How fast could they go (as in speed mph)?
How different was the ride from the R1/9's?
Were they noisier or quieter than the R1/9's?
Oops, I forgot to post it!! Here it is:
wayne
Apparently somebody got a deal on spreckled paint after the Navy rejected it as the new could for its ships ;-)
What navy would ever use speckled green paint for its ships, maybe the Irish Navy?
Seriously though I thought that the speckled green paint was the result of that so-called rebuilding which was really more of an emasculation of those great cars.
Larry, RedbirdR33
Say what!?!?!?!
Actually I don't mind her politics, I think she's doing a good job, but you have to admit, not much to look at. Braces would help 200%, if she ever runs for president I hope she sees an orthadontist. And those freckles, well...
:)
The IRT had once basic design which began with the Composites and ran right up through the Lo-V's. There were some modifications of course and there were two notible exceptions;the Deckroofs and the World's Fair cars. Make no mistake about it all the IRT cars were speedsters.
The Standards typified the BMT to anyone who rode them. They served nearly all the lines and gave good solid performance. They were somewhat slower than the IRT cars but very little short of a Force 10 Gale would stop them.
The R 1-9's of course were the IND standard-bearers and they were noisy but fast. They would never win a beauty pageant but gave good service throughout there lifetimes.
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The IRT design was coplied by the LIRR,Philly's Market Street cars and even London Transport. (The Q-23's I believe.)
The BMT design was copied by the Broad Street Standards and the SIRT MUE-1's.
I don't know if anyone copied the R 1-9 design.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
The IRT had once basic design which began with the Composites and ran right up through the Lo-V's. There were some modifications of course and there were two notible exceptions;the Deckroofs and the World's Fair cars. Make no mistake about it all the IRT cars were speedsters.
The Standards typified the BMT to anyone who rode them. They served nearly all the lines and gave good solid performance. They were somewhat slower than the IRT cars but very little short of a Force 10 Gale would stop them.
The R 1-9's of course were the IND standard-bearers and they were noisy but fast. They would never win a beauty pageant but gave good service throughout there lifetimes.
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The IRT design was coplied by the LIRR,Philly's Market Street cars and even London Transport. (The Q-23's I believe.)
The BMT design was copied by the Broad Street Standards and the SIRT MUE-1's.
I don't know if anyone copied the R 1-9 design.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
I saw a picture of a British Transportation museum with a picture of a subway car that looked like an R1-9 but was more rounded off. Perhaps some SubTalkers across the pond may know of this museum.
Bill "Newkirk"
There was a race of cars that ran on the Metropolitan line called F stock (of 1920 vintage) that were strange-looking with oval portholes in front and a roofline somewhat resembling the first group of BMT standards. They also featured the same forest of poles and vinylette seats, although they ran along the wall rather than in the Standards' family arrangement. No fans but very fancy lights inside.
wayne
The first electric trains on the District Line, around 1903-04, were particularly American-style because they came when the more or less bankrupt Metropolitan District Railway Company had just been taken over by American interests. These trains first ran on the then-new Ealing and South Harrow branch of the District (now the Acton Town to Rayners Lane section of the Piccadilly Line), which was the first part of the District's system to be electrified and was used as a test-bed for the new electric stock.
I remember the Fs, they were still around when my London railfanning days began in the mid-1950s. Heaven knows why the drivers were given *round* (well, oval to be strictly correct) windows to look out of!
LIRR engineers had round windows to look out of on MU's too:
CC: Several classes of London Surface Stock bore more than a passing resemblance to the IRT design. Classes B through F come to mind. The 1923 G Stock however did have a clerestory roof and flat ends which gave it somewhat of an IND look.
Larry,RedbirdR33
These were part of the George Gibbs/Dr. Lewis V. Stillwell cars.
The Boston "Cambridge" 0600s were first in 1912. Also don't forget the H&M "Black cars".
There was an excellant article in Electric Lines "The Making of a Standard" by Paul I. Cohen
How fast could they go (as in speed mph)?
50 Balancing, 55 Motor. Same as most "Redbird" equipment. They didn't accelerate as fast as recent equipment and "coast" orders were in force, so overall they seemed slower.
How different was the ride from the R1/9's?
More comfortable.
Were they noisier or quieter than the R1/9's?
Quitier, especially inside.
'splain, Lucy.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
The private companies took it to even more dizzying heights of analtude ... they issued COASTING keys and a METER in the cab. Shown to the left is a Coasting Clock Key, courtesy of The Joe Korner. Each motorman was issued a number stamp key. At the beginning of each trip he would insert the key into the coasting clock and turn it. It would imprint the key number on the power recorder tape. If on the trip, less power was used than the standard, the motorman would get a bonus in his paycheck. I believe these were used on both the BMT and IRT systems.
And as far as nostalgic metal plates along the way, I found it amusing when I *still* spotted T's along the steelwork - they'd promised those would be phased out in the early 70's and they're still out there. Heh.
Of course I realize sense of speed is subjective, but I rode SMEEs and older equipment on the same runs, and the top speeds seemed always comparable.
As to the power = balancing speed analogy, a Volkswagen Beetle and a Corvette will both reach 70, but the 'Vette will do it a lot faster...
A curiosity to me is that Standards seemed much more nimble performers than Triplexes, though the Triplexes developed about 40% more horsepower vs. only about a 10% increase in weight--it's one reason I think that the Triplexes were geared or wired differently, for whatever reason.
The Sansone book doesn't list the gear ratios for the AB or D
types. Maybe I can find that info elsewhere. If the R-9 is
10,000 pounds lighter than a Standard and has 35% more motor
HP, then it stands to reason that either it would beat the Standard
in acceleration, top end, or both.
accel proportional to H*G/W
bal speed proportional to H/(G*W)
where H is horsepower, G is the gear reduction, W is the weight.
Some move sway side-to-side on their truck bolsters (rocking), some left-and-right on their center points (nosing) or up-and-down end-to-end (galloping). Standards had a sort of pleasant oscillating motion which was not exactlly like any of the above. If you sat in the middle of the car and sighted out the front window on an outdoor right-of-way you could see it.
Speaking of storm doors, does anyone else remember riding on a BMT standard whose front storm door on the lead motor had a 2x6 jammed diagonally against the door handle to keep it shut? I saw that once or twice.
2 X 6 AKA "shoe paddle" or "shoe slipper"
Yes, I remember a few Standards with the old paddle stuck there preventing the storm door from flying open.
I also remember when boarding a Standard at a terminal awaiting for the train to leave and using my house key to move the storm window latch one notch at a time to fully open it. Some of those windows had their brass latches bent up with pliers to thwart opening and making railfans happy. I circumvented that many times !
Bill "Newkirk"
Yes, I recall that. A feature of the Standards was that the storm doors could be opened, closed and locked remotely, and sometimes the locking didn't quite stick on the end doors...
Don't you mean thundered?
Want to hear something funny? During the two years when I rode on the standards evry Saturday, I don't ever, ever remember seeing the conductor work one of the button consoles. By sheer coincidence I must have never been in the same car. He must have been in the second car on Brooklyn-bound trains while we were usually in the third or fourth car. Heading back to Manhattan, we always rode in the first car.
Some of the A units had working door controls, allowing them to be used for two-car trains on some shuttle runs. After the 1950s rebuild, some of the As were rebuilt as two-car sets, but I believe that none of these had working door controls.
Additional note -- the first Standards delivered in 1915 were equipped for a conductor in each car. Multiple unit door control came later.
-- Ed Sachs
When the B & BX three car sets were created, the door controls of the end cars were deactivated, but the door control panels were left in place. On three car sets the doors could only be opened from the panel in the center car.
Here is a typical six car train.
N2390-2391-2392-2414-4007-2415S.
In normal operation, when the train was going north, the T/O would be in 2390, and the C/R would operate all doors from 4007. When the train was going south, the T/O would be in 2415, and the C/R would operate all doors from 2391.
As far as I know, all A units (single cars) maintained active door controls for their entire service life.
-- Ed Sachs
On the Triplexes the conductor was between the 1st and 2nd units and controlled those two and the guard was between the 3rd and 4th and controlled those two.
The difference in the '50s in nomenclature between eastern and southern may have been that wood cars remained in mainline service there longer, so there was a differentiation of "woods" and "steels". Southern division also had Triplexes, and Eastern didn't.
Some of those shots were interesting.
And thank you for the compliment.
I also had my film camera handy, but the roll of film needed to be changed.
in this picture?
John
Geek, Nerd, Wacko, Escaped Inmate, Dolt, Hostage, Nutjob, Future Senator.
THAT insult was uncalled for!
I SAY NO MORE ON THIS.
>>>>>>>>AFTER READING YOUR POST, YOU ARE THE WORST FORM OF SWINE ON THIS EARTH
Sheet, I've been called worse. I figured that you would've said to me that my Mother was a hamster and my Father smelled like elderberries. You know, something with oomph. But that's ok, you'll get better in the insult department I'm sure.
>>>>>>>>>I TOOK THIS GROUP PHOTO BECAUSE I WANTED TO FOR THE FUN AND TO SHOW TO OTHER SUBTALKERS THAT WE HAD A GREAT TIME
Well heck, don't let ME stop you. Remember, I go on these MoD trips too and I was never a party pooper on those trips.
>>>>>>>>>YOU DEGRADED TO THE LOWEST FORM OF HUMANITY ON EARTH
You're absolutely right, and I apologize. I never should have called anyone a Future Senator. That was truly below the belt.
>>>>>>>>>YOU ALSO FORGOT THAT AT LEAST THREE (3) OF THE PEOPLE IN THE PAIR OF GROUP PHOTOS (INCLUDING THE PERSON WHO TOOK THE PICTURES WHO IS THE SAME PERSON TYPING THIS POST TO YOU) DID THE NOT-SO-IMPOSSIBLE OF SPENDING 34.5 HOURS VISITING ALL OPEN SUBWAY STATIONS WITHOUT LEAVING THE SYSTEM. WE SLEPT, BREATHED, LIVED, ATE, BRUSHED OUR TEETH, AND IN THE END, SMELLED THE SUBWAY SYSTEM AND WE ARE PROUD OF OUR EFFORTS
Well good for you. I have absolutely no idea as to how that's going to look on your résumé though.
>>>>>>>>>>DID YOU PERFORM THIS FEAT? NO; SO SHUT THE F*** UP
And I never will either. I dunno, usually when I think about doing something at 2 am, it ususlly has something to with either being in an amorous mode with one of the female persuasion, or waking up to take a pee. But hey, if subways are your thing, then more power to you.
>>>>>>>>>>THOSE PEOPLE WHO YOU SEE IN THE GROUP PHOTO ARE HUMAN BEINGS JUST LIKE YOU SO I THINK YOU SHOULD PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD FOR YOU COLD, CALLOUS, STUPID REMARKS
As the majority of you know, I always joke around on this board. So 99% of you already know that when I type things, it's always tongue in cheek. Never serious, unless it's a direct question or something within that realm.
So for any of you that were in the picture that possibly took it the wrong way, then I sincerely apologize.
Then again, Kool D never has had a sense of humor, so I pretty much expected this post from him before he even posted it. I mean, if someone can get all bent up out of shape over CC LOCAL mentioning that he passes gas..............
CC Local passes gas????
"Eeeeeewwww! STINKY!"
---from Scary Movie
No, I've never seen the movie, but I've seen the scene above many times in the commercials and the trailer, of which I have a copy.
Unlike you, I NEVER EVER TO ANYONE called their parents a bad name, NOT EVER. So I never think like you on that score because I honor my parents because it's the right thing to do. So if I respect my parents, so do I everyone else I meet and talk and NEVER call their parents by any derogatory names.
Well heck, don't let ME stop you. Remember, I go on these MoD trips too and I was never a party pooper on those trips.
And you have proven to RIPTA42HopeTunnel, BMTman, and Mr. T (Thurston) how much an asshole you are BEFORE I put my two cents on this matter.
You're absolutely right, and I apologize. I never should have called anyone a Future Senator. That was truly below the belt.
Congrats to you for admitting to this travesty.
Well good for you. I have absolutely no idea as to how that's going to look on your résumé though.
It's not for the resume, or to go on job interviews. It's something that some people have a lifelong dream of achieving that elusive goal and the NY Times Television department made this dream a reality. So how about some thanks to the people that organized the program we will be watching next week and the participants that did the 34.5 hour trip.
And I never will either. I dunno, usually when I think about doing something at 2 am, it ususlly has something to with either being in an amorous mode with one of the female persuasion, or waking up to take a pee. But hey, if subways are your thing, then more power to you.
IMO Being with a woman in an amorous mode is not a feat, it's something that is perfectly normal for me to (opps let's not go there).
As the majority of you know, I always joke around on this board. So 99% of you already know that when I type things, it's always tongue in cheek. Never serious, unless it's a direct question or something within that realm.
So for any of you that were in the picture that possibly took it the wrong way, then I sincerely apologize.
Then again, Kool D never has had a sense of humor, so I pretty much expected this post from him before he even posted it. I mean, if someone can get all bent up out of shape over CC LOCAL mentioning that he passes gas..............
I don't get bent out of shape when Sea Beach Fred makes fun of me, I know it's fun. As for the passing gas thing, that was a bit extreme and in bad taste but nobody's perfect in this world. I know a good joke from a bad joke and a bad joke from a really horrible, degrading joke, which is the latter since you degraded everyone in the picture.
You don't know the half of it. I think that BMTMan plucked a strand of my hair the last time that I met him so that he could go down to New Orleans and pay $10 for one of those voodoo spells.
Must've worked as I went 0 for 9 at Belmont last weekend.
>>>>>>>>>It's something that some people have a lifelong dream of achieving
In all seriousness, I admire anyone who has a lifelong dream and strives to attain it. You have no idea how many people I've met who have had dreams that they never attempted to attain. I believe that it is better to try and fail than to not try at all.
>>>>>>>>>I know a good joke from a bad joke and a bad joke from a really horrible, degrading joke, which is the latter since you degraded everyone in the picture
Actually, I've met a few of those persons in that photo, and they've met me. In fact, I spoke to R30 on the R9 trip (or is it R9 on the R30 trip.....or R2D2 on the Star Wars trip....). He's a good kid, one that I believe will make it a lot further than his dream position of a transit worker.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he made Superintendent and kept that copy of the SubTalk post in his coat pocket for the next time I want a drop.
Trust me, I'm not one of those faceless individuals who hides behind the guise of a computer.
Now as far as really horrible, degrading jokes go, you should see my bank account.
Just remember what you say before you post, especially when it comes to your fellow subtalkers. I did not post anything but when it comes to something as bad as what you post I wait until other people respond and when it comes to this, I take sides.
I admire your expectations of people you meet, just rememeber R30 (or anyone else for that matter) as an aspiring transit worker in the near future.
And that R2D2 joke was much better than the trash you posted yesterday. It doesn't have to be funny but it doesn't have to be trash either.
And let's end this garbage and move on in Subtalk.
I was on 3 of the 8 MOD trips this summer, WITH my name tag on, and I never met you :(
I'm terribly sorry about that. I guess our paths just crossed. Besides, I was only on the second R9 trip this time around as work prevented me from attending the others.
The next MoD trip that I go on, I will personally go out of my way to meet you.
My future earning potential would be reduced to the saying: "Alms for the poooor".
Oh, heavens no. I've gotten used to having teeth, and I would hate to have to stare at them without the use of a mirror.
That's already the case in New York.
Nah, BMTman's more a "Nutjob."
No, I found it obviously tongue-in-cheek, and one of the funniest things I've read on SubTalk in recent past.
Hmmm, tongue-in-cheek? Maybe. Funny? Maybe Degrading? Yes and it wouldn't be funny if it was degrading.
Specifically, that "future senator" was uncalled for.
Really? Think of all the "funny jokes" you've ever heard. Even money there are none that DON'T have somebody or something being degraded. Call it what you will. Human nature in its most "primative" state seeks to win out over the other ape standing there. To laugh about someone is one way to establish dominence over them.
Hey, don't get mad at me. I didn't do the programming...
CC Local passes gas????
Why's that so bad? I mean, hamsters are cute little critters and elderberries have a pleasing aroma ...
I can't wait to set foot on Stillwell when it opens next May.
Also forgot to mention that I thank Choo Choo for making this possible by allowing to bring the Triplex and the Steeplechase Cab to life for all Subtalkers to see these photos.
The comments are always welcome and I will try not to use flash during the underground photos. Thank you everyone for the advice, considering it was my first time using a digital camera.
-Stef
Subtalkers heard of it a couple years ago when a SEPTA Silverliner (Pioneer III, IIRC) was run into a barrier at speed to calculate injuries to crash test dummies.
Of course, Colorado's congressional delegation must have some kind of pull, since Pueblo got this, the U.S. Air Force Academy, and the federal government's publishing house.
Mark
The Colorado area is "US Capital-west" Most federal functions for the western US operate out of there.
Elias
so does
http://www.aar.com/ttci/index.htm
Transportation Technology Center, Inc., is one of two wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Association of American Railroads. Located in Pueblo, Colorado, TTCI is a world-class intermodal research and test center that offers a wide-range of capabilities that are used by freight and passenger railroads from around the world. For example, Amtrak's new high-speed Acela Express trains were extensively tested at TTCI before entering service. Japanese railroads used TTCI facilities to test a gauge changing mechanism. Work at TTCI helped make it possible for freight railroads in the U.S. and Canada to operate freight cars that weigh as much as 286,000 pounds when fully loaded.
TTCI focuses on programs that will enhance railroad safety, reliability and productivity. It also operates the world's foremost training center for emergency personnel responding to transportation accidents involving hazardous materials. There are 48 miles of test tracks located at the facility. The track is used for track structure and vehicle performance testing, life-cycle prediction and component reliability, damage prevention tests, freight ride quality and passenger comfort. The facility is owned by the Federal Railroad Administration but has been operated by TTCI - which is responsible for all of its operating costs - since 1984. TTCI is led by Roy A. Allen, President.
More recently the JetTrain prowled around there seemingly for like 2 years, starting back in late 2000. Bombardier PR people even went through the trouble of having the crews remove the catenary from a section of track so that people wouldn't think it required wires. I'm not sure how to think about that, do they really think that somebody would be so stupid as to think that a locomotive touted over and over again as 'Bringing all the benefits of the TGV without the catenary and about 40 mph slower' would make such a stupid mistake? Then again their primary target for JetTrain was Amtrak, so I guess it could be understandible.
Drexel's Library has like 3 or 4 books in the Transportation Engineering section, I don't know the numbers, just where they're at. It's funny that this whole thing with Pueblo started the evening after I had just hung out in the library reading up on some of the crazy schemes people had back in the 1970s, which Pueblo in tests. There were jet powered maglevs, LIM powered air cushion vehicles, and even a U-boat (the GE locomotive, for the Sub-foamers who wouldn't know an SD45-2 from a U28C out there) that ran at 122 mph. They're too long to scan completely and put on my FTP space, but I'll scan some of the pics and post links to them here.
That is, when I get on the library's good graces (read: take back outstanding books and pay fines :) )
--Mark
That was low.
Anyhow, I'd like to see the stuff you are talking about. We'll chat on the online about it.
BTW, the Boeing LRV was tested there.
Guess where buses are tested at? Hint-It's in the area whose congressman was chairman of the house surface transportation committe.
A guy and a gal end up riding through the entire system, and turned it into a short 14 min movie.
The acting ain't all that great, but you get to see work trains, Westchester Yard, Aqueduct Racetrack, screwy R142A announcements, and redbirds! And, you also get to hear an Andrew WK song! Do check out this movie.
You think the interrupted speaker would be PO'd at that!
(like on a previous post I did)
-R42's on the L
A very interesting film.
Peace,
ANDEE
I've seen lines to use MVM's that are longer than lines for the booth! That was the situation I was in one day when I wanted to get a 7-day unlimited. The best part, I walked away from the booth and the same people were still waiting!
At WHAT stations? As this is definitly an unusual happening.
Peace,
ANDEE
ONLY IDIOTS wait on line, IMO.
Peace,
ANDEE
CG
I wasn't intending the original post to be a complaint -- only an observation that there are good reasons why there might be lines at the MVM's that are longer than the line at the token booth. I phased token booths and ticket agents out of my life long ago.
CG
I once needed to buy a MetroCard at Penn Station, at the IRT end. The lines at the main booth and all of its associated MVM's were enormous. So I went upstairs to the uptown local mezzanine and there were no lines anywhere. (There are also rarely lines at the unsigned 32nd Street mezzanine.)
I don't understand. There are probably over 300 underused booths in the system (basically any booth not in midtown Manhattan) that have no lines at all, EVER (except maybe at the very very very peak of the rush hour), and you can buy your MetroCards from any of them! I never wait in a booth line at a place such as 34 St-Herald Square. When I'm ready to buy new MetroCards from a booth, I do it before my old card has run out. By giving myself some leeway, I'm able to stop and buy the MetroCards as soon as I see a booth with no line. There must be a booth along your commute that is underused. If all else fails, just stop at your normally busy booth, but during the off-hours.
From http://www.transitcenter.com/benefits/tc_ee/operators.htm
LOCAL BUS SERVICES ONLY:
MTA NYC Transit
From http://www.transitcenter.com/benefits/tc_ee/metrocards.htm
Unlimited Ride Cards give you additional savings because you can ride as much as you want on all MTA NYC Transit subway and local buses with the 7-Day ($21) and 30-Day ($70) Cards, depending on your purchase. In fact, the more you use your Card, the more you save.
Does that depend on method of payment? When I use my medical reimbursement account (pre-tax dollar program also) I can pay by credit card or check for a doctor visit or eyeglasses or whatever, and then I get a refund check in the mail from my Flex account administrator.
Does TransitChek work differently?
There are other employee benefit programs which operate similarly to the medical reimbursement account that you describe -- but the two are mutually exclusive and TransitChek is more popular.
Since the metrocard insurance appears to be triggered off of being able to match a MetroCard serial number to a credit card number used to purchase it, the TransitChek's won't be eligible for the insurance.
CG
Time to write to the Transit Authority!
CG
Your employer takes money out of your paycheck before taxes, and then gives it back to you in the form of either:
(1) paper TransitCheks, redeemable at many transit agencies, or
(2) special MetroCards with the TransitChek logo on them, or
(3) a combination of both (1) and (2)
I choose to get the paper cheks, so that if there is a cool regular issue MetroCard I want to get, I can get it from the booth.
In any event, a credit card never comes into play in the above, so no insurance.
As the MTA says, a MetroCard is like cash*. You loose it, your loss. And as TransitCenter says, the TransitChek is like cash, you loose it, your loss.
*Starting today, the insurance program, when applicable, changes this
I invite Subtalkers to contact the TA and your elected officials and back me up.
Anybody know how they go about doing that.
It is difficult to believe that all the turnstiles check back to a central database (let alone bus fareboxes doing the same). So I guess it is based on the distribution of some kind of revocation list.
But that would imply that there is still quite a window of opportunity for fraud.
I suppose they could minimise this by waiting to credit your account until they know that the revocation list has reached everywhere (probably overnight unless fareboxes can be updated using cellular technology or the like). Then basing the day count on the last actual transaction date rather than the report date.
We're not talking rocket science, and we're not talking about experimental stuff, and we're not talking about your radio at home. What I'm talking about is already in wide use in police car computers, the military, aircraft, etc. It's already production stuff. ATMs use similar technology. The fact that they communicate with the bank using cable doesn't mean you couldn't tap into them and screw around with that too.
The technology is already in commonplace use. Your objections are details which need to be addressed (and already have) but would have been more of a problem 25 years ago.
If they allowed refunds for cash cards with a receipt, what would prevent you from picking up a receipt next to an MVM, then walking into MTA HQ and telling them that you had lost your card. Since it was a cash purchase, they'd have to give you cash or the 30-n day card you described. Meanwhile some poor schmo someplace can't get into the system, doesn't know why -- and is out $70 bucks.
With the credit card purchase, they process the refund to the card used for purchase. This way whoever paid for the card is the one who gets the refund.
CG
The traffic commute? Hey, it could be worse
It's interesting to hear these results coming from a university known for its conservatism, in a state known for its preference of automobiles as the main mode of urban transit (Dallas DART being the notable exception.) If even Texas A&M is saying we need more transit, then we must really need more transit in a bad way.
Mark
This is the so called solution which I'm going to break down
1. "transit improvements"
Highly underfunded and states are cutting back on service. It's the best answer but will never happen and within 20 years, we will probably have about the same amount of public transportation or less.
2. "better traffic-signal operations"
Dream on. The motorists never wants to leave the car home and blames the "traffic-signal" as the problem. You can fix all the lights with cameras and computers but the bottom line stays the same. You can't move cars any faster once grid lock occures.
3. "aggressive incident-management programs"
This is a good one. How are you going to do this? Handing out massive tickets to speeding motorists? Jail time? Where's the money for highway officers and training programs going to come from? The highways have loads of aggressive motorists out there and they are not changing tomorrow.
4. "adjusted work hours"
I like this one. I'll just tell my boss to send me to work at 11:00 AM. I'm sure he'll agree. NOT!
5. "telecommuting"
This is even better. I'll just tell my boss I'll work at home. He'll agree in a second. NOT!
I can do a repost of it if y'all want a laugh.
Thanks
Jeff
Mark
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030930/80/e9rxt.html
Tuesday September 30, 04:46 AM
"Vasectomy delays Tube services
LONDON (Reuters) - London commuters, long used to train operators blaming delays on everything from leaves on the line to "slippery" rain, thought they had heard it all -- until a vasectomy stopped services.
Thousands of commuters were held up when a trainee driver on the London Underground fell out of his cab after fainting over fellow workers' descriptions of the vasectomy operation a colleague had undergone, newspapers reported on Tuesday.
The trainee, who was taken to hospital with head and chest injuries, had unsuccessfully asked his fellow workers to stop talking about the vasectomy, the Daily Express said.
"The details were just too graphic and evidently too much for the young trainee to take," the newspaper quoted a London Underground source as saying. The incident occurred last Thursday. "
Mark
Did anyone else get this?
Geez, he faints during a talk of a vasectomy. Imagine what he would've done during their equivalent of a 12-9? Or when a passenger on board is stabbed or seriously injured as a result of a crime.
That freakin' wimp.
http://www.straphangers.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=004457
Straphanger
Member # 1429
Member Rated:
posted 09-30-2003 07:35 PM
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That R143 4 car set sitting at West 4th has a hidden surprise for all us railfans! On the inside of the cars, there are new LCD screen type stripmaps, either 2 or 4 per car. These screens are multi-colored (red, green, white, and yellow i think) on a blak background. Also, they have the screens configured in two different ways (2 cars per). The first somewhat closely resembles the current stripmaps, digitally of course; The second lists the next 10 or 12 stops in list form, each stop telling how many stops away it is. At first, I thought that this was just some sort of paper sign mockup, but looking at it a little more closely, I reaized that it was an LCD screen. I never would have noticed these had I not been showing a friend a "subway car he had never seen before!" He had his camera and took pics of each of the two types. If you want them, email me and I'll send you them once he emails them to me. Also, there seemed to be quite a few people looking into these cars, though I don't think manyof them realized the new maps (most probably didn't care either!)
Robert
American Express, tennis any one ?
Understand that something came out again here ... this would be the third year. I haven't seen any cards ... does anyone know if it was four cards again with cloned holders ?
Also the two newest Satelty Cards are "Avoid feeling isolated and alone" and "Don't lean on the doors", this one has two different Exp. date printed on them, one 10/31/04 the otheer 11/30/04. I don't know if this matter to you and a varation of the cards. "Watch the gap" is about a mouth or so old.
Robert
Robert
Robert
The above was part of my post a number of days ago to which there were no replys.
Yesterday a fellow collector traded me two of this year's holders:
One looks like it could be Yannik Noah and says, "The official card of the model sportsman". The other looks like Lindsey Davenport and says, "The official card of serving notice". I would bet the there are others out there featuring the William's sisters.
Mark
Thanks for the airtimes, I missed that post, assuming we haven't gotten our cable cut off by then, I'll try to watch and record it!
1SF9
It's not a TEASE... it's a PROMO, momo.
A TEASE is when they feed you the "Next time on...." at the END of an episode.
A PROMO is for BEFORE it's premiered.
Vato
Whenever Ali's program repeats itself, it takes along the SAME order of
commercial ads..... including ours!
(that's the same place I've seen it CONSISTENTLY).
Good luck, fishermen!
Peace,
ANDEE
: )
Elias
(Smith 9th) This station is the highest elevated station in the system, at 80 feet (measurement within 10 feet).
Yes Yes Yes, but the line goes UPHILL into the tunnel, and while it is in a very deep tunnel by the time that it gets to 157th or 168th Streets, it is surely at a HIGHER elevation than 125th Street, probably a much higher elevation that Smith-9th.
Besides if you were to ask what is the HIGHEST station on the system, you then must qualify *what-part-of-the-station* Certainly the Entry Stairways to these stations are much higher than the tracks...
So... The BROADWAY LINE has the HIGHEST stations on the system!
: )
Elias
Smith/9 St wins whichever way you look at it.
Peace,
ANDEE
I thought the book was overpriced, at $ 35.00, and my only other complaint about it is the images in it, unidentified as to date and location. I realize, however, that such information is not always available.
--Mark
Hold anything bearing the MTA logo up to a mirror. That'll show you what the MTA thinks you are. :-)
The subject of BMT subway cars, as fascinating as it might be for you and me, does not make it a mass market item. Best sellers by Hillary Clinton and Ann Coulter may go for $25.00. Six months later they're in the clearance bin for $2.99, and the publisher has still reaped a profit.
Now you're on. If you spent time doing academic research on a subway subject and collected a set of rare photographs to illustrate same, and found a publisher willing to take a chance on your project with the expectation of selling maybe 1,000 copies, what would be a fair price for your book? What is your time worth?
What do you think would be a fair price for such a book ? How much do you think your time is worth ? Yes, you asked me first, but I need time to think.
I, too, have learned to buy books on first sight, if they interest me, and if the price is within reason. This, as opposed to procrastinating, only to find the book gone later on. For too long, I was in the habit of not owning copies of books that meant a great deal to me personally. For example, I first read "The Lost Weekend" in April 1975, but did not own a copy until only a year ago.
The economic realities of the publishing business have led some authors to publish limited editions of their work at their own expense, to avoid having to "pitch" to publishers, concern about profit margins, sales, promotions, etc. Or has the internet or world wide web made this a thing of the past ?
One would think (or hope) that books of vintage railroad, subway and el photographs, valuable as references, would be better bound to withstand the wear and tear of frequent use for reference.
If that really is the case, a more appropriate name would be "Imperfect Binding".
Also yesterday after coming [downtown] from 23/6, I saw R-143 #8202 and its 3 mates (whatever those are) at West 4th Street on the southbound express track. Anyone know what that was about?
Alabama Av sees quite a few passengers (and employees) during the day, thus the reason to make it an all stop station.
You mean "speaking of Alabava Amenue," right?
Also note that trains seemed to arrive peculiarly often. I was on an M that was trailing a Z until Marcy, a J caught up with us at Myrtle and left first, and as soon as it pulled off the Z rounded the corner at Hewes, and before it even got to the station [Myrtle] here comes another J behind it! Did they suddenly increase frequency of service on the J/M/Z lines?
Ten miles or more are taken out of service, but you seldom if ever see anybody working, yet the project is always done before the frost sets in.
Why is this? Highways at least are done in one long ribbon, so first they dig out the old stuff and then they spend lots of time preparing the subsurface, and then grading and laying it out just so, and then as if by magic, the machine passes over it and it is fully paved.
And so looking out your window, you see each slice of work as it comes by, but you never see them all working at once.
Elias
Robert
In R143's, cars that have numbers X and X-3 are the "A" cars, and those that have X-1 and X-2 are the "B" cars.
For Example:
XNumberA/BX8104AX-18103BX-28102BX-38101A
Redbirds to Stand-by, effective with this morning's rush.
October 1, 2003.
From now on, you might see 'em or you might not.
Regards,
George Chiasson Jr.
(Widecab5@aol.com)
Derailments in yards happen. And they happen fairly frequently. I ended my own TA career with one, and in the year that I worked out of CIY, I saw 25 derailments and collisions. Some of them rather spectacular. Derailments only make the papers when they occur on REVENUE track and there's injuries. I *can* say that the derailment on the 7 line WAS a set of redbirds, but I'm not at liberty to provide ANY details. Follow the thread back, and if you read between the lines, there's enough to guess at what happened.
The TA gag order, along with WILD speculation here as de rigeur, seems to cause this all to be a lot bigger than it really was. Subtalk is a fun place to fling poo, but aside from the MAIN site which actually DOES have information that is checked and doublechecked, subtalk has little in the way of actual fact. I still love it just the same, but then I come here to have fun and don't take what I read very seriously. Before the childish silliness took root, you could actually GET real information here ...
Don't feel bad though - there's plenty of us kibbitzers here. And when I fling poo, I always put one of these at the end ----> :)
Any info on that Selly?
You mean Flushing Meadows-Corona Park?
--Mark
#3 West End Jeff
I'm sure they only got the death penalties because of the damage to them. With Corona getting rid of tehe Redbirds and an expected Scrap Trip coming up, they weren't willing to repair the cars.
I wouldn't have bothered fixing them either. I'm sure there's a few sets out there that are still operable, but my bet is that they were among the first to go swimming rather than the last. But those cars that Greenberger shot are NOT roadworthy and shouldn't even be laid up. It's a shame, but they're shot. Pure and simple.
Wonder if the housetop on the switch was cause or effect? :)
After THAT ride, I wouldn't go near a redbird again. And I'm an experienced motorman, I know what cosmetic issues may look bad but aren't a hazard - this train SCARED me. Scared my buddy too. And this wreck DID get transferred to the 7. :(
Nothing was transferred to the 7 except 62As.
What you rode on the 4 was an R-33, and it was never moved to the 7.
Yup, they were saying that Monday afternoon, as well as the lead on the whole was in bad shape (before incident). Rotten wood everywhere.
Yeah you're right, got my crap mixed up. I was in the tower and initially the T/D said they were going to 207 until the T/O who reported insisted that they were not going to 207. Now I remember. Sorry guys.
OR...
Store the R36's at Yard A at Sunnyside. When it's time for them to run, put a small ramp connecting the LIRR with the 7 outside the Hunterspoint Av portal.
When it's time for them to run, put a small ramp connecting the LIRR with the 7 outside the Hunterspoint Av portal. Wow like it is that easy for them to build a ramp. Even though that would be an ideal space to hold train if the TA wanted increase cars on the #7.
#3 West End Jeff
You have got to stop scaring these folks. Your info is not for the weak of heart!
-Stef
SharpFerry
(Souldn't have said it quite that way since I love da boids, but good poetry won out over good taste.)
: ) Elias
Farewell and Thanks fo the memories
The Redbirds are 40+ years old, went through the deferred maintenance of the 1970's, and were not robust as the Low-V's.
If it wasn't for Bondo, the fans riding the "last gasp" would be on R62's.
Probably 30 years or longer.
Peace,
ANDEE
Are you sure of that? I believe there was such an entrance when the station was built, but it didn't last long.
Peace,
ANDEE
If you REALLY want to know, how about going to the NYPL and doing a computerized search of the NY Times archives for articles related to W 4th Street and IND. Then tell us.
I'd be interested in the answer, but not enough to spend the time on it.
The stairs went down to the mezza-mezzanine and there was fare control in there.
I do not accept the new names. in 20 years, I'll be an icon to the past, as my dad was when he constantly referred to the J train as the "BMT" Jamaica line and never stopped using double letters when referring to the G, C and R lines.
Good Photo Op while they're still there!
When I'm on the 'J' Line: "Broadway Junction -- Eastern Parkway".
When I'm on the 'L' Line: "Broadway Junction".
In this way the new name is incorporated into the announcement, and yet 'ol timers will also get the original station names so that they don't get 'left out'.
wayne
One would THINK that with all the renovations going on around there, they would've EXPANDED that connection so it doesn't look like 53/Lex in the morning rush hour...JMO.
Incidentally, IIRC, the park was built at about the same time as the IND construction at East New York. The building of that park may have been part of the 'deal' with the construction of ENY station. I have to go look at Fred Kramer's book on the building of the IND to check up on this...more to come (no doubt).
The street is narrow, but the sidewalks are generally pretty wide. Generally a lane of traffic is about as wide as a subway track, I think, so two lanes plus two parking lanes should be about enough for a four-track line that uses the sidewalk space for platforms.
Thats pretty cool. Was it built by cut and cover?
Yes. Very little of the IND system is bored tunnels, and the Fulton Street line is quite close to the street.
It must have been interesting to build a cut-and-cover line under an active el...
They probably built some of it underneath the sidewalk as well, as the sidewalk looks a little bit wider than it usually would.
Many of the lower Manhattan lines run under narrow streets. The two 2/3 stations under William have ultra-narrow island platforms, and Fulton J/M/Z is so narrow that the tracks and platforms are stacked.
Incidentally, this should put to rest the theory that the (upper) Lex line is on two levels because Lex is too narrow for four tracks side-by-side. If you look at the planning documents on this site, you'll see that the local tracks rise and fall with the terrain, but the express tracks avoid most of the climbs and drops since they don't have to worry about many stations. (They'd avoid even more if there were no station at 86th, but that would have left an overly long express run.)
IIRC, there is a recording of a symphony from Carnegie Hall somewhere out there in which BMT Standards can plainly be heard passing by.
Review of film here:
http://www.digitallyobsessed.com/showreview.php3?ID=1410
Besides, the TA was offering the cars free, at one time (but you had to pay to transport them off TA property - there's the catch.
If you can mention ONE law they are violating, then I won't consider this post to be the insane ramblings of someone losing his favorite toy.
Not bad for 47 years of age? If you dont know it was from an R-21.
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=465677
My Dad has #7659 AND #7687 (both from R22 cars) up on his shop wall, along with a curtain roll from some poor old R-4. Did you get the MkII R44 plaque from the NYCT museum? I saw a few of them there a couple of years ago.
wayne
I really want one of the old station plaques from Howard Beach and one of the signs that disappeared from Chambers/WTC, but I doubt I'll ever come across any.
wayne
wayne
wayne
Original plate-- the 9 has the "lowercase g" bottom (not a slanted 9)
Now I can't stand 3/4 of their daily playlist.
If you are gonna buy a Redbird numberplate, be sure to wash your hands afterwards. They are quite dusty, especially on the back.
The numberplate I have now also has an embedded Redbird paint chip. Heh.
There should be like 10-15 Redbird numberplates left along with plenty of R44 pre-GOH plates. R36WF 9658 (I believe) has four numberplates. A majority of them are from the 36WFs, and I think I only saw like 2 or 3 numberplates from the Mainlines.
::sigh::
That number plate stack is the FIRST thing I touch on each visit.
Most transit agencies shut down the trains at night, replacing them with special night buses. New York keeps the subways running, but with infrequent service (every 20 minutues) and shuttles; meanwhile buses are virtually shut down, with most routes running every 30 or even 60 minutes. The trains are full, the buses empty, according to those who ride then.
I had suggested running a special "inner" subway network with very frequent service -- once every three minutes. It would be the IRT as far as Atlantic Avenue 4/5 and Grand Army Plaza 2/3 in Brooklyn, the Hub at 149th (2/3) or Yankee Stadium (4/5) in the Bronx, and Queensboro (7) in Queens. These terminals, and 96th in Broadway on the West Side, would be major transfer points. From there special night buses running every five or six minutes would carry people to the rest of the city.
Among the advantages are more safety for workers during maintenance and less crime/vandalism in the subways overnight, since people would be concentrated in a smaller number of lines, stations, and transfer points and would not be isolated.
How about cost and service?
As it happens, the B68 and B75 bus, combined, run a route similar to Brooklyn's "F" train as far as Downtown Brooklyn. During rush hours, the F takes 28 minutes to get from Kings Highway to Jay Street. The B68 takes 26 minutes to go from Kings Highway to Bartel Prichard Square, and the B75 takes 28 minutes to go from there to Livingston and Jay. That's 54 minutes, almost twice as long. But AFTER MIDNIGHT, the F takes 24 minutes to make the trip, but the buses take 32, just eight minutes longer! True, that is without having to pick up and drop off many passengers, but it is also without the buses having traffic signal over-ride, something that could be implemented in the overnight hours. More frequent service, and no time climbing to the street in an abandoned station, would easily override a modest increase in travel time.
And cost. I hope that all 15 stations are manned all night by 15 employees. Assume 2.5 trains on the right of way from Jay to Kings Highway; that's five crew. So 20 people are required to run the F train on that length of track overnight.
You'd need just 13 bus drivers to run one bus every five minutes on that route. Add a dispatcher, two guys going up and down the line inspecting the stations to prevent vandalism, and one guy at the transfer station directing and protecting passengers, (all of whom could also be working on the stretch of track from Kings to Stillwell too) and that's just 16. You save four. Plus any MOW workers saved because most of the work would take place in a closed ROW, except an in spection car going back and forth.
I live in the outer boroughs. And what I wrote is is that at rush hour a bus takes twice as long to cover the same distance as a train. With the train running every four minutes and full, it would take hundreds of buses to move that many people.
On the other hand, in the middle of the night the buses take about the same time as the train, and with one train every 20 minutes, it would take fewer buses to replace the train, with more frequent service.
I think there is a differnce between suface traffic conditions and transit ridership at 2 a.m. and 2 p.m. Therefore I do not agree with your point above.
(Subways for Manhattan and screw the outer boroughs.)
I live in the outer boroughs. And what prompted this is that if I were riding in the middle of the night I'd be happier with the service as I described it than with what we have now. I'd also be more likely to allow my children, when the are in their late teens, to take transit home if they are in Manhattan at midnight. They'd get on a crowded train after waiting, at most, three minutes, get off with hundreds of other people at a place where hundreds were waiting to transfer, get on a bus after waiting at most five minutes, and ride to within a couple of blocks from my house (right next to the subway stop, but on the surface rather than underground). As it is, I think I'd have to get in my car and go pick them up.
If you prohibit your children from riding around the subway at night now when they are younger, you are a good parent. If you prohibit them from doing so in their late teens, you are a fascist.
Spoken like a late teen. Six weeks ago I might have agreed with you. The brutal attack of two young women who had exited the subway in the past two months on my own subway line, one around the corner from my own house, both coming home from jobs at 2 am and 4 am, gives me pause. No it isn't significant in a statistical sense, but in any low odds situation once can be dismissed as an anectdote while twice could be interpreted as a significant increase in the odds from a low base. Perhaps bringing up the owl-bus idea again is an over-reaction, but this hits a little close to home.
Does it appear to be the same attacker? If so, he'll surely get careless and will be caught, hopefully before he strikes too many more times.
Very young children should not ride the subway or bus on their own anyway.
You would have a point about service frequency and time (for example, if the A train makes all local stops, you'd have a hell of a long ride from Washington Heights to the Rockaways).
It strikes me that operating personnel wouldn't get done parking the trains till 2:00, and by 5:00 the next shift would have to be back at the yards.
Also, part of the way NYCT staffs the morning rush, according to other posters, is to have shifts that run from 1 AM till 9 Am or 2 till 10. Are you proposing multi-trained staff who can both drive a bus and then operate a subway in the morning rush? If not, you'll have more T/Os who aren't needed for a full shift.
That could be a problem. If it weren't for the vandals, they could be left along the ROW and pick up where they left off, but I suppose the "artists" could break in and ruin them.
After a rail is replaced, at least two trains must pass over the section before it is released by the crew, and more if the rail needs to pe polished and make a good shunt.
Rail In: 2:30am, Next train: 5am, sit back and relax!
Some departments don't work from central locations where truck(s) can originate from.
Are you talking about speeders for "inspection cars" where would these be based when not in use? Plus speeders don't shunt and need to operate under track warrants.
When would the maintenace get done on the line with 20TPH all night? Pulling a rail or changing lock rods would delay 7 trains instead of 1 or none. -And don't say service diversion! If you cut 90% of the service, no one will stand for GO's at that point.
When a signal trouble arises during the overnight hours, it is usually dealt with before rush hours. But with no service at night, the trouble is not discovered until everyone is late for work.
People rely on the trains _because_ they never shut down, it there was a cutoff, you're going to see ridershop drop off, whithout a complimentary increase in "owl" bus usage.
One of the hugest problems on every OTHER transit property is that people can't rely on it to get them home of they stay out late. It means that they are much less likely to ride it into the city in the first place. Remember that almost all of the rideship increase on NYCT has taken place in the off hours.
When would the first and last trains run? Running the last train before most bars close is a bit irresponsible, but I'm sure cabs and car services would love it. When would the first train run? You can bet anyone who needs to be at work before then is gonna scream discrimination.
The subway is a great class equalizer in NYC in part because of its omnipresence. Take away that, and the individuals on "owl" busses will harbor resentment since they can't "ride the subway like everyone else"
If there is an upsurge in station crime, then the program of the "designated waiting area" should be pushed back into usage, and there should be a station agent observing all of the waiting areas. The annunciators are still in place and working, but few people use them anymore. Don't cut station agents.
For 29 years, I lived at E.3 St and Ave N - two blocks from the F line and eight from Coney Island Ave and the B68. Under your plan, I would need to cross a miniature highway (Ocean Parkway has eight lanes of traffic plus a left turn lane) as well as CIA itself (another four) to wait for a bus to transfer to another bus to transfer to a train (oops, that's one transfer too many already and I haven't even arrived where I'm going). So far I've added another eight minutes (walking) on top of your eight minutes, put myself in danger twice crossing busy streets, paid an extra fare, all so transit could save some money. It ain't gonna work.
I'm also not convinced that this would lead to a savings on operations. After all, there is a big differential between bus and subway operating costs on a per mile basis, according to the TA's published data. You are proposing to increase both subway and bus revenue miles. It does seem to be counter intuitive to trying to save costs.
It's your proposal, I'd expect an economist to come up with some hard figures for the savings. Might I suggest that we use the demand and cost figures in the abovementioned links?
The idea is to reduce the number of trucks rolling through local Astoria streets.
Car drivers shouldn't care - they should be riding the N train anyway...
I'm not sure I'd consider an expressway service road a "residential street." The R6/C2-2 zoning along Hoyt Avenue/Astoria Boulevard doesn't exactly convey quiet and bucolic, either.
Car drivers shouldn't care - they should be riding the N train anyway...
The N train doesn't go to the Bronx.
"The N train doesn't go to the Bronx."
I know. I just wanted to put an on-topic sentence into the post. :0)
Oh... in that case, truck drivers shouldn't care, either, since their cargo should be going over the Hell Gate Bridge :^)
That's the amazing thing here. This has been talked about almost as long as the Second Avenue Subway, with report after report released, but no one actually did anything until Bloomberg came along. Heck the EISs, the MISs, the public hearings with people shouting "no," why go through that. Yet it appears that under Bloomberg the city is just going to go ahead and do it. How could he do it? Maybe the fact that he is calling it a "test," and if the test is successful what political actor is going to demand putting trucks back on the local roads until all the procedures are followed?
One issue is the bridges -- there are some that aren't 14'4," and I don't recall seeing them get raised, thought I don't drive that often, especially over THAT route.
Why not extend it?
I like it, by the way. I'd do it.
What route was the LGA extension on? An extension to the Bronx would need 2 blocks of new El on 31st St before the only NIMBYs would be fish. I suspect a LGA El would have been somewhat more disruptive (curves etc).
What route was the LGA extension on? An extension to the Bronx would need 2 blocks of new El on 31st St before the only NIMBYs would be fish. I suspect a LGA El would have been somewhat more disruptive (curves etc)."
Actually, the NIMBYs against the N extension to LAG were in fact those living, or with businesses, on that 2-block stretch of 31st St.
From Steve Anderson's New York Roads And Crossings
Whitestone Expressway (Parkway)
http://www.nycroads.com/roads/whitestone
Whitestone Bridge
http://www.nycroads.com/crossings/bronx-whitestone
Hutchinson River Parkway/Expressway http://www.nycroads.com/roads/hutchinson/
From Steve Anderson's NYC Roads
http://www.nycroads.com/roads/grand-central/
http://www.nycroads.com/roads/brooklyn-queens/
Here is what one driver said from the story:
“I don't think it's good for the Grand Central,” said resident Glenda Tanner. “We have enough traffic on the Grand Central without the trucks.”
She is totally clueless. The BQE exit is ONE exit away. Most traffic on the GCP (in that area) is between the EASTERN Wye of the BQE and the Northern Blvd/Whitestone Expwy Exit.
: ) Elias
Only one of the estimated 200 signs like that in the entire subway system, an error.
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Hey I live in chinatown, and thats not far from the picture location. And I think perhaps someone who have nothing better to do in their life came to that location with blue paint in the middle of the night and scheme that thing out in attempt to drive everyone on that area to a nut bin.
Chinatown is "not far" from 86th Street and Central Park West? If that's the case, you must live "inches" from Columbus Circle! Or "millimeters" from Times Square!
In other words, for those not familiar with New York City, Chinatown is nowhere near where that photo was taken.
Maybe originally, but the sign's recent reappearance may have been the work of a true subway connoisseur...
AHA, then somebody who knew about the error peeled away the orange (B) bullet.
Bill "Newkirk"
Isn't that what a timetable (obtainable fromt the clerk) is for? They felt the time had to be on the signs as well? Why not have the S/As hold the customers' hands as they walk down the stairs as well, so that the customer doesn't have to think about how to walk.
No, orange A.
A blue
K blue
C blue
H blue
S blue (new setting)
E blue
F orange
V orange
G sea green
R yellow
S yellow
W circle-yellow
N yellow
Q diamond-yellow
Q circle-yellow
B orange
D orange
Q circle-orange
S orange
S grey
L grey
J brown
M brown
Z circle-brown
Not In Service
Special
Shuttle
Removed are the yellow B/D, the sky blue JFK Express and the brown diamond R.
Some R46s had a blue S at least 2 years ago.
The K is still there... maybe there's still some future for it. Last I knew the side signs had a K to lefferts, but that was before the recent reprogramming.
The R46's were the first to get them. They've only been installed within the past year though.
Then we're not talking about the same units.
I don't know how many had them (I didn't play with the signs much being in the C/Rs position), but I can tell you the sign I saw the blue S on had no H and had the cyan JFK.
And this wasn't in the past year because I haven't been C/R in over a year.
wayne
B 145St-Brighton Beach via CPW Lcl,8Av Lcl,Brighton Exp.
:-)
-Stef
Peace,
ANDEE
OK, where is this? Yard A?
BTW, see the low level LIC station platform for the LIC-Lower Montack service in the above photo!
There's a movie theatre in Kew Gardens that's built right over the LIRR station, but I do not believe that there was ever a direct entrance.
The O'Hare terminus obviously exits directly into the O'Hare buildings. I wouldn't say the Midway terminal has a direct exit because it's about 1/4 mile of walking through a parking garage to get to the counters.
The State/Washington stop on the Red Line subway has an exit directly into Marshall Fields, and into Chicago's Pedway, which has entrances into a number of other buildings, but I won't count them becuase the pedway is basically just an underground sidewalk, not an entrance per se.
The Blue Line's Clark/Lake stop has direct entrances into the Thompson Center government building to the south and the building north of the station.
The Merchandise Mart station on the Brown/Purple Lines also has an entrance/exit directly into the building.
The Red Line Loyola stop has an exit directly into a McDonalds.
I think that the Roosevelt Red/Green/Orange Line stations may have an entrance/exit into a new building being built between them, but I'm not certain - I know they added a connecting tunnel, but they may not have opened an entrance from the project itself.
I also worked at WTC, but we know abouth that one.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
First, regarding the D-type Triplex units, Greller says that two of the four prototypes (6000-6003) had WH 579P1 motors and two had GE 282 motors (p65). Which type of motor did production units have?
Second, Greller says that the Budd-built "Zephyr" had eddy current brakes instead of dynamic brakes (p103). I've heard of eddy current braking, but I have absolutely no idea how it works. Help? Jeff, are you there? :-)
Frank Hicks
Eddy current braking was used on the GE-equipped Multi-Section
units as well as the experimental Zephyr.
The basic principle of operation is that if one takes a disk
of conductive material and rotates it through a magnetic field
passing perpendicular to the plane of the disk, and electric
current will flow in the disk. Imagine that the disk is a
many-spoked wheel, with each spoke a closed loop of wire. As
each spoke comes under the field, clearly the magnetic flux
in that loop of wire increases rapidly from 0 to full. This
induces a voltage in the loop, and a current flows which is that
voltage divided by the very low resistance of the closed loop of
wire. This same process happens in reverse as the loop exits
the field.
So, as the disk rotates through the field, circular "eddy" currents
flow in the surface of the disk. This slows down the disk.
The circulating currents (at least the radial inward and outward
components) react with the magnetic field to produce a retarding
torque, the same way that current flowing in the armature conductors
of a DC motor reacts with the field. The kinetic energy is
converted into heat, i.e. I^2R losses.
A modification of this principle, using alternating current, is
what makes the AC Vane Relay work (Dave B are you listening?)
As applied to traction, eddy current braking was a pet project of
GE in the 1930s. The disk was mounted on the traction motor
shaft in an extension housing. There were various schemes to
create the field. One method was to use trolley voltage with a
variable dropping resistor, which had obvious problems if the
power failed. I believe the Multis used the traction motors
as generators with the fields excited by battery voltage in
series with a regulating resistor, but I've never had a chance
to look over the prints on those cars so I don't know for sure.
The primary advantage of eddy current braking was that it was
easier to regulate than dynamics. In dynamic braking, the two
motors or motor groups are connected together with a variable
load resistance in the middle, forming a figure-8. This
configuration is self-exciting and somewhat difficult to control.
That's why most PCCs and many of the older rapid transit cars
(before electronic control systems took over) have rough
dynamic brakes.
Frank Hicks
The MS had a very complicated braking system, schedule "AMCE",
where the "C" referred to a "C" control valve. I can't even
begin to describe how Byzantine this thing was...with straight
air being sent within the 5-car unit, automatic air (reduction
system) used between the units with the straight-air signal
re-derived at each unit, plus an electropneumatic overlay, and
an attempt to achieve closed-loop control of brake rate using
an accelerometer! The loss-of-brake symptoms reported in
the railfan literature generally involved complete loss,
including emergency braking, which would not have been attributable
to the dynamic or eddy current braking systems.
One way from TSQ to MSF via Express: 26 mins.
One way from MSF to TSQ via Local: 33 mins.
The express takes 28 minutes and 45 seconds.
Expresses don't save nearly as much time as they seem.
You're confusing the J and the 7.
Any idea what is the half way point?
Kind of a strange station, the entrance from Cherry lane reminds me of some of those Queens stations. And the last picture looks like an entranceway to an abandoned platform that may have extended further west from the previous one
"Im so close to the LIRR now everytime an express train passes I feel it shaking the ground. Now thats what I call a railfan palace!"
--Mark
569 No Data
This Web page could not be opened with the specified browser request. Please try again later.
--Mark
//nyctmc.org/Xview_still.asp
Mark
QBPlaza
Mark
//nyctmc.org/Xview_still.asp
Create a new text file and type the following text into it:
(the train continues into the tunnel)
<html>
<iframe width="100%" height="500" src="http://nyctmc.org/Xview_still.asp?cam_id=54&server=RS2&address=Queens+Plaza+N+%40+Queens+Boro+Bridge"></iframe>
</html>
(Another train leaves the tunnel and enters the station)
Save the file on the desktop.
Rename the file to something like, "desktop.html." The extension must be either htm or html.
Then, right-click on the desktop itself and then select "Properties."
In the dialog box that appears, select the "Desktop" tab. Then, click "browse."
(a train of R40 slants enters the station from the tunnel)
Select "Desktop" in the "Look in:" box, and select "desktop.html" (or whatever the name of the HTML file was. Click "Open" then click "OK" and enjoy!
Any machine running Windows 98 or higher can follow this procedure.
(A train of R40 mods leaves for Manhattan.)
Enjoy!
It's an honest enough question, that really did not require an inquiry to the MTA, after all, there was a good possibility that someone here might have known what had happend, and it might have made in interesting topic for conversation.
But now well never know, I guess.
Elias
It sure must have moved pretty fast when it moved at all.
Actually, the last time I looked, Times Square was on 7th Avenue.
: ) Elias
Very! That happened one nite I was heading to 71st Continental on a a R train. It sat for 10 mins at each station (63rd Dr & 67th Ave)from Woodhaven Blvd (where I had gotten on the train)to 71st. Two F trains and two E trains had passed I was angry for the rest of the night.
Its happened another time when the E and F were running local one weekend. Also, it seems that alot of F trains late at night get held at 169th street alot for about 10 mins before getting a Green signal(to 179th st). On several occasions I had to cut the BS and run upstairs so I wouldn't miss my bus!
It's that sort of thing that has soured me on taking the subway to Jamaica Center and then taking a bus from there, even though it's cheaper. I'm now more inclined to take the railroad from Penn Station, even if I have to walk a bit further to get to the railroad. Even if I have to wait around, at least Penn is climate-controlled. I've about had my fill of standing around Jamaica in swealtering heat or freezing cold for half an hour waiting for a bus.
The railroad is much better, but using my metrocard keeps my transportation expenses static. Transferring to a bus especially at night does have its disadvantages. Sometimes I look at the buildings along Hillside (when waiting late at night) and think "it must be so convenient living there" They can walk to the train, and its a 30 min ride to midtown.
Besides more people will appreciate such a beautiful station as the original City Hall station. OTOH one person may panic as to why the 4, 5, and 6 train will by bypass BB/CH if they have to get off and transfer to the J train and chaos ensures.
They can't cross over south of Wall Street?
There is no prohibition that I know of about carrying mobile phones on duty. We are forbidden from engaging in any activity that would distract us from our operation. This would include using a mobile while engaged in operating duties.
I have often used my mobile phone to communicate with towers, where it is possible, to request a correct route or to ask for instructions.
Michael
Thanks for the response. But why do you need your mobile to communicate with the tower when you have the radio? I have a thought on this, but would rather hear your answer.
Paul
Sometimes a tower like KHwy F will tune into B2 becasue of a problem and forget to tune back to B1 or turn down the volume on their radio. Sometime the tower has a problem and does not want control to know they have a bad railroad.
And LOTS of times the batteries stink and die on you. You can often send a few feet when you do a radio check and can receive fine ut when you try to send the next time no juice.
One time, I called Control Center to report a malfunctioning red signal that wouldn't clear on the structure (aka the El), which is something that must be reported to Control. The Console Dispatcher even joked that a Cell Phone has practically become part of the equipment needed to work down here.
I was on the A train headed from the transit museum and as the train approached Jay Street/Borough Hall, a signal malfunctioned, thus tripping the train more than two times. And when that happened, the batteries on the T/O's walkie-talkie died out.
Peace,
ANDEE
BART to S.J. facing 12-year delay
By Gary Richards
San Jose Mercury News
In a stunning setback to the plan to bring BART to San Jose, the Valley Transportation Authority will release a report tonight saying that at best, BART may not be completed until 2026 -- 12 years later than expected.
Three years ago, South Bay voters approved a half-cent sales tax to help pay for the $4.1 billion, 16.3-mile BART extension largely because they were promised trains would be running before too long. But that dream is receding into the future. If you are commuting today, chances are, you will never commute on BART in Silicon Valley.
The VTA report says that if the agency does not develop a major new revenue stream, it will lack the financial stability needed to purchase bonds to speed up the project.
``The delay would be substantial,'' said Scott Buhrer, the VTA's chief financial officer. ``If we construct BART with just the revenues now available and slow the project down to fit the current forecast, it would take another 23 years to complete.''
News of the report stunned many officials who, for perhaps the first time, are questioning whether BART to San Jose will ever be built. It did not, however, surprise transportation advocates, who have been warning for years that the money wasn't there to operate trolleys and buses and bring BART south.
``I know what we promised voters, but the problem is that we've got more on our plate than we can afford,'' said Santa Clara County Supervisor Don Gage, the chairman of a special committee reviewing VTA's finances.
Waiting 20-plus years is not acceptable, said Carl Guardino, head of the Silicon Valley Manufacturing Group and manager of three county transportation tax measures.
``Voters taxed themselves for BART and it would be taxing their patience too much to wait 23 more years,'' said Guardino, 42. ``I really don't want to use a senior citizen discount by the time the train arrives.''
The transit agency has released a series of funding scenarios in recent weeks, grappling with the devastating impact the valley's worst recession has had on mass transit. Santa Clara County officials eventually concluded that the agency would need another $700 million to hold BART to its original schedule. That figure alarmed Supervisor Blanca Alvarado, who added an item to tonight's agenda asking when BART realistically would be finished.
Buhrer's response to Alvarado was a shocker: The county's $700 million shortfall estimate was too low.
``The number is bigger than that,'' Buhrer said, adding that while the VTA could seek bonds totaling $1.4 billion over the next decade, it may need as much as $2 billion, ``and that's before you add in the interest costs.''
Led by Gonzales
The BART to San Jose effort was led by San Jose Mayor Ron Gonzales, who has pushed for an extension for more than a decade. He was en route to Vancouver on Wednesday and unavailable for comment.
Business leaders are surveying voters to see if they would support another sales tax measure in November 2004. A half-cent tax would cover the transit agency's operating shortfall and help put BART back on its original construction schedule.
The sour economy may make passing a tax difficult, especially when voters already approved an earlier tax believing they would be boarding trains under Santa Clara Street in the next decade. In addition, under current state law, a new tax needs a two-thirds majority to pass. Only one of five transportation measures -- the BART tax -- has passed by that margin in the county. And some voters may feel that the BART delay is merely a ploy to push through a sales tax.
But Gage said the numbers are loud and clear. ``This is the reality,'' he said. ``This is the bottom line.''
Another option is being pushed by Supervisor Jim Beall: Instead of increasing the local sales tax, ask voters to extend Measure A by 15 or 20 years. Beall said an extension could raise an extra $3.2 billion. BART might still be delayed, but the transit agency could guarantee that new tracks are laid.
``Some people can talk about a tax increase, but I don't think the voters are talking about it,'' said Beall, a member of the Metropolitan Transportation Commission. ``A tax is unacceptable and will be more opposed than in the past.''
A shorter plan
Another option: Extend BART to East San Jose, perhaps at a station along Alum Rock Avenue, then stop. It would cut the $4.1 billion price tag perhaps in half.
Optimists are floating a best-case scenario that is full of ifs: If a new sales tax passes, if Washington and Sacramento deliver every penny, then the BART extension could be built by 2016.
But Sacramento and Washington are awash in red ink. Gov. Davis pledged $760 million for BART when times were flush. Now, more than $600 million of that is frozen until at least 2009. The transit agency wants the federal government to kick in $834 million for BART, but transit authorities around the country are clamoring for money and competition is fierce.
``You're assuming that we'll get federal and state money,'' said Gage, the supervisor from Gilroy. ``I don't think that is going to happen.
``And even if the economy turns around, it's never going to be as hot as it was.''
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Valley Transportation Authority meets today at 6 p.m. in the board of supervisor chambers at 70 W. Hedding St., San Jose. Contact Gary Richards at mrroadshow@mercurynews. com or (408) 920-5335.
Mark
I think the sales tax being collected could be used to electrify the Caltrain line and introduce frequent catenary or third-rail powered commuter service with improved ADA compliant platforms, integrated Santa Clara Transit bus terminals, and perhaps new light rail in San Jose itself connecting to the Caltrain.
Mark
False statement. CalTrain already does provide east bay commuters with access to Silicon Valley. What is does NOT do is provide a one-seat ride there. You have to transfer to Caltrain. System map
CalTrain has improved their schedule recently.
Look at this press release.
If I recall correctly, BART reaches speedsof 45-50 mph under the Bay and on longer stretches of track. Caltrain's speed limit between stations is 79 mph, unless that has changed recently (correct me here if I am wrong).
It would be more cost effective for BART to expand its web within San Francisco County and adjacent communities, while CalTrain upgrades ROW to a high speed (100 mph+) line.
Perhaps a separate CalTrain Line going straight from the East Bay to San Jose would be desired. This line would never actually cross the Bay; it would stay on the East Shore and head toward San Jose. Again, I would advocate a catenary-supplied commuter rail line with high speed (at least 100 mph) running.
As for operating characteristics, Caltrains is generally a 70mph railroad at present with 60mph north of Bayshore and some 75mph between Mountain View and Santa Clara. BART on the other hand generally reaches 75mph on the longer stretches. Of course, this does not reflect the projected speeds from the ongoing rebuilding. While Caltrains service will be faster with more trains come next Spring, it still doesn't address East Bay.
I sympathize with BART riders hanging out as far as Fremont, but the map shows your statement does not apply as you get into Oakland.
OK, so you want to expand the East Branch (my terminology) of BART, as opposed to creating another branch of the railroad to come north to meet it. OK, you've convinced me. Now let's find some money. The sales tax doesn't supply enough.
"As for operating characteristics, Caltrains is generally a 70mph railroad at present with 60mph north of Bayshore and some 75mph between Mountain View and Santa Clara."
That sucks. Gotta speed it up!
I did know know that! Gearloose, you withheld evidence undermining your claim!
Thanks, David.
The previous response from Dave V. that outlined the 6 points essentially mirrors my own opinion except that I don't consider the Capitol Service at present to be a real commuter option (bullet 1).
As for the points made in bullets 2,3,5 and 6, I wholeheartedly agree with them. I'm not sure what he means by bullet 4.
While I would much rather see a Caltrains type operation, I just have a feeling that it would be easier to sell the idea of extending BART. Regardless, Dave's points in bullets 5 and 6 are going to be the deciding factors.
As to item 4 previous, I am one of the people who believe that BART , among other goals, was designed from the getgo to supplant the then SP Peninsula line now CalTrain. Some facts. BART is non-standard guage thus completely incompatible with ANY other US Rail operation.. At the time this "engineering" decision was made, SP was virulently anti-passenger. The then Chairman of the SP BOD was S. D. Bechtel Sr. S. D. Jr. was also on the board. Bechtel corp, the family owned Construction firm was one of the three who formed the joint venture design/management group responsible for these decisions. The BART board at the time was not very independent. SP's attempts to junk the commuter service in the 70's included a public offer to buy each rider a vehicle to get them off the trains. The irony of history is that a nearly insolvent SP later ecstatically sold the line to the tri county Joint Powers Board, and CalTrain has since managed to increase ridership (new cars better service, d'oh) such that they exceeded their WWII records. And all of this for a line whose terminal is NOT in the CBD and forces users to transfer to poorly run local transit for the last mile.
In NY terms assume that instead of PATH, ALL the NJT riders at Hoboken had to take various buses (none express), or a badly run LR line to get to Manhattan.
Candidates:
The A - The first IND line, immortalized in song.
The 6 - Only subway line given a starring role in its own movie. (The 4 gets an honorable mention for its supporting role in "The Incident.")
The 1 - Simply because of its moniker and because it uses some of the oldest parts of the system.
The Times Square shuttle - One of the oldest shuttle lines in existence, and connects two of the most famous places in the world.
Suggestions?
Peace,
ANDEE
That's from a New Yorker's perspective. From an out-of-towner's perspective, I'd say: Hands down, The A train, no contest.
Mark
BTW, admist all the route changes and numbers conversions, the A line is the only shared route subway line that is untouched in major routing modifications (aside from improved Brooklyn express service). The 6, 7, L and the shuttles do not count because these routes cannot be physically modified and are not shared by other subway lines (Unless you count the late night 4 line sharing the same tracks at the 6). All lettered lines had some form of route changes here and there.
Ditto the W vs. West End Express. If you can forgive the A Line's being extended to East New York, then Lefferts and the Rockaways, add the M (same route since the 1920s, but extended to the Southern Division) and the R, not to mention the E and F.
E was originally to the Rockaways during rush hours before the CC line was extened to the Rockaways
F ended at 2nd ave and was extended to Coney Island in 1967.
M was rerouted from Brighton to West End line in May, 1986 (and that was supposed to be a temporary service change)
So these routes do not count, they were modifed one way or another.
A line was originally to Chambers Street, 1/31/33 extended to Jay Street/Borough Hall, 3/20/33 extended to Bergen Street, 10/7/33 extended to Church Avenue, Smith St. Line, 4/8/36 switched southern terminal to Rockaway Ave, Fulton Street Line, later to East New York, then Euclid Ave., then Lefferts Blvd. and some trains to Rockaway, etc., etc.
I understand your point but it needs some firmer logic. We might ask what current service has been unchanged for the longest time, and how minor a change "spoils the broth."
:-) Andrew
Immortalized by Bugs Bunny!
Regarding the 7 line, I think more than 100 distinct ehtnic groups have been identified as either living or working in the 11373 zip code area of Elmhurst, Queens. I heard it on WNYC 93.9 FM in early June 1998.
My mother was born in the 1930's and grew up one block from the Brooklyn Museum and lived there until she was married. She used the shuttle often and never heard of the Malbone Street wreck. I told it to her.
She is from the neighborhood, familiar with the line and is in her seventies. If she does not know of it (without me informing her) then no one will except a fan of urban transit. That is even more so for any out-of-towner.
Of course one of the most famous personalities of the 20th century claimed to have worked the Shuttle from Times Square to Grand Central - Bugs Bunny I don't see how that can be topped.
Vince
I guess I haven't wasted my life.
Vince
I totally disagree that statement. The new Franklin Ave shuttle, although the route has not changed, is still nothing compared to the old, crappy, unsafe, dark shuttle.
I hate it when people haven't rode the shuttle for decades and find excuses for making BMTman's favorite line worse than it really is.
The shuttle has seen the highest ridership, ever (thanks to the new IRT connection at Botanic Garden and safer, more inviting stations) and when they had a hearing about the plans for the shuttle to be renovated back in 1996 I was there speaking for the plan. So restoration or renovation works for the line, the community and the people. If only they could've saved the 3rd Ave el in the Bronx, but it's too late.
1. "A" Train...thanks to Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn.
2. "B" Train (now W)...thanks to the opening scene of "Saturday Night Fever"
3. "6" Train...thanks to "The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3"
Current:
"7" Train...thanks to "King of Queens" opening credits
1. "A" Train...thanks to Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn.
2. "B" Train (now W)...thanks to the opening scene of "Saturday Night Fever"
3. "6" Train...thanks to "The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3"
Current:
"7" Train...thanks to "King of Queens" opening credits
If so, Manhattan's Third Ave "el" is.
Bill "Newkirk:
If you were to go to Montana, or New Mexico, or London, and you were to ask this same question expecting a NYC answer, do you honestly expect someone to say the #6?
C'mon already, the A line is probably the WORLD'S most famous subway line.
Yeah, and it doesn't hurt that it stops at Pennsylvania Station (five oh oh oh).
Never heard of Jay-Z?
The M train can also be made famous if they made a deal with M&M/Mars (yes, I know people don't like the Brown M&M, but it conveys a meaning of chocolate).
>Never heard of Jay-Z?
Yeah, lucky guy is with Beyoncé :)
wayne
#3 West End Jeff
Mark
Bet that's a rockin' disc!
: )
Mark
Mark
Mark
If shuttles don't count (though this one's as long as some full-length lines in other cities) then I guess it's the (V).
:-) Andrew
:-) Andrew
Z (least famous)
G
M
L
J
Yeah, I agree it's the A train. I can show it to you in sales.
It is the top selling single train shirt my company makes.
Even folks too young or culturally deprived enough not to have heard
the song title like the A train shirts though. A as a quality or
grade is so positive. The #1 is also popular, I think because who
doesn't want to be #1?
Subway grrl
The Times Square Grand Central Shuttle was once worked by Bugs Bunny so its hard to beat that celebrity endorsement !
Vince
Nowadays, the crowds might turn to the Q train for a weekend trip to Coney Island once the terminal re-opens. But then again, some still might opt for the ol' reliable D train.
Regards,
Jimmy
Mark
I think the sales tax being collected could be used to electrify the Caltrain line and introduce frequent catenary or third-rail powered commuter service with improved ADA compliant platforms, integrated Santa Clara Transit bus terminals, and perhaps new light rail in San Jose itself connecting to the Caltrain.
Mark
False statement. CalTrain already does provide east bay commuters with access to Silicon Valley. What is does NOT do is provide a one-seat ride there. You have to transfer to Caltrain. System map
CalTrain has improved their schedule recently.
Look at this press release.
If I recall correctly, BART reaches speedsof 45-50 mph under the Bay and on longer stretches of track. Caltrain's speed limit between stations is 79 mph, unless that has changed recently (correct me here if I am wrong).
It would be more cost effective for BART to expand its web within San Francisco County and adjacent communities, while CalTrain upgrades ROW to a high speed (100 mph+) line.
Perhaps a separate CalTrain Line going straight from the East Bay to San Jose would be desired. This line would never actually cross the Bay; it would stay on the East Shore and head toward San Jose. Again, I would advocate a catenary-supplied commuter rail line with high speed (at least 100 mph) running.
As for operating characteristics, Caltrains is generally a 70mph railroad at present with 60mph north of Bayshore and some 75mph between Mountain View and Santa Clara. BART on the other hand generally reaches 75mph on the longer stretches. Of course, this does not reflect the projected speeds from the ongoing rebuilding. While Caltrains service will be faster with more trains come next Spring, it still doesn't address East Bay.
I sympathize with BART riders hanging out as far as Fremont, but the map shows your statement does not apply as you get into Oakland.
OK, so you want to expand the East Branch (my terminology) of BART, as opposed to creating another branch of the railroad to come north to meet it. OK, you've convinced me. Now let's find some money. The sales tax doesn't supply enough.
"As for operating characteristics, Caltrains is generally a 70mph railroad at present with 60mph north of Bayshore and some 75mph between Mountain View and Santa Clara."
That sucks. Gotta speed it up!
I did know know that! Gearloose, you withheld evidence undermining your claim!
Thanks, David.
The previous response from Dave V. that outlined the 6 points essentially mirrors my own opinion except that I don't consider the Capitol Service at present to be a real commuter option (bullet 1).
As for the points made in bullets 2,3,5 and 6, I wholeheartedly agree with them. I'm not sure what he means by bullet 4.
While I would much rather see a Caltrains type operation, I just have a feeling that it would be easier to sell the idea of extending BART. Regardless, Dave's points in bullets 5 and 6 are going to be the deciding factors.
As to item 4 previous, I am one of the people who believe that BART , among other goals, was designed from the getgo to supplant the then SP Peninsula line now CalTrain. Some facts. BART is non-standard guage thus completely incompatible with ANY other US Rail operation.. At the time this "engineering" decision was made, SP was virulently anti-passenger. The then Chairman of the SP BOD was S. D. Bechtel Sr. S. D. Jr. was also on the board. Bechtel corp, the family owned Construction firm was one of the three who formed the joint venture design/management group responsible for these decisions. The BART board at the time was not very independent. SP's attempts to junk the commuter service in the 70's included a public offer to buy each rider a vehicle to get them off the trains. The irony of history is that a nearly insolvent SP later ecstatically sold the line to the tri county Joint Powers Board, and CalTrain has since managed to increase ridership (new cars better service, d'oh) such that they exceeded their WWII records. And all of this for a line whose terminal is NOT in the CBD and forces users to transfer to poorly run local transit for the last mile.
In NY terms assume that instead of PATH, ALL the NJT riders at Hoboken had to take various buses (none express), or a badly run LR line to get to Manhattan.
First set of blue RCA barrier has a shiny new single escalator being installed, it is 80% complete. I presume this will be an up escalator. The smaller little RCA barrier just behind the escalator has the ADA elevator. 2004 is coming and so is this new passageway connecting Lexington and 3rd Ave mezzanines.
Tick Tock!
"RCA?"
Out of towners...you gotta come back here and visit once in a while so incidents like this don't happen!!!
RCA = restricted clearance area
"Do not stand in the RCA"
And I was referring to you postings that matter and you advocate ADA access to any typew of rail system, as well as keep us abreast of all future expansion plans on SAS, ESA, SF realingment, and other matters.
Seriously, thanks for the compliment.
Your welcome.
R-32.
The Kansas City Area Transportation Authority offers sparse service, though their drivers are friendly and very helpful and courteous. There will be an additional cut in service next year unless a sales tax increase is approved. Even now, you could probably find a NYCTA bus line (or maybe more than one) that carries, all by itself, twice as many passengers per day as the entire KCATA system combined.
On the web: KC Transit
On the web: KC Transit
You forgot to close the anchor with "< /a >"
(All I need now are the black stripes on the border, but I don't know how to do that with Cascading Style Sheets. I don't even know if that's possible!)
Not many people pay attention to these signs, though.
Other than that I don't think the track layout of the original route has changed much in 99 years.
3348-3549/3382-3831/3420-3645/3444-3777/3470-3919
That's just one combination. AND, none of those cars on this train has another car in it whose number is ±1 from any other car. I think this would be interesting to see, wouldn't you?
I think the MTA has taken this political correctness one step two far. The "married pairs" used to be marriage amongst equals, but now they have so much "interracial marriage". Before soon you will see Redbirds in a "married pair" with R142s. AEM7
Is not Redbirds, then maybe R142A's.
7111-7112-7213-7114-7115
R-32.
R-32.
3418 and 3419. Saw them today on an E train and got a pic of them at 7th Avenue/53 St. How can you tell the A end is showing? The B cab doesn't have the air gauge, the speedometer or the other motorman's controls that an A cab has. It'll be up tomorrow.
NUTTIN wrong with that, brah!!!
Just last week I walked into my Frankford-bound house by mistake.
: )
Mark
Indian accents + cursing = funny
One time while on the 6 train the conductor said "PLEASE LET GO OF THE DOORS, THERE IS ANOTHER TRAIN DIRECTLY BEHIND THIS ONE, LOOK U CAN SEE THE HEADLIGHTS!!!"
She was right, I peeked out of the train and saw the headlights. It was waiting for us to leave the station.
It's good to know I'm not the only one who does things like that.
R-10s pulling in, stopping and doors opening when Windows opens.
R-10 doors open when opening a Windows program.
R-10 doors close when a Windows program closes.
R-27 doors close when a print command executes.
R-46 door chimes (out of tune), brakes release and train starts up when new email is received.
Conductor announces, "Euclid Ave. will be the next and last stop on this train. Euclid Ave. will be the next stop. Stand clear of the doors." R-27 doors close, load sensing valve beeps, brakes release when computer is shut down.
I don't care how much the conversion to diesel and rubber tires cost you, BRING THE REDBIRD BACK TO 207!
It must be a sign that you are too preoccupied with something rail.
Two weeks that leave you too tired to return to work, and too broke not to.
:-) Andrew
-You turn off your headlights while waiting in the drive-thru line
to get up to the service window at McDonald's. (T/O's turn off their
headlights when waiting in the conga line to get into Terminal 242)
-You tell your FEMALE passengers "Watch the closing doors" after you
seat them and are about to shut their car door. (Courtesy, no?).
I am guilty of committing the above.
x__1SouthFerry9___
Confucius says: Man who go thru AirTrain turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.
9. You stand next to a park bench
8. Your alarm clock sounds like the BEEEP BEEEP of the next train indicator display.
7. You know that batteries are too expensive in a store.
6. When typing a letter, you mistakely type G.O. instead of the word "go".
5. You are at a move theater and you use a door that says "Emergency Exit Only."
4. You are sitting in a restaurant, closest to the front door. An eldery woman comes in and you offer her your seat, and in the process take you and your food to another table.
3. You use your credit card at an ATM, and you insert it the wrond way, vertical like your Metrocard.
2. You know you wear a watch, but you look at the Metrocard display for the time.
1. And for the biggest symptom of all (Drumroll please):
You drive your car in Canarsie and go through the B42 gate and on the bus ramp, park your car and take the L train in to work.
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Aww crap I got that problem. :-P
When you're leaving the house, before you close the door, you say "Stand Clear of the Closing Doors".
When you're driving, you stop at yellow lights, because you think you're being held by the dispatcher.
You stop at a red traffic light and tell the people in the car with you "We are being held by a red signal. We shall be moving momentarily, please be patient."
When you're sick, you call and say you're Out Of Service.
As you approach a green light, you tap the horn several times in a beep-beep, beep-beep pattern.
You pump the brake pedal while stopped, trying to hear that familiar air hissing sound.
and you repeatedly deal with situations by reciting a R142 announcement:
Person blocking the sidewalk with their firkin huge stroller
You think - "Ladies and gentlemen for your safety, please do not block the sidewalk while the train is in the station"
Articulated bus shows up to a given stop with a standing load against the front and rear doors:
You think- "Ladies and gentlemen, riding on the outside of buses is dangerous. please Remain on the inside of the car."
Someone is blocking a door or hallway:
You- Get closer and closer, and even closer until you are basically towering over them.
Main stairwell is not moving- It is jammed with students, because we took in an additional 240 freshmen this year, compared to last.
You think- "Ladies and gentelman, we are being held momentarily by the train dispatcher. Please be patient"
Right before your temper explodes
You think - *BIE* "This is the last stop on the train. Everyone please leave the train, thank you for riding MTA New York City transit"
Who came up with this idea on this board, cause I know someone did, and it was not me.
No, I hear you. I've done that but it entails opening up each old message and reading it. I've searched under my screen name, chronologically from 01/01/03 to 03/31/03 and came up with a long list of messages I've posted. At least a hundred. Too many to be bothered with. So I decided to forgo further searching for the posting. It don't matter much anyway.
Peace,
ANDEE
Oh well, I prefer participating in the game show Twenty One instead.
The IRT mezzanine level (below the platforms) is taking shape. Bright lighting and tile work is now evident, each platform will have three modes of exit. Manhattan-bound 2 and 3 has one double set of stairs and a single. 4 and 5 center platform now has three staircases or which the south stairs has a glass floor nearby. The S/B 2 and 3 platform has not seen much radical change yet besides the new passageway directly to the platform from the Pacific St side. Elevators can be seen being installed at the following locations:
1. At street level on 4th Ave and Pacific St, behind P.C. Richard store
2. 3 elevators to IRT platforms, two are to the side of the south stairs of the 7th Ave platforms, the elevator to the 4 and 5 platform is seen behind the double stairs.
4. Elevator to the Brighton line is where the old staircase was closed off, it is next to the egg slicers leading to LIRR tracks 5 and 6.
5. Elevators to the Pacific St side are to the front end of the platform, most likely spot.
Now here's something interesting at the LIRR:
A new staircase to street level is open P/T on Tracks 1 and 2 at the far eastern side of the station, it leads out to the Pathmark store across the street. This is where you would usually board the first car of the train so it's a long walk to the ticket booth and waiting area if you need them. Another staircase may open up from tracks 3 and 4.
Peace,
ANDEE
That is correct, but they are taking their steamer to Mystic, i.e. off their RxR. That's where they need trackage rights permission of who ever. In recent years these RxRs have put up bigger obsticles bacause they don't what to have to be worried about "it" breaking down & inconveniencing THEM. The problem is that they are not railfans and the trip doesn't fit into their profit plans.
www.wmsr.com
Mark
I bought a "No Smoking" sign there paid I think $3 for it, maybe $5, but no more that that.
There is an identical sign for sale now on eBay, currently $150!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2193425027&category=4152
The eastbound backup at about 9:20 goes from Main Street back to about Junction Blvd and beyond. If someone needs to get to Flushing at that time, good luck- Allow at least 10-15 extra minutes to get to Main Street. Is this because of trhe construction on the yard leads?
Thirdly, there are little yellow signs posted saying that Manhattan bound express trains run on the local track from 10AM to 3PM. For the 15-20 minutes I was at Willets Point ( 9:30- 9:50), the expresses came on the local track. There were no announcements and people waiting on the express platform were running back and forth when they saw a train. You have to go down and under a tunnel to get from express to local track ( Manhattan bound). At one point, a yard train came through on the express track and everyone on the local platform ran down and around only to see the train run right through the station.
This is very poor subway running and customer relations. Sad- I can remember when the Flushing Line was a shining star for NYCT.
I guess someone at the TA forgot that the last Manhattan bound express leaves Main Street at 12:09 P.M.?
Yet another reason I don't go through Flushing unless I have to. My "commute" to Queens College takes me through Kew Gardens.
How many Redbirds did I see in revenue service? Zero. :-(
I miss them already.
http://www.timesnewsweekly.com/NewFiles/ANNOUNCEMENTS%20GET%20WORSE.html
See story here.
One funny thing is that they call the old turntable a train Merry-go-round".
And where do LIRR trains stop now? Are we talking about a working station?
The new high platform is further west along the track.
Cool.
There is a new high platform away from the building and yard, but trains usually go to the yard from there, then go back to the platform for the return trip.
The original platform canopy was longer and was cut back years ago.
Bill "Newkirk"
: )
Mark
We received the e-mail below from you regarding our appearance on
KCET. channel 28 los angeles california
you said
..."We are sorry that you felt we were smug and arrogant"...????...!
MY ANSWER IS
I was not "smug and arrogant"...!!
you said again
" we were referring specifically the to Pacific
Electric. we were discussing the
much broader subject of fixed rail transit in America. We were not.
Our comments were related to the Pacific Electric only."
MY ANSWER IS AGAIN
That you did include all of the rail transit systems in north america
i look at the TAPE again and these words came right out of your mouth
into the KCET camera !!
you said again
"Regarding the demise of the P.E., the facts simply do not support a
conspiracy by any one group or organization. The causes for the
demise of the P.E. are these:"
BUT THE TRUTH IS is was deliberately done !
why did you not comment on the success of the LACMTA gold & blue lines ??
you said
"1) Aging infrastructure which the Southern Pacific had not
maintained. As a private corporation, the S.P. could not make a
profit if it was to lay out the cash needed to rebuild the system
after WWII."
So who maintained the right of ways after that ? and THE PAVING OVER OF IT ?
the same taxpayers at TWICE THE EXPENSE ??
you said again
"2) Taxes?...!. The tax burden on street railways was crippling. Nearly
half the taxes paid in L.A. county came from the P.E. and the LARY.
It was enormous and a major business consideration."
TAXES ? the same TAXES that was DOUBLE paying for buses ??
who paid for the DEMOLITION ? ........we did of cource !!
AND MILLIONS MORE TO REBUILD Only 70 miles of what once was !!.....??
you said...
"3) The switch to bus service (begun by the P.E. itself in the 1920s)
was born out of economic expediency. A bus running on public streets
does not have to maintain a rail infrastructure, nor does it have to
pay taxes on those rails."
BUT BUSES HAVE TO COMPETE WITH CARS PICKUP TRUCKS VANS AUTOMOBILES AND TAKE 6 TIMES AS LONG AS RAIL RIGHT OF WAYS!
this same jive was done to detroit now it takes all day to go to work on public
transportation there !!
YOU INSIST AS IT WAS THEN THAT THE BUS IS BETTER TIME PROVES THIS NOT!
you said
"4) The Pacific Electric asked the highway department to help lay
tracks down the center of freeways as they were being built in
Southern California. The Highway Department refused. The P.E. was a
private company and tax dollars could not be used to support a
private company".
WE ASKED FOR THE SAME THING WHEN THE RED LINE SUBWAY 2 NOWHERE
WAS FIRST BUILT WHATS NEW ABOUT THAT ?
one line did run down the hollywood freeway and they do this in chicago now !!
and atlanta and washington dc !! ...SO WHATS THE BIG DEAL ?
once again your tall tale falls flat on its face !!
you said
"4) Southern Pacific offered the P.E. to the city of Los Angeles, but
L.A. didn't want it. The S.P. then turned to the Metropolitan Coach
Lines, another private company. Once again, economics drove the
situation. Buses were cheaper for the company to run. Even so, they
could not make a go of the enterprise".
THE TRUTH IS AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT THE PE SYSTEM WAS ALLOWED TO DIE BY ALL OF THE "organized conspirators"...
THEY SURE HAVE WHAT THEY WANT NOW DO THEY NOT ?
jammed freeways bumper 2 bumper traffic and look at all of that OIL being burned !
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
you said again ...................."jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzh"
"5) In the end, it was a public agency, the first MTA that got rid of
the last Red Cars."
BUT THE TRUTH IS THAT THE SAME SYSTEM IS NEEDED NOW MORE THAN EVER BEFORE AND ONLY 70 MILES HAS BEEN RESTORED !
the same LACMTA admits they were abandoned and defunded and yes
well organized '"organized conspirators"
ONE THING FOR SURE THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED DIDNT THEY ?
JAMMED TRAFFIC ALL WITH PERTOLEUM BURNING VEHICLES !!
you said again.
"It is always easier to find a person or corporation to blame, to say,
"They did it, it's their fault!" You are probably aware that in the
late 40's General Motors was indicted on three counts in regard to
the conversion of street railways to bus service. Two of these
counts charged that GM bought into rail companies in order to abandon
rail in favor of bus service. The third count charge that GM
insisted that it's buses be used by the companies in which it was
partnered. Are you also aware that General Motors was found NOT
GUILTY on the conspiracy charges? They were found guilty of
insisting that companies they were involved in buy GM product.
However, the offense was so minor that they were fined one dollar and
sent on their way.
The fact is, there is plenty of blame to go around but, there was no
organized conspiracy, at least not as far as the P.E. was concerned.
It was a question of economics, infrastructure and taxes. It was
also a matter of public apathy. At the time when the last street
rail lines were being abandon, Amerians generally, and Southern
Californians in particular, sincerely felt that freeways were the
answer to interurban transportation. That has, of course, been
proven wrong. However, at the time, it was the prevailing thought."
AGAIN YOU FAILED TO MENTION HOW THE SUCCESS OF LIGHT RAIL
IS RUNNING OVER THE SAME PACIFIC ELECTRIC LINE RIGHT OF WAYS
THAT REMAIN !
EVERYONE WITH A BRAIN KNOWS THIS WAS WRONG TO DESTROY THE RAIL
SYSTEMS OF AMERICA IN DETROIT AND ALL ACROSS THE COUINTRY
not just and only the PACIFIC ELECTRIC SYSTEM !!
i remember when the last of the PCC cars were gone
IT WAS HELL GETTING AROUND IN A BUS EVER SINCE !!
you said..
"Our documentary, which you should see, was done by interviewing
people from Orange Empire, Pacific Railway Foundation, etc. These
are true P.E. fans. To a person, they all expressed the same view."
WHO PAID YOU TO DO THIS THE OIL COMPAINIES THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION
COMPANIES ??
why were you to so dammed arrogant in you PROTECTING THEM ??
you said
"we are so happy to see that
conspiracy theory put to rest!"
THE TRUTH IS YOU did not put anything to rest !
YOU PROVED IT EVEN WORSE !!
you should have been more considerate of those of us who are transit dependant
and those of us who need and use public transportation nationwide
IF THE OIL COMPANIES AND INTERNAL COMBUSTION COMPANIES
HAD IT THIER WAY THE SUBWAY SYSTEM IN NEW YORK PHILADEPHIA
BOSTON CHICAGO WHOPULD HAVE BEEN DISMANTELED AND DESTROYED
( just like they did poor little PACIFIC ELECTRIC system in southern california )
at least you could have done something with todays LACMTA GOLD LINE
& BLUE LINE success stories !
SORRY FOLKS BUT YOU PROVED US RIGHT
your arrogance on this is amazing !!
enjoy your ride in your private automobile
ONE DAY YOU MIGHT ALSO BECOME TRANSIT DEPENDANT TOO !
( when you loose your drivers liscense ) .................lol .........!!
SALAAM ALLAH ...................
The term videographer would sound more official than video maker. Video maker sounds like you're assembling video cassettes in your kitchen !!
Bill "Newkirk"
er.....There is one R-142A image and one R-143 image in the 2004 edition, just to warn you. However, there is an image of Redbird #9056 in Washington D.C. on the ground with the Washington Monument in the background. #9056 "sleeps with the fishes" as Richard Castellano would say in the Godfather.
I gotta go now, gavity is pulling my eyelids shut and I don't want to use my keyboard as a pillow !
Bill "Newkirk"
Bill "Newkirk"
--Mark
------------------------------------------------------------------
This afternoon I was lucky enough to get to railfan a redbird on the <7> from Times Square all the way to Main St. The car I was in was 9699. The fastest we went was 42 MPH, and the trip took 28 minutes and 30 seconds. Some of the beige paint near the storm door was peeling off, revealing the original sky-blue paint. I tried to pick at the rest, but it was stubborn and wouldn't come off. You never know....I may never get to ride a redbird again.
Goodbye. =(
I've made a half dozen "last Redbird ride" pilgrimages to the 7 line, and will make the last next Thursday, although I think my chances of seeing any in action will be slim.
-Stef
http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/odrive/15days/e093003_gunn1.rm
Requires Real Player.
Anyways he asnwered questions on a possible Amtrak strike, and pretty much answered, he didn't expect one to happen. I'm not sure if that answers the question.
Anyways the R143 that a few of us spotted at West 4 St was testing out a new set of stripmaps.
Here is the URL for pictures: http://www.straphangers.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=004457#000023
http://www.straphangers.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=004457#000023
Robert
Let's hope they use these signs in the 160's AND retrofit the 142/143's!
http://webpage.pace.edu/al99496n/R143_3.jpg
I've realized:
Its not a full LED panel, but rather a template with certain sections cut out for information. Look at the "line" on the strip map and the words "Further stops" and "Last stop". They're much too clear to be LED. Compare to the size of the other LED's, if it was full LED those letters and lines would be jagged.
As to it being a mockup:
1. On the same note, some of the white text used for the route indicators is too crisp (especially the big A). Again the letter would appear jagged as the words in the orange and green LEDs.
2. LEDs tend to shift color slightly and brightness at angles (LEDs look brightest dead on). These dont, making me believe these are printed signs.
3. Look at the "display" where the two floursecent fixtures meet. The LEDs obviosuly become dimmer. If it were an LED panel they may be dimmer, but not as noticable.
I still say its printed because some of my points are valid for LCD panels too. Try looking at a flat panel monitor from an angle, colors shift and fade, while in the photo everything appears uniform.
So David J. Greenberger is offer limit afterware.
HUH!?
Passed two other Redbird sets, both light, one Manhattan-bound somewhere around 74th, the other Manhattan-bound (or, more likely, yard-bound) leaving Main Street.
This trip was entirely unplanned. I was at 42nd and 5th, and, rather than walk to Times Square, I figured I'd take the 7 one stop, just in case a Redbird set was running. I stopped to take this photo:
But the annunciator had already started chirping, so I ran downstairs, and there it was!
N9582-9583-9318-9721-9720-9714-9715-9652-9653-9586-9587S.
If anyone's ever wanted a signbox, 9714's has grown a handle:
The return trip was a surprise, too: I boarded none other than R-62A 1668, with red yard stripes. As of September 18, car 1668 was still on the 1/9. When did it move to Corona? More importantly, why did it move to Corona, and what is 240 gaining in return?
Did you try sticking your hand in that rusty crevasse above the roll-sign?
So is the exciting experience of tetanus. ;)
They're swapping cars. For what reason I don't know. Some more are supposed to go over soon.
240's maintenance is bar none, IMO, in particular in the HVAC department. We already gave up some of our cars for Pelham's; why are we now giving up more?
Like anyone shopping for a classic 1950's car, you always carry magnets so you can be sure of what's under da paint. They fell.
BTW, when you get a magnet to stick to a '53 vette, you're in trouble. :)
Yep, they just crack and shatter. I had a friend who had an '83 (supposedly was an '83) who had some moron cut him off and he rearended the guy at about 45. Front fenders basically turned to dust. Engine through the firewall stopped him from going through the windshield though. :)
That's why I'm glad my 'bird was made before they switched over to that plastic crap Saturn uses.
Railcar manufacturers though could probably use some of that lightweight plastic stuff for certain parts of the carbody in areas not likely to se a hard hit.
#3 West End Jeff
It still doesn't account for the R-33 mainlines. I never saw anything remotely like that on a 2/5 R-33, but they were all rushed out of service by March.
:-) Andrew
--Mark
Not really!
I think folks here would be more interested in meeting Avid Reader or Heypaul since both appear to be enigmas. Not sure if either of them really exist anymore...
Who cares about meeting people, I want to get a train at 76th Street.
Easy, go to Pitkin Yard and hop on a train going in service there. Then hop off at 76th Street, if you can see the station.
Only after he sells his automobile (even non-transit buffs who live in Manhattan don't own cars, let alone a so called "transit buff!), and after he agrees to do some more suburban rail and bus riding! ;-)
Insurance is a cost, but so is selling. The car is worth a lot more than I'd conceivably get for it.
I didn't get the car when I lived in Manhattan. Although I have a job now, I'm still looking for a permanent position (the one I have is available permanently if I want to keep it, but I don't think I do), which may take me out of the city. Why sell a perfectly good car now for a few dollars when I may have to go right out and buy a replacement for a lot more?
Now, could someone please explain to me why I'm defending my choice to own an automobile to somebody I've never even met?
Now, now, there are no hard feelings here. If you saw my origianl post, I did include a ";-)" afterward.
Anyhow, I was just curious, that's all. You have to admit that it seems odd that someone who lives in Manhattan who loves riding subways and buses would own a car. You're more than welcome to ask questions of me like why did I move from Brooklyn to New Jersey when I claim to be a New York City subway/bus buff. Feel free to ask away if you wish!
Some trips were to take me to The Hospital for Special Surgery for operations to my arm and leg (I have CP). If I recall correctly, the hospital didn't offer much in the way of parking back then. Buses were not handicapped accessible and neither was the subway, and I had casts on and sometimes needed a wheelchair coming out of the hospital.
SEND IN THE LIONS!!!!
But there is a legal place to do that, it's all on the outside of a building on the Manhattan-bound #7 train side as the train makes the second right curve before dipping into Hunters Point Ave. The building is a sight to see all the real artists renting space to legally spray their "tags" on the building.
Except for the V line, the auto-installers should install the files to the correct directories.
If not you may need to reinstall BVE itself(doesn't delete any of your routes...) or I just zipped them for you if that's the case.....
I'm thinking when things get installed to the wrong dir, it's impossible to figure out what belongs and what doesn't then thigns mess up.
Any others?
CG
They're hoping to have enough in the budget next year to buy enough string to reach all the way to Atlantic Avenue.
CG
I was on that train that day [don't ask]. I was SHOCKED...I'm surprised the thing even HAS a W in it.
another question, i saw an ad for passbooks in the chief, is it worth the $22.99 for the book plus $5 for shipping? i want to score as high as possible and get hired as soon as possible.
any advice for the test or how to study or any good study guides will be greatly appreciated.
thanks.
tim
tim
future conductor
You and a few 4928349823 others in here do too! :)
good luck.
tim
the chief
277 broadway suite 1506
new york, ny 10007
(212)962-2690
i think thats the subscription information, not sure about back issues and the like.
heres the application: http://www.mta.info/nyct/hr/pdf/examapp.pdf
print that out.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/pdf/conductor.pdf
this is the notice of examination for the conductor exam. it has all the info you need. print this and the application out and you are set.
tim
Jimmy
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/hr/appexam.htm
The actual forms are Adobe PDF files, ready to print out ...
Wall Street on the 1 was how I got there myself when I worked at the corner of Beaver and Broad (heh, hey Beavis!) but then that's the way I was coming. A GOOD conductor will tell you how to get where you wanna go from where you ARE. But civil service tests ain't designed to see how smart you are (they'd tell you from WHAT train) ... they're designed to answer what was expected. I grew UP in the city and WORKED in the city for half my life. All over. I woulda gotten it wrong TOO. :)
Best of luck to ya ... still going for motors?
Peace,
ANDEE
The TA needs to get word out that the T/O and C/R have the ability to open EVERY door in event of emergency. Its a simple keyswitch (or regular switch on the 68/As). Barring electrical fault it will work.
And if the train loses 3rd rail power, those doors will unlock. Power is needed to keep them locked.
Robert
The problem is that the crew won't know of an emergency (or hazardous situation) aboard the train as there's no way to signal them other than pulling the emergency brake cord, which is usually the wrong thing to do. They need to add an emergency signal/intercom box to each car, as PATH has had for years and the TA has on the newer equipment.
Which leads me to a question. What is considered acceptable use of the intercom? Does it have to be a bona fide emergency? What about a general question that needs to be answered quickly? For instance, if I'm on a SB 2 (daytime) train that switches to the local track at 96th, I need to know right away if it's going to make local stops, since I get off at 86th. At least 90% of the time, the canned announcement plays in either case, without the C/R piping in to clarify or correct, so that's of no help. When I feel the train crossing the switch, I start running back through the train to the C/R's position, so I can jump out and quickly ask him when the doors open at 96th, but I'd rather not have to do that if I can use the intercom.
It isn't always possible to backtrack. This happened to me one weekend when all NB service from 72nd to 96th was on the express track, so I had to go back to 96th and try again. In fact, that time I didn't bother to ask the C/R, because all 2/3 trains were supposed to make local stops SB -- except that the crew on my train either hadn't read the GO or didn't care. When I questioned the C/R at 72nd, he claimed he knew of no such GO, but when I pointed out that I couldn't simply backtrack, he did seem just a bit apologetic.
About two months ago, I was on a NB 3 that switched to the local track at 72nd. The C/R made a crystal clear announcement (through the R-62 exterior speakers, too, which I thought were nonfunctional) that the train was running express to 96th, and that local passengers should wait on the platform for a local. So I got off, and the next train in was a 2. The canned announcement played, and some of the people who got off the 3 got on, but when I ran up to the C/R and asked him in person, he said that he was going express.
For some reason, C/R's on R-142's are loath to make any manual announcements at all, even to correct or clarify an automated announcement that's incorrect or misleading. IMO, whenever a train enters a station on a track it doesn't usually use (at that time of day), the C/R should be required to manually announce the next stop, whether express or local. (OTOH, C/R's are already required to correct the outdated announcements, but 95% of the time IME, they don't bother.)
Bear in mind that the more basic problem is this: the 75 footers behave that way because of their geometry - and nothing will change that. Their truck centres are pushed further under the car - farther from the ends of the cars than on the 60 and 51 footers. With railroad cars, any end of the car to the out side of the truck pivot will overhang to the outside of the turn - just like the front corner of a bus. Any part of the car between the truck centres (pivots) will overhang to the inside of the turn. That said, the further the truck is from the end of the car, the more will overhang toward the outside of any given turn. The trouble comes (or is more pronounced) when one car has entered the curvature while the next one hasn't; such as at a turnout. Once they are all in the turn together, they all look the same, and none is conspicuous. Once there is a transition, though, car-ends get misaligned - and severely so when the end of the car is that far away from the truck pivot.
Actually, all cars do this to a greater or lesser extent - including the 60 footers and the IRT. It's just that they don't have as dramatic a distance from the truck centre to the end of the car. The only way to absolutely eliminate that phenomenon would be to technically have the truck pivot at the extreme end of the car - practically impossible except in between cars as in the case of articulateds (hence the BMT D-types). Try this out on model trains - seriously.
Lastly, if you want to check the distances between the truck centres and the ends of cars, and truck centres themselves, a good resource for that data is the ubiquitous "New York City Subway Cars" by Greller. It has line drawings desribing the dimensions of each car (R types only). Examine the measurements: first check the IRT's, then the 60 footers, and last the 75 footers. This truck distance even explains the different rhythm the 75 footers have when they hit the track - as compared to the other cars.
R-32.
On the old fashioned cars, there were end vedtibules, you were stepping throught the diaghphram from one vestibule to another.
even the old subway cars had their storm doors recessed about one foot, giving you a solid place to stand, on one car of the other when moving from car to car.
The 75 footers do not have this, IIRC the storm doors are flush with the ends of the cars, with little or no place to stand outside of the car.
*Then* you take the corner at Canal Street, and you find out what rats like to eat.
Elias
You want to see really tight turns? Chicago El! As tight as the exaggerated curves you see on model trains...
As I recall, the curve between Wabash and Lake Street is extremely tight (and was the site of a serois derailment/accident), and then there is the nasty "S"-curve at the other end of Wabash, where Green Line trains head to the original "Alley El".
R-32.
**********************************************************************
Can someone please explain how these TEA bills work???
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#TEA
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Hey, if they tax the road traffic a little more fairly and use it to improve the railroads, all the better.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#Transport
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Hey, why build new? NYC has an "under-sports-arena" station that isn't doing them any good and it has made a policy of exporting its trash to the other parts of the country.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#Amtrak
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I think this was posted, but D/F is Boston based so this is their home turf.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#Spring
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While CT residents are all up in arms, I applaud CDoT for saving money and not giving up on trains that still have some useful life left in them. Shame the LIAR couldn't have the same forsight.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#ConnDOT
Well, I guess we should be grateful ConnDOT did anything at all. They were probably dragged kicking and screaming even to do this much.
"Shame the LIAR couldn't have the same forsight."
Shame on Jersey Mike for posting such drivel. LIRR made an excellent move to best serve riders. That's riders, Mike, remember? Customer service, comfort, a/c, eright? We're not talking about railfan windows here. :0)
If the TA had focused on rehabilitating an rebuilding Redbirds and never bought the R44-46-62-68-142 etc., then hypothetically they could have put all that money into renewing stations, ADA, or building part of the SAS. You'd have rusted-out crates, which nobody wants to ride, rolling on those tracks, but what the hell.
The M1s are stainless, so the carbodies don't rust, but that doesn't mean it pays to refurbish them for the next 25 years.
But then you have motors, compressors, suspensions, A/C, brakes, trucks, door mechanisms, PA systems; seats. And you have changing expectations of what kind of service people want.
I thought the R1-9 type cars were cute. I loved riding them as a child growing up in the Bronx. If you put enough effort into it, you could make those last 50 years, too - but nobody would want to ride them today except rail buffs.
Subtalk is full of railbuffs. What you read here is not typical of what 7 million people a day expect from subway service.
Actually, that's a great reason NOT to stick with older cars. ADA regulations are absolutely unimportant and are a complete waste of time and money, as long as you are not:
-In a wheelchair
-Have difficulty because of diabetes, heart or lung disease, injury to the legs
-Have cerebral palsy
-Blind
-have multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, inner ear disease
-Osteoporotic and prone to fractures
If you are in any of these categories, hey, SOL, right?
- Old.
- Really, really tired.
- Pushing a baby stroller.
- Carrying a lot of bags.
- Had a stroke lately.
- Developmentally disabled, affecting the muscles.
- On crutches (a big one, I see all the time)
- Have one of those little bikes (allowed on all commuter cars).
Funny how the disabled aren't "them" any more.
By definition it is not a problem; it is a responsibility the transit system has always had and was deficient in fulfilling. When people (like you) age or become sufficiently infirm so that driving becomes unsafe, the ADA-compliant transit system is there to transport. If you can afford it, you'll have your own limousine with a personal driver. Or you can use a taxi. If not, you use transit.
Put it another way: Paratransit services are more expensive to run than trains. A large % (but clearly not all) of paratransit trips can be shifted to transit, saving a lot of taxpayer money in the long haul.
In the United States, this is a basic human right by law. In Taiwan, perhaps, it is not. But this is not Taiwan.
Put it another way: Paratransit services are more expensive to run than trains. A large % (but clearly not all) of paratransit trips can be shifted to transit, saving a lot of taxpayer money in the long haul.
I think your entire paradigm for viewing the world is different from mine. In my view, most things should be funded by user fees and almost nothing is a fundamental right. Fundamental rights are defined in the Constitution: right to vote, right not to get killed, right to carry weapons. Everything else is extra, and you expect to pay for them.
You're a Democrat, perhaps. I'm a Economist.
AEM7
That's fine - but in practice, you are at odds with the federal statutes and a lot of Supreme Court decisions. Good luck getting all of that reversed. A lot of people will not vote with you here.
"Fundamental rights are defined in the Constitution: right to vote, right not to get killed, right to carry weapons."
Try again on two points: The Constitution does not guarantee your right not to get killed: we have mandatory draft registration which could get you killed in the army were the draft to be resurrected, and the state has the right to execute you for certain defined crimes.
The Constitution's Second Amendment allows states to constitute militias; the Supreme Court has ruled on more than one occasion that the Second Amendment does NOT guarantee you the right to carry a weapon yourself. Unless you can change the wording of the Amendment to remove what you presumably consider to be its unwanted opening phrase, (the one before the comma) or get the Supreme Court to reverse itself, you're out of luck. Again, there will be lots of people who would oppose such an effort.
"You're a Democrat, perhaps. I'm a Economist."
I'm an independent pragmatist.
... as they have done on many occasions, most recently w.r.t. abortion(?)
Sometimes I think the whole U.S. political scene is just a circus ring, especially in Washington D.C.. Seems to me that at the end of the day money ($) talks, and right now the ADA lobby has more money than the transit lobby (a sad state of affairs).
AEM7
The transit lobby does not oppose the ADA lobby.
Of course you could exten your world view this way:
Adolf Hitler advocated that getting rid of the mentally or physically infirm would help Germany grow strong and unburden society of taking care of the weak.
In this country, like-minded people to the Nazis would take exception to an Asian man doing anything except menial labor for slave wages, on the grounds that the ethnic or genetic purity of the country is wrecked otherwise.
Of course, Japan held that view near and dear (and there is still that element in the culture, unfortunately).
I like the law the way it is...
They knew from the beginning that there was a gray area in between, including the common defense, common grazing areas, churches, civic buildings and a lot of other REALLY EXPENSIVE things that COMMUNITIES had to pull together and pay for. With TAXES. Things like ROADS, which they were getting a little sick of all those nasty tollkeepers ripping them off for, so they set up the first village highways.
If we're going to have real, competetive public transportation, it has to be better than driving. Carmakers don't make SUV's that Granny can't squeeze into. Why should Kawasaki?
Evidently, they make cars that blind people cannot drive, so that's why Kawasaki is left to fend for itself installing annoying beeping devices that says the doors are closing, little braille dots on all the signs that collect dust, and a whole host of other things...
If ADA compliance can be applied to transit, they can be applied to the highways. Whatever happened to the Intelligent Vehicle-Highway System that was supposed to allow blind people to drive by wire, and non-blind people to drive both more fuel efficiently and read papers while driving?
AEM7
Well, I can answer at least one of those questions.
In 1936 Charles Pogue invented a carbeurator which preheated fuel to encourage more efficient combustion. Trouble was, a smaller amount of fuel exploding produced less energy. Less energy meantlower acceleration. The car could achieve 60 or 100 mpg fuel economy, but had all the vigor of a garden snail.
What do you suppose that product's elasticity of demand would be? My guess is, not very elastic.
What do you suppose that product's elasticity of demand would be? My guess is, not very elastic.
Seems to me that the public has voted with their dollars, and decided that to allow blind people to drive is not in their interest, and therefore refused to fund the IVHS demonstration program. It is also possible that many passengers do not care whether blind people can ride transit or not. So what about we set up a price differential. When you go buy your Metrocard, you can buy one with ADA contribution and one without. All the enhancement would be ADA compliant, but you would only pay for the ADA portion if you elect to buy an ADA contribution Metrocard. Let's see if the fully-attributed ADA-compliance costs can compete with the non-ADA-compliant transit system, in the view of its riders...
AEM7
This is where ideas of social justice come into play. Yes, we want an open free economy. Yes we want choices. But the US does not run on purely Libertarian principles. It is a mercantilist society - it sits neither on the purely free market end, nor on the "command economy" (an oxymoron, obviously) model.
I'm closer to thye center position; you're sitting out at the end.
Re: the ADA-enhanced Metrocard, if the American public really believed in the kind of ideologue you are talking about (i.e. they actively want to look after the weaker people), then you might see that everyone buys ADA-enhanced Metrocard and the price of that drop to an extent that the prices become very similar (you'd have to load the administrative costs of the non-ADA versions on the non-ADA riders only).
I suspect if you tried this (hypothetical) experiment, you'd see that everyone buys non-ADA. America is just not as "progressive" (or whatever you call it) as idealogists would like. If even 50% of the population bought the ADA-Metrocards, I think I would buy one too. But the USA is simply not there yet.
In Sweden, or Norway, if you try this experiment, you might actually see something like 75% of people buy the ADA-compliant versions.
AEM7
There are some parallels to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s. Activists pushed the idea that a black man should be afforded equal opportunity to a white man. The US matured over the next 4 decades, and we are in a better place now. This is an acceptable sequence of events.
The same is true of the ADA law. Even if many people aren't "ready" yet (and I disagree with you here), it is moral ad ethical and just, and will be accepted the same way given time.
It is economically good too: In the long run, the contributions of the disabled to our society, in literature, the sciences, engineering, math, flower growing or whatever you like, will far outweigh the financial investment we give in the form of ADA access. In the long run, ADA is a good investment.
Okay, I agree with you there; I have no problem with the idea that black and white people should be treated equally, and evaluated on metrics that are (allegedly) free of gender/racial bias.
On the topic of ADA-compliance and contribution of mobility-impaired people, I'd prefer to take a 'wait and see' approach, until it is firmly established by societal consensus that trying to retro-fit a system outside its design spec is a good thing. If there is societal consensus, we'll soon see M-8's that have 1+2 seating, giving rise to seats that are big enough for the biggest bums and aisle that is wide enough for the widest wheelchairs. Until then, I prefer to sit in a big seat and have a narrow corridor. But I speak only for myself.
AEM7
This is why the PUBLIC agrees to get together and pass a law that there should be cheap little ding-dongs and dusty braille dots. They get produced by the bucketload so they cost almost nothing, the blind lobby all screamed and yelled until Congress wrote the law to intall them at the exact height where the blind could find them (trust me, I watched the ADA get written); and Kawasaki knows that both they and Budd, in St.Louis, New York, and Boise all have to install the same little dots and ding-dongs. It's as close to a cheap win-win as you can get.
Putit another way: If you wanted to repeal ADA, and the 1974 law that required handicapped accessibility in transit (this is why transit would have to be compliant even without ADA), who would vote for that repeal? Your total votes in Congress today would be no more than the fingers of one hand.
The LIRR did the right thing in getting M7s, but scrapping the M1s versus finding new homes for them either overseas or on the SIR was an error in judgment. However, the MTA has deeper pockets than the CDOT, seemingly…
As for ConnDOT, I’m rather surprised that they were not tempted to go the NJ Transit route and go with electric-locomotive-hauled push-pull trains. Certainly, it’d be rather cheaper in the long run to get Shoreliner IIIs and have EP-6s haul them around (the identity of the EP-6 left to the imagination—I myself imagine ALP-46s converted to additionally operate from third-rail, but not wearing garish McGinnis paint schemes).
Upgrading M2, M4 and M6 EMUs to meet current FRA standards will certainly require a few things—among them, the elimination of the much-beloved “railfan window” in favor of the full-width cab (sorry Charlie)…and perhaps a few other things ought to be added to make them more flexible, such as low-platform boarding plus 25kV capability (thinking automatic transformer-tap changing on the fly) so that some trainsets can be diverted to provide electric Shore Line East operations…certainly, the new FRA buff-strength regulations will have these MUs looking nothing like their former selves on the head- and tail-ends. Time will indeed tell…
Maybe it's a flexibility issue. GCT is cramped, and if you want to split a train into 2 parts it's much easier to do with current equipment. This way they can split trains so that they don't run a full 10 car train middays and evenings.
and perhaps a few other things ought to be added to make them more flexible, such as low-platform boarding plus 25kV capability (thinking automatic transformer-tap changing on the fly) so that some trainsets can be diverted to provide electric Shore Line East operations…
Passenger volume on the Shore Line is going to be dwarfed by a factor of 20 or more to 1 by traffic west of New Haven in all our lifetimes. Doesn't make sense to do anything massive just to accommodate it.
Passenger volume on the Shore Line is going to be dwarfed by a factor of 20 or more to 1 by traffic west of New Haven in all our lifetimes. Doesn't make sense to do anything massive just to accommodate it
The rebuild in and of itself is going to be a massive project—adding items like that to the rebuild will not make it any more massive. Not to mention that “passenger volume estimates” are often underestimated—add destinations beyond New Haven (or even Stamford) and more passengers will take interest.
And back to my point about flexibility—there is only so far down the line that a Geep (diesel under wires!) plus de-engined SPVs can go…and it sure cannot go into GCT nor clear some of the low clearances further west. Not to mention that if you can replace those trainsets with some MU sets, the Geep/SPV trainsets could then become available for the proposed New Haven-Hartford service (and thus eliminating one excuse)…
Rebuilds don't need need to be upgraded to meet current FRA standards like you described
Yes they do. Consider how NJ Transit’s Comet III cab cars are slated to be rebuilt into trailer cars—NJT had no wish to spend extra money to upgrade them to meet current FRA standards. Not to mention whatever dilemmas surround the planned second rebuilding of Arrow III MUs, which would require elimination of cab doors etc. and possibly necessitate turning them into married four-car units.
The ConnDOT MUs will face the same ordeals during their rebuild. In the long run, it may not be saving money. Note the quote from Harry Harris, ConnDOT’s public transportation chief: “Eventually we will have to replace the fleet…We are taking a real hard look as for which direction we should take for the next generation.” If ConnDOT had as deep of pockets as the MTA, then we would be seeing the advent of the M8.
Rebuilds cannot be “grandfathered”—they have to meet current standards.
A 20 year delay in buying x new cars is money saved permanently. It's debt that has to be issued and paid off 20 years later. Only if the operations cost plus annual interest expense of refurbishment of the old cars exceeds the operations cost plus annual interest expense of buying new cars is refurbishing more costly. And you can do a LOT od extra maintenance with the saved interest expense.
First, recall that the maintenance and repair expense of new cars is affected by warranties offered by manufacturers. I will assume that this factor is already accounted for in your statement. The effect of this canbe averaged over the expected life of the new cars.
You missed one other, though: liability risk expense.
SEPTA could have continued refurbishing the Budd M3 ("Almond Joy" to Subtalkers and other buffs) cars on the Market-Frankford Line, and even added some form of air conditioning - or not. It might have been less expensive than buying new cars from Adtranz. But when a motor dropped out of one and the car swung across a switch, a tunnel pillar virtually cut the car in half, killing a woman passenger and injuring others. (I believe SEPTA, which is self-insured, paid a settlement in the case.) In the aftermath, it became clear that such a strategy was untenable.
So, let's revisit your formula: "Only if the operations cost plus annual interest expense of refurbishment plus liability insurance of the old cars exceeds the operations cost plus annual interest expense and liability insurance of buying new cars is refurbishing more costly."
My main point was that the interest expense of new cars, relative to the interest expense of refurbishment, is so massive that unless something major comes into the equation refurbishment will be cheaper.
Obviously if refurbishment results in unreliable or dangerous equipment it's not a good idea.
Connecticut’s DOT is preparing to repair – outright refurbish – dozens of aluminum power coaches
They are not going to rebuild them, just refurbish them. This is the same thing SEPTA did with the Silverliner IV's. So long 80's red and blue seats, hello nice comtemporary styling and more comfortable seats. If they really want to splurge they can install a better PA system or LCD destination signs.
The 1975 trainsets would then exceed their intended service life by some three years…
BTW, the M-2' date from 1972.
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Hmm, I wonder if the NYCS is dragging the rest of the country down? I mean all of the other systems I know are clean and fast and in good repair. :-)
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#ASCE
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Hmmm, looks like CSX managed to pull another buzz-word out of its ass. Too bad they can't focus on running a railroad.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#Atlanta
Mark
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Looks like CP learned that you can't schedule your trains when all your interchange traffic is still run as extras at times that would give some of the best random number generators a run for their money.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#Schedule
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This is just wierd. Wacky Canadians. Well, at least its better than in our country where NS and CSX is trying to gets its non-conrail-division employees and officers to stop using ethnic slurs.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#CN
Mark
Yes, this is an oddball turn of events. At first glance, I thought that Canadian National Railways was attempting to prohibit VIA from using the name “Canadian” for its transcontinental train that used to operate on Canadian Pacific tracks but now runs on “see-enn” rails…
To be sure, you won’t be seeing the Canadian Pacific Railway attempting to turn their entire name into “see-pee” by contrast :-P
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Good arguements, use it on your heather, non-believer friends.
http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df09292003.shtml#An
SNCF’s annual funding needs range from €1.5 billion (about $1.76 billion) to €2 billion (about $2.34 billion). That is excluding the expense of building LGVs, which goes into the €4-5 billion range per new line. Lots of money for what amounts to less than 1,000 route miles of intercity high-speed running plus other rail operations—compare Amtrak’s 22,000 miles of operations around the USA, and the funding disparity really becomes quite glaring…further, neither SNCF nor infrastructure owner RRF are required to be “for-profit” as Amtrak was/is…
For “RRF” read RFF instead.
Also, for a bit of light reading, here’s RFF’s 2001 Annual Report (in PDF format)…which certainly shows the heavy public expenditure on railroads that France continues to engage in, to the USA’s chagrin (or ought to be at least).
My prediction is ALL of us will be long dead and buried before any third track is built!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:52
A 8 car M1 was waiting on track 19. It accelerated alright it must have been going 70. full throttle. it took a stop at the harold stop en route to woodside. then at normal pace it reached murray hill.
thats all folks
I'm sure somebody down the road will be saying "You know, this M12 is definitely a step back from the M7 we had years ago."
If we take that to the future, then by the year 2040, we'll all be walking down the ROW because the commuter rail cars won't work at all.
Iwas just poking fun at you a little. Don't take it personally.8-)
Seriously: If you don't like the M7's ride or A/C, then MTA needs to hear from you. There is always room for improvement.
It will have so much Federally-mandated junk on it, I'm sure it will be.
Wait! I know that trainset. That trainset have 7060 and 7117(End Car) in it! I saw that trainset just last saturday at Woodside!
They tried pulling it forward one more time and they they started pulling it back into penn.
Poor job by the crew! the announcements didn't come till 10 mins after the ordeal began.
The motorman should have realized after 10 mins that he was not building any speed that he could keep.
The train was running 10 cars. 7060 was car 5. with cars 3-6 in service.
Note- it was the 12:21 AM train to port wash. Thats Fri. AM
http://www.nbc4.com/news/2529354/detail.html
----------------------------------------------------
Judge Considers Officers Actions "Foolish"
Lawsuit Against Policeman Dismissed
POSTED: 7:55 a.m. EDT October 3, 2003
WASHINGTON -- A federal judge called a Metro Transit Police officer's actions foolish, but not illegal.
That's what the judge's had to say about a Metro Transit Police officer who handcuffed and arrested a 12-year-old girl for eating a french fry in the Tenleytown Metro station.
The girl's mother, Tracy Hedgepeth, claimed that Officer Jason Fazenbaker illegally searched Ansche Hedgepeth's backpack and treated her unfairly during the October 2000 arrest.
The arrest drew national attention and sparked widespread criticism that the transit police force had gone too far.
Although the judge said Metro acted within the law, he still called the arrest humiliating and demeaning.
Metro has since changed its rules to allow minors to receive citations.
---------------------------------------------------
Thumbs Up? Where?
And don't get me started on their "drinking through a straw" policy...
Did WMATA brass intend for the regulations to be interpreted this way, so the officer would have been in trouble if he didn't handcuff her? Or was the officer just an idiot?
As the judge said, the officer was well in his right to do what he did. Just because it was "foolish" doesn't make it wrong.
"At the time of the arrest, Metro police maintained that D.C. law allowed them to issue citations of up to $300 to adults caught eating in the Metro but required that minors be arrested and taken into custody. Police seized Ansche's jacket and backpack, removed her shoelaces and transported her to the District's juvenile processing center, where the crying girl was fingerprinted and held for three hours."
Too bad the officers could not be charged with child abuse - because thats what this amounts to!!
Gee, another person who believes a juvenile delinquent over an officer of the law!!
It doesn't look like the police disputed the facts of the incident in court.
*The unjust law is that the girl had to be taken into custody, not that she wasn't allowed to eat.
So what is it? The more french fries you have, the stiffer the punishment? If youre eating a hamburger, do you go in and get a cavity search or something?
I mentioned it was a bag of fries because the media was all out in saying she was eating ONE and ONLY one French Fry when the cops when all haywire and cuffed her. THat was not the facts, she refused to comply with the officer's orders and in my opinion she got what she deserved. The judge even ruled the officer was well within the law to do what he did.
Yes, it makes it wrong. It just doesn't make it illegal.
An adult can accept a ticket on his own recoginsance and go on his way.
A Juvenile is unable to do this, any contact with law enforcement must involve the parents. That is the Juvenile must be detained until the parents can be brought into the situation.
Surely the officer did not *want* to arrest the gir for eating her frenchfries. What he wanted is what he asked her to do, to get rid of the frenchfries. She gave him sauce and his options became to ignore her or to process her. To 'process her' he *had* to arrest her.
The delays or humiliations once arrested were not of the officer's making.
The facts as we have them say nothing of the sort of approach used by the officer in his initial contact with the girl: Was it friendly or confrontational?
"Hello, you know, you cannot eat food on the subway system. Can I ask you to throw those away?"
"Well, look, if you were an adult, I could give you a ticket, but I am not allowed to give a minor a ticket, so if you do not throw them away, I'll have to bring you to the police station and call your parents."
Elias
But I understand that has already changed.
NO! A juvenile is simply not ALLOWED to do this because of a law passed by a legislative body he/she cannot vote for.
Back in the old days, if you sassed a cop and were old enough to get slapped around, that usually took care of the situation - and I'd imagine that were it not for the so-called "sensibilities" of today, if the girl actually DID sass the cop, the cop would have taken the "freedom fries" out of her hand, thrown it in a trash can and began a lecture. Nowadays, I suppose there was no other option other than to follow procedure and drag her off with the old axiom, "get in the car Johnny" ...
Whatever happened here though, there's got to be more to the story than we've heard. Then again, if the cop had time for a food violation, then Washingtonians should be mighty proud of their low crime rate. :)
It is absolutly correct that any official action involving a minor must be reffered to the parents.
Look at it from the parent's point of view: you damn well WANT to know if your child has gotten into trouble. And if it was for something stupid, then the parent (and/or his or her lawyer) needs to be the one to hastle the cops, not the kid.
Elias
Before this case three years ago (2000) I have never heard of anything like it , nor anythign since.
I would like to knwo what else fuels your "hatred" towards WMATA? Do you even use the system?
There are remains of 21st Century NYC in the world of the Eloi in the 2002 remake of "The Time Machine" (directed by Simon Wells).
A large proletariat of London workers who spend most of their time underground, or in buildings, is an important part of the sociology of the novel, "The Time Machine", and is an important part of Wells' explanation of how the world of the Eloi and Morlocks came to be.
This is getting way off topic, but this is also a plot element of "The Cage", the original Star Trek pilot, with the Talosians finding life underground to be limited, and developing their mental powers as a result. From Weena, to Veena, on SubTalk !
I must admit I had no clue the Myrtle Ave. el was closing for good even though I was still a regular Saturday commuter to Brooklyn at the time.
We had to improvise our trips to the city at that time because Intercity Bus Company was on strike and the Northeast Coach Lines bus we normally took wasn't running. I think my father drove us one way, then we hoofed it back home ourselves. On one occasion we took PATH from 33rd St. to Newark, changing trains along the way, and took a Newark-to-Butler bus home. It took 90 minutes to cover the 18-mile trip and it also marked the only time I've ever ridden on PATH. The following week we took a Lakeland bus from Port Authority to Lincoln Park. It was actually a quick ride because that bus stayed on US 46 almost all the way to Lincoln Park.
But not on the last train at night driven by our own Bigedirtman, I left during the afternoon.Here is the souvenir seat I STOLE from the Q-Car that day!!
Click Here to see the Newsday article about it
(Do you still have the seat ?)
I was there for the last ride.
Bill "Newkirk"
Just like that map from the HBLR train I have.
The TA stated to have operated 30 tph on the downtown local track and 29 tph on the uptown local in June 1954, track while switching CC locals to Bway-Lafayette and terminating D expresses at Hudson Terminal.
The BOT tried to increase both the E and F to 17 tph in late 1949, while not decreasing service on ohter lines. I don't have any official documentation on how well this worked. This did occur after the C was eliminated and its trains were added to the D. That would have meant that there were 32 tph on the 6th Ave local tracks - with routing similar to that in August 1954. Also the TA went to 11 car E's and F's in 1955 for an effective 5% service increase on the 6th Ave local - with both D's and F's operating on the 6th Ave local tracks.
As to possibility, as opposed to actual experience, the nominal capacity is 40 tph. The problem is terminal capacity.
What ever happened to the whole scheme, anyway?
None of the above.
Didn't the TA state that the system could, in theory, let trains get within a few feet of each other?
The communication timeouts permitted under CBTC translate to around 50-100 feet, which is around a block length at station approaches. So the minimum spacing under CBTC would be about the same as it currently is.
I can't measure this, but I am convinced from my observations that the current minimum spacing between trains at one place where it is very visible, namely north of Union Square on the southbound 4/5, is many hundreds of feet. If a train is in the station, the follower is never allowed particularly close, even at crawling speed. I can't tell you if it's 250 feet or 500, but it's absolutely not 100.
Also, if a CBTC comms timeout is measured in seconds, then at low speeds that will translate to very few feet. Say it's 5 seconds. Then if the train is crawling along at 5 feet per second, it could approach to within 25 feet plus any added safety margin required.
CBTC is not required to limit a train's speed when it is within 50 or 25 feet of a hazard. This can be done with a block system and timers. It is done at stations that have diverging switches at the end of platforms. The train's entrance into the station will be governed by timers, if that switch is set is not set for a straight route. In these cases the block lengths are quite short - even less than 50 feet - see Lex 138th St downtown platform - especially during the am rush hour when the switch is active.
The strategy should be to keep the switch for a straight route and only switch to the correct lineup, once the train has stopped within the station. The tower should then go back to the straight route as soon as the train has cleared the interlocking. This is fairly difficult to achieve when the tower is not within sight distance of the train.
The germane question is how often a train should be within 500 feet of a hazard - namely its leader. The answer is it should not with uniform headways down to 90 seconds and dwell times of 30 seconds. So, while CBTC can duplicate at all times the best behavior of a conventional block system in this regard, it should not be necessary to approach a train in normal operations.
The next question is how much time would be saved by having a CBTC equivalent of keying by. The answer is none. Suppose the leader starts up again and behaves normally. It will come to another station. The follower can try to follow at low speed and distance. It will be stopped at the next station. Its entrance will be limited by the leader's braking rate into the station, the leader's dwell time in the station and the leader's acceleration out of the station - i.e. the minimum headway of 90 seconds. OTOH, suppose the follower remained 500 feet behind the leader and waited 79 seconds until after the leader started moving at normal speed. [79 = 90 - 500 ft /(45 ft/sec)]. The follower would have proceeded at normal speed and entered the next station 90 seconds after the leader entered the same station. It would have entered at exactly the same time it would have had it tried to follow at a low speed. One can use mathematical induction to show that the same applies when there are many trains waiting behind a single train.
So that begs the question: Is some of what you're proposing impractical (my opinion: yes); or is it also that TA managers would find it difficult to work with someone who thinks of them purely as incompetent and corrupt boobs who should be thrown in jail and made to pay back the last 20 years of their salary (my opinion: yes)?
As for me, I think I'm open-minded enough to see how CBTC works out on the L train.
Would you mind quantifying that?
The point is not that a fixed block system could not possibly do this, although I maintain that it is likely a CBTC system operating at its very best will be superior to a fixed-block system at its very best. It is that CBTC can do this while providing better flexibility and lower cost.
One thing is for sure: If you decide to ignore the TA's trial of CBTC, then you need not worry about empirical data fouling your thought experiment.
Which level of service should be used as the baseline? The current 15 tph, 24 tph that was operated by the BOT in August 1949 and the TA in June 1954 or 32 tph which both the BOT or TA stated to be the line's capacity?
N.B. current peak hour service levels allow only 3.6 sq ft/passenger on the 14th St Line which is less than the 4.1 sq ft/passenger on the downtown Lex Ave Express. So, duplicating current service levels is really a non-starter for a "success criterion".
This is entirely irrelevant. The premise is that CBTC will be less expensive to operate than fixed block regardless of the level of service selected. I would be interested to know if the savings from use of CBTC are greater at higher levels of service, stay the same, or become more marginal.
"So, duplicating current service levels is really a non-starter for a "success criterion"."
Your statement is false, as I have just shown.
There are also no cost criteria in the NYCT contract either.
The prospects for cost reduction do not look good. NYCT has let itself be painted into a proprietary system, with only a single supplier - Siemens. One of the follower suppliers has dropped out, when the TA permitted Siemens to use a proprietary DCS, as opposed to the third party DCS that was used to test feasibility during the trials.
"One of the follower suppliers has dropped out, when the TA permitted Siemens to use a proprietary DCS, as opposed to the third party DCS that was used to test feasibility during the trials."
Are there advantages to Siemen's DCS? In my experience being involved in software, there are indeed downsides to proprietary platforms. But they often have advantages. The question is whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
An example using home stereo equipment: Bose builds a beautiful home system with tiny wireless speakers and a powered subwoofer, which truly fills a living room or family room with great sound, and has nifty options. It will even plug into your TV and accept a turntable's input for vinyl records. It comes with a nice warranty and attractive financing options.
It costs $3,000.00 A major downside is that (somebody correct me if I am wrong) Bose components only work with other Bose components. Want a different receiver or subwoofer? Fuggedaboutit.
To some people, the downside outweighs the pluses. That's fine.
On the other hand, somebody likes the miniature speakers and portable gear and decides nobody else makes that sort of thing to his likes. So the advantages outweigh the disadvantages to that customer.
I have read the RFP. It contained no reference to any service level preformance criteria.
None of the technical papers presented by NYCT regarding the CBTC project has ever mentioned any service level performance criteria.
I have mentioned the lack of service level performance criteria many times in this forum. I had an exchange of posts on this board with a TA employee who is usually quick to point up obscure contract references, he was not able to point out any service level performance criteria in the contract.
Are there advantages to Siemen's DCS? In my experience being involved in software, there are indeed downsides to proprietary platforms. But they often have advantages. The question is whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
Your statement assumes that there are criteria by which one can measure relative advantages and disadvantages. Your previous post mentioned only a cost criterion. What's your professional experience with a proprietary vs. non-proprietary system on the basis of cost?
BTW, Siemens won the NYCT contract on the basis of its reputation for Ligne 14 in Paris, even though that system used a leaky transmission line DCS and not the RF-DCS required by NYCT. The RATP has since chosen another vendor to retrofit Ligne 13 with an RF-CBTC system. The RATP has insisted on using an open architecture system.
Bose builds a beautiful home system...
I chose to take an audio acuity test before I contemplated investing in hi-fi. That test showed that I had a hearing deficiency that would not permit me to decern the differences between various hi-fi systems and components. I managed to save a great deal of money by not having a hi-fi.
However, I have had some contact with Bose. He was an EE Professor and I was an undergraduate more than 40 years ago. I took his course in linear circuits. I got an A.
Well, you've proven you can find small consolation in having a hearing loss. In your case, the money best stays in your wallet for other things. Good for you.
"Your statement assumes that there are criteria by which one can measure relative advantages and disadvantages. Your previous post mentioned only a cost criterion. "
It mentioned a cost criterion in the context of current system performance. If the cost criterion is satisfied by the CBTC trial, that alone would justify its deployment. There are already performance criterion well known to us. There is even an independent group, often critical of the TA, which measures it and provides methodology (the Straphangers' Campaign). You can easily look it up.
"However, I have had some contact with Bose. He was an EE Professor and I was an undergraduate more than 40 years ago. I took his course in linear circuits. I got an A."
You are fortunate to have had an instructor of his accomplishments.
I learned a few things from an interesting man. John Bernath, a coworker of mine, holds one of the patents for the original carbon dioxide laser invented by Hughes Aircraft Co. and introduced to the world in 1965. Did he have stories to tell. His opinion of graduating UCLA and USC physics undergraduates who applied for work at Hughes, where Bernath ran a large optics/laser laboratory and assembly area, was simple: "These guys don't know s--t when they graduate. I have to teach them real physics after they hire on."
Where did you say you went to school?
I wish I could have brought some of those guys to medical school with me. Medical school was fascinating and rewarding but I often sat in a room full of assholes who would stoop as low as they had to to gain some perceived or even illusory advantage in residency program placement.
I'm willing to learn from others. Even when som of them work for the MTA.
Some of them could teach you something too, if you'd let 'em. :0)
However, operating facilities at more than 70% of capacity would not be an item that I could learn from them.
Another item I could not learn from them is how to manage an open architecture contract. It would appear that the Canarsie Line's CBTC system will not become the worldwide standard that NYCT stated was a design objective, when the project started. In fact the Canarsie CBTC system will most likely become a proprietary dead-end that other operators and vendors will shun because of its high cost. Its service level performance is yet to be specified or tested.
I beg to differ. Your posts indicate otherwise. In fact, they convey much the same closed-minded arrogance that you accuse the TA of engaging in.
Even if you put clocks in all stations, the T/O and C/R would not know the optimal spacing strategy. With clocks, delay one train by 60 seconds and now all the followers are behind schedule and just want to move forward as fast as possible, rather than trying to space evenly. With sophisticated software (and I'm not saying this will be in NYCT's CBTC implementation or is even contemplated) you could tell the trains to reschedule themselves if necessary.
For example, if one train has irrevocably lost 60 seconds because of an obnoxious door holder, make the next one delay by 45 seconds, the following by 30, and the following by 15. That would not be easy to do with the current system.
How sophisticated is WMATA's system?
As for the door holding example this is a function of centralized command run amok. You could just put out on the radio that you have a stuck door or whatever and they tell the other trains within a range to stop and stay to avoid bunching. The problem is that control operators start asking for update every 10-30 seconds and asks for a ridiculous amount of information for the crew while they are trying to overcome the problem. This leads to even bigger delays or crews not calling things in because it is faster just to fix the problem.
What does help more than anything is the local recycle feature on the new trains but that has nothing to do with CBTC.
Also in your comparison should be the cost of making improvements without CBTC. A platform C/R at Bedford and Lorimer in the AM would do wonders to equalize headways.
The current policy of all putins at Canarsie kills the line every day and CBTC has nothing to do with that.
A headway timer at each station, as described in my post to Mr. AIM, would do even better.
The difficult to solve problem is when people run slow for what ever reason. The bottleneck becomes worse and worse as the passengers line up at every station. Unless you will let the crews use discretion. If the trains are 4 minutes apart and the last train clock was at 8 min do you let the train take skips until the clock reads say 5 min? Actually that would solve MANY problems real cheap and OTOH David Greenberg would have a heart attack.
That's called Train Supervision as opposed to Train Control. There are two fairly simple solutions used by transit operators that do operate in the 40 tph range to insure uniform headways.
The Moscow system works as follows. There is a timer placed in each station. The timer is reset when a train leaves the station, so that it always shows how much time has elapsed since the last train left the station. Suppose headways are every 90 seconds, then all the crew has to know is to leave when the timer reads 90.
The Paris system works slightly differently. There is a clock in each station that displays only minutes and seconds. However the clock does not show actual time. The clock's reading at each station is offset by the amount of time that it is supposed to take a train to reach it from the beginning of the line. So, if a train were scheduled to leave a terminal at 13:05:23, then the crew would know to leave each station when the that station's clock read 05:23.
Each system has its strengths and weaknesses. The Paris system requires slightly more complex electronics and planning but provides the ability to use it in the NYCT environment of merges and provides a mechanism for synchronization between branches.
if one train has irrevocably lost 60 seconds...
This system does correct for individual delays of the type you described. Clearly, such corrections would be limited by the amount of spare dwell time that would be alloted, when the schedules were made.
Peace,
ANDEE
Might we agree that the TA's RFQ's did not specify the "right" equipment.
By theway, did you put in your application to be police commissioner? I'm sure Ray Kelly will be grateful you're ready to reform his incompetent dept. in addition to working as chairman of the MTA.
Have you ever tried to report a petty crime that did not involve an attack on your person? I've tried twice and been rebuffed both times during my initial contact with the NYPD. One involved corporate identity theft and the other involved credit card fraud. The NYPD was unwilling to accept a formal complaint in either case.
Channel 5 had a "news" feature within the past few weeks entitled "driving while black". One of their producers, who is black, drove around Nassau County during early morning hours with a hidden camera. He was stopped and handcuffed for over an hour.
Channel 5 went to the Nassau County Police Chief with the video. The chief said that they would definitely investigate this incident. He also stated that what was on the video was not normal practice. The chief further stated that fewer than 10 complaints against Nassau County Police had been filed in all of the previous year.
Channel 5 decided to do something novel. The same black producer, equipped with a hidden camera, tried to file a complaint the next week. The NCPD refused to take a complaint. The producer tried 6 different precincts. He was told incorrectly that he would have to come back during business hours and speak to a "supervisor". One cop at the desk asked him if he had any outstanding warrants.
Those 10-odd complainants must have had a lot of perserverance.
At least three times, though a couple of these crimes were not against me. I found a friendly reception and was treated with the utmost consideration. I also requested assistance for serious threats against a friend and found that officers responded to my requests promptly and professionally.
In another case, the Philadelphia police assisted me with a credit card case. John Timoney, one of the architects of Compstat, ran the Dept. along similar lines. The biggest problem was the bank's refusal to cooperate with the police investigation. Detectives from the fraud unit wanted to check my records, and I authorized the bank to show the records. The bank refused, and said they would not even honor a subpoena.
"I've tried twice and been rebuffed both times during my initial contact with the NYPD."
Read the above. Also, did you treat the officers with some basic dignity, or did you accuse them of incompetence as soon as you walked in the door?
Channel 5 was right to investigate, and I have no doubt there is a problem with Nassau PD. As you know, the police union in Nassau is quite powerful. Officers can sit at a desk and be paid over $100,000 per year. Problems with this suburban department go beyond lack of cooperation with citizens.
That last sentence has always seemed inaccurate to me. I've now had a chance to do multiple observations of the downtown 4/5 approaching 14th St.
When a train is in the 14th St station, the follower is held back by a distance of four (yes, 4) signal blocks. These signal blocks vary in length, but they add up to at least 500 feet, probably considerably more. I can't be exact about the length of the blocks but they are not particularly short except for the last one. They encompass nearly all the distance from 21st St (south end of 23rd St station) to 16th St (north end of 14th St station).
This huge buffer zone definitely reduces capacity through the station. If a follower could approach the station at a steady 15 or 20 mph (which would still allow for a quick emergency stop) there would be much less time between when the leader starts to leave the station and when the follower can enter.
You don't know the interval between when the leader and follower left Grand Central. The signal system will display a green aspect at Grand Central 77 seconds after the leader has started leaving. It will display a yellow aspect 59 seconds after the leader starts to leave. So, the follower did not necessarily leave Grand Central 90 seconds (40 tph) or 100 seconds (36 tph) after its leader. It could have left considerably sooner. If it did leave sooner, then one would expect it would encounter problems when approaching the next station - Union Sq.
Consider Union Square. It takes 49 seconds from the time that a train starts until all signals clear (yellow within the station and green north of it). If a following train were at the rear of the platform (16th St), it would be able to enter the station. Where was this following train when this leader started to leave? If it were going at 30 mph it would have been 2200 feet north of 16th St. This would have placed the front of the follower around 25th St or at the north end of the 23rd St station. The follower would have been further north, if higher express speeds are assumed.
If we assume a maximum speed of 50 mph, then the stopping distance at 3 mph/sec is 613 feet. Assume a 50% safety margin to get 900 feet. So, while the leader is in Union Sq, the first red signal should occur 900 feet north of 16th St or between 19th and 20th Streets. This is close to your 21st St observation.
However, these signals should have started clearing, once the leader started leaving Union Sq. It would have taken the follower 29 seconds to travel from 2200 feet north of 16th St to 900 feet north of 16th St @ 30 mph. How far would the leader have travelled during this time? Assuming a 2 mph/sec acceleration it would have accelerated for 15 seconds to 30 mph and travelled at 30 mph for an additional 14 seconds. The total distance covered would be 960 feet. So the signal that you observed at 21st St should not hold the follower as both leader and follower advanced.
If a follower could approach the station at a steady 15 or 20 mph (which would still allow for a quick emergency stop) there would be much less time between when the leader starts to leave the station and when the follower can enter.
The important point is that the follower should not be so close as to require such slow movement. It is a result of not any supervision (adherence to schedule) during the entire run from the Bronx. This lack of supervision permits trains to leave stations earlier than they should. That's the TA's problem - not the present signal system.
...
The important point is that the follower should not be so close as to require such slow movement.
You make excellent arguments that NYCT's failure to manage train intervals reduces capacity. However, that was not the point I was addressing.
In a discussion of CBTC (higher up in this thread), you specifically gave as a reason why CBTC wasn't going to help with capacity that current signaling systems already allow as close a spacing as CBTC will allow. That statement seems to me to be flatly false, as demonstrated by my observations on the 4/5 train. Therefore I have my doubts about the rest of your CBTC argument, since it is based on a provably false assumption.
I'm sorry, I thought you were questioning whether your observation of trains being held at 21st St while a train was at Union Square was consistent with the assertion that a train could approach Union Sq at normal speed once the leader has cleared Union Sq. I think I've addressed that point to your satisfaction, even though it wasn't the point of your post.
If a follower could approach the station at a steady 15 or 20 mph (which would still allow for a quick emergency stop) there would be much less time between when the leader starts to leave the station and when the follower can enter.
There is such provision at both 125th and 59th Streets. The signal within the station goes from red to a 20 mph timer to yellow as opposed to the signal at Union Sq which goes only from red to yellow aspects.
In a discussion of CBTC (higher up in this thread), you specifically gave as a reason why CBTC wasn't going to help with capacity that current signaling systems already allow as close a spacing as CBTC will allow.
You may have taken that statement out of context. It was in answer to the question of using CBTC to implement keying-by. I indicated that CBTC communications delays would keep the minumum distace between stopped trains to between 50 to 100 feet. I also indicated that this was equivalent to the minimum block lengths currently within the system. So, if keying by were necessary, it could be implemented either by CBTC or by using a conventional block system with short blocks where it was needed.
I do know of at least one instance where 100 foot spacing between signals was used on mainline track in NYC. It was used to provide 700 foot spacing between trains and 66 tph operation. The 700 foot spacing was a weight restriction for the Brooklyn Bridge.
"So the minimum spacing under CBTC would be about the same as it currently is", not "the minimum spacing under CBTC would be about the same as it could be with current technology".
That's why I complained.
In the specific case of Union Square, I think there is some
funny business with the gap filler and a train order signal.
Dave B. may be able to elaborate.
At Union Square the blocks are probably shorter than 200'. My guess is 150'. And the the 4 reds preceding the station do NOT clear until the train ahead leaves the station.
Then they start to clear as the train gets further south.
Sorry, I don't know signal types.
I thought there was some interaction with the signals NORTH
of Union Square such that trains are held out until the gap
fillers have successfully retracted.
Accomplished at a far lower operating cost.
There is no basis for measuring a CBTC system using RF DCS because none currently exist. All current CBTC systems are using either an inductive loop or leaky transmission line DCS.
The hope (or hype) is that it will yield lower operating costs. However, the TA has opted for a proprietary RF-DCS.
You were the person who said that CBTC would be able to achieve the equivalent of a 50-100 foot block length at a much lower operating cost. What was the basis for your statement regarding operating cost?
You stated OPERATING cost - not capital cost. Replacement of electrical gear, lenses, etc. other than normal maintenence is not part of operating costs.
CBTC also has wayside equipment mostly associated with the DCS. Inductive loops and leaky transmission lines require equipment continuously along each track. They are more subject to environmental problems than the "electrical gear" associated with a block system because they cannot be sealed within a NEMA box or a conduit.
The RF-DCS requires equipment at only fixed locations not continuously along the track. The expectation is that such a system will be less costly to maintain. However, it has no operational history at this point. Also, as I and others have noted elsewhere, the TA's RF-DCS will be a one-of-a-kind proprietary product, using a proprietary protocol. The RF-DCS that the TA has opted to use was not tested during the test trials so there is no cost basis from the test data. Other systems that are building RF-DCS, most notably Paris' RATP, have rejected a propietary RF-DCS in favor of one that uses an open architecture and protocol.
Again, what is the basis for your assertion that the TA's CBTC will have much lower operating costs. Please be careful not to include capital costs.
You need to review your accounting. Routine replacement of perishable parts is an operating cost, not a capital expense. Capital costs would be major replacement substantially extending the life of the system.
You have not presented any cost data to show that the TA's proprietary system is any worse than an open architecture system. Why don't you ask the TA about this and post their answer here?
That was rarely necessary because trains seldom got that close to one another. It certainly wasn't necessary to maintain 34 tph.
Besides, the 30-34 tph was hardly the greatest service level at that time. That distiction belonged to the Third Ave El in August 1949, which ran 42 tph in the opposite direction according to the BOT. Not bad considering they had both merges and grade crossings.
The key is how quickly a train can move around 1000 feet from rest. The number of burned out motors is more important than lack of field shunting.
The rush hour was shorter you can see that on the old maps so by the time train got to the other end they could drop out and that was it and midday service was much less than it is now. More trains run now than before over the course of the whole day.
But "daytime" service, based on a large number of us "rush hour only" types, was slacked. 4 car trains too. You'd DO your round trip and you were done - that's why lines were such long runs back then to get you your 2x4 hours ... and you'd drop out when it didn't matter.
What you say though is absolutely how it all worked ... the conga line at 242 was a 9AM thing NB ... nobody CARED. Nobody was going there anyway. Same for 205th where some of the splits laid up and twiddled their thumbs until the clock ran out. Bedford crew room was ALWAYS a hoot, and unlike those "dominoes tables" down south, they had COLOR TV! (and KNEW how to use it) ... :)
Today's situation though was brought about by TWU *finally* getting rid of that human torment - 4 hours on, 6 hours off, 4 hours on, 10 hours off and work on the OTHER END of the system from where you lived. My reports were to Stillwell. I lived at 205th/Norwood. Lemme tell ya, that was HELL ... no WONDER the damned pick was open. My motor instructor told me (befriended because he was with the Arnines when they first ARRIVED!) that even a chit pick was better than sitting the bored ... well ... yeah, he was right, but I was a Pillsbury muffin on the return trip back from Bedford in the evening. Next stop ... let's go existential ... next stop is Lower Slobovia, change for Dogpatch Airlines to Neck Road. Having done it, I *congratulate* TWU for ending that literal slavery gig ... but what benefitted UMD and the rest of TWU - the elimination of "WAR" ... ("work as requested") ...
But it screwed up the railroad when the TA got civilized ... only way the OLD scheme worked was with split shifts and deadheads ... let's not do that again. :(
Why would you want to? There isn't demand for that level of trains on that piece of track. If you'd said the express track under Queens Blvd, it would have made more sense as a question.
Do all of those "nominal" ratings of maximum train frequency account for switching?
Wondering if any of you camera people have any more pics or info. I didn't check the forgotten ny site yet.
E-mail me for the photo if you'd like to see it.
Incognito
The White Plains Kid
Details Here
The MTA website has nothing on the #3 line being affected as well so how will #3 trains go through 96th st and 104th st tunnel when the #2 must do single tracking?
I seem to remember a similar GO in mid-2002. (I think that was when there were reports of R-26's running on the 2, but for some reason I couldn't get out there with a camera.)
But that also raises the possibility that all trains (including #2 ?????and #3????) will run local from 96th st to 72nd st or Times Square in both directions.
Sure will be fun to watch this, hundreds of people squeezing into two narrow staircases X 2 on the 96th st underpass. More room on the 94th st side but not by much.
-Stef
See the info for the R7 cars
I would attempt it myself, except that my last ride on the Myrtle el was May 1969, nowhere near the last day of service.
In MY case, it isn't hatred, it's DEPRESSION at how thoroughly scrooched they are. It's like an old truck you've had all your life. You hit the brakes to stop at a light, the chassis stops and the truck body rolls right off onto the ground. Such is the condition of the rustbuckets. :(
At least they gave many years of loyal service, years which included the deferred maintenance and graffiti eras. Not a bad accomplishment.
Man that was a low blow considering it wasn't (supposedly) 9749's fault.
But 3 years ago, last time I was on a bird, I was that concerned myself that if the car swung out any further and hit some steel, there'd just be a reddish colored CLOUD where it hit. :(
Freshman and sophomore years I always took the D from Bedford Park to get home from school at met Dad at work at 125th where we got the A the rest of the way.
Later sophomore his job moved downtonw so I started taking the 4 with buddies. Not bad, mostly 62s.
The first time I got a redbird going home was the last. I quickly went back to riding the D. :) The whole trip I was wondering if I'd make it to Fulton alive.
I'm already lining cars up for preservation.
-Stef
-Stef
A century of progress
Call for Valley rail line echoes from '05
Oct. 3, 2003 12:00 AM
The terminology is decidedly different. But visions of an "interurban electric road" in Phoenix raised all sorts of grand possibilities in 1905 - just as the Valley's soon-to-be-built light rail line does today.
In an editorial written 98 years ago (unearthed by a resident who sent it to Phoenix transit officials who, in turn, brought it to our attention) our sister paper, the now-defunct Phoenix Gazette, threw its support behind a transit plan by the Pacific Electric Co.
The company talked about a franchise to build and operate an electric streetcar line from Phoenix, past the Hole-in-the-Rock (Papago Park) and Ingleside (presumably Arcadia), "the point where the famous Arizona oranges grow," to Tempe and on into Mesa.
The editorial talked glowingly of the line's importance to future growth and new business opportunities:
"With the carrying out of this plan, and doubtless it will be carried out, if not in the near future at no very distant day, Phoenix would have the starter for what has made Los Angeles the great city it is today. Other lines would follow, not only to traverse the agricultural sections of the county, but to tap some of the nearing mining regions, such as the Cave Creek country."
Though the editorial was on point in stating Phoenix would grow "wonderfully in the next decade" - it could have said the next 10 decades - it missed the mark in predicting "she will be sure to have her interurban lines."
It's taken a few years - nearly 100, in fact - for an "interurban electric road" that will connect Valley cities. But big projects take time.
What's thrilling is that construction is scheduled to begin next year on the initial phase of the Phoenix-Tempe-Mesa-Glendale light rail system.
And it won't take another century to see how it all turns out.
Copyright 2003, azcentral.com
Mark
I'm not sure about how Phoenix is set up, there's a lot of articles comparing it to a future Orlando for some reason. I used to be quasi-against light-rail too and favored anything that commutes over long distances more. But the more I look at it(and hear what naysayers say), the more it makes sense to me if you can connect a lot of attractions on it. Especially with reverse commuting. Malls, business parks, attractions, etc. If you have a whole bunch of this on a highway, and the line follows this route, then it makes more sense to have all these stops, and it seems almost too logical.
I have a refrigeration bible in my house, I'll read that.
wayne
Is that the one that describes the Eucharist service using Freon?
Later on the 4 train between 161-YS and Fordham Road a (peddling)
Man on Horse came aboard singing Spanish Tunes and tipping his cowboy
hat to anyone who offput a $1 his way..... HAD to be the funniest shiznit
I done seen all week.
Also on that train, some of the high schoolers whom boarded
had found amusement in criss-crossing the between-car gates to make
the passage between cars impassable (attaching the bottom of the
storm door gate chain to the inappropriate opposite-car link holder)...
Being that this train was heading to Woodlawn to return south for
the rush hour, I took to adjusting and PROPERLY placing the gates
BACK into the proper (stub holder?).. thus restoring the between-cars
passage area to how it SHOULD be... done was my (good railfan) deed.
(I alienated a few geese watching me do this-- but I told myself it was 4 a safety measure).
I WON'T post car numbers... knowing the TA they'll wanna cook and fry the
crew for not checking their consist thoroughly (when the disalignment
was done DURING the trip, and not prior).
You're welcome, Woodlawn brahs!
Had that BEEN a redbird, I would have still done the same and even KISS
the bar after I got done (I'd even let you brahs PHOTOGRAPH me doing so).
I had to be back uptown by 3, so that explains why I didn't see the reported 3 consists
of redbirds which ran in the evening rush..
I'm hoping to score a redhead in my next two trips downtown... (I meant redbird). ;)
From the looks of it, does one suppose 1851-1900 will be assigned to the 1? Some cars currently on the 7 could be xferred to the 1, namely 1851-55, 1866-70, 1876-90. They could be exchanged for 1726-35, 1771-75, and 1816-25.
We shall see...
-Stef
Blurry indeed, sorry about that, here's a movie of him.
Right click, save target as...
The trumpet was just another performer, not related to him. In the beginning of the movie you can hear him mumbling some beat of some sort.
(Tho I coulda sworn the "poncho" was a solid color...)
The boidies are still mostly metal, but it was amusing spotting the irregular patches that had been painted over that wouldn't hold a magnet. Wouldn't mind an arnine though. Now that winter's coming on strong upstate, those things were nice and toasty warm.
Wayne
Note Changes
(2)
This is an East 180 Street bound 2 train.
(4)
This is a Brooklyn Bridge bound 4 local train.
This is a Bowling Green bound 4 express train.
This is a 125 Street bound 4 express train.
This is an Atlantic Avenue bound 4 express train.
(5)
This is an Eastchester bound 5.
This is a Mott Haven 149 Street-Grand Concourse bound 5 local train.
This is a Crown Heights bound 5 express train.
This is an Atlantic Avenue bound 5 express train.
(6)
This is a 125 Street bound 6 train.
(F)
This is a King Highway bound F train.
(L)
This is a Broadway Junction bound L train.
(1) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound 1 train.
This is a South Ferry bound 1 local train.
(1) Uptown
This is a Bronx bound 1 local train.
This is a Riverdale bound 1 train.
(2) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound 2 train.
This is an East 180 Street bound 2 train.
This is a Brooklyn bound 2 express train.
This is a Flatbush Avenue bound 2 train.
(2) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound 2 train.
This is a Bronx bound 2 express train.
This is a Wakefield bound 2 train.
(3) Downtown
This is a Brooklyn bound 3 express train.
This is a New Lots Avenue bound 3 train.
(3) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound 3 train.
This is a Harlem-148 Street bound 3 express train.
(4) Downtown
This is a Manhattan 4 train.
This is a Brooklyn Bridge bound 4 local train.
This is a Brooklyn bound 4 express train.
This is a Brooklyn bound 4 local train.
This is a Bowling Green bound 4 express train.
This is an Atlantic Avenue bound 4 express train.
This is a Crown Heights bound 4 express train.
This is a New Lots Avenue bound 4 local train.
(4) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound 4 express train.
This is a Manhattan bound 4 local train.
This is a 125 Street bound 4 express train.
This is a Bronx bound 4 express train.
This is a Bronx bound 4 local train.
This is a Woodlawn bound 4 train.
(5) Downtown
This is an East 180 Street bound 5 local train.
This is a Manhattan bound 5 train.
This is a Manhattan bound 5 local train.
This is a Manhattan bound 5 express train.
This is a Bowling Green bound 5 express train.
This is a Bowling Green bound 5 local train.
This is a Brooklyn bound 5 express train.
This is a Brooklyn bound 5 express train via the 7 Avenue Line.
This is an Atlantic Avenue bound 5 express train.
This is a Brooklyn College-Flatbush Avenue bound 5 express train.
This is a Crown Heights bound 5 express train.
This is an East 180 Street bound 5 train. (Old Announcement)
This is a Manhattan bound 5 train.(Old Announcement)
This is a Manhattan bound 5 express train.(Old Announcement)
This is a Bowling Green bound 5 express train.(Old Announcement)
This is a Brooklyn bound 5 express train.(Old Announcement)
This is a Flatbush Avenue bound 5 express train.(Old Announcement)
(5) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound 5 express train.
This is a Bronx bound 5 express train.
This is a Bronx bound 5 local train.
This is a Bronx bound 5 express train via the 7 Avenue Line.
This is an Eastchester bound 5 local train.
This is an Eastchester bound 5 express train.
This is a Nereid Avenue bound 5 express train.
This is an Eastchester bound 5.
This is a Mott Haven 149 Street-Grand Concourse bound 5 local train.
This is a Manhattan bound 5 express train. (Old Announcement)
This is a Bronx bound 5 express train.(Old Announcement)
This is an Eastchester bound 5 train.(Old Announcement)
This is an Eastchester bound 5 express train.(Old Announcement)
This is a Nereid Avenue bound 5 express train.(Old Announcement)
(6) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound 6 train.
This is a Manhattan bound 6 local train.
This is a Manhattan bound 6 express train.
This is a Brooklyn Bridge bound 6 train.
(6) Uptown
This is a 125 Street bound 6 train.
This is a Bronx bound 6 train.
This is a Bronx bound 6 local train.
This is a Parkchester bound 6 local train.
This is a Pelham Bay Park bound 6 train.
This is a Pelham Bay Park bound 6 express train.
(7) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound 7 train.
This is a Manhattan bound 7 local train.
This is a Manhattan bound 7 express train.
This is a Times Square bound 7 train.
(7) Uptown
This is a Queens bound 7 train.
This is a Flushing bound 7 train.
This is a Flushing bound 7 local train.
This is a Flushing bound 7 express train.
(9) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound 9 train.
This is a South Ferry bound 9 local train.
(9) Uptown
This is a Bronx bound 9 local train.
This is a Riverdale bound 9 train.
(A) Downtown
This is a Brooklyn bound A express train.
This is a Brooklyn bound A local train.
This is a Queens bound A express train.
This is a Queens bound A local train.
This is a Ozone Park bound A train.
This is a Far Rockaway bound A train.
This is a Rockaway Park bound A train.
(A) Uptown
This is a Brooklyn bound A train.
This is a Manhattan bound A express train.
This is a Mahattan bound A local train.
This is an Inwood bound A express train.
This is an Inwood bound A local train.
(B) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound B local train.
This is a Herald Square bound B local train.
(B) Uptown
This is a Harlem bound B local train.
This is a Bronx bound B local train.
This is a Bedford Park Boulevard bound B local train.
(C) Downtown
This is a Brooklyn bound C local train.
This is an Euclid Avenue bound C local train.
(C) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound C local train.
This is a Washington Heights bound C local train.
(D) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound D train.
This is a Manhattan bound D express train.
This is a Herald Square bound D express train.
(D) Uptown
This is a Bronx bound D express train.
This is a Norwood bound D train.
This is a Norwood bound D express train.
(E) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound E express train.
This is a MAnhattan bound E local train.
This is a World Trade Center bound E local train.
(E) Uptown
This is a Queens bound E local train.
This is a Jamaica bound E express train.
This is a Jamaica bound E local train.
(F) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound F express train.
This is a Brooklyn bound F local train.
This is a King Highway bound F train.
This is an Avenue X bound F train.
(F) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound F train.
This is a Queens bound F local train.
This is a Jamaica bound F express train.
(G) Downtown
This is a Brooklyn bound G train.
This is a Smith-9th Street bound G train.
(G) Uptown
This is a Queens bound G train.
This is a Court Square bound G train.
This is a Forest Hills bound G local train.
(J) Downtown
This is a Brooklyn bound J train.
This is a Manhattan bound J train.
This is a Manhattan bound J express train.
This is a Broad Street bound J express train.
This is a Broad Street bound J train.
This is a Chambers Street bound J train.
(J) Uptown
This is a Brooklyn bound J train.
This is a Brooklyn bound J express train.
This is a Queens bound J train.
This is a Jamaica bound J train.
This is a Jamaica bound J express train.
(L) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound L train.
This is an 8 Avenue bound L train.
(L) Uptown
This is a Brooklyn bound L train.
This is a Broadway Junction bound L train.
This is a Canarsie bound L train.
(M) Downtown
This is a Mrytle Avenue bound M train.
This is a Brooklyn bound M train.
This is a Manhattan bound M local train.
This is a Brooklyn bound M local train.
This is a 9 Avenue bound M local train.
This is a Bay Parkway bound M local train.
(M) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound M local train.
This is a Brooklyn bound M local train.
This is a Queens bound M local train.
This is a Middle Village-Metropolitan Avenue bound M train.
(N) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound N train.
This is a Brooklyn bound N local train.
This is a Gravesend bound N express train.
(N) Uptown
This is a Pacific Street bound N express train.
This is a Manhattan bound N express train.
This is a Queens bound N local train.
This is an Astoria bound N train.
(Q) Downtown
This is a Brooklyn bound (Q) express train.
This is a Brighton Beach bound (Q) local train.
(Q) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound (Q) local train.
This is a Midtown bound (Q) express train.
Downtown
This is a Brooklyn bound express train.
This is a Brighton Beach bound express train.
Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound express train.
This is a Midtown bound express train.
(R) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound R local train.
This is a Brooklyn bound R local train.
This is a Bay Ridge bound R local train.
(R) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound R local train.
This is a 36 Street bound R train.
This is a Queens bound R local train.
This is a Forest Hills bound R local train.
(V) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound V local train.
This is a Lower East Side bound V local train.
(V) Uptown
This is a Queens bound V local train.
This is a Forest Hills bound V local train.
(W) Downtown
This is a Manhattan bound W train.
This is a Brooklyn bound W express train.
This is a Brooklyn bound W local train via Lower Manhattan.
This is a Coney Island bound W express train.
This is a Coney Island bound W local train.
(W) Uptown
This is a Manhattan bound W express train.
This is a Manhattan bound W local train.
This is a Queens bound W express train.
This is a Queens bound W local train.
This is an Astoria bound train.
(Z) Downtown
This is a Brooklyn bound Z train.
This is a Mahattan bound Z express train.
This is a Broad Street bound Z express train.
(Z) Uptown
This is a Brooklyn bound Z express train.
This is a Queens bound Z express train.
This is a Jamaic bound Z train.
Shuttles
42 Street Shuttle
This is a Grand Central bound 42 Street Shuttle train.
This is a Times Square bound 42 Street Shuttle train.
Ozone Park Shuttle
This is a Queens bound Ozone Park Shuttle train.
This is an Ozone Park bound Ozone Park Shuttle train.
This is a Brooklyn bound Ozone Park Shuttle train.
This is an Euclid Avenue bound Ozone Park Shuttle train.
Rockaway Park Shuttle
This is a Rockaway Park bound Rockaway Park Shuttle train.
This is a Broad Channel bound Rockaway Shuttle.
Grand Street Shuttle
This is a Grand Street bound Grand Street Shuttle train.
This is a West 4 Street bound Grand Street SHuttle train.
Franklin Avenue Shuttle
This is a Frankln Avenue bound Franklin Avenue Shuttle train.
This is a Prospect Park bound Franklin Avenue Shuttle train.
Staten Island Railroad
This is a Tottenville bound Staten Island Railroad train.
This is a Ball Park bound Staten Island Railroad train.
This is a Saint George bound Staten Island Railroad train.
Did you have any luck finding web space to host your announcements?
By the way if anyone wants me to record announcements, I could in a few days after I get my new mp3 player from my uncle, which has voice recording capability.
I would have to test it out first to make sure it works properly.
I run my tape-recorder whenever I step on a bus/streetcar/subway car/train that looks like it could feature automated announcements, and so far the "announcements" folder on my PC takes up 4.28 GB of space and contains 8,515 files, 95% of which I have recorded myself (pulled the rest off the web).
I'm sure you can fill a Gigabyte of two with just NYC Subway announcements ;o)
This is a Manhattan bound 6 local train
do not exist.
I heard a conductor on the E train announce "This is an E train to Queens" as long as we were in Manhattan. He changed his announcements after we traversed the 53rd Street tunnel.
The F trains I board in the morning sometimes announce that it's a "Manhattanbound F train" and once it gets to Manhattan, it becomes a "Brooklynbound F train." It varies with the C/Rs, however.
(3)(Lenox Jerome connection possible versions)
This is a Manhattan bound 3 express train
This is a Bronx bound 3 express train
This is a Bronx bound 3 express train via the Lexington Avenue Line
This is a Bedford Park Boulevard bound 3 train
This is a Bedford Park Boulevard bound 3 express train
This is a Woodlawn bound 3 express train
This is a Woodlawn bound 3 train
(4)(Jerome express versions)
This is a Woodlawn bound 4 local train
This is a Woodlawn bound 4 express train
This is a 38th St Yard bound garbage train.
This is a Coney Island bound work train.
This is a Jamaica bound wash train.
This a 76th Street bound...
Service will begin officially Dec 6, but may actually start earlier.
Story in The Times-Picayune.
It's nice to have another streetcar down there. I wonder what they're doing with the busses, though. There was a nice bus lane down the middle of Canal Street that is now taken by the trolley tracks.
CG
Mark
How many years? Anything you saw moving on Canal Street during the ACS meeting in 1999 was the St Charles car on the loop or Riverfront cars moving between the shop and the Riverfront Line. The up-hill track wasn't built then.
The first test car to run to the end of the line was on Thursday Oct 2.
photos of Oct 2 test run courtesy of Edward J. Branley
Anyway, what kind of streetcars are they going to use, new LRVs or repros of the Perley-Thomas or the old cars themselves?
wayne
There's a lot of information about this project at the New Orleans RTA website. There's not as much information about the Canal Streetcar project as there used to be, but there's a lot about the plan to restore the the Desire Streetcar. This one might just really happen!
Mark
wayne
850 Branford Active restoration project
959 Chattanooga Choo Choo Apparently operates on a short line
836 Warehouse Pt Mostly restored, used in regular service
912 NC Trans Museum Stored dead
913 Orange Empire Unrestored
832 Arden Restored, used in service
952 SF Muni Operated on Market St
966 Seashore Operating at Lowell
I rode that one in the late 70s in Chattanooga.
Mark
I assume they were on their way to Coney Island, but it was quite a sight in rush hour. You should have seen how many people thought it was actually a real train and were waiting for the doors to open while it was stopped by a red signal in the station!
I think it was the first time I ever saw redbirds running coupled with R62As, though, of course, the train wasn't in revenue service.
and we didn't send out any today.
If it helps for all of you Redbird fans, the R26//R28/R29/R33/R36's will always be in better condition than the R44's ever were.
So at least the redbird lovers can go to any website and get a set of pictures showing the Redbirds at every point in their carears. Us R30 lovers have vivid memories and a few pictures contributed by Glenn Rowe(I apoligize if I spelled his name wrong, btw the last time I seen a R30 in revenue service the year was about 1990 on the C).
My Homepage
Umm... do you have any car numbers of these spontaneously combusting R-16 A/C units?
I was always puzzled by the fact that 6400-6499 were all delivered before any of the 6300's. I guess that means that the 6400's were a few months older than the 6300's.
This arrangement seemed sort of backwards at the time.
It is difficult to understand what might have happened almost fifty years ago.
Don't forget the 6800 R-16s with A/C ;)
I used to know a station agent and he had an interesting story of his token booth area at I think one of the stations along the L line some years back. There was a construction barricade next to the token booth (is that even a term anymore?). Anyway, first a crew came to paint the barricade. Minutes later a crew came to dismantle the barricade. After an arguement between the two crews, a call was made, and it was decided that the paint crew would paint the barricade that day, and the demolition crew would come back a few days later to dismantle the construction barricade. He couldn't help but laugh in his boith watching this whole lunacy unfold in front of him.
I challenge you to find me a photo of anything remotely that bad on the R-33's that ran on the 5 until March (and on the 2 before that).
Do you see any signs of rust here?
Having said that, though, I do agree with your premise.
If you see any rust, kindly point it out to me.
The last photo's a beauty. Just the right amount of motion-related blur. Very nice.
wayne
Peace,
ANDEE
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
But will still get their @$$es kicked by the R32s.
Hear" Hear" .
Sci Guy :You obviously are a rail scholar of great repute.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
Not really, I'm just extremely honest.
The info you provided made an IMDB search all two easy.
I'm going to take a wild guess at the station and say 174th St.
The Broadway line would have to separate at 49th Street and connect to 59th Street Columbus Circle.
-- Ed Sachs
1. Needs money.
2. Low priority. Doesn't improve service anywhere nearly as much as other possible capital improvements. Note that once the SAS is built, even just as far as 72nd St, there won't be any spare Broadway trains to route up CPW even if you wanted to. They'll all be needed in Upper Manhattan and Queens.
If that were the case, they would be sending the W to Continental to supplement a lower tph of Rs, instead of turning some Rs at Whitehall so that there are more Rs between Whitehall and Contiental than between Whitehall and Bay Ridge.
Also, after next February, they could run Ws between 57th and Whitehall instead of between Astoria and Whitehall if Astoria didn't need them.
The fact is that so many yuppies have moved into Astoria that the N doesn't suffice. Bensonhurst hasn't grown, so adding more Ns make no sense, since for most of their trip they would be underutilized.
Cutting back the N would be the better idea, if Astoria gaves to much
service. The N and Q are comming for the Bridge and run on the Bway X
and the R and W are running on Bway L. The N to Astoria requires
switching form the X to the L tracks, which would be avoided with the
cut-back.
You're 100% right. But my point is they're not doing anything of the sort because the N AND W are needed in Astoria.
That's what, about 2 miles or so beyond the current terminal at 57/7th? How many more train sets will be needed on the Broadway Express to run this service? At least 2 more, right?
No more merges! You will delay everything.
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/manhattan/wtc/ny-bzarch013475814oct01,0,2469735.story?coll=nyc-wtc-headlines
The new album is called 10-3-03: Goin' Downtown. Enjoy!
P.S. You might find a very interesting set of rail photos in that album, but only if you're a DC area transit fan;-)
http://photos.transitgallery.com/ShoeboxRelics/aar
Looks like its dumped into the middle of a field or something?
5 BROOKLYN EXPRESS
5 LEXINGTON AV EXP
5 BRONX EXPRESS
That means that the 5 is running express in all of the boroughs that it runs in. Does a line like the A have similar characteristics? This kinda makes the 5 possibly even more unique, that it's rule of the dyre av branch.
The Q diamond has that characteristic, express in Brooklen and Manhatthan.
The D has that characteristic, express in Manhatthan and the Bronx.
Thats about it.
The A is almost comparable to the 5. A relatively short local stretch (in terms of number of stations) at each end, then the rest is express. It has a few more local stops at each end than the 5.
Also, the A, even better than the diamond Q, is express 7 days a week. The 5 is a nearly full express in rush hour only, and only in the rush direction.
I think I first learned that in 10th Grade geometry.
R-32.
Because if I remember the R142A's have always been faster than the R142's. In the beginning the MTA had one test train, half R142, half R142A. Whenever the R142 was the lead set everything was fine. Whenever the R142A was the lead set the R142 would have problems matching the acceleration rate of it's Kawasaki counterpart.
Metaphorically, the Bombardier set is on the 2. IIRC the Kawasaki set is on the 6 (It's been on the 4 so much its hard to remember).
Click Here
Me, personally, would LOVE to have a R32 on the N again. I want to see how fast it can go through the 60 St tube (R32's speedometers are visible through the hinges of the cabdoor). :-D
Couldn't get all the car numbers, but here are a few:
9206/7
8937/6
8955/4
9070/1
8965/4
8869/8
8890/1
9320/9327/9317
I wonder where the reserve R-33ML Cars are going from here. If I had to take a guess, I'd say these were becoming rider cars....
-Stef
There is also some R-62A's with red stickers running on the #7 line also, which means they were transferred from the #1-Broadway route just recently.
-William A. Padron
["111th Street-Corona"]
http://mitglied.lycos.de/ansagen
I'm still sure if there was one index page linking all the files, they could all be hosted all over with one index.
I got lots of space/bandwidth. I can host them.
Maybe put them in a Zip file for downloading.
I would have put him on my killfile already but that wouldn't be nice.
These may already be in the MTA archives. The origin of this set implies that they are one-of-a-kind, but they are almost certainly one of several sets they may have survived.
They've skyrocketed past mine.
Chuck Greene
Thanks for reminding me, I forgot to post there about the 7.
There's a heck of a lot of good stuff from around the world, it normally just depends on the mode you like(subway, LRT, commuter, long-haul). But I use the NYC ones mostly because I cant' stay out of the US for too long. :)
Sadly, it was the last hurrah :(
Your baseball knowledge exceeds your subway expertise.
Which, in turn, exceeds your subway expertise.
But it says nothing about your baseball expertise. That could be much greater than mine.
They finished way back, much like the Mets (who would take their place in '62) would do every year.
I read Campy's widow is selling his MVP plaques and donating the proceeds to charity.
Was Willie Mays playing for the Giants by then? His brilliant center-field defense and circus-type catches were one of the reasons the Giants swept the Indians in the 1954 World Series.
October 3, 1951 was the day of Bobby Thompson's shot heard 'round the world. Russ Hodges called it this way:
"Brooklyn leading, 4-2, Thompson up there swinging. One out, last of the ninth, Bobby Thompson takes a strike call on the inside corner....Bobby batting .292......he's had a single and a double and he drove in the Giants' first run with a long fly to center...Brooklyn leads it, 4-2. Hartung at third, even with the bag, not taking any chances...Lockman at second without too big of a lead, but he'll be running like the wind if Bobby gets a hold of one...Branca throws...there's a long shot....I think it's gonna be, I believe...THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT!! THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT!!! THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT!!! THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT!!! Bobby Thompson hit it into the lower deck of the left field seats, the Giants win the pennant, and they're going crazy, they're going crazy. THEY'VE WON!!!!!!!!!!
P. S. Willie Mays was in the on deck circle when Thompson hit that home run.
What about the time (I think it was in the 54 series) Willie turned an inside-the-park home run into a double? Any other center fielder - hey, forget it.
Then there was that memorable over-the-shoulder catch Willie made that is still shown today. They say he purposely wore his cap in such a way that it would fall off his head when he threw the ball back to the infield.
That was the Giants' fifth straight win, and they would win 11 more before they lost again.
Say Fred, did you make it to church that day? Feast of the Assumption, you know.:)
Mays could have had more home runs, but, according to a biography I read, Leo Durocher at one point had him focusing on getting on base. He didn't want Mays to go for solo home runs because Mays was good on the bases and Durocher saw a way to increase team scoring this way.
You could also include two other factors that probably cost Mays a few more home runs:
He spent most of 1952 and all of 1953 in military service.
He had the misfortune of playing in Candlestick Park, where the wind wreaked havoc on righthanded hitters.
Mays hit .347 in 1958, and that included a two-month slump in mid-season. You have to wonder what he would have hit had he not had that slump.
The greater impact on him (as it was on Ted Williams, obviously) were the years in the service. Hank Aaron would probably still have the record, but it would have been someone else's that would have been broken, rather than The Babe's.
Here's something else to think about: what if Lou Gehrig hadn't gotten sick (and let's not even talk about Mickey Mantle and his injuries). Figure out the average amount of homers he hit in a season (to say nothing of his amazing RBI totals), and picture him playing another 5-6 seasons (and he would have, given his feelings about Babe Ruth). He wasn't quite 36 years old when he stopped playing. That record would have been his.
Another thing about Gehrig. Playing for teams that first featured Babe Ruth and then Joe DiMaggio, he was the cleanup hitter and team leader. That says something.
Ted Williams in Yankee Stadium.
Joe DiMaggio in Fenway Park.
Mickey Mantle in Ebbets Field.
The Giants were in Philly when Mays joined them, and when he stepped into the batting cage for the first time, he started hitting bullets everywhere. Everybody stopped dead in their tracks to watch, and Leo said, "I swear I'm gonna marry him!"
Willie wound up being named Rookie of the Year for 1951. He also hit the fly ball during the World Series that caused Mickey Mantle to tear up his knee.
If you ask me, IMHO the Mets should not retire his #24. As much as I liked and admired Willie, his contribution to the Mets was minimal. He had nothing left by the time the Mets got him.
As far as Mays and stolen bases are concerned, bear in mind that he was playing in an era when that didn't really happen very much. The best line about that came when people people were making a fuss about Jose Canseco hitting 40 homers and stealing 40 bases in a season. Mickey Mantle said something along the lines of "If I knew that people were going to make such a fuss about it, I would have done it."
Think about someone with Willie Mays' talent, speed, and brains on the basepaths today (or Mickey Mantle or Jackie Robinson). How many bases would he steal in a season today?
Subtalkers are correct, in my opinion, when speaking of Mantle, Mays, Williams, etc. They were complete players. Even though he wasn't a New Yorker, look at Stan Musial's 1948 stats. He led the NL in every category except HR's, and he missed that by 1. Also, Joe Di Maggio almost became the only big leaguer ever to have more home runs than strikeouts. He missed by doing badly in 1951, his last season, and still wound up with 367 strikeouts and 361 home runs. That's bat control.
1948 was Musial's career season. He batted .376 with 230 hits or almost 1.5 hits per game.
Every time the Dodgers played the Cardinals that year it seemed like Stan Musial got a hit.
It wasn't only against the Dodgers. His season on base percentage was .450 and slugging percentage was .702.
Next year, 1949, they were able to get him out more regularly but he still was a terror at Ebbets Field.
He slumped to .338; his obp was down marginally to .438. The reason was that he walked much more - the league wouldn't pitch to him because St. Louis was more of a contender in '49 than in '48.
I'm afraid your memory of 1949 is as clouded as your current political judgment. :-)
This ususally settles most baseball disagreements.
This ususally settles most baseball disagreements.
Stephen: A great link. Thank you.
As to Fred's political judgement. I think its due to that stuff that Dr Timothy Leary put in the drinking water years ago. It obscures reality.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
Carl's .344 followed a season in which he hit .247, mainly because grit lodged in his corneas prevented him from seeing the ball properly. After eye surgery, he claimed the ball "looked as big as a grapefruit."
I think it's safe to say Furillo hated Durocher until the day he died.
Speaking of Brock, did you know that he is one of onlt three men ever to hit a home run into the center field bleachers in the Polo Grounds?
They say that Brock had nearly circled the bases by the time his home run landed.
Mays is my favorite baseball player.
At exactly 3:58 in the afternoon of October 4, 1955 at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx, Pee Wee Reese fielded Elston Howard's grounder and threw to Gil Hodges at first for the final out, leading the then Brooklyn Dodgers to a 2-0 win over the New York Yankees for Brooklyn's first and only World Series Championship.
The year we moved to Connecticut, my old high school football team in New Jersey went undefeated. This was right after I gave away my Nolan Ryan rookie card.
Fred: What's a Dodger?
The Yanks just best the Twins 8 to 1 to take the Divisional Playoff.
Next: Hopefully the Red Sox.
Where going to have to add a new tier to Yankee Stadium to accomodate all those championship pennants.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
Fred: The New York Yankees were originally the Baltimore Orioles. When the franchise moved to The Bronx they played for a while at Hilltop Park and were known as the New York Hilltoppers.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
Hilltop Park was in Manhattan not the Bronx. The Highlanders later moved into the Polo Grounds and shared it with the Giants and changed their name to Yankees. John McGraw gave the Yankees one year to vacate, after they became successful and won the 1921 pennant.
Maybe they should call it the Yankee Series.
The Yankees (with the help of George Steinbrenner's checkbook) take it quite seriously. They really do think they own it, and more often than not have provided proof of that.
Stephen: I stand corrected. I had my parks mixed up.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
Home plate would have been near Ft Washington Ave and 165th St.
This was important because?
My thoughts entirely.
This was important because?
Exactly. Now if they'd said that Surrey had won the County Championship in 1955, that would have been interesting.
Ya know, sometimes, you Brits are...
The same could be said for Harmon Killebrew, but I won't go any further.
When he got his chance, he became one of the greatest pitchers I've ever seen (along with Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal, and Tom Seaver). It could have happened earlier.
Nope.
Starting lineup according to the scoreboard was:
19 - Gilliam - 2B
9 - Cimoli - RF
4 - Snider - CF
14 - Hodges - 1B
15 - Amoros - LF
43 - Neal - SS
1 - Reese - 3B
8 - Rosboro - C
45 - Podres - P
(Several other World Series were won by the Los Angeles National League Baseball Team...a team that had and has no right to the name Dodgers a name that expired in 1957.
Please note that after the Dodgers moved to Los Angeles, Johnny Podres was a very frequent visitor to Hollywood Park race track. Every time my firends and I were there (very frequently), Podres was there. He was lucky that the races were during the day and the ballgames were at night. I guess that was his idea of a double header.
http://baseball-almanac.com/ws/yr1955ws.shtml
I know that Brighton used to connect to tracks 1, 3 and 4, then this was changed to 2, 3 and 4. Are all three used today?
No.
My question was when track 1 was restored. It would be logical that 1 would be the first track restored since it was also the first one removed.
No.
Erecting a complicated construction is like playing chess. You don't want to stick one piece in the way of the other without a good reason to do so.
How things are put back together again would normally include building from the middle out. So tracks one and two might be removed first to gain access to tracks three and four. Obviously tracks three and four would have to be put back before tracks one and two could be put back.
But *normal* does not apply here because something has to remain open for the (W) (soon to be the (B) train) to use. It appears to me that tracks one and two will be put back first so that the (B) train can be moved to that platform while the seven and eight tracks are being rebuilt.
DISCLAIMER: I don't *know* what they are doing, since I cannot see Coney Island from the middle of North Dakota: My comments only apply to what *could* be the logic to the situation.
Elias
Track 1 has been back in place for about a year, IINM. There's a lot of room underneath to work on the other tracks.
Mark
“I see a large 7 in your future…”
MNR/LIRR M-3 (1985-86)
Baltimore Metro cars (1984)
Miami Metrorail cars (1984)
Chicago CTA 2600 series (1980-88)
stainless steel DMUs for Portuguese Railway (1989)
Now wait just one minute here !
Any talk of Henry Ford's invention, Greyhoud or Robert Mose is considered "off topic" ... please be careful
:0)
:0)
The work that TA crews do is really admirable.
Do you think the TA should install small fold down pneumatic toilets with 3 or 5-gallon waste tanks in the full transverse cab?
Think just came out applauding crews for not taking any comfort breaks during August and shows the diminishing #s from previous years. Guess they started threatening more and more explaining the #'s.
Don't know if it still holds true, but I know a few months back on the J line a TSS had to meet the train when a crew member requested a comfort and a report had to be filed.
Last winter contractors cut the pipe heater at Met. The heater prevents the waste from freezing as the crew facilities are exposed to the elements. The bathroom was out for over two weeks. At one point a manager suggested that we wait until spring so the line could thaw. Frozen or not human waste festering for months is gross. About a week later the toilet was also out at Bay Parkway for 2-3 days and at least one of those days it was out at 9th ave.
Finally after all the complaints someone took a comfort break during a trip and instead of fixing the problem the line Supt created a comfort relief form where you have to explain why you needed a comfort break.
And "necessary and appropriate discipline will be taken against anyone who causes delays and RTO charges to line(s)"
It is sort of funny, if you have to piss and cause a delay they take you out of service and then you go to the MAC and you have to piss again for them.
That's right, I'm going to give myself a potentially fatal condition to spite the TA. Sorry bro, not for me.
Possibly. I know he was on the #7 line a few years back.
Ironically you'll find in every tower (where its easily accessable by crews, not!) on the #7 line a list of bathroom locations en route.
But nowadays, don't you have to fill out some kind of form if you tried to do what you described above?
I definitely ain't got the temperment for it today. I'd have to carry a laptop and a printer to spew G2's. Back then, spit happened and they were just glad to see you roll. Only had to do an "inspection" a couple of times, and yeah, control believed it, no questions asked other than "did you find anything? Can you move the train?" When I answered back, "yeah we're OK" you could hear the cheering in the background. =)
I doubt it's like that anymore.
An elderly gentleman from the SECOND car now comes up, to ask the conductor about all that clatter. The conductor doesn't seem too concerned, says it's probably just some hose that got loose. He goes out to the vestibule, looks down into the gap between the car and the roaring engine, for a few minutes, shrugs his shoulders, comes back and says that he'll check it out when we first stop (which isn't going to happen for another half-hour).
Afterwards, he comes back and says that it was indeed a loose hose; its end of it got all smashed and banged up against the gravel. He also said that the engineer called him earlier. He saw the dust and the gravel getting kicked up by the dangling hose, and thought that something was smoking.
So, guy that's driving a big honking diesel, with a few thousand gallons of fuel underneath, thinks that he sees something smoking under the first or the second car, and doesn't seem to mind waiting until the next stop? No big deal.
Then it could have been an axle burning up too. "Wing it or fling it" ... :)
Wait. Those aren't lavatories? Now you tell me!
: ) Elias
The result: more expenditure on anything considered anti-communist, including the interstate highway system at the expense of rail and transit in general.
-William A. Padron
["Wash. Hts.-8th Av. Exp."]
-William A. Padron
["Mott Av.-Far Rockaway"]
That is, except for the Montclair Branch which has no weekend service.
Also of note-
On my return instead of boarding at nearby Stapleton I walked down to the Clifton stop cause I wanted to get a look at the shops (Loco 058 and hack 607 in view). Lucky I did because the northbound train I boarded did not stop at Stapleton (or Tompkinsville for that matter). I think it was because the train was late. They advised riders for those two stops to stay on board and ride back. (This made little sense to me.) Also, they held a southbound train north of Clifton (just south of the crossover to the Clifton shop) for about five minutes prior to the arrival of the northbound. I assumed it was a shop train. But when we passed it it was loaded with riders and obviously a revenue train. Are they single-tracking below Stapleton?
Stapleton and Tompkinsville are flag stops.
I guess the Orange or Red are the two main candidates.
Northeast corridor, via Hell Gate Bridge??
As far as the NYC Subway is concerned, the only way trains could get to the Hell Gate bridge is via a connection to the LIRR (via Linden Shops?) then from there get onto Amtrak tracks. Wasn't there a direct LIRR connection (Bay Ridge Branch) to the Canarsie Line at one point?
If the connections exist in both systems, then, in theory, it should be possible for Boston subway cars (from the Red Line, at least) to get to the NYC subway system and vice versa. Of course, a diesel engine (such as SBK's Engine N1) would have to pull both systems subway cars over NEC trackage since there is no third rail on the NEC.
Koi
Not quite, but close. Orange line is 65' x 9'3"; Red line is 69'6" x 10'2". Blue line cars are the closest to IRT; they are same width as the Orange line, but only 48'6" long.
MOD trip 9-28-03
Great shots, Larry.
Chuck Greene
My favorite pictures are the ones in the Coney Island area and "that girl."
What propulsion do they use? The 68 and 68A sound nearly the same on takeoff. The brakes sound almost the same too.
Robert
Damn! A match made in heaven. LOL!
-Stef
I doubt it, since nothing that stops at Lawrence comes anywhere near the Franklin Shuttle.
Yes, it is.
According to the info on the web site, the line is scheduled to open in FALL 2003! WHEN WILL THE LINE OPEN!
Furthermore, there are still some small jobs to be finished here and there along the line. In Riverside, for instance, the pedestrian crossings over the tracks still have missing sections to be filled in.
In an article in the Courier-Post a couple days ago, an NJT spokesman declined to speculate on a starting date.
BTW, November 15 is when the HBLR extension to 22nd Street in Bayonne opens. See at the bottom of this page for HBLR Substitute Busing This will be the first section of MOS-2 to open on HBLR. North of Hoboken is rumoured for mid-2004.
Great news. Probably just in time for PATH's opening. AirTrain-JFK will be open around that time as well. And 3 months after that, the Manny B will be open to full subway service again.
We have much to be thankful for.
Management decision to delay startup until all cars have run X thousand miles in testing and everything seems to work.
As a result of testing so far, several communities have lowered the maximum allowed speed through grade crossings, so (once service begins) the trip will take longer than originally planned.
At least people on the Trenton and NY end of NJT's operations have something to be happy for. HBLR, Secaucus Transfer... we on the Camden and Philly end still have no SJLRT to speak of, and the onl other rail service is either the repetitive PATCO or the infrequent ACRL...
I REALLY wanna get back to DC for another trip...
In my wanderings around the SNJLRTS, I've seen very little of NJT; I've seen Bechtel (construction) and Bombardier (operation).
If the SNJLRTS had been built as a "standard" Light Rail line (electrified) we'd be looking at months & months of testing.
Mark
As for designing actual construction projects such as new stations and renovation projects, it's a pretty safe bet they use AutoCAD. I wouldn't even be surprised if the designs for the new rolling stock are done on AutoCAD as well.
-- David
Philadelphia, PA
Chuck Greene
--Mark
When they had to do it again a couple of years back, the decided instead to use different route letters, the "Circle Q" for the Brooklyn half of the D line (Brighton) and W for the Brooklyn half of the B line (West End) rerouted up Broadway.
-- Ed Sachs
I don't know whether you can say the K counts. It was always blue, but the original today would've been brown and/or orange. The third K - never actually implemented - would've been gray. I believe the R-110B has this sign. Also the 8, which would've been a separate color for 3rd Ave had it still existed, is now Lexington Avenue Green.
I wonder what letter the old Myrtle El route would have gooten when they did away with the double or mixed letters. It was called the MJ, but bot M and J were already taken, so I wonder what they would have called that line.
I'd LOVE to see an X one day... Almost all the letters otherwise have been taken up!
#8667 S 63rd Street Shuttle
http://mta-nyc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/mta_nyc.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php
In fact the February 2004 schedules are in stone after being reworked at the last minute.
Email not the MTA but the Bronx politicians.
Do you live on this line, that would give more credibility too.
Contact your local politicians not the MTA.
You notice they never whould think about cutting Brooklyn Bound #5 EXP service early.
lol, increases safety, what about HP itself?
People like myself who live on the Far Rockaway line see no regular service for the most part. Weekdays 10-3 and weekends always bring the shuttle train service that runs less frequently than normal service. Or shuttle bus service that at least doubles the travel time from The Rockaways or Howard Beach to Rockaway Blvd alone. This has been going on over a year now without a break (not counting 1 or 2 day suspensions of the GO).
Or how about those who live on the L line? Constantly Shuttle service from Canarsie to Broadway Junction or evern worse, Canarsie to Myrtle and multiple shuttle busses. Again they see this during the week as well as weekends. They dealt with this a good while as well.
So next time you wanna bitch about express service, be happy most of the time you don't have to deal with 1 extra train or shuttle busses as often as other areas.
"Or how about those who live on the L line? Constantly Shuttle service from Canarsie to Broadway Junction or evern worse, Canarsie to Myrtle and multiple shuttle busses. Again they see this during the week as well as weekends. They dealt with this a good while as well. "
Fortunately, this is a temporary situation. Normal service will ultimately resume.
I'm not only referring to only the removal of the El. Frequenly they are doing trackwork in the Myrtle area, forcing a Canarsie->Myrtle, shuttle bus, Lorimer->8Av service pattern.
Again, though, I agree with your pont. Always take a moment and appreciate the service you have.
I'm guessing politics. If their reps are anything like ours in HB its hopeless to complain.
Weiner represents the Bell Habor areaand is always complaining that the SST flies low over Bell Habor. Well, in HB we're in the direct path, and our Rep, Addabbo won't do anything about it. Weiner and Addabbo say we're not affected. HB isn't affected when the runway points straight at HB? Addabbo's office is almost right under the SSTs flight path. Go figure. Something don't seem right.
Its probably the same out there. Either the rep doesn't want to be bothered, or he has some other reason to do nothing about it. Maybe the people after YEARS of dealing with this see no point in complaining, nothing's going to be done. Although paying $2, I'd be sure to start complaining again.
Then look at Williamsburg. Those stations get rebuilt pretty damned quick compared to stations in other areas. I bet those reps over there stand up for their people, and that's why you see such progress over there.
Assuming by SST you mean the Concorde, you won't have much to complain about soon.
Then look at Williamsburg. Those stations get rebuilt pretty damned quick compared to stations in other areas. I bet those reps over there stand up for their people, and that's why you see such progress over there.
What stations in particular?
Yeah but it was just a refernce to how the community representatives are a big key to getting stuff done. The Concorde is the example I could think of here wre Bell Harbor's rep did something and HB's said the problem doesn't exist and nothing needs to be done. BTW Air France and British Airways said its not economical to keep running it, supposedly complaints have nothing to do with it.
> What stations in particular?
Basically the stations west of Myrtle-Broadway. Also the UWS the stations were done relatively quick.
Eastern Parkway & Broadway Junction... how long has that been under rehab now?
True to a point. This partly reflects the rep's effectiveness and partly the community's members' activism, or lack of it.
"BTW Air France and British Airways said its not economical to keep running it, supposedly complaints have nothing to do with it. "
The complaints did not influence the airlines, The Concorde's age, increasing complications of maintenance, lower ridership after the 9/11 disaster and poor economy in Europe and here, resulted in service cancellation. Part of the maintenance headache is the potential effect of FAA or European Union regulation: When the FAA orders a safety-related modification on the 737, the design, engineering and machining costs are spread out across 5,000 airplanes. When the same thing happens to the Concorde, British Airways and Air France each are looking at a major effort to retrofit a half-dozen jets. Witness what happened after the most recent Concorde crash.
I recall a documentary that claimed that the Konkordskiy (TU-144) was built from stolen Concorde blueprints, but the final product’s canard-wings were added to increase lift at takeoff, making takeoff possible on shorter runways. Apart from the canard-wings and the use of turbofan engines (IIRC), the plane is virtually the Concorde anyway.
And oh, to have seen the Boeing 2707 as a production airliner. The Concorde would have been embarrassed to show itself in public…
is probably because thats the design that works best for supersonic passenger planes
The very same delta-wing, tilt-nose, fuselage and tail fin? Not by far. Just looking at the two aircraft, you can discern that one is a copy of the other.
The engine placement is totally different on the Tu-144 than it is on the Concorde
Well, they had to change some things to narrowly avoid accusations of outright plagiarism.
Just like bullet trains, they pretty much "look familiar" however there are differences
Oh, come on. No high-speed trains look as alike as the Concorde and the TU-144 look alike as aircraft.
The Tupolev flew first. How do you know the Concorde wasn't a copy of the Tupolev? :0)
http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=580149
The documentary you saw was completely wrong. The Concorde and Tupolev were designed around the same time. It so happens that the Delta wing design chosen is a very good answer to the problem of supersonic flight, esp. where you don't have to do any high-G maneuvers and bleed energy. Both the Russians and Concorde's team figured this out. Also, please note that the Americans in the 1960's had designed supersonic bombers (the B-58 Hustler) around the delta concept, and the French designed their Mirage series around the same concept.
The Russians figured out that a forward retractable canard was great for improving low speed handling. The Cponcorde would have found this useful. Both airliners could "droop" their noses.
Concorde blueprints were of little use to the Tupolev bureau. What they did try to get was a sample of composite materials (carbon-carbon materials, epoxies, resins).
The Concorde's engines could supercruise (sustain Mach 2 without afterburner). The Tupolev could not, and this was its greatest weakness (the Russians were behind on engine technology). Result: supersonic flights beyond a few hundred miles were not practical in the Tupolev. This doomed it in international sales.
The Tupolev actually flew first (1968) ahead of the Concorde.
The Russians deserve tremendous credit for their achievement. As a historical note, Andrei Tupolev was the student-protege of Nikolai Zhukovsky, who founded "Tsagi," the Central Bureau of Aerodynamics and Hydrodynamics in 1918 in Moscow. Tsagi had the first full-scale wind tunnel in use in the world.
Russia's aviation industry came up with a lot of great stuff. Their weaknesses were in engines and materials and computers, not aeronautical design. Their theoretical work was genius-level.
In 1964, a Russian named Pyoter (Peter) Ufimtsev, building on work started in Germany in the 1940s, wrote a paper published in the Journal of the Moscow Institute for Radio Engineering. This paper became the basis of America's F-117 and B-2 Stealth airplanes.
The documentary you saw was completely wrong
Well, I cannot verify that…I merely watched it and am reporting what they claimed. If I ever see that documentary again, I will certainly take note of who produced it. I think it was on the Discovery Wings channel…
The Tupolev actually flew first (1968) ahead of the Concorde
That I do remember…and I also recall reading about it crashing at the Paris Air Show too…
The cause was basically the pilot hot-dogging it and departing controlled flight, taking the airplane beyond its envelope. The Russians were eager to make an impression vs. the Concorde, and that led to their taking an unnecessary risk.
The Tupolev went on to serve as a cargo carrier within Russia itself - a very uneconomical role. It compiled a good safety record, remarkable considering Russian attitudes toward maintenance. The recent crash of the French Concorde on takeoff would not have happened on the Tupolev, simply because the Russians always take into account the possibility of having to fly into a crappy airfield. Incidentally, the same is true of the Tupolev 154 (Russian version of the 727). The 154 will withstand neglectful maintenance (the mechanic at the far Siberian airfield being too busy with his moonshine still to notice he has an airplane to fix) and less than wonderfully cared for runways - to a point (they do crash if this is taken too far). The 727 operated that way would be grounded a lot sooner.
Passenger service never really came back for it. But, with its lack of inter-continental range at Mach 2, there was little else Aeroflot could do with it. Technical success, but commercial failure.
The L still has the B42 "free" connection(which still runs at night) while the Bx55 no longer has night service, and it's daytime service is cut down to Fordham Road on weekends. L riders still get their "free transfer" even with change, or a TOKEN on the B42. L riders are lucky, while 8 riders were not.
Oh and the 6 also runs 8 minutes on weekends, so you think that 6 riders are so fortunate. For all we know this could be the start of cutting midday express service. Express service is important when you have to catch a bus, that won't show up for another 15 minutes(and this is having the choice of 2 buses)
Complain about whatever you think is worth complain about, but just make sure you know what it is that you're complaining about first.
I resent that!!! The train was chartered by a law firm. :)
Koi
You are correct.
Koi
That would be on the branch to Kimball, right?
Regards,
Jimmy
The Brown Line descends to at-grade after the Western stop, which was the original terminal (for all of about a year).
The Yellow Line descends to grade shortly after leaving Howard.
The Blue Line-Douglas descends to grade between the Pulaski and Kildare stops.
#3 West End Jeff
I cleaned off much of the dust on the back though. For now it's resting against the wall of my bedroom and it will probably become a mini-shrine devoted to the Redbirds.
I won't go as far as to have a candlelight vigil in my room when the Redbirds have completely gone... =p
The map at the following site was recommended by a contributor to the Yahoogroups Metroplanet message board:
http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ebrennan/subway/SubwayMap.gif
I think it may be of interest to some on this board who may not be aware of it.
It shows how the suburban lines and the subways are inter-related and where they interconnect. It distinguishes between 2, 3, and 4-track subway lines. It shows new developments such as light rail in New Jersey and the JFK airtrain. And even ferries.
http://transferpoint.bravepages.com/museum/bullets/index.html
wayne
Wayne:The R-16 replacement signs which began to appear in the cars in late 1969 show the MM 6 Avenue Local with the color light blue.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
wayne
Wayne: You are absolutely correct. I know the sign was green and I don't know why I typed in blue. But I stand corrected. Thank you
for catching that.
I'm not a collector of rollsigns but that is one that I would like to
get my hands on.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
PS MM Av.OF Americas Local was also added to the Eastern Division R-9's at the same ime but I don't believe that the R-9 rollsign additions were color coded.
I liked the narrow "M" they put in the bulkhead signs on the Eastern div cars.
As far as getting your hands on an R16 window rollsign, good luck, that one's got to be the holy grail. It has on it the following:
A (blue)
AA (magenta)
B (black)
CC (green)
D (orange)
E (lt blue)
EE (orange)
F (magenta)
GG (green)
HH (red)
JJ (orange)
KK (blue)
LL (black)
M (lt blue)
MM (green)
N (gold)
QB (red)
QJ (black)
RR (green)
S (white w/black lettering)
SS (green)
TT (blue)
Same as the R32 bulkhead sign.
Last time I was at the NYCT museum I tried to spin #6387's side roll (which was set to "A"), and found the mechanism had been disabled; I wanted to set it to "EE" just for old times' sake. :o)
wayne
-Stef
Um... Stef... 5466 does not have rollsigns.
This is true. Who says a railfan can't keep his hands to himself? LOL!
-Stef
-Stef
-Stef
Yes, I have a photo of one in the process of being ripped at New York Days 2000.
D-Train: I don't know about vandalism but certain railfans did have a habit of turning through the rollsigns to see the readings. Of course no one on sub-talk has ever done that.
Larry, RedbirdR33
The period between November 1967 and July 1968 and on through August 1968 as everything was in a state of flux. There were the short-lived NX and RJ. New services were the EE and QJ. The old BMT TT lingered on for a few months.
Subway cars lacking proper roll signs carried metal medallions identifying their routes.
The newest cars on the system were the R-40's and 42's and yet all three divisions still had first generation cars in operation.
Yes it was a great time.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
That's good. There'd've been an almighty crash at Sumner if they'd tried that.
Care to elaborate?
Peace,
ANDEE
What Genesis has in computerized brains, however, the FL9s counter with beauty, Gruerio said.
He likens the Genesis engines to "rolling rectangles with a slope front" while the FL9 engines have a high nose and wrap-around windshield, that he said became a universal symbol for trains.
"Drive around, look at the signs for stations and look at the train pictured," Gruerio said. "It has the same face as the FL9.
Metro North F10 and FL9
2008 is still a ways, off, by the way.
They are lookalikes. SLE has F7's. The FL9 is dual mode, diesel and electric, for opertion into Grand Central terminal. F units have two 2-axle trucks; FL9's have a 2-axle truck and a 3-axle truck with a third rail shoe attached.
529 is a RS-3, i.e. the cab is higher then the rest of the body with one long & one short hood. The FL9s are EMDs vs. Alco & "Covered Wagons" vs, GEEPs. Naugy (RMNE) has a B&M Geep, i.e. 1732, it's a GP-9 from EMD.
Another interesting point, just to confuse you some more. Naugy acquired two GE "U boat" from P&W. 2208 was painted it in NH colors even though it never work for them, i.e. it was bought by Conrail, then went to P&W (#2208 is a U-23B & #2525 is a U25B).
BTW, The U23B was part of Naugy's "Railfan Week-end" as evidanced in the October issue of Railpace.
avid
although, i'm glad they are still around. but it's crazy when a taxpayer funded commuter railroad are not buying new engines that are parts-compatible with others, but hanging on to a bunch of one-of-a-kinds and making modifications making MORE one-of-a-kinds.
aem7
#3 West End Jeff
In the early 1980s, the most powerful locos generated 3,300 hp; the ones Amtrak bought had 3,000 horses. UP had a monster of 6,600 horses that had two diesel engines in it. Twice the maintenance, twice the bother.
Today, there are GE Genesis engines rated at 4,500 horsepower (as per the builder's plate). I imagine EMD has units of similar power (I have heard 5,000 horses). We've come a long way.
What are the main obstacles to reliability of a high-hp diesel engine in a loco? Is it a cooling issue? Marine diesels are incredibly powerful, but the ones that drive cargo ships are also much larger in size than the locomotive diesels. Is cooling easier for them?
After photographing the GP40-PH-2 from my train, I hustled toward the other end of the station since the headlight of the Port Jervis train was already in sight. An NJT employee on the other platform yelled "Where ya goin', sir?" and I said "I just wanna photograph this train." He said "OK."
Port Jervis train entering Secaucus Transfer station
Then I explored the station. It's confusing at first, but with 45 minutes to spend between trains, I finally figured it out.
While I was photographing the spacious main room, a NJT police officer approached and informed me that photography at S.T. was forbidden for security reasons. He was very polite. I told him (politely) that that was bullsh*t, but that I wouldn't get either of us in trouble by continuing to take pictures.
The above linked photos and 12 more are on this Webshots page.