John Snow, CEO of CSX, Treasury Secretary. No surprise THERE either.
The "low ball" game has been played by MANY a contractor to "clinch the deal" ... in EVERY case, the vendor has rued the decision to do that. The STATE always wins. And for subway cars, State 7, vendors 0.
If Alstom goes bankrupt, both Alstom and the state lose.
And if all else fails, then Honest Al will probably get AM General (The makers of Hummers, OK to look at, awful to ride) to build a plant in Patchogue and crank out railcars until they go broke like everybody else. And like always, the suckers will line up since Wall Street LOVES big sales quarters, as long as the profit downsides are in ANOTHER quarter. :)
Budd never went under.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
He's a robot?
Perhaps that's when the Concourse peaked as well. Must have been a cool place to be in the heyday, with new art-deco apartment buildings and a new express subway line taking you down to Midtown or up to the parks in no time.
Peace,
ANDEE
Perhaps the partners foresaw the coming of the automobile and the resulting decline in ridership. These days, rather than 15 trains per hour on the local and express, you very briefly get 15 trains per hour on both of them put together.
Auto ownership is probably not the reason for lower ridership on the Concourse Line today vs. the 1940's. It's not the sort of area where most people have cars. I'd say it's because fewer people who live in the area are working, hence less commuting.
This implies that ridership could rise once again, as on the L line, if more workers move the area.
September 4 , 2002
New housing opens in Highbridge By Steven Gnagni - Managing Editor
Welcome to the Highbridge housing boom. In mid-August, tenants began to move into a new building at 900 Ogden Avenue here in Highbridge. Meanwhile, construction is moving along on several other new buildings in Highbridge, and even more buildings are in the works. The new building, located at the bottom of the hill on Ogden Avenue, is nine stories tall and has 120 units - a mix of studios and one and two bedrooms. Eighteen of those apartments are wheelchair accessible, and are set aside for tenants with special needs. The apartments all have wood floors. They are equipped with smoke detectors, a sprinkler system, and cable hookups. There is also a community room, a laundry room, and two elevators. Tenants are moving into the building in phases, with more tenants moving in throughout September. The apartments were only available to residents earning up to 60 percent of the area median income. "[This new complex] represents quality affordable housing - something that's greatly needed in the Bronx," said Marc Altheim, one of the principals of Atlantic Development Group, the developers of the building. Atlantic Development Group worked with the New York City Housing Development Corporation to arrange the financing. The developers used tax-exempt bonds, tax incentives from the city's Housing and Preservation Department (HPD) and federal low-income tax credits. Atlantic Development Group is also working on two other buildings in the area. One, located on Merriam Avenue between 168th and 169th streets, will have 95 units and is slated to open sometime this winter. The other, which is now in the planning stages, is located at 1314 Nelson Avenue, between 169th and 170th streets. That building will be seven stories tall and will have 115 units, and will use similar funding as 900 Ogden Avenue. Atlantic, however, is not the only company developing in the neighborhood. Summit Development Partners plans to break ground in December or January on a building at Summit Avenue and 165th Street, according to Justin Stern, a partner with Summit. "We're currently working on the design, and it will be approximately 40 units," Mr. Stern said. "We're still working on the financing, but they will be affordable. We think it's a great idea - a good population base, and we feel it would be a successful development." Mr. Stern also mentioned Summit might be interested in expanding the project should any neighboring property become available. The building is slated to be a six-story building, and Mr. Stern said he hopes to have the building ready for occupancy in early 2004. The other big developer in Highbridge these days is the Highbridge Unity Center, also known as H.U.C. According to CEO Jorge Batista, H.U.C. is planning a number of properties: a building at 172nd Street and Shakespeare Avenue with 72 one bedrooms available to seniors over 62, which should be finished in February; a building at 1275 Nelson Avenue, which will have 82 units for seniors over 55 and should also be finished in February; eight townhouses at Ogden Avenue and 169th street, which will be completed in January or February; and a number of other townhouses on Shakespeare Avenue and Jessup Place. Construction on these last townhouses will begin next spring. H.U.C. is accepting applications for the apartments at 1275 Nelson Avenue through October 1, and applications for apartments at Shakespeare and 172nd will likely be accepted in December. Finally, the city's Housing and Preservation Department (H.P.D.) is rehabilitating a number of buildings. According to a spokeswoman at H.P.D., the agency has rehabilitated over 600 units in Southern Highbridge over the last seven years. H.P.D. renovated seven city-owned buildings and then sold them to local nonprofits - H.U.C. and Belmont Arthur L.D.C. - through the Neighborhood Opportunities Work program.
All Contents Copyright 2002 Highbridge Horizon and Highbridge Community Life Center
Not impressed. The ability of an area to attract subsidized housing is constrained by the City's willingness to not build mass transit improvements and not fund its schools. When affluent enough people are moving in to attract unsubisized housing, and decent enough people are moving in to make it feasible to rehabilitate housing without subsidies, then the West Bronx will come back.
So it's time once again to throw up the same old tired quote I throw out here every so often ...
Alexander Tyler, (in his 1770 book, 'Cycle of Democracy' )
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a lousy fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years.
These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage."
... or as Homer Simpson would say, "Oooooo ... tax cut." (drools)
This sort of reminds me of the debates Ron from Bayside and I have had concerning downtown Jamaica. He cites the recent increase in government and/or subsidized commercial construction as signs of the area's comeback. I maintain that it's premature to talk of any comeback unless and until there is unsubsidized private development.
Right. It isn't that subsidized development isn't valuable. It's just that there is a limited amount of it that the government can afford, limited in part by the amount of unsubusidized development available to tax. Unsubsidized development is not limited by the budget, and (if successful) tends to attract other unsubsidized development.
Note that any new development (or increase in property value due to rehabilitation) in New York City outside of Manhattan south of 96th Street is exempt from property taxes for years and years and years. This is in contrast with "welcome stranger" assessment policies in most suburban jurisdictions.
So the idea that the outer boroughs cannot attract development because of taxes is wrong. The concentration of wealth in Manhattan pays the taxes. Without it, we'd be Buffalo.
You say D'Amato and I say Po'tato ... you say it's murky, and I say Paturkey, D'Amato, Paturkey, Bruno, Gullota, let's call the whole thing off?
I don't know about that. I'd say there's too damn many cars, try finding a parking space after 8PM, damn near impossible.
Peace,
ANDEE
I forgot about that, but yes it is widely known that the middle class who didn't want a house of their own in Westchester nonetheless decamped when COOP City was built. And for what? A bus to the train and a long commute?
Objectively the Concourse has better housing, except that if you live there now many of your neighbors will be poor and some troubled. I keep hoping that (since the Bronx is the Latino borough) the Concourse will become the "in" place to live if you are Latino. Maybe if J. Lo moves there.
Ha!
Think about this. Here is an area that was once home to the uppercrust, and still has many nice buildings. Planners can make plans, public officials can make infrastructure investments, you can have promotional campaigns, etc., and nothing happens.
But, if someone with a good body and a good voice moves in, and convinces some well known friend to do the same, BOOM -- it's like DiNiro in TRIBECA.
It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world.
At least J. Lo titled one of her albums after a subway train (On the 6).
No. It's much much better in this case. :)
"At least J. Lo titled one of her albums after a subway train (On the 6)."
My favorite musical subway reference remains that of Bob Dylan:
In the empty lot where the ladies play blindman's bluff with the keychain
And the all-night girls they whisper of escapades out on the D train
We can hear the night watchman click his flashlight...
Which of Dylan's songs is that?
http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/visions.html
I'm sure some people here like her for THAT music video [besides her looks of course] ;-).
What's interesting is that Co-op City has remained a reasonably desirable place in which to live despite not getting the promised subway service. I suppose there's a lesson there, one that's not necessarily a good one for advocates of expanded subway service.
Hmmm. Ya know, you can never tell about demographic trends in this town. What's known today as the "xxx boro" could easily take on other characteristics as the years roll by. Look at Brooklyn. Whole lots of eastern Europeans living and moving in. They are expanding their "turf" fairly quickly. Never know...the Bronx as the next "..."in" place to live if you are Slavic."!
Hey, as long as they take the subway it's all good.
I had thought that much of the Bronx was in decline well before Co-op City opened. While the Concourse still might have been a relatively decent area in the 1960's, the trends were all downward.
Its hard to imagine that the Concourse line once had one line that had 15tph and now as you said its 15tph on both the B and D. If the line were built with 4 tracks it would be more busier but you have the Bx1/2 overground via Grand Concourse which does take some of the potential crowding the Concourse line could have and I bet that if not for the 1/2, it would have more hours of peak express service.
That is a heavily used bus route, given that the subway runs right under it most of the way. Who is using it rather than the subway?
Peace,
ANDEE
the Bx2 does NOT run on the Concourse the whole time, plus the Bx1 is on the Concourse BEFORE the B/D show up at 167 St
Those B of T hearings must have been pips (does anyone have a picture of John Delaney smiling? Every picture that I've ever seen of him shows the face of someone who looks like he died about an hour ago, and it seems as if that carried inot his dealings with the public, elected officials, and community groups). Clearly, they took no prisoners. At the same time, though, what would have happened if the "Second System" plan was implemented and the Burke Avenue extension of the Concourse line was built? Would that line or the 8th Avenue line have the train or track capacity to handle everything?
Maybe if they had gotten their way the 6th Avenue subway would have been built on 2nd Avenue, and we wouldn't be in this crush on the East Side today. The 2nd and 3rd Avenue Els would have come down sooner, and perhaps the PATH would have extended northward as part of a plan to eliminate the 6th Avenue el.
The big disadvantage of the IND is that the trunk lines are to the west, but the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn are to the east. So Bronx and Brooklyn residents have to go west and then back east to get to most of Midtown, and Queens residents have to go west and THEN south to get to Downtown.
Madison was a much ritzier street than Second Avenue, and it is between two streets that are even ritzier. No wonder the plan failed. Perhaps if they had proposed going down Second and getting rid of an El, rather than tearing up the street in from of mansions and luxury apartments and a block away from Fifth and Park, it would have happened.
If you have the chance to get to a library that has the Bronx Home-News, check out some of the articles from December 1927 to February 1928 on this issue (to say nothing of the articles that they ran in late 1929 through Spring 1930 on the "Second System". They acted like the world was coming to the end because the B of T had proposed to build additional elevated lines in the Bronx). There were some very creative arguments being made back and forth on this issue.
While designers get most of the credit for a project, they are pretty low on the totem pole in the world of government. I know, I worked in a Design Office of the GA DOT, and was involved in two road projects.
In New York bureaucrats make that kind of decision, if they are allowed. The politicans aren't interested in public policy; in fact they don't even understand it. They are interested in getting paid.
You are lucky indeed, in New York, to have someone in charge who has an idea what to do and tells you to do it. More likely you end up hoping and praying for the opportunity to do something, anything at all other than come up with justifications for the unjustifiable and do "studies.'
Might have been different back in the day.
Not to mention the fact it was ALL R-1's at the time!!!
:)
BTW, it still is a cool place to be.
Peace,
ANDEE
I just did some multiplication of the average weekday, Saturday and Sunday ridership on this line in 2002. It was only 20,134,806, just 36.7 percent of the peak ridership.
Annual ridership for subway as a whole, in contrast, was 1.41 billion, or two-thirds of the WWII peak.
This speaks volumes about the West Bronx. And remember, the Concourse line does not go through the South Bronx ghetto as originally constituted. The dense apartment buildings on the two ridges -- the one occupied by the Concourse itself and the one west of it along University Avenue -- were built for the middle class.
I wonder who close all the lines are to their peak ridership?
Peace,
ANDEE
The E train that went into the relay at 71st CTL, wrong line up on the V and cutout door on the F that was OPEN are just as serious or worse and everyone got away scot free.
Peace,
ANDEE
They felt I made a rookie screwup but the other guy made an understandable error.
Besides, it'll just make fireworks - the insulation on those ain't thick enough, nor are your shoes. Heh.
One car moves are a no-go since 1991 or 1992.
One other question, the T/O on the D, why didn't he/she read the signal correctly, if the offender did, they would not see the "D" indicator in the second pair of signals located after the first one (the PM rush D express track diverts on first signal, the regular D trains divert on second signal). You will ALWAYS see that "D" on the lower yellow signal for all D trains needing to divert at switch leading to 145th st/LL.
All of the above in addition to the T/D on duty at 59MT.
The TW/O is at fault for giving the wrong lineup, regardless of what the T/O punched.
The T/D goes down just because he was there.
The TA takes down everyone who thy can hold accountable. The exact reason for taking down the T/D I don't know, but at GC a few weeks ago a train ent BIE over a home signal and they took the T/D out of service as well as the TW/O, T/O and amazingly, the C/R.
Or maybe that's the trick right there. Just like the TW/O he's supposed to know what's there.
The TW/O sees a parade of lights (they used to be red bars on the big board, I assume they're still the same 30+ years later) ... the lights do NOT tell them what train it is, only that a train is THERE. Thus, the TW/O has to KNOW what train it is and follow it through their territory. In the OLD days, there were numerous towers along the way so at worst, maybe they had to keep track of 8 trains max in their "section" ... I wonder how many it is THESE days with all those remote towers unoccupied?
Raw deal all around for sure ... but you're SUPPOSED to know your lineups when you're in the broom closet. That's one thing they never nailed ME for. :(
A parade is right. And to respond to how many we keep track of today, I can't give you an exact area, but you can guess from the following:
Grand Central controls from Brooklyn Bridge to 125th Street.
Times Sq. Mainline controls from Chambers Street to 96th Street.
Mosholu yard controls from Burnside to Woodlawn but sees down to Mott
Westchester Master controls from 138/3 to Pelham Bay Park.
Unionport (will) control from Jackson Avenue to 241 St. Currently its E 180 to 241 St.
You mean 205th St Tower....
-Stef
-Stef
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
And as for the "D", that means a two shot grade timer on the Diverging route, since it's a "downhill" to 145 ...
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
But I'm as perplexed as you are as to why the conductor went downtown, but it really happened. Because the MTA has NO sense of humor, I won't say any more. I'm just glad that I got out of that nuthouse back in the 1970's when EVERYONE was MUCH more concerned about the trains not bursting into flames or falling off the el. We pretty much all knew we were in the same leaky boat and tended to watch out for one another rather than bang each other in. And somehow the railroad worked somewhat without these modern day gestapo.
I guess there's a "discipline quota," ain't no other POSSIBLE explanation. :(
Jon is more than likely right, its probably something he didn't do after the fact. That's the only time the conductor can do anything. The rules state that the C/R must pull the cord at the station following the incorrect route.
Cardinals Ximinez, Fang, and Biggles burst in.
Cardinal Ximinez: Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise! Surprise and fear, fear and
surprise. And fear... and surprise. Did I mention fear...and, oh, of course, silly me, surprise.
Cardinal Biggles: Cardinal!
Cardinal Ximinez: What is it, Cardinal?
Biggles whispers something in Ximinez's ear. A look of dawning realization on Ximinez's face.
Cardinal Ximinez: Normally, we would torture you until you all confessed. But, given the circumstances, I think we'll just buy a
parrot. How about that one over there?
Owner: Oh yes, the Norwegian blue -- beautiful plumage.
Cardinal Ximinez: Is that parrot...dead?
Owner: Oh no, not at all, it's just resting.
Cardinal Ximinez: Damn! Are you sure?
Owner: Oh, yes, quite certain.
Cardinal Ximinez: Let me see that parrot. (Inspects parrot) Seems dead to me. Cardinals, have a look.
Cardinal Fang: It's dead.
Cardinal Biggles: This parrot is no more.
Owner: Oh, no, no, no. It just, err, pining for the fjords.
Cardinal Ximinez: It's not pining, it's passed on.
Cardinal Fang. It has ceased to be.
Cardinal Biggles: Shuffled off its mortal coil.
Cardinal Ximinez: We'll take it!
Owner: I'm telling you, it's not... What was that?
Cardinal Ximinez: I said we'll take it.
Owner: Oh you won't regret it sir. Would you like it cooked here, or to go?
Cardinal Ximinez: We'll just take it as is, please.
Owner: That'll be twenty guineas.
Cardinal Ximinez: Here you go. (Hands the owner money and grabs that parrot) Hahahaha!
Cardinal Fang: Hahahaha!
Cardinal Biggles: Hoohoohoohoo!
Cardinal Fang: No, cardinal, hahahahaha!
Cardinal Biggles: Hoohoho...haa...hahahahaha!
Fang: Very good, Cardinal!
The cardinals run out, laughing diabolically.
Owner: They forgot to get a license...
So, before you unpack that Synclavier and start making noises like a strangled cat, Local 802 of Associated Musicians wants to have a gander at that card. You DO have a card, right? Heh.
I was away on R&R for the past month, hence the lack of postings. Now I'm trying to get caught up. Heard a few cows moo while I was away.:)
Good to see youse around!
Community whiz, and you're invited! Woohoo! Heh.
These days, I thought the nearest photographer was hauled off to jail.
Signals:
A line takes GREEN OVER GREEN on all homeball timers
D Bronx PM Express takes GREEN OVER YELLOW or first homeball by north end of 135th st (so that it can divert left for Track M).
D Bronx Local takes GREEN OVER GREEN for first signal, then GREEN OVER YELLOW for the second signal (so it can divert on second switch to the right track).
No excuses for not seeing the second signal correctly.
If that's the case then the T/O could have cancelled the punch BEFORE the train left 59 St/CC or radio the master tower.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
OK, so then it went to 168th.
Peace,
ANDEE
I'll hate myself, but...
Why is it that whenever this happens, everyone assumes the T/O punched incorrectly? Contrary to popular belief you can punch correctly and still be issued a wrong line-up. When I was working on the B, if I could have gotten a dollar every time I got a wrong line-up after punching correctly, I'd have lots of dollars.
Why hate yourself, its true.
It could be accidental, or the TW/O not knowing what they're doing.
On more than one occaision I've hit the wrong exit by accident (damn buttons too close together), but fortunately was able to catch my error before the signal cleared for the train.
Another instance (I will not mention the location to protect the stupid) is where a T/O punched, but the TW/O had not recorded the time of the previous train. So the TW/O punches for the train they thought they were getting rather than what had punched... and you can guess how that turned out.
Even if they did punch corrctly, once they accept the wrong lineup they're guilty.
I'm not arguing with you that T/Os should know their routes, because they should. But supervision should make sure of this.
on the N/B D line, the Points of No Return are as follows:
42nd st/6th ave
47th st/50th sts/Rock Center
135th st.
59th st/CC is not considered a Point of No Return because either track can be used.
I'm working at Nostrand Junction. I sent a Northbound #5 train on the local track. No big deal, because Nevins St tower can cross that train back over to the express tracks, right? So this isn't a point of no return, in theory.
Now that trains gets to Atlantic Ave. Nevins spots it and attempts to cross it over, but oh crap! The switch won't lock up in reverse. Now that #5 train has no way to return to its normal route.
Or even worse, that train dies while crossing over. No now Lex or 7th Ave service.
Now I have to explain how that #5 was on Track 4 anyway.
Maybe these 2 examples are a bit extreme, but just to reinforce my theory that any point should be considered the point of no return.
Kool-D mentioned the home signals marked as points of no return. My point was that all home signals should be treated as points of no return by both the train operator and the tower operator unless permission has been given to take that signal.
People these days either don't know their job or are afraid to exercise authority for fear of writing reports.
Unfortunately that's the way it is. All it takes is for the wrong person to be inconvenienced (or just someone who likes to complain) and everyone goes downtown. Happened at Conetinental, a T/D was warned by a Supt because someone that knew him complained about trains getting runs 2 days in a row.
Especially on CPW with that complex i'locking.
Yes, he should pay the price of a small 'oops'. Depending on who showed up to deal with it, this guy is looking at up to 6 WEEKS of UNPAID vacation for this. My original point was that folks here make a bad situation worse by ASSUMING the existence of a wrong punch.
That is what you also get from dick-brained show-off operating for the benefit of the foamers. He/she might have challenged the timer and won but not the route.
If you know the history of the subways you know what your lineups are.
Yes, it created a long gap in Concourse service due to a missed interval -- but missed intervals are deliberately created all the time at local stations at the slightest provocation.
Yes, some passengers may have been dragged to the wrong place -- but, assuming the C/R was remotely awake, he would have noticed that the train was on the upper level at 145th and would have told his passengers to get off and wait for the next D downstairs, so only the inattentive ended up at 168th.
Far worse is accepting a wrong lineup that doesn't permit such easy recovery on the part of the passenger, or changing routes or bypassing stations without crystal clear announcements.
Isn't that overkill? Shouldn't the cord be reserved for emergencies? And why can't passengers who were waiting for the A or were going to transfer to the A stay on until 168?
True, but it's an indication that the T/O *may* be impaired, and it requires the Conductor to investigate, since the Conductor is "in charge" of the train (and this rule has been enforced since 14th Street).
You don't need a full blown CBTC system to get Automatic Train Identification (ATI). They used ATI on the Flushing Line 40 years ago. It can be implemented today with off the shelf commodity electronics that does not interface with existing equipment. All it takes is 802.11 a/b/g adapters, access points and an email server.
OTOH, there are more options, if the ATI can interface with the signal system. The TA spent a bundle on the Queens Master Tower without any thought of introducing ATI at the same time. They had CRT displays rather than hard wired display boards. Displaying and recording the operator's punch with the red bar is child's play programming-wise.
Now HERE'S where it gets SICK! Remember those stupid RFID tags I brought up a while back? Slap one of those "UPC CODES" on a CARBODY with its car number, throw in some LOW frequency (wide range) RF pickup/interrogator thingies, and place RF loops at diverge stations, and ATID could solve the problem.
But right now, the tower is FLYING BLIND. Back in the days of MARKER LIGHTS, the TW/O could look out the bay window when they saw headlights reflecting off the glass, SPOT the marker lights ... "green-green, D PM express, give it the center track, there it goes by my FACE ... red-green, 207th, white-white, CC, local lineup - green/white, first D local after PM rush" ...
***OH*** so easy for the tower ops ... the could SEE the damned train, markers showed up as bright as the headlights for the bay window (foamers will NEVER appreciate how BRIGHT signal heads are from the center glass - EVER!, compare to marker lights to an old-timey tower op when halogen didn't exist - that's what the FRESNEL LENSES were for) ...
But today, because some ASSHAT decided to do away with markers and bright-assed HUGE multicolored signage, you can't tell what train it is when it's stopped at the PLATFORM anymore, much less "down the hole" ... aggggh. Morons, now they need freaking CPU's to run a @!$%^#@ railroad just as much as they need a CPU to make COFFEE. AGGGH! :(
Ah, the pleasures of a Flushing Super Express back then... That can't happen if half the Flushing staff is busy sleeping right now. 8)
Thanks for the name, brah! I *knew* it was something close to what I had thought, but it was such a short phart in the history of the system that it didn't stick to the old meat-rom. Heh. Little metal toilet seats ... HOW APPROPRIATE! (grin)
The system was called Identra. The carborn equipment was a tuned circuit with 3 switch selectable frequencies. The wayside equipment was essentially a grid dip meter. It was adequate enough on the Flushing line to separate out local, expresses and super expresses.
Now HERE'S where it gets SICK! Remember those stupid RFID tags I brought up a while back? Slap one of those "UPC CODES" on a CARBODY with its car number, throw in some LOW frequency (wide range) RF pickup/interrogator thingies, and place RF loops at diverge stations, and ATID could solve the problem.
There are problems with using barcode technology in this application. The changes in ambient light level creates problems for using barcode technology outdoors. Decoding works best if the barcode is stationary and the scanner throws a moving laser beam across the barcode. Scanners scan the barcode many times to average out errors. They eventually stop scanning when the get a valid barcode. The same is true for wands, people will simply pass the wand over the barcode several times before the get a valid reading. This is not quite the context for NYCT train operations at various places.
There are dozens of ways to design an ATI system. Certainly using RFID tags, some RF loops, etc would work. However, let me reiterate an extensible low cost alternative. Each train has a computer that has a wifi card on it. The computer is programmed to send out an email that contains some information about the car number and the scheduled route. This information is entered by switch settings on the exterior.
The wayside equipment is also computer connected to both a wifi access point and the TA's intranet via their $750 million fiber optic network. The wayside equipment would append their location to the train's id email and forward the amended email to an access list that includes the forward towers.
The tower equipment is a computer that reads its email and formats the information in an appropriate display on some crt.
The point is that the equipment is off the shelf and has commodity pricing. The software is open architecture and requires just a few simple scripts. If this ATI system is completely separated from the signal "safety" system, then there is no reason not to bother with "vital circuts" and all the other shiboleths that the rail equipment manufactures have convinced the industry they need.
That all said, "IDENTRA" (thanks to ALL that have jogged my memory) turned out to be a pathetic and unreliable JOKE as far as how it worked in the TA ... it was ditched, and for good reason. It screwed up more often than it worked. If you ever *RODE* the "automated train," on the TSQ/GCT shuttle (as someone recently bore witness) that too was "ecstacy for the wiglets, agony for the geese" as well.
What is NEEDED (in the absence of marker lights, which SOLVED the problem along with MANY towers) is a reliable means of determining "is the NEXT train past X816 a D train, an A train, a B or a C. Pure and simple, those who have to pull a lever need to RELIABLY KNOW that the parade of lights about to stop at 59 *IS* a D train. When that happens, then the T/O will NOT get a bad lineup, the TW/O can yank the crank with confidence and NOBODY has to drink a few beers in able to whiz in the cup before clocking out. :)
But UNTIL then, the beakies get to play "capture the hourly" for no damned good reason. The SYSTEM sucks, why beat up on the HOURLIES? HELL, when *I* worked for the TA in the days when we had marker lights and towermen/women, you didn't *GET* a bad lineup ... that's the reason for my passion on all this - progress is SUPPOSED TO MEAN IMPROVEMENT, not five steps back into chaos and primordial soup. :(
Oh yeah, Shrub got appointed. Nevermind.
They showed up even brighter without the headlights.
Tom
Foamer glass is cool and all, but MOTORMAN GLASS! Woof! BLINDING! Hell, you could even spot your STEEL off the reflections! :)
You can see the mount for one of the barcode readers outside Mosholu Tower on the yard lead.
Also its right smack in the middle and blocking the catwalk. Ah the brainiacs at the TA.
But an RF ID transponder that could identify a SPECIFIC train would do wonders to relieve the problem now (and I expect CBTC will be an answer here with whatever else it does) as far as indetifying "*THIS* train is 0704 Delta Brighton" ... if a tower had a marker on the board that spelled out "release 12, 14 and 16, set 11, 17 and 18 for THIS train, it's the D that left Brighton at 7:04AM and it's late ... anyone at the levers could breathe a sigh of relief KNOWING that this puppy's going to the Bronx and they can have another poppy seed bagel. :)
And you didn't hit the GT50, but unfortunately it cleared slowly enough that it jolted you enough to let go and so you STILL went BIE. Go down for the piss test now. I'm going to suggest 15 days. :)
But man ... 15? Business days, or "proletariat calendar days?" Ya gotta love the way the swine have it rigged ... 15 days can be either TWO weeks, or THREE weeks, depending on spinmeister. :)
We have FOUND the weapons of Mass Distraction!
That's how I'll work it with you. I mean I know you couldn't stand 15 days away from an Arnine could you?
Man, that completely CHEWS ... when you were shown the street back in MY day, you sat HOME and "contemplated your sins" ... YOU know whut I meen. Sounds like an invite to a TERRORIST ATTACK BY A TRAIN OPERATOR for making the disgruntled work. Seen MANY a tank car and many a GRAIN car tossed sideways (ever hear of a "popcorn train?" GILFORD TRANSPORTATION INDUSTRIES HAS) ... unhappy railroaders should be sitting home watching Showtime EXTREME. Yard Dicks issued orders to shoot to maim upon eyesight. Heh.
Who needs a terrorist attack, just a stunt to maker them THINK its one. Hijack a Slant, bring it up on the Manny B and park it. Enjoy the view till the flashing lights show in the RFW.
QBMT's system does do this. On the displays as the train passes you see a yellow box above it with the train's Route ID.
That's a contradiction to what Mr. Train Dude implied in the following this thread a couple of years ago. There were shots of the crt displays that did not show any route id. These displays have since been removed from the web because of "security" concerns.
I'm happy that tower operators are no longer flying blind.
Also at that time Queens Plaza tower was also still active.
A small corretion, it does "control" the #7 line. It may clock trains and be able to see them but all moves on the #7 line are still done by 111 Tower (Queensboro to Main) and Times Square (Courthouse Sq to Times Square). As well 111 Tower still crosses trains between the divisions at QBP.
Years ago, subway cars had MARKER LIGHTS on the roof. And the TA had towers along the route. Back THEN, the tower operator sat in a bay window track side and when they saw the headlights, they'd glance at the marker lights ... "green/white, it's a D train" and set the sticks accordingly for the D train passing by their face.
Now with all that whizbang and no identifier for the train, HEADS roll ... ah, PROGRESS. :(
A T/O on the A punches for 6th avenue at 59 S/B. The TW/O has gap sheets (in fact the TW/O sitting next to him was the one who crossed him over at 145th, but didn't say that it was 1 ahead.
So the TW/O looks at his gap sheets and sees 1951 A 207 FROC, but gives the 6th Avenue lineup anyway without questioning.
Now who you blame?
But unlike 30+ years ago, when marker lights ruled as they passed towers WAY downstream of the interlock diverge zone, so they could clear you all the way home without a slipup. All I'm saying is this was NOT a problem 30 years ago, why - with all this "TECHNOLOGY" can't they tell a D from an A with 12 minutes headways? Seriously, I'd take CREDIT for smoking the quack if I had some, but WHY can't they find a train when they could 30 years ago? Don't make sense. "Productivity" should result in "enhancements," not retrenchment back to the primordial ooze. :*(
Because with 12 minute headways there is so little happening that the person who should have been paying attention let their mind wander.
It's a standard phenomenon. Boredom breeds proportionately more mistakes than the really busy periods, whether it's driving a car, air traffic control, or whatever.
I'll use that the next time people ask me why as a V/R I work busy jobs!
And DEAD zones? heh. 6th Avenue ANYWHERE except the W4 to 34 tunnel. MOST of CPW, MOST of Concourse south of Tremont - worked OK north ... pretty much MOST of the D run was you could hear command but they couldn't hear YOU, or psssssssssssssssssssssss ... Them Martha Stewart/K-Fart/SCROO the stockholders, your stock is cancelled chitboxes weren't even useful as WHEEL CHOCKS. :(
But yeah, markers made it work! Sorry to wax nostalgic, but wrong lineups were RARE ... when you breezed by a tower at 45-50, your CORRECT lineup was THERE. :(
Sad to say, I quit the TA because it wasn't fun. Looking back from NOW, it was a MEGA-giggle. :(
1) When a T/O punches his selection does the switch change at that point or does the punch somehow notify the tower of the request so the tower can change the switch.
2) Are there signs underground that tell the T/O which track goes where or does he/she learn this by experience or from a map? Further down this thread was talk of a 'D' on a signal on the D line. Does this have anything to do with my question?
3) I figured out that the lower light on a signal means diverge (yellow) or stay mainline (green). What happens when a track splits into two (a Y shape)? Is left always mainline and right always diverging, is it the other way around, or dies it vary?
Thanks
It can be both. Busy interlockings usually have tower notifacation. Layup yards and tail tracks can be automatic.
2) Are there signs underground that tell the T/O which track goes where or does he/she learn this by experience or from a map? Further down this thread was talk of a 'D' on a signal on the D line. Does this have anything to do with my question?
While small signa may exist for track workers, there are no highway type signs for T/O's. T/O's should be expected to know the routes they run on including stations and location of interlockings and where the tracks go.
The real point of a diverging signal is so that the T/O can moderate his or her speed through a turnout. A Y split track could, in theory, have no straight route at all. Many times the choice of the "straight" route seems to be totally arbitrary, but if one route has a higher speed then the others it will be the straight route.
So how does the T/O know which lineup he has? Are there lights or does he look at the switch itself?
On the old IRT signals of course, each junction head pertains to a different lineup, so on 3-way junctions like at E 180 St n/b, the T/O will still know which way the train is going. Other signals make use of the 3-light yard aspect, Y/Y/Y, when the 3rd route is into a yard or yard lead (like at 111 St-Corona w/b).
WE were expected to actually REMEMBER our lineups and where they'd pop up from out of nowhere. And no "know your lineup" signs on the walls EITHER. :)
The train operator is supposed to know the routing of the
train. If an unexpected route is encountered, the train operator,
by rule, must not accept and enter into the route without
confirming it with the tower or command center.
Fine, don't go along with it. Crawl into a bubble labelled
"Jersey Mike's Conception of the Ideal World" and close the door.
NYCT has distant signals, but I think what you mean is there
is no equivalent to Approach Medium. That is true. There has
never been such an indication, even back in the IRT days which
used "railroad-style" aspects.
If the home signal is located on a curve such that it comes
into sight at less than the service braking distance approaching
at full speed, almost always there is a repeater home signal
which is visible in time. Also, there are fairly few instances
in the system where one approaches a route divergence at speed.
Usually these points are located as one departs from a station,
or at the uphill end of a river tube.
(I don't know if this covers bridge vs. tunnel. That W train could run express on the local from 34th past Prince, but would it then stop and await a proper lineup or other information, or would it run through the tunnel without stopping until Pacific?)
IIRC the rule book is kinda vague on that one. It states that if a train operator receives a local lineup but is scheduled to run express, it will make only express stops on the local track unless otherwise told. The rule does not specify whether the T/O should call to question.
However other rules state that when a T/O receives a lineup other than what they should receive, they are to call and verify. I would guess that this applies to accepting a local lineup.
Given that there are other trains behind the one waiting for clarification in the case of a local/express mismatch going ahead seems like a good idea. Waiting more than the average headway could be bad for the entire line.
No offense to anyone on this board, but I have learned that the #7 T/Os are the biggest babies out there when it comes to express or local. :-P Yes some of them do have more sense and just take it. But I had one recently who, do to a delay was told to make local stops. He refused to move the train and called Control until he was given an express lineup.
As for bridge vs tunnel, I would question that one. It ranks right up there with 2s on the Lex, Rs through 63 St, etc - I can get back to my normal route at the expense of ticking off LOTS of people.
What about special cases (which I admit are highly unlikely), like the F between 47-50 and 34 or the E between 50 and 23?
As for bridge vs tunnel, I would question that one. It ranks right up there with 2s on the Lex, Rs through 63 St, etc - I can get back to my normal route at the expense of ticking off LOTS of people.
Not quite the same. If a Q or W is sent through the tunnel, no regular stops are skipped.
But the F still applies.
No, but they'll be pissed because of the extra TIME it takes.
Only way to get the wrong line-up s/b from 57/6 is to punch for it. That's part of Rock Ctr.
That hardly compares with being rerouted up the West Side when you need to go to the East Side.
Only way to get the wrong line-up s/b from 57/6 is to punch for it. That's part of Rock Ctr.
Okay, then, NB. (I didn't specify a direction.)
In all honesty, I don't see a problem with taking an unquestioned line-up in either direction for this case, since you can get back to your noral route without skipping any stations.
If those peering through the railfan window know which route is supposed to get which singals where then I assume the T/O knows this as well. Even if that were not true then what present and former operators have said here, that a T/O is supposed to know their lineup means that the T/O has the capacity to make things right even if they have been lined up for the wrong route. They know what the correct route is. I cannot think of an excuse for taking another route without noting it.
A T/O is supposed to be looking at the signals. If they and the switches are set improperly then the T/O should notice this and call it in. Maybe supervision will tell the T/O to go ahead anyway. Maybe they will set it up right. If this is done there will always be a conscious choice by all involved parties to do whatever was done.
There are other problems with the take whatever route approach too. Imagine a scenario where an operator takes a "point of no return" switch wrong. The operator is questioned later. I include two possible answers from two different T/O's who both got the wrong lineup
Q: At signal xxx, what did it display?
A1: As long as its not red and there's nothing in the way, I go.
A2: Green over yellow.
Q: What does that yellow aspect mean?
A1: I don't have to stop as long the path is clear and I should expect a diverging route following posted speed.
A2: A diverging route usually taken by the Y route, not the X I was on.
Q: Okay one of you stopped and the other didn't. Why?
A1: I go where you say.
A2: I stopped and called in for an explanation of this unusual episode.
Now the first T/O, do you really want him or her driving your train? #1 will take you wherever the signals safely permit regardless of whether or not thats actually where the train is supposed to go. Its true there is not sterring wheel on a train to pick which way to go but the T/O isnt without any capacity for control.
Mike ... the NYCTA does NOT operate like Amtrak. The rules you apply to the subways would get you thrown out of schoolcar on the first day. The T/O (and the CONDUCTOR) are responsible for the routing of trains in the final analysis - only recently a train was diverged at the end of a GO and ended up wrong railing through a tunnel to Queens. The CONDUCTOR bought it because they failed to pull the cord when the train went in the correct direction on the wrong track!
Please, before providing definitive information to people about how the subway system functions, LEARN how it works first? Your information (including "NORMAL" versus "diverge" for interlocking) has been consistently wrong each time ... no offense, guy - but you do NOT have correct information as to NYCTA operations and practices. :(
I've been out of the system myself for over 30 years now and things have changed ... I appreciate your knowledge of NORAC and all, but what you learned does NOT apply to NYCTA. At all.
I don't think its just the pushbutton that changes a switch, the tower gets the request then they have a switchboard so they change the switches.
2) Are there signs underground that tell the T/O which track goes where or does he/she learn this by experience or from a map? Further down this thread was talk of a 'D' on a signal on the D line. Does this have anything to do with my question?
Well there are signs that tel where the train is supposed to go by signlas coeds, yellow/green, green/yellow or possibly green/green.
Example: on the F and G at Bergen St the F is considered the main line which it has a yellow over green while the G is the opposite.
3) I figured out that the lower light on a signal means diverge (yellow) or stay mainline (green). What happens when a track splits into two (a Y shape)? Is left always mainline and right always diverging, is it the other way around, or dies it vary?
It could be neither but chances are it would vary on the line.
Look! It's a wrong line-up! At Bergen northbound, the F has a bottom yellow to go to Jay St, while the G has the bottom green to Hoyt St.
I am from the big street class and some gungho TSS' would say if you don't know your lineups they will take you out of service. Then I would say Oh good maybe they will make me Supt as the Supt does not know them either or can I make a copy of that for my hearing at Jay St for the wrong route.
They would remember I was a wiseass but not remember why and as soon as I would get a speech operating I would talk about that or the history of the F lineups with the great realignment of the sixties.
That is exactly what the AT/D in the CRC at 179 was telling everyone. If you take a wrong wroute, you're covered by that sheet of paper.
The Bergen local track feeds directly into the G towards Queens; the Bergen express track feeds directly into the F towards Manhattan. The actual F, as it exists today, switches from the local to the express north of Bergen. One would therefore expect the F to take the diverging route.
Depends on the location. Most busy areas are tower controlled, the T/O punches, and the TW/O lines up the train based on what he punched.
Other areas like terminals, Mott Avenue (4/5 at 138/GC N/B) and 33rd/Rawson on the #7 are automatic. The T/O punches express or local (or at Mott, Jerome or White Plains) at and the interlocking machines lines up the train based on the punch.
2) Are there signs underground that tell the T/O which track goes where or does he/she learn this by experience or from a map? Further down this thread was talk of a 'D' on a signal on the D line. Does this have anything to do with my question?
The D indicates the the signal is on time due to a diversion ahead. Basically it says "Be going XXX miles per hour and the next signal will clear. If you're going faster it will stay at danger and you'll have to wait till the timer runs out."
3) I figured out that the lower light on a signal means diverge (yellow) or stay mainline (green). What happens when a track splits into two (a Y shape)? Is left always mainline and right always diverging, is it the other way around, or dies it vary?
Even at a wye, there's still a "mainline" and a "diversion". Usually the mainline is determined by which is the route used for normal (or more frequent) service. In areas where the switch was added later, the mainline is usually the route that existed first.
Even though not a wye, the best I can explain the second example is Rockaway Blvd on the A line. Lefferts is considered the mainline even though the train goes to the right, and the Rockaways are pretty much a straight route. This is because the route to Lefferts existed first (as far as the Subway goes).
Some stations do indeed have these signs, showing the T/O which lineup is going to which line. I think that there's one on the northbound local at the north end of the 42ns St / 8th Ave station indicating the lineups for the C & E. I do recall seeing others.
--Mark
The E and F lines home of the wrong route have many of what I call idiot signs to remind you of your route, the F does even more forcefall things to prevent wrong routes. The D has a big sign in homeball alley at the point of no return going northbound.
I always thought the lineups in Brooklyn were much more complicated and they almost seem fatalistic about lineups and there seem to be fewer wrong routes.
1) What prevents a switch from switching when a train is almost on top of it. Does the prior signal have to be green?
When a train is in a circuit approching a home signal (and therefore switch), the interlocking machine applies a time delay to the switch. This always happens when the home signal is green. When the signal is dropped (put to danger) the tower operator must wait a certain amount of time (most places 45 sec but this really depends on the # of signals protecting a switch).
When the home signal is at danger some machines will allow the switch to be moved (although I understand this shouldn't happen at all but maybe one of our signal guys can clarify on the circumstances where this may be allowed).
Put simply, there are a number of conditions, all of which
must be true before a switch can be operated:
1) All home signals protecting movements over that switch
in any direction must be normal (displaying RED over RED).
1A) All trip arms associated with above signals must be in
the tripping position.
2) There is no train approaching the switch OR, if a train
is approaching, a time delay of at least 30 seconds
has elapsed.
3) All approach signals (controlled single-light automatic signals)
associated with the home signals are put to danger.
4) There is no train occupying a short track circuit, known as
the "Detector Circuit", which covers the turnout.
5) All other appropriate route locking is in place. E.g. if movement
of the switch would route the train into oncoming traffic,
then the appropriate home and approach signals on the
other track, in the other direction, are at danger, time
has run out if a train is approaching from the other
direction, etc.
I think this is the easy answer for folks at my level.
There is a signal a block (stretch of track long enough for a train to stop) behind the interlocking. If there is a train in that block, the switch can't be moved. If the switch is being moved, the approach signal will be red and a train running up to it at full speed would hit the stop arm and stop before getting to the switch.
It's a lot more complicated than that, but that is the level I understand and, perhaps, a level appropriate for the questioner.
Before the switch can be moved, both the home and approach
signals must all be at danger. The approach signals (there
are usually 3 or 4 of them) will clear on time as the train
approaches each one. This "proves" that the motorman has
seen the red signals and has the train under control and
at the proper speed (typical clearing speed is about 10 MPH).
This is not exactly true. If a signal is not cleared and a train approaches the home signal at stop a timer does not need to be run. Furthermore, if you have two trains running one behind another, when the first runs through the intelrocking and and signal is not fleeted the towerman can immediately enter another route. The timer is only run when a previously cleared signal is taken away without a train first taking the cleared route through the interlocking.
To display a clear signal there must be a clear route through an interlocking. You move the switches around so that you create a clear route then you are allowed to display a non-stop signal to a train.
Your question asks what prevents someone from moving a switch when a train is almost on top of it. First of all, if the switch is used in a clear route it is locked out and cannot be moved. Now lets say you clear a route, but as a train approaches you turn the signal back to red and move the switch. The train might not be able to stop and then slide into the interlocking and then into another train.
This is where timers come into play. If you take away a signal, to re-clear that signal, to move any switches involved in the route or to clear a comflicting route you must first run a timer. The timer length is designed for any approaching trains to be able to come to a stop. On railroads the run between 4-5 minutes for high signals and .5-2 minutes for dwarfs. On the NYC Subway I believe that someone said they are 45 seconds. Once the timer runs the towerman is then free to manipulate switches governed by the new conditions of the interlocking.
Older interlocking systems require one to run a timer every time you want to take away a signal, even if there are no trains in the interlocking. Systems installed after about 1930 have what is called approach locking, where the timer has to be run only when a train is in the approach block(s) to the home signal.
Note, timers do not have to be run when a train takes you clear signal and then enters the interlocking in the typical fashion. The signal will drop to stop and you are free to re-clear it at your leisure.
Here are a row of US&S dome timers at OVERBROOK tower for levers 10 to 18. Many towers will only have two timers, one for high and one for dwarf signals or one timer for each sub-section of the interlocking.
In NYCT they're not called timer, on the interlocking machine its called the Time Release feature. Timers in NYCT refer to signals that clear for a train moving at the deignated speed for the signal(s).
Holy crap, that's a long time. But yes, I stated that it was 45 seconds, but does vary, for a example on a switch protected by 2 homeballs will take longer before the time release feature allows the switch to be moved.
Older interlocking systems require one to run a timer every time you want to take away a signal, even if there are no trains in the interlocking.
East 180 tower does this as well. Don't know about others.
Yeah, if you look on the timers their rundown time is clearly labeled. Most are 4M 17S, but one is 4M 43S. The shortest is the lever 6 signal at 1M as it controls movement into and out of an MoW siding. Of course the linespeed is 70mph and the block lengths around a mile.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Posted on:7/1/03 7:18:19 AM
Due to a collapsed building wall at East 58th Street near Lexington Avenue, the 4, 5, 6, N, R & W trains are running with slow speeds through the area. We anticipate minor delays as a result.
Peace,
ANDEE
Alas yes, as normal is used in the acronym snafu. The more probing question would be is it an operational necessity. That answer is no.
I'd expect it from a line that runs trains every 90-120 seconds.
The maximum frequency for trains at Main St was 24 tph, when the line was operating at 36 tph. The currently operate only 21 tph peak out of Main St.
The major design problem with Main St is the lack of tail tracks. This increases the amount of time that approaching trains take to clear the interlocking. The fact that the interlocking is longer than most because it is a 3 track line into a 3 track terminal does not help either. The TA had the opportunity to rectify this problem a few years back but chose to make it worse, when they renovated the station.
The long time that trains take to clear the interlocking means that schedules and adherence to them must be tighter. How tight? Assume it takes about 60 seconds to clear the interlocking in either direction. That means it takes 120 for an outgoing and incoming train to clear it. The 21 tph means a 171 second headway. This implies that there is a 51 second interval when there are no trains in the interlocking. This is the total amount of "fat" in the schedule. If one divides this "fat" equally between both directions, then this implies that the trains must be within 25.5 seconds of their schedule. This assumes that the schedules are drawn avoid conflicts. NYCT schedules are drawn to the nearest 30 seconds. So, as a starter NYCT operations planning is not up to the task.
However, a team effort is required to back up trains in conga lines 111th St. First off, there are only 3 pockets at Main St. So, it is vital that garbage out be greater than garbage in. If the departing trains are delayed relative to the arriving trains the reverse will happen. Have the scheduled running times been lengthened over what the actual times should be? This has been one artifice to "improve" on time performance. However, it means that trains will wait outside terminals until a pocket clears. Does the tower quickly clear the interlocking or must departing trains and arriving wait for a lineup? Also, is the clock at Main St properly set or is it running 20 to 30 seconds late? Are new crews waiting on the platform as the train enters Main St or do they start to their position after the train has arrived? In the morning rush half the locals terminate at 111th St also in the evining rush hour half the locals terminate at Willets Pt. Are these trains clearly marked so that the empty quickly or is a lengthy fumigation required.
During my 20 odd years of taking the train to Main St, I noticed that delays getting into Main St were more likely to occur on Fridays or on days before a holiday. My guess is that the backup this coming Thursday wil be monumental.
My own experience last night illustrates operations at Main St. I entered Times Sq around 8 pm and just missed the express. I passed up a local to get the next express. Of course, the waiting train was marked as an express even though it was a local. The express arrived, marked as a local, and I got on it. The local departed. Either the T/O or C/R then announced that express service was suspended and all trains would operate as locals. The dispatcher on the platform made a similar announcement a few minutes later. I just lost around 10 minutes.
The ride progressed normally until just before 111th St. Trains were stacked getting into Main St. We slowly inched past 111th St and past Willets Point. I noticed an express just entering Willets Pt just after we left Willets Pt.
The express passed us as we headed towards Main St. As we approached the portal, I noticed there was a dead train on the outbound local track. That meant that only two tracks were operational and both were headed into Main St. Why wasn't the express swithced to the local at Willets Pt. There were two opportunities to do it there. Once that express passed Willets Pt on the express track, it had go into Main St first just to clear an exiting track from Main St. Indeed, the signal aspect for the middle track turned green on the Times Sq direction, after the express passed us.
I expected to see a Manhattan bound train on the middle track as soon as the expressed got into Main St. None came and we waited some more. We did move up a little more into the tunnel. I noticed that there was a small track fire on the outbound local track. We still waited some more.
We finally started moving but still no train had exited Main St. As we went through the interlocking I noticed that there was a train with passengers on the outging local track stopped just before the track fire. Some how this train was not routed onto the middle track to bypass both the track fire and the stuck train on the ramp. My train finally made it into Main St. I decided not to remain to see how this scenario finally played itself out.
It's seems the problem was bad back then. What did the TA do exactly that made it worse?
Yeah like wider staircases, but I don't know if that would make a difference because its aproblem all over the system. What we need are more courteous passengers.
I overheard once at Woodhaven a woman yell "I'm trying to get downstairs and catch this train, move to the right!" and she was responded with "F-k you there are more of us than you." Ah, New York.
Wider stairways are not an easy solution. If you look at the ceiling you'll notice that there are structural beams the entire length of the platform that constrain the stairways to their current width. However, more stairways is relatively easy and inexpensive. It would have also helped in unloading trains during the evening rush hour.
Unfortunately now that I think about it more staircases won't help either, as most people will go for the starcases where the exit is. This is the problem at Woodhaven/Queens Blvd when a train comes in during the evening rush, and I wouldn't say that Woodhaven suffers a lack of starcases. And people trying to get to a train will want to go down the staircase closest to the exit (if there is a train downstairs I know I have no chance making it by going 30 feet further down). Its really lose/lose I guess.
At 63rd drive, which also has a short mezzanine, it's much more civilized since the mid-station staircase is double width, and the very south end of the station is a direct-to-street exit.
At 67th it's a breeze for people exiting since it's a full size mezzanine and plenty of stairs. Well, that and many people will purposely make their express-local transfer at 71st, so the load is distributed between both directions.
Delays in getting trains out of 111th and Main Streets also cause problems in the AM rush, especially on the local where there will be a gap in service, meaning less tph over the delay time causing the lead local train to have to contend with large crowds and the trailing locals caught with strings of red signals. This too appears to be caused by scheduling problems. When it's really bad there will be three local trains bunched up coming into Junction Boulevard.
Waiting on the eventual everything-runs-bergen-express GO while they work on the upper level crossover...
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
His lives in Massachusetts and periodically comes to NYC.
He is best known here (besides his postings) for doing occasional weather reports for WCBS 880 AM.
http://wcbs880.com/bios/local_bio_glickmantodd_html/
>>>"is a tour operator?"<<<
Be more specific or email me in Private. I think, I know what you
mean, but that would only be conjecture on my part.
8-) ~ Sparky
8-) ~ Sparky
There are probably more then two dozen Shoreline members here & about half that amount are/were qualified operators. JohnS has identified some. I assume you have some reason for asking, so I suggest you send JohnS a personal email about it.
I'll be operating at Branford this Saturday... come on by and say hello!
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Personally, I'm qualified at TMNY and MATA.
I have also guest operated at: Shore Line, Seashore, CTM, BSM, NCTM, PTM, IRM, Fox River, OERM, Fort Smith, Halton County Radial, MTM (Como-Harriet), BAERA, San Jose (Kelly Park).
Jimmy
8-) ~ Sparky
Oops, left out Lou from Brooklyn. Sorry Lou, it was unintentional.
-Stef
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
8-) ~ Sparky
Mark
John
Mark
John
For a subway related day, I'm waiting for March 30th, 2004.
-Robert King
For me: September 28th, 2008. The Broad Street Line turns 80.
Phase II opened National Airport (C10) to Stadium-Armory (D08) as the Blue line. When Phase III opened the extension of the D route from Stadium-Armory (D08) to New Carrollton (D13) west bound trains to National Airport (C10) were Blue line trains and east bound trains to New Carrollton (D13) were Orange line.
The reason this configuration existed is because the curtain roll destination signs on the Rohr car did not have a sign for both terminal stations that were the same color.
In addition to this the interior strip map on the exterior National Airport (C10) destination sign only showed Blue line stations and the interior strip map on the exterior New Carrollton (D13) destination sign only showed Orange line stations. Only after the Orange line opened to Ballston (K04) and Addison Road (G03) did the destination sign show the correct color terminal station in both direction. There was no interior strip map on the Ballston (K04) exterior destination sign.
John
Mark
First Katherine Hepburn, now Buddy Hackett...
Like my mom says, "They always come in threes..." (I fear to guess who is next)
I still remember the SNL jokes made by 'em about him.
Peace,
ANDEE
If you count the entries in the Stiffs.com Dead Celebrity Pool, Bob Hope is the next major star expected to buy the farm.
Mark
Probably about 1982.
Tom
You can check his current status here:
Abe Vigoda status
Sad to say it appears to get more attention and more posts to a topic intended to have a corrrelation to trains but gets WAY OFF TOPIC.
If we were discussing Buddy Hackett''s relationship to trains, even the VW "Love Bug/Herbie" movies I loved when I was a kid, this thread would die with the quickness.
I always thought he worked for the Fifth Avenue bus line in MANHATTAN, not Brooklyn. Come to think of it though, it coulda been Brooklyns' Fifth Ave at that.
As far as the Bensonhurst address, as mentioned all the time on the show, they lived on Chauncy Street. In Bedford Stuyvesant, actually. Which, by itself is believable since there was a lot of "Irish" people living around there in the 40s and 50s. Not so for Southern Brooklyn. But the neighborhood reference was always Bensonhurst. Maybe for the perceived "comic effect" of the word "Benson-hoist".
The Bed-Stuy referent makes sense in this way too: I remember one episode where Alice mentioned she had gone shopping "down on Dekalb Avenue". The "down" part would fit if the location was Chauncy Street. From Bensonhurst it wouldn't make directional sense. And I'm not sure if it was common back then to make the trip all the way "up to downtown" for shopping. I'd figure that was more a North Brooklyn thing. Southern Brooklyn would hit the Avenues, and Kings Hwy, and 86th Street. JMO
Peace,
ANDEE
Ralph Kramden worked for the Gotham Bus Company located at 225 River Street in Manhattan.
Ralph's daily bus run (Bus No. 2969 & No. 247) took him along Madison Avenue in Manhattan.
Any notable subway scenes in the show?
Ralph mentioned on a number of episodes that he drove up and down Madison Avenue.
Not true, in one episode Ralph and Alice are argueing about, what else, money, and Ralph shouts, "You know how many times I have to drive that bus up and down Madison Avenue to make xxx dollars???"
I may not remember the dollar amount, but I remember that line distinctly.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
I was wrong though. There were two routes. NYCO #2 ran along Madison from 24th/25th to 135th, while #1 joined Madison at 42nd. The two routes were the same north of 42nd and south of 24th/25th.
In 1995 Corgi issued model # 54002, a replica of a GM 4506 (Old Look) in MACC colors as fleet # 1707. It is signed #4 Madison Avenue to Park Row & Broadway via 42nd Street.
The map is at: http://members.tripod.com/boarshevik/1940surface/
The restaurant was in the Bronx, indeed its somewhat out-of-the-way location was part of the reason why McClusky and Solazzo chose it. While no el was visible in the front view of the restaurant, trains could be heard passing during the dinner including right before the shooting.
Famous Godfather blooper: (fake) blood can be seen on McClusky's forehead before Michael fires the first shot.
Not-so-famous Godfather trivia: technically speaking, the movie is child pornography under U.S. law. The actress who played Michael's wife in Sicily appeared topless when she was only 17 years old.
Where I see a picture of her?
It's probably illegal.
The Gipper is currently #3 on Stiffs.com's list of celebrities most likely to die in 2003, behind Warren Zevon (lung cancer) and Bob Hope (100 years old).
The remainder of the top ten (one of whom's on-topic!), adjusted for those who've died this year, are:
4. The Pope
5. Johnny Oates (baseball manager, has brain cancer)
6. Madame Chiang Kai-Shek (105 years old)
7. Lady Bird Johnson
8. Carol Shields (Canadian author, has cancer)
9. Ronnie Biggs (British train robber, said to be in very bad health)
10. Barney Kessel (jazz guitarist, in bad shape after stroke)
Funny, I would have thought that Abe V. would be somewhere on that list...
Yes.
Funny, I would have thought that Abe V. would be somewhere on that list...
He's probably off the list because everybody thinks he's already dead
Acutally, he was born in 1921 (courtesy of the Internet Movie DataBase), so he was about 50 during the filming of the Godfather. He did look quite a bit older and indeed played an older character. Then again, Marlon Brando (b. 1924)was only in his late 40's during filming, yet he looked like he was at least 20 years older and of course played an elderly character.
The ultimate in actor/character age mismatches was in the Manchurian Candidate.* Angela Lansbury played Laurence Harvey's mother yet in real life was only three years older than him.
* = On-topic question: were there any subway scenes in the Manchurian Candidate? I don't remember any, but I saw it in my pre-railfan days and might not have taken particular notice of any. Much of the action did take place in New York, including a terrific chase scene in Central Park, so it's a possibility.
My guess is Abe Vigoda...might as well since his name comes up every couple of years...
Last time I saw him was at Chevy Chase's rost on Comedy Central earlier this year.
Bill "Newkirk"
Skip-stop, even though it's only two hours out of the day, will continue even after Marcy Ave is complete.
There's only 6-7 Z's to begin with in the rush hours and may look useless to some but it works [unlike the 1/9].
I can attest to it's necessity. During the 9/11 reroutes the J ran alone during rush hours on an 8 TPH headway and was PACKED like the L line.
www.newyorkish.com
Work. Shopping. Schools. Entertainment. Thanks to the new Metro Gold Line, they’re all an easy train ride away. Now local residents and visitors alike can travel by rail to Chinatown, Colorado Boulevard, Old Pasadena, Pasadena City College, the Southwest Museum and so much more.
Best of all, the Gold Line is part of the 62-station Metro Rail system. So for the first time, Pasadena and Chinatown are linked by rail with downtown LA, Hollywood, Wilshire Center, the San Fernando Valley, Long Beach and dozens of points in between.
Whether you’re a commuter wanting to skip the traffic jams, a student trying to get to class economically, or a shopper hunting for untold bargains, it’s time for you to discover Gold!
*********************
NOW WASNT THAT A NICE COMMERCIAL ? ....................LOL !!
Kewl.
Forgot the keeping-asbestos bit.
Jimmy
Will have to take some pictures, and host them on a free site.
Got 6800,6804,6806,6809...
Those four R-17's were part of a ten car train of experimental air conditioning that also failed. Of course, R-15 #6239 was the first.
Bill "Newkirk"
Of course... but if you prefer, they also come in blue & silver.
--Mark
I look forward to the rest of your construction! I'd imagine accomplishing bi-levels like at the remnants of the 3rd Ave. El or ascending/descening levels at Queensboro are quite a task! Don't forget the pink... :)
I can't wait... my el is just corner braces with strips of pine moulding for trackways :(.
--Mark
MTH is O scale; these are HO
I suspect that, with some work, you could modify them to sit at the proper height, although it might involve repowering.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Jimmy
Is your system outside, or you just put it out there for the photos?
--Mark
My two layover tracks on the other table are also full.
My underground / open cut Stillwell Terminal is getting full :)
--Mark
--Mark
I was thinking a kind of pre-Pre-metro system, similar to Seattle's bus tunnel. They already have an ETB system, so it would seem obvious that maybe a few of those lines should be buried where they go throught the city. The 1, 3, and maybe 4 busses could be buried under 3rd Ave, thereby eliminating traffic related delays. Eventually an LRT could be run right through the 1, with steps taken to keep the 3 and 4 busses operating through the tunnel as ETBs. The same could be done for the north south routes on Main st, they too could be buried eventually. I'm not sure if Dayton will ever need a heavy rail system, they just don't seem to be that big, but the system should be built with IND or so specifications, so that it can later be upgraded to a wholely subsurface subway when traffic density overwhelms even the subway-LRT system.
But this would be a way to head for that system, start small and grow their bus tunnel into an LRT, then finally into a full heavy rail subway.
I agree with the LRT idea. (HRT seems a long way off, given the medium densities.)
The Third Rail has an article on this travesty: http://www.rapidtransit.net/net/thirdrail/0007/dayton.htm
It's called "light" because it can mix with traffic, significally lessening the cost for complete grade separation. They actually weigh quite a bit.
It isn't synonymous with trolley, and it means what it says. The trains are lighter in weight, and shorter, than fully-fledged EMUs. They therefore can safely use a more lightly engineered track; they can go up steeper gradients and round sharper curves; the stations can be shorter; speeds may be lower (though NYC subway speeds are pretty low anyway!) though acceleration may be livelier. For all these reasons they should be cheaper to construct than heavy-rail rapid transit - though that is not always the case in practice.
I guess that by "trolley" (or streetcar or tram) you mean that the rail vehicles run on the street. To be "LRT" they do not necessarily have to include any on-street running. I've never been on the Hudson-Bergen so I don't know if it runs on street at all, but the Newark City Subway doesn't, and neither does the Docklands Light Rail in London.
It sure does.
Peace,
ANDEE
Mark
Trolleys are a subset of light rail, named for the wheel which rolls along the wire which provides electric power. Typically the name trolley evokes the image of a single non articulated vehicle operated on streets. In most of the rest of the world, particularly where pantographs are used for power pickup, they are called trams. "Light rail vehicle" is a more modern name for a tram, particularly when more than one is connected in multiple unit operation.
The "light" in light rail does not refer to the weight of the vehicles, but that it is light duty operation as opposed to a regular rail line. Typically light rail vehicles are narrow enough, and the trains are short enough and take power from overhead lines so that it is possible to operate them on a street, even if in a given operation they have a dedicated ROW. They are based on the designs used for street running trams in Europe which originated as horse drawn streetcars. "Heavy" rail is descended from steam railroad operations with a dedicated ROW and longer, wider trains.
Of course one can always point to exceptions. The SIRT is certainly a lighter duty rail system than most LRV operations, but because of its railroad origins is a heavy rail operation.
Tom
Cheers and 73,
PJ Dougherty
W2IRT/WPXV367
Publisher, Tracks of the NYC Subway
VERSION 3.41 Now Available!
Admittedly a full heavy rail subway is almost out of the question, there is nothing like the population density to support it outside the very center of the CBD. But an LRT system, modeled on Portland or Karlruhe systems might be a good idea, both of those are moderately sized towns that either started with an exsisting Interurban system or with nothing to form a very effective transit system, both of which are still growing. If anything the two cities show that mass transit is in no way limited to large cities with subways and elevateds carrying tens of thousands of people per minute around the city, that LRT or large tram operations can be very successful in such a setting. I just thought that with those two cities doing so well with their systems, perhaps another city of similar size and placement, Dayton, might do well with a new LRT line.
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Switches are pre-made, and placed in-service during fantastically expensive (due to massive number of buses and station personnel giving direction on overtime) 55 hour shutdown, lasting from Friday to Monday morning. You've had some of those on the outer portion of the line during the past year. That's basically done, except for punchlist and removals.
-Stef
-Stef
-Stef
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
1091-1100
I think you mean 1001-1100.
I've don't their 13 mile each way trip to Moscow with #2317 a 4-6-2.
They have three operating engines, one a yard 0-6-0. One of the other two may be in their shop (steamers require a lot of PM work).
#261 is a Northern S-3 4-8-4 (and you guys thought I only knew about rt stuff )
BTW, next month I'll be there for a couple of baseball games & a trolley ride.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Word to the wise: Look at a company's books TWICE before choosing to do business with them. Lowest price is not always the best. Just ask Flxible!
-Adam
(enynova5205@aol.com)
Amtrek's new Service Guarantee - the first of its kind in the industry - is unconditional. That's right. There is no fine print! We promise that your trip will be a good experience. Of course, we don’t guarantee that everything will be perfict, only that your travel experience will be pleasurable. Your three-hour business trip may include an unexpected six-hour mechanical breakdown outside of Bridgeport, Connecticut. However, we promise you'll have a great time waiting for the rescue engine to arrive. Onboard toilets may be clogged with other passengers' droppings, but we promise you'll find that to be a memorable experience.
Will you get a refund if your trip is less than satisfactory? Actually, no. We will issue a voucher redeemable for future Amtrek travel. But vouchers will only be issued if your experience is less than enjoyable. And it WILL be enjoyable. We guarantee it. If you do feel the need to persist in your stubborn and unwarranted quest for compensation, we’ll gently remind you how enjoyable your trip actually was, even though you may not have realized it at the time. That's our promise to you.
This site is SO funny. Please check it out and post your favourites.
Hooray, there is hope!
From: http://amtrek.net/news/index.html
But can state the difference between the three styles of BMT Standards and as well as all other pre-war subway equipment ?
Bill "Newkirk"
There were three types? Gee, thought they all looked the same....
Well.......different roof lines, sign boxes, ceiling fans etc etc.
Bill "Newkirk"
Who cares about Standard? I want to know if she can tell the difference between the SD40-2s from 1972, 1980 and the later rebuilds from SD45s. Can she tell a GP50 phase 1 from a GP50 phase 2? Or how about an M2 from an M4 and M6? Now that would be trivia for a Railfan, not subway buff!
John
If you check out alt.binaries.pictures.rail usenet group, you'll see a couple very regular posters (who take some darn good photos) are ladies.
New Speonk Station on other side of road
Speonk Yard
Old Speonk Stationhouse
Westhampton
One day the digging when too deep and hit an underground water spring. The company tried to pump the water out but was it was too much water pump out. The pit area got completed filled in with water within 12 hours. In the pint was left a crane and 3 railroad boxcars.
The area as I remembered, looks like a beach with white sand with a road and rail ties leading into the water. This was the only area to go into the water since the surround area was a steep drop right into the water. If you swim to the center of the lake and use a diving mask, you can see the crane and the 3 boxcars, which is about 200 feet down in crystal clear water. During the winter, the water doesn’t freeze up. Only a thin layer of ice around the edges is formed with a light fog above the water. And if the weather is calm with no wind, you can actually see the water flow in the center of the lake where the blowout occurred.
Paul
-Stef
Would that have anything to do with my seeing at least three R-40M trainsets on the Q today, and at least one on the N?
But does Concourse really need more R-68s, or is the TA trying to get in on the excellent maintenance there by sending them more? Concourse R-68s always seem to be shiny and clean while CIs look like hell. I couldn't read the rollsigns on one particularly bad set!
Jim Fish
Albuquerque, NM
John
June 30, 2003
July 01, 2003
Below is a sample photo.
Also, nice underground station pics. How did you get them to be so sharp? It looks like some of the pics were taken in low light situations and would come out blurry.
The train with the orange Q had the rollsign set wrong. It should have been a yellow Q.
For the underground pics I used ISO 200 and a shutter speed of 1/25 for still photos and 1/80 for action shots. The G3 really surprised me when I saw that the photos came out.
Would that be on the front end going the other way, could that screw up the riders?
Fat chance.
Now another reason why the Brighton line is preffered by a margin of 4 to 1 over the What?-Beach line.
I liked the slants at Ocean Avenue too - pity about the graffiti on the station, but I guess you couldn't masnage to climb up and scrub them off before taking your pictures (8-) .
All photos taken within the last two weeks have been with a Canon ProShot G3. Most photos taken previous to that were taken with a Toshiba PDR-M71.
my website: http://www.railfanwindow.com
Hopefully tomorrow I'll get out tere and take some. The car hunt has kept me a little on the quiet side as far as pics go lately.
---Choo Choo
Please email me at my other email address: brightonexpdavid@yahoo.com if you interested. Only hardcore and serious people may apply, most likely I will do this and you need 1 to 2 days off from work. I will reply back to you ASAP with the contact and more details.
Again, you have to be prepared for this, no exits and reentries allowed in the subway system.
Also they went through NYCT in giving us permission to sleep in the car, if needed. Bring a pillow but no blanket.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Wouldn't that make the feat much harder, with weekend and holiday schedules?
It is not as much fun as it sounds. Even train buffs will say "no mas" after a while.
Peace,
ANDEE
I can go 8 hours without using the restroom...
I can eat Dunkin Donuts' on the train, have a Nutrament for lunch, and postpone dinner...
I can get refreshments (full of caffiene - it works for me) at newsstands...
I'm not doing anything really important...
I'll even wanna ask them where THEY get off doing subway documentaries..
::coughcoughTHAT'S MY THANGcoughcough::
I can go 8 hours without using the restroom...
I can eat Dunkin Donuts' on the train, have a Nutrament for lunch, and postpone dinner...
I can get refreshments (full of caffiene - it works for me) at newsstands...
I'm not doing anything really important...
Does anyone think I stand a chance? It'll only work if I take advantage of the (A) Rockaway Park Thru Trains. Do you have to stop at every station or does an express run count? What about skip-stop? And unexpected unnannounced battery-runs?
I think I may just take you up on this one...
The idea is to ride all the lines, hit all 468 stations WITHOUT leaving the system.
This harkens back to the days of the token (actually only a couple of months ago). You drop the token in the turnstile and then you ride the entire system in the shortest amount of time possible.
No shortcuts, no buses. This is a subway only situation (except where the bus replaces the train down in Coney Island).
Kids these days - always wanting the easy way.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/
What record would you expect to find? Every time service patterns change, a timer is added, or track is permanently removed, any trip after the event would not be directly comparable with an earlier event. That is the same reason there is no world record for running a marathon race. Because of differences between race courses, and even weather on the same course from year to year, no meaningful comparisons can be made except between those on the same course at the same time.
Tom
For the ones who take them up on it - you might get your name mentioned and maybe even your picture in an article back in page 50.
If you have been following some earlier postings, the print media has been trying to get anyone to participate in interviews, documentaries and such.
My comment was what should we charge per hour for our "expert" assistance to the media? $200? $350?
If anyone wants to do the whole system for the NY Times - you have my moral support.
Wanting to be paid to do a grand tour?? That certainly shows that you are a faux NY subway rail fan. This is on a par with a Kamikaze pilot turning down an assignment because the retirement pay and medical benefits are insufficient. :-)
Tom
There is no "law" involved. If they are setting it up, they get to set the rules.
Tom
Think I'm calling them.
Not according to Petula Clark.
Look again, Jeff, she does not say one cannot sleep in the subway (which we would call an underpass), but the one person the song is addressed to should not do so because much more comfortable accommodations are available.
Tom
Before BigDig gets out, YES! they have a permit!!
You better believe it, onnakowana this ain't just any camera crew:
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
WHAT sort of harmful "appearance" can a dear _mouse make?
Especially our good kind _mouse. :)
WHAT sort of harmful "appearance" can a dear _mouse make?
Furthermore, if the same gal is now the Mrs... I don't think "Appearances" was much an issue, CL..
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
That's as long as at least three people actually apply....I wish they would throw in some prizes or money or rewards or something. I think that in the end, this will be about a 5 to 10 minute segment in a one hour tv show. Hardly seems worth it. If, OTOH, it will set a Guiness World Record (which I highly doubt), then that makes it a little more attractive.
Why?
1. I can't use my RFM(I have a disability but I can handle these types of things).
2. I can't use a MetroCard(At least a MetroCard would be fine)
3. I am not used to rideing subways late at night(My Dad do ride the subway around 12 AM to work).
4. I won't use a bathroom if it's Relly Dirty(Tends to be like that in subway bathrooms,I think).
5. No meal stops(I need to eat at least once or two times a day)
6. My parents would think I am nuts for doing it.(Maybe but they won't let me do it anyway)
7. Might come back smelling bad
8. Might get a headache
That describes the bathrooms in the subway. Bathroom at Boro Hall has nothing that works, and the bathroom at Main St features a toilet bowl with nothing but BROWN WATER. Totally disgusting sh*t.
Bet they wanna do it THIS month.
Gena Konstantinakos from the NY Times will be at the next NY Div ERA meeting this Friday 7/11 at 7 PM. Location for those who need it is 101 Murray St between Greenwich St. and West St.. There is a $5 admission charge for non-members.
For those people who cannot attend the ERA meeting due to religious reasons, please email Gena at: gena@nytimes.com. Serious inquiries only please, the filming will take place VERY SOON (like within 2 weeks from today) and will be aired nationally on a cable station available on your Digital Cable provider, DirecTV, or dish network.
Chambers 1/2/3/9 is the closest stop, right?
I am currently attempting to reach Gena via email/phone.
Thanx.
-Nick
As far as having an attachment to Brooklyn, I don't. I was born, raised and still live in DA BRONX.
Tough!!! :)
However, it does explain one thing -- why the intersection of Jamaica, Fulton and Broadway became a major transit hub. It was and is the site of one of the four passes through the terminal morraine, at a time when natural barriers were much more formidable than today.
I believe the battle for New York isn't better known because the U.S. lost. After that loss, however, Washington realized he couldn't fight the British head on, shifted to gurrella war and went from success to success.
As it involved the Revolutionary War, that would have been jumping the gun quite a bit!
One of the things Gallagher did in his spare time was coordinate walking tours of the Bay Ridge Branch of the Long Island Rail Road. I never was able to tag along for any of those, but did hear about his exploits in that area. Most of the local Brooklyn & Queens papers had sizable Obits on him. Gallagher also was instrumental in getting space for the HARP* group at Floyd Bennett's Hanger 'B'.
*Historic Aircraft Restoration Project
"TV star puts a Highland spring in the step of passengers as she hands out water in new Tube promotion
By Tom James
Gail Porter hands out Highland spring water
More than 300,000 free bottles of water will flow in a Tube holiday giveaway this month.
Tube users will get a taste of Scotland with Highland Spring, which offers the chance to win a spa break there.
Yesterday TV presenter Gail Porter, voted one of the sexiest women in the world, kicked off the launch - handing out bottles at Oxford Circus.
It will continue over the next four weeks at three other busy central London stations - Liverpool Street, Piccadilly Circus and Victoria."
-Robert King
On the other hand, we had people saying that the mta was stupid for getting rid of redbirds. I distinctly recall someone even saying that Rust and corosion can be scrapped, and the birds could stay.
The # of people liking redbirds far outnumbered the # who favored 142's. I don't know how many times we had to hear about the 'deadbirds'.
-Robert King
R-62s still have GE SCM controls, which are all-electric but not electronic and utilize cams.
David
-Robert King
David
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
PS. This picture was definitely taken in the '70s: Davisville station has its original tiles. You can also see that the expanded mezzanine hasn't yet been built and the haircut on the kid in the front window of the train's a dead givaway.
-Robert King
I just wonder why London Underground can't or won't put windows in its cab doors to let passengers see out the front of the trains. I mean, the train operators don't sit in the middle of the cab, so nobody would be looking over their shoulders.
With respect to the lack of railfan windows on the London Underground, you could argue that it would be possible for them to have them on the subsurface stock. The tube stock is very small and that full width cab is needed otherwise there just wouldn't be any space for the train driver. Also, London Underground is an all OPO system (the last hold out was the Northern line until the 59 stock was retired several years ago) and the full width cab is needed for that purpose.
-Robert King
In my observation, drivers don't leave their seat and cross the cab when the platform is at the opposite side to their driving posiotion. There is CCTV, with monitors that they can see out of the appropriate side window (depending on which side the platform is) from the driving position. If that sounds unsafe (in terms of the risk of catching people in the doors and dragging them), remember that LU, unlike the NYC subway, has staff on the platforms at all busy stations.
Although there has to be a full-width cab so that the driver can see across to both sides, there could be clear windows between the car and the cab, at least on the non-driving side, which would provide a raifan view. The first-generation DMUs introduced on British Rail in the 1960s had that kind of view, which was much appreciated by railfans; the current generation DMUs do not, sadly.
I think the real reason we don't have RFWs on the London Underground is just tradition. We've never had them.
I thought maybe it was for security reasons, that maybe LU didn't want people looking into the cab. I thought maybe the earliest stock might have had them. Tube and Subsurface trains could definitely have a window in the cab (J) door. That's what our transverse-cab equipped cars have, although on most R44s, R46s and R68s, the window seems to be blacked out. It would be nice to have them on London Underground stock too.
London used steam engine hauled trains on surface lines in the beginning and early EMUs had their electrical equipment right behind the cab. Even on tube lines, the City and South London (currently part of the Northern) and Central(only for a short time) used electric locos. And the small dimension of tube stock meant even more space taken by the equipment on early EMUs.
The first candidates of RFW would have been the 1938 stock(tube) and the Q stock(surface), unless District Railway's early electric stock already had small cabs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.
I've never seen a London Underground train with a window in the cab door, but I had a few opportunities to ride in the cab, when I was a teenager. RFW ride! That was.
I bet that was a great ride. Do you think if enough folks suggest it, LU might specify cab door windows on the next order of Tube or Subsurface stock?
AEM7
There are no windows on cabs of high speed bullet trains though. Safety measures? Maybe...
None left on the system, perhaps, but there is a pair at Halton.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
-Robert King
;-)
There isn't any reason why they can't have red trains now, now that London Underground insists on painting the trains again. The unpainted aluminum carbodies certainly came and then went with the newer trains and the refurbishment programs. I wouldn't mind seeing the 1938 stock paint scheme applied to the 95 stock.
-Robert King
-Robert King
That's a very nice picture you have of the train, too.
-Robert King
-Robert King
How about a tot of Rum in the winter! :-)
Tom
My intended destination in the Bronx was the 161st Street station, so I got off at 86th to wait for the 4, and I caught a pic of the 5 train as it left. While I was waiting, I saw, not one, but TWO trains of R142A's running on the southbound #4. The car numbers I have for those trains are: 7666 and 7705 -- they were on different trains. Then, finally, a train of R142 cars on the northbound 4. My intentions were to record the automated announcement as the train arrived at the 161st Street station. But just as it was about to do so, the conductor announced that the train's next stop after 161 would be Burnside Avenue. That basically ruined it.
Then I wanted a pic of a train of 1100-series R142's with Yankee Stadium in the background. That went off better. Then, off to the downtown D train platform I went. Took a downtown D train to 34th Street for the R68 sign. After a brief stop at the Manhattan Mall, I went Q-R-M-3-1 to South Ferry (I changed my mind while I was on the R at Prince St). At the Canal Street M station, I noticed that the platform-level crossover has been ripped out, with a hole in the wall (and floor) in its place. Used the new South Ferry exit and walked through Downtown and up along the Hudson River to the World Financial Center. Then, Ground Zero. The last time I was there was about 21 months ago, three days before that terrible day. I saw the PATH station that they're building down there, and the steel beam cross. Then, on to the E train for the trip home.
Back when your old site was up, I used to spend hours playing around with the signs. :-D
About the R142s running on the 2 and 5, you'll see a train most of the time where the map is for a different line. The 2 and 5 both share the same yard (why couldn't they put both the 2 and 5 strip maps together as one?)
First, let me point out that my other site, Transit Sounds Millennium (TSM) has been up for a while (before I left for California). It's located at http://blake.prohosting.com/~tptsm. I'm planning on putting any new transit pictures pages here temporarily until new web space is granted me (I'm looking for something with at least 100 megabytes). Once that's available, I'll start uploading files there, piece by piece, and the temporary pages (@ Prohosting) will be moved to their "permanent" locations.
I acquired a USB Memory Stick reader/writer and a 128 MB Memory Stick which will aid and, hopefully, accelerate the uploading process, so much that I can upload the entire site in one session (My whole site [excluding the Transit Sounds] "weighs" 67 megabytes; no floppy disk-swapping with the Memory Stick). I'll just need to find a place where the computers can access the Memory Stick, either directly or through a USB port.
Anyway, The next set of pictures is up now, (I've put a "Transit Pictures" near the top of the page). It'll be number 42, and I just finished a roll, which will become number 43. Just to let you know, I've renumbered the Transit Pictures pages, eliminating the (in my opinion) annoying "10.2" type call numbers.
Hopefully, it should all be up by the first week of September.
I'm using my redirect URL, http://transfer.to/rmmarrero for this.
First of all, the sight of all the R62A's on the Flushing line discouraged me, as I saw only four Redbirds from TSQ to Main St, including the one I rode back to 74th St. - Broadway from Main St. I rode the express and enjoyed the ride.
Our R62A express arrived on Track M, as I got off to see the "Next Train" signal lit up pointing to the R62A on Track 1. Some arriving passengers filled the train on track M, as a few minutes later, a car cleaner walked the length of the train saying "NEXT TRAIN" and pointing to the train on Track 1. I was already on Track 1, however about 2 minutes later, the train on Track M leaves, as I see some trailing passengers (is that going to a yard or to TSQ?) in the last two cars. A minute later, a Redbird on Track 2 arrives. And some of the T/A workers notified all of us on Track 1 that the Redbird was the next train to go. Some disgruntled passengers, as we all walked up to the mezzanine to get the Redbird, which left two minutes later.
What is the explanation of this slip-up? Are these common?
BTW - you didn't have to go up to the mezzanine to cross over. If you had walked to the north end of the station you could have simply walked over to the other platform.
Considering that the headway on #7 trains is so close missing one train is not that much of a problem.
Didn't KNOW Main St. had 1...
I've always done the stepover at the north end...
That switcheroo pattern ALSO happens on the 7 at the TSQ end.
The r62a was still toasting it's english muffin.
Rusty runs well and warmly (even on an empty stomach!)
Apparently, a tractor-trailer at least 13 feet high, tried unsuccessfully to go underneath the elevated 207th st/IRT station, and the whole load of grapes was ripped apart. According to signs, the posted height was only 11'0".
Michael
Wash, DC
Queens Blvd over Sunnyside yard: 12'6"
Roosevelt Ave and the following: 53, 56, 61/LIRR (12' 6"), 70 (BQE), 72, 75, 82, Elmhurst, 94, Junction (12' 4"), National St (near 103rd st), before and after 108th st, and top of hill by Willets Point/126th st.
The known lowest structure is on N/B Westchester Ave at Brook Ave: 10'8" clearance
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_070203_subway.html
I think 600VDC has a short in the optical circuts.
And as far as the letter vs. package thing goes, Channel 7 called it a "letter" in the breaking news e-mail alert, and then changed it to "package" on the web site's full story. So, the folks at the Mickey Mouse channel got mixed up as well. :-) Nice to know I'm not the only mixed up person working in the broadcast industry.
Hmm, the substance turned out to be corn starch... maybe someone had adult diaper rash :^)
Rim shot!
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_070203_subway.html
Suspicious Package Disrupts Downtown Subway Service
JULY 02ND, 2003
Police are responding to a suspicious package found on a subway near Canal Street, and there are major service disruptions in Lower Manhattan as a result.
A white envelope containing an unidentified white powder was found by some passengers in a duffel bag on a downtown train on the No. 1 and 9 lines at 9 a.m. Wednesday, law enforcement sources told NY1. Passengers were evacuated at Canal Street, and police, firefighters and hazardous materials crews responded to the scene.
At about 10 a.m., a fire official told NY1 that the package tested negative for chemical and radiological agents, with biological tests still pending. An hour and a half later, the police presence at the subway station suddenly escalated, but authorities have not said whether anything dangerous was found in the package.
As a result of the ongoing investigation, No. 1 and 9 trains are suspended from 14th Street to South Ferry in both directions. No. 3 trains are also suspended between 34th Street and Chambers Street. No. 2 trains are running on the No. 5 tracks from 149th Street-Grand Concourse to Nevins Street.
Several roads around the subway station have also been closed to traffic.
Peace,
ANDEE
(sorry for the cut and paste, NY1s site is overloaded)
Suspicious Packages Found In Lower Manhattan; Subway Service Disrupted
JULY 02ND, 2003
Police are responding to two suspicious packages in Lower Manhattan Wednesday. The first was found on a subway near Canal Street, causing major service disruptions, and the second was discovered more than two hours later on the street near City Hall.
A white envelope containing an unidentified white powder was found by some passengers in a duffel bag on a downtown train on the No. 1 and 9 lines at 9 a.m. Wednesday, law enforcement sources told NY1. Without being specific, the sources also said the letter has a message.
Passengers were evacuated at Canal Street, and police, firefighters and hazardous materials crews responded to the scene.
At about 10 a.m., a fire official told NY1 that the package tested negative for chemical and radiological agents, with biological tests still pending. An hour and a half later, the police presence at the subway station suddenly escalated, but authorities have not said whether anything dangerous was found in the package.
As a result of the ongoing investigation, No. 1 and 9 trains are suspended from 14th Street to South Ferry in both directions. No. 3 trains are also suspended between 34th Street and Chambers Street. No. 2 trains are running on the No. 5 tracks from 149th Street-Grand Concourse to Nevins Street.
Several roads around the subway station have also been closed to traffic, causing heavy delays.
More than two hours after the first package was discovered in the subway, police officers began blocking pedestrians from walking around the area around Chambers and Centre streets, near City Hall. Police sources tell NY1 access to the area is being restricted because investigators have found a second suspicious package.
The sources have not revealed exactly where the package was found, or what it contains, but they said they are taking the threat seriously because it was found so soon after the first package.
Check back with NY1.com for the latest on this breaking story.
Peace,
ANDEE
Peace,
ANDEE
The car, which belonged to a Daily News reporter on assignment, was examined by the bomb squad and was found to be clean, said police, who were questioning the caller.
Lemme guess, the Daily Snews is testing NYPD's readiness for a possible terrorist attack?
Peace,
ANDEE
There is no reason to worry.
The war on terrorism is over.
Osama bin Laden is dead.
al-Qaeda has been destroyed.
The war on terrorism is over.
We won.
Case closed.
Instead of running into a corner and piddling yourself every time a camel sneezes in the Rub-al-qyat, marching off on a 'crusade' to rid the world of all the evildoers, or pretending that there is no problem when there clearly is one, what about co-opting those people that currently threaten us? You can't fight Al-queda on our turf, by the time they're across the ocean 90% of their problem is over, you can't fight them overseas in their host countries, thats like trying to smash a fly in a glass house with a hammer. They live off the suffering incumbant in most middle eastern countries for recruits. You just feed them, to develop the infrastructure, and ensure that a regime like the Taliban never rise again, which, provided the people are fed and such, it shouldn't.
Instead we've embarked upon an unwinnable crusade against the middle east in general, all we're doing is inflaming it.
Revalations without any evidence, but no matter.
Maybe you could reveal the numbers in next week's lottery drawing?
Can anyone tell me what is wrong with this service alert on the MTA done by dimwits webstite?
I'd say that Randy Kennedy is at least a semi-buff. His writings show a degree of enthusiasm that you wouldn't get from someone writing about the subway merely as an assigned duty.
Peace,
ANDEE
(Just kidding.)
But I'd rather embarass the suits at the MTA in public, as you can see from my write-ups after I attend the public hearings, instead or terrorizing NYC for this stupidity.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
The station was designed for the 1939 World's Fair. The wide platforms for the express and outbound local were to handle the large crowds coming to the fair each afternoon. On the other side, the extra length station allowed two or three trains to load at the same time. At theat time, both BMT and IRT (and the 2nd Ave. El) served the Flushing line and there was no free transfer at Queensboro Plaza between IRT and BMT, so fair goers returning to the city had to get on the right train. With multiple trains in the station together, there was no one just standing on the platform blocking the flow of foot traffic to one train while waiting for their train to arrive.
Tom
--Mark
I think you meant the MVMs. Because buying your metrocard before the game won't help solve crowding at the turnstiles.
Yawnkee Stadium.
Diamondvision Redbirds.
Diamondvision Redbirds.
That purple diamond might signify a modification of some sort...Some of the R62A singles from Livonia have a green circle sticker next to the number plate.
It appears that the CG has come to its senses and exempted the SI Ferry from these requirements. The odd thing is that the private operators who run smaller boats (600 or fewer vs. 6,000 passengers) DO have to comply.
Here's a link to the story.
S.I. Ferry Riders Get Security Break
Mark
Chip
With that many during the rush hour it could take all day to get to/from Manhattan.
No.
The 3rd Ave El did not use the bridge on Third Ave. The El turned east on 129th St and then crossed the Harlem at 2nd Ave, along with the 2nd Ave El, which had a straight shot.
WHAT VIDEO??! :o
Someone had to pick up the slack.
Time: 7:30 PM Tommorrow
Location: Dekalb Ave/Flatbush Ave station, full time mezzanine area
Bonus points given for those who wear NY Yankee baseball shirts or caps. LOL.
Meet us by the ONLY S/A booth, and don't be late, we need to catch Mark W. working on his N train pulling in at 1937 hours going towards the rat hole.
But if I could make it I'd wear my Mickey Mantle jersey :)
--Mark
Have a happy 4th of July weekend everyone, I'm out.
Oh by the way, Fred is taking the BRIGHTON line to Coney Island????Well I assume your photos will have "N" on them. How much "Sea Beach" can one ride. Oh wait a minute, this is Fred.
I'd rather not post my AIM ScreenName directly on SubTalk, so here is what I propose: If all of you email me your AIM ScreenNames, and include your SubTalk handle, then I will compile a master list of ScreenNames, to be emailed to everyone who has submitted their ScreenName.
How does that sound?
Chapter 11 Choo Choo (Lyrics)
www.railfanwindow.com
add me, im AEM7902
Not true.
If AOL is causing internet programs to crash, then AOL is what should be removed.
Having AOL is the height of stupidity.
if you're talking about the mirc issue from the other thread, actually mirc was crashing when i was connected to the 'net via a college ethernet drop with winsock 2. mirc32 is buggy, because it uses MFC 4.0.
Having AOL is the height of stupidity.
aol is a dialup provider that works and is cheap. internet service in the uk is very different from internet service here, and i have not yet seen a good service provider over here. you have basically three classes of providers: the national chains such as mindspring, aol, and others, and they all require proprietary software which slows down the service and your computer. then there is the low cost providers such as netzero that are slow and annoying and have ads. then there are the local providers that have ppp access points (the real way with minimal software overhead) but they don't have national numbers for you to dial in from anywhere.
with all the pluses and minuses, aol still come out on top. until i find a provider that provides a decent ppp drop and is as cheap as aol while providing nationwide access, i'm not moving.
aem7
No, they don't. I know that while they offer proprietary software, it isn't mandatory, one can use Dial-up Networking. That option is not avaiable with AOL, which also costs $1.95 more and its required software is more slow and bloated. All of the other services (except for the ad-based services like NetZero) cost $21.95.
i might sign up for a trial account.
Mindspring isn't available anymore, it merged with Earthlink. But Earthlink allows it. Also AT&T WorldNet.
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
BTW, I'm BOARshevik. I think it's ridiculous to hide one's AOL screen name.
That mIRC always crashed for you is your computer's problem.
but if the room then closes down and then the next person to sign on automatically become ops. what you mention about the rooms that are permanently acephalous only works on certain servers. it is just not standardized and generally crap. aol enforces the fact that a room is acephalous. much better. i'm a republican, even for my chat preferences.
That mIRC always crashed for you is your computer's problem.
i don't care -- it doesnt work on my platform, and aol works on my platform. therefore mirc is crap and aol is good. my platform is a given -- it is part of the specification.
aem7
No, it isn't. I don't want my E-mail address harvested for spam purposes. If you want my e-mail address, you can ask for it. I post my e-mail when I need to.
how am I supposed to email you all of the screen names.....?
You can IM me. I NEVER sign off.
No, it isn't. I don't want my E-mail address harvested for spam purposes. If you want my e-mail address, you can ask for it. I post my e-mail when I need to.
how am I supposed to email you all of the screen names.....?
You can IM me. I NEVER sign off.
I don't think its ridiculous, maybe people have certain reasons for not putting up their e-mail addresses [I usually do not].
WMATAGMOAGH announces a scheduled chat in that room every week on Saturday. I never come because I think a Saturday night chat and I either forget or have something better to do. Odd, because I used to be in charge there and set up Saturday as the official day!
The last time I was there there was a good crowd.
BTW, did we meet last week?
As to who shows up, there is a very small core group, and then a mix of BusTalkers and SubTalkers which changes from week to week.
I don't understand, what exactly should I change the caption to say? Also, is it ok for me to post the "group photo" from this evening here? (the photo I haven't posted yet...)
Peace,
ANDEE
--Mark
Jimmy
Jimmy
Here's proof Fred can smile. Even on the Brighton :).
Jimmy :)
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
Cuddly... lovable... Fred, how many years has it been since you looked in a mirror? :-)
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Whimpering :)
So that I can torture him about how great my Brighton Line is compared to his Sea Beach.
All what's left and to complete Fred's trip was to ride the Brighton Line for a few minutes. Sure enough, a Q diamond express train pulls in and Fred and I were off towards Kings Highway. Fred said it was getting late, so we settled on getting off at Newkirk Ave. I showed Fred the scaffolding beams holding up the station, and the stickers on the beams that indicate they come from Germany. We went outside fare control so that I can show Fred something that he will NEVER see on the Sea Beach line, the BRT plaque, installed in 1908, introducing the current Brighton Line. (We all know here that the Brighton line in 1908, used the Shuttle ROW, turned onto Fulton St to Park Row in Manhattan.)
We took the next train northbound beacuse I had to go back to Atlantic Ave for a few minutes there. We discussed some poilitcal and off-topic matters, said goodbye at Atlantic (I got off the train while Fred continued his way back to his hotel in Manhattan.). Time for me to go shopping at Pathmark at Atlantic Center at that point, then next Q train back to Newkirk and home.
I had a spendid time with you Fred, nice to meet you. Looking forward to be on the first N train over the bridge in February, 2004 with you and the rest of the Subtalk gang, (after the first D trains to Brooklyn earlier that morning).
R40M N 4494
R40M Q 4542
R68 FAS 2916
R40S Q 4344
R68 Q 2837
You can be sure I'll be there!
Great write up.
I will be a real Subtalk party on a Saturday night, midnight at 6th Ave/34th st, Downtown platform. Separate ways to kill some time or hanging out at a pre-determined stop, then back at 5:30 AM, at Dekalb Ave for first N train over the Bridge.
Hope there is not much snow to slow us down on that day.
Are you planning a trip out for it?
Great trip report; I've been waiting to hear how the rest of the evening played out. I'll get some photos posted soon...
I wonder if you'll be around for the first "N" train over the Manhattan Bridge in perhaps almost 18 years. I'm sure that you'll be happy and I plan to a an "N" train over the Manhattan Bridge when the time comes. Maybe the once great Sea Beach line will return to its former status.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
No you are incorrect:
When regular "N" service is restored in February 2004. It will be the first time regular "N" service has run over the Manhattan Bridge since September 1990.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
Do they use a redbird as an additional car for the 11 car sets often? Or was this one being carried along for the ride?
Also to note, On the Q - both the Diamond and Regular - I saw what appeared to be the R40 (not Shovelnoses) and R42s. What happened to the R68/R68As?
Perhaps if you put spaces between the bracket and the characters in question...
< Q >
Hey, it works!
I said R40/R42. One or the other.
When did the N become all slant? I remember riding an N R68/A (I forgot the number) maybe 3 months ago
Another slip-up. MOSTLY SLANT, I meant. The N still runs R68/A's.
Yes, I know the whole reason is so that the old equipment is on part-time lines. But from a customer point of view it'd be nice to have correct rollsigns.
But from a strictly utilitarian standpoint, you are correct.
Or, alternatively, replace the R-40 rollsigns already! The R-68's got new ones in 2001; when do the R-40's get theirs?
The R-32s on the F also suffer this problem, again signs read Kings Highway, train continues to Ave X. Additionaly I'll bet many F riders don't even know where the rollsigns are on an R-32 after all those years of 100% R-46s they got shoved down their throat (no joke, every time one rolls in at W4th I see people remain on the platform. Since the F serves every station south of W4, there's no reason for anyone to still be there!).
For starters, CIY seems to treat the R-40 slants and the R-40M's identically. Wherever R-40's show up, they can be of either variety.
The diamond-Q has R-40's. The circle-Q has R-68's (an occasional R-68A may also show up). The W has R-68A's (an occasional R-68 may also show up). The N has mostly R-40's, with a few R-68's or R-68A's. The shuttle, of course, has its own dedicated fleet of nine R-68's.
On weekends, since the W runs local, it picks up a few R-40's, and since the Q is temporarily running through the tunnel, it also gets a few.
(Do I have to post photos?)
The N runs exclusively R-68's and R-68A's at night, for OPTO.
Cars aren't assigned permanently to one line. An R-40M sighted on the diamond-Q on Thursday might show up on the N on Friday and on the W on Saturday.
For those unable to see it on the Queens Blvd Line, I saw a second appearance of this train, led by 9311 later in the afternoon at 46th Street/Bliss on the 7. I think the whole train was 11 cars long.
I guess it was coming from Jamaica Yard, or somewhere in that general direction. It then went on the Broadway Line and reversed somewhere (Canal? City Hall LL? Whitehall?) and went up the N to Queensboro Plaza and up to Corona Yard. Did anyone else see this unusual train?
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Those are the R40M's [4450-4549] and there are no R42's currently except 4665 which is mated to 4460 due to the Willy-B accident in 1995. The Q diamond uses R40's and R40M's while the Q local uses the R68/R68A's BUT on weekends you will find a slant or 2 due to the Q running via Montague.
Got your draft card yet? :-)
-Robert King
REAL REASON: Sure that's the excuse they give, but there is chances of the draft being restored are somewhere between -slim and nill.
The DOD wants your name so it can sell it to direct marketing services.
-Robert King
Absolutely. For example, the next time you're watching a game on TV, and yell for your woman to bring you another beer, you should allow her at least ten seconds to get it to you.
Oh, and by the way:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Oh, and by the way:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY
What is this world coming to !!
Bill "Newkirk"
Jealous of it?
Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!
Urban legend alert!
So obviously the age to keep is 21, not 18. I'm sick of having to ask my parents to buy me alcoholic beverages.
My birthday is in a few months. I don't mind not having any for a few years.
A 19th birthday is nothing. There is no milestone.
It still stands, and it's not a wigsphere.
Although I think you might be able to buy an Al Gore doll.
O.K. Chris, hop on a flight to London, then you can drink legally *and* railfan the tube!
Chuck Greene
I have seen this formula repeated in business, athletics, cinema, education, psychology, medicine and plenty of other fields. Far too many people today aren't willing to work hard.
Number 2 -- Be willing to admit when you're wrong or that you don't know something. You'll be amazed at how well people react to such admissions.
Happy Birthday!
CG
(I hear it tends to be more fun that way..)
But what's really fun is driving around the city 3am. Ah, a source of many wasted hours.
NO! I love rush hour traffic. I learned to drive in Manhattan rush hour traffic.
Speeding on the open road is also fun, but it's also illegal. Heavy street traffic allows you to do a lot of fun moves while still driving completely reckfully.
And 'calculating' and 'reckless' certainly aren't antonyms:
I'm calculating the square root of 4.
*I'm reckless the square root of 4.
Entry Word: reckless
Function: adjective
Text: 1
Synonyms ADVENTUROUS, adventuresome, audacious, daredevil, daring, foolhardy, rash, temerarious, venturesome, venturous
Related Word desperate, hopeless
2
Synonyms RASH 1, brash, hasty, hotheaded, ill-advised, incautious, inconsiderate, mad-brained, madcap, thoughtless
Antonyms calculating
3
Synonyms IRRESPONSIBLE, carefree, careless, feckless, incautious, uncareful, wild
A glimmer of hope just came to my eyes.
--
Charles Darwin
Ah, but what about your friend the driver? Was he experienced at driving at such high speeds? There's no margin for error when you're traveling at 135 mph, none at all.
Yes, he was. He even did one of those Skip Barber Racing School things where you run Dodge Vipers around a track. BTW, here is a photo of the dash of a similar Maxima SE (the carbon fiber dash kit is not standard):
You mean a railcar, right? I would hope people would not be that reckless with motor vehicles.
I will note that I did it on a deserted Meritt Parkway, I would not attempt going over 75 with any other cars around.
Thunder, Fire, or Sun?
LOL, thought I was gonna make an import related comment?
Now that I look back what I did was stupid (I was 18 at the time) as the car didn't have Z rated tires, and also lucky. But after my friend having done it the week before (in his 88 Camaro) I had to.
Rail related: While we're talking about speed here, what's the fastest running train in the U.S. (it must reach this speed on the regular to qualify as the answer)?
I think it's between Thurston St in Pawtucket and Douglas Ave in Attleboro ;)
No, but that's not really what I was talking about.
Well you can prove yourself to be a man by taking on Kool-D's offer to ride the system within 25 hours, provided you stay awake. And if you do, YOU DA MAN !
Happy birthday !!
Bill "Newkirk"
That's right might Brighton Line 'bro.
Not that I patronize strip clubs, indeed I can think of few less exciting activities than seeing a bunch of drunken 'tards leer at some drug-addicted skank who'll probably be on welfare once she gets too old and/or fat to keep stripping, but wouldn't they have to restrict attendance to people 21 and over due to their serving alcohol?
Here in Atlanta, home to some of the most liberal strip club laws (the only reason we are a major convention city, we also have more strip clubs per capita than any other city in the country), many strip clubs that allow 18 year olds will stamp those who are over 21. We still have 21 and over clubs, I guess so that they don't have to hassle with stamping hands, plus 18 years don't spend as much as older folks.
I doubt he'd get any at a strip joint. Not too many single female patrons hang out there.
He'd be better off calling one of those "massage" services that advertise in the back pages of the Village Voice.
I've heard that men who go to strip clubs can drop hundreds of dollars on lap dances and not "get anything." While I have no idea what a massage parlor costs, it's probably less than a strip club and at least the patrons get something in return for their money.
So that's why you're always late to ERA meetings!
College also gives you the opportunity to get those jobs a notch above the McJobs. What is your career path at Mickey D's or Wall-Mart ?
Management working shifts with days off during the week ? This week-end I met a used car salesman who had run his own business for six years & is now back to just an employee :-(
2) If you strive to make others happy, you have a shot at being happy yourself. If you expect others to make you happy, expect to be disappointed.
As for some advice, go to college, strive to be one of the best at work and remember charity begins at home. And finally, there is a golden egg for you somewhere, it will hatch for you in the most defining moment in one person's life in a positive moment. When that egg hatches, CARPE DIEM (Seize the day)!
Don't be scared. Life remains great, but you'll lament about what you didn't do or experience when you had the chance. That time, for you, is ahead. For me, it's as much a part of history as a redbird on the #6.
Green = Express
Red = Local
the way it usually is outside of Manhattan
the MTA proposed to run the (2) and <5> express and the (5) local, but Dyre Riders would lose their express service, and that's too important to them
White Plains Road also has express service, although it can take a while for it to show up
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/03/nyregion/03MAYH.html
It doesn't only happen there. Many T/D's seem to view local stations as entirely dispensable, and would rather keep local passengers waiting a half hour than slow down an express by a few minutes.
Before 63st it was very common to see Queensbound Es and Fs arrive at Roosevelt on the local track, and cross them to the express, if the express is congested. And of course with Es and Fs running through dumping their loads for a half hour, the first real local is ALWAYS going to be a G.
That has nothing to do with the service in the Bronx. One could argue that the Concourse express should be the CPW local, because it has a longer route in manhattan. It's manhattan route has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it runs express in manhattan. That said, they run the < 5 > express because Lex is a more popular line than 7th avenue.
1948 run the 7 Av Exp 180 ST/Bronx Park (now abandoned)-Brooklyn,
the Lex Exp 241St-Brooklyn (with some peak Bronx Exp) and a Dyre St
Shuttle.
Later the 7 Av Exp terminated Dyre and at night at 241 St
and Dyre were Night-Shuttle.
To avoid confusion (?) the 7 Av Exp and Lex Exp swaped their
Bronx terminals all times except the peak Exp (now <5>).
So we have the current service.
Found on pages with historical maps/service scans (but not enough
historical info in the WWW!!!!!)
And exactly what end is the "front" end of DeKalb Avenue? And what do you mean by "upstairs"? In the mezzaine, in a building, or on the street?
The 24/7 entrance is also on the western portion of the station. Part time exit is at the eastern end.
http://www.nycsubway.org/img/i7000/img_7713.jpg
The sun does NOT shine from north to south......
No but it goes from east (the right) to west (left) in this photo.
Looking at the shadows I can tell that this picture was taken in the A.M.
--Mark
I think it's between West 8th St. and Ocean Pkwy. More closer to West 8th St.
I don't know if it's still there today, but a couple of years ago, I saw one rail embedded in the dirt for this streetcar line. It was under the "el" only yards from West 8th St. station.
Bill "Newkirk"
It can be, because the trolley ROW was between West 8th and Ocean Pkwy.
Bill "Newkirk"
Only a few yards from the West 8th St. station. If you are in the area, and if it's still there, there should be a single rail still embedded in the dirt, crossing under the "el". I saw this myself, I hope it's still there. Probably the only piece of the streetcar line, not counting the insulator brackets suspended on the "el".
That rail should be for the McDonald Ave trolley line that ran under then Culver "el". Looking at that B&W photo, the PCC was on the right hand track and the left hand track should be for the McDonald Ave line. Sorta like a "wye" track. I just checked my copy of the book "Brooklyn Trolleys" by James Greller and Ed Watson. That line is on the enclosed fold out map on the inside back cover. As Kevin Walsh says, "the past is all around us".
Bill "Newkirk"
As in........ gave it away without consulting us PROS??
My Webshots photos of the museum train at Whitlock Ave on its way to Grand Central shuttle track 1 (the last 6 shots on the page)
Very nice pictures, could you explain to a novice what "Private Varnish" means?
Thanks
Well here are some shots from GCT today:
Dec 26
Feb 15
Mar 8
:co
Here's some of them:
Forest Parkway:
Lorimer Street:
Flushing Avenue:
I love the 4th one, with the spark and the 3 trains passing at once.
The (M) was still decently crowded leaving Myrtle.
The first time I did that, the (M) crossed before we got in the station, and we had to wait outside Myrtle. Since that time, every J has been allowed to enter, and left first. I watched the waiting (M) train wait for 5 minutes from down on the street.
But one would think the M would run express in the PM rush to expedite the switching, as there would be less cross-traffic.
No. First of all, it's confusing if the J/Z run exp in the AM and then the M in the PM. Also, the Broadway el has more passengers than the Myrtle el, and a much longer route. It makes sense to run the J/Z the express always.
What they should do is run every J train ahead of the M train. The J will be waiting at Broad anyway, so you don't have to worry about it arriving at the junction late.
Hmmm...that's strange...I almost always see the M leave first. The only time I've seen the J/Z leave first is if it's late (or the M's early). Then again the J and Z are notorious for being late...
You couldn't be more wrong. Lots of J riders in the AM will get off at Myrtle to get an M to Flushing, Lorimer or Hewes.
BTW, I hate that god-damned new structure placed in between the tracks. Destroys the view.
As for those stupid structures, I agree, and they are everywhere now. I had a hard time framing photos at Forest Parkway because of them.
What the hell are all those structures all over the place anyway? They didn't seem to be necessary years ago.
Yeah me too, there must be a reason why I always wind up railfanning the J or M when I get a chance.....
Ahem.
It would be interesting to see if the area's recovery has been reflected in increased turnstile counts at the stations along that stretch.
I remember seeing the abandoned Woolworth's back in the 80's. They are doing some work on that Gates movie theater. It's going to be used for something after all these years, not a theater of course though, but at least it won't be abandoned anymore. The interior was probably not salvagable.
There was also a very beautiful movie house on the courner of Howard and Broadway[RKO,I think] that was closed for years[I saw James Brown there once as a kid].
I don't remember a theater at Howard and Broadway. That's proabably before my memory. (although it wouldn't happen to be this buildng would it? This is one of David Pirman's mystery photos, and we were trying to figure out where this building and what station was, which looks like it may have been along the Broadway el, but the building is gone possibly).
There was also an great old theater at the western end of the Myrle Ave station. It was also abandoned for years when I first saw it. I don't know what it was called, but it was very old. I have seen photos of it in the backround when they were rebuilding the Broadway el in the 1910's, and it was there (you can also see it in a scene in the movie "Ghost"). That theater had a sad ending, about 5 years ago it was demolished, and for a few months, all that was standing was the stage wall. It was so interesting to see the whole interior of the theater from the station during demolision. It had beautiful plasterwork and Roman columns inside. That whole Broadway area must have been some great area before it fell into decline and fell apart...it was even interesting the lowpoint.
Well, to bring this back on topic, here are some photos of that ride:
I thought this was cool because of the flag:
Lotta peeps sporting the 'REESE' look.
People ride trains.
People (dont care) as much as we do.
People (don't know) about this site.
......zo how can we expect outsiders to zee their pic here?
Now that is just mysterious and interesting [especially in the subway]. You think your chances of winning the Lotto will go up LOL :-D.
WHAT happened last time??
Did she pull a BIE on Bri??
Whateva floats your boats, boiz. :) lol
Geez, what a disappointment. With that title on this thread I was expecting a Penthouse Forum letter. :-)
Tom
It only seems to happen when there is a train in the station, as I took this photo moments later, and there is no haze. It can't be train movement because the 6 is stopped in the above photo.
Although in the 2nd one it does seem like there is a reflection of the train's side in the "dust". This happened to me once-it's in one of my photos in the Grand Central Terminal thread. The white/red stripe reflected in dust just a few inches above where it actually is.
Some of them are very photogenic but they can't seem to get it together so you get the haze.
(^_^) etc.
While SB trains can currently use either the north track or the middle track, when the Canal realignment is finished, NB trains will have to use the middle track, so SB trains will have to use the north track.
The wall platform also has a direct street exit and a nice new connection to the IND mezzanine (which essentially is a second direct street exit). The island platform only has the narrow staircases to the IND platforms.
A removeable bridge, like the one at the Times Square shuttle station, should connect to the south side mezzanine.
And I still don't see what's wrong with leaving a bit of history in plain sight. Turn on the lights!
Oh I agree with that. That's why I said they should install a switch if they were going to wall it up, and make Essex a two Wall platform station. I feel if they are going to leave the Queens track in view, they should install a switch anyway, so trains from Bowery can still access that track, and 6th Ave tracks can access the middle track.
As for my ideas of putting a tack wall along the Queens track, or walling it off completely to make a two wall platform station, that would only be if they just left the trolley station the way it is. If however they cleaned it up, I wouldn't want it covered. In fact, maybe they should even make it an part of the Transit museum, and pull in some of the trains that the TM stores at COney Island. The Trolley trackways are the same gauge, so if they redid them, they could store trains on the old trackways. The biggest problem is though that the platforms for the trollies were all obviously low level platforms. That could be a problem with having the public come visit. And with ADA requirements, even for a museum, it would hard to that.
In fact, maybe they should even make it an part of the Transit museum, and pull in some of the trains that the TM stores at COney Island.
Not feasible, IMO. The curves are way too sharp. I doubt even an IRT car could manage those turns. Maybe they should do that with Canal and Bowery [the unused platforms]. Plenty of space there for one each of the new car classes that will be incoming in 2005 (R32, R38, R40, R40M, R42, and maybe even R44). They can even store that R40-R40M R40M-R40M R40M-R40M R40M-R40 bullet train without gates that everyone's been dreaming about!
I would really like to see the tiling of the original "Delancey Street" tablet, if one ever existed there.
In most cases I agree, but at Essex, those weird mosaics were only put there in 1989 or so, so no loss. That cement block wall is about a stairway's length away from the original wall there. Before 1989, Essex's original wall was exposed, and there were about three or four stairways (ala the IND) that went up. Then there was a fence (such as at 36th Street on QB, or Atlantic IRT), that blocked off all those stairways, around where the cement block wall is now. It was a real mess, because they stored all kinds of back there, and it was all in plain sight.
The original tile walls at Essex had NO mosaics, and NO name tablets. It was just plain white tile from wall the ceiling, in the same brick style that they are now installing. The only signs at Essex were standard subway black with white letters metal signs attached to the "jail" bar fence.
The mosaics now being covered were one of the first attemps to recreate mosaics done by the MTA. As primitive as they are, that wall was a vast improvement over what was there. It can only get better from this point.
I hope this makes sense, as I'm typing this during a break at a BBQ, and have had a bit to drink, what's the 4th without some beer!!!
HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY!!!!
Same to you. Now go! Drink some more. You seem way too sober.
I agree it was just awful and plain but now it will improve the station big time like they did at Atlantic Av on the Q. But as said the Essex wall was only in place since 1989 and now its getting a proper makeover.
wayne
Space for new mosaics
What is behind that blue plywood square?
I may be able to help, please use my e-mail.
Bill "Newkirk"
Mark
Mark
At least they get to experience the CPW express on their final run under their own power (albeit slowly).
I have a bad feeling that 9450-51 are next. BTW, where are the Subway Series cars? What set are they with? I saw them (9394-95) with 9702-03 & 9710-11 about several weeks ago. Still with them?
In Corona Yard
At Times Square
If you go there today, they have already driven some pipes in and have some sort of tarp over the entire thing.
The passenger-unfriendly cars with the poorly designed computerized features that so many railfans enjoy belong in a museum.
Straps suck. They swing from side-to-side providing NO support, and when all of the ones near you are occupied, you're screwed. The R-62s and R-142s have more vertical poles for those who need them.
The R-62s have color-coded rollsigns, but what difference does it make? Color is not the final designator of a train, and on the IRT it's rare to have two trains on the same line with different colors (only the 2 and 5).
Side-to-side support is unnecessary. Trains don't suddenly accelerate or decelerate from side to side. There's no need to strain everyone's wrists over harmless sway.
Front-to-back support is all that's necessary, and straps provide it better than overhead bars that run front to back.
R-17 straps have obvious spaces for two non-touching hands per strap. They're superior to Redbird straps in utility and in aesthetics.
The R-62s and R-142s have more vertical poles for those who need them.
That doesn't do much good if they're already in use.
I have nothing against bus-style straps, attached to overhead bars, but straps are useful to many.
The R-62s have color-coded rollsigns, but what difference does it make? Color is not the final designator of a train, and on the IRT it's rare to have two trains on the same line with different colors (only the 2 and 5).
The subway is hardly known for its stellar signage. One of its positive points is its use of a distinct and consistent logo for each line, consisting of a white or black letter or numeral on a solidly colored background of either a circle or a diamond. The logo for (e.g.) the 4 train, as depicted on the map, on all permanent station signage, on the R-62's, and on the Redbirds, is a white 4 inside a solid green circle. Neither a yellow 4 on a black background nor a red 4 on a black background surrounded by a hollow red circle, nor even a green numeral 4 enclosed in green parentheses on a black background, is the logo for the 4 train. Given how easy it is to get lost on the subway, it hardly makes sense to abandon one of the system's few straightforward navigational aids.
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_99/49cfr213_99.html
Running faster than 80 mph without PTS is not dangerous; trains were using CTC and cab signals prior to the edict. The ICC set that speed in reaction to an accident. Prior to that, speeds of passenger trains often exceeded 100 mph and most lines that allowed that speed were cab-signalled. Nowadays, if a road has cab signals, the fastest speed allowed is 90 mph; for faster than that, you have to put in the PTS. Basically, the ICC told the railroads that if they wanted to run their trains at the speeds they had been running them at, they would have to pay for all the additional signaling themselves; that was one factor in the trains slowing down to 79 mph for the most part.
In truth, this was merely an excuse for the ICC to help the interstate highways become competitive and to introduce the “superior qualities” of airline travel. Quite unfair.
Rail entities cannot be trusted to invent their own definition of safety
Neither can our federal rail agencies be trusted to fund improvements in order to help passenger rail become competitive again.
In 1922 when the regulations were first devoloped it was in responce to an alarming rise in accidents (even though most were derailments or grade crossing related), they gave railroads until 1948 to implement the technologies. In 1922 Interstates weren't even concieved of.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
--Mark
Back-lighted photo (cloudy)
You know of one for $300 or less?
Peace,
ANDEE
But then again, there are gas station attendents who laboriously keep clicking in a few more drops until the pump rolls over to an even dollar amount... even though I am paying with a credit card.
If I pay by credit card for a meal, I'll give an "odd amount" tip in order to make the whole charge an even dollar figure. Just a habit.
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/Sunset/S009_R42_J_Cy
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/Sunset/S011_R42_M_Ko
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/Sunset/S012_R143_L_BJ
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/6-29-03/1303_200_Bway
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/6-29-03/1307_242_Yd - I wish I had thought of doing that.
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/6-29-03/1332_Worth_Lex
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/6-29-03/1342_R15_6239_1_BB
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/6-29-03/1362_242_Yd
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/6-29-03/1374_R12_5760_231_Bwy How in the ???? did you pull this off????
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/6-29-03/1417_Plhm_Yd - Thanks for showing me what I missed
http://www.bwayjcteny.com/postnuke/html/modules/gallery/6-29-03/1431_Group_Photo - Ok, that made my day. Thanks.
How in the ???? did you pull this off????
I thought I told you that story? Guess not...
Thanks for showing me what I missed
Ya didn' miss much. That double red was as far as we went. I was shocked we didn't go through at least one of the loops (actually I was kinda hoping we'd do all 3).
Ok, that made my day. Thanks.
That doesn't say much, since it's only 2 hours into said day. LOL. You're welcome.
THANKS FOR THE LIT 1 ROLLSIGN, brah!!!!!!!!!
GREAT gallery you gots there, too!!
--Mark
(If you EVER wanna sell the original (or reprint)~!!
Mark
til next time
Mark
From the front, of course, you're right.
Mark
on the New York City Subway Cars page looks decievingly rectilinear, more like an R62, at least to my untrained eye. Maybe it was the angle of the shot or something. I was looking for that wedge shape when I was trying to identify the car, so I passed by thte R42s entirely. Thanks folks for clearing this up for me.
Mark
til next time
Now take a look at this N and R service advisory. NOTE: The bullets will not come out in adobe acrobat, don't worry about it.
Special thanks to David J. Greenberger who told me this mixup last Sunday during the MOD trip.
I takes really poor management to be able to maintain such poor service for such a sustainted period of time. I've been living in Kingsbridge for over 2years now and there has been no improvement in the two years I've been treated to leisurly trips home in the evening.
I suggested on this board, since you are a resident in Kingsbridge that has more teeth, that during AM and PM rush hours every other #1 train relays at Dyckman St, so there would be less trains from Dyckman to 242/VCP and skip-stop is killed off. But this would also improve service in the long run. Since you are a resident in Kingsbridge that has more teeth, you should write or email to the MTA on this suggestion.
Case & point another reason why the 1/9 skip stop is unreliable, and its supposed to save 4-5 minutes, right! :-\
Another possibility: this is only referring to late night R service. The express tracks at Pacific may be closed, so nothing can terminate there. So during the day, the R will run to Whitehall, and at night it will terminate at 36th along with the N.
Rs are supposed to be running in two sections - Continental to 2 Ave and 95 to Whitehall; Ws drop out at 42 St and Qs run local from Canal to 57
71st/FH to 2nd Ave (via. V line)
Whitehall to Pacific
36th st to 95th st
Even NYCT got me confused, I made an error in an earlier post that the N is turning at Pacific, when it actuall STARTS at Pacific St on weekends. So only the R can turn at Pacific while the N runs from 36th st to 86th st, both in Brooklyn.
I think I figured it out. The express tracks are closed at Pacific. Whatever normally relays at Pacific (the N all weekend, the R late nights only) is instead terminating at 36th.
The rest of the weekend, the Brooklyn R is terminating at Whitehall.
Of course, that's not what the advisories say, but I think that's what they mean.
(Besides, he may already have a job he's happy with.)
Peace,
ANDEE
As a C/R I loved both the R and the V. The V because the run was short, and the R because the most that I was doing was 2 trips. And the R does have a lot of good GOs (shortlining to either Canal or Whitehall).
Now how did I know that the B & Q would be your top choices ;-).
GO #2 - takes out F3 from Gold St to north of 36 and F4 from north of 36 to Pacific. 0001 Sat to 0500 Monday.
N shortlined to 36 St.
R midnight Shuttle shortlined to 36 St.
Anyone know where Global Default Zone is? Perhaps 76th Street is on that line....
Peace,
ANDEE
Three or four Christmases ago, I was visiting my grandmother and step-grandad (ex-CRNJ trainmaster, BTW) in St. Petersburg, Fla. My wife and I had occasion to journey across the bay to visit Tampa, where we went to the aquarium and Ybor City. At the time, I recall thinking how well a trolley line would work in or between those 2 areas. Honestly, I had no knowledge at the time that the TECO Streetcar System was in the works, but now it is up and running serving not only the tourists which it was intended to, but also the area's commuters.
Granted, the area had already been developed and become a tourist attraction before the trolley line was built, but it rather disturbs me that there is no one in New York with enough vision (or, I guess, money) to transform the Brooklyn waterfront into just such a destination, complete with its own streetcar line, modeled after the one in Tampa.
I have never been to Red Hook, so I am unfamiliar with the area. I don't know if such development would be possible there. But you have to admit that, given the TECO system, trolleys on the Brooklyn waterfront is not that far-fetched an idea. It would be an alternative to auto traffic, a commuter line and a tourist attraction. More ambitious and less successful things have been built in New York. The only things in the way are financing and inertia. (Perhaps development tied to the 2012 Olympics could include waterfront streetcars. Of course, NYC has to win the bid, and these trolleys would be in Queens, but why quibble.)
Since it appears that poor Bob Diamond's dream of a trolley line, which really was a trolley line for a trolley line's sake (and, believe me, as a streetcar fan I have no problem at all with that!), is dying, I propose that our one hope might be for the city and/or a private developer to revive the idea by tying it to general development of the area. It might take years, but such a project might remove the perception that trolleys once again rolling along Brooklyn streets is simply the pipe dream of one silly railfan.
I don't say this to insult you, Bob. I'm all for streetcars once again plying the streets of my adopted home borough. I've read your website, and I know this project wasn't simply a plaything for you and your organization. The line made sense as both a historic attraction and public service. It just seems like you are fighting a losing battle against City Hall after a sad series of events which were mostly out of your control. What little support you have from people like us seems not enough to make a difference, and the media appears not at all interested in your plight. I can't tell you how this turn of events breaks my heart.
But I really believe there is hope for streetcars in Brooklyn, especially given recent tourist-inspired streetcar line construction in places like New Orleans and Tampa, both of whose lines serve city residents as well as visitors. It's just too bad you're only Bob Diamond, and not Bob Trump.
City Hall, and for that matter Albany, simply don't care about our needs, just their own. And what's their excuse - "Hey, what did you expect? This is New York!" Sad. And as long as we have folks in City Hall with no vision, there's no hope for visionary projects such as the Red Hook trolley line. It's great to have bold thinkers and doers like Bob Diamond. Shame that DOT and City Hall screwed him.
"This is New York" is also what you might hear from a corporate CEO when he explains why he's moving his company to the Sunbelt.
Now it appears it's going to be a commercial area with a big grocery store to be the first new use of the realestate. Bob Diamond's stuff is in the way of the planned parking lot & his trolley tracks just don't fit in. It's realy too bad ... would have, should have, could have :-(
The City also is apparently moving to do something similar (commercial or residential development) a little further East, after they evict New York Cross Harbor.
Yet surely it would have been possible to accommodate the trolley project within the neighborhood's development. Of course, that would have required some ability on the city's part to negotiate and compromise, an ability which it lacked. A true disgrace.
Skagway Webcam
Mark
Thank you,
Flushing7
(Larry)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160 (NYCTBA Webmaster)
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Plus there were times (before the installation kits) that object files and such ended up in my AOL folder instead of the BVE folder. =(
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Try finding out yourself and report back, kapisce??
AcelaExpress2005 - R160
Here's a link to the schedules.
--Mark
Pete is looking to ride this bus because he wants to railfan the Pascack Valley Line. Since the Pascack Valley line runs only one way each rush hour, the only way to do it without a car is with this bus.
Still, those are buses. Because they facilitate railfanning, they are not off topic.
Therefore people should talk about transit and not be annoying netcops.
The TZX Schedule includes the fare on the penultimate page: $1.50.
I'm not in the Model UN, but I would like the monkey butlers.
til next time
Not only is it easier to turn trains at Essex, it also allows passengers who didn't realize they weren't on a normal R to transfer to the regular R at Canal or to the F at Essex.
You're looking at a 4 train advisory. All that's relevant to 4 passengers is that this funky R runs between Chambers and Pacific.
(Do you think the south terminal is Pacific, as the advisory also suggests? Then what line goes to 95th?)
It'd be a neat trick to see DeKalb turn a train at Pacific too.
Reminds me of what the 1 did one weekend last summer: terminate at 34th, relay at Chambers, and go back into service at Franklin. I never did figure out why it didn't stay in service to Franklin or at least to 14th.
What other long relays have there been? The M weekend shuttle to Marcy when one of the local tracks is closed for a GO is a moderately long one.
I see no reason tunnel trains couldn't switch to the express track and do the same. (The N, of course, would have to be diverted.)
6s on occaision use the yard lead at Westchester Yard.
The 2/5 GO of a few months ago had 5s relaying at 167 St.
Cs have been known to relay in Pitkin Yard (not just on the leads).
The Jamaica Yard leads are used for R/V relays on a regular basis.
The H used to relay at Howard Beach (and even after the spur was open would occaisionally do so until track F2 was O/O/S).
Relaying to the yard on the N is considered a long relay (used when the W is running on teh Sea Beach).
Aren't there occasions when the Q relays at Stillwell?
Which of these is the longest? I think the 1 relaying from 34th to Chambers is still the winner.
Which of these is the longest? I think the 1 relaying from 34th to Chambers is still the winner.
No idea, but oy're probably right.
-Stef
(In either case, there was no reason at all to close 28th, 23rd, and 18th SB.)
What an odd GO.
Buit you're right it doesn't make sense to skip the local stops. But eh, sometimes to TA does funky things. At least with the D's long relaying to Second Avenue, Skipping Bway-Laf they have a valid reason.
The relay you describe is also used when the J is rerouted to the express track in one direction. The M can't turn on the middle track, since it would get in the way ot J trains, so it runs light to Marcy middle and back.
In the 9th Avenue incident, could M trains have discharged at 36th and relayed on the Sea Beach middle? Or was that track not available yet? (I assume 9th lower wasn't an option.)
No Sure Route to the Shore
I thought it was a little odd that there was no mention of NJT's commuter rail service between 30th Street and Atlantic City as an alternative to congested highways. I know this system has flaws, but they could have at least talked about that. If train service isn't a practical, then they could have said something about why it isn't, instead of just writing as if there were no rail service at all.
Mark
Atlantic City is the only town with a critical mass of year-round residents to make public transit a go, particularly since the advent of the casino industry. If that industry didn`t take root there, I think even that small system would not survive in the form it is today.
Mark
Thanks for another great shot!
Mark
Thanks.
There is no Track #7.
The H Avenue station, on the border of Midwood and Flatbush, is an example of the area's old-fashioned charm. The 97-year-old structure was originally a real estate office, but now serves riders on the Q local. New York City Transit is rehabilitating the Q stations, so Avenue H's future is up for debate. The wooden station is considered a fire hazard by the authority, which proposed to demolish it and build a new station. Community District 14, representing Flatbush and Midwood, is fighting that plan. "We have gone back to the drawing board," said Deirdre Parker, a Metropolitan Transportation Authority spokeswoman. "We are looking for alternative ways to keep it the way it is."
Meanwhile, the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission is considering a request to designate the station a landmark and the surrounding neighborhood in Flatbush, Fiske Terrace, a historic district. The petition cites the enclave, named for the family that sold the property to the developer, for its distinguished older Victorian homes, many with curving front porches.
Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
NYCT will rehabilitate the T.B. Ackerson Real Estate office but will preserve the exterior of the building. What a scared landmark that should've been a long time ago.
You know, one of those streets out in 718-land, as reported by the same paper that, a couple weeks ago, profiled actor Frankie G and published a photo of him sitting in "a park in Flushing." Arthur Ashe Stadium was clearly visible in the background.
Staten Island, I think. It's all the same ;).
(Can't anyone tell a joke?)
Peace,
ANDEE
If it weren't for that boat race ~250 years ago, Staten Island might be 201 today.
735 doesn't exist yet.
DOT is never wrong :)
--Mark
--Mark
Sure they are; ever been to the corner of Ave I & Utica St in Brooklyn? :)
At least they didn't make the same mistake in the Bleecker subway station, like they did at Beverley on the Flatbush IRT.
But isn't there some debate as to Beverley's correct spelling?
Yes, and here is an article about it:
http://subway.com.ru/news/beverly.htm
http://subway.com.ru/news/beverley.htm
http://subway.com.ru/news/beverly.htm
NO, the article made it clear that it's WITH the e :)
Look at this 1951 subway map. It has both stations spelled as BeverLEY Road.
The 1959 subway map, same thing.
But the 1972 map has BeverLEY and BeverLY road respectively.
A 1990 subway map (with the N train going over the Bridge, briefly) had BeverLY road on the Brighton Line and BeverLEY Road on the IRT line, all mixed up.
Now who is to blame for this?
but the 1937 BMT map spells it BeverlEY on the map, then back to BeverlY on the service guide.
Weird
If you go to the boardwalk at Coney Island, one of the signs will inform you that you're on the RIEGELMANN BOARDDWALK.
I can't blame NYCDOT for ths one, obviously, but I always enjoyed the street sign near New Paltz for MOUNTIAN REST RD.
The upper Hudson Valley is a HUMID place this time of year. Woof.
Of course, but the people you are telling it to have to realize you're telling a joke.
And because it doesn't meet code, and because if there is ever a fire and someone is injured they'll sue the MTA for $100 million dollars, and all the pols will be bashing the incompetent murderous MTA.
The MTA and NYCT are exempt from all local health and building regulations by NYS statute.
That prevents a court order forcing them to fix it. But it doesn't prevent the possibility of punitive damages if there is a future serious injury. "You mean you knew it was contrary to code and you didn't order it fixed?"
The MTA's adherence to local codes and regulations appears to be based on the MTA's convenience and not public safety nor the fear of legal action. Just about every station in the system has some serious fire code violations. Many violations are by design. Recent renovations have not addressed such violations. Many recent renovations have made the obvious violations worse.
Removing these violations system-wide is a very expensive undertaking. The MTA has conveniently forgotten about them. However, should the public demand that the MTA spend a couple of cents to raise the esthetics of their bland station design, the MTA's knee jerk reaction is "code violation".
My impression is that code is not the real reason. What is the real reason? Perhaps it's inconvenient to maintain. Perhaps it would be more costly to upgrade without altering the outer structure. Perhaps it is in the way of the way they want to widen the platforms and build new staircases.
If fire danger were the real reason, you would not be able to allow visitors into most of the historic structures in this country. And if wood structures were that much of a danger, you would not find an insurer who would cover the great majority of the private homes in this country at a reasonable cost.
P.S. It was an old Moses trick to allow a disfavored structure to deteriorate to the point of danger, then say that it "had" to be torn down.
I'll repeat the question. What's H Avenue?
When someone like David Greenberger, who's been posting here for years and clearly knows a lot about all parts of NYC, asks "What's H Avenue", it seems pretty obvious that he was making fun of the reporter's mistake and not wondering where this new street was that he'd never heard of before.
I've gotten off the D train at Avenue H, although I more often used Avenue J.
I've never been to H Avenue, nor do I see one on my map.
Your words.
"I've never been to H Avenue, nor do I see one on my map."
Avenue H starts at Ocean Pkwy Around East 6th Street and travels eastward To Glenwood Road and East 58 Street. From Ocean Avenue tomNostrand Ave it is interupted by Brooklyn College.
Why can't you see THAT?
Dude, It was a joke aimed at the reporter using "H Avenue" instead of the proper "Avenue H". Look at any map and you may find Avenue H, but I think you'd have a hard time finding H Avenue. It was just a little fun pointed at the reporter's ignorance to what he was writing about. Many of us have been to Avenue H in Brooklyn, but no one here has ever been to "H Avenue", as there is no such thing. Get the joke now?
Geesh, this thread has more responses about this joke, than about the actual subject matter.
The editor too?
And it's editors? And it's proofreaders? Jest you surely!
He stayed up all night wondering if there was a Dog.
: ) Elias
Peace,
ANDEE
Secondly, I spoke with Ron Schweiger last week and he told me that in lieu of the landmarking a compromise has been reached: The MTA has scaled back their original re-building plans so that ONLY the interior will get a retro-fitting and the exterior will be left as is. Obviously, this is the scenerio that has been in place for years, so to me this doesn't necessarily 'save' the structure in the future. Just keep your fingers crossed that the proposal for Landmarking Fiske Terrace goes through. Only then will the stationhouse truly be saved for generations.
Bill "Newkirk"
Transit and Weather Together tomorrow (Friday) morning from 5-11am on WCBS.
I hope I get that one soon. I did get an inagural M7 ride on the FR in mid May when I took a ride to Rosedale for
www.forgotten-ny.com
Not at all. Given the all-time construction on the 7, they have to shut down a track sometimes, requiring trains to run express towards Manhattan. In any given day during this construction, I've made several observations and figured out that regular express patterns resume at 3 PM.
My correct eBay site address is now: JPSPCC699@AOL.com
(unless it was marked by a tech during workyears)..
Arti
IIRC runs from W 238 to Flatbush.... uhh 8:38 am
There used to be one morning train that ran from 242nd (not 238th, IINM), down the West Side local to Flatbush, and then back up the East Side to E180. I believe it was officially considered a 1 train on its SB run, but it was invariably signed as a 5.
It was eliminated, along with most or all other interlines, on 9/15/02.
I'd say Subway because they have 4 different kinds of bread to have a sandwich on.
My favorite chain is...Quizno's. They are a bit pricey, but you get much tastier stuff. Not dried out cold cuts made in some commissary a coupld thousand miles away like Subway puts out out here.
Forget the chains, most delis will make better sandwiches.
It's kind of funny. I've only been to Subway once and it seems the experience was better. The sandwich tasted fresher and you had free refills. But, that's only personal experience. The Blimpie's and Subway I speak of are located at Queensboro Plaza, right along the viaduct on the south side of the structure.
“Jamborees have been a highly successful way of completing a large amount of work in a short period of time,” said Tom Schmidt, vice president-engineering. “Rather than work in brief windows between train movements, we’re able to have the rail line to ourselves until the work is finished. That makes for a safer work environment and minimizes disruptions for our customers and for the communities through which we operate.”
As a key transportation artery in the Southeast, the line typically handles more than 25 trains per day. CSXT began rerouting train traffic off the line Saturday, and by Wednesday, July 9, train operations will be back to normal.
While some trains will be re-routed, the overall effect is minimized by the traditional miners’ summer vacation in late June and early July, and by extensive coordination with shippers and receivers that included early shipments of coal, merchandise and intermodal freight that preceded the Jamboree. Some coal shipments that must continue will be routed to Corbin, Ky., and down through Atlanta. Others will go via Russell, Ky., to Richmond, Va., and south over CSXT’s I-95 corridor. Norfolk Southern also is helping with some merchandise and intermodal traffic reroutes over its lines between Charlotte, N.C., and Spartanburg, S.C., and Knoxville and Kingsport, Tenn. The railroad also has contacted local officials to help ensure that the public knows the project is under way.
For the 2003 Jamboree, 17 large tie and rail crews will refurbish track segments, including 16 track miles of new rail and the replacement of 172,000 crossties. In addition, crews will repair four bridges and 18 tunnels.
Another focus of the Jamboree will be to make improvements to 153 highway-rail crossings along the line. Maintenance teams expect to keep most crossings out of service for eight to 10 hours. Some private crossings may be closed overnight.
Although revenue train operations will cease between Elkhorn City, Ky., and Laurens, S.C., during the Jamboree, residents throughout the region should remain alert to moving work equipment and trains transporting ballast, the rocky material that supports the rail and ties.
“It is critical for residents to continue to be alert to moving rail traffic, particularly at grade crossings,” Schmidt said. “Motorists and pedestrians should obey crossing gates and signals, and stop, look and listen before crossing onto railroad property.”
CSX Corporation, based in Jacksonville, Fla., owns the largest rail network in the eastern United States. CSXT and its 34,000 employees provide rail transportation services over a 23,000 route-mile network in 23 states, the District of Columbia and two Canadian provinces. CSX Corporation also provides intermodal and global container terminal operations through other subsidiaries.
CSXT’s Track Project – June 30-July 8
By The Numbers
Route miles of CSXT’s system involved: 318
Number of employees working on the project: 1,200+
Number of pieces of equipment: 600
Rail spikes to be used: 2,250,000
Crossties to be replaced: 172,000
Average number of crossties to be replaced per day: 22,000
Rail to be replaced: 16 track miles
Bridges to be rebuilt/repaired: 4
Tunnels to be repaired: 18
Highway-rail grade crossings to be reworked during the eight-day project: 153
Average number of trains ordinarily operating in this corridor over eight days: 200
Technically the lower level is the Culver Line, even though it ain't connected anymore.
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
#3 West End Jeff
Taken from the W line platform at 62nd Street:
Oh, damn almost forgot this: 9th Avenue was the first stop:
Alright, alright I'l stop messin' with yous. Here are some of the good ones:
Not enough? Ya ungrateful punks. Check out the rest here!
Robert
Nah, it was a layup. Its SOP to put a midday layup on C3/4 at 9th Ave.
BTW, didn't you used to be somebody else? (Handle change due to NYCT's unreasonable attitude to employees off-duty activiity and MTA suits who "lurk" here and try to catch you.)
Down here, (Baltimore) we have an operator/dispatcher who runs the local transit fan website, and our MTA suits know him. He doesn't hide. Different attitude, what you do off duty insn't the MTA's business.
Huh? Why would the MTA care? What can they possibly do anyway? When you're off the clock, you're off the clock.
-Robert King
That is an afterthought that was added to the Siemens 2000 cars to allow a barrier between cars when they are MU at a level that would be touched by a blind person's cane so he would not try to board between cars thinking it is an open doorway. I have not inspected them closely, but they appear to be magnets on the ends, and the flexible barriers are held in place by the magnets.
Tom
Not really higher tech, but more effective for their slightly different purpose. In New York, the pantographs were to prevent those who knew what they were doing from trying to enter trains from between cars. No one is going to try that with these cars since there are no end doors and no real way to hold on outside the car, so these are to prevent those who might accidently step there.
Tom
Can you see out of the portals on the east end? Or are they filled in? I've always wondered why (M) trains that are stored down there stop so short - with 1-2 cars still out of the station on the north/west side...and I know the platform is definitely longer than that. How far do the 2 tracks (the ones that end) go?
Anyway, on my last trip I sort of turned the tables on the Crash Cam and took this picture.
The Crash Cam site does not list an e-mail address or I could have sent it in.
Anyway, on my last trip I sort of turned the tables on the Crash Cam and took this picture.
The Crash Cam site does not list an e-mail address or I could have sent it in.
Hi...
That's excellent. I've been looking for a good pic of my building. Thanks so much.
The cam is in the window that's one floor below the flag and one window to the left.
BTW...lots of track and caternary work lately and a bunch of really odd looking equipment to look at.
Thanks again.
At NYCT we make a game of "Leave them behind!"
Just kididng, although I have heard some C/Rs make an attempt to leave as many behind as possible. Crew room chatter though.
People who are in the wrong line of work.
Peace,
ANDEE
I know for a fact that some try to do this as spitefully as possible. The rule during off-hours is that C/R's are supposed to make all connections. Yet I've seen C/R's who will hold the door open with no one else boarding, and a train across the platform pulling in. They'll wait until the trains opens up, and close their own doors in passengers faces. They do it intentionally.
I've seen both varieties on my Midland Mainline (UK) commute - once at Bedford I got left behind by a train that was actually passing the end of the platform when the station clock (which shows seconds) showed its exact intended departure time. A half-hour wait on that occasion. But on another occasion I saw the C/R actually get off the train and go to look up the stairs at Kettering to see if any latecomers were on their way across the footbridge.
And on the flip side, a train that waits a minute won't create any problems on a line with 2-hour headways but will cause a major service breakdown on a line with 2-minute headways.
Technically speaking, expresses aren't supposed to wait for locals, and vice-versa, during rush hour. It's still frustrating when you get the door-closed-in-the-face situation.
One reason could be the increased dwell... sometimes you've made the equivalent of 2 stops at one. And some people stroll along, the C/R can have his/her doors open for a while and still someone will grab the doors that just got off the other train because they were taking their time. Fustrating.
At some stations, like Times Sq where all of the traffic is in the front, think of how fustrating it is for the C/R to get that front section closed to have an express come in, reopen then have to deal with it all again in the front.
And how come I never hear anyone complain about un(in?)courteous passengers? That leads to personnel who are the same.
No wonder everyone treats everyone else like crap.
Conductors, Stations Agents and Train Operators are people too and deserve to be treated with respect, not treated as if they OWE the customer because they're being paid.
One piece of advice a TSS gave me: "Don't put up with crap. The people are paying the TA, not you." Its true.
Mark
What happens if the local waits for a connection with the express? It falls further behind schedule.
Now it's the first train after a long gap in local service. More passengers than usual try to push on. That pushes it further behind schedule.
Eventually the local probably merges with another line. Let's say we're discussing the R -- it merges with the N and W past Queens Plaza. Because of the delays in Queens, the R ends up behind an N it was supposed to be in front of. Now there are two consecutive N's all through Manhattan where N's and R's are supposed to alternate.
Eventually the R makes it to Brooklyn, but very late. It arrives at 36th to greet a crowded platform -- the R is the only local south of that point. But since it's running late, the dispatcher instructs the crew to bypass local stops. Lots of people get off. The platform is more crowded now than it was a minute ago. The next R train has to carry the load that should have been shared by two trains. And this was all so a few people at Continental wouldn't have to wait another three or for minutes for the next local?
That said, there certainly are times when trains should wait for connections -- and when that waiting time should be written into the schedule. For instance, when all trains in one direction run express due to a GO, then they should wait at the crossover points on the return trip. It's easy to rewrite the schedule to accomodate the wait -- whatever time is saved in the express run should be "waited out" on the return trip, not immediately following the express run, as is so often done.
Very good point. Working at 240 tower I found it amazing when looking at a supplement that when the 1 runs express downtown, the uptown 1 local leaves 96th 2 or 3 minutes before than downtown 1 express is due to arrive, leaving passengers to wait 17 minutes (at least) for the next train. Having adjusted the schedule for that rain running express I couldn't see why the uptown couln't have been held 5 minutes later at Chambers St.
Last summer, I was on a midday N train that ran express from 59th to Kings Highway due to a GO. Almost everyone on the train was bound for bypassed stations. At Kings Highway our train met a NB one, and we all ran up and over to try to catch it, but it closed its doors just in time to miss every single one of us. The next NB N was a few minutes late, so, in addition to the extra 12-minute (or so) wait imposed on a few hundred passengers, the next train was overcrowded with two SB trainloads, dragging it further behind schedule and inconveniencing everyone up the rest of the line.
There's an obvious solution. The express run saves, what, 2 minutes or so? Rather than hold SB trains an extra 2 minutes at Kings Highway to get back on schedule, push arrival and departure times at Kings Highway and 86th Street 2 minutes earlier, and hold trains at Kings Highway NB instead.
I don't blame the crew for not wanting to wait for the entire trainload to cross over. The way the system is set up, it's in their interest to get out of there quickly.
(I also think that, on lines with scheduled express service, when all trains run express in one direction, all trains should run local in the other direction, even if that forces a supplement schedule onto expresses that aren't otherwise affected. It seems like this is usually done on the Brighton line, but nowhere else. It was actually done last weekend on the West Side IRT, but thanks to one crew who misread the GO and an automated anouncement system that I've been trained for two years to ignore, I had to make an extra round trip between 96th and 72nd at Sunday evening headways.)
Because the TA cares more about keeping trains on time than serving passengers.
Peace,
ANDEE
Mark
Fytton.
P.S. I may be absent from Subtalk for a while soon, as I am off to work in New Zealand [a country without subways (8-( ] for four months, leaving next Thursday.
Wish me luck! And to everyone on SubTalk (as well as BusTalk):
Have a great Independence Day! Go out and do some foaming, err I meant rail and bus fanning!!!;-)
However, Wellington, where I will be staying, has a funicular - which I mey well use regularly, since my workplace is at the top of it - and some auburban rail services to the interestingly named commuter towns of Upper Hutt and Lower Hutt. Auckland - which I shall probably visit - is said to resemble LA in its low-density sprawl. It has a more extensive suburban rail system but this is said to be rather run-down and not very interesting.
Or a stop in Hong Kong for a day or two either going or returning.
Tom
What's in between? Jabba the Hutt?
The trottoir roulant rapide or TRR (fast rolling pavement) is on trial until October, when the metro's safety committee will decide whether it has been a success - and whether to roll it out elsewhere.
The prototype carries passengers the length of Montparnasse station at 9km/h - three times as fast as normal travelators, and about the average speed of a Paris bus.
It is easy to spot old hands who use the trottoir daily and stride boldly along its length.
But new users also appear every day, and a small proportion promptly fall and hurt themselves.
In some cases the Paris metro has had to pay compensation.
Here's a link to the BBC news story - with an animated guide to how it works.
I think it sounds like quite an exciting ride for commuters.
There is also an interesting, two year old, link to a series of short pieces called "Around the world by subway" which mentions some of the world's subway systems.
Link
Andrew.
"Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. Ne levez pas les pieds. etc..."
One such place that comes to mind is London Bridge (connecting London Bridge station with the City across the Thames).
In New York, with its straight streets, there could be many such places. The distance between two avenues is about right.
In some places high-speed travelators could connect busy subway stops where the transfer is inconveniently long.
As for the Gold Line, isn't there any way they could maybe depress the cross-streets so that cross-streets can travel under the line? That way railroad crossings bells wouldn't be needed.
With the kind of residental densities in South Pasadena, as long as the freeway carry some 75,000 cars daily, it will be justifyable. (Cross Bronx carries some 138,000 cars daily and was built through much much much denser neighbourhoods consisting of streetcar suburbs and 5-storey apartment buildings, with some 5,000 dwelling units displaced). I suspect the actual number of cars carried by the proposed highway would be a lot higher than 75,000.
Why be rational? Much easier just to hold opinions.
AEM7
if
it
makes
sense!!!
I
AGREE!
Yeah, they only complain about noises keeping them awake at night. They don't complain about the important stuff such as the census, R-142's, railfan windows, or getting in trouble for wearing an MTA vest.
Stories in South Jersey (formerly Camden) Courier-Post and Philadelphia Inquirer.
(OT) BTW, years ago, not too long after the Courier-Post moved its operations from Camden to Pennsauken, it ran an editorial complaining about Camden Catholic High School abandoning Camden by moving to Pennsauken (across the street from the C-P) after the Camden school burned down.
Upper Box 623C, Section 11
Praise Fred! He's on the RIGHT side of the fence.
The only team I really dislike is the Atlanta Braves and their low class tomahawk chop!
And their low class ex-pitchers who insult diversity, New York City, and the 7 train.
But only you YAWNKEE fans best know where to STICK that hand, Pig.
Oh, yah... the YAWNKEES do!
Back to the trainz, Billy G....
Its not a rumor its a fact, he really dislikes the Yanks ;-D.
In all fairness, Fred is a good sportsman and he didn't give me a hard time at all. It was a true pleasure to be able to spend some time with "Sea Beach Fred".
Don't miss out on what could be the last chance to get in on the ground floor into two positions that could be phased out real soon.
Err, I took the last O/C C/R test in 1999. Unless my mathematical skills fail me that's only 4 years.
Conductors will be around for quite some time.
Peace,
ANDEE
-Stef
I think I'll take the test again anyway just for drill. Maybe I can beat my previous score. This time I'd be in better financial shape to take a pay cut.
wayne
Check this out:
www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/facts/ffhph32.htm
The book, BTW, is packed with classic BMT photos. If you're a BMT fan or deeply interested in NYC Subway history, you've been missing something.
As for the Gold Line, isn't there any way they could maybe depress the cross-streets so that cross-streets can travel under the line? That way railroad crossings bells wouldn't be needed.
With the kind of residental densities in South Pasadena, as long as the freeway carry some 75,000 cars daily, it will be justifyable. (Cross Bronx carries some 138,000 cars daily and was built through much much much denser neighbourhoods consisting of streetcar suburbs and 5-storey apartment buildings, with some 5,000 dwelling units displaced). I suspect the actual number of cars carried by the proposed highway would be a lot higher than 75,000.
Why be rational? Much easier just to hold opinions.
AEM7
if
it
makes
sense!!!
I
AGREE!
Its a great book. Definitely worth buying.
John
See Post 523175 et sec.
Tom
John
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=1&u=/ap/hot_dog_heresy
I should have read the article first. So, Jtrainloco, you went there in person, or saw it on TV?
SubTalker "ERIC B" ???!?!!?!?!?!?
I once met a TA engineer whose name is Edwin Booker...any relation?
Phil Hom
Chuck Greene
If any of you can figure out how to capture the video, please post!
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Chuck Greene
Anyone know if any cars are being dumped the last week of August?
--Mark
Now we just need to figure out when the reefing will take place, sorry I can't answer that, anyone know?
Oh, and I'm still up for a Sub-surfaceTalk fan trip, just give me like a month's notice to get certified and such, I'd gladly go visit either the redbirds or PATH K-cars on the Artificial reefs down there. It doesn't seem too hard to do a dive trip with one of the operators in Sea Girt or Cape May, even if only a few subtalkers go, the rest of the trip could be filled up with civilian divers who just want to see some stuff lying on the bottom.
--Mark
Unfortunately, you can't download the video just by right clicking and saving it, but at least now you can get to it without digging through CBS's website.
Bill "Newkirk"
HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY!!!!
to you, too.
Larry, RedbirdR33
Red: Shady Grove to Glenmont or Silver Spring, Silver Spring trains began running at 11 AM
Orange: Vienna to Addison Road or New Carrollton
Blue: Rosslyn (upper level) to Huntington
Yellow: Mount Vernon Square to Franconia-Springfield
Green: Branch Avenue to Greenbelt or Fort Totten, Fort Totten trains began running at 4 PM
Car assignments were rather interesting.
Red: Usual mix of Rohrs and Bredas, no CAFS
Orange: Bredas and Rohrs, no CAFS
Blue: All Bredas, mostly 4000s
Yellow: All Rohrs until about 4 PM, then I saw Bredas and CAFs
Green: Mix of Bredas, CAFs, and amazingly, a few Rohrs
All trains had correct signage though some Orange Line trains to Addison Road had the metal plates on that end of the train showing Blue.
I got on the Metro at about 10:45 AM and took the Red Line (Breda 3139) to Gallery Place. On this run, our operator announced transfers to the Blue and Orange lines at Metro Center (see above and you will know why this is a problem). At Gallery, I saw a train of CAF cars going up to Greenbelt. Took Rohr 1200 on the Yellow Line to Pentagon where I was susposed to meet Tristan (BusStalker). I was late but after waiting almost 30 minutes, I left. I did go through the new bus station there for the first time. Despite the no photography signs, people were taking pictures of the Pentagon and even going up to touch the building. The police that were present did nothing.
Back on the Metro, I took Breda 4038 to Huntington on the "Blue" line. I then went back on the third car of that train, 4042, and went to Eisenhower where I got a picture of a Blue line and the Masonic Temple. Then took 3006, the last car of the next train to King where I missed a Yellow line train. The next train indicator (the old one) at King would light up depending on where the train was actually going. So it showed Yellow to Huntington when a Blue came in and Blue to Springfield when a Yellow came in. I took Rohrs 1216 to Van Dorn where I tried getting a picture of the trains from the corner of Eisenhower and Metro Road. I have yet to download the pictures yet so I don't know if it was worth it but I don't think it was. Got back on the Metro and took Rohrs 1265 back to Pentagon City. I should note that on the Blue Line leaving Huntington, an operator said "Welcome aboard the Yellow Line" before correcting himself and a Yellow Line operator did a similar mistake leaving Van Dorn. While on that train, I made an observation to be announced in a later post. At Pentagon City, I got pictures of trains going the other way until Breda 3111 came in on the Blue Line. I took that to Rosslyn, where a Breda train with door trouble was on the lower level. GOt a bus transfer and ran downstairs, through the malfunctioning door which was ultimately cut, but open at that time. I took that train, Breda 3015, out to East Falls Church.
At East Falls Church, I waited for GEORGE. He came late and once he did, he had very little A/C and his Clever Device did not work. Also, the ride was very bumpy. The bus was 3954. I got off at West Falls Church and took the third car of an Orange Line, Rohr 1100, the car without the AC label, to East Falls Church, where I have a video of it leaving (and you can hear the AC motors). I then took the next train that would ultimately go to Addison, Breda 3081, to Rosslyn. I wanted photos of the Addison sign for Orange, so that is why I waited. We had to wait 3-5 minutes to get into Rosslyn since a Blue Line was there. Two more Oranges came before the next Blue.
Blue Line trains had a very quick turnaround at Rosslyn for obvious reasons. They went manually on the northbound trip from Arlington Cemetary. When leaving Rosslyn, they went very slowly, less than 15 MPH, to just past the junction with the Orange Line, then normal speed to the switch at Arlington Cemetary, and then crossed over. Of course, only one Blue Line was between Arlington Cemetary and Rosslyn at any given time. I got off Breda 4038 at Arlington Cemetary, then crossed under and photographed 3006 as it finished its wrong-rail move and crossed over. Got on Breda 4000 and took that to Rosslyn where I waited for the next Orange, 4059. I took 4059 to L'Enfant Plaza. We passed the Smithsonian Station, closed because the exits are within the secure area on the Mall, where all the lights are on. We had a typical Orange Line operator who only mumbled. I think he announced at Federal Triangle we wouldn't stop at Smithsonian, but I am not sure.
At L'Enfant, they now have LED things to indicate if the escalator is to be used or not, as well as raised emergency stops. If the escalator is to be used, an green arrow is shown, and otherwise, a do not enter sign is displayed in red and white. I saw a Rohr going to Branch Avenue on the other side but then a train of CAF cars pulled in. I got on the last one, 5096, the one where I had my Addison Road incident after the WMATA bus rodeo, and this time, the interior LEDs worked! They now use all capital letters when displaying the line color (GREEN). They then only display the next station name (ARCHIVES) once the train starts to move and as you arrive at the station, it goes all blank except for three arrows to indicate which doors will open (<<<). I can't say I am very impressed with these signs. Took that to Gallery Place, then crossed over and got Breda 2015. The operator announced that no one should board 2014, which was locked down when I got off at Archives and empty. Then, at Archives, trains on both lines just kept coming and coming and coming to the point that you could see headlights the moment a train pulled out. This is when I started to see Bredas and CAFs on Yellow and the Rohrs on Green.
After 10 minutes and probably more than 10 trains in both directions combined, I went upstairs to get pictures of the buses with the flags. A number of buses did not have flags and some were on detour. Combined with what I did at Friendship Heights before getting on the subway, I got pictures of Orion Vs, Flxible Metro-Ds, Neoplan artics, and NABI artics with flags on the sides. I eventually got back on the Metro at Metro Center and rode 3164 back home.
I plan on getting maps for myself later this evening when I won't get yelled at for taking them. This year, they do not have a year on them so they could be resued if souvineer hunters like me don't take them. I have the July 4 maps from every year they have done special service plans, beginning in 1999.
Happy 4th of July to everyone, I hope that if I am in town next year on the 4th, some of the other DC or SubTalkers from elsewhere join me!
Since I spend some time on the south end of the L'Enfant Plaza Green/Yellow line platform waiting for my train home from work every day, I've spent a bit of time studying the working of the old next train indicator there. My guess is these are based off of the aspect of the signal coupled with the train approaching platform edge lights. By watching their operation, this seems likely. Since I'm actually on the northbound side, I've spent some time staring across the tracks visually tracing the conduit from the sign, and that makes it seem more likely.
At L'Enfant, they now have LED things to indicate if the escalator is to be used or not, as well as raised emergency stops. If the escalator is to be used, an green arrow is shown, and otherwise, a do not enter sign is displayed in red and white.
I've seen these on other recently-rebuilt escalators in other stations too, although where escapes me just now.
They now use all capital letters when displaying the line color GREEN). They then only display the next station name (ARCHIVES) once the train starts to move and as you arrive at the station, it goes all blank except for three arrows to indicate which doors will open (<<<). I can't say I am very impressed with these signs.
They've been working on and off on some trains on the green line for a few months now (kept meaning to post here, never got around to it). I'm not terribly impressed either, the timing of the various messages is just slightly off. For instance, the station name should continue to be displayed when the door side indication comes up.
Also, just another unrelated tidbit folks might find interesting, the installation of the canopy over the street escalators at the Maryland Ave. entrance at L'Enfant Plaza is coming along. They've had the escalator area fenced off around the sides and back and a temporary construction canopy over the escalators for awhile now, but just yesterday I saw the first metal support beam for the actual canopy had been installed.
I am not so sure you are right about the old destination indicator, I think it might work off the destination code input by the operator or some other part of the wayside signal system becuase I think I have seen the one at Rosslyn start flashing before a line-up was given. Also, at Stadium-Armory during rush hour, there could be one or even two trains between the station and D&G Junction.
Oren,
The signal at the junction interlocking gets its routing information from the destination system onboard the train by way of the train to way side communication system. When the train enters the approach track circuit the interlocking machine checks the route table against the destination code received from the train to way side communication system and sets the switch and signal to desired route. I am not quite sure if the line color sign is triggered by the interlocking machine or by the train entering a track circuit before or after the approach track circuit used to set the switch and signal.
John
Nope, I haven't met anyone from SubTalk in person, I am a pretty infrequent lurker, and an even more infrequent poster.
YES!!!
Today, while riding on the Yellow Line between Van Dorn Street and King Street (Yellow to F/S today, remember?), as we passed the yard, I saw on one of the trains on a siding near the yard, it had AC markings under the car numbers. And these were Breda cars!!! I believe the number was 2042, but I am not sure. I do know the first two numbers were 2 and 0 and the last number was a 2 on one of the cars. I also read that the first 6 cars are back from Alstom but they are having trouble with them, so they are not in service.
But before that, check out the ~350 new photos I've uploaded to my website today. Some you've seen before, but most you haven't. They are located here: Temporary Albums, sorted by Date and will remain there until I finish uploading the other 1000 or so photos I have backed up. Well, then I have to caption them all, and THEN I'll move them to the proper "by car class" or "by location" albums. Enjoy.
Chapter 11 Choo Choo (Lyrics)
www.railfanwindow.com
Also, some of you may think I was standing in an unauthorized area. Well, if I was, I think I would have gotten in trouble, as there were plenty of MTA personnel in the area. That said, I was NOT in an unauthorized area, I assure you. Check it out sometime...in person. And you will see what I mean.
Chapter 11 Choo Choo (Lyrics)
www.railfanwindow.com
I wasn't being critical, just that 1,350 pictures (and I'm assuming they were taken recently) is a lot of pictures.
Until next time...
Anon_e_mouse
Free market solution to the "union."
Yeah, they only complain about noises keeping them awake at night. They don't complain about the important stuff such as the census, R-142's, railfan windows, or getting in trouble for wearing an MTA vest.
If your traveling late at night when the HOB-JSQ is running then simply take that train to Grove Street and transfer to an EXPL train accross the platform.
Larry, RedbirdR33
What they should have on the map is that the HOB-EXPL train and the EXPL-NWK train are actually the HOB-NWK via EXPL. There's no difference in this method of running than the late nite 33-JSQ via HOB running.
Only for five months though…it’ll be the first time in history of PATH that the Newark train did not serve Manhattan. That will be a long five months.
If you do not mind using a bus for part of the journey, you can check out the stations on the SJLRTS under construction, maybe you can catch a car undergoing testing.
I think the original poster meant "safe" in the sense of "low crime."
As long as you don't mingle with the "natives"!
15th and Market, and 30th and Market, are also good with the el and subway surface right next to each other.
Get a daypass so you won't have to keep paying single fares or buy transfers!
Chuck Greene
Chuck Greene
Mark
Chuck Greene
I used to live in Northeast Philly and I rode the 59 every day to get to the Market-Frankford Line. Those creaky old beasts really grew on you after awhile.
Mark
The Ben Franklin Bridge pedestrian walkways are good places to photograph PATCO trains. There's a place where the PATCO tracks cross above the MFL tracks. If you're patient and lucky enough to catch both of them at the same time, you'd have one great shot.
Following Woodland Ave just a bit from the 40th street portal you reach a place when the street enters a six-block-long valley, and looking down Woodland you can often see five trolleys on the 11 and 13 lines.
Also good to ride are the 101 and 102 trolley lines from 69th street.
Mark
PATCO also has a good railfan window.
And I second the motion for the 46th Street portal for a lot of subway-surface action.
The 40th street trolley portal is definitely not to be missed, but just be aware that the route 34 is temporarily bustituted for overhead wire work west of 40th.
Mark
Mark
All of the R5 Malvern/Thorndale
R3 between Swarthmore and Elwyn, particularly the trestles over Crum Creek and Ridley Creek (very long and high)
30th Street Station. You can get a shot of both Amtrak's Race Street Motorcoach Yard and SEPTA's Powelton Avenue Yard, as well as maybe scope a few Metro-North, VRE, MARC, or NJT cars in the Amtrak Yard (NJT aren't as exclusive, as the NJT Atlantic City Line operates off Track 10 at 30th Street, but MARC and VRE never come this far north, nor Metro-North this far south), and of course the rare shot of old-school Amtrak cars next to the new scheme, next to an Acela or two.
Market East. It's just pretty, and you can have lunch in the Gallery Mall if it suits you.
R5 Lansdale Station isn't too bad looking.
There's some nice views of the Schyulkill River along the R6 Norristown line, particularly between Manayunk and Miquon.
R8 Chestnut Hill West has some picturesque stations (Carpenter, C. Hill West, St Martins), and the neighborhood is a photo opportunity itself.
Avoid the following: R6 Cynwyd, either branch of the R2 or R7, and the R8 Fox Chase.
Some points (Philmont, West Trenton) along the R3 West Trenton aren't so bad.
Of course, the R1 is an excellent photo opportunity, as it has the newest construction of the Regional Rail Lines. Eastwick is nice for an all-wood station, and the Airport terminal stations are nicely done. You can also compare old and new construction at Airport Junction (not a station, it's the point at which the R1 Airport breaks away from the Amtrak/R2 Marcus Hook/Wilmington/Newark tracks)
For a snack, the Green Line Cafe at 43rd and Baltimore on the 34 trolley route.
For a quick lunch, Gianfranco's Pizza Rustica at 3rd and Market, one block west of the 2nd Street MFL station.
For a bigger meal, Cafe Vientiane (Laotian food) at 48th and Baltimore, also on the 34.
As for regional lines, I agree the R1 has great views, especially of the John Heinz wildlife refuge. If you want to easily hit two lines, take the R7 to Chestnut Hill East, take a short walk through the pretty Mt. Airy neighborhood to the R8 Chestnut Hill West terminal and take that train back downtown.
Mark
Sean
Temple University
Mark
If you want to add one more layer to it, don't take the R3 all the way into Center City, but get off at the 49th street station, and catch the 13 trolley at 49th and Chester, and ride it downtown.
Mark
Mark
What what what? Screw the Gallery. If you're at Market East, eat at Reading Terminal Market!
Is Dock Street Station brewpub still there?
Mark
Also, SEPTA regional rail trains all have a Railfan View with both R5's, the R8 CHW, R2 wilmington, R3 West Trenton and R7 Trenton provide some great video action. However somee E/R's can be downright malevolent re: looking into the cab.
Thanks,
Flushing7
PATCH goes over a missing eye.
Mark
Example of PATCO railfan window: this photo was taken from the front passenger seat of a PATCO train.
It is still sporting its NYCTA numbers. I wonder what number series it would be renumbered into.
AEM7
Which incident with the R160's?
AEM7
You can find the threads N_Slant-40 posted by using the archives.
Ditto to that. It wasn't "authentic" enough anyway.
Ozzy Zamora AKA The Kiman
MTA NYCT Traffic Checker
Ultimate fan of Miami Dade Transit
And thanks Brian, for posting my photo, I now have my Drexel FTP space working.
I probably took upwards of 60 some photos tonight, most of them didn't come out, maybe a dozen or so are of actually good quality, but the rest are bad, either because of unsteady hands, or just plain stupidity:
Do note: Don't take pictures of moving busses (or for that matter, anything else moving) at night with a relatively low megapixel camera, it won't work. :(
But then again, some worked better than I expected:
But again, it's a bright photo, with the lights reflecting off the marble(?) facade of 30th St Station, so the F-stop did't need to be as high and I didn't have to stand as still.
I also like this one, the largely black, empty Penn dorm with the last bits of skyglow behind it. Also the spot lights that those dorms have, IMHO, look really cool in the humidity.
Leaving the island was slightly hard. The tramway had an extremely long, orderly line. The subway had a relatively small disorganized crowd trying to get through the doors and the 4 turnstiles. Many tourists had minor trouble with the turnstiles, slowing down movement. At one point, police blocked the doors (don't know why).
Because the trickle into the station was slow, the platforms (which aren't that spacious given it's a new station) could handle the crowds, though they were full. The trains could handle the crowds easily. One family with a kid on a giant tricyle stroller didn't make it onto a crowded Queens-bound train, but otherwise everybody got on without making the trains look anywhere near as bad as rush hour.
No doubt the $18 charge was for access to the fireworks viewing area on the south end of Roosevelt Island. Access to the island itself costs just a tram or subway fare (I don't know if pedestrians can use the bridge from Queens).
It's a public park, but it isn't owned by the city, it's owned by the RIOC.
Yes they can. I have.
I thought I saw a video on one of the satellitel TV channels on the Cape Cod Central, and the cars in the video were DEFINITELY ex-LIRR P72's.
John
avid
(I can't remember the "Simpsons" reference to this subject!)
'But, then we're overrun with gorillas!'
'No problem. When it's winter time, the gorillas freeze to death.'
I think that's how it goes, well some of it. :)
Some days you are the statue
and some days you are the pigeon.
: )
I also remember seeing a news report which said that there's a pair in one of the casinos down in AC, as well as a few in Philadelphia.
Eventually the chicken tired itself out and sat quietly, but still the owl never moved. Then evening came, and the chicken too, had to roost, but the only roost there was, was to sit next to the owl. This the chicken did, and the owl never moved.
In the morning, there was no chicken in the cage. The Owl was still roosting about where it was the day before.
Elias
There is a plethora of pigeons all over there as indicated by the feathers and droppings. It's just disgusting. I hope the MTA has a trick or two up their sleeve to take care of this problem.
Mark
Mark
Chapter 11 Choo Choo (Lyrics)
www.railfanwindow.com
Compare:
#3 West End Jeff
We really should have another photo contest. There have been some great photos going around here lately.
dedicated facilities are not fiscally efficient. track sharing is economically efficient. facilities should not be dedicated unless it cannot physically be connected
oh, i don't dispute the facts, although you spin this like you're a CSX shareholder... iirc, the worst ATK wreck in terms of pax deaths was attributed to a CSX bridge (barge strike by non-CSX barge)? aem7
I do not know if they own it or not, but Metrolink seems to have exclusive use of the track in the median of the San Bernardino Freeway and its ROW all the way to San Bernardino. It should be noted that it is a single track from L.A. to El Monte, which makes freight impractical and limits the frequency of reverse moves during peak commuting hours.
Metrolink remains a commuter railroad with most of their trains running inbound to L.A. in the morning and outbound in the afternoon, five days a week, with minimal schedules on Saturday, and none on Sunday and holidays. I have trouble understanding how they can utilize their operating staff efficiently. It looks like they must have a lot of engineers and conductors (and equipment) sitting around idle in L.A. between the morning and afternoon commuting periods. It still has a long way to go before it is in a league with the eastern commuter railroads.
Tom
Metro-North and the LIRR have the same problem too. Their mid-day schedules, while more extensive than Metrolink's, are considerably lighter than those during rush hour, with the result that many staff members and trainsets sit idle for the mid-day period. It's this "peaking" phenomenon that is a large reason why commuter lines cannot make money at the fare box.
Split shifts are common in transportation for some employees, but usually not for the majority of the operating employees. And with Metrolink, the starting point of the trains is 40-60 miles from downtown L.A. Assuming the people drove to their starting point, unless there is a second car kept downtown, there is no practical way to return home between split shifts. Any public transportation would be at least a three hour round trip.
Tom
When the Metrolink shops were built at Taylor Yard in 1991-1992, they actually did build a bunkhouse for crews on splits to rest/sleep in -- but that didn't work out, as whoever designed the place didn't take in account that there would be heavy machinery working on the trains, creating a lot of noise/vibaration. So, the answer was to contract with a hotel in the vicinity of Union Station (close, but not that close -- I know which one it is, but will not divulge it).
As for the equipmetn "sitting around" in LA -- that's basically the only time they have to perform inspections, maintenance, etc. as the trains usually layover at outlying locations at night and weekends. Bombardier has the maintenance contract at the shops, (and recently was awarded another five eyar contract) and I would guess that they are doing a very good job, as I rarely hear of any breakdowns on Metrolink's system.
Mentioning the line down the middle of the I-10 from LA to El Monte -- no, it would not, at this time, be practical to use if for freight service. That is part of Metrolink's San Bernardino line, and it sees, basically, hourly service during the day. It also sees frequent Metrolink service on the weekends, being the only line to run seven days a week. Also, when Metrolink began operations a major flyover was built east of El Monte so the Metrolink trains and then-SP, now-UP freights wouldn't have to mingle, as Metrolink was running in from north of the freight line at Baldwin Park, and heading off southerly just west of the El Monte Station. When the flyover was built, they basically isolated the Metrolink and the SP (UP) lines from each other, though they run parallel. So, nowadays it might be considered impractical even if crossovers were installed.
I was somewhat disappointed when I rode the San Bernardino line from Claremont to LAUS r/t last October. It was a nice ride, for sure, and I really liked the bilevel coaches. What disappointed me was that traffic on I-10 was moving well both times my train passed through that stretch in the median. It would've been much more enjoyable had vehicle traffic been totally clogged as we went zipping along :)
oh i love the detail of the rust and peeling paint on the walls by the way
Basically it comes down to laziness of the rr to support such a feature. MNRR only does with the ACMUs since there's so few trains that have them, and they only run in rush hour in one direction, it takes almost no effort to have the seats all face forward. But SEPTAs older silverliners can be found all day, and would have to be reversed several times, so they probably decided it wasn't worth the trouble.
When I was a kid, I'd flip them all over as I was leaving the train at Penn Station.
But I must tell you, the M1 seats were (when new) more comfortable than the walkovers.
I think there is a safety issue as well, the fixed seats being the safer.
Still, I would rather have a train with the walkovers.
Elias
Chuck Greene
Crescent Street
121st Street
Howard Beach-JFK
36th St, Brooklyn
Queensboro Plaza
Union Square
Atlantic Avenue
Essex Street
Broadway-Lafayette
167th St/Grand Concourse
Dykman Street
Church Ave.
Pacific Street
IRT:
Atlantic Ave
Grand Central
Queensboro Plaza
111th Street
Willets Point
96th Street/Broadway
137th Street/Broadway
Dykman Street
215th Street
138th St/3rd Ave
E180th Street
Gun Hill Road
149th St/Grand Concourse
I'm sure I've missed a few on both lists.
Here are some stations I know exist on the signs which aren't terminals:
BMT/IND:
Crescent Street Broadway-Brooklyn Locals (some)
121st Street
Howard Beach-JFK
36th St, Brooklyn Culver Shuttle before 1959, West End Shuttle
Queensboro Plaza Brighton Local, Fourth Avenue Local before 1949
Union Square
Atlantic Avenue (the one in ENY) Broadway-Brooklyn Local (some)
Essex Street
Broadway-Lafayette F Train
167th St/Grand Concourse
Dykman Street
Church Ave. F Train before 1954, D Train short line until Chrystie
Pacific Street currently, weekend night N; night R
IRT:
Atlantic Ave 4 and 5 services midday
Grand Central TS-GC Shuttle
Queensboro Plaza
111th Street Short-lined 7
Willets Point 7 during special events at Shea, Flushing Meadow
96th Street/Broadway
137th Street/Broadway Broadway Locals before c.1960, alternate Broadway Locals before 9 was instituted
Dykman Street
215th Street
138th St/3rd Ave
E180th Street Dyre Avenue Shuttles, some 2 or 5
Gun Hill Road Third Avenue el
149th St/Grand Concourse
The last Redbird :)
--Mark
IRT (cont'd)
61 St/Woodside
Hunters Point Av
Burnside Av
14 St
Chambers St
IRT:
Atlantic Ave 4 and 5 in the past
Grand Central 42 St Shuttle
Queensboro Plaza 7 during construction
111th Street Morning rush 7
Willets Point PM rush 7
96th Street/Broadway
137th Street/Broadway 1 in the past
Dykman Street
215th Street
138th St/3rd Ave
E180th Street 5 late nite shuttle
Gun Hill Road 8 train
149th St/Grand Concourse 5 during construction
Eastern Parkway
Queens Plaza
111th St (BMT)
Err, I don't think there are anymore Rush hour "N" runs that short turn, since the W supplements weekday Astoria service. And before the bridge swap, I recall seeing trains signed up for service to Whitehall St, not Canal.
IRT:
Atlantic Ave - Use to be the Terminal For the 4 train during non rush hour/night services in the 70's and 80's and used during G.Os
Grand Central - Current Terminal of the Times Square Shuttle
Queensboro Plaza - Can terminate there due to switches and used for G.O's
111th Street- Trains can go there due to Yard Lead tracks and is often used as the last stop on trains who wish to proceed to the yard after 111 Street.
Willets Point - Used by the 7 for Baseball Specials
96th Street/Broadway - Used for G.O's as the Southern Terminal for 1 trains or the northern Terminal for 3 trains (very odd)
137th Street/Broadway - Was once the terminal for some 3 trains and some 1 trains in the 70's and 80's.
Dyckman Street- Due to swtiches North of the Station, the train can be used as a terminal (and has) for G.O's
215th Street - Same reason as Dyckman Street
138th St/3rd Ave- Same as Above
E 180th Street- Due to yard certain trains terminate there and lay up in the yard, and is used by the Dyre Avenue Shuttle as its Southern Terminus.
Gun Hill Road - Original Terminal of hte 3rd Avenue El, and provisional Terminal for G.O's.
149th St/Grand Concourse - Same as Dyckman Street.
BMT/IND:
Crescent Street
121st Street
Howard Beach-JFK
36th St, Brooklyn
Queensboro Plaza
Union Square
Atlantic Avenue
Essex Street
Broadway-Lafayette
167th St/Grand Concourse
Dykman Street
Church Ave.
Pacific Street
IRT:
Atlantic Ave
Grand Central
Queensboro Plaza
111th Street
Willets Point
96th Street/Broadway
137th Street/Broadway
Dykman Street
215th Street
138th St/3rd Ave
E180th Street
Gun Hill Road
149th St/Grand Concourse
Heres all the former terminals which still appear on rollsigns.
E180th Street
Gun Hill Road
111th Street
Grand Central
Pacific Street
Essex Street
121st Street
Howard Beach-JFK
Grand Central is used daily except nights: the 42nd st shuttle.
Pacific is presently used by the N/R late night trains.
It's always a good idea to KEEP these destinations on rollsigns.
Speaking of Weird destinations; I've seen Kew Gardens on a rollsign.
I've seen Grand St station rolls along with North and South Terminal rolls [when a station is not there on a roll].
Also, I recall seeing E trains sporting Canal St on the north roll and Jamaica Center on the south (back during post 9/11 service plan)
Also, I recall seeing E trains sporting Canal St on the north roll and Jamaica Center on the south (back during post 9/11 service plan)
The Canal rolls were also used when the C was out of service back in 2000 for switch replacement [E's terminated there in the late nights].
Nah, the E terminated at Chambers.
B extra rush hour service (all trains went to/from BPB so Concourse local riders didn't have to wait that long.). And they used some R38s on the B line too.
C Not running, entire route (see B and E services)
E extended to Euclid 6AM-11 PM (around the same times the C was running). Late nights, E terminates at Canal St and used center track between Canal and Chambers A/C tracks for layup purposes.
What you're saying is impossible. There's no way that that center track could have been used for layup purposes. Then the "E" train has no where to turn.
I remember the E terminating at Chambers Late nights. That's where it went. Heck, I rode the line everyday of that GO.
Switches over to express track after leaving Canal, then there is a layup track, similar to center track between 21st st and Court Square/IND X-Town line. The train can layup there and come back in on A/C northbound express track at Canal St. There, the train can switch to local track after leaving Canal.
Laying up a train involves leaving it there (or so I think). You're talking about turning the train.
I'm pretty sure that the train went to Chambers and then went back on said track.
The E trains relayed using the center track I mentioned.
Maybe you guys are right. But I coulda swore that it turned at Chambers and not canal.
Maybe you guys are thinking of the WTC re-route. Chambers was closed then, so E trains had to terminate at Canal.
This had nothing to do with the WTC reroute. The General Order I recall DID specify the late night E trains terminate at Canal. If the E train terminated at Chambers St (North Platform), which side would the E come in? Would the very few passengers get confused as to which way the E traveled, if it came in S/B track at Chambers and relayed N/B. There really was no sense to do that. Plus the schedules dictate (IIRC) that despite 20 minute headways, the E train was 2-3 minutes ahead of the A train so it does cause a problem if the E terminated at Chambers. With Canal St as the terminus, E trains can do a quick relay after fumigating the entire train then come back in at N/B Canal St. The S/B A train just sits and waits for a minute or so (all night 8th Ave service is local) for the E train to leave.
Nope. They were P/A (north roll) and Canal Street (south roll).
Jamaica Center
Parsons/Archer
I should've been more specific.
Some (7) trains terminate at Willets Point or 111 during the rush.
Why else did the trains say "Special" in the South Terminal when (7) trains terminated at QBP during the last GO that caused trains to do that?
Thanks to JohnVillanueva.com.
Dyckman, Pacific, E180, and Grand Central are all current terminals at various times of the day or days of the week.
Jim Fish
Albuquerque, NM
VC Madman
Both of them had the 2 yellow cars, and each had an R62 single hitched up behind it. Don't know why though.
Since the B division yards don't have any single unit passenger cars (maybe they do this so the C/A's can have A/c in the summer?), I'm guessing they just hooked up an R32 set.
The second train was definitely the Vaccum train. Boy, does that thing suck!
I've heard from crews that it sucks like a fothermucker.
More non-regular riders. That is, even more people than usual who don't realize how bad it is to discard trash on the tracks.
No cars, pedestrians or cyclists for 11 years. The manhattan bridge has yet to even be completely closed to one mode of transportation. We DON'T have it so bad.
And you say NYC is bad at re-building/building stuff.
I think that some Bi-State Transit (light rail cars) use it now.
When I walked over, traffic was very light. Maybe a dozen cars passed by. East St. Louis, Ill is a rough place. I was a bit anxious walking down the main street there.
Note: The toll booth was on the Illinois side. Do you know why?
Bridge and road tolls are either illegal or unconstituitional in Missouri. Can a New Yorker believe that such a thing exists?
Not true.
It's spelled "Eads" Bridge, the oldest RR bridge west of the Mississippi River. It was completed in 1874.
Yes, and after this platform burned down, the remains of the original northbound track was exposed for the first time.
"Furthermore, what was the photographer doing over there at the time of taking the picture?"
Taking advantage of a nice shot, since the sun was on the correct side.
" And of course the obvious, what in the heck is a QT doing at Franklin Avenue?"
Perhaps these cars came of the (QT) and the signs weren't changed. Looks like a four car train, much less than they usually run on the (QT).
Bill "Newkirk"
Don't know the exact date. Sometime in the 80's.
Bill "Newkirk"
Don't know the exact year. Sometime in the 80's.
Bill "Newkirk"
The picture is definitely an anomoly. There was no Franklin Local service to Coney Island contemporaneous with the R27s.
FRANKLIN (#7, later SS)
06/06/59 Extended Saturday daytime from Prospect Park to Coney Island year-round
01/01/61 Cut back Sunday service to shuttle Franklin Av to Prospect Park, cut back Saturday service from Coney Island to Brighton Beach
02/23/63 Cut back Saturday service to shuttle Franklin Av to Prospect Park
R27's were delivered in 1960 and 1961. It doesn't look like a brand new car. However, exterior finishes deteriorated quite quickly in the pre-carwash days.
HOWEVER ... my memory is fuzzy on this, but I vaguely recall that there was a GO in the early '60s which had WEEKDAY Brighton Locals going to Franklin Avenue either during a service disruption or construction for a short time. This MAY be what we're looking at, but don't quote me.
That doesn't explain the "Coney Island" on the sign, unless it was just a complete mis-signing.
I don't think it was the GO I described in another post because later mainline through-routings on Franklin were almost always six cars.
Hi Chris:
You say that the picture was taken in 1965. Notice the long shadows cast by the light poles on the platforms. This might indicate late summer or autumn. I mention this for the following reason; on Sunday, August 22, 1965 there was a watermain break at Willoughby Street in Brooklyn which caused what I always have referred to as "The Great BMT Flood." Dekalb Avenue was flooded thereby cutting off all service between Manhattan and the Southern Section of the BMT.
On that Sunday the "QB" ran in two sections;
Ditmars Boulevard-Canal Street
Franklin Avenue-Coney Island.
By happy chance I was visting a friend in Brooklyn that day and rode both services and can verify the use of the QB signs.
The next day was Monday and Brighton trains were still running between Franklin Avenue and Coney Island but they were labeled "QT." Naturally I was out on Monday as well, this as being a somewhat younger railfan in the middle of summer this was a great opportunity to see many unusual services. (Great for railfans, lousy for thousands of regular commuters).
By the PM rush the line from Prospect Park to Dekalb Avenue was re-opened via bridge and there were three services running. The Brighton Express between 57 Street and Brighton Beach labelled Q, the Brighton Local via Bridge between Astoria and Coney Island labelled "QB" and a Broadway-Bridge-Brighton-Sea Beach service between 57 Street and 36 Street. I recall seeing both the Q and QB signs so I was riding R-27's at least some of the time. It was a rare chance to see the Q and QB running at the same time.
So it is possible that this picture was taken on Moday, August 22, 1965.
Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33
Makes sense. The photographer may have snapped that pic strictly because an unusual service was running. However, I can't imaging 4 car Brighton locals on a weekday during rush hours.
Supplemental schedule for Saturday service shows this happened April 21, 1962.
Elias
I don't know, but I remember when the '27s were new, and the cat's meow. They really were the finest cars I had ever set my eyes on.
AND I AINT THAT OLD!
At Sutphin the signal would not have cleared past R/W unless the tower had been swung the traffic, but since, aside from that, everything would be okay for the signal to clear on time, the lunar white will come on.
The school bus was just that: a school bus, with the windows completely cut out and holes cut into the top so that there is easy egress and divers don’t get trapped. Not tremendously interesting.
The helicopter is another story. It’s suspended in mid-water on a couple of pontoons, one above the tail and one above the main rotor. You can easily swim inside and around it, though it’s relatively cold underneath: 55°F today at the wheels (50'). It’s also fascinating to look at the Rube Goldberg mechanism that flies a helicopter, where the axis through which the blades rotate can be changed, as can the blade pitch. The main rotors have been removed, but the rest of the mechanism is still there. The tail rotors are in position (you can push on them and swim them round!)
Visibility has improved significantly over the past couple of years, mainly because zebra mussels were imported and have taken over most of the bottom. They provide very efficient water filtration. Visibility was around 50' at the helicopter today. Other parts of Dutch Springs have visibility that varies depending on whether students kick the bottom and stir up silt.
John
John
However, for people who are making their first open water dives, which was the purpose of this weekend’s activity, Dutch Springs is a much safer and controlled environment than the Atlantic Ocean!
Chuck Greene
I've never seen so many empty parking spaces on the Upper West Side -- on a Saturday night, yet.
mr. ants in pants
On the other hand being at home is great, if there's air conditioning.
I have yet to experience my ideal.
I have yet to experience my ideal.
You'll have a long wait to experience the heavy snow with mid-60's temps....
So I've experienced my ideal day often.
As for any day with snow, those are automatically the worst days of the year.
I take that back. I remember riding up to White Plains on the Harlem line when there was a light snow. It was beautiful. And it wasn't bad because the snow melted soon after it stopped falling.
A lot of stations accumulate snow, not just ones that are "open." All you need are those vents in the wall or ceiling that lead up to grates in the sidewalk. Fine snow will work its way down to the platform very easily. Just look at this photo, which shows the lower level of 96 St/CPW during a blizzard:
And here's a similar photo to David's:
Make that 2002.
I'm kind of disappointed about how it came out. Too bad I won't get another shot at that one this winter.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid54/pa3d6f978fd9d6926a2372bec4f2609c3/fc874ac8.jpg.orig.jpg
Sometihng must have happin along the way to make the trip from almost 2 Hours to 5 Hours OUCH!
Added on 07/07/2003
08 4 Av-9 St (F)
02 96 St (1/2/3/9)
01 96 St (B/C)
04 Broadway Junction (JLZ)
01 Rockaway Pkwy
03 East New York Yard
05 Livonia Av
04 New Lots Av
05 R-42
12 R-62A
15 R-143
Total: 60 Photos
Yes, definitly one of the worst transit crimes of the year.