HOPE THIS HELPS
JONN
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPED OVER THE THIRD RAIL
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPED OVER THE THIRD RAIL
THE QUICK BROWN FOX FORGOT TO CHECK FOR A TRAIN
I think Arial wins...
Ha! Now read this!
CG
C P C F CN N DAMN E DE MAG SUO. IN ELFE TIB COR P F C N COR.
YOUR POINT ABOUT GRAMMAR AND PUNCTUATION IS, I'M SURE, PART OF THE ISSUE. PERHAPS SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO POST IN ALL CAPS DO SO BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE TO SLOW DOWN ENOUGH TO TYPE IN MIXED CASE. IT WOULD LOGICALLY FOLLOW THAT THEY MIGHT ALSO LACK THE PATIENCE TO USE REASONABLY CORRECT GRAMMAR SPELLING AND PUNCTUATION.
I have no idea why it is so difficult to read posts that are made in all caps, but to my eyes it just is. Perhaps someone much more knowledgeable in the mechanics of the eye and brain can comment on the subject for us but it's well beyond anything I understand.
Your point about grammar and punctuation is, I'm sure, part of the issue. Perhaps some of the people who post in all caps do so because they don't have the patience to slow down enough to type in mixed case. It would logically follow that they might also lack the patience to use reasonably correct grammar spelling and punctuation.
CG (cg)
BTW, at certain Libraries in NY City, especially Science & Business on Madison, it's common to find Text Size in catalogue computer terminals has been enlarged by a previous patron. I've done it myself.
No he cannot, as it does not change the size of the textarea. Check it yourself.
Most current signs, including the ones on the recently retired R-33's, refer to plain old Woodlawn (or, in the case of the R-33's, "Woodlwn") rather than Woodlawn Road.
Some examples (old names in parentheses):
#7 Line:
33rd St. (Rawson St.)
40th St. (Lowery St.)
46th St. (Bliss St.)
The above names are being restored to the subway and street sign names soon!
52nd St. (Lincoln Ave.)
69th St. (Fisk Ave.) - still name of interlocking located here
N and W Astoria Line:
39th St. (Washington Ave.)
36th St. (Beebe Ave.)
30th Ave. (Grand Ave.)
A Line to Lefferts:
80th St. (Hudson St.)
88th St. (Boyd Ave.)
104th St. (Oxford Ave.)
111th St. (Greenwood Ave.)
A Line to Far Rockaway:
Beach 67th St. (Gaston Ave.)
Beach 60th St. (Straiton Ave.)
Beach 44th St. (Frank Ave.)
I'm sure there are others.
I wonder how many people would have even known about the old system of named streets had it not been for NYCTA's policy of maintinaing this rich history on its station signs?
That's why we have
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/streetnecrology/necrologyhomepage/necro.html
Well I for one am glad there was such a policy. Numbered streets may make for easier navigation, but they lack any sense of character or history.
Anyone who has tried to maneuver Queens' so-called "grid" of Avenues, Roads, Streets, Places, Courts, Paths and whatever else they used to try to maintain some semblance of a grid should be able to report back that the "easier navigation" goal was not a smashing success in Queens.
CG
Then again, Boston has five Washington Streets and they don't seem to mind very much.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Ely-23rd St or 23rd-Ely St, etc
That may have made them drop some "Ave"s here and add "St" there, but at least many of the old names would still exist, and they still could have done the Queens numering system for addresses and streets to make it a bit easier to find things (which I stilll find confusing anyway). In the cases where there were overlaps (like five 5th St's, etc, well, those could have just been dropped.
Or have something added: Astoria 5 St, Jackson 5 St, etc. Brooklyn has 7 St, North 7 St, South 7 St, West 7 St, East 7 St, Bay 7 St, Brighton 7 St, and Paerdegat 7 St, and once upon a time mapped Bergen 7 St and Vandalia 7 St. There are TWO West 9 Streets.
Another reason to love Brooklyn. A sensible approach that keeps the flavor of each neighborhood. To those who know Brooklyn, every one of those 7th Sts. are easily distinguishable from each other. To wit, Park Slope, Nothside Williamsburg, Southside Williamsburg, Bensonhurst, Midwood/Gravesend, Bensonhurst, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay, Park Slope...just off the top of my head. But I missed Vandalia 7 St. though. Didn't want to cheat and look it up.
They could be renamed Corrupt Politician Blvd.
I didn't know that. It sounds like Atlanta where they have about 1,000 streets named Peachtree (I don't know if they all have different suffixes, though). It always amazes me that the locals seem to know exactly which one is being talked about when someone says "It's over on Peachtree".
CG
Beach 90th Street. (Holland Ave.)
N and W Astoria Line:
39th St. (Washington Ave.)
36th St. (Beebe Ave.)
Correct names, wrong order. 39th was Beebe, 36th was Washington.
39th Ave. (Beebe Ave.)
36th Ave. (Beebe Ave.)
The entire Astoria Line is above 31st Street. It doesn't cross 36th or 39th Street.
No I didn't. I never corrected the street type. :-)
Beach 98 St - Playland
Beach 105St - Seaside
Beach 36 St - Edgemere
Beach 25 St - Wavecrest
Bay Ridge Avenue is still called 69th Street in Brooklyn(there is the 69th Street Pier), and the DOT should double sign the street(similar thing with Bay Ridge Parkway 75th Street). 6th Avenue remained in public usage for many years after being called Avenue of the Americas.
The MTA still uses 238th Street on the 2/5 lines(and so do many locals, of course 238th Street is not a non existing street as it does officially exist in Woodlawn Heights). 238th Street is usually in parentheses and in some cases is even more popular than Nereid Avenue. Of course the redbirds only said E 238 Street, and the r-142s(the newer ones) have 238 St references(while the older ones just said Nereid).
The USAR Center has an address of 555 E 238th Street, even though it is actually on Nereid Avenue!
Several places on Bedford Park Boulevard have used 200th Street on the front of the store or as their "official" address in the phone book. The New York Botanical Gardens prefers 200th Street(of course they usually also use Southern Boulevard as well, which was also renamed) Many old street names(or numbers) are still recognized by the post office like most of E 177th Street, the upper parts of 7th Avenue(AC Powell Blvd)
Here are my observations based on today:
There were almost no Far Rock A trains. Lefferts A's ran local all the way. Far Rock A's ran local in Manhattan in both directions; I think they ran express in Brooklyn, but I don't know, since I didn't spot any there.
Also, SB A's ran via Rutgers, due to construction at Chambers. This wasn't posted online, but official service advisories were posted at the bypassed stations.
Does anyone here have the actual GO and the associated supplement schedules? What was happening here? What were the actual headways? Is this a test for a possible future weekend service pattern? Even though local service was much more frequent than usual, I don't like this weekend's arrangement one bit.
Anyway, that GO obviously isn't going to become permanent. I'm referring to the whole confusing bit about what's going local and what's going express.
Here's the advisory, BTW. And that isn't even what happened; the express platform at 34th Street was taped off, so nothing was running express in Manhattan in either direction. Also, it appeared that all trains ran through to 207th.
Those confused people could have taken the 2/3 one stop for the E, but I'll bet there were no signs explaining that option. If only the J ran through to Broad on weekends, the obvious detour would have been to take the J from Fulton to Essex and to catch the A there.
And why were there so many more Lefferts trains than Far Rock trains? I thought it was so as not to starve the local stations (although, if anything, the local stations were flooded with Lefferts service), but if Far Rock trains were running local too, then I don't get it.
This may have been a test for a new weekend service pattern. I hope not.
If we relabel this weekend's Lefferts A trains as C trains, then we end up with a 600-foot C train every 5-7 minutes, it seems, and an A train every 20 minutes or so, with A and C trains making local stops in Manhattan and A and C trains both running to 207th.
That's nothing like what anyone on SubTalk ever proposed!
If they'd run the A express in places where they weren't doing work, then they ALSO would have had to run Cs, resulting in still more trains cramming onto the local tracks in areas where they were working on the express tracks.
Besides, the A, C, and E have no trouble sharing the local track on weekends (nor do the A, C, and F).
Originally, all A service was to run local because C service was suspended for the weekend. The original G.O called for trains to run every six minutes. This looked fine on paper but in reality it was a nightmare. Severe congestion was created on the local tracks even though the E had been diverted to the 6th Avenue line; and it was hard to keep the trains spaced evenly.
The G.O. also called for there to be two Lefferts trains for every one Far Rockaway train. This also caused a problem because Far Rockaway trains often got lost in the shuffle. If two R32s/R38s were at 207th Street and both were signed to be Lefferts trains, someone had to go out and change signs on one of them if the next train was scheduled to go to Far Rockaway. Not an easy feat when you're running the line on a six minute headway. It was then decided that trains running to or from Far Rockaway would run express in Brooklyn in both directions and in the north direction (uptown) from Canal Street to 168th Street (there was a separate G.O. which required all southbound A trains to run from West 4th Street to Jay Street via the F line, so all southbound service was running local) while all trains to/from Lefferts Blvd. ran local from Euclid Avenue to 168th Street in both directions. For the first few hours, this plan clicked like clockwork. Congestion was eased on the local track, and the Far Rock trains were making it into 207 cutting back on the number of changeovers.
Then a new problem arose. Passengers at 34th street waiting on the express platform for an uptown train would see the A arrive on the local track. After changing sides, they would find the next A coming in on the express track. The uproar was so great that it was decided that all uptown trains would operate local between Canal Street and 59th Street. Once at 59th Street, trains would identify themselves to the tower. Far Rock trains would be sent up the express and Lefferts trains would continue up the local.
I think that covers everything. Any questions?
So what were the final headways?
Were Far Rock trains really running express NB north of 59th? That, IMO, is a recipe for another passenger nightmare: it's bad enough that some A's were express and others were local, but in this case a passenger would have no way to tell an express and a local apart. Besides, the reason for sending some A's express no longer exists north of 59th -- if anything, with D's on the express track, congestion would be minimized by sending all A's local.
Didn't he say Broadway Junction to Euclid Avenue?
I also saw an A train at Columbus Circle that announced 72nd Street as the next stop, although I didn't get on.
Haven't you learned by now not to believe announcements that easily? :)
My mistake.
There was no worry about congestion on the express track north of 59th Street. The D generally runs on a ten minute headway on weekends. With this G.O running with the A, Far Rockaway trains are roughly 12 minutes apart. Enough time for the D to enter and leave 59th Street before that Far Rock A appears on the local track.
I am of the opinion that any train scheduled to make all local stops between 168th and Euclid in both directions should be signed as C, regardless of whether it continues north of 168th or south of Euclid, since the local-express status is relevant to more passengers, terminals are signed more often and more accurately than the local-express status, and making a mistake in the local-express status often requires backtracking. I realize that some disagree. But in this case, with some trains running local and others running express, surely they should have been distinguished in letter!
What's the point of canceling all Cs if the local tracks were in use all the way from 168th to Euclid?
Of course, with extra A trains running on a six minute headway, it would have been as if the C were still running anyway so there probably wouldn't have been much of a difference.
Hey, don't forget about our M4 cars here in Philly. They don't have just a railfan seat, but a whole railfan gallery!
: )
Mark
Interesting. That means you are related (in a very convoluted way) to a former British Prime Minister.
Archibald Philip Primrose, the 5th Earl of Rosebery, was of course married to Hannah de Rothschild from 1878 until her death from Typhoid in 1890. Lord Rosebery went on to be Prime Minister from March 1894 to June 1895.
Lord Rosebery also:
- got expelled from Oxford University in 1869, as the University authorities weren't impressed at him buying a racehorse and entering it in the Derby (it finished last).
- won the Derby three times, twice while Prime Minister.
- was the first Chairman of London County Council.
- maintained that the only two people he feared were Queen Victoria and Count Otto von Bismarck.
- gave a park to the town of Epsom, Surrey (the Derby is of course held at Epsom Downs, so this isn't totally random!).
But I need your help. All I have is 4 X 6 shots and a Lexmark page scanner with absolutely no idea how to post them onto messages such as this. I know how to e-mail them, but don't know if the shots can be used from the e-mail to be posted in the pictures section. I see many people using thumbnails to save file size as well. How can I do that?
In short, I would be grateful for some instructions on how to post pictures, first as messages, and then with Daves okay, providing them to the site. Thanks!
The code to insert image is: <IMG SRC="address"> where address is the address of the photo
If you want to create a link instead of embedding use <A HREF="address>text</A> where text is the link test.
Finally if you want to use thumbnails you'll need to use an image editing program to make a smaller picture and then you combine the two methods above to have <A HREF="full-pic-address"><IMG SRC="thumbnail-address"></A>
Remember always to preview before posting
Thanks for the "short answer" to the question, but I know absolutely nothing about the mechanism behind these actions, and barely trust my ability to post here in plain text.
I don't have an address or website of my own to keep the photos online. Does this "hosting site" give instructions on how to scan the picture to it? If I go to www.hostingsite.com will it greet me with something along the lines of "Bounce your pictures off us! We'll show you how in X easy steps. Free Copyright Protection."
Does this cost money? If I scan it to that site, will it give me some sort of file number or unique address that I will insert into the HTML code you gave me to have it pictured here? Is it secure?
I don't mean to sound so naive, but I really am this technologically ignorant. Hell, I am afraid of posting my resume online even though I need a new job yesterday because mine has bullets and graphics. Even the 100% plain text version I created comes in like a mess in the posting window they provide and I am concerned that that is the way it will appear to prospective employers.
Hearing all this, is there any redemption for me, or should I just snail-mail the pictures to a friend of mine who knows what he is doing? Thanks again.
Your scanner should include the instructions on how to do that. The site will include instructions on how to transfer the picture files your scanning program creates to the web space.
Does this cost money?
It could, or it couldn't. There are free sites, but not all of them allow you to include the photos in webpages hosted elsewhere, meaning that you would have no choice but to link the photos, and not embed them. Some others won't even let you link right to the photo, you'll have to link to a page they create for each photo that includes the photo (so you'd be forced to look at their ad banners too). Since I have a paid host, I cannot help you to find the best free one.
If I scan it to that site, will it give me some sort of file number or unique address that I will insert into the HTML code you gave me to have it pictured here?
Yes. The address is the same one that appears in the ADDRESS line of your web browser. It would be something like http://www.hostingsite.com/username/imgfilename.jpg
Hearing all this, is there any redemption for me, or should I just snail-mail the pictures to a friend of mine who knows what he is doing? Thanks again.
There is redemption for you, snail mailing things should never be the solution.
As for your resume problem, here's one thing I suggest: Log into one of those job search sites as an employer (not an employee) and search other people's resume to see how they format it.
And the suggestion to log in as an employer tops it. Thanks once again!
I don't really know the coding method that well either. But I have picked up a few things along the way. Basically, Subtalk allows for HTML coding within the area where you post a message. All that means is by using certain characters before and after the actual message lines, you can cause words to appear bold or underlined or whatever. My knowledge was gained from going to the View menu at the top of the page and selecting Source. A text file of the page pops up with all the HTML coding visible. By seeing what effects or pictures are on the web page itself and viewing the Source text file of that page, you get to see, for example, the simple and exact codes to use for the posting of the graphic file. Hell, if you're really slick you can cut and paste the needed characters into your own message at the appropriate places.
Indeed, I wanted to show you some of the actual coding but I don't know how to type them in this space without making the codes do what they should! So the effects display on the message preview but not the coding itself. There has to be a way to "shut off" the coding results on screen but I haven't figured that one out yet.
This is a test
at the beginning of the word you want bold
at the end of the word you want bold.
Thanks. I'm a learnin' boss.
Ahhhhhh!!! I think I've got it, Ollie.
This is a test
<b>at the beginning of the word you want bold
</b>at the end of the word you want bold.
Thanks. I'm a learnin' boss.
I know this is going to take some work, and I am sure that once I get started things will fall into place. It's just that I needed to have the whole process mapped so I could get a grip on what had to be done.
Thanks.
Message # 556825
Peace,
ANDEE
I am printing out all this information so I can refer to it in the future.
Or, again, Image Magick works peachy if you want to script it.
Makes no mention of a image reducer thingie option...
Would be nice... I'll look for 1.
ImageMagick.com you say??
1869...The foundation is laid for the original Grand Central Depot at 42nd Street and Fourth Avenue.
1983...The ten-pack of tokens debuts in the subways.
Peace,
ANDEE
1969 Exact Fare required on all TA, MABSTOA, and private buses. Tokens accepted as well as coins. Fare was 20 cents!!!
1975 Base TA/MABSTOA fare goes to 50 cents, SI Ferry goes to 25 cents round trip, commuter rail increase average of 20%, TBTA tolls increase to 75 cents on Triboro, Throgs Neck, Whitestone, Midtown; to $1.00 on VN Bridge, to 50 cents on XBay, Marine Parkway, and H Hudson.
Add-A-Ride transfers introduced on all TA/MABSTOA buses to permit a second bus ride for 25 cents instead of no transfer. Existing free bus transfers continued. The Rockaway double fare on the A train was ended.
1897-the underground troley line opens in Boston, the the first subway in the Americas (Green Line)
Peace,
ANDEE
Hagstrom map
Is there a way to get longitude and lattitude for any place on earth? Does Global Positioning Satellites tell you that?
N Broadway Line
Stillwell Avenue is almost right at the 40 deg 34'30" mark, and very slightly south of Ocean Parkway (maybe).
So Stillwell Avenue is definitely closer to the Equator than B. 116 St.
#3 West End Jeff
What do you base this statement on?
Brighton Beach is at 40° 34' 38" N
Ocean Parkway is 40° 34' 34" N
West 8th Street is 40° 34' 33" N, making it the furthest south (not Ocean Parkway, I was incorrect about that)
Coney Island is at 40° 34' 36" N
All of these are the southernmost point in the station as shown by TopoZone.
Neptune Avenue is 40° 34' 44" N
CG
Far Rockaway: 40.6044°N, 73.7550°W
179th And Hillside: 40.7124°N, 73.7849°W
That is true, however the Queens/Nassau border does not go straight up and down. For example, where Union Turnpike hits the Nassau border, that location is much further east than where Far Rockaway meets Inwood. If you were to draw a line straight up from Inwood, Lawrence, or Cedarhurst, you would hit places like Glen Oaks and Little Neck, both sections of Queens.
Here is a list of city closings.
IMHO the R38's are suffering. I am actually convinced that some of the R38s have roofs that are patched together with brown ducktape and bondo.
Given the remaining ones on the 7, BONDO and duct tape can't save them from their watery graves. I've seen holes on the sides I could stick my finger in but dare not. The R42's come in a close second for me.
Jimmy
Jimmy
Guess I'm crazy but it's good to be able to walk down a city street, crossing over numerous multi-track subway lines to its riverside end and jump on a boat to another city street across a busy river. (The ferry itself paralleling a subway line going to the same place!) With its own delighful mechanical symphony of underground and overground rail lines, and teeming sidewalks fronting urban streetscapes. This dynamic fascinates me to no end. Makes me feel good to be alive.
Anyway, just a thought.
Aren't you forgetting about the R11's?
Regardless, that is a pretty amazing thing because, to me at least, the R-32s don't seem so "old".
--Mark
I've seen Kool-D post on this, and since I'm making plans to be there
myself, I don't wanna be the ONLY steel-maiden going.... so what's the plan, brahs?
For the unaware, Synopsis, Directions, Tickets & Information is all here.
If anybody wants to go for a ride on the new Atlantic Avenue L alignment beforehand, let me know and I'll try to arrange a plan. (Otherwise I'll just go on my own.)
If the R-42 set is still running this afternoon, I want to both photograph it and ride it. I need to be at Atlantic at about 3:30 to guarantee that I catch it (if it's running) and still make it to the movie on time. Anybody who's free that early is welcome to meet me there, but don't look for me at Fulton. Bring reading material.
Weekend GO's sometimes bump the 2 and 3 onto the local track, as do occasional (planned or unplanned) express track blockages. In principle, a long gap in 1/9 service might push a 2 or 3 to the local track, but I've never seen such a thing in practice.
I'm curious where you saw the 2 referred to as the 7th Avenue local.
What's much more likely is for 1/9's to make battery runs.
BTW, where can I pick up THE MAP? I saw someone on the train holding one yesterday and I could use one of those for the Subway.
R36WF #9712
How reliable is the AirTrain for getting to Newark Airport? What's the best way to connect to it? PATH? NJ Tranist? I'm leaving from East Midtown. My main concern is travel time. My other option is the bus which leaves from Grand Central every 20 min.
The AirTrain website is confusing hell so I was hoping for some help from the experts.
Thanks!
~W
--jon
Link?
--jon
PATH does not connect to the EWR AirTrain monorail. Its tracks end in Newark Penn, which necessitates a change to NJ Transit trains at that station, for a fare of well over $6 O-W on top of the PATH fare.
If you have the time, you can save money by riding the PATH to Newark Penn Station, then going downstairs and getting the 62 bus, which runs about every 20 minutes. Total O-W cost will come to a mere $2.65 or so.
PATH only goes to Newark's Penn Station, where you have to change to NJT.
There is a bus at Newark's Penn Station which goes to the airport every 10 minutes; look it up on the NJTransit webpage.
I am sure the EWR AirTrain is reliable; my question would be how reliable is New Jersey Transit from NYC? Actually, I've never been delayed on it, so I guess you can trust it. Taking PATH to Newark and the Bus (#9??) is the old-fashioned way but maybe the most practical way.
Not pracitical if you're in a hurry and it's rush hour. It's taken me an hour (including waiting for the bus to come in the first place) to get from Newark Penn to the airport in heavy traffic.
http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/current/r0070.pdf
Service from Penn to EWR runs about every 20 minutes or so during that time and takes 20-25 minutes. The Airtrain connection takes anywhere from 10-20 minutes from the train station to the terminals -- depending on which terminal you are using. (Terminal C -- the main Continental Airlines terminal is the closest, Terminal A is the farthest). You can buy a combined NJT rail and Airtrain ticket (around $11-12 either at an NJT ticket window or from a vending machine in Penn Station).
You'll have no problem at all getting to the airport in plenty of time for a 7:15 flight.
CG
Check the NJ Transit website to see how often trains run to Newark Airport (don't get off at Newark Penn!) , also Amtrak is alot more comfortable and quicker (in my experience). If you can spend the $20 or if your company would pick it up and the schedules are good I would take Amtrak to EWR.
When you get back post a trip report and tell us how it worked out, and yes the Airtrain Newark website is the worst.
Are you involved in some way with the book?
As much as I can be objective, I was really surprised at the contents. It's sort of like a large-format family album. There is at least one picture of every single one of the 100 PCC cars, most of which are in attractive and interesting locations. I enjoyed the text, too.
Anyway, I haven't seen it yet, and I am looking forward to it.
Seriously, saw him again on one of the June MOD trips. He's in Calif now, but gets home sick for a certain subway line from time to time.
He also knows a lot of history about the subway.
Would Fred approve of calling the #4 Sea Beach Line the "N" train? :)
Sure, in the baseball world, one team has the letter N in it (YaNkees) and the other doesn't (MUTTS!).
Kool2BQ as "Kool To Be Kill"
He can also spot rats as no one else can.:)
That's why I posted my Attention Sea Beach Fred message.
Jimmy
Jimmy
Isn't about time for you to be filling out "old folks home" applications?
Sea Beach Fred, if I may?
Ahhh Shadup You!
Thank you.
Well, you should know that that descriptive is well fitting to the Bensonhurst area neighborhoods. It is used by the local "youts" in their collective enclaves. I.E., some of the fellows might be known as being associated with, say, the 18th Avenue Boys, or the Avenue P Boys. Actually, the use of "boys" is a long held tradition in Brooklyn. It dates way back to the early history of Brooklyn and New York. When I first moved into Bensonhurst and heard the term used...I don't know. I knew somehow I was coming home to a place I'd never been before.
But I'm eccentric like that anyway. Just like our favorite train line.
Rail transit-related tidbits: In 1953, there were only cable cars and streetcars in San Francisco. BART was only being studied -- it wouldn't be "formally" recommended until 1957. The "newest" NYC subway cars at the time were the R11 & R15.
We can SHIP 'em to ya, ya know.
Oh, you asked who Sea Beach FRED is.... nevermind
So some of us Brighton Line fanatics do all the fun and remind Fred of how we feel about his Sea, eh no SLIME BITCH Line really is.
And boy do us Brighton fans enjoy it! :-D
Rats ... feh ... I'm from da BRONX ... whaddya think "Chicken DELIGHT" was? Bobka? Pastelillos? heh.
But yeah, bring on your worst, don't forget "tourist guy" on the bottlecaps between the cars ... and if you can arrange for my interval to end at 76th street (with penalty time for the relay since I ain't got no dang switchman) then let's DO IT! (as Bluto Blutarsky would say) Heh.
Unca Selkirk ain't got *NO* fer shame ... baked daily. Heh.
FOOD FIII-IIIIIIIIII-IIIGHT!!!!!!
I've been on this board for 3 YEARS and I'm trying to figure out the same thing....hahahahaha! :)
Agggh! Ain't California got anything better? After all, it's Gray DAVIS' fault that ENRONCheney ran up their electric bills. :-\
My sympathies to ALL of you ... you'd THINK that the press out there would ask how Minnesota made out with THEIR celeb guv ... if'n ya wants to apply for political asylum, send me an email. :)
Sea Beach Fred for Governor'''
Best Wishes
Larry, RedbirdR33
How about your platform?
Keep the Rockefeller drug laws (nobody asked you to try drugs.)
Increase funding for public Transportation
Better oversight of the MTA and it's finances
And a State budget that is on time after 19 cosecutive years missing the April 1st deadline.
Heh. You should've seen the look my gf gave me when she found a copy of BAHN on my comp!
Nice program - but haves a useless signal system.
It could do with distant signals and braking instead of a signal turning red one sec before a train arrives and it amazingly decellerating instantly from 300kph to 0.
However, it is the best program out there.
My main gripe is how it won't let you have multiple levels and curved tunnels.
That's right!
Bill running Boston stuff?? never seen it happen! :)(and probably never will)
Don't understand that ... well I guess he's only interested in preserving & stabalizing the Boston rt stuff ... but that's not a bad thing.
There are shop folks at Branford that frequently make little comments about what the "operating department" does to the stuff they work so hard on. It should make them happy that I stopped a kid in a brithday party from jumping on the brand new retan seats of 1602.
But I sure do understand and APPRECIATE the efforts of everyone who's done SO much to make those cars work better than they did on the real railroad! Unca Selkirk tips his hat to ALL!
The "pull move" was the preferred method if you could.
6144 is a Baltimore Peter Witt, not a Filthadelphia car.
One of our BSM folks goes to Seashore to help take car of it.
It's been "standarized", and the ONLY genuine un-altered Baltimore Witt is 6119, alive and well at BSM.
Koi
http://copper.takiweb.com/~ntwrkguy/bvesite/
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Jeff W
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
The pocket tape recorder gig I toldya?
You're welcome, spot.
From there we will take the 7 from 42 Street to Woodside, transfer to the Q53, take it all the way to 116 street, transfer for the Q35, take that to the last stop(Flatbush Avenue), take the 2 to 42 Street, lunch break (pending on how everyone is). After the lunch break take the N/R to 59 street, transfer for the X23 to Huguenot. Take SIR from Huguenot to Tottenville, take the SIR from Tottenville to St George, Take the ferry from St George to South Ferry and from there its up in the air.
I will be wearing white shorts, and my railfan trip traditional 3 train shirt. I will also be carrying a camera in a small black case.
No, they do not look exactly like the HBLRT/NCS electric LRTs. HBLRT/NCS cars are built by Kinki-Sharyo, for one, while the DLRVs on SNJLRT are built by Bombardier; also, there are fewer doors on the SNJLRT DLRVs than on the Kinki-Sharyo electrics (two per side versus four per side respectively). Won’t be long before the word “railbus” gets stuck on these DLRVs when they enter regular service…
That means it runs slightly more often than the R6 Cynwyd line!
: )
Mark
Mark
Very nice.
Now, will Jersey Mike get off his duff and persuade the PATCO Board to build a new PATCO branch? Come on Mike, that's your territory we're talking about!
Many people are clamoring for rail service to Glassboro/Millville. A study is currently underway (the 15th study in the last 32 years)*. PATCO-style, as well as commuter rail and light rail are being studied, on the obvious route (former PRR, where the PATCO branch would have been built 30 years ago had they done it) through the towns, as well as along the ROW of route 55 (where the traffic is).
* note: estimated numbers, close to factual
Yes, I agree with you!
So, are you gpoing to do something about it, or what?
Mark
This would be to encourage people to park at the 36th Street park'n'ride and drive home from there. Railfans have suggested running (heavy rail) Budd RDC's north of 36th St after hours.
That's okay, as long as you jealously guard the right to imprison them for dangerous driving.
Correction. Ron ISN'T able to drive now. Then Ron wouldn't be ALLOWED to drive. ;-)
You're not alone. The only things with an engine I've ever been in control of are a 50cc moped and a lawnmower!
If they have to use public transit more because of this, that's less space (and an opportunity for me to have a less aggravating commute.)
I turned 22 last week, and speaking of driving, tomorrow I get to go court for my fifth speeding ticket (sixth overall) :-)
Don't they take away your licence for speeding that many times?
I was arrested for doing 33 mph over the limit, but my license wasn't suspended. The real beauty was that I was found guilty and the prosecutor didn't have my driving record, so the judge had to assume that was my first offense, and my fine was only $101 plus defensive driving school. Much better than $500 the prosecution wanted :-)
I can scarcely imagine what your insurance premiums must be.
Bah. My car has a nice loud Flowmaster cat-back and doesn't attract cops.
> Or do you deliberately burn rubber when you see a patrol car?
You may have the key there. I past a few Highway Patrol cars on the LIE and Northern State doing about 70-80 each time and never got nailed. However I wasn't swerving in or out, following the other guy closely, not passing others at a noticably greater speed, etc. In other words going fast but not attracting attention.
I guess it also depends on what kind of day or experience that patrolman has had, too. Im sure if he found most guys in Firebirds gave him a hard time, he'd be more likely to pull one over.
And my last word: local directives. A few years officers were told to target Corvettes, Camaro/Firebirds and Mustangs on Queens Blvd. Imports weren't targeted specifically. A friend got nailed for doing 39 on Queens Blvd in a Camaro.
**
Regardless of age and car the subways a much better deal anyway. I go through $40 in gas a week just on my RDOs. The subway costs me nothing - or at most $20. No worrying about accidents, flats or even worse, parking.
If you're caught driving without having a license, wouldn't it invalidate your insurance coverage?
You could say that.
You get caught speeding in the UK and you get fined £60 (about $90) plus they put 3 points on your licence. If you reach 6 points within your first 3 years of driving, or 12 points thereafter, you lose your licence.
If you're really taking the piss and driving at 20mph or so over the limit, they'll take you to court and get you banned immediately. Also, they'll try to nail you for Drink-Driving, Dangerous Driving, Reckless Driving, etc if they can (some of which you can be sent to jail for).
Driving without a licence or insurance is a VERY serious offence. To put it in proportion, if you have less than 1.6mm tread on any tyre, you will get 3 points and a £60 fine. If all 4 tyres are that worn - you guessed it, you lose your licence.
Back here in Brooklyn, there is a different reason to stay on the subway -- insurance. All new drivers end up in assigned risk, with a mimimum cost of $10,000 per year (yes you heard that right). After all, in a no-fault system someone has to pay for the uninsured.
The end game is only one person left in Brooklyn who actually has car insurance, at a premium of $50 million per year. Health insurance is going the same way.
That's absurd. It's almost as if New York wants to encourage its young people to move away as soon as they can.
I've got a better suggestion. Rather than penalize responsible people - in other words, those who have insurance - for all the "smooth operators" who try to beat the system by driving without insurance, enact effective penalties for uninsured operation. What do I mean by effective penalties? Here's a hint - I don't mean fines, community service, probation or suspended sentences :)
I imagine some of our contributing attornies will check in, but at some point (maybe even immediately) you can't be held in the United States simply for not having ID.
At one point in New York (pre computerized databases certainly), I think being pulled over and not being able to produce a license would earn you a summons for unlicensed driving -- which could then be dismissed if you produced your license at the precinct within a certain time period (48 hours?).
I don't know what happens nowadays. (And I don't want to find out -- at least not from personal experience).
CG
In the southern United States, it used to be (still is) that if you were caught speeding you were locked up until the fine was paid.
I don't know where the hell you got that from, but you are totally wrong.
The long answer to a short question...
Presuming (1) that the person has insurance to begin with, (2) that their license was subsequently suspended but that the insurance company did not cancel the policy upon suspension (this happens frequently because the insurer is not notified of the suspension), and (3) that the person continued to make premium payments (or had paid in full) then:
The collision coverage would be invalidated if the vehicle was being operated by the driver with the suspended license. It would not be invalidated if the car was being driven by some other licensed driver with the owner's permission.
Comprehensive coverage (theft, fire) would not be invalidated, as it generally has nothing to do with driving the vehicle.
The murkier question is the liability coverage. Courts across the country have been inconsistent, but have frequently found that the liability coverage remains in place even though the license was suspended. Reading into the cases generally finds that the inconsistency generally stems from sympathy for a victim who would be otherwise uncompensated.
In a situation where the owner has a low liability limit (say, 10/20 or even 25/50) and causes significant injury (say, hundreds of thousands of medical bills) to someone -- even while in clear violation of the conditions of insurance (such as driving with a suspended license) -- most insurers will quickly pay out the limit of the insurance policy rather than risk a potential bad faith lawsuit (a successful bad faith claim invalidates all policy limits and can put the insurer on the hook for the entire bill plus non-economic damages such as "emotional distress".
CG
I've been out of town a lot this month - including during the blackout - and am wondering if any of you saw any stories about people stuck on the subways during that time, who met and started a romance with someone they met during their subway ordeal.
I'm sure it happened. Odds are for it!
I wasn't around to read the local papers or see local news reports, so
I missed it.
I'd love to make a new "Subway Stories" shirt with a story like that.
Thanks!
Subway Grrl
FRONT:
A black (dark) colored tee... two oval white "eyes" in the center with lowered pupils (optional: a thin half-circular frown)
BACK:
Bold White Text:
"Subways during the Blackout of 2003"
and the Oval MTA logo at the top spine.
Plain & Simple tho wouldn't surprise me if someother comp has already sketched this 1.
I want to hear the good things, about how people found each other in
a time of crisis!
Subway grrl
Does anyone remember this strange subway strike?
Yes. It was organized by the MBA (Motormans Benevolent Association). They also organized something a few years earlier.
No.
1. The 1957 strike started on Dec 9th and ended on Dec 16th.
2 The MBA accused the Transit Authority of bugging their offices.
The last MBA strike put out about half the system--I may be wrong at which division went which way, but IIRC half the BMT went out and most of the IRT, but little of the IND. It was a classic dispute between craft unionism (MBA/CBA) and industrial unionism (TWU).
The TA offered any operating employee who would work continual pay if they helped break the strike. This meant they would be paid 24/7 as long as the strike lasted, even for sleep time on company property, and they would get overtime for all time after 40 hours on the property. A lot of men worked, and this broke the back of the MBA and consolidated the TWUs power, which they used to great effect in the 1966 strike.
The IRT had an original set of signals installed when built that were phazed out between 1920 and 1950 to be replaced by US&S cast iron traffic light type signals. I believe that the BMT and IND were both built with cast iron traffic lights, mostly of GRS manufacture. When the IRT's old signaling system was replaced, the initial states re-used the "old" US&S heads, but now adays (mostly on the 1/9, 4, 5 and 6 elevated portions) they are being and have been replaced by GRS heads. There are some other isolated instances of replacement signal heads, once example being the Queens Blvd Line where the original GRS units were replaced by new US&S heads.
The oldest head that I was aware of was on the 7 at the end of either the Times Sq or GCT platform dating from the opening of the line, but it was replaced sometime ago.
Right now the line with the oldest signal system is Canarsie.
The rest of the BMT has been re-signalled ca 1960-ca 2002,
again with isolated patches of 1914-vintage equipment.
After that, believe it or not, much of the IND is untouched
since 1932-1948.
The Carnashie line has some very unique signals down near the Carnashie end. They looked sort of "home made" with oddly small lenses, but the same sort of GRS boxy look. They were either very old or some sort of newer "hack" job preformed by the C&S boys. Do you have any info regarding this?
You say the BMT was re-signaled, but, for instance, on the JMZ it looked as if the original (original from when colour light signals were installed) GRS colour lights were still in place. Do you know what the new signals replaced?
Canarsie has some strange stuff in places. It is mostly typical
BMT GRS but at the terminal there is US&S equipment.
As for the Broadway Brooklyn/Jamaica line, it was re-signalled
I believe ca. 1991. The signal heads are new GRs heads and
they tend to sit on little pedestals which contain a junction box.
I don't know when color-light signals were first installed on
that line...ask Jeff Erlitz. What they replaced was probably
Hall or Federal semaphores.
Are you talking about signal 122C. It looked like the green and yellow lights were in one box, and the red light was in a different, and slightly larger box. It was just south of the 5th Avenue station, and has since been replaced.
http://www.nynewsday.com/nyc-ferr0902,0,3658876.story?coll=nyc-topheadlines-left
Well I did the math and decided to stick with the ferry for now - the combination of parking at the ferry lot and using the boat is still slightly cheaper than parking at the Queens Plaza municipal lot and taking the subway.. And its easier on my nerves ;-)
Then I won't go either, because I wouldn't go there without three other guys, all of whom are bigger than me, and at least one of which is armed.
(sorry about the quality of the photo, again it's a slide, and I can't get them to scan better)
I'm not even going to speculate as to what's behind the 1962 false wall where the original southbound outer platform is. Rats the size of wart hogs!
wayne
Only if they are running on the 6's trackway. When they rebuilt and realigned Brooklyn Bridge station, the former local platform at Chambers was removed to build the 6's new alignment.
One of the pillars that used to be on the local platform, the front of which you can see at Chambers, the back of which you can see along the 6's trackway:
(From Joe Brennan's abandoned station site)
However, there was just one spot that always creeped me out when I was a kid. It's the place where the Brighton platforms at Prospect Park dip sharply under the Malbone Street tunnel. You could hear the Franklin trains rumbling above, cold damp winds whistled out of the Flatbush Avenue tunnels and every now and then there was a loud resonant CLANG, like a huge gong, that echoed through the tunnel. To this day I never could figure out what made that sound, and I did try. It bugged me enough that I stopped waiting for trains in that area.
OTOH, I rode through the Malbone Street tunnel itself numerous times, especially before the crossover was built north of the tunnel portal. I would hang out the front window of a Standard (which stuck out in such a way that you didn't feel like you were in a train at all) going through there, and it never bothered me a bit. Go figure.
Only highlight while waiting was seeing an OOS R46 roar past the station sporting a rear sign that was stuck between "J" and "Z."
wayne
Grand Concourse Line (B)(D)-Tremont Avenue
Crosstown Line (G)-Classon Avenue
Queens Blvd. Line (G)(R)(V)-63rd Drive/Rego Park
Now, if that's not creepy, I don't know what is. Oh wait, Chambers Street. :)
Mezzanine at Bedford-Nostrand is a VAST expanse of emptiness.
Halloween (and the demise of the 9) isn't for another 59 dias...
Any station south of 59th st/4th Ave in Brooklyn, AND has all or a portion of the station outdoors.
Don't have AIM, eh? Download it free @ www.aim.com!
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Thanks
--Z--
Upcoming Events link on the homepage of this site
Thank you
--Z--
Suffice it to say that those were the dates that the equipment and personnel were available. No schedule will satisfy everyone. Hopefully we'll see some more trips later in the year, after all the holidays.
OTOH, a trip that takes place every year conflicting with a holiday is no big deal, there's always another year.
Moo?
Unfortunately many of us pay monthly web space fees, so not maintaining the site but keeping it up still costs money. Its one of them things about the web that suck. :)
Amen. That's why I took nycsubway.net when I saw it was available. I did it in a fit of pique when I say that nychistory.org, which had been a site maintained by the Museum of the City of New York became when of theose &^%^&%!!! search engines when it dropped. Now nycsubway.net at least points to my links page.
I'll be happy to point it here if you want it, Dave.
(Note that this predates the blackout.)
There's one similar at Willets Pt Blvd, but when I saw it it didn't work too well. It said "Main St (7) in 19 minutes" when I got there, the (7) arrived in about 15. Sometimes it counted too slow, sometimes too fast. Guess they have yet to perfect it.
And it has an annoying "bing" sound when it changed. Not that anyone knew what it meant.
The system is long overdue. I say this a few days after having spent 10 minutes poised on the staircase at 50/8 waiting for a C or an E, and then another 7-8 minutes waiting for an A at Hoyt (I gave up my seat on an R-38 so I could stand in a hot station and then stand on a crowded R-44 and not even catch up).
In addition to giving ETA's, the signs at express stations should indicate how far one needs to be traveling before the express is estimated to get there first. In my case last week, the sign could have said something like USE C TO EUCLID. That would have gotten people to their destinations sooner and reduced the crowds on that A train, which I don't think passed a single C on its entire run.
And how many NYers do you think are likely to take that advice. Pretty much everyone wants the express, they don't think that the local can save any time under any condition.
I've actually seen the system in operation once or twice. Delays were very rare. My guess is if such a system were used by NYCT then chalk dust would become as big an environmental hazard as steel dust.
Forget the chalk. If it takes a half hour to get the message to the S/A's at the system's busiest station, the blackboards will never be used.
And you would have kids (and probably adults in this city too) erasing the board thinking it was funny.
"The eastbound train to Patchogue, scheduled to depart Oakdale at Three Twenty Eight, has been reported at The East Side of Jamaica operating Two Minutes Early."
The messages are "posted" every 10 minutes or so at the stations. This system is usually accurate and timely with the announcements. It's not 100 percent foolproof but it works very well.
Robert
Was I on your train?
I was in error. The advisory said that it was to open at 5am Monday. It opened only three hours early. My mistake.
Gotcha! :)
avid
And station incandescents usually don't cast rings from lens flare cuz they're not bright enough - at least I don't see any in the older photos on this site.
Subtle cues to indicate its not real. Although honestly I didn't know when the yellow edge was first used.
If that really was a photo of 76 St and the station really existed, I DON'T THINK your post would put the issue "to rest." On the contrary, I think it would create much more interest in the station, and generate countless more posts on the subject.
BTW, is that the Lunar Module on the left?
Its got a Euclid Ave.-like scheme: Green 5"x10" (more like Grant Ave.) tiles with a slightly brighter purple color band.
But cutely done.
- No flourescent lighting. All stations east of B-ENY had them since day #1
- I doubt 76th St would have a full curtain wall, as no local stations west of Euclid do
- This photo appears to be computer generated
All these facts seem to indicate that this is not the famed 76th St. station. Maybe I'm wrong. The debate rages on.
Nice job, though. To "The Big Bad," what program did you use?
Really? Well I'll be ...
Not over this, it doesn't. Big Bad has already said twice the picture's a joke.
Hmmm... I wonder if they're planning this for HTML 4.5
Oops, I guess I botched on the flourescents, eh?
> - I doubt 76th St would have a full curtain wall, as no local stations west of Euclid do
It doesn't have a full wall. The wall actually starts about 1 foot below platform level, but its so dark its really indistinguishable from the roadbed.
But all this is computer generated? Wow. [I thought was just a really dark, blurry shot.] How long did it take you to do that?
If it was me, I would've just combined elements of 67 Ave, Liberty Ave, and Roosevelt Ave lower level photos [don't have any of those photos, though]. I'm lazy. :)
Yeah I realized the error in that statement later. The tile orientation is like Euclid but the coloring is like Grant, with the color band of Euclid.
> But all this is computer generated?
Yup. About 2 hours: 1 to design, 1 fiddling around with renders so it didn't look too fake.
Anyway, real nice. :)
Will you model my 40-foot articulated cars for me (without the haze)? You're good!
> Will you model my 40-foot articulated cars for me (without the haze)?
When I'm done with the R-1 :)
--Z--
An island platform was easier to make :-P COnsidering it was a joke I wasn't putting that much effort into it.
Ok, no more jokes. Geez.
Ok, maybe one more :)
Same design, but should be more acceptable for use as this station. Although IIRC the station is untiled.
http://toogoodreports.com/column/general/weyrich/20030828.htm
I am not a conservative, certainly not a Paul Weyrich conservative, but I am disturbed that conversations with more liberal friends in the last year or so all seem to boil down to that "Bush is evil" and "the Republicans are evil." This is not a winning political philosophy.
By the way, I didn't know until yesterday that you publish The Third Rail. It is a wonderful journal; I thank you for sharing it with us and keep up the good work!
Well, of course, but I wonder that noone is aware that it makes it difficult to have any kind of political discussion about an issue if you are not a Democratic or Republican true believer.
By the way, I didn't know until yesterday that you publish The Third Rail. It is a wonderful journal; I thank you for sharing it with us and keep up the good work!
Why, thanks, Ron! How did you happen to find out I was connected to The Third Rail?
The middle issues use Adobe GoLive, which has adequate site management, some handy tools so I don't have to become an expert in everything, and gives me much easier graphic design and control. It also makes it easy for me to switch between the GUI and HTML for tweaking and trouble shooting. It also helps me find dead links and errors. I use CSS for text formatting.
Mostly, where I use PHP or other scripting (not on The Third Rail site) I either write it myself or tweak something available.
However, I come from a traditional graphics background, and I'm always looking for something that will let me design something like the print design I'm used to. For the Stillwell article, all but the cover was done with QuarkXpress 6.0. This has been the absolute best in getting the design to show up the way I want it, in both IE and NS. The problem is that 6.0 (and probably 7.0 as well) is really a design tool only. It has no site management at all to speak of, and very few bells and whistles, and is not really ready for prime time.
But I've been using Quark for a decade, so there was almost zero learning curve, so I love it anyway for the nice result. In case anyone is interested in using Quark in this way, a few pointers. It's an expensive program, especially if you're only using it for web design. After I do the page in Quark, I open the resulting HTML in GoLive to tweak it, fix the CSS classes, and do the site management. You can then maintain the site in GoLive (or I guess Dreamweaver would work, since Quark generates straight HTML and CSS) but the changes you have to make in GoLive don't work backwards to Quark. This means that if you want to make sure everything is up-to-date when you make a change, you either have to make the change to both the Quark and GoLive documents if it's a simple change, or, if it isn't, make all the changes in Quark, reimport into GoLive, refix the code and layout, and then republish it.
Ordinary people have grievances with conservative policies. And liberal policies.
Sorry, but anger at the other party doesn't work except for those who are committed to their own party anyway. You can whip yourself into any kind of frenzy you like, but you still have one vote.
Democrats thought anger over the 2000 election was going to deliver Florida into their hands for sure in 2002. And for certain the House. And maybe even the Senate. Didn't work that way, did it?
I haven't read his opinions, but might he like mass transit for the reasons I use when I want to really tick off "environmental" liberals and "pro-market" conservatives alike? That mass transit was a product of the market, but our auto-oriented transporation system was only made possible by government intervention on a massive scale -- because the auto requires so much land for movement and parking that it would not have been possible in developed areas otherwise?
But, as I've said, I've seen transit grow from being a politically polarized issue to being a bread-and-butter issue for many politicians on both sides of the aisle.
I rarely fail to point out to conservatives and libertarians that transit was traditionally planned, built and operated by private enterprise, whereas highways were spread by the governments socialistic use of the taxpayers' money and eminent domain.
Very good!
Redbirds aren't beloved by everyone...
I actually compiled a little data on that score, from the census bureau's Historical Statistics of the United States. Today, or course, transit is a deeply subsidized ward of the state, while the auto (if environmental and land costs are ignored) is not. Back when the road system was being built, however, the cost of federal, state and local road construction and maintenence was far higher than highway-related revenues such as gas taxes and tolls. And, at the time railroads and even transit was profitable and taxed!
And taxed.
Can't we take advantage of his arguments and then conveniently forget to tell Mom she's not supposed to be either in the kitchen, at the PTA meeting, or waiting naked in bed? Maybe Paul will be too busy to notice...
OTOH, as a parent, I have seen a lot of the wreckage of the fact that in rightly saying that women should be able to achieve what they can, we have absolutely devalued the skills of raising children, one of society's most important and also most badly neglected tasks.
Talking about throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
In the post I responded to, I should have removed not from the first sentence. I meant to say, Let's use Paul Weyrich for transit advocacy and toss out the woman as homemaker, cook and sex provider part.
I agree about the wreckage, but not sure about the cause. It seems that 40 years ago (though to a far less than the universal extent now assumed) men and women were locked into narrow roles. Good news -- at least SOMEONE went out and earned a living and SOMEONE was with the kids, like it or not. A lessening of rigidity worked for better and worse.
In some families fathers became more involved in the household than before, balancing the added presence of mothers in the workplace. For example, my wife and I both worked part time when the children were young; most fathers I know had similar arrangments. Of course, we both worked full time before the children, are pretty much working full time now, and will work even more when they are grown. In contrast, my father worked so many hours I almost never saw him; my mother, a good student, didn't go to college, left work at marriage, and always resented it. She was very bored when the kids left.
On the other hand, in other parents the father (or sperm provider) disappeared and the mother pretty much did too, especially after society was no longer willing to support them at home.
So when people make their own decisions, you get a variety of results.
Back OT -- one result of mothers in the workforce is two cars in the family rather than one, and non-work trips organized around the car rather than the neighborhood. In early suburbs, people walked and biked to school, park, store. Not now.
My point was that we have glorified the work world, so that women can now enjoy the same boring dead-end jobs to get by that men have.
Though it didn't necessarily have to follow, we also denigrated women's traditional work, especially raising children. I'm not saying we denigrated the women doing the work, we denigrated the actual work itself.
Now a lot of people seem to think that raising children isn't very important, or very skilled, or a very worthy thing to do, and society (and the children) has paid the price.
Again, Im not sure I see it where I live and among the people I know. What I see is, if anything, overparenting compared to my own youth. Far more paranoia about just the right food, environment, mentally stimulative play, school and curriculum. Far too much adult directed activity.
I think there was a big shift from the front end of the baby boom -- the 1960s folks -- to the back end, my generation, which really grew up in a different world. For example, college educated people in my generation had children significantly younger, leading to a double shot birth peak in the early 1990s. Women in my generation didn't feel the need to "assault" the workplace -- that was already established and assumed. And the men who went on to become good parents fully expected to be #1 or 1A in their children's life. That was already established too.
So, lots of women stayed home when their children were young, at least part of the time, with neither criticism nor regret. Many men did also. You just don't see the legendary "power couple" with a nanny from 6 am to 8 pm. Maybe it's Brooklyn vs. Manhattan and the burbs.
It's really pathetic the way so many parents are grossly overprotective of their ankle biters. Today, if little Johnny gets a black eye in a schoolyard tussle, Mom and Dad call the police on the other kid, arrange for Johnny to get psychological counseling to deal with the emotional trauma, and sue the school for negligent supervision. A generation ago, they would've yelled at Johnny for being a wimp and losing the fight.
My daughter will be going into the 6th grade. As she did last year and half of the year before, she will walk to and from school with our 4th grader, in part through the subway to avoid a difficult intersection. None of their friends will walk to school unescorted. Wait until the other parents here about transit training at age 12.
What we have heard from older parents is that at a certain point it's just "bye Mom and Dad" and that's it. No transition, no gradual development, no learning, no working on it. Sometimes I wonder if these folks understand that they are supposed to be raising adults, not children.
Not everyone on Long Island lives in school districts where the parents work at power jobs, have a succession of nannies with limited English and take their children to therapists while they go to their chiropractor appointments.
Your older daughter must be what, 11? It's really sad that parents of other children her age won't let them walk to school alone. Back in my day ...
That is the overstatement of the year.
Deviant adults (both sexes, BTW) are the monority in the world, but because it's lurid, it get the media attention and gets blown out of all proportion.
They aren't hiding behind every lamppost, even if the media makes it look that way. Same for those who steal from their employer.
My wife and I (two worker family) successfully raised two adult daughters, who are making their way in the world.
Folks ... PLEASE rent the movie "NETWORK" ... sit down, make some popcorn and WATCH it ... I spent most of my LIFE working in "the MEDIA" both in front of, and behind the camera/microphone. NETWORK is truth ... what you're being fed now is NOT ... LEARN the difference!
And Unca Dan ... I *know* YOU know the difference, you merely provided the stimulus for me to say this to OTHERS. :)
We're really going off topic here, but as a Catholic also the problem isn't that a few priests went bad. That has been true for centuries, the subject of numerous jokes in the middle ages. The source of outrage is weak leadership combined with arrogance by the bishops, who just hoped the problem would go away and caused additional victimizations to occur.
Getting back to walking to school, it is a real issue, and relates to transit. The percentage of children walking to school has plunged in the past 40 years, while the percent being driven has soared. In the suburbs you'd expect that -- many newer ones are built without sidewalks. Moreover, when I was in college at Colgate virtually no one has a car. Today, in affluent suburbia, many teens have their own.
But in Brooklyn? We lived here to get away from all that, to give our children the opportunity to transition to adulthood with increasing independence WITHOUT the car.
In fairness, in Brooklyn today you've got "yuppies," college graduates who moved in from elsewhere, immigrants, and a few "townies," folks who grew up in the borough and stayed. You have a lot of "townies," in Windsor Terrace and at the kids Catholic school. These are folks who stuck it out in the bad old days, so their attitudes are understandable. And yet, crimes is down, and even immigrants and "yuppies" keep their kids on a short leash. Even in the older "bicycle suburbs," kids aren't allowed to go around anymore.
It has been said that 6-year-olds commonly travel to school alone on the Tokyo subway. Here in New York, kids twice that age can't ride by themselves.
Here's the problem. Say a year from now, when my daughter is 12, I might be willing to let her ride the subway with a friend or two. But she doesn't have a friend who will be allowed to ride the subway.
Most kids would probably find that a lot more fun than participating in some organized pay-to-play youth sports league or spending hours on the computer.
I was pretty psyched last week when I drove past my old elementary school and saw some kids playing stickball in the evening. I can remember days when I pitched 20 or 30 innings in one afternoon only to come back and do it again the next day.
CG
If anyone has seen the play or movie of Becket, about the Archbishop of Cantebury who defied the King of England and was martyred as a result, they may not be aware that the play rather glossed over an important issue. The dispute was that a member of church staff (not a priest, IIRC) murdered someone, and the secular government (i.e., the King's government) wanted to try that person. The Church claiemd the right to try the murderer themselves, thereby setting themselves up as a goevrnmental power in their own right.
What happened in the recent case was a secular crime, just as in Mediaeval England, but the Church decided to handle it themselves, something that would not be allowed any secular organization.
Somehow though, I'd personally prefer to lay prostrate before the Bishop than before Jerry Fallwell. Just a personal thing, ya see. Heh.
I applaud the Massachusetts Attorney General for forcefully saying that the church's organization will be held accountable by secular authorities here in the US.
Colleges, actually, have tried to paper over things like sexual assault by discouraging students from going to law enforcement, and relying on disciplinary boards to "try" cases.
If a crime is committed against any member of my family on campus, I promise the police will be involved regardless of what the college says.
If a crime is committed against any member of my family on campus, I promise the police will be involved regardless of what the college says.
I absolutely agree with you on that and wish you the best of the luck. I hope you never have occasion to test it, but remember that most college students are legally adults and if they succumb to the college's pressure to handle an issue "nonjudicially" I'm not certain there is anything you can do.
When we moved my stepdaughter to college (SUNY Stony Brook) a couple of days ago, I was somewhat surprised to see handouts in the dorm that listed all reported crimes on campus during the past three years. Apparently there's a federal law requiring this disclosure. There were a whole bunch of other handouts too, topics like how to avoid getting AIDS, recognizing dangerous mind control cults (does railfanning count?), the dangers of bulimia (rumor has it that scarf & barf parties are all the rage among college girls today), why you shouldn't gobble magic mushrooms, that sort of stuff. Anyway, Stony Brook looked remarkably crime-free from the handouts, though to some extent that may represent low reporting rates.
"recognizing dangerous mind control cults (does railfanning count?)
Of course it does (beware the secret Arnine ritual)
:0)
In the growing up years of my young daughters, I ran into a number of adults acting inappropriately in places where children were, both in city and suburban settings, often directly in or near children's playgrounds or schools. Time was, those people would be at least challenged, or quickly identified and ousted and warned. Now I've heard advocates saying "what are they really doing. You can't tell someone where they sit or stand in a public place."
The New York Times recently had a gratuitous editorial in which they expressed a fear of the growing number of "Amber Alert" laws. They fear that vigilantes will start catching and harming innocent people. Have you heard of a single example of this happening? But are you aware that, though murder of abducted children is exceedingly rare (about 1/2 of 1 percent of all murders, about 1 incident in every 10,000 missing child reports each year) this still amounts to 100 children a year. (Source: Christine O. Gregoire, Attorney General of Washington [State] and U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention)
If one-tenth that number of convicted child molesters were murdered by vigilantes, there would be a national press uproar.
This situation doesn't apply to the fact that we should have the right to tell even a harmless adult "this is a child's playground. If you are not accompanying a child, you may not loiter in or near it."
Play areas in NYC parks have signs warning "No adults except in the company of a child."
Now the signs are small and can be easy to miss. I read a story a while back, in the NYPress I believe, of a male NYU student who sat on an open bench in a play area in Washington Square Park, not noticing the sign, and within minutes found himself being grilled by the police. They basically accused him of being Chester the Molestor personnified and refused to believe him when he said that he didn't notice the sign. The hapless student ended up with a trespassing citation, and the cops made it clear that they were sorry he couldn't be charged with anything else.
I'll bet you anything that a female NYU student in the same position wouldn't have been treated anywhere near as harshly, if indeed the cops bothered her at all. So much for gender equality :(
Yes, there could be more to the story. It's not easy for me to admit that, given the way I have come to think about the NYPD in the aftermath of 9/11, but it's fairly evident that the student in question may have had an incentive to skew the story in a particular way. Moreover, while the NYPress (which I believe was the source of the story) is entertaining, it may not follow the same journalistic standards as some other news outlets.
Getting back on-topic, I was thinking about the news story a month or so ago - which led to some particularly vitriolic debate on Subtalk - about the pregnant woman who claimed that she was humilitated and cited by cops at Times Square station. Has there been any follow-up on the story?
I saw the DVD of Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine this past weekend. Moore, who's of course an uber-liberal, went through all sorts of logical convolutions to make welfare reform responsible for the (supposed) recent rash of school shootings. He cited a case in Michigan in which a 6-year-old fatally shot a classmate, using reasoning (if you can call it that) which went approximately as follows: Welfare reform forces Mom to work. Mom doesn't make enough money. Mom and kiddies get evicted. Mom sends 6-y.o. to stay with his uncle while she tried to sort out matters. Uncle has gun. 6-y.o. finds gun. 6-y.o. brings gun to school and shoots classmate.
In short, by trying to create a link between transit use and family life patterns, Weyrich is simply engaging in the same sort of tortured logic that Michael Moore has done, except from a different political angle.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
How about "the Republicans and Democrats are both evil"? For reasons described in http://www.ipny.org/equalpro.html.
Exactly the same arguments that Bush has always used, e.g.:
- the terraceds - oops, terrorists - are evil (yes, I think that everyone except Clinton, who invited members of Sinn Fein IRA to the US, would agree with that - we could say Bush happens to be right, but the quality of argument is still pisspoor)
- anyone who looks like a terraced is evil (and therefore should be stripsearched and sent back home for not looking like they're from a ranch in TX)
- Saddam Hussein looks like a terraced (and daddy didn't like him either), so he's evil
- the French have noticed I have a crap argument, so they're evil
- French Fries include the name of the evil French, but they are not evil, so we will rename them Freedom Fries lest people think they're evil
- the UN is evil
- everyone is evil
This is not a winning political philosophy.
It's perfectly winning. Tsar Ivan IV, Hitler, Stalin, Queen Elizabeth I, Blair and Bush have all used it successfully, to name a few.
Normaly I would not respond to posts like this one.
Remarks like that scare the hell out of me!!
The rights enumurated in the Bill of Rights belong to individuals.
John
Humbug.
The economy is still in the shitter, BUSH will not be re-elected.
Sen. Shummer, D-NY announced the Bush's friends, the Saudies have cut back production of oil.
Step back and look at the picture.
Wasabie is the OFFICAL STATE religion of the Saudies, it is extremism against the west and ALL non beleivers.
The Saudies are tight with the current US administration on a PRIVATE level.
Iraq oil is a low point of production and will remain so as long as Saddam supporters and terrorist are lose in Iraq.
Its deliberate by the Bush Aministration , in an effort to tear up Alaska for more oil company profits.
avid
No, wasabe is a condiment made from pickled horseradish. Wahabism is a sect of Islam.
: )
Mark
avid
I do not want to paint a large group of people with one stroke, but this is the answer I have heard many times. It reflects frustration with the ruling elite in Riyadh.
avid
Rent the video or DVD of "Jackass" some time and watch the wasabe-snorting stunt.
The original and main attack on Saudi Arabia as potential enemy has come from solid conservatives, such as Dan Quayle, Newt Gingrich and in the office of VP Cheney.
(1) NYC has more subways and commuter rails than anywhere else in North America, so there are relatively few medium-density corridors where light rail would make sense. Most NY/NJ rail routes are so heavy that light rail would not have the capacity.
(2) While of course it's true that most of the heavy bus routes in Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Manhattan were once trolley routes, it's also true that to simply run trolleys in mixed traffic without any priority signals or lane reservations is what doomed most trolley routes to bus conversions 50+ years ago. And since it's extremely unlikely that governments would provide the initial heavy capital investments to restore light rail (substations, power distribution, tracks, yards, shops), it's not really worth the time to dream about restoring trolleys to NY. It's not going to happen.
While I am definitely a pro-light rail person, I also recognize what I call "the realm of reality" - surface transit routes in NYC will continue to be bus for a long time into the future.
One reason given me was that light rail was too "sexy," meaning that there was too much competition for federal funding, and that the state preferred to get its rail money for subways and commuter rail.
For the city, light rail would mean another type of equipment to manage, and a different infrastructure to maintain. You have no idea how conservative the city is those respects.
Trying to simulate the capacity and advantages of light rail with armies of buses in mixed traffic is no picnic either.
So, honestly, what would you expect. Not even the Third Avenue Railway System with its nice-&-neat third-rail system could survive the ravages of National City Lines and, indeed, the mode of transportation that Fifth Avenue first embraced (here is an example of what ran on 5th Avenue back as far as 1917).
BTW, if anyone wishes to speculate about the possible survival of the TARS as a streetcar system, does anybody think that we would have eventually seen third-rail PCC cars on there…?
1977..."Guide-a-Ride" signs debut at city bus stops.
Peace,
ANDEE
1. First train over the north side of the Manhattan Bridge
2. First train through South Ferry
3. First train into and out of Exchange Place
4. First train over the realigned northbound (L)
Btw, the R-42 set, north motor #4842 and south motor #4864.
Sorry, no pics.
Did I miss your 100th Birthday party?
I bet they were working overtime. :0)
Jimmy
Chuck Greene
Bill "Newkirk"
Chapter 11 Choo Choo (Lyrics)
www.railfanwindow.com
Huh? Works fine for me.
1. It removes the Elevated Structure and gives surface stations, the Main Terminal area would act as a transportation hub, where busses could terminate there as well,
2. This would make the area very attractive to businesses that want customers, since a lot of people would use that the terminal to go to Manhattan.
3. Light Rail was destined for the Rockaway’s, all we need is two tracks and a 2 track terminal at both ends, and the Rockaway Beach Yard would serve as the Light Rail Yard.
4. It's easier for a direct Rockaway Trip, meaning going from one area of the Rockaways to the other side.
The Light Rail Line would run 4 cars during the rush hours and 2 cars other times. During Rush Hours 9 trains would be running the line. providing about 4 to 5 minute headways maximum. During Evenings and Weekends it would run every 15 minutes. At Nights, once every 30 minutes.
Its Stops Would be
Beach 116 Street
Beach 105 Street
Beach 98 Street
Beach 90th
Hammels Wye Terminal (Transfer to the New A Train Terminal)
Beach 73 Street
Beach 68 Street
Beach 60 Street
Beach 44 Street
Seagirt Blvd
Beach 25th Street (Oceancrest Blvd)
Mott Avenue
Namaoke Avenue (If Possible) (Transfer to the L.I.R.R)
The Light Rail Line would use Catenary’s to get it's power, 3rd Rail is Too Dangerous for a Ground Level Line, but the Light Rail Cars would come with 3rd Rail Shoes so that if they need servicing at Coney Island they can use the subway to get there. Paying would be through turnstiles at the station but there would be cross bridges. Since the Light Rail would have its own Right Of Way all the Light Rail needs would be light adjusting so that when it's approaching a road it can change the lights ahead so that it would be red.
I think it's a smart approach for an area like the Rockaways and could boost its economy dramatically by promoting trans-rockaway travel.
Tell me what you think
And how would this save money for NYCT? The elevated line is already there. First you'd have NYCT money to tear it down and replace it; then you'd have NYCT spend more money to run more frequent service than currently runs.
Running fewer cars doesn't save much. Labor is expensive. And, yes, maintaining an elevated structure is expensive, too, but so is maintaining a dedicated fleet of LRV's, with a dedicated yard and maintenance facility of their own, with no flexibility to shift cars elsewhere.
If you want to improve service and reduce costs, develop a way to quickly couple and decouple cars at a station. Then, instead of sending A's to Far Rock and shuttles to Rock Park, A trains could split in half at Broad Channel.
I want to look at this from an economical standpoint: 44,000 passengers is terrible enough as it was, does it require 8 car R-44's? No, a nice 4 car LRV will do just as well. Also with a Hammels Wye Terminal that is close to the Jamaica Bay Bridge businesses will be compelled to build there because of how many people would use the transfer, and that it's easy to get too. Rockaways could be very economically viable if something was there. If it works out well, an amusement park may not be far off if the commerical development is already there, that would boost the economy more and bring housing there. It's a simple concept but what it could do as an effect is great.
Sometimes a major investement can pay off well. Also if you shop, most people would go into the city, what if due to the commerical boom a macy's or another major department store was built on one side of the rockaways, the LRV would allow movement from one side of the pennisula to the other.
I agree that there's no need for full-length trains in the Rockaways. There's no need for full-length trains at the end of pretty much any line except in Queens, but it's generally cheaper and less intrusive to run the extra cars through to the end anyway.
Cross-peninsula travel is handled more than adequately by the existing bus service, and I'm sure that almost everyone who lives on the Rockaways has a car, anyway. What makes the Rockaways unattractive to many are the long trips to the rest of the city. Forcing everyone on the Far Rock branch to make an additional transfer isn't going to help anyone.
"Cross-peninsula travel is handled more than adequately by the existing bus service,"
I would be in favor of adding a second track connecting the peninsula's rail branches together, and running a bidirectional cross peninsula train service.
"and I'm sure that almost everyone who lives on the Rockaways has a car, anyway."
Did you include the residents of public housing?
By the way, you don't save a dime with light rail. The Rockaways are also subject to occasional flooding from storms, which is why the lines are elevated in the first place.
Agreed.
By the way, you don't save a dime with light rail. The Rockaways are also subject to occasional flooding from storms, which is why the lines are elevated in the first place.
Interesting point! That hadn't occurred to me.
The large number of public housing units on the peninsula's eastern end will make any redevelopment a difficult feat, no matter how well-intentioned or skilled the developers may be.
I remember when I was about 4 or 5, living on Beach 100th Street. About 1959 or so. There was flooding due to a hurricane, I think. We lived close to Rockaway Freeway, on top of which ran the train line. I remember how the ocean definitely came up and flooded the streets, going past Rockaway Beach Blvd., up the side streets and going under the el. The water was definitely a couple of feet high. First floors were flooded; we lived on the second floor.
Funny. There was a Gambino family (but they were part American Indian, I think) next door. They had chicken coops, grape vines. And a cool tire swing hung from a tree branch. We used to climb on top of a shed to grab the tire and get a real high swing going. Right in the shadow of that elevated structure.
But the Rockaways are in Queens... (sorry, couldn't resist!)
The C/R of the 600-foot train would become the T/O of the new 300-foot train. (Yes, that means he'd really be a T/O, and he'd have to be paid as much as a T/O even when he's not operating.)
Would that really be cheaper than employing extra T/O's to operate the 2nd portion of trains from Broad Channel to whichever side gets the rear portion? Remember also that the T/O who's already the T/O would have to be payed more because of the OPTO bit.
This is a part of the argument against installing light rail on 42nd Street.
New Jersey does a lot better with it, because a significant portion of NJ Transit's assets are LRT-related and the agency has decades of experience with it.
While it might be a reasonable late night compromise, it isn't during the day.
Agreed. It has its time and place; there are excellent light rail systems operating all over the world in medium sized cities, and in secondary roles in larger cities.
And certainly you must NEVER replace existing heavy-rail with light rail—that is not LRT’s raison d’être.
Never say never. A frequent LRT service can be a great replacement for an infrequent heavy rail service.
The problem with this proposal is that it (necessarily) only replaces part of an existing heavy rail service, and thus forces additional transfers.
Never say never. A frequent LRT service can be a great replacement for an infrequent heavy rail service
And a frequent heavy-rail service can be a great replacement for an infrequent heavy-rail service at much lower capital costs. This brings to mind some of the mindless proposals I have heard, such as “replace Princeton Junction Shuttle with light rail”, “replace NJT Atlantic City train with light rail”, “replace SIR heavy-rail with light rail plus reopen North Shore SIR with light rail and connect to HBLRT”, stuff like that…
And a frequent heavy-rail service can be a great replacement for an infrequent heavy-rail service
Both equally true statements. The principal issue becomes what added value the conversion brings to the riders.
In the case of this particular suggestion, the added value was negative, because it proposed a conversion of one part of a line and hence forced an extra transfer for many riders.
In other cases, where the flexibility of light rail allows the extension (rather than cut-back and fragmentation) of the previous heavy rail service, then the resulting reduction of transfers and increased journey opportunities can yield the opposite result.
Why not just send the shuttle from Beach 116th st to Far Rock station(LIRR) instead. A hell of a lot and preserves a one seat ride for A riders to the Rockaways.
Also, what I really think they oughta do, is bring the LIRR Far Rock line to the A, and run it below the elevated structure to Beach116th st, and have only limited stops. That way, when the N-s(OB to Far Rock) is constructed(if it ever is), then the line can go all the way to Rockaway Beach, while subways are still running above it.
If I am wrong about that, someone feel free to correct me.
You win, bro. That's the best typo I've seen here in many moons. Why, as we sit here reading and typing, it keeps going `round and `round in my head.
The A train from the Rockaways primarily carries passengers to Manhattan, where driving is not a practical option and where bus service would be slow and very expensive to provide.
Perhaps a bus route should be extended into Nassau, but a rail line is a waste of money that could be better used elsewhere.
At least, the gap between Mott Ave subway station and Far Rockaway LIRR station could, at some future date be filled. It would offer a new passenger rail corridor with relatively litle new construction required. There is always hope for the Rockaway Penninsula anyway. The oceanside location will not remain fallow forever. It is not beyond the realm of probability that this reconnection would work well.
Sorry about this.
I was NOT even thinking of going.... till your post put the idea in my bulkhead and I decided to roll with it.
Would have been nice to see my fellow 34-hour spelunker.
::sigh:: Close, but no cigar. :)
I'm booked like Madonna*Britney.
(Yesh, I'm still going)
Also, it just occurred to me, regarding the Flushing line and train service to LaGuardia; why not ramp the Flushing Line down to the yard, and into 63rd St., and then of course, use the Steinway tubes for a new LaGuardia line? This removes the problem of my earlier suggestion of diverting Flushing line through 60th St. There is much more capacity in 63rd, especially once lower 2nd Av. opens. The V for instance could become Flushing-Church Av. and be replaced on Queens Blvd. with the new 2nd Av. line. Or the other way around. You could also divide it with the expresses down one line and the locals down another.
Those tracks are for the East Side Access project, but they don't go to the 63 Street tunnel. They're for the replacement Yard A (Arch Street Yard). The building will house the Arch Street Shops.
Mark
Thank You
Not NYCTA, but one of its MTA siblings.
The tracks in LIRR "Yard A" at Sunnyside, which hadn't really been put to good use recently anyway, have been removed. This is for the East Side Access project, which will put the LIRR through the lower level of the 63 Street tunnel.
A new yard and shop will be going in as part of the project. There will also be a station, but it will be located on the existing mainline tracks south of the torn-up yard in question, and will serve Penn Station trains. Access will be from the east side of the Queens Boulevard/Plaza viaduct over Sunnyside.
Mark
So, in effect, there is going to be a new, improved version of the Hunterspoint Avenue LIRR station. With better service options. Who'd a thunk it? That will make the Queens Plaza area much more attractive as a place of development and growth. I like this station idea. The railfan in me likes the idea of walking under a multi track el train-covered boulevard to a stairway that leads down to a completely different railroad system. And being as it's L.I.C., the "guts" of the place will be much more evident. Which is why I compared it to Hunterspoint Avenue rather than Woodside, a denser urban setting.
Jimmy
Jimmy ;)
This is the R110A...
Click here for R110A Update in the SubTalk Past...
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
is an R142.
This site has the T, U, and X bullets colored in blue. I thought they were white with black font bullets?
Could you email me please because it's important, my email is working as I purged some spam messages out.
Start here
R10 Roster
-Dave
Your guess is good as mine why the crews did it back then some 23 years ago, and I still do not have a valid answer why was such the case. By the way, I was out there photographing the R-10's out in the Rockaways on that very bitterly cold Saturday, and the heaters at Broad Channel station were still not enough to keep me warm that day.
-William A. Padron
[The "R-10" Pyramid]
I guess that is classed as an oddbird.
The R-10's on my all-time favorite route, the IND "A" line, were just an amazing combination that just clicked together and were a long lasting association that still holds up to this day. As I said once after the 1989 E.R.A. "farewell" fantrip, there will never be another subway car model like the R-10's ever, and I for one will not follow to have another favorite car type present or future in my lifetime.
-William A. Padron
[Welcome to "Toonheads"]
One line I did not have the opportunity to ride the R-10's on was for the Aqueduct Racetrack special, but I remember seeing the *real* #3348 as the north motor end in the lower level of 42nd Street-8th Avenue in the late 1970's. I have been also on all three E.R.A. chartered fantrips using the cars as well (October 23, 1976; June 8, 1986 and October 29, 1989).
-William A. Padron
["Mott Av.-Far Rockaway"]
BTW chances are my Jeep will hit 500,000 miles by this time next month. I figure on reaching 498,000 this Friday.
It was determined by NYC Transit that rebuilding one R-10 car back at 1975's prices would have been more than the cost of purchasing one new R-46 car, so that is why #3192 was not completely done. The car's interior was planned to be like the R-44's with a full width T/O's operating cab.
-William A. Padron
[Here's Your First Subject...Go!]
Jimmy
Only 30 R-10's (3320-3349) were involved. They were assigned in the fall of 1954 to familiarize Jamaica line crews in anticipation of the January 1955 arrival of the R-16's.
All of the R-16's were originally assigned to ENY Yard.
Strangely enough, I only ever remember 2 eight car trains in service at any one time. Those two trains seemed to be in service 24/7, and were quite a contrast to the rest of the fleet which was all Standards. They even continued to use the R-10's even after the R-16's were put in service.
I suppose that the other 14 R-10 cars were used for spares or getting maintenance.
-William A. Padron
[Don't Miss Our Next Episode...]
Incidentally, today marks 36 years since I rode at the railfan window for the first time. It was on either a CC or D train. We were supposed to catch an A at 59th St. to get to 42nd, and an A train was sitting on the s/b express track as we reached the platform, just waiting for us to board. However, I didn't know at the time that those nifty teal-and-white cars ran only on the A then, and besides I couldn't spot the roofline signs. We let it go and as the last car went by, I saw the A on the rear route sign and said out loud (I remember this as though it were yesterday), "What luck! THAT was an A train!" When that CC train pulled in, we piled in.
It was also on this date 23 years ago that I paid my last visit to New York before heading out west to Colorado. Although I didn't ride on any R-10s that day, I did see an R-10 consist on the E line.
The outside door triggers and side roll sign boxes on the R-10's were also common on the R-12/14's and R-11's. In terms of the latter, I have seen a current similar signage design nowadays on SEPTA's Market-Frankford M-4 cars (but digital) and a really but larger original box design on WMATA's Rohr-built cars.
Besides, I could recall that the print type on the lower numbered BMT AB Standards were just about the same as the R-10's thru the R-14's. I might add also when there was a massive roll sign replacement for all R-17 through R-38 subway cars in the 1980's, their type face printing in the inside (interior) position were sometimes hard or small to look at with their two-line terminal or route readings centered to the left.
-William A. Padron
[via "Wash. Hts.-8th Av. Exp."]
How fast did they go?
AFAIK their balancing speed was 45 mph. Of course, on the close confines of a tunnel, they seemed to be going even faster, which I dare say was in fact the case along CPW.
David
My farewell ride and I did not even realize it.
This was a rehab R-10
Escapes me why we didn't just take the 1 at 59 but I'm glad we
went to the A because that was the last time I rode an r10..
Tho I always thought the r10/12/14 were THE SAME cartype.... thanks to this
site, I see they're not (one extra doorset).
I just watched and enjoyed the site, but I had to get to work, so there was not any time for fun.
The final ultimate R-10 ride forever was on the "farewell" fantrip chartered by the E.R.A. on Sunday, October 29, 1989, and the eight-car consist of green GOH's (#3018-3203-3182-2974-3143-3045-3145-3216) went on many IND/BMT division routes including the Archer Avenue and 63rd Street lines. Not only that was my last ever R-10 ride (as well as of the 250 passengers on that fantrip), it was the final time that the cars were operated ever again.
-William A. Padron
[The "R-10" Pyramid]
Jimmy
A link to the release is below...
(It would be nice if SEPTA would issue an release to customers too....but that might be too much for them
http://www.njtransit.com/ta_adjustment_project.jsp?ID=699
But it's only for one month so it's not bad in terms of duration of the SEPTA project.
All that is stated is that SEPTA R7 trains would experience delays getting in and out of Trenton due to Amtrak track work. It is amusing, however, that NJ Transit claims that their ability to maintain the connection to the R7 will be impeded despite the fact that no NJT trains will be delayed by the construction…
Chuck Greene
http://www.kyw1060.com/news_story_detail.cfm?newsitemid=31789
Light Rail Service Begins Running In Camden
by KYW's Ed Kasuba
If you've been in downtown Camden lately, you've probably noticed light rail line cars running in the city.
It's all in preparation for the beginning of light rail service between Camden and Trenton this fall.
Ken Miller of New Jersey Transit outlines what's taking place:
"Right now we're doing a fairly significant shakeout of the system itself. This includes a testing of the infrastructure and the equipment and how it integrates with one another."
The light rail line will operate along the streets of Camden from the PATCO Broadway station to Rutgers-Camden and then on the waterfront, where service ends at the Tweeter Center.
There are plans to keep the line operating in Camden late at night.
Service to Trenton will end at 10pm each night.
Looks like NJT could not get around the FRA waiver to permit these diesel-powered LRVs to operate on the Bordentown Secondary between 10pm and 6am.
IMHO, this ought to have been done as a heavy-rail line, using the old PRR connection to the Northeast Corridor at Trenton—that way, new LRT vehicles need not have been used, plus the existing Trenton station on the NEC could also be used, and there would even have been a possibility of running express diesel trains into Newark/Hoboken and maybe further possibility of running trains to Philadelphia via the Delair Bridge or even running to/from Atlantic City via the “Nellie Bly” PRR train routing.
The only impediments to doing heavy-rail would be the almost-street-running in Burlington, where the track runs through the center of Broad Street but the ballast and ties are exposed (this would restrict heavy-rail trains to 10 mph, versus LRVs being permitted to do the speed limit of the roadway), and also rebuilding a heavy-rail alignment within Camden versus the far-cheaper street-running alignment that currently exists.
To take people to the parking lot at 36th Street station. Parking there and riding the SNJLRT to the Tweeter Center would be cheaper than parking at the Center, and could avoid some trafic congestion hassle.
I wouldn't expect them to run around Camden late at night other than to accommodate concert goers.
BTW: (By The Way) This is the first time you posted this message with the correct spelling and sentence structure, congrats to you. Keep up the good work Danny.
Dave, maybe you should reread his post!!!
Anyway, after stopping at Canal (grr, slow speed order) and coming up the grade, I see coming out of the Rathole Line... Redbirds! In work dress of course, but still Redbirds.
Consist: 19323, 19315, S02, 19334
Perfect. I got out the camera ready to hop off at 14th when we hit track gangs south of 8th Street. They stopped my Q and let the Redbirds go. I was P.O.ed to say the least. Finally after 3-4 minutes they let us go. The redbirds were already gone at 14th, so I kept going up.
Go past 23rd and another set of track gangs. However I see the Redbirds being held on the local track. Perfect. Set up the camera again and... damn! Track gangs let it go and hold us again. I was so annoyed and sat down, put the camera away. Didn't see the redbirds again. Pulled into 34th, nothing. So I continued to Times Square when I got off.
Started walking to the front for the transfer to the 2 and what comes rolling through on the express track (apparently had south of 34th) but the Redbirds again! Grrr... The lesson of course is never put the camera away.
But if it weren't for those stupid track gangs I'd have pics from Redbirds at Union Sq and possibly Herald Sq.
Who said the bridge is faster? There are speed restrictions on the bridge that are not in the tunnel (and vice versa).
The N going through the bypass? What bypass?
> The N going through the bypass? What bypass?
The DeKalb Avenue bypass, the one the B (W) uses to get to the bridge without stopping at DeKalb.
From Pacific to Canal via the bridge is approx. 7 minutes faster than from Pacific to Canal via the tube.
But there are 6 less stops when you go via the bridge so of course it will be faster.
More importantly, it's a WAY shorter route.
So the R33WF's are serving as motors for a signal dolly train. Why, then are two singles at one end with one on the other? When I saw S02 the day it was rumored that John Rocker (the much-hated pitcher then playing for the Atlanta Braves) was to ride the #7 line, the signal dolly motors were R22's 7307 and 7371. What's with the three motors?
But based of a typical 7 day week, I may do the following:
Monday-Friday 1 swipe to Midtown 1 swipe to Lower Manhattan (to work), 1 swipe leaving Lower Manhattan to the Bronx or Queens, 1 swipe for ride back to Brooklyn (my home borough)
On Saturdays, I average 4 to 5 uses that day. Heavy traveling and possible excursion trips may increase it to 9 to 10 uses.
On Sundays I may go out with family, so that's another 3 uses right there.
So 4 * 21 days (weekdays alone) = 84 uses and THATS NOT INCLUDING WEEKENDS EITHER.
CG
I make 2 trips to school a day, that's about 4 fares (A bus, then a subway transfer) right there. I go to school 3 days a week so that's 48 fares a month give or take.
Already a $96 dollar savings. $26 minus the cost of the card.
I also use the card on the weekends. Not to mention all the swipes you can do during a railfan trip...
I must save about $100 a month with my card.
"TROUBLE IN STORE
By CLEMENTE LISI
September 2, 2003 -- EXCLUSIVE
The Second Avenue Subway could mean the end of the line for some East Side businesses.
Commercial spaces along Second Avenue could be condemned by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to make room for station entrances, ventilation shafts and power substations for the new underground subway line, officials are warning.
The MTA needs the property for each of the line's 16 stations and has targeted several potential sites it hopes to acquire through eminent domain.
Some of the businesses that could be condemned include national chains like CVS Pharmacy and Duane Reade and popular eateries like Tony's di Napoli and Patsy's Pizzeria - which have been neighborhood staples for about a decade.
"I'm unhappy about the prospect," said Bruce Dimpflmaier, general manager of Tony's di Napoli, located near the northeast corner of 83rd Street and Second Avenue, which the MTA could replace with a station entrance.
"It's one of those things where nobody wants it in their back yard, but it has to be done somewhere."
The proposed 8.5-mile line would go from 125th Street in East Harlem to Hanover Square in the Financial District.
The $16.8 billion project is scheduled to begin next year. The MTA said it hopes to complete the project in 12 to 16 years.
Under the state's Eminent Domain Procedure Law, the MTA is allowed to condemn property it needs and would have to compensate and help relocate businesses displaced by the project.
If businesses refuse the compensation package, the agency can file a petition in court to take over the property.
Most of the properties would be needed to make room for above-ground street entrances - which in some cases would be housed inside buildings - and would include elevators because the stations will have to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Preliminary plans show each station will have two to four entrances.
"We're really looking to stay here," said Perry Falk, who owns Falk Drug and Surgical Supply, a pharmacy which has been on the northwest corner of Second Avenue and 72nd Street for 50 years.
It has been targeted as a possible entrance site.
"There's been talk of a Second Avenue Subway for years. I'm not entirely worried at this point, but I am concerned."
The MTA said streets where stations will be located have been determined, but not so the exact entrance sites.
MTA spokesman John McCarthy said the agency will not decide on the locations to buy until plans are finalized next year.
"A project this extensive will require some property acquisition," he said.
Chuck Warren, chairman of Community Board 8, which spans from East 96th to 59th streets, said he wants the MTA to "minimize the impact" the project will have on businesses in the neighborhood.
Warren said the MTA has done a good job briefing residents about any disruptions construction will cause down the line. "
Click Here
Here's the article:
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/4709.htm
This is where we need a subway version of Robert Moses. He would have found a way to get all the property the MTA needs to finish the job, while eliminating the possibility of condemnation lawsuits bogging down the project forever.
MTA is doing that right now along the route of the 7 extension to Javits. Building condemnation and so on is moving ahead, it has been reported.
That's right. The East Village NIMBY's won in advance. NYCT won't mess with them.
That's right. The East Village NIMBY's won in advance. NYCT won't mess with them.
You've got it backwards. The East Village community board and activists WANT an 8th St station. The MTA refuses to provide one because it costs too much and slows the UESers down on their way to Wall St. It looks to me like the consolation prize is entrances at 12th and 2nd Streets.
It took lots of bitching and moaning, but the East Village managed to get the 2nd Ave express bus to stop at 8th St over MTA objections.
Only because they aren't being offered one. If they had been...
You're quite right about that.
The heart of the east village is, in essence, missing the only chance it will have to get a subway station. on a cost per user basis, I would be shocked to find an SAS station to be remarkably more expensive than the UES stops.
and frankly, the UES riders can wait another stop. this is a local train they are building, not an express.
is the uptown 6 transfer to the IND 6th ave line ever going to be built?
No, an 8th St stop wouldn't be more expensive.
However, 12th to 2nd is only 10 blocks. There are bigger intervals without an entrance on the UES.
and frankly, the UES riders can wait another stop. this is a local train they are building, not an express.
That argument can be made in many places, and before you know it you have a stop every 6 blocks.
is the uptown 6 transfer to the IND 6th ave line ever going to be built?
Good question. Someone posted that it got removed from the 2004 capital plan.
In a reallocation of funds, the construction budget was removed from the 2000-04 capital plan, but the design was maintained. In effect, teh construction of the transfer was postponed in order to coordinate it with ADA access and a complete station rehab.
The design is proceeding. The plan is to build it 2005-09, and a number of big station rehabs (which were a big emphasis 2000-04) will be winding down. With the fiscal situation as it is, however, the risks to anything that has been deferred are obvious.
More NIMBY-ish whining. In the long run, having the 2nd Avenue Subway would lead to more and more business for these people from subway passengers…
--Z--
That's the plan for the first part of the SAS. The second phase has the SAS extend its main trunk down to lower Manhattan, all the way to the southern part of the financial district.
In case you all were unfamilliar with Trainorders.com, it is run by a real ASSHOLE with an ego problem who takes joy in banning anyone who disagrees with him in the "Forums" section from the site without refuld. Trainorders.com became one of the more popular rail news and forum sites on the web until its owner 1) began his Stalinesque effort to crush disagreement and 2) felt it necessary to charge people $24 a year for the privillage of being subject to his abuse. I had always felt strongly about not giving this asshole one red cent and bringing down his Standard Rail Webforum of the World and so I utilized ERN and forums like Subtalk and Railroad.net Well now it looks like Trainorders.com has put the Kibosh on its competition and will now force me to pay them money in order to get my railroad related news. A few former ERN members who had had their accounts shifted of course tried to post some threads about what had happened on the forum, but of course they were quickly taken down and replaced with this.
As some have noted that Trainorders.com will be fulfilling outstanding subscriptions of Eastern Rail News. This is not a merger, nor a buyout. Essentially Kevin will be doing the news he does on Eastern Rail News on Trainorders.com. If you ended up with double accounts email me and I will consolidate them into one.
Todd Clark
Trainorders.com
Hmm, if one site closing and having its members and services transfered to another website isn't a merger or a buyout what the heck then is it? Eliminating the competitors with savage beatings and attempted murder perhaps?
Anyway, I don't know how many of you care about this, I just have no ability to complain about it where it might do the most good. The only thing we can do as subtalkers it try to get our posting levels up to Trainorders muched hyped 20,000 to 30,000 a month.
David P's gonna love to see this...
However if it becomes TOO big there WILL be a $24.95/year charge here and if and when that ever happens I guess Jersey Mike will just have to find somewhere else to complain! :-)
Sorry to imply otherwise.
Trainorders’ much-hyped 20,000 to 30,000 (posts) a month
The only reason that Toad Klunk claims such figures is because his forums shuttle new threads onto the second page within the space of one day, thus resulting in more new threads being posted within a short period of time. Most threads max out at about 24 replies. Hence the deceptive figures.
Too much junk around here as is! Jersey Mike, we are tying you to SEPTA's tracks for that statement. See how you like it when you're supposed to get run over at a specific time and no train shows.
You can only be AMUE,
But I can only be SMEE.
Jimmy ;p
Oh man, who'm I gonna play with at Branford? Oh, he has no IDEA of what he's gotten himself into if this is true ... and once you've worn the polyester, the LAST thing you wanna see again is a TRAIN. :)
You will always have Jeff, Thurston, Lou, and myself to play with. But after this weekend being conductor on 1602 for Short Beach Day, my facinations with trolleys are starting to grow. Amazing how I ignored 6688 the whole time I was up there. That's starting to scare me. LOL. But to me, a trolley is a train, a subway is a train, because they run on rails. They will both share the same level of love that I have for trains. Trolleys are new to me, so hopefully when you get on that bandwagon and come to Branford, I hope to be a qualified operator by then.
Jimmy ;)
6688's a neat car and all, but the cab reminds me of a cramped R32. I go for the older stuff personally and since I grew up in the Bronx, an IRT car (other than the LoV) is like a sewer grate - so commonplace you don't notice them. :)
Jimmy :)
And yeah, once I kicked those cables and that roll sign housing out of the cab so I could drop my bench, 1689 was like sitting in my livingroom. Heh.
8-) ~ Sparky
Galumpki and kapusta at noon, no waiting. Heh. BMTman in the TA? Look at the bright side - all they'll let him do is smile and turn a stupid key ... REAL men slapped bottle caps. Hahahahahaha ...
What if he does work his way up to motorman and picks the Franklin Ave. shuttle? You don't suppose he'd try to pull a Luciano stunt, do you?:)
Betcha inside of a year, if he sees something rolling down the track at Branford, he'll throw a derailer under it at the last minute. Heh. No one's more cynical than "X-TA" ...
I wish him well. I still wonder if I should have done that 50 years ago, alas, my parents wouldn't let me apply to NYCTS.
I washed out in just under a year ... it was my DREAM job until I was actually doing it. Heh. But I still have a number of friends that work there and love doing it. I also have a number of friends that dumped their train for the last time, said "screw this noise" and went to another railroad. Time will tell. Sure hope that TA training don't screw the boy up at Branford. (grin)
Yeah, but like I've ALWAYS said since you first KNEW me, "TA *cure* foamers*" ... wasn't chitting ... you be tardy, go see the shrink. You'd BETTER go see the shrink! Or you can talk to your TMO instead. Ever WONDER why a general kindly person such as myself would use a handle of "SelkirkTMO" for a handle if I wasn't PLAYING with (ta) employees such as myself with the JOKE of what "supervision past" was like? Now IMAGINE the pinheads in charge TODAY who have FAR less to owrry about than "Did ANY D-trains get here TODAY?" back in MY day so they could break out the PHUCKING balloons and celebrate that ONE train actually MADE it? On time?!?!?!?! Hahahahahahaha! back in MY day, NOBODY got yelled at if the train was late - only thing you had to do was provide WRITTEN paper as to "where did you lose yer time, son?" And BECAUSE they had RCI's out there, you'd turn in your "bad order" paperwork, the slip from the RCI and you were HOME FREE!
NOWADAYS, if someone's disappointed, your arse gets written up. *AND* PUNISHED!?!?!?! :-\
He also said, "that happens" ... seemed to sum up life on the arnines perfectly ... "that happens." Heh. I still liked 'em though, got along with them better than many of my coworkers.
Jimmy ; )
8-) ~ Sparky
There's always hope for reformed foamers. SOME day. (grin)
Unless you pick out to the Eastern division. Then it'll be deja vu all over again in stretch limo versions of the Kawasakis.
And NO, I ain't scanning it. Significant penalties would apply. Sorry, kids ...
Jimmy
I had the privilege of taking 8101-8108 for a run "light" while it was under testing, and it was fun. Especially the river crossing. But I was already starting to get wrist pains from a short trip. Doing 4 or 5 RT's a day would make me crazy. But if you work your arm into the right spot, ain't all THAT bad. When they was new though, it was a NICE running train. VERY smooth. NOT like arnines. At all.
Jimmy
So what this means, obviously, is that WHATEVER train I get on, it's going to run up the G D Franklin shuttle before I can go where I need to get. :)
OH the humanity ...
And for the record I did apply the brakes, but someone must've activated the Brake cut-out valve (BCO) on the SMEE car cuz it didn't want to stop after I did a full app on the controller...Boy, some people will try and blame the Operator every time! :(
Could you ... ummm ... fill this cup? And it BETTER be single malt. Heh.
8-) ~ Sparky
Maybe I'd better sneak in at 4AM and run 1689 without all you wiseguys to bust *my* hawmp. Heh. Whatever Unca BMT did, it was MY fault. He SAW me leaping over da fence, he KNOWS he wuz framed.
8-) ~ Sparky
Whenever I'm in the mood for getting ripped off, I always head over to the Red Caboose....
VERY EXPENSIVE!!!!
Jimmy
:O
Jimmy
;)
Mirror - Mirror on the wall, who the most famed tightwad of ALL???
Well, who's peering in the speculum??? YOU!!!
8-) ~ Sparky
Or to quote the Roadmaster, "There are those of us that have,
there are those of us that will". >>GG<<
8-) ~ Sparky
Jimmy
Au contraire; he saw BMTman's pay stub! :^)
Jimmy :)
Passiveness is how Hitler got in power in Germany
That is actually false—public desperation, anger, etc. due to prolonged depression is what gave Hitler and his Nazi Party leverage to attain power. When the price of bread ends up rising to some 214 trillion marks, things will certainly start to look desperate. No such crisis is being faced by the USA at present, but down the line you may view things slightly differently if deflation starts to set in (per Alan Greenspan’s warnings).
And insofar as refusal to cooperate with an MTA or NYC police officer, just remember whose property you are on, and yes, if you are on public property, they cannot harrass you. No such false enforcement ever existed during WWII and it should not exist today.
Give the poor slob who is just doing his job a break. Jeez.
The fact that you can make a statement like that with no consequences is proof the country is not going the way you are saying it is.
Or the far more nefarious possibility that certain lesser freedoms are maintained so that people can make glib comments like that one in favour of the regime.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of responsibility for your actions. The U.S. Flag is the symbol of this country (like it or not). It represents the Declaration of Independence, The U.S. Constitution and our nation as a whole. To purposefully desecrate that symbol is 100% disrespectful to the country.
In other countries, burning their flag can get you imprisoned or even shot.
You want to burn the U.S. flag? Give up your US citizenship and move to another country.
As Franklin said, "We have given you a republic — if you can keep it.". And, of course, we could not. Phucking fascists ... :(
I may not agree with you, but I will fight to defend your right to state your view.
Long may she wave.
The lack of economic freedom in the former Soviet Union really gave that country the greatest civil liberties the world has ever known.
Agreed. But not illegal. The authority and principles represented by the flag survive and flourish despite the burning of the flag.
"You want to burn the U.S. flag? Give up your US citizenship and move to another country."
If we adopted your requirement, then the US would effectively surrender its unique character, pervert the Constitution and become just like Russia.
The whole point is that you can even burn the Constitution, and it doesn't matter. Government by the people and for the people survives and thrives anyway, and the foolishness of the stunt inherently diminishes the perpetrator. There is no need for further punishment. In fact, punishing the act would be anti-democratic.
So if you want to criminalize flag-burning, I suggest YOU give up your citizenship and move elsewhere.
And I wouldn't have it any other way.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
What do you think Bush, Ashcroft and yes, Greenspan are creating in anerica
Please note that I meant economic depression, not mental depression. We are still in recession as yet, but major differences are (a) Bush, Ashcroft et al are incumbents as opposed to radical candidates and (b) we have not fallen into such a depression as Germany had experienced due to the constraints of the Versailles Treaty.
And where might “anerica” be? Last I looked, we were in the United States of America.
You are quite confused, but alas this is subtalk, not politalk, so it's really quite absurd to begin debating.
Well now. I uh, I have to agree with that observation. The bit about point a to point b. That is what railroads do. I see no intrinsic value added to that system by the presence of eager acolytes scampering about taking snapshots. Maybe, sigh, you could use some discretion instead. To loosely paraphase a fable, be lees "cameraman Stork" and more "cameraman Log".
In a bit of strange irony, while the TM store in GCT no longer carries Peter's book, Posner's Bookstore, which is 2 stores to the left of the TM store does carry it.
In a sense it is best to keep such detailed information to "ourselves" so that we know who has acess to it. You never know who might use it for inappropriate purposes.
MORONS! :(
TOO late for those who didn't read the above. Curtail it ***NOW***??? What's the phucking POINT other than political GAIN by scaring WOMEN? That's who the GOP moved ... and well, if they lose their reproductive rights, they DESERVE what they voted for. NO sympathy here.
Yes, indeed. I detailed that saga around Christmas, 2001. The transit museum had placed a huge order with me in August '01. When the attacks hit I was in the middle of updating, but eventually I got the quantity needed for them. After the books were printed, it took me weeks to get hold of the museum, and when I did, they told me they couldn't carry it any more (instructions from higher-up in the MTA).
After almost losing my shirt on that massive printing bill (and finally selling my stock directly to members here and on other sites), I was lucky that POSMAN BOOKS in Grand Central dedided to carry it. Although their sales are a small fraction of the Museum's, I'm at least getting retail exposure in NYC. They're currently the only retail venue in the 5 boroughs. Everything else is either direct sales on my Website or mail order.
FYI, I will release version 3.5 around Thanksgiving (New PATH and revised AIRTRAIN drawings, Canarsie final alignment, much more) and version 3.6 in time for the reopening of all the Manhattan Bridge tracks and new services associated therewith.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.42 Now Available!
And do what with it? Attempt to rewire an interlocking and hope two trains meet up in the same space and time? No, a terrorist would just as easily look at a public subway map and see where an explosion would cause the greatest damage.
Although this society must remain vigilant, I really am getting fed up with everybody seeing Osama and Saddam hiding behind every rock. The media has whipped American society into a frenzy and are showing no signs of letting go. Try listening to a few of the more zealous radio talk show hosts going nuts on the topic (and think of the millions of followers of such shows) and see how badly your brain will hurt after a few minutes.
By contrast, I was in London for three blissful weeks in August, and IF I saw any more than 50 cops in that whole time it would have been a miracle. That included many evenings in the West End going to the theatre or cinema. You see that many (or more) in an hour around Times Square. Yet which of these two cities has experienced more terrorist acts throughout the years? Hint: Think IRA.
I'm no left-winger by any stretch of the immagination (colour me libertarian if anything), but the constant bleatings of the radical left and radical right are driving me nuts.
I don't mind if a cop asks me for ID or asks what I'm doing taking pictures, but so long as it stops there, fine. He's got a job to do. BUT so long as they don't cross the line and start becoming little tin-plated dictators making up laws as they go along, all's well. Alas, I think there are far too many newbies out there who see that badge and sidearm as a personal power trip rather than as a menas of upholding existing law.
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.42 Now Available!
But I'm also tired of being beaten up for pointing any of this out. It ain't you, it's the spin doctors. As long as we keep soiling our armour at the designated time coordinates, we'll never ask what happened to America during this diversion or why we've got gutless leaders who have nothing but disdain for Franklin Delano Roosevelt's stirring words, "the ONLY thing we have to fear is FEAR ITSELF." :(
Top 11 reasons Bush redacted 28 pages of the 9-11 report:
11. Wanted to try out the new, black "highlighter" Dick Cheney gave him.
10. Sabotage: photocopier damaged by departing Clinton staffers.
9. Ritualistic homage to Richard Nixon.
8. Eliminates questions about tens of thousands of pages entirely
withheld by the White House.
7. Accident: Sometimes if he's not following along with his "Sharpie" he can't hear himself read.
6. Concerned about profanity in the report, Bush censored every word he did not know.
5. Saudi Arabia's new PR guy is a genius!
4. George Tenet didn't tell him exactly what not to do at that
particular moment.
3. Hubris.
2. Love means never having to say you're Saudi.
And the number one reason Bush redacted 28 pages of the 9-11 report:
1. He'd like a second term.
and I don't think that it would fall into the NYCT catagory of things that would aid a terrorist.
Consider that the maps themselves can be put together simply by looking out the railfan window (when such could be done easily) and interpreting what one sees in relation to the actual location of the rights-of-way as depicted on a Hagstrom public map.
That's not to say that it isn't a valuable resource for the subway buff. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the kind words, and don't worry...there's more to come!
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.42 Now Available!
Well...that in itself ain't a bad thing. I see no good qualities about them as far as sharing the roadways with other vehicles. Not a truck, my left eye. They're basically pickups with large cabs. Yet all the hoopla about them by the manufacturers always shows people driving them as if they were sports cars. And not top heavy unwieldly clunky critters. Nothing wrong with pickups...`long as they are recognized as such.
They're more used to that type of violence in Europe. We don't experience it as often, and we've come to believe we're entitled to be free of it (9/11 showed us we're not immune).
The European response to terrorism is more low-key, but can sometimes be more extreme than what we do on our own soil. Incidentally, there are limits even in Britain.
When the IRA got carried away with bombings and raids on Northern Ireland police stations, the Brits called in the 22nd Special Air Service Regiment (SAS). Encounters with SAS 4-man teams tend to be fatal in nature, as this unit essentially has a license to kill. IRA men on their way to additional raids were ambushed and shot in Gibraltar and in Ulster at least three separate times. In oneincident, eight IRA gunmen driving a front-loading into a police station were ambushed by the SAS; reports said that each IRA man had two dozen bullet holes through him. In the last incident, a car carrying IRA gunmen was caught in a classic "L-ambush" and when the driver tried to drive away the SAS men shot at the gas tank and blew up the car and everyone in it.
While we do that on foreign soil, we tend not to do that sort of thing within the homeland borders.
And in recent events London ahs received threats as well from Al Qaeda (sic).
> and IF I saw any more than 50 cops in that whole time it would have been a miracle. That included many evenings in the West End going to the theatre or cinema. You see that many (or more) in an hour around Times Square.
I was in Times Sq last week and there were many cops BSing, and others posing for tourist photos. Did they do the same in London? Or did they appear more focused on the job?
CG
There is nothing to fear.
The war on terrorism is over.
Osama bin Laden is dead.
al-Qaeda has been destroyed.
The war on terrorism is over.
We won.
Case closed.
You willing to stake your life on that?
I'm not.
Stay in Atlanta Rob.
Well I wouldnt go to that extent. I would resist but would not hurt anyone else to protect my personal freedoms. Then you may be arrested for assault.
BTW, *I* don't own any TA employees' job, but don't the taxpayers of NY do?
I don't think so. Sure, we subsidize the business they work for (and you probably do too), but we voted to do so. So once we've given the subsidy to the MTA I don't think there's any ownership of the jobs left.
Purely my opinion, though.
I *failed* the battery test (it tested how well you knew how to deal with a BAT IN THE APARTMENT!) or more correctly, scored low because I was an ENGINEER with the state. Didn't test for technical skills, tested only for tolerance of BS ... the "battery test" was what caused me (along with many other aspects of mind-draining BS) to pipe off the "ship of state" ... do we OWN their "jobs?" Nope ... but we DO own the politicos that allow the incompetent to be PLACED in agencies over the COMPETENT ... and the methodology with which civil service permits political backscratching and the apoointments of MORONS over those TRULY QUALIFIED for civil service titles is a disgrace! And so is the testing methods which PERMIT it.
It ain't the hourlie's fault ... as always, it's the swine we keep RE-ELECTING. New York does NOT have recall, nor does the federal level. About TIME we consider it ... NEXT election, time to throw the bums out and replace them with OTHER bums of the same old, same old.
We REALLY need something ELSE. :(
It's fun. I don't keep up with it enough, though.
As a NYCTA Bus Operator, of which I am the operator of a common carrier, I am legally empowered to use physical force to discharge you from a bus, as authorized by federal law. Although this type of activity is frowned upon by the NYCTA, it is nevertheless on the books and enforceable.
Upon doing such, I am further protected by a change in NYS legislation which makes assaulting me a Class D felony punishable by criminal imprisonment, rather than civil citation.
While it isn't my job to enforce the law, it is my job to protect the safety of my passengers and the property of the MTA (to a point, of course).
I suggest you reevaluate your position. FWIW.
Even if the bus is in service and Rob is in compliance with all relevant rules and regulations? Just curious.
It's just one of those little-known under-publicized regulations that do exist but are rarely used.
A year or two after I first moved upstate in 1975, I was reminded by a HAND-DRAWN sign at the Adirondack Trailways gatea at PABT ... that sign still makes me chuckle all these years later ... "PASSENGERS are REQUIRED to check guns with driver before boarding bus." :)
But MY bet is that if a driver threw someone off the bus, they'd be DISCIPLINED these days. I *know* that a subway conductor would be in SERIOUS poo for smacking a moron on their train. :(
Why?
Because the EJECTMENT OF PASSENGERS rule is still on the books.
I have in my hand, hard cpy of the latest "Rules & Regulations Governing Employees Engaged in the Operation of the MTA New York City Transit System", published by the Department of Labor Relations, Reprinted April 2001, which clearly states:
EJECTMENT OF PASSENGER; REPORT THEREOF
Rule 31, Page 20
(a) In case of ejectment of passenger, no more force must be used than is necessary to remove the passenger from the car, bus or system property.....
It goes on, but I'm not willing to offer more information to non-employees. If you're an employee, email me and I'll send you the complete rule. You'll need to prove you're an employee. To do that, indicate the name of the only blank (empty) box on your paycheck stub.
How 'bout that!
Honest Injun :-)
I only had ONE occasion to get into a "down to the floor" three toot brawl with a goose ... but when *I* was done beating the qwap out of them, the responding TAPD officers picked RIGHT up from where I left off ... FOR CAUSE. :)
Even if the bus is in service and Rob is in compliance with all relevant rules and regulations? Just curious.
In the case you describe, he might conceivably be immune from criminal prosecution (though I very much doubt it), but he sure wouldn't be immune from a civil lawsuit that could cost him his house.
Similarly, deliberately breaking someone's camera can cost you a bundle in civil court if the person whose camera is broken can convince the jury of deliberate intent to damage property of great sentimental value.
Still, it exists. It is legally enforcable and it is part of the rulebook and the NYCRR.
The only issue I contend would be the civil suit you mention. I cannot be found guilty as an individual for following the rules of the MTA. I'm pretty sure the MTA would have to be indicated on the summons and complaint.
Agreed?
If you deliberately break someone's camera (which was the case being discussed), you are not following the rules of the MTA and can be assessed actual and punitive damages by a civil jury. You aren't found guilty of anything, you are just ordered to pay out significant money.
No camera issue here. I assumed you understood the reply to both topics as separate entities among one discussion. My apologies for not being clearer.
Further, I don't believe any transit worker (with the possible exception of Property Protection) has the right to remove anything from your person. In cases where an object/item warrants removal from your person (and I couldn't begin to speculate what exactly warrants a TA employee to remove anything from your person), it should best be left to the MTA Police or NYPD, as is their job; not mine. Should a TA worker (B/O, T/O, C/R, S/A, etc) physically remove anything from you, or intentionally damage any personal object/item while in the line fo duty, they have gone far beyond the scope of their duties/responsibilities, and should be dealt with appropriately; legally, civilly and internally.
As nobody has the right to lay harm on me, I have no right to lay harm on you, or your property, unless extenuating circumstances prevail during the course of "my legally empowered ability to use physical force to discharge you from a bus".
Of course, as I've stated earlier, I would be hard-pressed to physically involve myself with any of my passengers for any reason, save witness to a physical assault on another passenger.
I'd just assume let the police do their job and I'll do mine; drive my bus.
Theres alot of bitter angry transit workers who remember 9-11 so you are threating their lives.
True, I'm bitter and angry about what happened on September 11, yet I don't find fault or blame in those taking pictures of my bus two years or two minutes later. I don't find that anyone's threatening my life with a photograph they've taken. How can you?
How are we supposed to know your not a Phillipino radical muslim trying to gain info on OUR system.
You're not. You're supposed to know how to do your job. Your job title doesn't include prejudgimg someone's racial/ethnic/religious background based on their affinity for transit related photographs. Your job is to run your bus/train/station/etc according to the laws of this state and the rules of the authority.
Second of all thoughts like that make people hate buffs all the more.
What people? I'm a TA employee. I don't 'hate' buffs. As a matter of fact, I encourage the hobby. The more someone knows about the difficulties of my job, the better off I'll be when performing it (regardless of their agenda). Ala Sy Syms.. I allow my busfans to change the signs at a route terminal and take the photographs of their choice. These are people with a greater knowledge and understanding of the system as a whole, which in turn, help make your job easier by not asking the "same dumb questions over and over again". Those who appreciate the system and treat it with respect are 'transit fans' that I've met. Perhaps you should be a bit more understanding, if not accomodating.
You can quote the patriot act all you want but in reality your a foolish teenager with idolistic fantasies.
Derogatory comments such as these only make you look foolish, sir. They also help to serve against us every three years. Grow up.
In my opinion your non violent approach with certain people myself included would turn violent and perhaps accidently damage a camera.
Please explain. Your statement infers that you would be party to initiate physical contact with a passenger based solely on his/her application of a camera within the system. Am I correct in my assumption?
Now, unilaterally, you've decided that you will refuse to obey lawful limitations on your activities. Why did you feel the need to post this? You will violate the law because obeying it does not suit you. Why did you feel the need to proclaim this? You use freedom as an excuse to do what you want and threaten lawsuits if duly authorized agencies attempt to enforce those laws.
I can see why women find you so unappealing. You are a putz. I can't see why people here tollerate you. You are a parasite. You are a loser. I certainly don't approve of curb-side justice but I also hope you piss off the wrong cop.
By the way, please don't take the above personally. I'd hate to add to your problems.
Tee
By the way - did I see you get off an A train last week at penn Station? About 5' tall, black hair, glasses, shorts and a green tee shirt with a wore out "G" on it?
My Mother aint here anymore. That is indeed a low blow.
"When my little sister was in a school concert a few months ago, they announced that videotaping or phototography with or without flash was not allowed. We knew why. They hired a professional photog and were going to sell tapes afterwards."
Dont even compare that. Thats private property and private event. We are talking public places here, streets, subways,etc. I obey the law, I do. I just dont think there is a LEGAL right for cops to question photographers. Show me it and I will obey it. But I wont obey a law that doesnt exist.
You need to grow up
Ohh.....you must mean Dr. Fred Peritore !!
Bill "Newkirk"
I'll e-mail Fred, maybe he'll do a house call on his next trip back east. He's overdue for a ride on the Cyclone before it closes for the fall.
Bill "Newkirk"
Jail is even worse than Sea Cliff. And no mystical chicks their either.
Is this REALLY the direction you want this country to go in?
While I don't share John's views, we HAVE allowed the beginnings of what can readily become a police state. When America was attacked, it was attacked because federal agencies did not talk to one another, and ALL of the law enforcement agencies and intelligence agencies were understaffed and financially short-sheeted. This HASN'T improved. HAD we had arabic-speaking intelligence analysts, and IF the FBI, NRO, NSA, CIA and other alphabet soup agencies had COORDINATION, and had the "don't let THIS person into the US" at INS, then it's very likely that 9/11 would never have happened.
MY view is that if we're going to round up people for taking snapshots of trains, tracks and stations and NOT fix the underlying causes (NOTE: I DON'T take pictures of trains, not my thing) then we've gone over the edge already and are punishing the PUBLIC for the shortcomings of our elected officials. Patriot II (for those who have bothered to READ it) is particularly frightening in its implications for abuse. But I digress.
As long as there's WWE Wrestling, most Americans will remain unable to name their senators, much less their congressfish or their local state representatives. And they won't see it coming SHOULD it come to pass. America gets its TRUTH from O'Reilly and Larry King. I recommend that people rent "Network" if they believe in the media as a watchdog. I'm lucky ... I'm WHITE, Catholic, and live out with the cows. I'm cooperative with law enforcement and I don't do anything I'd be ashamed of. I've had military people, FBI and others here on the property ... no big thing, we sat, had some beers, chuckled, talked and all's well with the world. Nobody GIVES a chit about upstate New York. Ain't worth it for terrorists, politicians, hell ... even the mosquitos are packing up and leaving. :)
And to throw this on topic, however briefly, look at how MTA handles "unfortunate incidents" ...
By the way, "Los Angeles Ca. Rail-System. m.t.a. "MR WILLIE"" was Salaam's handle in those days!!!
Couldn't you have asked the same question on 9/10/01? Did you?
I'm not sure I understand your point.
Disney saw no need to flood their parks with armed police in early 2001, but New York does. The same situation exists today. What does that have to do with terrorism?
Leaving aside the terrorism issue for the moment, the Disney parks do not require an armed police presence because, unlike a city, they're a controlled, artificial environment. No one lives in the parks, so you don't have the sort of social ills that exist in most cities. People pay (a lot of) money for a day's entertainment and in the vast majority of cases want to leave their cares behind.
Shift forward to the post-9/11 situation. NYC's leaders fret that the city's a prime target for terrorism, and in what I consider a knee-jerk response have greatly increased the number of cops in highly visible "Operation Atlas" patrols. Costly overtime is necessary because the NYPD's ranks have diminished due to a spate of retirements and other reasons. Disney, in contrast, has not seen the need to flood the parks with armed cops even though they would be very near the top of any terrorist's target list. It's true that there have been some increases in security, most notably bag searches at park entrances, but nothing remotely comparable to the NYC situation.
Has Disney underreacted? I don't think so. Has NYC overreacted? For sure!
I also think that NYC has over-reacted in some ways -- but this is the will of the people at work. Most NY'ers (and most Americans) seem to want their government to overreact to the threat of terrorism, though they wouldn't call it overreacting themselves.
It's interesting that you note Disney's bag searches. I'm sure NYC would have a different approach to their anti-terrorism patrols if they could clear out the city every night and then check what people were bringing in each morning.
I'm sure. But it surely can't be anything remotely like NYC's armed-camp approach.
I also think that NYC has over-reacted in some ways -- but this is the will of the people at work. Most NY'ers (and most Americans) seem to want their government to overreact to the threat of terrorism, though they wouldn't call it overreacting themselves.
Maybe not. Say what you want about the dearth of common sense in today's society, but I believe most people are smart enough to realize that the NYPD's show-of-force tactics are just posturing, largely or wholly ineffective against terrorist attacks. Heck, every time I see a large group of "Operation Atlas" cops standing around, I think of how they'd be a delightful banquet for a suicide bomber. And they do create an unsettling atmosphere, making the city look much more at risk than it really is. I hope sanity prevails soon.
You have made a decision to challenge the government in a way that allows you to be isolated, filed, watched, and harassed for the rest of your life if the powers that be so wish it. All because you won't explain to the cop what the story is. You will not always understand why a cop questions you. He could be looking for someone who was reported for a completely DIFFERENT issue and you could wind up being implicated for something you don't know about because of the response that you plan. It is your life, and corrections buses are free.
Now that is what I call a proper response by the photographer. He is not initiating a confrontation, the police officer is. The officer probably has the rule on them anyway and can look it up for themselves. Unfortunately in this instance the officer would probably call for backup and have the "suspect" arrested. But the "suspect" could sue for false arrest as there is no law saying you have to surrender your ID to a police officer (unless you operate a motor vehicle).
The police officer's rule book DOES NOT have the sentence that says photography is legal. It's a big problem, but DON'T YOU FORGET THAT.
(insert joke about success of police chasing criminals after eating so many donuts here).
CG
Bad, bad Unca Selkirk ... seriously, had a LOT of buddies on the force when I lived in the city, even MORE since I moved upstate ... and the patrol book ONLY gets brought out before you call in supervision if it's something out of the ordinary and the suspect "knows his rights" ... so you look it up. Most routine things have happened for the umpteenth TIME in your face, so you're ready to quote 221.25 from rote.
Agreed though, that a DEFINITION of rule 1059 *NEEDS* to be DETERMINED and properly communicated to ALL parties ... and as much as I *loathe* the idea of yet another "study group" appointed by our adminiswigs, it's CERTAINLY time that THIS seventy-sixth street have it props delivered DIRECTLY by Geraldo on FOX5 ... ENOUGH of this back and forth NO DIALTONE ...
Doubt all you want, but we already had someone here post saying that the cop talking to him pulled out the rule book on the spot.
Hopefully, when Hollywood makes a movie about your life they'll keep it under 4 hours...
"But the "suspect" could sue for false arrest as there is no law saying you have to surrender your ID to a police officer (unless you operate a motor vehicle"
So now we see the true motivation. Sue the government and use the proceeds to get yourself out of Sea Cliff. That's just a joke, John. I know you're not looking to make money with this. You're just misguided.
Look at all the great acts of civil disobedience -- what did they have? First and foremost, they had numbers. Second they had publicity.
Going out and getting arrested for your cause while alone on the subway platform at Neck Road isn't going to do anything to advance your cause. It will, however, decrease your bank account and allow you to see parts of the city you haven't seen before.
CG
So how many Rosa Parks clones were there on that bus?
-Robert King
CG
Photography is legal according to rule 1059
Get your numbers right...
Haven't you ever heard of the Lee Havey Oswald Scenario? It usually seems that when cops get into physical confrontations with suspects, it's the cops who end up on the losing end.
The Scenario gets its name, by the way, from the circumstances surrounding Oswald's arrest following the JFK assassination. Three of the six cops who struggled with Oswald required medical treatment for injuries sustained. Oswald weighed all of 140 pounds and had no unarmed-combat training.
Are there not enough of you here with a common concern (employees and fans alike) who would like a final definitive answer from the authorities (NYPD & MTA) and involve the ACLU and/or local media into helping to force the NYPD/MTA for an answer one way or another?
This issue must be resolved. We can not allow the NYPD to enforce laws only they know about, while the general public go about their business under forced unwitting false pretenses.
It's the equivalent of the NYPD writing speeding tickets for traveling 20 MPH in a 30 MPH zone, with the DMV saying "If you don't speed you won't get a ticket".
:/
I agree, this is very disturbing.
Are there not enough of you here with a common concern (employees and fans alike) who would like a final definitive answer from the authorities (NYPD & MTA) and involve the ACLU and/or local media into helping to force the NYPD/MTA for an answer one way or another?
We know the final answer. A judge, some police, and the rules on the web all say photography is legal. It's not right that we have to be constantly harassed about it, but I'd rather not get the system so mad that they decide to actually ban photography (or make it law that you need a permit). For the time being I'd rather just sweat it out. Although I would like to see the NYPD get in trouble for having the wrong rules in their pocket.
Just don't forget that the general public has no idea there are fellow citizens taking pictures of the trains for fun. Most folk don't understand why anyone would want to. So I don't think there'd be much public sympathy for us.
As I'd said earlier, the issue isn't photography, the issue is dual contradictory copies of one law. Tit-for-tat on an internet message board isn't going to resolve the issue, and contrary to what some others have stated, the issue remains unresolved. If even one officer carries or contends that it is a violation to photograph the transit system without ancilary equipment, a bigger problem exists and must be addressed.
We don't arbitrarily take pen in hand and at One Police Plaza, edit legislation to suit the epic-de-jour.
Think of the freedom you had 10 years ago vs. the freedom you have today... Think of the personal freedom you had 20 years ago....
So to me it isn't just the restriction on photography on the subway - that is just the latest symptom of the growing cancer eating away slowly at our personal freedoms.... Yes this country still has POLITICAL freedom - you can vote for whomever you choose or tell the ruling party what you think of it. What we have lost with almost no objection is PERSONAL freedom... These days I value personal freedom more than political freedom - the way I am starting to feel is that you can take political freedom and shove it (the middle class gets the shaft no matter who wins anyway) - just give me back the right to drive without a seat belt (or any of the other personal freedoms we have lost)....
Do I agree with resisting a police officer - NO. On the other hand I feel that we cannot let any more of our personal freedoms erode. We may just wake up one day and find that we have none left.
Since when do you have to pay to look up at the sky?
That's a fee for parking, not to see fireworks. I have a friend in Massapequa who enjoys the Jones Beach fireworks from her own backyard, free of charge. I see the fireworks from Shea quite easily (or rather hear them while I'm trying to sleep) without having to buy a ticket for the Mets game.
John, this is probably way beyond your comprehension, but there are a lot of folks out there who don't like fireworks. In particular, I can think of a number of friends and relatives of mine who served in Viet Nam who associate the sounds of fireworks with the sounds of battle... and who still "take cover" when a whistling rocket arches skyward and explodes.
Many dog owners don't like fireworks near their homes, because it makes their dogs nervous and upset.
And people who actually work for a living, instead of sponging off those of us who do, also tend to dislike fireworks and other loud noises that occur when they are trying to get the sleep they need so they can do their job well. But again, that's something incredibly remote to your experience, isn't it?
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Bravo. How long did it take for you to come up with that?
Why?
Because legal outlets sell legal fireworks, ones that comply with safety standards, and they do not sell the big ones that can really hurt people. It give people a slightly safer product, and keeps illegal providers out of the market, since prices for fireworks are rather small, all considered.
This being said however, even legal fireworks can be dangerous, and I would not like to contemplate the sorts of injuries that these 'legals' can cause in a city environment.
Elias
Two big faults with that reasoning:The vast majority of people who have illegal fireworks in states where they are illegal get them from states where they are legal. (Or from middlemen who gets them from states that are legal) So even illegal fireworks meet those states safety standards. You might as well make anything illegal (such as narcotics) legal as there would be better safety standards.No, sorry, your reasoning just doesn't wash.
*Don't take that as a precedent. I don't intend to defend John too often.
*Don't take that as a precedent. I don't intend to defend John too often.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Enough is enough. You are now the 2nd person that will be added to my killfile list.
Oh, for just five minutes alone with our politicos ... no witnesses ... agggh. :(
But yeah, New York ... another PERFECT example of GOP leadership ... and TRAIN schedules. Ain't been a democrap in a LONG time and yet the repubs have managed to give us the high el pillar SIDEWAYS. And to think! It was those "tax and spend liberals" they used to talk about. Look what's doing the booty bandit *NOW*??? :(
Care to cite a reference for that (false) statement?
"212,000 private sector positions in last two years tied to downtown, 9/11; some signs of resurgence" ... internet copy NOT available, but if you can find THAT Albany Times Union (we believe SO much in journalisjm, that htought we can't afford much ELSE, we SUPPORT our local newspaper, because as others here on sSubtalk can attest having read same, AIN'T a Murdoch newspaper or "news network."
HIGHLIGHTS of the article (GO FIND IT, TOP CHENEY SECRET or it would have BEEN ONLINE like MOST TU content) ... jobs in:
APPAREL -8900 in 2002, -5800 in 2003
AIRLINE -9800 in 2002, -4200 in 2003
TELECOM -9400 in 2002, -4700
WALL ST -25000 in 2002, -10900
Need I go on? It's all there ... GOP gonna buy you a new pair of shoes. Phuck! If the damned republicans would just PAY for the software they owe us PAYMENT for ... oh yeah, right ... I didn't pay Al D'Amato or Joe Bruno or Paturkey's "East Euro" mobsters their due ... of COURSE we can't expect a CHECK for what the state I call HOME has STOLEN from us. Nope. Phuck US ... Rush is right, republican theives are GLORIOUS! What *WAS* I thinking? Phuckers. THIEVES! :(
"but hey ... under Paturkey, D'Amato and Bruno, we've got the HIGHEST unemployment in the nation, and only getting WORSE with each passing DAY..."
Here's a URL you can check out:
"http://www.dol.state.nm.us/dol_surr.html"
New York currently has the 15th highest unemployment rate in the nation -- an improvement from being 14th one year ago. Of somewhat more importance is that NY's unemployment rate is now better than the national rate -- something which has been rather infrequent over the past 25 years. I wasn't able to uncover the time series of data for that period, but my recollection is that New York is rarely any better than about 15th or 20th in the ranking of states.
I find it somewhat disingenuous to try and blame unemployment or economic results on either party. There is a mix of historically Republican and Democrat dominated states at both the top and the bottom of the list.
Unemployment rates are not even throughout the state. As best I recall, the rate Upstate tracks the national average fairly closely, the rate in the suburbs is usually lower than the national average, and finally the NYC rate is almost always far in excess of the rates in the rest of the state and in the nation.
Last I heard, once an administration has been in power for more than four years, they own the results. :)
Most of the things you mentioned exemplify not so much a loss of freedom due to terrorist paranoia, but rather the extent to which we've become a "Nanny State," with the government trying to eliminate all risk from life through legislation. Now that's another interesting issue in and of itself, but it's not really relevant to the harassment of subway photographers.
Not true. A rationale for mandatory seatbelts (and motorcycle helmets) is that in many cases a person spends many years vegetating in a hospital with the taxpayers picking up the huge bill.
First of all, even if that was true, which I don't believe it is, it is only in a minority of cases where the taxpayers pick up the bill, namely through medicare & medicaid. The vast majority of accident victims get paid from insurance.
That being said, in the case of seatbelts, the morbid fact that a percentage of people not wearing seatbelts die from their accidents offsets the percentage of people who spend long periods of time in the hospital.
As far as motorcycle helmets are concerned, there are just as many statistics negating the value of helmets as there are statistics accentuating the positives of helmet use. There have been studies that show that helmets do not help much, and some helmets, such as the full face helmets that most Jap bike riders wear are actually more dangerous than not wearing any, such as heads snapping back and necks breaking.
You also have to factor in the fact that people who wear seatbelts or helmets tend to have a more false sense of security and tend to be subconsciencely more reckless than people who don't.
Much like our pal, John, except for the hospital, of course.
We'll see....
Go sit in a classroom, son.
First, you made it everyone's business when you told everyone here about it. If you wanted to keep it private you should have - well - kept it private.
Second - you made it our business because most of us pay for your lifestyle in the form of taxes.
Third - You rub our nose in it two to three time a week when you report on your carefree lifestyle where your toughest decision is which bus to take or where to stop for lunch.
I really don't give a flying F#@K what you dou or what your taste in women is. What bothers me is that you have your digital camera, your computer your 24/7 vacation and I'm paying for it. Rights, you don't need rights. Your friggin life is one big fu@#ing fantasy camp.
Have you ever checked out what public assistance pays for a single man without dependents? It's much more comfortable and pleasant to work for a living.
Do you also object to retired railfanners who use your hard-earned FICA payments to go railfanning?
Public assistance is way less than $900 per month.
Sometimes, sometimes not.
Make that ex-husband
AND where might that be?
Peace,
ANDEE
Keep up the good work, now stop bitching on this board.
Before I statred with my current job, there were times that I had to haul my ass out of bed at 4 AM, walk 3 1/2 blocks to the subway in a neighborhood that you wouldn't survive for 1/2 an hour. A one hour subway ride with skells who, like you, didn't want - oooh I'm sorry, couldn't work. And all for $12.00 an hour.
Let me tell you one thing you little PR!@#. I work. I take night classes. I pay my taxes. I obey the law. SO how am I what's wrong with this country - a$$ h0!e? It's malcontents like you that FU@# it up for the re$t of us.
U sure had no problem COMMUTING out to West Nyack or to Garden State..
If you can handle that long a commute, I'm sure you can handle
walking to a store and working, too!
I don't think the negative statements directed at you are mostly because you're unemployed and on home relief, but that you ride trains and buses in a carefree manner and report here about it daily.
If out of those seven days you applied yourself to do volunteer work, let's say two days a week in a hospital or library, then you would at least be "giving back" to the community. When you do find a job, report it here and those catcalls will cease.
Bill "Newkirk"
So, are you faulting the NYPD for just doing their jobs to protect this city? How is Homeland Security (or the lack of, at the airports) relevant to NYPD stopping and just questioning someone taking pictures. They still have to let you go if you can identify yourself and you tell them that the pictures are for your own use.
If that means arrest, then the police can look forward to getting sued. Its none of their damn business what I do as long as I'm on public property.
I do believe in photography in the subway system and public places in general; but if you are on a public sidewalk, do you accept someone taking pictures at a NYCT power plant or subway yard (other than trains, like the barn itself)? What about someone taking a picture at the extreme end of a subway tunnel? What about taking pictures at the Empire State Building at 3 AM and you live in NYC? Bet you condone this.
Passiveness is how Hitler got in power in Germany. Show Bush and Ashcroft that we will NOT be passive as they attempt to take away our freedoms and liberties.
Hitler got to power in Germany but the U.S. had no involvment until "..a day of infamy." happened on 12/7/1941. You cannot compare apples with oranges so why do you say that Bush and Ashcroft are passive. If anything, they were passive beacuse of 9/11 and they failed to detect the warning signs (look at Moussani, the 20th hijacker) but now they are taking action.
I follow American principles of freedom and liberty for all and will not obey the homeland security laws.
Good for you. That means I presume you will not consent to a baggage screening or search at JFK, EWR, or LGA and you will effectively shut down the entire airport because of your stupidity. And if I just happen to be one another flight affected by your nonsense, you sure will MORE than just p*** me off.
As far as tickets go, I will fight them if I get any. And if I lose they still wont get one cent from me. Instead they will get a class action lawsuit.
Class action lawsuit? Who will file during the open period? I'm sure you have the Dream Team representating you.
Photographing anything from a public sidewalk is perfectly legal. That said, NYCT doesn't have power plants anymore. True, some of the old plants still exist as Con Ed facilities; I've taken at least a dozen photos of the IRT powerhouse on 11 Ave. I fail to see photos of simple masonry structures in subway yards or of a concrete tunnel portal as a security risk. The Empire State Building looks the same at 3:00 AM as it does at 3:00 PM, when thousands of tourists are photographing it, only darker; the terrorists could save time by just buying a poster, anyway. I live in New Your City, and I condone all of the above.
I understand Qtraindash7's frustration on his legal right to photography, I just do not condone his right-wing methods to disobey (and disrespect) police officers when they stop and question him. On the NYTimes Ultimate Ride, R30 was stopped by an undercover officer at 7th Ave/9th st/Park Slope station. So R30 told the officer what he was doing and the officer went on, only to see the permit that Gena and her assistant had on that permitted them the filming. But everone affected DID comply and we continued on our trip.
If an arrest does take place, let it be for compliance and not stupidity. Remember anyone with no ID is AUTOMATICALLY hauled in for arrest or detainment. Refusing to provide ID or a reason why you are taking pictures is plain stupid, and Qtraindash7 advocates this.
There is no law to back that up. That kind of stuff is just the kind of thing that makes me steamed. Rules like that would definately be a big step toward a totalatarian regime.
I value my identity, and I feel having to show a cop it, just for taking a photo, is a VIOLATION of my personal freedom.
Almost forgot... that was Japan who attacked us.
Actually THAT could be a beautiful picture - it has artistic potential... You see this as a potentially suspicious activity - yet I immediatley thought of the artistic potential..
I DID NOT buy a camera for the purpose of taking pictures of my wife or her relatives... I spent a LOT of money on camera equipment for the sole purpose of taking pictures of trains, historical buildings, etc, therefore I can understand the frustration being felt by many here.
I have no problem with any of those acts. You're on a public street taking a photo. I dont care if its by a power plant, subway yard, or landmark, or if its at 3am. I would like to do some power plant photography, but of course, then that makes me a terrorist, right?
"So, are you faulting the NYPD for just doing their jobs to protect this city? "
No. I dont blame the police officers. I actually feel bad for them. You think they enjoy taking part in a witchunt? As I think most police officers think, they'd rather be out there catching real criminals than sitting at the end of a tunnel all day looking for a "terrorist".
Thats why I wouldnt be mean to a police officer if they questioned me. That would be like being mean to a bus driver because the route is bad. I simply would briefly explain I am taking a photo because I am a railfan. But I feel giving them an ID is a violation of MY rights.
"Good for you. That means I presume you will not consent to a baggage screening or search at JFK, EWR, or LGA and you will effectively shut down the entire airport because of your stupidity. And if I just happen to be one another flight affected by your nonsense, you sure will MORE than just p*** me off. "
No, I would cooperate with baggage screeenings. Because they DO serve a purpose to protect the passengers from on board weapons being brought on the plane. I dont mind baggage screenings at buildings either. I dont make a fuss at all about it, I dont mind it because this actually does help keep a place safe by KEEPING DANGEROUS WEAPONS OUT.
Taking photos harms no one. And in many cases, I'd wish I would have had my camera on me to help catch someone doing a criminal act (I've been witness to several hit and runs but did not have my camera on me)
Today I visited a friend who works in the court system and had to go through a screening. You just walk through a metal detector they X-ray your bag and they dont ask you a million questions just what business you need to do.
Now in 1251 6th they require an ID to visit an office. And they will only accept one from the DMV or a passport (guess I wont be visiting anyone THERE) Excessive, definately. Let them just screen baggage. But that is a privately owned office building, so they have every right to enforce their own rules. They have the right to ban photography and the right not to let you in. Just like I have the right to do business elsewhere.
I DO BELIEVE IN SECURITY. I do think metal detectors and X-ray machines should be required in all major office buildings and government institutions. Because they do keep people from bringing in weapons.
But I dont see how hassling photographers constitutes any security at all. Terrorists already have photos of these kinds of things. Questioning people taking photos is like going on a witchunt.
:0)
I'm sure the exercise may not to be his liking. Like being shoved up against a concrete wall with all the Bloods taking turns making mincemeat of him.
:0)
Yet why is it when others critize ye, you think we're being funny.
And I don't just mean the GP38-2, I did it countless times, and never even though about the fact that I would be bothered. However, I do not have a problem with being questioned. If that's what they feel they must do, so be it. I would just be polite.
I read the whole list of rules and regulations for using Penn Station that is posted a few walls. It doesn't say anything about photography.
I was there the other week taking photos of the SMEE train headed to Times Square. I was there for over an hour, on a weekend when no trains are running...
I was also there the previous day during rush hour.
I was there the other week taking photos of the SMEE train headed to Times Square. I was there for over an hour, on a weekend when no trains are running...
I was also there the previous day during rush hour.
Shhhh... :)
Of course it depends on one thing.
How good is the resolution of the pictures taken by those new cell phones that double as digital cameras?
If the resolution is good, you can be taking a picture but it looks like you are really making a phone call. In that way, you are not calling any attention to yourself.
Just an idea or maybe a suggestion. Any thoughts on this?
Easy to go check..... but to save you the effort the best I've seen is only 640x480. (0.3 megapixel)
--Mark
Not good at all. Awful. Just awful. I gave this sort of thing a try with a Palm Zire 71 and the results were awful. Here are some examples: everything from the third photo on this page through the end of the album.
Be friendly and cooperative to them, and they will return the favor. Be snarlly, and they will find cause to bust you.
Elias
Not quite. If the officer has reasonable cause to give you a summons, and you fail to identify yourself, you can be detained until your identity is verified. If the officer has no reasonable cause to give you a summons, your failure to identify yourself is NOT a cause for detention and can result in a valid false arrest suit.
Thank God !
My handle, JJ .... no it's Mr t
BTW, Saw your photo at the Riverhead event.
Check it out, this link will work until they put next weeks article in it's spot, after that you will have to go to the mainsite and see it in the "Our Neighborhood" archives.
http://www.timesnewsweekly.com/NewFiles/OURNEIGH.html
That was a particularly good article about one of my favorite el lines.
It must have been quite the trip before 1944!
It is a darn shame that Daddy's Train wasn't really a movie. It would truly be a classic today!
I have yet to ride the current El, but I would like to soon.
It's also all too true what you say about getting from one side of Brooklyn to the other by subway most easily by going into Manhattan and coming back into Brooklyn, despite the G line. I've experienced this many times riding from Ridgewood to Sheepshead Bay and Brighton Beach. Once, in June 1981, I got sick of the idea of riding into Manhattan and back into Brooklyn, and met a date in Sheepshead Bay by taking the L to Rockaway Parkway and then taking a bus. I had to walk a mile at the end, but the bus ride was pleasant and went by Midwood High School, among other interesting places.
Another shortcut - this one to midtown Manhattan - was lost when the Rockaway Beach Branch of the LIRR stopped operating between Penn Station and Ozone Park on June 8, 1962. Herbert George, author of "Change At Ozone Park", an excellent book about the Rockaway Beach Branch, mentions in this book, getting from Parkside station on this line in Forest Hills to midtown in 20 to 25 minutes. I've read that Mae West once did the same from Brooklyn Manor station on Jamaica Avenue on the Woodhaven-Richmond Hill border.
By the way, just some trivia. Did you know that Mae West is buried in the Mausoleum in Cypress Hills Cemetery (not the one you can see from the Interboro, the one closer to the Glendale side)? One Sunday in the 80's I went there, and there was a caretaker there that showed us her crypt. I don't know if the mausoleum is still open on weekends like it used to be back then.
No, I didn't know Mae West was buried in Cypress Hills Cemetery. Makes sense, though, if she once lived in Brooklyn Manor. I have been told that the escape artist Houdini is buried in Cypress Hills Cemetery also.
Actually Houdini is in the Jewish Cemetery on the other side of Cypress Hills Street. I forgot which entrance it is at, but it is right near the gates when you come in, and says, "Weiss", which was his real last name. It's a family plot.
I remember his original last name of Weiss now that you mention it. I read that he took his stage name from Robert Houdin, a 17th or 18th century French magician.
Unless, of course, he's escaped.
Or did the job pick you?
Do you think that if there were enough demand, money in the Capital Plan, and a plan to extend a new Myrtle Av line (underground, say, with ADA stations) to downtown Brooklyn, that people would support it? Or would NIMBYs get in the way?
If you can get enough politicians behind it, who knows?
On the afternoon of Easter Saturday 1980 (April 5th), during and because of the transit strike, I walked from my Ridgewood home, west to and over the Willy B and downtown to 26 Federal Plaza, then back to Ridgewood over the Brooklyn Bridge and then dead east all the way on Myrtle Avenue from Jay Street to Cypress Avenue. I remember vacant lots but also many stores and apartment projects with big parking lots.
Bed-Stuy could still have been a vibrant neighborhood when the G was being built, but I understand it began its decline with the stock market crash of 1929, and the Depression, which wiped out the wealth of many affluent homeowners there. My father worked for the National Biscuit Company at Pacific Street and Classon Avenue in 1941, commuting from Bushwick (Rockaway Avenue) on the Fulton St. subway to Franklin Avenue. He says the neighborhood then wasn't bad but one still had to be alert and look tough.
On the upswing, I believe.
I agree, however we are talking about the 60's and 70's, and the generation that destroyed Penn Station. If that crossroads would have happened now and not 1969, they are so good now at making things look "retro",
At Myrtle-Broadway on the J line, they even put up "retro" lights, that although taller than the originals, copy the originals:
I don't know when the Metropolitan Depot building in the photo was replaced but when I started riding from Metropolitan to Navy St. to HS in 1968, there was an old wooden building in the same location that looked different. The present brick station house and concrete platform was built after the 1976 fire.
Quite an interesting thought. Do you mean the block after block, mass construction, circa WW I, of the blond and light orange brick two, three and six-family houses that account for most of Ridgewood's (and Glendale's) housing ?
That would be an interesting study : Ridgewood pre and post Myrtle Avenue el extension from Wyckoff to Metropolitan Avenue. On the Geological Survey map of Brooklyn dated about 1890 and available on this site, once can see Bushwick already densely and almost completely developed with row houses, with mostly only sparse and scattered houses in what is now Ridgewood and Glendale. I remember a photo of Kreuscher's Market at Myrtle and Cypress Avenues dated 1903, published by the Times Newsweekly in the fall of 1993, and that area looking so different from how it does now.
The block I grew up on, just west of the Metropolitan Ave. station, was built in the early 1920s as a result of the "Lutheran Cemetary Extension" of the el to Metropolitan.
Bushwick Avenue is a great Brooklyn street. It does boggle the mind that it once was a "high-toned" boulevard. There is an amazing variety of architecture along it. There is no logic in the world. Bushwick Avenue should be one of New Yorks' premiere streets. The reality should be: "Whyinhell should I go out to Long Island when I can live along this fine corridor?" What the hell is wrong with people that they would let Bushwick Avenue go to pot? People suck.
Sorry...
Well, things are starting to look up, although there's a long way to go before Bushwick Avenue would become a premiere street. At least the trends are favorable.
A major geopolitical shock that causes a huge increase in gasoline prices, for example the conquest of Saudi Arabia by Islamic fundamentalists, might lead to a major push toward urban living with its availability of transit. Something like that might make places like Bushwick Avenue highly desirable. Which isn't to say that an event of this sort would be good, given the huge consequences it would have for the nation's and world's economy.
Speaking of Islamic fundamentalists, albeit on a smaller scale, there is the Ansaru Allah (Black Muslim) community on the northwest wide of Bushwick Avenue just northwest of Myrtle Avenue.
Bushwick Avenue was once indeed a grand and glorious Brooklyn street, with offices of physicians, lawyers, auto showrooms, and steepled and spired mansions built by 19th century beer barons. Trommer's Beer Garden was located at Bushwick Avenue and Conway Street near Bway Junction.
A June 28 2003 NY Times article, "Something's Brewing in Bushwick", details the housing constructed from the former Rheingold Brewery near Bway-Myrtle. The RKO Bushwick Theater at Bway and Howard Avenue
is currently under renovation, perhaps to residential apartments. "GP 38 Chris" may have some more details on it.
So that's what going on there. On a passing (J) train, I also noticed that the original ornate facade was cleaned up too. Passing this theatre in the past you could see the destruction inside and figure had to be a "shooting gallery" also. Good to see the old building coming back to life instead of being demolished.
Bill "Newkirk"
Petula Clark's "Don't sleep in the subway" !
Bill "Newkirk"
Playing music in the subway is illegal and no permits are given out but people do it in certain places (i.e. Friendship Heights rotunda) anyway. Permits may be issued eventually.
My oh my, what is the world coming to?
It feels weird to be waiting for a train and instead you think you're in Macy's.
-Robert King
Bill "Newkirk"
Yeah, I guess that depressing PC black was a death sentence to any engine. The Amtrak "bloody nose" scheme was also dubbed "W.C.Fields". I heard the term G motor once, though not a popular moniker. Ever hear the nickname for the E-60, "The Flying Shoebox" ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Personaly I prefer The Brunswick Green over the Tusken Red.
I was A Union Station in Washington DC when 4935 was rededacated.
I watched Raymond Loewy sign his name to the locomotive.
John
If you want to see it, it's here
That’s TUSCAN Red, named after the province of Tuscany in Italy. "Tusken" means something that has tusks (remember the Tusken Raiders from Star Wars?) ;-)
Please excuse my spelling error. I was using one of my computers that did not have a word processor with spell check installed.
John
No, I remember the SAND PEOPLE.
It was the sand people that kidnapped Anakin Skywalker's mother, it was the sand people that Anakin killed in revenge.
They were referred to as “Tusken Raiders” in the books, the toys, the posters, and even in the Episode I movie. The term goes way back to the 1970s when the first movie came out—that is where I rememeber it from.
Thanks for bringing this back on-topic :) He designed the R-40 slant. And did a superb job with it.
Everything in Phase V, especially the new Shamu the newest Pax Logs (P42s) which eliminate the red from the scheme (how can the National Railroad Passenger Corp eliminate one of the colors of our flag, when it has always been there?), should join the redbirds on the bottom of the Atlantic, or the Pacific, or the Gulf of Mexico, hell even the great lakes, just whatever's closest! Why GE even thought they could make a diesel passenger engine with their slow-loading 4 stroke engines is beyond me, but the sad thing is Amtrak fell for it! Just like Acela, the manufacturer actually told Amtrak what it needed, and Amtrak friggin listened!
Here's hoping that the PL42AC is a success with it's EMD 710 heart, perhaps then Amtrak will be able to avert having an all-P42 diesel fleet and get something with some acceleration for the short haul stuff. Course if Amtrak also goes for the ALP46 (AEM8?) to supplement the quite clearly failed Acela and HHP-8 project, then we'll all have to have a good laugh at the 'lowly' State of New Jersey setting the trend in rail travel elsewhere in the country!
What, I can dream can't I?
Just like Acela, the manufacturer actually told Amtrak what it needed
What evidence do you have of this? Was it not Amtrak that kept telling BBD to change the specifications?
It ain't all that bad. Maybe with the Phase V scheme applied to a P-5 or K-4 would be a little over the top !
Bill "Newkirk"
Yeah, but I'd take a K-4 in Phase V over a P42 ANY DAY!
Hey, that would be cool. Because secret employee rides can lead to secret employee's friends rides.
Although some sources say 8000hp.
What's that about 100mph? Max speed? Design speed? What about the ALP-46's that are hauling the clockers? Are they allowed to do 125mph?
Acela 4935
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Linking directly to the image on the Railroad Paint Shop site is prohibited.
I apologize for the sloppy work...I did it quickly!
Don't got AIM? go to www.aim.com (excuse the lack of HTML, but it's not War and Peace you're copying!)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Print was sharp and in BETTER condition than the one which was shown
in August 2001....
Found a writeup outfront which was a NYTimes Article dated 8/31/2003
on the film.... should be something to look up in archives of NYT.
Thanks again all!
Something along those lines...
I think they should have asked for a million dollars at three-fifteen and, if the ransom came a minute late, they WOULDN'T shoot the two little kids.
I have no idea what you mean, but I found it highly unrealistic that those two kids, who weren't even tall enough to see out the railfan window, would show their excitement for the first 10 minutes of the film by constantly jumping up and down at the railfan window. I think they would have realized they couldn't see anything and would have moved on to some other activity.
Unca Selkirk sez "up yer meds" ... lest you turn out like ME.
That's not a BAD thing, is it? 0 :)
Thank you! I kept thinking of "Carrie," but she is just a human killer.
At least it was a different link!
The Killer Truck Films
Maximum Overdrive http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091499/
Trucks http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120380/
Both From The Same Stephen King Short Story "Trucks"
FWIW, the 8/31 review was there last Friday night, 8/29 :)
Did Union Square sb 6 platform have a scrolling text sign
over the LENGTH of the trackbed??
Check the movie.
When PELHAM barrels into Union Square sb, good heavens, I spied an LCD-like
sign ON THE FLOOR OF THE OVERPASS MEZZANINE which scrolled text
over the ENTIRE length of the sb trackbed..
Today, these signs wear "Stand Clear of the Platform Edge" and are relatively PETITE in size.
Check the movie.
The LONNNNG signs hanging from the mezzanine over the tracks I don't seem to recall existing....
In 1973? Amigito, your mom would've had to hold you up and pull the pacifier out of your mouth for you to notice.
I was born 77. While I do have vivid and detailed memoirs of subway
existence in the early 1980's, I was implying that I don't ever
recall seeing such a sign in any station... or a sign of THAT size.
Moreover, a reason to check the VHS frame by frame...
Jimmy
Definitely wanna pull out the VHS and hit slo-mo.
I coulda swore the screen had an LCD sign on the mezz which ran
the length of the sb 6 trackbed... NEVER seen that!!
Wish yous guys were here!!!
(Oh and when I get back I've got the excitement of putting down a wodge of money on a flat and getting the keys!)
A SAFE Trip, too!
The A route continues going away from the direction Fulton St is going. It goes under the east end of BMT's E.N.Y. yard. Maybe goes behind the Jamaica Depot entrance as it goes into Pennsylvania Ave to the next stop at Liberty Avenue.
No need for the NYCT map to show it - it's not relevant to their purpose.
I know that this might be dreaming a bit, but does anyone know if the 7 extension study include any possibility of perhaps re-opening and using the High-Line's existing EL structure at all?
Stego
The day that happens, all NIMBY's drop dead and Robert Moses comes back to life.
Mark
I think they are looking at connecting the north end of the "walking" High Line with the south end of the Javits Flushing extension.
My #7 preference is for it to run down 10th Avenue from 41 to 14 St, then over to 8th Ave to connect with the L. The hardest part is probably getting it past the Lincoln Tunnel entrance.
--Z--
--Z--
Fran
Two tracks wide.
Maybe there could ultimately be two spurs, one for Queens expresses and one for Queens locals.
The current 7 terminal is at 41 St/8th Av. The subway is to continue west to a new station at 41 St/10th Avenue. The line would curve southward and continue under 11th Avenue to 33rd Street, where the new Javits terminal would be located. Naturally, both new stations will be ADA compliant.
Look at page 19 of the Scoping Document (this defines what the DEIS will cover).
http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/7ext/draft_scoping.pdf
N Bwy
I have only had a short time to look at it but the only change I see so far is the ad for the exhibition at the TM store being replaced by an ad fro the reopening of the TM itself. It has a coupon for one free admission to the Museum (good from 9/16 to 13/31/2003) which must be surrendered at the time of visit (I hate to see a subway map cut up like that but such is life).
Just to note: The TM sotre in GCT still has the May edition. I got the September issue from the Information Booth in the main Terminal area.
Must be a typo, unless the Powers that Be have decided that this year would have 13 months. :-)
It should be 12/31/2003.
Peace,
ANDEE
Checkuary, n.:
The thirteenth month of the year. Begins New Year's Day and
ends when a person stops absentmindedly writing the old year on his
checks.
TOO DAMNED EARLY ... go to your ROOM! :)
If we don't bring you up a cup of milk at night,
Wells... You can always pull up a cow to your window
for a nice warm cup of Milk, brah.
The Hebrew Calendar has a 13th month every 2-3 years: Adar B (or Adar A, depending on how you look at it).
Normally (from the Bronx)I switch over to the BMT at 59th to get me over to 34th to pick up PATH, but today I had an early meeting in Manhattan so I had some extra time and walked around GCT. Sometimes if the weather is nice in the afternoon on the way home I will walk from 34th St up to GCT and pick up the Lex rather than N, R or W it to 59th for the Lex.
Walking in the main terminal I generally walk by the info booth to see what map they have because I have seen in the past that sometimes the booth has the latest one and as in this case the TMS had the previous one.
I have gotten the impression that the TMS likes to (or has to)use up as much of the supply of last issue of map they have before putting out the newer ones.
When I worked in the JPM Chase building at 4 MetroTech in Brooklyn (1992-1996) I visited the TA Information Center at 370 Jay often to see if anything was new. By the same token I also went to the Museum once a week during lunch just to say hi. I also did some of the signwork for the Museum store when it was located inside the exhibit area.
I would attend were it not for the lousy Smarch weather.
At least he ain't collecting 300 or so SOBIG viruses per night. :)
What's even MORE annoying though is what DOES get past our spitoon - all those antiviruses out there proudly sending me MORE copies of the damned thing like a cat dropping a mouse at your feet, "look at what I collected, daddy" ... agggh ... I wanna SUE McAfee ...
Anyhoo, don't COUNT on them coming from someone on subtalk per se ... a couple of viruses that circulated previously to folks on the subtalk list ended up NOT originating from someone here, but rather another place that some of us visit ...
No it wasn't me.
I just wish I could bill Microsoft for all the things I have to rummage through and delete from the mail server. Agggh. Can't just wipe it, gotta see if it's really a customer saying "Thank you" or "my details" or "that movie." If Microsoft had to pay us for damages, you can bet it'd get fixed.
Must be my circle of friends ?
Plus everyone already knows that I'm "SoBig"
I feel for your pain, my friend !
If you're REALLY feeling neglected, I could send ya some. Heh.
Nothing. Nada. Zip.
Not one e-mail with any of the "goodies" has arrived in my inbox.
Every piece of mail is scanned for viruses, worms and what-have-you before it ever hits my e-mail client, plus my ISP is very pro-active on the virus/worm front.
I'm not complacient. I keep my virus protection as up-to-date as I can and my anti-spam program gets the same treatment.
It's all how pro-active you are on the virus/worm fight that's important.
The goof-balls that keep creating this stuff will eventually add the MAC world and Linux to their hit lists, so be warned.
That'll be my last for this thread - don't wanna honk off Unca Dave.
Well, it is a RAPIDly spreading virus ;-)
And you are TRACKing it ;-)
But you are right it's off topic.
It was a labor of love though, as was mine that day.
TOY ONES???
C'mon now, toy trains are what one runs in the basement on top of a board, or maybe even those miniature steamers out in Shirley, but B.E.R.A. is far from being "toys"!!! As far as I know, every car there ran on the real road. Hell, when I was operating on Sunday, the only cars running that day were two cars that actually ran on the exact same right of way, 1602 & 775. So, please Kev, don't call B.E.R.A. toys, or I'll say that the Bruno Stadium in Albany is another Shea!!!
What I meant was "toy railroad" and I meant it in a LOVING way. But let's be real, ain't got a CPW dash, ain't got four tracks and the trains ARE a bit short compared to NYCTA. I've heard lots of people gripe about that. Me? I DO miss a ten car train of arnines ... it'd SURE be a lot of fun to watch the "guest operators" try to control one of THOSE. Heh. You really can't get into much trouble with just one car ... ain't like the slack action of ten of them, some with motors, some with brakes, it was "anything can happen day" at each application of the handle at a station stop. I'm sure there's a few old timers here who could tell ya what it was like.
And lookie here, wisebutt ... heh ... "Bruno's p*nis on the Hudson" is *NOT* Shea ... never was, never could be ... you've got to go to JOE BRUNO STADIUM which is hell and GONE from the tracks. And yeah, CHEAP BEER at taxpayer expense served at every game of the "Valley Cats" ... and check out who Joe Bruno got as a major league sponsor for his team ... heh:
http://www.tcvalleycats.com/main.php3
"One party, under Texas, with liberty and justice for Enron." :)
That is very true, but as I said, we do run cars that ran on that exact ROW, how much more realistic can it be?
I sure hope nobody thinks I'm *denigrating* Branford ... and it was there that I finally encountered for the first time as an adult the JOY of trolleys ... but I'm one of those awful rabid-transit types who WORKED the subways and I really DO miss running ten car sets of Arnines and 32's and such. Hell, even the TRANSIT museum can only come up with FOUR ... but a ten-pack of Arnines ... well, you had your hands full, literally and I'd LOVE to do THAT again. We gotta but some steel, some cement and put in a TUNNEL so's folks can REALLY hear the oldies for what they REALLY sounded like in the subways. Sound bouncing off trees and weeds doesn't really do it. Heh.
But yeah, down your way is about as real as it gets ... and it ain't like the TA's going to be giving me any handle time again. :(
The MIS guy opened one that got thru & the virus checker grabbed it so we could delete it. (as he opened it, I thought to myself "why don't you do that on YOUR machine !)
Peace,
ANDEE
He had an attitude about it often, but I can understand having an attitude when you actually know something.
I've met the Train Dude once at Coney Island, we were both there the day of a Rodeo, I was a guest of a friend.
some of us know enough about him not to bid on a job in his crew :-(
A $5 lifetime photo pass in the MTA, this pass would allow fans to take unlimited pictures, except the basic pass would only allow photos, that are not using tripods and no flash in the subway.
A $25 life time photo enhance pass would allow the use of tripods and flash (not infront of a driver) to take photos anywhere in the system.
The photo pass would have an ID # and a photo of you.
This Works because
1. The MTA makes money,
2. The photo pass is when a cop asks, the person has to show the photo card, no rules, no flimsy papers, just the card
3. The Enhanced Card would allow hardcore subway photographers to take their perfect photos, no matter what time or where, within respect to the drivers and operation of the MTA.
I think it would work, I would pay $5 to ensure I can take photos, and not be hassled by the cops and it's cheap.
MTA and/or NYPD seem to have some concern that people could be taking pictures for the purposes of planning or carrying out a terrorist attack. Valid or not, these concerns are what is creating the difficulty for railfan photographers.
Your proposal doesn't address the concerns of the MTA and/or NYPD other than to allow the hypothetical terrorist the ability to take pictures for a fee of $5. In fact, for $25 it allows them access that they have never enjoyed.
Finally, don't confuse making revenue with making money. This proposal has costs for the MTA which would likely far outstrip revenue. Somebody has to take the pictures, maintain the database, print and distribute the forms. The cards themselves would cost money. All for a measly $5 from maybe a few hundred railfans.
CG
end of tirade
--Z--
--Z--
It doesn't solve the problem that they say exists (forget that it doesn't need to, since no such problem exists).It's red tape for red tape's sake. The way you present it, it sounds like passes are free for the asking (and $5). Why not just make them free, and eliminate the "asking" requirement? Everyone gets an implied license to photograph - much like the regulations already provide today."Lifetime" isn't nearly as binding as you seem to think, or at least it wouldn't be for the purposes of any pass that they would offer.They make money? With your numbers, it sounds like it would barely bring in enough money to pay for the program. Bring them more in line with reality, and you've once again got a serious civil liberty question on your hands."When a cop asks, the person has to show the photo card, no rules, no flimsy papers, just the card": Better yet, how about this: they shouldn't attempt to enforce nonexistent regulations. No flimsy papers OR cards that way.What all of you self-described railfan photographers seem to forget is that plenty of other people want to take pictures in the system too - snapshots of "my visit to New York" (we all know that the subway is a major attraction) or even a local taking a picture of a friend making an odd face, circumstancially while on the subway. Should they need passes too? Should they have to pay for the privilege?
Mark
The polarized film in the cab door would be replaced by a completely opaque shutter which would be opened once a person swipes their Railfan MetroCard.
Oh please. You and I both know there are people on this board who would mortgage their houses for that.
At least $1,000.00 I'd say. $1,500 and they install a folding RFW seat for you.
Actually, PATCO's Vickers cars have that. You sit facing forward and look right through the window.
Hahahahahahahahaha...
Maybe you should stick a zero or two on the end of that... :(
If such a system were implemented (it does make sense), $5 would more likely get you a month-long pass, or a year at best...but lifetime, I doubt it.
Also spotted a five-car Rmadillo consist (6325-6321 ?) sitting on the track
leading from the 1 el down to the yard...
Sorry, my terminology is OFF after being ruffled panoramically by Mr. Blue.
First thing I noticed was spaces between cars (the slanted ends) which
made me look closer... which then revealed being 6 to 8 cars altogether..
The (grated silver) siding panels and large (WF-like) panoramic center windows helped me ID the cartype even more...
I might be off a bit, but those cars sure -WERE NOT- Red.
Oh yeah? Then explain what happened with the redbirds, ML vs. WF!
Right now it's easy. Put the R-33ML's back into service on the 4, bump all the remaining R-62's from the 4 to the 3, bump all the remaining R-62A's from the 3 to the 7, bump all the remaining R-36's to the ocean.
Starting from scratch it's not much harder. If the first batch of R-142's were placed on the 4 rather than on the 2, then the R-62's could have been shipped off to the 3 right away (even before retiring the 4's R-33's -- since shipping off its R-62's would have led directly to the more pressing R-36 retirement). Everything would have ended up the same, but the sequence of events would have been different. Right now we'd be waiting for those last few R-142's to enter service on the 2.
(Alternatively, put the first R-142's on the 3 instead of the 4 and send the R-62A's directly to the 7. The 4 would keep its R-62 fleet permanently. That's what was supposed to happen in the end at first, anyway.)
Then looking back down from the side view, I saw the cars were connected, I was able to safely conclude
those were slants (and what I'd seen was the roof-point where it slants downward)..
Some had interior lights on, some without.. and those without had
one SINGLE door (not a pair) which had been left open in a crooked
position (not vertical as it would if opened normally)..
Sure weren't redbirds....
(Tho it was a relief to see something OTHER THAN Redbirds on those tracks).
:)
But the Big Dig, over-budget though it was, was well-conceived and is now bearing fruit:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/03/business/03BOST.html?8hpib
or Link here.
--Z--
http://btw.klarkkent.de/nyc/starter.htm
Heh; same as I did in #39, just a bit neater :)
Jimmy
Jimmy
Please be mindful of the gap between the platform edge and the train...
The sweet sound is music to my ears!
Violin acceleration
The railroad gods were angry my friend. To quote George Costanza from TV’s Seinfeld, “Like and old man trying to send back soup in a deli.” Their mood was foul and their antics sinister. They fired poison darts and lightning bolts at us. Despite our most valiant efforts to overcome them, our powers of goodness were simply no match for their evil and wicked ways. Join me now as I recount the events of this day.
It was Monday, August 25th, 2003. The day was hot and steamy; a really typical late summer day in the Great Lakes region of the Midwest. It was the kind of day befitting of marking off sick and then heading off to either the Indiana or Michigan Dunes State Parks, relaxing on the beach and swimming in Lake Michigan. It was not the kind of day where you would want to be sitting in the cab of a locomotive where the temperatures are well in excess of 100° F; unless of course, you are insane.
We were heading south on train 336 this day. We had engines IC 6105 and 6204 with 146 cars. The train was not built for optimum train handling though as we had a large block of empties on the head end then a block of loads, then another big block of empties followed by another block of loads. This second block of loads was loaded with a bunch of heavies as it was mostly loads of meal. This was one of those character builder type trains; the kind that keeps you on your toes as you concentrate on keeping the thing together. There was an excessive amount of slack action going on as we rolled along. I did manage to keep it all in one piece the entire way, so at least I defended us from the antics of the railroad gods on this point.
As we were rolling across the Ludlow defect detector at milepost 106.2, the Control Display Unit (CDU) which is the head end box of my end of train telemetry system suddenly chirped out the familiar rapid succession of five beeps. This usually indicates an emergency application of the brakes has occurred. A quick glance at the display screen showed the air pressure reading “00” which means there is no air on the tail end. I quickly dropped the throttle from run 8 to run 1 and waited. During the wait I could feel the slack in the train changing. After a good five seconds the emergency application finally reached the engines.
Remember how I earlier described the train being made up with all those empties ahead of all those loads? This is where train make up quickly becomes a strategic factor. The empties are slowing down rapidly while all those loads are not. Oh they are slowing down, but at a lesser rate as there is all that weight to overcome. At 44 MPH, this is the kind of stuff derailments are made of. Our speed is dropping towards zero, but not evenly. Those loads shoving against the empties can cause severe buff force which, under the right circumstances, can jackknife cars causing to a derailment.
I knew it was coming and was prepared for the slack to run in against us. Sure enough, we got smacked as all those loads came crashing in. Here’s hoping that everything is on the rail and we are still on one piece. I was attempting to control the run in of slack by keeping minimal pressure on the locomotive brakes so that they didn’t slow down too soon to create even more buff force against the train while at the same time, keeping the engines from actually running out from the train which can cause a train separation, commonly referred to as a break in two, from happening. And while all this was occurring, I was also sticking my head out the window and looking back at the train for signs of dust flying or perhaps even the sight of a car derailed. There was nothing visible for the distance I could see, so that was a pretty good sign anyway.
“I see nothing!”
Once stopped, I recovered the emergency application and sent the air back to the train. After five minutes we still had no air coming on the tail end. So my conductor had to head back and start inspecting the train looking for some sort of problem. As it would happen today, I have the world’s slowest human being for a Conductor. I’m not going to say he creeps along, but snails and turtles have been known to pass him on his strolls. This walk might take awhile.
I reported our problem to the Desk Two Dispatcher. I also told him that we had come to a stop on the defect detector. Sixty-nine of our total of 596 axles did not receive a proper inspection so we would need to physically inspect the rear eighteen cars of the train once we got our problem found and corrected. Our Desk Two du jour, Jim Morrisey told me that he had already called Champaign Yard and a Car Inspector would be coming out to assist us.
The Conductor found the problem between the ninety-third and ninety-fourth cars; the air hoses between them had parted. About this time I heard from our old pal General Equipment Foreman Ed Karlin who was en route to assist along with one of the Car Inspectors from Champaign. Ed was out and about and when he learned of our plight, headed our way. The Carman would meet up with Ed and us.
My Conductor took care of the air hoses and we now had air pumping all the way through the train. My CDU indicated that air pressure was being restored on the tail end of the train. This is a good sign; it means the rest of the train is in one piece anyway. Ed and the Carman would inspect both sides of the rest of our train as we departed. A kind soul from Paxton named Charles Werner heard our plight and headed out to lend a hand. He picked up the Conductor and drove him into the town of Ludlow which was about half a mile from where I was stopped. I would be able to pick him up there as we got rolling again. I have made arrangements for Mr. Werner to get a CN Midwest Division timetable for his efforts.
Once I built up enough brake pipe air pressure, I started heading south at a slow rate of speed so that Ed and Robin the Carman could give us a good looking over. They were waiting at Ludlow where I picked up the Conductor. They had to stop us several times to knock off a total of five hand brakes and remake an air hose that appeared about ready to come apart.
We were informed that we would be swapping trains at Rantoul instead of going all the way to Champaign. We would get train 343 there and head back towards Markham. We affected the swap with the crew that brought the train out from Champaign and started our trip north. We had the IC 1001 and IC 1039 with 40 loads, 85 empties, 7900 tons and 7521 feet.
Things went along pretty good for the trip back. It was a good running train that also handled well. We knew we likely would not make it back to Markham alive. We were getting long in the tooth and were like salmon swimming upstream. The southbound fleet would be coming at us and we would be facing several meets. We were discussing the opposition coming at us and also the fact that Amtrak 392 would be closing in behind us figuring they would be looking to get him around us somewhere. So now it was speculation as to how far north we would make it before the sand in the hours of service glass would run out.
Little did we know the railroad gods were not yet finished with us this day.
Between Buckley and Del Ray I noticed a slight drop in brake pipe pressure on the tail end of the train as indicated by my CDU. This is not uncommon as sometimes, even when not using the air, you will get mild fluctuations in your reading. Block signal 90.2 came into view as I rounded the curve north of Buckley and I could see an approach diverging (yellow over green) indication which told me we would be diverging onto track two at Del Ray. As I approached the defect detector at milepost 89.7, known as the Del Ray Detector, I was beginning to slow the train with the dynamic brakes. I had to reduce the speed from 60 to 40 MPH, the prescribed speed through the turnout at Del Ray. As the slack was bunching up in the train, I observed the brake pipe pressure beginning to drop rapidly on my CDU. The train didn’t go into emergency, but the pressure was dropping at a rate higher than a service reduction as if I had set the air. This is not good. I could now feel the air brakes of the train beginning to take hold and combined with the dynamic brakes, the train was rapidly loosing speed.
Now, best I could hope for was to get stopped before reaching the Del Ray Detector. Don’t need a repeat of having to get a physical roll by inspection of the train here, especially with the fleet coming at us. I managed to bring the train to a stop about a quarter mile short of the detector. This my friends, was some of the best luck we would have for the rest of the evening.
I could hear those railroad gods beginning their mischievous and sinister laugh. You know that laugh, only audible to Locomotive Engineers and dogs.
Once stopped, the air began to rise a bit, but then it seemed to reach a plateau at 50 PSI. So once again, the world’s slowest human being had to begin to walk the train at his leisurely gait and ascertain and hopefully, correct the air problem. I again contacted Jimmy Morrisey at Desk Two and explained our dilemma. He was thrilled.
A problem is found and the Conductor tells me we had a gasket blow out from in between two hoses. A gasket blow out? This is highly unlikely as the hoses are held very tightly together and in twenty-five years of railroading, I have never had a gasket blow out from in between hoses that were made. I’ve had numerous other problems with the hoses and connections but never the gasket blow out. So needless to say, I was skeptical. The Conductor changed out one of the gaskets, remade the hoses and the air began to rise on the tail end in the very fashion that George Westinghouse designed when he created the charged air brake system.
Amtrak 392 was now in coming into the picture, so Desk Two decided to have the Conductor remain where he was and instructed me to take the train when ready, to Del Ray. He would have 392 stop and pick up my Conductor, who was some seventy-five or so cars back. 392 would then drop off my Conductor at my engines when they reached them; a very logical plan that made perfect sense. However, the railroad gods would not hear of it. They posses even more power than any Train Dispatcher, even one of our Dispatchers I call the “Polish Prince of Darkness.”
I got rolling again, proceeded by the Del Ray detector getting the “No defects” message and started to head into number two track. With the train about halfway through the turnout at Del Ray, the air began to drop again. Then it went into emergency. My guess was that the fix performed by my Conductor was not the proper treatment as his diagnosis was incorrect. Why is it that I always seem to know when I am right about something being wrong? I guess it’s a gift. Again I called Desk Two with this news. I’m almost certain Jimmy was ecstatic.
I recovered the air and began to pump it back into the train. “BEEP, BEEP, BEEP” went my CDU. This meant FRED was getting it up back there and the air was being restored through the entire train. Hmm, maybe a stroke of good luck; maybe.
Once I had about 63 PSI showing on my CDU, I knew I had a release of the brakes throughout the train and I could begin to move again. And so I did. As the train started moving again, the air continued to rise and rise quickly. Good omen, I hope. The best thing about hope is the government hasn’t figured out a way to tax it, yet. So I’m feeling a little better about things.
Desk Two calls and tells me to take the train all the way to Route 24 in Gilman, secure it and they would have 392 stop to pick me up there and take us home. We certainly would not have time to make it much further than this, so again, a very logical plan that made perfect sense. And of course, we would now be riding in air conditioned comfort.
Before we continue, let me set the table here as to what is happening around us. 194, the hot shot Chicago to New Orleans Intermodal train is rapidly approaching from the north. The plan now set up by Desk Two is to have 392 pull into number two track behind us at Del Ray. He would stop there once clear of the control point. 194 would run south passing us at Rt. 24 and 392 at Del Ray. Once 194 cleared, Desk Two would then back 392 out of number two track onto the single track and then head him north onto number one track around us. I have dubbed meets like this as “threesomes.”
And now back to our feature presentation. With brake pipe pressure doing well and the train rolling pretty good, I start through the quaint little town of Onarga. This town is the landscaping capital of Illinois as there are several large wholesale landscape nurseries here that supply retail nurseries all over the place. There are five road crossings in the town, with four of them very close together. The fifth one is at the north end of the town, about a third of a mile from the rest of them. Can you envision what is coming next?
As I’m rolling through town, the CDU suddenly yells out it five note chorus again. While we didn’t go into emergency, the brake pipe pressure began to drop rapidly yet again. The train came to a stop with all five crossings blocked, and my Conductor is miles away getting picked up by Amtrak. There is serious talk within the industry to, at some point, operate trains with just a single person on board and someday possibly with nobody on board. Here is a prime example of why this idea will be a prelude to disaster. I quickly and effectively had this town completely divided into two separate pieces. No emergency personnel could possible get through without having to drive miles and miles out of their way to get from one side of town to the other. I have essentially taken the town hostage.
“Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of men? The Shadow knows.”
Again I contact Jimmy at Desk Two and again, I fill him in on our plight. He didn’t say too much. I think perhaps he was hoping for a visit from the boys in those clean white coats upon receiving this latest bit of news.
The clock on the wall is rapidly becoming our enemy here. We have less than forty-five minutes to work now and have the world of Onarga to ourselves. Actually, I have it to myself as the Conductor is still quite the distance away. I quickly try a creative method to get the air to restore in the train and to my luck, it works! The air pressure starts coming up on the CDU. Again, as soon as I can get enough air up to move the train, I start to do so. I start rolling slowly and all seems to be well. The brake pipe air is again, quickly rising. To Route 24 we go.
As I get about one and a quarter miles from Rt. 24, the railroad gods decide to have their way with us just once more; for the road I guess. All of a sudden the CDU starts singing its woeful song yet again. Don’t you know any other tunes? The air didn’t just begin to drop this time, it just went right into emergency. When I came to a stop yet again, I was about one mile south of Rt. 24. For all practical purposes, this was the middle of nowhere. There was a little private crossing used by one of the nurseries about ten car lengths behind the engines, but I don’t know if there is a way for a cab to access this road to reach the train. I’ll explain this in a bit.
Once stopped, I tried to recover the air, but my luck (sic) had run out. No air was being restored to FRED on the tail end. Once again I notified Desk Two. I did some quick calculating and figured I had managed to clear four of the five road crossings in Onarga, so they were opened for business again. Amtrak verified this fact when they came around us. The Onargans could live without the one crossing I guess. Hey, four out of five isn’t so bad. In baseball if you get a hit four out of every five times at bat you have a batting average of .800 which is phenomenal.
I informed Desk Two that I would not be able to move the train as there was a serious problem and I was not able to get the air back. I informed him the sands of time had about run out for us as well, that we had one crossing in Onarga blocked and that we were a mile from Rt. 24. Four at once, I guess this would be the railroad’s version of a grand slam.
“You can put it on the board, YES!”
I explained to him that there was a private crossing here close to the engines, but I wasn’t certain if a cab driver with a relief crew would be able to find it in the dark and even if they did find it would be accessible. He said if the relief crew had to walk from 24 to reach the train, then so be it. There was nothing else we could do. Glad it would be them not me. Did I mention that there was also a feeding frenzy for mosquitoes occurring this evening? I was also informed that a Carman from Champaign was being summoned to come up here in an attempt to try to correct the problem on this train.
So now, while waiting for 392 to come take out of this living hell, I began to tie down the train. I then gathered up both mine and the Conductor’s goodies and grips. As 392 rolled past our train, they stopped where they heard the air blowing. The Amtrak Conductor and Assistant Conductor made a fix (or so they believed) then brought the train up to the head end to pick me up. I boarded and we exchanged pleasantries as the train then quickly rolled up to the station, a little “Amshack” at Rt. 24.
“Quick, drive me off this picture.”
Like a little parade, the Amtrak Conductor, Assistant Conductor, my Conductor and I headed up to the club car to get something to drink. Only in this case being that we were still on duty even though expired under the hours of service, we did not get to partake in any of that fun stuff that is distilled or fermented. No, instead I took a caffeine fix and had a cup of coffee. Most of you are probably aware that caffeine is one of the five basic food groups for all railroaders along with grease, salt, cholesterol and alcohol. Although in the case of alcohol, it is when off duty and not subject to call.
Even though we are dead on the hours of service, we are still on duty for pay purposes and of course, still on the property. We are dead on the hours but not completely dead. I guess this would make us zombies.
In processing up to the club car, we of course, had to pass all those passengers that were pretty likely totally disgusted with this train now being an hour late. I was thinking that perhaps it might possibly get ugly and that a riot might break out, or even worse, vigilante justice. Cool heads prevailed and several of the folks even joked with us about the affair. All that waiting they had to do, maybe the club car attendant was giving them two drinks for the price of one to calm their spirits.
The Amtrak Conductor, my Conductor and I eventually headed back to the deadhead car at the rear of the train and laughed and joked a bit about the events of the evening. The rest of the trip home was quiet and uneventful.
We didn’t get tied up until 2210 hours though, nearly two hours after we went dead.
I learned the following day what the problem was with the train. I spoke with the Conductor of the relief crew that came and got the train. It wasn’t a defective gasket like my Conductor thought and like I doubted. Apparently a glad hand, the metallic fitting at the end of each hose that couples the hoses together was defective on one of the cars. It was loose and when it flexed from the slack action and dynamics of the train moving, it would slip at the point where it connected to the rubber portion of the hose and begin to leak. Depending upon how much the hose flexed determined how much and at what rate the air would leak. The Champaign Carman replaced the hose and they had no other problems with the train.
The relief Conductor told me the cab driver was also able to locate the private road in the dark and able to drive them up close to the engines, so they didn’t have to walk a mile amongst the mosquitoes. I guess the railroad gods had done enough for one evening and called it a day.
Trips like this are proof that life truly is stranger than fiction. After a day like this one, I don’t think that even my literary hero Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. could even make something like this up.
Once again freely quoting those words that Kurt wrote and that I read so many years ago,
And so it goes.
Tuch
Hot Times on the High Iron, ©2003 by JD Santucci
One post script; I have sent several chapters of my manuscript to a publisher to read. Perhaps he will be interested and desire to pursue this project. More news as it happens.
MTA Planning Document
http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/mic/index.html
Elevating the station without creating an excesively steep grade would mean elevating a good stretch of the line on both sides, building a new station, and then adding elevators and escalators. You're talking about a job possibly running to $500 million.
The upgrade is justified. Perhaps some highway pott money can be identified to create a RR overpass to replace the other grade crossing. I don't know exactly how that could be done.
Herricks Road. It was marked for elimination after a van load of teenagers raced a train to the grade crossing and lost ... actually, it is more precise to say it was a tie. In any event, the grade crossing elimination project took several years to accomplish and went monstrously over budget. All of which proves that Typical New York Incompetence does not end at the Nassau line.
http://www.portcement.org/tr/tr_cs_herricks.asp
http://www.bergerlehman.com/constr1.htm
http://www.vnhp.org/LIRR.htm
Service on the 14th Street Canarsie Line started in 1924 from 6th Avenue in Manhattan to Montrose Avenue in Brooklyn. In February 1927 to clear the way for this line 97 caskets were moved in Evergreen Cemetery and in Most Holy Trinity Cemetery. Also in that month the City of New York’s Board of Transportation received bids from contractors on building five subway stations (Morgan Avenue, Jefferson Street, DeKalb Avenue, Myrtle Avenue and Halsey Street) with work tobe completed in 180 working days. In August 1928 the line was completed from 8th Avenue to Canarsie.
Wow, five subway stations built in 189 working days! And just think, the Wilson Ave station is built on top of former gravesites, maybe it should have been included in the Subway Hauntings thread.
So you can indulge in your dark fantasies about how New York is going to hell if you want. But it's not a particularly constructive or helpful attitude to take and it doesn't accomplish anything.
Wouldn't it be nice if the TA didn't remove the crossing at E.105 Street?
Well, let's not go overboard. Subway-like frequency of service means you really need to close the thing because it's a pain for the TA to maintain and for the neighborhood to deal with.
At least the LIRR crossings are only really busy at rush hours.
A quick check at LIRR Mineola timetable page
shows 73 westbound and 76 eastbound. Let's see...149 divided by 24 = about 6 TPH.
Oh, I agree. I thought of that after I posted. I had only counted scheduled stops at Mineola. Figure all those examples you cited add maybe another 50 movements a day?
But then come back at noon and the crossing gates are open, undisturbed for half an hour.
Overnight, when scheduled service is more scarce.
On the subway, service frequency fluctuates too, but the variation is less, and service runs 24 hours a day. So I still maintain it's more a pain than a RR crossing.
That ain't gonna happen any time soon. They are in the final phase of completing the Mineola Blvd. overpass reconstruction, so elevating the tracks are out.
However, the next big thing is to triple track the line between Floral Park and Hicksville which is sorely needed. The way the new overpass is situated may even have provisions for a third track.
Bill "Newkirk"
Bill "Newkirk"
This type of decision is usually not a spur of the moment type thing.
David
How would all of these riders have found out that the (9) was being dropped? It hasn't been announced publicly, AFAIK.
David
If skip-stop is going to remain, could you try to find out why?
Sean@temple
With time and experience you will overcome your senility and learn much. :0)
Have you considered that maybe it's OK for people to be ignorant on occasion and learn from Subtalk? At least Ron for a change was uninsulting in asking what city was being referred to.
Have you considered that maybe it's OK for people to be ignorant on occasion and learn from Subtalk?
Its ok for normal people, not self proclaimed ageist know-it-alls. Ron seems to take joy in throwing stones in his glass house.
Sean@temple
Anybody who would be able to answer your question would understand it too.
You did it twice. That's not a typo (i.e., an accidental hitting of the wrong keys); that's a failure to know the acronym.
I really don't mind that you don't know the acronym. Nobody here knows everything. I just mind that you criticize another for asking a simple uninsulting question. I don't mind if you criticize him when he is insulting, but this time he wasn't.
I also do the same thing with MTBA as opposed to MBTA, although now I use MTBA on purpose because it is rolls better off the tongue and you can infer some humour out of it (sort of like LIAR instead of LIRR).
I don't mind if you criticize him when he is insulting, but this time he wasn't.
I am taking the offensive on Ron.
Apparently it's working; some find you offensive.
No. I just like cracking your railfan window once in a while.
:0)
You sure post ALOT for someone who's bedridden in recovery.
Aside,
FYI I've known a few folks in Physical Therapy and they've
found soothe of their pain through medication and massaging.
Here I see you posting frequent--- so I'd got to wondering what
that does to help you heal!
Sorry their way don't work for you.
I don't know about others, but I find it kinda hard to believe
ANYTHING someone says after they come onboard and make a spectacle of
themselves their first days here... (memoirs of SlantR40 and dialog postings
every 3 minutes).
I DO wish you well in recovery.
I, along with Jersey Mike, just didn't find any (logical) relation to this particular thread.
(Maybe we'd all have BETTER relations if you didn't su*k your brake pipe
so damn hard everytime someone inquires of your status).
I was simply asking what POSTING here does to HELP YOU HEAL.
See? Now WHO looks misaligned?
Thanks & Put away the caps..
There's hope afterall.... :)
The issue was with the content of your THREADS and POSTS.
Back in April, you came along onboard (with SlantR40 Vlad) and you both (coincidentally?)
posted dialogs back and forth between you both (overloading the bandwidth
and drowning out topical discussions of the board).
Asked to "take it to email", you refused.
--Asif ALL EYES were to be on you.--
And when all eyes WERE on you, you had an illness and were hospitalized and.......
that's when the loopholes in your story began to show.
Thus, led the readers herein to each develop their own opinion on you.
(Some wishing recovery, others wishing ____who knows___).
It's hard for us to take "joshing" from you because we have
no way of knowing you serious from you comical.
I've never run for HALL MONITOR... but atleast I can be a minority with a voice.
JerseyMike proposed a solution, I think is feasible for 1 and all.
:)
Illogical and silly post on your part, South Ferry. Nobody overloads bandwidth and drowns out anything here.
It's easy enough to change the way posts are displayed on your screen, using the filters and killfile (if you were to actually decide you needed that).
Illogical and silly post on your part. There is someone who overloads bandwidth on this board with more than 1000 posts a month.
Gee, I didn't notice anybody overloading anything. I notice you posting as much as you want, whenever you want, subject only to your own daily quota.
Stop whining.
Must be the senility. With time you'll learn to overcome it.
I notice you posting as much as you want, whenever you want, subject only to your own daily quota.
It's true what they say about memory being the first to go. We're all subject to a 52 post daily limit.
Umm, No.
Mike's got his partner in crime.... (I'm not from Royal Island!).
Just because we are two separate citizens who share a mutual opinion that must = we are compadres in cahoots?
Not necessarily.
For the record, I've never met JerseyMike. :) lol
You've met his loved ones many times. They have this habit of greeting you and your train with bright yellow smiles - some horizontal, some vertical, some diagonal. :0)
Nice try...but he won't answer direct questions. That's one of the reasons why, until circumstances change, I won't even believe that he is as injured as he makes out to be. Nope, he lost me after his big hospital fraud back in April.
You know that there are a wide variety of new and exciting drugs that can help you block out the pain probably even better than posting and would not inflict long load times on the rest of us nor excessive bandwidth costs on Dave.
CC, the reason we find issue with you is because of your inunderstandable posts that neither ask questions nor present facts or stories. Notice that when you post that comes close to a question I do my best to answer it. If you modify the style of your posts we will cease to bug you.
BAM!
Hit the nail on the head, Mike!
Same dilemma occurs with cdta and how others don't comprehend
the relevant logic (nor proppar grammer) of his posts.
(irrelevancy = conflicts = reader disorientation).
The issue is NOT with CC LOCAL himself.
Your suggestion sounds like a feasible solution I'm sure we can all live with...
People need not take EVERYTHING they read to heart.
Good Sound Advice for SubTALKers like you and I and all.
Sorry, I couldn't resist
--Z--
It's like a traffic jam when you're already late
a no smoking sign on your cigarette break
like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
isn't it ironic dont you think
Damn now that song will be in my head for the rest of the day !
OK,OK, so I focusded on the the iron part.
Justice would be if the grave were moved to make way for a new subway tunnel.
Mark
(Advisory: This concert won't pass for a "Date").
Need More info, just scroll down the subtalk index, if you have it set to at least 2 days there should be like 4 notices between Subtalk and Bustalk!
Let me try one on you:
"One of my favorite restaurants, Tony's di Napoli, is one of the targets."
That's a good enough reason all by itself to build the SAS. Dynamite that greasy dive and put a new subway entrance right smack where the kitchen is now."
There - how's that?
:0)
"First, rub on the salt and pepper, then baste with your choice of honey-mustard or BBQ sauce."
"Turn slowly on the spit, cooking until the juices run clear and your bird is 160 degrees inside by a thermometer check"
"Slice and serve immediately with a cranberry sauce garnish and fresh corn on the cob."
:0)
"It's one of those things where nobody wants it in their back yard, but it has to be done somewhere."
-Bruce Dimpflimaer
BTW, I hope his reasturant is the first one condemmed.
Probably enough for relocation.
> To me it's a win-win situation.
Compensation will not cover the higher rent that these businesses will likely pay after relocation. They could possibly temporarily lose some business while they're closed and until their regular customers find them again. And they may permanently lose the business of customers who do not find their new location convenient.
I could care less about chain stores like Duane Reade and CVS as well. They'll have no problem relocating. Its the smaller ones that will hurt.
What I like about the situation is that the MTA is private when it fits their needs, and public when laws involving public agencies come into play.
Not all businesses will pay higher rents. Some might, but some might not. In particular, those who last renegotiated their leases during the go-go late 1990's may well find their rents significantly reduced.
While property owners rather than tenants are paid for condemned properties, given the scope of this project it may be possible for some tenants to be compensated for the temporary loss of revenues during the relocation process. Lastly, while a particular business may lose some regular customers in its new location, it probably will gain some too.
Let be real. Current residents and business are going to lose tons of building during construction and see little bennifit from completion
That is the price for progress. It is unfortunite
The real issue in eminent domain is whether government should be permitted to take property in redevelopment projects, in order to increase employment, the tax base, and available housing. If the answer is no, then already developed cities, with already subdivided properties, will find it impossible to compete with "greenfield" sites on the suburban fringe for development, and will slowly rot. But if the answer is yes, the government can seize the property of one private owner to give it to another, with all kinds of potential for abuse.
They relocated further up Northern Blvd and let me just say that after bitching and moaning that they would lose their steady clientele it turned out that their steady customers not only followed them but they also picked up A LOT MORE business since it turned out to be a better location after all...
Peace,
ANDEE
This is your browser automatically filling in forms it has seen before (to save you time, of course) regardless of the default values provided by the server.
It was one of the reasons I came to NY, but I was lucky, all the GOs were cancelled because of the blackout.
We transferred from the D at 5th Ave, and the first set to come along was all redbirds. I was pretty happy... =)
I'm glad I came when I did... 105 left... wow... not even ten 11-car sets.
That's a BIG streetcar!!!
Examples of shuttles which did not connect with another line at one end were the 135-145th Street Shuttle and the Dyre Avenue shuttle.
But the Polo Grounds Shuttle connected with the D Line at 155th Street and the Jerome Avenue Line at 167th.
Why did the Board of Transportation keep it going after the rest of the el closed in 1940? I would guess that one reason was that the Bronx section was only about twenty-two years old then, and the city was relunctant to scrap the investment. It remained in service for another eighteen years.
Now you wouldn't want to strand the good people of the Putnam Division in the South Bronx, would you? :)
You would be able to find an article on the overall capital plan, and sometimes the priority list in the Times index, although not on each separate project, for the most part.
-- Ed Sachs
The Polo Grounds.
Bill "Newkirk"
At any rate, besides Putnam division riders [ btw, prior to 1916,
the Put crossed the bridge that later carried the "polo grounds
shuttle" and terminated in Manhattan at the polo grounds],
Sedgewick Ave did get some business. Although on the map
it may look like an easy walk from that neighborhood to the
Jerome Ave el, if you know the terrain, you'd recall that a very
steep hill stands in your way. Anderson, well, I'm not sure
how many people used that station in the shuttle days, but it
was sort of there anyway.
I really enjoyed looking at the photos and text in the link in a previous thread about the Shuttle. From the Forgotten NY web site, I think. Tommy Meehan
--Mark
Back in the 1870's there was a real possibility that the steam RRs would have had used elevated structures as entryways into various parts of New York City (Manhattan). There was a great deal of financial and political wrangling done in this effort. The New York & Hudson River RR of the Vanderbilt interests was the primary backer in this operation. However, by the time the all the dust and dollars settled, the NY&N emerged as a suburban carrier from the Polo Grounds Station to Yonkers. At that time, even it's lightest equipment was too heavy for the early elevated structures of the day. The Manhattan elevated lines were controlled by a number of interests including the Vanderbilts, who would attempt to block each other in their attempts to reach downtown New York by elevated rail structure. Those financial doings and undoings far surpassed the technology of the day to make those plans a reality. So, the Polo Grounds El station only became a transfer point from the NY&N to the 9th Ave Manhattan Elevated Line. Construction of the 9th Ave El moved northward. On Dec 1, 1879, the 145th and 155th Street stations were opened. The NYC&N Bridge and structure to the Polo Grounds opened in May of 1881. It would be interesting to know the type of equipment used by the NY&N during the steam era on the El and after electrification prior to the termination of NY&N service over the bridge on Jan 6, 1918. The NY&N bridge was leased to the IRT for 999 years to become part of the IRT 9th Ave El / Jerome Ave line connection, which would open on July 1, 1918.
I have scanned in two pics from the book The Putnam Division by Gallo and Kramer to help illustrate the connections. The NY&N locomotives are not present in the 1880's steam era image. The book pictures a 2-4-4t, which appears much heavier than the Forney 0-4-4T's of the El. The NY&N Yonkers Branch passenger equipment was lighter than the mainline equipment and appeared to be similar to the El cars.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mellowone_99/vwp?.dir=/Mellow+One%27s+Pix/NYCPIX&.dnm=NY%26N155.jpg&.view=t
The image of the Sedgwick Ave Term from about 1940 clearly shows the former connecting structure there.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mellowone_99/vwp?.dir=/Mellow+One%27s+Pix/NYCPIX&.dnm=SedgewickTerm.jpg&.view=t
Another historical connecting El/RR structure existed on the 2nd/3rd Ave El structure at the Harlem River. That shuttle operation used elevated railway equipment throughout its history. The train ran from the Harlem River Station of the NYNH&H in the Bronx to the 129th Street Station complex of the 2nd Ave El on Manhattan. This connection was the vestige of the New Haven's attempt to link its main line directly into Manhattan via the 2nd Ave El Structure.
Possibly, the 3rd Ave El structure on 42nd St which became Grand Central Shuttle may have originally been planned to connect with the terminal trackage to carry New York Central Trains further south as the original terminal had been at 23rd St. For a time, passenger cars were horse drawn from Grand Central down to the former Madison Square terminal.
I am 5 years old. My dad comes to me and says:
Dad: Listen, son, the man on our crystal radio set says they've just passed the bond issue to build The Second Avenue Subway to replace the 3rd Avenue el.
Paul: Golly gee willikers, Dad. Maybe we can take the trolley across the Williamsburg Bridge and we'll ride it together! And I'll take my Captain Video decoder ring!
1955
Dad: Come watch on our 12-inch round-screened DuMont TV which just came back from the repair shop for the 16th time, and see that they've just closed the Third Avenue el. That means they're soon going to build The Second Avenue Subway to replace it!
Paul: Gosharoonie, Dad! Maybe we'll ride on it before I get out of Junior High, as soon as we've watched the Uncle Miltie show!
1972
Railfan Friend: Hey, Silver Leaf guy, I heard on my cheap Japanese transistor radio that they've finally broken ground for The Second Avenue Subway.
Paul: Great! Maybe we'll have a ride on it before I'm married and have kids! If the Viet Cong don't invade first.
2003
Paul's Kid #1: Hey, dad, the cable news channel says they're going to be starting construction on the full length, super-duper Second Avenue Subway soon!
Paul: At last! Maybe we'll ride it before you graduate from college, have a family and join the AARP!
2036
Nursing Home Nurse: Mr. Matus?
Paul: What?!?!?
Nurse: You were a train buff, right?
Paul: What?!?!?
Nurse: I just heard via the Vulcan Mind Meld Chip in my brain that they opened the first part of The Second Avenue Subway from 125th Street to 115th Street.
Paul: What?!?!?
Nurse: The Second Avenue Subway, The Second Avenue Subway, I SAID THEY OPENED THE SECOND AVENUE SUBWAY!!!!
Paul: The Second Avenue el, you say! Did they finally get those smoky steam engines off it!!!
Nurse: NOT THE EL!!!! THE SUBWAY!!!!
Paul: What?!?!?
**********************
And you guys wonder why I don't get excited with all the latest Second Avenue Subway news.
When I read in one of the newspaper articles talking about the guy in the drug store at 72nd and 2nd talking about how it had been there for 50 years, the thought occured to me that this was a store that had opened at one of the other times when the 2nd Avenue subway was a pretty hot item. How did they think that the thing was going to be built? Heck-there would have been more disruption to that community at that time. How much property would have been taken at that time to build the turnoff to the 76th Street tunnel? (76th Street in Manhattan, that is. I don't want to deal with that other one).
If the 2nd Avenue line is killed off again, it's going to be because it died the death of a thousand wounds, not because of one big thing. If that happens, I can't believe that anyone will ever raise the issue again, and all of the people who are now doing the NIMBY dance will go back to whining about how overcrowded the Lex is again.
Thank you for the morning laughs. :)
Do you really think the Vulcan Mind Meld Chip will be available in 2036? I have heard rumours of a VMMC prototype being worked on, code named Ichabod, but nothing more definitive ....
--Mark
Adam
Should we place bets down on how long it will take for construction to be "suspended" for another 30 years?
I am 5 years old. My dad comes to me and says:
Dad: Listen, son, the man on our crystal radio set says they've just passed the bond issue to build The Second Avenue Subway to replace the 3rd Avenue el.
Paul: Golly gee willikers, Dad. Maybe we can take the trolley across the Williamsburg Bridge and we'll ride it together! And I'll take my Captain Video decoder ring!
1955
Dad: Come watch on our 12-inch round-screened DuMont TV which just came back from the repair shop for the 16th time, and see that they've just closed the Third Avenue el. That means they're soon going to build The Second Avenue Subway to replace it!
Paul: Gosharoonie, Dad! Maybe we'll ride on it before I get out of Junior High, as soon as we've watched the Uncle Miltie show!
1972
Railfan Friend: Hey, Silver Leaf guy, I heard on my cheap Japanese transistor radio that they've finally broken ground for The Second Avenue Subway.
Paul: Great! Maybe we'll have a ride on it before I'm married and have kids! If the Viet Cong don't invade first.
2003
Paul's Kid #1: Hey, dad, the cable news channel says they're going to be starting construction on the full length, super-duper Second Avenue Subway soon!
Paul: At last! Maybe we'll ride it before you graduate from college, have a family and join the AARP!
2036
Nursing Home Nurse: Mr. Matus?
Paul: What?!?!?
Nurse: You were a train buff, right?
Paul: What?!?!?
Nurse: I just heard via the Vulcan Mind Meld Chip in my brain that they opened the first part of The Second Avenue Subway from 125th Street to 115th Street.
Paul: What?!?!?
Nurse: The Second Avenue Subway, The Second Avenue Subway, I SAID THEY OPENED THE SECOND AVENUE SUBWAY!!!!
Paul: The Second Avenue el, you say! Did they finally get those smoky steam engines off it!!!
Nurse: NOT THE EL!!!! THE SUBWAY!!!!
Paul: What?!?!?
**********************
And you guys wonder why I don't get excited with all the latest Second Avenue Subway news.
wayne
Wasn't too impressed with the pregame show on the Mall. Just a big Pepsi commercial. Although, Britney was probably in her glory, I bet being that she could be near all the other airheads that work at the Capitol. Great to see our Nation's Capital turned into a big billboard. : (
wayne
Adam
THIS Sunday or NEXT "Open House" Sunday?
Specifics help masses.
This is definitely one year where I wish school started earlier.
Nice.
Betcha that line WON'T get us in the door, Jack...
Yep. I hope to be there. It is the first of a series of "Grand Openings," with TM members and the public following later.
--Mark
You must have an invite to get in.
Chapter 11 Choo Choo (Lyrics)
www.railfanwindow.com
AHM HO scale trains, American Railroads, #4902 locomotive. 1920 Baggage P.O. Car and 1920 Diner Car. All made in Italy, near mint in box. Box end flap on locomotive is missing.
Athearn Milwaukee Road end powered locomotive. Side railings are separate in the box. HO scale, excellent condition.
So, did she do OK, or did she get taken?
Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
=Rednoise
(NewQirQ)
The GG1 could be run near your elevated/subway line, i.e. Sunnyside yard would be a prototype where the #7 line runs right over it and the LIRR runs beside it, plus New York & Atl run thru it with freight.
Frank Hicks
A MNRR Station Sign
found in a NYC Antiques Store
finds it's way back home...
Story in Journal News
Wouldn't have made a difference.
Peace,
ANDEE
But with cameras you have a better chance of IDng suspects faster. Anything you can do to get the scum off the street faster will prevent someone else from getting hurt.
Glad she's OK. This moron will find out he messed with the wrong victim.
I remember that fateful Labor Day weekend (probably Friday or Saturday night, think it was Saturday.). I was riding the E train from Queens and got off that that same 7th Ave stop. The whole evening, I felt sick, a huge migraine was throbbing on my head. I felt like I was going to pass out. But I was SHOCKED at the gang of 50 kids getting off the same train I was on. They all went upstairs, I stayed on the same platform (the downtown platform for both D and E trains), and the station was quiet, a bit too quiet. The D train that would take me home pulled in and I wasted no time getting on it and was safely home. But it was sad that I read in the newspaper the next day, that I MISSED THE KILLING BY JUST 5 MINUTES (I boarded the train at 9:40 PM). Just ironic. (The punks went to Roseland to hide there, but there were busted as the NYPD stopped the party to find them, escorting everyone out one by one at the landmark ballroom and club.)
My heartfelt prayers are out to the Watkins family and hope the 7 scum will never ever see the light of day outside of their prisons.
We can never be complacent.
I think some of the funniest series of posts I did were a bunch of practice train operator's exam questions.
Practice Train Operator's Question #2
Practice Train Operator's Question #3
Practice Train Operator's Question #5
This next post is a favorite of mine.
Delays Expected Monday When Metal Detectors Will Be Activated
Who can forget this next post, no matter how hard they try?
i am reluctantly using the killfile for the first time
Well that's enough self indulgence for a while. I just want to thank myself for the many hours of enjoyment that I have provided myself here on Subtalk in the last four years.
Oh well, they have a chance to redeem themselves with the September episode this saturday. I hope the report on the Museum's reopening is interesting.
While they were on a D train they were held to let an A go by. A PA announcement was first made in English then again in Spanish.
What is the TA's policy on announcements on the train or the platform? Are they to be English only or if the crew is bilingual can they make the announcements in Spanish?
--jonathan
I'm sure you know this and just made a typo, but that's not the T/O's job. Announcements are the C/R's job.
English is the primary language in NYC. A failure to speak and understand English dooms one to poverty for one's whole life. Any minor gestures by governmental authorities to make information available in other languages doesn't change this basic fact, which is governed by the employment market.
Are you saying that even the minor actions the goverment takes to provide some information in other languages should be declared illegal?
Maybe not. It might be possible to work in industry or construction without knowing English. Same for some retail and service jobs within ethnic communities - there are store owners in Chinatown, among other places, who know little or no English. Okay, you're not going to get wealthy, but you might be able to manage a middle-class living.
> NOT that English-only speakers are disqualified from bieng hired for jobs they are qualified for
Or making more for the same job as an English speaker solely based on the fact that they speak another language. One City agency used to do this, however I don't know if it still does.
Seeing some of the attitudes that some groups have, it seems to me the reason some people don't learn the english language is arrogance.
That is not true. The equipment sucks in many cases. You can't say every C/R on the D line doesn't know how to use the PA, Concourse R68s are notorious for having poor PA systems.
this seems to answer puzzling questions such as "how much cost to ride from howard beach/jamaica to JFK?" and "when will it be done?"
CG
As long as you have checked your bag in following the airline's rules, it's their responsibility to get that done. Time will tell if they can do it efficiently enough. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
If it were up to me, I'd think about hooking up an AirTrain car to the consist for just luggage (PA/airline personnel handle the luggage. You check in at Jamaica). When you get off at your terminal, the bag comes off too in their custody.
I had thought about that also (well -- not specifically that, I had thought about separate FrieghtAirTrains, but similar concept). I think the problem with either option is that the unloading and loading of bags at the terminals would lengthen station dwell time to the point where the plan of having trains every 2 minutes on the central loop would be disrupted.
"Time will tell if they can do it efficiently enough."
Well, time and experience. While I plan to make extensive use of the Jamaica connection, I'll probably just check my bags at the airport. I have no interest in having my luggage be a guinea pig.
Most airlines now require you to check your bags 30 minute before the flight in order for them to be assured of getting on the plane (although at JFK some require 45). I expect that the airlines will have to implement a longer window to allow for baggage checked at Jamaica.
CG
"The vehicle's interior has been designed with comfortable seating, wide doors on each side to facilitate easy ingress/egress for passengers with luggage, and luggage racks and ample open floor space for luggage carts."
I hope the PA has gotten past the hysteria about overstated risks to checked bags. It souds like they may have.
As long as every bag is matched up to a passenger with photo ID and the bag is examined properly (hand-check, sniffer dog, machine etc.) then there's no danger.
Linked for the lazy: http://www.ny1.com/ny/NY1ToGo/Story/index.html?topic=2&subctopic=5&contentintid=32891 - not too shabby for a one handed link while eating a doughnut, if I may say so myself
Well what if everyone in the car suddenly shifted in the same manner as the weights while the AirTrain was traveling at a similar rate of speed at a similar location? The scenario is entirely possible. You just need something outside worth looking out the window at, and an operator manually controlling the AirTrain at too high of a speed.
It's mindboggling that they can't even run one of these trains on a test run without signals without getting into an accident when the TTC were running a full schedule on the Scarborough RT back in 1984 on visual, without signals either, carrying passengers without incident before the Seltrac system became operational. The Airtrain staff need to be instructed on how to operate a train safely manually.
Put another way, if the Airtrain was operating with the ATO, I'd have no problem riding it. If they had to drop it to manual, I'd be thinking about either a) kicking their guy off the controls and driving it myself, or, b) bailing and doing the rest of the trip the old fashioned way with my own two feet.
-Robert King
So if I take this train, which was starting to sound good, instead of that whatchamacallit 10 dollar motorcoach, I had to be searched more than 2 times??
Yeah, I've done that walk. At least, from a little south of the Belt up to Jamaica Station. Interesting jaunt. The streets surrounding the vicinity of the Van Wyck are surprisingly suburban in appearance, anyway. More so than the similar areas around Cross Bay Blvd. to the west. But the occasional packs of dogs I saw as I walked north did remind me that I was officially in Southeast Queens territory.
This lower density of the Van Wyck corridor is one of the reasons it would have "made better sense" to re-up the old LIRR line to get to the airport. At least there are established neighborhoods along the line. The AirTrain is basically a one trick pony.
Sorry, but what you think "made more sense" was not possible to do.
Yeah, I know, the PA funding it, etc. I gotta accept...but I don't forget.
Actually, it's federal law, not the PA's rules, that prohibits an intermediate station..
Which is not entirely a bad thing. After all, airline passengers are paying for AirTrain through taxes levied on their tickets, and very few if any of them would benefit from an intermediate stop.
False statement, and you have no credible data to support it. We've been through this a few times. At best it could run from about 10AM-3PM, and again after the evening rush and before the morning rush, overnight. I'm being generous, and I give it 14 hours. The MTA gives it even less.
And we haven't even rehashed all the difficulties with the ROW. Beyond the Super NIMBY factor, some residents would actually have something legitimate to gripe about.
Now, if you arrange for trains to stop short and dump passengers off at Jamaica (no one-seat Manhattan service) then you can operate this all 24 hours.
But once ESA opens, then the only thing stopping the TA from doing it (other than money, of course - what's another $1 billion between friends, eh?) is the ROW. It really does run too close to people's home and property (we're not even considering encroachment, which is a legal issue) so you'd have to elevate the tracks, or sink them into a culvert, or maybe stack them one on top of the other.
My choice? I'd develop it but put the train underground and remove the tracks and debris from above ground. It's an eyesore, to say the least. I do like the idea of improving commuter rail service through that corridor.
Your excuse is just that: an excuse. If there had been interest in running direct service between JFK and Penn Station via LIRR, it could have been done most of the day on weekdays and all day on weekends. Airport peak hours don't coincide with commuter peak hours. The PA wasn't interested, so it wasn't done.
You may recall that I'm not a big fan of direct LIRR service, at least not until after a basic subway connection is completed, but I'm not going to make up excuses to support my view. There shouldn't be an LIRR connection for the time being, but lack of room at Penn Station isn't the reason why.
(Notice, incidentally, that a subway connection would give direct service between JFK and Penn Station, and lots of other points, 24/7.)
Penn Station is not the issue. The Penn tubes under the East River are the issue. They are at capacity at least 10 out of 24 hours, and more if the MTA's more conservative argument is better supported than mine.
"Your excuse is just that: an excuse. If there had been interest in running direct service between JFK and Penn Station via LIRR, it could have been done most of the day on weekdays and all day on weekends. Airport peak hours don't coincide with commuter peak hours. The PA wasn't interested, so it wasn't done"
You are beingt dishonest here in that you know that there is no capacity to run trains to the airport from Manhattan. So unless you can show specific credible evidence about this, I will assume you are just posting nonsense for its own sake. The PA had nothing to do with this - in fact the PA built AirTrain because it knew the MTA could not provide airport service for many years.
This is where your railfanning cannot give you answers, Dave. Looking through a railfan window will not help you learn the financial and political relationship between the MTA and the PA.
Stick to railfanning and subway routing and R32s. You're not much good at the other stuff.
The lack of capacity on a section of line for even tten hours per weekday is no reason to make it physically impossible for airport trains to run on that section during the rest of the day or on weekends.
AirTrain is a railfan's dream. New cars, new tracks, ATO, railfan windows, the works. I object to AirTrain as implemented because there are cheaper alternatives that would have served passengers better, like direct subway service or improved bus operations (with cross-platform transfers to the subway). Are you sure you're not the railfan? Your support of AirTrain seems to be dominated by ad hominems and by assumptions that AirTrain must be better than buses because, well, just because.
I never looked at it that way before, you're quite right.
There are no ad hominems there. One of the issues of this discussion is that you present "facts" with no support, and post things you know to be false. Show evidence of scholarship and I'll acknowledge it.
I find much of your writing on subway routes, cars etc. to be great stuff and I've said so.
You live very close (compared to me, anyway) to the world's most awesome library. A God library if there ever was one, the NY Public Library. Visit and read (and not just railfan-related stuff).
"The lack of capacity on a section of line for even tten hours per weekday is no reason to make it physically impossible for airport trains to run on that section during the rest of the day or on weekends."
OK. Now, you're making more sense. I don't agree with you, but your statement is not unreasonable.
The reason I would not do as you suggest in this statement is that, while you mayget airport workers using the service, you will miss the heaviest air traveler hours, and so I would conclude that it isn't cost effective, for the airport.
If we are talking about using the line to serve Queens as a commuter line (besides the airport), not being able to run any trains at the 10 busiest hours of the day is a major problem. A compromise might be that the train runs to Jamaica only, then extends to Manhattan in the off-hours, carrying, paradoxically, fewer people.
And you want to spend $1 billion + to make that happen? And fight the uber-NIMBYs?
It is now 2003. OK, if we start now, the Rockaway line would be ready simultaneously with ESA. Run 1/3 your airport trains from Grand Central, 1/3 from Penn and 1/3 from Brooklyn.
Now convince MTA to do it. If there ever was a time, it is now.
Go ahead, write MTA and your elected officials, and give it a shot. I agree that starting planning/engineering now is feasible.
No, dismissing my arguments by calling me a railfan is ad hominem. What facts do I post (as facts, relevant to my arguments) that are false?
You lost the Whitehall argument because you made faulty assumptions about the configuration of the station (although I'm sure you'll claim that you didn't lose the argument after all). This came shortly after you repeatedly insisted that you knew what stub tracks even though at least three of us had been trying to correct you.
You live very close (compared to me, anyway) to the world's most awesome library. A God library if there ever was one, the NY Public Library. Visit and read (and not just railfan-related stuff).
I have, and I will continue to do so.
OK. Now, you're making more sense. I don't agree with you, but your statement is not unreasonable.
Thank you. Did I say anything different the last time?
The reason I would not do as you suggest in this statement is that, while you mayget airport workers using the service, you will miss the heaviest air traveler hours, and so I would conclude that it isn't cost effective, for the airport.
But is that really true? Flyers and commuters don't follow the same schedule. I wouldn't be surprised if middays and evenings have heavier air traffic than the rush hours. Weekends, of course, are quite busy.
If we are talking about using the line to serve Queens as a commuter line (besides the airport), not being able to run any trains at the 10 busiest hours of the day is a major problem. A compromise might be that the train runs to Jamaica only, then extends to Manhattan in the off-hours, carrying, paradoxically, fewer people.
I'm not addressing the possibility of also making local Queens stops.
But keep in mind that the LIRR has, in the past, induced some Manhattan-bound commuters to Flatbush by charging more for service to Penn, and that practice could be reinstated. Alternatively, or in addition, the LIRR could promote the LIC by tossing in discounted ferry tickets. That would clear up a bit of space in Penn Station and the tunnels leading to it, which could be filled by a few trains from JFK. I don't know if it would be worth implementing such an option, but it could certainly be considered.
And you want to spend $1 billion + to make that happen?
No, I don't. I'm not in favor of direct LIRR service between JFK and Manhattan except as a possible later premium-fare addition to the system (much as the premium-fare Heathrow Express came a few decades after the basic Piccadilly line began serving Heathrow, at standard Underground fares).
That doesn't mean I'm going to make up specious arguments to support my case -- because specious arguments only support the opposition.
And fight the uber-NIMBYs?
What NIMBYs? Just take the existing AirTrain line and curve it west instead of east. (I don't care if the proposed line uses new or old trackage -- it should use whatever provides the best service at the lowest cost. If NIMBYs are a major problem on one routing, then the other routing probably makes more sense.)
You're right, I didn't lose the Whitehall argument. However, it iscertainly true that what I ask for may be too expensive in MTA's judgment. But I said so back then (chec the posts), so your complaint makes no sense.
"But keep in mind that the LIRR has, in the past, induced some Manhattan-bound commuters to Flatbush by charging more for service to Penn, and that practice could be reinstated. Alternatively, or in addition, the LIRR could promote the LIC by tossing in discounted ferry tickets. That would clear up a bit of space in Penn Station and the tunnels leading to it, which could be filled by a few trains from JFK. I don't know if it would be worth implementing such an option, but it could certainly be considered."
I like that. It's likely to produce some desirable results. How effective? I'll take your word for it.
"What NIMBYs? Just take the existing AirTrain line and curve it west instead of east. (I don't care if the proposed line uses new or old trackage -- it should use whatever provides the best service at the lowest cost. If NIMBYs are a major problem on one routing, then the other routing probably makes more sense.)"
Building the LIRR line down the Van Wyck to an airport circulator shuttle train (eg AirTrain) would have been a very cool idea. But, again, you're looking at long, long lead times, and an MTA not interested in building it, and no $$$ in the Capital Plan for it. The PA had the money, subject to PFT legal restrictions on how it's used, and had the mandate to build AirTrain, and as you've pointed out, very little NIMBY. AirTrain is ready now (well, November). The alternative was no service at all until 2010 at minimum, regardless of ROW picked (due to dependence on East Side Access, which won't be ready until then).
I estimate that AirTrain moved airport rail service up by 7-10 years at least, and probably more like 15-20. (100 years if you ask Peter Rosa :0) )
I don't know if that is really true . I know they are at capacity at rush hours, when the most trains run . How can they be at capacity non rush hours when less trains run ?
The presence of that highway has not done much good to the stretch of neighborhoods between, say, Atlantic Avenue and the Belt Parkway. AirTrain might end up being a real bone of contention within the areas it passes by. One thing about having a rail transit station in a community; it can make a place seem like a destination, someplace to actually want to go to. As it is, people will see the trains going by non-stop and they might start to wonder why they can't get on. I wouldn't fault them for that attitude either. I'd be pissed if I lived there.
A nice idea. I think, though that MTA would have to pay for it (to make sure federal law about the use of certain pots of money are not violated). Worth considering. I don't know if the PA's lawyers would agree that they could defend it if a NIMBY filed suit about it.
"Maybe at where it crossed Rockaway Boulevard. Or a little further north on the line. It sounds like you might have thought I was referring to the aborted LIRR branch reopening. "
I stand corrected!
I posted the URL for the PA's report on the incident a few weeks ago, I'll try to find it again.
CG
Then what killed him?
Hindsight is 20/20. Plus, consider that there's no one posting on this board, you and I included, with enough qualifications, domain knowledge, expertise etc. to make a statement like that.
It's still not evident to me that the shifting weights were the likely cause of the accident (as opposed to the likely cause of the operator's death once something caused the derailment).
http://www.panynj.gov/pr/airtrain_rep.pdf
Not really.
$5 in Metrocard dollars (i.e., actually $4.17) or in real dollars.
What about the monthly? Airport employees would probably like to know.
You know this for a fact?
If so, do you mean that (a) I will not be allowed to use a Metrocard on Airtrain or (b) I will be allowed to use a Metrocard, but it will deduct a supposed "$6.00" from my Metrocard balance, which is 5 real dollars?