Yearly Costs
Gas and Oil 6.0 Gas and Oil 6.6
Maintenance 2.4 Maintenance 2.8
Tires .9 Tires 1.4
Total Variable Costs 9.3 Total Variable Costs 10.8
Total 1993 Costs 45.14 Total 1997 Costs 53.08
Source: American Automobile Manufactures Association, Inc
Which meshes with my own estimate that it would cost me about $1,000/month for a decent car, which is why I don't own a car.
Even if you drove half as much, it would come to $8,895/year currently.
Now, of course, you CAN have a car for a lot less than that, but I don't doubt that that's a reasonable estimate for the "average" costs.
Of course the big thing that pro-road people like to point out is that the cost of the car is a Private cost, born by individuals, as opposed to public transit where the car is mostly paid for out of tax dollars. That's a more difficult arguement to debate because it comes down to a fundamental understanding/opinion on the role of government.
There's an awful lot of vacant urban prairie that could be used for progressive mixed-use urban development, if only someone would have the foresight to see the dollars up for grabs in sucha proposition.
Mark
Other cities have recently begun to see more residential and commercial development in their downtowns. Even Los Angeles, long the proverbial city-without-a-downtown. St. Louis may be next.
"Of course the big thing that pro-road people like to point out is that the cost of the car is a Private cost, born by individuals, as opposed to public transit where the car is mostly paid for out of tax dollars. That's a more difficult arguement to debate because it comes down to a fundamental understanding/opinion on the role of government."
That's good, since every city in my state that I know of has spent the last 2 years at least talking about raising taxes, sales taxes, and gas taxes, and probably impact fees(nope) to fund road building and upkeep. Two cities alone want almost $9billion in tax money to do this. Miami has at least passed a cent sales-tax to work with roads, buses, and trains, probably the most balanced proposal i've seen.
Individuals pay as much in tax dollars to drive as they do to take a bus, and i haven't seen a highway cost any less than a rail line yet. I've never put out 40% of my monthly pay to ride transit, whereas I do to drive/commute. Maybe if they wanted to even the field, public transit would really be public, therefore free.
Clearly a nonsensical argument, since private drivers are more heavily subsidized that transit riders.
********************************************************************
I know this was posted before, but this article goes into more detail.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#Bombardiergets
Oh, I see. For that you don't need two tracks.
But two-hour headways? That sucks. Why bother?
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This has been on the table for a while now and Amtrak even temporarily suspended service who a while due to border crossing problems. Frankly I am not sure what is up here. First, when I took the Maple Leaf last year my train arrived spon on time in Toronto and on the way back it lost time on CSX, not the border. Second, I wonder if the administration is purposely delaying rail border crossings and letting ppl in cars and buses breeze through.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#Amtrakmay
Simple. Pre-clear like they do in airports and like they do for the Eurostar. Keep the transborder services restricted to secure areas only. Service would be speeded up considerably and everyone gets checked.
It's an interesting comparison, US-Canada cross-border versus Eurostar. On my trip to Paris and the return to London last summer, passport control consisted of a French police officer looking at my passport, a polite "Bonjour" or "Good Morning" and that was it. No other questions, nothing. And no UK officials to meet the train at Waterloo International.
I've always hated Canada-US crossings, both from the point of view of a Canadian and now as a US resident. Always tense. Every trip to Europe or the UK has been an amazingly pleasant affair, more a bored formality than anything else.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.5 COMING SOON!
Arti
The poster is right about going from Waterloo to Gare du Nord. There is a French policeman just after security at Waterloo who takes a quick look at the passports but upon arrival at Gare du Nord there are no further passport controls.
On the return, if you are not an EU citizen, you are required to fill out a landing card and you have to exit Waterloo through a downstairs immigration control just as at Heathrow and if you are a non EU citizen you answer a few questions from the immigration official and they still stamp your passport. I have UK stamps in my passport up the gazoo (and may 2 or 3 other stamps say from the Dutch the time I flew from London to Amsterdam) but no French stamps of any kind.
Incidentally, we could and should have the same kind of agreement between the US and Canada. There is no reason for this nonsense other than the fact the current administration feels they can and should trample on people's civil liberties all in the name of the War on Terrorism. It is scary to read some of the comments coming from dangerous sick minds such as Ashcroft's regarding what they would like to do. And it is scarier still that so many Americans are oblivious to it or think they are doing the right thing. All this from a President who we know was not really elected but put in place by a Supreme Court interested in protecting their conservative interests so that when some of them retire, the Supreme Court remains in Conservative hands. And how so many innocents have died because of this man's incompetence. Oh well...
Not any more.
Our country is great for show. Does anybody really think all these controls mean anything other than trying to comfort folks that something is being done? And now they want to have a national data base so that every time you take a plane (and they would expand it to trains) they know who you are and where you are going? And people like Ashcroft saying to US basically who gives a damn about your civil liberties. We know what's best!
Sickening.
It sounds hard to imagine, but back in the Good Old Days people who worked in downtown Detroit often would hop over to Windsor for lunch, the Candaian city having more, better and cheaper places to eat than downtown Detroit.
It goes without saying that this practice has vanished. I'm sure that hasn't been good for business in Windsor.
I do not fit any stereotypical terrorist profile and I was VERY thoroughly questioned entering by car at Sumas, WA, this summer.
Entry to Canada (at Fort Erie going west and at a small town south of Sarnia [ferry crossing] going east) was a breeze.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
-Robert King
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
I heard of someone doing the same thing with the Maple Leaf, stopping over in Albany. He got his suitcase sniffed and searched.
This was a customs dog, you say, not a USDA dog? Contraband includes fruits and vegetables and plants that USDA does not want you to bring in to the US because insects accompany it or because it is an invasive species. Even Grandpa and Grandma unwittingly bring those across the border.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Oh, no, that was Skippy, the Rye and smokes sniffer probably! Canada Customs doesn't give a damn about much, but bringing smokes or booze in...that's where they get all righteous in a sure-fire hurry!
You're allowed one bottle of booze up there, and if you bring in a second one it's at an amazingly-large duty rate, usually much more than the price of the bottle. I'd always assumed US Customs was the same way going back, so when I was in the UK I refrained from buying two bottles of single-malt scotch fearing massive import penalties at JFK. Turns out a second bottle was either allowed outright or the duty would have been under $10! I'll know for next time!!
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.5 COMING SOON!
DHS is delaying border crossings in all modes. If you think it's bad now, keep in mind that in a few years time they're going to be fingerprinting every foreigner who enters the US.
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Well as long as its not moving in reverse.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#Georgia
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Hey hey! Look at the last picture on the trackbed. Yup! A pneumatic switch machine right in the heart of CSX country (aka Heart of Dark Futureness)!!
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#Job
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Example, NS 25A/26A on the NEC.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#TOFC
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You know, If I were in charge I'd cater to NIMBY's too...and build the transit in their FRONT yards. Let's see if they like that better.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#Feds
********************************************************************
Hmm, it seems that the brief Rail America/Wisconsin Central foray into forgien freight railroading is comming to an end.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#RailAmerica
Mike, how much do you charge for keeping track of posts? I'm getting some great accounting services from you and you're not even being paid for it. :0)
You know one day the ordinary people on this board are going to stand up to you promiscuous posters.
********************************************************************
Hmmm, maybe they aught to start utilizing Panzerzugs.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#Rebels
Huh? I have been using WebTV since 1997, and I've never had that problem.
Once you are at the page whose URL you want, you hit the GO TO button. Then, when that panel pops up, you select SHOW LAST. You then have the page's URL in the window. Then hit CMD-A to select it, and CMD-C to copy it to the clipboard.
Finally, when writing your post here, you paste the URL by using CMD-V, like so:
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/newyork/columnists/ny-nysub033523875nov03,0,1999628.column?coll=ny-ny-columnists
(Clickable link)
Ferdinand Cesarano
First One
Most Equipment
Most People Riding It Per Day
Most Stations
Newest
Your Favorite
OK so just put down the city and the year or number if you can and each day a winner for each catergory will be annouced.
This week's type of transit is...Car Ferries!
So answer all the questions about Car Ferries
Chuck
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Now I had a yellow hard hat, a yellow flashlight, and a big bunch of keys at my belt, 'cause like I said, I was a building superintendent...
I would poke my head out of the read conductor's window, because I was a railfan, and that's what railfans do if the conductor isn't using the window.
So the doors close up, but this woman is running toward the train, and looking at me as if I would open up for her. She was probably very pissed that I all I sould do was shrug. I said "Sorry Rossie, I don't have a key"
: ) Elias
R.I.P. Mr. Redbird R33/36WF
Born 9/1/1063 Died 11/3/2003.
P.S. See you there with some pictures to follow in the afternoon.
Sorry, was typing too fast on a limited time computer.
ANOTHER side effect of 6am Tuna..... brrrrrah! :P
Presumably in one direction only. Or are there multiple cracked rails? (No, that only happens in London...)
I'm active in the Baltimore Streetcar Museum, and have been since the Museum was founded in 1966.
We observed the anniverary by presenting "The Fair of the Electric Pony, 2003", which was patterned after the pageant presented by the United Railways in 1928 in order to show off the historic cars that had been saved.
That collection eventually became the basis of the Baltimore Streetcar Museum's collection.
It's not depressing, it's a fact of life.
You came to Baltimore from somewhere else. You don't know what we had and foolishly threw away.
We are open every Sunday of the year, 12 Noon to 5:00 PM
Cars operate about every 20 minutes duing the day.
Or, more traditionally, leave Penn Station, cross over the tracks, walk down the hill and around the curve in the road to the museum.
Or, more traditionally ...
Well, we all know which route Jersey Mike will take :-) (Don't forget the bungee cord!)
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Click Here for link to movie
P.S. I am wearing my Flushing Local t-shirt today.
Seriously, great video, almost as touching as that Third Ave El video that was posted here a few months ago.
CLICK HERE FOR MOVIE
I guess I should get some movies on the June 19 MOD trip if I can make it up there.
Redbirds Forever: The Rebirth
(Possibly) Coming to a SubTalk thread near you.
Thanks for reposting it.
Robert
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
Mark
thanks
Jeremy
"Queens Plaza N @ Queens Boro Bridge" shows only the N train!
"Queens Blvd @ 36 Street" is down!
"Queens Blvd @ Van Damn" is literally hanging off the el structure but pointing the opposite direction!"
"GCP Interchange from Shea Stadium" is also down!
talk about bad luck... :(
Thank you for your assistance.
Michael
Washington, DC
http://subway.com.ru/tm-openhouse/pages/tm010.htm
Why weren't the 3 trains running Express on West Side to 137/B'way?
WINS reports no 3 train service north of 96th, which implies turning at 96th or maybe 137th (since the latter isn't part of their normal route).
So here are my observations:
1] The SEPTA train [cash] fare is TOO DAMN HIGH to Trenton. I cannot wait till NJT finally opens the SJLRTS. At least the cheaper fare ismore palatable to my wallet [even if they charge full fare, whatever it may be. The bus fare is more reasonable, but two hours on the 409 is way too much]
2] The Secaucus Transfer is HUGE. I would love to see this thing in operation when full train service is instituted later this month.
3] Next time I take the Main/Bergen County line, I will ride the train to Paterson. I rode it to Passaic, and got off literally in the "middle of nowhere" [actually it was in a residential area.] I went on the other side to take the train back, thought I was going to wait another hour, but another passenger tole me that the train back was delayed due to a mechanical problem. The train came 20 minutes late,[that was fine with me], and I wasn't stranded in [fortunately] the station's neighborhood for long.
4]I took the PATH from Hoboken to Christopher St. Greenwich Village is such a nice, funky neighborhood.
5]The 7 looks funny without the Redbirds. I guess it'll take some time getting used to seeing the R62's.
6] I noticed the car arrangement on the 7. A five car linked unit with 6 singles. And on the singles, you get the railfan window [Times Sq bound].
7] On the way home, I had to share a train car with a lot of whiny toddlers and their families. Was there a children's show going on last weekend? All of these yuppies and their progeny was annoying.
8]I hope to be back after Thanksgiving to see the New [Old] WTC station, Airtrain to JFK, and the Secaucus Transfer in operation on a weekday.
Mark De Loatch
mdlbigcat@comcast.net
Basically, it's the LACMTA buses, Red, Green, Blue and Gold rail lines that are NOT operating.
The smaller municipal outfits such as Santa Monica, Long Beach, Gardena, Torrance, Culver City, Commerce, Santa Clarita ARE operating.
There is also a transit system in Palmdale (which is part of LA County though 65-70 miles out of downtown LA) and it still runs.
In the San Gabriel Valley (northeast Los Angeles County), the major player if Foothill Transit -- which IS operating.
Metrolink is not under direct control of LACMTA -- their crews and dispatchers are provided by Amtrak, their shop facilities run by Bombardier. They are running full service.
Once you get out of Los Angeles County, nobody knows a thing about the strike....I drive for the TA in an adjoining county. We are not affected (other than connecting LACMTA routes not running). And 99.99% of our passengers have NO idea what's going on up in LA!!!!
It's basically another planet from down here....30 miles away.
And here I thought New Yorkers were provincial!
Baltimore is just 34 miles from here, but news about what's going in Washington is basically ignored (except for Congress and the White House, and DC'ers don't get much about Baltimore.
It's a human condition. You only know what's going on where you live or nearby. You know other places exist, you just don't bother with elsewhere, even if it's only a few miles away.
REDBIRDS FAREWELL AND THANK YOY FOR ALL THE RIDES.
I just uploaded new pictures in the Eastern Division Els and SEPTA albums and created a new album.
The address is as follows:
http://photos.transitgallery.com/Far-Rockaway-A-Train-Albums
Let me know what you think?
Enjoy
The Canarsie El is pretty much like the els of Chicago, built over or along alleys with brick stationhouses below the el structure.
F: Flushing
M: Manhattan
Anyway, (SOB, starts to cry) here are the last rites of the redbird. HO scale of original R36WF paint job trainset is courtesy of Mark W.
Farewell to the last Redbird.
See you guys on the Noon, 5, 6, 10 and 11 o'clock news. Our Mr. McDonald will have more photos later, including the action at Willets Point, the final stop of the last Redbird.
Confirmed by Sir. Ronald of McDonald, the Redbird is at Willets Point with a Press Conference ongoing. The Redbird will NOT make a return trip, she had her last run. It's heartbreaking but we have to move on. May she swim in peace.
That's O-scale.
I would have thought that in 5 years time, there would be a market for the runs for the March of Dimes!
John
Regards,
Jimmy
Those of us who did the many Red Bird Fan Trips & Field Trips have some very good memories. I'm gald that I had the chance to do the flyover in a Red Bird this year for the first time ! Meanwhile 6688 will be there to refresh our memories !
Well said Good Friend, well said.
Regards,
Jimmy
I seem to recall that there was some equipment substitution for the trips because of breakdowns.
However, that still doesnt mean that after today, there will be one, some, a complete consist of Redbirds available for future fan trips, which was why I asked the question.
Do you know?
John
I was on the first, as it turned out it was a Red Bird trip vs. the planned museum fleet. It was one hell of a Red Bird trip !
"... Redbirds available for future fan trips, which was why I asked the question."
The press release say that they are going to save a few more in addition to the existing museum IRT fleet.
For the rest of this year I hear that there will be two more trips. One we all know about, the second is still in the planning stages, but I don't think it will be Red Birds.
Mark
You need go no further than in the Chambers St. station on the J line, and have a look around. Archaeologists have wondered for decades!
Regards,
Jimmy
Just to clarify things up, what exactly are the "subtle differences" between the R-44 and the R-46? The way I tell them apart is by looking at the red door open lights on the inside; the R-46's are shiny, while the R-44's are ribbed.
That's sort of a ridiculously way to tell the two apart, so, what and for all are the differences?
Thanks,
--Julian
Wayne
David
David
Not at all. Granted, originally, the first test train of R44s were first assigned to the "A". Then eventually the "D", "E", and "F" (not necessarily in that order. After the testing phase and the R44s started rolling in circa 1972, they were in three groups as follows:
100-159 to the "E" & "F"
260-399 to the "D"
400-452 to the SIRT
This arrangement stayed until May 1977 when the R46s started rolling full speed. They, along with the R32s taken from the "CC" displaced the R44s from the "E" & "F" to the "A". The "D" kept its R44s until 1980 due to the "Great R44/R46 Swap of 1980". At that time the "D" received R46s for a few months, then the R44s came back and the R46s went to the "CC". This lasted until 1981 until the swap was over. THAT's when the "A" received ALL R44s from the "D", "E" and "F".
With the exception of the "A" losing 388-399 to the SIRT back around '85 or '86, the rest of the R44s have been on the "A" ever since. This was long before the GOH of the mid to late '80s.
One 4 car set of R-44s received a stainless steel sheathing where the blue band was, but this proved to be costly, so it was not duplicated on any other of the cars.
It wasn't a whole set, it was only two cars 5228 and 5229. I might be wrong, but from what I understand, they just did not paint where the blue band was, they didn't install a stainless steel sheathing
The SIRTOA r-44s were overhauled before NYCT's so they all received the stainless steel but no more.
Nope, the R44s on the "A" were rebuilt first.
:-) Andrew
DIIIING.....door closes, quite a bit on the ones I rode. I guess when they finally retire the R46's, I'm gonna miss the 4,000 variations of the door chime;-)
The Redbirds have plied the subway lines of New York City for about forty years. It was only in the last decade or so that they were officially given the nickname "redbirds." But today, November 3, 2003, it was time to say "bye bye birdie" to the venerable cars.
The trip began at Times Square, when, at approximately 10:30 AM, the train arrived on track 2. The consist was as follows:
F|9564-9565-9309-9582-9583-9584-9585-9617-9616-9587-9586|M
F: Flushing
M: Manhattan
Once the train pulled in, it as "All aboard and stand clear of the closing doors." At each station, the conductor of the train made the announcement, "Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. This is the last run of this type of train, also known as Redbirds." So it went throughout the line.
There were many SubTalkers at this event. Some that I remember are myself, G1Ravage, Christopher Rivera, Arrow III MU, and others. I had on my "9346" number plate and roda among the masses.
Many people didn't know it was the last run, despite the announcements. For example, at 61st Street, one lady asked if the train was a local or an express. After closing up, an employee waved goodbye to the people on the platform.
The train terminated at Willets Point Boulevard, where the train was parked on the northbound local track. There, all the photographers took pictures. I opened up the end bonnet to expose the rollsign controls, and a few changed up the signs. Someone had put it up on <6>, then I set it back to (7).
The press had a large presence at the event. New York 1, CBS, ABC, NBC, the WB, and even Transit Transit News was there to cover the event.
After calling at Willets Point Blvd for about a half an hour, the train closed up and left for the yard, with the end rollsign reading, "(7)|3 Av/138 St." Many went to the bridge over Corona Yard to take a picture of the train as it went into the yard. I was there as the train slowly rolled into Track 8 of the yard. That's when I took my last look at the train and I said in a Casablanca-style manner,
"Fare thee well, my Redbird friends. Until we meet again."
Are you going SCUBA diving one day?
I swim like a Redbird.
http://wcbs.dayport.com/launcher/6508/?tf=chtopsviewer.tpl
.....Rawr....
--jonathan c.
Koi
click here.
Why is there no regular service scheduled connecting the Queens Boulevard line to the 63rd Street line to the Broadway BMT? The tracks are there and it seems to be a good opportunity to increase service.
not to mention that the Broadway line is incredibly crowded currently as it is.
N ~ 7 TPH
Q ~ 8 TPH
Qx ~ 7 TPH
R ~ 8 TPH
W ~ 7 TPH
Local ~ 22 TPH (57 to 42)
Express ~ 22 TPH (34 to Canal)
It's not that crowded...
The QB Line can't handle anything more right now! So such a suggestion isn't possible.
N ~ 7 TPH
Q ~ 8 TPH
Qx ~ 7 TPH
R ~ 8 TPH
W ~ 7 TPH
Local ~ 22 TPH (57 to 42)
Express ~ 22 TPH (34 to Canal)
It's not that crowded...
Numbers is one thing, but the reality is another. What accounts for headways or how often the doors are held or crowding or delays? I've ridden the lines often so I can attest for these problems. The BMT Broadway is dealing with a lot. Maybe when next year comes, but the MTA has other plans. I'm sure if the demand was there, I'd think the MTA would do otherwise.
- There is no more room for express service on Queens Blvd
- Tests with the G train proved that they cannot run 3 routes on the local tracks
True, since there is already E via 53rd st, F via 63rd st, and R via 60 st merges at QB. This would cause a serious traffic problem at Queen Plaza intercept . Not to mention that during evening you also have G and V as well.
"Tests with the G train proved that they cannot run 3 routes on the local tracks."
Then how do you explain QB evening service where G R V running together??? 3 hours is kinda long for three local service running on one track in both direction
If TA have that kind of service in Rush Hours because of 5 min headway
True, since there is already E via 53rd st, F via 63rd st, and R via 60 st merges at QB. This would cause a serious traffic problem at Queen Plaza intercept . Not to mention that during evening you also have G and V as well.
"Tests with the G train proved that they cannot run 3 routes on the local tracks."
Then how do you explain QB evening service where G R V running together??? 3 hours is kinda long for three local service running on one track in both direction
Is this Peter Kalikow's first trip on a Redbird?
Does he really need a bodyguard?
Why didn't he take the train back to Manhattan? - Hmm.
Hard to believe these were once the Beautiful, New, Blue and White World's Fair Cars.
What time will do.
I think these cars prove that simple and straightforward is not a bad thing, even in an age on tremendous, daily technological progress.
Perhaps he thought that there are a few, dangerous buffs out there who weren't happy with the retirement :)
Unfortunately, he'd be 100% correct.
This morning I went to Mineola to check out the AM rush hour.If yu arrive there around 5:45 AM until about 6:45 you will see a lot of trains deadheading to Ronkonkama and Huntington.I saw 8 M-7s in all today including 3 in a row westbound!All of them had flat wheels every singe car.I am somewhat suprised at that.I figured that the M-7s would have some kind of an anti-lock braking system,or if not that at least some kind of system that prevents skidding.
The rails by the Main street crossing,have a lot of gaps in them so you get some great Bang-Bang as the train passes.
The police activity that was quite heavy over the spring and summer at Mineola,has all but stopped,as I have not been questioned in the past couple of months.
Went to the Mineola Post Office to get a money order and stamps,guess how long I had to wait on line?............................a staggering 30 seconds!!
Try that at ANY post office in the 5 boroughs at 8:30 AM.
Good to hear they are not bothering you anymore in Mineola. Maybe they figure all evil doers go into hibernation in the fall and there's no need to harrass railfains in the cold winter months :-)
Mine is without a doubt the screaming whine that they made on the express runs,especially before the cars were modified.Especially right after M&K rebuilt them in the mid 80s.Especially going past the s curve at 59th street on the downtown West Side express.Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Six cars have been saved for use in movies and such. I would guess they could be used for museum runs as well.
G1Ravage heard this from MTA employees speaking informally at the ceremony today. Do not take this to be fact. Here is a photo.
The Nov issue of Railpace has a photo of Seashore's A Train out and about September 1st of this year, but the funny part is the caption:
"The "A" Train comes to Maine ... RECENTLY retofitted ... with trolley poles ..." Gee, I seem to remember having the priviladge of a ride in them in 2000.
To be fair, later in the caption they say "... purchased #800 in 1989 ... donated #1440 ... in 1990 ..."
If this is the only way to get into Railpace I can think of another museum that needs to get a bit more creative with it's photos & text that it submits to them
I went on the trip.
REDBIRDS 1963-2003
NEVER SHALL BE FORGOTTEN
May they rest in piece.
Who's up for some Scuba diving!?
Bill "Newkirk"
I'm evil. >=-)
Actually, I was playing around with it when it came time to kick us all out, so I didn't have time to change it back.
Here is a better pic of what used to be.
Can you see any improvement? I can't.
Let's see: I see a homeball and a diverging route, and there is an X-720 there. I do not recall what the X stands for.
GOOD Riddance to the Rustbirds!
Mother of all horrors! I forgot that you are waging a one-man war against the TA's maintenance dept to keep them from reducing their parts inventory.
Actually for the first time ever, and Thank Goodness. Perhaps after today we can stop talking about the Redbirds, and talk about something else.
Maybe we can start whining about saving the R32 "Brightliners." At least those cars are stainless steel and are legendary for reliability. And while the Redbirds were the last of their kind, the "Brightliners" were the first of their kind, unless you count small purchases of test trains. The've got them on the F now, and they scoot along quite well.
THANK YOU !
Bill "Newkirk"
My source is the PA itself, they told me, when I called them about the opening for a report I am doing!
Redbirds #1 - we will miss you
If this is your argument, it's absolutely ridiculous. The MTA was smart in getting rid of the hand cranks.
1. Getting rid of the Hand Cranks prevents people from playing around with the signs
2. Getting rid of the hand cranks also makes the C/Rs job take a bit longer as well and makes many less likely to change all of the signs
I was on a 3 train to the Bronx last year, only the first car(that I saw) had E 238 St-White Plains Road, Bronx while the rest had 148 St-Lenox Terminal, Manhattan(acceptable in the AM, not in the PM), Not to say that the redbirds were always properly signed either of course on the 2/5 lines the redbirds are better equipped than the r142s in terms of terminal signage, but that is another issue right there
An obvious plus.
2. Getting rid of the hand cranks also makes the C/Rs job take a bit longer as well and makes many less likely to change all of the signs
A bit vague. How much longer is 'a bit longer.' Most times I get on a 7 at Main Street, I see an employee shove a key in, crank it and I see the sign change considerably faster than a hand crank.
the redbirds are better equipped than the r142s in terms of terminal signage, but that is another issue right there
Depends how you look at it. No physical changing whatsoever on the new trains since it's all digital. Changing what they read is something different though, and I have no idea how it's done.
Assuming that they don't have to find the right key on a keyring..... of course.
And I heard hand cranks were easier somewhere before, guess it depends on the situation, and at this time I will leave it at that.
---
Depends how you look at it. No physical changing whatsoever on the new trains since it's all digital. Changing what they read is something different though, and I have no idea how it's done
---
Depends what is in the program, like the #2 can say only 2 TO WAKEFIELD-241 and 2 TO FLATBUSH AV never mind that a few #2 trains do run to New Lots(not nearly as much as the #5 goes over there) while the redbirds showed a number of different terminal and route combinations
I think the early #5 r142s couldn't sho Utica and New Lots either, but the newer ones can(at least for Utica, I never saw a #5 say New Lots though)
Lack of hand cranks will not make a difference as far as changing the signs, because C/Rs have been less like to changes signs since the beginning of time. Nobody who is a regular rider of the "7" is going to tell me that they boarded and express, but most if not all the signs say local.
Back in the good days when the "A" and "CC" shared rolling stock (the almighty R10s as well as the R38s pre-GOH) there were plenty of times that I would board an "A" only to have half of the cars signed as "CC" and vice versa. Don't even get me started with the Far Rockaway vs Lefferts Blvd. Back then, not only did the SOBs not change the sign, they didn't even make an announcement. Believe me, back then there were many-a-day you had a bunch of mad commuters arriving at 104th St-Oxford, cursing out the conductor and threatening to blow up the "A" train. LOL.
I am and I can say directly the opposite. Most of my experiences on a 7 express as far as I can tell with the R62A's has the diamond '7' bullet set and ready.
I always enjoy the general gist of your posts. CC, just one honest question...have you taken pictures of your own? When I purchase a digicam of my own, I want to get around here on the transit scene.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
Made those cars look like every other car, no unique livery anymore. Every color livery after the original didn't highlight the panoramic windows.
Or do you mean that the Redbirds on the 7 were in uniquely bad condition? That I'll certainly grant you.
And yes, it was.
NO WAY!!!
The 7 Line lost its uniqueness over 20 years ago when they painted over the blue and white cars, first to all white, then to all red, and the 7 Line became a line of ugly looking IRT cars just like all the other IRT lines.This is when the Flushing Line was unique:
It will go like this:
R38->R42->R40->R44
I believe the R160 option (which is to replace the MK-GOHed R32s) should instead be focused to on replacing the R44 instead. The R44 is in worst shape than the R32 and should go first.
Koi
Thunderball II: The Lost Redbird.
Or, if you run afoul of the mob, cement shoes.
I am not really into poetry but I thought of something fitting over the weekend that I posted the eulogy. As for the Sea Beach line bashing, Fred knows in his heart that it's done for good clean fun, and is now and integral part of Subtalk, just as he bashes my Brighton Line. It's not senseless, it's what makes this board fun.
But for now, we have a truce.
Regards,
Jimmy
For those of you who have not been up to Cooperstown, the HOF is a brick building right in the heart of the main 5 block downtown area. I don't think that they would want to devote as much display space to the car as would be needed. Just stand on the ground next to a Redbird, either at Shoreline or in a rail yard, and you'll realize how big these cars truly are.
Other than the atrium lobby, I don't recall any ceiling being more than the standard 8-10 feet tall. Therefore there would have to be MAJOR building renovations to accomodate a 12 foot high car plus overhead space for a drop ceiling and a sprinkler system.
On one side of the building is Cooper Park, a public park, that is very hilly. Some of the park was given to the HOF for their expansion 10 years ago. I can't imagine the locals allowing anymore of their parkland to be taken for a subway car, plus the excavation for leveling some of the ground and building a shed to protect the car in winter.
Check out http://www.nynewsday.com for a rather nice article with slide show and audio clip of a reporter who visited the submerged redbirds.
Then with your spirits lifted, go to http://newsday.com and be prepared for a rather negative article. And don't get on my case, I didn't speak with anyone from the media.
Be glad you have election day off! I think my school district(Port Washington USFD(which is a load of crap, cuz there are unions)) is the only one with school open. ARGH!
FOX 5 showed the train rolling into the yard.... and not much more.
Regards,
Jimmy
U go, brah.
Care 2 give more details so we can better know which 1 u were??
I think all Red Birds are good ones, or should I say WERE :-(
-Stef
These are just my predictions.
Chuck :-)
I think it is similar for every generation. I think that the older cars were better and every new car is a reduction in my subway pleasure.
If I had control, BMT, IRT and IND would all be using original cars with a few additions such as R10.
For shame. You didn't use the correct Pigism: ERYTHRORNITHOPHILES!
Ladies and Gentlemen, Redbirds Have Left the Building.
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=596675
I swear, he's been acting incredibly narrow to people like Douce Man, RonInBayside, CC, and now me just because I don't show as much interest in the 'birds. Oh well, HIS loss.
Now as for the R40 slants POSSIBLY being retired by the R160s...I am a bit indifferent. I used to like the Slants for their speed 'til I realized other cars were faster. I've stood at the front window of a Slant through 60 St. It did not feel fast. On the other hand, sitting on R46s or R68s or R68As, the ride through the tube felt much faster.
But when the R32s retire (hopefully that won't be for another 10-15 years ;) ) that will generate an even bigger media frenzy, in my opinion.
And yes, I killfiled a few of our very own "wackos from Waco," and now reading SubTalk is a much more enjoyable experience! (I didn't have to break out my .22 last night to relieve tension, as I did the past few nights)
www.railfanwindow.com
I'm calling it right now. Railfans will NOT like that the R-160's are replacing the slants, 38's, etc. Some railfans might like that they are replacing the R-44's (if that turns out to be the case). So there's my prediction. Of course I could be wrong...if the R-160's come with narrow cabs and railfan windows....hahahahah. But that seems HIGHLY unlikely given the current information avialable about the R-160 program. And for those of you that will try to tell me stuff I already know: Yes, I know the R-160 is supposed to be almost identical to the R-143, blah blah blah...
You know that you are very unique in your tastes for NYC subway cars, and I whole heartedly recognize that and commend you for it.
R160 primary order will retire:
-10 R32's/R32A's (GE overhauls)
-R38's
-R40's
-110 R42's (NYCTA overhauls)
R160 option order #1 (if taken) will retire:
-Remaining R32's/R32A's (M-K overhauls)
R160 option order #2 (if taken) will retire:
-R40M's
-Remaining R42's (M-K overhauls)--possible 40 cars for service increases.
Special thanks to webmaster David Pirmann for having this info in the website.
This bothers me. Goodbye Redbirds.
Mark
Koi
Great photos though. :)
Standing, L to R: G1Ravage, chuchubob, American Pig, Arrow III MU's dad, Arrow III MU, Sparky, skfny
Behind window: Mark S. Feinman
Kneeling: Sir Ronald of McDonald
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
So what else is new?
In this one, I was in the front of the following train.
Your Dad got a good pic, too. If either Pigs or I had a gram of sociability, we would have met on Monday.
I'd be happy to play SubTalk "meeter and greeter," as long as everyone wears a name tag (so I don't confuse someone for someone else). I of course knew who PIGS was despite his lack of a name tag, but other SubTalkers' names, who I know I've met before, escaped my mind.
I will say this: if you (anyone) wear a name-tag on Nov 23 for the first PATH train to the WTC, I am willing to help you meet any other present subtalker who is also wearing a name-tag. I will break the ice. I am totally for subtalkers meeting in person. It does wonders to help improve the civility of the message board.
The other pictures are cool, too!
Ptttttttttt to that!
: )
Mark
No you weren't.
Why didn't you say hi?
You don't know what I look like?!? There are tons of photos of me on my website, and I was wearing a name-tag. And assuming you've gone through my album of photos from yesterday, you now know what I look like, correct?
It's funny, I thought it would be kinda like this.
Yes, that was the interior of the car housing the anti-railfan window. It became a little more crowded as the trip progressed. You will see that in the video...when I make it available...which could be a while...
An informal count of the passengers waiting at Times Square was taken by a professional counter, and the estimate (at ~10:25am) stands at 220+ people.
Via M/J to Essex. Christie Street cut to Broadway Lafayette. Via F to Van Wyck, then E to Parsons/Archer. Leave Parsons/Archer, loop Jamaica Yard, via F line to W.4 and terminate. Lay-up 207th Yard.
til next time
We left from Times Square on Track C1 (station tk 2) and made all stops to Willets Point arriving there on track C3. THe train sat in the station while speeches were made on the normally unused northbound side platform. During this time regular northbound service used the center track.
The consist was (N) 9664-5, 9309, 9582-3, 9584-5, 9617-6, 9587-6 (S).
Chris Rivera and I took pictures of each other standing in front of R-33 9309. The last R-33 in service.
Now that the Redbirds are gone I can retire and write my memoirs.
Best Wishes, Larry, REDBIRD R-33
Adam
FAREWELL TO THE REDBIRDS. NOW IT IS TIME TO SAY GOOD-BYE!!
#3 West End Jeff
FAREWELL TO THE REDBIRDS. NOW IT IS TIME TO SAY GOOD-BYE!!
#3 West End Jeff
Regards,
Jimmy
For the record, R-33s #9309 is significant also because it was the last NYC Transit subway car of any type ever to operate in regular scheduled passenger service to still have the old axiflow fans. So now, the entire NYC Transit subway rolling stock fleet is now all air-conditioned equipped and stainless steel.
-William A. Padron
["111 Street-Corona/Queens"]
-William A. Padron
["Main St-Flushing"]
New York 1
CBS 2
NBC 4
ABC 7
1] The SEPTA train [cash] fare is TOO DAMN HIGH to Trenton. I cannot wait till NJT finally opens the SJLRTS. At least the cheaper fare ismore palatable to my wallet [even if they charge full fare, whatever it may be. The bus fare is more reasonable, but two hours on the 409 is way too much]
2] The Secaucus Transfer is HUGE. I would love to see this thing in operation when full train service is instituted later this month.
3] Next time I take the Main/Bergen County line, I will ride the train to Paterson. I rode it to Passaic, and got off literally in the "middle of nowhere" [actually it was in a residential area.] I went on the other side to take the train back, thought I was going to wait another hour, but another passenger tole me that the train back was delayed due to a mechanical problem. The train came 20 minutes late,[that was fine with me], and I wasn't stranded in [fortunately] the station's neighborhood for long.
4]I took the PATH from Hoboken to Christopher St. Greenwich Village is such a nice, funky neighborhood.
5]The 7 looks funny without the Redbirds. I guess it'll take some time getting used to seeing the R62's.
6] I noticed the car arrangement on the 7. A five car linked unit with 6 singles. And on the singles, you get the railfan window [Times Sq bound].
7] On the way home, I had to share a train car with a lot of whiny toddlers and their families. Was there a children's show going on last weekend? All of these yuppies and their progeny was annoying.
8]I hope to be back after Thanksgiving to see the New [Old] WTC station, Airtrain to JFK, and the Secaucus Transfer in operation on a weekday.
Mark De Loatch
mdlbigcat@comcast.net
My Redbird last ride recap is up there, a ton of photos, and other new content.
Enjoy!
WTG! 8-)
First One
Most Equipment
Most People Riding It Per Day
Most Stations
Newest
Your Favorite
And for those interested in a very historical World Trade Center / PATH item, see eBay number 2200138712, and for those interested in the Rockaway Peninsula see eBay item 2200140741.
The City of New York stopped the BMT from running the PCCs after the first day. Until its abandonment in 1949 8000 series double end Peter Witts served this route.
Mark
AND...IF in the unlikely event that NY gets the 2012 Olympics (too bad, Vancouver got 2010) NYCT should make it a priority to order new cars for the 7. My opinion-who whats to ride a 1986 R62A at the 2012 Olympics?
In fact, what number would come next after the R-142 in the IRT?
Wait until it is announced before worrying about what equipment is going to be used.
IMHO - we won't get the 2012 Olympics.
The Redbird obviously took center stage today, but get used to these, they may be here for the next 20 or so years. Barring an appearance by the 142/142a.
I disagree. Name one railfan-friendly feature on the R-142(A). Actually, I can only think of one, and that is the vertical grab bars on either side of the cab door. IF there was a decent railfan window there, then those grab bars would have been amazing. So just try and tell me one useful railfan-friendly feature of the new tech cars. If you can't think of any, then why will railfans be sad when they are retired? They certainly won't be the last human operated cars. All they are, are the first of the new-tech cars. Woo-weeeeee. Big whoop. Unless they remove all windows from the new cars, the R-142(A)'s retirement will not cause railfan hearts to be broken.
Now if I can have your attention, would everyone please direct their attention at the letter C? :)
Now if I can have your attention, would everyone please direct their attention at the letter C? :)
Are you referring to the R38's on the C line, by any chance?
New York City, New York - October 29, 2003
The world's first beat poetry musical Subway Train arrives in New York
City on November 19, 2003.
Subway Train, a theatrical invention about risk, hope, and life on the
train, will be presented by The Liilaa Company for a one-night-only staged
reading at the Bowery Poetry Club.
Subway Train is a peek into the life and minds of three young poets told
through poetry, music, acting, and imagination. The script is comprised
of the writers' journal entries that capture private observations and
feelings experienced while riding the train. Griff Foxely from
getunderground.com says, "Subway Train puts a stethoscope to the pulse of
the bustling masses and uncovers emotional landscapes not readily
available in the everyday."
With an original concept by Joshua Kobak, this exciting hip new musical
was written by The Liilaa Company with book and lyrics by Joshua Kobak,
Katy Pfaffl, and Mickey Fisher, and music by Sean Dixon, Danton Boller,
Pfaffl, Kobak, and Fisher.
The cast of three poets are portrayed by Joshua Kobak, Katy Pfaffl, and
Mickey Fisher, with Yassmin Alers as the train conductor. The band is
comprised of Sean Dixon on drums, Danton Boller on upright bass, and Matt
Caplan on guitar.
Joshua Kobak has appeared in RENT on tour and on Broadway. His
acoustirock band Swim gigs out regularly and has recorded their first CD
"Above And Beneath."
Katy Pfaffl recently released "As She Stands" the acoustic soul-folk
follow-up to her 2001 self-titled debut album.
Mickey Fisher of Leo's Pride Entertainment wrote, directed, and appears in
the forthcoming independent feature film "The King Of Iron Town."
Yassmin Alers, dance-captain of the original Broadway company of RENT, has
also been seen on Broadway in Paul Simon's The Capeman, The Rocky Horror
Show, and the European premiere of The Who's Tommy.
Sean Dixon, of neo-soul band The Chesterfields, also provides drums and
percussion for the Katy Pfaffl Band and Swim. Bassist Danton Boller has
recorded and toured worldwide with Jazz Mandolin Project, as well as Swim.
Matt Caplan is a singer-songwriter who can currently be seen on Broadway
in RENT as the filmmaker Mark Cohen.
The Liilaa Company was founded by Kobak, Pfaffl, and Fisher while
attending the University of Cincinnati's College-Conservatory of Music.
The Liilaa Company produced their first show "The Colors Of Love" at the
Ensemble Theatre of Cincinnati and the 1997 New York Fringe Festival,
Subway Train has been in development over the past five years and was
previously presented as a work-in-progress piece in 1998 at The Duplex
Cabaret, and at Show World Center in 1999 and earlier this year.
Don't miss this train. There will be two performances at 8:00pm and
10:30pm on November 19 at the Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (between
Bleecker and Houston, across from CBGB's). Take the F or V train to 2nd
Avenue, or the 6 train to Bleecker Street.
www.bowerypoetry.com
Tickets are $20 at the door. Bar and coffee available, no drink minimum.
All ages.
For more information visit www.joshuakobak.com
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Suicide is more like it.
CG
But wear comfortable shoes. :)
The Van Courtlandt Madman
I didn't like the Qs replacing the BUs (big time!). I didn't look forward to the R39s replacing the Qs on Myrtle and the Lo-Vs and WFs on the Third in the Bronx.
So now we have no Myrt or 3rd at all. That's better?
many times I have offered the olive branch to make peace with you, but you cannot be reasoned with.
Huh?!??!! What?!?!? All I have ever asked of you is that you try to moderate your posting. How did you respond? Well you just set the record for number of posts with in a calendar month with 1145 posts, most of thise pointless ramblings about Redbirds. You know that is only 405 posts from the theoretical limit!!! BTW I gave you the chance to make peace by just comming forward and admit that you were lying about that whole hospitalization thing, but you decided to stick with your lie.
As well as humility. I am FAR, FAR, FAR from perfect, but ANYONE here at SubTalk who treats me decently, gets treated the same way.
I don't care what you think of me or what you say aobut me. Those things do not effect me. What does effect me is your continued watering down of the content here on Subtalk with your nonsensical fluff posts.
Unlike you, I do not backstab.
If you were under the impression that I was backstabbing you you are sorely misinformed. I am FRONTstabbing you and I make no bones about it nor feel any shame in doing so. I will fight you on the message boards and in the discussion forums. I will fight you in the chat rooms and over e-mail. I will fight you on AIM and in the Newsgroups and I will never, ever surrender.
You do realize Mike that plenty of people post that kind of stuff? Personally, I think CC is the least of your worries.
No you get a life. Normally I have respect for the operating types, but how did you ever managed to get along in the crewbase with that kinda attitude?
AEM7
It is not your place, or anyone else's to ask any poster to watch the number of posts. So you can have no legitimate expectations in that regard.
Now, if this were a zero-sum game, where someone else's posts reduce the number of posts you can have, then there would be grounds for negotiations.
Actually, it kind of is a zero sum game. Most people have a kind of subtalk-reading algorithm that is somewhat similar to this:
Maximize Fun
Subject to (Time Available for Fun)
Allocate
(Time Spent Reading my posts on Subtalk)
(Time Spent Reading other posts on Subtalk)
(Time Spent doing other things)
If the total number of posts on Subtalk goes up, then it is likely that (Time Spent Reading my posts on Subtalk) will decrease and that (Time Spent Reading other posts on Subtalk) will increase, if (Time Spent doing other things) is constant. But if the contribution to Fun decreases because (Time Spent Reading other posts on Subtalk) contributes less than (Time Spent Reading my posts on Subtalk), then (Time Spent doing other things) might increase as a result of allegedly brainless posts.
If the subtalk poster has the following algorithm:
Maximize (Number of my posts that people read)
Subject to (Time Available to post on Subtalk)
Allocate
(Time Spent per post)
(Number of posts)
Then it is natural that Jersey Mike would want to have other people decrease their number of allegedly "brainless" posts. The problem is that not everybody's "brainlessness" functions are the same. This makes Subtalk an interesting board.
AEM7
Maximize Fun
Subject to (Time Available for Fun)
Apply Known Subtalker Quality Filter or Killfile
Allocate (culling function)
(Time Spent Reading my posts on Subtalk)
(Time Spent Reading other posts on Subtalk)
(Time Spent doing other things)
Now, the impact of brainless posts (whatever definition you would like) is reduced and additional resource is available to read the Fun or Worthwhile Posts. This reduces the significance of the maximal (quantity) posting strategy.
How do I say goodbye to what we had?
The good times that made us laugh
Outweigh the bad.
I thought we'd get to see forever
But forever's gone away
It's so hard to say goodbye to yesterday.
I don't know where this road
Is going to lead.
All I konw is where we've been
And what we've been through.
If we get to see tomorrow
I hope it's worth all the wait
It's so hard to say goodbye to yesterday.
And I'll take with me the memories
To be my sunshine after the rain
It's so hard to say goodbye to yesterday.
I know I have made my remarks "Redbirds Sucks", or "Scrap em Now" but deep down inside I will miss the ones they call Redbirds. When I was little, I remembered riding one of them to my grandmothers house, how I loved to feel the bumpy ride coming into Union Square, to make the connection. Now it all feels as if it never happened. Like, somehow I let the memories fade away until the last moment. Maybe its because I do love the redbirds, for one thing, I never got to say I'll miss you. Or maybe I never got the chance to take enough pictures of them. For whichever reasons I love you guys (and not in the obssesive way as R36 968 whatever his/her name is), but no matter what I say from here on out, god speed and I'll miss you.
If the image doesnt come out see here
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Arti
Say what?
"The train cars, named for their brick-red exteriors, have been running from Times Square to the Flushing-Main Street stop since they began delivering commuters in 1959."
Umm, not quite. As we know, the R-26s (which were the oldest cars that came to be known as "Redbirds") did indeed start delivery in 1959 (same year I was delivered!) :) But of course the R-33 WF/R-36 went into service a few years later (see my other post on clueless reporters) :)
BTW when the new Sunnyside station opens, can all the traind (Penn and GCT bount) stop there?
Arti
Arti
You are correct.
CG
But many more use Penn. You may think it's a dungeon, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.
Please note that other routes to the East Side include LI Bus to Jamaica Center or 179 St, for trains headed to the 53/Lex or 63/Lex Stations, or LI Bus to Main St/Flushing for the 7 train, or even LIRR to Atlantic Av, with transfers to Manhattan-bound IRT Lex trains.
Wouldn't Hunters Point be a difficult option as very few trains serve the station, otherwise it would be a clear winner for anyone going to the East Side.
_But many more use Penn. You may think it's a dungeon, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone. _
I'm really talking time wise. At rush hours it could easily take 10 - 15 minutest just to get out of the station + the usual delays when the train is entering the station. Add another 30 minutes to get to the East Side...
_Please note that other routes to the East Side include LI Bus_
Bus as established here, has insignificant passanger capacity compared to trains.
_even LIRR to Atlantic Av, with transfers to Manhattan-bound IRT Lex trains._
To get to East Midtown, it makes a little sense, unless you happen to be in the train going there, IMHO.
Arti
Add another 30 minutes to get to the East Side...
It doesn't take thirty minutes to ride an E train from 34th Street to 5th or Lexington.
Close to, as your destination is on the surface and you have to wait for the train + merge with 6th Av service.
Arti
Anecdotally speaking, (and I don't know if the TPH stats would support it or not) this became less of an issue once the V train replace the F train as the 6th Ave / 53rd St / Queens service.
CG
Elias
You answered your own question. There are specific arrivals and departures from there (diesel trains) every day. They carry pretty much the same people.
The Ftriday night train is the TGIF party train described in the NY Times.
Actually that's why I didn't mention HP in my original post.
Arti
NOPE!
avid
95% of the time I went via Penn Station and then the E to 53/5. The crowds exiting Penn really aren't much of an issue at all. The LIRR platforms have so many exit stairways that getting off the platform isn't nearly the hassle that it used to be over on the NJT side. (In fact, it generally takes longer to get off the platform at Hunterspoint Ave than it does at Penn.
The biggest hassle with the commute from Penn to the East Side is that the main access to Queens-bound E train platform at Penn is at the extreme rear of the train. Since passengers headed for 5th Ave and Lexington Ave (the avenues, not the stations) crowd the rear of the platform, passengers who want Madison and Third Avenues -- or who just want to spread out can't get to the middle or front of the train. The overwhelming majority of E trains leaving Penn headed towards Queens are 1) heavily crowded in the first 2-3 cars; 2) moderate crowding in the next 4-5 cars; 3) crush loaded in the rear 3 cars.
About 5% of the time I would go to Woodside, where I'd catch a 7-express one stop to QBP and then a N/W 2 stops to 60th/5th. This could be anywhere from 5-10 minutes faster than my normal commute if the connections were perfect to 30 minutes slower in connections went badly. Most times it was about 5-10 minutes slower.
The biggest drawback to this was that I didn't have any direct service from my station to Woodside during the rush (as you noted, only a small fraction of rush hour trains actually stop there). So not only did I need to make the subway connections, but I also had to change at Jamaica. The more connections one has to make at rush hour -- the less likely you are to get there on time!!
I rarely used Hunters Point Avenue. Again, I would have had to change at Jamaica for this station. But the delay in exiting the station at HPA, the elements-exposed 1/2 block walk to the 7 train, and the need to often let a 7 train or two pass before I could get on made HPA a railfanning experience -- not a commuting experience. (Plus in my case, I still had a 13 block walk up 5th Avenue from the 7.
avid
One other problem is that it was 100% underground. If I got stuck, I couldn't make a call to let people know I was running late. Using Woodside/7/N, I was above ground much of the time. On the E in Manhattan, you could just get off at the next station and hike (and I often did).
I did use the E to Jamaica in the evenings occasionally. If I arrived at 53/5 and there was a delay in WTC-bound service, I found that I could sometimes catch a train to Jamaica which would get me to the same LIRR train at Jamaica that I was going to catch at Penn.
CG
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101965,00.html
NYC is resistant to the railtrail concept, mostly because neighborhood residents believe such trails will bring in 'those' people.
You know...walkers.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Nice as it is, I wonder if rail-trails don't pose a problem in some cases, in that they remove right-of-way from potential future service restoration. The branch of the Cape Cod line that goes to Hyannis is still viable, but due to the rail-trail, any hope of restoring rail service to the lower (outer) Cape in gone.
www.forgotten-ny.com
On the contrary. The ROW has been maintained. Any resumption would be much more difficult had the ROW been sold off or encroached by private development.
An example closer to home is the Upper Harlem Line. The ROW is intact because it is being converted into a rail trail. The recent extension from Dover Plains to Wassaic was possible because the ROW was preserved for rail trail use.
When the Baltimore & Annapolis Railroad ceased operating south of Dorsey Road (Cromwell on the Light Rail today) in the 1980's, Anne Arundel County bought the abandoned ROW to preserve it for future rail transit use. It was converted to a hiking/biking trail.
Fast forward to the 90's. The MTA, looking to extend the Light Rail south of Cromwell to Glen Burnie using the B&A ROW.
No NIMBYS, but the hiking/biking ecofreaks screamed bloody murder.
The LRV's still stop at Cromwell. The tail track raises to cross Dorsey Road - someday, maybe.
Rails to Trails Trails to Trains!!
I've not heard that explanation before. I don't think it's true. If it isn't true, nobody has "forgotten" it.
http://www.americantrails.org/resources/railtrails/RailSalida.html
Self am viewing my Redbird video collection shot in 2000..
I was working the daytime shift today and kept a WATCHFUL eye
on the clock.... I glanced at the time at 10:15, 10:30, 11:15,
12:00 and ironically took lunch at 1:06 (farewell time).
I have TOO MANY Redbird memories to post on 1 thought...
But I do take comfort, in remembering that my LAST RIDE
on the Redbirds was among the company of three good brahs
("What's another hour among friends?").
Thanks Kool-D for pushing me to take in that 1 last round.
Crank up that song, Chris...
Regards,
Jimmy
I did make a memorial for the last set using good 'ol Microsoft Paint.
Regards,
Jimmy
It was even said that the 2 ran local all the way during 9/11 because Flatbush was the only terminal shown and the 2 couldn't end at 14th Street because it is not on the program(I would be open to any other explanation) It is also rumored that the 1 may go back to New Lots next year, if that happens, the inflexible r142s may dictate the 2 running pattern again
it would be interesting to see what happens if any IRT routes were to ever switch terminals...but that remains to be seen
That's my opinion and I don't care what anyone thinks about that
Where's the PROFF??
I'll bet it's only TEMPORARY.....while South Ferry gets reconstructed.
That's my opinion and I don't care what anyone thinks about that Rmadillo.
:{
In other news, let's get going on the second ave subway already!
(and let's continue to put railfan windows into the newest trains, shall we? NOT take them out or blur 'em.)
85,000 more riders than expected. And to think, there were actually people who thought zero people would ride the 50 million dollar line. I guess individuals have more sense than highway lobbyist.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df11032003.shtml#Streetcars
I'm writing this on behalf of some people who definitely won't want to ride SIR.
That's about the size of it. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
A good web page for Staten Island attractions is http://www.statenislandarts.org/cultural/cultural.html
Michael
Washington, DC
1. Ride the the Staten Island Rail road - The railroad leave you within walking distance from the beach. It's not great but better than nothing. Better yet, take a bicycle with you and Staten Island becomes and ADVENTURE! Staten Island is not like the Bronx, Queens or Brooklyn so be warned. To be honest.. It's nicer. (Well, not necessarly for cyclists)
2. They have a nice park called Clove Lakes. Really cool. Just minutes away by rail with bicycle of course.
3. Visit the Staten Island mall - I like this mall alot and it reminds me of Woodbridge. There's even a parking space for bicycles.
4. Ride the rail road all the way to Tottenville and come back to St. George by bicycle. I did this last Sunday and it was a BLAST! (The only bad thing was the rail fan window was covered!) Believe it or not, my GPS showed the distance between Tottenville and St. George to be about 15 miles! This should be a cake walk.
With 'those' gone, the line can now appear even greater than before!
It's unfortunate you can't take the fact that not everyone finds interest in the Redbirds. And in your narrowness, if you want to killfile someone for it, go ahead.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Some of us are still quite testy after yesterday's retirement...
And no, none for the museum. Some for the killfile, maybe.
Even tho I was NOT at the retirement ceremony, seeing the photos
and reading the posts from the trip all just made me HELLA TESTY
today (coming from 1 whom humor and spontaneity be the norm)..
Remember my "Redbird = relative in Intensive Care" analogy??
Well yesterday sure felt like that.
OH MAN was I ever glad I shot those videos in 2000.... all PURE redbirds
on the 2/5/6/7 lines...
And thanks to Brah Salaam for HIS contribution to the videopile.
1NostalgicNights9
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Shhhhhh!! You're gonna start a riot!!
If anything, his decision was narrow to me anyway.
Peace,
ANDEE
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Peace,
ANDEE
As reported by the AP. Article on the NY Times site (free subscription required).
Last cars built in the United States?
Mark
And, that oddballs have a future too.
Peace,
ANDEE
And to remind all of us that no matter what that future may be, no matter how successful we become, and regardless of how well we fit into normal society, anyone who has the slightest association with the hobby is, and always will be, an oddball. Instead of nametags on the next trip, we should all just wear a big scarlet "F" for Foamer.
Scratch scarlet; make it Redbird red ;).
What about the R38, R40, R42, and R44?
Weren't they built by St Louis Car Company AFTER the redbirds?
wayne
Wayne
Gee, I remember some one else said that to a SubTalker recently ?
I think all the single unit R33's are going for work service.
Regards,
Jimmy
IMO, the car movements should have happened like this from the start (based on the initial plan of sending new cars to the 3 rather than the 4):
Since the 7's cars were in worst shape, start by sending R-142's (or R-142A's; I'm not distinguishing between them for the time being) to the 3, allowing R-62A's to go to the 7 right from the start. Second-worst was the 5 fleet, so send the other order first to the 5 and bump off the R-26/28/29's. Then move to the 6, knocking off its birds and sending its R-62A's to the 4 (with extras to the 1/9 and 7, to increase service), to replace its marginal R-33's. Only at the end would the R-142's come to the 2, and this past Monday we would have taken a nice long ride on R-33ML's from Brooklyn to the Bronx.
The end result would have been the same (again, based on the initial plan), but the worst cars would have been removed from service first and the best cars last.
"But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
The waters off NJ and DE are too cold for coral. The furthest north I have seen coral in the water is off Cape Hatteras in North Carolina, where the Gulf Stream brings warm water from the south.
John
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 8:00 AM
Ronkonkoma Branch Customers
Due to a New York & Atlantic Railroad freight derailment, LIRR train service is temporarily suspended east of Farmingdale.
Two freight cars have derailed and are blocking the main track. As a result, train service will be suspended for the morning rush hour.
For alternate train service, Ronkonkoma Branch customers are advised to make their way to the Port Jefferson Branch or the Montauk Branch.
Some limited bus service is being provided between Ronkonkoma and Farmingdale.
There are currently 10 to 15 minute delays systemwide.
In the front of the store near their coffee bar, they have several tables of discount books. I picked up a copy of NFT guidebook to New York City for $2.98. This is the 2003 edition which normally sells for $14.95.
It's an incredible small sized book of close to 300 pages, jammed packed with small sized street maps on almost every page with listings of almost everything. Parking garages, atms, post offices, schools, 24 hour copy shops, liquor stores, restaurants, hardware stores....
It also has a folding MTA map June 2002. On the back of the map is a rough listing of building numbers on all the major north south avenues. (This is not the traditional "drop the last 2 digits, add or subtract a code number and then multiply by 3.14)
I'm really impressed with all the info it packs.
If you like to find mistakes in subway or bus information, it is so loaded with info that I'm sure you can spend hours looking through it.
Thanks again!
I was in Strand Bookstore yesterday on Broadway & E. 12th. They have a load of them by the cash register for $2.95.
Regards,
Jimmy
Regards,
Jimmy
The museum's website is www.bera.org.
Check the site for hours of operations and directions on getting up there. If you don't drive or can't be driven up there, you take Metro North to New Haven. There is a bus (I think route D) to a strip mall called "Trolley Square" and then walk about 5 blocks.
The redbird usually only comes out on railfan weekend days and other special weekend occasions. For reasons connected with the power consumption rates the car will not be brought out on weekdays.
Hope to see you and other Sub-talkers up there !
Then this morning, I bought the paper and I was able to make out my Skee Ball cap.
While I was looking the videotape, I came across the shot I took of the woman photographer on the right and the railfan photographer on the right.
And that's the rest of the picture
The wiggles in my picture seem to be the result of bad brand new tape I was using in the camcorder.
I was also surprised to find a shot of this railfan on the trip
An Old Friend
Do you have a miniDV camcorder? I borrowed my friend's camcorder for the trip and tonight I have to figure out how to get the video on to my hard drive.
You have to remove the two instances of "NOSPAM" from my email address.
"The train cars, named for their brick-red exteriors, have been running from Times Square to the Flushing-Main Street stop since they began delivering commuters in 1959."
"Derrick Richards, 44, a conductor on the Lexington Avenue line, said he remembered the first time he rode the Redbird was to come out to the World's Fair in 1964."
Does anybody in this world remember the aqua colored "World's Fair" paint scheme, or am I the only one?
The other person in that picture is me.
Koi
I went back to the tape and froze this frame when you took a shot at the unarmed photographer.
Shooting an Unarmed Newspaper Photographer
I'm beginning to like the distorted way the cars came out. Maybe I should shoot some tape of the R142's with this same tape.
A couple of frames later, I got a shot of her firing on us.
The Smoking Gun
I'm going to try to contact the photographer from Newsday, Audrey C. Tiernan, and give her a link to this thread. Maybe she'll get a laugh out of it. If being around on so many railfans on Monday didn't crack her up, I'm sure this thread will.
What you need to do is have the heads and guideposts cleaned by a professional with very high percentage isopropyl alcohol (99%, not the 92% or lower "backrub" junk sold in drug stores) which will remove the small amount of adhesive that has accumulated ... on a DRY day (or in the dry electric heat in a redbird which lowers the humidity) this won't be so much of a problem, but when the adhesive gets "wet" the stiction increased until it gets so severe you can hear the tape squealing inside or the tape ejects because the head can't turn at speed any longer. Yours shows evidence of being RIGHT on that ratty edge.
Here's someone else's explanation of the phenomenon - it JUST needs to be cleaned, doesn't need PARTS.
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/av/2002/11/msg00009.html
I'd like to see some GOOD video too! I'm sorry that the museum's arnine collection is so PETER MAX ... they're ALL oddballs, NOT "correct" like Branford's 1689 is except for ONE of them (forget which but that one was an oddball somehow too). I have yet to inspect 825 at Kingston, though STILL dying to personally, so that one may be unblemished by the "Frankentrain project" as well.
SERIOUSLY though, one day, you, me, "bingbong" and Unca Lou gotta fire up 1689 and ease her away from the pier as a select group just to see you grok the point of my comments whilst in yer home. I think you'd REALLY get a kick out of actually MOVING one. :)
When I went to work for the TA, the TRAINS were cool ... once I *did* it, I came to realize that the "system" was ALL ABOUT the PEOPLE! Go for it, I say! Trains are cool and all, but they're just electron suckers ... cold, uncaring, and downright MEAN ... not so for the PEOPLE though - ALWAYS an interesting sidewalk act.
That's the reason why I've derided so many "subway journalists," especially of late ... they JUST DON'T GET IT ... Unca Heypaul GETS it ... you can LOVE trains without going "black helicopter" over it, and again, too many of our "collective" are just *SO* far over the edge. Then there's reality. Heh.
But yeah, for the short time I worked for the TA, I *revelled* in what was presented IN MY FACE at each platform that I had to climb up between cars, and stick my goves in the underside to let in and out of my train. Like I said, subway cars are just toasters on wheels these days, but the HUMANITY that you serve as a member of UMD/TWU 100 was ALWAYS interesting. ;)
Over the years, I've noticed that many railfans on trips with the old equipment get off on the expression on people's faces when the train passes through or stops at a station. It's almost like the railfans are hip to some secret that the people waiting in the stations aren't in on.
I think the look of surprise and wonder on these people's faces is a healthy sign and a sign that they are aware of something different passing by.
On a more negative note, perhaps they are frightened by the looks on the faces of the railfans in the cars. I wonder what we look like to them.
I know I must have seemed quite strange on the Redbird trip walking around with a video camera and holding the storm door open and recording.
On the Redbird trip there was a man sitting by the storm door where I was taping. He seemed very interested to hear that this was the last trip. He was on a cell phone and told the person he was talking to to listen to the conductor making the annoucement that this was the last run of the Redbirds. He asked me a number of questions and was very friendly.
One of my great regrets is not having the camcorder the last night that they ran the PCC cars in Newark. Most of the people on the car I was on, were ordinary people who were on the trip for sentimental reasons. They talked with the operator, who had a religious blessing up on the front of the car.
There was no one expounding on the differences of the R36 and R 33 and R110. The car just had a warm festive feeling to it.
Finally, to go back into my negative mode, if I weren't riding on the trip on Sunday, I think I would chase after the train and take video of the look of some of the railfans inside looking out.
Hey, don't look at me. I'm the only one on the train that smiles and waves excessively to the people on the platform. The rest of the railfans onboard even think I'm weird. But you said it perfectly:
"many railfans on trips with the old equipment get off on the expression on people's faces when the train passes through or stops at a station. It's almost like the railfans are hip to some secret that the people waiting in the stations aren't in on."
That describes me to a t. And there are many SubTalkers that can vouch for it.
Brian... I'm curious... When you're smiling and waving to the people on the platform, is it because you are feeling happy and sharing your joy with people on the platform? Or are you hoping that they will be even more bewildered at the sight of someone waving at them which will result in them looking even more perplexed?
The latter. You seem to understand the concept perfectly. It is so much fun. You really have to watch me do it on Sunday. Maybe you can even join in on the fun. Newkirk Plaza David waves with me a lot. This time I will be waving and filming at the same time.
Is this Peter Kalikow's first trip on a Redbird?
Does he really need a bodyguard?
Why didn't he take the train back to Manhattan? - Hmm.
Hard to believe these were once the Beautiful, New, Blue and White World's Fair Cars.
What time will do.
I think these cars prove that simple and straightforward is not a bad thing, even in an age of tremendous, daily technological progress.
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/133655p-119101c.html
The Discovery Times show "NY Underground" contained several minutes of MTA footage of fish swimming through the subway cars. If you would like, I can let you "borrow" my copy of the show, which I have on a CD. Just email me and let me know.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Ronkonkoma Branch Customers
Due to a New York & Atlantic Railroad freight derailment, LIRR train service is temporarily suspended east of Farmingdale.
Two freight cars have derailed and are blocking the main track. As a result, train service will be suspended for the morning rush hour.
For alternate train service, Ronkonkoma Branch customers are advised to make their way to the Port Jefferson Branch or the Montauk Branch.
Some limited bus service is being provided between Ronkonkoma and Farmingdale
Oh Great! Then a derailment can take out two tracks instead of one.
Besides, that line should be double-tracked anyway.
wayne
Between Farmingdale and Wyandanch.
What's the Montauk Branch? I don't see it on any of the boards? What do you mean, the next column?? Those aren't trains, only the ones right next to the times are trains!
I've heard of the Port Jefferson branch, and that is how I know those aren't trains. My Ronkonkoma train has never gone to Port Jefferson, but sometimes that is next to it on the board!
A good argument for more parking spaces at Ronkonkoma, the lot will have to grow large enough to be an easy walk from Smithtown or Patchogue before anyone will realize those lines exist.
I think the south side lot already IS that large!
A container manufacturer and a propane company in Wyandanch; a couple of manufacturers/warehouses in Deer Park; Prima Asphalt in Holtsville; Triangle Building Products and Gershow Recycling in Medford; and probably some farther east.
My old stomping grounds! I remember around 1969 or so when several trains terminated in Smithtown and the LIRR would use the passing siding to reverse the engine (C420s). This was before the days of using an engine on each end of the train.
I wonder if it was necessary to send these trains to a watery death? i dunno guys any feedback??
I wonder if it was necessary to send these trains to a watery death? i dunno guys any feedback??
Those cars were falling apart and were getting more and more expensive to care for (as you get futher away from when the equipment was built it gets more difficult to get parts). On the Pelham line Redbirds you could see the cracks, the holes, the duct tape used to patch some of those cracks and holes.
Face it - You have to move as technology moves otherwise you get left behind.
BTW - the redbirds were not the better than anything else that the TA had in the fleet. That distinction (IMHO) belongs to the LoVs.
[Yes, I know - some will argue the R-1/9s were the best or the BMT Standards were the best].
Even if you don't want to move with technology you still have to deal with entropy. All good cars will wear out if you give them enough time. Even the Amish have to replace their buggies, even if only with new identical buggies.
Mark
Now granted, this story is second hand, so there are probably lots of mistakes in it. I welcome any corrections that anyone might be able to offer.
Mark
The redbirds were not very well designed cars, even when new. They were expensive; they cost 28% more per square foot than the contemporary Almond Joys their closest competitor. They were not equipped with air conditioning. Their achilles heel was the use of LAHT steel which is why they cannot be repaired.
I would have sympathy for their designers had these shortcomings not been known, when they were designed.
Poorest - Bowery
Now of course I'll never expect to see a farewell to the R32's, they'll last forever.
Regards,
Jimmy
I guess apparently buses don't get the same treatment.
Perhaps they should. The M1s WERE the LIRR for three decades. Not only that, in a sense they and the R44-46 WERE the MTA.
Most of the gradiose promises made when the MTA was organized were never realized. It has had a hell of a fight just to overcome the errors of previous decades, along with a few of its own. The one thing it did do in its first 15 years was upgrade the LIRR and buy the M1s and R44-46s, which were similar in style to reflect a regional entity and idea.
In any event, there has to be a reason to celebrate the retirement of a car class, either to say "thanks" or "good riddance." The "Redbirds" were associated in the popular mind with the demographic transformation of Queens from Archie Bunkerland to the most diverse county in the country, and with the Subway's recovery from the dark days of the 1970s and early 1980s. The R30s were the last car class without air conditioning. The R40s will be the first car class WITH airconditioning, as well as Lindsey's follow -- form over substance. The R32s were the first stainless steel cars purchased en-masse, as well as the most reliable. The R44s-46s represent the aspirations of the MTA era. The R142-143s will represent the first new-tech cars.
I guess the R62 and R68s are the only ones that will be unceremonious dumped.
It is a little bit early to speculate on the R-32, but I think the MTA WILL recognize the amazing Brightliners for what they are, especially if they end up being the oldest NYC subways cars ever to be in continuous service (except for GOH, of course).
Look, I don't care what the new cars look like or what technology they contain. All I want is a non-adulterated RAILFAN WINDOW with protective film as applied to R-142 windows. Other than that, I'm good. Without that, the NYC Subway will lose the interest of those railfans that RIDE the trains, but will not lose the interest of those railfans who prefer to PHOTOGRAPH the trains.
Look at it this way: if all new automobiles were built in such a way that only the driver of the vehicle had a forward view out the front of the car, would car passengers like that?
READ the previous posts. We are discussing AS YET UNBUILT subway cars...
Mark
I'm still waiting to see who the Railfan Party nominates for its presidential ticket next year.
Mark
The IRT Lineage
TypeFromToComposites2000215930003342Hi-Vs33504024Lo-Vs40255702R1257035802R1458035952R15 (low)59535999(6000s used by BMT Triplexes when R15s were ordered)R15 (high)62006252R1663006499R1765006899
(7000s used by BMT Multi-section Units when R21s were ordered)R2170507299R2273007749R2677507859R2878607950(8000 to 8019 used by BMT Bluebird and R11 cars)R2780208249R3082508569R2985708805R3388069345
R3693469769
The R38's (and R32 #3348) are now the only revenue service cars with car numbers shown in the Independent System Car Number font. When they retire, that'll be it for them (at least in revenue service).
I think it'd be cool if the R160's came in with numbers in that font on the # plates, just so it can last until the latter half of this century, maybe even close to the start of the 22nd!
Those are stick on numbers.
Bill "Newkirk"
Regards,
Jimmy
I disagree with your first statement. There certainly is not "no need for a redbird." It would be in the best interests of historical preservation to save at least one example of every significant object in this world that can be saved in a practical manner. The MTA can choose if it thinks another redbird fits the description. I, and it seems you too, feel that a ML redbird should be saved.
Regards,
Jimmy
For what purpose?!?
The M-1's are being dismantled and cut up at the Bombardier plant in Mexico. The Redbirds would follow the same fate.
Bill "Newkirk"
It would be HUMILIATING for people to live in a rusty old train car. Better to build actual housing.
Also remember that the car is already in bad condition to be used for anything and that it would have to be gutted for any of these uses, which would require expensive asbestos abatement.
I'd like to know why the MTA is so preoccupied with feeding redbirds to the fishes when they could be better used to benefit humanity instead.
THEY ARE BENEFITTING HUMANITY! A healthy environment benefits humans. In addition, the placement of Redbirds encourages fish to live in the area which improves fishermen's catch. That improves the local economy (so does the scuba diving), provides cheap food for hungry families and the revenue the locals make is spent in the rest of the economy.
http://www.straphangers.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000408
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
LEXMAN, YOU AND YOUR SO-CALLED FRIENDS GOT ME FIRED FROM RTO! THIS IS TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I GOT MY JOB BACK,AND I WON'T REST UNTIL YOU ARE NO LONGER EMPLOYED BY THE TA! ANYONE THAT COMES TO YOUR DEFENSE WILL ALSO GET FIRED, TOO! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR TITLE IS--YOU'RE MY ENEMY!!! I KNOW YOU'RE RUN ON THE #5 LINE, AND I'LL MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE NO LONGER EMPLOYED BY THE TA BY THE END OF THE YEAR!!! (four angry faces here) AS FAR AS THE TWU IS CONCERNED, I DON'T CARE IF ROGER TOUSSANT HIMSELF TRIES TO DEFEND YOU! HE SHOULD BE DEPORTED BACK TO TRINIDAD! I'M NOT AFRAID OF TWU, OR ANY OTHER UNION FOR THAT MATTER!!! I WILL NEVER REST UNTIL THE TA IS 100% NON-UNION AND NON-CIVIL SERVICE! (four more angry faces) (dated October 30, 2003)
According to SwatExile, same thread:
This thread is being locked, as it contains a personal attack and is otherwise unsuitable for this forum.
Let me be perfectly clear when I say that the only reason I'm not deleting this outright is that it may be called into evidence in a defamation lawsuit. (Recent events at my school are teaching me the value of legal good faith.) Otherwise, it would be straight to the bit bucket. I will not tolerate this kind of incivility in my forum, or for that matter, out of it.
Stand clear of the closing thread, please. (dated October 31, 2003)
According to Lexman, on www.straphangers.com, Rider Diaries : New York City Transit : 4/5/6 Lexington Avenue Line : Ive been THREATENED! :
That heatless goon whom I got dismissed for brining up false accusations against me IS BACK, with a vengeance! He's threatened not only my job, but my future. He's suing me for defamation of character!
HELP!!! (sad face) (dated October 30, 2003)
Allan commented on the same thread:
I have read Union Buster's comments in the closed thread and while I am not a lawyer, I do recommend that you report that to the Police Department as he has made a direct threat to you.
A person like that could be prone to violence.
(dated October 31, 2003)
And Psycoperl added his two cents, on same thread:
You know if he tries to assault you, he has a bigger legal problem (smiling) Check out the new ads and signs about it. The Legislature in Albany has done one smart thing: They made assaulting a conductor or motorman or station agent the same as assaulting a cop (smiling) (dated November 1, 2003)
Thus prompting AlexL to reply thusly, on same thread:
That's only assaulting one of us IN UNIFORM while PERFORMING OUR DUTIES.
(dated November 1, 2003)
Also of note is this comment, from the same thread as before, from Gotham Bus Co.:
Actually, you didn't get him fired. He got himself fired by consciously choosing to harass you and others, and this time he's harassing you through the court system. Looks like history might repeat itself. (dated November 1, 2003)
Any of you care to comment? Looks like a Strategic Lawsuit against Public Participation (SLAPP suit) to me. Yuck. This is serious stuff, folks. Why is complaining so troublesome that someone wants to beat up someone about it? Why not get a job somewhere else, Union Buster? Like Wal-Mart or something. I heard theyre also anti-union!
The best thing WE can do right now is to stop talking about it, because none here have any say or influence in what is or is not going to be saved. All we can do is make it harder for them, because if push comes to shove at the top, they'll A-L-L go into the water !
.....or the R12/14's
.....etc.
(finally! ANYTHING to respond to!)
See:
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lilirr1104,0,5581095.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
CG
What is a signal bridge?
They can also be called signal gantries.
A signal bridge is any signal structure that completely bridges the tracks. Don't confuse it with a Cantilever mast/gantry that L's out over the tracks.
Track 12 - N/9309-9582-9583-9584-9585-9587-9586, coupled to 9313, two R-62A's, 9316 and another R-62A unit/S.
Track 16 - N/9318 coupled to 9307/S. Note that #9318 had his interior lights on, has no scratched windows at all, and missing each a destination front roll sign box on each bulkhead end.
Obviously, R-36wf units 9564-9565 and 9616-9617 were removed and no where to be seen...and so swiftly at that.
For your added information, the conductor on that final run from yesterday seen was doing platform duty today in the 10:00am hour (11/04/2003) at 111th Street-Corona, insuring that all passengers were off #7 trains discharged there before there were sent to lay up in the yard. By the way, for some reason, he was wearing a quasi-gold medal on his blazer lapel.
-William A. Padron
[The R-33s/36wf's Era: September 26, 1963 - November 3, 2003.]
Do you think they would change it?
The next step is to remove the rollsign anyway.
BTW, you saw 9582-9583, not 9588-9589.
I believe 9564-5 and 9616-7 are the 4 R36 being scrapped.
see http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=596693
However, I was not on the farewell trip yesterday, because I was working that day. Let us just say that I was there on the train "in spirit", while I was aware that everyone I personally knew who would be there for that historic moment in transit history.
-William A. Padron
[An R-10 fan living in Flushing line territory]
That's Peter Dougherty. If one goes to the contributor's page on this site and click on Tracks Of The NYC Subway, you'll get information on his book....
Also, his maps are available online.
A word of advice, don't type in caps. It's considered to be shouting.
-Stef
WHAT THE JOB INVOLVES: Transit Property Protection Agents perform routine work in the surveillance of subway stations, train yards and adjacent grounds on New York City Transit Authority property in order to provide protection against terrorist acts, trespass, damage and loss; make written reports; read, interpret, and follow special
written instructions and directives; drive a motor vehicle; and perform related work.
Some of the physical activities performed by Transit Property Protection Agents and environmental conditions experienced are: standing for lengthy periods of time, including standing at posts and patrolling facilities; staying continuously alert; walking up and down stairs and over extended distances that cover the perimeter of Transit properties; hearing alarms from doors, cars, etc.; confronting unauthorized persons on New York City Transit Authority properties; walking along subway tracks where a live third rail is present; and working outside in all kinds of weather.
(This is a brief description of what you might do in this position and does not include all the duties of this position.)
THE SALARY: The current minimum salary is $13.28 per hour for a 40-hour week with increments to a current maximum of $18.97 after four years. These rates are subject to change. In addition, incumbents receive night and weekend differentials, paid holidays, vacations and sick leave, a comprehensive health plan and a pension plan.
HOW TO APPLY: If you believe that you meet the requirements in the "How to Qualify" section, refer to the "Required Form" section below for the form that you must fill out. Return the completed form and the application fee to DCAS Applications Section, 1 Centre Street, 14th floor, New York, NY 10007 by mail only. Applications
will not be accepted in person.
HOW TO QUALIFY:
Education Requirement: At the time of appointment, you must have a four-year high school diploma or its educational equivalent.
License Requirements:
1. At the time of appointment, you must have a motor vehicle driver license valid in the State of New York with no restrictions or encumbrances. Serious moving violations, license suspension or an accident record, may disqualify. This license must be maintained for the duration of employment.
2. At the time of appointment, all candidates must show valid proof of prior filing for a New York State Guard License. By the end of the probationary period, probationers must possess a New York State Guard
License. Failure to secure this license will result in the termination of their services. This license must be maintained for the duration of employment.
Medical Requirement: Medical guidelines have been established for the position of Transit Property Protection Agent. Candidates will be examined to determine whether they can perform the essential functions of the position of Transit Property Protection Agent. Where appropriate, a reasonable accommodation will be provided for a
person with a disability to enable him or her to take the examination, and/or to perform the essential functions of the job.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/11/04/last.red.subway.ap/index.html
I hate it when these guys get things like this wrong. Makes you think about the rest of the news, huh?
>>>" I hate it when these guys get things like this wrong."<<<
yeah, especially when Channel 4 interviewed a "SubTalker" at Times
Square that morning awating the arrival of the final RedBird trainset.
Webmaster Dave, even caught the interview and forwarded a photo
to the Railfan being interviewed. Well, it was expected that the
footage would be edited. >>GG<<
8-\ ~ Sparky
SalaamAllah 460 west montana street Pasadena
Ca 91103
Dude, LEARN HOW TO TYPE. And while you're at it.................LEARN ENGLISH!
You know how cantankerus arnines could be with sticky doors ... those things were HORRIBLE. And for someone who plays in a set of those with water faucets in the cab and slanty-panels, you of all people should be slapping me with a mackerel for speaking the truth. :)
I always liked the old pics like those you just posted too.
Here you go:
http://www.frugalphotographer.com/cat04.htm
*bookmarked*
I was *just* browsing through all the pics of that trip this afternoon, and I saw that pic with you in the railfan window, and I thought, "Hey, there's a kid in the window."
Didn't know it was you!
Thanks.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.5 COMING SOON!
The Van Courtlandt Madman
THEY'RE GETTING RID OF THE DIAMOND 6 ?
OH HELL NO.
Personally, I prefer to sit on a train than to stand on a platform.
Afterward, don't come back and complain about headway.
The stations between Whitlock Ave. and 125 street I could do without stopping at.
I rode the 6 last week.
I rode the 1 last week.
6 took hella longer to get into manhattan (or atleast an express transfer point)
Do the J and Z still run skip/stop? I took a few J's Z's at rush hour for the last revision and all of them ran local north of Broadway Junction.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.5 COMING SOON!
But at least that skip-stop makes sense, unlike the 1/9. I can't imagine why it would be eliminated.
That's the easy part. The hard part is to convince Charlie Pellett to stop telling everyone on the 2 that they can transfer to the 1 and 9 trains.
http://www.lirrhistory.com/nymbry.html
If only it could have been absorbed by the BRT/BMT at some time and we could have had a cross-Brooklyn line today!
Amazing how long it lasted right next to the 4 track Brighton line - sometimes hend-to-head competition makes no sense at all, but who can argue with big egos??
I'd like to find out more about the signal modernization project on the Concourse line. How much (if any) work has been done on this project to date? Is there any evidence of new signal heads on that line yet or is everything still in a preliminary stage?
Speaking of signals, I know the new signals were cut in between Freeman and Jackson on the 2/5 a couple of weeks ago. Are there any new IRT to B-division style signal projects ongoing at this time, or is everything cut over that will be cut over for a while? I believe the Dyre line is still old style as is the E180th Interlocking, and I haven't seen anything indicating they will be converted for the time being. Can anybody shed light on this?
Next, is anything left to be done on the Canarsie line's re-signaling and track work or is it complete now? I probably won't get there for a few days yet.
Finally, does anybody know of a projected cut-over date to the new configuration on the Nassau Street line between Canal Street and Essex? This was showing good progress earlier this year, but I haven't heard anything in months. Any word folks??
Thanks to one and all!
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.5 COMING SOON!
Haven't seen anything, either. It looks like they're still using those "3-headed monsters" up there, too, and the home signal southbound at 149/G.C. is still X 14L, but the signal just south of the station on the northbound side appears to be getting replaced.
Also bear in mind that there are new switches installed, north and south of Jackson Av. The old switch south of Prospect which takes you from Track M to Track 2 is in the process of being removed. Immediately north of Jackson is the new switch installation which takes you from Track 2 to Track M. So far that I can tell, the signals are 258 ball (on M) and 260 Ball (on 2).
South of Jackson there is a new switch which takes you from Track M to Track 3. A new signal has been established for wrongrail movements on Track 3 from the Northbound Platform at Jackson Av. Sorry don't know those signals. Finally, Track M now ends in a wye configuration upon merging with Tracks 2 and 3.
Before I forget, there are newly installed punchboxes at 3rd Av 149th St, N/B and S/B plats for routings. When all is said and done, Tracks 2 and 3 will be reverse signalled for wrongrail moves between Jackson and 149th St-GC.
Hope this helps,
Stef
I included the new switches in the latest revision but I hadn't heard about the one being removed. Is that a permanent removal or a renewal, do you know? I will take another ride all the way up there, but without my railfan window, it will be a trickier view, alas.
Do you know if the northbound homeball north of the portal has been cut over to the new numbers yet? It was X-12R last time I rode through there a few months back.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.5 COMING SOON!
The indication would be the placement of new signals in the vicinity of Prospect Av. An automatic will replace the homeball on Track 2 at Prospect, while an automatic will replace the homeball for N/B movements on Tack M. There is no signal at present to replace the homeball for wrongrail moves on Track 2 to Prospect Middle. At the new switch north of Jackson, an automatic has been installed to prohibit wrongrail moves from the S/B plat at Jackson (On 2 Track). A train would have to go south of Jackson to turn around.
There is however, a newly placed interlocking signal in front of the partially removed switch for S/B moves on Track M, but that would be merely to control the block in the area.
In reference to your question, the signals have not receieved new numbers as of yet.
-Stef
Thanks for the heads-up on this. I did actually have some information on this one, but I sincerely appreciate the update. I will definitely ride through there in the next week or so.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.5 COMING SOON!
The master tower is being built on the Mezz. of the Bedford park Blvd. station. The real signal work has not started yet but I heard that it will be 54 months until its done.
54 MONTHS!!?? Yikes! I had no idea it was that massive an undertaking. I'd have figured for a few miles of three-track line it wouldn't have been more than a year or two. So I guess we're looking mid-2008!
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.5 COMING SOON!
Congrats on the "real" job at the MTA....have fun on the system and now you can have access to many of those unique areas the general pulic cant get to.
DO ME A FAVOR PLEASE !!!!
Will you PLEASEeeeee ( again, + again...heh heh) clear up your YAHOO Email Account as its bouncing messages (from our NYCTMG Group and other groups yo may be in) as your Yahoo email account mailbox is FULL.
Your membership with us is under "suspension"until your account can accept emails (and messages)
I sent you a number of Reactivation Notice form-notices and they are boucing
This is the only quick way I can "reach you" at your other home here at Subtalk !!!
Best Regards! --Joe
Joseph Frank
Webmaster
New York City Transit Modelers Group (Forum)
Gotta get that boy some handle time at Branford on a redbird as compensation ...
Chuck Greene
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Operation of selected RT equipment at Branford can be arranged as part of the "Guest Operator" program. I don't know for sure what the 2004 schedule will be, but if it follows the 2003 pattern it will be on the third Saturday and the immediately following Sunday of each month from May through October, as these are the days when the RT equipment is brought out to play. (RT schedule subject to change, of course, but I presume that the "guest operator" schedule would change with it in that case.) An operator who is properly qualified on the equipment would guide you as you operated the car either from the station at Avenue L to Short Beach or from Short Beach back to Avenue L (normally we have two guest operators on each run, one operating each direction). The cost in 2003 was $20 plus membership (for those who aren't already members); again, I don't know if that will change for 2004, but I have my doubts. Similar arrangements can be made for streetcar operation. In addition, we train new volunteer streetcar operators every March, and again special arrangements can usually be made to train newbies who for whatever reason cannot attend the regular training sessions.
Any further questions email me, Sparky, Lou, or our training director Jeff Hakner and we'll try to answer.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
The whole thing was staged.
If you want PROFF, you can search the archives for my comments on Redbirds.
Printed it on glossy paper, it's now framed and hanging on my office wall.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
I feel that.
It could be that some are being scrapped in order to rebuild others.
But (the maybe) comes in: these are highlevel cars, does Mexico have any high level platforms?
And (another maybe) these all have non-standard couplers, and control systems, presumably these would all have to be pulled out.
I suspect they will all go for scrap.
It's just cheaper to do it down there.
Elias
I wouldn't mind having a personal train consisting of two M1s...of course it would be hard to run them out here in KC. I'd need a locomotive.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
The R-142's might be governed. They used to be governed, I think to 40. I don't know if that's changed.
I would have loved to have been on your train for that.
I wish they'd do that for the in-service runs! But alas, 'tis not so :-(
There are three of those neat 4500-series Brooklyn Rapid Transit 1906 semiconvertibles still around - 4547 at Seashore, 4573 at Branford and 4550 at the Middletown & Hummelstown near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. That last one is the one I'm wondering about.
It's more-or-less complete (and it's pretty good body-wise too), but I have no idea what its history is. It suddenly appeared on the radar as a wreck at Station Square in Pittsburgh in about 1981 (my father took photos of it, and the Lake Shore Electric interurban car that kept it company, there before both were cosmetically restored), but I don't know where it was prior to that. Does anyone know when 4550 was taken out of service, and where it went after leaving B&QT?
Frank Hicks
The story I have is that it was sold to the people who built Tomorrowland, then a short line in MA, then someplace else in PA, then Station Square, and presently in Middletown & Hummelstown. The folks who apparently moved it out of 9th Ave carhouse weren't worried about its future operation so anything underbody was torched off!!
There is some controversy over whether the trucks under 4550 now are actually BRT trucks or not.
NEW SUBJECT:
Wouldn't this car look great OPERATING in Brooklyn?? I know I DO!!
The story I have is that it was sold to the people who built Tomorrowland, then a short line in MA, then someplace else in PA, then Station Square, and presently in Middletown & Hummelstown. The folks who apparently moved it out of 9th Ave carhouse weren't worried about its future operation so anything underbody was torched off!!
There is some controversy over whether the trucks under 4550 now are actually BRT trucks or not.
NEW SUBJECT:
Wouldn't this car look great OPERATING in Brooklyn?? I know I THINK SO!!
I concur, lets bring 4550 back to Brooklyn.
8-) ~ Sparky
The C does not go up to Fordham Road anymore. The C ceased to exist in 96 or 97, replaced by the B. That was seven years ago!
As for the 2 and <5>, I'm assuming they mean the E. 180th St. stop, which is technically 10 blocks away, because the Metro-North stop is Fordham Road and 190th. And it's a freakin' long walk, unlike the D train.
And at the Atlantic Ave. station in Brooklyn, they have a sign that says "Transfer: Yellow Q, Orange Q, 2, 2, 3, 5." Now you can pick which color Q you want to take, or one of two different 2 trains!
Any other mistakes you've noticed in your daily travelings?
I've never noticed any odor emanating from MTA signage?
"Limeted rush hour service to 179 St."
Since when was "Limited" spelled as "Limeted?" They have thankfully changed that, though one stray sign remains.
DeKalb Avenue used to have a sign for the Yellow Q and Orange Q as well. Plus the former entrance to the station (which is being reconstructed as I speak) had signs pointing to two M trains.
Newkirk Plaza David knows of many more inaccurate signs throughout the system. :)
Here's one from DeKalb Avenue/Flatbush Avenue that you forgot to mention. It was found over one of the middle stairways to the platform for southbound trains. The picture was taken or around 20 October 2003.
Hmm... perhaps that will be my new thing. Going into the city in search of mistakes on signs. God knows there are plenty of them. I know this one isn't as spectacular as the rest, but there is a sign "to canal Street" instead of "to Canal Street" at Alantic Ave. too.
I love searching for mistakes. It's the editor in me.
My home station, 169 St, does have remnants of what looks like a map from 1994. Its pasted onto an ad panel, and much of it has disintegrated.
"As for the 2 and <5>, I'm assuming they mean the E. 180th St. stop, which is technically 10 blocks away, because the Metro-North stop is Fordham Road and 190th. And it's a freakin' long walk, unlike the D train. "
It is a long walk, but I for one would prefer to provide some information at the station about subway service in the area. Perhaps a neighborhood map, as you see in subway stations, would be useful.
Speaking of Neighborhood Maps. With the sole exception of a few stations in Midtown Manhattan, ALL and I mean ALL of the "Neighborhood Map"s are from the year 1985. They show the JFK Express, the C to Bedford Park, the B to 168th Street, the 5 to 241st Street, the R to Astoria, the N to Queens Blvd, the V, W, and blue S don't exist, the D, M, and yellow Q run on the Brighton Line, the B still runs on the West End, the H still exists in the Rockaways, as does the K in Manhattan, oh GOD...
There's a sign at DeKalb that shows (M)(N)(R)(W) (D)(Q), a sign at 86th Street/CPW that shows a < B >.
Actually, the (Q) is in orange, too.
And I also remember a sign at Prospect Park that said the Q was the express and the Q was the local.
IMO, it's not a big deal. The point of the maps is to give people leaving the station an idea of its surroundings at street level. The subway lines are only on the map for orientation purposes. They should be updated, but I don't consider it a very high priority.
But DUH!!, the entrances on the new maps that were fully closed since 1985 are STILL on the 2002-2003 versions, as well as some of the newer entrances that are NOT on the maps.
Examples:
(#1) Neightborhood map for the Upper West Side does not have the newer entrance at the S/W corner of 87th St/Broadway for the #1/9 trains.
(#2) Neightborhood Map for downtown Brooklyn has the South Portland Avenue entrance on ther IND Crosstown line still open, even though it's been over 10 years since the exits were converted to an employee facility.
If that sign claims that the 2 and <5> are six blocks east of the Fordham Metro-North station, they're WAY off. If you go east on Fordham Road, you'll hit the 2 and <5> at Pelham Parkway and White Plains Road, a good mile and a half away. The East 180th Street station is even further away.
- The new IRT car's route maps are also poorly designed. You would think they would could design such signs so that they could be accurate based on time of day, or at least reflect major service changes (W trains thru the rathole on weekends for example). They aren't. The signs themselves are line-dedicated (my 2 train this morning had a 5 train route map left off)
- The part time service signage on maps and stations is confusing. The 4 train's (for example)internal maps show their night service to New Lots, but few external train stations signs do (though downtown at Astor there is a 4 sticker on the sign) There should be a color variation for part time service stops. Perhaps a white circle with a green 4 (for example) at the local stations the 4 serves for practically a quarter of its day.
- There is still a "K" train sign at 42nd street on the downtown side.
Mark
Chuck Greene
Mark
Mark
: )
Mark
Mark
Mark
MTA Long Island Rail Road
Service Alert
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 7:45 PM
The LIRR is currently operating on or close to schedule out of Penn Station.
Ronkonkoma Branch Customers
Eastbound train service to Ronkonkoma has been restored. We expect 10 to 15 minute delays through the area. Westbound customers will take buses at their stations to Hicksville where they will transfer to trains to complete their trips.
It appeared that Amtrak was getting trains through, as there were three Amfleet trains and one Acela express going by on the middle tracks southbound while we were waiting.
As of now (21:16), there is still an advisory on the NJ Transit web site.
John
CG
That depends. If I recall correctly, North Tube is shared by LIRR and Amtrak; South Tube is LIRR only (or it could be I have them reversed).
It is possible the LIRR trains were stalled in front of the LIRR only tunnel. So long as Amtrak's trains used platforms with access to the other tube, Amtrak service could continue.
The northern tubes are predominantly LIRR, but not exclusively. The southern tubes are predominantly NJT/Amtrak, but not exclusively.
CG
Of all the places a R142 can go, Is it me or is the assholes who run the MTA are just putting timers in places that dont need timers?
Of all the places a R142 can go, Is it me or is the assholes who run the MTA are just putting timers in places that dont need timers?
I'm sorta glad the redbirds aren't around to see this disgusting injustice perpetrated. But not really. Bring back the ML's!
Arti
I don't suppose they're going to stick a timer at 66th St. n/b. That would really suck.
Wayne
It is exactly that, though the window on the back of the train has been called the "Anti-Railfan Window" by one of our fellow Subtalkers.
Held my lunch.
What's the big deal?
Speaking of Nausea, is R36 9685 on the 7 still rambling on about the redbirds? See I made him the first person since E_Dog to be on my killfile, and I refuse to take him off, so thats why I have to ask.
Mark
Chuck Greene
At the reverse (anti) railfan window, however, on DC Metro, I have no problem (maybe because I'm distracted by the view?). But seated, no. I have to sit facing forward, or I WILL stand. Why? I don't know. Just is the case with me, though.
Ben F. Schumin :-)
In fact, that term is growing in popularity. There are now at least three SubTalkers who call it by its correct name, the "anti-railfan window."
But, wouldn't you say that three people calling it that doesn't necessarily make it the "correct" term?
I'm one of them. 8-D
I call it the Reverse Railfan Window.
A Wodniw Nafliar is the same only facing backwards.
A Railfan View is where you are seperated from the outside by two or more translucent panes.
A Crappy Railfan View is where you are seperated from the outside by two or more tinted, dirty or polerized translucent panes.
A Railfan Portal is where you are seperated from the outside by two or more translucent panes that are partially obstructed by paint, newspaper, metal plates, curtains, jackets, etc.
A railfan is the person who blocks your view of the front window. :0)
Mark
Also, a railfan window HAS to provide an unobstructed view of the road (no scratchitti for good photo quality).
Show's anybody who's jaded with transit what goes on elsewhere:
Home builders and construction-related businesses are the top contributors to a campaign aimed at defeating a transportation plan and related sales-tax increases that go before city voters Tuesday, according to campaign finance reports.
The Committee for Real Regional Transportation, a group that opposes propositions 200 and 201, reported raising $77,500 by the most recent filing deadline of Oct. 15.
I've thought about that, but I couldn't imagine building a rail line that would slow their growth of building shoddy sub-divisions. But it must be like that though, since the toughest most vocal election and public interest fights are ones concerning builders vs. railroaders. I don't see where the line of coexistance has been drawn at. Highways get maxed out very easy.
The list of the top five cities that young single people flock to came out the other day, 4 out of five have a decent transportation structure or are in the process of building one, and the fifth, I don't get. It's interesting how those same four are ones I thought about living in too.
Portland(we all know what's up there). Vegas(wasn't bad when I was round here). Atlanta(know a few that's here now). Charlotte(growing city with future LRT line). naples(HUH? I thought only old people with 30million dollar homes moved here).
Obviously cities you can't get around in, or have no centers/walking centers weren't on here.
Not in this order.
In order to justify public transport, you need a reasonably high housing density. Otherwise people just drive cars. This tends to mean that the property taxes per unit are not as high compared with the lower density McMansions, but the demand for infrastructure is the same or higher, particularly schools, which are the biggest chunk of a townships budget.
So the townships are conspiring with the builders for either low density housing, or eldercare sheltered housing (where there are no kids) to minimize their outlays.
Roads are a lot less expensive to build per mile than either light or heavy rail (though I wonder how that works out if you look at the cost per passenger mile). We are used to building roads on the basis of if you build it, they will come, but we dont plan at all for any high-density transport after the fact, which is one of the reasons why retrofitting any sort of rail project after the fact is so expensive.
I dont have a solution to this, as the builder/road lobbies are very strong in local communities (check out how many builders/contractors are on local councils!). Even when politicians acknowledge that there have to be some limits to growth, such as Jim McGreevys Smart Growth plans in New Jersey, they are scuttled by the lobbyists without any rational discussion.
Unfortunately, while this behavior is immoral, its not actually criminal.
Another place these assholes should go to is the DC area. Check out all of the places they stuck apartments, condos and houses along WMATA Metrorail lines, and tell me how much profit the developers are making off the LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!
Speaking of LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION, they should go to Dallas. I hear that DART is causing a boom there.
Actually they should get out of the awful smog that passes for air in Houston, and check out the cities I mentioned. Then they should put their money behind Metrorail in Houston, instead of against it.
Everything you said is right, and those aren't even the only examples too!! The value's of those places are higher than normal due to their high demand too.
The day I get my way, will be the day I live within a 1000 yards of a train station of some sort. I'll keep my car for recreation, which is the only thing I like using it for, not staring at the pavement on a highway trapped.
Not even mentioning park and ride(your parking and riding on a highway anyway!).
If he's smart, though, he'll make friends with people who can help him subcontract on those jobs, and bone up on his skills so he can compete. Where he might formerly be skirting permits and codes, for example, he really has to pay attention now, and so on.
But people can be lazy.
The flip side is that the senators and congressmen from states such as Arizona are the ones who block federal mass transit capital funds for large cities such as New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc. These same folks don't seem to be parochial when it comes to getting federal aid for their highways or federal dollars for their defense contractors.
Wrong. Boeing moved virtually their entire helicopter operation to Mesa, AZ for a reason.
Imagine how much less traffic Los Angeles would have today if the city still had it's Red Cars and the more than 1,000 miles of track they rode on. Who framed Roger Rabbit? The same people who tell your city, "Don't build light rail!"
I like that quote.
Oh, also, the Q express I was on, an R40, was packed tight in all except for one car, 4315, where there were NO PEOPLE in there at all. Not a single person! Anyone know what the deal with THAT is?
Did it smell?
Was there something on the floor/seats?
As for R68 2755, its original numberplates were damaged during delivery and were replaced with numberplates resembling those on the R38s.
David
Where did they get the replacement numberboard from? An old BMT Standard or did they have someone manufacture it?
David
wayne
#3 West End Jeff
Eskimo pie?
wayne
Eeewwwwwwww!!!!
The Van Courtlandt Madman
My boss says that Car 2755 was involved in a collision leaving Coney island Yard on it's first day of service. A flatcar was pushed through the side of the car. The nomber board is actually 4 stick-on numbers.
the Q express I was on, an R40, was packed tight in all except for one car, 4315, where there were NO PEOPLE in there at all. Not a single person!
Sometines cars are isolated because of infectious waste or someties because of vandalism such as missing glass. The train can stay in service until it reaches its terminal.
Otherwise, yes, vote, if you don't the other side always wins(that's what they count on sometimes).
:)
....and accomplished our goals!!!!
I didn't/couldn't vote since I wasn't in the district in question though, but it's a good day for us humans in my neck of the woods. Hopefully voter turn-out did the same in other areas. :)
First One
Most Equipment
Most People Riding It Per Day
Most Stations
Newest
Your Favorite
-Robert King
Car Equipment is holding a Car Appearance Rodeo on Saturday at 207th Street Yard (employees only I imagine, though the flyer does not say so). The rodeo runs from 7A to 1P.
As part of the "entertainment," they will be running the "Museum Type R-9 Cars." Southbound the train will leave 207th Street Yard and operate via Tracks A5/A3/A4 to 59th Street/Columbus Circle. There the train will relay and operate via Tracks A4/A2/A6 to 207th Street Yard.
The GO runs from 0700 to 1600 hours. It states: "The Excursion Train will repeat the operation indicated above until the completion of the General Order." No other specific times are cited in the GO for the train's operation.
Be guided accordingly, as we say in RTO. It may only be out there between 8A and 11A or so.
Please voice your opinions.
Come to think of it, have you ever seen how crowded those elevators get, and how much space the operators take up? Remove the operator and five or six more passengers will fit in the elevator.
'Elevate the Heights' is the group fighting the cuts.
They just put them NWA (no work available) you use up your sick and vacation time until you have none left and then you get zero money.
AND NYCT is exempt from having to provide disability insurance,
AND they argue that putting you out NWA does not make you eligible for unemployment insurance.
Suppose a passenger jumps in front of a train and the motorman can't stop and is seriously traumatized by the incident. What recourse does the motorman have?
Now we do not get disability insurance unless we get individual policies which are VERY expensive relative to what everyone else pays.
I said that it would cost the same to pay them their full salary while they stay home and have no one operate the elevator.
What I am saying is that if they can't get an E/O spot they stay home unpaid.
Could you please tell me how you figure one elevator operator on a stool and carrying a portable radio equals 5 passengers.
The system has some dehumanizing elements, such as prerecorded annoucements which do give full clear information. Yet for me, they are irritating and steile. I enjoy listening to an occasional conductor who barely speaks English, but does it in a refreshing way. Or there is a regular conductor on one of the lines that I ride who has a real fascinating, deep, yet weary voice.
That's a million-dollar job.
Who pays more vigorish to the politicos? Otis or mom and pop? Asked and answered.
Bad example. The TA should do more of that. An eevator operator can be retrained to be a car cleaner or perform other duties, and recent TA layoffs are making it more urgent for the TA to be able to flexibly use staff.
My attitude: Install the new elevator and offer the elevator operators lteral transfers to other areas.
As to feeding your family, Unca Kev himself understood how important it was to learn new skills and adapt. You would not have been able to leqave the TA and do what you're doing now without that. Maybe the elevator operators should think about that. New Yorkers have more opportunity to learn new skills than just about anywhere else in the country.
Remember "welfare reform," or "pick yourself up by your bootstraps?" "Welfare to work?" and numerous other incentives to get people off the dole and out working for themselves? THESE are the folks we're now casting off. The folks who lived by the rules and WORKED for a living. Retraining funds are virtually nonexistent these days.
I've been flat broke too in my past, been through the worst of the worst too. And before I come off sounding like some pasty liberal, I'm anything but. As a direct result of having been there. System's all wrong. There SHOULD be "public assistance" ... AS A LOAN! Everyone is down and out sometime in their life. Often a haircut, shave and a suit to wear on an interview is all someone in a trap needs to get back into the ledger as a positive. "Government programs" have NEVER offered this simple and most cost-effective option. I'll leave that as one conceptual view into my own mindset and defer any further comment, now or in replies since this is WOEFULLY off topic for here.
I'll just leave it at there *ARE* solutions ... but they're not in the gubbamint playbook of EITHER party ... and neither is interested in a REAL solution that will work. Meanwhile the world, like the subways, continues to deteriorate. It's deja vu all over again. :(
David
I *do* see the safety concern ... maybe we can replace them with assigned GUARDS. I'd rather see a few trains get tagged as preferred to PEOPLE. But I *do* see the safety concerns. It's way different "off-peak" than a packed Otis at rush hour. :(
But seriously, aside from right wing madness, I still believe that there needs to be SOMEBODY "assigned," at least off-peak. Maybe I should hit up the Secretary of State and form "MILLAR Security Corp." ... MUCH better to hand that check to a corporation that can charge $30,000 a WEEK than some poor schlump with a radio. :-\
And I mean no harm to you personally, the idea strikes me as SO antithetical to the "New York Experience" ... and since, unlike upstate, concealed sidearms are prohibited, I don't really see another choice for the riders. (in all seriousness here)
SAFETY: "If there are 16 people in the elevator, it's guaranteed not to get stuck."
SECURITY: "If there are 16 people in the elevator, I'm guaranteed not to get mugged."
See the difference?
But again, it's not for a SubTalker to determine whether this is a security issue. It's up to the NYPD and NYCT security people.
David
But yeah, in these contrived "bunker times of black helicopters hovering overhead" (like Daddy's administration) I suppose smokers prefer the Uzi. :(
But I'm not arguing your point. I missed it originally, because the CONCEPT reminded me so much of the politicos paying us to conduct yet ANOTHER "realignment of the deck chairs" so I've become numb to "let's change this title to THIS title, call Civil Service and fill out a "parity" report, then let out a personal services contract to the Totterdam dog catcher who got caught with the 13 year old, send him to the city and put him into a Management Confidential title in the MTA." No joke, old politicians don't die, they get LINE-ITEMED!
If you're REAL GOOD and are owed many political favors, you go to COMMERCE ... if you're an a$$hat, you go to the MTA ... politicians are easily satisfied with titles too ... the word "planner" sounds important and buries a knocked-up secretary ... no joke ... seen it all. That's why political word games just breeze right past my head. Sorry I missed it the first time. Bottom line though, you're RIGHT ... the only silly place where we disagreed apparently is *WHO* is in the elevator and can't get out.
Frankly, I'd rather SECURITY spend their time OUTSIDE the elevator, keeping the ne'er-do-wells AWAY from it. But let's also be real here - there's such a thing as a "diversion" to "draw off all cops" so something else can be played around the corner ... Sgt JEFF? Can you tell us about any "diversions" you've seen played in any of the precincts YOU were in? To MY experience, "bomb scare" is just another sidewalk act. What can I say? I grew up in Da Bronx. HOME of the sidewalk act. :)
David... What does your statement mean? Should we not be discussing this issue here? Are we going out of the chain of command?
I don't believe the MTA has commissioned Subtalk to solve their problems, although many subtalkers seem willing to offer up solutions.
Giving that we are not members of the MTA Security Committee, then I see no problem with any us discussing this, even if the discussions here sometimes sound like air being blown out of someone's rear end.
By the way, it should be noted that many elevators throughout the subway system are not staffed and have never been staffed.
David
Oh David... You're feeding me straight lines today.
Once a fact has been established, opinions to the contrary are meaningless. I love that. Maybe I've grown cynical in my twilight years.
Let's see... After 9/11, government agencies assured people living and working in downtown Manhattan that there was no need to worry about the air quality.
It seemed like a fact that was established.
During the 1950's, the Atomic Energy Commission said that there was no need to worry about radiation even if you lived downwind of a nuclear test. Maybe close your windows and keep Johnny inside for a little while.
Our President reassures us that the government is doing all they can do to protect us from terrorists. We should feel safe. Strange that someone was able to break through the security that surrounds him.
Even though it is meaningless, I will continue to discuss this issue.
I fished up two articles about some of the elevator operators from the uptown stations.
An Unusual Life 100 Feet Down and Up and Down Again
Warm Memories Lost to Cold Steel Walls
By the way, according to the July version of the 2004 NYCT operating budget, which is still available on the MTA website, each station to lose elevator operators is still to have operator coverage for one elevator 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Funny how the news media missed that fact...and that's MY opinion.
David
Would you want to be on an elevator with only one or two other guys in Washington Heights at 3 in the morning? I don't think so...
Read a book about muggers. If not a book, search Google for tips on mugging people. Most muggers look to get a victim in an isolated situation. Other people present creates problems.
You know I never thought of that. I have no answer to that question. I'm overwhelmed by your debating skills.
You know I'm being sarcastic, which isn't nice.
I'm sorry. Let me use your own words to tell you what I think of your argument.
That's pretty stupid.
A person surveilling an elevator by camera can also call for help.
Right, I believe that.
No he will not. It is job to report suspicious activity. Do you seriously think that a mugging could possibly look like something legal?
Assuming his wasn't distracted by something else.
You were the one who first mentioned an employee's failure to report crime occuring on the job.
If someone can spend 8 hours in a steel box pressing buttons like a trained monkey, then yes, someone can spend 8 hours looking at a TV.
You're one to talk.
In addition, an E/O will not cause any reports to get to the PD faster.
A person behind a camera has nothing to fear.
Because you know, there are so few people with phones in New York.
A group of people who shun technology. They live mainly in Pennsylvania.
Being it someone at the other end od a CCTV camera or an E/O in an elevator.
And a person at the other end of a camera is better than an E/O because he or she cannot be a victim.
You asked what Amish were.
The E/O can activate his alarm when he gets the chance.
Unless the E/O does not have a chance.
The operators maintain their "personal space" with barriers. Replace the operator with subway passengers (who don't care about personal space) and you could easily fit five of them, loosely packed, or more under crush conditions.
The next time you have to pass up an elevator because you can't fit, notice that the person who's taking up more space than anyone else on the elevator is just riding back and forth.
I'm all in favor of improved security. That means putting properly trained and equipped security guards in the appropriate places at the appropriate times. It doesn't mean putting random people in random places at random times.
What does the NYPD think of this plan? I know the NYPD didn't think NYCT's initial token booth closure proposal of 2001 raised any security concerns. Why not take the word of the experts?
As far as I know, NYCT does not use any security guards on trains or in stations. Its "protection agents" are used exclusively in yards and other non-public areas. The NYPD is solely responsible for train and station security.